Dumbledore's Biggest Secret Ever (HBP Chapter 25, 'The Seer Overheard')

Summary

MuggleCast: Dumbledore's Biggest Secret Ever (HBP Chapter 25, 'The Seer Overheard')

Date: May 13, 2026
Hosts: Andrew, Eric, Micah, Laura

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Episode Overview

This episode of MuggleCast dives deep into Chapter 25 of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (“The Seer Overheard”). The panel analyzes some of the book’s pivotal mysteries, including Dumbledore’s secrets, Snape’s motivations, and the persistent enigma of the Half-Blood Prince’s identity. The hosts also examine Sybill Trelawney’s role as an overlooked seer and discuss the chapter’s foreshadowing of major events to come. Throughout, the discussion is lively and peppered with inside jokes and personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflecting on the Battle of Hogwarts (03:03)

• The episode opens with a nod to the anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts (May 2, 1998).
• Lighthearted commentary about the passage of time since this “fictional” event, with playful reminders of J.K. Rowling’s old tradition of apologizing for character deaths.
  • “28 years ago, this fictional thing happened. Geez.” – Andrew (03:15)

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2. Collector's Club & Fandom Nostalgia (04:06–06:32)

• The group shares news about the MuggleCast Collector’s Club, exclusive stickers, and other Patreon perks.
• Eric introduces the upcoming Bonus MuggleCast segment: a nostalgic revisiting of Potter Puppet Pals videos, cementing the importance of early internet fandom.

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3. The Half-Blood Prince’s Textbook Debate (08:05–11:14)

• Should Harry retrieve the Half-Blood Prince's Potions book from the Room of Requirement?
  • Andrew believes Harry learned his lesson and should reclaim it for academic advantage.
    • “I don't see why he shouldn't go and retrieve it...He learned his lesson, don't do unknown spells on people.” – Andrew (09:04)
  • Eric and Laura argue Harry hasn’t earned his Potions success, and the book is dangerous and tainted by its creator.
    • “He should realize that it's not just what was in the book, but it's the person behind the book that's the problem.” – Eric (09:22)
  • Hermione’s warnings about shortcuts and cheating are reaffirmed.

Notable Quote:

“Did he learn nothing about the dangers of using a book like this to his advantage? Clearly not.” – Laura (10:14)

• Discord poll: Listener votes nearly split on whether Harry should reclaim the book (21:24).

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4. Snape, Sectumsempra, and Trauma (11:29–12:34)

• Discussion shifts to how Snape’s trauma and bullying influenced his creation of Sectumsempra.
  • The spell is characterized as “a friend who would look out for him in times of danger,” highlighting Snape’s loneliness.
    • “This spell is his Ron or his Hermione or Neville, you know, like someone to stand up to his enemies.” – Andrew (11:54)
  • The panel connects Snape’s spell creation to themes of pain, self-defense, and the ongoing Slytherin symbolism.

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5. The Identity of the Half-Blood Prince (13:31–19:52)

• Hermione uncovers a newspaper clipping about Eileen Prince, suspected by her as the Half-Blood Prince.
  • Harry rejects the idea, displaying unconscious bias and gender assumptions.
    • “Harry really doesn't think that there's any way that the Half Blood Prince could be a woman.” – Micah (13:31)
    • “You can always just tell. I feel like Hermione presents a very valid argument…” – Eric (14:29)
  • The group unpacks why Harry identifies more with the Prince and how gender bias colors his reasoning.
    • “The Prince is his friend…this secret friend of mine in this book couldn't be a girl. It just comes across that way to me.” – Eric (17:10)
  • Laura notes the heavy-handed physical resemblance between Eileen Prince and Snape.
    • “The description of her, she sounds like a dead ringer for her son.” – Laura (18:54)
  • Panel emphasizes this is Rowling’s reminder to the reader that the Prince’s identity must still be solved by the book’s end.

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6. Why Would Snape Leave His Book Behind? (20:04–21:11)

• Debate on the plausibility of meticulous Snape leaving his annotated Potions book behind.
  • Laura suggests nuance: Maybe it was intentional, or perhaps carelessness for a larger purpose.
    • “Maybe he wanted it found like Voldemort.” – Eric (20:40)

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7. Hermione’s Detective Work & Parallels to Chamber of Secrets (21:13–23:01)

• The hosts draw parallels between Hermione’s investigative efforts here and her solving of the Chamber of Secrets mystery.
  • “For Hermione…it's actually written, right. On a piece of parchment that she has clasped in her hand. She is beginning to unravel the identity of the Half Blood Prince.” – Micah (22:15)
• Praises Hermione’s tireless research abilities in a pre-digital world.

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8. Professor Trelawney, Divination & Cassandra Parallels (23:53–33:08)

• Discussion moves to Trelawney’s unlucky position at Hogwarts and her latest prophecy.
  • The group debates why no one (including Dumbledore) takes her seriously—her reputation as “the boy who cried wolf.”
    • “She is kind of the boy who cried wolf… that’s the reason that nobody takes her seriously because she’s constantly making all of these death predictions.” – Laura (26:47)
  • Trelawney’s lineage is compared to Cassandra of Greek myth: accurate predictions that are ignored.
    • “Trelawney is supposedly a descendant of the great seer Cassandra…fated to accurately predict the future but have nobody believe her.” – Micah (30:20)
  • Eric explains the symbolism of the Tarot “Tower” card—foreboding catastrophe, forced change, and the book’s themes.
    • “The Tower…does represent exactly what Trelawney is saying. Chaos and destruction. It’s sudden upheaval, unexpected change…you will realize that… it has made you into the person you are.” – Eric (32:03)
  • Laura suggests the Tarot reading is for Harry as much as for Dumbledore, emphasizing how the prophecy will transform Harry.

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9. Dumbledore’s Fate & Foreshadowing (33:35–35:22)

• The panel revisits their own memories (or lack thereof) of reading Half-Blood Prince for the first time and the foreshadowing of Dumbledore’s death.
  • “Going all the way back to his blackened hand at the start of the book. Like he’s clearly marked for death.” – Micah (35:22)
• Discussion of chapter titles (“The White Tomb”) as hints of major character deaths.

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10. The Real Secret: Snape and the Prophecy (35:39–41:01)

• The pivotal event: Trelawney reveals to Harry that Snape was the eavesdropper who heard the prophecy.
• The panel explores whether this is Dumbledore’s biggest secret held back from Harry.
  • “Is this the biggest secret that Dumbledore has kept from Harry all these years?” – Micah (36:08)
  • “Absolutely. Yes. The single digestion.” – Eric (36:13)
• Dumbledore’s choice, secrecy, and Snape’s remorse unpacked.
  • “He knows he's going to die. There's no alternative. This is it.” – Andrew (29:06)
• The group speculates logistics of how much Snape actually heard and the nature of Dumbledore's selective honesty.
• Harry is left questioning Snape's allegiance and motivation, while the hosts note Dumbledore's manipulative orchestration to delay revelations until “the right moment.”
  • “It wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore was just always going to kind of omit that information, at least until they won the war.” – Laura (40:23)

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11. Hogwarts Security, Trust, and Felix Felicis (41:01–44:56)

• Harry’s continued concern about Draco’s activities and Hogwarts’ safety, especially as he and Dumbledore prepare to leave on their quest for the Horcrux.
  • “It sounds like Harry’s the only one doing some MRFing investigative journalist…The only one caring about this huge breach and violation of Hogwarts security.” – Eric (42:21)
• Dumbledore’s supposed confidence in school security, while Harry takes matters into his own hands, leaving Felix Felicis with Ron, Hermione, and Ginny.
  • “Despite Dumbledore’s convictions that Hogwarts is firmly secure in his absence, Harry takes it upon himself and arms Hermione and Ron with Felix Felicis and gives them direction really to defend the school.” – Micah (43:56)

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12. Memorable Moments & Listener Interaction

• Discord Poll: “Should Harry retrieve the Half-Blood Prince’s Potions textbook?” was nearly split (21:24).
• Funny aside: “She was not pretty. She looked simultaneously cross and sullen, with heavy brows and a long, pallid face.” – Laura quoting Harry’s description of Eileen Prince (18:54).
• Running joke about Snape's hygiene: “Well, if he washed his hair every once in a while, took care of himself.” – Eric (19:06)
• Lynx Line (Audience Question): “You’re Harry and see Snape after learning he overheard the prophecy. What happens?”
  • “I would just say you killed my parents and see what he says.” – Eric (45:56)
  • “So read my mind now, bitch.” – Micah (46:20)
  • “At least there was an undo option for when I cast Sectumsempra...You got my parents deleted. Permanently. Screw you.” – Laura (46:27)
  • Listener Carly: “I’d say absolutely nothing. I would think about it constantly whenever I was around him and let him read it from my mind as I stared daggers at him.” (47:15)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “This spell is his Ron or his Hermione or Neville, you know, like someone to stand up to his enemies.” – Andrew (11:54)
• “Harry really doesn't think that there’s any way that the Half Blood Prince could be a woman.” – Micah (13:31)
• “I feel like Hermione presents a very valid argument…if her dad was a wizard and her mom was a Muggle, she’d be a Half Blood Prince.” – Eric (14:29)
• “28 years ago, this fictional thing happened. Geez.” – Andrew (03:15)
• “She is kind of the boy who cried wolf.” – Laura (26:47)
• “The Tower…does represent exactly what Trelawney is saying. Chaos and destruction. It’s sudden upheaval, unexpected change…you will realize that… it has made you into the person you are.” – Eric (32:03)
• “Is this the biggest secret that Dumbledore has kept from Harry all these years?” – Micah (36:08)
• “Absolutely. Yes. The single digestion.” – Eric (36:13)
• “It wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore was just always going to kind of omit that information, at least until they won the war.” – Laura (40:23)

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Important Timestamps

• [08:05] – Debate on retrieving the Half-Blood Prince’s book
• [11:29] – Reflection on Snape’s trauma and spell invention
• [13:31] – Hermione’s discovery of Eileen Prince
• [18:54] – Eileen Prince’s resemblance to Snape
• [20:04] – Why would Snape leave his book?
• [22:15] – Parallels to Chamber of Secrets and Hermione’s detective skills
• [23:53] – Trelawney, Cassandra, and being ignored
• [29:06] – Trelawney’s Lightning-Struck Tower prophecy
• [35:39] – The secret of Snape overhearing the prophecy
• [41:01] – Security at Hogwarts & Felix Felicis plan
• [45:44] – Lynx Line: confronting Snape post-revelation

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Conclusion & Looking Ahead

The hosts wrap up the discussion by highlighting the mounting tension as Harry sets off with Dumbledore, with clear foreshadowing of tragedy and upheaval. They tease next week’s deep-dive into Half-Blood Prince Chapter 26: "The Cave." Fan interaction and engagement are celebrated through lively polls and the Lynx Line responses, keeping the community spirit of MuggleCast strong.

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Final Takeaway

This episode delivers a thoughtful, humorous, and layered examination of one of Half-Blood Prince’s most important chapters, exploring trust, secrecy, trauma, prophecy, and the ways the adults in Harry’s life shape (and limit) what he knows. It’s a must-listen for anyone wanting to dig beneath the surface of Rowling’s penultimate book.

Transcript

[Eric]

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[Eric]

Done.

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Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

[Laura]

And this is Harry's interpretation. He says she was not pretty. She looked simultaneously cross and sullen, with heavy brows and a long pallid face.

[Andrew]

What was also killing me is Laura calling out that it says she was not pretty. Are you saying Snape's not pretty? We can't say that anymore, apparently, because now there's.

[Eric]

Well, if he washed his hair every once in a while, took care of himself.

[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And we're your Harry Potter friends, gathering here to talk about the books and the movies and the TV show. If you don't already, make sure you follow us in your podcast app and you'll never miss an episode. And this week, don't talk to your Divination professor when she's had a few too many because we're discussing chapter 25 of Half Blood Prince. The Seer overheard. We are recording. I have to let everybody know on Saturday, May 2, it is the anniversary of the Battle of Hogwarts. Pour one out. Micah. This was your note, wasn't it? You jump in here.

[Micah]

No, you're Doing a great job.

[Andrew]

Do you guys remember when J.K. rowling would apologize for the death of one character on the anniversary about Hogwarts? Yeah, she doesn't do that anymore.

[Micah]

Well, she's got a lot more now. I just apologize for now.

[Eric]

I'll be waiting.

[Laura]

Yeah, not going to happen.

[Andrew]

So we pour one out for those that we lost on that fateful day many moons ago.

[Micah]

1998.

[Andrew]

98. Wow. Feels like it was just yesterday.

[Eric]

I remember. 1998.

[Micah]

28 years ago. Oh, my gosh.

[Eric]

Stop. Stop at all. Cease and desist.

[Andrew]

28 years ago, this fictional thing happened. Geez. Well, in brighter news, we have some exciting news. Year five of the Mugglecast Collectors Club is here. So if you're like Slughorn, you like collecting, this is the opportunity for you. You can receive six exclusive Mugglecast stickers by joining us on Patreon. That's patreon.com mocast these stickers can go on the custom Collectors Club card that Eric is holding up right now. We released this a few years ago. There will be an opportunity next year to grab this Collector's Club card. It's really nice, but you can get this year's stickers. Now, obviously, you can put these stickers wherever you want. This year's designs. I love these designs. They've got, like, spring pastels going on, in my opinion. Yeah. Yes.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Anna really pulled out all the stops on these. They're my favorite year yet.

[Andrew]

I really agree with that. Year five is strong. So here are the six stickers. Normally we do five. We got six this year. Laura's pants make the music connection. One that has a typewriter with a page that just says Scar Max that always. And a Muggle mail sticker. Y' all have to check these out. This is a fun collector's program for people who love Mugglecast. Previous year's stickers will be available next year if you missed out on those. So it's not too late to grab this year's stickers and then still enjoy the full collection. The form is open now, so sign up by June 10, 2026, and we'll get these stickers out to you shortly thereafter. The Collector's Club is just one of many benefits, including a second physical gift every year. If you're a Slug Club patron, you'll receive this by pledging at patreon.com mugglecast don't forget, we have annual discounts to save you a little money if you pledge for a year up front. And you can gift memberships so Maybe you want a membership for your birthday. You can ask a loved one to hook you up. Coming up in Bonus Mugglecast. You have a nostalgic idea for us, Eric, right?

[Eric]

Oh, yes. We are going to be looking at Potter Puppet Pals. We've committed at the beginning of the year to doing look forwards and look backs. And a topic that I think has only ever been mentioned on Mugglecast is how much we enjoy these old web videos which started off in a pre YouTube era and are now all on YouTube. Potter Puppet Pals was an essential part of the Harry Potter fandom. If you were a Harry Potter fan and you did not see the Potter Puppet Pals latest, you were. You were actually excluded from some social spaces. So it's wonderful. It's a good thing that they're good. And we're going to be reacting to five of such videos in Bonus Mugglecast. So that's going to be a lot of fun. I don't certainly as rarely as we have ever talked about them on the show. I know for a fact I've never been in the same room or digital studio as you guys while watching them. And that's the appeal to me.

[Andrew]

And honestly, I never really watched these videos back in the day. So I'm looking forward to diving in. Oh, Mike. And you.

[Eric]

Oh my.

[Laura]

Really?

[Micah]

I've seen them live. Maybe didn't they attend a lot of conventions over the years?

[Eric]

Live is incredible.

[Laura]

It's a real life.

[Eric]

It's a real life puppet show. They have to coordinate when people are coming up and it's unbelievable. Blows my mind. I could never. I could never.

[Andrew]

All right, well, without further ado, it's time to discuss Half blood prince chapter 25, the seer overheard, which we last

[Eric]

discussed way back on Mugglecast 416, which was titled Not Sorry for May 6, 2019. Here is a clip from our pensive segment.

[Laura]

What you're looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected. It is from Magukas episode 416.

[Eric]

So Harry's really super interested in this idea. That or the Trelawney says she heard somebody whooping. Whooping, like woo.

[Andrew]

Whooping, I guess is how I whoop.

[Eric]

Yeah, whoop. Whoop.

[Andrew]

Doesn't sound like a noise Draco would make, but okay.

[Laura]

I know. I just imagine him in there, like whoop.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

I would picture him more like a like Bowser from Mario being happy.

[Micah]

Well, especially after what's just happened to him. He's no physical condition to be whooping.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah. Doesn't it hurt the diaphragm that he just got severed from the Satan separate spell.

[Laura]

This memory is everything.

[Micah]

I love that you can hear the seasonal allergies in the.

[Eric]

This. It was recorded in the month of May, just like this one. So some things never change.

[Micah]

All right, well, let's discuss this chapter again and want to start out talking about Hermione and how she begins to unravel the Prince's identity. It's one of the big pieces of this chapter really. But first, speaking of the Half Blood Prince, Harry is contemplating retrieving the book from the Room of Requirement. And I'm curious, what do we make of this? It's been a. It's probably been what, a couple weeks, maybe even a couple months since the Sectum Sempra attack. So I mean, my personal feeling is, look, Harry made a mistake. Granted it was a very large mistake, but we're talking about one word, Sectum Sempera, in a book that has otherwise guided him through the entirety of his sixth year, at least as it relates to Potions. And I know we were gonna debate this a little bit, right?

[Andrew]

Well, yeah, I, I don't see why he shouldn't go and retrieve it. He's only been separated from the book because of Snape and in his mind that is not a good reason to continue to be separated from it. And he learned his lesson, don't do unknown spells on people. He even acknowledges that in this chapter.

[Eric]

Well, I, yes, but I wouldn't call him fully rehabilitated. I, I think he should leave the book where it is. I feel like the Sectum Sempra, apart from being just like a one off incident, was actually the culmination of everything Hermione has been saying to Harry all year. That he's cheating, that he's not getting it on merit, he's learned nothing about Potions. In fact, when Ron praises the Prince for. Oh, thanks for the beezer. Harry should have known that from day one, year one in Potions. The fact that Harry has been able to skate by on a utter lack of Potions. Nonsense. Knowledge is nonsense. And he should realize that it's not just what was in the book, but it's the person behind the book that's the problem. The person that would write something like that in the pages of a book for enemies. Vaguely. And Harry would try it. So I think he should leave it where it is.

[Laura]

I think so too. I mean, Snape is also onto him. And Harry knows that Snape can read his mind. So why Would he think just because it's been a couple of months that he would be in the clear to go and get that book? Also, like, did he learn nothing from speaking of connecting the threads back to Chamber of Secrets, did he learn nothing about the dangers of using a book like this to his advantage? Clearly not well.

[Eric]

And he has such perfect cover because he's been dating Ginny these past few years or for a few first few weeks. And Slughorn just assumes that his dropping performance in Potions is due to being distracted and lovesick, which I just love. It's the perfect cover, Harry. Just write it.

[Micah]

So it seems like we have a little bit of a split panel here. Maybe we should drop a poll in the Discord and let them decide.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Whether or not Harry should or should not go and retrieve this book.

[Eric]

Should Harry go back to cheating and not earning his way in his class. You weigh in in our poll in our Discord.

[Laura]

I'm making it.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Micah]

Also wanted to use the opportunity to discuss though we talked a little bit about this on the last episode, but I don't really think we got into it how bullied Snape must have been to create this spell in the first place. It's not just a spell that you cast and it does minor injury. This is something that could have killed Draco had Snape not been present to heal him.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And to me that made me realize this point, makes me realize that this spell was almost kind of like his friend who would look out for him in times of danger. Like this spell is his Ron or his Hermione or Neville, you know, like someone to stand up to his enemies.

[Eric]

I can definitely imagine being just so bullied and hurt and alone that you devise something like this and you fantasize about using it on your enemies and it evens the score. Yeah. Whoever invented this spell was not in a great place for sure. So it does give some more insight into Snape's well being, I guess.

[Micah]

Definitely. And somebody last week mentioned how in Chamber of Secrets it's Draco who casts serpent Sortia. And then obviously we have Harry in the last chapter casting Sectumsempra. One further thread to connect is that they're both spells that kind of have double S's, which I thought was kind of interesting.

[Laura]

I love that.

[Micah]

Yeah. Taking the.

[Eric]

You know who else had a double S?

[Micah]

Salazar Slytherin. Slytherin.

[Laura]

Well, and I just think too, I mean, maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but thinking about the serpentine connection here, I mean, obviously you have A snake. And you think of a snake with its fangs. The slashes that Draco gets from Sectum Sempera, I think are representative of that kind of wound that a large snake could inflict. So it's very interesting.

[Micah]

Yeah. So Hermione is on the job as, as always. She's, she's the one who's doing all the hard work behind the scenes. And she discovers an old newspaper clipping featuring one Eileen Prince, who was captain of the Hogwarts Gobstones team back in the day. And there's some reaction here from Harry in particular at first, and I think maybe it's a little bit of unconscious bias coming through without him realizing it. Harry really doesn't think that there's any way that the Half Blood Prince could be a woman. And then furthermore, once he sees what Eileen Prince looks like, he, he basically says, well, and then there's no way that it could be that woman. And Harry just knows inherently in his bones that it's a bloke. And I'm quoting him.

[Eric]

You can, you can just tell. You can just tell. Okay. You can always just tell. I feel like Hermione presents a very valid argument, which is that if her dad was a wizard and her mom was a Muggle, she'd be a Half Blood Prince. It's like literally, that's look no further. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. And Harry's just convinced I, I, I think there's some level of like, misogyny here that comes through. Maybe not like the most conscious thing in the world. I'm not saying Harry is like a super asshole, but he again, is says to Hermione, I, I just know it could not be this woman. And it's just like, why not?

[Andrew]

Well, okay. And I, I, one reason that I understand where Harry is coming from here is because historically, men are more violent people. Like, is a woman gonna come up with sectum sempra? It just seems out of character for a woman.

[Micah]

Fair.

[Eric]

So it's such an offensive spell.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But that said, outside of that, Harry doesn't exactly have a case to stand on here.

[Laura]

No, I mean, and again, I, I think there probably is some level of unconscious bias going on here. I mean, everybody carries that within them to an extent, so it's not to crap on Harry for that. But he's probably picking up on different context clues, like looking at the handwriting that's in the book and making an assumption that he thinks the handwriting looks like a man's handwriting, which he's correct about ultimately, although, you know, not all women have beautiful, fluffy handwriting the way that sometimes you see portrayed. I myself am one of those women who does not have beautiful handwriting. So always exceptions to the rule. Right. But I think also just Harry's probably reading into the way the Prince's notes are written and picking up on just context, clue indicators of the gender of this person. And I think Harry's also projecting, I think that he sees a lot of himself in the Prince. And I think he's been able to view the Prince as like somewhat of a mirror to make him feel more clever than he actually is when it comes to Potions as a subject matter. Which is so funny when we think about the theory that a lot of the fandom has had that, hey, we know Harry's mom was good at Potions. We also know that she and Snape were buddy, buddy. Who's to say that Lily didn't have any influence on the work that Snape did here?

[Eric]

So just interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think too, that with Harry, he's. The Prince is his friend and Hermione's. Hermione's the only girl that he could ever call his friend. So I think he feels an attachment to the Prince. And when I, when I say that Harry is, like, kind of misogynist here, it's because, like, this, this secret friend of mine in this book couldn't be a girl. It just comes across that way to me where it's like he's got this friendship or he's feeling this kinship, or to your point, Lar, like he looks up to or feels a kinship with which there's no reason he should. The Prince is competent and he is not impotent. So he shouldn't, you know, feel any relation to this, this, this Prince. But, but he does. And I, I think there's this, this just this history where, because he's gotten that, that sort of connection and he feels a connection toward the Prince, he just assumes it's a bloke.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah. Something else I want to call out here, though. I mean, first of all, we just. Eric, you were talking about the whole, hey, this person might have been proud to be half a Prince. And Hermione's totally right. She's wrong about who the Prince is, but the justification behind the nickname, she's spot on. Right. But I thought it was so interesting that Harry completely overlooks Eileen Prince because in my opinion, the description of her, she sounds like a dead ringer for her son. And this is Harry's interpretation He says she was not pretty. She looked simultaneously cross and sullen, with heavy brows and a long, pallid face.

[Eric]

Pallid. There's a million dollar descriptor.

[Andrew]

What was also killing me is Laura calling out that it says she was not pretty. Are you saying Snape's not pretty? We can't say that anymore, apparently, because now there's.

[Eric]

Well, if he washed his hair every once in a while, took care of himself.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

The other thing too is that this is just to remind the reader, because this is a very small part of this chapter that we still need to uncover who the Half Blood Prince is before we get to the end of this book. I mean, it's. It's in the title, right?

[Andrew]

Yeah. And that's the other thing. I wish I remembered what I was thinking back reading this for the first time, because clearly it's a significant character if the book is titled the Half Blood Prince, you know, so.

[Laura]

Right.

[Andrew]

Like reading this part, you get to Eileen Prince, you're like, it can't be. Unless Eileen Prince is going to have some huge role in the next book. It just. It doesn't make sense for it to be Eileen.

[Micah]

Similar to you, though. I. I can't recall thinking that it was Snape. But it's just so obvious. It's now Potions at the end of the day. Yeah.

[Laura]

And.

[Eric]

Right. Harry. Not only that, Harry has to recall where he got the book. He got it from a cabinet and in a classroom. And who inhabited that classroom for like a dozen years? Snape. It just. It's so easily explained as Snape left the book there, maybe unintentionally.

[Laura]

That's also something that has always kind of bothered me about this story because that just feels like such an unsnaped thing to do for someone who is so meticulous to leave something like that lying around so easily accessible to students sometimes.

[Eric]

Maybe he wanted it found like Voldemort.

[Laura]

Well, to be honest, sometimes I wonder, like, was he trying to have it be found by someone? I don't know if he wanted Harry to find it.

[Eric]

Right.

[Laura]

But you know.

[Andrew]

No, you're right, because we've been trying. We've been kind of talking about this from time to time during this reread. Why the hell was that book just sitting around? I don't think it's ever explained.

[Micah]

He likes donating to Hogwarts.

[Andrew]

Oh, sure.

[Eric]

He's sick of teaching the usual batch of Dunderheads, so he wants to provide special help to.

[Micah]

Has Advanced Potion not been updated since the time that Snape was at Hogwarts. That's the other piece of this.

[Laura]

I do just want to call out the results of our poll thus far. Should Harry retrieve the Half Blood Princess Potions textbook from the Room of Requirement? So far we have five yes votes and six no votes.

[Andrew]

So I'm surprised.

[Laura]

Pretty much neck and neck.

[Eric]

You're on thin ice. Thin ice. Discord. I was about to say. I can never go in here.

[Laura]

Now we're down to four yes votes. Somebody changed who unvoted?

[Micah]

I did. Because I can't vote twice.

[Eric]

Oh, okay.

[Micah]

Right. I mean, unless we're all going to vote in the poll.

[Andrew]

I voted.

[Laura]

I voted.

[Micah]

Oh, okay.

[Eric]

All right, we're back to five.

[Laura]

Okay, five. 5v6. Come on, no crowd. Bring us. Bring us home. Bring us to the win.

[Eric]

Come on.

[Micah]

No, it's even now.

[Laura]

Damn it.

[Micah]

You have to do a recount.

[Laura]

Stop the count.

[Micah]

Redistrict.

[Andrew]

Stop the count.

[Micah]

All right, well, one other note on this part of the chapter. I did want to connect the threads because for Hermione, much like how she discovers the monster in Chamber of Secrets, it's actually written, right. On a piece of parchment that she has clasped in her hand. She is beginning to unravel the identity of the Half Blood Prince. Not a coincidence, I don't think.

[Eric]

You know how difficult it must have been for Hermione to find the word Prince. To find somebody named Prince without Google, without, like, any idea of where to look, what she's up, like, looking at these previous daily profits like it's. She's in the stacks just, like, for hours a day. It's. And. And like, for whose benefit? She's not seeking glory here. She's trying to help out her friend.

[Micah]

Yeah, she is definitely on top of her game. Unlike Harry right now. But Harry does get a invitation to come to Dumbledore's office and we are going to head there right after this break.

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[Micah]

All right, well, we are on our way to Dumbledore's office, but we have somebody who we're about to run into in Professor Trelawney and she offers up some pretty important information and what I love about this is we were just talking about the identity of the Half Blood Prince and then moments later get a revelation about Severus Snape. Yeah and it's, it's probably and we'll talk about this the, the biggest piece of information that Dumbledore keeps from Harry. But before that she seems like she's pretty miffed at Dumbledore and I'm wondering the prophecy that's all been put out there at the end of Order of the Phoenix Voldemort now knows. Harry now knows. Does Dumbledore just not have time for Sibyl anymore?

[Andrew]

He doesn't have time for anybody anymore. I do find it disappointing that a professor at Hogwarts wouldn't want to tell the headmaster that she was forcibly kicked out of the room requirement no matter her feelings on Dumbledore but because she's duty bound to Hogwarts, not Dumbledore. So she shouldn't keep this quiet just because Dumbledore doesn't want to hear from me. It is weird that somebody presumably a child or a student kicked you out of the room of Requirement and you're just letting it go.

[Eric]

Yeah, I mean that's assault on a teacher. That's gotta probably have a pretty hefty punishment at Hogwarts but you know at the end of the day kids suck sometimes and anyone crazy enough to again assault a teacher is probably is she probably just doesn't want to make it worse. She's like well that shocked me and hurt me but I'm fine, I'm gonna walk away. That is a value like valid option for her. But I also wonder because if she did like file a report the question becomes what were you doing there you know, in the first place? And so this is the problem with sort of maybe she's embarrassed about the fact that she was kind of taking her extra sherry bottle stash to the room at the time she was thrown out and so she doesn't want extra eyes on her or face additional scrutiny because that's maybe what would happen if she did file a report but that's

[Andrew]

not anybody's business what she's doing there because she's an adult.

[Eric]

It's not. No and it's not and it's not fair and it's not fair but it a hundred percent, you know if, if anyone other than Dumbledore were in charge Dumbledore just gonna ignore her anyway thank you. Simple play, you know they would definitely be asking Those types of questions in order to get the most full picture of what was happening.

[Laura]

I think unfortunately for Sybil, however unfair this is, she is kind of the boy who cried wolf. And I think that's the.

[Eric]

I love that.

[Laura]

Yeah. That's the reason that nobody takes her seriously because she's constantly making all of these death predictions. It's why when she says stuff about like my cards showing the lightning struck tower, nobody cares because she comes up with this crap all the time that doesn't come to fruition. And yeah, she gets bullied by the students quite a bit, which is unfair. But she also regularly singles out a student, at least in each of her classes and tells them that they're going to die. Don't we hear that from McGonagall in book three where she's like, oh, which one of you is going to die this year? You know, so she, unfortunately for her, she has a reputation that disadvantages her. It's like self inflicted, you know.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's true a bit.

[Micah]

I do think though, it says something about Dumbledore as well in terms of how we should look at him as a character because here's somebody who he was all about protecting, not just in Order of the Phoenix, but since the prophecy was made and now seemingly he's got other things on his mind, Horcruxes in particular, and how to go about destroying as many as possible before he meets his untimely end. But it just kind of speaks to the chess master personality type that we've talked about him having on so many episodes. And now here it is where Trelawney is just not of any use to him anymore. I think that's also what this comes down to.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Speaking of the lightning.

[Micah]

Oh, go ahead.

[Laura]

I was gonna say I think that he feels like it's like a box checked. Right. Trelawney's still at Hogwarts, so she's safe. Right. So the quality of her time at Hogwarts is a little bit of less concern. I think we can compare that as well to what Dumbledore says about sending Harry to live with the Dursleys where he's like, yeah, you know, you, you were a little skinnier than I would have hoped for. You know, you dealt with some abuse there, but at least you were alive.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And on the lightning struck tower, the line from Trelawney is if Dumbledore chooses to ignore the warnings, the cards show again and again, no matter how I lay them out. Calamity, disaster coming nearer all the time. And sure, we're talking about how, you know, it's hard to believe her. So she says something like this and people are thinking, oh, there goes Trelawney again. But she is very certain here. And I think her reading is reflective of how certain Dumbledore is of this plan that's in place. He knows he's going to die. There's no alternative. This is it. And I think, you know, this is a reminder that she is occasionally a good seer, but maybe only in instances when. When death is certain and huge and it's a big target she can't miss.

[Eric]

She's a great seer, but she's doomed to never know it. And, and maybe that's a good point. Like, Dumbledore is not like, I agree 100% that Trelawney is 100% the boy who cried wolf and that nobody can believe her. But maybe in the case of Dumbledore, it's not that he doesn't believe her or can't trust that what she says is true. He knows it and is just. There's nothing he can do about it. You know, like, he. She's not telling him anything he doesn't know, and so he can say, I don't really need you here.

[Micah]

I think she is a treasure trove of information, as we're about to find out, but she's just overlooked as well. Yeah, she's a bit of the boy who cried wolf, but she's also, unfortunately, because of that, not taken as seriously as she should be. And I like what you said earlier, Eric, because Trelawney is supposedly a descendant of the great seer Cassandra, who in Greek mythology was fated to accurately predict the future but have nobody believe her. And Trelawney definitely has a lot of that going on. But I do also want to have, Eric, you. You call out here that the tower is a real card in Tarot.

[Eric]

That's exactly right. And I'm trying to find my tarot of it, too, because I. I do have some decks of Tarot cards. They're very fun.

[Micah]

And while you're looking too, I mean, the tower does get referenced a number of times throughout the series and. And I should have probably tried to find them all, but there are references to being thrown off the tower.

[Eric]

And I think, top of the Astronomy tower, and I'll jump off.

[Micah]

See, like the Weasley twins at one point make a reference to it, something like that.

[Andrew]

I can't wait to pitch my exciting universal theme park ride during that chapter, by the way, when we discuss it

[Eric]

in a few weeks, that's going to be great. Make it like it. Yeah, yeah. It still needs to happen. But yes, the tower in Tarot is part of the major arcana and it does represent exactly what Trelawney is saying. Chaos and destruction. It's sudden upheaval, unexpected change. If anybody knows how this book ends in a few short chapters that matches it perfectly. And this is from the tarotguide.com the description here, the change is usually scary, life changing and often unavoidable. A negative tower event can be akin to a bomb going off in your life. You don't know how you will survive, but somehow you will. And later you will realize that while it was a tremendously difficult thing to go through and you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy, it has made you into the person you are. One positive aspect of the Tower, because no one card is evil or bad, is that the destruction it brings is usually directed at something that was built on a false belief or foundation or unrealistic goals and dreams. So Dumbledore is not going to always be there to save young Harry Potter. And the more that we realize like D like Deathly Hallows is all about deconstructing Dumbledore. He's based on a false premise or lie. He's imperfect.

[Laura]

You know what I love about this? I think, you know, if you do a surface level reading, you could interpret that this card Trelawney pulled is for Dumbledore because of what happens to him. But Eric, based on this description of what the tower represents, it's, I would say it's actually for Harry.

[Eric]

Yeah, she's inches away from Harry. So even if she keeps pulling this card, the fun thing would be like it means something different every time.

[Micah]

Well, speaking of Dumbledore, do we remember because I know we always remember things that happened 21 years ago, but do we remember reading for the this for the first time and not feeling good about Dumbledore's chances Heading into the last few chapters of this book, I don't remember at all.

[Eric]

Wish I could remember if at what point I became spoiled because I would. I was not spoiled before I picked up the book, but I remember reading Order of the Phoenix for the first time and at some point I just flipped the pages to the end to where I got to all caps Harry. And then that was how I found out Sirius was gonna die. So I spent my very first read through of book five knowing that it was leading to Sirius's death. And it softened the blow a little bit. Obviously it still hurt Sirius, but I'M wondering if I did the same for Dumbledore. If I knew, like, if I. Because I. A habit I would get into when I would first open a Harry Potter book for the first time was I would read all the chapter titles at the table of contents that started the book.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And so the White Tomb. Yeah, the White Tomb as a chapter title might have piqued my interest. And I. I knew since I've been working on the name origin section of Mugglenet for a few years at that point that albus means white. So I might have guessed that Dumbledore was going to die. I can't remember ever feeling like a tremendous sense of foreboding but it's still a shocking death when it comes.

[Laura]

Yeah, I think it's one of those things where, like, at the time, I don't think I had an inkling of it. But in retrospect, especially rereading it as many times as we have, it's really clear that this is where this is going.

[Micah]

Oh, yeah. I mean, going all the way back to his blackened hand at the start of the book. Like he's clearly marked for death. Exactly.

[Eric]

Where the hell is my tower? Did one of you guys take my tower? I'm still going through my cards here. I can't find my tower. I guess I have no sudden upheaval to worry about.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, the. The biggest piece of information I think that we take from this chapter. Harry and Trelawney get chit chatting on the way to Dumbledore's office.

[Eric]

And if you can call it that,

[Micah]

Trelawney is in her cups. She's probably had a little bit of sherry and by a little, I mean a lot. And it let slip that Snape overheard the prophecy and.

[Eric]

Unbelievable.

[Micah]

I want to know, is this the biggest secret that Dumbledore has kept from Harry all these years?

[Eric]

Yes, the biggest. Absolutely. Yes. The single digestion.

[Micah]

You know there's a doozy coming in. Deathly Hallows.

[Andrew]

Well, you're gonna say that one.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

All right. All right, Laura, get on that poll because I'm talking about this. I feel like, okay, the whole you must die thing. Harry knows that. Harry to some extent already knows it. This is what the previous chapter was about, the discussion. And Harry's like, oh, it made all the difference in the world to know that I could go with my head held high. He has known or figured that he will have to kill Voldemort or Voldemort will have to come kill him for several years now. And the surprise then at the Very, very end during the Prince's tale where it's confirmed that the reason Voldemort has to kill him is because Harry is possessing some portion of Voldemort's soul. Unexpectedly, is only a little bit of extra knowledge added on to what Harry already assumes. But the revelation that this teacher that he has thrust in front of, that he has had to put up with for seven years of schooling, or at least the first six, was the person most responsible for directly for the murder of his parents. His subsequent orphaning, all the abuse we just talked about that Harry witnessed at Privet Drive, it all goes back to Snape. The fact that this personal relationship or this connection was kept from Harry and Harry was not pulled out of Snape's classes or Harry didn't have alternate potions to you like, yeah, this is a problem. Yeah, there's a problem, right?

[Andrew]

And Dumbledore does say, and I kind of take this as foreshadowing. Dumbledore says to Harry, you have no idea of the remorse Professor Snape thinks felt when he realized how Lord Voldemort had really sorry the prophecy said he's so interpreted is the key word here, though, because I think what this is hinting at is that Snape did have feelings for Lily. And of course we'll find that out in the next book. But Harry in this moment doesn't consider what he interpreted tore him up so much. Like, what part of that. Why is it the interpretation that's bothering Snape so much?

[Eric]

It doesn't matter.

[Micah]

Well, and he doesn't hear the full prophecy either.

[Eric]

Correct, Correct.

[Laura]

Yeah, he doesn't. He does not know who it refers to, which I think Dumbledore also mentions here. But yeah, I think to Harry's credit, Harry's like, okay, so he was cool with somebody getting killed. That's also a problem.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, that is also a problem. Good point. Also, I'm wondering logistically how this works. Snape gets apprehended by Aberforth, right? So they're above the Hogshead in like the individual rooms. Snape is hearing the prophecy. Aberforth sees him spying at the gaol, pulls him up. But here's the thing, he distracts Snape from hearing the rest of the prophecy. But the prophecy is still happening, right? Because I highly doubt like, like Sybil is coming too. When she sees that Snape has been apprehended and Aberforth says to Albus, something like, found this one. You know, something skulking around. If you interrupt the prophecy, though, she goes out of prophecy making mode. Right. So she would have had to have finished.

[Andrew]

She did finish. I guess maybe Aberforth quietly pulled him away.

[Eric]

I, I and was like, what are you doing? And it was just enough of like a distraction so he couldn't hear the rest.

[Andrew]

Like, it also sounds like Dumbledore was considering what to share with this with Harry in this scene, by the way, because, you know, yes, this is a big revelation. And Harry is shocked. And Harry says, how can you be sure Snape's on our side? And then the passage reads, Dumbledore did not speak for a moment. He looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. Was he debating, should I tell him about Snape's feelings for Lily or.

[Micah]

I don't think that would have helped in this moment.

[Andrew]

No, it wouldn't have.

[Eric]

But it's okay. Harry, he was kind of headed the hots for your mom, but he was

[Andrew]

clearly debating giving Harry something important. I think that would help Harry trust Snape more and prove that Snape is on their side.

[Micah]

Possibly.

[Laura]

I think it all goes back to Dumbledore orchestrating all of this so that Harry doesn't find out the critical information until the absolute right moment for it. And I don't know that Dumbledore was ever planning for Harry to find out that Snape was the one who overheard the prophecy. Like, it wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore was just always going to kind of omit that information, at least until they won the war.

[Eric]

Because it's inconvenient. Right? It's inconvenient to have two of his generals, Snape and Harry, at each other's throats even though one did the other wrong. Yeah.

[Micah]

And I, I, the whole remorse piece of it, the part that doesn't sit well with me, is, okay, he had remorse, but he still treats Harry like garbage. And if he, if he legitimately had remorse, he would be unflatteringly or what's the right repentance? Yeah, he would be so willingly kind towards him, you would think. But we know it's the James angle of it as well. But to kind of wrap up the chapter, there's a couple different things that are happening here. We learn that Dumbledore wants Harry to accompany him to go and find Horcrux. Harry is still concerned about Draco through all of this. And he's afraid in particular that when they leave the school tonight that Draco's gonna use it as an opportunity to do whatever it is that he wants to do. Especially after earlier on in this chapter we we hear about him in the room of Requirement. Very satisfied at having mended something. I woo. I won. I wonder if if Dumbledore wasn't in such a rush here, would he have gone to actually investigate what's going on in the room of Requirement?

[Andrew]

Probably not because he knows. Yeah exactly he knows.

[Eric]

Yeah it's and, but, but this is the problem. It sounds like Harry's the only one doing some MRFing investigative journalist like the only one pulling this thread. The only one caring about this huge breach and violation of Hogwarts security of the lives of students. You guys want to know how to piss off Dumbledore? Apparently the only way to piss off Dumbledore actually make him angry at you is to suggest for a passing moment that he does not have the interest of the students at his deepest heart.

[Andrew]

Well it is a little insulting. I mean he's not listening to Mugglecast. He doesn't realize all the security issues going on around. That's true.

[Eric]

If he had seen all the evidence that we've gathered.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean we sell hats for crying out loud. This is a real issue. Go castmerch.com he needs to be reminded

[Micah]

of his track record over Harry's time at Hogwarts about just how non secure the school is.

[Andrew]

But does it bring you all peace that he actually has some extra security measures in place? We just don't know about him.

[Eric]

Well they don't work well they're moping

[Micah]

around and Harry accidentally bumps into them like he does with tonks. Right.

[Eric]

Like is that his security?

[Andrew]

Right?

[Micah]

Oh yeah, yeah I'm assuming. Right, because we'll get a mini battle before this book is out.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but not in movies because that would have been redundant to have battles at the end of 6 and 7. No, who wants that?

[Eric]

But we needed to add a burrow on fire scene to keep pacing up. Right.

[Micah]

Despite Dumbledore's convictions that Hogwarts is firmly secure in his absence, Harry takes it upon himself and arms Hermione and Ron with Felix Felicis and gives them direction really to defend the school. So good on Harry before wandering off to the cave in the next chapter.

[Andrew]

At least somebody's looking out for the school.

[Micah]

Right?

[Eric]

You know what, I just want to call out because again, so we missed at the beginning of this chapter that it's been a few weeks of Harry and Ginny dating and we'll never read about it ever again except in a fan fiction that's coming soon. But my lovely Ginny, Harry, when He gives Hermione and Ron the Felix, Felicis says, and give some to Ginny too. So he's distracted. But he cares about her enough that he wants to make sure that she gets some of the luck potion that remains. And that to me sells me. You don't need luck.

[Andrew]

You have the Chosen One. You're good to go.

[Micah]

All right, well that wraps up this chapter and at the very end we head to. It is interesting that given what we hear about in the prophecy that Dumbledore makes almost a point of apparating from the Hogshead. I know in the movie they they apparate from the Astronomy Tower, but in in this chapter it is right from the Hogshead where the prophecy was made before heading off to the cave. So our Lynx line question for this week. You're Harry and you happen to run into Snape on your way to Dumbledore's office after just learning that he overheard the prophecy. What happens?

[Andrew]

Harry would have said to him, apparently I should have penetrated your mind deeper last year, you slimy filthy vampire. I almost called him Batman, but I thought vampire was better.

[Eric]

He is the knight. I would just say you killed my parents and see what he says. Would he run away? Would he stay and talk? Would he try and excuse me? It would he lie? It's such an interesting thought that Snape would ever acknowledge that this happened or bring up Lily or anything.

[Micah]

I decided to go with so read my mind now bitch

[Laura]

and see. I would just be going for justice here and I'd be like now wait a second. At least there was an undo option for when I cast Sectum Sempera. You gave me so much crap for that. But you got my parents deleted. Permanently. Screw you.

[Eric]

Delete. Delete. Click.

[Andrew]

Over on Patreon we got some responses. Zachary said you knew. You knew all along and you never told me. Thought that was pretty good.

[Eric]

Classic Rachel says I don't know that I'd say anything to Snape whenever Harry has talked back to him. It never ends well. I'd maybe say something to Hagrid and hope he accidentally knocked Snape into a wall. Possibly it'd knock some sense into the greasy haired head, it says of his. I guess.

[Micah]

And Carly said I'd say absolutely nothing. I would think about it constantly whenever I was around him and let him read it from my mind as I stared daggers at him. I imagine it would drive him crazy knowing I know and haven't said a word to him about it. He would want the confrontation and I wouldn't Give it to him.

[Andrew]

Thanks everybody who participates in our Links line segments. And if you have any feedback about today's episode, you can email or send a voice memo to mugglecastmail.com you can also reach out via Spotify or YouTube or slide into our DMs Mugglecast on TikTok, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Next week we will discuss Chapter 26 of Half Blood Prince, the Cave. Visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots, lots more. And don't forget to subscribe, review and share the show with other Muggles. And now it's time for Quizzic.

[Eric]

This week's question. In this chapter, Gryffindor has to succeed over Ravenclaw by at least 300 points, which they do in US college football. A a record holding October 1916 match ended in Georgia Tech scoring 222 to 0 over their opponent. Who was that match against? Now Micah, I remember asking you last week do you know this? And you said you might. And now I'm wondering do you know who this might be?

[Micah]

Even though it's in the document? No. Well, I don't think I've ever heard of that university. Laura may have though given the location

[Eric]

this famous game in college football that 222 to 0. I'll tell you what, there was only one person who submitted the correct answer.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Eric]

And I've that you know what this means. I finally stumped everybody, isolated. I finally pissed everyone off and given a hard enough question. And everyone has left me and is no longer participating in quizzage. Even though they get to do fun names. Except for, you guessed it, Eden the muggle born established 2012. Who asks does asking my dad count as looking it up?

[Andrew]

Oh so sweet.

[Eric]

Props to Eden's dad and your continued participation in Kwizzitch means the world. The correct answer was Cumberland University. So the highest scoring match in college football 222 to 0. A blowout veritable against Cumberland University. Here is a relevant question for next week's Quizzage. What is a more common name of the ailment known as pertussis or pertussis? That one's easy. Submit your answer to us on the Quizzitch form located on the mugglecast website. Here's a reminder because this episode is being recorded as a double header and the Quizzic answer to this question and next week's question will be all read on the following episodes. So when you go to the Mugglecast website. There will be two quizzh forms to fill out.

[Andrew]

Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

Bye, everyone.

[Laura]

By.

[Eric]

Sam.