Gurg Wars (OOTP Chapter 20, Hagrid's Tale)

Summary

MuggleCast: Gurg Wars (OOTP Chapter 20, Hagrid's Tale) - Detailed Summary

Released on March 25, 2025

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Introduction to Chapter 20: Hagrid's Tale

In this episode of MuggleCast: the Harry Potter podcast, the hosts delve deep into Chapter 20 of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, titled "Hagrid's Tale." This chapter provides a comprehensive look into Hagrid's mission with Madame Maxime and their interactions with the giant community, offering listeners new insights into the complexities of these characters and their relationships within the Wizarding World.

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Recap of Previous Discussions

The hosts begin by reflecting on their previous episode ([06:29] Eric), "A Giant Waste of Time," where they explored the initial interactions between Hagrid, Madame Maxime, and the giants. They express excitement about revisiting this chapter, highlighting how repeated readings unveil new layers and interpretations.

Micah ([06:43]):
"Three turns should do it, I think."

This lighthearted comment underscores the camaraderie among the hosts as they navigate through intricate plot details.

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Hagrid's Character Development

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Hagrid's portrayal in this chapter. The hosts analyze his demeanor, physical state, and emotional depth, contrasting it with previous representations.

Andrew ([06:29]):
"I really enjoyed this time with Hagrid because we didn't get him until now in this book. It was a big deal."

Laura ([10:16]):
"He's been a constant presence for Harry. And finally, somebody, an adult that Harry can trust and go to."

These reflections emphasize Hagrid's role as a stabilizing and trustworthy figure for Harry amidst his growing isolation and mistrust of others, including Albus Dumbledore.

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Encounter with the Giants

The core of Chapter 20 revolves around Hagrid and Madame Maxime's mission to engage with the giant community. The hosts discuss the societal structure, the dwindling giant population, and the fragile peace between giants and wizards.

Micah ([13:38]):
"I feel like we get a lot of time with Hagrid. It's something we don't see in the movies."

Andrew ([27:03]):
"It's hard to make progress here when this area is just chaotic."

The conversation highlights the challenges Hagrid faces in persuading giants to ally with Dumbledore against Voldemort, given their marginalized status and internal conflicts.

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Dumbledore's Strategy and Moral Implications

The podcast hosts delve into the moral complexities of Dumbledore's strategy in recruiting the giants. They debate whether Dumbledore's intentions differ from Voldemort's, especially concerning the welfare and autonomy of the giants.

Laura ([32:46]):
"It’s also a commentary on marginalized communities and how oftentimes they are bribed to exploit them."

Micah ([33:04]):
"If the intent is for them to fight, that's one thing. If the intent is to just take them off the board... that's different."

This segment underscores the ethical dilemmas inherent in alliances formed during wartime, questioning the extent to which one can justifiably use marginalized groups for greater causes.

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Umbridge's Confrontation and Its Implications

A pivotal moment in the chapter is Umbridge's interrogation of Hagrid, where her suspicions about his recent activities come to the forefront. The hosts analyze her tactics and the dynamics of this confrontation.

Micah ([49:23]):
"Is she just watching the grounds and everyone all the time?"

Andrew ([55:49]):
"What's the rush? Other than there seems to be some kids or people moving towards that hut in the dark of the night?"

Their discussion reveals Umbridge's relentless pursuit of control and her obsession with rooting out dissent within Hogwarts, further complicating Hagrid's already precarious position.

---

Exploration of Giant Society

The hosts appreciate the depth of the giant society portrayed in the chapter, noting its scarcity in other parts of the series. They discuss the giants' societal norms, aggression, and the impact of their dwindling numbers.

Micah ([31:54]):
"They have a chief called a Gurg. The Gurg needs to be bribed with gifts to consider not ripping visitors in half."

Eric ([35:16]):
"I was never really a runner."

These insights shed light on the fragile and often hostile nature of giant communities, emphasizing the difficulty Hagrid and Madame Maxime face in fostering genuine alliances.

---

Hagrid's Personal Struggles and Family Dynamics

The conversation shifts to Hagrid's personal life, particularly his relationship with his parents. The hosts explore how his strained relationship with his mother and the death of his father have shaped his compassionate and nurturing nature.

Micah ([45:21]):
"Hagrid strives to give comfort and stability to kids who also don't have both their parents."

Andrew ([48:17]):
"Hagrid is speaking from a place of great loneliness."

This segment highlights Hagrid's vulnerability and his role as a surrogate parental figure for Harry, Ron, and Hermione, reinforcing his significance beyond his physical prowess.

---

Speculations on Future Plot Developments

Toward the end of the discussion, the hosts speculate on future plot points, including the introduction of new characters and the potential fallout from the giants' rebellion.

Eric ([37:42]):
"They might have already been in league with the Death Eaters before the Gurg was killed."

Micah ([40:14]):
"They infiltrate and destabilize it from within. I'm sure that's what they're doing here too."

These predictions hint at deeper conspiracies within the giant community and their potential alliances with dark forces, setting the stage for future conflicts.

---

Listener Engagement and Community Interaction

The episode also features interactive segments where listeners participate in discussions and quizzes related to the chapter. Questions like "Best Hagrid moment" and "Magical adventure with any Wizarding World character" foster community engagement and provide diverse perspectives on beloved characters.

Andrew ([58:22]):
"I want to see Hagrid and Maxime presenting that everlasting flame to the giants."

Laura ([63:39]):
"I would love to be a second set of eyes and ears for the order to give them an advantage against the Death Eaters."

These interactions not only enrich the listening experience but also cultivate a sense of belonging among the podcast's audience.

---

Conclusion and Upcoming Content

Concluding the episode, the hosts tease the next chapter's discussion—Chapter 21, "The Eye of the Snake"—and encourage listeners to participate in ongoing community activities. They also briefly mention their other podcasts, What the Hype and Millennial, expanding the scope of their content offerings.

Andrew ([68:10]):
"Wow. Bye, everyone."

Micah ([68:19]):
"It's oddly wholesome."

This heartfelt sign-off reinforces the hosts' dedication to building a supportive and engaged listener community.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Micah ([06:43]):
  "Three turns should do it, I think."

• Andrew ([06:29]):
  "I really enjoyed this time with Hagrid because we didn't get him until now in this book. It was a big deal."

• Eric ([35:16]):
  "I was never really a runner."

• Laura ([32:46]):
  "It’s also a commentary on marginalized communities and how oftentimes they are bribed to exploit them."

• Micah ([31:54]):
  "They have a chief called a Gurg. The Gurg needs to be bribed with gifts to consider not ripping visitors in half."

These quotes encapsulate the hosts' key insights and humorous interactions, adding depth and personality to their analysis.

---

MuggleCast continues to provide in-depth discussions and engaging content for Harry Potter enthusiasts, combining thorough literary analysis with lively banter and community interaction. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to the Wizarding World, this episode offers valuable perspectives on Hagrid's pivotal role in Order of the Phoenix.

Transcript

[Eric]

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[Micah]

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[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I am your head Gurg, Andrew.

[Eric]

I am the littler Gurg, Eric.

[Laura]

I don't mess with gurgs.

[Micah]

I'm Micah, and I think I need to bring a little kid in here to tell Andrew that he's not the real gurg. I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

We're your Harry Potter friends talking about the books, movies and forthcoming TV show. So make sure you follow the show on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. And on this week's episode, get out your dragon stake to soothe your wounds because we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 20 Hagrid's Tale. Before we dive into this week's chapter, Micah and Eric, you two were hanging out last week.

[Eric]

That's right. In Chicago. Micah came to witness the St. Paddy's Day festivities, namely the Chicago river dying. But we took some of the time we had and decided to play the old Sorcerer's Stone trivia game together. Yes, as part of a bonus Mugglecast, which will be live on Patreon this week. So definitely, if you're subscribed to us on Patreon, definitely check out that bonus Mugglecast we Do try and do fun things whenever we're together in person and in general, do bonus mogul cast twice a month.

[Andrew]

So is this Sorcerer's Stone movie trivia book trivia? What was this book?

[Eric]

Yes, it was produced before the first movie came out. So it's copyright 2000 and it's sort of like a Trivial Pursuit style style board. There's five different categories and we in the video cover like 55 questions. It's Meg, Micah and me.

[Laura]

Let's be fair and real and honest here. Meg got most of them right.

[Eric]

We got creamed. We absolutely got creamed. But it was multiple choice and you have the option of using that or not. But it's all on high def video, which I'm wrapping up now, so that'll be a lot of fun. Something a little different for a bonus.

[Andrew]

I'm looking forward to seeing that. Yeah, every once in a while I'm in one of those like pop culture memorabilia stores or like a used bookstore and I come across old Harry Potter games and I've thought of buying those from time to time. I need to pick those up. Those are really cool. I'd love.

[Eric]

Honestly, I got mine at half price books for like $8. Yeah, there was that one. There was the Mystery at Hogwarts game. There was a couple others I think.

[Andrew]

I shared with y'all. One time I went to a place here that had some sort of Harry Potter toy that also allowed you to bake like a basilisk or something. I can't remember. But I do remember on the back it said the expir date of the food and it was like 15, 20 years ago at this point.

[Eric]

Still be good. You just can't eat it.

[Andrew]

I. Well, I was thinking for the Patreon I would eat it and you know, put sacrifice my health for we need our head girl.

[Micah]

I thought you did eat it. I thought you tried some.

[Andrew]

No, I didn't buy it. I wish I bought it. I wish I bought it.

[Laura]

And we thought the chocolate frog cards were bad.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we've encountered some expired chocolate frog cards.

[Laura]

And Eric, strangely enough, my arm is still bothering me from that game.

[Eric]

Interesting. Those who watch the full video of the bonus Muggle cast will know that when Micah was in Chicago, he got a tattoo, but not the tattoo that I've been trying to get him to get for 15 years now.

[Andrew]

You got a real tattoo?

[Laura]

You'll have to watch the video and find out.

[Andrew]

Okay, so I guess that's a no.

[Laura]

Well, I could text you after the show, but for the purposes of encouraging people to tune in to bonus Mugglecast. Okay, the other thing I will say too is that it just proves how tough playing quizzage is. When you do board game trivia like that. It's easy to sit in the host seat and ask the questions, but when you're the one who has to answer. And man, I messed up some questions that I really should have known the answer to.

[Eric]

It's like a 300 page book and there are thousands of questions.

[Andrew]

It looks like. Micah, you need to go back and listen to our chapter by chapter episodes on Sorcerer's Stone and maybe you'll be better prepared next time. Well, listeners, as we continue to analyze the books and cover the upcoming Harry Potter TV show, we would really appreciate your financial [e-mail] mugglecast that's where you can find those bonus Mugglecast episodes that we're teasing today. And also by becoming a member of the Mugglecast family, you will get access to ad free episodes of the show, early access to episodes, a new gift every year, access to our Facebook and Discord groups, our live streams, all kinds of things. So check it all [e-mail] mugglecast and another great way to help us out is to tell your other Harry Potter friends about the show. And please do leave us a review in your favorite podcasting app. Thanks everybody. We really appreciate you. And now it's time for chapter by chapter. Once again, we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 20, Hagrid's Tale.

[Eric]

Yes. Which we last discussed on episode 456 of Mugglecast. And to get an idea of how we felt about the chapter five years ago on March 9, 2020, the title of that episode is A Giant Waste of Time.

[Micah]

Three turns should do it, I think.

[Andrew]

Good luck. What the.

[Micah]

Episode 456 with the giants, they're looking at the wizards and they're like, we don't have any dog in this fight because y'all have treated us like CR the entire time. But then maybe Voldemort comes up and starts giving them really lavish gifts. Or maybe he starts making promises to them, you know, and really taking advantage of sort of their place in this society to make them feel like, you know, they might get something special out of the arrangement.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Micah]

Which they clearly don't.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, maybe Voldemort promised he's going to clear their student loan debt and they just fell in love with that idea. Mysterious thing Time or cure their Covid. This episode came out March 9, 2020. I feel like I can hear the COVID in my voice.

[Micah]

I was thinking the same thing. I hear the lockdowns in my voice. This is like three weeks into not being able to go anywhere and not feeling like it's summer camp anymore. Like, I think a lot of people who had to be home for the first, like, week or so, kind of like novel and exciting and it got old really, really fast.

[Eric]

It's okay, guys. Soon we discover that we can do Kwizzitch lives and everything changes.

[Micah]

Oh, yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah. With our audiences. So that totally, like, gives us all a lift.

[Micah]

Definitely.

[Eric]

I'll try not to make it so obviously depressing in future time Turner clips.

[Micah]

No, it's all good, honestly. That's the fun of looking back on these. Right. Is like, where we took the discussions before, but also was going on in the world at the time. Because at the time we were able to draw connections between these books and what was going on five years ago. And here we are again, still doing the same thing and still waiting for.

[Eric]

My debt to be forgiven.

[Micah]

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Spoiler alert. But anyway, it's really interesting to see how over time, we're still getting new things out of these books. And I think I got something new reading this chapter this time. And it was an appreciation for what this chapter does for Hagrid. We actually get a lot of time with Hagrid. We really get to see him navigating a pretty long and challenging conversation, a situation that kind of goes sideways towards the end. And just seeing how he navigates those things isn't something that we consistently get exposed to. And it honestly reminded me of some things that I really hope the Max series actually depicts, because we didn't get a lot of stuff like this in the movies, especially not in the later movies.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's. I really enjoyed this time with Hagrid because we didn't get him until now in this book. And as we were talking about a couple of weeks ago, it was a big deal. I remember seeing his return, not just for the Trio, but as a reader too, because this is somebody who's had a really close relationship with the Trio over the course of the book so far. And to finally have him back was heartwarming.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah. And this is somebody who's familiar to us. He's been a constant presence for Harry. And finally somebody, an adult that Harry can trust and go to. Because so far, not so good with Albus Dumbledore.

[Eric]

Right. For how isolated Harry is feeling, Hagrid is A friend. And it's just always good to have your friends around you.

[Micah]

Yeah. Well, the trio are obviously eager to see Hagrid as soon as possible. So they go straight down to the hut under the invisibility cloak. And Rubyus ain't looking too great.

[Andrew]

No, looking a little green.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah, green and bloody and kind of mangled looking. Green dragon's blood dripping off of the dragon stake that he has slapped against his brutalized eye. I mean, it's quite a visual.

[Eric]

Listen, he was just come down off the mountain. He didn't have time to get frozen peas at the grocery store at the Hogsmeade, you know, like corner store, so.

[Micah]

Right. But just happened to find one of these dragon stakes. I. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that we talked a lot about the dragon stakes last time. It just feels like something we would have done.

[Andrew]

I feel like they should have that stake at the Wizarding World theme parks. And like when you come into it, some green blood oozes out.

[Laura]

It's true to some extent in our world also because some lizards have green blood.

[Andrew]

Oh, really? I didn't know.

[Micah]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Laura]

Actually, just looking it up briefly. Some have blue blood, some have clear blood. Green, purple or black blood.

[Andrew]

What?

[Laura]

Oh, not all lizards. Different types of animals. Birds, reptiles.

[Andrew]

Let's host a dissection class and we'll check it out for ourselves.

[Micah]

Black blood sounds so metal.

[Laura]

Anyway, horseshoe crabs have black blood.

[Eric]

No kidding.

[Micah]

Oh, wow. Learn something new every day.

[Laura]

Also do with the oxygenation.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Ah, that makes sense. Okay, well, it's funny that we're having that conversation as we're talking about Hagrid, because I think he would be all about that and he would want to spend the next 20 minutes talking about horseshoe crabs. But what I really appreciate about Hagrid in this chapter is I feel like we do get to see slightly different side to him. He has this demeanor from the start and we know that he cracks pretty quickly. But do we feel like this kind of stark refusal to share any details, dismissing concerns about his physical state and the way that he fixes each of them with a singular glare from the one eye not covered by the dragon stake? This just feels like a different Hagrid. Do we think this sets a different tone for him?

[Eric]

I think travel was good for him. Maybe like he hasn't yet settled into the comforts of home. That is having somebody care for you or care about you or care that you're back. He's not used to that. When hermione is so effusive with it and caring and speculating about his appearance and whether he's okay. He's quick to assure her, yeah, but there's a dark turn in that he not only flat out tells them, I'm keeping Dumbledore's secrets, it's worth more than me job and he intends to stick to that. I know he says that all the time, but you really kind of believe it. And then also he's keeping a further secret which we won't find out yet, and that's grop. And so he is not only keeping Dumbledore's secrets, but he has his own. He dares to have his own personal secrets. And it's funny to see him, I don't know, being so important enough to have this type of, of secret because every, every other secret Hagrid's ever tried to keep from the Trio was kind of carelessly dropped like oops.

[Andrew]

So I was gonna say something similar, that I think he really respects Dumbledore's ask and that Dumbledore trusted him with this mission and he wants to keep things under wraps for as long as possible because of that. It did surprise me how initially committed he was to withholding information. For someone who has been traditionally loose lipped when it comes to sharing information with the Trio, it's like, hey, you.

[Eric]

Really think you could keep this secret?

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. But on the other hand, he also just got back from a very exhausting, brutal trip and he's in no right mind to be sharing info right away. I think, you know, for any of us, we know the feeling of getting home after a long travel day. Maybe we flew cross country or whatever else and you get home at night and you're exhausted, you want to go to bed, you don't really want to talk to anybody, you want to chill out. Micah knows this. He's traveling all the time for work. What cracks me up though is how quickly Hagrid is willing to flip. Once he hears that Harry faced Dementors, then he, then he's willing to make a deal.

[Laura]

I'd be interested to see the type of person that Hagrid became when he was on the road with Madame Maxime. And how much that personality differs from the one we see when he interacts with Harry and Hermione. Because I have to imagine that some of that was still lingering during those initial moments when the Trio show up. But then to your point, he does soften. But yeah, I, if I were in his shoes, I would not want anybody knocking on my door, I would want to have a cup of tea, slap that steak on my face and go lay down in bed.

[Andrew]

Slap that steak on my face.

[Laura]

But it's just, it's tough for him because he's literally not home. What does he say? Three minutes and he's got them knocking and then Umbridge shows up later. Man can't even, you know, take a snooze before he's getting interrogated by. By both of these groups.

[Micah]

Yeah, that's true.

[Andrew]

That's a good call on Hagrid's. Let's call it maturity here. Legalize. Gilly Weed, who is listening live on our Patreon right now, chimes in. Hagrid fully recognizes they're in the early stages of another wizarding war. Not sure the trio have that awareness yet. Yeah, Hagrid knows that the mission he was on was for very good reason, very serious reasons.

[Laura]

And if they would have just waited to get him down at the Hogshead. We know that Harry, Ron and Hermione now frequent this establishment.

[Eric]

Well, they know the way.

[Laura]

Yeah, he would have probably spilled everything.

[Eric]

I think that Hermione and Harry are going to avoid the Hogshead now since they were overheard.

[Laura]

It's probably true.

[Andrew]

Learn their lesson to that point. Micah. When I fly cross country, I get home at the end of a long travel day. I am sipping on a glass of gin. I need to cut loose after that long travel day.

[Laura]

You deserve it.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Eric]

Take the day off.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

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[Eric]

I will say just going back to Hagrid's mental state. When he was traveling, he probably felt free in a way that he never did before. He's been tasked with responsibility, something that is firmly in his wheelhouse more than it is anyone else's wheelhouse. There's personal stakes involved. There was this quest with his mother that was kind of a lingering thread. Yeah. So that must have been very just good for him in addition to the FaceTime he got with Madame Maxime.

[Andrew]

Well, that's what I was just going to say. The quality time he got with her must have played a role in his gift. Well, I mean really though, because when he's talking to the trio, he talks very highly of Maxime and how capable she was on this mission with him.

[Laura]

This is very much an adult interaction for him where I don't know how much he actually gets of that, where he's able to have that kind of one on one time with another colleague. Colleague. It's always Harry Ronhermione and all the other students at Hogwarts. We don't see him hanging out with any other adult friends?

[Andrew]

No, and definitely not one he has feelings for. I'm thinking maybe with Slugcorn in the next book. Or is that just movieism when they're together?

[Laura]

The goldfish story is a movieism, but I don't.

[Micah]

They do get drunk together.

[Laura]

They do get drunk.

[Andrew]

Okay, all right. That's the other adult friend.

[Eric]

Well, I mean, Slughorn's using every scrap he can get of Hagrid.

[Micah]

Yeah, it's kind of one sided, but yeah, definitely. Well, they're able to weasel the truth out of him pretty quickly because someone guesses, hey, were you with the Giants? And Hagrid immediately gets defensive and is like, how did you know who you. Who have you been talking to? Who told you? And they're just like, Hagrid. It's kind of obvious why Dumbledore would have sent you. And then Hermione chimes in and says, yeah, did Madame Maxime go to.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Micah]

So that's where we get a lot of the information that Andrew was talking about related to Madame Maxime being a tough lady. Like, Hagrid talks about how she's, she dresses very, you know, elegantly and she seems, you know, very high class but she wasn't afraid to rough it. So I think that tells us more about her character too.

[Eric]

Yeah, and he had to hold her back from attacking some of the Death Eaters. She really wanted to go at him. And Hagrid had to be like, we can't make a scene.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah. Well, it seems like Hagrid is simultaneously annoyed and proud of the trio for being able to put two and two together here about what he'd been up to. And there is this brief diversion when Hagrid learns that Harry was attacked by Dementors. You know, they're trying to get the truth out of Hagrid. They're trying to get more details. He's holding back. And Harry says, you know, tell me about your summer and I'll tell you about getting attacked by Dementors. And Hagrid is like, what?

[Eric]

What?

[Andrew]

What? Yeah.

[Micah]

But he, you know, Hagrid does go on pretty quickly after that to confirm their suspicions about envoying with the giants on behalf of Dumbledore this summer. So something interesting that we get here too that I think may also factor into Hagrid's demeanor here being more serious is that he and Madame Maxime were being tailed by the Ministry pretty much the entire time. And when they reach the giants at a certain point they're also contending with having Death Eaters around. Also Trying to get in the good graces of the giants. So Hagrid's had to be on his scarred for months.

[Eric]

Yeah, that can have been pleasant. First, when I was reading this, this time I kept thinking of that scene from the Secrets of Dumbledore movie where Dumbledore has a tale, a Ministry tale that he like gets rid of. I think it's Dumbledore. It might be Newt. But anyway, it's kind of a crazy thing to realize that the work that you're doing is so important that you're being. You don't have your privacy that you normally have.

[Micah]

Yeah. Do we think Umbridge was specifically responsible for putting a tail on Hagrid and Maxime or was it just kind of a. A general Fudge? Says all of Dumbledore's people.

[Eric]

It sounds like a Fudge thing for me. I think Umbridge is too narrow minded to do anything other than plot evilly against Harry Potter, the complete center figure in the ire of Cornelius. That's my impression of it.

[Laura]

I agree. And if we look back just at the timeline of when Hagrid and Maxime go out on this journey, it's at the end of Goblet of Fire. So I would lean in the direction of Fudge for this as opposed to Umbridge. Doesn't mean that Umbridge, because of her position within the Ministry wasn't involved. But it definitely seems like an easy first step on the part of Fudge as they start to really tell all of Dumbledore's associates.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

I'm also just thinking that when Umbridge does confront Hagrid in this chapter, she doesn't really have any evidence against him specifically about where he's been. So if she was telling somebody to tell him, I feel like she would have had more information at this point.

[Micah]

Well, she does though, because at one point she asks him, you know, where he's been? And she says mountains. And there's this moment of panic. So clearly she knows what he's been up to. Whether that's because she had a tail on him or Cornelius just gave her the intel.

[Laura]

Yeah, and let's not forget too with the Death Eaters, the folks that are tailing Hagrid and Maxime are essentially one in the same because in all likelihood McNair is reporting back to Lucius Malfoy, who's reporting back to Cornelius Fudge.

[Micah]

Great call out that McNair was one of the ones tailing them.

[Eric]

That's a good point.

[Laura]

So they're being watched by multiple parties, but it's very likely that those parties are sharing information.

[Micah]

Yeah, totally. And a great connecting the threads moment there too with McNair, since he was the one who was supposed to execute Buckbeak in Prisoner of Azkaban. So he's hunting Hagrid here. That's a great call.

[Eric]

Yeah. Two severed heads between the Gurg and the Hippogriff.

[Andrew]

Severed head count severance, please.

[Eric]

I don't know why that came up.

[Micah]

This chapter is the most we get to learn about giants in the series, I believe. I don't remember reading this much about giants anywhere else in the series, apart from when we find out officially that Hagrid is part giant, but that's really more about his identity. And there is so much rich detail that I really hope the show is going to be able to include. I wish we could have seen this in the movies because it is so interesting. We learned that there used to be hundreds of tribes of giants around the world, but between being killed by wizards and killing each other, they've all nearly died out. There's a community of 70 to 80 that Hagrid and Maxime visited. They're 20 to 25ft tall and they like magic, just not when it's used against them. That made me so sad when I read it. I was like, oh man.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it was fascinating hearing about the giants because they are. Because when you do hear about them and Hagrid's intro ing all of this, you're like, wow, Hagrid had an impossible mission here and it was. What was that last episode? A giant waste of time?

[Eric]

Well, yeah. I struggle to think what we're gonna name this episode as a follow up to Beat it. But grg, GRG Wars. But yeah, you read this chapter on giants and how they live in a huge valley and they're among the mountains hidden and you think, can this, can this be real? Could I like scale this cliff? And it's even said you can't really get up here if you're just a Muggle, that you kind of need a magic edge to reach that. And it really just reminds me how there are these far reaches of our planet that are just so treacherous or that we will never set foot on. And there's something comforting in that, actually. It's exciting and it's. It stretches that sense of wonder, I think.

[Andrew]

Or people are too naive or too bold and they try and then they die. See Mount Everest.

[Eric]

Or my favorite thing about this chapter is when Hagrid talks about so called mountaineering accidents, those still make the news and he says, yeah, like, humans do find giants. They just. They don't survive them. And then the news puts it down as a mountaineering accident. So I found that to be like. That's as cool to me as realizing that boggarts are the thing under the bed that we all fear as a kid.

[Laura]

Given how much the world expanded with Fantastic Beasts, I'm surprised we didn't meet any giants in that series. We had three movies and they never showed up. I don't even think they were referenced.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I guess to play devil's advocate, I'd say maybe they just wanted to focus on introducing us to more whimsical creatures and some new ones. Instead of some of the creatures we saw in the Harry Potter series, they.

[Micah]

Wanted ones that they could turn into merch and sell easily.

[Laura]

That's kind of what I was gonna say.

[Andrew]

But giants aren't very.

[Eric]

No, they're not interesting. Also, maybe they felt shame for Gro. Still dedicating screen time to that character in the movies. That did no favors to anyone. Maybe.

[Micah]

Well, a little more on giants that we get in this chapter. Contrary to what Ron thinks, the giants aren't actually hiding. Most wizards just don't care about them as long as they're far enough away. And it also kind of seems like the giants aren't really intended to live in communities quite as large as this because they're more independent. And so the closer they live together, the more likely they are to get territorial and kill each other, which is why they really should have more room. But this kind of reminds me how as societies evolve and new communities come up, there are people and animals on this planet that get displaced because of that. And that's kind of what this reminds me of. Like, it makes me feel like the giants were displaced and that's why they're here.

[Laura]

Yeah, totally.

[Micah]

We also learn about the structure of giant society, although we got a preview at the top of the episode. They have really. What we learn about their political system is they have a chief that is called a Gurg. And the Gurg needs to be bribed with gifts to consider not ripping visitors in half. So keep that in mind. But like I said, this is just another marginalized community of the wizarding world and an ideal target for Voldemort because of how on the fringes giants are.

[Laura]

I think it's also a commentary on marginalized communities and how oftentimes they are bribed in order for those who are looking to exploit either them or resources that they may possess.

[Andrew]

Yeah, putting a Carrot in front of their face, basically.

[Micah]

Yeah, totally.

[Laura]

And they're certainly being utilized by both sides here as a means to an end. So I wanted to ask the question, is Dumbledore recruiting them any different than Voldemort recruiting them?

[Eric]

Oh, in terms of morality, yeah.

[Laura]

The presumption is that they're gonna fight for either one side or the other, right?

[Eric]

That's a great question.

[Micah]

I guess it depends on what Dumbledore intends to do with them. If the intent is for them to fight, that's one thing. If the intent is to just take them off the board so that they're not fighting at all, that's a different thing.

[Andrew]

Oh, and post Wizarding War, what does Dumbledore intend to do? Try to make amends with them. Give them. Try to offer them more space. Not be in hiding. I think that would be an important factor as well.

[Laura]

So you're saying he's looking for them to be the Switzerland of the wizarding world?

[Andrew]

I guess, yeah. I just think he needs to be thinking longer, further out than just the war. Just using them on the war and then forgetting about them again.

[Eric]

Yeah. If you can limit the amount of firepower used against you, it seems smart to try and do that. But it is also. I'm impressed with Dumbledore during this chapter. A lot of the information about Hagrid's own culture, the giant culture, comes directly from Dumbledore. Hagrid says, this is what Dumbledore told us to do, and it works. And it's just very, very astute. I wonder where Dumbledore learned that giants were this way. I mean, he speaks burmesh. Does he speak giant?

[Andrew]

Maybe Newt taught him. Maybe Newt taught him.

[Eric]

So there is a Newt movie out there with giants?

[Andrew]

Well, in the Fantastic Beast book, there is a section on giants, I believe. Right. I seem to remember that in I.

[Eric]

Question because there's magical beings and beasts are different and like. Like humanoid creatures or humanoid magic beings are not necessarily fantastic beasts.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

So I'm not sure, maybe.

[Andrew]

I'm thinking the troll is in the Fantastic Beasts book by newts.

[Eric]

And trolls are very similar too. Like humanoid, large, lone railroad.

[Micah]

Giants would be extremely offended by that.

[Andrew]

I know. I apologize. Giants, you can rip my head off if you're offended.

[Eric]

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[Micah]

The way I see.

[Andrew]

Running is a gift, especially when you.

[Micah]

Have stage four cancer.

[Andrew]

I'm Ann. I'm running the Boston Marathon, presented by bank of America.

[Micah]

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[Andrew]

To give people like me a chance.

[Micah]

To thrive in life. Even with cancer.

[Eric]

Join bank of America in helping Anne's cause. Give if you can@b of a.com support Anne. What would you like the power to do?

[Andrew]

References to charitable organizations is not endorsement by bank of America Corporation. Copyright 2025.

[Laura]

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[Micah]

Well, we learned that although The Giants aren't 100% convinced that they should sign up for Dumbledore's cause, we learned that Hagrid and Madame Maxime made make decent progress with the tribe's Girg carcass by giving him an everlasting flame and a goblin made battle helmet. Unfortunately for Carcass, he does live up to or down to his name, depending on how you want to think about it. Because one morning his head is at the bottom of a lake and now a new sheriff by the name of Golga Bath is in town. What a visual.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew]

And so frustrating hearing Hagrid recount this because they've been moving at this slow and steady pace per Dumbledore's instructions. Correct instructions. And then, you know, it's. It's hard to make progress here when this area is just chaotic. These giants are just chaotic. I mean, there. There's all this infighting. How can you possibly get ahead here?

[Laura]

So I'm willing to bet though, that Maxime and Hagrid giving the everlasting flame and the goblin made battle helmet to Karkus, put his life in danger.

[Eric]

Ooh.

[Micah]

Oh, Probably.

[Eric]

I kind of was wondering that too. I'm glad you pointed that out.

[Andrew]

Should have thought that through.

[Micah]

Oops.

[Eric]

Because you would think that of their minimal base emotions, jealousy has got to be one of them.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Yeah. Especially since we know they like magic.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. They'd be possessive. He would covet the Gurg's eternal flame. I'm going to play the Bengals tonight when I get off the show.

[Micah]

And we know that Golgamath is big. He's bigger than Carcass. And I thought we could do a little name origin here. So this is from the HP Wiki. Golga Math's name is derived from the number Google, its numerical value is a single digit one with 100 zeros afterwards or ten to the hundredth power. Obviously this is a huge number, which is fitting for one of the largest of the giants. So he is massive.

[Andrew]

Whoa.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Micah]

Thank you so much.

[Andrew]

That's the sound of rolling into the depths of Wikipedia.

[Laura]

I thought you were going to say that's the sound of carcass head rolling down the shore.

[Andrew]

If only it sounded that romantic and smooth.

[Micah]

So, unfortunately for Haggard and Maxime, Golgamath is not as convinced by the alliance that they're trying to push. And it becomes fairly obvious that he's already more receptive to Death Eaters, who we know one of them is McNair because they witness them visiting Golgamath during the course of their stay.

[Eric]

Yeah. And Mev, in our discord Listening live, points out something that I think we have to consider as a possibility, which is that the giants, specifically the second Gurg, may have already been in league with the Death Eaters before the Gurg was killed. And so they might have actually sparked the the challenge and ensured the victor. That's something that Hagrid wouldn't tell the trio. Not because he's keeping secrets, which he is, but because he doesn't know. He wouldn't have that extra insight. It feels true that that is probably what happened, even though we don't get that at all in the text. It's kind of neat.

[Micah]

Yeah. Actually, I love that because effectively we see them do the same thing at the Ministry. Right? Like they infiltrate and they destabilize it from within. I'm sure that's what they're doing here too. And they were probably nurturing this even before Hagrid and Maxime arrived.

[Eric]

Right.

[Micah]

I have to think.

[Eric]

Yeah, they didn't go straight for the Gurg they decided to like or once they realized the Gurg wasn't the tallest or strongest of them all, maybe they were disappointed and they were like, this doesn't fit our core values. We need to find actually the meanest one of these guys to recruit.

[Micah]

Yeah, they fomented a coup. Of course, the good news is that not all giants are immediate supporters of Golgamath or Voldemort. Hagrid and Madame Maxime do spend multiple days slowly traversing nearby caves in search of giants in exile who are maybe a little more open to hearing about Dumbledore. Unfortunately, these also tend to be the most vulnerable giants that have already had the crap beat out of them by the larger giants and by Golga. Math's thugs and ultimately Golgamath has his thugs raid the caves. A bunch of these more vulnerable giants are killed and the remainder who survive sever ties with Hagrid and Maxime out of self preservation because they don't want to die.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you know, it might have been a giant waste of time, but at least Hagrid and Maxime got in some half giant bonding time, right? This wasn't all for nothing.

[Eric]

There was some level of comfort there at some point.

[Andrew]

And we were saying earlier it was helpful for Hagrid to get out and travel a little bit.

[Laura]

For his mental health.

[Andrew]

For his mental health, yeah.

[Eric]

It's not the result which was miserable, it's the journey.

[Andrew]

This was Hagrid's Eat Pray love moment.

[Micah]

I really, you know what's so interesting is he's telling this whole story and he's completely leaving out the extremely crucial element that he did not come home alone. So I just wonder, like, how is he talking around Grop?

[Eric]

I think it's easy because I don't think, I genuinely don't think Grop comes up until the very end where they're at the cave with the wounded. I think that that is the crucial moment. And so it's easy to tell this full story. Like, yes, granted, at some point, up till this point was when Hagrid learned about his mom that Hermione asked about and he's like, oh, yeah, by the way, we found this out. So at that point he would have discovered Grop. So apart from like discovering that Grop is alive and he has a half brother, it was pretty easy to lay out because as soon as Graup is like really in the picture, Olymp leaves him and is like, you're on your own.

[Laura]

And it's perfectly reasonable to think that the injuries that he has came from the giants.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not a lie if he were to say, oh, a giant.

[Laura]

It'S a half lie.

[Micah]

Beat the crap out of me.

[Eric]

Half lie for a half giant before.

[Andrew]

A half Blood prince.

[Micah]

Yeah. Well, what does it say about giants that some of them are closed off to new ideas, like Golgamath and his ilk, but others can be more open to them, like the giants that Hagrid and Maxim encountered in the caves. Does this suggest a complexity to giants that they don't get credit for?

[Laura]

It's not that different than house elves.

[Micah]

Right.

[Laura]

If we're to make a comparison, because so many of them are closed off to the idea of freedom. But yet we have an example in Dabi, who loves every minute of it. Yeah, that's the first thought that came to mind.

[Andrew]

I guess the takeaway here is they are free thinkers and they will go their own way if they need to. Which is interesting to hear after hearing most of Hagrid's tale where it seemed like you had to face just the grog and deal with him. But there are others who you could work with as well.

[Eric]

Yeah, I think that maybe a key point to take out of this is that the giants are not thriving. And had they been allowed to thrive in the space that they required to do so, that you would actually get more thinkers or more types of giants that aren't just going to war with each other and dying young and burning bright. I think you'd get a lot more that were, you know, visibly smarter and more accomplished than they're allowed. But they've been kind of huddled into a corner here and they're dying out.

[Micah]

Yeah, they don't get that luxury at that point.

[Laura]

There's no Fellowship of the Ring here. Right. Where you have representation from all these different groups. It doesn't exist in the wizarding world currently. So many of the groups that we talked about are marginalized. It's not like the giants have a seat at the Wize, the house elves have a seat at the Wizenedgemo, the centaurs have a seat.

[Andrew]

You know, that would have been so cool, though. Big round table.

[Laura]

Yeah, that's a potential future opportunity to be more inclusive within the wizarding world.

[Andrew]

Something Dumbledore maybe could have offered post Wizarding War.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, someone just mentioned a few moments ago, Hagrid's mother. Hermione asks Hagrid if there were any signs of his mother there. And Hagrid truly doesn't seem to have much emotion around reporting that she's dead. But don't worry, Hermione, there's another relative on the way. Well, actually just out in the forbidden Forbidden Forest. Just hang on about six months.

[Laura]

Is it wrong that I just thought that, like, the yo mama jokes would be so appropriate here?

[Eric]

Like, which one specifically?

[Laura]

Yo mama's so ugly.

[Eric]

No, I mean, it's too soon.

[Micah]

It wouldn't have it. I don't think it would offend Hagrid, though. He doesn't see. He doesn't seem to have much nice to say about her. He literally is just like, she wasn't a good mother.

[Eric]

You know what credit to Hermione, though, because. Because even if Umbridge didn't interrupt this conversation, that they're having, which is very lovely. You give him 20 more minutes to talk. Neither Ron nor Harry would have asked Hagrid at all if he heard anything about his mother. They don't. They don't make that connection the way that Hermione does.

[Laura]

Yo mama's so tall.

[Eric]

That's it. And Hagrid would be like, yeah, there she is. Can't argue with that.

[Andrew]

Yes, you're right. Yeah.

[Micah]

I thought it was a very interesting contrast to how he talked about his father in the last book because it's very clear that he has the emotional connection and investment with his dad because that's who raised him. But it is interesting to see the whole mother's love theme in this story be inverted wherein the father ends up stepping up and really stepping into the shoes of the qualities that a mother figure would traditionally provide. And I was also thinking that this could be why Hagrid possesses so many stereotypically motherly traits because he didn't get them from his own mother in childhood. So he strives to give that comfort and stability to kids who also don't have both their parents or to marginalized creatures and people in the world.

[Andrew]

And that's an important point because that's a real thing that happens where if you don't get something from your parents that maybe you are yearning for, you then try to replace that or maybe offer it to other people because you didn't get it. Yeah. I also think Hagrid's a little blase about talking about his mother and her dying because as he brings up in the chapter, it was years ago that she passed. And yes, he's just finding out about it now, but maybe he assumed there was a good chance that she had died a while ago. So he was kind of prepared for this already.

[Micah]

Yeah. He also. Didn't he say she left when he was really young?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So I don't even think he remembers her.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And he even says. He says that part. I can't remember her much. Wasn't a great mother.

[Eric]

Yeah. But I mean, that's just it. And I think we. I love that we picked up on Hagrid's own mothering tendencies. And I think that he learned that compassion from his own dad who also died when Hagrid was very young. I think maybe even 13. So it's pretty rough. But Hagrid is speaking from a place of, I think, great loneliness. And there's not a lot more you can say about a parent that essentially abandoned him.

[Micah]

Yeah. Well, just like every other very interesting conversation that unfolds in this book. We don't get to get much further before the wrapping at Hagrid store starts because Ms. Congeniality herself has shown up up to confront Hagrid about where he's been the last couple of months.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Is she just watching the grounds and everyone? All the time.

[Andrew]

Get a life, lady.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Seriously, what are you, the High Inquisitor?

[Eric]

She has proximity sensors set up all over the lawn. I gotta say though, credit where it's due, Hermione, Harry and Ron made only half of one attempt to conceal their travels. There are three sets of footprints leading directly to this cabin.

[Andrew]

This was the frustrating part to me, and I know we were going to get it, get to it in a couple of minutes. But Umbridge is suspicious that people are in the hut because of those footprints. I think she should have done a deeper investigation in this moment because it's so obvious that other people are there. And Hagrid has no good excuses for those footprints because Umbridge points out, well, there's footprints going in, but none going back to the castle. Come on. They're caught. They got it. She's got to poke around.

[Micah]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that she didn't do like, Hominin. Hominin Revelio.

[Eric]

It's gotta be important magic or something.

[Andrew]

Or blast some air around out of the wand and blow the cloak.

[Eric]

The invisibility, that would work. No, it's. She has indenta rights. It's, It's, It's. It's very precarious.

[Laura]

I still wonder about that, though, because the cloak is one of the Deathly Hallows, so I've always been of the mindset that normal spells don't work on it.

[Eric]

Right. But Moody's Eye can. Can see through it. So Moody's. Moody's Eye can see where death itself can.

[Andrew]

And Umbridge can still, like, wave her arms around, like when she was in the fireplace, and pull the cloak off. It's not like she couldn't touch it.

[Eric]

Yeah, I mean, she does come close. There's one close call.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it says, like, he. He looks. She looks directly at them. Twice, I believe.

[Micah]

Yeah, she looks directly at the corner that they're standing in. So she doesn't see them, but she is looking around the cabin and there aren't that many places for them to hide.

[Andrew]

Maybe sensing a disturbance in the Force in that corner.

[Laura]

She's at all intimidated by Hagrid. And maybe that's why she does. Let's not forget the state that Hagrid is in. This is her first, presumably her first meeting with him. And she doesn't know. He's a big old softie.

[Eric]

He survived a fight. He looks like he's just been fighting them, right?

[Laura]

He looks like he's just gone 12 rounds. So there's. And there's Fang, who again, big softy. But she doesn't know that.

[Eric]

Right? Yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

She's very sharp with both of them. Like, even Fang tries to bound over to her at one point and I think she, like, snaps at him and is like, get away from me.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So she's clearly not afraid.

[Laura]

It's true.

[Micah]

Yeah. I think she has. She thinks she has the higher ground here, which is ironic. But it doesn't help that Hagrid is serving the absolutely worst poker face during this entire interrogation when she's like, I saw the three sets of footprints in the snow and none going back. And he's like, I don't know what that could be. I heard voices in here talking to you. Oh, I was talking to Fang. And, yeah, he talks back. He's basically human. And how did you hurt yourself? I tripped over a friend's broom. This was the most ridiculous one.

[Eric]

To me, at least it sounds plausible. In the magic world, aren't you always tripping over your friend's broom? I know I am.

[Micah]

Yeah. But, like, the level of damage and also that what happened to Hagrid's face is not what happens when you trip over something. Right.

[Andrew]

No, the excuses here are terrible.

[Micah]

Yeah. He also says he's been away for his health, which, like, not. Not a good look, man.

[Andrew]

In the South France.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

Says that he was. That he spent two months on the coast of France. And.

[Andrew]

And that's why I was asking earlier about Umbridge, truly knowing who was tailing Hagrid, because she seems to kind of just buy. She doesn't really buy it, but she doesn't press further when she. He's like, I went to the beach, I needed a vacay.

[Micah]

I think she's just trying to see what he says. Yeah, she's trying to see what she can get him to say, but I think she's also trying to put him on notice. I mean, even the way she departs by saying, yeah, we really want to weed out unsatisfactory teachers. Hagrid, good night. Like, it's very clear she's talking about him.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Laura]

And she knows his track record, undoubtedly, probably going all the way back to the Chamber of Secrets and the whole incident with Tom Riddle. Oh, yeah, she knows about the incident with Buckbeak she knows about, probably from Draco, just how bad of a teacher he is.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. If she was sent to Hogwarts to reform the clientele or the staff, she probably has a dossier on Hagrid that's leagues long. Yeah, he'd be a pretty easy target, despite his physical presence.

[Laura]

Do you think, though, that the trio are the reason why she's down here? Meaning, could Hagrid maybe have gotten a knight to settle in, figure out his story, not be bombarded and interrogated by this woman? Had Harry, Ron and Hermione not jumped at the first opportunity to come down to Hagrid's hut.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Cause what's the rush?

[Micah]

I think that's a safe bet.

[Andrew]

What's the rush? Other than there seems to be some kids or people moving towards that hut in the dark of the night?

[Eric]

She must be still on edge about trying to catch them out of their common room or out of bed or something, but listening live. Robert P. Said there were no footprints going back from Haggard's cabin to the school because that's when Jesus carried them. It's very funny, actually. They cast a charm behind themselves, but they should have done that on the way down. I'm just. It so would have derailed. It should have derailed. And it would have been all of their fault to not.

[Andrew]

I want to see Hagrid say that excuse to Umbridge. Oh, there were no footprints because that's where Jesus.

[Eric]

That's the Lord.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's the Lord for you. He works in mysterious ways.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Oh, that's funny. We get a couple of other things here at the end of the chapter. Hagrid referring to the Defense against the Dark Arts curse. And Umbrage waving him off, which was a nice if, you know, you know. Moment. Hermione's obviously extremely concerned about the curriculum that Hagrid is going to be teaching this year, because we all know that Hagrid is next up on the chopping block for professors that Umbridge wants to spend. But what's very interesting here is Hagrid refers to some of the lessons that he has planned, and he says that he has the only domestic herd of something in England.

[Andrew]

Foreshadow alert.

[Micah]

So Harry's soon going to finally come face to face and confront those weird creatures that were pulling the carriages at the start of the year. All right. Couple of odds and ends. Really quick ones. I thought this was an ouch moment. As they were leaving the castle under the Invisibility Cliff, nearly headless Nick was heard humming something that sounded horribly like, Weasley is our king.

[Andrew]

Aw.

[Micah]

And I just thought that was so rude. But then also, Ron has been pretty rude to Nick, so maybe that's why.

[Andrew]

And let's face it, it's a catchy tune that Draco came up with. Nick was the Gryffindor house ghost, though, so I feel like that's kind of mean to be singing that.

[Eric]

I think it's the kind of thing where it's like, innocent enough. It's like in spite of yourself, you're like. It's catchy, right?

[Andrew]

Yeah. Sometimes you just get an earworm and.

[Eric]

You can't let it go for hundreds of years.

[Micah]

And then there's just this funny moment where Ron is reacting to Hagrid, talking about how long it took he and Maxime to get to the mountains where the giants were. Ron reacts by saying, a month.

[Eric]

A month.

[Micah]

As though he had never heard of a journey lasting such a ridiculously long time. And I'm like, just you wait.

[Andrew]

Foreshadow alert.

[Micah]

And now we're gonna get into our mvq. Do we want to do that? MV question of the week.

[Andrew]

Best blank of the week.

[Eric]

Whatever.

[Andrew]

Best blank of the week.

[Micah]

All right, so this week's question. Best Hagrid moment. In this chapter, we want to see get the max treatment.

[Andrew]

So I want to see Hagrid and Maxime presenting that everlasting flame to the giants. Reading that, it's so intriguing to me. It's the first gift and it just seems like a really cool bit of magic and something that I personally would love to have in my house. Just imagine a permanent flame behind me in my shots or that could be nice for a backyard too. Don't have to worry about the gas or anything.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I want to see again Madame Maxime being rip roaring to go against the Death Eaters and Hagrid, like, talking her down, especially because, you know, it's easy to forget. I think that she's the headmistress of another wizarding school, so she's total badass. She's kind of been in a support role up to this point. I'd love to see her actually get her moment to shine there. Maybe to help them scrape away. I'm saying add more action to what's in the book.

[Laura]

Ooh, I really want to see him deliver the line to her. Excuse me, but who the ruddy hell are you?

[Eric]

To Umbridge.

[Laura]

Yes, I love that. And I would also just add in as a bonus. I want to see Just him traveling and going to all these locations and the bar brawl he almost got into with a vampire in Minsk.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Oh, yeah. That would be so interesting.

[Andrew]

I think fans will lose their minds if they finally saw a vampire in the Harry Potter series. Like, we've got him in the books played by Robert Pattinson, but not in the movie. Yeah, played by Robert Pattinson.

[Eric]

Sanguini.

[Micah]

I picked a moment that's kind of like a slapstick Hagrid moment from this chapter because we got a few of those and I love it. It's when he goes to pat Hermione on the shoulder reassuringly, but he accidentally knocks her down, illustrating how he doesn't know his strength. I would just love to see more Hagrid moments like this in the TV show because there are plenty of moments we get represented in the books where, like, he's just. He's a little awkward. And it's also very commonplace. Like, nobody makes a big deal about it. And he very good naturedly does things like, oh, sorry. And then reaches down to grab Hermione by her shirt collar and pull her back up. These are the kinds of things that I would love to see kind of expanded on in the show.

[Eric]

Yeah, I like that.

[Andrew]

So much opportunity.

[Micah]

And now we're going to get into our links line. This is a weekly benefit where Mugglecast listeners who are members of our community over at patreon.com mugglecast last answer a question of the week related to the discussion. This week's question is if you could go on a magical adventure with any Wizarding World character to do Dumbledore's bidding, who would it be and why?

[Andrew]

Lady Gryffindor said, I would bring Helena Ravenclaw's ghost if she was agreeable. And assuming she can leave the castle, she's super smart, can walk through walls, come back to me with any news fast, and would be great at helping me figure out what spells to use or even feel ancient magic.

[Eric]

Oh, that feels like that answer feels like winning. It's pretty cool. Cassandra says, I will follow Regulus Black's example and bring a house elf on my dangerous adventure. Perhaps I will bribe Dobby with a pair of mittens.

[Laura]

Jen says, Crumb, he's a triple threat. He's a talented wizard, handy on a broom if we need to make a quick exit. And was raised around the dark arts in Durmstrang. His Quidditch star status would make it easy to travel from country to country if needed. Added bonus, I think he would have some really interesting stories from life in Durmstrang to the hot goss from the international Quidditch scene to pass away the hours. But also I feel he would be comfortable enough sitting in silence with me when my social battery is maxed. The perfect travel companion Susan says if.

[Micah]

I could go on a magical adventure, I'd go with George Weasley out of the Twins. He's more level headed than and Fred. Both have to be well versed in charms to do their shop. His skills, quick quips and honestly just arsenal of Weasley's Wizard Wheezes products would make him the best companion on a mission.

[Andrew]

Julianne said. Hot take Draco. He'd do the tough things I was afraid to do and maybe I've read too much Draco fanfic, but I think there's a soft I think there's a soft soul underneath the hard exterior. I agree with all of that. Smart.

[Micah]

I can change him. Yeah, I'm just kidding Julianne. I'm just kidding.

[Eric]

No no, no. Theron says, I think Lupin or Sirius would be good options. They're both super smart and proficient at magic and have some street smarts, having roamed the Hogwarts grounds and Hogsmeade during their time at school. Lupin's also a werewolf, so as long as precautions are taken he would be good to have along. Oh, I just want the company, Zachary says.

[Laura]

Snape. One might call it the work of a deep cover Auror. I would love to be a second set of eyes and ears for the order to give them even more of an advantage on the Death Eaters.

[Micah]

And you know, Pooh and Kim says I would take Ginny. She's smart, tough and a great flyer so we could get away quickly. I would also borrow Hermione's bottomless bag as I like to overpack. Me too, me too, me too.

[Andrew]

Awesome contributions as always everybody. And don't forget you can participate in the links line every week by becoming becoming a [e-mail] mugglecast and if you have any feedback about today's discussion, you can email or send a voice memo to mugglecastmail.com our next muggle mail episode is just a couple weeks away, so please send it in that feedback now. We'll be doing it on episode 700, but until then, next week we'll discuss Order of The Phoenix Chapter 21 the Eye of the Snake and now it's time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week's question what ice hockey player had a rule named after him after he displayed unsportsmanlike tactics in an attempt to intimidate goalie Martin Brodeur by waving his hands and hockey stick in his face. This was, of course, Sean Avery. 45% of folks with the correct answer said they did not look it up.

[Andrew]

I don't believe it.

[Eric]

Yeah, the Avery rule of hockey. So now we know how many of our listeners follow hockey. Allegedly correct correct answers were submitted by a Healthy Breeze Buff Daddy. Quote, I gave up listening to podcasts during Lent, so I won't even know if you've read my name till after Easter.

[Micah]

Quote oh no.

[Eric]

Oh, but they didn't put their name, so we didn't technically read their name, only what they put as their name. Jen Niffler. Quid Witch, though, goes Hamilton Hufflepuff Klute, and of course, our friend Tofutom. Here is next week's Quizzage question. In the English fairy tale Jack and the Beanstalk, Jack, who later meets a husband and wife that are giants, trades what to obtain a handful of magic.

[Andrew]

Beans, his soul an everlasting flame.

[Eric]

Anyway, submit your answer to us on the Mugglecast web page. Mugglecast.com quizzitch is the quick URL. Or if you're already on our site, which, let's be honest, we know you have bookmarked in all of your favorite browsers.

[Andrew]

Let's be honest, it's set to your homepage.

[Eric]

Let's be honest. Yes, because the old days when people had homepages that weren't just the Google search engine, which is deadly efficient. Anyway, click on Quizzage from the main nav.

[Andrew]

And let's be honest, you want more podcasts from the four of us, so check out our other weekly podcasts, what the Hype and Millennial for more pop culture and real world talk hosted by us. In our latest episode of what the Hype, Pam, Eric and I are discussing if we could survive in the Hunger Games. For real. For real. And on Millennial, we actually interviewed a relationship coach who walked us through the biggest issues couples are dealing with in the modern world. So Laura and I finally worked through all our relationship issues, and we're getting married.

[Micah]

Yeah, we surprise everyone.

[Eric]

Congratulations.

[Micah]

She also diagnosed our our attachment styles on the fly.

[Andrew]

Whoa. It was fun.

[Micah]

Yeah. Fearful avoidant, apparently. I don't know what that means about me.

[Andrew]

All of these shows are brought to you by Muggles like you, and there's a few great ways to help us out. Visit mugglecastmerch.com to get official Mugglecast gear. Visit patreon.com mugglecast for two bonus Mugglecast episodes every month, plus ad free and early access to episodes of each show. You'll also get monthly Zoom hangouts with the Mugglecasters, a new gift every year, exclusive community groups, and lots of other magical perks. If you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please do send an owl to your friend and let them know about Mugglecaster and cast a five star review in your favorite podcast app. Thanks everybody for listening. Oh, I'm no longer Gerg. My head was ripped off, but I'm still Andrew. Headless Andrew. Fully Headless Andrew. Barely headless.

[Eric]

How can you be fully headless? I have taken refuge in a cave and hey, look at this fire. This is pretty neat. Somebody just left us here.

[Andrew]

Jealousy.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Laura]

I'm hiding under the invisibility cloak in Hagrid's hut. I'm Micah.

[Micah]

And I'm not forgetting to cover up my footprints in the snow. I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

Wow. Bye, everyone.

[Micah]

Bye, y'all.

[Eric]

It's oddly wholesome.