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Murder, Mystery & Makeup
JAIL CELL JUSTICE?! Evil Guard Gets More Than He Bargained For | Joan Little
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Hi friends, how are you today? Hi, how are you? I hope you're having a good day so far. My name is Bailey Sarian and today is Monday, which means it's murder mystery and makeup Monday if you are new here. Hi, my name is Bailey Sarian and on Mondays I sit down, I talk about a true crime story that's been heavy on my noggin and I do my makeup at the same time. If you're interested in true crime and you like makeup, I would say subscribe. If not, that's okay too. I mean, do whatever you want, you know, live your life. I know it's rough out there, so just live your life. Do whatever makes you happy. Okay, so today we're going to be talking about Joanne Little's story. And her story begins with a harrowing night that would like, change everything. A young woman alone in a cold jail cell. She's faced with a horrifying choice. Okay, submit to unspeakable violence or fight back against her attacker. Now, what happened next would thrust her into a high stakes battle for her freedom, her life and her humanity. Really, this story is kind of like wacky and all over the place. But at the end of the day, it isn't just like a story about survival. It's a tale of resilience, defiance and like the fight to uncover the truth in a case that left the nation on edge. How did one woman's desperate act of self defense spark a trial that gripped gripped the country? Today we're talking about Joanne Little, a name you might not know, but honestly, you should. You Should. I didn't know her story until I started digging it around, and I was like, oh, my God, she changed the game. She changed the freaking game. So today's story takes place in Washington, North Carolina, Carolina, in 1954. I guess at this time. It had, like, that classic sleepy Southern charm to it, but, you know, don't be mistaken. This was a Jim Crow era. So people were just, like, straight up racist and, like, period. There's, like, no nice way to say it, but that's just what it was. They were. There was kind of a spark of hope because that same year, the Brown vs Board of Education ruling came down. This essentially declared racial segregation in public schools unconstitutional. So it was kind of like, okay, like, again, that kind of glimmer of hope that things are moving forward. But in small towns like Washington, North Carolina, you know, this whole ruling was only met with resistance and tension. People didn't give a rat's ass what this ruling said. And, of course, because this is a small town, you know, communities were very tight, and gossip would spread like crazy. So Washington, North Carolina, is the town that Ms. Joanne Little was born on May 9, 1954. Joan was the oldest and, like, right after her, she literally had six younger siblings and then four half siblings. So do math. Beep, bop, boop. 10. Yeah, I liked my delay there. Okay. But, yeah, 10. So Joanne, since she's the oldest, she stepped in as, like, the parent figure to take care of her siblings. And, you know, that's the case with a lot of families, but she was dealing with a lot. Okay. Her father had left to go to New York. I guess he had a job offer out there, so he took off. And then Joanne's mom, her name was Jessie. I think maybe she was on a spiritual journey. I'm not quite sure, but she was known to visit people called root workers, who are, I guess, like healers in the hoodoo tradition now. Hoodoo tradition, Tradition. I was like, beep, bop, boop. Let me go on Google and try and figure out, what does that mean. What I learned essentially is that hoodoo, it's like a spiritual tradition and practice that originated during the enslavement of African people in the United States. And I guess it blends African spiritual practices with elements of Christianity, Native American traditions and European folklore, I believe. Yes. It combines African practices and elements of indigenous botanical knowledge. And these root workers mainly work and use plants to help with certain stuff. Potions, prayers to help people. Anyway, it's not fully clear, like, why Joanne's mom, Jessie, was with the local root workers all the time. But maybe she was working with them, helping them, I don't know. But she was spending a lot of time with them. All that to say that Joanne was the one at home taking care of everyone, and she's a kid herself. You know what's a little embarrassing? I will, well, a lot of things, but I will absolutely drop 10 bucks a month on a streaming service that I barely use. Like, honestly, Bailey, do you really need to watch Antiques Roadshow Extreme Edition? Yeah. Yes, but. No, but meanwhile, I'm not spending that same amount of money on something actually useful. You know, something purposeful, like life insurance. Yeah. Which is where Select Quote comes in. 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That's SelectQuote.com makeup on top of all that, taking care of her family and whatnot, she was also attending school. And then in 9th and 10th grade, it was said that Joanne, she picked up some. Some different jobs. You know, she had to make money to take care of the family. Poor thing. She had so much on her plate. So again, she's just a 9th, 10th grader. She was working as a waitress. She worked in the tobacco industry. And then at some point, she was working for, like, a garment. Fact. But maybe all the pressure of school and work just, like, got to her because she kind of like, got a reputation for running away a lot. And I don't blame her. You know, at one point, she had a social worker, and the social worker even referred to Joanne as an escape artist and that she developed a habit for just up and leaving at moments notice. So her teenage years got a little rocky. She stopped going to school, and she started Hanging out with the rocks crowd. You know how that goes when the teenagers start hanging out with the wrong crowd. Yeah, she was hanging out with the wrong crowd. And she's getting to, like, some, like, low, petty crimes. So to make a long story short, her mother gets involved, tries to send her away to a school for girls, but it doesn't work out. And then so her mom sends her to Philadelphia to live with family. And when she's in Philly, actually, Joanne does a lot better, and she's able to graduate high school and. And, yeah, that's great, right? She gets back on track. But then three weeks after the graduation, Joanne developed a thyroid problem. So she ended up moving back with her mom and then getting, you know, the surgery that she needed to get. So now that she's out of school, she's 18. She once again, kind of just meets the wrong people. She meets this guy. His name's Julius Rogers, and I guess he was much older than her. I forget how old, but he was older. And he ran the local pool hall. And in town, people referred to this. This guy as, like, he. This Julius guy. He. He led a fast life, you know, whatever. Yeah, he's a fast. He was reckless. Those are the quotes I read about him. Well, Joanne and this guy, they meet, they seem to hit it off, and Joanne actually ends up, like, moving in with him pretty quickly. So at this point in Joanne's life, things kind of progress. You know, her crime, the crimes and stuff, they get worse. She starts to get into, like, some serious trouble with the law. Between December 1973 and January of 1974, Joanne was arrested multiple times for theft. The guy that she was seeing and hanging out with and dating, I guess he was essentially, like, the ringleader of this group of thieves, and Joanne was included. You know, they would break into homes, rob them. That's what they did. Now, Joanne, she actually got caught a handful of times. Like, literally got caught, was arrested, but they would let her go. Reasons unclear, but it was like, girl, that was a close call. Like, stop. You know, when I was reading it, I was like, girl, just stop. Just stop now. But she didn't. You know, Joanne would end up getting arrested and charged with three separate counts of breaking and entering and larceny for driving a car with stolen plates. So for all of this, in 1974, Joanne Little would be sentenced to 10 years in prison. So Joanne, she is 20 years old at this point, and mind you, she's very petite. And she's sent to Beaufort County Jail, where she would be the only woman in there. The jail used a video system to keep the prisoners under observation, as most do, you know, which meant Joanne was monitored at all times to make sure that she was not doing anything fishy. Right. But to her it was uncomfortable. Again, she was the only lady there. And the people who are working, it's an all male staff. So there was one instance where Joanne tried to like use her bedsheet to cover the camera while she took a shower in her cell. But quickly they responded and they took all of her bedsheets away as punishment. No bedsheets for you. So Joanne has been in prison for about, I think it's like two months at this point. And at the early hours of 3 or 4am on August 27, 1974, one of the guards working that morning walked the cells as they do, to make sure that everything was good. When he gets down the line to Joanne's cell, he discovers the 62 year old officer, Clarence Olligood, dead, just laying face down, dead, with no Joanne in sight. Now, according to Joanne, this is what happened that night. Clarence Oligod was a jailer working that night. Earlier, he had brought her cigarettes and sandwiches. She said she had never asked for it and didn't know he was going to come back and ask for, quote, unquote payment. She told him no and asked him to leave, but he did not. She said he then came into her cell holding an ice pick. I know, I was like, an ice pick? It's so random. An ice pick? What? Yes, an ice pick. So the jailers would use the ice pick to like unclog drains and stuff? Yeah, I did look into it because I was like, why do they have an ice pick to unclog drains, you guys? So he. But he has the ice pick. And according to Joan, he was using the ice pick to threaten her into having oral sex. So she said she went along with it and then at one point saw an opportunity to snatch the ice pick out of his hands. So she went for it. I guess at this point the two had struggled for a bit, but Joanne was able to get the ice pick out of his hands and then stab Clarence multiple times. Joanne said that he then fell on the ground, she saw blood on his face, she grabbed some clothes, the keys off of his chain, and then she got out of there. Joanne said she went to a family member's home first, like when she escaped and they wouldn't take her in pretty much because by the time that Joanne had gotten there, the news was already out and news had spread really quickly that she was on the run, okay, and the family didn't want to put themselves in jeopardy. So then Joanne goes to an older man in her community and he goes by the name Pop Barnes. And Pop Barnes had lived across the street from her school. And like he would like sit on the porch every morning and say hello to the kids. Every day he would do that. On top of that, his house wasn't too far from the jail and Pop Barnes said that he wanted to help her, so he took her in. Shortly after, the police came to Pop Barnes home looking for Joanne. They were just going everywhere in the area, you know, and Pop Barnes, he would not give the police anything to work with. The police even came back and offered him a year's salary if he told them where Joanne was. But he still didn't turn her in. He said he wouldn't do it because he felt that she needed help. So she ends up hiding at Pop Barnes home for about six days. Meanwhile, the media got hold of this and people were listening to like, you know, the, the evening updates on the radio. So the radio is reporting like black female inmate escapes from prison, killed white jailer on the run. Just really like sending the town into a frenzy. They were all getting riled up, obviously. So people are getting all riled up and people aren't talking, right? Well, eventually some allegations about Clarence's past started to come out. Like people were like, oh yeah, like talking about Mr. Clarence over here. You see, Clarence Oligod was 62 year old white man working as a prison guard. But he actually had quite the reputation around him. He was known for giving female prisoners gifts like snacks, magazines, cigarettes, whatever, but only accepting sexual favors as payment, allegedly. What's gross is that he was known for this, which to me meant people knew he did this. You know, Clarence had been working at, you know, different prisons or in jails or whatever. And eventually he was working at Beaufort for about a year when Joanne came in. So all these allegations are coming out about Clarence. The sheriff who had worked with Clarence at the jail said that Clarence was the most security minded man they ever had there. And he had no idea about what was going on. Essentially giving a very PR answer. You know how it sounds? We are shocked and disappointed to hear of the allegations about, you know, it was like that, you're just like eye roll. But then one of Clarence's, I gotta do my makeup. I keep forgetting. Cause I just wanna tell you what happened. But then one of Clarence's friends, I don't know about that. But whatever. He starts talking. He said that him and Clarence would get coffee, like, pretty often. And this friend was very skeptical about the allegations. He told people, and essentially the press, that Clarence was too racist to be with a black woman. So, like, none of this made sense. Oh, and then Clarence's wife. Yeah. Surprise. Turns out, married, six kids. Yeah. So she comes out and she's like. She ends up agreeing with the friend. She's like, yeah, it's true. Clarence didn't like black people that much. It's like, what? But that was the defense. I don't. Okay. So at this point, though, you know, Joanne was still hiding and considered a fugitive. A local judge was actually trying to have Joanne considered an outlaw. It sounds fake. Something like, not real during this time. I don't know what the law is now, but if you were considered an outlaw, it would essentially, the law would allow anyone to seek and shoot the outlaw down. Anyone, which is wild. So people were pushing to, like, make her an outlaw because then anyone could, like, seek and shoot her down. Luckily, this received a lot of backlash, and it didn't happen. But, like, they were pushing really, really hard. And when I was learning about that law, I was like, this is so scary. They consider you an outlaw. Just anyone can come and, like, get you. Have you ever looked at your bank statement and thought, wait, what? What. What does this charge? You know? And suddenly you realize, apparently you've been paying, like, 6.99amonth for something called Digital Plus Deluxe Ultra. And I'm like, what? What? Deluxe Ultra. What? And then, like, then you keep looking, and that's not the only sneaky charge that's in there, you know? Oh, and it adds up fast. So that's when I realized I needed Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Now, the app shows you, like, all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you totally forgot about. 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I want to believe her, but I think I would run. Luckily, though, she was able to get connected with a really great lawyer in North Carolina. His name was Jerry Paul. Now, Jerry Paul was a white male lawyer lawyer who did a lot of civil rights work within the state. I guess a lot of lawyers didn't like him because he handled cases that were considered, quote, unquote, controversial, like discrimination cases and stuff like that. They're like, that's controversial. To stand up for human rights. That's crazy. Anyway, so he wanted to work with Joanne Little. So they were able to find, like, where she was located, and they made a plan to sneak her out of Pop Barnes home. They needed to have a plan because the police were constantly patrolling the area, and they were looking for her. And if she got arrested right then and there, most likely they knew, like, she was probably gonna end up dead. People were raging, fuming. They were upset. How dare she? So they came up with a plan to turn herself in. And on September 4, 1974, Jerry escorted Joanne to the state bureau, the state bureau of investigation, where she surrendered. Joanne was charged with first degree murder, which in North Carolina at the time was an automatic death sentence. So my first thought was, oh, they had all those cameras, right? Like, in the cell. Well, that probably caught everything, and it's gonna be the smoking gun. Well, of course, of course, of course. It wasn't working this week. The week of the murder. Of course. Why would it? That's so right. When does it ever work? When does camera security footage ever just work? It's so bizarre. Just a weird thing. Never works. So weird. So it wasn't working. Great. Awesome. Before turning herself in, Joanne had, like, every opportunity to leave forever, literally. There are people outside of the country who are like, hey, you can come stay here. But she refused. She said that she wanted everyone to know what happened to her and why she did it and that she wanted everyone to know the truth. So this case was set to be, like, pretty groundbreaking because it was intersecting Issues of race, gender and the right to self defense. Her argument that she killed her jailer in self defense against sexual assault. This actually marked like a significant moment in legal history, particularly in recognizing a black woman's right to defend herself against violence. Which sounds like a no brainer, but at this time, the conversation was definitely not in this direction. You know what I mean? All this media and talking in town really grew the case to something so much bigger. She drew the attention of civil rights advocates, death penalty opponents, and women's rights advocates, and they all rallied to her defense. Her defense was he was raping me and therefore I defended myself and it resulted in death. And just in case you weren't clear, there were Joanne Little legal defense committees, and these were like starting to pop up all over the United States, including a local chapter by Rosa Parks in Detroit. Yeah, if Rosa Parks is involved. They needed to step down, they needed to step away, but everyone was rallying behind her. It was incredible. Just based off of what I was reading, I wasn't there obviously, but what I was reading, there's so much support for her. And again, like nobody was talking about rape back then. It's like if you were raped, they truly had the mentality that that wasn't a thing and you must have brought it upon yourself. I am getting ahead of myself. Let me continue with the story. So Joanne's trial was to start in July of 1975. There was a report from North Carolina's Washington Daily News where they wrote, quote, clarence Ellygood was a good man who had died in the line of duty. And then the New York Times reported. For many of the whites in Washington, North Carolina, the most comfortable accommodation to the facts is that Joanne Little is a bad girl who enticed aligod, a weak man into her cell with a premeditated plan of murder. Unexpected. That's how I imagine they talked. Okay, not funny because obviously they're like trying to drag Ms. Joanne. But then there was this one quote from this lady who lived in town because, you know, a lot of the community members were coming forward and giving their two cents on everything. And this one lady, her quote had me so confused. She said, quote, even if a girl has loose morals, she should be able to pick the man she wants to be raped by. End quote. Is she on our team? Whose team is she on? I can't figure her out. I had follow up questions with that one. But just gonna let you marinate on the mindset that's going on back there. That's, that's really it. So the case was first put before a Beaufort county grand jury. Now, most thought this was just going to be an open and shut case. She murdered a guard and escaped the end. But of course, there was a lot more to the story and most of all, like the scene of the crime. As one officer put it at the time, he said that Clarence's body was found in, like, a very quite odd way. Clarence was only dressed from the top up, so he had no pants on. He was lying face down on her bed or her bunk. I also read somewhere that he was laying face down on the floor, but either way, he was laying face down. Joanne's nightgown was found on the floor of the cell. Her bra was hanging from the cell door. And then under Clarence's body was a torn woman's bandana. But a huge piece of evidence. And I think. And a lot of people thought the most important piece of evidence was actually from the autopsy. On the autopsy, it showed multiple stab wounds, but also it showed that there was semen on Clarence's leg. Leg. Leg. Ah, semen. So the medical examiner actually reached out to the court and said that he was willing to go before the the jury to explain how semen actually showed evidence of sexual activity. Therefore, she's probably not lying. But for some reason that I could not figure out, the jury declined to hear from him. I was like, why? I don't know. I don't know. Well, along with the semen, there was one stab wound that proved to be fatal, and the rest were defense wounds that were located in a way showing that someone in this case, Joanne, was fighting back. Like, there were signs of a struggle, defensive wounds. Let's be honest. The grocery store, it's a trap. Every time I walk in, I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go in. I'm going to get like, you know, whatever. Spinach, okay. And then 30 minutes later, I walk. I walk out with everything. Candy, frozen pizza. I completely forget about the spinach. And on those two things, I'm like, did I just spend $75 on two things? 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It's like having a farmer's market kind of show up at your door, but without, like, you know, the guy charging you, no offense, $12 for, like, a tomato. Come on. What are we doing? So now, instead of wandering up and down the grocery store aisles, I actually have a plan, and it's always a delicious one. Dinner is easier, healthier, and honestly, way more fun. I use Hellofresh, and you should give it a try, too. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com makeup10fm now to get 10 free meals plus a free item for life. One per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only and varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com makeup10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free item for life. Meanwhile, Joanne's defense team used to social science to get a fair trial because they knew that they were not going to get a fair trial. Okay, this had been all over the news. People are just discrediting Joanne. So they needed a new approach to jury selection. And at this time, nobody was really doing this. So again, this is, like, groundbreaking on multiple levels. So Joanne's team did surveys comparing the attitudes of white people towards black people between Beaufort and Pittsburgh counties. Turns out about two thirds of respondents in both counties believed that black women were more sexual than white women. And also many believed that black people were just more violent than white people. In the end, the survey results showed that both counties were pretty racist, but it seems stronger in Beaufort County. So with this data behind them, Joanne's team, they petitioned to have her trial moved somewhere else where it was, you know, so she could have a fair. A fair trial. So it ends up getting approved. So Joanne's trial moved to the state capitol, Raleigh. And with this, they felt Joanne would be able to have a fair trial. So luckily, with this, they get their new trial, right? And in Raleigh, the jury was split evenly between black and white jurors. So this at least is off to a better start. But Joanne's defense team, they weren't fully focused on the jury. Joanne's case was getting more and more attention, and with that, her team was also trying to make sure that her case was staying, like, front and center in the media spotlight and that people were talking about it. The Free Joanne campaigns were so successful that Joanne's defense team were able to get the free first degree murder charge reduced to a second degree murder charge, which essentially meant that the death penalty was now, like, off the record. Finally, the proceedings began. The state had brought in, like, a handful of prosecutors. One specifically was named Lester Chalmers. He was assigned to this case as a prosecutor. Now, it was said that Lester. Lester. Anyone named Lester, first of all, red flag. But Lester would wear a tie in court that had the KKK sign on it, because he actually represented the kkk. So he was brought in to, you know, work this case. So it was just, like, not off to a good start there. Right. But the prosecution's strategy was to really push this idea that Joanne was a hypersexual woman, and essentially, like, they were gonna show that she was a slut, a floozy, a hoe, and that was essentially what they were going to focus on. And they had one theory that they were just gonna freaking present to the courts. Joanne wanted to get out of her cell, so she lured the man in, she stabbed him, and then she escaped. Bada bing, bada boom. They were thinking, that's it. That's exactly what it is. It's nothing more than that. That was their strategy. But during the trial, other women actually came forward to testify about Clarence's history of sexual assault in prison, which was great for Joanne's team, you know, so the prosecutors were a little taken off guard with this one. They're like, yeah. And so what? Joanne took the stand, and throughout two days of testimony, she told the court her side, and it was the same thing. I mean, Clarence was twice her size, and he had come to her cell three times between 10pm and 3am to solicit sex. She told the court that he threatened her with an ice pick and then forced her to perform oral sex. Joanne testified that she had been able to grab the ice pick when Clarence orgasmed. And he let his guard down. Yes. I love that. That's when they are the weakest. So he jizzed and then, like. And she, like, grabbed it, and I guess then she stabbed him repeatedly. And he resisted and tried to wrestle her, but he fell weak, fell to the ground. And Joanne was able to get free. You know, the ice Pick the weapon that was used to stabilize Clarence. Originally, they could not find the murder weapon. It took quite some time to locate it because one of the deputies had actually put it in his locker and essentially pretended he had no idea where it was. When they found it in his locker, he was like, what? That's crazy. That's so crazy. I didn't know it was there. That's so crazy, you guys. That's so crazy. So while the prosecution was trying to smear Joanne as a sexual woman, her team strategy was to show that it was self defense. She was defending herself. Now, they knew it would be difficult because again, back then, rape wasn't seen as a thing. It was like, what? That doesn't happen? The blame would always be put on to the victim. You know, they'd say stuff like, well, they brought it onto themselves. You know, that's the only way a woman could get raped. What was she wearing? Was she outside? Yeah, well, that's her fault. But the autopsy did not lie. It revealed that Joanne's retelling of the incident was true. Apparently, Clarence, his stab wounds showed clear signs of self defense, and only one stab wound had been fatal. On top of that, the semen. Well, for the first time, it really seemed like people were listening and believing Joanne's story and account to be true. So on August 15, 1975, the jury, they had deliberated for just over an hour. Now the room was tense. People didn't know how this was going to go. But the jury had returned to the courtroom and handed their verdict to the judge. Not guilty. Oh, man, I wish I could have been there. I couldn't imagine the cheering. The New York Times reported that Joanne began crying when the verdict was read aloud. And when she was leaving the courthouse, she said, quote, it feels good to be free, end quote. Her words, like, captured the relief and triumph of that moment. But also they signaled something bigger. Joanne's victory wasn't just hers. I mean, it showed that even in a dark place, the truth can shine through and justice can, can win. I wish I could tell you this ends on a high for Joanne, but, you know, after all of this, let me get my eyelash on and I'll tell you. So after all this, you know, she still had to serve time for the original sentence or the charge that she had, so she would spend a few years in prison. Then in 1977, she broke out of prison. I know, I was like, no, girl, we're rooting for you. We're all rooting for you. Joanne ends up getting Caught like two months later. And of course, like, you know, she gets time added to her original charge. In a later interview, Joanne said that, look, she's like, I escaped because she was fed up with how she was being treated in there. She said she was being treated unfairly and that she had gotten some test results back saying that she might have tb, but like, no one was doing anything about it. She wasn't feeling well, but there was. She wasn't getting help, so she escaped. So she ran away. She got caught. She had to like serve out the rest of her sentence, which she did. And she was released in 1979. Now after this, Joanne was living in New York, but unfortunately she was convicted in 1990 for possession of drugs with intent to distribute and was sentenced to 17 years in prison. Now is when I put on lip liner because I'm like, damn, girl, I feel, I felt bad. Well, look, this is a bigger conversation really, because once you're in the system, it's hard to get out. And then Also in the 90s, that's when the crack versus cocaine thing was going on. Right. I feel like a lot of people got really just became a victim to that. She was officially released in 2002 at the age of 48. But since then, she's really just disappeared from public view. I don't really blame her. I don't know. That's her choice, right? But I hope she's doing well. I hope she's taking care of herself and I hope she's living a good life at the end of the day. You see, Joanne was the first woman to be acquitted of murder committed in self defense against sexual assault. Her case challenged society by like successfully arguing that her actions were a legitimate response to a sexual assault, which was actually a really crazy legal stance at that time. Her murder trial put national attention on the issues of a woman's right to defend herself from rape. Joanne's case even inspired women's rights rights movements like abroad. There's this group in Denmark called Joanne Sostrene Girl I don't know, which is essentially just translates to the Joanne sisters. I wanted to do this story because the story of Joanne Little just reminds us that justice, while it's not always swift, can prevail when people refuse to stay silent. I mean, it's a testament to the strength found in community, the importance of standing up for what's right, and the change that can happen when voices unite. And it was such like a groundbreaking case, a pivotal moment that rape is bad, bitch. But thanks to Joan little and standing up and everyone who rallied and supported her. I mean, things changed. You can now, I don't know, go to court and say, like, hey, this dude raped me and I was defending myself. What a concept, huh? But we didn't. We couldn't do that before anyhow. So, yeah, she may have made some mistakes, got caught up with the wrong people, but she also had a huge impact on all of us. Really. So, yeah. But other than that, I hope you have a good day. You make good choices, you be safe out there, and you take care of yourself, too. Okay? All right, great. I'll be seeing you guys later. Goodbye.
- [42:17]
C
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- [42:50]
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