Move It or Lose It | Episode 143 Part 2 | Dennis White - Still Standing: Marine MS Warrior Stories

Summary

Move It or Lose It Podcast | Episode 143 Part 2

Title: Still Standing: Marine MS Warrior Stories with Dennis White
Host: Kathy Chester
Guest: Dennis White
Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring episode, host Kathy Chester welcomes Dennis White, a Marine Corps veteran and multiple sclerosis (MS) warrior, for the second part of his remarkable story. The discussion focuses on Dennis’s persistent fight to access therapeutic devices through the VA, his participation in promising clinical trials (like TMS therapy), and his advocacy for other veterans with MS. Through Dennis's journey, the episode highlights the vital role of movement in managing MS, the bureaucratic hurdles of veteran healthcare, and the power of refusing to give up.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dennis’s Fight for the Mile Cycle FES Bike—Persistence Pays Off

• Dennis describes his battle with the VA to obtain the Mile Cycle, an FES (Functional Electrical Stimulation) bike that dramatically improved his leg strength:
  • Clinical Trial Experience: He participated in TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) therapy at Ohio State and was encouraged to try the Mile Cycle during his six-week clinical trial.
    • “I did seven sessions on the mile cycle, and my leg strength improved by 60%.” – Dennis (01:34)
  • Repeated Appeals & Advocacy: After multiple denials by the VA, he learned the appeals process and involved doctors and his congressperson to finally secure a 12-week trial of the device.
    • “Basically, you have to file if you get anything denied by the VA, you have to file an appeal.” – Dennis (02:40)
    • Third appeal goes to an external board: “Your third appeal goes outside of the VA to a board, and the board looks at it, and they approve it or disapprove it.” (06:02)
    • “I got the mile cycle in April of 2024 and I rode that thing every day...until I no longer needed a cane or a walker.” (06:27)
• Impact: Persistence and documentation (therapist letters, progress tracking) are key when dealing with the VA’s system.

2. Movement as a Lifeline

• Kathy emphasizes that physical activity is essential for MS patients:
  • “Movement is our biggest defense...when we decide, like, we've just quit, we're not going to move, well, that's your death sentence.” – Kathy (06:52)
• Dennis’s commitment to movement, even when faced with setbacks, set him apart and enabled his dramatic improvement.

3. Advice for Navigating the VA and Accessing Care

• Dennis discusses the importance of utilizing patient advocates within the VA and networking with other vets:
  • “At the VA, they have patient advocates...they help veterans fill out the paperwork for that.” (02:46)
  • Enlist support from doctors: “The key is to have your doctor advocating for you...” (31:01)
  • Involve political representatives when needed.
• VA services are not uniform:
  • “Just because one VA does something doesn't mean they all do.” (30:13)

4. Alternative Devices & Strategies for MS Patients

• Cost Barriers: The Mile Cycle is expensive (~$13,000), limiting access for non-vets or those not on disability.
  • For non-veterans, Dennis notes some insurance providers may help, and suggests finding physical therapy centers with similar equipment. (09:02)
• Other Devices: Discusses the H Wave, vibration plates, and the Pulse Device for pain and muscle stimulation.
  • “What I found that helps the most with MS is anything like any kind of stim...is very beneficial.” (12:38)

5. TMS Therapy & Its Benefits

• Explains what TMS is (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation), initially tried for MS at Ohio State during a clinical trial.
  • “What they do is they put this thing on your head and they target...certain parts of your brain, and it kind of wakes up that area...” (22:56)
• Outcomes include reduced mental fatigue and improved daily function:
  • “It completely got rid of my mental fatigue. Like, I Was not mentally exhausted every day.” (24:30)

6. Camaraderie, Community & Mindset

• Dennis's Marine Corps training provided grit and perseverance:
  • “I think a lot of my attitude and everything was instilled in me when I was in the Marine Corps.” (20:09)
• On the importance of mindset:
  • “You have to have the right mindset...I'm just gonna do, I have to make the best of my situation.” (17:45)
• Dennis helps guide other vets online and through support groups, sharing resources and encouragement.

7. Advice to Newly Diagnosed/Discouraged MS Veterans

• Dennis advocates for fighting through the system, seeking community, and exploring new hobbies/adaptations:
  • “It's hard because the way MS affects everybody differently...I just have a mindset where, yeah, it sucks, but...I have to make the best of my situation.” (17:45-18:08)
• Don’t give up, even if denied—keep appealing and seeking support.

8. Building Community & Sharing Knowledge

• Dennis discusses his efforts to create a website/blog (“MyMS Adventure”) to share his MS journey and resources for others.
  • He regularly responds to inquiries from other MS patients seeking advice on the Mile Cycle.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Persistence against denial:
  • “The fact that it worked—I was like, I'm gonna fight to the death for this.” – Dennis (05:22)
• On movement as non-negotiable:
  • “When you decide...we're not going to move...that's your death sentence, really.” – Kathy (06:52)
• On bureaucracy:
  • “[VA official] told me his exact words were, ‘Just because one VA does something doesn't mean they all do.’” – Dennis (30:13)
• On helping others:
  • “I'm always trying to pass on things that I've learned about MS to other people.” – Dennis (20:51)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Clinical Trial Experience & First Use of Mile Cycle: 00:38 – 02:28
• Navigating VA Appeals: 02:55 – 06:27
• Proving Efficacy & No Longer Needing Cane/Walker: 06:35 – 07:56
• Device Cost & Access for Non-Veterans: 08:33 – 09:25
• Broader Applications for Veterans: 09:25 – 12:10
• Alternative Therapies (Stim, Vibration Plates): 12:38 – 13:31
• Advice to Discouraged Patients: 17:21 – 18:57
• Marine Corps Mindset: 20:09 – 20:28
• Advocacy & Community Building: 14:55 – 15:41, 20:45 – 21:22
• TMS Therapy – Description & Benefits: 22:56 – 25:59
• Challenges with VA Inconsistency: 29:47 – 31:22
• Contact & Community Info: 32:55 – 33:36

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How to Connect with Dennis White

• Instagram: @DennisWhite (simply “Dennis White” on all social platforms)
• Website (in progress): Myms Adventure

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

Both Dennis and Kathy are candid, determined, and encouraging, leaning on the spirit of solidarity within the MS and veteran communities. The tone is humorous at times, grounded in real struggles but also hope—and an insistence on finding solutions. The episode is a motivational guide for patients at any stage of their journey, stressing advocacy, movement, and support networks.

Key Message:
Never give up on fighting for the care and resources you need—the process may be arduous, especially for veterans, but documented persistence, community, and movement can be life-changing. And remember, it’s okay to ask for help.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Your host, Kathy Chester, and welcome to the Move it or Lose it podcast, a podcast about all things that move the mind, body, and soul. The Move it or Lose it podcast is for information, awareness, and inspirational purposes only. I am not a doctor, and I don't even Play 1 on TV, so please consult your doctor before making any medical decisions. The views expressed by advertisers, guests, or contributors are their opinions and not necessarily the views of the Move it or Lose it podcast.

[A]

So I kept getting. Getting into it with the head of physical medicine there, and. And so then by chance, I had an opportunity to try the mile cycle.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I did this thing, this clinical trial called TMS therapy. Which is brain stimulation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they wanted to see if it was beneficial for Ms. So while I was there, my doctor that was doing the tms, I asked her about the mile cycle, and she was familiar with it. She's like, oh, yeah. She's like. She's like, you should try it while you're here. And I'm like, what do you mean, where's? She's like, I can set it up at Ohio State. They have a physical therapy department. They can. They have a mile cycle there. You can go try it. So I did seven sessions. I did the TMS therapy for six weeks, and during that six weeks, I did seven sessions on the mile cycle, and my leg strength improved by 60%.

[B]

Wow. That's a really big thing. So, I mean, that's huge. Your leg strength in how many weeks?

[A]

I was. I was in Ohio for six weeks for this clinical trial, and over that six weeks period, I did the mile cycle seven times.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's really, really amazing.

[A]

And it wasn't like I was doing it every day. It was like, I do it one once a week, maybe.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And by the end, my leg strength improved. Improved by 60%.

[B]

That's really good.

[A]

So I had the physical therapist write me a letter basically saying, you know, how. How much I improved. So I had that evidence to provide va. So. And it took me a couple years to get the mile cycle from the va just because. Mostly because if I knew what I know now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And had to do it all over again, it wouldn't take two years because I know the process. Right.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I wasn't.

[B]

So would you be able to help others. Other vets get that?

[A]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, I could. I could guide them and, you know, let them know what they need to do.

[B]

Right, sure.

[A]

But basically, you have to file if you get anything denied by the va. You have to file an appeal.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they have. They have what they call patient advocates at the va, and they can help you. They help veterans. You know, do all fill out the paperwork for that.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So. So I filed my first appeal, and it immediately got denied again.

[B]

Okay, so then that's the second denial. Right. First denial.

[A]

That was the first official appeal denial.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Before they just denied it.

[B]

Denied it. Right. So together, you're on your second denial.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they denied it on my first appeal, they denied it again, and it wasn't really clear on why they were denying it. So I talked to. There was a little change at the VA where they created a new department, and it's called the Spine Pain and Spine Clinic.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they specialize in anything, you know, neurology, you know, all that stuff. So I got a new doctor there, and he was like, I want to advocate for you to get this. Who do I got to talk to? What's. You know, who's. What's. Who's the head of Physical medicine, blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I. I gave him. I gave him all the information that I had, and the woman at the VA would not return his call. So he gets his. He gets the head of neurology involved. She won't return his calls either.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So while I'm in Ohio, she calls me and she's like, yeah, why do you keep requesting this thing? And so I'm telling her.

[B]

Because Ms. Doesn't go away.

[A]

Yeah. I'm, like, telling her I'm in Ohio and I just tried the mile cycle, and my leg strength improved by 60%. So.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, your argument is invalid because.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Everything I'm doing is. Is in a positive direction. So. So they. So I filed another appeal that gets denied again. So at this point, I'm reaching out to my, like, local congressperson.

[B]

Okay. So I like that because I think a lot of people, not just vets, but a lot of people, I think we just give up. It's just that exhausting feeling of, like, forget this is too much, and. Yeah.

[A]

And I would have given up, too, probably, if. If I. If I tried the mile cycle and it didn't do anything.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You would have never heard anything else from me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The fact that it worked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, I'm. I'm gonna fight to the death for this.

[B]

Good for you. Because that's the most frustrating, is when something works and it's like, okay, no worries. Just I'll be fine. Don't. You don't have to, like, help Me with that. But. So you finally. Was it the third appeal?

[A]

Yeah. So what I found out is, is when I talked to my congressperson, I talked to someone on her team. She. They were. They said, you basically have to file. You have to keep filing appeals. So after the second appeal was denied, I was like, well, what am I going to do now? So I called the congressperson again, their office, and they were like, well, you have to file a third appeal.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They said, your third appeal goes outside of the VA to a board, and the board looks at it, and they approve it or disapprove it.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So when I filed my third appeal, it went to this board, and they approved it for 12 weeks.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they said. They said, the VA will give it to you for 12 weeks. If you can show that it works, then it's yours.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So. So I got the. The mile cycle in April of 2024.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I rode that thing every day.

[B]

I was going to say, you just write it constantly.

[A]

Yeah. Until I no longer needed a cane or a walker. I rode that.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Crazy. And it only took maybe six weeks.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And that really is, like, obviously the whole podcast. And what I love is that movement is our biggest defense. And when we decide, like, we've just quit, we're not going to move. Well, that's your death sentence, really. That's when you're atrophy. That's when you're gonna. You are going to be in a wheelchair. And so the fact that you fought that, I think, impressed me so much because people want to give up on those things. And I think the struggle with it is that you kept going because it wasn't the first appeal. Well, first off, without even appeal, you try and they say no. Then you appeal it. No, appeal it again. No. Third time, you appeal it, and then it goes to the board. You have to do it for this many weeks to show that it works. So they obviously then were like, okay, this works.

[A]

Yeah. And then I had to do. I had to do, like, every 30 days, they would have me come in and get evaluated by the physical therapy department at the VA just to make sure that, you know, they could see a change.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. I blew all their tests out of the water every time I went there.

[B]

So did you just go on Marine Corps? Like, I'm not. I'm not losing this. I will. I will win this.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I knew. I knew that once I had it, that I can prove that it worked. So.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

They were all Amazed when I, when I go to the VA now and they're like, see me walking?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, what did you do now?

[B]

Is this something that is for you did you're a vet. Is this something that that other Ms. Patients could get without paying the full price? Because it's, it's, it's quite pricey.

[A]

So it's like, it's like a $13,000.

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, it is a bit of a price, especially when you've got so many of us on disability, things like that. So what are some of the things that you would advise people who don't, who couldn't afford that, but who really need that because they're in that place where they know they're losing strength in their legs. They know they're losing stuff and they're like, I'm working and working. I don't want to go into a chair right now.

[A]

Yeah, there's, there's. It's hard to say if you're not a veteran. I mean, I can tell you all kinds of different resources for veterans, but I do know that Mylan works with your insurance, so. Okay, they, they might, you might be able to get right. Something out. Yeah.

[B]

So what about, like, as far as vets go, this is really important because there are so many vets that have multiple sclerosis or different, you know, obviously brain injuries. Obviously, we're not the only autoimmune disease. We've got rheumatoid and lupus and Crohn's and all of all sorts of fun things. So how many do you think, how many vets do you think know that they can fight for some of these things? Introducing the Pulse Device. Cutting edge wearable device. Revolutionary wellness. Designed to stimulate circulation, reduce harsh pain and tightness, and speed up recovery, the Pulse Device uses advanced vibro tactile technology trusted by patients, clinicians and wellness professionals. Whether you're recovering from an injury, battling a neuro condition, or just want to feel the best every day, Pulse helps you rechange, recharge so that you can live and feel better. Lightweight, powerful and easy to use. Experience better performance, better recovery, and a better you. Order now and save $30 using my code Mississippi Disrupted@pulse device.com the Pulse device. Is your health recharged? You won't be disappointed. Get it now for yourself. I have it. I love it. Go ahead and grab it.

[A]

I don't think a lot of them do.

[B]

Yeah, because I don't hear that.

[A]

I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I'm on these. These calls at the VA where they do, like, a information session kind of thing. And I was on one time, and there was a couple people with Ms. And they were in wheelchairs. And I. I told the lady about the mile cycle and that, you know, I told. I was like, don't tell them I told you. But. But you should request this device.

[B]

Don't mean with that lady. She doesn't like me. But you're able to at least give them. Help them with some of the information, like, this is how you do it. And yes, this helps. Don't. Don't give up.

[A]

And I think part of the problem is the Detroit va. Yeah. They're not familiar with. With fes, but I went to the Cleveland VA one time a couple years ago, and they have a whole department dedicated to FES bikes, and no one there could understand why I was being denied it.

[B]

Okay. Right.

[A]

And they're even. They were even. They even have a research department that. Where they're creating their own FES bike that you can ride outside. Wow. So you put the electrodes on and. Yeah, like, outside.

[B]

Get some vitamin D. Yeah.

[A]

So I found that. That if it's an inexpensive thing, the VA is really loose about. Yeah, yeah, we'll send you that. Because I've got. I mean, I've got tons of devices that they've sent me that. That help. I mean, I have. There's a device called H Wave, which is for pain and some other things that, you know, it's. It's. It's the same lines as the myocyte. Like, it has these electrodes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's what I found that helps the most with Ms. Is anything that, like any kind of stem.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is very beneficial, I think.

[B]

Yeah. With ms, I know that you got the pulse device, which, you know, that I. I love. I. I feel that that helps so much with spasticity. And. And also I was just doing the heavy workout and used it, and it helped a great deal. Just strengthening that, you know, that vibration and just strengthening my legs and my other parts of my body that just feel weak or are spastic. So you were already kind of ahead of that before. Pulse device. Before you had that. You were already understanding that, okay, there's something with this vibration thing, and there's something that helps stimulate them that I can use. Parts of my body I wasn't able to use.

[A]

Yeah. Even a vibe, like getting a vibration plate and just stand on it. It can strengthen your legs. Just the vibration helps.

[B]

That is a really big one. And I've seen that, and I, I don't have one yet, and I should get one because I know that they are. We've learned so much about feet and how important that is and being barefoot. And, you know, there are so many feet issues that we have with our different autoimmune diseases that we don't quite understand yet. So I think that that is. Is a really important thing too, are the different plates. And, and again, there are things, you know, when you get that that's not a super expensive thing, but it's always kind of that wondering, okay, I've seen this on Instagram, you know, 40 times. Does this really work? And so I think making sure that, can I get my money back if this doesn't work? Can I, you know, can I afford to do this right now? And, and looking at, obviously, the reviews, being able to talk to people that, if you're in a support group or something like that, talking to them and saying, like, I use this, this works, and getting some of that now, would you ever, like, go to talk to. Do you ever get an opportunity to talk at the VA about, like, your ms? Have you ever been able to do that?

[A]

No. And you know what? I haven't really met a lot of veterans at the VA that have ms, at least not that I'm aware of. I mean, yeah, they don't go around saying, hey, I have ms, but they

[B]

don't wear a big shirt that says, Right.

[A]

Well, what was funny, when I, When I was researching the mile cycle, I was trying to find a veteran that had one because they were like, oh, we have, you know, veterans all over the country that use us. Like, I couldn't find. Anyway, and then I found this guy on a video on YouTube who was riding a mile cycle, and it said on in the description, said he was a veteran. So I, I took that video and I started researching that video and I found. I got his name from the video. And then I found out the guy runs some business in California. So I, I called his company and talked to him and he's like, oh, yeah. He's like, it took me a while, but he's like, just keep, just keep, keep pressing them and they'll get. You'll get it eventually.

[B]

So good to know for the vets that are. And that's like, just really big on my heart that, like, you know, you fought for us, you fought for our country, and you come back and you've got this, you've got this thing that you've got to live with for the rest of your life and you have to fight so hard to get it. And so that would be what I would love to do is just to get that out there that, you know, have, have va, have the VA look at this more, but also have some veterans be able to. To see this and know that you can do this. You just have to put more work into it. You do. You will have to appeal. And, and I know that people are going to want to get in touch with you after just to see like, how did you do it and how'd you begin? Because it's, it's nerve wracking to do that, especially for our people that have like cognitive issues and also for those that are alone and think that's, that's a scary thing too. And, and your support is really your, your parents and your brother and stuff like that. You, you've got that support system, which is great and I think that's super helpful also. So what would you say if you, if you had someone in front of you right now that was of that and with Ms. Or with something like that and could not use their legs? What would you, what would advice would you give to them and just really felt like, I, I want to give up. I. I'm exhausted, nothing's working. I just want to put the towel in and say, forget it, I can't do this anymore. What would your advice be to them?

[A]

Yeah, it's, it's hard because the way Ms. Affects everybody differently. You know, I come across people that, it's like they just lost all hope and they, you know, they're like, I don't want to hear what's worked for you because, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Your symptoms aren't like mine. It's not going to help me, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think, Excuse me.

[B]

I think back in Michigan, are you excited to get all the colds and stuff from the.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's great. But I think it's. You have to have the right mindset. Like I just have a mindset where, you know. Yeah, it sucks, but you know, I'm just gonna do. I have to make the best of my situation, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like before, before I got the mile cycle, I was like, had this thing, you know, I just bought a house. So I was moving into the house and I was like, okay, I want to make this room my room, my bedroom, like a place that I don't ever have to leave.

[B]

Yeah, I remember you because I didn'. Like, oh, that's so sad. But yeah, you are right in saying that.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, I just, I. My mind is. I don't have a lot of lesions on my brain. I only have like, maybe one. So my. My mind's still good. And so I was. I was trying to adapt things, you know, like I used to play hockey, I used to snow, and I can't do that. So I was looking, I was trying to create other things that I could keep my mind sharp and entertained and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, come up with new hobbies and stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I.

[B]

Which is so smart. And without you even realizing how many people I talked to with Ms. That try to go back into what they did before. So if they played football or they played basketball, they'll try to go back and doing that. And I remember trying without my vision, trying to play baseball because I love sports and I didn't even see the ball go by. So it is. It is. And that was very smart of you to do because we have to figure out, okay, what's next. I'm not giving up, but I've got to find things that. That work for me and for you. You didn't even think you were going to be able to walk. So if I'm going to stay in this room, that is now going to be my everything. Where I do all my work, where I do my workout, where I do my. My tv, my Netflix, you know, time, whatever I do is going to be in this space. But in. Yet I think that's, That's. That's very difficult to plan for something that sounds like worst case scenario and then keep your hope up as well that this won't be forever because I'm going to fight this thing. So that's kind of tricky. So is that your Marine Corps brain or are you just like that in general?

[A]

It's probably a Marine Corps thing, but I mean, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of my, my attitude and everything is from. Was instilled in me when I was in the Marine Corps. And I just carry that with me.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

But. But I remember Myelin has reached out to me and they've had me talk to people that are considering the mile cycle. And then I do, you know, I do a group ride with them. Other people get on and everybody talks about.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's one that I'm always trying to pass on. Yeah. I'm always trying to pass on things that I've learned.

[B]

Right.

[A]

About Ms. To other. To other people. And some people get offended. You know, some people. I remember this was. There's this lady on YouTube or Facebook who. She talks very intelligently about MS, and people ask her questions. She gives really good answers and explains it. It's almost like she was a doctor or something. But she was. Yeah, but. But I. I remember I commented on. I'm like, hey, you should try. You know, have you ever tried this? Or this? You know, that's really worked for me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And then, like, her next video was like, people need to stop telling me what they've tried, and have I tried this? Or I need to do this, I need to do that. I was like, well, I'm not telling you need to do it. I'm just offering my experience, you know?

[B]

Right. And for what they said. And it does. It is tricky because a lot of people who even Ms. Depression is part of ms, and when you feel, you know, depressed, sometimes we lash out. And not realizing, like, that was completely uncalled for and. But good for you that you at least gave that open to her. Like, hey, this is something that. That I've used. And I know. I get that all the time from what I'm teaching. Like, well, yeah, it's easy for you. You teach. You don't have. Do you even have ms? I for sure do, but it is, I think from the very beginning, exercise, it was just that thing. It connected with me, and I never stopped. So I would say that. That you've been doing the mile cycle now for. How many years have you been using it?

[A]

Since April of 2024.

[B]

Okay. So definitely something that. That you would recommend. And hopefully other people would have a different experience, but with the va. But. So this is something in. One thing I wanted to ask you too, before I go into the last direction, is help people who don't know what TMS is. What is that? Is it just for veterans? What is it for?

[A]

No. TMS is transcranial Magnetic stimulation. So what they do is they put this thing on your head and they target. They know what certain parts of your brain do, so they target those areas, and it kind of wakes up that area and helps it function better.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So the mile cycle and tms, both those things changed my life so much because before. Before TMS, when I was doing the TMS, I didn't have the mile cycle yet. So before TMS, I work. I work 7am to 3:30pm and by the time I would get off, I would just go to bed and watch TV because I would be so fatigued and exhausted. And then I started doing that tms and it completely got rid of my mental fatigue. Like, I Was not mentally exhausted every day.

[B]

Now, was that covered as well?

[A]

So that was a clinical trial, and it was open to veterans and first responders.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And I just got an Ms. Specialist at the va. They just got one, but I do see one outside of the va, and when I learned, when I saw something about, I was watching a veteran video, and they were saying how they were treating veterans with PTSD with. With tms. So I called my doctor outside of the va, and I was like, you ever heard of this TMS therapy? And he's like, yeah, he's like, I got a clinical trial going on right now for Ms. He's like, if you want in it, let me know. I'll get you in it. So he got me in it, and I had to go to Ohio for six weeks. But because I work remote, I can work from anywhere, so.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I just took my computer down there, and I'd come home on the weekends, but I'd spend the weeks down there. And I was doing daily tms. And it was kind of a nice program because as part of the tms, you get. They assign you a physical therapist.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so that I had a physical therapist that I was. I'd go to TMS in the morning, and then after work, I would go meet the physical therapist at a local gym, and he'd work me out in the pool and, you know, do stuff in the pool. And I think a combination of all that.

[B]

Sure. I mean, the pool is great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To have it as well, but just

[A]

the fact that I don't have the fatigue, the mental fatigue was just, you know, a game changer for me.

[B]

So is it helped also? Does it help with, like, anxiety, that kind of stuff as well?

[A]

Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably, because I know they do. They do use TMS for anxiety and depression. So it's FDA approved for, I think, ptsd, anxiety, depression, and I think migraine headaches.

[B]

Okay, interesting. So another thing that I, I, I assume that a lot of people don't know, so those are two big things that I wanted to highlight with you, is that, you know, there, there are things that we hear about that are just like. That doesn't really seem like it's going to do anything, but I definitely want people to look more into TMS and look into the mile cycle. There's always things that we can do and ask for help. I mean, that's why we're doing the podcast is so that you can ask for help. And if there's confusion, like, I'm not really sure how to get started, call Dennis. You can message him and, and get in touch and see, you know, how it's worked for him and for other Marines that are other. Other vets that have done this. My father, I have to say, is. Was in the army, not the Marine Corps. And so I think that because we have so many vets that are in need of things that are alone. My father was in Vietnam. And we all know that depression with, with our Vietnam vets is. Is crazy and very high. And so I think that we just need to get the word out more. And I love having, with my podcast, having things and like that we can talk about that isn't just for, you know, our neighbor next door that has never served, but people that you'll touch that I can't touch. But I can at least have a platform for us to talk about why are vets not getting what they need. And so I want to dig into that more with you next. Um, but this one I really wanted to focus on when you were diagnosed and how you've kind of fought with them and, you know, really worked with them to get. To get this and to kind of get the needs that you have. And not to mention, you are a single father with a daughter. That's got to be exciting. So to understand all this, all the drama. But I mean, that's. That's a lot too, for you to be able to do that. I mean, Lord knows you need a lot of help. So that's. Those are some really big things and important things. And so for today, that's what I really wanted, like our listeners to hear is just how there are things out. We just. What's new. We have to advocate for everything. So we have to do a little bit more work. But don't always think it's on your own, because sometimes that's too much for us and it's okay to ask for help. And that's why, you know, we're doing this today. So I can just say, dennis, thank you so much for. And I know we're going to do more. And I wanted to just really thank you for, for making this situation and just even kind of sparking the conversation so that we can understand the things that are, are for us and are for our vets that they just don't know about. And I think there's a lot of information that, that we need to help out with this and if we use this platform, great. But that's. That don't know they can get some of these things. And so thank you Yeah, I think

[A]

there is a lot. There's lots of veterans that, especially the older veterans, they seem to, like, not want to deal with the VA as much.

[B]

I think they have for so long.

[A]

This is where all your help can get comfortable, like, push them to do it.

[B]

And I think that's a big part because you aren't one of the old guys and you are able to say, wait, like, don't give up yet. We. We did something big, and let's. Let's get what. What's given to us. Like, we deserve to have this. And so I think that's important, with your knowledge, to be able to say to some of the vets that are, like, older, some of them that are just too depressed and, you know, for you to say, yeah, me too. You know, I was really depressed to get this stupid disease, and. But I chose to not give up.

[A]

And I had the. This guy at the va, he told me he's the head of. The head of prosthetics.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

A lot of times whenever you try to get a device, sometimes you got to go to physical therapy and then they send you prosthetics. And so I was asking him, I'm like, why is this being denied this? This is a device that's being given to other veterans all over the country.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he told me his exact words were, just because one VA does something doesn't mean they all do.

[B]

That's what I was going to ask as well. Is that not. Obviously, because we've talked about the Detroit va. They're all not the same. But you can't switch. You can't go to Virginia VA if you're in Detroit. So that. That's a tricky thing. If you are in a. In a state where. Or in an area where you're. The VA isn't the best and you're going there, then I would think I'd want to give up and say, forget it. I don't have a great place to go. So you would just say, keep. Keep pushing, keep the appealing. Because regardless, after that third appeal, it goes elsewhere. It goes to a board, not just to the va. That may not be the best one.

[A]

Yeah. The key is to have your doctor advocating for you. Because my original doctor, when I told him about the mile cycle, he was like, oh, yeah, it sounds like a good thing. You know, I'll put in the request for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it wasn't until I had all these other people advocating there, too, that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That I think it made some progress. So.

[B]

And again, just advocating. Advocating they either agreed with me or

[A]

they were just so sick of me. They're like, just give it to him already.

[B]

Give them the dang thing. We don't want to hear this guy anymore. But it's. It's so awesome that you have it and that. And it's such a good testimonial, too, because when we feel. So many of us feel like it's not. I can't. They're just not going to work anymore. You were able to prove that wrong and say, no, I'm not giving up. And it's working very well for you and I think for so many others it will. So thank you for being on today. I won't let you get away with that being on again. But thank you for doing this today and just again, truly thank you for your service. And I love getting more knowledge out and awareness, not just about multiple sclerosis, but about the things that we're able to use that will help us. And so thank you for presenting that to us tonight and giving us an idea of some of the things that we can use that will help us and ways that are not easy, but that we can get it. We just can't give up.

[A]

Yeah. Thanks for. Thanks for having me. I love talking about Ms. Stuff, so.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, who doesn't love ms? No, but really, thank you so much and. And I'm looking forward to our next one. I've already got one set that I want to do with you, so I look forward to it. And at the end of this, you guys will have all of your information. What is if they want to get a hold of you? What's your Instagram?

[A]

My Instagram is just Dennis White.

[B]

Okay. And anything. Are you on any other Tick Tock or anything like that?

[A]

Yeah, I'm pretty much Dennis White on everything, I think.

[B]

Okay. Very creative.

[A]

I do have. I'm working on a website called Myms Adventure.

[B]

Okay. We didn't say that you had all this time to tell us about your adventure and. Well, we didn't hear about that.

[A]

It's a work in progress at all.

[B]

What adventures are you going to be doing? Rock climbing?

[A]

No, it's just I wanted to build, like a community and. Yeah, and just like a blog that, you know, I could post my experiences.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I do post. I used to post some things on, like, I've posted things on Facebook and I've had. I had a lady reach out to me who she's like, tell me more about the mile cycle.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

so I. I told her about it. And then she. She found a place. I think she lives in North Carolina, and she found a place in North Carolina that has one. And that's why I tell people, if you can't afford it, find a physical therapy place that has one. And that could be hard because when I was trying to, there was no place in Michigan that had a mile spike. And then when I went to Ohio, I'm like, they're like, oh, there's one at Ohio State.

[B]

I was like, yeah, yeah. Do we have one now here?

[A]

I don't think so. The other device I tried was a newbie newfound.

[B]

Yeah, so those are. Yeah, those are amazing.

[A]

So when I was looking into that, there's only one lady in all of Michigan that has one.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, well, they're expensive as I'll get out. So.

[A]

Yeah. And she's like 45 minutes away. But I went there and did it and. And I was impressed with the device.

[B]

I think it worked. It just.

[A]

It was just kind of expensive. Like I think $120 a visit or something. I wanted to go like every other day or.

[B]

Right, right. That is. You're right. But it is a very cool thing. And if you can go to a place that has those things, awesome. But I know a lot of states do, but we. I have not found one in Michigan, but yeah, that's. That's really cool. Well, again, thank you for this. Thank you for being with us on Move it or Lose it and truly doing what it is about. What the podcast is, is really moving our bodies. And then we used to be able to but ways that really strengthen our. Our bodies so that we can fight back this disease. And. And so my favorite is disrupt the hell out of Ms. So I like that and thank you for being on and we will see you guys next week and hope you enjoyed this. Don't forget to give feedback and please subscribe. Make sure that you do that helps us so that we're able to have sponsors and things like that. So give us my. I want your feedback and I'd love for you to subscribe. So thank you so much and I hope you guys have a great night. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Move it or Lose it podcast. It would mean the world to me if you subscribed and left a review. Remember, you can find me on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, and YouTube. New episodes of the Move it or Lose it podcast air every other Wednesday. If you have any suggestions for future guests or topics, please visit my website at www.ms.disrupted.com until next time, Flex.