Pickup On Aisle 97 (OOTP Chapter 34, The Department of Mysteries)

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast
Episode Summary: Pickup On Aisle 97 (OOTP Chapter 34, The Department of Mysteries)
Release Date: August 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of MuggleCast, the hosts delve deep into Chapter 34 of "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix," titled "The Department of Mysteries." Joined by Eric's wife, Meg, the discussion explores the intricate details of Harry and his friends' perilous journey to the enigmatic Department of Mysteries. The episode, rich with theories, critical analyses, and listener insights, offers a comprehensive examination of the chapter's key events and underlying themes.

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Transportation via Thestrals

The conversation begins with an in-depth analysis of the group's choice to travel to the Department of Mysteries using Thestrals—magical creatures invisible to those who haven't witnessed death. The hosts critique the practicality and safety of this mode of transport, given the Thestrals' elusive nature.

Andrew [09:49]:
"Being up in the air and not knowing what I'm flying on would probably give me a panic attack."

Meg [10:08]:
"Some credit can be given to the Thestrals because they're smart enough to understand English and that there's a living thing on my back."

The discussion highlights the inherent dangers of flying invisibly, questioning why more of Harry's friends didn't succumb to the perils of this method. They ponder the Thestrals' intelligence and reliability, acknowledging that experienced riders like Dumbledore might mitigate some risks.

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Security Flaws at the Ministry of Magic

A significant portion of the episode critiques the security measures—or lack thereof—at the Ministry of Magic. The hosts express astonishment at how seamlessly Harry and his friends infiltrate the Department of Mysteries without triggering alarms or facing obstacles, especially considering their real identities and the high-stakes mission.

Micah [23:33]:
"If you guys aren't gonna do anything about it to orgs, to people in positions of power, isn't there somebody checking the flag folks who are coming into the Ministry?"

Meg [23:04]:
"Maybe they did have an alert but then they kept getting prank calls by like the teen London wizards who would be like, it's Harry Potter. Harry Potter's not coming here. Just cancel."

This segment underscores inconsistencies within the Ministry's operational protocols, suggesting oversight or negligence that allowed the group's covert entry.

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Exploring the Department of Mysteries' Rooms

The heart of the episode revolves around dissecting the various rooms within the Department of Mysteries. The hosts share their interpretations and theories about the functions and contents of these mysterious chambers.

1. The Death Room (The Veil Room)

A focal point of the chapter, the Death Room houses an enigmatic veil that separates the living from the dead. The discussion delves into the veil's symbolism and its portrayal as a conduit between life and death.

Andrew [47:09]:
"Harry and Luna can hear the voices coming from the veil. I found this interesting as a follow-up to last week's discussion on what would happen to Thestrals if they were pushed through the veil."

The hosts debate the veil's origin, purpose, and the Ministry's intentions in studying it, introducing theories about its ancient origins and potential as a portal.

2. The Brain Room

In this chamber, animated human brains float autonomously in tanks, raising unsettling questions about the nature of wizarding research.

Eric [30:35]:
"The brain is commanding my body to swim around, but my brain couldn't do it on its own. That's why there's a body."

The conversation touches on the ethical implications and possible experiments conducted by the Unspeakables, speculating whether these brains are from deceased wizards or part of nefarious experiments.

3. The Love Room

Contrary to Meg's initial critique of J.K. Rowling's explanation, the hosts propose alternative theories about the Love Room's true purpose, emphasizing its importance in understanding the force that protects Harry.

Andrew [38:07]:
"Maybe the protection here is extremely strong to protect whatever they're researching related to love."

The room's robust security is contrasted with the lax defenses of the Death Room, sparking debates about the Ministry's priorities and the thematic significance of love in the series.

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Listener Theories and Contributions

Engaging with their community, the hosts read and discuss listener-submitted theories about additional rooms within the Department of Mysteries. These contributions enrich the conversation, showcasing the creativity and depth of the podcast's fanbase.

Robert's Theory:
A special room where Fudge’s supposed enemies are displayed, along with amenities like punching bags and mirrors for self-affirmation.

Micah's Suggestion:
A Muggle Science Department studying non-magical phenomena like gravity and evolution.

Meg's Insight:
A theory positing that all such portals exist globally, potentially explaining mysteries like the Bermuda Triangle.

These interactions highlight the collaborative spirit of the podcast, encouraging fans to think outside the box and contribute to the ongoing exploration of the wizarding world's secrets.

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The Prophecy Unveiled

The discovery of the prophecy in aisle 97 marks a pivotal moment in the chapter, symbolizing deceit and the manipulation of fate.

Andrew [59:51]:
"Neville is involved in trying to caution Harry. That's no good and evil. There's only prophecies and those too weak to seek them."

The hosts dissect the emotional impact of this revelation on Harry, drawing parallels to real-life experiences of betrayal and loss. They also consider Neville's role in forewarning Harry, adding layers to his character development.

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Critical Analysis and Thematic Exploration

Throughout the episode, the hosts intertwine their critiques with thematic analyses, drawing connections between the events in the book and broader concepts like love, death, and the nature of prophecy.

Eric [44:05]:
"Love, Harry, and love are very tight. But he can't get in the door."

This exploration underscores the series' recurring emphasis on love as a potent and protective force, juxtaposed against the relentless threat of death and dark magic.

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Notable Quotes

• Andrew [09:49]:
  "Being up in the air and not knowing what I'm flying on would probably give me a panic attack."

• Meg [10:08]:
  "Some credit can be given to the Thestrals because they're smart enough to understand English and that there's a living thing on my back."

• Micah [23:33]:
  "If you guys aren't gonna do anything about it to orgs, to people in positions of power, isn't there somebody checking the flag folks who are coming into the Ministry?"

• Andrew [47:09]:
  "Harry and Luna can hear the voices coming from the veil. I found this interesting as a follow-up to last week's discussion on what would happen to Thestrals if they were pushed through the veil."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the Department of Mysteries' most intriguing room—the Death Room—and the myriad questions it raises about life, death, and the unfathomable mysteries that the wizarding world continues to guard. As the hosts prepare for future discussions, they leave listeners eagerly anticipating their next deep dive into the enigmatic halls of the Ministry of Magic.

Andrew [62:47]:
"Mugglecast turns 20 in the first week of August."

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Stay Connected with MuggleCast

For more in-depth discussions, theories, and community interactions, subscribe to MuggleCast on your favorite podcast platform. Engage with fellow Potterheads and contribute your own theories in upcoming episodes!

Transcript

[Andrew]

Welcome to mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter for 20 years and counting. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Andrew]

I thought you were gonna say I'm old. Old.

[Eric]

I was trying not to say it, but, Gosh, you guys, 20 years of Mugglecast. Next week, I want to remind everybody.

[Andrew]

That we're your Harry Potter friends, talking about the books, the movies, the upcoming TV show for the next 20 years as well. So make sure you press that follow button in your favor podcast app, so you'll never miss a week with your Potter people. And this week, we've got one foot on the ledge of the stone dais because there's voices coming from inside the veil. There are people in there. We swear we hear them. We're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 34, the Department of Mysteries. Laura couldn't make it this week, but we are very excited to be joined by Eric's wife, Meg. Welcome back, Meg.

[Eric]

Hi.

[Meg]

Thank you. It's great to be back and here to talk about some mysteries and some departments.

[Andrew]

Is this the first time you've been on since you two got married?

[Meg]

I think it is. I was on with the hype and we talked about cozy games, but I think this is the first Mugglecast that I'm on.

[Eric]

Nice.

[Meg]

The first Muggle cast with current panelists.

[Eric]

I wondered who would get that first accolade, but Eric's like, it's gotta be me.

[Andrew]

I gotta make it happen.

[Meg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

Quick, quick, quick, quick. Meg, come over here.

[Micah]

Tell us.

[Eric]

Oh, gosh.

[Meg]

We hang out with our cat, ma'.

[Eric]

Am.

[Micah]

How's Martha?

[Eric]

Martha's good. She's locked out of both of our rooms, though, right now. So we hear a loud bang. She's. Usually.

[Meg]

She hangs out with me during local cast hours, but, yeah, no, I'm on the job tonight.

[Andrew]

Well, we appreciate you, Meg, hopping on, and at the last minute. You know your stuff, though I feel like you're ready at any moment to discuss Harry Potter. Any chap.

[Meg]

We'll see.

[Eric]

And she just transcribed. Because Meg is our transcriber, she just transcribed the big Department of Mysteries episode we did. So she's more familiar with our thoughts from eight years ago than we are.

[Meg]

Yeah, I know the theories that you were talking about back then.

[Andrew]

Well, mugglecast does turn 20 years old the first week of August. We're actually recording July 31st, Harry Potter's birthday. So it's quite a special week in the wizarding world and the Mugglecast world. Harry turned 45 years old, as we discussed in Bonus Mugglecast, which we also had a lot of fun with. Right, Micah?

[Micah]

Yeah, we had a great time. We went through all of Harry's birthdays in the Harry Potter series, so from books one to seven. And then we came up with some gift ideas for him. We gave some gift ideas to some characters. Might have gotten a little inappropriate at times, but, you know, that's the beauty of Bonus Mugglecast. When you're behind the paywall, anything goes. Andrew cannot censor me like he can in this show.

[Eric]

His power stop at the door, right?

[Andrew]

The capability just does not exist.

[Eric]

Oh, man.

[Meg]

Micah unleashed back there.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, Mugglecast turns 20 in the first week of August. And to celebrate, we'll be doing a 20th anniversary themed episode of the show next week. So look forward to that. And we're also celebrating by launching a special deal on our Patreon. We have not done this before. For the whole month of August, you can get 20% off an annual subscription to our Patreon. This is the largest discount we have ever offered on our Patreon. Typically when you pledge for a year up front, you would get 10 to 15% off. Now you can get 20% off for the month of August. Just visit patreon.com mugglecast and at checkout, enter promo code 20 years. 20 years. We really wanted to do a promotion on Patreon because our Patreon is the reason why we have made it this far. So thank you to everyone who has supported us there. If you aren't a member, help us reach the next 20 year milestone. And next week, as a teaser, I'll just say now I want us to make predictions about what's going on in the Harry Potter fandom 20 years from now. Start thinking about that.

[Eric]

Harry Potter's 65th birthday. He retires from the Ministry of Magic. Can't wait for that bonus.

[Andrew]

Your support helps us keep the show running as reliably as the giant motor powering that spinning room with all those doors. And to thank you for supporting this indie podcast, you'll get two bonus episodes of the show every month. You'll also get ad free episodes and physical gifts. In fact, we just announced year four of the Mugglecast Collectors Club. Five brand new stickers celebrating mug past and present are available now. Micah, tell everybody the stickers that we have.

[Micah]

All right, Are you ready for these stickers? There is a sticker to commemorate our 700th episode. We recently celebrated 700 episodes not that long ago. A I declare canon, which Obviously, I can't do as well as Andrew with the design inspired by Monty Python. Do we have that clip?

[Andrew]

I. Yeah, here.

[Eric]

I.

[Andrew]

I declare canon.

[Micah]

That's what it sounded like here hour or so ago.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Meg]

Oh, exciting.

[Micah]

A birthday cake created by Hagrid just for us.

[Andrew]

That was so nice of him to do that.

[Micah]

Not for Harry, just for us. And let's not forget Quizzage with a design inspired by Jeopardy. And a goat with a headset. Wonder who that's for?

[Eric]

That's for you. It says Vermica.

[Micah]

Oh, yeah. But it was weird if I read it like that.

[Eric]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[Micah]

So thank you for the assistant.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So these are all inspired, like we said, by Mugglecast references past and present. We have a lot of fun dreaming these up. We have one more year of the Collectors Club to go, so please don't miss out. Patreon.com mugglecast Put in 20 years at checkout and you'll get 20% off an annual membership. And by the way, we have the Collector's Club. And then we have a separate physical gift that goes out to slug Club patrons. And we're going to be announcing that next week. Eric, is that the plan?

[Eric]

I believe so.

[Andrew]

Okay, very excited.

[Eric]

Time to pledge. This 20% discount has come at the perfect time because this is the time.

[Andrew]

Of year to do it.

[Eric]

Yeah, it is. Thanks as always, for those. Goes out to Anna, who we use, who's designed the entire Collector's Club. She has been a wonderful collaborator to work with on this and is the artist behind all of the magic.

[Andrew]

Yeah, like our album art. Our current album art. She did that as well.

[Eric]

It occurs to me she also did the 19 years later shirt that we did last year that I'm wearing now.

[Andrew]

She did, yeah. Yeah.

[Eric]

She's always up to date, too.

[Andrew]

Well, thanks everybody. And onward we go into the next 20 years. And this week we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 34, the Department of Mysteries.

[Eric]

As mentioned last week, this was a shared chapter discussion episode. We talked about it on episode 471 of Mugglecast called Punk'd, which is what Harry gets in this chapter, Punked, and that aired on June 30th of 2020. Here is a clip from our discussion for chapter 34. Three turns should do it, I think. Good luck. What the.

[Meg]

Episode 471, don't we later find out that that's the love room.

[Eric]

Yeah. Dumbledore tells Harry. He asks him directly, what's in that door, Professor?

[Meg]

And see, this is Why? I think that probably under normal circumstances all these other doors would be locked too. But I could see the Death Eaters opening them. Except the love door. Cause they're like oh we don't want to open that one because that defeated our boss last time.

[Eric]

Or they're just like ew. Gross. Love.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Meg]

Ew.

[Andrew]

Cuties.

[Eric]

Cooties.

[Micah]

Maybe Bellatrix opened it just a little bit and then that's why we have a cursed child.

[Eric]

Mysterious thing time.

[Andrew]

I do like this segment because I forget about the things we said.

[Eric]

It's. It's good to look back. It's good to look back.

[Meg]

It's fun. Fun little reminders.

[Eric]

Yeah. And speaking of looking back there was actually. It's funny. So 471 we talked about the Department of Mysteries. We also did. Did a big as mentioned at the top of the show, Department of Mysteries Deep Dive episode. This was number 374 and that is on our audio feed. And the transcript as well is now available. That's from June 25th of 2018. That was the episode where we really went room by room and we're like what are our thoughts? Which we will be doing some of in this week. But first you guys, I have to talk about Thestrals. Because this very unique way that our heroes get to London for their rescue mission is kind of something that. Because you're very excited. The momentum of this chapter is so real. You finally want to get to London. There have been all these setbacks. You finally want to get there. I find myself not often questioning just what really is happening with the Thestral. So my question to you all. And this is going to sound bad is it? Don't read too much into it. I just want to ask why don't more of Harry's friends die getting to London? Because this is. This is. This is a terrifying thing. Half of them can't even see the creatures they're riding on. Luna like helped them up at the thing. It was just like you got this.

[Andrew]

Being up in the air and not knowing what I'm flying on would probably give me a panic attack. I have enough of a panic attack risk on a plane and I can see everything I'm you know, I'm sitting down on and whatnot.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

But this in the open air flying in on an invisible object. Yeah, it's scary. It's scary.

[Eric]

And a living breathing, beating wings creature too as well. Like it just at one point there's a scream and Harry fully expects to look around and see somebody falling. It's Just like there's, there's no protection here. There's no. And what would he do if that were the case? If somebody was falling? You really can't hope for anything here. This is terrifying.

[Meg]

I think some credit can be given to the Thestrals because well, first of all they're smart enough to understand English. I feel like they also are thus smart enough to understand like a living thing is on my back and I'm in charge of them not dying. And we're also, we also know that Dumbledore rides Thestrals sometimes. Earlier in the book Hagrid says something like Dumbledore takes the Thestrals to London sometimes when he doesn't want to aberrate. And Dumbledore is kind of, you know, old and rickety and you imagine that, you know, if he can survive this. Oh then, then the others. I also think, you know, Ron and Ginny, despite not being able to see the Thestrals they, you know, they play Quidditch. They probably have some, some instinct on how to not like die while flying on something in the air. True. Neville, while not athletic, he can see the Thestrals. So he's got that going for him.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Meg]

But yeah, Hermione should have died.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Eric]

I had, I had some things I was going to say to like some of the middle stuff but just the end there.

[Micah]

Given her recent commentary on horse like creatures you would think that's true. The Thestrals were listening in the bushes and they heard her and they're just going to like back kick her off mid flight.

[Eric]

I don't know whether or not the Thestrals understand English but I do know they understand the currency of warm blood on their robes. Her mind. So they understood English, I guess they.

[Meg]

Understood visitors entrance to the.

[Eric]

They got them right there. It's. I wonder if it's the same magic as owls that you know, kind of lead these flying creatures to a destination. All you have to do is state it.

[Micah]

So kind of what I imagined when you asked this question was either how I appeared was when riding Hagrid's magical creature motorbike adventure. That was a gripping on for dear life. Even though I was on the motorbike.

[Eric]

I was gonna say I don't remember you falling like it's a great photo.

[Micah]

Actually we should find it and share it in the show notes but. Or being in the middle seat on an airplane, that's the worst seat arguably to be in and you just feel like you can't move especially if you're you know, a Little bit of a bigger person like myself.

[Andrew]

Nicole, who's listening live on our Patreon right now, is saying, I guess we have to credit Hagrid for having them so well trained. And I think we should do that because we tend to be a little critical of Hagrid on this podcast.

[Meg]

And maybe Hagrid also taught them English.

[Eric]

I don't know.

[Meg]

He's teaching Grop English.

[Eric]

He did? Well, no. Is he? Is he really?

[Meg]

He's taught Grop five words in English.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. All of his efforts. All of his efforts went to teaching the Thestrals English so that Dumbledore could take them to London when he wanted to. So, yeah, this is a little less luxurious than one would hope, but it is emergency transport to Micah's point and Meg's point. They do go exactly where they need to. But this is actually not the first invisible thing that our heroes have ridden above the skies of Hogwarts and of London, if we often love connecting the threads. But I was getting flashbacks to the sometimes invisible Mr. Weasley's flying car, which also was not as pleasant of an experience as it should have been, but also just in general. Hippogriffs, when Harry rides Buckbeak, they go above Hogwarts. The broomstick. At times it's been uncomfortable. So I guess what we're gathering is no magical mode of transportation can just be everything you want it to be. Just like no public transit in the muggle world is 100% foolproof.

[Andrew]

They all have a bit of danger to them. That's, you know, it's something we talk about in the wizarding world. Everything's got a little tinge of danger to it.

[Micah]

It feels like broomstick would probably have been the best option here, just given how familiar most of them are with it. Thestrals, they're taking on for the first time. So there's that element of it too, where there's a high level of unpredictability and presumably with a broomstick. And maybe you could have done this with a Thestral too. Could more than one of them have fit on instead of making Ron, Hermione and Ginny ride creatures they can't see?

[Andrew]

Yeah, that probably would have been smart. I'm also just thinking brooms would have been smart because, like you said, they know how to use brooms if, heaven forbid, they got into some danger while in the air. Death Eaters, whatever else, you know, they'd be able to act faster, I think, to deflect, fly away. Whereas with the Thestrals you know, if you don't know how to really control them, you might get into some trouble there.

[Meg]

Yeah, you'd think that they could have just been like, let's head down to the Quidditch pitch and grab some brooms to go. Like. Especially because Umbridge, who's.

[Eric]

To go.

[Meg]

Especially because Umbridge is the one who's, you know, been cracking dawn at everyone. But she's gone.

[Eric]

Yeah, well. And I'm sure after all they went through to get as far as they did and get rid of Umbridge, the last thing Harry wanted to do was wrestle a troll to get his broom back. But the school training rooms are right there. The cupboard that they're kept in, or the shed that gets mentioned a couple of times throughout the series. That's right there. So pretty interesting. But we're gonna land and enjoy the meat of the chapter, which is, of course, the most mysterious place of all time. First, we would like to hear a few words from our sponsors. Cool. Cool. So we are in London and we are entering the manual public entrance to the Ministry. That Harry, so good, he was paying attention and knows what numbers to dial on the telephone. But he doesn't even say thank you to the Thestrals. I can't believe it. Just like, you know, we need a hairy sucks count. Honestly, it's time to start it.

[Meg]

He gave his Thestral a pat. I don't know if anyone else did.

[Eric]

Presumably. And they're gone because there's garbage that they can root through. They're like, yeah.

[Meg]

Maybe they thought that was their feast. They're like, ooh, yeah.

[Andrew]

And this is why I'm with you on criticizing Harry for not thanking them. Because these poor Thestrals are apparently so desperate for food that they're going into a dumpster to find something. That's a sad state of affairs for them.

[Eric]

It's crazy because with most people being unable to see them, especially even in the Muggle world, they could probably get up to some real hijinks in a major city. They could eat anything they want.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Steal a lot. If, like, some nice old fellow is sitting on a park bench and he puts his cupcake down and he doesn't see any birds, but the cupcake starts disappearing bite by bite. Like, he won't be able to know.

[Meg]

Why there's some good food in London. To go get a curry, go to a chippy.

[Eric]

Sorry, a chippy.

[Meg]

You know, a chip shop.

[Andrew]

Oh, fish and chips.

[Eric]

So, Andrew, there is a. Harry's muttering to himself and there's a particular moment that you wanted to highlight.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So Harry does say, if Voldemort decided Sirius was going to crack, I would know. He isn't feeling any emotion coming from Voldemort in this whole chapter, actually. And this should have been a major red flag that something was awry. Something's not right. Maybe he should have slowed down and considered this vision a little more. Because if this really was happening, Harry and Voldemort's connection would have been experiencing something. Because Sirius definitely wouldn't have cracked for Voldemort. He would rather die.

[Eric]

Right. And why no follow up imagery? Why no other kind of flashes? Especially because Harry's going towards where Voldemort is. I mean, Harry's scar works like a magnet, like this. And if they get closer, Harry should be feeling more, not less. It's really just been that one vision. And then everything that's going on since then could maybe be seen as distracting Harry Potter. But, like, there's just nothing. Nothing's coming through on the feed. If you were to turn the television on, it would be static right now.

[Micah]

Instead, he was so cold he couldn't feel anything.

[Andrew]

That's the secret to avoiding Voldemort's pain. Through our star.

[Eric]

That's better than cold.

[Meg]

But yeah, rather than like, if, if Voldemort did truly have Sirius at the Department of Mysteries right now and this was what Harry was feeling through his scar. Like, the only way that would be possible is if Voldemort had said Sirius. Like, all right, now we just kick back and we wait and then, you know, Voldemort stretched out on a nice long chair somewhere.

[Micah]

Hammock.

[Meg]

On a hammock.

[Eric]

Yeah, probably hammocks down in the Unspeakables break room.

[Meg]

There's gotta be.

[Micah]

There's gotta be.

[Eric]

You know, they have foosball too.

[Micah]

In fairness. Fairness to Harry, though.

[Meg]

Air hockey.

[Micah]

Arthur's vision only happened once.

[Meg]

This is why, rather than being taught Occlumency all year, Harry should have just been learning, like, scar 101.

[Andrew]

Like how you know your scars. Being honest.

[Meg]

Exactly.

[Eric]

Exactly. Yeah. Well, no, and that's a great point, Micah. That's well taken. I think you've made a similar one before in that, like, I've never really put too much weight on the cleverness of having the Mr. Weasley scene in this book because it really justifies a lot of Harry and Ron's behavior. Behavior. It talks about why they believe in Harry's vision and it also talks about why he doesn't question it. It just plants. It does. It works on so many levels. To have had the Mr. Weasley thing happen at Christmas so that this fake vision can just pervade and escape unscrutinized in June.

[Meg]

And such a. Such an emotional pull, too. Because when Harry sees Sirius in danger, that's Harry's emotional pull. He's like, oh, my God, my godfather is in danger. And at first Ron and Hermione are both kind of like. But then as soon as Harry's like, okay, but Ron, you're dad. That's when Ron is like, oh, yep, I'm with Harry here. We gotta go.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And I know it doesn't mean as much to him in the grand scheme of things but the Avery vision also is a factor here because it happened in between the one with Arthur and the one with Sirius. And Harry remembers how painful that situation was for him which you could argue should have given him a little bit more of a clue as to the fact the serious one was fake because he wasn't feeling as much of an intense reaction to it. But again, he's now had a series of visions that have occurred which he knows to be true. Why should he not believe the one about Sirius to be true?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I just feel like if Voldemort was torturing Sirius he'd be feeling that emotion coming through to his scar and Harry would not. If he wasn't getting what he wanted, he'd feel that coming through his scar. Like Voldemort would be experiencing some powerful emotion that would be making it to Harry's head and he's not getting it. And I think what we're supposed to be taking from moments like the one I quoted is that there are some red flags here that Harry isn't fully digesting.

[Eric]

Yeah, I remember just a few chapters ago we went through, like, what were the signs that this was fake and should Harry have known? And like, I agree, Harry doesn't have the level of self control at this junction where he would be tuning out or able to tune out what's going on currently with Voldemort and Sirius. He would be constantly looking. Somebody else would need to fly the thestal for him or make sure he doesn't fall off. Because Harry would be constantly watching. You know, sometimes he just like decides to look and then he sees later on what's going on with Voldemort. That would be him now because he couldn't afford to miss what's going on. It's just kind of. Yeah.

[Meg]

All the more reason for them to double up on thestrals.

[Eric]

So let's get into it. We have talked about how the atrium of the Ministry is deserted. Eric Munch not doing his job. We know. What?

[Meg]

Listen, Eric Munch checks out at 5:00pm yeah, he's gone.

[Eric]

Yeah, he's very big on working.

[Andrew]

Paid enough to stay late.

[Micah]

Can we also talk about how there should be some security measure in place when Harry Potter checks into the department of. Or the Ministry of Magic?

[Eric]

Yeah, he gave his real name, didn't he?

[Micah]

Not only that, he says he's there for a rescue mission.

[Andrew]

If you guys aren't gonna do anything.

[Micah]

About it to orgs, to people in positions of power. Isn't there somebody checking the flag folks who are coming into the Ministry?

[Meg]

Yeah, maybe, maybe they did have an alert but then they kept getting prank calls by like the teen London wizards who would be like, it's Harry Potter.

[Eric]

And then the Ministry was like, London wizards?

[Meg]

Those youths, those youth, they were like, you know what? Harry Potter's not coming here. Just cancel.

[Eric]

Well, if Harry Potter's not a red flag, Neville Longbottom should be. Because that's what Harry said his name was when he went on the night bus. But Neville's with them, so they said Neville's name too. And that didn't raise any flags, so.

[Meg]

It would be under.

[Eric]

It's funny because I think like Neville's probably a known alias of Harry Potter because of what happened in year three. So now Neville can't sign into government buildings without getting extra security checks. Poor Neville. But yeah, I agree, this is just kind of wild. I really do wonder how they managed to pull this off and have so few people. Because that security position is not something that at 5 o' clock it stops. It's a shift. Somebody else has to come take that over.

[Andrew]

And, and, and Harry even notes that when he's taking the elevator he notices how noisy it is which he didn't notice when he was there for his trial. And he's noticing that because everything else is so quiet. It's quiet too quiet. It's that type of thing. Like, yeah, there's too many red flags. And it's, you know, rereading this chapter, knowing where it's going he falls right into Voldemort's and the Death Eater's trap. It's just, it's tough to read.

[Meg]

Rereading it, I was trying to find out, is there any point where he actually says to Neville or Luna, like, hey, just so we, just so you're aware, we're gonna go See Voldemort right now, like they're kind of vague about what they're doing. Like it's not until even like at the end when Neville's like Sirius Black. Was, Was that a friend of yours, Harry? Like he and Neville, he and Luna are just like not. They're not really told what's going on.

[Eric]

They're along the ride.

[Micah]

Luna's somewhat clued in on the serious end of things because she refers to him as Stubby Boardman.

[Meg]

Yeah, but I really want to know. So she thinks that they're there for Stubby Boardman.

[Eric]

I want to know what she thinks they're doing there. Like, totally.

[Micah]

Yeah. It, it's, there's definitely an eerie sense of them entering the Ministry. The fact that you're in this huge government entity and it's totally empty. As Andrew said, the elevators are making noise. You'd think though, Harry was just there at the beginning of or just prior to him going off to Hogwarts, that that should have also been a major clue to him that something wasn't right. Like there has to be somebody there. Like people work late in all sorts of office settings and I would assume the Ministry is a place that, you.

[Andrew]

Know, even a government building.

[Micah]

Government building. Like those people are working long hours overtime.

[Andrew]

Crime doesn't end crimes around the clock.

[Eric]

No, no, no. Yeah, there's, there's 24 hour security for sure. The thing that I like about it, I've never noticed this before. When Harry signs in, in the telephone booth, he says that they're there to save some people and if your ministry can't do it first, he actually gives the government a little bit of credit. He's like, hey, you guys, we're here. And also you guys should, should come join us. Like I gotta, I gotta say, Harry has no reason to really be like that trusting of them. But he flat out says it like you guys should.

[Andrew]

Well, I took that as I'm frustrated that I have to come here and take care of this myself. Like, why is my. Yeah, it's Godfather in danger? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Meg]

I'm 15. Why am I doing this?

[Andrew]

Here I go again, saving AI.

[Eric]

Telephone booth lady. That's not going to get you anywhere.

[Meg]

You ever try sassing Series proof?

[Andrew]

I have a saving people thing because nobody else goes and saves people.

[Eric]

Harry Potter parenthesis annoying rescue mission. Yeah. Oh man.

[Meg]

No, I imagine that this entire time Hermione was thinking like, this isn't right. There should be people here. Something is very wrong. But she has just been so rattled by the entire day. Like she just wanted to finish her owl. She's cold.

[Eric]

She's cold.

[Meg]

She, she, you know, royally screwed up with the centaurs. Grop was bleeding all over her. I just imagine at this point she's just exhausted and so she's like, I'm, I just can't even, I don't have the bandwidth to even argue with Harry anymore about this.

[Micah]

I do like what Michelle said in the Discord. Luna doesn't need to know what they're doing there. She's a total ride or die. It's true.

[Andrew]

Immediately.

[Eric]

Yeah, and I've said this before, but I like the friendship that like Luna and Ginny have sort of inter house friendship that they're down a corridor, they hear a noise, they both go check it out. You know, it's. We were talking in the last chapter how wild it is that this big group forms. But really like these people have been spending time together all year and Neville at least you know, really wants to be able to help and be able to prove himself to himself. I think in the defense front.

[Meg]

And I can't remember if this happens in the book, but it is a nice touch in the movie when Neville kind of has that moment with Bellatrix where she like says, how are your parents? And he says, you know better now. They're about to be avenged. You're like, oh, Neville is meant to.

[Eric]

Be here right now. That line goes hard. That line goes real hard. So let's talk. So essentially the Department of Mysteries is exactly how Harry remembers it in his dream. That's probably a red flag. There's always something that changes, right? That chair wasn't there. It should be there.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It shouldn't be perfectly accurate.

[Eric]

It shouldn't be empty and it shouldn't be exactly the same. Accurate. But at this point he's so far along he's just going to get to the end of the thing, make a right at the room and then it's going to, you know, he's not, there's no, there's no way he's turning back. So we get into the room that rotates and it's like we joked, but like it's got to be a big motor, right, that just rotates the walls and the doors and the owls underneath.

[Andrew]

Spinning it around, working over time. How elves are spinning it around from below.

[Eric]

Just a crank, just a big wooden crank that they're turning.

[Micah]

Just a thestral on a wheel. Going around in a circle.

[Meg]

A thestral on a wheel.

[Eric]

Oh. And it's raw meat dangling on a stick in front of it. And it's going to the raw meat.

[Micah]

We're horrible people.

[Eric]

Yeah, but the Ministry is more horrible for making that.

[Meg]

Exactly. We want them to be freed.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Free the thestrals.

[Meg]

Let them go. Yeah, let them go. Root around in that dumpster.

[Eric]

So let's talk about one of the rooms here, and it's a bit awkward. There's a giant tank. There's these floaty white things which are not immediately apparent what they are. And it turns out that's right. Not your first five guesses, but your sixth guess. Human brains is what's in there.

[Andrew]

I'm squeamish when it comes to stuff like this. I've been watching the Pit lately on Max. I'm sure some of our listeners have been watching that. It shows a lot of stuff coming out of the body, and that's hard for me to watch. So I've always been this type of way. So I couldn't handle this room. I'd be out of there once I realized they were brains.

[Meg]

I like Luna's theory. She doesn't like Aquavarious Maggots. I don't want to imagine maggots that size just swimming.

[Eric]

No, thank you.

[Micah]

I would hear you say that one time.

[Andrew]

Oh, Luna.

[Eric]

That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah.

[Meg]

Give her something.

[Eric]

I love that.

[Meg]

Yes, Luna, it is maggots.

[Eric]

For there to actually be, like, empirical proof that the Rotfang conspiracy or something is real, and they just stumble upon it in a room and then she's like, daddy's gonna love this, and she takes the document. Yeah, she's earned that much.

[Micah]

For me, it's despite the fact that we are in the wizarding world, I think this room in particular shows that witches and wizards likely know just as much or as little about the human mind and all of its inc. Intricacies. And so they need to study, just like doctors here in the Muggle world study the brain. And there's so much about it that we still don't know. I feel like we're finding out new things each and every year.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Meg]

I wonder if there's any overlap between unspeakables and healers in this room.

[Eric]

That's an interesting.

[Meg]

They're unspeakable, except for where they speak to some healers about it, so that healers can better work with this kind of thing.

[Eric]

At St. Mungus, well, they've solved the big problem, which is that, you know, in. In the Muggle world, we can only really study the brain through, like, MRI and some imaging devices, or after it's after the host has been deceased. However, this time they solve the problem of the brain being hidden in people's heads, and they manage somehow to get the brains to animate themselves. This is the part that unsettles me. I tried to figure out what about. This is creepy. Is it a giant tank? Is it the way the lighting is? No, it's the fact that brains are autonomously swimming around in a tank, not just sitting in formaldehyde, but actually swimming around that unsettles me. Are these then the exact same as a human brain that has just come from someone's head? You know, be a wizard? Or are they something more?

[Meg]

Well, Eric, when you're swimming around, isn't that your brain swimming itself around just with, like, added flesh?

[Eric]

Yeah. My brain is commanding my body to swim around, but my brain couldn't do it on its own. That's why there's a body.

[Andrew]

So you're kind of saying.

[Meg]

So you don't like that these brains have a little power.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. There's basically the brains with tentacles that extend and attack is just kind of one step too far for me.

[Micah]

This could be some kind of bad experiment that goes wrong. When we get to the actual battle portion and we see one of the brains attack Ron in the next chapter, who knows what kind of things the unspeakables might be doing to these brains to try and find out different things. Right. Like, they could be doing magic on them, and that's why they have these tentacles and attack. I don't know.

[Andrew]

That's an interesting take. Yeah. Because you would think if your brain is being dissected like this and analyzed and used for research, maybe the brain would be like, well, I don't like this. And becomes increasingly.

[Micah]

Especially a magical brain.

[Meg]

Hostile.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Meg]

In. In374, you guys all kind of theorize, like, what if, like, can you be an organ donor? Are. Were these brains donated by wizards? And you talk about a bit like, are the. What kind of wizard would donate their brain for this? Is it, like, very powerful wizards and that's what they're studying? Could it be, like, the brains of evil wizards? And could that be why they attack? Because these are evil brains, Brains of.

[Andrew]

Magical beasts too, Maybe. We don't necessarily know if they're human brains.

[Eric]

Could be the brains that were jettisoned out of people who went through the veil and ended up in the brain room.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

But I also think too, like, I love this idea. I guess I'm first considering it that when we think of the Department of Mysteries, we think of these rooms as being the definitive way to study their subject matter. You know, like the time room. Like, oh, there's no better. Clearly there's no better way to study time than exactly the structure of the Time room. But I love this idea that Micah brought up that this could just be mad science happening. Like, this doesn't need to be the definitive way to study whatever it is they're studying in that room. This is just a creepy room in a creepy place, which you're bound to.

[Micah]

Find in a place called the Department of Mysteries.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I was just going to say. I mean, we just got to keep that in mind, too. Like, they are just trying to answer in all of these departments, life's big questions. Death. Love the brain. You know, I think Micah, you said a few minutes ago, we're still. There's still endless research to do on humans and the human body and the human experience, all that. So I can. It's not like necessarily surprising that they're analyzing the brain. They can just do it in a way that Muggles can't. And that's the shocking part.

[Eric]

To that end, I want to say I have a less creepy suggestion for what they could be studying here. And I wonder if, because there's more than one brain in a tank, what would be the purpose of doing that? Unless the brains are connected or linked telepathically. Maybe they're trying to create like a collective consciousness or something.

[Andrew]

There's so many options. Maybe they're doing all of them. There's no one goal here.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And we don't know who's doing the actual research and what their background is. They could be a bit of a mad scientist at the end of the day and doing experiments under the Ministry's nose that, I mean, let's face it, it's not like the Ministry keeps tabs. What's going on in the Ministry. Right, yeah.

[Meg]

Who is overseeing the Unspeakables? I kind of feel like they just have free reign to do whatever they.

[Eric]

Want, like special projects.

[Meg]

Like if an Unspeakable is like, I want to get a massive tank and fill it with brains.

[Eric]

Are like, sure, man. Oh, that's Dave's idea again. Always Dave. I have to think there's some hierarchy. There are people that they. I mean, if the. If the wizarding world had like a Department of Defense. Right. Or homeless insecurity or something like that, there would always be a higher level justification and a higher level of like supervision than just whoever happens to work in that department because there's people who hire them and there must be some kind of motive behind that. But, yeah, who knows? There is. Of course, the famous room that Harry and friends cannot get into. And instead of using the gift from Sirius that Harry should have used all year he instead tries to use the knife and fails miserably to open the door to the room that Dumbledore tells him is filled with love.

[Andrew]

The world's greatest mystery. And. Yeah. So can't be unlocked with Sirius's knife or alohomora. And it's kind of interesting that the protection here is extremely strong to protect whatever they're researching related to love. Related to one of the most mysterious things of all time. It kind of feels funny to say that love is so mysterious, but it kind of.

[Eric]

I know, I know. When you think of love, you think mystery.

[Andrew]

Absolutely. But what's funny to me is that this one's locked down. But meanwhile, the death room, where the veil is like, oh, anybody can just go in, no problem, you know? Yeah, it's. It's no issue. So you can die in one room.

[Meg]

To the death room.

[Eric]

Yeah. Right, right.

[Andrew]

A lot of security should be there. And. And, but, but, But I think this is sort of trying to tell us something about just. I don't know if it's the author. Is the author trying to tell us something about love? Which I guess maybe kind of ties into Lily's protection for Harry saving his life.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Eric]

It's just as well that we didn't see what's inside it and get told later by Dumbledore what's inside it because they're. I mean, frankly, if you're writing a Department of Mysteries and it's supposed to house all the mysteries of the universe that wizards are working on, you have to have a door you can't open. It doesn't matter what's in there. There has to be a door. No matter what you can't open.

[Meg]

No matter.

[Andrew]

It doesn't matter what's happening in there is too inappropriate for children. And the author was like, you know, I'm locking the kids. Can't get in here. That's.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Meg]

There was a interview where the author was on an episode of Potter Cast and they asked her about this. And I don't like what she said. She said in the love room, there's just a bunch of unspeakables taking. Drinking love potions and seeing how they act. And, and, and that the door is locked because of that And I think that's stupid, but.

[Andrew]

But you can still go and die in the other room. I don't know that. Yeah, I think she just pulls stuff out of thin air. Just, like, without thinking.

[Meg]

She was like, I don't want to be on podcast anymore. I'm just gonna. I think I need to get out of here.

[Eric]

I think it's one of the dumbest answers I've ever heard. Well, because Amortentia, the love potion, is not love. It's infatuation. It's certainly not. It cannot be likened, no matter how hard you try, to the love that gives Harry his protection from his mother can't. So for the love room to be just a bunch of unspeakables taking some.

[Meg]

Love potion, and for it to be like, oh, the door's obviously locked, because crazy things go on in there. I much prefer that the door is just locked because the study of love is so strong that the love room has kind of, like, locked itself from outsiders and that only the worthy can get in. Yeah, something like that. And that. It's not just people in there drinking club potions and seeing what happens. I imagine that room to be more about what, Studying what is love? Maybe don't hurt me, but, like.

[Andrew]

Like, hurt me.

[Meg]

Like, I imagine it to be about, like, what is the purpose of love? Love is it.

[Andrew]

Who's saying that? Maybe, like, that person's in the love.

[Eric]

Room just singing, like.

[Meg]

Because there's so many questions, though. Like, why. Why does love exist? Is it. If it's just, like, for the biological imperative to, like, find companionship and reproduce, how does that explain, like, why certain. Certain people who find love don't end up reproducing? And, like, why is love different between humans than it is between other species? And. And. And. But then, like, why do certain species, like, mate for life? Why are certain species monogamous versus not? And, like, what. What kind of love is that? This is, like, what I like to imagine is going on in that room.

[Micah]

Based on what she said, it sounds like the love room is just the.

[Eric]

Break room that we talked about earlier. There's baseball and an orgy pit. Sorry, a conversation.

[Andrew]

And the band Foreigner is in there as well, and they're singing their 1984 hit, I Want to Know what Love is.

[Meg]

It's just a concert room.

[Eric]

Yeah. And Tita Turner's in there, too, and she's singing what's love got do to. To do? Got to do with it.

[Andrew]

Why is the love room got a lock? Got a lock on it?

[Eric]

Yeah. But I mean, to Andrew's point, look, the Death Room, which we're going to talk about you can just go up to it, presumably jump in and never return.

[Meg]

You can die in the Death Room without even going through the veil. You just fall down the 20ft of steps.

[Eric]

Yeah. Very dangerous. You're going to break your neck.

[Micah]

To the clip you played earlier, though, perhaps Death Eaters were strategic in terms of the rooms that they were making available.

[Andrew]

That wasn't a clip, Micah. That was me really singing Foreigner. I want to know what love is.

[Eric]

I feel more powerful.

[Micah]

Me too.

[Meg]

No, that was actually. Foreigner was here.

[Eric]

The question is, if the Death Eaters. Okay, if the Death Eaters went around unlocking all the doors and they decided not to unlock the Love Room was there the insight there that maybe the forces within the Love Room could have actually made Harry more powerful because love protects Harry from Voldemort, presumably. That would be one that. I mean, I don't think any Death Eater or Voldemort has a concept so conscious. That is, love is what I don't have and will be my undoing to avoid it. But at the same time, if Harry went in there, he'd pretty much be invincible.

[Meg]

It's his love for his friends glowing and flexing.

[Eric]

Yeah. It's his love for his friends that saves him time and again. It's his love for Sirius that prevents him from jumping through the veil that he kind of wants to do in the Death Room.

[Meg]

It's his love for Sirius that gets Voldemort out of his head a few chapters from now when Voldemort tries to possess him.

[Eric]

Yeah. So love, love, Harry and love are very tight. But he can't get in the door.

[Micah]

And I doubt the Death Eaters with one bunch of Unspeakables running around while they're trying to.

[Eric]

What if the Death Eaters just locked everyone in the love room and was like, they'll entertain themselves now.

[Andrew]

Kiss now.

[Eric]

And the Unspeakables are like, this is just Thursday. This is just what we do every week. This is fun.

[Meg]

Maybe that's why the Death Eaters in Voldemort scheduled it for that night. They were like, Thursday night is when karaoke. The Unspeakables go to karaoke in the love room. We'll just lock them in there and then we do our plan.

[Micah]

One of the things I wanted to mention, though and this is what makes what the author said just even more questionable is that Dumbledore, later on in this book describes this room as Containing a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature.

[Eric]

It sounds to me like he and Grindelwald were in that room once.

[Micah]

I was gonna say, yeah.

[Eric]

That can't be a canon. I don't care who said it. There's no. There's no way that there is a. Just like the veil, which we're gonna talk to talk about in a moment, is an otherworldly thing that mankind, I think, could not have created, but which they are forced to always witness. The Love Room contains something just like that.

[Meg]

It can't just be unspeakable as being in the room. Like. Smells like chocolate to me. Smells like fresh grass to me.

[Eric]

Let's talk about the stone dais and the room that it's in. After more words from these sponsors. Alrighty, we're back and it's time to talk about the room that is not appearing on the Deathly Hellas American Edition cover. It's a large stone amphitheater with a crumbly dais down, down, down. In the center of a large, like I said, amphitheater type room. Now, Harry is strangely drawn to this room. It's one of the first ones they go into. And, you know, the stakes could not be higher. He needs to find Sirius. But something about the veil just attracts Harry. And Hermione, who we mentioned being exhausted from her flight and her horrible day, actually snaps out of herself long enough to scream at Harry to back up that the veil is dangerous and that he needs to focus on finding Sirius. She at least has the wherewithal because he's got. He doesn't even realize he's doing this. He has one foot stepping up. He is sure that there are people inside the veil. People. Not. Not person, not an intelligence, not something vaguely. He feels he's being watched. People. He thinks there are people on the other side. Guys, what's going on here?

[Andrew]

I mean, the foreshadowing is overwhelming to the point where I almost feel like you can't call it foreshadowing because it's just telling you what's going to happen. Harry is calling to Sirius in the veil, in the Veil Room, in the Death Room. And Harry and Luna can hear the voices coming from the veil. And I actually found this to be pretty interesting as a follow up to last week's discussion on what would happen to Thestrals if they were pushed through the veil. So it sounds like if you have experienced witnessing somebody die, you can hear voices coming through the veil, right? And So I just, I was very surprised by how just kind of like obvious it is what's going to happen. Reading it again, hindsight's 2020 but I can't believe that Harry is hearing Sirius through the veil already.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, and I can't remember sequentially does the Death Room come before the Love Room in the chapter?

[Meg]

I think it does. I think it's brains, then death, then love, then time.

[Micah]

What ends up happening as they try and enter the Love Room, which was mentioned is Sirius's knife basically dissolves. And that's another bit of foreshadowing. You could argue that basically Sirius is about to dissolve.

[Andrew]

So that's what he was hearing through the veil. It was actually serious knife because it had died.

[Eric]

Oh really? Just the question about whether Luna. I mean it's a small sample size but yes, we know that the few people that can see Thestrals also can hear these voices. Harry is desperate just not to be the only one who can hear them. I think he doesn't want to be proven to be crazy.

[Meg]

Well, Harry and Luna definitely hear the voices. Harry's kind of like, I think there's voices in there. Luna's like, there are voices in there. And then Neville and Ginny are also kind of staring entranced at it. And Neville has also seen death, but Ginny hasn't. But she's still entranced by it. And I imagine it has something to do with her experience as a first year student at Hogwarts what happened that entire year. Meanwhile, Ron and Hermione are so like, what's the big deal? And Hermione, I think Hermione's anger comes from like not being able to understand something. I think that's what is fueling her being like, it's dangerous. Get away from it. I think is that she just doesn't understand it. And I think out of the six people there, Ron and Hermione are the two that are most like not like Hermione ruled by her head definitely, but like the, the, the two like most.

[Eric]

Realistic, most like in reality grounded of.

[Meg]

Yeah, most. Most grounded of that six. And that's why they're kind of like, this is weird. We're going to stay away from it. Come on.

[Eric]

Pure. Yeah.

[Micah]

Ron and Harry were almost playing like peekaboo around the side of the. I was worried for a minute for Ron that was going to happen there.

[Eric]

But glad nothing reached out and grabbed him.

[Micah]

Yeah, I did pull from that same interview you mentioned earlier, Meg, what the author had to say about the veil. And I Can just read it here quickly. She said that it's the divide between life and death. I tried to do a nod to that in the Tale of the Three Brothers. She was separate from them as though through a veil you can't go back. If you pass through that veil, you cannot come back or you can't come back in any form that will make either person happy anyway. But when they surround that veil in Order of the Phoenix, I was trying to show that depending on their degree of skepticism or belief about what lay beyond, Luna believes firmly in an afterlife. She's very clear on that. And she feels them speaking or hears them speaking much more clearly than Harry does. This is the idea of faith. Harry thinks he can hear them. He's drawn on. But Harry's had a life that has been so imbued with death that he now has an uncharacteristically strong curiosity about the afterlife, especially for a boy of 15. Ron is just scared, as I think Ron would be. He just knows this is something he doesn't want to dabble with. Hermione, hyper rational Hermione can't hear anything, get away from the veil. So if you walk through the veil, you're dead. You're dead. What you find on the other side? Well, that's the question.

[Andrew]

And that is what the Ministry is studying, I presume. I also kind of thought maybe it's some sort of. They want to kind of maybe open up a portal between life and death. Yeah, because right now it's one way, but what if they could reverse it somehow?

[Eric]

Right. There's, there's a very real value to having that be studied. Having that be a thing that's studied. Yeah, man.

[Andrew]

A lot of power would come with that.

[Eric]

And you get like all the answers to exactly how the universe works.

[Micah]

The, the portal piece is interesting because I remember we have talked about this before on the show and there was this long standing theory that the veil is some kind of ancient relic or portal that the Ministry was actually built around. And I know that the veil is at least as old as the Ministry because it was there at the time that it was built, which was early 1700s. So I'm still inclined to believe that it was there before the Ministry was there. I don't think the Ministry like built it or brought it in. I just. That's my headcanon. I think it was there.

[Meg]

I agree with that. And I have an entire theory about this. In fact, I think that these sort of portals exist all over Earth and most of them are in Places like in the wilderness, in the middle of nowhere. In fact, most of them are probably in the ocean because that's like 75% of the planet.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah.

[Meg]

And so there's probably a portal like this somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle. And that's why things go missing there, because they just pass on through to another plane of existence. I think this one in London, though, just happens to be one that people found, because, you know, think about London. It was built there because it was a port city. And when you're building a new society, you want there to be waters that you can do, you know, fishing and trading with other cities. And so I think that, you know, over time, people in London started, you know, Muggles and wizards. Presumably, because this was a long, long time ago, they started realizing, like, when certain people go for walks, they don't come back. And so I think. And I think that these portals are invisible. And I think that at some point, humans were like, we need to mark this somehow so that people stop walking through it and going missing. So I think people put up these. These ancient stones and got this. This tattered cloth and hung it there. And then I think that as life continued and society progressed and the Statute of Secrecy was passed Sometime in the 1600s, Wizards were like, we're having a society here where we study things. Let's build a building around this thing so we can study it further. And then when the Statute of Secrecy was passed and it was time to, you know, build a ministry away from Muggle eyes, they were like, well, we've already got this magic building where we're studying this veil. Let's just expand upon that. And I think that the veil is much, much older than that. And I think it's much older than the ministry itself by, like, thousands of years. And the reason I think that is because it's underground. So I think that, like, a hundred thousand years ago, that was ground level. But then, you know, with tectonic plates shifting and continents changing and just. Just earth happening, land built up over that. And. But throughout the entire process, the wizards were like, well, this is our little death room where we study that. And I think at one point, wizards were like, you know, we could also use this as a place to execute people. And that's why there's, like, the amphitheater aspect to it is so that people could sit around and.

[Eric]

Yeah, he does.

[Meg]

People loved watching public executions back in the day. Yeah.

[Eric]

Visually burning this trial room.

[Andrew]

I do love the idea of it, of a great theory, Meg. I do love the Idea of it being the ministry being built around the veil, because then the veil kind of takes the form as, like, the root. The root of the Ministry of magic. And there's a lot that could probably be said there about this gateway to death being the root of the root of all things.

[Eric]

I think we do this naturally, whether we realize it or not is important. Buildings are built off of certain energy places, like high energy places or important places. Like Meg mentioned the port city. That's exactly right. I also just think that, you know, we may not know it, but there's ample examples of ancient cities particularly being either directly aligned with constellations at the time or something crazy where people feel there's energy and there's power. So it makes sense that the seat of power for the government, for the wizarding world in Britain would be in the same place as this, you know, very powerful ancient artifact object.

[Meg]

And there's something poignant about it being like, it started the Ministry, basically, and now no one, barely anyone, anyone at the Ministry knows that it's there even now at this point in time.

[Eric]

I like that.

[Andrew]

And this is why studying history can be really interesting. Because it's like, well, why was Chicago built there? Why was Las Vegas built there? And you hear about, oh, well, you know, Chicago's on the water and, you know, port. It was a port and all that. Like. Like that too. Like, a lot of cities get built on a long water where ships can come in, drop off goods, stuff like that. That's how cities grow into what they are today, hundreds of years later. We're talking about a port right now, with the veil coming and going, built around yet another portal in the. In the world.

[Eric]

Crazy. So we will spend more time in this next room next week or two weeks from now when we destroy it. But let's talk briefly about the hall of Prophecy, which is finally, they get in the right door. Harry notices some shining. He's like, this is it. This is it. There's lots of shelves. Any new takes on the hall of Prophecy, guys? What kind of do we think was the plan here is just to get Harry to go and take it off the shelf because no one else can?

[Micah]

It hit me a lot harder, I think, reading it than it did in previous times, because I really felt bad for Harry in this moment, because I think despite the fact that he's able to retrieve the prophecy, I think he also, before that, has a period of recognition and almost reckoning with himself where he realized that he's been hoodwinked. He realizes that Sirius is not here. And that everything that Hermione was telling him prior to them departing Hogwarts was true.

[Andrew]

And I think one reason it hit me harder this time is because just with more lived experience, like, I. I'm not sure I can say I've been hoodwinked before, and certainly not in this type of way, but you experience those moments in your life where your stomach just drops. You feel the floor come out from under you. That's the feeling that Harry's experiencing here. And when we read this as adults, we can really relate to that moment. We know what he's feeling.

[Eric]

Yeah, he runs around the shelf a couple more times, you know, looking behind it, looking. And when Ron is trying to point out that there is a clue or something Harry's first inclination is no, shut up, Ron. Because he's sure that Ron's going to point out how duped and stupid Harry was. So I think Harry, it finally sinks in that what he saw was not the truth. But then there's some hope. So that's kind of neat.

[Andrew]

One thing I did want to mention is that when they find the prophecy with Harry's name on it before grabbing it, Neville is the one who tells Harry to not pick up the prophecy with his name on it. And the prophecy, as we know, also could have been about Neville. So I'm wondering if this line being delivered from Neville is a wink about that.

[Eric]

Probably. And the prophecy is even labeled with a question mark, I think. Right. It's not said I was expecting in this chapter to see it but maybe it's in a later chapter where it says like the part that says Harry Potter is actually hand drawn. Or am I making this up where it's like the question mark was the engraving spidery writing? Yeah. Okay. Because, yeah, it could have been either of them. I like that Neville's involved in trying to caution Harry. That's.

[Andrew]

Don't pick it up, Harry, because it's mine to pick up. We're scratching off your name and I'm writing mine. I put that memory in your head about Sirius. It was me.

[Meg]

Oh, plot twist.

[Andrew]

You. Not me. Not Hermione Neville.

[Eric]

Yes, yes. There's no good and evil. There's only prophecies and those too weak to seek them. Yeah. So it's an interesting kind of hoodwinking, perplexing situation and we'll have to tune in to see how the kids get out of it, but we do hear the voice of Lucius Malfoy. Finally, something is about to happen. After all of this mystery, after all of these empty rows and nobody's where they should be. We do finally, at the very least, hear a familiar unfriendly voice.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Meg]

What was Lucius doing? Was he just, like, staying out of.

[Eric]

Sight, making no noise, pretending?

[Meg]

I didn't mean, like, okay.

[Eric]

No. Really? Yeah, it's. It's like that scene in Labyrinth with all the goblins in the closet. Because they need. They needed. Here's how it doesn't work, because it was all up to chance. They needed Harry to go to row 97. That was planted. But then they need somebody to look close enough at one of, like, I don't know if it's at eye level. They need somebody to look at the specific prophecy that says AP WBD to SPT regarding blank Harry Potter. They need somebody to notice that and then go, hey, Harry, there's a thing. And then him to take it, realize he has to touch it and pull it off the shelf. How unlikely is that? I don't know. He does it in about five seconds.

[Meg]

So was there a backup plan in case they were like, oh, Sirius isn't here. Okay, guys, let's go back to Hogwarts. And, like, didn't see it.

[Micah]

I feel like Lucius could have coerced them. Right.

[Andrew]

He just hears, pick up on aisle 97.

[Eric]

And Harry, from his many years in retail, knows what that means. It's time to look around.

[Andrew]

Prophecy pickup on aisle 97. I thought we could do, for the MVP segment of the week, the most interesting room at the Department of Mysteries. For me, it is the death room. Meg loved your theory. I loved our discussion about it. There's just so much that could be considered when it comes to that room. What is the Ministry doing with the veil? How did it get there? Was the Ministry built around it? Why is it so easy to pass through that veil? Like, I have so many questions for this room more than any other room, I think.

[Meg]

I mean, I think all these rooms have to do with mysteries and in life, in reality. But I do think that you know more than love, more than brains, more than time. Death is the ultimate mystery. It's the biggest mystery of all.

[Eric]

I actually put mine's sort of a cop out. But also I'm interested because they're in a hurry. We don't go to all the rooms. So my most interesting room is the rooms that we don't see because we don't know what we don't know. And I'm assuming there are a few other mysteries that are kept hidden away. Mm.

[Micah]

Well, much like Ginny, I was Intrigued by the time Room and would love to have spent a little bit more time there. No pun intended. I know we will get some more of it in the upcoming chapters during the battle, but just with everything that happened in Prisoner of Azkaban. We know that the Ministry has or had supposedly Time Turners that they destroyed, but what else are they studying there as it relates to time?

[Meg]

And I said the love room. Now if it's just people doing love potion shots, I'm not that interested in that. But if it is the idea of like studying.

[Micah]

What about if there's karaoke theory?

[Meg]

Yeah, if there's karaoke, that's. That's a different. I will.

[Eric]

We could sing Love Shack.

[Meg]

We will do Love Shack. We will do that. Love Shack. Oh, that's got to be what happens in there. But just the overall idea of like what is it? Why is it? Why did it evolve?

[Andrew]

Why? Why love?

[Eric]

How love?

[Meg]

Why love?

[Eric]

How love?

[Meg]

When love.

[Andrew]

When love. So the five things I ask myself every morning.

[Eric]

Well, that I believe concludes our chapter discussion. Now let's go over to the links line where Mugglecast listeners who are members of our community at patreon.com mugglecast have answered this week's question which actually is open ended. What other rooms should be represented at the Ministry of Magic Department of Mysteries? So this follows up on my cop out answer of what rooms do you actually think that would be there?

[Andrew]

B said a room that studies the origins of magic itself in its rawest form. It could contain artifacts and such from throughout history. My public health minded wife would also like to add a room that studies the socioeconomical impact of magic on Muggle communities. We are road tripping across Washington state and have been discussing our answers to this question for far too long.

[Eric]

I love that. That's really cool. Bee. Next one comes from Robert. There should be a quote Fudge is special room where the walls are lined with portraits of all of Fudge's supposed enemies who can shower him with praise and tell him what a good job he's doing and also how handsome and smart he is. There's also two punching bags shaped like Harry Potter and Albus Dumbledore and a mirror for Fudge to look into and tell himself that everything's okay and he's actually doing a good job.

[Micah]

Isn't this just his office?

[Eric]

Probably, Probably. But I love the idea that it's that he requisitions the Unspeakables to build a room strictly so he can feel better about his life.

[Meg]

He really wants to have one room on every floor of the ministry. Yeah, specifically for that purpose.

[Micah]

Michael says Muggle Science department where they study how and why different non magical phenomena work but obviously completely fail trying to understand gravity, thinking chemical reactions must be magic. Researching evolution could be some examples.

[Meg]

Shyam, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Says there should be a snack, tea and coffee room with comfy chairs, unspeakables, work an extremely stressful job and need a room where they don't need to study anything and can just take a breather.

[Andrew]

Yes they do. Nicole said a rubber duck room. We need answers.

[Eric]

And Jill says I think there should be an Innocence Room to study the concept of what kind of magic and wisdom we all have when we are innocent and young. Often children are even more intuitive than we give credit for. They know things unexplainably and sometimes remember past lives, or can speak or pass messages from people who are passed on as if by magic. A room to study the concept of innocence and wisdom and how they go hand in hand would be fascinating from a magical perspective. Of course, with no real children in the room. Not suggesting that. More like Love Room, which is more about harnessing the conceptual force of love.

[Andrew]

We got a few more answers as well. Patrons, you can read those I love the creativity as always. If you want to participate in the links line, you can become a [e-mail] mogocast and don't forget right now we're running a 20th anniversary special now through the end of August, you can get 20% off an annual membership to our Patreon. Just use code 20 years at checkout. And by supporting us there, you'll be helping us fly into the next 20 years of Mugglecast. So thank you so much for your help there. Speaking of the 20th, next week on the Pod, we will celebrate 20 years of the show and then we'll get back to chapter by chapter two weeks from now. If you're looking for other ways to support us, you can visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy official gear. And by the way, patrons have access to a 20th anniversary discount code through the month of August. So much 20th anniversary excitement happening right now. Other ways to support us? You can leave us a review in your favorite podcast app and tell a fellow Muggle about the show. Lastly, visit mugglecast.com for quick access to all of this information, our contact form, and a lot more. If you're looking for more podcasting from the four of us, you can listen to our other shows Millennial. And what the hype for more pop culture and real world talk. And now it's time for our Harry Potter trivia game show, Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week's question was psychologically. Human beings respond to threats in one of four ways, all starting with the letter F. Two of them are fight and flight. What are the other two? Want to thank everybody for all of your F words. Really appreciated that. And this week's correct answer. In addition to fight and Flight, freeze and fawn are the most common answers. A fifth F word does exist sometimes using it's called flop where you just kind of pass out. But freeze and Fawn are the four Fs that was in fight and flight. 64% of folks with the correct answer say they did not look it up. Correct answers were submitted by. Oh boy, here we go. A healthy breeze. Big time freezer D7. Hufflepuff debortment of mysteries. I love Bort. Defense against Dumbledore's Army. Dumbledore, the pathological manipulator. Elizabeth K. Emotional range of a teaspoon. Fantastic. Fearless forager of forgotten fungi. First time answering. So excited. I know one of these Fitzpat suffices. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome to Quizzes. Fluffy's three heads. Hufflepuffle. Kitty Fluffle. I thought it was a doe, not a fawn. I am a social worker and my education has prepared me for this moment. Julianne Fay must be a Weasley. 92. My parents used to pronounce forenze as fire knees and now I can't unsee it. That's hilarious. Risendors must not tell lies. Slytherin's squib tickled by a disco ball. Yes. Another Weasley and Tofu Tom. Wow.

[Meg]

That's what's happening in the love room. People are being tickled by disco balls.

[Eric]

And so here is next week's quizzage question. When entering the Department of Mysteries, Harry and friends first encounter a room with many unmarked doors. Similarly, the Winchester Mystery House In San Jose, California, USA has over 2000 doors in its mansion which contains 160 rooms. How many windows are present in the Winchester Mystery House? This is a multiple choice quizzage question. Is the answer A 2001, B10000, C665 or D4000? How many windows are present in the house that has 160 rooms and 2,000 doors in San Jose, California, USA? Submit your answers to us on the Quizzitch form located on the Mugglecast website mugglecast.comquizzitch or if you're on the website, maybe checking out those lovely transcripts that Meg does, click on Kwizzitch from the main nav.

[Andrew]

Thanks Meg, for joining us. And at the last minute too. We really appreciate your help on today's episode and all your insights.

[Meg]

Oh, no problem. It's a great chapter. A real mysterious one.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Oh, I see what you did there. You said the word. Listeners. Don't Forget to visit patreon.com mugglecast and become a member to support us. Please also leave a review in your favorite podcast app and tell a friend about the show. Thanks everyone for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Meg]

And I'm Meg.

[Andrew]

Bye everyone.

[Eric]

By.

[Meg]

Sam.