Agent Harry (HBP Chapter 7, The Slug Club)

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast

Episode: Agent Harry (HBP Chapter 7, The Slug Club)
Date: November 18, 2025
Host: Andrew, Eric, Micah (Laura absent this week)
Guest: Nicole (Patreon “Slug Club” alumni)

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, the MuggleCast crew (joined by longtime listener Nicole) delve into two connected realms of wizarding discussion:

• Part One: A detailed review of the new Ministry of Magic-themed Wizarding World land at Universal’s Epic Universe theme park, with firsthand accounts from Andrew and Nicole.
• Part Two: A “Chapter by Chapter” deep-dive into Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Chapter 7: The Slug Club—exploring character motivations, themes of elitism and favoritism, and how Slughorn’s exclusive club sets the stage for the rest of the book.

The episode is packed with strong opinions, thoughtful analysis, humor, and insightful community interaction, making it a brilliant listen for casual fans and re-read devotees alike.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The New Ministry of Magic Themed Wizarding World (Epic Universe Review)

[03:08–16:36]

Impressions & Design

• Andrew and Nicole rave about the artistry and immersive detail of the 1920s Parisian setting:
  • “When I stepped into this land, my jaw was on the floor… beautiful from top to bottom. I was just in awe.” (Andrew, 05:13)
  • Nicole echoes that while it lacks the nostalgia of Hogsmeade/Diagon Alley, it’s “beautiful” and feels like a “step above every other theme park.”
• Discussion of how this new land elevates the standard set by previous Wizarding World sections, with particular praise of art deco aesthetics and cleanliness.

Food Experience

• Andrew notes upscale food presentation (real plates, silverware) and remarks that Disney has “some catching up to do.”
  • “I got the egg quiche... It was just beautiful in there.” (Andrew, 06:42)
• Nicole adds that the park experience overall feels premium, both in food and drink offerings.

Battle of the Ministry Ride

• The flagship ride is a dark-ride centered around Dolores Umbridge’s trial gone awry, with animatronic characters and cutting-edge screens.
  • “It's got the best animatronics yet... very fluid.” (Andrew, 07:48)
  • Nicole, a ride enthusiast, is impressed by the realism of the Death Eater animatronics: “You could really believe that was a real person in there.” (Nicole, 08:32)
• Both agree it’s less nauseating than Forbidden Journey and ranks just below Hagrid’s Motorbike Adventure in Orlando.

Other Attractions

• Le Cirque Arcanus: A live circus show, acclaimed by Nicole as “incredible… worth setting aside time for.” (Nicole, 14:33)
• Butterbeer and themed drinks served in unique mugs and glasses (“French butterbeer mug”), enhancing the souvenir experience.
• Nicole’s tip: visit the Plastered Owl bar for interactive musical performances not widely advertised.

Room for Improvement

• Technical/operational hiccups noted—long wait times for food and ride breakdowns—so advice for potential visitors is to wait a year or get an express pass.

Size and Offerings

• Land comparable in size to other Wizarding World sections, but the entire park could use more attractions to distribute crowds.

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Half-Blood Prince Chapter 7: The Slug Club

[20:06–66:53]

Harry’s Instincts About Draco—Why Isn’t Anyone Listening?

[22:14–37:34]

• Main frustration: Ron and Hermione's steadfast disbelief in Harry's theory that Draco is a Death Eater despite mounting evidence.
  • Andrew: “[Ron and Hermione] just aren't having it. They can't be convinced either way.” (Eric, 23:12)
• Possible reasons explored: aftermath of Harry’s traumatic mistake in Order of the Phoenix, Ron & Hermione’s lingering trust in authority (Dumbledore, the Order), and history of “crying wolf” (e.g., suspecting Draco in Chamber of Secrets).
  • “Your track record is no longer perfect, Harry.” (Eric, 24:07)
• Harry’s possible “sixth sense” due to his link with Voldemort is debated, but ultimately everyone agrees that his friends’ skepticism is narratively designed to mislead the reader and heighten the eventual reveal.

Notable Quote:

• “The premise is so silly because it’s like, guys, Voldemort’s a terrible person, but he would never ask a 16-year-old to become a Death Eater. What? This guy murders people. He tried to murder a child!” (Andrew, 31:43)

Community Interactions:

• Points raised by Discord listeners reminding that past Death Eaters (Snape, Regulus Black, Barty Crouch Jr.) were also very young. Arthur Weasley, in particular, “should know this.” (Andrew, 36:06)

Harry’s Moment with Neville: The Alternate Chosen One

[37:36–42:40]

• Harry reflects on Neville potentially being the Chosen One and feels envy and sadness for the parallel universe that could have existed.
  • “This kid just has no idea that it could have been him.” (Andrew, 38:58)
• Subtle details—Neville’s new (rare cherry wood) wand and Ollivander’s disappearance—are flagged as possibly significant.

Dissection of the Slug Club: Favoritism, Symbolism & Social Commentary

[43:02–58:02]

Slug Club Symbolism

• Micah discusses how the Slug Club offers a “glamorous exterior” but hides “something unpleasant beneath the surface… morally slippery.” (Micah, 44:34)

Morality & Fairness

• Critics of the club’s exclusivity and clickiness:
  • Andrew: “Too cliquey for an active professor to have this elite… group of people who he exclusively meets with…” (46:22)
  • Nicole: “At the root of it, it seems just kind of selfish.”
• The group also debates the lack of house diversity (no Hufflepuffs, four Gryffindors), and whether Ginny is chosen for her talent or other reasons.
  • Crackpot theory: Perhaps Slughorn is interested in Ginny due to her connection with the diary/Horcrux. (Andrew, 51:34)
  • Nicole counters: “He really didn’t even know her name…she’s really only here because of her actual accomplishments.” (Nicole, 52:08)

Slughorn vs. Lockhart—Comparing Professors

• Parallels drawn between Slughorn and Lockhart:
  • “Both are extremely self-absorbed.” (Micah, 56:32)
  • Both obsessed with fame, though Slughorn prefers fame by association rather than direct limelight.
  • “Both also like messing with memory.” (Micah, 57:47)

Inclusion & Legacy

• Discussion on how the current Slug Club lacks the excitement or relevance it may have once had.
• Nicole notes the problematic “trauma” basis for Harry and Neville’s invitations: “Imagine someone is like, hey, I want to hang out with you and just talk about the worst thing that’s ever happened to you.” (Nicole, 55:23)

Harry Spying on Draco: Impulsiveness & Consequences

[58:25–62:11]

• The group analyzes Harry’s rash attempt to gather evidence against Draco in the train compartment, critiquing his lack of strategy:
  • “For someone claiming Draco’s a Death Eater, Harry manages to take 0.00 precautions for what if that’s true.” (Eric, 59:18)
  • Nicole: “I…absolutely hate this part. It’s so claustrophobic to me.” (59:26)
• Micah notes that Draco’s own compartment mirrors a “Slug Club,” but more willingly attended.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Your track record is no longer perfect, Harry.” (Eric, 24:07)
• “The premise is so silly…Voldemort’s a terrible person, but he would never ask a 16-year-old to become a Death Eater. What? This guy murders people. He tried to murder a child!” (Andrew, 31:43)
• “Imagine someone is like, ‘Hey, I really want to hang out with you and just talk about the worst thing that’s ever happened to you.’” (Nicole, 55:23)
• “I don’t even want to be in the Slug Club. I don’t need that.” (Andrew, 43:14)
• “Maybe because technology’s gotten better. The trio really sounded like themselves [on the Battle of Ministry ride].” (Andrew, 08:08)
• “He leaves a trail, as slugs often do, of influence behind—some beneficial, some questionable.” (Micah, 44:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:08–16:36 | Epic Universe Ministry of Magic land review (design, food, rides, shows, tips)
• 22:14–37:34 | Ron & Hermione’s disbelief of Harry’s Draco suspicions
• 37:36–42:40 | Neville as the “other” Chosen One and wand connections
• 43:02–58:02 | Slug Club symbolism, critique, and Slytherin social commentary
• 58:25–62:11 | Harry’s misadventure spying on Draco and its parallels with Slughorn’s exclusivity
• 66:53– | MVP picks and community responses: Who really deserves to be in the club?

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Listener & Community Engagement

• Unicode Discord live listeners provided historical Death Eater ages and contributed to the chapter’s moral analysis.
• The “Links Line” and Quizzage question segment featured creative audience suggestions for better, more inclusive Hogwarts clubs, like “Positively Kind Peeps” and “The Magical Cookery Club.”

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Tone & Style

The episode strikes a balance between humor, insightful critique, and enthusiastic fandom. Banter between the hosts is wry but always affectionate, with plenty of space given for listener input and thoughtful engagement with Potterverse themes—never losing sight of the emotional or ethical core of the books.

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Conclusion

This episode combines the immediacy of theme park news with the deep analysis that MuggleCast fans love in their chapter by chapter reread. The crew’s combination of personal anecdotes, literary critique, and fandom shoptalk makes for an episode that both entertains and illuminates—highly recommended for any reader re-examining Half-Blood Prince or planning a (magical) vacation.

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Next Chapter: Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 8: “Snape Victorious”

Transcript

[Andrew]

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[Nicole]

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[Eric]

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[Nicole]

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[Andrew]

Com the premise is so silly because it's like, guys, Voldemort's a terrible person, but he would never ask a 16 year old to become a Death Eater.

[Eric]

What?

[Andrew]

This guy murders people. He tried to murder a child. Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

And I'm Micah.

[Andrew]

Laura's gone this week, but she'll be back next week. And we are your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So make sure you press that follow button in your favorite podcast app and you'll never miss a week with your Harry Potter friends. And this week, don't even bother trying to convince your best friends that your arch nemesis is up to no good. Our highly acclaimed chapter by chapter continues with chapter seven of Half Blood, the Slug Club. And before we continue, if you love the show and want to help keep this show tasting better than a mouthful of cold pheasants, we invite you to become a member of our [e-mail] mugglecast by joining, you'll receive two bonus episodes of the show every month, plus ad free episodes, access to our live streams, a personal video thank you message from one of the four Mugglecasters, a gift delivered by Al each year, and much more. We couldn't do it without you, so thank you so much. And if you're looking for other ways to support us, you can leave us a review in your favorite podcast app. You can tell a fellow Muggle about our show or you can visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy official show gear. And like I said, this week we're discussing the Slug Club chapter of Half Blood Prince and we have a Slug Club alumni here from our Slug Club on Patreon. Welcome back to the show, Nicole.

[Nicole]

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

[Andrew]

You and I actually ran into each other at Epic Universe last week. Coincidentally, you were going to be in the park the same day that I was. So a very happy coincidence. And I'm going to be talking about the new Ministry of Magic Land at Epic Universe this week. So I thought, well, let's have you on to help me talk about about it. So we're thrilled to have you back. You were actually last on the show in October 2018. This is old hat for you, right?

[Eric]

Yeah, you do. I. Hopefully you still remember how to do this from seven years ago.

[Nicole]

I might. I will try.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

We don't even remember how to do it.

[Eric]

We did it last week, honestly. We, we have a document we follow every week. But Nicole, I also wanted to say that, you know, you've been a patron of ours since day one and so we know that you're, we're very grateful to you for your support of the show throughout all of these years. And it's very exciting to get to talk to you again on here.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Andrew]

Yeah. We're going to start today's episode by talking about the new Harry Potter Wizarding World Lands at Epic Universe. It opened earlier this year. And Universal's Epic Universe features four themed lands. They have Dark Universe, which is a Monsters themed land. They have Super Nintendo World, which I was also very excited to see. They have Isle of Burke, which is a how to train your dragon themed land. And then of course, the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, Ministry of Magic. This land is the most beautiful Wizarding World land of the three. Even though the land is called Ministry of Magic, the land is primarily set in 1920s Paris. It's just the ride itself that is Ministry of Magic themed. Micah Eric, when I stepped into this land, I, I was not expecting this. Like my jaw was on the floor. I was blown away. Whereas Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley, with all due respect to the England Wizarding World lands, they have like a rugged feel. They have like a worn down feel. The Ministry of Magic Land set in France, beautiful from top to bottom. I was just in awe.

[Eric]

What's the main view then? Because there's a very iconic Hogsmeade. It's the, the, the, the shops and in the background you see Hogwarts and when it's Diagon Alley you go around the brick and you see Gringotts with the dragon. What's the view of Ministry in Paris?

[Andrew]

Paris, Paris, Paris.

[Eric]

Are there gardens? Is it like Versailles? Like what is it just.

[Andrew]

It's a wizarding world Paris. So there's just all this art everywhere. It's so clean, it feels modern even though it's 1920s Paris. In the distance, you do also see, when you first walk in, you see a circus tent event where a show is that Nicole will speak to later. Nicole, were you equally surprised by how beautiful this land was?

[Nicole]

Yeah, especially you don't get the same nostalgic feeling you do walking into Diagon Alley or Hogsmeade. But it still is beautiful and like I was surprised how much I enjoyed it as well with it not being, you know, probably our favorite movie or that sentimental like the Other Lands. It almost feels like I wish they had waited longer for the other ones. You know, it's almost like it's kind of, I don't want to say it's wasted on Fantastic Beasts, but it's, you know, to have all of that effort and money put into this, it is beautiful. It's like they had put that much into the other parks. That would have been nice to have that Harry Potter feel. But it is still beautiful.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I got food right away. I went to Cafe Lardela Serene again. Left my jaw on the floor. It was just beautiful in there. I got the egg quiche, which was very good. They also had a turkey sandwich which I was very tempted to try, but I didn't. And just the food is served on this really nice plate. You, you, you use real silverware, which was also the case in the how to train your Dragonland Isle of Burke Epic Universe. Just feels like a step above every other theme park I've been to, honestly. And I had spent four days at Disney World and I was like, Disney World has some catching up to do. Way better jumping to the battle Battle of the Ministry ride. So this is a dark ride. It's the big ride at the land. You're witnessing the trial of Dolores Umbridge, but she does break free and causes chaos. And that's of course the crux of the ride, I would say. It's got the best animatronics yet that I've seen across the wizarding world lands. They're very fluid. You see Death Eater animatronics, Umbridge, Harry and Ron.

[Eric]

So wait, animatronic but people animatronic? Is this like Pirates of the Caribbean? Yeah, okay, right, interesting.

[Andrew]

But much more fluid than like some of the stuff I've seen at Disney.

[Micah]

Did Imelda Staunton actually film parts for this ride?

[Andrew]

Yes, that is what we have heard. The trio does appear too, but I think you could tell they were more cgi. They recreated them, but they looked good and they sounded good too. We've talked on the show about how Hermione on the Hogwarts Express train doesn't sound like Hermione this time. Maybe because technology's gotten better. The trio really sounded like themselves. Were you going to say something, Nicole?

[Nicole]

I was just going to say the Death Eaters in particular because they had like a mask on the Umbridge and Harry and Ron because you could see their faces. Like if you look at them like, okay, those aren't real people, but the Death Eaters, it looked like they put a real like actor in the ride because you couldn't see their face. That's how fluid and good they looked. It. You could really believe that was a real person in there.

[Andrew]

Yeah, definitely. There's also a lot of the ride, like the, the, like the other two rides at the other wizarding world lands rely a lot on screens. But the screens in this ride, I don't, I, I don't know if they were. You know, we've all heard about 4K TVs. These were like 8K screens. It seemed to me the resolution was insane and it just offered a very realistic experience like what you were witness truly right in front of you. So I was very impressed by that as well.

[Eric]

Well, that's something that the technology has come so far even since like Battle of Hogwarts, like ride or. Sorry, the, the original Hogsmeade ride that was in the castle because I remember, I think Andrew, we went to Avatar land together like 10 years ago or like a few years later. And that was the only time I rode the, the Avatar Ride where you're riding the flying creatures and their screens Kind of like a curved screen above and below you. And I thought that was like the next evolution step up. The wind is blowing. It's like the most amazing thing I had ever seen. A couple years later, Gringotts comes out. A couple years later. You know, we got this. Like, that is something that is always improving. I'm very excited, definitely.

[Andrew]

And no 3D, thank goodness. I'm not a fan of 3D rides. So, Nicole, where would you rank Battle of the Ministry the ride compared to the other Harry Potter rides?

[Nicole]

I would say it's. It's number two. I. You can't top Hagrid's. I think that is the best ride in Orlando. Like, not even just universal, like, across all the theme parks. But I. I feel like this is a solid second. I mean, I really lucked out too, because I got front and center on this ride. So it. And the animatronics, I think, are just insane. So even though it's not as thrilling or as advanced as Hagrid's is, it would. I think that really, really did it for me. And it's not as nauseating like Forbidden Journey.

[Andrew]

Agreed. Forbidden Journey really throws you around, whereas this one, you're kind of still sitting in the same type of position you are for Forbidden Journey. But this one, yeah, it just doesn't, like, bring you backwards and stuff like that. The vehicle looks like the Tower of Terror ride vehicle, but it doesn't do the dropping up and down like Tower of Terror would.

[Eric]

I think they learned. They learned their lesson. Nicole, when you just. As a sidebar. When you ride the Hagrid ride at Orlando, do you. You choose the sidecar or the motorbike?

[Nicole]

Oh, I choose the sidecar now because I did the motorbike the first time, and that was too much for me. Oh, I'm kind of a baby.

[Eric]

Understood.

[Micah]

Understood. See, the only time I've ridden Hagrid's was with Eric, and he was nice enough to gift me the motorbike. But now I'm having second thoughts based on what Nicole just said. I feel like I need to try things.

[Nicole]

Yeah, yeah, you have to try the motorbike. You have to try. But being exposed, it feels a lot more intense than it does in the. In the sidecar.

[Micah]

Well, yeah, and I can probably drop the photo in the discord, but you can see me literally, like, I'm hanging on for dear life.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I agree, Nicole. I don't. I don't know Orlando theme parks good enough to say it's that Hagrid's Motorbike. Hagrid's Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure is the best ride in Orlando, but definitely amongst the wizarding world lands. Definitely number one for me. So I would put Battle of the Ministry at number two or three. I really like the Diagon Alley ride, the one set in Gringotts, because there is a bit of a coaster element to that one. But this one, I think you nailed it. Forbidden Journey makes me too nauseous. Whereas this one did not.

[Eric]

How about the actual walking through of the Ministry atrium? Is that like part of the school for the ride? So what? Yeah. Is that big? Is it like a long walk?

[Andrew]

It's stunning. The Ministry of Magic atrium is very impressive. They have this little Floo powder effect. You go through a fireplace and smoke. Green smoke shoots up and then you get into the Ministry of Magic. And that was a jaw on the floor moment for sure. What I also really appreciated is that when you exit the ride, you go back through the atrium. Normally when you're going through these queues, you don't revisit the cool spots, but with this, you did, and it was a perfect opportunity. I parked myself right by the fountain and the Fountain of Magical Brethren, and I posed for a picture there after the ride. So I thought that was a really nice, thoughtful touch.

[Eric]

That's cool.

[Andrew]

Also, Micah promised me a butterbeer. Thank you for the butterbeer, Micah. I got a nice French butterbeer mug. I also went to another bar in the Ministry of Magic lands and it came with a special cup. It came in a special glass. I didn't have to upgrade or anything. And I took it home as a souvenir. What was the name of that bar? Bar Bar Moonshine. I went to and it came in almost like a souvenir mug.

[Eric]

Those aren't French words.

[Andrew]

The other bar there is Le Goblet Noir. That's also a place where you can grab some food. Bar Moonshine was like an American themed bar, sports bar, because they had all these pennants for American states, but set in the 1920s. So that was interesting. One thing at the new Wizarding World land that I didn't get to experience because the timing wasn't working out for me. Was Le Cirque our canoe. And this is a circus show within the new land. Nicole, you did go and check it out. How was it?

[Nicole]

Yes, it was incredible. I feel like if I didn't make it on the ride for whatever reason, but I got to experience this, I would have still had a pretty good day.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Nicole]

It Was that good? Like the ride, the animatronics are incredible. And I am someone who. I watch so many videos, ride points of view of Epic Universe. But I was completely unspoiled on this and that was so worth it. So if you're planning a trip in the next year or ever, maybe I would not look it up because I really appreciated it. Especially not knowing what was going to happen other than that we were going to see some beasts.

[Andrew]

That's really cool. I did end up peeking at it on YouTube because I wanted to talk about it on the show. But I'm glad you actually saw it. There's like real circus acts happening within this. Yeah, I'm impressed. So really cool. Yeah. Next time, I definitely want to witness this myself.

[Nicole]

Yes. And you do have to get in line pretty early too. Like, we got in line maybe 30 minutes before the show. You do have to set aside a good amount of time for it.

[Andrew]

That was the problem for me. And I spent a half hour waiting for food I had. I was trying to knock out as much as possible in one day. But I'm glad you got to see it. And I will say there's one. Let's call it maybe an unexpected cameo. I was not expecting it myself until I saw it in the YouTube video. So I think people will be very pleasantly surprised by the show. Even though I was really impressed by Epic Universe and this new Wizarding World Land, I have to say that nearly every ride I went on at Epic Universe that day had some sort of issue. And I think they still need some time to work out the kinks with the rides. So my suggestion for people would be to wait probably another year, unless you already have tickets to the park. And maybe in that case you might want to upgrade to get the express passes, which is their equivalent of the fast passes, because it is just not. They're still working out a lot of issues. But again, the park is so beautiful. They are ahead of Disney World. And I'm. I can't wait to go back.

[Micah]

I.

[Andrew]

There's more I need to explore.

[Eric]

What's your take, size wise? Because we've all been, you know, we've all walked around both of the other Orlando Harry Potter parks. How big is this comparatively, would you say?

[Andrew]

I'd say it's similar to the other two Wizarding World lands. Yeah. But from. I'm not a huge theme park nerd, but my understanding is that Epic Universe actually has fewer rides than the other parks at Universal, so they need to also add some more rides so they can handle more people within Epic Universe.

[Eric]

Oh, I see. Yeah. They started counting theme parks by attractions, which can include live performances and all sorts of stuff. So that's something that we've been kind of loosely tracking over the last 15 years, is like, oh, they opened up a whole new land, and it's got one ride, and it's like, yeah, but five attractions. It's like, okay, light show on the castle.

[Andrew]

Right. And speaking of issues, it took a really long time to get my quiche in the morning, which sucked because I'm trying to, you know, get moving, going to different rides and stuff. We had to wait, like, a good half hour. My brother and his girlfriend ordered some food, too, and that took. It was way too long for something that you sit down at a table of your choice, you mobile order, and then you have to wait a half hour with no updates. That was. That was not good.

[Nicole]

I did have one other Epic Universe tip from a local. Because this is not in the app, and Universal doesn't advertise it anywhere. This isn't in Harry Potter. It's in Celestial park in the Plastered Owl. It's the bar that's in the Oaken Tavern or Oaken Star Tavern restaurant. And they have, like, a live music, dueling guitar type of show where they. They'll sing regular songs too, but they do some improv, and we'll kind of make songs up and take suggestions from the audience. So you could kind of curate, you know, a Harry Potter type of show if you're in the audience and making those suggestions.

[Andrew]

Oh, very cool.

[Nicole]

So I thought that.

[Eric]

That's awesome.

[Andrew]

I love the name the Plastered Owl. That's actually what I call Micah most nights of the week.

[Eric]

It's true.

[Andrew]

I also went to the tiki bar near Celestial park in Epic Universe. That was a great time, too. Very delicious drinks. And again, the drinks are served in these unique. They're plastic, but they're tiki glasses for no extra charge. I thought that was so cool. All right, so that is our review for now of Epic Universe and the Wizarding world of Harry Potter Ministry of Magic. Again, really impressive. I was. I. They raised the bar for the Harry Potter lands and Universal. Just raising the bar with theme parks in general. I was very, very impressed. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll jump into chapter by chapter. We'll be right [e-mail], it's not just about window treatments. It's about you, your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. [e-mail] the only thing we treat better than Windows is you. Black Friday deals are going on all month long. Save up to 45% off site wide, plus an additional 10% off every order. Right [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply. All right, time for a chapter by chapter. And this week we're discussing half time. The Blood Prince, Chapter seven, the Slug Club.

[Eric]

Yes, and our pensive segment takes us back to the last time we Talked about Chapter 7 on Mugglecast 387. Titled Evil Picket for October 1, 2018, this clip references another exclusive club.

[Andrew]

What you're looking at are memories.

[Eric]

This is the most important memory I've collected. It is From Mugglecast episode 387, an invitation to Lunch. And the invitation comes from an Hef. Slughorn. Which is weird. I don't think we ever find out what Slughorn's full name is.

[Micah]

That's a good question. But I. I just thought about, well, maybe he's like the wizarding world's version of. Of the Hef. Of Hugh Hefner. Right? He. He throws these extravagant parties, he dresses up in these extravagant clothes. And everybody knows who Hugh Hefner is, right?

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that. That imagery of him being in a. In a robe, like, in a. Like a silk robe, kind of fits.

[Micah]

Me for smoking a cigar. Yeah.

[Eric]

Picturing. Picturing Slughorn. Absolutely.

[Micah]

I doubt that there's any correlation whatsoever, but it's just funny that his initials are half.

[Andrew]

This memory is everything.

[Eric]

So interesting connection there. And we did find out eventually through one of the released books from Pottermore Presents. Number two. It's not how it sounds. It's just the second of the Pottermore Presents booklet that Slughorn's full name is Horace Eugene Flaccus Slughorn.

[Micah]

Flakus actually means floppy eared.

[Eric]

Oh, like a bunny.

[Micah]

Like a bunny, yeah.

[Andrew]

Or an elephant.

[Micah]

Yeah, elephant's probably more appropriate for Slughorn. Yeah, he's not really the bunny type.

[Eric]

No, but Playboy bunny.

[Micah]

Oh, true.

[Eric]

What we were talking about. We were just talking about Playboy.

[Micah]

Yeah. All right, so let's jump into chapter seven, the Slug Club. How appropriate that it's also chapter seven.

[Andrew]

Very lucky to be entered into. Sluggish. Invited to join the Slug Club.

[Micah]

So this chapter begins with poor Harry trying his best to convince his friends that something is up with Draco there's something about Draco. Nobody wants to listen to what Harry has to say. And instead of being excited about going back to Hogwarts, Harry is laser focused on Draco Malfoy and I wanted to ask, do we think that Ron and Hermione specifically not believing him despite some pretty reliable evidence, does this all stem from what happened at the end of Order of the Phoenix where he was so convinced that Voldemort had taken Sirius and he leads his friends on this wild goose chase that likely could have gotten all of them killed?

[Eric]

I don't know. They all saw the same thing. That's what's wild to me, is that they all were there listening to Malfoy, seeing Malfoy do what he did. And it's just throughout the beginning of this chapter Harry's like, I think he's a Death Eater. I think he's doing this and they're just not having it. They can't be convinced either way.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's tricky for me because I do think that it does have to do with the end of Order of the Phoenix with Harry just sort of. Well, at the end of Order the Phoenix, he. He made a huge mistake. And now Harry is possibly in the eyes of Ron and Hermione jumping to conclusions and they're gonna tackle Harry's concerns differently this time. They're not just going to follow his lead because of what happened in the last book. I also think that Hermione and Ron wouldn't want to bring up what's going on in their minds like, oh, we don't trust you because of order, because of what?

[Eric]

Your track record is no longer perfect, Harry.

[Andrew]

Sorry. He knows he screwed up. He doesn't need to be reminded of it.

[Eric]

I wonder if it isn't also something of like Ron and Hermione really just can't internalize that times have changed. I feel like so much of reading this, I'm like, they're still in their end of Year four mindset where like Voldemort's back. It's horrible for everyone, but Dumbledore's on it. The Order exists and they're coming to save the day. They're, you know, Voldemort's only followers are the ones he had last less time and like even just the events of the Ministry. They may even be relieved that Lucius Malfoy has been arrested, discredited, fallen from grace. They feel comfort in that. Whereas Harry realizes that this isn't over. The fat lady portrait of Gryffindor Tower is not sung yet. And Voldemort is going to need to recruit more people. And this is where I think Ron and Hermione are still stuck in the end of Year four stuff. Harry talking about, you know, maybe Draco becoming a Death Eater is realizing that although the pieces may change, the game is still very much afoot. And, like, we know from the beginning of this book that giants are in the picture now and Voldemort is, like, more dangerous now than he ever has been. But I think that Ron and Hermione need to, like, update their internal systems to, like, be able to, like, realize that this reality is how things are. But Harry's 100% on it. The rules of last year, like, Dumbledore's got this. It's fine. They no longer apply. And somebody like Draco could be a Death Eater. He is a Death Eater.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well. And I would like to know what Ron and Hermione actually think Draco is up to because they don't exactly present any alternative ideas. They're just. I don't know Harry. But it is awfully suspicious what he seems to be up to.

[Micah]

Yeah, it's a fair point. I'm actually a little bit disappointed in both Ron and Hermione in this scene. And not only that, but it perpetuates throughout the course of Order or, excuse me, Half Blood Prince, where they're actively choosing not to believe Harry even though he's presenting with some relatively solid evidence. This all could have been solved, right, by pulling up Draco's sleeve.

[Eric]

Just get in there.

[Micah]

All the speculation.

[Andrew]

Right. When you're hiding in the train car, just drop down and pull the sleeve on your way down. The only other thing I'd add is, I guess, Ron and Hermione's forcefulness and how convinced they are that Harry is wrong is meant to misdirect the reader. Because in that case, it becomes an even bigger surprise as we go on through the book that Draco actually is up to no good.

[Eric]

Yeah, like, it's super believable that everything Harry's saying about him is true but their unwillingness to jump on board is kind of. Of interference. There's a part of, like, oh, okay, what else could it be?

[Andrew]

And then again, we do get the earlier chapter where we see Snape making the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa. So we know, we, as the reader know that Draco is up to something. It doesn't make sense. It's. It is frustrating. I'm disappointed, too, Micah, in Ron and Hermione.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, A past experience that Ron and Hermione could draw upon in this moment. Putting Order of the Phoenix aside is Chamber of Secrets because for a good portion of that book, Harry believed that Draco was the Heir of Slytherin and that proved to be false. And so I'm wondering, are Ron and Hermione thinking back to Year two? And it's one of those situations where you always think it's Draco, you always think he's up to no good and.

[Eric]

Right. Because they've said the same about Snape. You're always suspecting Snape. It's never snaped, you know, and they put that in his face a couple of times and it's never great.

[Andrew]

You watch too much True Crime, Harry, you're suspicious of everybody.

[Micah]

So as we move through Half Blood Prince, we'll definitely be keeping an eye on certain themes, certain things that we can connect back to Chamber of Secrets and this is definitely one of them.

[Eric]

But I mean, Micah, you pointed out the evidence is really compelling. Harry points out that it's actually like Malfoy's left arm that he showed him and he Harry and piecing the clues together. Like, he talked of a pair of things. And the others in the shop, like, Harry has been in the cabinet in Borgin and Burke's before. Like, we know that all of the pieces are here. And yeah, Ron and Hermione's unwillingness to believe Harry or to get on board or say, okay, something's, you know, something is afoot here other than, yeah, that's suspicious, let's ignore it, is disappointing. But my question, or my next question regarding this is is there like a sixth sense that Harry has strictly due to the Horcrux connection with Voldemort? Now, there's no way that Harry knows, like, Harry hasn't seen Voldemort interacting with Draco. But we also heard, I think from Dumbledore that Voldemort is actively practicing Occlumency on Harry. So Harry's not going to get these visions, but because Voldemort knows that Draco's a Death Eater, Harry knows. He doesn't know how he knows, but he knows knows. He knows, knows, knows, knows, knows because of this, this connection. So I, I think that when it comes to Harry's like, oh, my God, it was the dark mark. He's a Death Eater. The reason why he's so hooked on it is because again, that connection, that sixth sense tells him that he's 100% right. He's just having so much trouble convincing Ron and Hermione, because they don't have that like, same connection, that same knowledge.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's, it's a really interesting question. I do think there is something there, Eric, that Harry does have this sixth sense, but he can't put his finger on it. It's just like, it's in the Force. Use the Force, Harry.

[Eric]

It's just out there. You know it to be true. Search your feelings.

[Andrew]

But the tricky part for Harry is he has to show evidence. He can't just be like, well, I got a free one. And Hermione and Ron are gonna be like, no, Hermione's book smart. You gotta go with evidence.

[Eric]

Even the evidence that they just all saw. Like, they don't, again, they don't have an alternate theory here. Like that was suspicious, but that's the end of it. They just don't care. They don't. And it's not that they're bad friends, it's, it's, it's almost out of character actually that they don't care. Ron was supposed to be this great strategist after all. Remember his chess game at the end of year one? And Ron, I think if that character trait had stayed true throughout the whole series Ron would be pretty invested in figuring out where the pieces were currently set on Voldemort's side right now. Like, he would be right there alongside Harry going, you're right, this is awful. And Malfoy very much, you know, could be this. Let's keep talking about it. Instead of, he's the biggest voice of dissent going, a 16 year old can't be a Death Eater, Harry.

[Andrew]

That is so frustrating to me. That is.

[Micah]

So let's talk about that then because this is one of the pieces of evidence that are given against Draco being a Death Eater. We hear it from Ron and Hermione. We also hear it from Arthur Weasley. And so is there a cutoff like, can you not become a Death eater until you're 18 years old?

[Andrew]

The premise is so silly because it's like, guys, Voldemort's a terrible person, but he would never ask a 16 year old to become a Death Eater. What? This guy murders people. He tried to murder a child. He does not care what age.

[Micah]

Draco is actually brilliant if you think about it. To recruit younger Death Eaters to put them inside of Hogwarts to be operating on his behalf unbeknownst, presumably to Dumbledore. It's, it's actually a really smart move. So the fact that, you know, let's put Ron and Hermione aside for a second the fact that somebody who's in the order like Arthur believes this almost to be preposterous is. It's, it's.

[Andrew]

You're saying it's brilliant because nobody would suspect Draco or any other 16 year.

[Micah]

Old yeah, well I'm saying the whole idea of recruiting youth is br is a brilliant idea in, in this case for Voldemort because he would be tapping into a whole different group than he did previously and if you think about it he would want people inside of Hogwarts to inform him on what's going on he assumes he has Snape Right, okay, fine but the students know a lot more about what's going on in the school than the professors do yeah, no much has been proven over the.

[Eric]

First five books what we learn about Voldemort in this book is that. I mean he started killing when he was 15 or 16 he killed his parents or his, his dad anyway his, his Muggle father and his whole family when he was about that same age and Crabbe and Goyle's dads are both Death Eaters too like Malfoy's dad's a Death Eater like Hermione and Ron really should be asking themselves what Draco is like gonna be when he grows up because this entire time like they've known. They've known Draco for five plus years and that this 100 tracks with what Draco was always going to be he was always going to grow into a Death Eater like his dad he's just as prejudiced, he's just as horrid, he's just as awful why is it so unbelievable that if Lucius were to step aside or be thwarted that Draco wouldn't immediately put the mask on that was dropped by his dad departing like Malfoy has no other career prospects than this so why is it so unbelievable that this could be the case?

[Micah]

Yeah, it's just a frustration point for Harry there's no question and I don't even know who the first person is to actually believe him in this moment we may not be getting it for several hundred pages at this point but I did want to bring up Mr. Weasley again because it's almost like in the scene between the two of them before he gets onto the Hogwarts Express that he's placating him he's not taking him seriously and I honestly, I expect more I know we were talking earlier expecting more about from Ron and Hermione I expect more from Mr. Weasley. Now, credit to him, he does go and raid the manor again. But he doesn't seem like he believes Harry in this moment or that he's going to be taking him seriously.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, especially after Harry just lost a father figure in Sirius. Especially after Dumbledore was largely out of the picture in Order of the Phoenix, Arthur knows he needs some father figures who are going to take him seriously. And yeah, Arthur just isn't there for him. So I agree with you.

[Eric]

I appreciate too, this little correspondence that they have. Like really, Arthur is Harry's inside man in the Ministry, which I appreciate it, but I get the sense, especially here that Arthur is not. And we see this from government officials. They're not there to meet the moment. They're not able to meet the moment as it's needing to be met. So Harry delivers this information even to like somebody who's vaguely the right person. And certainly an Order member can relay that to other ministry officials who are Order members. But it's either so unbelievable or it just hits it at the exact right, wrong way where Arthur really isn't able to do anything about it. Like if he raids the man, like that's all he can do. He keeps doing that. That's not going to uncover anything that it. That it's not supposed to.

[Andrew]

By the way, concerning young wizards becoming Death Eaters there's a couple people in the Discord bringing up good points. Camilla said Lucius and Snape and all them were super young when they joined the Death Eaters. And Carly's bringing up that Barty Crouch Jr. Was around 19. Regulus was a teenager too. So thank you to our patrons listening live on Discord tonight bringing up these great points. And Arthur should know this. Okay, maybe Ron and Hermione don't, but Arthur should.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. Troubled youths are at risk for becoming radicalized. And if your dad's a Death Eater, you know, I'm just saying, like, if, if Draco was always on that path why is it so shocking to Ron and Hermione that, that Harry thinks it's the case now, you know, when, when there's actually there for. For 15 years there wasn't a Voldemort to defend or rally alongside. Now there is, you know, if, if Malfoy was ever going to do it, it's going to be this year and the next.

[Andrew]

And what goodwill has Draco ever earned in the eyes of Ron and Hermione? There is no reason to not believe Harry.

[Eric]

Yeah, at least Mr. Weasley is trying to give the Benefit of the doubt, I think. But like historically, especially with all these other proofs like Barty Crouch Jr. And all these other like, you know, real world examples of this happening. Real world being the fictional wizarding world. But like, you know, I think it's completely reasonable what Harry is suggesting and I think everyone should believe him.

[Andrew]

Hashtag believe Harry.

[Micah]

We were talking about how this conversation between Harry and Mr. Weasley happens on the platform but Harry boards the Hogwarts Express and he ends up in a compartment with Neville and with Luna. So a little bit of a reunion there of Dumbledore's army. And there's this moment where Harry is looking at Neville and what I really liked about it and I totally forgot about this scene he's able to imagine Neville as the Chosen One and to see this through Harry's perspective, through his eyes knowing what he knows about the prophecy and taking a long hard look at Neville acting the way that Neville does saying, this kid just has no idea that it could have been him. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Do you think he's almost looking at Neville with envy? I say that because he's like, oh, what if there was this alternative universe where Voldemort did decide the other person was Neville and I could have been free of all this and my parents could have still been alive. Like, there's so many different scenarios that could play out in his head and I'm sure Harry wouldn't want it to be Neville but maybe the thought crossed his mind, what if it was someone else?

[Eric]

Yeah, I mean, this is the first time Harry's in, in Neville's presence since kind of finding that information. And so it's, it's fitting that he has this sort of a side where it like hits him. But it's, but it's really intense, really in like deep detail. It talks about whether Alice would have, like, sacrificed herself whether he would have been protected the same way that Harry was. And we know that, you know, Lily was spared because of the specific arrangement between Voldemort and Snape. And unless Snape was also very much into Alice I think things would have had to have played out very differently in that eventual confrontation if he had chosen Neville. So it's, it's impossible to say, but interesting to see Harry reflecting on this, I think. And the only problem I have with it is that Neville's under the impression that Harry's listening to him talk and Harry's very much not. He's like tuning Neville out to his face and going, oh man, this kid could have been the Chosen One. Instead, I am. And it's like Neville's having a whole conversation with him the whole time. Just thinking more about Neville real quick. We do find out what his wand is. And it's interesting. It's written in such a way as to be sort of throwaway, but given the focus that book seven has on wand lore, um, I thought it was interesting that during a moment when Harry is, you know, bemusedly thinking about the Chosen One and how Neville could have been it, we also get this little detail about what his wand is. I was like that. That that could have played some kind of a role. The stage might be being set is all it is. It doesn't, as far as I know, amount to anything, but really interesting that it gets mentioned.

[Andrew]

Well, and another reason to suspect that Draco's up to no good, honestly. I mean, Draco's in Diagon Alley at Borgin and Burke's, the same area where. Oh, no, Olivander's in Hogsmeade, so that wouldn't make sense.

[Eric]

Oh, no, Ollivander's in Diagon Alley.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

You're messing it up with theme park.

[Andrew]

I am.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

That's exactly what it's.

[Eric]

It's that darn wizarding World of Harry Potter theme park putting an Ollivander's right next to the joke shop, Zonko's. No, literally.

[Andrew]

That's so true. Yeah. So that's just more reason to be like, okay, Draco is up to no good. Ollivander has gone missing. Like, come on.

[Eric]

Well, oh, yeah. And Ollivander was disappeared the day after Neville. So, like, Ollivander's last act as a wand provider could have been to give Neville Longbottom, the alternate Chosen One, his wand. Like, how suspicious is, how potentially pointy is.

[Micah]

It's true wand. Because remember, he was using his father's wand for the first five books. So now he should be able to do his own magic without having any kind of limitations, let's say because he's using another wizard's wand.

[Eric]

I mean, I could easily have seen this. It's mentioned that it's, I think unicorn hair, but I could easily see this being like the third tail feather of the phoenix, you know, something that he got from Ollivander before Ollivander went just.

[Micah]

To wrap us up. One thing I wanted to mention that got brought up in the Discord by James, he said that. I think it's because Neville's comment that his grandmother said she'd Love to have Harry as a grandson triggered this simultaneous sensation in Harry where he feels envy, but also sadness that his and Neville's lives are mirrors and everything could have been different because of one decision made by Voldemort.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I really think that has to be brewing in Harry's head. This is just like a really wild alternative reality to consider.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's hard not to get hung up on the what if. That's why we have such a great segment of what if on our show. It's like, it's so important, but Harry rarely does it. Harry rarely has this deep level of, like, retrospection and, like, thought of what might have been. It's such a unique experience reading it in this chapter.

[Micah]

Well, I'm just checking. Did everybody get their invitation to the Slug Club?

[Andrew]

To the Slug Club?

[Micah]

Yes.

[Andrew]

No.

[Eric]

Mine was hand delivered by a young kid that just looked very, like, stared at me. They wouldn't stop staring at me.

[Andrew]

I don't even want to be in the Slug Club. I don't need that.

[Micah]

Well, some of us will be going off to Professor Slughorn's compartment. Others will be just hanging back and, I don't know, finding something to do with their day podcasting. We will do that right after this break. So the infamous Slug Club. First off, the name is Trash, okay?

[Andrew]

Oh, Mike is jealous he didn't get an invite.

[Eric]

Hey, hang on. We named a whole section of our Patreon Slug Club, so how much can we really rat on it?

[Andrew]

It's a brilliant name.

[Micah]

All right, I'll have to concede a little bit there, but it does carry with it a certain amount of symbolism. And I was kind of doing a little bit of digging on slugs. And, you know, the Slug Club presents this glamorous exterior. You think about the fine food that served the elite company that all of these students are around, that Slughorn surrounds himself with, but yet it hides something that's just a little bit unpleasant beneath the surface. And this whole idea of a slug hints that the club surface charm masks something morally slippery.

[Eric]

Ooh.

[Micah]

And, you know, borrowing slippery. So. Well, we're going to get into some. Some slug analogy here, because Slughorn himself oozes charm to get close to fame. He slides away from discomfort, like hiding the Horcrux memory. And he leaves a trail, as slugs often do, of influence behind some beneficial, some questionable. So a little name origin. Ish segment there, but yeah. What are our general thoughts on the Slug Club?

[Andrew]

Nicole, do you want to start as.

[Micah]

A Slug Club member yourself?

[Nicole]

Right Exactly.

[Andrew]

So Nicole's computer was having some issues, but she's back now. Welcome back, Nicole. Sorry for the Nargles.

[Eric]

I love it. It's Raxperts. They get mentioned in this chapter.

[Andrew]

Oh, yes, yes. This week it's Raxperts.

[Micah]

They're all causing chaos together.

[Andrew]

Was it Raxperts?

[Micah]

General thoughts on the Slug Club.

[Nicole]

Yeah. I mean, at the root of it, it seems just kind of selfish.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

That these are people he wants to spend time with for his own gain, whether he gains anything from it or not.

[Andrew]

I am not a fan of it. I. I think. And we were kind of debating this a couple of weeks ago, but I think it's too clicky for an active professor to have this elite air quotes group of people who he exclusively meets with and they dine well and you know, they get to mingle with one another. It's. I don't think this type of organization should be running at the school. Do you want to do it maybe over the summer breaks? That might make sense. Or outside of Hogwarts, do it at Hogsmeade. But the fact that this is happening in school, run by one of the professors and he decides who gets to join it. Roast me the wrong way.

[Eric]

Well, and what's the urgency? Why does the first ever meeting of the Slug Club for this school year need to happen on the train there?

[Andrew]

That part was weird too, you know, and that's.

[Eric]

And that's really where they.

[Micah]

Because you got to catch them all, Eric.

[Eric]

You got to catch them all. So you got to start early. Yeah, right. Just north of Pallet Town, there's that grass. Grass. I gotta catch my first several Pokemon. Everyone that's in there. No, like it. Just like. Here's the biggest takeaway from, from this encounter. Nobody has a good time. Everyone looks at like, like it goes through like Slug. Slug Horn. Questions everybody about their connections, about their validity. Harry is like analyzing. He's like, oh. He seems to have reserved judgment on some of these people. Like whether they'll be permanent members or not is up to Slughorn. That just feels gross. But like, yeah, it's, it's. It turns out that whatever Slughorn heard about Bell B's uncle or McClaggin's, you know, closeness with the minister, that's all. Turns out not to be exactly what he thought it was. And the half of the meal is spent just like informing him of that. He could have either done his research beforehand before handing out these exclusive invitations that have his, you know, secret initials on them to people that may or may not be connected in the way that he thinks he does. And you know, the pheasant is probably delicious, but I just, I can't see anybody wanting to cold, though.

[Micah]

That's at least what we heard.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Yeah, it's definitely off putting to see this kind of thing. And, and the question too is, how long has it been since Horace has. Has convened a Slug Club? Because times change, people change. And, and perhaps the students that he's trying to draw in here as, as you were saying? Because I think it's important that really none of these students care at all that they are being recruited to the Slug Club. And maybe part of that too is, is a legacy factor, right. That he hasn't been around for a while. So nobody even knows what the Slug Club is. Perhaps it used to carry with it a certain level of gravitas or importance, but now it's like nobody even knows who Slughorn is.

[Eric]

No, the students in this year are millennials. They just want to be on their cell phones the whole time. They don't care about this prestige.

[Andrew]

And I don't think any of the students really enjoy being in it much as was just being raised because Slughorn's just like the annoying uncle who talks too much. You just want to get out of there. And yeah, that is a great question too, like, when was the last meeting? Because none of these kids know when know this guy until now. But maybe they're like, oh, well, it does feel exclusive, so that's exciting. We all like the feeling of being part of an exclusive group. You get, you know, limited time, access to something that's always a good.

[Micah]

Like marketing a free physical gift.

[Eric]

I will say. I will. Well, I'm so glad you mentioned that, Micah. I will say Gryffindors are overrepresented. There's four Gryffindors and one Slytherin and one Ravenclaw. Now, Nicole, as a Gryffindor, one of the rare Gryffindors we speak to on our show, how do you feel about the percentage of Gryffindors that are represented here? Do you feel like that adequately says something about Gryffindors as a people?

[Nicole]

No, I'm, I'm with you. There needs to be more representation, especially if you're going to have a club. I feel like you would want. That's your chance to hang out with people in different houses.

[Micah]

Yeah, right. Well, you buried the lead.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

There are no Hufflepuffs.

[Eric]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just our personality trait. Hufflepuffs don't seek glory. So if Slughorn is just half assedly looking down the corridors for anyone he thinks is interesting, you're gonna find people like hexing others like Ginny. That's how she gets there. And not find the. The harder to find Hufflepuffs, who are probably tending moon calves or something in the back compartment.

[Andrew]

Well, I used to think that it was just fans in the fandom who created all the Hufflepuff hate, but it's actually really canon. How? There's a lot of Hufflepuff hate and a lot of Hufflepuff erasure. It starts in book one when Draco's like, I hope I don't get sorted.

[Eric]

I think I'd leave.

[Andrew]

I think I'd leave. Wouldn't you?

[Micah]

I'm supporting the Hufflepuffs today with the sweatshirt I have on.

[Eric]

You are. I appreciate that.

[Micah]

But Eric, as you mentioned, the breakdown of the different houses. So in terms of characters though, we have Harry Neville, Ginny Blaze, Zabini, Cormac McClagon and Marcus Bellby. So this is the initial group that we are introduced to. It will grow as we move on in this book. But let's talk about Ginny. Eric, you brought her up. Why Ginny? What does it say? That Slughorn evaluates her based on talent versus her last name, which is a pure blood last name or just legacy, where clearly that's how most of these other people were invited to the table.

[Andrew]

So I actually have a crackpot theory about this. I actually don't think it's about her talent at all. My crackpot theory is that Slughorn was, you know, he says he's impressed by a hex that she did. But what if Slughorn knows that Tom Riddle slash the Diary were talking to her and influencing her back in Chamber of Secrets and he wants to get closer to Ginny to learn more about that dynamic. This has nothing to do about Ginny's talent at all.

[Eric]

I'm blown away.

[Andrew]

Are you? Just thought I had.

[Nicole]

Well, I. I love a good crackpot theory, but I feel like the text kind of shows us that he really even know her name. He just calls her Miss when they're leaving and he makes sure to say Harry Blaze like, and her with her. He does not say her name once. So I feel like that is telling us she's really here and is the only one because of her actual accomplishments, not just because of her name or because he knows who she is. Not that I'd want to hate on your theory, because it is really.

[Andrew]

That's, that's fair. But I guess my counterpoint would just be he's maybe just being polite with Ms. Using.

[Eric]

Well, Jenny has such a, like you said, connection to a particular Horcrux. And Slughorn is the reason why there are Horcruxes in this world right now that we're dealing with that that Slughorn is responsible for the fact that Ginny ever had to contend with a Horcrux. Loosely. So it's an interesting connection to say the least. But the other aspect of this too is that the Weasleys are a huge pure blood family. The author wrote this thing called the Sacred 28. And both Slughorn and Weasleys are, are the. Are two of the 28 Pure Blood families in the whole world. So if he doesn't know Ginny, he at least knows the Weasleys. True. And, and in fact, here's something interesting, though. I'm reminded that in a previous chapter, Molly said that Slughorn never seemed to have time for Arthur. So I think that what ended up happening is Slughorn's own little prejudices. Maybe Arthur was unremarkable at school or something, but Slughorn had largely written off these purebloods. And it was only at the last possible second when he realized there were two more seats at the table or something, that he started looking down the corridors. Who can I invite? Saw her hexing Zachariah Smith and decided, oh, she can come too. Maybe he was surprised that she's Weasley.

[Micah]

Which is funny because I don't really think Ginny even gets a seat at the table, if there even is a table, because it's a very small compartment, which is noted by Harry, especially with Slughorn being in there. And then Ginny is kind of tucked in the corner, literally.

[Andrew]

And also she's the one girl in this class, if you will, of new inductees, which also lends to the theory that he was just kind of like picking somebody at random.

[Eric]

There's a bias there.

[Andrew]

Like, oh, talent, come on in. Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

Cause that's very real, like cognitive bias and even unconscious bias of what does success and talent look like to me, this old man who's, you know, long ago taught at Hogwarts for decades and it represents overwhelmingly male and kind of, I don't know, it's just funny to look at what these people are known for. Like Blaze's, I guess. Mother is very famous for maybe having killed seven dudes that she was married to. So it's also Kind of funny to just look at what. But what it is that piqued Slughorn's interest about these other people that aren't Harry.

[Micah]

And Nicole, you had an interesting point here about why Harry and Neville were chosen.

[Nicole]

Yeah. They're really only there because of their trauma. So imagine someone is like, hey, I really want to hang out with you and just talk about the worst thing that's ever happened to you. And that's the reason why you're here. So that's a little weird.

[Eric]

It's a little insensitive.

[Micah]

Absolutely. And I don't necessarily think that Slughorn is evil, but he's deeply complicit in systems of favoritism and elitism. And this is a little bit of a different edge to Slytherin than we've seen through the first couple books. And I would actually even say that it's not something that's unique to Slytherins because I think that there are some comparisons we can draw to Chamber of Secrets to the. And at this point, we don't know that Slughorn isn't going to be the Defense against the Dark Arts professor, but let's just say the new professor on the train. I think we can make some comparisons here to Gilderoy Lockhart, who was a Ravenclaw.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I love this line of thinking here, that there are similarities between those.

[Micah]

Yeah. They are both extremely self absorbed.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah. They're also like, they, they miss the full picture of what's right in front of them. Like, I think they tend to make assumptions. Like it's when Lockhart is always walking up to Harry. Oh, famous Harry Potter. He loves being famous as much as I do. Like, that's a completely wrong read of somebody who's right in front of him. And if he were more observant or less, you know, I don't know, bombastic and assuming he might get farther.

[Micah]

But they're both drawn to Harry's.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Celebrity popularity. Yeah. I mean, even Slughorn mentions in this chapter, oh, Harry, they call you the Chosen One, you know.

[Eric]

Yeah. And they want to capitalize on it. Or they want. They think it elevates them. They're not actually there to, like, help him. They're both using Harry. And they also think that they have. They have a high opinion of what they themselves can offer to the world. Like, all Lockhart ever did was take credit for smarter and better wizards stuff. But he had such a high opinion of himself. And Slughorn really prides himself on boosting, you know, the careers of these students. But Maybe all he ended up doing was unevening the playing field for some of the people that would have gotten, you know, less overlooked. Who knows?

[Micah]

Both also like messing with memory.

[Eric]

That's blows my mind.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, but maybe in Slughorn's case.

[Micah]

Not he doesn't like it, but he had no problem doing it in order to achieve his ends.

[Andrew]

Ed doesn't want to admit to it still really or talk about it. Both are also about fame, but in different ways. So Lockhart wanted to be famous, but then Slughorn wants to be associated with the famous or just unique people and maybe just be famous by association.

[Micah]

Agreed.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's the difference between Slytherin and Ravenclaw or something. I don't know.

[Micah]

Perhaps. So we wrap up this chapter inside the Slytherin compartment. Harry, once leaving the Slug Club, sees an opportunity to trail Blaze and make his way into the compartment. And I would argue that he makes as ill advised a move as Hermione does at the end of the previous chapter because he is just so hell basked on proving that Draco is a Death Eater. Do we agree? Disagree?

[Andrew]

I agree with you. Maybe jumping back to the earlier discussion, maybe he really wants to convince himself he can be on the right track. He's still feeling the events of the last book oh, I got played by Voldemort. Now he wants to convince himself he's still got it, he's still the Chosen One. So he's determined to prove his theory true.

[Eric]

Here's where it's so hard to read this for Harry. Like I mean Malfoy bests him in every possible way. Like completely annihilates Harry. But for somebody who's claiming that Draco is a Death Eater, Harry manages to take 0.00 precautions for what if that's true? Like, seriously, what if that is true? You, you haven't just gone into the compartment where your old teenage school rival is. You've gone into a compartment where a Death Eater who could know some serious stuff is talking about actual secret plans with his closest fellow Slytherins. And Harry is. Makes a just a ton of mistakes. Just a ton of mistakes, one right after the other doesn't really have a plan for getting in there. So he like puts his foot in the door to like have it jam, drawing attention to himself, shows his shoe when he climbs up into the rack, isn't prepared, isn't watching crabbergoyle when they get their suitcase so you know, audibly gasps from the rack when he's hitting the head with it. Like just one thing after the other. Like, Harry, if you're going to be making these accusations, like, if you want to get to the bottom of this, you need to think more strategically. This, this flying by the seat of your pants kind of stuff. Like, I'm sick of it. We know he's only going to keep doing it all the way through all of book seven too. But like, you got to understand, like, this is dangerous territory now. This is dangerous territory. And Harry's lucky that what happens to him isn't worse. Even though it's the most horrible thing that ever happens to Harry that we read about in the books.

[Andrew]

My big gripe is that when him and Draco are alone in the compartment, Harry doesn't immediately try to be on the offensive. He should have tackled Draco, pulled down that sleeve, revealed that dark mark. Oh, just had the first, the first punch, if you will.

[Eric]

Well, it's. It's Petrificus totalis. He's petrified.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but he should have, he should have attacked Draco before that even happened.

[Eric]

Oh yeah, like when, when it was just Draco in the. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think, I think, yeah, absolutely.

[Nicole]

Like you were saying, he should have cut his losses once he realized he was seen and acted a little bit quicker. But I, I absolutely hate this part. It's so claustrophobic to me.

[Eric]

Oh yeah.

[Nicole]

Like, I want, say, to skip over the nec. The beginning of the next chapter.

[Andrew]

Yeah, don't worry, Tonks will save the day.

[Nicole]

Right.

[Micah]

What I found interesting about when Harry enters this compartment is it's almost like Draco is holding his own version of the Slug Club because he's sitting there with Crab and Goyle and Blaze and Pansy and you know, he's talking. I'm not. I guess the only difference would be the people who are in this compartment for the most part are actually interested in what Draco has to say versus Slughorn. Nobody was interested in what he had to say.

[Nicole]

Yeah, this is what Slughorn wants his Slug Club to be.

[Micah]

Like, maybe he could take. Maybe he once was right. And that something that actually comes up in conversation with Blaze, who was just in the Slug Club. And there's this line here that I wanted to call attention to. I think we actually talked about it when we last just did this, chapter by chapter, because was it not who comes up? There's one of the Death Eaters who. Or one of the Sons of Death Eaters who comes up and Zabini makes the point when Draco then kind of goes on to talk about himself. I don't think Slughorn's interested in Death Eaters. And I think that's a clear, like, message to us as readers. It's a little bit of an indirect way of letting us know that Draco is a Death Eater.

[Eric]

Could be, yeah. And it speaks to, you know, I mean, I think that probably some of Slughorn's top students 40 years ago or, you know, 25 years ago were the ones that became the Death Eaters. Like Lucius Malfoy. And he probably fostered a lot of their connections at the Ministry too. But after having seen what became of that after having seen what became of Tom Riddle and some of his students Slughorn has now distanced himself or is smart enough about it in front of Dumbledore or where Dumbledore can find out to not invite a bunch of Death Eater kids to his inaugural Slug Club of this school year.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Oh, Micah, you're pulling out book six. What are you looking at?

[Micah]

I just want to make sure I get this line right.

[Andrew]

I love when a host pulls out the book. It's so authentic. Nicole, before we get to MVP of the week you did have one odd and end for us. Con concern. Devil's new wand.

[Eric]

Right.

[Nicole]

Yeah, because I noticed that it was cherry and unicorn. The unicorn isn't that special, but the cherry wood is apparently extremely rare. According to what once was Pottermores. Now just Harry Potter.com, which sounds like it's, you know, that sounds like a fake source, but yeah. So not only was it, you know, Olivander's last wand that he sold before disappearing it was a pretty special and rare one, which I thought was. Was kind of cool. And Neville deserves to feel special.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So just to go back to that quote, it's Zabini who says I wouldn't bank on an invitation. He asked me about not's father when I first arrived. They used to be old friends, apparently. But when he heard he'd been caught at the Ministry, he didn't look happy and not didn't get an invitation, did he? I don't think Slughorn's interested in Death Eaters. Now that is Blaze presuming that Draco is the same as not. Which would be a Death Eater or.

[Eric]

At least somebody whose dad is.

[Micah]

Yeah. But I think we can read more.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Into that.

[Andrew]

Well, that's going to kill my MVP of the Week suggestion. Dang it. I'll stick with it. Anyway, thanks, Nicole, for sharing that. About the wand too.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

All right, moving on to mvp. We want to know who's one character in Harry's year who deserves to be inducted into the Slug Club. So not members that we already know of.

[Andrew]

So I'm going to stick with my pick. Even though this was a great call out just a minute ago, I'm going to say Draco Malfoy. Slughorn wants to know what's been going on with Lucius, and he was. Would want to spend a lot of time talking to Draco about that. And then maybe. He probably wants to know what Draco is going through as well.

[Eric]

Since we're talking about making the Slug Club a better, more inclusive space, I think the Patil twins should be. Yeah, we were talking about that. Right. The Patil twins would actually be a great addition to the Slug Club because they're twins, but one of them is in Gryffindor and the other is in Ravenclaw. That's fascinating. How does that happen? Let's ask them a hundred questions. So no Hufflepuff. It's still no Hufflepuff. No, we don't seek glory. We don't care. We're over it.

[Micah]

Oh, all right.

[Eric]

We just can't wait to get our hands in some dirt and some chocolate in our faces. I'm speaking on behalf of all Hufflepuffs right now. Right.

[Micah]

Adding another Ravenclaw to the mix. Anthony Goldstein, distant relative of Tina Goldstein and oh yeah, Queenie Goldstein. And they were pretty badass. So they were badass and being inclusive, as you mentioned, I think the only Jewish student at Hogwarts we know of.

[Eric]

Yeah, the one that gets pointed to. Yeah.

[Nicole]

Well, I'll give you some Hufflepuff representation, Eric. Susan Bones. Since her aunt, Madame Bones is the. The head of Magical Law Enforcement, I feel like that's someone Slughorner is going to want his corner. Maybe later in the book when he accidentally poisons a miner, that might come in handy.

[Andrew]

Smart.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Appreciate that. If. When he has. When. When Slughorn has more than 30 minutes to dedicate to figuring out what roster looks like, I think he'd do it a little differently. Yeah. I don't know why this had to happen on the train. Now that we think about.

[Micah]

All right. And then over on our links line, we asked our patrons the question of the week. And since they are our Slug Club, if they were to create our own, their own version of it, what criteria would they value most? And what name would they give to the club they could rename? It doesn't have to be the Slug Club.

[Andrew]

Oh, and people did rename it. Betty B. Said the club name is positively kind Peeps Values to lift other people up and put a smile on their face. Go around passing out stickers and pins that have kind, happy, uplifting and life affirming messages on them. Be kind. You rock. Don't let the Muggles get you down.

[Eric]

I love that idea for a club. Rachel says for a club name Bibbidi Bobbidi Books and it's a book club. All avid readers welcome. Each month we'd read a book and have a discussion over a shared meal.

[Andrew]

Love that.

[Micah]

Zachary says Bruisers B R E W and the values and mission to offer a safe space to enjoy your favorite drinks, let off some steam and to talk in a safe environment. Everyone needs a place away from the everyday life where they can help and appreciate and lift others up. Talk about sports books, movies, shows all is highly encouraged and members. Anyone with open mind and ears.

[Eric]

Years 6 and up I hope.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Nicole]

Cassandra said Sports Club it's always bugged me that Quidditch involves so few students. Our sports club will set up games of soccer, football, volleyball, track, etc. Members would be Muggle horns who miss the sports they play at home and they'll be the first to join but are welcome but all are welcome to come out and have fun. I feel like that would be funny to think about the Muggle Borns showing non wizard sports to the yeah.

[Andrew]

Wizard Borns like and this is football. Michael Said Savage Students tagline only for Fred and George and people like them. Values Literally none. Basically we break rules not make them members. Fred, George, all the young marauders and peeves. This club is for Umbridge haters only.

[Eric]

Okay, I appreciate that. That's very mischievous. Carly whose surname by the way we're saying it because it comes in comes up here. Carly Poor P O O R e says the group name is Poor Intentions and the Values. Unlike the name, we have nothing but good intentions. We value kindness and generosity. We'd regularly do charity work for fellow witches and wizards in need and do fundraisers for fellow students who paying for their school supplies. Aww.

[Micah]

Kyle says the Squib Club Squibs deserve a place at Hogwarts so I would find a way to invite them to Hogwarts and then start to get them a place at the school. There's no way they shouldn't be allowed to take classes like Muggle Studies, History of Magic and many others.

[Andrew]

It's very nice of you Kyle.

[Eric]

Care of magical creatures. Yeah.

[Nicole]

And Julianne said the Magical Cookery Club with the tagline Helping House elves take a holiday since 1802, she said. Since I'm really into wizards of baking right now, each person would have to bring a magical recipe. One person would do a cooking demonstration per session at key holiday points in the year. They would host an open house and share tasty treats, not just desserts. Love that.

[Andrew]

And finally, Kayla said Title the Chosen ones value to make those who are not often picked first feel included and valued. Every meeting we would learn a new thing, anything from the members. Members would include Ron Neville, Luna, some others I can't think of right now, and Hagrid. The members only eligibility factor is not being chosen from many other clubs. If they're on one or two extracurricular clubs, that's okay. But this is for the people who don't often get chosen for clubs. Good Kayla. I would join that when I was in elementary or middle school. We had more great submissions. Check them all out on our Patreon. Thanks everybody for writing in. It's great reading your suggestions, and the links line is a great way to have your voice heard on the show, whether or not you're listening live. We ask a new question every week. Become a member of our community today by going to patreon.com mugglecast and receiving that, this and many more benefits like Bonus Mugglecast. If you have feedback about today's episode, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to mocast gmail.com or leave a comment on Spotify, YouTube, DMS, whatever's easiest for you. Next week, chapter by chapter continues with Half Blood Prince, Chapter 8 Snape Victorious. Visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media Patreon transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. And if you're looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, Millennial and what the Hype for more pop culture and real world talk. And now it's time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

And this week's question. We were talking about ice cream going out of business. The factory grounds of which famous ice cream company features a flavor graveyard with headstones commemorating each of its retired ice cream flavors that didn't sell well enough. The correct answer was Ben and Jerry's in Waterbury, Vermont, and 83% of people with the correct answer did not look it up. So that's actually a fairly well known thing. The flavor graveyard is a delight. Everyone should check it out. I have been more than one occasion and it's good ice cream. This week's Winners were a healthy breeze, Adeline's magical ice cream cart. Alas, poor Florian, we knew him. Hermione Ben and Jerry give the vibe that they went to Ilvermorny Ben and Jerry Tooth Rotter and the Waffler's Cone Elizabeth K. Jeminio those audiobooks. Gwen Weasley I play Fluffy's harp. Insert witty name here. Mint History of Magic, Narcissa's loser husband, P.B. s' more quid Witch Rebrand Ben and Jamie's Harry Garcia Rock Lobster and shrimp ice cream. The teaspoon that is Ron's emotional range and our friend Tofu Tom. And here is next week's quizzage question. Speaking of the Slug Club and networking, name the author of the wildly successful book how to Win Friends and Influence People, which was initially published in 1936. Fun fact. In 2013, that book was rated number seven, most influential book in American history by the Library of Congress. Have you read it? Anybody here read it?

[Andrew]

Started it but never finished it. I just joined the Bumble BFF app instead to find friends.

[Eric]

Oh yeah, and you got plenty of friends through the podcast, so you don't really need that.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

So submit your answer to us on the Mugglecast website. The quizzic form can be found on there. It's [e-mail] quizzitch and click on kwizzitch on our website on the main nav bar.

[Andrew]

Speaking of friends, thank you to friend of the pod, Nicole for joining us today. We really appreciate all your answers, insight and thanks for helping me review the new Wizarding World Ministry of Magic Land at Epic Universe. It was great seeing you and having you on again.

[Nicole]

Thank you. Anytime.

[Andrew]

Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Nicole]

And I'm Nicole.

[Andrew]

Bye everyone.

[Nicole]

By.

[Micah]

Ram.