A Case of the Mondays (OOTP Chapter 12, Professor Umbridge)

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Podcast Episode: A Case of the Mondays (OOTP Chapter 12, Professor Umbridge) Release Date: January 21, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Podcast, hosts Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Laura delve into Chapter 12 of Order of the Phoenix titled "Professor Umbridge." The discussion navigates through the complexities of house unity at Hogwarts, character developments, teaching methodologies, and the overarching influence of Dolores Umbridge on the school environment.

---

Main Discussion Points

1. House Unity at Hogwarts

The hosts commence by addressing the ongoing struggle for house unity within Hogwarts. Eric highlights the divided sentiments caused by the selection of both Cedric Diggory and Harry Potter as champions, which has sown discord among the student body.

Eric [08:15]: "It's a real shame to see not only Gryffindor house divided, but none of the houses seem at all close to where they could be."

Laura concurs, emphasizing that most students only know the legends surrounding Harry's confrontations with Voldemort, lacking firsthand experience or understanding.

Laura [10:45]: "This feels like a precursor to Hermione taking the initiative to form the DA because a lot of the school is feeling kind of in the dark."

Andrew adds that the teachers, especially Bullies like Snape and Umbridge, hinder attempts at fostering unity.

Andrew [11:09]: "You're not going to get school unity when you have teachers like that who are bullying the kids."

2. Character Development: Ron Weasley

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Ron Weasley's regression in personal responsibility. Eric criticizes Ron's dependence on Hermione for academic assistance, portraying it as a lack of growth.

Eric [24:14]: "It shows the lack of growth, the complete vacuum where Ron would have, I would hope by 15, you would have gained a general sense of personal responsibility."

Laura provides a nuanced perspective, suggesting that Ron's behavior stems from his upbringing as one of seven siblings and his limited opportunities to develop responsibility.

Laura [25:30]: "He's probably been overwhelmed and hasn't been placed in positions where he had to be responsible before."

3. Teaching Methodologies: Professor Binns and Snape

The hosts critique the teaching styles of Professors Binns and Snape. Professor Binns is condemned for his monotonous delivery, detracting from the value of History of Magic classes.

Micah [33:19]: "Professor Binns's teaching method is not engaging, making History of Magic one of the least favored classes."

Snape's ineffectiveness as a teacher is also scrutinized, especially his treatment of Harry and his inability to improve his students' performance.

Eric [36:50]: "Questioning whether Harry can read in front of the class, it's easily disproven. It's just mean with no academic purpose."

4. Umbridge’s Influence and Teaching Methods

Dolores Umbridge's tenure as the Defense Against the Dark Arts (DADA) teacher is a focal point. The hosts discuss her manipulative and oppressive teaching style, which exacerbates the existing tensions within Hogwarts.

Andrew [49:21]: "The Ministry guarantees you're not in any danger... But Hogwarts has proven otherwise."

Laura points out Umbridge's strategic use of dull and meaningless lectures to lull students into complacency.

Laura [46:55]: "Umbridge is banking on the students being tired and bored, not paying attention."

5. Hermione’s Strategic Role

Hermione Granger emerges as a pivotal character who subtly challenges Umbridge's authority. Her measured questioning during Umbridge's lessons lays the groundwork for Harry's eventual outbursts and the formation of the DA.

Eric [42:49]: "Hermione quietly questions Umbridge's goals, setting up Harry's eventual outburst."

Micah adds that Hermione's actions provide a platform for other students to see Harry in a more favorable light.

Micah [45:50]: "Hermione is goading Umbridge, allowing Umbridge to reveal more about herself, galvanizing students against her."

6. Harry’s Detention and Peer Relationships

Harry Potter's detention serves as a catalyst for his growing responsibilities and the strain on his friendships. The hosts discuss how Hermione's and Ron's behaviors affect Harry's standing among his peers.

Laura [29:34]: "Harry's friends are really not helping him out here, with Neville and Ron's actions."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Eric on House Division:

   "It's a real shame to see not only Gryffindor house divided, but none of the houses seem at all close to where they could be."
   [08:15]

2. Laura on the DA Formation:

   "This feels like a precursor to Hermione taking the initiative to form the DA because a lot of the school is feeling kind of in the dark."
   [10:45]

3. Andrew on Teacher Influence:

   "You're not going to get school unity when you have teachers like that who are bullying the kids."
   [11:09]

4. Eric on Ron's Lack of Growth:

   "It shows the lack of growth, the complete vacuum where Ron would have, I would hope by 15, you would have gained a general sense of personal responsibility."
   [24:14]

5. Laura on Ron's Upbringing:

   "He's probably been overwhelmed and hasn't been placed in positions where he had to be responsible before."
   [25:30]

6. Eric on Snape's Conduct:

   "Questioning whether Harry can read in front of the class, it's easily disproven. It's just mean with no academic purpose."
   [36:50]

7. Andrew on Umbridge's Guarantees:

   "The Ministry guarantees you're not in any danger... But Hogwarts has proven otherwise."
   [49:21]

8. Laura on Umbridge's Lectures:

   "Umbridge is banking on the students being tired and bored, not paying attention."
   [46:55]

9. Eric on Hermione's Strategy:

   "Hermione quietly questions Umbridge's goals, setting up Harry's eventual outburst."
   [42:49]

10. Micah on Hermione's Influence:

    "Hermione is goading Umbridge, allowing Umbridge to reveal more about herself, galvanizing students against her."
    [45:50]

---

Insights and Conclusions

The episode emphasizes the multifaceted challenges faced by Hogwarts in Chapter 12 of Order of the Phoenix. The interplay between oppressive teaching methods, declining student responsibilities, and the strategic maneuvers of Hermione Granger highlight a school in turmoil. The hosts commend Hermione's nuanced approach to subverting Umbridge's authority, which inadvertently paves the way for Harry's leadership and the eventual formation of the DA.

Furthermore, the discussion underscores the necessity for genuine unity and responsible mentorship within educational institutions. The criticisms of Professors Binns and Snape serve as a critique of uninspired teaching methods and favoritism, which contribute to the fragmented environment at Hogwarts.

---

Listener Interaction: Links Line

In a special segment, listeners shared their peculiar and vivid dreams, which tied into the chapter's theme of Divination and dream analysis introduced by Professor Trelawney. Highlights include:

• Rachel dreamt of being a math teacher amidst a language barrier-induced disaster.
• Carly had a bizarre dream of eating a violin, reflecting her personal anxieties.
• Sherry described recurring stress-induced dreams connecting to her real-life battles.
• Ashley shared a fantastical mix of Harry Potter and The Hunger Games elements.
• Autumn recounted nightmares about giant pigs planning to cook her in cauldrons.

These anecdotes provided a personal touch, linking the listeners' experiences with the magical themes of the chapter.

---

Conclusion

This episode of MuggleCast offers an in-depth analysis of Chapter 12, "Professor Umbridge," highlighting the strain on house unity, the evolving responsibilities of key characters, and the detrimental impact of ineffective teaching. Through thoughtful discussions and listener engagement, the hosts provide a comprehensive understanding of the chapter's nuances, setting the stage for future developments within the Order of the Phoenix series.

---

Notable Mention:
The hosts encourage listeners to support the podcast through Patreon and merchandise, ensuring the continuation of their insightful discussions on the Wizarding World.

Transcript

[Eric]

The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist whether you're running, swimming or sleeping. And it's the fastest charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations. IPhone XS are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

[Laura]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions.

[Eric]

So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel.

[Laura]

From time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.

[Andrew]

Welcome to Michael Cast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And crack open a bag of your favorite biscuits and pull up a comfy chair and a cup of tea because this week we're discussing chapter of Order of the Phoenix. Professor. Um, Bitch. Bridge.

[Laura]

Sorry.

[Andrew]

Um, Bridge. Apologies.

[Eric]

Sorry. Andrew. I know you took a few weeks at. You're out off your little.

[Andrew]

You're off my roker. Yeah, off my roker.

[Micah]

We do not say those words on the show.

[Andrew]

Okay? I credit where credit's due. I've heard Kira Lewis on Instagram refer to her as, um, bitch quite a bit.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Andrew]

If it's a word in the Harry Potter books, we can say it on the show.

[Eric]

That's my rule. That's your go to rule? Every time for that word.

[Andrew]

Well, before we get into this week's chapter, since we are fluing into a new decade for the show, we could really use your support while we go chapter by chapter through the books and as we cover any and all news concerning the Harry Potter TV show. It does start filming this summer. I got a text from my sister, by the way, this morning. She said, how's the Harry Potter TV show? I said, girl, it's filming this summer. We still got some time to go, but check in in a couple years.

[Micah]

Oh man, you should have told her it's great. Go to hbo, Max.

[Eric]

Oh man.

[Micah]

And she'll just keep sending you texts, Andrew. What do you mean I can't find it? I keep searching for it.

[Eric]

Yeah, tell her you've seen the whole first season but you're sworn to secrecy.

[Laura]

I like how we're Encouraging Andrew to bully his sister.

[Andrew]

What have we behind? No lie. Well, word is getting around about the TV show. That. That was my big takeaway. Yes, yes. Doesn't ask me how the show is. Our show just asks how the Harry Potter TV show is.

[Micah]

Does she ask how you are?

[Andrew]

Sometimes.

[Eric]

But anyway, I do love those random. No, I get texts from my sister too. They're always like tangentially or something. She saw something about Harry Potter, wants to ask about it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Okay.

[Eric]

I am also. Well, thank you.

[Andrew]

My sister did tell me after she asked me this that she is going to start reading book one to her class. She's a fifth grade teacher later this year. Isn't that sweet?

[Laura]

That's so sweet.

[Andrew]

And that's how I was introduced to Harry Potter. So it's kind of like a full circle moment. My fourth grade teacher.

[Eric]

Yeah, Andrew, you should guest read. You should show up to read like a special chapter.

[Andrew]

I love that idea. Yeah.

[Laura]

And the kids are going to be like, who are you?

[Eric]

No, I bet one of the fifth graders are going to be like Andrew Sims from Mugglecast. I've wanted to meet you my whole life.

[Andrew]

I was going to say I'll promote the pod right there and these kids will be like a, what's a podcast? And B, why are you promoting?

[Laura]

Yeah, I don't want to get your sister in trouble either. Because we say the B word on this show sometimes.

[Eric]

It's true. Now we can't do that.

[Micah]

I can see some full circle moments coming for Andrew with his nephews when the TV show comes out. Like, I want to see pictures of you sitting there watching it with them.

[Andrew]

That would be sweet. Yeah. Well, anyway, like I was saying, the Harry Potter TV show does start filming this summer. There's going to be lots to talk about as casting continues. So stay tuned everybody. Make sure you're subscribed to Mugglecast anywhere you listen or watch. And like I said, we could really use your Support. So visit patreon.com mugglecast to support us financially and you'll enjoy instant access to lots of great benefits. One of those benefits is twice monthly bonus buckle cast installments where we have fun talking about different aspects of the Harry Potter fandom outside of chapter by chapter and this week by popular demand, we're bringing this theme back. Would you date a witch or wizard Part two? Who are we, us four on the panel going to invite out on a date in the wizarding world?

[Eric]

I can't wait, Andrew, for you to reveal that you have very low self esteem Again. And that you're looking forward to a relationship being all one sided and that you don't have a high degree of confidence that it'll work out.

[Andrew]

I just found somebody I can date in the wizarding world who I think has similarly low levels of confidence. Who would be. Who would want to date a Muggle like me?

[Eric]

I love that you kept yourself a Muggle in this scenario. I think I did the bonus wrong. Okay.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Micah]

Well, we're late bloomer Eric. You'll be able to.

[Laura]

Oh yeah. Kind of like Hogwarts Legacy where you miraculously a fifth year. It's just showing up.

[Andrew]

I liked that. I thought that was cool.

[Laura]

Oh yeah, for sure.

[Andrew]

Well, anyway, now it's time to dive into chapter by chapter. And this week we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, chapter 12. Professor Umbridge. Eric, take us back in time first.

[Eric]

Okay. We last discussed this chapter in the first week of January of 2020 on mugglecast448 titled have a biscuit. Gee, I wonder why. And here is an audio clip where we'll play two clips. Because this was actually. This was an episode of many firsts. Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck.

[Andrew]

What the episode 448. We like learning.

[Laura]

It's not as bad as reading this chapter and for the first time, like from an American perspective, be like, why does McGonagall have biscuits in her office?

[Eric]

She. Was she just at kfc? Was she just. Was she just at Bojangles? Was she just at Popeyes? Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

[Andrew]

Oh my God. Yeah. Embarrassingly like even reading this today, I'm not thinking about cookies. I'm thinking about like KFC biscuits.

[Eric]

Southern style.

[Andrew]

Give some specific details. They deserve that because one of their fellow students died. And one way to cope with this is to know the truth so they can begin to move on. Because then all these students are probably wondering like, well, what did happen? And can that happen to me here at Hogwarts? Yeah, this place. That is a security nightmare. Starting to sound like a security nightmare. Security nightmare. That is the new clip created by our listener, Linden. Thank you, Linden, for that little sound effect thing.

[Laura]

I like that mysterious thing.

[Eric]

Time.

[Andrew]

So that's a big episode. That was the debut of the security nightmare clip. It sounded like, wow.

[Eric]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Micah]

So what clip is debuting on this episode?

[Andrew]

I don't know. Oh, nothing.

[Laura]

It's a lot of pressure.

[Eric]

Pass it forward. I have to come up with a sound effect by the end of the episode.

[Andrew]

Micah can come up with an umbitch Sound effect for us.

[Micah]

Oh, yeah, Umbitch.

[Andrew]

There you go. That works.

[Eric]

Sure, yeah. So let's crack into it, ladies and gents, and first we want to talk about the worst Monday Ron has ever seen. According to him, there really are a lot of. There's a lot going on. Harry's not happy. We know this is kind of a downer chapter and his anger, which has always been closer than usual to boiling over since book started, is going to be let loose in to some extent. But let's talk about some other things I've identified as missed opportunities. Number one in house unity kind of gets a shout out again. We talked about how the Sorting Hat song last week really encouraged group think and, and coming together, but it seems like, especially with the stuff that happened with Seamus at the end of the chapter and now Lavender is on it too. Herm, he says, where she doesn't really believe Harry. Like, I just feel like it would have been a shame going back to the graveyard, you know, that comes up in this chapter and all because of this. Hogwarts was supposed to be unified with one champion, but because of Cedric Diggory and Harry both being chosen, they were hugely divided. And now that this thing has come up with Voldemort in the mix and the Ministry's saying Harry's a liar, anyone that wasn't already super pro Harry is now taking that as a pass to be awful to Harry to his face. And so it's real shame to see not only is, you know, Gryffindor house divided, but none of the houses seem at all close to where they could be where the Sorting Hat wants them to be, where Hermione could want them to be. How do we fix this?

[Laura]

Oh, I think it's tough because, you know, Harry's in his fifth year at Hogwarts and the vast majority of the student body has really only ever heard, I mean, legends of what he's done and what he's been up to. So nobody's really gotten to sit in the passenger seat with Harry anytime he's gone up against Voldemort or to know the real reason why Sirius Black is now running free except Dumbledore. That's basically it. So I think this is actually the preface in a lot of ways. One, to addressing the Unity issue, to your point, Eric. But two, giving people that in to feel like they have, they're kind of in the know and that's why the DA is needed here. This very much feels like a precursor moment to Hermione taking the initiative to form the DA because I think a lot of the school is feeling kind of in the dark and they've only had the Daily Prophet and you know, the ministry perspective to kind of fill in the gaps for them because no one else is doing it.

[Eric]

I think you're talking about too like the benefit of having a single enemy, a common enemy.

[Andrew]

The unity has to start from the top. And you have teachers at Hogwarts, namely Snape and now Umbridge, who are just total bullies to the students. And you're not going to get school unity when you have teachers like that there who are bullying the kids because it just encourages the other kids to bully them as well.

[Eric]

That's a great point.

[Micah]

And inner house unity seems like something that would happen over time that, you know, especially in the younger years it makes sense that you would spend time with your housemates. But as you grow older and you meet other students from other houses, friendships develop. We start to see that a little bit clearly. Ginny has formed a friendship with Luna in at some point prior to this point. So the big question for me though, and I think, Andrew, you're getting at this too. Is the school even set up for this? You think about the house cup, you think about the Quidditch cup. There's no Hogwarts Quidditch team. There's Quidditch teams for each individual house. There's the sorting, which is the very starting point for dividing up these students so that for the next seven years they know that they are going to be pitted against these other students in order to win the house cup. So.

[Eric]

Well, it's okay because the sorting hat regrets its job to divide people.

[Laura]

Yeah. And it starts before they even get to Hogwarts. Think about when Harry encounters Draco at Madame Malkins in book one and Draco says something to him like, oh, if I got sorted into Hufflepuff, I'd leave. Wouldn't you?

[Eric]

Wouldn't you?

[Laura]

You know, and it probably starts in.

[Andrew]

The family home as well. If your parents were Gryffindors, Hufflepuffs, whatever, you're going to want your kid to get in that house too and you're going to be rooting for them and cheering them on to do well in that house and get house points.

[Eric]

Yeah. I think. Isn't Neville stressed that he's not going to be sorted at all, he's going to be kicked out. Oh, like I agree with that. So much of there's that pride that comes from being all in Gryffindor as a family or all in Slytherin as a family. And on the other hand, I think the upside to being sorted is that it does give you a built in home. It gives you a built in community that is much more your speed. I think to your point of like it being easier when you're younger to keep a smaller group, but as you get older there should be these opportunities. And I love the idea, Andrew, that it's like structural. It pretty much starts with the teachers like pushing unity on people and then also. Yeah, it really does. So I think this is a great question as well.

[Micah]

They have loyalty to their houses as well. It's not just the kids, it's in many cases presumably the, the teachers who are at the heads of each of these houses were in these houses. So of course there's a huge loyalty factor there as well.

[Laura]

I think there is value, especially at this age of inspiring like a team mentality, like getting people to collaborate and learn how to work on a team and sort of learn how to form that microcosm of a community. Kind of like when you do go to college and it's, it's kind of like if you're doing sort of like the living on the college campus type experience, it's kind of like adulting with training wheels in a way. I feel like that's what the intent behind this is. But unfortunately humans very easily devolve into sports team mentalities where it's like my team is better and more superior to everyone else's team and therefore we can do whatever we want or therefore we're the best Quidditch players or we are the bravest or the most pure of blood or whatever. So that's the problem here is that people, they take it too far. I think, you know, there comes a point where it's like, yeah, you won the House cup last year. Good for you.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Why, why do we have.

[Eric]

Did you like that Hogwarts house before they won the House Cup? Otherwise. Yeah, we're going to talk about Ron later.

[Laura]

Right?

[Micah]

The. Yeah, no, but the, the point though, about that you brought up Laura about the da, I think is a good one because it's the first time we really do see the houses come together in any way. There's no official programming otherwise that I can think of at Hogwarts that does that. Why?

[Eric]

And it's almost as a side effect. It's not like the stated goal of the DA is to unite people in friendship, it's to train them up. Because the services at Hogwarts are so deficient.

[Andrew]

Well and to answer your question, Michael, why now? Why is there this inter house unity now? I guess you could argue it's this. Sure the trio are fifth years now, but it is this relatively fresh blood entering the school and having new perspectives and new ideas, whereas the people who run the school have been there in eternity and they don't even think about making any changes.

[Eric]

Yeah, it really has to come from, I think, a need people have to want to organize. And that's where having a common enemy such as the titular character comes into play. Let's talk about play now and how Fred and George are playing with all of these students in Gryffindor. I'm pretty sure that at the end of the last book when Harry gave his gold to Fred and George with the lofty hope that they'd start their joke shop, he was not expecting those very same Galleons to be offered to students in exchange for their well being and health and safety. Because Fred and George have a notice up saying gold in your pocket. Let us use you as our test subjects for this thing. And you know, we have Ron's reaction, Hermione's encouraging him to do something about it. They're prefects, et cetera, et cetera. Ron is shy, doesn't want to do it. But there's not a moment from Harry where like Harry seems uncomfortable, but it's not like he's actually going to say, hey, when I gave you these galleons, I didn't want you to actually do this with them.

[Laura]

Well, is it possible that they didn't actually use the funding that Harry gave them, but they actually use some of the revenue they've generated? Because we know that they already had a mail order service, so they've already been making some sales, they've already been profiting. So was it their seed money that Harry gave them or was it the profits they've started making?

[Eric]

Okay, you provided reasonable doubt. I no longer am weirded out by this. But it's, it's wrong ultimately what they're doing.

[Laura]

Yeah, for sure.

[Eric]

What 15 year old doesn't want extra pocket change? And where are the safety guardrails? You know, Fred and George, you trust them kind of as long as you're in their house, but like not to, not to let you die.

[Andrew]

And to build on Laura's point, maybe they are already doing well with the business because they bought Ron a new pair of dress ropes. Right? He says in the chapter, so maybe they got some extra money to spare. I can't see them taking Harry's money And then just passing it along to Ron. That seemed extremely generous of them. Unless they were generating a lot of money. Maybe they. They thought, hey, let's help out Harry. Harry's besties. Harry helped us.

[Micah]

I thought that was a stipulation of them getting the money.

[Laura]

Yeah, that's what Harry helped them.

[Andrew]

Oh, really? Oh, okay. I forgot.

[Micah]

Getting Ron new dress robes.

[Eric]

Oh, I see, I see, I see. So they, they begrudgingly went, you know, and did that, I guess.

[Micah]

Well, speaking of begrudgingly, I do think if Harry said something to them, they would begrudgingly listen to him. He's their sugar daddy, after all.

[Andrew]

And.

[Eric]

And the sugar is going to dry up if you displease him.

[Micah]

And I do think Harry, deep down, probably feels a sense of responsibility for what Fred and George are doing in this particular moment. Sure, he might not be directly responsible for the testing being done, but he is responsible for the money that was given to Fred and George which now has led to the testing being done. And so there's probably a part of him that does feel a level of responsibility. The other thing I wanted to bring up here, and we see this as a theme throughout this chapter, it is really a strong commentary on how standardized testing and certain grades, or in our case, maybe majoring in a certain field don't necessarily determine your career path. We see that develop with Fred and George throughout the course of this book. They talk about their talents being useful elsewhere. And Fred and George aren't the only example of this that come up in this particular chapter.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's a fair point.

[Andrew]

And I think this is also set up for a later chapter in this book, Careers Advice. And some moments in these books just stick with you over time. And I still remember reading the careers advice chapter in which Harry starts talking with McGonagall about his future. And I was like, wow, these kids are growing up. They are. This is really entering into adult territory now. And the other thing I wanted to bring up here was that I just wish Harry brought up to Ron and Hermione the gift to Fred and George. It's his money. He can do what he wants with it. And Ron and Hermione, dare I say, might even like to hear this. So to Micah's point, they know that Harry has some sway over Fred and George. And Harry. Harry could kind of be like the prefect he maybe wanted to be after all, he gets to reprimand Fred.

[Eric]

Oh, they could. They can deputize Harry to go right. And tell them to and rein them in.

[Andrew]

And then Ron's like, oh God, I don't have to do it.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, Ron would, would not have a heart attack anymore. I feel like it would only make Harry look good if he were honest about it until Hermione and Ron, like, Hermione might scare off at the legality or whatever, probably for good reason. But, you know, just knowing that Fred and George are on the loose, we don't know how they got any money, we don't know how we're going to reign them in is a worse position to be in overall. And honestly, Harry could do with people seeing him do nice things or even his friends because he's kind of been a terror to his friends and continues to be.

[Laura]

Yeah, but I mean, the whole school basically hates him right now and I feel like the last thing he wants to do is be branded a narc, which is basically what would happen.

[Eric]

And that's like death.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, like, I, I don't, I don't think that Harry, like, maybe he doesn't approve of these methods for sure that Fred and George are going about it, but I don't think, I don't think he's losing any sleep over it. I don't think he thinks about it a lot. He's got other stuff on his mind, like Voldemort's mind. Literally, he's got Voldemort's mind on his mind.

[Eric]

I love that way of putting it.

[Andrew]

I do Wonder though, if McGonagall slash Dumbledore appointing Ron as a prefect was a way to help develop Ron as an adult, force him to grow up a little bit.

[Eric]

Yeah. If it is, he's not taking the bait like Ron all but throws in the towel in this chapter about being responsible for Fred and George, about doing anything on his own for classes. You know, we're going to talk about it, but it's just crazy.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, yeah, let's talk about it. But first we're going to take a quick break and then we will pick up that discussion.

[Laura]

We're so done with New Year, new you.

[Andrew]

This year it's more you on Bumble.

[Laura]

More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially.

[Andrew]

That one filled with show tunes.

[Laura]

More of you finding Geminis because you.

[Andrew]

Know you always like them.

[Eric]

More of you dating with intention because you know what you want. And you know what?

[Andrew]

We love that for you, someone else.

[Laura]

Will too be more you this year.

[Andrew]

And find them on Bumble.

[Eric]

So, yes, another missed opportunity is Ron having any semblance of being. Of wanting to do his own work for for his own merit. He flat out tells Hermione in this chapter that she will be responsible for his and Harry's bad grade if she doesn't give them her notes. Because Ron is feeling overwhelmed and he doesn't like the caseload Fred and George have laid it on thick about, you know, every day will be this awful with homework. He believes them. And I don't know, I just, I think that's such bull to say that to Hermione. And it's, it shows the lack of growth, the complete and utter vacuum where Ron would have, I think I would hope by 15 you would have gained not only passions and subjects that you like enough to do the homework on your own without complaint, but just a general sense of personal responsibility. That would mean that you wouldn't always be relying on somebody like Hermione to GPT it for you.

[Laura]

Yeah, I think though, I think Hermione has kind of made Ron comfortable in this way over the last few years and that's not her fault. It. I am by in no way saying that it's her fault. It's just the dynamic that evolves between people all the time. Especially if you have one friend who is really academically inclined and one who isn't. I, I think it's happened to most of us at some point. Um, but I think Ron is like, he's kind of conditioned himself to assume that that's just something he gets because he's friends with Hermione. And I don't know if Ron being the, you know, one of the younger of seven siblings, I don't know that he maybe has the same like, level of preparedness in terms of his maturity. Like I don't think that he's ever been put in a position before now where he was actually responsible for something and he's probably really overwhelmed. Like how, how would Ron know how to be responsible for something? I don't think. And it's not his fault. I just don't think he ever has been.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's kind of a fair point. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's a good call out because I think about, let's say somebody starts taking up a chore in the house, somebody else besides yourself or somebody starts doing something for you here in the real world and then if they stop doing it, you, you get so used to that person taking care of something, it's like, oh no, I have to do it. I don't want to do that. So that makes a lot of sense. I thought maybe it was just some early onset senioritis For Ron.

[Laura]

Oh, probably that too Well I read.

[Eric]

This chapter and I go are you kidding me Ron? You don't want to do any work but the.

[Micah]

But she been enabled well right and.

[Eric]

Coddled even by magic alone Like I.

[Micah]

I didn't mind too the fact that she has shown up to do this for him the last four years. She is partly responsible for this.

[Eric]

Yeah, I, I do agree that you know in this chapter where she says what would it be like if I stopped doing your homework? What if I. What if I just stopped doing it is kind of too little too late Right on that of as it's not a serious I guess threat and so Ron doesn't treat it as such But I do agree he's been coddled pretty much his whole life. I mean even now they aren't doing their own laundry the house elves are cleaning up after them like there's so many things. Yeah, all right, not cooking, not having. There's so many elements of personal responsibility that aren't getting done that for Ron to just throw in the towel. Well that also shows to throw in the towel on academics. What else is he going to do? Just live at Hogwarts just like eat and breathe and that's going to be all he puts effort into? It's pretty wild.

[Micah]

He's a prefect now. It doesn't matter. Do what he wants.

[Eric]

Yeah, great pick for prefect.

[Andrew]

He's got a chip on his shoulder like he does. He's kind of on top now at least within the house.

[Eric]

When Dumbledore made him prefect it should have been like listen Mr. Weasley, I have full faith in you to actually do something and Ron would want to please Dumbledore all year.

[Micah]

I don't know.

[Eric]

It'd be useful and stand up to.

[Andrew]

Your brothers, damn it. Come on.

[Eric]

Their brothers are going too far. So speaking of Ron, let's just get this out of the way he completely bombs Harry's would be interaction with Cho. This is the second time in as many days that Cho Chang has tried to get Harry. You know, in a conversation the first time he was covered in stink SAP in the, in the carriage. The second time he's thrilled to not be that But Ron just like comes straight after Cho and starts demanding from her proof of her loyalty to the Tornadoes Quidditch team. And it's so. I didn't say it's out of character but it's so forceful that it not only catches Cho off guard, catches Harry off guard, but it puts a bad taste in Cho's mouth and she Leaves. And it's not really serving anyone here to be this way. It just serves as, like, another way for Harry to kind of be disappointed in his friends. Yeah.

[Micah]

Can I say, though, I did think for a very brief second that Ron was going to show some maturity here. He looked like he was coming in as a really great wingman, and then everything completely fell out from underneath him. I do think he was trying to normalize the conversation to diffuse the tension between Harry and Show by asking about something they all liked in Quidditch. But then it became antagonistic and Ron was shouting and. Yeah, not good.

[Laura]

Yeah, I. I just think Ron's gatekeeping here for a couple of reasons. Like, one, he's gatekeeping Quidditch, but he's also gatekeeping Harry. Like, he. Cho. He may not even think this intentionally or consciously, but Cho is competition.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Laura]

I mean, Harry's gonna be spending a lot of time with her soon, and I have to imagine that makes Ron a little jelly.

[Micah]

Well, and let's not forget, Joe didn't treat Harry the. Well, she didn't treat him poorly, but she rejected him in the last book. So maybe part of that's in Ron's mind, too.

[Laura]

Yeah, he's like, oh, she said no to my bestie, and she claims she's a Tornadoes fan. I don't think so.

[Eric]

Yeah, I'm gonna come at her about Quidditch right now. It's certainly all possible.

[Andrew]

I think I'll take that as an excuse, because reading this, I was just so embarrassed for Ron, just the way he was behaving so aggressively towards Cho.

[Laura]

Well, it's also a thing with. I'm not gonna say. I'm not gonna paint with a broad brush here, but it can be a thing, like, a gender dynamic in, like, the realm of sports fans, where, like, there. There are men, sometimes men and boys, who will challenge women and girls who say that they're really into a certain sport or they follow a certain team and immediately launch into, like, quizzing them about every piece of trivia they can think of to be able to disprove. Like, you're not as big of a fan as I am.

[Andrew]

That makes sense. Yeah.

[Laura]

Sports are not the only place where that kind of gatekeeping happens. It happens in fandom. We've all seen it.

[Eric]

Oh, you like this band named five of their songs.

[Micah]

Maybe there's some jealousy there, too, because we know how great of a Quidditch player show is, and Ron himself is still trying to make it onto the Quidditch team.

[Eric]

Here's the Thing you just don't think of all the ways in which Ron fawned over Victor at first, before he was a romantic threat. Cho is an upperclassman. If she's good at Quidditch, why can't Ron think, like, oh, I have to learn something from her. I have to. Why doesn't he look at her reverently at all? And it might be for some of these other reasons, like, you know, like Laura suggested. Maybe he's threatened. Maybe he knows that she rejected Harry. Whatever, whatever. But she's also an upperclassman. I had to look this up to be sure. And, yeah, she's a year older than them. And I don't know, I just. Given that Ron doesn't talk to girls, especially girls he doesn't know, this all seemed very surprising, to say the least. And it's disappointing for Harry, who was looking forward to, I think, just something positive to happen to him because he's.

[Micah]

Having a bad day.

[Laura]

Yeah, I know. His. His friends are really not helping him out here. Neville with the stink SAP and then Ron with this. And it is a red flag, especially when. When you're that age, if you're talking to a boy that you like and his best friend comes up and his best friend is a huge jerk, immediate red flag where it's like, oh, maybe this guy isn't as cool or nice as I thought he was if he's friends with that, you know?

[Micah]

Yep.

[Eric]

So we also talked a little bit at the beginning of this chapter about getting some teachers that would help with inner house unity. We also could do with some teachers who, I don't know, engage in a positive way with their students at all. We are put through double History of Magic divination lessons. All of the bad potions, all of the bad classes happen on this first day back. And there's even a point where it says in the book in History of Magic that it could have been a good lesson in another teacher's hands. And I think who teaches a subject has, you know, the interest in the subject has everything to do with the content as well as who's teaching it, and it's just not it. Bins is not it. And Snape, this reminds me of the.

[Micah]

Lynx line from last week.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I was thinking of that, too.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yep.

[Laura]

Yeah, there was a lot of hate for History of Magic in particular, but.

[Andrew]

Also somebody came to the defense of History of Magic and admitted they were a history nerd and said there was a way to more dynamically present this information, I think.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well, they Came to the end.

[Eric]

Then we took them out back and we dunked them in the pool until the. They stopped saying that.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, history is cool.

[Laura]

It is. No, they came to the. To the defense of the concept of a history class, but Professor Binns's teaching method, not so much. And I think that's what's at issue here.

[Eric]

I mean, can you imagine maybe like a. I wanted to say like a film professor or something doing giant wars or like a theater professor doing giant Wars? Like, come on. Remember those classes that weren't theater classes, but we ultimately read like a short play about something or had to reenact scenes. Just different dynamic ways of exploring a subject matter would be really cool. Even just as simple as get up class. Half of you are Switzerland, half of you are Romania. You know, like.

[Andrew]

Well, getting the kids literally moving physically is probably important too, to prevent them from falling asleep. In fact, I remember one of my history teachers in high school used to say, you kids have tired blood, you got to move around more. You have tired blood. That's why I run three miles every morning or something like that. That always stuck with me.

[Eric]

And because Vince doesn't have to worry about that. He doesn't need to get his heart rate up there existing.

[Micah]

This is the wizarding world, though the, the person, I forget who it was last week who said, bring in some ghosts who actually participated in some of these history events. That would be so cool.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah. I. I would go so far as to say I think History of Magic could be the best class at Hogwarts for those. For those types of reasons, possibly. I mean, it's what those who are doomed to repeat history don't study. It is like, honestly, that that alone should cause people to be interested in finding new ways to teach history so that it's sinks in any way going further about the classes. It looks like when we finally see Professor Umbridge and her class. And I just don't think that this is going to be an improvement over the previous years of Defense against the Dark Arts Teachers. Teachers. Which, you know, I think really Lupin was the best one.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. And to touch on Snape real quick too, he says to Harry that he can't read, which I think is a really. You know, here he goes again being a. You know what. But it's interesting, an interesting comment to make ahead of Half Blood Prince when Harry is relying on Snape's Potions book. Is that a bit of a foreshadow alert?

[Eric]

I love the idea of that.

[Micah]

I'll explain it quite well actually. It's just such an inappropriate moment on Snape's part. And you wonder how closely was Snape actually watching Harry throughout this entire class? Because to know that he missed something on the third line, I mean that could just be his proficiency at Potions.

[Eric]

But it's just, it's the third line has two parts to it. But Snape didn't do 3A and 3B the way that you should.

[Andrew]

And you feel bad for Harry because Harry, when Snape asks him about it, immediately realizes his mistake. And I believe he says his heart sank. And I think we've all been there in school. Maybe we had really a really difficult time with a test or we get the grades back and they aren't what we expected. We have those heart sinking moments in school and here's Snape putting him on blast in front of his fellow students and it sucks. It's mean.

[Micah]

And I do like the point you raised about the Half Blood Prince's book because if you actually have a good teacher you can get students to have good results. And certainly some students need a little bit more attention than others. But this makes me actually question how good Snape is. We know he's good at Potions but in terms of him effectively teaching his students, I don't think he's very good.

[Eric]

Well, not only that, but we, we have always heard that Snape favors Slytherin house. So you would expect everyone in Slytherin by now to have been given that personal one on one time that he so withholds from the other students. But no. Goyle and Crabbe have just as bad potions, if not worse than anyone else.

[Micah]

Wouldn't you want to invest in your own students, in your own house to ensure that they are good at least at the subject that you're responsible for teaching.

[Eric]

Exactly. It's not enough to single out Harry and say look how bad this potion is. There should be a Slytherin wall of students that continuously get the best potions and at least then it would show that he's teaching anyone this yeah stuff.

[Micah]

It's not Neville's stupid. Seamus is stupid. Crab is stupid. Goyle's stupid. Harry's stupid. It's like no, it's never teachers. You suck at teaching well.

[Eric]

And questioning whether Harry can read in front of the class, it's easily disproven. Of course he can read. You know, you have to read in all the other classes but it's just mean. There's, there's no reason for it. There's no academic purpose that this could possibly serve.

[Micah]

I'm sorry, Andrew. I'm sure he's a great lover.

[Andrew]

That's. That's a tease for bonus vocal cast today.

[Eric]

Oh my God, you didn't.

[Andrew]

But Arianne Beth, who's listening live on our Patreon Patreon right now, says Snape's bad teaching methods transfer from Potions to Occlumency. He makes all the same mistakes in both classes. If this had been addressed sooner, those lessons might have been more successful.

[Laura]

Good call.

[Andrew]

Wow. Yeah, he's not a good teacher, but a great lover.

[Micah]

Now can I ask a quick question though, about the Dada professors? Eric, I know you said you feel like Lupin is at the head of the list up until this point. How would we rank our Dada professors thus far? I. I have Lupin, I do agree, but then I would say imposter, Moody, Quirrel, and then Lockhart. I think Lockhart is just bottom of the barrel.

[Eric]

Well, I think you have to rank them. There's only one way to rank them truly, which is how much damage they did. And you know, that puts Moody into contention for me because he did actively use unforgivable curses on them for months actually. And that has to have. They have to be worn down psychically or some other way from that experience. Lupin is the exact ideal of the stuff we just talked about with Snape. He listens. He knows every student's individual story and wants and needs. He takes time to get to know them. He caters to them. He cares about them. So between the two of them, or between Lockhart, who didn't care and also continuously put his students at risk and was under equipped to handle any emergencies should they arise. That's the spectrum. Who you'd put. I mean, Quirrell didn't. Quirrell as a teacher was probably good. You don't hear any complaints about the course. But Harry had him in his first year, so you really don't know.

[Micah]

We didn't spend a whole lot of time with him either.

[Laura]

No, barely.

[Eric]

Barely anything. If anything, I. I think it was just one of those check a box and say what the subject was on Monday, but it really doesn't. You don't get a sense what his higher level classes were. I'm thinking because he was a Ravenclaw and seemed academically pretty sound, it was probably a decent class. But I imagine it being dry. Kind of like the scene we get in the movie with him just muttering something.

[Laura]

Am I misremembering that Quirrell taught Muggle studies before he came back and taught Defense against the Dark Arts.

[Eric]

I think you're right. That's right, that's right.

[Laura]

So I wonder if he was even equipped to be teaching that course.

[Eric]

So we're going to get into the actual specific dad lesson from this chapter but first a word from our sponsors. Okay, we're back. And typically I think when reading this chapter because we spend so much time with Harry, we see Harry flip out on Umbridge. Harry gets all of the attention but I actually want to pay attention now in this reread to the subtle work. Well sometimes not so subtle. Subtle is an outstretched hand in a room of silence that Hermione provides. Hermione and her initial reaction to the beginning of Umbridge's lesson sets in store the entire the rest of the lesson, the rest of the year and I think begins to even build the momentum for the DA where they all in this very well measured because Hermione knows enough to know the subtleties of what's going on. She has nuance here. Instead of just doing an outburst Hermione begins to quietly question Umbridge's goals and, and, and lessons and uses her own words against her. And I just think it's very masterful what Hermione does to sort of set up Harry's outburst that we always spend so much time on.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, it really is.

[Andrew]

And Micah had a point for a little later in the discussion but I'll just kind of jump off of it now. Her behavior here is similar to how she's the only one actually paying attention to that enemy by continuing to read.

[Eric]

The Daily Prophet that's so important.

[Andrew]

I guess it's Harry who says why are you continuing to get the Daily Prophet? It's full of lies. And she says I'm keeping an eye on the enemy. She's reading in between the lines just like here when Umbridge is setting up the course. She Hermione's reading in between the lines noticing what's missing, not just going along for a ride.

[Eric]

Yeah, everybody else is a good little student. They're reading their chapter as described and Hermione is the one who again Hermione GPT is like wait a minute. There's nothing in here about using defensive spells. And then everyone else slowly catches on and is like wait a minute, wait a minute. That is off that she's right. It just. You need somebody like Hermione to be able to not only if she had just blurted it out or if Ron had said, you know, randomly what we don't. You get to use our wands. Her umbrage would have shut down. You never would have gotten the same level of explanation exposition. It's funny because, you know, essentially you, you get a lot about Dolores Umbridge, how she ignores Hermione for easily 15 minutes because she doesn't want to deal. She pretends not to see her and then she's forced to engage in more of that sickly sweetness that's all false. You really get a lot of Umbridge's character there.

[Micah]

Yeah, but Hermione, I have to say Harry likely would not have gotten detention at all if it wasn't for Hermione. And I know that's a little bit of a hot take, at least not in this chapter. No, Hermione's actions directly lead to a blow up that leads to Harry getting detention for the entire week. Because Harry is very much like the rest of the students that you just mentioned. They're bored, they're reading their textbook, they're falling asleep. Hermione's actions expedite the tension between Harry and Umbridge and they end up landing him in a lot of trouble.

[Eric]

I would argue what you said earlier.

[Micah]

About Ron not showing up for Harry in this chapter in the right way. Hermione, also, because Hermione also recognizes what's happening. She's trying to get Harry to calm down and it's just, he's reached the breaking point after this day that he's had.

[Eric]

Here's my counterpoint to that, which is that Hermione in her questioning of Umbridge gives Harry a platform for the rest of the students to get to know him better because they see how outraged he is strictly about what Umbridge is saying about the discrediting that she's trying to do on their past teachers. And I think that the rest of the class that's in here finds a friend in Harry. They find the common ground. All because Hermione set that up.

[Micah]

Wrong place, wrong time for it.

[Eric]

Possibly. But getting the tension with Dolores, which is the next chapter, is not the worst thing that could have happened to Harry. I think the worst thing that could have happened to Harry is he would have no opportunities throughout the entire year to distinguish himself, to allow the school to really know who he is. And then subsequently everyone would just believe the more powerful government, the more saturated market that's discrediting Harry and he'd have a lot fewer friends and be miserable.

[Laura]

I also think Umbridge is kind of banking on the students being tired and bored and not paying attention. Just like she was at the start of Term Feast when she was basically being an Orwellian character and speaking in terms that were just so dull and meaningless that people got lost and tired and they'd been on the train all day and they didn't care about it because every school year has gone on normally. Why wouldn't that. Why would this one be any different? You know, you're right.

[Eric]

And then if anyone confronts her about something she's doing she says, well, didn't you pay attention in my speech? Where everyone seemed fine with it then, Right? It's like, oh, you weren't listening to my speech. Shame on you. So I, I just love the idea that because of Hermione's approach. And again, I've called it subtle, I've called it delicate, it's measured because of Hermione's whole approach of being the innocent question asker. It allows Umbridge to say a lot more and reveal a lot more than she would choose to. And I think it also causes Umbridge to say. To go on to say more unpopular things that these students hate and like serves to galvanize them against her. It works against her. The more Umbrage says that.

[Micah]

That Hermione is actually goading Umbridge in this case.

[Eric]

Yes, she's goading, as in goad. And then Hermione right now is goating, like, greatest of all time. I've never seen anything this good.

[Micah]

The double goat.

[Eric]

The double goat, four horns.

[Micah]

But I do see where you're coming from though. But I think the unintended consequence is Harry ends up in detention.

[Eric]

Yeah, I mean, I just feel as though if you take someone sane, let's pick a sane professor, any sane professor. And why did we all just pick McGonagall? McGonagall appreciates that Hermione knows what's going on. And she says as such to Harry later in the chapter, you know, Harry doesn't really have the capability and he's got so much else going on to really pay attention to the finer points of what's happening at Hogwarts. But Hermione can, and that's exactly, you know, words to the effect of what McGonagall is saying. McGonagall knows that Hermione knows that this is the way things are working.

[Laura]

And I think one way or another, whether it was now or a couple of months from now Umbridge was gonna find a way to stick it to Harry. Remember she really wanted to expel him from Hogwarts.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

So she really wanted to suck his soul out before she even Met him.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, good point.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I mean if you're talking about extreme. Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

She got started messing with him at school nice and early, earlier than she probably anticipated. I do have to say I think we can agree with Umbridge on at least one point during this outburst.

[Eric]

What's this going to be?

[Andrew]

The Dada teachings have been very fragmented due to the yearly teacher turnovers and Dumbledore's poor choices and the curse have given the Ministry a good reason to step in. It's been all over the place. This is the only course with this type of turnover.

[Laura]

Yeah, there does need to be oversight, but I think the Ministry also needs oversight. I don't know that they're the ones to be providing it. They're no better.

[Eric]

Yeah, well, like under the guise of educational reform they're able to basically disarm, literally and figuratively, this whole student body of Hogwarts. They don't prepare them for what's coming.

[Andrew]

Also I noticed Umbridge says the Ministry guarantees you are not in any danger to the students. Is that a money back guarantee? What kind of guarantee is that? Is that a serious teaching black guarantee?

[Eric]

Oh man, there's always the Dumbledore factor. He can always make it dangerous even if you try not.

[Andrew]

She's.

[Micah]

She should know. She's teaching in one of the biggest security nightmares in all of Scotland. But I. Yeah, I think that's pretty comical. See Breakout from Azkaban number one. See Quidditch World Cup. See Triwizard Tournament. See Breakout from Azkaban number two, which is coming later in this book. See Voldemort's return. Yeah, yeah. The Ministry guarantees you're. You're not in any danger.

[Andrew]

Don't worry about no room to issue guarantees.

[Eric]

By the time anyone calls them on it though, Hogwarts will be destroyed. You know, like it doesn't. There's no reclamations or there's no penalty. It's not like 20 years from now lawyers are going to be like if you were harmed at Hogwarts against the Ministry of Magic after they promised you you were safe, you may be entitled to compens. Not going to work that way. It's not going to work that way because Umbridge is literally lying through her teeth to achieve her short term ends and does not care about the future. You can wreck the school, you can wreck the planet with without any body to stop you because you're in power and you're abusing it.

[Andrew]

Well, and speaking of the Ministry's shortcomings, she does say that Cedric's death was a tragic accident. But what are the official details from the Ministry? What is their official line about how this occurred? And I did some research. I don't think we ever learn what the Ministry actually said happened. So how could people believe the Ministry when they're not giving any information about this?

[Eric]

Maybe they're desensitized to all those accidents that just occur when around Hogwarts went around Dumbledore.

[Andrew]

I guess so. But that would raise an alarm in my mind if I was a parent or just an onlooker. We always expect to learn details about tragic accidents.

[Eric]

The thing is Cedric Diggory was as far from like a moaning myrtle that you could get. You know who's just some girls. She's young and doesn't have their skills about her. She. He was a Hogwarts champion. 17 years of age. You know it wasn't just like some rando Hogwarts student died. This was a well practiced Quidditch star who had a lot of skill for to die in an accident really kind of throws into question the whole thing.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Ariane says we should send Umbridge some of our security consultant merchandise [e-mail] I think that's.

[Eric]

Do we have to send her Laura's pants?

[Micah]

If it's not in pink, she's not going to wear it.

[Laura]

True.

[Andrew]

We got to make a pink one just for her. And the final point I wanted to bring up about Umbridge. And this ties into the have a biscuit Potter moment at the end of this chapter. So at the end McGonagall refers to Umbridge as Dolores Umbridge to Harry not once, not twice, but three times. And this implies to me that she thinks she and Harry McGonagall and Harry are on equal footing here when it comes to their relationship to Umbridge and what they should think of her. If she had referred to Umbridge as Professor Umbridge it would have implied that Harry needs to show her respect or treat her as someone who is senior to him. But instead McGonagall's implying that Harry is her equal and he shouldn't have to give her the same respect he would any other teacher at Hogwarts.

[Eric]

Yeah, I agree with that. It's the same way that Dumbledore keeps calling Snape Professor Snape to Harry in the hopes that it will catch on. He fails miserably. Right, but. But Yeah. I mean McGonagall has no love for Umbridge and I think again calling her by her first name in front of a student which you Rarely if ever learned your teachers first names or heard it said by other teachers. You know, like it is a symbol if not disrespect, definitely dissent. And she's not. McGonagall is not sugarcoating Umbridge's presence and what it means for the school. And she's not, I guess, obeying in advance for the whole thing.

[Andrew]

She's.

[Eric]

She's showing that distance. I agree with you, Andrew, on this.

[Micah]

For one of the first times, Professor McGonagall is treating Harry as if he's a peer, as if he's an adult. And this is one of the great, I think, moments between the two of them. We see another one happen a little bit later on in this book in that careers advice chapter that you mentioned, Andrew. And then probably the most significant one is in Deathly Hallows when Harry uses the Cruciatus Curse on Amicus Caro after he spits on McGonagall. So I will say noticeable by his absence in all of this is Dumbledore. I do feel that there could have been a bit of a game plan here and Dumbledore should have spelled it out clearly to Harry to not let his buttons get pushed by Umbridge. I think that's what McGonagall is trying to tell Harry in this moment. And yes, Hermione has tried a couple of times already to do just that. But I. It's just so weird to me that Dumbledore is so absent in these types of situations because I think Harry would listen to what he has to say.

[Eric]

I believe that'll cover this discussion for chapter 12. Professor Umbridge, now let's get to some odds and ends here.

[Micah]

Yeah, so we. Andrew, you brought up earlier just the importance of Hermione receiving the Daily Prophet and what that represents. The fact that she's keeping tabs on the Ministry. I wanted to make sure we called that out. And then we talked about this earlier, this whole idea of, you know, standardized testing and Trelawney, she's got the right of it in this chapter when she says, you know, do you think a test could actually prove whether or not you have the ability to see the future or do other things that are divination related? And she's probably right. Like I don't think a test really can. Can suffice when it comes to prophecy and other things like that, so.

[Laura]

And also, I mean, when it comes to other subjects, not everyone's a great test taker. I'm not. I, like, I wasn't great at standardized testing.

[Andrew]

Also, I want to bring back one of our new segments here in Chapter by Chapter, that I came up with myself. Please translate for the dumb Americans. Let's play the sound effect.

[Eric]

Do we hear that again? I didn't quite hear that. Oh, yeah.

[Andrew]

Wow. The quote from this chapter is, we do try, said Ron when asked by Hermione if he pays attention during Bins's classes. We just haven't got your brains or your memory or your concentration. You're just cleverer than we are. Is it nice to rub it in? And then Hermione says, oh, don't give me that rubbish. But she looked slightly mollified as she led the way out into the damp courtyard. So I gotta admit, I didn't know what mullified meant. And it's basically to appease the anger or anxiety of someone.

[Laura]

Yeah. So, for example, she. Hermione was clearly very annoyed about Ron, implying that she was gonna have to do all of their homework. But Ron, in this moment, kind of flatters Hermione in saying, hey, listen, I'm just a big dummy and you have this big amazing brain, so can you please help me? And Hermione's still kind of salty about it, but she feel, you know, she got a compliment. She's, she's happy, acknowledged it, you know.

[Eric]

Yeah, we'll get you everywhere.

[Laura]

She's like, I know I'm better than you.

[Andrew]

At least he notices.

[Micah]

And then what did Ron do after he married her?

[Andrew]

So there's another. There is another word in this chapter. I've never seen that in an American book. This word. Ejaculate. Ron ejaculated. Loudly. I've never seen that in an American novel.

[Eric]

It's an outburst. Yeah, it's a vocal outburst.

[Micah]

You can save that for bonus Mugglecast.

[Andrew]

I'm not asking what it is, I'm just noting I don't see it in American novels too often. At least not you're reading the type that I need to read 50 Shades of Gray.

[Eric]

I think it's time to talk about what our favorite lines were of the chapter that were said to umbrage back in her face. Because pretty much the whole class got involved actually talking back. All because of the snowball effect that Hermione started. And I'm gonna go with, yeah, Coral was a great teacher, said Harry loudly. There was just that minor drawback of having him having Lord Voldemort sticking out of the back of his head. Good use of saying Voldemort's name, which we know always unnerves people. But he did it here for great effect.

[Laura]

I'm gonna go with Dean Thomas talking about Mad Eye Fakie and saying, well, he turned out to be a maniac, didn't he? Mind you, we still learned loads.

[Andrew]

So mine is this exchange between Umbridge and Harry. Umbridge says there's nothing waiting out there, Mr. Potter. And Harry says, oh yeah, let's think maybe Lord Voldemort. Ever hear of him?

[Eric]

Yeah, another good use of that name.

[Micah]

Perfect for me. Harry saying to Umbridge, so according to you, Cedric Diggory dropped dead of his own accord.

[Andrew]

What's the official line from the Ministry about that? I want details.

[Eric]

We all want details. Harry's pressing for it, so that's good. Let's talk about our links line question for the week. We asked over on our Patreon what is a wild dream that you have had which either came true shortly after or was just very weird? This. Of course we didn't talk about it during the chapter, but Divination class Trelawney assigns them dream journals and they're analyzing their dreams. So here is what our listeners replied.

[Andrew]

With Rachel said I was a math teacher for five years and always had crazy dreams in the days leading up to the first day of a new year. Then when I changed jobs, I still had that back to school dream in September. In it I was walking through the hallway but nobody spoke English and they used a different number system so I had no idea how to teach anything. It was a disaster and I was very relieved to wake up and not go teach.

[Eric]

Oh man. Carly says sometime last year I dreamed I had to eat a violin. Oh, yep. Wood, metal, strings, everything. No idea what the reason was. Just remember that it was super dry, hard and awful. I made the mistake of telling my family about the dream and my kids still tease me about it. For context, I'm an elementary school music teacher with lots of food allergies and sensitivities and we had just recently put all the pieces of my digestive puzzle together. So maybe those ideas were hijacking my subconscious just a bit. You think I hope to never have to eat a string instrument? That sounds awful.

[Micah]

Sherry says. I have two different stress dreams. You all know I'm blind. When my stress level got out of control, I used to dream that I was in the front passenger seat of a car with a friend. We were on Highway 101 during rush hour in California and the driver had a heart attack or became otherwise unable to drive unconscious. I had to try to figure out how to stop the car. I'd wake up, shaking and terrified. I haven't had that dream since I retired. Now, I occasionally dream that I'm in the US but for some reason Mount Everest is in the US And I'm trying to climb it. And I just figured out that this dream is probably about my battle with cancer and the chemo treatments I'm going through right now. Funny, that never occurred to me before.

[Eric]

There is therapeutic value in talking about your dreams, people. Maybe Trelawny's onto something. And I'm grateful to you, Sheri, for sharing those.

[Laura]

Yeah, thank you, Sheri. We're thinking of you. Please keep us posted. Ashley says when I was 13 so in 2005, I had what can only be described as a Benadryl induced sleep movie. I was aboard the Titanic, Credence was not there, and I was trying to escape with Trey Cool, the drummer of Green Day. While running across the ship, we saw the band playing, but they all had lobster claws for hands. As we boarded a lifeboat, it capsized and suddenly we were in my middle school hallway and the bell was ringing. I then woke up. I have no words for it, but it has haunted me for 20 years. Also, mad props to whoever gave me this links line submission to read because Green Day, Green Day, Titanic, Trey Cool, like perfect.

[Andrew]

Laura's jelly of this dream.

[Laura]

I know, I know. You know, I actually, I. I don't usually remember my dreams. I'm not either.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I did have a nightmare recently involving a gun. So.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Anyway, here's one from Autumn. I used to have a dream as a kid that was reoccurring until I was about 10. These giant pigs which walked on their hind legs would come in the night and take me away. The secret entrance to their world was our fireplace in my old house. They had a huge cauldron and were planning on cooking me, but never got that far in the dream, thankfully.

[Laura]

Oh my gosh.

[Andrew]

Very detailed too. I kind of love all the details here.

[Eric]

I know Grimm's Fairy Tales maybe.

[Andrew]

You know what I'm thinking though? Sometimes listeners tell us that they listen to the podcast when going to bed at night. Yeah. As a way to help them sleep. Now I'm thinking some of our listeners are listening to these dreams while asleep and they're gonna have start having dreams about pigs coming to cook them in cauldrons.

[Eric]

Wow. Okay, let's listen to let's end on a funny one then if that's the case. Andrew. This comes from Katie, who said once I had a dream that I was flying on a blue dragon to save Harry and Ron from the Reaping and Hunger Games. I tore up the stage, leaving the hosts in their ridiculous outfits. Ron whimpered like he saw spiders. Harry told Katniss, good luck and quote, stick it to the man with the crappy nose. And she did the three finger salute. Everyone applauded. And I still don't know who the guy with the crappy nose and Hunger Games is.

[Andrew]

I love this dream merged fandom. I want to dream something that merges phantoms.

[Eric]

Absolutely.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Those types of dreams happen when you're, when you're very young, I think, interacting with the characters in a new level. So that's very exciting. That was a fun little links line segment. Thank you to all who submitted that.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And listeners, you can participate in the links line every week by becoming a [e-mail] mugglecast we're having a lot of fun coming up with these questions and then reading all the responses. If you have feedback about today's discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that's recorded on your phone to mugglecastmail.com and next week we actually will have a Muggle Mail episode.

[Micah]

So stay tuned for Send those voice memos.

[Andrew]

Get them in now, everybody. And now it's time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week question was in light of Umbridge's long and boring speech. What's the length of the longest speech ever given in the UK presented by Henry Peter Brougham in 1828. The correct answer was six hours. Six hours of a speech given in 1828. I'm so glad Umbridge let them sleep and didn't go on for any longer. 73% of people said they did not look that up. And this week's winners were Alabaster Alistair, Annabelle, the Real Life Weasley, Ben, not Shane because I'm younger than Mugglecast. Bor Loris, Dumb Beep Buff Daddy fell asleep during Umberg speech. Jim Dale's Sorting Hat song My history Teacher is almost as interesting as Professor Bins. Hashtag almost fell asleep. First day of geography. Ravenpuff from Sweden and Tofu Tom jiggles again. Okay, keep, keep on jiggling there too for Tom. Here's next week's Quizzage question. Which US fast food chain was the first to add savory biscuits to their menu in the 1970s? I love, love, love a good biscuit from a restaurant.

[Andrew]

You're taking the UK biscuit and turning it into the American fast food.

[Eric]

It's fully the American biscuit. The prophecy is fulfilled here, really, honestly.

[Micah]

Just like our throwback episode, right?

[Eric]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

So submit your answer to this week's Kwizzitch question or next week's Quizzage question via the Quizzage form on the mugglecast website mugglecast.com quizzic or if you're there reading transcripts or something, click on Quiz it from the main nav and submit your answer.

[Andrew]

Check out our other weekly podcasts, what the Hype and Millennial for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. In recent episodes of what the Hype, we made predictions about the next book in the fourth Wing series, Onyx Storm, which is due out within days depending on when you're listening to this episode. And we reviewed the latest Star Wars TV series, Skeleton Crew. And then over on Millennial, we discussed the implications of TikTok being banned and the concept of third these shows are brought to you by Muggles like you. Listener support is the only reason we've been able to podcast for 20 years and counting, and there are several great ways to help us out. You can visit mugglecastmerch.com to get official Mugglecast shirts, hoodies, glassware, hats and more. And merch includes security consultant themed items so you can take care of much needed business at Hogwarts, just like Umbridge is allegedly doing. Apple Podcast subscribers can sign up for Mugglecast Gold, which gets you instant access to ad free and early releases of Mugglecast, plus two bonus Mugglecast installments every month and for even more benefits. And this is probably the best way to help us out. [e-mail] Mugglecast you'll get all the benefits of Mugglecast Gold, plus live streams, yearly stickers, links, line participation, a physical gift, a video message from one of the four of us made just for you, and more. We're very grateful for your support, so that is why we offer a lot of perks on our Patreon. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show and we'd love a five star review in your favorite podcast app that does it for this week's episode. Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

See you next week for a Muggle Mail episode. Bye.