Keep Your Friends Close And Your Beetles Closer (OOTP Chapter 25, The Beetle at Bay)

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast Episode: Keep Your Friends Close And Your Beetles Closer (OOTP Chapter 25, The Beetle at Bay) Release Date: May 6, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of MuggleCast, the hosts—Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Laura—welcome a special guest, Katie, a devoted listener and Slug Club patron. The episode delves deep into Chapter 25: "The Beetle at Bay" from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (OOTP), intertwining discussions about the book with current debates surrounding the upcoming Harry Potter TV series and broader topics within the Wizarding World.

Acknowledgement of J.K. Rowling's Controversies

Early in the episode, the hosts address the ongoing controversy surrounding J.K. Rowling's statements about the trans community. They firmly state:

"J.K. Rowling's comments and actions regarding the trans community... do not reflect the values of this podcast." ([03:12])

Eric further elaborates on Rowling's actions, including her financial support of groups opposing trans rights and her problematic statements, highlighting the podcast's commitment to fostering an inclusive fandom.

Deep Dive into Chapter 25: "The Beetle at Bay"

Mass Breakout from Azkaban and Ministry's Response

Laura introduces a poignant excerpt from the chapter, highlighting Harry's confusion over his peers' nonchalant reactions to the Azkaban breakout:

"He could not understand why his fellow students were not looking scared..." ([08:35])

The discussion draws parallels between the Ministry of Magic's denial and real-world governmental responses to crises. Micah points out:

"The Ministry's reaction... reflects real-world examples of governments denying inconvenient truths." ([10:28])

Umbridge's Educational Decrees and Control

The hosts analyze the impact of Dolores Umbridge's new educational decrees, restricting teachers from discussing topics outside their expertise. Eric criticizes this as a blatant power grab:

"This restriction... is a perfect example of how that reform is actually a horrible thing." ([12:25])

Micah adds that Umbridge's control stifles information flow within Hogwarts, creating an environment of fear and suppression.

Hermione's Strategic Move Against Rita Skeeter

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Hermione's adept maneuver to use Rita Skeeter for an alternative narrative in the Daily Prophet. Eric praises Hermione's strategy:

"Hermione is single-handedly changing the course of wizarding history... She is the only one that could do this." ([25:24])

The hosts debate the ethical implications of Hermione's actions, acknowledging her determination to unveil the truth despite the means.

Character Developments and Dynamics

• Neville Longbottom: The hosts commend Neville's growth within the Dumbledore's Army (DA), noting his increased prowess in defensive spells.

  "We have a Neville Gets Swole Spotify playlist." ([21:29])

• Harry's Struggles with Occlumency: Harry grapples with his lessons with Snape, experiencing unexplained emotions and recurring dreams about the Department of Mysteries. Micah speculates on Snape's ulterior motives, considering his role as a double agent.

• Harry and Cho's Valentine's Date: The episode humorously critiques Harry's unpreparedness for his first date with Cho, highlighting the awkward setting of Madame Puddifoot's and the subsequent fallout.

  "Harry's awkward date with Cho does come to an end when he reveals to her... Harry storms out, curses all women everywhere." ([49:09])

Notable Quotes

• Laura on Ministry Control:

  "The story that's being put out... is not being believed by the general public. They're itching for more." ([10:28])

• Eric on Hermione's Strategy:

  "Hermione is single-handedly changing the course of wizarding history." ([25:24])

• Katie on the Fallout of Umbridge's Decrees:

  "Every decree so far has clearly been rushed. They're panicked responses." ([18:05])

Listener Engagement: Links Line

MuggleCast engages with its community through the Links Line, where listeners share their creative Hogwarts gossip headlines. Examples include:

• "Irma Pince accused of selling Hogwarts's spell books to Muggles." ([67:14])
• "Hogwarts Hippocampus, where Buckbeak majors in Memory Charms." ([67:26])

Katie also participates, humorously echoing her earlier contributions.

Quizzage Segment

The podcast features a trivia segment with questions related to both the Harry Potter universe and general knowledge:

• This Week's Question:

  "What part of the human brain, in addition to aiding cognitive functions like attention and planning, also is involved with the storing of long term memories?"

  • Answer: Neocortex/Hippocampus

• Next Week's Question:

  "What prison was the site of the largest jailbreak in Britain?"

Listeners are encouraged to submit their answers via the podcast's website.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt acknowledgments, including a birthday shout-out to guest Katie. The hosts remind listeners to support the podcast through Patreon and explore their other weekly shows, What the Hype and Millennial, which cover a range of pop culture and real-world topics.

---

Notable Timestamped Quotes:

• "J.K. Rowling's comments and actions regarding the trans community... do not reflect the values of this podcast." – Laura ([03:12])

• "He could not understand why his fellow students were not looking scared..." – Katie ([08:35])

• "This restriction... is a perfect example of how that reform is actually a horrible thing." – Eric ([12:25])

• "Hermione is single-handedly changing the course of wizarding history." – Eric ([25:24])

• "Every decree so far has clearly been rushed. They're panicked responses." – Katie ([18:05])

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing insights into both the Harry Potter narrative and the podcast hosts' interpretations and discussions. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the Wizarding World, this episode offers thought-provoking analysis and engaging conversations.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Katie]

Spring savings are in the air. And at Ross, where they have savings on all the brands you love, from the latest fashion to outdoor decor and even pet supplies. Savings are in every aisle. Go to ross and save 20 to 60% off other retailers prices on your favorite spring finds.

[Eric]

Right now the Home Depot has spring deals under $20. So what are you working on? If you're planning on cooking out this season, head to the Home Depot so you can fire up the grill with deals on charcoal. Right now, get two 16 pound bags of Kingsford charcoal for only $17.88. Was $19.98. Don't miss spring deals under $20 now through May 7th at the home Depot. Subject to availability valid on select items only.

[Andrew]

Welcome to mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

We're your Harry Potter friends talking about the books, the movies, the upcoming TV show. So make sure you follow this show in your favorite podcast app and that way you will never miss an episode. And this week we are puckering up and discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 25, the Beetle at Bay. And to help us with today's discussion, we're joined by Mugglecast listener and Slug Club patron, Katie. Welcome to the show, Katie.

[Katie]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Andrew]

Yeah, our pleasure. Let's get your fandom id.

[Katie]

Absolutely. So I am a Ravenclaw. I am a Thunderbird. My favorite book is Prisoner of Azkaban. Favorite movie is Sorcerer's Stone. As far as my patronus, I am a Dolphin. And then the best place to go on a first date for me is going to be Hogsmeade still. And I want to go to Honeydukes and curate bags of sweets for each other and then go find a spot to sit and exchange and just talk about and enjoy the sweets that we've picked.

[Eric]

Oh, that's really romantic.

[Laura]

Yeah, that's very sweet.

[Andrew]

Take turns putting the sweets in each other's mouths. Maybe that's A little too much for our first date.

[Eric]

Blood pops. Why do you think I'd like this? You have horrible taste.

[Micah]

Could have given Harry some tips there, too.

[Eric]

That's true.

[Andrew]

Well, it's not too late. We have a whole chapter to discuss that. Well, welcome again, Katie. And before we go any further, we want to take a moment to acknowledge that J.K. rowling's comments and actions regarding the trans community, including the things she continues to say on X, do not reflect the values of this podcast or the spirit in which we celebrate the wizarding world. And while we continue to love the world of Harry Potter, we stand firmly with trans people and believe in fostering a fandom that is inclusive, safe and affirming for everyone. Trans rights are human rights and we will always feel this way.

[Eric]

Yeah. Five years ago on our show, we discussed in depth the problematic rhetoric and our concern for manipulative tactics being deployed by Rowling in her early social media posts about trans people. Now, in response to April's UK Supreme Court ruling clarifying the Equality act does not consider trans women to have the same legal classification as granted to cis women. Knowing that Rowling herself donated nearly $100,000 to the group that brought the lawsuit which pushed this, with Rowling publicly gloating over the decision afterward with a cigar while on her yacht in the Bahamas, it's become necessary again for us to acknowledge that the assault on transgender people's rights across the world is devastating, uninformed and not okay. Plus, the types of legal reforms that are being made will actually make all women less safe. And Rowling herself has said and done some really alarming things, even about female athletes picking fights with several of them recently, and it's just all been deeply problematic.

[Laura]

We're going to be saying more about Rowling and all of this in about a month from now. We have invited a guest on our show to discuss a new element in the discourse, and we'll be discussing Rowling's behavior a little more at that time. For now, we definitely encourage you all to check out organizations like Trans Lifeline, the Trevor project, and GLAAD's Trans Resources site for more information on how you can help protect trans people, and we will include links to these resources in the show Notes.

[Micah]

And on a related Note, Harry Potter TV's newest Snape actor Papa Esiedu, is among 400 plus signatories on an open letter to the UK film and TV industry on trans rights. The letter expresses solidarity for the trans, non, binary and intersex communities impacted by a recent UK Supreme Court ruling. The ruling and subsequent equalities and Human Rights Commission guidance will see trans people excluded from many single sex facilities which have an impact across the industry from sets to cinemas. The letter calls on industry bodies and cultural institutions to commit to protecting trans people within the industry and their respective organizations. The letter goes on to state the Supreme Court's ruling that under the Equality act, woman is defined by biological sex states that the concept of sex is binary, a person is either a man or a woman. We believe the ruling undermines the lived reality and threatens the safety of trans, non, binary and intersex people living in the uk.

[Eric]

Also signing that petition, Eddie Redmayne and Katie Long.

[Andrew]

Well, like we said, we'll have more to say on that in about a month from now. And Changing gears if you love Mugglecast and want to help us keep this show running smoother than A Date with Harry Potter, visit patreon.commmugglecast and we'd really appreciate your support there. You'll get instant access to twice monthly bonus Mugglecast episodes, add free episodes, a new physical gift every year, the chance to co host the show one day like Katie is today, and a whole lot more. We cannot do this without you. And we appreciate you like Madame Puttyfoot appreciates a good coffee. For more ways to support us and to learn more about the show, you can also visit mugglecast.com all right, now it's time for chapter by chapter and we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 25, the Beetle at Bay, which we.

[Eric]

Last discussed on episode 462 of Mugglecast way back on April 21st of 2020. This clip we're about to play also includes some cool ideas for dates for Harry and Cho.

[Laura]

Three turns should do it, I think.

[Andrew]

Good luck. What the episode 462, which, yeah, those, those are big things on a first date.

[Micah]

Totally.

[Andrew]

Or a second or third.

[Micah]

Not just about thinking up some topics of conversation, but what exactly it is that they're going to do when they go to Hogsmeade because they seem lost.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. You need some plans.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

At least say, oh, you know what, you want to go to the Three Broomsticks? You want to go, you know, to any other place but Madame Puttyfoot's?

[Katie]

Honestly.

[Micah]

Because that's where things just go off.

[Andrew]

Do you want to go ride Escape from Gringotts? What do you want to do? There's all kinds of things we could do. You can get a butterbeer, some ice.

[Eric]

Cream, take a picture by the Snowman.

[Laura]

Mysterious thing time.

[Andrew]

Oh, we'll never know what Laura thought.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Oh, well.

[Eric]

Well, you can just go back and listen to mugglecast 462 titled Creature in the Keys.

[Andrew]

That was called a cliffhanger.

[Laura]

Jumping into this week's discussion, I really wanted to set the tone for our discussion with this thought that Harry has. And I think it's a thought that actually sets the tone for the rest of this chapter. Um, so, Katie, I was wondering if you could actually read this italicized excerpt here.

[Katie]

He could not understand why his fellow students were not looking scared or at least discussing the terrible piece of news on the front page. But very few of them took the newspaper every day. Like Hermione there they all were talking about homework and Quidditch and who knew what other rubbish. And outside these walls, 10 more Death Eaters had swollen Voldemort's ranks.

[Laura]

So, yeah, the trio, and really the rest of the wizarding world are greeted with this horrifying news of a mass breakout from Azkaban, including people like Bellatrix Lestrange, including Antonin Dolahav. And we'll talk about him maybe a little bit more later. But I felt like I resonated so much with this quote because I think at various points in life, depending on what was going on in the world and how much it personally affected us, it can feel weird to look around and see life kind of continuing on as normal, as though this horrible thing isn't going on. Maybe that's like a little too real for the time period that we live in right now.

[Micah]

But I will say, Laura. Oh, the times in which we live. Because the Ministry's reaction to this mass breakout from Azkaban is reflective of real world examples of governments denying inconvenient truths. And we see this in the way that not only are they denying it, but they're not allowing the Daily Prophet to do their due diligence in terms of reporting on what happened. It's clear that the story that's being put out there, especially as this chapter goes on, is not being believed by the general public. They're itching for more.

[Katie]

It's something we're seeing today, to your point. So, you know, we see the current press secretary blaming previous administrations and just trying to avoid accountability wherever possible.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's surprising how well that sort of thing works because I think people let it or want it to work. People still want to have a belief in government institutions being good. People want to believe that those in power are magnanimous and sometimes that's not the case, as we'll see in these books and in real life.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

The business as usual point is interesting to me too because it kind of feels like something should be said to the student body at Hogwarts. Like, hey, you might have heard this news. Why isn't there a bigger announcement being made? Is it because they are protected in Hogwarts? Is it just that simple?

[Laura]

I think it might have something to do with that new educational decree that we learn about a little bit here soon. Basically saying professors cannot talk to students about things that are not directly related to their subject of expertise. Which is why we see the professors all huddled around whispering to each other over breakfast because they're not allowed to.

[Micah]

I think it has a lot to do not just with the educational decree, but with the person who's responsible for that educational decree. The fact that she is at Hogwarts in and of itself is a barrier to anybody saying anything, especially Dumbledore. Look at what Dumbledore shared at the end of last term. He had no problem telling all of the students that Voldemort was back. Now flash forward a little bit. Less than a year later, nobody is addressing the students on the fact that 10 death eaters just broke out of Azkaban. I think that has everything to do with Umbridge.

[Eric]

Yeah, it does. And she was appointed to do educational reform. That was what it said in the Prophet. And on the surface, educational reform, wow, that sounds great. We're going to make the tax dollars go further. We're going to, you know, shape up the teachers. But this restriction, the late, the latest restriction on teachers can't say anything outside of strictly their subject matter, is a perfect example of how that reform is actually a horrible thing. I mean, how many times have you learned something from one of your teachers that wasn't their subject matter, but you learned through interaction or extracurricular activities or after class or if something comes up in class, they're going to answer the question whether it pertains or not. And that's just good teaching. That's just being an educated person helping the uneducated people. And that's all gone now. And so this control, this need for control that Umbridge is exercising over Hogwarts, which we'll continue to see in this, in the next chapter, is really just. It's harmful in every way. And it's not, as I already used the word, magnanimous, but it's not as healthy and helpful as it initially stated. When she was given the role of, you know, High Inquisitor.

[Laura]

Yeah, well, that was never the intent. Go ahead, Katie.

[Katie]

The decree came out after the headline. So to me, like, when the headline first came out, there should have been a you are safe children. Like it is. Okay, here it was clearly after the teachers had been doing that whispering at the breakfast table that she's like, people need to stop talking. And yeah, like, knee jerk reaction put something out.

[Andrew]

And maybe she was afraid that Dumbledore was going to make a school wide announcement and she wanted to nip it in the bud.

[Micah]

But he wouldn't look at Harry when he said it though.

[Andrew]

No, no. Luckily there's a lot of kids to look at in the Great hall, so it's not his beautiful eyes.

[Laura]

Harry's definitely the one that is like the most in danger. But, you know, don't look at him. He might attack you.

[Micah]

The other thing about this is not only is there a lack of information, but the information that is being shared is actually being spun. Fudge is laying blame at the feet of Sirius for what's happened. But in typical Fudge fashion, and we can look back over many books now, at this point, Fudge doesn't have any evidence that Sirius is responsible and he's.

[Eric]

Deliberately buried evidence too. The reason this Sirius Black scapegoat works is because Sirius is the only person known to have escaped from Azkaban. Wrong. Barty Crouch Jr also escaped from Azkaban, totally different way. And he was a Death Eater. But you know, he can't exactly testify as to that because Fudge found a way to silence him permanently. And so it's, it's, this is all a game of selective facts. And, you know, the narrative that's being pushed is just really skewed from what we know the truth to be.

[Laura]

Yeah. And later on when we are in the conversation in the interview with Rita, I mean, she effectively says as much. She's like, yeah, Fudge is putting his thumb on the scale over at the Prophet. Yeah, because it's all based on the public temperament and like, the public's like tolerance for news about Voldemort because nobody wants to believe that he's back. So people would much rather their official sources of information pat them on the head and tell them it's going to be okay. You don't need to worry about that crazy stuff Dumbledore was saying. So we're clearly at kind of like a, a breaking point because as Maika called out earlier, we do start seeing kind of the cracks in the facade of this approach in terms of people Starting to ask more questions and find the profits account not fully satisfactory. Not. Not providing full complete answers as to what happened.

[Micah]

Yeah, and this tactic in particular doesn't seem like it's very enforceable, this decree. How is she going to know? She cannot monitor every single conversation that's happening throughout Hogwarts. So it is that fear tactic that you're talking about, Laura. Right. It's the chance that Umbridge would find out about it that is scaring not only the students but also the professors because they likely, as we see in this chapter with Hagrid and Trelawney, have to be concerned for their jobs. And there's no easier way to get fired than getting caught doing something against an educational decree.

[Eric]

Right. It's essentially meant to dissuade and create this culture of information suppression and total control because to actually legislate out what it is that's gonna like they're having to do these blanket educational decrees and it effectively renders the information at Hogwarts one sided and completely arbitrary, you know, but at the same time it would, they'd have to do a million educational degrees which is ridiculous at this point there's probably already been like 10. And you know, we knew we got a lot more but it's because of this like blatant power grab from the Ministry.

[Katie]

And every decree so far has clearly been rushed. Like they're panicked responses. They are not well thought out, they are not looking ahead. They are just what's my problem right now and how can I regain control of this situation? And there's no afterthought.

[Eric]

And they're a matter of public record too. We know because this is, this is the UK government, this is the Ministry of Magic Government that's passing these decrees because I think we said when this first started the first such decree was establishing something in Hogwarts. So it's like essentially going back to the beginning of the government looking over Hogwarts. The people, the public that are reading this, if they're not distracted by the huge mass breakout from Azkaban and people being killed in hospitals and all this other stuff, I think they'd be able to see a pretty clear picture of how the Ministry is trying and kind of honestly losing at suppressing the truth.

[Andrew]

This talk about rushed and it being a rushed and panicked response actually kind of reminds me of executive orders by a US President. It's like, oh, let's just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. And a lot of this actually isn't going to hold up in Court. Similarly, you know, Umbridge can put together an educational decree that says, you know, the professors can't talk to the students about anything outside of their expertise. But how is that going to be enforced like we were just talking about? My only guess with enforcement in this, concerning this decree is she might be working with other Slytherins to help her out. I think some kids, including Draco, would get a kick out of that.

[Micah]

Snitches.

[Katie]

Yeah, eventually.

[Laura]

Right? That's right, Katie. We get the Inquisitorial Squad and it's very clear that Umbridge is using them as her. Her minions, her little birds, if you will. And, yeah, I think. I think they would delight in eavesdropping on people and ratting them out for doing things that are wrong, you know?

[Katie]

Well, Jordan even calls out how ridiculous it is when he. He challenges her in her class about, well, you can't punish us for playing Exploding Snap. That's not part of this class.

[Laura]

Right.

[Katie]

He gets detention for it.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he's. He's the one who needs the Murtlap essence at that point.

[Eric]

You know what, though? I think that people oftentimes criticize the Order of the Phoenix movie for having so many students being sent to Umbridge and all kind of rubbing their hands. But here' an example of her using Harry's punishment on other students. So it is. It is in the book.

[Laura]

Yeah, she definitely does. Yeah. But I will say that all of this does spur the DA to work even harder, to the point where Neville is kind of like the new top student in the da As a matter of fact, Harry notes that only Hermione exceeds his prowess at this point with learning various jinxes and stuns. And I think that we. We have a Neville Gets Swole Spotify playlist.

[Eric]

Yes.

[Laura]

That we made a few years ago. Is that true, Eric?

[Eric]

It's true. And it's still up there. I checked the MogoCast account. We'll link to it in the show notes for sure. But we had a Neville essentially, like, gym playlist when he's putting his head down. We all collaborated on it, so there's. You can kind of tell which host contributed what artist. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. And I was reminded, listening back to 462, that we had some fun there. So definitely check out that Neville get swole playlist.

[Andrew]

There's 148 songs on it. So you will be entertained for a while. For nine hours and three minutes, to be exact.

[Katie]

Look at us.

[Laura]

We're just. Yeah. We're just pumping out content.

[Micah]

I'm gonna listen to it on my flight to LA next week.

[Andrew]

I think a lot of Neville's motivation here is coming from what the trio just saw that his parents are going through.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And also knowing that these people who seriously, seriously harmed his parents are now out in the open again. Broke out of Azkaban. That's motivating him to become a better wizard and to finally exact revenge on them.

[Laura]

But it is an interesting dynamic shift that we see because of this article. It does specifically call out the crimes of each of these 10 death eaters. And for Bellatrix, it specifically calls out the torture and incapacitation of Frank and Alice Longbottom. And it's very clear that Harry's the only one of their friend group who knew about it. And he was a good friend, so he didn't share the news. But Ron and Hermione are shocked by this because they had no idea. And there are other Hogwarts students who are getting a lot more attention right now because their families were also affected by these particular Death Eaters. Right, Katie?

[Katie]

Yeah. Susan Bones even comes up to him in herbology. It's like, I can't imagine this is what you're going through. This is terrible. And she's just one person whose relative family was affected by this.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Katie]

But it also makes me wonder, like, we see Neville glow up in the D A but has anyone checked in on him and the attention that he's getting out of this?

[Andrew]

It's a good question. It is nice to see, though that Susan is acknowledging and understanding what Harry is currently going through though, because through much of this book so far, not many people have been on Harry's side. So between the profit reporting and comments like this from Susan, it's like, all right, the wind is changing.

[Katie]

I agree. It's nice to see somebody come in quietly and show some sort of support or just acknowledgement of what Harry's going through versus. Was it Ernie who was like, I stand by you. Me and my. Like, it was a show and now it's a more subtle, like, I. I feel you on this now.

[Andrew]

More meaningful.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

More. More authentic. Less performative. Yeah. Well, Hermione has one of her patented eureka moments. She is very frustrated reading this article from the Daily Prophet because she's like, if only we could get word out somewhere where people could read a different point of view than this. And she's like, aha. I have a great idea that I can't tell you about, but I'll be Back later. And so she dips out here saying that she's the only one who can. Right. So Hermione has something up her sleeve and she believes that she is the only one who can. She is, because she's blackmailing Rita Skeeter. So this next part of the conversation is going to be pretty fun.

[Eric]

She's single handedly changing the course of wizarding history. It's easy to overlook this. This is just a chapter in a book and a thing that happens. So much is happening in this book. But if you really think about it, this really turns the tide by presenting, you know, the real story but the alternative to all the fictitious stu that's being put out by the news. Hermione's inkling here that what people need is to be able to be told this account and then they'll be on even enough footing to make the decision for themselves is really brilliant. And I don't think she gets enough credit for it. She is the only one that could do this. And through doing it she shapes the future. I think that this in no small way leads to so much of the resistance and the people being, you know, actually aware and starting to be able to prepare for a world in which Voldemort is back.

[Micah]

And it also shows her ability to exploit certain things and certain people. We see her do it with Rita in this chapter. But also I'm thinking about the Quibbler, the publication that she was so apt to dismiss earlier on in this book. She's using it basically as a tool to her own end.

[Eric]

Yeah. Is exploit the right term?

[Micah]

She takes advantage of it.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean they have their highest sales month.

[Micah]

Well, I don't know how many alternatives there are.

[Laura]

Yeah, right.

[Micah]

But Luna probably doesn't really care all that much at the end of the day what Hermione thought earlier on in this book. But I do think she, she's making the most of the situation.

[Eric]

I do think it's important to point out, as you did, that Hermione really doesn't care a lot about the Quibbler and she's got leverage on Rita. This is how she's, you know, using it.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. It's a place where she can get this interview out to a mass audience and that type of opportunity isn't all that common, I guess. And she sees it as the best solution.

[Micah]

Yeah, I mean, I guess exploit has a negative connotation to it, but so does blackmail and we seem to be okay with that.

[Andrew]

Hermione, we've discussed before Hermione's got a bit of a bad side. So if you want to have exploitation, that's okay.

[Laura]

And yeah, I mean, she's straight up blackmailing Rita. She's like, if you don't do this for free, I'm going to rat you out for being an unregistered animation the law.

[Eric]

And you know, the other thing is that the byline, you know, Rita Skeeter by Rita Skeeter, that it shouldn't, but it does lend credibility to whatever story comes after it because people are familiar, people love a celebrity. People have read that name in the paper and if it's in the paper, it's got to be real. So Rita Skeeter, you know, inadvertently being forced to write this does go aways to people believing it.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Well, we're gonna take a quick break because the show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, therapy can feel like it's going to be a big investment, especially when you haven't worked with a therapist before and don't know what you might be getting into. But let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. By working with a therapist, you'll have someone in your corner who is solely focused on helping you thrive and get past your demons. I love working with my therapist because she isn't afraid to question my thinking and call me out. It helps me build a clearer picture of what I'm dealing with, which ultimately puts me in a better place. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com mugglecast today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com mugglecast.

[Laura]

Well, the timing of that better help ad could not have been better because unfortunately, Harry is about to receive some more bad news. After Hermione leaves, he and Ron in the Great hall and it's that Hagrid has been put on probation. So not a surprise, but still a bummer. And to be honest, it really seems like the trio are the only three to be upset about this at all.

[Katie]

A little bit. It's surprising.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Katie. Because earlier they were all defending him. Like when he returned, Fred and George were running up to him. Even like people were excited to see him and excited for him to be back. And now it's just silence. It was just. Why? Why silence now? Why is. I mean, it's not shocking like you said, but it's like you love this teacher. Allegedly. But we're silent now. I will say one.

[Micah]

What book is it though? I mean, Harry knows because Hagrid shared it, but who else knows? Is that something that is outwardly communicated by Umbridge to let students know that a teacher is on probation?

[Katie]

It said that the news had spread. Yeah, the news was slowly spreading.

[Laura]

I think it's one of those things like in. In like a school environment or a work environment like this gets out well.

[Katie]

And Umbridge starts joining all the classes. She's showing up. It was mentioned that she's in every single one of these care Magical Creatures and Divinations classes. Which. How does she have time for that?

[Eric]

She has. She works at the ministry where the Time Turners are, I think.

[Andrew]

But I think that's part of the reason why maybe students don't see it as big of a deal as the trio might. Because he's still teaching. Yeah. Umbridge is breathing down his back, but he's still there. And I also think that the student body is slowly but sure, surely just growing used to Umbridge's presence and what she's doing at the school. Like there's no stopping it. She clearly is in control.

[Eric]

It's crazy. Yeah. It's been normalized. Her presence there and everything that she's doing to bully and subjugate the students is. People are used to it. It's not as shocking as it would have been on day one.

[Katie]

Silence supports the oppressor.

[Micah]

My question about this though, is, is she in every care of Magical Creatures and Divination class or is she in every one of Harry's care of Magical Creature and Divination classes?

[Katie]

I wonder that too. I was wondering that too because I was thinking about the math on that. We can think there's six grade levels that are in all those classes, plus newts and we can assume that there's two per year because we talk about potions with the Slytherins, Hufflepuffs are in Hbology. So are there two classes per year times six years. Like that's like 24 classes for just those two. How is she doing that? Plus her dada teaching doesn't add up.

[Eric]

Yeah, well, right. I like the idea that it's just Harry's classes.

[Micah]

Right. Because then she's also able to watch. Like that would make sense. It serves a double purpose.

[Eric]

Yeah, I never thought about that. I always thought it was just absolutely nuts, you know, 20 something classes in it. But yeah, it's probably just Ares.

[Laura]

Yeah, I like the idea of her trying to kill two birds with one stone by doing that. Moving on. You know, we talked a little bit about Neville and his glow up in the da. Unfortunately, Harry is not having the same experience with Occlumency. He's continuing to really struggle in that space. It seems like his lessons with Snape are making things worse, not better. Harry's noticing more occasions where he's feeling an emotion that is not his own. And more dreams about the Department of Mysteries. His scar almost always hurts too. And Hermione opines at one point that maybe this is like a fever and it just needs to get worse before it gets better. Ron, of course, is immediately like, nope, Snape is trying to kill you. You should stop doing these lessons. But I kind of found myself thinking about the fever breaking excuse and that could make a certain amount of sense. But if that's the expectation, that would be a good thing for Harry to know, right? Like why couldn't anyone have told him that?

[Katie]

A solid question.

[Micah]

It all goes back to what we were talking about last week with Snape's inability to handle this whole situation with any sort of care at all. And to your point, Laura, I do think that if it's one of those things where it's got to get worse before it gets better, Harry should know that. And it doesn't seem like there's any kind of soft touch that's coming from Snape. But I do think that there is something to what Ron is saying, and I don't think that he should be, at least at this point in the story, so easily dismissed by Hermione. You know, what better way for Snape as this double agent to show loyalty to Voldemort than by keeping Harry in such a state where he would be easily manipulated. We don't know what information he's sharing with Voldemort at this point, but clearly Harry is in a extremely weakened state by this whole process. And Snape's a double agent. He's got to play both sides. He's got to be giving Dumbledore some. Giving Voldemort some. Like. Otherwise Voldemort wouldn't be willing to trust him as much as he does.

[Eric]

You know, the first book, the Tasks Leading to the Sorcerer's Stone Retrieval, really painted Ron as the strategizer. But this is Hermione, like, chapter for strategizing, Getting rid of Skeeter to the table, etc. Etc. Ron, you know, bless him, he is thinking strategically still, like, this is something that you would think that Snape would have now a huge, Like, a weapon of his own in a weakened Harry. So I appreciate that Ron is still thinking about this. I just don't think he's ever been shut down faster by Hermione.

[Katie]

And Hermione was straight up mean. She was mean. Shut up, Ron. That's just mean.

[Andrew]

Well, but it's interesting hearing Hermione say, we need to trust Dumbledore, but then none of them are like, yeah, you know what? That's. That's a good point, me. Or that's a good point, Hermione. And I think there's a lot left unsaid here because the scene actually ends on this moment and no one's like, yeah, we do need to trust Dumbledore. I think they're kind of questioning whether they can trust Dumbledore or not because nobody's willing to speak that out into the air other than Hermione saying, we got to.

[Micah]

We should.

[Katie]

If only he was around to answer questions.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the line we always get is Dumbledore trusts Snape, so we trust Dumbledore. And that's like, by association, right? That's where the trust is coming from. But when has Dumbledore proven himself to be trustworthy? Up until this point, with everything that Harry's been through and with everything that Harry's going through in this book besides him showing up for the trial.

[Eric]

You know that only trustworthy people are on chocolate frog cards, right?

[Andrew]

There's some paperwork and you have to prove you're trustworthy before you get printed in that card.

[Katie]

Yeah, well, I think the response is always, well, has he ever led you wrong? Well, he's not led me straight either. There's always curvy.

[Eric]

Well, like, in what? It's very curvy. And what Hermione says about shutting Ron down is, how many times have you suspected Snape? And how many times has that proven to be, you know, a waste of time? Stop wasting time, Ronald. And it's like, well, we still don't have many answers to him. And we know from having just read the Occlumency chapter that Snape is hiding a very longing passion for Harry's mom. So, you know, there could be so much more to Snape. There is so much more to Snape that is being hidden. And, you know, it's being pulled over your eyes. And so it's very reasonable, I think, at this stage, that Snape could still be one of the bad ones.

[Laura]

Yeah. You know what I was also thinking about during this moment? I was thinking about how surprised I am that in the next book, when the big Snape Kills Dumbledore reveal happens. What? Oh, no. But I'm kind of surprised Ron doesn't throw this in Hermione's face at that point to be like, yeah, remember last year when I told you that he was weakening Harry? Looks like I was right and he wasn't, but I forgot still. Oh, no. Poor Ron.

[Katie]

No, I bet he brings it up in their marital spots later. Hey, remember that time in school?

[Eric]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[Katie]

Yeah, I was right.

[Laura]

Sounds right.

[Eric]

Well, and not only that, but, you know, eventually, when we learn that Snape is the one who told Voldemort about Lillian James and the prophecy, which, you know, we can't know that now because we don't know about the prophecy yet, but there are many reasons yet to be found out why you should, can, and should still suspect Snape of some wrongdoing.

[Andrew]

All right, we're going to take one more break today, and then it's time for Valentine's Day and a first date for Harry and Cho. We'll be right back.

[Advertiser]

Find Mom's best gift at Target. Now through Mother's Day, get up to 40% off gifts for her. Discover trendy apparel and swimwear that'll elevate, elevate any wardrobe, jewelry that'll make her smile, shine brighter, and even chocolate that'll turn any moment into something sweeter. There are endless options to choose from to show her she's the best. Hurry. Save 20 to 40% on select apparel, jewelry, chocolates and more this Mother's Day only at Target. Restrictions apply.

[Laura]

I don't think Harry envisioned that he would be partially spending Valentine's Day with Rita Skeeter, but here we have it in this next part of the chapter. So, while Harry has all of this mess going on in his personal life and in the world politically, with Voldemort at school, Valentine's Day also sneaks up on him. And of course, he had previously asked Cho to go with him to Hogsmeade on Valentine's Day after she laid some very not so subtle hints. And he finally picked up on it and asked her. But I gotta say, for his big first date with Cho, I don't think Harry or Cho were really set up for success here. And maybe we can start that conversation with Madame Puttyfoots. The date location that Cho picks. It's funny because when you read back over this, it's clear that she's trying to make it seem like a spontaneous recommendation. And like, that wasn't where she always was trying to lead Harry the whole time, but actually that was directly where she was trying to get him for a romantic Valentine's Day date. And we know this because she mentions that she used to come here with Cedric. So this is. It's very rough. And on top of it all, Madame Puddifoots is like, the most unhairy place for a date.

[Andrew]

Yeah, but that's life, man. It's time to level up and go to a nice place for your first date. And this is on Valentine's Day. I think it's a great idea for their first date spot. Cho is also very excited by the fact that Madame Putty foot has decorated for Valentine's Day. She. She makes a note of. Of how charming that is. I really don't see anything wrong with this. No matter where they went on Valentine's Day, there's probably going to be couples holding hands because it's Valentine's Day. It maybe don't do your first date on Valentine's Day. If. If you don't want to be surrounded by love in the air.

[Laura]

That's a lot of pressure.

[Eric]

I've been to restaurants on Valentine's Day where everyone in there is couples celebrating Valentine's Day. And it's not as oppressive, everyone crunched in, sitting on top of each other as Madame Puttyfoots is. And so there's really no privacy. It's okay to be somewhere in a group on Valentine's Day with your, you know, significant other. But any in order for that to be, like, appealing, you should kind of already be a thing together. You know what I'm saying? Like, if Harry and Cho had already been dating for a while, then this place is, like, kind of okay as a first date, though not today. It's clearly for people who are, like, already at, like, the snogging stage and people who are, like, real nosy and it's just not great.

[Andrew]

But what would be the equivalent of that in the Muggle world, where people. Where it's like, normal for people to be kissing each other in, like, a coffee shop, I don't think there is anything. And so my point is just that, like, I don't think these people are there to kiss. I think it's just Valentine's Day and.

[Micah]

But this is an extent. Oh, go ahead, Laura.

[Laura]

I was just gonna say we have to remember, I think a lot of people in Madame Puttyfoots are teenagers. Right? They're all Hogwarts students. And I definitely remember being a teenager, it was way more common for people in that age bracket to do stuff like that. To, like, make out at the movie theater or to make out at the coffee shop or whatever. Like, it's obviously tacky, and I think we all know that now as adults. But when you're 15 and your hormones are like, flying, I think it's pretty natural. But the thing is, Harry, he's clearly not in a place where he's ready for this with Cho, but he feels a lot of pressure because of the environment that they're in.

[Katie]

I think the environment was kind of funny. And one of the, like, it was such a quick moment. But one of the things that made me laugh the most is when he's looking around and he looks up and like, one of the sheriffs just drops glitter in his face. Yeah, I want to see that on the show. Just like, glitter, glitter bomb.

[Laura]

Honestly, that would be a great Max, that moment for sure. It definitely, like, adds some levity to it. Even though Harry's really uncomfortable the whole time.

[Katie]

He's uncomfortable being like, Joe, what's going on? Why are you crying? Why are you crying? Just get it off of me.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I maybe should take back what I said because I had no experience dating when I was Harry's age. The only romance I was having was romance in the Sims video game. I did not have any experiences like this, so.

[Laura]

Oh, so you're Sims make out at the coffee shop.

[Andrew]

Oh, I made. I made my Sims make out. But that's not reflective of the real world. I got to keep that in mind.

[Micah]

Okay, but Laura, what I was going to say earlier is pretty similar. Like, I feel like Madame Puttyfoots, at least in this particular instance, is an extension of Hogwarts. And so, yeah, you're going to see, especially on a day like this, couples holding hands, snogging, doing all of those things, because that's what you see in middle schools and high schools around at least the U.S. i'm sure that's true in other places of the world as well. But I do think in classic teenage boy fashion, Harry didn't do any prep for this date. And I understand he had a lot of time, but I'm just going to say he's had a lot on his plate. He's got this greasy haired potions professor screwing with his head, messing up his mind every single week, multiple times a week. So I give him a little bit of a pass here.

[Katie]

I don't. Yeah, yeah, I don't like. You have a month and a half. Give him a month and a half. You're in VA meetings with Cho. Ask her, hey, what do you want to do on our date? What do you want to do when we're in town? I also think he forgets he has other friends other than Harry or Hermione and Ron. Ask Fred and George. They know the town. Is there a cool spot that we could. I could take her. Do you know anywhere neat? Any of the chasers on the Quidditch team? He has other friends. Ask people.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's, that's actually a good point. If he were an active participant in this rebutting relationship, he would have taken the time or found the time to ask those types of questions.

[Micah]

I don't think he's ready for a girlfriend at this point, apparently. No, no, I'm serious. Like, I think this would have worked out maybe a little bit better in Goblet of Fire if Cedric wasn't there. But where he's at currently, in order of the Phoenix, there's too much other stuff going on. She's not a priority, clearly.

[Eric]

I also think she's not ready for the relationship because, you know, this comes off as very. It's trying to do two things at once. You know, she brings Harry to this like very obviously intimate, romantic place on Valentine's Day, which is like meant to be a good first date spot where they can get to know each other better. But her stated intention at some point is to talk about Cedric and that is not just a buzzkill. But that's not the kind of thing you would talk about when you want to be romantic with somebody. It's when you want to talk about your trauma. And there needs to be that conversation before you can start dating. So that should have been somewhere else, that should have happened somewhere else.

[Katie]

Agreed.

[Laura]

Yeah, I agree. But also, I mean, they're both traumatized and both really young. And we know Harry sure as hell has not had any real support for his grief and you know, the hit that his mental health has taken in the last year, and it's probably safe to assume that Cho feels pretty alone in that, too. And I think that's probably the reason she fixates on Harry so much, because he's the only one who can kind of share the experience of losing Cedric with her. So maybe she doesn't even know. Maybe she thinks that she has a romantic interest in him, but maybe it has more to do with Cedric. She's fully realized.

[Eric]

Yeah, I think that's probably right. It's just that because this is such a miss. Like, the very last person Harry wants to think about or talk about right now is Cedric. He comes away from this experience resenting Cho, and that's not great. Right? That's not something you want to see. He very comically leaves the shop and it's like, women.

[Laura]

Yes. Because he knows so much about women and he has so many experiences. Experiences to compare this to. I was like, okay, Harry, calm down. You're fine. Harry's awkward date with Cho does come to an end when he reveals to her, very stupidly, that he wants to go meet up with Hermione before he and Cho have really had a chance to settle into their date. And Cho very clearly makes some assumptions about what that means and what Hermione must be to Harry and vice versa. So Harry storms out, curses all women everywhere because he's frustrated at show, and finds himself at the Three Broomsticks meeting up with Hermione as well as Rita, Skeeter and Luna Lovegood. What a trio. Who would have imagined these three coming together? And Hermione introduces the idea that Rita's interview of Harry that she's about to do is going to be published in the Quibbler. Hence Luna's presence. And as we said before, Rita doesn't really have any choice in the matter because Hermione's blackmailing her again. I love when Hermione goes on these, like, justice streaks. I think they're very, very entertaining.

[Micah]

I mean, she did keep a woman trapped in a jar for several months. Like, that's borderline psychotic. Like, you were just doing an episode on. What the hype about you? I mean, it's no different than keeping somebody in a cage in the bottom of a bookstore. Right.

[Andrew]

Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies in a jar very close. In a jar next to your bed.

[Laura]

To be fair, Rita was bullying Hermione and her friends.

[Andrew]

Mm.

[Micah]

Okay. So does Draco.

[Andrew]

Don't get on Laura's bad side.

[Eric]

That's how you insane overreach.

[Katie]

That's how you survive school is blackmail your bully.

[Andrew]

Hey, we're taught. We were talking earlier about Hermione being a little batty. I, I, I like it. I like that she's trapped in the jar. I like she's kind of disheveled in this scene and having to bend to Hermione's wills. I'm surprised Rita was able to show up to this because I would have thought she had a date for Valentine's.

[Katie]

Day in the way she looks.

[Andrew]

Not fudge. She loves fudge.

[Micah]

Ludo Bagman.

[Andrew]

Oh, I can see that. Yeah, we talked about that.

[Micah]

I think, when we did Goblet of Fire.

[Eric]

I think you're right.

[Laura]

But, yeah, to your point, Katie, I don't think that Rita would consider herself to be Valentine's Day ready because she's clearly not doing so well. And, you know, typically we're used to seeing her a lot more put together in her way. Whereas here we have chipped nail polish and missing jewels on her long talon, like nails. And her hair is hanging limp around her face. So, yeah, I think that's why there are no Valentine's Day plans, Andrew.

[Andrew]

I think also because Lockhart had, you know, his memory erased, and if he was still with it, those two definitely would have become a couple. They're both very full on themselves. PR power couple.

[Katie]

She could totally be his Ghost Rider.

[Andrew]

Yeah, maybe she was.

[Micah]

Declare that canon.

[Andrew]

I declare canon.

[Laura]

But, Katie, you asked an interesting question here about Hermione's plan.

[Katie]

Yeah, I wondered why she didn't share it sooner. She waits till she gets a response and then just spurs it on Harry in the last minute in a very public place. And maybe it's a lesson of learning not to use the Hogshead and to go somewhere more public this time. But I also wondered about, like, you're asking this person to trauma or, like, relive their trauma in this very public place. It's not just a secret meeting to plan something. But please, deep dive into this very terrible experience so we can document it.

[Eric]

Well, he's got nothing better to do on Valentine's Day?

[Micah]

Well, I was gonna say.

[Katie]

And in this conversation, Cho just asked him to do the same thing. Almost. Yeah, yeah, he told Cho no, but Rita. Sure. For the greater good.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Do we blame Hermione at all, though, for what happens with Harry and Cho? Maybe indirectly?

[Katie]

No.

[Eric]

She's looking. She's looking for something to be genuinely mad at Harry about. And this jealousy came out of nowhere. I don't think Harry could rightly have guessed that Cho would be jealous of Hermione. Because when he realizes that that's what's going on, he's highly amused and is like, I don't think about Hermione like that.

[Andrew]

You know, when the date is going bad, though, Cho's gonna look for reasons to get mad at Hermione for this invite. And I think Harry could have anticipated that.

[Katie]

I think it's another character avoiding accountability. It can't possibly be Cho's fault that the date went south. It's Hermione.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

The thing is, if Hermione knows Harry's going on a date, though, and she knows it's his first date with Cho.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Why is she asking him to meet Nai?

[Andrew]

Give him space?

[Laura]

Well, because this is when Rita's available.

[Katie]

What else is she doing?

[Eric]

The only way this happens is if Umbridge is not around. So it needs to be during a Hogsmeade weekend. Could have been tomorrow. I think that the key moment here is, like, whether Hermione did anything wrong is when she sees Harry. She says, harry, I wasn't expecting you for another hour. And so she really was gonna give Harry all the time he needed to, like, wrap up his date with Cho. I mean, I think as a first date, I don't think it's likely to last, like, eight or 10 hours unless they really hit it off.

[Micah]

So they walk down together. You'd expect them to walk back to the castle together. No.

[Andrew]

Snog. Snog some more.

[Eric]

Cho could come along. I think maybe Hermione intimated that.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Cho would have loved to have heard it. She was trying to get it. Putting it.

[Eric]

Well, that's the thing. Yeah. Cho is kind of maybe isolated herself from the riches here. But the other thing I'm thinking about regarding Rita is that she's looking a bit off, as we said. She's also, I think, awaiting redemption. You know, it can't be good for Hermione to have this leverage on her. I would say that that's probably contributed to a worsening mental state. Also, Hermione is the reason she quit her job at the Daily Prophet. I think Hermione forced that to happen at the end of the last. So Rita is not relevant anymore. And I think that's probably one of the main reasons why she was doing what she did so maliciously. Is like she got high off of being relevant and Miss Thing. Now, making Rita do this, she inevitably is giving Rita the chance to be relevant again also and to do something. I think even Rita would understand matters. Even though Rita's politics are kind of with the side that she was mostly on. And she's been fine with Fudge leaning on the paper. I think I'd like to believe that after she finishes with this story and writes it, she will realize that she's actually done an important thing.

[Micah]

Yeah, but it's okay that Hermione tears her down as long as she's gonna build her back up through this opportunity. Because through her physical appearance. I wanted to bring that up for a second because, yes, we know that she was in the jar, but she was released from the jar at the end of Goblet of Fire once they got back to London and. Okay. Allegedly, Eric, though, going off of what you said, she was given the direction by Hermione not to continue to write the stories that she had been writing the year prior and presumably throughout her entire career. So it's almost like Hermione has taken the life out of her. And I think that's why we see her appear the way she does. She's not presumably working. She's fallen on hard times because of the situation that she's put her in.

[Eric]

Oh, my God. Hermione crippled her financially.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Rita abused her, her power like she abused the, the role that she had in the last book pretty egregiously. I'm not saying Hermione was right.

[Micah]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's true.

[Laura]

It's true, but not at all. But like, I think Hermione had told her she had to put her pen down for one year. Yeah, that's resonating with me. And the other thing too is like Rita's. Her appearance to me really just reads of economic woes. Like no one's going to be able to keep, like, afford to keep up with, you know, their nail habit or like getting their hair perfectly set as frequently as she probably was before Rita messed around and she found out, like, I'm not saying it's totally okay what happened to her, but actions have consequences.

[Eric]

At any point, Rita could go back to work and it's just that Hermione would tell everyone that she broke the law by becoming an imagus. You know, who knows Rita in her people care. I think people that were scooped and they didn't know how Rita did it would be pretty pissed.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Katie]

If there weren't other headlines competing then, yeah, I think people might care. But there's some pretty big headlines that, that would go up against.

[Andrew]

Getting back to a point from a couple of minutes ago, I do think Rita might be Willing to turn a new leaf here and actually do some good in the world. Like she says to Harry, and I think this is the end of the chapter. She says, are you ready to tell the world the truth? That's a lot for somebody like Rita to say. And I know her back's against the wall when it comes to Hermione, but I feel like that's a big moment for her and maybe when she has this experience, she'll be like, oh, wow. It actually feels good to tell the truth and make a difference in the world. Even if it's through the damn Quibbler. I'm optimistic that she turns a new leaf. Also, I was wondering, like, okay, so Hermione wasn't expecting Harry to show up for another hour at least. So Hermione, Rita and Luna are all sitting there like, what are they talking about for an hour? And then what came to mind to me was this TikTok sound. Have you all heard this? Hey.

[Laura]

Hey, Adam.

[Andrew]

It's just this for an hour. Awkward. Awkward.

[Eric]

Well, they can't have been there long or whatever so far. But if you notice how they each have a cocktail and you know there's alcohol in this based on the description, like. Like one of them's got a little umbrella.

[Andrew]

If I'm read, I'm having a drink for sure.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Swigging from hers.

[Andrew]

Yeah, like it's Valentine's Day and I'm single again.

[Eric]

Everyone's. Everyone's drinking here.

[Laura]

It's Valentine's. It's Valentine's Day and I'm being extreme. Distorted by a teenager.

[Katie]

Does Hermione at least buy her drink?

[Eric]

Oh, probably not.

[Micah]

I would hope so.

[Katie]

Oh, I think it also.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Rita probably can't afford it.

[Katie]

It also just shows how important Hermione knows this is to be sitting with two people that she doesn't think very highly of, at least lately we haven't heard her opinion of Luna and if it's changed. But from previous interactions, she hasn't thought much of her. And to be sitting there willingly. Yeah, there just shows how important Hermione recognizes this is.

[Eric]

This is why Luna's great. She's just vibing like, she's just like. Yeah, she's just having a good time seeing where the wind blows.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well, again, this was, you know, a whole scene that actually happens off screen. We don't see the Rita interview of Harry. We end up hearing about it after the fact via the Quibbler. But this is something that we recently talked about on bonus mugglecast as wanting to see actually portrayed in the show, like, show us the interview. I think that's a lot more, like, visually interesting from a TV standpoint than yet another newspaper montage, I think.

[Andrew]

2020.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

A 2020 exclusive. Harry Potter, Rita Skeeter, the Truth, tonight at 9:00pm Eastern on ABC. Sorry, go ahead, Katie.

[Katie]

Showing that interview would actually be a really great storytelling method to remind to the viewers what happened. Because it's been half of a season, potentially at that point, since we saw what happened in the graveyard. So to remind the viewers, here are the names that you might have forgotten about. Here's those details you might have forgotten about that are really important. I think it could be a great way for them to rehash that without doing flashbacks or montages.

[Andrew]

And seeing Harry kind of relive some of this would be interesting. And watch him get this truth out on a large platform, I think would be a wonderful character moment and acting moment.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well, that is chapter 25. We are going to move into some odds and ends here quickly before we get into our last couple of segments. So, first of all, just something I wanted to mention. The Daily Prophet reminds us that Antonin Dolahav killed Gideon and Fabian Pruitt, Molly Weasley's brothers and Ron's uncles. Why didn't Ron mention anything?

[Katie]

Or Fred or George. They're all in the school together. They all read the newspaper. Why did anybody say, that's our uncles. Or those are our uncles?

[Laura]

Yeah, like, do they know? Like, I'm just confused because it seems like we totally glossed over that while the chapter was focusing on other students whose families were mentioned in the article.

[Eric]

Like, just the connection isn't made. And don't we see Dolhav in one of the future books, too? Like, pretty big and it's not. I still don't think it's mentioned he kills Lupin.

[Katie]

Bren and George might have known them. They might have been like one or two years old by the time they died. So not old enough to remember them, but they would have at least heard the names in their very early lives.

[Eric]

They know their uncle's names. Yeah, for sure, too.

[Laura]

Also wanted to connect some threads quickly between Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix. First of all, Cho reminisces about the first time she and Harry played Quidditch against each other in Prisoner of Azkaban. And she also notes this was an interesting point, that in Prisoner of Azkaban, when Sirius was at large, dementors were posted everywhere, but there are none now that 10 death eaters have escaped from Azkaban.

[Micah]

You gotta have control of them to post them.

[Laura]

That's true.

[Katie]

Right.

[Laura]

And that, that really confirms that the Ministry no longer controls them. All right, and now we are going to talk about our best moment of the chapter segment of the week. This week's theme is hashtag Real Talk. Quote of the week.

[Andrew]

I'm going to give my MVP award to a quote we hit on earlier when Rita says, all right, Fudge is leaning on the Prophet. That's a surprising comment to hear from Rita. Skeeter, I am sure validating, not a shock, but to hear it from her, I was impressed.

[Eric]

I think she likes it. But yeah, yeah.

[Laura]

On a related note, when Hermione fires back at Rita and says, oh, so the Prophet exists to tell people what they want to hear, does it? And Rita very quickly shoots back, the Prophet exists to sell itself, you silly girl. And I was like, man, the brutal honesty. I mean, yeah, she's being real.

[Micah]

I felt it was only appropriate after defending Ron earlier to go with shut up, Ron. I feel like that's real talk throughout the Harry Potter series, not just Order of the Phoenix.

[Eric]

What's the least characteristic quote said by Harry Potter? Actually said by Harry Potter in the books women. Which is immediately followed by something about a human host pie up. I'm not even going to say it again. It's just weird.

[Katie]

I love Sassy Harry, but I also love Sassy Hermione. And in her line, the Prophet might give you rather a lot for an insider's account of life in Azkaban.

[Laura]

Oh, that's wonderful. I love that. And now we're going to move into our links line. This is where Mugglecast listeners who are members of our community [e-mail] mugglecast get to answer a weekly question. And this week's question was if you could scoop one outrageous piece of gossip from Hogwarts, what would your one sentence headline be?

[Andrew]

So Cassandra said, statute of secrecy violated. Rich librarian arrested. Irma Pince accused of selling Hogwarts's spell books to Muggles.

[Eric]

Oh my God.

[Laura]

Oh my gosh.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that would be scandalous.

[Laura]

It really would.

[Eric]

Danielle says, what's next? A vampire? Why your Hogwarts students aren't safe from the like of werewolves and giants on campus.

[Laura]

Yep, very.

[Micah]

Katie, who is here says not picking pansies. Hogwarts least favorite. Pick me girl. Once again overlooked and ignored.

[Andrew]

Well done, Katie.

[Laura]

That's really good.

[Katie]

She really loved me at the beginning, the beginning of this chapter, making fun.

[Laura]

Of Joe Yeah, right, like mind your business, Zachary says 50 Shades of Green With a looming threat seeming ever so near, Fudge still assures our community we have nothing to fear, all while appearing to turn a new shade of green every interview. Is he telling the truth or is he playing some sort of sadistic game with us? Find out on my extra juicy edition of of my Fly on the Wall column. That's funny, Rachel said.

[Katie]

Oh rats. Grown man shares bed with teenage boy.

[Andrew]

Oof.

[Laura]

Whoops.

[Andrew]

On a similarly creepy note, Shannon said, Harry Potter and Severus Snape seen alone together. Secret lessons or secret lovers? Hear from the professor himself and our firsthand source.

[Laura]

No frickin way.

[Andrew]

What are you talking about, you, Weirdness?

[Eric]

Jennifer has perhaps the least likely one Hogwarts a security safety nightmare. Hundreds of dementors flood campus as high profile mass murderer easily breaks into the school and holds a student at knife point. Who is to blame? Gee, I wonder.

[Laura]

Dumbledore?

[Micah]

Yes, always, Shannon says. Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry safer than Gringotts or Security Nightmare. Three first year students get past seven obstacles created by top professors to safeguard the alleged legendary Philosopher's Stone.

[Laura]

And to wrap us up, Kyle says. Dumbledore's beast in the Castle Children in peril. Gamekeeper with dark past hauled off his students allegedly petrified. Dumbledore resigns in disgrace, refuses to comment on his role in injured students bombshell. New interview with Hogwarts Governor's chairman. Of course Lucius would worm his way into this.

[Eric]

Yep, those are great.

[Laura]

Thanks y'all.

[Andrew]

Yeah, lots of creativity as always, including from Katie. Well, don't forget everybody. You can participate in the links line every week by becoming a [e-mail] mugglecast and if you have feedback about today's talk, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to mugglecastmail.com next week. Chapter by chapter continues with Order of The Phoenix, chapter 26 Seen and Unforeseen. Be sure to check out our other weekly podcasts, what the Hype and Millennial for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us on what the Hype? Recently we've been talking about the Last of Us and Netflix's you. And over on Millennial, we're discussing personal fitness and busting myths on the topic with one of our listeners who is a personal trainer.

[Micah]

Yeah, Andrew, I didn't know you kiss your biceps in the mirror.

[Andrew]

He was trolling. Thank you for listening, Laika.

[Micah]

You're welcome.

[Andrew]

His words not mine. Now it's time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week's question was what part of the human brain, in addition to aiding cognitive functions like attention and planning, also is involved with the storing of long term memories? Any Crash Bandicoot fans in the audience? The answer is neocortex. And we're also looking. We accepted hippocampus too, because all the parts of the brain work together. 30% of people with the correct answer said they did not look it up. And this week's winners were. Bort, Voldemort, Buffdaddy, Cherry Fishing, Haggard's missing Secret Filter, Hogwarts Hippocampus, where Buckbeak majors in Memory Charms. I'll huffle and I'll puffle and I'll look this answer up. Nerdy Gryffindor, Oceanic 8 15. The elf head is alive and Tofu Tom. Here's next week's Quizzage question. What prison was the site of the largest jailbreak in Britain? British history, when 38 inmates, members of the IRA, that's the Irish Republican army, overpowered guards with smuggled weapons and hijacked a food truck in the year 1983. Again, what was the name of that prison? Submit your answer to us on the Kwizich form located on the Mugglecast website mugglecast.comquizzitch if you're already on the website, maybe you're looking up transcripts or seeing the must listens page or checking out the about page and anyway, click on Quizzage for the main nav.

[Andrew]

Katie, thanks so much for joining us today. It was great having you on.

[Katie]

Thanks for having me. It was so fun.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we appreciate your support and I mean, you went the extra mile with the Lynx line question too, so thanks for almost kind of pulling double duty in a way.

[Laura]

Well, and also joining us on your birthday.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Oh my God. Yeah. Happy birthday. I'm so sorry. We should have said that at the top. Happy birthday.

[Katie]

Thanks so much.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Do you have any plans after tonight's recording or.

[Katie]

Not tonight, but tomorrow. The USA women's rugby team is playing Canada here in Kansas City, so that's what we're doing. We're gonna go check it out.

[Laura]

That'll be great.

[Andrew]

Fantastic. Well, and sorry for spoiling Half Blood Prince earlier on your birthday.

[Laura]

Can you forgive us?

[Katie]

Yeah. It's gonna be hard.

[Andrew]

Thanks again and thanks everyone for listening. Don't Forget to visit patreon.com mugglecast to support us. Please also leave us a review and your favorite podcast app and send an owl about us to your Harry Potter loving friends. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

I'm Laura.

[Katie]

And I'm Katie.

[Andrew]

Bye, everyone. And birthday girl, Katie.

[Laura]

Bye.