← MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast
MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast
Prince It 'Til You Ace It (HBP Chapter 18, Birthday Surprises)
01:02:26
Loading summary
Transcript241 lines
- [00:00]
Commercial Announcer
Zootopia 2 is coming home to Disney. Let's go get ready for a new case.
- [00:05]
Eric
We're the greatest partners of all time. New friends Gary the Snake and your last name the snake Dream team and new habitat Zootopia has a secret reptile population.
- [00:14]
Commercial Announcer
You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. Disney Zootopia 2 streaming March 11th on Disney. Rated PG. And right now you can get Disney and hulu for just $4.99 a month for three months with a special limited time offer. Ends March 24. After three months, Plan Auto renews at $12.99 a month term supply.
- [00:30]
Laura
I think offering these K like strategies to approach the 3Ds with would be helpful here. But instead he's just like, oh, I mean, Susan's leg fell off because she wasn't determined enough.
- [00:47]
Andrew
Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.
- [00:51]
Eric
I'm Eric.
- [00:52]
Micah
I'm Micah.
- [00:53]
Andrew
And I'm Laura and we're your Harry Potter friends. Here to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So make sure you press that follow button in your podcast app and you'll never miss an episode. And this week, brush up on all of Gull Paulette's Laws because we're discussing chapter 18 of Half Blood Prince birthday surprises. Before we get to chapter by chapter though, couple of news items. Micah, what did you catch this week?
- [01:21]
Micah
Yeah, so I know, Andrew, you and I did an episode, a mini episode a couple months back talking about how Netflix was set to acquire WarnerMedia. Just kidding. In 2026. The tables have turned a little bit and at least for right now, it appears that Paramount will be acquiring WarnerMedia instead of Netflix. They tried to get Netflix to up the amount that they were willing to pay and Netflix declined. Paramount stepped in and so who knows where we might be six months from now. But at least for the time being, this is the big news and we'll see what it holds for the Harry Potter series.
- [02:03]
Andrew
So the big question is, where are you going to watch the Harry Potter series next year on Paramount plus on hbo? All of the above. We'll just have to wait and see. Well, speaking of the TV show, the show today, the day we're recording, did announce a couple dozen young actors who will be playing various specific Hogwarts students. And we'll look at these castings in our next TV show focused episode of Mugglecast in a couple of weeks. I mainly want to see if any of these characters were in the book, but not in the movie. And maybe from there we can get some clues about the plot lines that the show might include that we didn't
- [02:42]
Eric
get in the films.
- [02:43]
Andrew
So we'll see.
- [02:45]
Eric
Like that.
- [02:46]
Andrew
So that's what's happening in the news. If you love Mugglecast as much as Slughorn loves Harry's cheek, we invite you to Support us@patreon.com mugglecast and we'll hook you up with bonus episodes of the show, ad free episodes, live streams, a monthly zoom hangout, and lots more coming up in bonus Mugglecast later this week. Since this book is very focused on Horcruxes, we're learning about Horcruxes. I want to know, if each of us were to make our own Horcruxes, what items would we turn into Horcruxes? And I want the panel to think, you know, what, what items mean so much to you that, like Voldemort, you would want to turn these things into Horcruxes.
- [03:29]
Eric
So.
- [03:29]
Andrew
And don't worry, everybody, I'm not going to ask you who you're going to kill in order to create these Horcruxes.
- [03:35]
Laura
Well, thank you for not asking us to incriminate ourselves.
- [03:39]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not on air anyway. After the show, the after, after show, I'm going to be asking who you're killing. There are other great ways to support us, to help us run Mugglecast. You can leave a review in your favorite podcast app, you can tell a fellow Muggle about show, and you can visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy shirts and hats and glassware and lots more. All right, so now it's time for chapter by chapter. This week we're discussing Half blood prince, chapter 18, birthday surprises.
- [04:09]
Eric
Yeah, we last talked about it on episode 407, way back on March 4th of 2019. Guess what, guys? That title was G O A T Go. What you're looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected. It is from Mugglekast episode 407.
- [04:34]
Micah
And I think one of the other things that's kind of underscored through this chapter when we're talking about the Horcruxes or we're talking about the potion making, is the fact that when the three of them aren't working together, it makes things a lot more challenging and a lot more difficult because they all bring something to the table. And I think it's challenging particularly for Harry to have to constantly be sharing information in two different situations. Right. He can't tell Ron and Hermione together about what Dumbledore has tasked him with. Can't tell both of them together about the Horcruxes. They can't work on a solution together. When they're together, they're at their best
- [05:13]
Andrew
need to get the band back together. This is so sad. I can't take it anymore.
- [05:21]
Laura
This memory is everything.
- [05:22]
Andrew
It's true power in numbers.
- [05:23]
Eric
They don't call it the Golden Trio for nothing.
- [05:25]
Micah
It's a very thoughtful insight.
- [05:27]
Eric
Yeah, I was touched.
- [05:29]
Micah
Yeah, I mean, well. What, by you?
- [05:32]
Andrew
No, no, no, just confirming you're complimenting yourself.
- [05:36]
Micah
Yeah, I'm complimenting myself.
- [05:37]
Andrew
Be clear.
- [05:38]
Eric
Okay, well, I know we're going to get into discussion about Harry and Hermione. We've actually done a pretty good job I think so far on recent chapter by chapters, talking about sort of the various charact character struggles that we've had. So during reading for, you know, kind of planning for this week's episode discussion, I kind of came at it a little off the wall. And we'll pray you guys humor me here, but I noticed something. And Harry in Potions class during this chapter finally finds himself, much to Hermione's glee, at a complete loss. He's out of his depth. And I know we will start there.
- [06:29]
Andrew
Yeah, well, I mean, it is refreshing to see Harry struggling, at least for a little while after so much success with the Prince's book. He's built up a lot of confidence. He feels like he's kind of cracked the code. Um, he's at ease and it's kind of thrown, throwing him off his guard because now he's feeling stuck in Slughorn's class. And I think it's a good reminder for readers that even when you think you have everything figured out, there will be more bumps in the road ahead. And I like this little ego check for Harry. Do you agree, Laura?
- [07:03]
Laura
Yeah, I think anytime you're trying to take shortcuts to get through something difficult, eventually you're gonna be called to the mat to prove your knowledge, your capabilities and whatever area it is that you're faking it in. And I think the problem with that is that, you know, fake it till you make it falls flat on its face when there's no substance behind. Still works out for Harry ultimately in this scene. But I'm gonna have a question later about why that is. So, yeah, we'll get back to it as we get through the doc. But yeah, I mean this is, it is. I think Andrew, you put it perfectly. It's a great ego Check.
- [07:50]
Andrew
Fake it till you make it. Prince it till you ace it. That doesn't totally rhyme, but close enough.
- [07:55]
Eric
Ooh, Snapes it till you ace it. I'm trying to think here, but yeah, it's remarkable just how out of their depth everyone except Hermione is. In the Potions lesson, like it said that like, absolutely no one seems like they understand Gopalot's Law except for Hermione. And during the class she's like doing all this non verbal magic because she's mastered it so no one can copy her too. And it's just like, you know, there is something to be said for putting your head down and doing the work as Hermione and apparently nobody else has done. But question I had for you guys was, is gulp a lot a pun or something? Like we're talking about Potions.
- [08:39]
Andrew
I don't know what I'm doing.
- [08:40]
Eric
Yeah, like if it. Well, if you drink a potion, if you gulp it down. Gulp a lot.
- [08:44]
Laura
Yeah. Actually this, I thought this was a really clever catch. Eric, I think you're onto something.
- [08:51]
Eric
Okay.
- [08:52]
Laura
Because again, like, we know that a lot of names in this series are not accidental.
- [08:58]
Eric
Yeah. Another way of saying that is like all of them are intentional. It's like Gopalot is pretty straightforward for like. Okay, yeah, that's, that's what occurred to me. But that's not all here, if you guys would like to read this quote I've selected from Slughorn. He talks about. If you take Gopalat's Law to be
- [09:16]
Andrew
true, our primary aim is not the relatively simple one of selecting antidotes to those ingredients in and of themselves, but to find that added component that will, by an almost alchemical process, transform these disparate elements.
- [09:32]
Eric
Alchemical, you say? Dear Professor, I want to, in just a moment take us down a road of that inspired by that word alone. Because I think it's. We're in a very high level Potions class and this is the first time, I think in context we get any sense of what alchemy might look like in practice in the books though it's been mentioned sparingly before. But before I do that, I know Micah, you have a good note about sort of what function this serves within the chapter.
- [10:11]
Micah
Yeah, I mean, I love that we're going to dive in and talk a little bit more about alchemy, but I think the main reason that this lesson is introduced is so that Harry can ultimately cut corners with Abizoir, which we know is going to play a much larger role at the end of this chapter. And speaking of Abizoir, we get another hint that Snape is or could be the Half Blood Prince, because it was him. Even though Harry can't fully recall the exact moment he does reference it, that, you know, it was Snape who taught him about this back in Sorcerer's Stone. I can't quite put his finger on it, but we as readers certainly can.
- [10:57]
Andrew
Well, Snape is so stupid and dumb and mean, there's no way that this book could be his.
- [11:02]
Eric
Yeah, we're beefing with him. He couldn't help us.
- [11:06]
Micah
Yeah. And one process, or I guess one comparison that came to mind while this whole scene was playing itself out is. Does relate to Horcruxes. So just as you have to isolate and understand each component to identify the correct antidote to this poison, and this poison is basically like super poison. It's. It's a combination of different poisons all thrown together. You can't defeat Voldemort outright. His power right now is tied to his Horcruxes. And only by destroying each individual fragment can he ultimately be overcome. So I'd like to think that this was there for a reason, not just so that we get the introduction of the Bezoar, especially following the last chapter.
- [11:55]
Andrew
Right.
- [11:56]
Micah
We ended the last chapter hearing the word Horcrux for the first time.
- [12:00]
Andrew
Right.
- [12:01]
Eric
You know, and Harry pursues kind of the Horcrux angle a little bit in this chapter, though he's rebuffed by Slughorn and the plot. I like it because, again, this is such advanced potioning. And even Hermione doesn't actually succeed in making the right antidote. She has something like 10 different vials of potion and she's trying to cram more in after the clock runs out, which is not a good look for her, but whatever, you know. So it's wild to think of it and compare it to Voldemort's quest for immortality and. And how there's always that little extra something, as Slughorn says, when it comes to defeating Voldemort, it's greater than the sum of its individual parts, if you will.
- [12:45]
Laura
Yeah. What I love about this point you make, Micah, is it also speaks to the headspace that Harry has to be in in order to successfully hunt down the Horcruxes and destroy them all. And clearly he's not in the mindset yet because he goes for the easy way out in this lesson. But we also see, you know, Ron and Hermione need to eventually get in this mindset as well, so they can all go camping next year and hunt down the Horcruxes. And as. As Eric pointed out, even Hermione's not successful at this point. So, yeah, I love. I love that little bit of analysis and how you can apply it to the overall arc of the story. It's cool.
- [13:29]
Eric
Yeah. So digging back into this word alchemy, I'm reminded of the first time that we encounter it way back in Philosopher's Stone, which is the big alchemical thing. Who wants to read the chocolate frog entry?
- [13:45]
Andrew
Do you have it here?
- [13:46]
Eric
Oh, it should be. Isn't it? Oh, crap, did I hear it?
- [13:49]
Andrew
It's here. It's here.
- [13:50]
Eric
I was like, you don't know it by heart, you guys.
- [13:53]
Andrew
I know, right? It says Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark Wizard Grindelwald in 1990, 1945 for the discovery of the 12 uses of Dragon's blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicholas Flamel.
- [14:10]
Eric
So the whole first book, Philosopher's Stone, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, has to do with this quest for immortality, and not just Voldemort's, but the actual success by this old alchemist named Nick Flamel, who basically is, like, on league with Dumbledore, which shows you how powerful he is. But more than that, he's 600 years or 500 years Dumbledore's senior. And so it's interesting that following the destruction of the Philosopher's Stone, which was canonized into Harry Potter as a significant branch of magic that, you know, Dumbledore himself studies. And it can make you live for 600 years, if not live forever, but we never really hear about it again in the books. And so I was kind of just. I honestly forgot about it until coming across that quote from Slughorn and thinking, oh, so maybe alchemy is closest to or resembles most closely the level of intensity of having to concoct these antidotes. And so it kind of just led me down this rabbit hole of thought of, like, why don't we ever learn more about alchemy? And can anybody even learn it at Hogwarts? Because it only is a mention.
- [15:28]
Andrew
It's an extra fee.
- [15:30]
Laura
Like, oh, like apparition.
- [15:33]
Andrew
Apparition. Yeah.
- [15:35]
Laura
To that point, Eric Brock in Our Discord is saying, I think you can see potions as 101 and alchemy as PhD level of the same field.
- [15:45]
Eric
Oh, my gosh, I love that. I like that because I think of it as more of, like, chemistry kind of, but also with Potioning especially Because the method that Slughorn mentions of, like transforming the potion seems to be. I mean, he refers to it as alchemy. So I'm really curious. But the other thing that came up is that since the last time on Mugglecast where we would have been able to talk about alchemy was like, way back when Nick Flamel was in the Fantastic Beasts movies nine years ago. I was reminded that, Micah, you have since read a particular book series called the Secrets of the Immortal Nicolas Flamel, which was recommended by one of our patrons, I believe. And can you speak to sort of that book and sort of what happens and what do they give any better insight into what alchemy might look like in practice?
- [16:38]
Micah
Yeah, I thought you were going to say that I've become an alchemist since the last.
- [16:41]
Eric
Well, I mean, I wasn't gonna spoil the fact that you are now immortal.
- [16:45]
Micah
Oh. So I think probably the biggest difference is that in the Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel, that alchemy is the core magic system. So magic, in essence is presented as advanced alchemy. In Potter, we know that magic is really presented as spell based. And as you were just talking about alchemy and is more background lore, it's not something that we spend a lot of time with. And many of the characters in the series can manipulate the natural elements, so things like earth, air, fire and water to create really powerful effects and more. So they can channel their aura or their life energy to perform alchemical feats so they can heal, they can create illusions, they can control elements, or they can even enhance their physical strength. And there's two kind of main core characters in addition to Nicholas and Perenelle Flamel, Sophie and Josh. They're these young kids. And throughout the series they're gradually unlocking their magical potential through alchemical training and ultimately looking to awaken these auras that I was talking about earlier. And the Philosopher's Stone is still sort of the most important alchemical object. Just like in Sorcerer's Stone, it allows Nicolas Flamel and his wife to remain immortal because it produces the Elixir of Life. But what happens in this series is the Codex. This is a 10,000 year old book that contains the secrets of alchemy and the formula for creating the Elixir of Life. It's stolen. And what happens is that the Flamels no longer have access to it. So they begin to age very rapidly. And so there's this urgency to have to recover the Codex. And so what happens is basically the series is a race against time to recover the Codex and save the Flamels.
- [18:46]
Eric
That sounds cool. Yeah.
- [18:48]
Andrew
So we declaring all this canon for Harry Potter, then? Since the Harry Potter books don't. Okay.
- [18:54]
Laura
Canon.
- [18:57]
Micah
Why not? And what I love about the series in particular, and I think a lot of the people listening would, as well as the rest of this panel here, is that the author, Michael Scott. Not that Michael Scott, the other Michael Scott.
- [19:12]
Andrew
He would not be that smart to write this.
- [19:14]
Laura
Yeah, this author did not, like, verbally declare bankruptcy, I'm guessing.
- [19:20]
Andrew
Oh, wait, we have one of those sound effects, too.
- [19:22]
Eric
No, God, No. God. Please, no. No.
- [19:27]
Andrew
Michael Scott, didn't you write this book? Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Michael.
- [19:33]
Laura
It.
- [19:33]
Micah
It really does this amazing job of, like, interweaving historical figures and mythological creatures and fictional heroes, and you never know when they're gonna pop up or who they're ultimately gonna be allied with. So it's. It's. It's a fun. They're very easy reads.
- [19:52]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [19:53]
Micah
I forget how many books exactly are in the series, but it's something I feel like listeners of the show would thoroughly enjoy and I definitely recommend it. Eric, as you touched on it, was recommended to me by, I think, in a Slug Club hangout, it came up.
- [20:10]
Andrew
There are six of these books in the series.
- [20:12]
Micah
There we go.
- [20:13]
Eric
Yeah, no, it definitely feels like sharing life energies and transmuting substances. It feels like the perfect marriage in Harry Potter between potions and transfiguration, basically. So, you know, we don't know that there's, like, a college for wizards, but that would clearly be, like, where you would have to go to learn the thing. But when I got this connection to Dumbledore, because Dumbledore is all over this chapter, even though he's not mentioned in it, we have Dumbledore pressuring Harry to extract this memory, this sort of untarnished memory from Professor Slughorn. But if Potions is just Alchemy Jr. And this book is all about Snape, who's, like, the Haplet Prince whose book Harry heavily relies on for his innate Potions knowledge. I gotta ask, is Dumbledore actually, like, a super Potioner?
- [21:08]
Laura
Basically, because I guess he's good at everything, right? Like, I feel like at every turn in the series, he's just. It's like, oh, okay, yeah, he does Alchemy and, like, oh, yeah, he can be places and not be seen and so on and so forth. He knows everything.
- [21:24]
Eric
He's so. Op. My gosh.
- [21:25]
Laura
Yeah.
- [21:26]
Eric
But, yeah, I mean, if you even think back to that same chocolate frog card that we read earlier you know, Dumbledore discovered and was the first wizard to do so, the 12 uses of Dragon's blood. That to me does sound also like straight up alchemical. Talking about stuff like the uses and what you would use the blood for. And it sounds potiony too.
- [21:50]
Laura
Totally. Yeah, we don't. I don't think we ever explicitly get all 12 uses laid out, but I know dragon blood is a key ingredient in the Wolfsbane Potion. I believe it can also be used as an oven cleaner.
- [22:07]
Andrew
Yeah, I've used it for that once or twice.
- [22:09]
Eric
Oh yeah, yeah.
- [22:11]
Laura
So multifaceted.
- [22:13]
Eric
Now I'm trying to think. Doesn't Slughorn use it at the beginning to pretend he's been grievously injured?
- [22:19]
Micah
Oh, that's one of the uses too.
- [22:24]
Laura
Crime scene, I'm pretty sure.
- [22:26]
Eric
See that's the funny thing is I'm not sure it's a unique use of dragon's blood. You could use any blood as a decoy. But you know, I'm going to give Dumbledore his credit here. But yeah, it's. It's kind of wild to me that.
- [22:36]
Micah
What does it say though? That doesn't. Maybe it's a movie ism, but doesn't Dumbledore taste it?
- [22:42]
Laura
Yeah, I think that is a movieism.
- [22:44]
Micah
I was gonna say, how do you know what it tastes like?
- [22:46]
Eric
It's clearly something he's very familiar with. If you're trying to find out new uses for it, maybe one of the uses is as a frozen ice cream pop for vampires.
- [22:56]
Andrew
An ice cream topping.
- [22:58]
Eric
Knowing Dumbledore's love of sweets, that sounds pretty aligned. But there was actually another deep kind of magic that we hear about in this chapter in Apparition. And before we get to talking about that, let's hear a word from our sponsors.
- [23:18]
Commercial Announcer
Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the OG it kicked off this whole Zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy Punch. So if you've been living in the white can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.
- [23:50]
Eric
Welcome back. Okay, so we get on to our apparition lesson and it's our first proper lesson. We meet Wilkie Twycross, who is delightfully described as a guy who's like, kind of barely there. I laugh every single time I read this chapter for that. But what's interesting about this lesson is Similar to the Potions lesson where it's over pretty much everyone but Hermione's head. The so called 3ds are not really grasped by anybody either. And over a course of weeks nobody has managed to manage the. Nobody has managed to accomplish what seems like it only has three easy steps. Yeah, what do we make of that?
- [24:39]
Laura
This lesson is so frustrating to read because there's no actual teaching that happens here. This guy is literally like, just focus, y', all, just focus on it really hard.
- [24:53]
Andrew
It's easy.
- [24:53]
Laura
And it like, how are you? How do you expect these teenagers to figure this out? Especially when we know that there are grown wizards who can't necessarily apparate, like there's a skill set to it. And while I understand that it's probably nebulous and there's no quick like, you know, bullet list of exact steps you need to follow to make it work, I think offering these kids some like real world strategies to approach the 3Ds with would be helpful here. But instead he's just like, oh, I mean, Susan's leg fell off because she wasn't determined enough.
- [25:36]
Eric
Yeah, let that be a lesson to you all. Gotta get more determined, right?
- [25:40]
Laura
Yeah.
- [25:41]
Andrew
These are vague instructions and we remember too that this is a paid add on at Hogwarts. So you would think if you're paying. Thanks for your teaching. Yeah.
- [25:54]
Eric
Oh, oh, they've all been ripped off.
- [25:56]
Andrew
And you would also think the ministry would be treating these lessons a little more seriously because they don't want kids losing limbs. Yeah, they can fix this. But I don't know, they do seem to be very relaxed about teaching such a pretty serious consequential form of magic.
- [26:16]
Eric
And maybe it's one of those things where you either get it or you don't. But here's the thing. I think that maybe Wookie Twycross was at one point a good teacher and he like eventually, over time, he's the kind of guy you could see like his lesson plan over time devolved into a catchphrase. Right. Like, so maybe 20 years ago he was spending more time with individual students and he had more to say in the matter. But whether through age, senility or like the fact that he's been apparating so often that parts of him are getting stuck being left behind. Like maybe he really doesn't have it anymore. What it takes to really show the
- [26:57]
Micah
kids how to do it reminds me of the person who scores you on your driver's ed test who just looks like they don't Want to be there anymore. They've been there for 50 years and they've seen so many people not be able to parallel park or properly execute a turn. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, I also think there's probably a certain level of pressure on all of these students being in the same room together and trying to concentrate with so many of their peers around them. You'd think that maybe, at least initially, they would separate the groups and maybe take them to different places within Hogwarts. Although I know that they're lifting the apparition ban within the Great hall specifically, but I'm sure that they could do that in other places.
- [27:45]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:46]
Laura
It is pretty chaotic. And I feel like too, trying to teach them a skill like this and having such a narrow target seems like it would be more difficult. Like.
- [27:59]
Eric
Yeah, it's like a.
- [28:01]
Laura
It's effectively a glorified hula hoop they have laying on the floor in front of each of these kids. It just seems like it would be easier to master this if you had like a larger radius that you can targeting. Yeah, exactly.
- [28:17]
Eric
Like try and get to the top of the hill. And it's not. I'm gonna try and get. Maybe they did it because you have to make like you have to visualize the destination. So maybe it's just like easiest if you can see all of it already. So it's like just in front of you.
- [28:30]
Andrew
Yeah. I was going to say something somewhat similar. Because they are so close to this glorified hula hoop. Maybe it is in theory easier to apparate into something so close by. Thus it can be a small target for you, whereas the further away it is, the harder it is to actually narrow down where you're actually going.
- [28:53]
Eric
So they're doing everyone a favor. I love these theories about apparition too. Like, that maybe Wilkie is the ideal build for this because there's not much to him. She's like very thin. And it's like we hear that Charlie failed the first time he tried because he was like, bigger.
- [29:09]
Andrew
But also. Yes, Laura, Hogwarts is chaotic. I mean, this is just par for the course at this school.
- [29:14]
Laura
Yeah.
- [29:15]
Eric
You know what's funny is the last time we were discussing this chapter, we were just getting in the vogue of talking about how much of a nightmare in many ways Hogwarts was, which led to the clip, which is really, really sweet. But yeah, the thing that I want to focus on too, before we move on is this idea that you can feel your way into nothingness. Here's the quote, I wish
- [29:41]
Andrew
I want to disassociate.
- [29:44]
Eric
Well, say more. Say more. Yeah, no, no, no.
- [29:47]
Andrew
I just. This reminds me of just like wanting to shut your brain off and disassoci thing.
- [29:53]
Laura
It was.
- [29:53]
Eric
You think like, you think you could apparate into like non being, though, because that. That actually, you know what? That kind of does sound peaceful.
- [30:01]
Andrew
That would be pretty cool.
- [30:02]
Laura
Maybe like give these kids like a smartphone and let them doom scroll always does it for me.
- [30:11]
Micah
Yeah, so, yeah, no, there are certain elements of this that remind me of meditation.
- [30:19]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:21]
Micah
So, Andrew, when you were talking about disassociating just before, like, parts of these or like some of these steps do have meditative elements to them.
- [30:33]
Eric
Yeah, absolutely.
- [30:33]
Andrew
Determination, right, I think is.
- [30:36]
Eric
Yeah, yeah. Apparition seems to all be about will and willpower. And the fewer distractions that you have. So empty your mind, get ready to meditate, the more likely you are to be successful. So Wilkie's steps, you know, destination. Fix your mind firmly upon the desired destination. We understand that. Step two, focus your determination to occupy the visualized space. Let your yearning to enter it flood from your mind to every particle of your body. Interesting use of the word particle, by the way. Sounds like he's talking about science and physics. And step three, turn on the spot. Feeling your way into nothingness. Moving with deliberation.
- [31:20]
Andrew
This is like rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time. I feel like, turn on the spot. Feel your way into nothingness, while also yearning for that determination to flood from your mind to every particle of your body. There really is a lot you have to juggle.
- [31:39]
Eric
Yeah, that, you know, that reminds me. There's probably like a comparison to be drawn of, like, you suck at teaching something after you've already learned to do it and have done it, done it successfully for like 40 years. You know, it's like, oh, you don't really think about how to swim. That's why you take your kid to swimming lessons. When a professional who's like, learned at teaching people who don't know how to swim to swim, otherwise you just kind of swim, right?
- [32:02]
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:04]
Eric
But, yeah, again, feeling your way into nothingness, feeling it with every particle of your body really reminds me of the most advanced magic that we have seen in Harry Potter, the Patronus, for one. The summoning charms in year four, all involved a tremendous amount of willpower and concentration. And to me, this idea of feel your way into nothingness, like, these students have never. It's their first day and then it's several weeks later and they still haven't done it because they haven't felt nothingness before. Feel your way into nothingness. Feel. How can I feel something that isn't there? It literally isn't the physical space, so it's intangible. You can't feel it. To me, this year, especially this year,
- [32:48]
Micah
they're all feeling each other.
- [32:51]
Eric
They're feeling so many tangible things this year that this comes at the worst time, really, for that. That's a great point. But to me, I feel like I'm reading, like, Plato's the Cave for the first time or something. And it's like your will. Human consciousness informs the world. And for a wizard who has magic, they need only be sufficiently determined and deliberate in order to literally break all of the laws of nature down to transport themselves. And it all comes back to this idea of, like, willpower. So somebody like Dumbledore who can side along Apparate, somebody else that's never done it before, that must be two or three times more difficult than just regular operating. But we're reminded he has a superior brain.
- [33:41]
Andrew
Yeah, so, yeah, no, I like that a lot. I mean, but. And what you're sharing here, I think just speaks to how these kids probably aren't fully ready to learn apparition. And Micah mentioned, you know, that sounds like meditation. There should be probably some sort of meditating class that comes along with these lessons or, you know, we've seen Harry practice occlumency or fail to succeed. It's kind of similar in that you need to clear your head and focus.
- [34:11]
Eric
Yeah, we're being given kind of like the roadmap to more advanced type of magic. And the through line is all of this, like, meditative type stuff. To have superior willpower, superior brain power and a lack of distraction seems to be the key to success in all of these.
- [34:28]
Andrew
Even something like Floo powder, you have to speak clearly or else you're going to be going to the wrong place. You're right. These are all tied together. Focus is super important when it comes to magic in this wizarding world.
- [34:40]
Eric
I mean, it also just kind of reminds me of the Matrix, right? When Neo learns that it's all simulation and so he and Trinity and the others can all basically start bending the rules of it if you know, you know, and you can exercise it. So again, that makes it hard to teach.
- [34:58]
Laura
Yeah. It also just really makes me wish that in the core series we got more exposure to the building blocks of magic and more advanced forms of magic and how it all works. And I know we've had episodes talking about that, but it really feels like an opportunity for HBO or Paramount or whoever is going to own this stuff to look at a spinoff. Like, I'm thinking about, what is it that Dumbledore and Flamel were doing together for all those years that got Flamel labeled as Dumbledore's partner in the chocolate frog card? Like, there's an entire backstory there of research and academia and alchemy and all these things that we never get in the books. It's just mentioned that would be a cool prequel.
- [35:53]
Andrew
Yeah. And remember, we've seen these photos of Flamel and Dumbledore meeting with each other on a beach, so we might get bits and pieces of what you're describing. Doesn't seem like we're gonna go back in time, but their relationship is going to be expanded for the TV show, it seems like.
- [36:09]
Laura
For sure. I just think a spin off would be cool.
- [36:13]
Andrew
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I would not complain about any additional series.
- [36:17]
Eric
All right, well, thanks for joining me on this journey into more advanced magical topics. And we're back. Okay, guys, let's talk more about Hermione and how she's kind of very gloaty in this chapter and then she's kind of very upset with Harry.
- [36:43]
Micah
I can understand where she's coming from, but I also think she's being a bit of a tit in this chapter. Like, the way that she is gloating at Harry. Like, let Harry have his one year in a particular class of being the star pupil. Yeah, like, suck it up, buttercup.
- [37:08]
Laura
But there's no merit to it. Like, it'd be one thing if he was the star pupil, because he actually was, but it's all a lie.
- [37:17]
Andrew
My big thing is that Hermione's frustrated by Harry because Slughorn is all tickled by Harry's use of the Bezoar. But the reality is he didn't follow Slughorn's directions at all. He totally went a different direction. And Slughorn's like, oh, yeah, that actually could work. Good. Good job, Harry. Ten points to Gryffindor. I don't like that part.
- [37:39]
Laura
And so here's my question that I referred to at the top of the show. How would Slughorn have reacted if any other student pulled what Harry pulled here? Would he have been as impressed? Would he have been as tickled by the sheer cheek of somebody to do exactly what Harry did?
- [37:58]
Eric
I think immediate expulsion.
- [38:01]
Laura
I don't think so. But, like, I just. I think Harry's Getting preferential treatment.
- [38:06]
Andrew
I agree 100%.
- [38:07]
Micah
If it were somebody in the slug club, I think he would be okay with it. I don't know if he would have had as exuberant of a reaction as he did with Harry. Especially as he starts shouting Lily's name and associating him with his mom. Oh, you know, his mother's son, you know, and you know, he just goes on and on and on. But for me though, I mean it is important in this moment that Harry learns about the bizarre. Because if he doesn't, Ron is in a lot of trouble at the end of this chapter. Yeah.
- [38:41]
Laura
Yep.
- [38:42]
Micah
So it's actually really good for Hermione too. I know she's not on speaking terms with Ron in this moment, but she would be down a future husband if, if not for Harry being cheeky, you know, and during this particular lesson.
- [39:01]
Andrew
So yeah, yeah, it all works out.
- [39:04]
Micah
I think there's like the part that bothers me though is that she wants to be the teacher's pet, you know. Like I think that's part of the part.
- [39:11]
Eric
Just put in the work though, right?
- [39:13]
Micah
Like she's always the teacher's pet so
- [39:15]
Eric
she knows this stuff. Like I don't know. I think, I think Hermione's done a disservice in the writing or from Harry's perspective because you know, it's harkened on how, how she recites exactly the answer from the book and she recites it faster than you would believe, you know, and it's like makes her feel disingenuous except she really does get it. Like in, in this chapter she really
- [39:38]
Micah
does get it and she's using non verbal magic on top of it to ensure that nobody is cheating off of her.
- [39:44]
Eric
But like you can do it, you should. Right?
- [39:47]
Micah
100%. No, no, no, you. And I'm not like trying to discredit her here in any way. Like she works harder than anybody else in this chapter and still isn't able to, you know, complete the task. And Harry just uses a workaround here thanks to the Half Blood Prince.
- [40:05]
Eric
I'm starting to think that if Harry were my classmate I wouldn't like him. I mean, come on, he's the guy's always doing the bare minimum and getting praised for it. But I mean for me the telling part about Hermione in this chapter and why she's so, let's say extra, almost bordering on too much is that Harry again just wants. He's worried about how it affects him. He's sad that it affects like, that it's uncomfortable for him to have to tell Hermione about Horcruxes and then Ron about Horcruxes. But, like, at the end of the day, he goes up to Hermione and he literally says, couldn't you just. Da, da, da. And she says no, flat out. Because he's still asking her to be the one that comes down to Ron's level and forgives him and apologizes. And why does she have to do that emotional work? Why can't. Why is she the one that Harry's asking? Couldn't you just too. And so I'm with Hermione in this chapter.
- [41:03]
Laura
Yeah. Unfortunately, Harry's just recognizing that of the two of them, Hermione is the one who has, like, the emotional and sort of like, maturity capacity. Mature capacity to be able to do that. And he, like, I don't know that he would say this, but he recognizes that Ron is not it in this regard. Not yet.
- [41:29]
Eric
Yeah. I think he's asking her to be the bigger person and she interprets it as if he's asking her to, like, set. Compromise her morals or something.
- [41:37]
Laura
Yeah. Well, the thing is, Hermione's always the bigger person in this series.
- [41:43]
Eric
Wouldn't you get sick of it? Yeah.
- [41:45]
Micah
Yeah.
- [41:47]
Eric
So we know that Harry does ultimately fail to get the memory from Slughorn during the first part of this chapter. But what's interesting to me is even though he hasn't taken the Felix Felicis. We had that chapter name, Felix Felicis Felix. Actually, we see the little vial in this chapter when he's rummaging through his trunk, but Harry hasn't taken it. And yet he still gets this, like, sixth sense that, let's be honest, he's kind of almost always had when it comes to handling situations because he gets this sense of exactly what to do. Like the Beezer. He's like the book says, if it were anyone else's class, he wouldn't have dared. If it were Snape, he wouldn't have even tried it. But because it's Slughorn, he just had this sense. Harry just kind of felt like it would maybe be just enough to win the day. And he's right. And so Harry already has, like a Felix, like sense of, I don't know, serendipity.
- [42:46]
Andrew
And maybe Harry was sensing that Slughorn would go easy on him too. If. You know, just because he wasn't following the directions doesn't mean Slughorn was going to be mad at him or punish him.
- [42:57]
Micah
The way he approaches the questioning of Slughorn, though, is just way too forward. It reminds me of earlier on in the book when Hermione goes into Borgin and Burke just after Draco was there to find out what it was that he was inquiring about. And there's just no thought that goes into the questioning. And it's the same thing here with Harry. You know, he's outright asking Slughorn about Horcruxes. And when was even the last time Slughorn heard the word Horcrux? There's. There's definitely. There was. There wasn't. And I think maybe this goes back to the clip that you played at the start of the show. The fact that the three of them are not working together in this moment. Like, it hurts Harry in this particular time. Like, because he's just. He's just going for it and he doesn't put any kind of real thought behind it.
- [44:02]
Andrew
I can't remember when we were discussing what I'm about to share, but we were talking earlier in the book, I think, about Harry jumping straight to the point with things, maybe because he's feeling rushed, that there's no time to waste. That's kind of the impression that I'm getting here again. I mean, maybe Dumbledore should have said, hey, take your time with this. Play the long game, longish game. My hand's not getting any better. But play the longish game.
- [44:28]
Eric
We have all the time in the world, provided you get. You get one month.
- [44:32]
Andrew
Yeah. I guess this is also a good learning lesson for both Harry and the reader that some. Sometimes things like this take time. You can't just, like. It's not like a switch. You gotta. You gotta work somebody for a little while. But I also just think Harry knows very well at this point, especially after how well that lesson went for him, that Slughorn is forgiving towards Harry. And maybe he felt like Slughorn would do him another solid here.
- [44:57]
Laura
Yeah, honestly, I think it was a little bit of a Hail Mary. Cause Harry didn't really know what to do here. Dumbledore didn't exactly give him good instruction on how to approach this.
- [45:09]
Andrew
I'm testing him.
- [45:10]
Laura
Yeah. And so I think, you know, up until this point, Slughorn has been very permissive of Harry. And so I think he's just going out on a lark to see how easy he can make it for himself.
- [45:23]
Eric
Yeah, I mean, there's something to be said for, like, the blindsiding angle. I don't know who it would have worked on, but it seems reasonable enough. Somebody would be like, oh, ugh, but instead, Slughorn is repulsed because his primary feeling is guilt about the whole thing, which that takes a lot more to unpack. But speaking of Harry, actually, Andrew, something you said about Harry being just so quick to reveal himself reminds me of this scene in the Great hall during the apparition lesson when he sees that Crab and Malfoy are arguing and then immediately darts off and positions himself right behind them. And just when it's getting interesting and Draco is like, talking about Crab and Goyle as lookouts, Harry comes from right behind him and is like, you know, I tell my friends where I'm going at all times. Couldn't Harry have waited three more seconds, or let's say 30 more seconds just as a lark and gotten more information about what they were up to because they were arguing about it in public and Harry cut things short.
- [46:29]
Micah
Yeah, patience is a virtue.
- [46:33]
Andrew
I think that Harry is, yeah. Out of patience with Draco and just is out of Fs to give when it comes to Draco. So he can't resist the opportunity to prod him really quick when the opportunity strikes.
- [46:48]
Micah
So definitely puts a scare in him.
- [46:51]
Eric
Yeah. And there's other times when Harry's like, obtuse, but he doesn't at all realize why he's not seeing Malfoy on the map.
- [46:59]
Andrew
I feel like that should have been a red flag, not seeing Draco on the map. I think it's said in this book like, oh, there's so many black dots. How can I find Draco? It's like impossible. But he hasn't had this problem before, has he? So I think this, you know, this is something he maybe should have thought about more. Why is that name not appearing?
- [47:19]
Eric
Like maybe you could write to Lupin and be like, hey, having trouble trying to locate a particular somebody. It doesn't matter who. They're not on the map, but they're probably at Hogwarts. So can you explain, especially thinking back
- [47:34]
Micah
to Lupin's the map never lies line a when it. And again, that could have been a movie ism. But when they were talking about Peter Pettigrew. And I just think there's a lot that Harry doesn't take into consideration. I mean, he's sitting there on the morning of Ron's birthday. Draco is not in the. And we're talking about the morning. Right. So Draco should either be in the Slytherin common room, he should be in the Great hall for breakfast, or maybe he's with Snape, but Snape is in his office. So I Just don't understand why it's not clicking. For Harry, it should be.
- [48:11]
Eric
Yeah.
- [48:12]
Laura
Yeah. Well, especially since he can. He clearly can see Crabbe and Goyle on the map. And the fact that it doesn't, like, indicate a red flag for him, that Crabbe and Goyle just seem to be loitering somewhere without their leader present.
- [48:30]
Eric
Final thought here. Tiny little moment. As Ron is being rushed down to Slughorn's office, Ron brushes past Lavender and he pushes past her and says, leave me alone. She's got a present for him. She remembered his birthday or knows his birthday, which is very touching, but Ron says, harry's going to introduce me to Remil Devanese. Is this the beginning of the end, do we think, for their relationship?
- [49:00]
Andrew
Yeah.
- [49:00]
Laura
If I recall correctly, this is where it starts going downhill. And I mean rightfully so. Well, maybe. I think it's been going downhill the entire time, but this is like, really the turning point. But I mean, rightfully so. If you put yourself in lavender shoes and you're. Yeah. Your boyfriend brushes past you that way on his birthday, saying he's gonna go see another girl. Yeah.
- [49:25]
Andrew
I mean, he could give a valid excuse after all this is resolved. But still, like you said, Laura, this relationship has been on the highway to hell for a while now. Ron's heart is just not in this. So.
- [49:37]
Eric
All right, well, I think that will wrap up our Chapter 18 discussion, save for some odds and ends. Or one in particular. Kurgalante. Connecting the threads, Micah.
- [49:50]
Micah
Yeah. Going back to Chamber of Secrets, Harry saves a Weasley in both. And it is worth mentioning that Ron does get poisoned at the end of this chapter, and that ties back into Draco's nefarious activities at school this year.
- [50:07]
Eric
For MVP of the Week, we asked, what's the best of the 3Ds?
- [50:17]
Andrew
I'm going with determination. Set your mind to it.
- [50:21]
Eric
Yeah. Can't go wrong. I'm gonna give it to Destination. Because imagining or visualizing where it is you want to go is almost as fun as actually being there.
- [50:31]
Micah
I gotta agree with Andrew. Without determination, nothing much works in life.
- [50:37]
Eric
Stuck outside, though.
- [50:38]
Andrew
So true. So true.
- [50:39]
Laura
Queen and I went with Dog Breath. One of the. One of the nicknames that the students came up with for Professor Twycross.
- [50:49]
Eric
That was one of the kindest, one of the most charitable nicknames for him.
- [50:53]
Andrew
He's paid to teaching, doesn't even brush his teeth. Bad.
- [50:57]
Laura
Yuck.
- [50:59]
Eric
So we now head to our links line, where over on Patreon, our patrons at the Slug Club level can participate. We do this every week and this week's prompt was for our patrons to name a time in school where they found themselves totally out of their depth. Subject wise. We asked them, did you overcome your knowledge gap and if so, was it hard work and determination that did it? A good teacher maybe? Or a tutor? Or did you just merely squeak by in class and never take up the subject again?
- [51:35]
Andrew
Monet said My graphics class and first year of engineering was horrible. I have a really difficult time thinking spatially so drawing things 3D and cross section and even CAD software later in the course was awful. I just sat in the labs and cried. My brain doesn't work that way. In the end I went to every exam prep session and learned exactly how they would mark it. I made a strategy for how to get the most points possible given what I could do, labeling dimensions, prep work for the hard stuff, etc. Passed and never had to draw a 3D cube again. Onward, onward.
- [52:08]
Eric
Julianne says. Generally I was a Hermione in high school and college. Still amazing. But the two classes I loathed in college were Organic Chemistry 1 and 2 and then Genetics. The professor was God awful. A good memory charm would be nice to clear my thoughts on those classes. Oof, glad you made it through.
- [52:27]
Micah
Rachel Puff says. I don't think I ever remember being so clueless taking a test than I was in AP calculus in high school. I only scraped by from the teacher giving a curve. I had to retake it in college and paid attention. It did great. More obvious to me now. I did so poorly in high school because I was always reading Harry Potter or Twilight under my desk.
- [52:51]
Andrew
Grading on a curve was the best.
- [52:53]
Eric
Oh it was the best. Yeah.
- [52:55]
Laura
Well I think AP calculus might be a Trauma Bond subject for a lot of these folks. Jason says I took exactly one day of AP calculus in high school. Our teacher gave us a packet of math we should have learned in pre calculus and told us to have at it. It was horrible and I felt super stupid.
- [53:18]
Andrew
Want to give a shout out to Nicole, one of our Slug Club members too, who also called out AP calculus. I just didn't get her full response this time. Robert said, in my freshman year of college I had a media communications professor who was very nice but notoriously hard. One of those most people will fail my class type. He never made study guides and literally anything he mentioned in class could end up on a test. Honestly, I ended up just barely passing by taking the Harry Slughorn route. I constantly emailed him questions about topics he would discuss and also earned some extra credit. He offered by pointing out typos in his textbook so he could have his publishers fix them for future editions.
- [53:58]
Eric
Oh. Oh, God.
- [53:59]
Andrew
Sounds like a Lockhart situation.
- [54:00]
Eric
He's got his own textbook and. Oh, that's such a good strategy.
- [54:06]
Andrew
Buy my textbook for this class and you still won't pass. It's that hard. Wow. I don't like this guy at all.
- [54:12]
Eric
Yeah, that guy sucks. Okay, Rachel said. I immediately thought of physics, which I took as a sophomore in high school. I loved the class and the teacher was fantastic. But once we got to the light and magnetism units, I was totally lost. I remember spending hours on homework and sitting in class copying down notes I didn't understand at all. I went after school regularly to work with the teacher, and he was so patient with me, but eventually said, try not to feel too badly. Some people are naturally good at this. You're not one of them. I think he meant well. I ended up with a B for the class, which I was over the moon about.
- [54:52]
Andrew
That sounds like Trelawney. Some people are naturally good at this, but you're not one of them. She has said something like that in the books, hasn't she?
- [54:59]
Eric
Yeah. It's clear that you did not possess the inner eye. Yeah.
- [55:03]
Micah
And Matthew closes us out. He says, in grad school for professional writing, I took a class called A Grammar of Standard Written English. Our textbook was called American English. The consensus? It was as hard as it sounds. I learned useful things such as, quote, it doesn't matter if your grammar is bad, as long as you know your grammar is bad. However, I just couldn't get through the homework and the test. Finally, another student mentioned that she'd be happy to help me through it. So after class, I'd give her $20 and she'd help me. I passed. The teacher took her aside and thanked her.
- [55:38]
Eric
Oh my God.
- [55:39]
Andrew
There are a bunch more responses on our Patreon. Thanks everybody who submitted. If you have feedback about today's episode, you can email or send a voice memo to mugglecastmail.com you can also leave a comment on Spotify or YouTube or DM us on social. And next week, chapter by chapter continues with Half Blood Prince, Chapter 19, Elf Tales. Be sure to visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. Don't forget, we'll have a new bonus Mugglecast coming this week about the items in our lives that we would turn into Horcruxes. Now it's time for Quizzage.
- [56:19]
Eric
This week's quizzage question. While Lord Voldemort commits patricide by killing Tom Riddle Senior, what is the broader term used when someone kills a near relative of theirs, such as a grandparent? The answer we were plugging what's. Yeah, that's right. The word. Well, Micah, sorry to disappoint. The word we were looking for is parricide, as in patricide, but you replace the T with an R, it's double R. Parricide. Some people did submit familicide. We were looking for parricide. And that's what Riddle does to his grandparents. 33% of people with the correct answers today didn't look it up. So we find out why in some of these names. This week's Kwizzitch winners. Marry me, Laura. Might want to hold on. I have their email address, by the way.
- [57:11]
Laura
Okay.
- [57:12]
Eric
Yeah. Also, I listened to too much True Crime, so I knew this answer too quickly. That's delightful. Eden the Muggleborn established 2012 Voldetort Count Ravioli Impasta. As in impasta.
- [57:30]
Micah
That has to be the best name.
- [57:31]
Eric
Imposter. That's the best name I've ever seen in my life. And runner up, Discount Ravioli Fiery Girl. Eden Elmendorf, Muggleborn established 2012. A lot of 14 year olds listen to our show and participate in Kwizzitch. Apparently Owlbear and Ol Voldemalde. Thanks to everyone who submitted. And here is next week's Quizzage question. In chapter 18 of book 6, a bezoar from the stomach of a goat is used as a cure for poison. In reality, bezoars can appear in humans as ailments. What popular soft drink brand is used to treat bezoars in humans? Oh, here's a hint. It's exactly the one that you think. Submit your answer to us on the Quizzage form located on the Mugglecast website. Go to mugglecast.com quizzic or if you're already on our site, maybe checking out the transcripts or the Must Listens page. Click on Quizzage from the main nav bar at the top.
- [58:31]
Andrew
Thanks everybody for listening. Congratulations on your engagement, Laura. I'm Andrew.
- [58:36]
Laura
Oh, thank you. Yeah.
- [58:38]
Eric
I'm Eric.
- [58:39]
Micah
I'm Micah.
- [58:40]
Laura
And I'm Laura.
- [58:41]
Andrew
Bye, everyone.
- [58:42]
Laura
By.
- [59:03]
Eric
Ra.