The Psychology of Slughorn (HBP Chapter 22, ‘After the Burial’)

Summary

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MuggleCast Ep. – The Psychology of Slughorn (HBP Chapter 22, "After the Burial")

Release Date: April 22, 2026
Main Theme: A deep dive into the psychology, motivations, and moral shades of Horace Slughorn, as revealed in Chapter 22 of "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince", “After the Burial”. The hosts connect past book threads, discuss the ethics of manipulation and persuasion, and analyze how character psychology drives the plot.

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a close look at Horace Slughorn in “After the Burial”, exploring how luck, guilt, and self-interest shape his actions. The team examines Harry’s use of Felix Felicis, the ethical complexities at play in Slughorn’s interactions, and what Slughorn’s behavior reveals about adult morality, ego, and the power of persuasion. The conversation intertwines book moments with film adaptations and real-life parallels in persuasion, leadership, and regret.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hagrid’s Grief and the Dangerous Invitation

Timestamps: [04:35]-[10:58]

• Aragog’s Death & Hagrid’s Motivation:
  Hagrid invites Harry, Ron, and Hermione to Aragog’s funeral, echoing earlier instances where he unknowingly puts students at risk (“...Hagrid also puts Harry and Ron in danger when he’s about to be carted off to Azkaban...he loftily suggests, you know, anyone who wanted to know what’s going on should follow the spiders.” — Laura, [09:10])

• Hermione’s Alarm and Hogwarts Security:
  The hosts discuss Hermione’s concerns about breaking curfew amidst recent attacks on students, debating if Hagrid’s ask is fair given his loneliness and grief.

• Sympathy for Hagrid:
  “Oh, poor Hagrid just doesn’t know any better. He never recognizes the inherent risk in any situation really. So I’m not surprised by this at all.” — Micah, [05:47]

2. Book Connections: Parallels Between Chamber of Secrets & Half-Blood Prince

Timestamps: [07:13]-[10:58]

• Building Narrative Bridges:
  Several hosts point out the rich connection between Book 2 and Book 6 through the recurring motif of the dangerous, loyal acromantula, Aragog.

• Slytherin Manipulation:
  Both Tom Riddle and Slughorn exploit Hagrid’s affection for Aragog—Riddle as scapegoat, Slughorn for acromantula venom.

3. Felix Felicis and Ethical Manipulation

Timestamps: [11:28]-[19:14]

• The Potion’s Power:
  The episode analyzes how Felix Felicis (“liquid luck”) imbues Harry with confidence, removes his inhibitions, and sets off a chain of highly unlikely—but fortuitous—events.

• Moral Ambiguity of Harry’s Actions:
  Harry’s decision to bring Slughorn to the funeral is likened to Dumbledore’s style of sacrificing comfort for a greater goal ("Felix allows Harry to be his most Dumbledore that he’s ever been." — Laura, [18:17])

• Addiction/Use in Adult Life:
  The hosts muse on how Felix Felicis could be addictive—“I wonder if there are adult wizards who maybe become addicted to Felix Felicis...it could be a helpful upper.” — Andrew, [13:35]

4. Slughorn’s Character Study: Greed, Guilt, and Social Acumen

Timestamps: [21:17]-[44:52]

• The Art of Persuasion:
  The team breaks down how Harry wins over Slughorn, in large part thanks to luck, but also via emotional manipulation and playing on Slughorn’s guilt and affection for Lily Potter.

• Self-Serving but Serviceable:
  Even though Slughorn’s eulogy for Aragog is “self-serving and manipulative”, it still gives Hagrid what he needs — emotional closure. ("...I think Hagrid still gets what he needs from it." — Laura, [29:45])

• Ethics of House-Elf Testing:
  Slughorn tests wine for poison on house-elves, raising debate about classism, historical precedent, and magical society ethics. ("It shows either how highly Slughorn...thinks of himself or how little he thinks of house elves..." — Micah, [32:03])

• Importance of Image and Regret:
  Slughorn’s driving force is his self-image—he wants to protect his reputation, even when facing moral crossroads. ("...he’s not so different from Lockhart in Chamber of Secrets, because both of them are frauds. Slughorn just wears it better." — Micah, [39:16])

• Notable Comparison to Lockhart and Dumbledore:
  The hosts connect Slughorn’s conduct under pressure to both Gilderoy Lockhart’s and Dumbledore’s manipulative strategies.

• Money & Side Hustle:
  Slughorn’s penchant for valuable magical ingredients is likened to a possible black market side hustle, justified (half-jokingly) by a low teacher’s salary.

5. Real-Life Parallels of Persuasion

Timestamps: [45:42]-[52:56]

• Listener Stories & Host Insights:
  The hosts relate book moments to their own and listeners’ stories of persuasion—at work, in education, and even convincing kids to leave for home using “magical thinking” (like Pokémon stories).

• Major Takeaway:
  “...it just takes time to build relationships with people to earn that power of persuasion.” — Andrew, [45:42]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hagrid’s Grief:
  “He’s not in a right state of mind right now. He lost his buddy and nothing matters right now but saying goodbye. And he wants a support group around him…” — Andrew, [05:59]

• On Slughorn’s Eulogy:
  “Even though Slughorn didn’t exactly mean what he was saying, I guess it was very heartfelt and meaningful.” — Andrew, [29:56]

• On Harry’s Luck & Confidence:
  “Kind of like the hesitation. It’s liquid luck, but it’s like liquid confidence almost. It’s like shining the path forward. And it’s a magically derived path, so, you know, it’s golden.” — Andrew, [19:04]

• On Slughorn’s Guilt:
  “...what I was really moved by was Harry basically says to Slughorn, be brave like my mother was. That’s really powerful.” — Andrew, [35:57]

• On Slughorn’s Reputation Anxiety:
  “Please don’t think too negatively of me for what you’re about to see.” — Harry quoting Slughorn, [39:12]

• Ethics of Using House-Elves:
  “He doesn’t know them by name. Yeah, it’s certainly a non standard, hopefully, thankfully use of house elves of Hogwarts. But you got all these house elves right there and maybe that’s just what was done. You know, as far as Slughorn is concerned, it ain’t great.” — Andrew, [32:59]

• Book/Film Tie-In:
  “That scene in the movie was beautifully portrayed with the addition of the story of Francis the fish. ... Hat tip to Jim Broadbent there because that was really. I teared up at that scene in the movies. It was just really well done.” — Micah, [38:10]

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Important Timestamps

• [04:35] — Hagrid’s Invitation and Parallels to Past Danger
• [10:58] — Slytherin Manipulation Across the Books
• [13:35] — Felix Felicis, Luck, and Addictive Potential
• [18:17] — Felix Felicis and Dumbledore-Like Calculated Manipulation
• [21:17] — Slughorn’s Psychology, Guilt, and Self-Image Begins
• [29:45] — The Impact of Slughorn’s Eulogy
• [32:03] — Slughorn’s Ethics: House-Elf Poisons Testing
• [35:57] — Harry’s Pivotal ‘Be Brave Like My Mother’ Moment
• [39:16] — Slughorn, Lockhart, and the Fear of Reputation Damage
• [45:42] — Persuasion in Real Life: Hosts and Listener Stories

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Conclusion & Final Thoughts

• The episode frames Horace Slughorn as one of the Wizarding World’s most human “flawed adults”: gregarious and helpful, but also self-serving, classist, manipulative, and wracked with guilt.
• Harry’s success with Slughorn raises big questions about leadership, persuasion, and ethics—tying magic’s mechanics to real-world psychology.
• Slughorn ultimately does the right thing, but only after a series of missteps and through a blend of luck, flattery, and guilt—mirroring the way adults often reluctantly make difficult admissions.
• The chapter acts as a microcosm for the series’ larger themes: integrity, courage, guilt, and the lingering effects of seemingly small choices.

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Episode MVPs & Takeaways

• MVP: Horace Slughorn, for revealing so many shades of complexity—and for his unforgettable, if performative, eulogy.
• Key Takeaway: Even deeply flawed mentors can do the right thing in the end, but are often driven as much by self-preservation as by altruism.
• Real-World Parallel: True persuasion comes from trust, empathy, and sometimes, as in Harry's case, a bit of magical luck.

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For Next Week

Next up: “Horcruxes” (HBP Chapter 23).
Quiz question: On which continent would you find the world’s largest spider, the Goliath bird-eater (Theraphosa blondi)?
Submit on mugglecast.com!

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For feedback, email: mugglecastmail.com
Follow @MuggleCast on socials.

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Transcript

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[C]

Well, you can't shove a bezoar down your own throat.

[D]

If you're poisoned, have somebody else on stage.

[E]

What if you drag it for you with the bezoar?

[A]

There you go. Perfect shot Chaser.

[D]

Welcome to mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter. I'm Andrew.

[A]

I'm Eric.

[E]

I'm Micah.

[C]

And I'm Laura.

[D]

We're your Harry Potter friends talking about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So be sure to follow us in your podcast app and you'll never miss an episode. And this week, we hope you've had all your wine stores tested for poison because we're discussing chapter 22 of Half Blood Prince after the burial. Before we continue though, if you love Mugglecast as much as Horace loves rare magical creature ingredients, we invite you to Support [e-mail] mugglecast you'll get access to lots of benefits, including bonus episodes of the show, ad free episodes, live streams, monthly zoom hangout, and a lot more. We can't do this without you, so thank you so much for your support. Laura. You want to let listeners know about something, right?

[C]

Yeah. So I was recently on an episode of our friend Rachel's podcast, the menuscript, which is a podcast all about egg cellent books and culinary creations. We talked about Order of the Phoenix as a full novel as opposed to the chapter by chapter format that we're used to doing on this show. It was a ton of fun and we had some really, really deep, insightful connections to current events and even other historical events. So you should definitely go and check it out. But we also talked about food because that's a big part of the show as well. So we shared a couple of recipes. It was really, really fun. So go check out the menuscript anywhere you listen to podcasts.

[D]

All right, well, without further ado, let's get into chapter by chapter and this week we're discussing chapter 22 of Half Blood Prince after the burial.

[A]

We last discussed it on an episode called Horcrux Hangover. Can't wait to see what that's for. And this clip we're about to play from mugglecast413, which aired on April 15th of 2019, contains some good old fashioned at the time contemporary Fantastic Beasts sequel commentary. Play the clip. What you're looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected. It is from Mugglekast episode 413. And speaking of Aragog, let's not forget he directly tells, I think, Harry and Ron he came to Hagrid in the pocket of a traveler. Yeah, and Newt keeps lots of little thingies in his pockets.

[D]

So yeah, little friends. People have picked up on that. I think that would be a super cool connection. I'm just not sure there's room for this. But I guess we'll see if there

[C]

was room for Yusuf Kama.

[D]

Maybe Yousef was the traveler.

[E]

Oh my God, there was room for Bunty.

[D]

For Bun.

[C]

Yeah, that's true. This memory is everything.

[D]

Oh, I miss all those characters.

[A]

Yeah, I hope, I hope they're doing well as we get into this after the burial chapter, it is Aragog centered because we learn via an owl in a tear soaked letter very reminiscent of book three's tear soaked letter about Beaky, that Aragog has died and Hagrid is requesting the presence of the trio down to say some words and Barry Aragog. So apart from the slight disconnect that Ron notes of, you know, Harry and Ron barely escaped Aragog's den with their lives a few years back, Hermione's alarmed that Hagrid is asking them to leave this school at night. And so my sort of top question regarding Hermione's alarm is is it unfair given that Hagrid has so few other friends and Just lost one of his other friends that he had. Is it fair for Hagrid to ask the trio to risk getting in trouble to come and spend time with him?

[E]

Oh, poor Hagrid just doesn't know any better. He never recognizes the inherent risk in any situation really. So I'm not surprised by this at all.

[D]

He also, he's, he's not in a right state of mind right now. He lost his buddy and nothing matters right now but saying goodbye. And he wants a support group around him while he says goodbye. So I don't blame him for this.

[A]

Well, I really like what you said, Mike, of like he never understands the inherent risk because like, yeah, that is, that is Hagrid. So like you connected to like his whole problem always is that. But also there's been some recent attacks though, right? Like Katie and you know, Ron for instance, like going out. I think because Harry's older, he's not as afraid as he is in like year two when there's all these attacks going around or year three when there's all these dementias around to protect them against Sirius Black or whatever. Like year six, there's still probably that same error of anyone could get attacked at any time. And surely nobody would be more attuned to that than the teachers who see the anxiety on the students faces every, you know, passing day. And so Hagrid should be better attuned to the fact that there's a lot going on and a lot of people, like all of his students, all of the kids that do take his care of Magical Creatures class, the trio accepted, are probably really nervous and still he asked them to come break the rules for him.

[E]

That's Hagrid though. At the end of the day though, I don't think that Harry would have let a friend like Hagrid go through something like this by himself. Ron and Hermione clearly are not so apt. We know Ron is deathly afraid of spiders, so I give him a hall pass here. But I'm a little surprised by Hermione. You bring up great points though, Eric, in terms of the fact that students have been getting attacked and it's not safe to be out on the grounds. That's why there's all these extra security measures in place. That's why there are Aurors on Hogwarts campus. So it's, it's a bit reckless on Harry's part, but he's got luck on his side, let's just say. But liquid luck. I did want to bring up with Aragog specifically There's a really strong connection here between Chamber of Secrets and Half Blood Prince. And I feel like this is really where the plot from both books connect with each other, Right? Going back to Aragog being the one who was initially blamed or, you know, was looked at to be the monster from the Chamber of Secrets. Everything that transpires in the forest with Ron and Harry. And then, of course, now here we have Aragog, who has passed, and he is the means to the end for Harry retrieving this Horcrux memory. Without Aragog passing, I don't know how Harry, luck or not, would have been so successful in obtaining this memory from Slughorn.

[D]

Are you saying it's a good thing Aragog died? You're sick.

[A]

Well, first of all, yes. Always. That spider sucked. Okay, can we just all agree that dude sucked? No, I'm kidding.

[C]

Spiders are cool. I mean, not this particular spider, but, like, in general. I really love, Micah, what you're talking about here with connecting the threads between books two and six on this moment, because there is so much we can pull out here beyond, like, even the larger narrative connection that you're talking about with Aragog really being the key in a lot of ways to push the momentum of the story forward. Because in Chamber of Secrets, Hagrid also puts Harry and Ron in danger when he's about to be carted off to Azkaban. And he, like, loftily suggests, you know, anyone who wanted to know what's going on should follow the spiders. And Harry and Ron were like, bet we'll follow the spiders. They follow the spiders, they almost die.

[D]

You're so Gen Z.

[A]

They were. They were so bent. They were really. I know.

[C]

They really were.

[A]

It was great.

[C]

But then again, in this book tied to Aragog, Hagrid's like, yeah, come on down to my spider funeral. And, you know, the trio could get in trouble at school. But also way worse to the point of everything that's going on right now. And I also love how in both books, a Slytherin manipulates and takes advantage of Hagrid in order to get something from Aragog. In the case of Tom Riddle, of course, he scapegoats Hagrid and Aragog, and in this case, Slughorn uses it as a way to sneakily take some of Aragog's venom. There's a lot going on here. There's, like, a lot that we could pull out that connects these stories.

[E]

Love that.

[A]

Yeah. So the trio, after getting Hagrid's letter Harry has his own ideas about what he's going to do to help him with Malfoy. And they actually hit on this idea of boom, smack dab. You know, let's try your bottle of Felix Felicis. You gotta get lucky. By the way, Andrew, an alternate Pensive segment for this week featured you playing Daft Punk. Okay. You know, gotta get lucky.

[D]

As soon as you said that, that's what jumped into my head.

[A]

I wondered. I sensed it being similar. But I'll tell you, because we monetized these over on YouTube, I didn't want the copyright infringement to knock us our abilities. That's why we must. I know, I know, I know, but so Harry is asked by Hermione what could be a more perfect time than now to use it. And Harry has this brief moment where he's like, well, I was kind of picturing something with Ginny, like, okay.

[E]

Oh, you dirty dog.

[A]

Well, he's, he's lovesick. He's, he's, he's, you know, it's innocent anyway. But what I love about it is he does actually take the potion. And immediately Ron and Hermione are quite rightly concerned that it broke Harry. Like, he's, he's not okay. He's just like, yeah, I'm gonna go here and do this. And they're like, are we sure? What have we done? What have. There was a brief what have we done? Moment from Ron and Hermione.

[E]

Yeah. What I, what I love about this though, is it's very reminiscent of the previous chapter when they. Well, really, Harry has this epiphany about the Room of Requirement. It's, it's the same thing. He has this epiphany about Felix Felicis and, you know, you know, it's kind of been there all along. But this moment, to me was such a great moment in the Harry Potter movies. In the Half Blood Prince film when Dan takes the Felix Felicis and he says, like, Hagrid's is the place to be tonight. There's very few moments.

[D]

Madame Maxime also says that quite often.

[E]

Oh, doesn't she? Oh, but I feel like there's very few moments you could point to in the Harry Potter films where you feel like it's just such a really good moment of acting. And I just thought Dan knocked it out of the park.

[D]

Yeah, he did. Yep.

[C]

Why doesn't he take another gulp of the Felix Felicis and go have another crack at the Room of Requirement after this? Like, I don't know.

[D]

Well, certainly Hermione's not going to give him that idea. But what is very interesting to me about the Felix Felicis is Harry's just drunk on luck and he's feeling confident and it made me wonder. And then this is one of the benefits of rereading these books as you get older. I wonder if there are adult wizards who maybe become addicted to Felix Felicis. He feels lighter. He feels kind of happier. It seems you could almost compare it to alcohol. So if you're like feeling, if you're a wizard, if you're feeling down or hopeless, I could be it see it being a helpful upper.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And there's that line. I think it's a movie ism specifically. But it's just like the whomsoever shall take this should see their. Their wildest dreams and endeavors succeed for a period of time. And it's just like wow, this is just like way not overselling it because it's just that good. It's wild. What like watching reading this chapter is amazing because of all the little intricacies, all the little notions that come to Harry that he leans into and then sees all of his dreams succeed. So it's very impressive. But one thing that I think somebody else that could have used the luck potion in this chapter but didn't and so thus had to do without it was Hagrid. Because Hagrid tells Harry when they're down at his hut that he personally dragged Aragog out of the forest where his children were trying to eat him. And I don't just mean eat Aragog as is the way with this group of spiders, but they were going to eat Hagrid as well. And granted Hagrid's not a 12 year old student the way Harry and Ron were, but if you think back to how many hundreds of spiders, how many hundreds of. I say spiders lightly. Asterisk. Giant spiders. Acromantula. There were in the forest. And how did Hagrid get out there? How did. Hagrid doesn't even have a wand. So the idea that he drags Aragog all the way out from that place in the woods without magic basically and survived is actually really impressive.

[C]

You know he has feet the size of baby dolphins. I don't know what else those are.

[A]

Acromantula, crushing feet, those stompers just all the way out.

[E]

I think it speaks to Hagrid's connection to Aragog though. The fact that he would do something like that.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And not give up on it because I'm sure there are probably moments where he could have just turned around and left Aragog there. But maybe it was just one of those situations where the adrenaline was pumping and that was all that mattered.

[A]

I love that because we see him here and when he wrote the letter and here he's just sad. He's just sad. But there was a lot of bravery and there was a lot of effort.

[E]

Gryffindor.

[A]

There was so much Gryffindor. I was going to say that. It's like, to your point about connecting the threads, the Gryffindor student was the scapegoat last time. And Hagrid's Gryffindor side doesn't always show. He's more of a puff, usually, I think, with his love for creatures. And my next question, we asked if it was wrong for Hagrid to invite the trio down. Is it wrong for Harry to invite Horace Slughorn, who he happens to bump into, to the funeral? Because Harry knows that Slughorn really just wants to profit off of Aragog's venom. And at the same time, Harry's mission with Horus forces him to need to kind of butter Slughorn up. None of these concerns have anything to do with doing the right thing by Hagrid. So is Harry being a bad friend to Hagrid for inviting Slughorn along? To me, it seems kind of almost Dumbledorean, what Harry does, where the pieces align.

[E]

Yeah, it's a means to an end. I feel like I've been saying that a lot in this discussion, but the Felix Felicis presents the opportunity and Harry seizes it. And let's face it, it's not going to hurt Aragog any.

[A]

He's not going to get deader.

[D]

So I just. I don't know if we can blame Harry for anything that he does. Once he takes the Felix Felicis, it's acting as a compass for him. It sets him up for success. That said, I do think he should be held responsible for his actions. But. But should we be criticizing Harry for bringing along Slughorn? I don't think so, because I think you just have to thank the. The Felix for this. Blame the Felix if you want.

[C]

Yeah, I. I wrote here in the doc for the greater good because it really. Yes, because honestly, I think that's what this is about. Because to be real, I don't think Harry would have invited Slughorn to Hagrid's for the Arachnid funeral if he hadn't taken the Felix Felicis. Because Harry is a good friend most of the time. And I think he would have the thought of, like, why would I put Hagrid in this position? Right. I want to be there for my friend. Felix allows Harry to be his most Dumbledore that he's ever been. So it cuts through, I think, some of the judgment that he would otherwise have to prevent that from happening.

[A]

Kind of like the hesitation. It's liquid luck, but it's like liquid confidence almost. It's like shining the path forward. And it's a magically derived path, so, you know, it's golden.

[E]

It removes the inhibition. Right. And it just allows him to be free in a way he otherwise probably wouldn't be. And I also think a bit of his Slytherin side comes out in this too. I know he's not technically in Slytherin, but it was a consideration.

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[A]

All right, and we're back. And it's time to discuss Slughorn's psychology. This is a great Horace Slughorn chapter, and we do see in it, Harry finally gets to do what Dumbledore couldn't. And he succeeds by the end in getting the memory from him. The untarnished, unedited Snyder cut of Slughorn's memory.

[D]

Black and white, four by three aspect ratio.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So my question is, and we touched on this just a moment ago, but would this have been possible for Harry to do without taking the Felix Felicis?

[D]

For Harry to have successfully taken all of these steps on his own would have been way too lucky, I think. So with that in mind, no, he would not have been able to do this.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But it also makes me wonder, how did Dumbledore hope he would pull it off if the Felix weren't going to be in play? Would it still be something to do with connecting with Slughorn over his mother?

[C]

I think Felix is necessary here because Harry's kind of been wasting a lot of time and he's out of time.

[A]

You know, it's interesting that Harry is using the bottle that he got from Slughorn basically at the beginning of the term. So it's almost as if the cards were in Harry's pocket from day one. Like as soon as he had the

[D]

vile stars, should have seen it in the tea leaves.

[A]

The stars aligned.

[E]

Well, it works here. It doesn't work for Harry a couple chapters from now, right, where he tries to use something of one of his professors on them. But yeah, I, I generally agree. I, I think it would have taken a lot more effort had Harry not taken this potion to elicit that memory from Slughorn. He probably would have been eventually able to do it. Or Dumbledore would have just had to step in because clock's ticking.

[A]

Yeah, they are on a deadline here, a real deadline. But let's get into further exactly how it is that Harry succeeds. I mean, I think the biggest shock, you need a shock, you need something to break the just sort of monotony of daily life. And what's going to be more shocking while Horace is down collecting some pods from Sprout, than to throw off the invisibility cloak and go, hey, Professor Jazz Hands, I'm here. And I think that, that disarms Slughorn, shakes him up a little bit, gives him half of a coronary, but it, it kind of breaks the cycle of this whole year. Harry has been trying to get Slughorn alone and Slughorn knows it. And so, because this has the guise of not being about getting the memory from him. Like, Harry volunteers he's going to help a friend. I think that that immediately puts Slughorn's normal defenses down and is a clever way to bypass like almost make him forget what it is that the two of them still have in terms of unfinished business. So it's really interesting for that way that it sort of bypasses his normal security. And speaking of security, apparently Slughorn doesn't like Argus Filch.

[C]

Like, who does?

[E]

I don't.

[A]

I don't know what the deal with that with those two is.

[E]

I. I did want to pull on this a little bit because he says that Filch is more concerned about litter than proper security. To which I ask. Kitty litter.

[A]

Well then there goes Argus Filch. He's always hauling killy kitty litter into the school.

[E]

Well, for Mrs. Norris.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I mean certainly if Luna's been walking through the corridors. Because didn't a couple chapters ago we saw her with like going through her bag and pulling out like a handful of kitty litter. Wasn't that mentioned? But I, Yeah, I think this is referring to like kids throwing their rubbish around in the halls.

[D]

So I'm wondering, did the Felix Felisa somehow keep Filch from locking the door? Cause that seems really convenient too. That is. I'm. I'm not convinced. But that would be wild if it somehow alters other people too, even if they didn't take the Felix.

[C]

Or it just inspired Harry's timing to pass through the door before Filch typically locks up.

[A]

Yeah. Or when Slughorn left the castle to go to the greenhouses or go to meet Sprout, he just forgot to lock it.

[C]

He left it open. Yeah.

[A]

Cause he was distracted by the profit he was about to make. Or, well, he says he's using it for his third year class, but he also happens to drop how expensive or pricey they are. So. And along this thread, like Horace has just successfully obtained one valuable magical creature ingredient. But Harry presents him quite beside Harry's intention with another. Because it turns out that Ackermantula venom, uh, dear, dearly recently departed acromantulars who are still moist, can provide a degree of venom that you could not get anywhere. And it's worth like a hundred galleons a bottle. So Slughorn, again, his defenses melt away and he like excitedly is like, I'm going to change my tie to go help you bury this spider. And yeah, it's just a moment that is perfectly concocted by Felix. It's really exciting to.

[E]

He's very good at playing the part. Right. He recognizes if he shows up in a certain way to this burial, that maybe Hagrid will be more than likely to allow him to extract this very rare and expensive ingredient from Aragog. I just really feel like in this chapter several of Slughorn's less than admirable, less than admirable qualities show up. Right. You were talking, we were talking about Filch. And I mean we could also extend that to say Filch is a squib. So maybe and, and Slughorn is a Slytherin. So you know, maybe that's a little bit of his bias coming through. You know, we see how he, you know, behaves in trying to acquire all of these very expensive ingredients. We see what he thinks of house elves. You know, we'll get to that in a little bit. Like, like this is not this, I mean this is not the greatest chapter for Horace Slughorn. I mean this is a very revealing chapter about who, who he is.

[A]

You know, I wonder too, because it's mentioned how much sort of avoiding is being done by Slughorn until it melts away. But we also haven't recently, to my mind, heard about any Slug Club hangouts happening. Um, the one in the books, not the ones that we do, we do them monthly over on Patreon, um, but the Slug Club hangouts. So I wonder if those have been postponed following Ron's poisoning just because Slughorn is very, very, very nervous about being approached by Harry. And so there have been fewer than ever opportunities for Harry to like get Slughorn alone. Um, we see him try and fail in the last couple chapters too. But like, this circumstance brought upon by Felix is the perfect series of events that cause Horus to commit fully to going and participating in this thing. So it's pretty interesting. But you know, the great thing about Slughorn, and I know Mike, I think you correctly mentioned that, like, yeah, his personality is not actually something we would aspire to necessarily, but, but he does do Aragog a solid partly because of how successful Harry notices he's been. But Slughorn way overdoes the eulogy in like a way that is meaningful to Hagrid. And it's safe to say that without Slughorn, like, Slughorn actually ends up contributing to Aragog's send off. I think in a way that makes it better than it would have been otherwise. And I'm very impressed by him for his ability to overdo the words.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day it's very self serving and manipulative. But I think Hagrid still Gets what he needs from it.

[D]

Yeah. Even though Slughorn didn't exactly mean what he was saying, I guess it was very heartfelt and meaningful. And yes, Hagrid got something ultimately really nice out of Slughorn that he wouldn't have had otherwise. So I ultimately think it was good that Slughorn was there.

[A]

I agree. Because, I mean, what would Harry and Hagrid be doing without him? Just kind of like, would they be drinking? I doubt it. You know, like, it would be. It would be like a wallow party. Like, just like sad. And Harry would be like, yeah, I can't relate. He tried to eat me.

[E]

You know, kind of thing.

[A]

It reminds me of, like, unfortunately, I've attended some funerals now as an adult and like, they are as much for the person who's departed as for the living to make the living feel better and get like a sense of closure. And I think that that's what Slughorn does for Hagrid by overdoing it. And so I actually. I am actually endeared to Slughorn. Even though we know his motives aren't entirely pure. It makes me think more softly of him because Slughorn even inadvertently did a nice thing for. For Hagrid and allowed Hagrid to mourn and process in a way that he. Otherwise, that Harry would have been insufficient at.

[E]

Yeah. Something as simple as getting dressed. Right. It. It's a sign of respect for the event that he is about to go and attend to and he gets the Acromantula venom very early on. He could have just split if he wanted to. I mean. Right. He could have went back to the castle. And yet he does deliver this very heartfelt, I think, Andrew, you said that eulogy for Aragog really kind of off the top of his head. Like he didn't have a lot of time to plan to speak. And I don't think he was honestly looking to do that. So, you know, he steps up in that moment and does a solid for Hagrid. And so, yeah, there, there is something positive, I guess, to, to take from this situation. However.

[D]

Oh.

[E]

When we go inside of Hagrid's hut and we are toasting our dear friend Aragog, we learn that the wine is safe because Slughorn has been sure to test it on. On the Hogwarts House elves. And let's talk about the ethics of this for a second because, you know, if you think back in history, this was a practice that. And. And it still exists in some forms to this day. That was reserved for royalty and military leaders. Right. Taste the food before it's offered to the king or the queen. So I think it shows either how highly Slughorn the king thinks of himself or how little he thinks of house elves. Well, you know, what if Dobby passes out or.

[A]

No big deal.

[E]

No big deal.

[A]

He doesn't know them by name. Yeah, it's certainly a non standard, hopefully, thankfully use of house elves of Hogwarts. But you got all these households right there and maybe that's just what was done. You know, as far as Slughorn is concerned, it ain't great.

[E]

We know at least one of them already has a drinking problem. So like.

[A]

Yeah, well, and one of them's already been thoroughly affected by a potion or something that they drank. So.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And I could also see Slughorn following something like this up with oh, but don't think ill of me because if it was poisonous, I, I had a bezoar on hand that I would have used to treat the elf. So like I can see that being his perverted twisted logic to justify it. But it's like, okay, well if that's the case, why not test it on a person?

[D]

Test it on a person?

[C]

Why do you got to test it on an elf? Well, you can't shove a bazaar down your own throat if you're poisoned.

[D]

Well have, have somebody else on standby

[E]

do it for you with the bezoar.

[A]

There you go. Perfect shot chaser.

[D]

Well then you won't know if it's actually dangerous, I guess.

[A]

Oh yeah, that's true. Filter it. You got to filter it through. But Slughorn's poison free wine. Thanks to all the house elves that put their neck out for this after quite a bit of it that Harry is successful in magically refilling, by the way, which is very clever. What's like once Harry, or once Slughorn is thoroughly blitzed, the topic, thanks to Hagrid, happens to, you know, come upon James and Lily's death. And Harry here is pretty aptly, pretty delicately able to play on Slughorn's guilt for the death of Lily and James. Because if, if there is no Slughorn, there is no, in its present form, Voldemort. Right. And so anything, anything Voldemort did in some way does come back to his teacher, does come back to Slughorn. And I think it's really particularly effective of Harry to talk about Voldemort, not in any kind of ethereal sense, but in his words and actions. Because this is somebody that Slughorn knew, this is somebody that Slughorn taught. And Harry has seen this Memory where Slughorn has been susceptible to Tom's flattery just like every other teacher was. Just like Dumbledore told him he was. And so for Harry to say, did you know that Voldemort offered to spare your other beloved student? My mother and Slughorn never heard that before. And his guilt over time just builds up and compounds to the point where he finally has to say, like, the guilt just overwhelms him.

[D]

Well, and what I was really moved by was Harry basically says to Slughorn, be brave like my mother was. That's really powerful. And we've been building to this moment, right, because we've heard Slughorn multiple times over the course of this book so far, speak fondly of Lily. And so we are now in a position where we know Slughorn deeply cared about Lily, was impressed by Lily is equally impressed by Harry. It was just all coming together in this moment. And how could Slughorn, not Felix or not, offer Harry the unedited memory after this conversation? It's such an easy thing for Slughorn to do. To offer the memory up compared to sacrificing your life.

[A]

That's exactly it. Yeah. Harry makes them. The math no longer works. For Slughorn to like get away from this. He basically is like, I love what you said about it being so much easier for Slughorn to, to just give up the memory than it was for the people that got killed to get killed and survive. It's just unbelievable.

[D]

And yet it's not because he's so ashamed by what he did, he's embarrassed. It's, it's interesting, the dynamics of play.

[E]

It reminded me very much of Dumbledore and Mrs. Cole in the memory. I mean, it's very similar circumstances. Right. In terms of Harry's not drinking, Dumbledore didn't drink. And he's using alcohol to elicit. Well, I think to create a comfortable environment. Number one.

[A]

Right.

[E]

A safer environment where the guard starts to fall and then he's able to elicit the information that he needs. Dumbledore is able to get the information he needs on Tom Riddle.

[A]

Yep.

[E]

And then in this case, Harry's able to get the information on Slug from the memory from Slughorn.

[A]

I like this comparison. Yeah, they're both more loose lipped as a result.

[E]

So I wonder if that was part of the reason. I'm not saying maybe Dumbledore was trying to plant a seed early on and say, hey, maybe if you want to try and get some information, you know, get Slughorn drunk.

[A]

Yeah, maybe.

[E]

Maybe not though. And I just thought that this scene in the movie was beautifully portrayed with the addition of the story of Francis the fish.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

It was one of those things that the movies added that just worked so well about how the Lily transformed into Francis and how the day Lily died, the morning slug horn came down, the bowl was empty. So just a hat tip to Jim Broadbent there because that was really. I teared up at that scene in the movies. It was just really well done.

[A]

And you get the sense that that's how magic works in the wizarding world is like, the person who cast it dies. And so the magic is no longer there. So. Yeah. Well, anyway, Harry is successful in prizing the memory out of Slughorn. And Slughorn's one wish for him as he's drawing it out is, please don't think too negatively of me for what you're about to see.

[E]

I mean, that's what it all comes down to, though, right?

[A]

Self image.

[E]

Yeah, it's self image. And he's not so different from Lockhart in Chamber of Secrets because both of them are frauds. Slughorn just wears it better.

[A]

That's an interesting take.

[D]

Yeah, I feel for Slughorn, but at the same time, so much time has passed, decades have passed since that conversation about the Horcruxes. I don't think Harry would blame him. I don't know.

[C]

You know, and, like, realistically, again, Slughorn, I think his real crime here is just being too easily flattered so that when the right person comes or the wrong person comes along wanting information they're gonna do damage with. He's able to give a. Give it away so readily. But he can't have known at the time that he told Tom about Horcruxes what he was gonna do with that information.

[A]

And so that's not necessarily the crime. We're all susceptible to flattery from time to time, but the crime is, like, not doing the right thing. Right? So, like, the right. The right thing. Once it became clear that something was up with Tom Riddle's immortality the doing the right thing would have been Slughorn finding Albus Dumbledore and volunteering. Hey, don't know if this is relevant, but, you know, I happened to tell Tom about Horcruxes and, like, here's the memory. Like, do it, like, volunteering, do the right thing, not being hunted down. Dumbledore has to send so many people after, like, Harry, after him all year to get this memory from him and then finally divulging it. That, to me, is what would make me think more negatively of Slughorn. Than if Slughorn had volunteered the information and not made it so difficult to put these puzzle pieces together.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

So it's definitely very interesting and kind of like Mrs. Cole. There's this mention of maybe Slughorn won't remember this the next day. Which is kind of a shame. I like to think he does. But when I was kind of looking ahead or thinking about this book, I'm wondering if how many moments we see between Slughorn and Harry following this moment, Harry succeeds in getting the memory from him. Harry no longer needs anything from Slughorn. So I'd be interested in kind of tracking what their relationship is like in the future. Cause if Slughorn does remember what he did or he must realize that Harry at one point just stops trailing him, stops trying to get him alone. So he must realize that he did ultimately do the right thing. But I don't think we see much Leghorn anymore after this.

[D]

I guess he's too ashamed to show his face in the pages of these novels now.

[E]

So he does remember

[A]

he has great moments in Deathly Hallows. I will say he defends the school. He does the right thing then. But yeah, it would have been an interesting sort of follow up for Harry and Slughorn. Like to have another conversation about this after Harry's seen the memory would have been an interesting kind of thing. But we'll see. We'll have a. We'll. We'll put a spy on Slughorn count segment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

Well, he's not needed as much now. Like this was his purpose. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Half Blood Prince Tumbledore's like, yeah, you can leave the school now.

[A]

Put yourself in danger.

[C]

Thanks.

[A]

By. But yeah. So I think that ultimately, as a character study on Horace Slughorn, I like that he didn't turn Harry in for being out of school. That to me felt very Tom Ridley. The way that Slughorn is willing to watch a student bend the rules and not report them. Because I think Slughorn is a very ends justify the means kind of guy. And so it's interesting seeing him be like flouted and manipulated by a student in Harry the same way he was or similar ways that he used to be for Voldemort. So I do think this is an incredible Horace Slughorn chapter. In summary. Yeah, I think that'll wrap us up. We also saw some. That there's this money component to Slughorn. I don't know, we saw him living house to house. But there's this underlying theme of financial gain which takes it back to the movie for me, all the raise you know.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. And that was very funny. But I think this was also about training Harry up for what's ahead. Like I said in the last episode.

[A]

Yeah,

[E]

it does make me wonder what kind of side hustle Slughorn has if he's trying to acquire all these. I mean, it's not so different than him acquiring students. Right, Right. It's him acquiring these very rare ingredients, which presumably he would want to use in his classes, but it seems like he wants to sell on the black market.

[A]

He just likes having him nearby. He just feels more comfortable with these students in his Rolodex. Or these potion ingredients.

[E]

Maybe, but. But that Ackermantula venom, what was it? A hundred gallons?

[A]

100 gallons a bottle?

[E]

I think that's. That's almost. I looked it up. It's like 6 or $700.

[A]

Not to mention the unicorn hair he walks away with as a bonus because Hagrid uses it to string up his, I don't know, pots and pans. Crazy. Absolute craziness. So Slughorn walks away from as a millionaire.

[C]

Listen, the man's on a teacher salary. I get it.

[A]

Fair enough. Fair enough.

[C]

Trying to make ends meet.

[A]

Ugh. So, moving over to odds and ends, we did have a single connecting the threads moment, and that is that in both this chapter and the last, Harry and Draco used something they got from Slughorn's first day of class. Isn't that exciting? So we learned that Draco got the. We talked about this on the last episode. But still, it's fun to think that. Who got the love potion? Which student walked away with some of that and utilize that successfully throughout the year? I don't know. But moving over to our links line, slash MVP of the week, here is the question we asked. When did you successfully persuade someone to do something they didn't want to do? Obviously, we don't have Felix Felicis. And how did you do it?

[D]

So I don't have a specific story, but I would just say, you know, sort of like what we see in this book with Slughorn and Harry. It just takes time to build relationships with people to earn that power of persuasion. So I would say over the years, my way of doing that type of thing would be to just build good relationships with people. You know, I scratch my back. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

[A]

I scratch my own back in front of you. Watch.

[D]

Yeah, you're like, oh, well, nice back. Scratching.

[C]

Scratching.

[D]

Mine, too. Why are you. Anyway, reciprocity is important, too. So I think, yeah, just looking out for people earning that trust, I think, goes a long way.

[A]

Time. Time, definitely. I think I've learned to. I have a role where I direct people certain things to do and go and kind of schedule their workday. And so it definitely helps to have that added component of commisery to like, oh, I know that place sucks. Like, oh, I totally feel for you. Yeah, will you do that? Awesome. And it feels. It feels like Persuasion Light, because at the end of the day, we understand there's like a job to do, but it is that added oomph of you have to become comfortable making that ask, I think. And what. What grounds you or what makes you comfortable for that kind of thing is knowing that ultimately you've done that work on building that relationship a little bit so they know you're not just some asshole asking them to do something.

[E]

I also think it just comes down to maybe allowing them to do what you're asking under their own terms or kind of where they're comfortable doing it. You know, my mind immediately goes to work kind of as the examples have been so far. It's like if you task somebody with something, just giving them the freedom to do it within their. Within their own space, as opposed to saying, this is how you have to do it. You have to follow these exact instructions. I mean, it's a little bit like Harry kind of going off and doing what the Half Blood Prince is telling him to do versus doing what maybe Slughorn is instructing him to do. Right.

[D]

Micah, can I have you share this information with somebody that I work with? And he's way too, in his own admitted words and anal about the process. And I'm like, please, just let me do it my way.

[A]

Yeah. There's this phrase of, you can tell me what to do or how to do it, but not both. Right.

[E]

I like that.

[D]

I like that.

[E]

Because you're bound to get a better result, I think. Right.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

And there are different ways to do

[D]

things, and I'm less annoyed.

[A]

We gotta get Andrew's annoying level or annoyance level down. Yeah. I think that giving people that leeway or the illusion of some level of freedom, but people just work differently. People are gonna take a task and you have to account for that factor of, you know, everybody's on the same page. We're gonna do something, but we're gonna. The way in which we're gonna do it is different. And you have to, like, account for that and step back a little.

[C]

I have a Harry Potter specific example, and this is just kind of from growing up. You know, we. We all knew people who were very anti getting into Harry Potter back in the day. I'm sure we all have someone we can think of. And for me, just like looking at all of the British royalty, British acting royalty that appears in these movies, once more of those names started going out. I'd be like, Gary Oldman is in these movies. Brendan Gleason, who's in these movies? And like those people would take an interest at that point because they were like, oh, good actors are actually in these movies. Maybe I should pay attention.

[A]

That's pretty interesting.

[D]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[A]

Kind of fomoing people into, oh, I want to see these good actors do acting.

[D]

Well, we asked patrons the same question and we got some specific stories, Matthew said. Being blessed with many relatives suffering anxiety disorders, it rarely comes down to logic or persuasion. Patience, persistence, and a big bottle of Xanax goes along.

[A]

Here, have a Xanax. Don't you feel calm? Now go do this. I like it, Carly says. I teach elementary school music and one of the most common troubles in my classroom is fifth grade boys being super uncomfortable with singing. Because we are expected to do a concert per year, every grade level in fifth grade has the added expectation of a graduation performance. It's critical that they actually participate. I have found that several things increase their willingness to sing picking songs that don't suck, which often means my students get agency when choosing repertoire, acknowledging the awkwardness and making it clear that lots of people feel awkward about singing, even their music teacher and positive feedback. You gotta let them know when they sound good. I love this.

[E]

Yeah, Rachel said. When I was a teacher, I always had to persuade students to do their work or sometimes just take out a pencil. I loved bringing in real world applications of the content to give them ways to see how the information may help them. I'm also not ashamed to say bribery with candy. The most successful strategy, though, was my classroom economy, where students earned money for things like being on time, participating in class and turning in assignments. They could use their funds to buy snacks, time on one of my math games on the computer, or lunch with a friend in my classroom. Oh, love that.

[C]

Yeah, Carly says. So I work at a childcare facility. Part of my job every day is to convince kids to do things they don't want to do, like sharing or following the rules for their own safety. For most students, logic and teaching empathy and sympathy is enough. But sometimes you got to get creative. My favorite example is when I had to start is what I had to start doing to my son to convince him to actually leave mommy's fun workplace every night. He's very into Pokemon right now and has a beautiful imagination. So to get him to leave without throwing a massive tantrum, he's three. I tell him that Dark and Ghost type Pokemon only come out at night and it's our only chance to try and catch some on our drive home. We catch Pokemon the whole way and he never fights leaving work anymore. Oh, I love that.

[A]

That's awesome.

[D]

I also love that Pokemon remains so hot.

[C]

I know.

[D]

For people of all ages. And finally, Zachary says, when we were kids, we used to have camp out back sleepovers at each other's houses. Oh, I did that too actually. Naturally, as three preteen boys, we had a knack for mischief. One time we wanted snacks from the gas station about a half mile away but didn't want to go. So my friend and I rigged a Monopoly electronic banking game so that we too ended up winning with the most money on our cards. Loser had to assume the risk of getting caught by our parents. Our third friend was none the wiser and took defeat like a champ and did the deed without question. All three of us would have normally went, but us two were too lazy and didn't want to leave. Wow.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

That's a very specific thing. Is those handheld like Monopoly gear, like those battery operated single use games that only. It was like a game console handheld, but it was. It only played one game it was programmed in.

[D]

Yeah, those were cool. Thanks everybody who participated. And if you have any feedback about today's discussion, you can email or send a voice memo to mugglecastmail.com you can also reach out via the Spotify comments or the YouTube comments or DM us on social. And next week we'll discuss Chapter 23 of Half Blood Prince Horcruxes. Visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and a lot more. And now it's time for Quiz Edge.

[A]

This week's question, which regarded the host of the television game show Password, will be resolved on our next episode of mugglecast. This has to do with when it was recorded, but as mentioned previously, there are now going to be two quizzes questions posted on the mugglecast website, including that one and the one for next week. So we'll do a roundup of two weeks of Quizzage answers next time. And here is the second quizzage question.

[D]

Wait, maybe we don't need the music.

[A]

Oh, I love it. I'm way into it right now. This is so exciting. Everyone. Okay, in. In chapter 22, we mourn the passage of a very large spider. But on which earth continent would you find this world's biggest Spideraposa blondi, AKA the Goliath bird eater? Ooh. So submit your answer.

[E]

Seven choices.

[A]

Yes, seven choices. Could be seven. Lucky seven.

[E]

Probably only six.

[A]

But sorry, no. Probably not in Antarctica. Yeah. But anyway, submit your answer to this and last week's quizzics question on the mugglecast website, mugglecast.com and if you're on that website looking up transcripts or the Must Listens page or some other cool stuff we're posting on there soon, click on Kwizzitch from the main navbar.

[D]

Thanks, everybody, for listening. I'm Andrew.

[A]

I'm Eric.

[E]

I'm Micah.

[C]

And I'm Laura.

[D]

See you next week.

[E]

Bye, everyone.

[C]

Bye, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Ra.