Hey Malfoy You're So Fine (OOTP Chapter 19, The Lion and the Serpent)

Summary

MuggleCast: Hey Malfoy You're So Fine (OOTP Chapter 19, The Lion and the Serpent) – Episode Summarized

Release Date: March 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of MuggleCast, the hosts—Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Laura—dive deep into Order of the Phoenix, specifically Chapter 19: The Lion and the Serpent. Alongside their analysis, they provide updates on the upcoming Harry Potter TV show and share exciting news about the illustrated editions of the Harry Potter books.

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News and Updates

Casting Announcements for Snape and McGonagall

The episode kicks off with the hosts discussing recent casting news for the Harry Potter TV series. Notably, Papa Essie Adu and Janet McTeer have been reportedly cast as Severus Snape and Minerva McGonagall, respectively.

• Eric highlights Janet McTeer's credentials:
  “She’s been in movies like The Menu and the Netflix series Ozark. Her intimidating role in Ozark makes her perfect for McGonagall” [03:00].

• Micah expresses enthusiasm:
  “Absolutely love to hear that.” [03:10].

The discussion then turns to the controversy surrounding Snape's casting, specifically the decision to potentially change his race.

• Micah raises concerns about racial implications:
  “Adding race into an already very difficult character may complicate discourse around him.” [03:33].

• Laura counters by emphasizing that anyone can embody a flawed character, regardless of race:
  “You can be any race and be a crappy person. It shouldn’t limit creative casting.” [04:10].

The hosts debate the backlash from the fandom, particularly from those adamant about Snape's original depiction.

• Eric addresses critics:
  “Don’t worry, Janet McTeer is a white woman, so we can all rest easy knowing they're not changing the race of every character.” [06:46].

Illustrated Editions Update

With Jim Kay stepping down after illustrating the first five books to focus on his mental health, Levi Pinfold has been announced as his successor for Books Six and Seven.

• Eric shares Jim Kay's endorsement of Levi:
  “Jim Kay said Levi's work blew him away and he's everything you could wish for in an illustrator.” [10:08].

• Micah appreciates the smooth transition:
  “It's the way you'd imagine, with a good-natured passing of the baton.” [11:48].

A preview of Pinfold’s work on Harry Potter.com was also revealed, showing his illustration of Harry and Dumbledore looking into the Pensieve, maintaining a style similar to Jim Kay's.

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Chapter Discussion: Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 19

Gryffindor vs. Slytherin Quidditch Match

The heart of the episode revolves around the intense Quidditch match between Gryffindor and Slytherin, focusing on Ron Weasley's first significant game as Gryffindor's Keeper.

• Andrew empathizes with Ron's anxiety:
  “Anxiety can be crippling under any circumstance… I felt for Ron in this moment.” [30:04].

• Eric relates it to real-life experiences:
  “Anxiety comes up in a lot of different ways that can cripple you…” [30:20].

The hosts analyze Ron's performance struggles and the psychological tactics employed by Draco Malfoy to sabotage him.

• Andrew questions the fairness of Draco's taunts:
  “Where do we feel the line gets crossed?” [33:53].

• Laura condemns the targeted bullying:
  “They’re specifically targeting one student… that’s not okay.” [35:56].

Draco's Antagonism and Umbridge's Punishments

Draco's calculated efforts to demoralize Ron culminate in him insulting Ron's family, leading to disciplinary actions by Dolores Umbridge.

• Andrew criticizes Umbridge's severity:
  “Banning them for life seems so extreme.” [60:08].

• Micah highlights Umbridge's abuse of power:
  “She can do anything, including lifetime bans from anything.” [61:54].

The conversation delves into the lack of appropriate repercussions for Draco and the broader implications of Umbridge's authoritarian rule.

• Laura points out the absence of adult intervention:
  “The lack of action from any of the adults… is deafening.” [48:26].

Real-World Analogies and Bullying in Sports

The hosts draw parallels between the Quidditch bullying tactics and real-world sports environments, discussing the impact of verbal abuse and the challenges of maintaining sportsmanship.

• Laura compares Draco's insults to unacceptable behavior in real sports:
  “They have no place in the kind of world in which good people live.” [35:56].

• Andrew underscores the emotional weight on a teenager:
  “For a 15-year-old… that’s a lot to put on the shoulders of somebody like Ron.” [33:09].

Hagrid's Return and Emotional Relief

Amidst the tension, Hagrid's return brings a sense of relief and optimism.

• Micah expresses joy:
  “Hagrid is our fiercest ally for sure.” [68:19].

• Eric resonates with the sentiment:
  “For him to be gone for so long is worrying… to have him back… it's comforting.” [68:43].

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Listener Interactions

Links Line: Fan Chants Against Malfoy

Listeners contributed creative chants to distract Draco Malfoy during Quidditch matches. Examples include:

• Rachel’s Idea:
  “I'd slip a ferret into the Slytherin Quidditch locker room…” [71:40].

• Zachary’s Contribution:
  “Draco cannot catch the snitch… Harry Potter’s itch.” [72:43].

• Jen’s Chant:
  “Hey, Malfoy, you're so fine. You're so fine, you blow my mind. Hey, Malfoy.” [73:19].

Quizzage Segment

The hosts present a quiz question to engage listeners:

• Question:
  “What ice hockey player had a rule named after him in 2008?”

• Answer:
  District Attorney (Although some incorrectly answered Defense Attorney). [76:51].

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Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, the hosts tease the next discussion on Chapter 20: Hagrid's Tale and encourage listeners to support them on Patreon for exclusive content. They also promote their other podcasts, What the Hype and Millennial, inviting fans to engage further with their Harry Potter community.

• Andrew signs off with a playful chant:
  “Hey, Malfoy, you're so fine…” [80:15].

---

Notable Quotes

• “You can be any race and be a crappy person.” – Laura [04:10]
• “Finding the best person to portray the role… we need to remove that from the conversation.” – Andrew [07:37]
• “She's thinking of making quotes and rules… she just doesn’t.” – Laura [07:37]
• “The lack of action from any of the adults… is deafening.” – Laura [48:26]

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Conclusion

This episode of MuggleCast offers an insightful and comprehensive analysis of Chapter 19 of Order of the Phoenix, interwoven with relevant news about the Harry Potter universe. The hosts effectively balance detailed book discussions with engaging listener interactions, making it a must-listen for both seasoned fans and newcomers eager to immerse themselves in the Wizarding World.

For more detailed discussions and exclusive content, consider supporting MuggleCast on Patreon.

Transcript

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Seek guaranteed [e-mail] guarantees welcome to Mugglecast, where we go chapter by chapter through the Harry Potter books and keep you updated on the forthcoming Harry Potter TV show. We're basically your Harry Potter friends and your weekly ride into the fandom. I'm Andrew.

[Micah]

I'm Eric.

[Andrew]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Eric]

And this week, try your best to avoid hitting your Quidditch rival lest you be banned from the sport forever. Because we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 19, the lion and the Serpent. Plus we have a little bit of TV show and Illustrated Edition news. So let's start with those two news items. First of all, we have casting updates concerning Snape and McGonagall. Papa Essie Adu and Janet McTeer are reportedly being signed for the roles of Snape and McGonagall, and we spoke about Papa previously when his name first came up as being considered for the role of Snape. Janet McTeer is new, though. She's appeared in movies like the Menu, which was released in 2022, actually opposite Ralph Fiennes, who played Voldemort in the movies, Daniel. And she was also in 2016's Me before youe. But what I know her from is Ozark, the Netflix TV series. She has an intimidating role on that show. And I was like, oh, this is perfect. Because she was great in that role. So she can intimidate and boss kids around at Hogwarts.

[Micah]

C Love to hear that. Absolutely love to hear that.

[Eric]

Yeah. So I'm pleased by that. Also, I think now we have to throw this out there for every time we hear about an actor or actress. Both of these people are English actors. They aren't Americans. All right, so any other thoughts on these two? We've discussed Papa a bit previously. Like I said.

[Micah]

Yeah. Snape's casting in particular does seem to be driving people to the comment boards. I think at this point, really, we just have to see how the story is going to treat that character. Because adding race into an already very difficult type character, I want to say problematic, an offensive character may excuse or make some discourse around that character harder to kind of navigate.

[Laura]

I think the point is, though, you can be any race and be a crappy person. And I think sometimes people, they kind of miss the potential for a deeper story to be told here because they're too afraid of the. The what ifs. What if someone has even more charged things to say about Snape because of his race? Someone who was going to do that was going to find reasons to do it anyway. Right. They were going to find some kind of outlet to pour that into. So I don't know that we need to use that as a reason to not step outside of the box creatively, especially with a story like Harry Potter that I know we were at least. I was very concerned early on that this show was just gonna try and be a repeat of the best hits from the movies and that it would be too much like the movies and they would just be trying to basically cash in. But what these castings show me, along with John Lithgow, is that they're intending to tell a different story here and they're going to be faithful to the.

[Andrew]

To.

[Laura]

To the plot and the character arcs of the story. We already know, but giving us a different lens to view it through. I'm actually excited by that.

[Micah]

In terms of. For this particular topic. I go back to what Evelynda said when we talked about this on our mailbag episode 690, and she said, as a person of color herself, I actually think that changing his race would add complexity to his character.

[Eric]

The complaints I keep seeing are from people who are merely upset that they're changing the race of a character.

[Laura]

There's a lot of that, too.

[Eric]

That's it. They think WB is doing it just to cast more people of color in these roles. And we went through this. When they cast a woman of color to play Hermione in the Cursed Child, people lost their minds. Then, you know, we see the show. It has zero impact on the story, on the character. Nothing whatsoever. Looking at the comments on the Mugglecast video that we posted, a couple of people were like, oh, Snape can't be a person of color. Because in the book he's described as having a pale face on one page. I'm like, you frickin kidding me?

[Laura]

Who cares?

[Eric]

Who cares? These are.

[Laura]

That's ridiculous.

[Eric]

It's racist. It's. They have. They just want to complain about a black person being put on their screens.

[Andrew]

I think it just comes down to finding the best person to portray the role. And as you just said, even though people initially were up in arms about changing the race of Hermione for Cursed Child, she was fantastic. And I think we'll find something similar, hopefully with Papa Esyodu taking on this role. People are so focused on the color of the person's skin has absolutely nothing to do with the character that he or she might be portraying. I think we need to remove that from the conversation here for this character specifically.

[Eric]

Yes, race plays no role in this character.

[Laura]

And I would be really interested in hearing other people's opinions on this. But, like, I think it's. I see a lot of the rhetoric around, like, oh, no, we can't put a person of color in this role because that could lead to all of these, like, negative perceptions that are rooted in race that, sorry, already exist in the world anyway. But I, I feel like it also takes away from, like, the perception that a person of color can and should have the acting range to be able to play a role like this and not always be cast as the good guy because we're too afraid to say, oh, yeah, sometimes anyone can be the bad guy. Anyone can be the jerk.

[Eric]

I just want to make the record clear for everybody, everybody who's upset about this Snape casting. Don't worry, Janet McTeer is a white woman, so we can all rest easy knowing they're not changing the race of every character. All right, so sleep well tonight.

[Micah]

I'll say, too, for snape, the actor's 34, which is wonderful, great, wonderful speech. Younger than me by a few years younger than me. I'm Very excited.

[Andrew]

Do you think, though, what this is telling us is that they are going to cast the Marauders also as being age appropriate?

[Micah]

Age appropriate Canon age.

[Eric]

Good call there. Stay with Mugglecast for more Harry Potter TV show coverage as we approach filming, which is slated to kick off this summer. In some other news, we've been wondering what is going to happen to the future of the Jim Kay illustrated Harry Potter books because he decided to step down after book five to look out for his mental health. Completely understandable. This was a huge project that he was taking on. Well, this week we have the new illustrator for books six and seven, Levi Pinfold. And he's actually worked in the world of Harry Potter before. He worked on Bloomsbury's Hogwarts House editions which came out over several years ending in 2021. And he also worked on the Harry Potter Wizarding Almanac which came out October 2023 scholastic.

[Andrew]

Does he look like Jim Kay?

[Eric]

I don't know. Does he? Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully. We also now have a release date for the Half Blood Prince illustrated edition. It's coming out October 2026. So it's going to be that gift. Holiday gift. Keep dreaming, Eric.

[Micah]

Keep dreaming.

[Andrew]

Half the Half Blood.

[Micah]

Yes.

[Eric]

Quarter, Quarter Blood Prince, Half Blood Prince, Harry Potter and Half of the Half Blood Prince.

[Micah]

Sorry, it's like one of my only recurring jokes, so I have to keep saying it.

[Eric]

You can actually see a preview of his work already on Harry Potter.com they released his illustration of Harry and Dumbledore. Looking into the Pensieve, which was beautiful, it looked very similar to Jim K. Style. So I think it's going to be a pretty seamless transition over to Levi Pinfold. Now here's something interesting. In the announcement, Jim K. Actually gave his endorsement to Levi Pinfold. He said an art director first showed me Levi's work many years back when I was visiting a publisher. When he pulled open the drawer and I saw this beautiful piece of painting, I was blown away. His work has since then become so important to me as he's everything that you could wish for in an illustrator. It's a huge comfort to know he is working on on the illustrated editions, for which I'm so grateful. But also as a fan of both Potter and Pinfold, I'm really excited. Now the reason I say this is interesting is because when Scholastic announced the new illustrators for the Minalima editions, there was no endorsement from Minalima saying, we're so excited about the new illustration team.

[Micah]

Oh, you shootster.

[Eric]

Awkward.

[Micah]

Yeah, no, but It's. This is the way that you would imagine that they should be doing this, with a successor and, you know, good. Good natured passing of the baton if this sort of thing has to happen. That's what you want to see.

[Eric]

Jim K. Decided himself to step down. It seems like Minalima wanted to continue on the project, but there was some sort of rift between them and Scholastic. That's our speculation anyway.

[Andrew]

Allegedly, Levi's got a little bit of Sirius Black going for him here.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

In this photo, it looks like.

[Eric]

Do you think he could play Sirius in the Harry Potter TV show?

[Andrew]

Why not?

[Micah]

All right, that would be cool.

[Eric]

Let him know.

[Micah]

Let's start casting people who've worked on the previous series, but as actors.

[Eric]

Mary Grand Prix for Madame Hooch.

[Andrew]

Yes, I can see that, actually.

[Eric]

Yeah, I was gonna say McGonagall, but that role's taken now.

[Andrew]

Supposedly she can still sneak in.

[Eric]

Well, as we continue to analyze the books and cover the Harry Potter TV show and other news in the wizarding world, we would really appreciate your financial [e-mail] mugglecast by becoming a member of our Patreon, you're helping us conjure up episodes of this indie show. And in exchange for your support, we offer you instant access to lots of great benefits, like bonus Mugglecast episodes. We release two of those every month. You also get access to our live streams, our planning docs, ad free episodes of the show, access to our discord and Facebook groups, and so much more. So check it all [e-mail] mugglecast and without further ado, let's get into chapter by chapter. And this week we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 19, the lion and the Serpent.

[Micah]

Yes, yes, yes. Well, Andrew, we last discussed chapter 19 on episode 45055 of Mogocast called How to Hogwarts that debuted March 3rd of 2020. And here is a fascinating clip from our chapter discussion. Three times should do a living.

[Eric]

Good luck. What the?

[Micah]

Episode 455. Harry's only recourse is to catch the snitch fast. And so he does. But Crab shoots a bludger at him. Hits him in the small of the back, if you guys like. The small of the back is where all the nerves meet.

[Andrew]

And that hurts like a.

[Eric]

You know you've been injured if you.

[Andrew]

Ever get hit there.

[Micah]

Have you been injured there, Micah?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, I've also gotten kicked during karate, like, right in the kidneys and you have to, like, gasp for air. But yeah, if you ever get hit in the small. The back.

[Eric]

You did karate. I didn't know that, man.

[Andrew]

Watch out.

[Eric]

I won't mess with you.

[Laura]

Yeah, mysterious thing time.

[Eric]

I just had that same reaction listening to that clip. Micah did karate. Totally forgot.

[Micah]

I saved it from repeating by letting us all know at the outset. So since that episode aired five years ago, I've been giving my Micah a wide berth. I don't know if you noticed, Micah.

[Andrew]

Thank you. But it does hurt. For those who have not experienced it, I'll just reiterate that fact. You definitely do gasp for air because you're getting hit in some of your most important organs.

[Micah]

So, yeah, it's never a good thing.

[Andrew]

It isn't. But what is a good thing is that Harry is flying high after his first Dumbledore's army lesson. But it is short lived, unfortunately, as most things are for Harry in this series. And we find out that it is becoming very challenging to schedule these Dumbledore army meetings because everyone has competing priorities. Right. It's like when we try and schedule Mugglecast. There's so many other things going on in people's lives that it's just tough for us to find a time to sit down and record. But.

[Micah]

Right. We barely all made it on this week.

[Andrew]

It is true.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

We need Hermione's solution, which I really enjoyed reading because it positions her as potentially being a Ravenclaw or having some very strong Ravenclaw qualities because when she shares that she used a Protean charm on the Dumbledore's army coins. Terry Boot, who is in Ravenclaw, asks why she wasn't placed there. And Hermione says that the Sorting Hat considered it but ultimately placed her into Gryffindor. So I'm curious, why did the Sorting Hat opt for Gryffindor instead? And I think it'd be fun to make the case for her being in Ravenclaw.

[Eric]

Well, I think she's proven herself at this point to be a brave person. So I think maybe that comes into play. The Sorting Hat was thinking about Saul Bravery in her. I don't know if she exhibited cases of bravery in the past.

[Micah]

Yeah, I mean it's very easy to say because she reads a lot that she'd make a great Ravenclaw. But I seem to recall some discussion throughout the years being that perhaps sorting is based on what your values are more than what your personality is. Strictly. So what she says to Harry in book one books and cleverness, there are greater things really shows that her values align with the traits that Gryffindors are known for. So maybe that's it, why she was placed by the Hat in there.

[Laura]

I do find it interesting that she notes that the Hat picked Gryffindor ultimately and that it wasn't her choice because Harry got to choose so.

[Micah]

Well, he's the chosen choosing one.

[Laura]

Yeah, but wasn't it determined that in a Hat Stall situation you get to choose?

[Micah]

I think that's right.

[Eric]

At what level do you hit Hat Stall though? I mean, if the Sorting Hat's just going back and forth like eeny, meeny, miny, moe. I don't know. I think the Sorting Hat has to declare Hat Stall. And that's when you get to pick.

[Micah]

Yeah, there's like a bell or a whistle that nobody hears that comes out canon once every couple of years.

[Laura]

Yeah, I don't think that's.

[Eric]

I don't know if that's canon, but I could see Hermione just sitting there and waiting for the Hat to decide rather than trying to influence the Sorting Hat like Harry did.

[Micah]

Well, a hat stall is very much a Pottermore thing anyway, so it happened post seven books, even though we learn about other characters that were supposedly hatstalls historically. Yeah. I think it is canon now though, that everyone gets the same type of long conversation that Harry had with the Hat where you hear his internal thoughts. Ah, better be Gryffindor.

[Eric]

Six hour sorting ceremony for 50 students.

[Micah]

Strong mind.

[Eric]

Oh, that would be so boring though, if you have to sit there and wait for the Hat to deliberate through all these people.

[Micah]

That's literally what Hermione like. It sounds like the Hat did that.

[Eric]

Oh, painful. I'd be one thing if you could hear the Hat deliberating like everybody else in the Great hall could hear the Hat deliberating. But they can't, right?

[Laura]

That would be mortifying if they can't imagine.

[Eric]

And you once picked your nose, which suggests you are Hufflepuff.

[Micah]

Hey, look, it's okay if Hufflepuffs say it.

[Andrew]

That hat is so dirty too. The longer it stays on your head.

[Micah]

I bet the Hat appreciated Hermione's clean teeth.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Oh, I don't know why.

[Eric]

Good personal hygiene.

[Andrew]

I think there's a certain amount of bravery too in the fact that she is a Muggle born coming to Hogwarts. She doesn't make any apologies for it. She's also not hesitant at all about confronting those who may throw insults her way. So I can understand why she was initially put into Gryffindor. But clearly the Hat detected her Intellect as well. I was curious though, if she was placed into Ravenclaw, would she have a different opinion of Luna? Luna is Ginny's year, so would have been one year younger but still would have spent a decent amount of time with her and maybe wouldn't be so confrontational.

[Micah]

That's interesting because Hermione and Luna are still such different characters to me. Either Luna would grow on Hermione or I can actually see it going the other way. She could think of Luna the way that Harry still thinks of like Colin Creevey, like that weird kid who's younger than me and always following me around. Like I can see Hermione, even if she were Ravenclaw, kind of avoiding Luna at all costs because Luna does not represent the textbook traditional version of Ravenclaw that you would read about. She's a much different, interesting kind of Ravenclaw.

[Laura]

You know, though, I. I kind of feel like Luna is an outcast in her own house. So I actually think Hermione would probably treat her just about the same because it seems like that's how the rest of Ravencl treats her. They hide her things from her. Why? Yeah, they all think she's weird too.

[Eric]

All it would take though is one bonding moment in the common room for Hermione to change her opinion on Luna. I have to also think that by being in the same house they would inherently. Hermione would inherently be a little bit nicer. Not to say that Hermione is always nice to Gryffindors, thinking of feuds with Ron first and foremost, but Seamus or Lavender?

[Micah]

Well, Ron deserves it, but you have a good point.

[Eric]

Yeah, I just. I just think there would be a bit of an advantage there for Luna if they were in a house together. Hermione. Hermione maybe might think, how crazy could she be if we got sorted into the same space?

[Micah]

By year five, Hermione will have exhausted all the Ravenclaw's books and she'd be looking for more books. And then she's gonna find the Quibbler and Luna's gonna give her all the back issues.

[Andrew]

We keep talking about Luna as the Outcast, but Hermione may very well have been an Outcast as well, just because she nearly was.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

How smart she is. I'm not sure how likely fellow Ravenclaws would take to her within her own year. We know that obviously she becomes very good friends with Ron and Harry, but what's the likelihood that she would have formed those types of friendships with others in Ravenclaw? It's hard to say.

[Micah]

Yeah, I think the fact that she's in Gryffindor actually brings out that social aspect of her and that's a good thing for Hermione's character because you can retreat into a book and I think growing up in Ravenclaw would probably encourage her in some ways to do that and put always academics and learning first. Being in Gryffindor and having to navigate sort of the friendship with Ron and Harry in the earliest months of Year one really formed that more social and therefore socially responsible aspect of Hermione character.

[Laura]

You know, Eric, you said something earlier that I really loved about how, you know, how how we're sorted is really based more on values.

[Micah]

I wish I could remember where I last heard that.

[Laura]

But yeah, I said it. I mean, you might have. I'm not sure. But like, what I love about it is we see in Hermione and Luna two very different representations of what a Ravenclaw could be, which suggests that very holistic, values based approach to sorting. So to me it kind of feels like Luna by virtue of her intellectual openness to learning new things and to giving new concepts a chance and not immediately writing them off. That's a very important kind of intelligence. So I would assert that that's probably the reason that Luna ends up in Ravenclaw. Whereas if Hermione had ended up there, I think it would have been more of that stereotypical bookish, highly academic, competitive spirit that would have landed her there. So I just think it's so interesting that you can have two characters who represent the same values just in very different ways.

[Micah]

That's a great point.

[Andrew]

And speaking of the coins that Hermione does charm, she mentions that she draws inspiration for them from the Dark Mark tattoos that Lord Voldemort uses for his Death Eaters. So is this an example of something good coming from something evil?

[Micah]

Yes. Yeah. And it shows that certain magic is maybe value neutral or can be at least accessed by both sides.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

And I think we see examples across the series of Hermione's bad side poking out from time to time, getting a little. Getting a little mischievous where maybe we wouldn't expect. Yeah, I was thinking that word. I didn't want to use it. Well.

[Andrew]

We'Re not into Half Blood Prince.

[Eric]

Just yet, but I do think she has her moments where she's more inclined to break the rules. And she's not breaking the rules here, but she's letting her dark side come out in this moment. And if the Death Eaters have come up With a good communication system, with the dark mark, why not use it on the good side, too?

[Laura]

Yeah. And honestly, they're very many historical examples of this happening in secret societies, both on the light and dark side of history, communicating through coded messages and very ingenious contraptions that are used to communicate. So this is another example of something in Harry Potter that's kind of lifted straight out of reality.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Let's not forget, though, that the Order also has a way of communicating. It's not by physically branding their members, but they do use Patronus to communicate, which we'll find out a little bit later on. So it's actually really impressive on the part of Hermione that she thinks about creating a way that all of them can communicate, but in a way that really no one would notice. I think that's what's so great about this is I know there's jokes about Ron and the fact that he actually has money. And so that in and of itself may surprise some people, but just the fact that, yeah, most people have change in their pockets, or at least they did back in the 90s. So we all have credit cards now. I know.

[Micah]

Oh, that's where you're going with that. Okay.

[Eric]

But let's talk about this whole coin idea in particular.

[Andrew]

You don't like it?

[Eric]

I don't like it because this is what's bugging me this week.

[Andrew]

Oh, not bugging Micah.

[Eric]

What's bugging Andrew? A coin is so easy to lose. And I'm not saying that somebody would find it and then figure out the hidden date and time on the coin, but we've all been there where we've left something in our pocket, and maybe we pull something else out of our pocket, and then that coin falls out along with it. A $5 bill falls out along with it, and then it's lost. Yeah, it might go through the wash. A coin is just so small and easy to lose. I don't think it's the best item to use.

[Laura]

I would lose it. Yeah, instantly.

[Micah]

Oh, man. Give yourself some credit. Look, if Neville doesn't. Look, if. If Neville doesn't lose his. Then it's not an easy item to lose.

[Eric]

That is shocking. Maybe Hermione put some glue on his so it wouldn't leave his pocket.

[Micah]

There's a little string on his string.

[Eric]

Yeah. Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Evglis. After an initial dosing phase of 16.

[Laura]

Weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch. Relief and clear or almost clear skin.

[Eric]

And most of those people maintain skin.

[Laura]

That'S still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Eric]

A 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis. Before starting Epgliss. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about eiss and visit.

[Laura]

Ebis.Lily.Com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Andrew]

So the big focal point of this chapter is really the Gryffindor vs Slytherin Quidditch match and all that it entails. And this is Ron's first big go at being seek or sorry, being keeper on the Gryffindor Quidditch team. And he is really anxious about this match, so much so that he won't touch breakfast, which for Ron, we all know Go Boy likes to eat, right? So something's wrong with him if he won't even touch food. But I feel like we've all been in his shoes before, right?

[Eric]

Oh, yeah.

[Andrew]

Anxiety can be crippling under any circumstance. Doesn't have to just be pertaining to performing in a big sporting event. It can be literally anything. And I felt for Ron in this moment. Anybody else?

[Eric]

Oh, yeah, me too. Going into like maybe a big presentation, a job interview, a date, maybe even like a family event. Anxiety comes up in a lot of different ways that can cripple you and might even prevent you from eating even just like a busy workday. I was very busy yesterday. By 3pm I was like, wow, I haven't eaten anything yet today.

[Laura]

Yeah. And I mean, it's just amplified by the fact that he's not quite ready yet. Like, we've seen Ron kind of struggling at practices and he gets there eventually, as we know, but at this point in time, he's not ready and he knows he's not ready. So that just makes it so much worse.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And it is interesting to see how Harry reacts because another big piece of this is the fact that on top of Ron being very anxious about this Quidditch match, he's being taunted, he's being teased by Slytherin and Harry has had this experience since he started at Hogwarts. So this is nothing new to him. He can pretty much shrug it off and he actually throws it back in their face at one point in this chapter. But it is interesting to see the different dynamic where you have Harry who's been through this for a number of years and really doesn't let it shake him versus Ron, who this is his first matchup and it's clearly having an impact on him.

[Eric]

And it's not just playing Quidditch merely. I mean there's multiple layers here. He's playing Quidditch against Slytherin, who he hates. He's playing with his teammates who he wants to impress. He's playing basically on a stage in front of the rest of the school. Performing in front of other people is nerve, nerve wracking in and of itself. But then you're also trying to score a win for Gryffindor and it's your first game and you're not too confident in your skills. Like there's a lot here to stress you out.

[Micah]

Brothers are on the team. Also, if we go back to Mirror, Vera said Ron's deepest desire of his heart was to be successful at Quidditch.

[Eric]

And now he has to prove it to himself.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

He has to prove he deserves it. Yeah. But he's, he's definitely haggard to. Well, haggard's back later on. But also Ron is, is very haggard and he. I kind of have a joke like reading this. Ron just looks deathly ill and I kind of joked that after he's in his head this whole chapter, after he goes for his long walk, he should be able to see Thestrals because he's looked at the face of death literally this whole chapter. He's just terrified, terror stricken, stricken about his performance. So we'll have to see if that's.

[Andrew]

I do think that can demonstrate how impactful anxiety can be on somebody even in a situation like this where we would look at it as readers and say, oh, in the grand scheme of things it's not that big of a deal. But for a 15 year old who as was described is trying to really go out there and impress his peers and not mess up in front of the entire school against presumably your house's biggest rival. That's a lot to put on the shoulders of somebody like Ron, and I'm sure if I was in his shoes, I would be going through the exact same emotions.

[Eric]

I agree.

[Andrew]

Now, let's have a little bit of a debate about what falls into the gamesmanship category versus what falls into the bullying category. Because there's quite a bit that goes on during this match. And I'm curious, where do we feel the line gets crossed or do we feel like Draco is acting within reason? Now, for me, I would argue that the psychological component of this is masterful on the part of Draco. He's getting inside of the head of the newest Gryffindor team member, who, outside of Harry, has arguably the most important job on the team. Because if Ron can't protect the goal, that's a major problem. So I actually don't see Draco doing anything wrong within the context of the match itself, because in sports you do see opposing teams, fans, wearing, saying, chanting, all sorts of antagonizing things. So it comes down to where we all feel the line is.

[Eric]

Well, maybe it is a failure of Hogwarts and the rules around Quidditch to have allowed this rather than blaming it on Draco. But I think it's different in this situation. It is inappropriate because they are kids and Weasley is specifically in this song. They are targeting one particular person with this song. It's just very direct.

[Micah]

Gryffindor is going to get crushed.

[Eric]

Right, right.

[Micah]

They can't find their ass with the shovel or Michael.

[Eric]

Appreciate this. I watch football games these days and when a team's like, really losing, you start hearing them go, oh. It's like imply the joke or the implication is that it's over for the losing team. So if they were doing something like that. Yeah, I think I have that right.

[Micah]

Oh, God, yeah. That.

[Laura]

That's the thing. It's like when it's collective ribbing, I think that's acceptable. If it's like, oh, boo, Gryffindor, you guys suck. Kind of like what was said before, that's one thing. But to specifically target one student like that, not okay. I mean, they're, they, they're not athletes making the big bucks. Like, when they're out there, when they're out there raking their money in, they're probably gonna have thicker skin to be able to take it. But not right now. It's not appropriate.

[Eric]

And it's his first game.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

I just think it's like, really interesting how extra this is. How much trouble Draco went through to execute this entire thing. He had to write a song. He had to teach it to the other Slytherins. I imagine late nights in common rooms. He's like, no. And he doesn't play teacher. Three, four, one, two. Yeah. Yeah. And he has little badges made for everybody. Like. I think Draco cares for Ron. I don't know. He puts a lot of thought and time and effort into destroying him.

[Eric]

Got a hate crush on him.

[Micah]

I. It's something. It's. If you really look at it, this is all designed to deflect from Draco's own inadequacies, his own Quidditch inadequacy, that.

[Andrew]

It'S clear his talents lay elsewhere from the footage pitch. Because he's not good as a Seeker.

[Micah]

No. He can't face off against. He's. He's never won a match against.

[Andrew]

At least against Harry is. We don't. I. I don't know what his success rate is against the other.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

I assume he caught his snitch once or twice. Broken clock and all that. But he's never won against Harry. And so instead he's going to focus on being as mean as possible or giving his team an advantage not by being the best Seeker but by demoralizing the. The other team's keeper and allowing his team to score. So that's. It's. It's all a big like smokescreen so that everyone's talking about Ron and nobody's talking about him.

[Andrew]

I also think though that Draco may be looking at the larger picture here. And we'll talk a little bit about this when we get to him. Antagoniz the Weasley twins and Harry after the match is over. But he's very good at knowing what he can get away with and he knows that these pins that he creates. We saw an iteration of them in Goblet of Fire. That's probably not crossing the line. The song. There's probably different verses you could pull out or different lines that you could pull out that do cross the line. But overall within the grand scheme of an actual sporting event going on and the fact that you have the entire Slytherin section singing it. He likely can get away with that. And he's not the one that is conducting it. Right. Isn't it Pansy at the end of the day is doing it so it doesn't actually fall on his shoulders. And I think his ultimate goal in all of this is to try and get the Gryffindor Quidditch team banned to Try and get Harry banned because he knows that if they're out of the picture, even if they lose this match, the likelihood of Slytherin being able to win at the end of the year is much greater.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

And he's right. I mean, it works in terms of getting Harry banned.

[Laura]

I also would not be surprised if Umbridge had her hands in this as well and kind of put Draco up to it.

[Andrew]

Sausage fingers.

[Eric]

She's the. The Kermit meme. Do it.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

Do it.

[Micah]

Well, that's. That's an interesting point, because she does. We keep getting confirmation that she really has it out for the Gryffindor Quidditch team.

[Eric]

And she's wearing Slytherin green, right?

[Andrew]

Yeah, she is.

[Micah]

Yeah. Makes her look even more like a toad. Now.

[Andrew]

It was her house, as we know.

[Laura]

Yeah. But to be honest, I think both Umbridge and Draco wanted Harry not to be able to play Quidditch for maybe different reasons, but they both wanted it.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

So I.

[Micah]

Sometimes the odds are too great.

[Laura]

Yeah. It just feels like. Especially knowing how close they do get over the course of this book with the Inquisitorial Squad and everything, I just. I feel like she was orchestrating some of that.

[Andrew]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. Let's not forget what she does at the very beginning of the book. Right.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Preemptive strike.

[Andrew]

This would not be something that I would put past her at all. But one thing that I did notice when I was going through this chapter, and it was kind of in the back of my head because I remember it getting brought up, that Quidditch in particular was very challenging for the author to write. I enjoyed reading it in this chapter, but I could understand why it would be a challenge. And so I was curious if the rest of you felt that way. Do you think it doesn't come across well. Can only be in one instance, in one book.

[Micah]

For me, it always works. It always works. I always like reading it. I understand how, from a writing standpoint, it can be difficult to, like, diversify and make a different. Make a match, like, really stand out. But I have no notes whatsoever about how Quidditch is executed throughout the entire book series. I just. I really like it.

[Eric]

For me, I just. Look, I enjoy Quidditch. I think it's cool. It's exciting, it's fun. I do skim through the Quidditch scenes. I'm looking out for some key details, but I'm kind of moving through it faster than I'm reading the rest of the chapter just because it is fast moving and a little hard for me to follow. And what am I getting out of it, really? Quidditch match.

[Andrew]

Sports, bro.

[Eric]

Sport. Oh, yeah. Oh, I should be singing that while reading. Maybe that'll make it more interesting to me. No, but I just need to know who wins and if anything pivotal happens.

[Andrew]

That's fair.

[Laura]

That's my thing. I love reading Quidditch when there's some kind of focal point that has to do with the greater story also happening during Quidditch. Like Weasley Is Our King. This is a great chapter. Also Dementors, for example, in Prisoner of Azkaban. But I'll be honest, if it's simply a Quidditch match that has no defining, like, story arc moment apart from Gryffindor won or Gryffindor lost, I don't care as much about those. I think it kind of comes across, especially the later you get in the series, how much she did not enjoy writing these scenes. So it kind of comes across in the way you read too. Also, Quidditch as a sport really doesn't make a lot of sense. That's why they had to adjust it for Quidditch Champions that came out last year. Like, they had to kind of balance the rules. Because Quidditch, when you really think about it, and Micah, you probably know better than anyone else here, there's a lot about it that's like, not. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Andrew]

I do like what you're saying, though, because if you look to the last book, yeah, we get the Quidditch World cup, but that's it. She basically writes Quidditch out of the rest of Goblet of Fire because there's the Triwizard Tournament. So that's a convenient loophole for her to not have to write about Quidditch. But you would anticipate that she would, though, right? Because they have one of the best known Quidditch players in the world in Viktor Krum at Hogwarts, but yet we only get him in the first couple of chapters of Goblet of Fire and then Order the Phoenix Harry gets banned from Quidditch. So that helps to not have him involved. Obviously, Ron is. But yeah, it's. It's interesting. But it's cool that there was a sport that was invented and that we do get the chance to read it.

[Eric]

Fair enough.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

You know, it's no Gobstones, but it's something. Let's not forget there was an entire college sport that was created out of Quidditch. One of the challenges for Harry in this matchup is not Slytherin, it's Ron and his performance. And Harry's performance actually starts to be affected because of Ron's struggles throughout the course of this match. And of course, it is lucky at the end of the day that Harry ends up catching the Snitch. But it does show you how one teammate's performance, or lack thereof, can have an impact on another, especially when that person is one of your closest friends.

[Eric]

Yeah, he naturally wants to look out for Ron, but what's funny about this is that if Harry actually kept his eye on the ball or the Snitch, he may have been able to end the game faster, meaning he would end Ron suffering faster as well. But by just staring at Ron and like getting focused on this chant, he's slowing down the potential end of the match and letting Slytherin win potentially.

[Laura]

You know what I think is funny? I wonder if Ron was kind of doing the same thing and focusing on Harry being like, please catch the Snitch, man.

[Eric]

Just end this shoe. Go, go look for it.

[Micah]

It's sad to see, honestly, because, like, the first one that gets in, the first goal that gets in was right through the middle hoop. And from what little I've played of Quidditch champions, I know that the middle hoop is the easiest one to defend. So that's a low blow. And in general, just Ron's dealing with everything. He's. He's overwhelmed.

[Andrew]

Laura, you have a real world analogy.

[Laura]

Yeah. So, yeah, clearly Harry, I guess, hasn't heard like a pre flight safety instruction video. Put your oxygen mask on before helping others like Harry. What are you doing? You can't help him. There's nothing you can do for him right now.

[Micah]

Well, it's the Beaters job, right? To get if you have a weak keeper, you have to weaken the opposing team's chasers. And the way you do that is with Bludgers. So there are teammates that can help Ron, but Harry's not one of them.

[Laura]

Yeah, they're his brothers. I.

[Micah]

But the problem here is that Harry just is so hurt by the fact that this is happening to his friend.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And I don't think he can believe how extra it all is either.

[Laura]

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.

[Micah]

Yeah. The one line that doesn't work for me, by the way, and the whole chant is, weasley was born in a bin. That to me is a bit extra. That is just the particular, like, particularly low classism. It's not what you would find in an average school chant, it's not the line you want all the students repeating and repeating and repeating. I think it should be off the table.

[Andrew]

It does feel very 90s teen melodrama to me, though.

[Eric]

The song on a whole or just the line?

[Andrew]

The line.

[Micah]

Well, Weasley was born in a bin.

[Andrew]

No, I mean the song too.

[Micah]

Mm.

[Andrew]

It's not out of place. I agree with you. It is extra and it's certainly not something that should be said. But look, I mean, they could have stopped. There are adults present that could have stopped it. Stopped it. And they. None of them chose to.

[Micah]

I mean, yeah.

[Andrew]

Presumably the entire staff is present. Right?

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Honestly. Yeah. The. The. The lack of action from any of the adults. That entire match is deafening.

[Laura]

Yeah, well, I mean, how Umbridge reacts here in the next few pages, we're gonna cover singing. Yeah, that. That's the funny thing. This whole. I mean, bullying session was happening in front of the entire school and she said nothing, but she's gonna lose her mind over someone defending his mother's honor, you know?

[Andrew]

Right.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Well, we will get to the aftermath of Gryffindor versus Slytherin in just a few moments, but first we need to take a quick break and we'll be right back. This Friday from Disney, the musical movie.

[Eric]

Event of the year arrives in theaters.

[Micah]

My name is Snow White.

[Eric]

Flawless.

[Micah]

Exquisite.

[Eric]

Get tickets now. Snow White will have you on your feet.

[Andrew]

I think that's a wonderful idea.

[Eric]

And cheering for more.

[Micah]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Eric]

Experience. The magical story.

[Micah]

Magic mirror on the wall. Who's the fairest one of all?

[Andrew]

Snow White.

[Eric]

Disney. Snow White. Only in theaters Friday. Rated pg. Parental guidance. Suggested tickets on sale now. We're so done with New Year.

[Laura]

New you.

[Eric]

This year it's more you on Bumblebee. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want.

[Laura]

And you know what?

[Eric]

We love that for you. Someone else will too. Be more you this year and find them on Bumble.

[Andrew]

Alright, well, as Laura alluded to earlier, usually there are bigger plot points to these Quidditch matches than just the matches themselves. And boy, do we get a showdown post Gryffindor Slytherin between Draco, George and Harry. And Draco really uses the opportunity to verbally assault Molly and Arthur. He calls Molly fat and ugly. He calls Arthur a useless loser. And he talks about the Burrow, the fact that it stinks and perhaps Harry doesn't notice that the burrow stinks because Harry's mother's house stank as well.

[Micah]

The implication being because she's Muggle born.

[Andrew]

Exactly. Now that's the straw that breaks the camel's back because there's a lot of restraint that's happening prior to this. But once that line gets delivered, all bets are off. And honestly, we're talking about teenagers. So as much as they may want to restrain themselves or have their friends restrain them, at some point, stuff's going to go down, right?

[Eric]

Yeah. We even see this in adult sporting events. Hockey, football. These guys can't control their tempers and they start fighting, which I always find so immature when you're getting paid. But you know, like we were talking about earlier, you shouldn't have to put up with this type of thing. You shouldn't have to put up with this type of taunting when you're a student, just doing this for fun. And of course, these things that Draco says are really awful.

[Micah]

Yeah. They have no place in the kind of world in which good people live. Like, it's you. You can make the case, oh, it's talking, whatever. But Malfoy, who is an extremely privileged individual, he's saying all this with impunity. He's saying all this with absolutely no repercussions coming his way. And I think it would inspire any reasonable person's attempt at fighting for the honor of the people that he continues to slight and to really put him in his place. It needs to happen. He's just going to keep behaving this way because he's been allowed full reign to do so up until this point.

[Andrew]

Yeah, he really has.

[Laura]

Yeah. I feel like I, and I think I've said this before, I'm never an advocate for violence. I think it's wrong. However, there are some people like Draco who have never been on the receiving end of someone's physical reaction to their bs. And it shows. People who have never faced the consequences for running off at the mouth about things they shouldn't be doing usually end up finding out. Draco has not found out yet.

[Eric]

But the thing that gets me about this, and the reason I'm not okay with Harry physically fighting Draco is because McGonagall has told him twice now to not give Umbridge any excuses to punish him. And I know tempers are high, but he needs to keep that in mind or else he's going to get in trouble again in front of the whole school.

[Laura]

Yeah, but I, I'm just thinking about the Fact that these are teenagers and their mothers are being insulted by someone who has sour grapes that they just lost a game.

[Eric]

So how about just returning his verbal attacks with your own verbal attacks? Why get physical?

[Laura]

Sure, I fully agree with you. And I think if someone were talking smack about my mom to me today at 36 years old, I think I'm a little more equipped to deal with that in a more rational way. But when you're a teenager and your hormones are all over the place and tensions are high, like, I'm not saying it's right, but it makes total sense that it happened.

[Micah]

I think if a 15 year old insulted my mom today, I would still hit them.

[Eric]

I would be like, you're an immature, stupid brat. I'm ignoring you. I think you're in the neighborhood. You see, kids say stupid stuff. You just let it go.

[Micah]

You want to believe that you'd be above it, but Draco just knows how to push the buttons. That's why he does it.

[Eric]

I'll give him credit for that.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And Laura, you said you wouldn't be surprised if somebody in particular instigated this or maybe planted the seed inside of Draco's head.

[Laura]

Totally. I think it makes a lot of sense. They have a shared goal. Right. And we already know that Draco is predisposed to, you know, saddling up to whoever's going to make Harry's life more difficult. Think about Rita Skeeter last year. Draco is still very much operating under the mentality of like, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Like, he doesn't see Umbridge for the danger she presents at this point, because the consequences haven't really reared their ugly head yet. They will in a couple years.

[Micah]

She's. She's punishing the right people for him to please him.

[Laura]

And I mean, again, she's under secretary to Fudge. Fudge is in Lucius's pocket. Is really easy to connect the dots. I'm like Charlie Day over here with my yarn board.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we should get you a yarn board that you can put up. I would.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Connecting those threads.

[Laura]

I would do it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So I guess we never get a proper handshake line after the Quidditch match, which usually happens in most sports. Not all of them, but that is usually a pleasantry that's observed by teams afterwards. But not in the same.

[Micah]

Yeah. When I was in T Ball, all the kids would try and squeeze the hands as hard as possible.

[Eric]

Yeah, it'd be a fun way to tease each other.

[Andrew]

And let's not forget Harry's also coming. We played the Time Turner segment earlier. He's coming off of getting hit in the small of the back with a Bludger after the match was over. And we're gonna talk about punishment and how it is doled out on the part of one Dolores Umbridge. But somebody else is ready to dole out some punishment for Harry and George. And it's McGonagall. She is not happy at all with these two. And she's ready to give them a week's worth of detention. But not under Umbridge's watch. Because Dolores is about to enter the room and flex her authority muscle. She's passed a new educational decree giving her authority to do so. And this. As if the end of the Quidditch match wasn't deflating enough now we have to watch Umbridge dole out her punishment to George, Harry and Fred, by the way. And we'll talk about that, because that's just bs.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

No. You don't think so? Well, we'll get to it. But one thing that I found really interesting was that we learn in this chapter that Umbridge was planning to not allow the Gryffindor Quidditch team to reform in the first place. And McGonagall went over her head to Dumbledore and got that all sorted out. Now, I mean, I know why, but it's really not fair.

[Eric]

No, it's not fair. And I'm glad that.

[Andrew]

What reasoning do you have?

[Eric]

And I'm glad McGonagall and Dumbledore worked together to fix the situation. And I wanted to highlight that they did fix the situation behind the scenes. And I just wanted to point this out because this underscores a previous point I think I've made in recent weeks that Dumbledore is doing stuff behind the scenes. He's not sitting there twiddling his. His thumbs in his office doing absolutely nothing.

[Micah]

I think he's mostly doing that. I think he's mostly twiddling his thumbs. Then occasionally somebody is loud enough that he has to pay attention.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Andrew]

I think his hands are tied to some extent, though.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

In all of this. So he's very. I mean, we all know he's a very smart man. I think he's very cautious in terms of playing his hand.

[Eric]

Yeah. And he doesn't want to rock the boat too much.

[Micah]

Yes. He is a pick your battles kind of guy, for sure.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

It just shows, like, what's really going on here. Blatant favoritism. Blatant sabotaging of the people that, umbridge, doesn't like are getting punished. And you know, Dumbledore, much like he did with Harry's trial showed up, said his bit and proved that Umbridge did not have a leg to stand on. And you know it's only the last time because now there's an educational decree giving Umbridge the authority that she did not have earlier when she tried to not reinstate Gryffindor. So it's a real shame because it's essentially she made Dumbledore get involved about this small thing and it actually ended up pointing. She credits McGonagall with pointing out to her how deficient her power was before. So what are you going to do?

[Andrew]

I don't know.

[Laura]

Yeah, well that's her thing, right? It's like she comes up against one barrier. Oh, I'm not allowed to do that here. Okay, let me just go pass another educational degree and we'll fix that. I mean that's the approach and the.

[Andrew]

Consequence in all of this is not just detention. It's a lifetime ban from playing Quidditch at Hogwarts which seems so extreme. And the reason why I said this is this is a physical altercation following a sporting event where Beaters and Bludgers are a real thing. And Andrew, you said this before, fights happen in sports all the time. I think suspension, sure, detention, okay, but banning them for life. I couldn't even probably point to a situation in sports where that's happened.

[Eric]

Does the Wizarding world. I guess they do they have a judicial branch. I feel like this is one of those things that if it got challenged in the courts it wouldn't actually pass. And the reason I say this is because lifetime ban from an educational decree. When Harry leaves Hogwarts, he's still banned from Quidditch. Is that what we're made to prove?

[Micah]

Look, the punishment has to fit the crime. It has to, you know, be a proportional response. She absolutely cannot affect post academic career in, in, in, in Umbridge's capacity as High Inquisitor of Hogwarts. She can't touch Harry after he leaves Hogwarts. She can't do it. Right.

[Laura]

She wants, she wants to make it a lifetime ban so that he can never come back as an adult.

[Eric]

And I think just from a storytelling perspective the extreme decision here, a lifetime ban is meant to just be emblematic of how powerful Umbridge thinks she is. She is all knowing. She is all powerful. She can do anything, including lifetime bans from anything.

[Andrew]

But she's picking on students. At the end of the day, that's what's so comical about all this? She thinks she has all this power and. And I guess in a way she does, but she's getting her highs off of making students lives miserable, kids lives miserable.

[Micah]

Well, she doesn't have a lot of maturity. That's just where she is.

[Laura]

No, I mean, it's clear she's a miserable person. I mean, if you make your entire life's mission about making other people's lives miserable, there's probably something to that call is coming from inside the house.

[Andrew]

Yeah, she could use something, but. And we'll talk about that. Fred. Fred also receives a lifetime ban, though he did not participate. You can't look, is she afraid that he's going to try and switch places with George?

[Eric]

Oh, actually that's a great theory. That makes sense.

[Micah]

I love that. But that's even worse. Legally, from a legal perspective, if he didn't do the crime, he can't do the time.

[Eric]

Yeah, but see, Humbridge is right. He is going to do some sort of crime next Quidditch game to get back at her banning George.

[Micah]

Even if that were true, you can't imprison people before they do the crime.

[Eric]

Fred. Apps, I'm with Umbridge here. Fred absolutely would have retaliated in some way at the next Quidditch game, if not sooner. And by pre banning, let's call it Fred from Quidditch for life as well. This gets ahead of the issue and keeps him behaving better than he would otherwise. Because maybe there's a part of Fred and George and Harry that think, well, if I stay on her good side for X amount of time, she'll unban us from Quidditch.

[Micah]

This is as bad a call as like putting all the Slytherins in the dungeons. Yeah, like absolutely meritless behavior, like prejudice and just not at all.

[Eric]

She's doing them a favor though, because by being banned from Quidditch now they have time to work on their business.

[Micah]

Now they can try and make her life more miserable.

[Laura]

Well, malicious compliance.

[Andrew]

I do want to talk about that in just a minute, but let's talk about Crab for a second. Because when we're talking about punishing students for things that they did during. Actually, not even during. After this match was over, Crab only ends up receiving lines for assaulting Harry with a Bludger after the match was over. So it's very clear how punishment is being distributed here because. Because if I were McGonagall, I would have strongly advocated that if Harry, Fred and George are being banned, Crabbe should be as well, no reason why he should not have received the same punishment.

[Micah]

But the newest educational decree makes it so that Umbridge, who has the supreme authority, doesn't ever need to be challenged on these wrong calls. She doesn't ever need to come up with some kind of rubric for how a more extreme behavior warrants a more extreme, you know, kind of retaliation. She just 100% gets to choose and decide what the punishment is. And so she's playing favorites.

[Eric]

I'm also blaming Hooch here too, because shouldn't she have blown the whistle on Crab and punished him in some way? Surely she has authority too. I know the game was over, but.

[Laura]

We have seen her do that before too.

[Andrew]

So she was dealing with him, though, when the melee broke out. And she's the one who actually hits Harry with the spell that gets him off of Draco.

[Eric]

But yeah, so all the more reason for her to punish him.

[Andrew]

Are there other referees too?

[Micah]

Well, because the. Well, there. Yeah, there should be a lot more refs in this game. A game with 14 players that are.

[Eric]

On the huge field. I mean, in football, right, Micah? I mean, all the referees on the field.

[Andrew]

Oh, my God, so many referees.

[Eric]

So many.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Well, Umbridge ends up deflating the entire mood of Gryffindor House despite their win over Slytherin. And Ron comes back, he's deflated and he's been out traipsing through the snow. We talked about his anxiety earlier despite them winning. He just thinks he did a terrible job. And let's everybody down because he let a couple goals through. I say, what did Oliver Wood do in his first match as keeper? Let's compare. I'm sure Ron didn't do that bad of a job at the end of the day, but I wanted to wrap up by asking. And this actually ties into the point that was brought up earlier about Fred and George getting to spend more time on their joke shop. By banning Harry from Quidditch, does Umbridge unknowingly give him more time to plot.

[Micah]

Against her and more incentive?

[Eric]

Well, definitely more incentive, but even if she was worried that he would be doing such a thing, I think she's feeling pretty confident at this point that she could catch him plotting against her. Maybe that's also her ego.

[Micah]

Power hungry. Yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well, now that she has access to the fireplaces and she's intercepting people's mail, I think she probably is feeling a little overconfident and like she has eyes everywhere. Yeah, she's not that clever. She's really not.

[Andrew]

No.

[Laura]

That's why the power grab?

[Andrew]

All right, well, that wraps up the chapter by chapter discussion.

[Eric]

Well, Micah, give us some good news. I can't take it anymore. He's back already? I thought that happened later, Hagrid. Oh, who are you talking about?

[Andrew]

Oh, goodness.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Andrew]

The. The one saving grace at the end of the chapter is that Hagrid has returned. The light is on in his cabin.

[Micah]

Well, that could be anybody feeding the dog.

[Andrew]

That's true. That's actually very true.

[Micah]

No. Hermione leaps to a completely unsubstantiated conclusion. She gives Harry false hope. What if it is just like Grubbly Plank?

[Andrew]

Did anybody else have the feeling, though, that I did when reading this? Given everything that went on in this chapter? Are you almost like, who cares?

[Eric]

No, actually, I was so relieved. I was so excited from some good news.

[Micah]

Yeah, for me, it hits, right? It hits exactly as it should. Which is like, oh, a friend of ours that we were genuinely worried about is gonna be okay.

[Eric]

Well, think about reading this for the first time. Just clearly, Hagrid has been a major presence in the series thus far. And for him to be gone for so long is worrying. Not just for the trio, but for the reader, too. So to have him back amidst all this bad news, it's comforting.

[Micah]

Yeah, Rob absolutely sucks. But Hagrid is our fiercest ally for sure.

[Andrew]

All right, getting to our MVP style question of the week, I wanted to know what is our best guess at what McGonagall wanted to really say to Umbridge in her office with Harry and George present?

[Eric]

I'm gonna keep this kid friendly. I think she wanted to say, see you next Tuesday.

[Micah]

Is that a common saying?

[Eric]

Some of our adult listeners might get that, some might not. Hopefully you understand.

[Micah]

Wow.

[Eric]

I just had to explain to Eric and Micah off air.

[Micah]

Thank you. I consider myself very enlightened now. I'm very happy with that. Okay, so my McGonagall response to Umbridge, I wrote it in all caps and I'm going to try and do an impression of Jim Dale doing Dolo. Doing McGonagall. Dolores, I swear, if you hem hem one more time, I will shove a lozenge so far down your throat that the farthest reaches of Cornelius Fudge's power won't be able to get it out. I don't know.

[Eric]

That was a great analogy, too.

[Andrew]

That was good.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Well done.

[Micah]

Thank you.

[Andrew]

I decided to go with, I can turn into a cat and the possibilities are endless.

[Eric]

Scratch her up quite a bit will be my guess.

[Laura]

Cut her throat or no. Come into Our office. And one at a time, nudge each of those cat plates off the wall while making direct eye contact. Eric, you know what I'm talking about.

[Micah]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Oh, McGonagall the Menace would just be awful.

[Laura]

And I said evanesco. As in she should Evanesco on bridge. Send her where she belongs.

[Andrew]

She's the biggest piece of in the series. That's where she belongs. Good call, Laura.

[Micah]

Yeah, this chapter really makes me think. There's always an opportunity for good offensive Silencio. Right? Just literally silence an opponent. Just literally make their voice go away for a little bit.

[Andrew]

All right, well, it is now time for the links line where we asked our patrons, if you had to chant something at Malfoy to distract him while playing Quidditch, what would it be? So, turning the tables here on him and boy, did we get some good answers.

[Eric]

Rachel actually didn't have a chance, but she had another great idea. She said I wouldn't yell anything, but I'd slip a ferret into the Slytherin Quidditch locker room and arrange for as many people in the stands to have ferrets as well. Bring back some memories for Draco. Yeah, trigger him. Yes.

[Micah]

Nothing like triggering past traumas. Yes. Zachary says, always with two goons at his side Never got a motorbike ride Quite the thorn in one side Harry Potter's itch Never can catch the snitch Daddy's money can't buy a win Always caught in Harry's tail wind Harry Potter's itch Nepotism at its best he enjoys a Malkins sweater vest Never gets past the test Harry Potter's itch Daddy's money can buy the team but not talent, so it seems that's why Gryffindors all beam Harry Potter's itch Harry Potter's itch Harry Potter's itch Draco cannot catch the snitch Harry Potter's itch wow.

[Andrew]

Wow, that was really well done.

[Micah]

Yeah, I'm honestly surprised to have avoided the B word in all of those rhymes.

[Andrew]

Well, I think it was implied. I read it as being implied, honestly. Oh, okay, maybe that is not necessarily what Zach was intending, but.

[Micah]

Bravo, Zach, it works.

[Andrew]

Jen says to the tune of hey, Mickey, do we want to do this together? Hey, Malfoy, you're so fine. You're so fine you blow my mind. Hey, Malfoy. Accompanied by Slytherin cheerleaders and a fireworks display from Weasley Wizard Wheezes.

[Laura]

Oh, that was so fun.

[Andrew]

Sometimes you need to play into people's egos to distract them.

[Eric]

Great. Now that's going to be running through my head for the rest of the night. Hey, Malfoy, you're so fine. You're so fine, you blow my mind. Hey, Malfoy.

[Andrew]

Can I just say, Malfoy? Speaking of Malfoy, don't you think, Andrew, we need the Tom Felton reaction video to what happened on the White Lotus this past weekend.

[Eric]

Yes, definitely.

[Micah]

Wow.

[Eric]

There's a Tom Felton reaction video to that?

[Andrew]

No, we need one, is what I'm saying.

[Eric]

Oh, oh, oh. Okay, yes, agreed.

[Laura]

So he can be like. Father, what have you done?

[Eric]

Father, you have forsaken me.

[Laura]

What?

[Andrew]

A peacock escaped from the manor.

[Laura]

Cassandra says bottle blonde. Bottle blonde. Limp wand. Limp wand. Malfoy. Malfoy. Mama's boy. Mama's boy.

[Micah]

Nice.

[Laura]

That's. That's pretty. To the point. I like it.

[Eric]

Xavier said, malfoy, Malfoy, always loud. But your skills should make you far from proud. You think you're clever, think you're sly? But your seeker moves, they say goodbye. You can't catch the snitch, you're too slow. Your broom's more wobbly than you'd like to show. You talk a big game, you boast and jeer? But everyone knows your Quidditch skills instill fear. So keep flying high, keep acting grand. But we know you'll never take that final stand. Malfoy, Malfoy, you've had your day, but in the end you'll fade away.

[Laura]

Why am I imagining like a Thanos snap of Draco, just, like, fading away?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Oh, that would be cool. Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good. James has another rhyme. Malfoy. Malfoy cannot win despite the gold his dad puts in Fancy broomsticks don't mean shit when you're such an amateur git so taunt the others. Don't hold up. You'll never win the Quidditch Cup.

[Andrew]

Looks like I got another. Hey, Mickey. Here, Gilderoy found your all says, hey, Draco, you're full of slime. So full of slime it blows my mind. Hey, Draco. Hey, hey, Draco. Oh, Draco, what a pity you can't understand. You're a Nepo baby, not a Quidditch man. Oh, Nepo, it's not pretty. You have zero fans. It's guys like you, Nepo, you're gonna lose. Nepo. Lose Nepo? It's what you do. Nepo.

[Laura]

I love that one. And our last one comes from Kayla, who Says Malfoy Malfoy thinks he's so coy thinks he's that boy that all girls enjoy Malfoy Malfoy thinks he'll bring joy by being that boy to catch the golden toy Malfoy Malfoy we shall destroy for being that boy who only.

[Micah]

Annoys we have some very good scriveners. Well done.

[Laura]

Yeah, well done, y'all.

[Andrew]

Hey, Mickey. Seems to be the song that suits Draco so well, right?

[Eric]

Hey, Draco.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Thanks, everybody, for those contributions. And don't forget, you can participate in the links line every week by becoming a [e-mail] mugglecast and if you have any feedback about today's discussion, you can email or send a voice memo that you record on your phone to mugglecastmail.com please do send them in as soon as possible because our next Muggle Mail episode will be episode 700. And next week we'll discuss Order of The Phoenix Chapter 20, Hagrid's Tale. Because Hagrid's back and we're all very excited. Micah.

[Andrew]

And he got a tail.

[Eric]

And he got a tail.

[Micah]

Wow.

[Eric]

Not a pigtail.

[Laura]

Max, that.

[Eric]

Now it's time for quizzage.

[Micah]

This week's Quizzage question. The abbreviation DA May most commonly refer to this position as Chief Prosecutor in a United States criminal case. What is the position with those initials that has a history stretching back to 1813? The correct answer, District attorney. Some people said defense attorney. That's wrong. District Attorney. 90% of folks with the correct answer said they did not look this up. Hey, we got an easy one. And this week's winners are. A Healthy Breeze ADA Casey Novak, Krista B. Deep Cover Auror Dumbledore's Rizzler Potion. Hedwig's reproachful look at Harry Jordan, Miser Davis Hekenadon, Legal Eagle. Navy Electronics Technician Nerdy Gryffindor, Peter Johnson, the Hungry Hungry Hufflepuff. Through goes Hamilton. Tofu Tom is back.

[Andrew]

Yes.

[Micah]

And finally, try pleading the fifth on Viridisarum. Wow. Fun usernames as well this week. Here is next week's Quizzage question. What ice hockey player had a rule named after him? This is in 2008, after he displayed unsportsmanlike tactics in an attempt to intimidate goalie Martin Brodeur by waving his hands and hockey stick in his face? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzic form located on the Mugglecast website, mugglecast.com quizzitch or if you're on the website checking out transcripts or must listens or anything that you might be doing there. Click on Quizzics from the main navigation.

[Eric]

I can't believe we didn't call Quidditch Quizzage once during the discussion today. That seemed inevitable because it tends to happen on other episodes a lot. Check out our other weekly podcasts, what the Hype and Millennial for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. In our latest episode of what the Hype, Pam, Eric and I are looking at what made the Hunger Games trilogy so popular and also looking ahead to the upcoming spinoff book Sunrise on the Reaping All About Haymish during the second quarter. Quell. Very much looking forward to that new book being released this week. And on Millennial we hosted a listener feedback episode where listeners would confess some of their secrets to us and we tried to help them out as best as we millennials can. These shows are brought to you by Muggles like you, and there's lots of great ways to help us out. Visit mugglecastmerch.com to get official Mugglecast gear. And also I plugged Patreon earlier. That is the best way to help us out. Patreon.com mugglecast you can become a Mugglecast member and get access to bonus Mugglecast episodes. You can get ad free episodes, you can get early access to episodes and lots of other magical perks [e-mail] mugglecast lastly, if you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please send an owl to your Harry Potter loving friends and say hey, check out mugglecast. They're also talking about the new Harry Potter TV show that's happening. And please cast a five star review in your favorite podcast app that does it for this week's episode. Thanks everybody for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Micah]

I'm Eric.

[Andrew]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Eric]

Oh Malfoy, you're so fine. You make Wait, no, I don't want to do that one. Hold on. Hey Malfoy, you're so fine. You're so fine you blow my mind. Hey Malfoy. Bye everyone.

[Micah]

Finally got that beat.