The Harry Potter TV Show Reveals First Looks and More!

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast
Episode Title: The Harry Potter TV Show Reveals First Looks and More!
Release Date: July 22, 2025

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Introduction to the Harry Potter TV Show

In this electrifying episode of MuggleCast, hosts Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Laura dive deep into the latest updates surrounding the highly anticipated Harry Potter TV show. Transitioning from their ongoing chapter-by-chapter re-read of the original seven books, the quartet shifts focus to the groundbreaking television adaptation, providing fans with a wealth of information and thoughtful analysis.

First Look: Dominic McLaughlin as Harry Potter

The episode kicks off with a discussion about the first promotional image released by Warner Brothers, showcasing Dominic McLaughlin in the role of Harry Potter.

Andrew [06:23]: "This is Dominic holding a director's clapboard. And we see here, this is episode one, scene one. Interesting."

The hosts express mixed feelings about Dominic's portrayal, noting his resemblance to Daniel Radcliffe, particularly in his eye color.

Laura [04:24]: "He looks more like Dan Radcliffe than Dan Radcliffe."

Despite some initial skepticism, the hosts acknowledge the nostalgic charm Dominic brings to the character, emphasizing his endearing appearance that aligns with their childhood memories of Harry Potter.

Casting Nick Frost as Hagrid

A significant portion of the episode is devoted to the casting of Nick Frost as Rubeus Hagrid. The hosts scrutinize the first official image, comparing Frost's appearance to Robbie Coltrane's iconic portrayal.

Micah [12:33]: "He looks too much like Robbie Coltrane's Hagrid in my opinion."

While some express concerns over the lack of differentiation from the beloved original, others remain optimistic about Frost's ability to bring a fresh dynamic to the character.

Eric [13:09]: "I think we're gonna see this with Hogwarts. But you know, Nick Frost falls into that category where they do seem to have employed the same makeup person who did Robbie Coltrane to put the beard and everything on."

The discussion delves into potential creative approaches, such as camera angles and makeup techniques, to distinguish Frost's Hagrid from the previous iteration.

Filming Schedule and Production Insights

The hosts reveal that filming officially began on July 14, 2025, marking the start of an ambitious 8 to 10-year project.

Andrew [05:19]: "Warner Brothers has called this an 8 to 10-year project. We're going to be looking at this photo in 8 to 10 years from now being like, oh, my God, where did the time go?"

They also share insights from Production Weekly, highlighting the simultaneous filming of "Sorcerer's Stone" and "Chamber of Secrets" to manage the actors' aging process effectively.

Andrew [08:37]: "We did learn this week that seasons one and two, so in theory, Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets will film back to back."

Casting Announcements and Expectations

Excitement builds as the episode covers recent casting announcements, including Rory Wilmot as Neville Longbottom, Amos Kitson as Dudley Dursley, Louise Brealey as Madam Hooch, and Anson Lesser as Garrick Ollivander.

Andrew [09:49]: "Warner Brothers also announced that the series is arriving in 2027."

The hosts speculate on the implications of these casting choices, particularly focusing on the introduction of new canon details, such as Madam Hooch's first name, "Rolanda."

Eric [10:42]: "That's what I love the most about this series. It can remind me of things that I never knew before."

Discussion on Show Release Date and Future First Looks

With the anticipated release date set for early 2027, the hosts express eagerness for the series to commence, hoping for a prompt start given the two-year wait from the current date of July 2025.

Andrew [07:10]: "Hopefully, it's the start. 2027, because it's currently July 2025. If we have to wait two years for this, that seems like overkill."

They anticipate a steady stream of official looks in the coming weeks, aiming to stay ahead of paparazzi leaks and maintain momentum among the fanbase.

Listener Engagement: Muggle Mail Segment

The episode features an engaging Muggle Mail segment where listeners submit voicemails and emails discussing various aspects of the Harry Potter series. Topics range from character development theories to plot hole analyses.

Example Topics Discussed:

1. Sirius's Innocence and the Prophecy ([23:19] - [24:19])

   • A listener questions why Harry didn't use the Pensieve to clear Sirius's name and prove Voldemort's return, critiquing Dumbledore's decisions.

2. Snape's Worst Memory ([24:48] - [29:20])

   • Discussion on Snape's portrayal and his intentions during Occlumency lessons, exploring whether Snape deliberately exposed Harry to his memories.

3. Grup's Treatment by Hagrid ([30:00] - [32:10])

   • A listener critiques Hagrid's decision to entrust 15-year-olds with handling Grop, arguing it was irresponsible and dangerous.

4. Character Career Choices ([32:13] - [38:03])

   • Analyzing the career paths of main characters post-series, questioning whether choices like Harry becoming an Auror align with his personality and experiences.

5. Marauders' Bullying of Snape ([63:34] - [64:59])

   • Comparing the Marauders' antics with Death Eaters' behavior, questioning the ethical implications of their actions towards Snape.

6. Racism and Prejudice in the Series ([65:00] - [67:21])

   • Addressing instances of racism and intersectionality in the books, pondering how the TV show might handle these sensitive topics.

7. Magical Security Measures ([67:21] - [68:03])

   • A listener questions the Ministry's security protocols, particularly regarding Voldemort's access to the prophecy.

Conclusion and Future Plans

Wrapping up, the hosts reiterate their excitement for the ongoing TV series and commit to providing comprehensive coverage in the future. They encourage listeners to support the podcast through memberships, merchandise, and sharing with friends.

Andrew [19:13]: "So everyone stick with MuggleCast for continuing coverage of the Harry Potter TV show. Like I said, we are in it now. It's exciting to see it finally underway."

The episode concludes with heartfelt messages from listeners, showcasing the vibrant and dedicated Harry Potter community that MuggleCast serves.

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Notable Quotes:

• Andrew at [06:23]: "This is Dominic holding a director's clapboard. And we see here, this is episode one, scene one. Interesting."
• Laura at [04:24]: "He looks more like Dan Radcliffe than Dan Radcliffe."
• Micah at [12:33]: "He looks too much like Robbie Coltrane's Hagrid in my opinion."
• Eric at [13:09]: "But that had some big makeup person who did Robbie Coltrane to put the beard and everything on."
• Andrew at [05:19]: "We're going to be looking at this photo in 8 to 10 years from now being like, oh, my God, where did the time go?"

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of MuggleCast masterfully blends the excitement of new TV show announcements with in-depth analyses of beloved characters and plot points. By incorporating listener feedback through the Muggle Mail segment, the hosts foster a sense of community and engagement, making the podcast an indispensable companion for Harry Potter aficionados eagerly awaiting the television adaptation.

Transcript

[Laura]

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[Eric]

In time for this class.

[Laura]

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[Eric]

Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Laura]

And breathe.

[Andrew]

Oh, sorry.

[Laura]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[Eric]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Laura]

1-800-Contacts on WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Andrew]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Laura]

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[Laura]

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[Andrew]

Eligibility vary by state. Welcome to mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And we are your Harry Potter friends talking about the books, the movies and the upcoming TV show. We'll pay a lot of attention to that this week. So make sure you press that follow button in your favorite podcast app and you will never miss an episode with your Potter people. And this week I actually lied accidentally at the end of last week's episode. It's not another chapter by chapter episode of the show. Sorry about that. We have a Muggle mail episode for everybody and like I said, we're gonna be talking about the Harry Potter TV show.

[Micah]

You know who feels sorry, Andrew? Most of all, I feel sorry because I was coming back from a work trip and I didn't anticipate having to plan an episode because I didn't think it was a muggle mail episode because you had said at the end of last week's episode that we were doing the next chapter. So I get back at 2am on Tuesday morning and like, oh man, I have to put Together a Muggle mail episode. But luckily the bag had been filling.

[Eric]

Up and so I was gonn. So instead, Micah wrote all of today's emails. Actually, I did.

[Micah]

It was easier than opening courtesy of ChatGPT.

[Laura]

Oh, you're not supposed to admit that part, Micah.

[Andrew]

But I did feel bad, Micah, that I kind of messed with you. So I did flesh out this full TV show discussion.

[Micah]

It was great seeing you though, by the way.

[Andrew]

It was good seeing you too. You've. You came to Vegas. I saw Eric here in Vegas too, a couple weeks ago. I've collected two out of three. There's one more Pokemon to go. It's the Squirtle over here. Laura, it's me.

[Laura]

Oh, and that's my favorite starter Pokemon.

[Eric]

Oh, really?

[Andrew]

No, I. I was gonna say I should have guessed Bulbasaur because you're wearing green today.

[Laura]

Oh, no. I mean, that's just my favorite color. But I think you could probably guess Squirtle is my favorite starter Pokemon because it is in my PlayStation Network username. That's probably where you got it from.

[Andrew]

Yeah, deep in my head, that came out. Yeah. Although Eric is dressed as Squirtle today.

[Eric]

It's true. I'm wearing a blue shirt today, but that's okay. And nobody is Charizard or Charmander.

[Andrew]

But anyway, it's been a very busy week in the world of the Harry Potter TV show. Filming officially began on Monday, July 14, and Warner Brothers released a first look at Dominic McLaughlin as Harry Potter himself. I think everybody looking forward to this went, oh, and he looks like Dan Radcliffe, you know, when he started. It's a cute photo.

[Eric]

Well, he does have the same color eyes as Dan Radcliffe, which is to say, not the same color of eyes as Lily Potter or Harry in the books, but that's it.

[Andrew]

I'm out.

[Eric]

I know.

[Andrew]

Get this.

[Eric]

I know. The negativity rolls on. I've said what I have seen in comparison, and this makes sense to me is the early drawings of Harry Potter, which I think were largely done by Mary Grand Prix. He looks like those in the same way that 11 or 10 year old Dan Radcliffe looked like those. And it feels altogether similar. Nostalgic tugs at your heartstrings. He just looks like a cute kid. He's a kid you want to protect at all costs and see succeed, so good for him.

[Laura]

Yeah, he does look very cute. It's funny because I don't think back in the heyday of casting rumors and first looks during the movies, I don't think we would have described Anyone that way because we were close in age to the actors, but now it's just like, oh, he's such a cute little kid. Someone has to protect him at all costs. And he looks great. I actually saw a funny comment that was like, he looks more like Dan Radcliffe than Dan Radcliffe.

[Eric]

Interesting.

[Andrew]

Yeah. It's kind of surreal to see this, too. Right here is a new person stepping into this role. And of course, we've seen people portray Harry Potter through the cursed child, but this is a massive new undertaking. Warner Brothers has called this an 8 to 10 year project. We're going to be looking at this photo in 8 to 10 years from now being like, oh, my God, where did the time go? It's going to be a completely different child eight to ten years from now. It's kind of fascinating.

[Laura]

And then we can look back on our photos and the video evidence of us eight to 10 years from now and really make ourselves feel terrible.

[Eric]

That's right. Look at us now before we all go gray.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Oh, it's already started, Eric. For me, at least.

[Eric]

No, honestly, I'm hiding a few things.

[Micah]

We age like fine wine.

[Andrew]

We do.

[Eric]

It's true.

[Micah]

But is the scar there, though? I'm trying to.

[Andrew]

It is. Yeah.

[Micah]

It's not as overwhelming as Dan Radcliffe's.

[Andrew]

Well, and that's okay.

[Eric]

Right?

[Andrew]

It doesn't need that. Hit you over the.

[Eric]

Well, what it is, is you're gonna be staring at this scar for, like, eight hours instead of two and a half. So it had to be a little bit more. Right.

[Andrew]

Slow and steady scar exposure is more palatable here.

[Eric]

Plus maybe it gets more noticeable as you go on.

[Laura]

Yeah. I also feel like it's more book accurate to the way the scar is described. I feel like in the movies, they really leaned in on making it a perfect lightning bolt. It was too perfect to have worked. But this, I think, is. Is more what I imagined when I was reading and what you would expect.

[Andrew]

A scar to look like after, like, 10 years. Think of ourselves when we have a scar. You know, it's gonna look more like this. So. So that's good.

[Eric]

Well, I'm still going for the Mary Grand Prix goblet of fire cover accurate canon scar where it's right in the middle of his forehead.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's. That's the world to me.

[Eric]

Honestly, this is the best book cover. Like, Harry looks genuinely cute, but the scar, the middle of his forehead right here.

[Andrew]

So Dominic is holding a director's clapboard. And we see here. This is episode one, scene one. Interesting. But the director, Mark Milad, he has some big credits under his belt. He was a producer on HBO Succession. He directed six episodes of Game of Thrones. He directed episode two of the Last of Us, Season two. You all remember that one?

[Eric]

Huge.

[Andrew]

Through the Valley. Yeah, yeah. That's the movie the Menu, which, coincidentally enough, starred Ralph Fiennes. Great movie. It's not what you expect. Just warning to everybody who watches it. We knew he was tied to Harry Potter. We didn't know he was going to be directing Episode one. So that's a little news as well. Warner Brothers also announced that the series is arriving in 2027. You know, they had been saying 2026. Then it was like, 2026, 2027. Now it's 2027. Hopefully it's the start. 2027, because it's currently July 2025. If we have to wait two years for this, that seems like overkill. So I would think early 2027 is when we're going to be seeing the series.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, especially because we're looking at Dominic here. But two years from now, he could look totally different when he's doing press for Sorcerer Stone.

[Andrew]

I didn't think about that.

[Eric]

That's actually quite funny. Yeah.

[Andrew]

And on a related note, we did learn this week that seasons one and two, so in theory, Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets will film back to back. That is, according to Production Weekly, an industry trade publication. And we've speculated they might do this type of thing because the kids, to your point, Maika, are going to be growing up fast, and we don't want too much whiplash in between seasons like we have seen with Stranger Things.

[Eric]

Yeah. And also this. That news in particular about them filming back to back didn't surprise me because I remember hearing that for Chamber of Secrets, the movie, they filmed pretty much the week that the first movie opened. So it was like that quick turnaround, but that still was such a time difference that we do have the pronounced, like, you know, Dan went through puberty between movies one and two, basically, and had a totally different voice. So I think they're trying to keep that as smooth as possible. You know, the perceived aging. And then once they're teenagers, it's like, okay, 13 looks like 14, but 14 doesn't look like 11.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Yeah. Well, and the other big piece that would have clued us in on that is that they cast Lucius Malfoy, who is not in Sorcerer's Stone, and Fudge, too.

[Andrew]

And Fudge and that actor actually confirmed there's been a Lot of news this week. That actor also confirmed that he is going to be in season one. So what does that mean exactly? We don't know, but we'll see. Also on Monday, we got four new cast members. Rory Wilmot will play Neville Longbottom. Amos Kitson will play Dudley Dursley, Louise Brealey will play Madame Hooch, and Anson Lesser will play Garrick Ollivander. Takeaway. I've seen Neville back. You're playing Neville. Very cute kid. Other than that, they're all cute.

[Eric]

Especially. I'll check out Garrick Ollivander. The big news for me, and I wasn't expecting the TV show to invent new canon or reveal new canon this early, but I do not recall Madam Hooch's first name being Rolanda.

[Laura]

Yes, I think that's right.

[Andrew]

Okay, it is funny you say that, Eric, because I was like, wait, we're talking about Madam Hooch, right?

[Eric]

When you say Rolanda, you highlighted it, right? You knew exactly where I was going with this. But wait, okay, so, Laura, if it rings a bell, that means, darn it. It was probably from somewhere. But it's not in the books, surely.

[Laura]

Yeah, I don't think that it was in the books. It might have been a Pottermore thing.

[Eric]

Rolanda Hooch. Okay, my wife is correcting me in real time. Meg says Rolanda is known. All right, well, it's news to me. That's what I love the most about this series. It can remind me of things that I never knew before.

[Micah]

I think a lot of people will know Anton Lesser from Game of Thrones. He played Qyburn, and it'd be very interesting to see him go from a role where he was doing these illegal experiments in service to Cersei Lannister to being the famous wand maker.

[Eric]

Equally creepy, though Wizarding World, as we know, Harry is unnerved by him a little bit.

[Micah]

Well, that was John Hurt's portrayal. I feel like it's funny. I watched the movie Sorcerer's Stone on the way back from Vegas on the flight, and he does have a creepiness factor to him when it's Harry.

[Eric]

Like, Harry doesn't know whether he feels comfortable with Ollivander in the book, saying that Voldemort did great things. He's like, okay, thanks for the wand. Bye.

[Andrew]

Also, Anton Lesser has had a recurring role in andor very popular Star wars series. People probably recognize him from there as well.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Well, the next day we got our first look at Nick Frost as Head Grid. So two days in a row, they Released, let's call them official looks at these actors in these roles. Any thoughts on him? He looks like Hagrid.

[Micah]

He. That's the problem. He looks too much like Robbie Coltrane's Hagrid in my opinion. I think they have to change it up a little bit. I, I think this is a little lacking of creativity.

[Andrew]

What about this nice button down shirt?

[Micah]

I thought that was never go button down.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I honestly thought this was pretty nice when I looked at it.

[Micah]

I'm trying to throw a little, you know, controversy into this, you know, like change the light instead of us being, oh look, Dominic's so cute and look at all this other ca. You know, like he looks great. Yes. But I do feel like he's a little too much Robbie Coltrane.

[Eric]

I feel like there's gonna be these instances where the movie version was particularly book accurate so that if this show also wants to be book accurate, it's gonna tread on the movie a little. I bet we're gonna see this with Hogwarts. But you know, Nick Frost, I would say falls into that category where they do seem to have employed, you know, the same makeup person who did Robbie Coltrane to put, you know, the beard and everything on. He does kind of look like Nick Frost superimposed onto Robbie Coltrane's Hagrid. I would agree with that.

[Laura]

I do wonder if, you know, this first look is merely just that, a first look. It's just him in costume without any of the camera tricks they are going to employ to make Hagrid look as massive as we expect.

[Eric]

Hagrid looks pretty tall in this photo, Laura. His head's almost cut off by the whole frame.

[Andrew]

No, but yeah, I do agree. I think they are shooting him from a slightly lower angle which is an interesting juxtaposition compared to that one of Dominic because they're definitely shooting down. But I see your point, Laura.

[Laura]

Yeah. And I also will say, I mean, I'll reserve judgment until we see some actual footage. But I do feel like his. And maybe this is just me being like chronically obsessed with like hair styling products and stuff. I feel like his hair texture is kind of different. I feel like Robbie Coltrane's Hagrid had very, just bushy hair. It almost looks like his beard has some like volume, more curliness, some more like dreadlocks in it almost. So I feel like they could, I feel like they could differentiate this. But I have seen people, I've seen some takes that people don't think he looks unkempt enough. Well, they don't think he looks bulky enough for Hagrid.

[Andrew]

Maybe he's born with it. Maybe it's rubeline in his hair.

[Eric]

It does look treated. His beard looks treated.

[Micah]

I want motorbike Hagrid.

[Laura]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Well, okay. But he.

[Micah]

It's.

[Andrew]

They're probably going for a younger Hagrid too, right? So there's that. They've been casting younger. It seems to. And this is something that surprises me. This photo and the photo of Dominic as Harry. These are not like stills from. They're not actual scenes. It's like they just got out of their trailers and surprise, here's a camera. It's that type of thing. It surprises me that they're releasing these on the as first looks. On the other hand, I think think they're doing it because they're afraid of paparazzi photos getting out first. And to that point, we did get some paparazzi photos on Thursday.

[Eric]

I love the Dursleys, baby.

[Micah]

Is this from how to Catch a Predator?

[Eric]

The stache is very. That.

[Andrew]

That is a. That is, yeah. And the Dursleys are no longer traditional hot, but they still look good.

[Eric]

But their traditional book, Petunia's Blonde. Who called it. Who called it a couple episodes ago, baby. I was like, what if Petunia is blonde?

[Andrew]

I want those glasses that both of them have. Those are looks.

[Eric]

They're very 90s.

[Laura]

I just appreciate that they're leaning into the 90s of it all because you can really see that in, I mean, the hairstyles and the glasses and the clothes. Yeah, it's really nice to see that they're.

[Andrew]

Wow, look at that.

[Laura]

They're being like, period accurate.

[Andrew]

Look at Dudley. He's wearing a track shoe out of.

[Micah]

An episode of Saved by the Bell.

[Andrew]

This looked to me like an outfit that a crew member at Space Mountain at Disney would wear.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. Like very future, very 90s. Well, there's another one of Dudley and I assume Piers. They're both in like little tracksuits, so that's really cool.

[Andrew]

Isn't that interesting?

[Eric]

Yeah, I'm glad to see that there is like a Piers character at the zoo. There was. There was one that isn't part of this Reddit where they're outside an enclosure. I think it's a penguin enclosure or something.

[Andrew]

Oh, really?

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so it's nice to see that those little moments that I think we were all okay with not being 100% adapted into the film still nevertheless are making into the TV show. This is already confirmation of that. Like the first week that we see any footage, we can already pretty well prove that they're going to be more accurate than the movies were, which is great.

[Andrew]

Yeah. This is already feeling refreshing to me. Right. Because like, I know we were just saying Hagrid maybe looks a little too similar, but you got, you gotta, you gotta carry some things over because you don't want to make it too jarring of a change. It's gonna really throw people off. They're gonna have to walk a delicate line.

[Eric]

I think I want to, I want to say on the record too, I don't have any qualms or concerns about Nick Frost acting as heck.

[Andrew]

Oh, me neither.

[Eric]

He's gonna be great. You know, like, it's going to be great. We pick about the look or whatever, but, you know, ultimately it's going to be a joy and a half to watch.

[Andrew]

There was also a report today that the show will be filming at Hemel Hempstead School. This is a primary school. So now there's speculation that St. Gregory's Primary School, where Harry originally went, will be appearing in the show as well.

[Eric]

Wow. So they're really doing the thing properly. Like the only thing that happens at that school is he finds himself on the roof.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Laura]

Oh, man, it would be so cool if we got to see some of those, you know, off screen moments that we just get to hear about Harry recollecting. Yeah, that's a huge way that this show can differentiate itself.

[Andrew]

That would be great character development for Harry. Getting more of his pre Euro Wizard.

[Eric]

Harry life and already more substantial flashbacks than the last four Harry Potter films.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Andrew]

So, y', all, we are in it now. This is happening. The show has started, the news is coming quick. I'm going to be curious to see how many of these first looks they unveil over the next few weeks. Because like I said, I think they want to stay ahead of these paparazzi photos.

[Micah]

Well, that's, that's the other piece that I was going to say too, is that we live in a totally different world now where information can just get out so much more readily. Where.

[Laura]

Right.

[Micah]

It happened at times when the movies were filming back in the early 2000s, but nothing like what exists today with social media. So the production team is going to have to do a good job and the PR team is going to have to do an even better job of staying on top of those things. But I do like one thing that Camille said in the Discord. If Dudley doesn't have any Chicago Bulls gear, we riot. Because you know the long standing joke is that throughout all the Harry Potter series existing in the 90s there wasn't one mention of the Chicago Bulls 6 NBA championship. So like there has to be a shot at some point of Dudley and Bull's gear.

[Andrew]

So everyone stick with Mugglecast for continuing coverage of the Harry Potter TV show. Like I said, we are in it now. It's exciting to see it finally underway. We are fully committed to covering the Harry Potter TV show over the next couple years and beyond. So help us go on this journey with you. We invite you to become a member of our [e-mail] Mugglecast by financially supporting us. For as little as $5 a month. You can get instant access to two bonus Mugglecast episodes every month. Plus you' ad free episodes, access to our recording studio, a personal video thank you message from one of the four Muggle casters, and a lot more. And in a new bonus mogul cast coming up later this week, we will be reminiscing over the craziest month in Harry Potter fandom history. July 2007. 18 years ago this month, when the song about that Phoenix movie and yes, Don't Let It Be July was my wizard rock song because it was going to be the end. July 2007, the order of the Phoenix movie and the Deathly Hallows book came out within 10 days of each other. Crazy time to be a member of the fandom. So we'll talk about what we were doing all those years ago. If you're looking for other ways to Support us, visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy official gear, leave us a review in your favorite podcast app, and tell a friend about our show. And you can visit mugglecast.com for quick access to all of this information, our contact form, and lots more. All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll jump into some voicemails.

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[Laura]

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[Micah]

This is going to be a fun mailbag episode. We got a number of different voicemail on a number of different topics and then our Muggle mail specifically. We have a wide range of topics there as well. But then we'll jump into order of the Phoenix specific feedback.

[Andrew]

This first one is from Zacharias, not Smith about Order of the Phoenix issues.

[Micah]

Hey y', all, it's Zacharias Knotsmith.

[Laura]

I wanted to bring light to one.

[Andrew]

Or two of my biggest issues with.

[Laura]

The entire series that just so happened to be resolved at the end of this book.

[Andrew]

Sirius's Innocence and Proof Voldemort is back.

[Eric]

The Pensive exists and I'm pretty sure.

[Laura]

Harry would willingly give over the memories.

[Andrew]

To clear his godfather's name and to.

[Laura]

Prove the Dark Lord has returned. Thanks for making my Mondays great. Here's to 700 more.

[Andrew]

Aw, thanks. Not Smith.

[Micah]

It's an excellent point. You know, Harry could easily give his memories over to be viewed in the pensive to clear Sirius's name to prove Voldemort has returned. But for some reason nobody thinks that that's a good idea. Shame on you, Dumbledore.

[Eric]

Well, it's, it's all about how they can convince themselves that it's not happening. Because if Harry were to give over his untainted memory, they would accuse him of making it up or Dumbledore of having influence over his memory or something like that. They would say fake news, fake memories and not believe it.

[Laura]

I agree. And in general, I mean they, they could use this. We've talked about this before. They could use this at all kinds of trial. They don't.

[Eric]

For whatever reason, it should honestly be like the first resort, because very few wizards are skilled enough to edit their memories in any such way. It's very obvious when Slughorn, a tenured professor, tries to do it. And so it seems foolproof.

[Andrew]

All right, next voicemail comes from Michelle about Snape's worst memory.

[Laura]

Hey y', all, my name's Michelle and I'm in Ravenclaw. I wanted to talk about my favorite book and my favorite chapter, Order of the Phoenix. Snape's worst memory. I was 15 years old when this book came out, so same age as Harry. I remember relating to a lot of moments with Harry in this book, especially in this chapter where he realizes his dad isn't perfect. I had that same feeling. Same age. Another point I wanted to bring up is Dumbledore had really good foresight in placing Harry with the Muggle family. I mean, for obvious reasons. But I also believe if Harry had grown up in a wizarding family, he would have been spoiled and rude and a bully like we see here in this chapter with his dad or with Draco. How Draco treats Harry. Speaking of Draco, I wanted to share my favorite. Draco Headcanon. He loves to make badges. For example, in the fourth book he made the Potterstink Cedric rules badge. And then during this book he made the Weasley is Our King badge. And how much do you want to bet for the Inquisitorial Squad? He asked Umbridge if he could make the badges for that too. Lastly, I'd love to have Julian on more as your guys guest. He brings so much to the conversation. I love this episode. I love you guys. Thanks again.

[Andrew]

We agree he's a great guy. Him and I were DMing after and he said he'd love to come back anytime. So we will definitely keep that in mind.

[Eric]

Michelle, he's great.

[Andrew]

Really.

[Micah]

I would like him to be on when I'm on too, if that's possible.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Micah]

You know, it'd be nice. I know he's. He's been a great co host in my absence.

[Eric]

Yeah, well, you know, as to what Michelle was saying, I wish there were a middle ground between leaving Harry with the Muggles who are going to abuse and neglect him and really just give him the worst childhood imaginable. And a wizarding family that's gonna spoil him and not make him like a whole person in some hypothetical way. Because Dumbledore seems fine with his decision. But I'm not. You know, there has to have been some kind of like the only idea that, that Harry turned out so good because he was deeply abused is problematic. Not that Michelle is saying that, but in that, I think in popular discourse, you know, kind of viewing it as there had to have been a wizarding family that would have been happy to take in the savior of the wizarding world.

[Laura]

Yeah, I think. Doesn't Dumbledore bring this up in chapter one of Sorcerer's Stone where he says he's been away from all that? Yeah, everyone will know his name. There'll probably be a Harry Potter day. And I agree that it could have played out to sort of like the opposite extreme where Harry could have maybe ended up being more like James. I guess it becomes a question of, like, is it nature? Is it nurture? But, yeah, it definitely sucks that Dumbledore felt like he had to choose between two extremes. Well, yeah, I mean, I was gonna say not even just neglect. I mean, outright abuse.

[Eric]

And yeah, the frying pan misses Harry by, like, inches when he's 11. Well, and I wonder, like. But by the time that Dumbledore drops Harry off, McGonagall's been watching them all day. She 100% has the measure of exactly who these people are. And Dumbledore still leaves him with. There were even some Muggles that wouldn't have abused Harry. It's really the baggage that Petunia has between her sister that Dumbledore knows especially about, by the way, that led him to believe, hey, it's fine. We'll just do this.

[Laura]

Yeah, there's also the family connection.

[Micah]

Is that what we were going with here? Yeah, the magical protection that's in place. He can't just be placed with anybody because there's a very real possibility that Voldemort is still out there. And if he was just. Just randomly hanging out with the Longbottoms or the Weasleys or another wizarding family, he would be at risk.

[Eric]

Dumbledore should have brought him to his house.

[Micah]

Well, there's that. I mean, I would say the next safest place for Harry. Harry could have grown up at Hogwarts.

[Andrew]

To the point about learning something critical about your parents later on, Michelle, that stood out to me as well. I think when we're children, we kind of look at. We put our parents on pedestals and we don't see any faults with them. But as you get older, as you live more life, you start seeing different types of people and you realize that your parents might not be as perfect as you thought they once were either. So definitely a relatable experience. All right, next voicemail comes from Angela about Grup.

[Laura]

Hi, My name is Angela. I'm known as Gwen Weasley on mni, when that existed. Proud Ravenclaw. Favorite book is Half Blood Prince. But now let's talk about Grop. So when Hagrid decided to take the children into the forest to meet his giant half brother, first things first. Why didn't he just pick them up and carry them? They were getting terribly damaged in slowing him down. He could have carried them. Secondly, this brother of his has been destroying him for months. What was going through his mind when he said, let's have the 15 year olds now deal with this? These people who were a third my size, I'm barely surviving it, but let's put it on the kids. What was he thinking?

[Micah]

He wasn't.

[Laura]

Yeah. Very good questions. Yeah.

[Andrew]

And we were talking about this a little bit too. Right. Probably after this voicemail came in. It's just insane to think that Hagrid would want to put 15 year olds in charge of taking care of Grop. It's irresponsible. It makes no sense. It's putting the kids and grop in danger. It's arguably putting the rest of the school in danger. If the kids mishandle grop, which of course they would. It's just such a messy situation. It's such a bad situation. Idea all around.

[Eric]

Yeah. Especially because Hagrid had not really made any inroads or successes to that point of training Grop literally at all. The fact that Hagrid couldn't even get himself out of harm's way and he's the closest to them. He thinks introducing the kids for one minute or five minutes is going to breed that level of familiarity that he has with Hagrid after six months. No, it's like you could say he's desperate and he is. But not only does that not like, excuse it, it also, there's no reason he needs to be desperate. He brought this whole situation on himself. So Hagrid having grow up here is really his own making. 100%. Every one of his problems is his fault.

[Andrew]

Second to last voicemail today comes from Karen.

[Laura]

Hey, knucklecast, this is Karen the Hufflepuff and I'm sending this message because on this reread of the Order of the Phoenix, I have been really struck by how much Harry feels drawn to teaching. We see him really looking forward to the DA lessons and planning the sessions really thoughtfully. And it just made me wonder why Harry became an Auror. Was it because he wanted to or was he pushed into it because of all of. Of his experience fighting Voldemort and the Death Eaters, he certainly has a tendency for saving people. So it doesn't seem completely out of the realm of possibility for him to be an Auror, but it's just something that I've been wondering about and then that thought led me to wonder about the other characters careers and whether we think each of them ended up in the career that makes the most sense. So for example, we know that Hermione is dedicated to making change, particularly around rights for house elves and other magical creatures. But is politics and becoming Minister for Magic the best career for her to do that? And we've certainly seen in the Muggle world that politicians can't always be relied upon to make changes that benefit the people. So anyway, I was partly inspired by a previous Muggle Mail episode where you resorted the Weasleys into different houses and I'm wondering if it might be fun to do something similar by discussing how well or how poorly various characters careers suit their interests and personalities. And if you could change characters careers, would you change them and what would you change them to? I'd love to hear your thoughts and thank you as always for all you do. Ooh, this is a really good question.

[Eric]

I love this question. Thank you Karen for sending it.

[Andrew]

I like Harry in the Auror role because as we've been joking, as Hermione brings up, he has a saving people thing and it's just in his heart to help others. So being an Auror makes sense. Now you could say being a teacher is also a way to help others. But Harry seems. Harry's a more adventurous type. He's a Gryffindor, he wants to be out there, he wants to be on the move.

[Eric]

So maybe he just wanted to get paid well yeah, instead of a teacher.

[Andrew]

Maybe he had enough of Hogwarts, he didn't want another second of that school. And all the security nightmares that exist.

[Eric]

Arian Neville are often compared to one another. Neville does teach so it's interesting to see Neville follow that path in lieu of Harry. I think you know, being an or we talked about this during Career advice but it's the only thing Harry ever thought of doing because literally like the only person that ever said to him you would be a good this that is you know, the guy who said you'd be a good Auror. I think that he understands exactly what made Lupin a great teacher. And so Harry too genuinely cares about people or gets to know people enough the way that Lupin would always know a little tidbit about his student to lift them up. So I think Harry has the qualities to become a really good teacher. As for what Ron should have been instead, or any of the other characters, like Hermione as Minister of Magic probably is like, spot on. But Ron. Yeah, I don't know. Doesn't he at one point help out with Fred and George's shop? Like, I think that's a pretty good fit for him.

[Laura]

He does. But he later becomes an Auror, Right?

[Eric]

Yeah. With Harry.

[Laura]

Yeah. So that always kind of surprised me a little bit. And I like Ron, I like his character, but I just don't know that we got to see the full character development that took him there.

[Eric]

What he should have done is followed in his father's footsteps, interfering with Muggle things by basically becoming a craftsman for new wizards chests sets. That would have been really. Because he's strategic. Right. This is the Ron character trait that died after book one. I'd love to see that kind of refound in his adult life or just.

[Micah]

Become a professional wizard chess player.

[Eric]

That would be like Queen's Gambit, but with ron. Yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

A5.

[Micah]

I tend to agree about Harry becoming the or. I think it's a little bit too much on the nose. It's something that he aspired to certainly while he was at Hogwarts, but he caught arguably the darkest wizard ever. So really, what else is there for him to do. Aspire to within his career? Yeah, I. I like the idea of him teaching. I. I feel like, as was pointed out by Karen, he does an amazing job leading Dumbledore's army at a very young age. And I think there would be something to the fact that he's the one that actually steps into the role that's finally. We'll talk about this a little later. Like, the curse is finally broken on the Defense against the Dark Arts position, and it's Harry who steps in to fill that role that Voldemort was never able to aspire to.

[Laura]

Yeah, I love that. I do tend to agree that Harry becoming an Auror really does feel a little too on the nose. I think I said when we were chatting about the career advice chapter that it kind of feels like Harry just chose that because he didn't know what else to pick, so he just picked what was familiar to him and what he's always done.

[Andrew]

Maybe he wanted to become an Auror so he could be within the Ministry so he could continue keeping an eye on them. And I know Hermione becomes the Minister for Magic, but maybe he doesn't trust the ministry and just wants to have some sort of hand in it.

[Laura]

It is kind of shocking. And this will be the last thing I say on this, to see the entire trio end up working for the ministry after the events of book seven. Because I would imagine that those events would create a lot of distrust for the ministry and that people, people wouldn't be super excited to work there.

[Andrew]

All right, well, final voicemail today is from Kayla. About us.

[Laura]

Hey, Mugglecast, I just wanted to tell y' all about how excited I am because my city that I live in is putting on a Harry Potter fair next weekend and I'm so excited to go. And it's going on on June 7, which, I mean, can you get a better date, like the 7th? Of course I'm gonna go. And I'm very proud to say that I'm going to be sporting all of my Hufflepuff gear. I have a bright yellow Hufflepuff shirt. I have a Hufflepuff purse. I even have Tonks's wand that I'm going to carry with me. And I bought a Muggle cast baseball hat because I'm going to listen to y' all the whole day. And I wanted to advertise that, hey, there's a Harry Potter podcast that you should listen to. And I'm also going to take my stuffed hedwig with me because she deserves to go. Anyway, love y' all and thanks for the podcast. Bye.

[Andrew]

We love you too, Kayla. That's great. Thanks for representing. I thought she was like ready to board the Hogwarts Express with the noise we are hearing in the background. I thought she was gonna be like, I'm wearing my Mugglecast hat to Hogwarts. Everybody representing. We'll take one more break today and then we'll open up the written mailbag. We'll be right back.

[Laura]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real.

[Andrew]

And so is the relief from Ebglis.

[Laura]

After an initial dosing phase, about 4.

[Andrew]

In 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch.

[Laura]

Relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year.

[Andrew]

With monthly dosing, EBGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat a torture. Adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that.

[Micah]

Is not well controlled with prescription therapies.

[Andrew]

Used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe.

[Eric]

Eye problems can occur.

[Andrew]

Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief?

[Laura]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Andrew]

Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan are back in Disney's Freakier Friday. Yes.

[Eric]

Yes. On August 8th, we switched bodies.

[Laura]

I didn't want to be a part of this family, and now I'm part of some dodgy family curse and I'm.

[Andrew]

The ultimate movie event of the summer arrives.

[Laura]

I think I just peed a little.

[Andrew]

Disney's Freakier Friday, in theaters August 8th. Get tickets now. Oh, this is cool.

[Eric]

Let's do it.

[Andrew]

Rated pg. Parental Guidance Suggested Time for a variety of different emails about recent episodes. I believe Micah is calling the segment potpourri. The first one is from Squib Matthew on Harry's obsession with Dumbledore. Hey y', all, is it me, or does Harry's obsession with Dumbledore seem odd? I get that he's the father figure he never had when he was growing up, but how much time do they ever spend together? If you add up all their moments together in the first five books, how long is it? Hours at most a day? Isn't it weird that in book five he's overwhelmed by the fact a man he'd maybe spent a day or two with over a half decade isn't looking at him him just wondering. Your thoughts, Squib Matthew.

[Laura]

I mean, maybe they haven't spent that much time together, but the time they've spent together has been pretty important. I mean, there's never been. I can't think of a time where Harry and Dumbledore had an exchange with that was anything less than noteworthy. Like they pop off the page for a reason.

[Eric]

They're critical too, like Harry. Harry is not. I reject the idea that Harry's obsessed with Dumbledore. Dumbledore has critical information that's necessary for Harry, and he's withholding it from him. The the whole reason that Harry is concerned that Dumbledore is not paying attention to him is because Dumbledore has the answers and is choosing not to divulge them. Answers that would give Harry a significant amount of peace of mind. So there's no peace in all of book five until Harry can actually be leveled with by Dumbledore. And in all the years prior, Dumbledore has held all the cards and routinely put Harry at risk. So I wouldn't say Harry is obsessed with him at all. I would say Dumbledore has put himself directly.

[Micah]

It's the other way around.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's right.

[Micah]

I would say too that it's not just that Dumbledore isn't looking at Harry, he is outright ignoring him. Like he is doing nothing to make contact with Harry, even when Harry is trying to make contact with him. And he isolates him to a point of Harry and Sirius own detriment by the end of this book. So yeah, I don't necessarily agree with the whole. He's only known him for a couple days in total. Dumbledore is a very important figure in Harry's life.

[Andrew]

Have you ever had any Hogwarts who has a plan to fight Baltimore? You know, it's not just any.

[Eric]

Their destinies intersect in no small way. And to Laura's point, like every conversation has been noteworthy. Like you ever have anybody give you the silent treatment? You ever try not to think about that person when they're giving you the silent treatment? It doesn't work. So this is. This explains Harry's behavior I think in book five, right?

[Micah]

150-Year-Old. Behaving like a five year old.

[Eric]

Yeah. Dumbledore. Gosh, grow up, man. Our next email comes from Jen. Hey y'. All, I've been thinking about something that you said earlier in this book and can't decide if it's stuck because it's so brilliant, my mind is blown, or if it's because I just want more of your thoughts to wrap my brain around it. This is tremendously kind. Y' all were talking about how Dumbledore used the Dada position as a signal that Voldemort was still alive because if he was dead, the curse would end. This is brilliant. Is that true? All those Egyptian curses Bill Breaks for living are cast by wizards long dead, right? Or do you think Dumbledore had some way to know the difference in the types of curses? You also briefly alluded to what exactly it was that was holding the curse there, but didn't stay on the topic long. So I want to bring you Back to that, too. Is it some part of the building, like the Dada classroom or some hidden object or just lazy writing by the author who hadn't established the rules yet? Thanks for your thoughts.

[Laura]

I think that last point is definitely a possibility because there are a few things about the way magic works in this world that we don't really get to understand why it works the way it does. We're just supposed to assume that it is the way it is.

[Eric]

I seem to remember talking about this and saying it wasn't like Voldemort uttered an incantation. There wasn't a specific spell that made this happen to the Dada position. But it was like a force or a will that comes out of somebody as powerful as Voldemort. Regarding the Egyptians, I feel like those curses were very strictly around, don't desecrate this to, you know. And so those could last for longer. They're less circumstantial. It's like we're going to cast something that lasts, that doesn't have any variables, except nobody walk in here. And those curses would last a lot longer than someone's own mortality. But something like Voldemort's constantly checking into that role. There's a hundred different ways somebody could fail in that role or be gone within a year. That's going to be the kind of magic that lasts only as long as the caster's lives. Life is my guess. Does that make sense?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

I'm pretty sure that the author had said that the curse was broken once Voldemort had died, which, thank God, right?

[Laura]

I think that's right.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah. And I. I think there could just be different types of curses. There's Egyptian curses that can last long after somebody has died. And then there's this type of curse where it's. It's there whether or not they're alive. It's just it. There's no one rule when it comes to curses.

[Eric]

I think it is a good thought, though, if you consider that there is magic around from thousands of years ago that's still active. That's cool.

[Laura]

Arista reached out to us about Rita Skeeter. They say, hey, guys, listening to your episode, keep your friends close and your Beatles closer currently. And I think it's important to note that Rita does not, in fact, turn over a new leaf. For one thing, it's Hermione, in Order of the Phoenix that asks Harry if he's ready to tell the public the truth. And in Deathly Hallows, Rita writes a whole book exposing dumbledore Granted, lots of things in there aren't untrue, but could have been revealed in a much softer way. Love the show. Yeah, I think that's. That's a good thing to bring up, actually. The Rita never, never really changes. Despite Hermione psychotically keeping her in a jar for two weeks, three weeks.

[Andrew]

And I'll take the blame for this one. It may have been me that says Rita turned a new leaf. I'm just thinking of that because I think of the video game Animal Crossing. New leaf. So I've liked using that. Phra. But let's just say that Rita behaves differently.

[Eric]

She has redemption. Yeah. Even if she reverts in Deathly Hallows to do the Dumbledore thing, that's obviously a very important part of the plot of book seven is that somebody uncovers all the lies Dumbledore told when he was alive because he's no longer alive. And somebody needs to give that information to the world. Why not Rita? But I do think that Rita has either a tendency now to think about things a second, whereas she normally would have just been her awful self in book four. Now she might think twice about it. Or at the very least, the Quibbler situation redeemed Rita. So if she went back to being awful afterwards, great. But I do see this still as a redemptive moment where she had the choice at least to turn over a new leaf.

[Laura]

You know what, though? I think that she did what she did in Deathly Hallows because the circumstances allowed it. Because, remember, Hermione threatened to expose her for being an illegal Animagus. But by the time you get to book seven, that almost doesn't matter anymore. That doesn't even rate on the top list of priorities. They got way bigger fish to fry. And I think she knew that and took advantage of it. I think she's an opportunist at the end of the day, 100%.

[Micah]

And I think the success that she did have from the Quibbler emboldened her her even more. That story and the stories she wrote about Harry re elevated her status and positioned her well enough to write what she did in Deathly Hallows. So even though there was good that came out of Harry's article with the Quibbler, there was also good that came out of it for Rita as well.

[Eric]

That's a good point.

[Micah]

All right, our next email is from Ollie on Harry's binding magical contract in Goblet of Fire. Hey, Mugglecast. This is Ollie Slytherin from Edinburgh, Scotland. My favorite Harry Potter book has always been Goblet of Fire, but there's something about it that's never sat well with me. The binding magical Contract. You know what I'm talking about. It just never made sense that it swept under the rug with no explanation given my headcanon is Dumbledore wanted Harry in the tournament, and not only that, but he asked Mad Eye Fakie to make it happen. Happen. This is how I think it played out. Voldi told Barty Crouch Jr. To make sure Harry is in the tournament, but when Barty Crouch Jr. Goes to Hogwarts as Mad Eye Fakie, he's surprised to find Dumbledore asking him to do the exact same thing.

[Andrew]

Just my luck.

[Micah]

Dumbledore has a long history of putting Harry in dangerous situations to test his abilities and prepare him for the journey ahead. And it seems to me that he wouldn't let the tournament go to waste. It's the perfect opportunity to put him to the test. To me, this explains why Dumbledore never goes into detail about the magical contract. It's all a big lie to get the other headmasters off his back. And why he never makes any serious attempt to find out who's responsible. Notably, Dumbledore asks Harry if he asked an older student to put his name in the goblet. Something Dumbledore knows full well isn't possible. It's all performative for the other people in the room. My bet is it made Fakey's job a lot easier throughout the year. And Dumbledore never suspected he was an imposter until he takes Harry away after the third task. When Dumbledore interrogates Barty Crouch Jr. He doesn't ask about the goblet. He wouldn't want Barty Crouch Jr. To reveal he was partly to blame. Dumbledore never tells Harry as he was devastated he got double crossed by Barty Crouch Jr. And played straight into Voldemort's hand. It could even be another reason Dumbledore is distant with Harry and extra protective of him in the next book. What do you think of my theory? Is it too mad or does it explain the biggest plot hole in Goblet of Fire? Love the show and thanks for everything you do.

[Andrew]

You know, I might be able to go along on this ride, but your point simply being that Dumbledore has a long history of putting Harry in dangerous situations to test his abilities and that's why he did it. That's not enough for me. There has to be more there for Dumbledore. Another reason for Dumbledore to have done this because I don't think that's enough. This is a very dangerous situation for Harry to be in. That's kind of like the whole point of the tournament.

[Eric]

What is that? Saying that God does not play dice with the universe? Dumbledore absolutely plays dice with Harry Potter all the time. But I still don't really necessarily buy that Dumbledore wanted Harry in the tournament and conspired to make it happen. After all, Dumbledore is a big picture Planner and Dumbledore 100% knows that Harry has to be the one to defeat Voldemort. And so he's not going to go put Harry in this tournament where a dragon can roast him or mermaids can drown him or hedges can grab him and, you know, any of this other stuff and kill Harry prior to him getting his chance to save the wizarding world. So it's just too reckless for me. Dumbledore is a reckless character. It's too reckless for me to buy into with Dumbledore's motive here. I think that I'm going to prefer to believe that the stated goal of the Triwizard Tournament is what it was. Which is to say that they just thought the Triwizard Tournament and hosting it would actually be a welcome relief from all the dementor stuff of the previous year, which had to do about Harry Potter in a big way. And they really just wanted people to be able to take their mind off the nonsense. And then when it was Harry in the tournament, they can't do that because here we go again.

[Andrew]

All right, well, let's move on to some order of the Phoenix feedback. Now this is from Jerry on Snape baiting Harry. Hi you all. I just listened to the chapter by chapter covering Harry's first Occlumency lesson. I would like to point out something for you folks to watch for and think about. And this was sent in before we hit the Snape's Worst Memory chapter. We know that Harry watches Snape put some memories in the Pensieve before the lesson. As I recall, Harry sees this happen before every lesson and at least two times during the lesson. Snape's Snape walks out of the room during a lesson, leaving Harry alone with the pensive containing the memories that we are to assume that Snape didn't want Harry to see. Once when Trelawney is being fired and once when Montague is being found in a toilet. And we know from other parts of the books that Snape considers Harry to be a rule breaker and line crosser. Nosy and so on. No matter how much of a hurry Snape was in to investigate the disturbances, why did he not push Harry out of his office in front of him and at least shut if not lock the door? Since I don't think Snape is stupid, my theory is that he really wanted Harry to see at least some of those memories to undermine his feelings for James names or for some other reason. I suppose it was just that the author wanted Harry to see those memories and couldn't think of any other way to make it happen. But I prefer my theory. Snape is intelligent and also suspicious of Harry. Leaving Harry alone in his office with the pensive full of memories once might be an error, but doing it two times seems like a plan. So please keep this in mind for the next several chapters as this thread is followed. Jerry, a 68 year old Hufflepuff thank you Jerry. I, you know I like the idea, but Snape is so angry at Harry for breaking into his memories. And maybe to your point, Snape is angry because Harry saw them and it's it might be like hitting Harry or hitting Snape just how bad it was that James treated him. So maybe that's why he's angry. But what worst to take away is that Snape is livid because Harry violated Snape's trust. Trust, right, and privacy. So not a bad idea. But personally I. I don't think Snape planned this.

[Eric]

I think it's a good example of Snape being human in that he can make a mistake like this. Like this is this seems like a very obvious security flaw or whatever.

[Andrew]

Everybody has those days.

[Eric]

But you know, I, I do think that he's also counting on some level on the fact that he terrifies Harry and he terrifies his students and so no student would really ever like even though Harry had the opportunity and heck, even a morbid curiosity about this sort of thing, I don't think Snape actually considered that he would do it. Like how wild is that? Because as much as he keeps going on about Harry being just like his father and stuff, it's more of a James moment than a Harry moment by a mile.

[Laura]

Well, we got a somewhat similar email from Matt who wrote in about about maybe Dumbledore's larger plan when it comes to Snape leading these occlumency lessons. Matt says, howdy y'. All. I just listened to episode 703 Snape's True Colors and I wanted to share my personal headcanon about Snape and the occlumency lessons he's giving to Harry. You keep talking about how he's a bad teacher for this subject and Dumbledore should absolutely know better than to put him in charge of of it, which should be true, but I think Dumbledore knew exactly what he was doing, because Snape isn't there specifically to teach Harry anything. Just a few weeks before this, Harry was shown to have a definitive connection to Voldemort during Nagini's attack of Mr. Weasley. So what Snape has been tasked with is probing Harry's mind to see how compromised he may or may not be. And beyond that, based on how the lessons continue to go, I could argue that Snape is actively trying to weaken Harry's mind. It seems possible to me that Dumbledore would not hesitate to have Snape use the mind connection as bait to force Voldemort into making a move. Snape could even be on orders to tell Voldemort that he's doing this to Harry. It's not a perfect headcanon, but it resonates with me because I absolutely see Dumbledore trying to use this connection between Harry and Voldemort as a tool rather than just getting rid of it. I love the podcast and I've been listening to it for a few years now, and I'm looking forward to all the great episodes to come. Thank y' all for everything.

[Eric]

This next one comes from Ailie on Hermione's treatment of Friends. Hey y', all, I love the podcast and I'm really enjoying the chapter by chapter reread. Just listened to your episode about Centaur and the Sneak and wanted to share a different take on Hermione's comments about Forensic Friends. I never read it as Hermione dismissing Friends's value or ability to teach. I think she is dismissing Lavender and Parvati's description of him as gorgeous and their assertion that Hermione would want to attend his class simply for the eye candy. Hermione values classes by their academic content, irrespective of the attractiveness of the teacher, and she has already dismissed divination as an academic subject. I see where you're coming from about the horse comments being offensive, but I really don't think she was trying to say he'd be a bad teacher, just that he'd be a bad choice. As a romantic interest in the Muggle world, I always found it really weird when school classmates had crushes on teachers. The age difference in power imbalance is a bit icky, and I view Lavender and Parvati's Comments. Similarly, with the added magical complication of interspecies differences. Thanks for everything you do for the show. You're amazing. Ailee. I love this. This is great. I think this works for me. What about you guys?

[Micah]

Nope, nope, nope.

[Laura]

I mean, Hermione totally has a crush on Lockhart.

[Micah]

I was going to say the same thing.

[Eric]

The year before she even met Trelawney. That was three years ago at this point.

[Micah]

But this isn't about Trelawney.

[Eric]

This is about Hermione growing up. Like, Hermione hasn't had a crush on a teacher. Like, okay, say that Parvati and Lavender are goading Hermione into taking this class because the teacher's a hunk. Right. Which is basically what they're doing. Hermione has grown from her experience with Lockhart. She thinks they should, too. It's like, girls, that was so three years ago. And also after Lockhart is when Hermione dismisses divination as an academic subject. And then, you know, two years after that is where we are now. So I think this fully tracks for me.

[Laura]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like she could have dismissed that motivation for taking the class without calling Forenz a horse.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And I mean, so again, she's 15.

[Laura]

So, like, yeah, you know, she's. She is acting.

[Eric]

Her age specificity matters.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And, yeah, Ailey is also coming at this as somebody who found it weird when school classmates had crushes on teachers. I think that was quite common and normal for people. I mean, I had crushes on school teachers growing up. I feel like I knew a lot of people who did. But that said, I don't really think it was about that. That either. I don't think it was about the attraction there necessarily.

[Eric]

Well, I think that it makes perfect sense to me for Hermione to be skeptical or turned off of the idea that Lavender and Parvati are ogling one of their teachers, because she just sees that as. It's a really girly thing to do, but it's very beneath where Hermione thinks she is.

[Micah]

Yeah. But I mean, I'm just looking at what is said in this email and. And Ailey says that Hermione values classes by their academic content, irrespective of the attractiveness of the teacher. And that's just not true.

[Laura]

I tend to think that she was looking for any excuse to downplay divination as a subject.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

And I mean, it's the way she.

[Micah]

Refers to Forens, though. Like, it would be one thing to refer to him or it would be one thing for her to position it to Lavender and Parvati as saying, oh, let's not base the success of this course on the teacher's attractiveness or unattractiveness. She refers to him as a horse and a four legged creature like that is. That's pretty insulting.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And she also could have just said to them, I don't see what you see in him something, you know, a little less insulting than.

[Eric]

Well, and she knows that they're. I mean, they're the Divination girlies too. Right. They're the ones who are always up Cybil Trelawney's behind on.

[Micah]

For somebody who is actively campaigning in this book for the liberation of house elves to be so crude towards another wizarding race just seems off to me.

[Eric]

I do think, as I think I said during the episode, I think it's a consequence of the fact that the chapter opens with that offhanded remark. And I don't think it was ever meant to be focused on the wiz. That we have done very rightly so, because it's an offensive statement. But I think it was only ever meant to be a way in which to skip three weeks of time.

[Laura]

Yeah. And I mean, also Hermione's 15. We all said crappy stuff when we were 15, you know, and I think.

[Andrew]

We talked about that at the time as well. And Hermione does have these moments every once in a while where it's like, damn Hermione. What?

[Eric]

It's true.

[Micah]

Like locking somebody in a jar.

[Eric]

That she does after book two. Yeah, yeah. That's more recent.

[Micah]

Well, speaking of questionable acts, this next email is from Bev on the Marauder's treatment of Snape. Dear Andrew, Laura, Eric and Micah, Listening to the podcast this week, I was struck by something and I'm not really sure why. I hadn't made any connection until now, when the Marauders decided to turn Snape upside down just for a laugh. Though we know fully well it's actually bullying. It felt horribly similar to the scene in Goblet of Fire when the Death Eaters toy with the Roberts family at the the quid. She says, quiz age, Quidditch World cup, try to trick me there. This puts their antics in a disturbing new light for me. We want to see them on the side of right and as a fun group of students to be around. But when they do this, even if it is to a character we don't like, I think some reassessment is called for.

[Andrew]

Yep. Yeah. So what Bev is saying is it is death Eater behavior, what they're doing there. Is that basically her point? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Laura]

You know, something that struck me when we read that this time around is that James says, if I recall correctly, towards the end of the memory, who wants to see me take Snively's pants off? And, you know, we're all American here, so, you know, I think when we read this initially we just thought he was talking about trousers, but we've since learned that in the uk, pants just mean Queen's underpants. So, I mean, he was really trying to expose Snape much in the same way that the Death Eaters at the World cup were turning the Muggle woman upside down to cause her dress, her night dress to fall and expose her. I think it's a great call out.

[Micah]

I think there's a slight difference between what happens here. I think certainly there's bullying in both cases, but I think there's. There's even more of a malicious intent behind what the Death Eaters are doing versus what the Marauders are doing. I think the Marauders, I guess you could say both are having quote, unquote fun. But I think, you know, it. I would like to think better of the Marauders, but I know it's hard. It's hard to justify their actions as, say, they're just kids, but.

[Andrew]

Well, that's what I was just going to say. I don't think you need to try and think better of the Marauders as kids. As adults. Adults, yeah, definitely think better of them, but as kids, why? Well, we don't know them anything. All right, next email is from Molly on racism in Harry Potter. Hey, Muggle casters. I really enjoyed your discussion of Chapter 28 and Julian's comments on Snape's casting and racism. One thing I noticed in that discussion is that you talked about how prejudice is based on blood status and not race in the books. However, in order of the Phoenix, Pansy Parkinson does mock Angelina Johnson's braids in a way that does feel racist. Racist. I'm curious whether the new series will have more of an intersectional approach to Snape and any other characters who played by actors of color. It seems odd to ignore race altogether, especially when many characters like Harry, grew up in the Muggle world. Curious about your thoughts. Also, I couldn't help thinking about what we might think if we saw an isolated incident of Harry and Draco from Draco's perspective, if we would judge Harry similar to how we judge James.

[Micah]

Talking about the scene in Half Blood Prince, I'M assuming, right?

[Andrew]

Ah, yeah.

[Laura]

Sectum Sempera.

[Eric]

Yeah, well that's something. Yeah.

[Andrew]

I mean this TV show has many opportunities to address lots of real world issues, and I hope that the show does dig in a little bit to bits of racism we saw in the series or, you know, just trying to create storylines that reflect what's going on in the world today or back in the 90s.

[Eric]

Yeah, sure.

[Laura]

All right, our next email comes from Laura Lai, who writes in on Voldemort gaining access to the Ministry. Lorelai says hello Harry Potter friends. I have been rereading the books with y' all since last year and I recently had a thought about Order of the Phoenix. A large part of the plot is that Voldemort needs to go get the prophecy, but hello, they are magical. Why can't Voldemort shrink down with reducto and go in someone's pocket? As far as I remember, the only security in the Ministry is when Harry had to check his wand, but he could shrink his wand down with him. All this would be all this would not be a problem if the Ministry was not such a security nightmare. Thanks for listening. I would love to hear Yalls thoughts.

[Andrew]

Lorelei, do you want this to get all honey, I shrunk the kids up in the series. I It's a fun thought, but you know, I they have to draw some boundaries otherwise it gets too easy. I think with tricks like this, as good of a trick as it may have been, that would have been fun seeing them shrink. The Harry Potter series actually. And then they get stepped on by Filch or Hagrid.

[Eric]

I think so certainly might be a magic that nobody thought to protect against. So for that it's like nobody thinks about that. I mean, besides the Honey Ash Trunk, the Blank Movie series, and Ant man. Now I rarely at all think about miniaturization as a tactic.

[Micah]

And I think we'll wrap up today with a chicken soup from Jessica who says, hey everyone, I'm back after a 15 year hiatus. Let me explain. I am on maternity leave and have been listening to the Harry Potter audiobooks again to keep me company after each reread or re listen. I always feel a bit empty and sad when the journey is over. After finishing the series this time, I suddenly remembered mugglecast. I was telling my husband about you and I thought I'd do a Google search for nostalgia's sake. I was thrilled when I saw you were still podcasting. I discovered you in 2009 as a 17 year old with an ipod classic and no one to discuss Harry Potter with. I remember downloading new episodes from itunes on my computer and clicking or dragging them onto my ipod pod. You brought so much comfort back then and you're doing it again now. I've jumped back to the beginning of your current reread series and have loved it. It feels like reuniting with old friends. Also, I naturally creeped your social media and love catching up on where you're at in life 15 years later. Finally for fun, I dug out my ipod Classic and I still have a few of your old episodes on there. Looks like I had finished up to episode 198eight with the old cover photo and all. Thanks again for always being there. I love being back.

[Andrew]

Jessica thank you so much Jessica and welcome back. You know, it's hard to see in my camera shot, but I do keep my Ipod Classic behind me to remind us where we started. This thing will power on if it is plugged in, but if you unplug it after it charges it'll last like five seconds and then. But that's okay. I'm glad that I still have my Ipod Classic. These things rocked when we were younger.

[Eric]

I have mine too. It's fifth generation and it's embroidered or embossed on the back it says Eric the Caption Man.

[Laura]

Oh.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's very sweet Jessica. Brings back good memories. Thank you so much. And I'm thinking there's going to be that new audiobook series of Harry Potter with all the different actors right Coming out last we heard. I thought it was later this year. We'll see. Maybe it's coming going to be next year at this point.

[Eric]

Maybe they'll push it back a year to the TV show's original release date.

[Andrew]

Maybe that would be a nice deal for us fans, but maybe that will have more people coming back to us or discovering us because they'll want chapter analysis. After listening to what we can only hope are excellent performances of these chapters, we will see. Well, thanks everybody for submitting feedback. We love receiving your feedback. We love reading it all. We try to include as much as possible on the show, even if we didn't include it today. We are reading and listening to all your feedback. So thank you so much. Please do keep it coming. If you have any feedback about today's discussion or any episode, don't forget you can visit mugglecast.com to submit some feedback. You can use our contact form there. Or you can send an email to mugglecastmail.com that's also the email address where you can send us a voice memo like several people did at the top of today's episode. And next week on mugglecast. For real this time Time Order of The Phoenix, Chapter 33 Fight and Flight no quizzes this week because it is a Muggle mail episode. If you're looking for more podcasting from the four of us, listen to our other shows, what the Hype and Millennial. And here in Mugglecast World. Like I said earlier in the episode, we'll have a new bonus mugglecast out later this week in which we reminisce over July 2007, which was the craziest month in Harry Potter fantasies history. That was when Order of the Phoenix the Movie and Deathly Hallows the Book came out within 10 days of one another. Don't forget to visit michaelcast.com for all the information that you need about the show. And that does it for this week's episode. Thanks everyone for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

Bye everyone. Bye Bye, Sam.