Rookie Rule Breaker (OOTP Chapter 16, In The Hog's Head)

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Podcast
Episode: Rookie Rule Breaker (Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 16: The Hogshead)
Release Date: February 25, 2025

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Overview

In the February 25, 2025, episode of MuggleCast, titled "Rookie Rule Breaker," hosts Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Laura delve deep into Chapter 16 of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, aptly named "The Hogshead." This episode not only dissects the intricacies of the Hog's Head establishment but also navigates through recent updates in the Wizarding World, including the release of new illustrated editions and the upcoming Cursed Child tour. The hosts engage in lively discussions, offer insightful analyses, and interact with their Patreon community, ensuring a rich and engaging experience for both longtime listeners and newcomers.

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1. Welcome and Host Introductions ([01:50] - [02:00])

The episode kicks off with the hosts introducing themselves:

• Andrew: Hosts the podcast and sets the stage for the episode.
• Eric, Micah, Laura: Long-time friends and co-hosts, each bringing their unique perspectives to the discussion.

Notable Quote:
Andrew: "Welcome to MuggleCast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom..."

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2. News Updates ([02:51] - [08:03])

a. Scholastic's New Illustrated Editions

The hosts discuss Scholastic's announcement of interactive illustrated editions for Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. This transition marks the departure of the renowned artistic duo Minalima, who were initially slated to continue but have stepped away. The new illustrator, Karl James Mountford, maintains a style reminiscent of Minalima, raising questions about intellectual property and stylistic continuity.

Notable Quotes:
Laura: "It looks very similar to Minalima. So they're continuing on with the artistic style." ([05:04])
Eric: "It looks very deliberate, it looks very nice. But yeah, you can see the influence..." ([04:28])

b. Cursed Child Tour Announcements

The podcast announces the Cursed Child show's tour dates, including stops in Boston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and Washington D.C. Laura expresses excitement about attending the show, highlighting its immersive experience compared to reading the script.

Notable Quotes:
Andrew: "Cursed Child is going on tour over the next year..." ([08:07])
Laura: "I think it's definitely worth seeing... the magic is very impressive." ([09:10])

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3. In-Depth Discussion: Chapter 16 – The Hogshead ([13:06] - [26:13])

The heart of the episode revolves around a comprehensive analysis of Chapter 16, "The Hogshead," from Order of the Phoenix. The hosts break down the setting, character interactions, and thematic elements present in the chapter.

a. Setting and Atmosphere

The Hogshead is depicted as a grimy, secluded pub contrasting sharply with the warmth of the Three Broomsticks. The hosts vividly describe its ambiance:

Notable Quotes:
Micah: "It was not at all like the Three Broomsticks... the Hogshead bar comprised one small, dingy and very dirty room..." ([17:19])
Laura: "Maybe like a cross between a petting zoo and a dive bar..." ([17:32])

b. Symbolism and Plot Significance

The Hogshead serves as a symbolic underground hub for Dumbledore's Army (DA), representing the clandestine nature of the students' rebellion against Umbridge and the Ministry of Magic.

Notable Quotes:
Andrew: "The Hogshead symbolizes the underground nature of their meeting and their intentions..." ([27:57])
Eric: "It's exactly the sort of place you'd expect something subversive to be getting off the ground." ([28:33])

c. Character Analysis

• Hermione Granger: Praised for her organizational skills in forming the DA, though critiqued for her choice of meeting location.

  Notable Quotes:
  Micah: "Hermione definitely should get credit for organizing all of this..." ([31:09])
  Laura: "She basically realizes she didn't prepare as much as she should have." ([30:44])

• Harry Potter: Explored his motivations for leading the DA, questioning the influence of his status as a Horcrux.

  Notable Quotes:
  Eric: "If Harry wanted revenge for what Umbridge did to his hand... the Horcrux is deeply involved..." ([38:34])
  Laura: "It's good to see him realize, oh, I do have something that I'm good at." ([40:54])

• Aberforth Dumbledore: Discussed his subtle presence and the implications of his spying activities.

  Notable Quotes:
  Micah: "His brother's there spying, most likely." ([35:59])

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4. Thematic Discussions and Symbolism ([26:13] - [35:05])

The hosts delve into the deeper themes presented in the chapter, such as secrecy, trust, and the challenges of organizing a covert group within a hostile environment.

Notable Quotes:
Micah: "Despite its appearance, part of the allure is the fact that it isn't all that appealing to the average person." ([21:40])
Laura: "It's all about that going underground feel." ([28:42])

---

5. Audience Interaction and Community Engagement ([62:34] - [71:55])

a. Pen Pal MVP

Listeners, particularly from the Patreon Slug Club tier, share creative ideas on whom they'd like to be pen pals with in the Wizarding World. Suggestions range from Charlie Weasley and Nicholas Flamel to Dumbledore and Dobby, reflecting the community's passion and imagination.

Notable Quotes:
Laura: "I actually think he would be Dumbledore. He would write really long, literary beautiful letters..." ([63:22])
Micah: "I feel like he would be fun to write back and forth with high energy." ([63:38])

b. Quizzage

The hosts present trivia questions to engage listeners, encouraging participation and rewarding correct answers.

Quiz Questions Covered:

1. What is the lowest score possible on the SAT?
   Answer: 400 ([73:41])
2. In the mid-20th century United Kingdom, pint glasses were placed in what type of drinking vessel?
   Answer: (Implied context needed from the transcript)

Notable Quotes:
Eric: "60% of people who submitted the correct answer said they didn't look it up." ([73:41])

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6. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Topics ([71:57] - [76:33])

The episode wraps up with announcements about other podcast segments like "What the Hype" and "Millennial," promoting further engagement and encouraging listeners to support the podcast through Patreon and merchandise purchases.

Notable Quotes:
Andrew: "Check out our other weekly podcasts, What the Hype and Millennial..." ([74:31])
Eric: "Thank you everybody who supports us. Again, we could not do this without you." ([75:00])

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Conclusion

"Rookie Rule Breaker" offers a thorough exploration of Chapter 16 from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, enriched by current Wizarding World news and active listener participation. The hosts balance analytical discussions with light-hearted interactions, maintaining an engaging atmosphere throughout the episode. Notable quotes peppered with timestamps provide depth and authenticity, making the summary valuable for those who haven't listened to the episode while offering comprehensive insights for regular followers.

Transcript

[Andrew]

I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve.

[Laura]

And it does without me lifting a.

[Andrew]

Finger so I can get in more.

[Laura]

Squats anywhere I can.

[Eric]

1, 2, 3 will that be cash or credit? Credit.

[Andrew]

4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do. You get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy. Get the Angel REEF Special at McDonald's. Now let's break it down.

[Laura]

My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions and a sesame seed bun of course. And don't forget the fries and the drinks.

[Andrew]

Sound good? I participate in restaurants for a limited time. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the Wizarding World fandom, where we go chapter by chapter through the Harry Potter books, share the latest news and keep you updated on the forthcoming Harry Potter TV show. And this week, grab a few quid and a dirty bottle of Butterbeer while we discuss Order of The Phoenix Chapter 16 the Hogshead I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

Actually brought a Hogshead glass to the recording tonight. Ah. Whoa. From the Wizarding World theme parks. Yes.

[Eric]

Oh man.

[Micah]

What kind of brew is inside of your mug?

[Andrew]

I was tempted to actually put beer in this, but it's just my usual Celsius energy drink that I drink while podcasting.

[Micah]

What flavor?

[Andrew]

It's one of the berry ones. Are you into Celsius now? Micah?

[Micah]

No, I'm not, but I know that there are different flavors.

[Eric]

I haven't ever seen it outside the can. Andrew, are you sure you have the right glass and not like the other glass that you keep in your office for emergencies?

[Andrew]

I gotta say I'm not a huge fan of the color. I too never see this drink outside of the can.

[Micah]

So in fairness, it is a mug from the Hogshead, so even if the liquid was clear that you poured into it, it was tainted by whatever Aberforth failed to clean out of that mug.

[Andrew]

This has been sitting in my cabinet unused for years, so I'm definitely drinking.

[Eric]

I'm very impressed. I have mine in my cabinet. I didn't think of it.

[Andrew]

Well, before we get into the chapter, we do have a couple of news items. First of all, Scholastic has announced the interactive illustrated edition of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. The first three books were done by Minalima and a few months ago, maybe a year ago now, we told everyone that Minalima was stepping off the series. They weren't going to finish it. It was surprising. We didn't know why. We still don't know why people were mad because people love Minalima. They created all the art in the Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts movies and they did a great job with those illustrated editions. Goblet of Fire and presumably Onward, is illustrated by Karl James Mountford and will have paper engineered elements designed by Jess Tis Gilbert or Tyce Gilbert. Have you guys looked at the art yet? It looks very similar to Minalima. So they're continuing on with the artistic style.

[Eric]

Kind of. One of our biggest questions was how do they continue this series without kind of infringing. This sounds nuts, but, you know, infringing on Minalima's IP in a way because Minalima had evolved and grown with the movies and the books and the story of Harry Potter for so long that it's hard to imagine this sort of, you know, product taking over for the Minalima books and not looking a lot like Minalima. So it looks very deliberate, it looks very nice. But yeah, it's. You can see the influence and I'm just hoping everything works out okay in the courtroom.

[Andrew]

I'm sure that this is run through some lawyers. I was wondering that too. But yeah, you definitely see the similarities and yet you do see differences in the designs of the characters.

[Laura]

Yeah, I agree with that. They might have also, like, cut Minalima a check for it for the style, for the influence. Also, like, they might be getting royalties off of these later editions even if they didn't necessarily design them. Clearly the design was influenced by theirs, so there could be a deal there for them.

[Micah]

I don't, I don't want to be a party pooper, but I'm not here for this. Okay.

[Andrew]

No, that's a good take.

[Micah]

You know, I'm somebody who is very much open to collecting different illustrated versions of the Harry Potter series and I, I want to continue with Minalima. But if they're not continuing I'm not continuing with their.

[Eric]

Oh, okay.

[Andrew]

Left a bad taste in your mouth. It's not necessarily the art that we're already seeing in these early previews.

[Micah]

No, I'm sure these are two very hard working people, but. But I get it. Something doesn't sit right with me about this.

[Andrew]

Well, you're a fan of Minalima, you wanted Minalima to continue the series, and now they're not a part of it and you're out. I get it.

[Eric]

Yeah. I'll probably be in the same boat. It is funny to read the press release surrounding this sort of thing. It includes the line, as US publisher of Harry Potter, it's exciting to see J.K. rowling's beloved series illustrated and reimagined by a talented group of international artists over the years, including Mary Grand Prix, Brian Selznick, Kazu Kibuishi, Jim K, Minalim Lima, Zia Gao, and now Carl James Mountford. We're threatening. It's like, oh, don't worry. Minalima was just one of like nine other artists that we have is like, they're not like the biggest name in illustrated Harry Potter stuff. They're just one of the international artists we've worked in before. Now we have this new one. It's like, okay, Downplay the significance of this departure.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well.

[Laura]

And also how kind of sketchy it felt. To be perfectly honest, it was a bit weird. Yeah.

[Micah]

Yeah. Andrew is going to keep me honest, though. In mid to late October, he's going to look at my bookshelf and say, Micah, what is that that I see there next to the Prisoner of Azkaban illustrated edition by Minalima?

[Andrew]

Right? Yeah. So the book does come out October 14, 2025. Pretty pricey. $49.99. By comparison, Prisoner of Azkaban was $39.99, and Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets were $37.99. So as the books get longer, the price gets steeper.

[Eric]

Yeah, the page count doubles.

[Laura]

I get it, I get it.

[Andrew]

I guess $50 for a book. That does feel really steep.

[Laura]

Yeah, but it's an illustrated edition. It's not just a book, you know.

[Andrew]

How much was Jim K's let's see, $48. Okay, so comparable. Plus this one has, like interactive elements, so that's where that extra $2 plus.

[Micah]

It weighs about 20 pounds.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And while we're on the subject of illustrated editions, I just wanted to mention that we still don't know who's going to carry on the Jim K. Illustrated series he did up to book 5 and book 5 was co illustrated by Neil Packer. So maybe he's taking it over, but we still don't know who. And there's only two books left in that series. That's the one I've been sticking with, the one I've been loyal to. So I'm eager to hear when Half.

[Eric]

Blood Prince is coming, Part one or part two.

[Andrew]

Stop trying to make that happen. It's not gonna happen. Also wanted to mention that Cursed Child is going on tour over the next year and our listeners may know that already, but new cities for the tour have been announced in recent weeks. It'll be in Boston this November, followed by Atlanta Laura in February 2026, followed by Minneapolis in April 2026. It's currently in LA and it's going to head to DC this summer. Laura, I shouted you out because you actually haven't seen Cursed Child yet.

[Laura]

I have not, no. So that'll be my chance. Is the show gonna pay for me to go?

[Andrew]

Is Cursed Child paying for you to see cursed child? Yeah. Mugglecast. Yeah.

[Eric]

As long as you spend less than $419.32, I think this panel will be okay with it.

[Micah]

I think it's only fair considering that the three of us saw Cursed Child on behalf of this show.

[Laura]

True. I was like half kidding. I was trying to basically go for like a. I'll go if the show pays for me to go.

[Micah]

Maybe get you a press screening, Laura.

[Eric]

Oh, that number was the price of tickets when it was two parts that we saw it for my birthday anyway. Oh, okay.

[Laura]

I look forward to actually getting to see the good stuff about Cursed Child because it really, like, by all accounts, you just have to see it and actually beholding all of the elements is the experience and just don't pay too much attention to the story.

[Eric]

Yeah, right.

[Andrew]

Yeah. No, it's definitely worth seeing. If anybody's been considering it on the fence about it, I would definitely recommend it. It's way better an experience than reading the script book. And the magic is very impressive. And I'm interested in seeing this leaner version of the show myself, so I definitely want to see it again. I've only seen a two part version and Micah, you have a news item for us too.

[Micah]

I do. So I was traveling for work last week and apparently I wasn't the only one because I was out in San Francisco for the All Star Game and I found out that Emma Watson didn't let me know that she was going to be at the Celebrity Game. And this is an event that takes place the Friday night of All Star Weekend.

[Andrew]

NBA All Stars.

[Micah]

NBA All Star. Yes. And she was in Oakland, I was in San Francisco, so I wouldn't have been able to make it over. But if I knew she was going to be there, I probably would have made an exception and, you know, asked to go to the celebrity game versus the event that I was at on Friday night.

[Andrew]

All right, this is a mix of, like, fanboying and humble bragging.

[Eric]

We're gonna write an article for missed connections on behalf of Micah and Emma not meeting up at the.

[Micah]

What I found interesting is that they played this up. Is a very rare public appearance for her. She's not somebody who is normally kind of out and about.

[Laura]

No, you're right the way that we.

[Micah]

May see some other Potter stars, but.

[Andrew]

That goes to show you how big a deal NBA All Stars is. Emma's emerging from her cave and attending a bath. Yeah, I don't know. It's this rare public appearance. Where is she hiding? Normally, I don't know. Where is she hiding? This is according to E. Online.

[Micah]

Master's degree.

[Laura]

I think she and her brother. I think she and her brother, like, recently came out with their own gin. Like, I don't think she's hiding.

[Micah]

See, she's clearly not communicating with you either.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I'm a huge shit. Oh, damn. I'm going to Total Wine tonight, see if I can find this. Oh, it's only in the uk it looks like. Darn. All right, well, luckily for me, I'm going over there in May, so I'll.

[Micah]

Try it then, man.

[Andrew]

All right, well, sorry, Micah, that you missed Emma. Better luck next NBA All Stars.

[Micah]

Angry at some colleagues who didn't give me the heads up. That's where you're at.

[Andrew]

Well, as we continue to analyze the books and share news with everybody and cover the Harry Potter TV show, we could really use your support [e-mail] mugglecast your financial support allows us to focus more time on the show and less time in the Muggle world. And in exchange for your support, we offer you instant access to lots of great benefits like bonus Mugglecast episodes, a new physical gift every year ad free episodes of the show, and access to our exclusive Facebook and discord groups for Harry Potter fans and Mugglecast listeners. So be sure to check that all out again. It's patreon.com mugglecast and thank you to everybody who supports us. We really appreciate it. Coming soon in a bonus Mugglecast I review Emma Watson's gin.

[Eric]

I can't wait. The hunt for Emma Watson's gin across all the UK content.

[Laura]

Actually, yeah, actually, we should.

[Andrew]

I'll make a note of that. So the show's gonna buy me the gin and Laura the cursed child ticket.

[Eric]

Look, Andrew, while you're there, pick up some for the rest of us, okay?

[Andrew]

All right. Well, without further ado, it's time for chapter by chapter. And this week we're discussing Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 16, the Hogshead. But it's not the first time, right, Eric?

[Eric]

That's right. We last discussed chapter 16 on episode 452 of Mugglecast. The title of that episod was Essence of Goat, which I think perfectly describes what goes on in the Hog's Head. And that episode is from February 4, 2020. Here is the clip.

[Laura]

Three turns should do a living.

[Andrew]

Good luck. What the. Episode 452.

[Micah]

With a great deal of long gray hair and a beard, he was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry.

[Andrew]

Why is that?

[Micah]

Wonder why?

[Andrew]

And I love that his first words to Harry was just what? Because this is the antithesis of Albus Dumbledore. Albus Dumbledore, well spoken, has all these amazing lines, and then Aberforth's first word is what? It's just. Just a perfect contrast.

[Laura]

Yeah. And I mean, really throws you off the scent. Did any of us, when we were reading this book for the first time, suspect that this was Dumbledore's brother?

[Andrew]

Right.

[Eric]

I didn't.

[Andrew]

If Aberforth walked up and said, what do you want to drink? It is our choices that tell us who we really are. That would have been suspicious.

[Eric]

Mysterious thing, time.

[Micah]

Well, there was no other chapter I'd rather return to Mugglecast for.

[Laura]

Thanks for.

[Eric]

Welcome back, Micah.

[Micah]

Such an appropriate chapter for us to discuss this week. And look, we start things off, we're headed to Hogsmeade, but not before we get sniffed at a little bit. Literally sniffed at by Filch. So does everybody you know not have contraband on them? As we head to a little time off here in the Hogshead.

[Laura]

No promises.

[Andrew]

No, sir. Let's do it.

[Micah]

Andrew, I'm wary of you. I'm afraid you're going to get us stopped for some reason. And Filch is going to pull you over to the side.

[Andrew]

Excuse you, I got nothing to hide.

[Micah]

Well, you've all heard of Hogwarts history. Now it's going to be time for the Hogshead. A history. I figured we could have a little bit of Fun with this Hogsmeade dive bar. Wow. What?

[Andrew]

I guess it is a dive bar.

[Micah]

It is a dive bar.

[Laura]

Totally. A dive bar at night.

[Micah]

That place is popping.

[Eric]

This is one of the places I would not actually take a dive in on any circumstance. If my face is that close to the ground, I'm gonna throw up.

[Andrew]

It probably does not smell nice in there.

[Micah]

Well, it depends if you like Essence of Goat. If you don't, then it probably doesn't smell great at all. Are we thinking it smells like when you go to a petting zoo?

[Eric]

Maybe stone floor with tons of, like. I don't know. I imagine hay like a hay like scent, but just a buildup of grime over 100 years. Yeah, I think it's. That's probably not far off. Also, people smell. That's kind of like just a general fact, too. It doesn't need to smell so much like animals if they don't have proper cleanliness. It's going to be the stuffiest kind of just grimy bar in every way imaginable.

[Andrew]

I imagine it's smelling like Bourbon street in New Orleans. It smells like several things. I don't want to have to bleep on the show, so I won't. It just smells very nasty there. Anything that can come out of the human body. That's what Bourbon street smells like.

[Eric]

Oh, man.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

You think that's what the Hogshead smells like, though?

[Andrew]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Laura]

I don't think people are having raves at the Hogshead. Like, I don't think. I don't think there. I don't think they have Bourbon street energy in the Hogshead.

[Andrew]

Oh, well, all right. All right. I do like the farm idea. I could definitely smell. Imagine it smelling like. Like hay, I think Eric mentioned.

[Eric]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe like sour milk.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Laura]

Maybe like a cross between a petting zoo and a dive bar, because that's basically what this is.

[Micah]

Well, the official text says that it was not at all like the Three Broomsticks, whose large bar gave an impression of gleaming warmth and cleanliness. The Hogshead bar comprised one small, dingy and very dirty room that smelled strongly of something that might have been goats. The bay window was so encrusted with grime that very little daylight could permeate the room, which was lit instead with the stubs of candles sitting on rough wooden tables. The floor seemed at first glance to be earthy, though as Harry stepped onto it, he realized that there was stone beneath what seemed to be the accumulated filth of centuries.

[Andrew]

Ugh.

[Laura]

That's terrible. Has anyone ever experienced that?

[Eric]

Laurie, you typically enjoy a dive bar.

[Laura]

I do love a good dive bar. I can't say that I've ever been in one that was quite this filthy. But I think it's to be expected in a dive bar environment that it's not going to be gleaming, shining, beautiful. In terms of the environment, it's going to be a little grubby, it's going to be a little grungy, but you can get some good. Some good beers there. Actually, one of my.

[Andrew]

Going to be dark, it's going to be cozy, it's going to be cheap.

[Laura]

Thank you. That too.

[Micah]

And a little odorous.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You can count on that there.

[Eric]

Well, I will say this is maybe a slight preview of next week's quizzes question. But in general, the UK is full of these pubs that have been there for over 100 years. Like you can actually find pubs that have been in operation since the 1800s.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah. That's one of the amazing things about England and the uk.

[Eric]

So on that cast, that sort of like in a. Like almost a pleasant light in the sense of it's tradition. Like, my grandfather drank here every night, you know, kind of a thing.

[Andrew]

Laura, you have a dive bar recommendation, right?

[Laura]

Oh, yeah. So actually one of my favorite dive bars is in New York City. It's in Greenwich Village. It's the old Rabbit Club. Micah, if you've never been, you should. They have so many amazing beers from around the world and it is this cramped little basement, clear, clearly intended to be used for storage. And somebody just turned it into a dive bar. But it's really, really good.

[Andrew]

I also have a New York dive bar recommendation. Laura, you and I have been there. It's called dbl Dive Bar Lounge. Let's just say Dumbledore would be a big fan of dbl. Micah, I think you should go for research purposes. It's in Hell's Kitchen.

[Micah]

And report back to you.

[Andrew]

Oh, look at this. I'm not even joking. Just around the corner is a coffee shop called the Jolly Goat Coffee Bar. This was made to be.

[Laura]

It's meant to be. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Aberforth can hang out at the coffee bar and Dumbledore can. Albus can hang out at dbl. This is the slowest movie, chapter by chapter, ever.

[Eric]

You know what? This is actually maybe the most faithful way of discussing this chapter, as a matter of fact. What are your favorite bars?

[Micah]

Different types of bars.

[Eric]

In what ways are they similar to the Hogshead?

[Laura]

I mean, it does set the scene for what's about to happen.

[Andrew]

It does. It sure does.

[Micah]

Despite its appearance, part of the allure is the fact that it isn't all that appealing to the average person. Right. And we see a lot of business go down here throughout the course of the Harry Potter series. There's even an event that is rumored to have taken place all the way back in 1612, the Goblin Rebellion. The Hogshead was supposedly a hideaway of sorts for witches and wizards during this rebellion.

[Eric]

So I'd rebel too, when I got to look at these cleanliness standards.

[Micah]

Well, you clearly want Umbridge to come here and investigate and clean it up. Right.

[Eric]

You know, I think she could just straighten it out a little bit. Yeah, I think she could shape people up.

[Micah]

But I would say for us, the most notable event that's taken place here prior to the meeting of Dumbledore's army is the prophecy. This is where Trelawney delivers Harry and Voldemort's prophecy to Dumbledore to a eavesdropping Snape. It takes place just above the pub here in the Hogshead.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's. This is such a storied place. And it's almost like, I don't know, humble origins. This is like where Christ's manger was. It's like that level of destitute and like, just totally. You would never suspect. But everyone who's here uses this place for exactly what it offers. The students use it because it's a way to not be overheard, but only asterisk only by the people that they don't want to be overheard by. They're overheard by all these spies. As it turns out, everyone in there that's not a student is pretty much working for somebody else, which is how their secret gets out. But that's getting ahead of ourselves. But the people that are in here prefer it in here for what it's offering. And Hagrid is a regular. He also prefers the clientele that this place attracts. They're the sort of people who are more likely to have a hidden dragon egg for trade on them than the kind that are right off the main drag.

[Micah]

Right. This is where that conversation takes place between Hagrid and Quirrelmort. So, and we know, of course, coming in Deathly Hallows, there's a secret passage that is created from the Hogshead to Hogwarts for the members of Dumbledore's army to be able to communicate regularly with Aberforth. So lots of good things coming out of a place that smells like goats.

[Eric]

And you almost forgot to mention, Micah, that you and I first tried fire whiskey in the Hogshead.

[Micah]

Oh, yeah, that's right down.

[Andrew]

And I just showed off this cup. I got it at the Hogshead. And I have to say, this is one of my favorite places to hang out at. The Wizarding World Lands. It's sort of like how it's described in the books. It's dark, it's cozy, it's clean. Thank goodness you don't have to worry about any unwashed cups. And, you know, the floor squeaky clean and all that, but it's. It's a nice spot to hang out. And there's even a back patio. If you're looking at the bar, you turn to the left, you can get on onto a back patio, which is a quiet spot if you're trying to catch a break from all the hustle and bustle. So, yeah. Oh, and the literal hogshead hanging behind the bar comes to life every five to 10 minutes or whatever it is. So, yeah, it's a good spot.

[Eric]

That's really cool. And for all the reasons that you tend to avoid theme parks, the Hogshead section of that theme park is the respite from the main crowd. There could be hours long waits to get into or get food at the Three Broomsticks, but the small room off the side of it, that's the Hogshead. Maybe there's a line out the door five, 10 people deep. You're served. You get a drink at least in 20 minutes.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And there's a bit of an underground drink menu. Right. I feel like we've ordered off of that a couple times.

[Eric]

Yeah, there's a secret menu.

[Andrew]

I think they have a. They do have hard liquor, but they don't advertise it. Don't quote me on that. But I think, yeah, that's what's going on.

[Eric]

I think somebody told us to get a Long Island Iced Tea, and it was the strongest Long Island I've ever.

[Micah]

It was very helpful for me in terms of being able to get onto Hagrid's Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure. I'm not a roller coaster person.

[Andrew]

Oh, that's an easy roller coaster, though. And I hate roller coasters. If I can do that, Hagrid1, you can, too. Okay, Well, I did.

[Micah]

With the help of the Hogsman.

[Andrew]

I will say my favorite hack that I've done is I've brought in a plastic shot of Fireball, and then I order a Butterbeer at the Hogshead. And then I Dump the little thing of fireball into the Butterbeer and then I have an alcoholic butterbeer to enjoy at the Wizarding World. Because I think, as most people know, when you order Butterbeer at the parks, it's not actually alcoholic. Unfortunately for us adults.

[Micah]

Well, the Hogshead is a quieter space, which means that the group that is gathering here is much more easily overheard. So while it is off the beaten path and secluded, it's certainly more noticeable when a group of Hogwarts students are there on their free weekend. So while Hermione may have had the right thought initially about where to gather, was this the right choice?

[Laura]

No, it wasn't really. And I, you know, and obviously we know Hermione gets called out for this later, but I honestly think they would have done better to meet up at the Three Broomsticks or somewhere where it was more common for students to be gathering. An environment where it's already really loud, it's going to be harder for people to overhear you. You're not going to look out of place place. You're not going to raise any questions for anyone. It's kind of like being hidden in plain sight.

[Eric]

I like that for sure, that aspect of it. Yeah, it's ultimately, this is still early stages, so the fact that they met up and had a meeting and were seen and overheard doing so, there's still not ultimately a lot of info to report on them. It's best that they get this out of the way and then immediately find a more secluded place to actually do the meetings, which is what happens. But had they had to have another type of meeting like here, it wouldn't have worked and all of the details of everything they were attempting to do would have been leaked to the very least people that they wanted.

[Andrew]

I do like this from a creative perspective though, in terms of the author's choice, because I think it does symbolize. The Hogshead, symbolizes the underground nature of their meeting and their intentions. It's this dark, seedy place with mystery people. This is a, you know, they're undercover, if you will, at the Hogshead, making some plans that their superiors would not like them to be making. So I just like it from a symbolism perspective.

[Eric]

I like that. I mean, it's exactly the sort of place you'd expect something subversive to be getting off the ground. Except in this case, it's students trying to get educated.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah, it's all about that going underground feel. Exactly that. And yeah, I think, I think it would actually be really Natural for someone this age to think that this would be the right meeting location because of all of the ways that we've described it. But, you know, as people, you know, who've reached adult adulthood I think we would choose somewhere else.

[Eric]

I mean, Madame Puttifoots is another common place where it really wouldn't be too out of place. Also, the Three Broomsticks does have that room upstairs that Flitwick and McGonagall and Cornelius retire to. I understand that you probably have to speak with Rose Merta but we know that her, like, sympathies would probably like somebody somewhere. Maybe Fred gets on really well with Rosemerta so they could probably use that.

[Micah]

What does that mean, that room?

[Eric]

I just mean he has a good rapport.

[Micah]

Oh, I can see that.

[Andrew]

See, I don't think the issue is necessarily the location. It's Hermione shrugging off the idea that Umbridge or somebody else could be at the Hogshead right now. This comes up in this chapter, Harry. Or somebody says, could. Could that tall woman over there be Umbridge? And then Hermione's like, umbridge is shorter than that woman. Okay, so Umbridge is walking around on stilts to disguise herself. Like, something like that could feasibly happen in the wizarding world. Umbridge aside, there could be somebody else they know or shouldn't. Somebody else there who shouldn't be overhearing what they're talking about. Lucius could be there, for all we know, under one of these cloaks. It's just. It seems very irresponsible and out of character for Hermione to not be suspicious of who is exactly in the bar at that moment.

[Laura]

Well, she's out of her element, honestly. Hermione doesn't really have street smarts.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's true.

[Laura]

And I feel like she kind of bit off more than she could chew here because we see how nervous she is when she's finally up in front of everyone and it's her job to kind of pull everybody together and explain to them why they're here. She kind of realizes. She maybe didn't. At least it seemed to me, she realizes she didn't prepare as much as she should have.

[Eric]

You know, it's. When you take that into account, it makes more sense that she's leading with this magical security that she has with the list. The fact that she protects what they're doing the only way that she can't. There's a lot of elements that she can't control. The fact that it's so tight with her with her spellwork on the contract that they sign and locking them in, in that way maybe accounts for, or she assumes will account for the backup. But I got to give props to Hermione anyway because she, Harry, is making this damn near impossible. Like, she has done him a real solid by putting him up to this, saying that she thinks he would be a great teacher. And even though he's flattered or likes the idea, he still doesn't say anything for like two weeks after that gets suggested and she has to like prod him and he like snaps at her and she's like, oh, and don't snap at me. And he's like, oh, I'm not. But he wants to. The fact that she makes this happen, she goes around, she does the outreach, she gets all the people from all the houses to actually show up and manages to do so up to this point undetected. Hermione's the MVP here. Like, yes, she does not account for everything. But this would not have happened were it not for Hermione and then including all of the future things that she does to make the DA happen, like the coins. I'm just very impressed by this book. Really wouldn't have worked without her.

[Laura]

Totally. And I. I don't think anyone here is criticizing her by any. Because the end of the day, she's a child in this moment. And it's actually really incredible to your point, Eric, that she does accomplish everything that she accomplishes with the DA from the beginning.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah. They really end up doing the exact thing that Umbridge and Fudge are afraid that they're going to do, and that is forming Dumbledore's army. And I think that Hermione definitely should get credit for organizing all of this, but may have been a little bit shortsighted in picking the location. We, of course, as adults can sit here and debate the pros and cons of doing it at the Hogshead. But there were real concerns that should have been in the back of her mind, especially when Harry was raising it, which somebody brought up earlier and we do know, and we'll talk a little bit about this later on, that there are two people actually of importance that overhear these conversations. One goes to Dumbledore, the other goes to Umbridge. So it really is surprising that Hermione wouldn't have taken that a little bit more into account. Though I will say, going to a place like the Three Broomsticks or somebody or someplace else that's well known within Hogsmeade, this is not a Small group of people. This is 25 people congregating together. So that in and of itself likely would have drawn some attention as well. But I do want to briefly talk about. I know we referenced Aberforth in our Mugglecast Time Turner segment, but the person at the bar who looks vaguely familiar to Harry. I know Harry has a lot on his mind here, but he couldn't give it a little bit more thought of why does this person look familiar to me? And nobody else sees it either. Not Ron, not Hermione.

[Andrew]

It's a fun little Easter egg, teasing what's to come and who it actually is. But again, you think about this space, it's dark in there, there's a lot of people around. Harry's probably a little nervous about this upcoming meeting. He's not thinking totally clearly about who this could potentially be.

[Micah]

If he.

[Eric]

Yeah, if he were bored out of his mind, not there doing anything else, and found himself with a few hours to kill, he'd nail it. He'd know exactly who this guy was. But that's sort of also the brilliance of how. Again, getting back to the, the, the manger scene here. You wouldn't expect the brother of Albus Dumbledore, renowned wizard, to be found this place, the. The why it works that, you know, Aberforth is. And spying for. For Albus too, and his brother, is because nobody would suspect like they usually, I, I imagine ne'er do. Wells would go into this pub to do something that is not going to be known or noticed by Albus Dumbledore specifically. And that's sort of the brilliance of it all, is the fact that, yeah.

[Micah]

His brother's there spying, most likely.

[Eric]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Micah]

For, you know, when they're on speaking terms, of course. Well, we are going to talk more about the formation of Dumbledore's army, but we need to take a quick break, have a shot of fire, whiskey and we'll be right back after this.

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[Micah]

So Eric, you were talking a little bit about this earlier. Harry's thought process in whether or not he should teach defense against the Dark Arts and eventually Hermione does get him to come around and he does say he's given it quite a bit of thought. And I'm wondering is there a part of him knowing that he is part Harry, part Horcrux, and that Voldemort so much desired to teach defense against the Dark Arts that maybe part of this is the Horcrux, part of it is Harry or maybe not, but I want to throw it out there.

[Eric]

I think he doesn't go into this like he does so many other things with like a vengeance or like an an anger of wanting to get Umbridge. Like the rebellion thing is a is a side effect. Essentially the rebellious tone that Dumbledore's army takes and the sort of tongue in cheek rebelliousness is ultimately secondhand. If, if, if Harry wanted revenge for what Umbridge did to his hand and was therefore starting this group, I would suggest that the Horcrux is deeply involved in his decision making here. But this seems to be almost like a bright light into the purity of Harry and his ability to escape Voldemort to this point comes from the light side though, maybe the dark. But I think right now it's probably not the Horcrux in my opinion.

[Andrew]

I agree with that as well. Harry is always an adventurous person. He's up for trying new things things. He's a born leader we see in this chapter. He's subconsciously planning out lessons after Hermione dropped the seed in his head. And I think he's inspired by his friends, too, to lead this class. He knows they need him. He probably is flattered that they think he could lead a class. So, yeah, I just think it's. It's in Harry's character to actually realize that he wants to lead this class.

[Laura]

You know, I was just reflecting on Harry's experiences earlier in this book where he was really jealous of Ron and Hermione being prefects and feeling like he didn't have anything he was being celebrated for. And he was going through that running list in his head of all the things he'd done that Ron and Hermione hadn't done. And he finally had to sit back and admit to himself, I'm better at Quidditch, but I'm not better at anything else. And I think that kind of tanked Harry's morale for a while there. So it's actually good to see him realize, oh, I do have something that I'm good at. I do have something else that makes me special. So I'm gonna vote not the Horcrux.

[Andrew]

I think Mike is. Horcrux is making him think it's a Horcrux. You think Dark.

[Eric]

It's always a worthwhile question to ask.

[Laura]

We should always ask.

[Eric]

I do feel for Harry, though. I mean, he's spent all year so far feeling so maligned because nothing short of the Minister for Magic is calling him a liar. And he's still having to contend with that. In fact, at one point he says to Hermione, oh, I understand now why everyone's here. They want to hear me talk about this situation. It's like he feels like he didn't earn it.

[Andrew]

In the case of leading Dumbledore's army, this is something that's in Harry's control. Eric, you were just talking about the Ministry. Ministry coming for him. The Prophet coming for him, coming for Dumbledore. Here's something he can take into his own hands. Seize the opportunity and write the ship. Set the record straight. You know, in these uncertain times, this is something that he can actually take on and maybe it'll be a good distraction, too. And it's his way of clapping back and responding to the Ministry in Umbridge and the Prophet. And I think. I think it was really cool to see Harry feel inspired to teach this class when he started subconsciously thinking of these lessons. I think we should all be so lucky as to have these moments in our lives where we get These ideas in our head and we get so excited about them, we just can't stop thinking about them.

[Micah]

Totally. And one of the things that is really great about the group that shows up is that it isn't just Gryffindors, it's Hufflepuffs, it's Ravenclaws. And he almost gets pumped up by the conversation that starts happening. They're really building him up, talking about all the things that he has been able to achieve over the course of these last couple of years. And in many cases, it's coming from some of the most unlikely of individuals. Right. Susan Bones, who expected her to be somebody, who throws out the fact that Harry can produce a full corporeal Patronus.

[Eric]

He doesn't even know her. Like some stranger is like, hey, he can do this really cool thing, you know, we're seeing.

[Andrew]

And this is a good example of inter house unity. We've been hoping to see this. We were talking about this a few weeks ago.

[Micah]

Totally. And for the Hufflefpuffs, there are questions about Cedric, and I think that that's only natural that his housemates would want to know what happened to him. And I can understand Harry maybe getting a little angry with that. But these are people who clearly believe Harry on some level, otherwise they wouldn't be here. And they want to learn from him. They want to be able to learn defense against the Dark arts.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

They see the need.

[Laura]

Yeah. And also, I agree, Micah, their curiosity is natural. Like, they spent the entire summer being fed this BS narrative that Dumbledore is losing his mind and that Harry's crazy and making everything up. And it's very clear from Harry's demeanor at school that he's calling BS on all of that. So they're coming to him and saying, okay, well, can we hear your side then? Because we've only heard their side. Now, that doesn't mean it's Harry's job to give that to them. But I also don't think it's a sin for them to be curious, for them to want to know. Okay, well then what happened?

[Andrew]

Harry should have started a podcast story.

[Laura]

Episode that was the answer to everything.

[Eric]

Between this and the Rita Skeeter tell all interview that Harry eventually gives. That's his true, like, clapback. That's his true. And Hermione also completely arranges that. I mean, Hermione's the goat, really.

[Laura]

Oh, listen, these two would have been dead, like, halfway through the first year if it weren't for her. I think that is well established.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

You know, and Another thought I had is Harry's. He wants to be mad at Hermione in this moment because he's like, why didn't she anticipate that this would be the reason for people to come do this? And I get it. I understand the feeling. But I think she actually kind of did him a favor by breaking the dam with some of his peers outside of school with a smallish group of peers rather than continuing to allow the pressure to mount between Harry and the entire school. At least now he has a network of people outside of Ron and Hermione who he can confide in, relate to, spend time with.

[Eric]

She did her job. She just had to get them in the door.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Eric]

You know, like, get them to maybe see maybe what's going on. And then the event unfolded naturally because they do have a common enemy. They have a common purpose. And even though he's very against the idea at this juncture of telling them more about Cedric or reliving his trauma he ultimately sees that communicating with them about his. What he can offer is how to break through this bubble that they're all in.

[Micah]

Yeah. I think that we could ask the question whether or not Hermione could have prepared Harry more for this moment. I don't really think it's her responsibility to do that. And I don't think she could have anticipated all of the different questions or topics of conversation. She could have guessed probably that Cedric would come up. But a lot of the other things that are talked about, you know, they need to hear from Harry. In order for Harry to be validated in their mind he needs to sell them. Why should we join Dumbledore's army now? There's clearly a desire on their part, otherwise they wouldn't be there. But I still think part of it is Harry needs to close the deal.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah. It just takes Harry a minute to realize that. I think once he does, it all works out.

[Micah]

And Laura, you didn't think that Hermione was maybe even prepared fully for this moment?

[Laura]

No, I really don't think she was even kind of referring back to what I said before about Hermione's kind of out of her element here with what she's doing. She's never broken the rules in this way before. And actually, I want to give a shout out to Michelle in our Discord who said she's just a rookie rule breaker and it's her first time. She still got it done. And I have to agree, there's a.

[Eric]

There's a limit to how much preparedness you're going to have ever. Ever. But also I do feel the need to point out she's not breaking the rules. She checked like this. This strictly isn't illegal. It's not.

[Laura]

Yeah, she's not technically breaking the rules.

[Eric]

Again, she checked.

[Laura]

I know, but she also, she is capable of reading between the lines and understanding what new rules will get put in place if they are caught doing what they're doing.

[Eric]

Can you imagine if earlier in the series a couple of students from all the houses put together a study group for Potions to improve over Snape's teaching of the subject. Like hey guys, let's all like this teacher is no good. Let's get good at Potions in in spite of him. What kind of effect that might have had were Snape to to find out. Because this is the same thing with Umbridge that they're doing. It's like let's help each other to all be better in this subject that we can't get the education through normal means.

[Micah]

But at least with Snape there's been a level of consistency. Whereas with Defense against the Dark Arts this is the first time where they're being told no, you need to follow the textbook versus doing something that is a little bit more hands on. Right?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And so that's just my thought on it. And I think this is a great moment for Harry because he's really channeling so much of what he learned from Lupin in his third year. Because if you think about what he likely learned in the first two years of Defense against the Dark Arts, it wasn't a whole lot of anything. He really learned what he learned from Lupin and maybe some from Bandai Fakey in his fourth year. But it's great to see him in this moment. Now putting pen to paper is a whole different ballgame. So I wanted to ask the group what would it have taken us to sign up for Dumbledore's Army? Now I understand this is the 90s, you know, you sign up for clubs on a piece of paper. But you just think about we were talking earlier, who's lurking around, you know, if somebody is to get hold of that piece of paper, everybody who's on it is going to be in deep doo doo.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's the handwritten sign up list that would be scaring me off. And I understand what a couple of the people at the meeting were hesitant about. And as we do learn later, Hermione, as bright as she is, kind of street smart actually in this sense. In this example, she does have a plan for this list and how it could punish any tattletales. That part is way too risky for me. It's not so much the Hogshead, but I'm also wondering if after the scene when Hermione goes to shop for a new quill that this is some sort of hint or foreshadowing that she had done something special with the quill and parchment. Because it just seems so random for her to shop for a new quill right after this meeting.

[Eric]

I really love that catch.

[Andrew]

What would it have taken you guys.

[Eric]

To be convinced I did sign up for, like, chain letters and all sorts of, like, I was just. I mean, my inbox. If you saw the number I'm staring at right now, it's just absolutely insane. I can't really get a handle on all of things I've willingly signed up for. So I haven't learned anything from spam and phishing in the 21st century. So does that answer your question?

[Andrew]

I guess.

[Micah]

So you were all in.

[Eric]

Basically, I'm all in a newsletter.

[Andrew]

Sign me up.

[Eric]

You want to give me 10% off?

[Andrew]

I'm ready to read without you.

[Micah]

Laura.

[Laura]

Yeah. If I. If I were to put myself in the shoes of being a student at this table, yeah, I totally would have signed. Especially at that point in my life. I was going to protests. I was very, very engaged. Yeah. I did not. I did not care about people knowing about the things that I believed in. But I will say there are probably some better ways that this could have been anonymized and still had the same effect. Like, could people have used their initials? Could people have like left a mark, like a fingerprint, like dip their finger in some ink and leave a fingerprint? And could it have had the same effect?

[Eric]

That seems even more scary though, if you have, like, something's going to take a sample of your essence, you know, like, rather than just quill and parchment. Quill and parchment at least is on a scene.

[Micah]

You could have used essence of Murtlap.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Or milk of whatever you talked about.

[Eric]

Don't eat it.

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Top tier hacker protection. Plus you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage. All for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime terms apply. I'm wondering, it would have been cool if the Quill could anonymize the names as they were written down. And then maybe Hermione being the owner of the Quill, is the only person who can actually see the real names. Something like that. Something Marauders map esque. Yeah, it's hidden away from prying eyes. That would have been cool. This reminds me, back in like fourth or fifth grade, I actually made a sign up form for my classmates to sign in which we all agreed that this other kid in my class, Anthony Worrell, was a little bully and he's got to stop that. It was like a, it was like a petition, like, Anthony's a bully. Somebody put an end to this. I think I presented it to the teacher or something. I still have this. My mom saved it. My parents got a kick out of it. But that, that was my like Dumbledore's army sign up for him. That was my act of rebellion.

[Eric]

It's effective and I think that we're more than likely, we're more likely to sign something if it's our peers in between our peers is. It does benefit them having a list, even if it's not magically binding, which it is. But because there are people they don't know there. Harry doesn't even know the Gryffindors that showed up here and that Cho brought her friend who doesn't have a name at this point. You know, there are a number of people that in order to get in touch with them again the same way they were gotten in touch with the first time, won't work. People overheard other people, et cetera, et cetera. So having their names really ultimately is the only way to keep track of who was here and who's going to be expecting an update.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, one person who will have no qualms about signing that piece of paper is Luna, who? Before we kind of wrap up the discussion here on the chapter and get to some odds and ends, I did want to Just talk about Luna versus Hermione because she really has no qualms at all about speaking her mind and standing up to Hermione. You know, I think she, Hermione doesn't realize it, of course, now in this moment, but so much of what she focuses on is the book smarts. And unless it's right in front of her and she can see it and she can prove it. Luna, on the other hand, you know, she has a bit more imagination. And I like how Luna is willing to challenge Hermione in this moment.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Do we agree with Luna that heliopaths exist?

[Laura]

Well, I mean, yes, but secondarily, do we agree with her assessment of Hermione?

[Andrew]

Well, it is, I agree with Micah. It is refreshing to see somebody push back against Hermione even if the information is not true. But everybody always just believes everything Hermione says, for the most part. And here's somebody who's just like staunchly disagreeing with her. It's like, oh, this is good fight. What was your question, Laura?

[Laura]

Sorry, I was just asking, do we agree with Luna? Do we think this is a valid criticism of Hermione?

[Eric]

I think specifically she says, what? You won't believe anything unless it's shoved right under your nose. Yeah, I think that's probably pretty fairly accurate.

[Andrew]

Yeah. If you think about how often she is reading anything under her nose is going to be a book, I think is the implication from Luna. So unless she reads it in a book, she ain't buying it.

[Eric]

And it's one of Hermione's greatest strengths because she's one of the most well read characters we have. And so you do need that from time to time.

[Laura]

Yeah. And it's just funny to see Hermione and Luna kind of find themselves in the same orbit because they have this one shared belief that the Ministry is corrupt and that Voldemort is back, but they agree on absolutely nothing else.

[Eric]

That's all it takes.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

That is your common ground right there, saving the world.

[Laura]

Totally.

[Micah]

Well, and the truth is likely somewhere in the middle between those two. But just a proud Ravenclaw moment for me there with Luna. And I think that takes us to the end of this chapter. I know there's a little bit of romance conversation and who's dating who and who's interested or not interested in who anymore. But a few odds and ends to this chapter. We mentioned earlier, there's some eavesdropping going on in the Hogshead is usually the case there. Right, Andrew?

[Andrew]

Yeah, Mundungus is there. But I also. I was just thinking, we've kind of talked about this already so I won't repeat what I was thinking earlier in terms of who might be there. But it's kind of too bad that Sirius actually wasn't in Hogsmeade with them this time like he wanted to be because he may have been able to sniff out Mundungus or any other suspicious lurkers at the Hogshead.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And I wanted to call that out because Sirius does come up in this chapter. It's. Harry thinks about how serious wanted to come with them to Hogsmeade. He could have been helpful here.

[Eric]

Yeah. So I. I think, just for the record and to state it, Mundungus Fletcher is here. He's the hag that's mentioned, the tall hag that Harry thought could have been Umbridge. But that's not how Umbridge finds out about this meeting. Umbridge finds out from Willie Wittershins. You remember him, the exploding toilets guy. And he wants to reduce his sentence. And in order to do that, he trades the information pretty quickly, actually, with Umbridge because at the beginning of the next chapter, she knows. So, yeah, Willie Widdershin. Sorry, Willy, you're why we can't have nice things.

[Laura]

Does she actually reduce his sentence? Like, does she actually follow through on it?

[Eric]

I mean, maybe. Actually, I think it's read. I think they read in the Prophet later that he was.

[Andrew]

I also wanted to follow up on Harry's scars. In this chapter, Harry doubts whether the words that are etched on the back of his hand would ever fade entirely. That's a quote. And I wanted to call this out because as we discussed a couple weeks ago on the show if you go see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child you actually still see the scars on the back of Harry's hands. That's really impressive.

[Eric]

You gotta look for this, Laura, when you see it in Atlanta.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Front row seat.

[Laura]

So she can see it.

[Andrew]

I see it. She just yells, I see them. I see them.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Everybody else in the theater is like, what? See what?

[Micah]

Who's the perv with the binocular?

[Eric]

They need this scene.

[Andrew]

And then finally, just wanted to note that while the trio is walking around Hogsmeade they see Fred and George and Lee Jordan hanging outside of Zanko's Joke Shop. And this just made me wonder if. If they were doing some early research for Weasley's Wizard Wheezes or if this was some sort of foreshadowing. Because it's interesting. It's noted that they're in front of Zonkos of all places and sure they like Zonkos, but given what happens later. Yeah, I wonder if it's foreshadowing.

[Micah]

This made me think when you said this Andrew, about Hogwarts legacy and one of the Easter eggs outside of Zonkos is that every once in a while if you go past you'll see two red headed kids peering into the window.

[Andrew]

Oh, I didn't know that. I'll have to go look for that. That's cool.

[Eric]

I also think like Fred and George seen in the joke shop, they have this. I don't know if it's a probity probe, but they have something that they threaten to stick Zacharias with. I find it really interesting that they're using the Hogsmeade weekend for further R D and it's clear that they probably are disassembling these items to see how they work to figure out what makes them tick and figure out how they're going to improve upon them. It's classic entrepreneurial behavior and inventor behavior. I like to see it actually. I like to see any R and D Fred and George are doing that doesn't involve tricking children into taking things that are going to affect them.

[Micah]

All right, well it's now time for our version of MVP of the Week. And this has to do with our pen pal mvp. Thanks Andrew, for the suggestion. Who would we be most likely to be pen pals with? Who would we really enjoy writing on the regular?

[Andrew]

I think Charlie Weasley would be fun to write to regularly. He's in the broader wizarding world and it'd just be interesting to hear what he has to say about dragons. That's what I really want to talk to him about.

[Eric]

Is this because Hermione and Victor are still pen pals? This chapter, Is that where they stand?

[Andrew]

Yes, exactly. That's the inspiration for this segment.

[Eric]

So I would say my choice for pen pal in the wizarding world would be Nicholas Flamel because you'd have him for life, he'd be lifelong pen pal and he has a lot of personal experience that he could, could learn a lot from him. Relate. Yeah.

[Laura]

Until he. Until like what, 1995, I guess technically.

[Eric]

Yeah. I mean maybe if you were going to hogwarts in the 80s, it would, it would feel like.

[Laura]

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

[Micah]

I decided to go with Dobby. I feel like he would be fun to write back and forth with high energy. You could rely on the fact that he would actually respond to You. He has all the tea and what's going on inside of Hogwarts, and he can go anywhere. That's the best thing.

[Andrew]

That's a good one.

[Laura]

So this might surprise some of you, but I said Dumbledore. I actually think he would be an amazing albus. I feel like he would write really long, literary beautiful letters full of quirky anecdotes and funny stories about his journeys and his observations on life. I think it would be delightful.

[Andrew]

It's true, Laura. We'd be pen pal besties.

[Eric]

I really agree with that. The written form of Dumbledore is genius and is that very engaging personality that you would want to hear from for sure.

[Micah]

Well, I thought it was only appropriate that with us spending time inside the Hogshead, that I step behind the bar and brew all of you up a few drinks.

[Laura]

Whoa.

[Micah]

Ooh.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Micah]

It's up to you whether or not you want to keep it or do you want to pass it on to somebody else here on the panel?

[Andrew]

Oh, okay. I hope mine has Emma Watson's gin in it. Let's see.

[Micah]

Andrew, yours is called Thestral Tonic, and it is a mysterious dark gin with a smoky twist.

[Andrew]

Ooh, you know what? I'm glad you mentioned smoky, because I've been getting into Mezcal recently, so I think this sounds right up my alley. I'm keeping this. Thank you, Micah.

[Micah]

No problem.

[Andrew]

This looks so expensive. This is so nice of you.

[Micah]

Now, you could choose to make it with Emma Watson's gin if you so choose, or as long as you bring me the bottle, I'll use it when I.

[Andrew]

When I. I'm still looking for where to find that in America, so I'll. I'll let you know when I do find it.

[Micah]

Eric, yours is Gryffindor's Grog. Now, this is a bold spiced rum drink for the brave at heart.

[Eric]

Oh. Oh, we have such cold temperatures right now. I know a lot of the US does that. I could absolutely use some spiced rum. So I'm keeping it. Thank you.

[Andrew]

I thought. I thought Santa was here for a second. Eric.

[Eric]

No, you know, it's the slug horde thing.

[Andrew]

Oh ho.

[Eric]

Oh.

[Andrew]

Okay. Got it. Oh.

[Micah]

Oh, and then for Laura, I have the hogs breath. Now, don't be deterred by the name.

[Laura]

No, no, you can't scare me. Go on.

[Micah]

This is also a smoky drink. It's a smoky whiskey with a fiery kick.

[Laura]

Ooh. Heck yeah. I'm keeping that.

[Micah]

All right, well, that's three for three. And then for myself, I went with the Crippled cauldron. This is a fiery, bubbling mix of hot butterbeer with a splash of brandy.

[Eric]

Ooh.

[Andrew]

Okay, that sounds great. Awesome. These are creative. Micah, I think we gotta have you over for a party and watch you whip these up for us.

[Micah]

All right, let's do it. And to officially wrap up this chapter, we do have a question that we threw out on our links line. And the links line, for the folks who don't know is for Mugglecast listeners who are members of of our Patreon, specifically the Slug Club tier. And the question this week was, you know, with all the disguises going on at the Hogshead, if you had to disguise yourself as someone inside of the Hogshead, what would you dress up as?

[Andrew]

Fur said. How important is this eavesdropping I'm doing? If this is an all in situation, I'm learning how to become an animagus and turning myself into a cockroach. Considering the filth in that place, I'll fit right in.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. For sure. Emily says if the purpose is to eavesdrop, I think I'd take a page out of Slughorn's book and turn myself into furniture. Of course, there's the issue of someone potentially sitting on you, so I don't think I'd go for a chair or a barstool. So maybe a dusty table in the corner that no one would want to sit on.

[Andrew]

Ho ho ho. I love that answer.

[Micah]

Jen had a similar thought. I transfigure myself into a mica chair a la Slug Horn and Half Blood Prince. I'd make myself a particularly uncomfortable chair so nobody would want to sit on me and position myself in a dark corner within earshot of whomever I'm spying on.

[Andrew]

For listeners who don't know, the mica chair is a joke that was born out of another podcast we do, Millennial. We had one time observed that Micah loves going to that chair in the hotel room that nobody sits on. He loves that chair. So we started calling it the mica chair because only Micah sits in it as. As far as I know. So that's where that came from.

[Eric]

I think people underestimate how important having any furniture anywhere in a public space is going to get sat on, no matter how uncomfortable it is, no matter what. Like, if you get enough people in a place, they're going to want to sit or lean on.

[Andrew]

Yes, but those mica chairs are dirtier than the Hogshead floor. Like they. Those things do not get clean.

[Micah]

They're dirtier than the bed.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, because the bed sheets, at least those get washed. They're not throwing that chair through the wash.

[Eric]

I don't know. I treat my mica chairs pretty well when I stay in them.

[Andrew]

So do I, because I don't touch them. Mike. Eric brings Febreze into his hotel room.

[Eric]

Yeah, Febreze fabric scent. Yeah. I actually reupholster Jairs while I'm staying in hotel rooms. Yeah.

[Andrew]

It's very nice of you.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Might be a business in that. Darren says I would dress up as Aberforth using Polyjuice Potion. Since he has been there forever and doesn't get much notice. I think he would be. The easiest is to infiltrate a secret meeting at the Hogshead, since it's his pub.

[Andrew]

Jennifer said I would infiltrate the Hogshead itself and get a job there. That way it wouldn't be strange for me to be there all the time. I could gather intel easily by walking around the pub, hiding in plain sight. Good, good.

[Eric]

Love that. I bet Aberforth would probably hire somebody if they just walked up and said, need some help? Because he clearly does. Rachel added, I'd go fully undercover as a resident of Hogsmeade who frequents the Hogshead, so it wouldn't be unusual for me be there. I'd pretend to do a crossword, but I'd really be recording notes. Ooh. I love the idea that whatever notes you're taking, you'd have to fit into the little boxes of the crossword.

[Micah]

Megan says, I always enjoyed the Christmas tree. The trio moved in front of them in the Three Broomsticks. I like the idea of becoming a potted plant for elite spying abilities.

[Eric]

Love that.

[Laura]

I love that. Julianne says I would dress as a goat and get cozy with Aberforth. Julianne.

[Andrew]

All right.

[Micah]

We didn't really discuss that aspect of this chapter.

[Eric]

That's wholesome.

[Micah]

That's After Dark slash.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's not really this chapter anyway. It's not like in the movie where they enter and there's a goat and he, like, chases it off. That's not at all.

[Andrew]

Jenny said I would dress as a woman out for a day of shopping in Hogsmeade. I would have a bunch of bags and everyone would just think I stopped in for refreshments. It would have the added bonus of being able to have a recording device or quick quotes Quill in one of the bags to record whatever it is I'm eavesdropping on. Yes, good.

[Eric]

Yep. Clever. And Eleanor says, is this a one off or a longer Term situation. If it's one off, I'm going for a visitor to Hogsmeade. I'm going to be a bit dodgy. Mundungus Fletcher Vibes. I'll transfigure my face and act shifty. No one will suspect why I'm really there. They'll all think I'm selling dodgy. Good. If this is going to be a repeat, then I think I'm going to get a job as a bartender. I'll use the spell on Aberforth to make him think he's hired me. He's paying me peanuts but giving me room and board. He thinks it's a good deal for him. This one will be trickier. I need a cover story that I can keep up with, so I'll have to take some bases. In fact, I'm probably from some distance away and had been homeschooled instead of Hogwarts. A family that keeps themselves to themselves. But I've always wanted to know more about Wizarding Life, so I've come to Hogsmeade to experience it. Man. Eleanor did all the research, all the planning.

[Micah]

Yeah, a lot of great answers.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Listeners, we love this segment and yeah, like Micah said, seeing all the creativity out of everybody. And patrons get to participate in this benefit every [e-mail] mugglecast it's one of many benefits on the Patreon, so please do check it out. If you have any other feedback about today's discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that's recorded it on your phone to mugglecastmail.com and next week we'll discuss Order of the Phoenix Chapter 17, Educational Decree Number 24. Now it's time for Quizzage.

[Eric]

This week's Quizzage question. In the US of A. The College Board administers the SAT, which has a possible perfect score of 1600. What is the lowest score possible to receive on the sat? This is if you fill out your name and nothing else you can get a 400. That is the correct answer. 400 is the lowest score on the SAT. 60% of people who submitted the correct answer said they didn't look it up. So that's pretty smart. I bet they all scored more than a 400. And I hope they're not speaking from personal experience. But this week's winners are as follows. Buff Daddy, Krista, Ethan, the Ravenclaw from Dublin. Who wants to know what happens to Grop for a year? Lady Hermione Lookalike, Shadow of the Hedgehog. Or no Shadow the Hedgehog, the Hungry Hungry. Hufflepuff the number of people that are on crutches at my school is bad. It's four currently and all of them have knee injuries. Guys, my school is falling apart and.

[Andrew]

Tofu Tom sir, madam, we are not the right person to contact about your school falling apart. So please reach out to your school administrators.

[Micah]

Reach out to Dumbledore. He knows about schools falling apart.

[Eric]

Yeah. Next week's Quizzage question. In the mid 20th century United Kingdom, pint glasses were placed placed. What type of drinking vessel commonly made of glass, ceramic or pewter. So it's a little bit of a UK pub question. Submit your answer to us on the Mugglecast website mugglecast.comquizzic or if you're on the Mugglecast website, maybe checking out transcripts or our Wall of Fame Must Listens pages. Just click on Quizzic from the main nav.

[Andrew]

Micah's totally cheating right now. I just watched Copy copy the question. He probably pasted it into Google.

[Eric]

You're asking the answer right now, but.

[Micah]

I'm allowed to say whether or not I looked it up, am I not?

[Eric]

Eric yes, that's a yeah, you're right. People can cheat miserably by just saying that they did.

[Andrew]

Check out our other weekly podcasts, what the Hype and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk from the four of us. In our latest episode of what the Hype, Pam and Micah reviewed the final season of Cobra Kai. And then over on Millennial, we're discussing the rise in concert ticket prices and why some Americans are heading overseas to see their favorites this summer. These shows are brought to you by Muggles like you. Listener support is the only reason we've been able to podcast for 20 years, and there are several great ways to help us out. Visit mugglecastmerch.com to get official Mugglecast gear like the Mugglecast cap I am wearing tonight. I think it's on the site as mugglecast. Apple Podcast subscribers can join Mugglecast Gold, which gets you ad free and early releases of the show, plus two bonus episodes every month. And for those benefits and more, [e-mail] mugglecast and in addition to what I just shared, you'll get live streams, links, line access, physical gifts, a personal video message from one of the four of us, access to our Facebook and Discord communities, and lots more. So thank you everybody who supports us. Again, we could not do this without you. And as for other ways to help us out if you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, please owl a friend about the show and cast a five star review in your favorite podcast app. Lastly, visit mugglecast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes, and lots more. Thanks everybody for listening. Cheers. Prost. I'm Andrew Prost.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Laura]

Micah.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Eric]

Micah's already starting to forgot to say.

[Andrew]

And I'm Micah.

[Micah]

No, I did say it. I was on mute.

[Laura]

You were on mute. Oh, and I'm Laura.

[Eric]

Bye everyone.

[Micah]

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[Andrew]

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[Micah]

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[Eric]

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