Anime Atrophied Our Extra Leg Muscle (with Che Durena)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Anime Atrophied Our Extra Leg Muscle (with Che Durena)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: My Momma Told Me
• Hosts: Langston Kerman and David Borey (Big Money Players Network and iHeartPodcasts)
• Guest: Che Durena
• Episode: Anime Atrophied Our Extra Leg Muscle
• Release Date: December 10, 2024

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1. Introduction to the Conspiracy Theory

In this episode of "My Momma Told Me," hosts Langston Kerman and David Borey welcome comedian and podcast host Che Durena to discuss a provocative Black conspiracy theory: that the rise of anime, particularly through programming blocks like Toonami, was intentionally designed to distract Black youth from pursuing athletic excellence. This, they argue, allowed white demographics to bridge the athletic performance gap.

• Che Durena [10:07]: “I think I said something like, he understood the assignment.”

2. Anime as a Strategic Diversion

Che Durena introduces the central theory by sharing insights from her father, who believed that networks like Toonami targeted Black youth to divert their focus from sports to entertainment, thereby weakening their athletic pursuits.

• Che Durena [10:58]: “They are trying to suck your athletic ability out of you by getting you addicted to Goku.”

David Borey elaborates on how anime like Dragon Ball Z became a compelling distraction, making youth prioritize watching anime over engaging in sports activities.

• David Borey [10:20]: “You could see it as distracting...if you want to make the full Drake empire, you gotta destroy Filipino Drake.”

3. Personal Experiences and Cultural Impact

The discussion delves into Che’s personal experiences growing up with anime and confronting the societal expectations placed upon her. She recounts feeling ashamed of her anime interests during her youth, only to later embrace them as they became culturally mainstream.

• Che Durena [27:11]: “I was deeply, deeply ashamed of it. I never thought it was cool until it started to resonate in the culture.”

She contrasts this with her father’s perspective, who viewed anime as a negative influence that hindered academic and athletic success.

• Che Durena [43:38]: “It was more of an insecurity about watching it. It wasn’t like, I thought that I’m letting my race down or something.”

4. The Role of Toonami and Media Strategies

The hosts and Che analyze the strategic timing and cultural adaptations of Toonami, suggesting that it was designed to align with the interests of Black youth by incorporating hip-hop elements and urban culture, thereby making anime more appealing to this demographic.

• David Borey [46:39]: “They timed it in a way where it was respectful of you saying goodbye to your friends, but as soon as you get home, do you know what I mean?”

Che highlights how Toonami’s programming blocks were tailored to maintain high engagement levels, effectively keeping youth indoors and diverting their attention from athletic and academic pursuits.

• Che Durena [46:29]: “With the way they did the intros that were like hip hop focused. And I think they knew that they were tapping into a new audience.”

5. Impact on Athleticism and Community

The conversation explores the broader implications of this alleged strategy on Black athleticism. Che and David discuss how diverting youth from sports could have long-term impacts on community strength and representation in athletics.

• Che Durena [54:32]: “They're trying to suck your athletic ability out of you by getting you addicted to Goku.”

David reflects on his own experiences, feeling torn between his passion for basketball and the compelling allure of anime.

• David Borey [48:31]: “They want you addicted to Goku... they're trying to suck your athletic ability out of you.”

6. Evolution of Toonami and Media Influence

The hosts trace the evolution of Toonami from its inception in 1997 to its eventual shutdown in 2008, analyzing how its focus shifted over time and how it began to incorporate more mature and diverse content, potentially reinforcing the distraction theory.

• Che Durena [52:12]: “There was a clear pivot to being like, no, this is... we're going to make this a little bit more black.”

David adds that Toonami’s success was not necessarily due to a grand conspiracy but rather a strategic response to audience preferences and market demands.

• David Borey [48:31]: “You put some shit out and you see who's biting, and then you really start fishing for that.”

7. Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

As the episode wraps up, the hosts and Che reflect on the interplay between media influence and youth behavior. They ponder whether such strategies, if they exist, are intentional or merely the result of market dynamics and cultural shifts.

• Che Durena [72:53]: “They put a bunch of cash in his pocket, too, like being on the WWE... He was raking it in.”

• David Borey [76:43]: “Che, as it relates to your dad presenting this conspiracy, this is nonsense, but it does live in your head a little bit.”

Notable Quotes:

• Che Durena [10:58]: “They are trying to suck your athletic ability out of you by getting you addicted to Goku.”
• David Borey [46:39]: “They timed it in a way where it was respectful of you saying goodbye to your friends, but as soon as you get home, do you know what I mean?”
• Che Durena [54:32]: “They’re trying to suck your athletic ability out of you by getting you addicted to Goku.”
• David Borey [48:31]: “They want you addicted to Goku... they're trying to suck your athletic ability out of you.”
• Che Durena [72:53]: “They put a bunch of cash in his pocket, too, like being on the WWE... He was raking it in.”

Conclusion

This episode of "My Momma Told Me" offers an intriguing exploration of how media, particularly anime through Toonami, might intersect with cultural and athletic dynamics within the Black community. Through personal anecdotes and analytical discussions, hosts Langston Kerman and David Borey, alongside guest Che Durena, examine the potential implications of media influence on youth behavior and community strength. While blending humor with serious contemplation, the episode encourages listeners to critically evaluate the cultural forces shaping their lives.

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Note: This summary deliberately omits advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions of the episode.

Transcript

[Langston Kerman]

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[David Borey]

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[Che Durena]

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[David Borey]

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[David Borey]

My Mama Told Me presents. The Start the Steel Tour. We're very excited about it.

[Che Durena]

Yes.

[David Borey]

I'm not about to bite my tongue. We want to sell it out, and the dates are coming up fast. And so if you live in one of these areas, we want you to buy your tickets now. It's all available on our Instagrams, on our websites, on our link tree. December 12th, we're in Seattle, and December 15th, you're closing it out in Portland, Oregon. We want y'all to come out. We want y'all to kick it. We will be doing our coveted live show with special guests with just me and David depending on the city. It'll be a great time.

[Che Durena]

All that meet and greets. You think Chris Brown has a good.

[David Borey]

Meet and greet, bro? Let's be clear. I'll take a weird picture with you for free.

[Che Durena]

I reference it a lot when I'm. Like, when I. When I do stand up, I try to perform sober all the time. But then if I have, like, a big gig coming up, I'll. Like, before the gig, maybe I'll have a couple drinks. Cause then you're getting loosened up. But the performing sober most of the time is like how Goku normally fights. And then there would always be that point where the villain thinks they kind of have the edge. And then he takes off the weighted clothes, and he's like, well, I'm not even fighting at full potential right now. So when I have the couple drinks, I'm taking the weights off and I'm like, now we're really going, dude. Yeah.

[David Borey]

Oh, who?

[Che Durena]

Dangerous habit to get into.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's why you save it for when need it. You'll see.

Don't let that bleed into your realm.

[David Borey]

Start taking shirts off that don't have any weight. You know what I mean?

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then now you're taking shirts off to drive to the grocery store.

[David Borey]

Exactly.

[Che Durena]

Like, man, talking to my family's hard. Are you sure I take my shirt off? Yeah.

[David Borey]

If I get a drink and take my shirt off, I'll feel better. That'll help.

[Che Durena]

I can tell my dad what he needs to hear.

[David Borey]

Yeah. The government growing babies. Microchips in your anis. All koala bears are racist. The ozone layer owes me money.

[Che Durena]

Marshy's invented turkey stuffing. Y'all can't tell me nothing.

[David Borey]

Mustard. There it is. There it is, ladies and gentlemen, gentiles and little mamas alike, there it is. Welcome to another Friday phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where.

[Che Durena]

We dive deep into the pockets of.

[David Borey]

Black conspiracy theories and we work to prove that while Kendrick did absolutely win the battle, he's only won the battle against one of Drake's horcruxes. That's right, folks. He took down white Drake, but there is still Jamaican Drake. There is still Zimbabwe and Drake. You goddamn right. There's a Filipino Drake out there that Kendrick is going to have to destroy if he plans on taking down the full Drake empire. I am Langston Kerman.

[Che Durena]

I'm David Borrey, and I'm all for it.

Yeah. Do I jump in now?

Yeah, come on in.

Yeah, right. I'm Jade Raina. Hi. Thanks for having me. Yeah.

[David Borey]

We were going to intro you more formally, but I'm. I'm happy to let you talk now, and then we'll do it again after.

[Che Durena]

The Drake stuff is very. Hits close to home because I am Canadian. I lived in Toronto for a long time. Yeah. I mean, we can't deny that Drake wasn't absolutely bodied. He was decimated in this rap battle. But I would say probably the final form of Drake is like, Toronto patois. Drake, which is one of my favorite versions of Drake. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Toronto slang and that kind of stuff.

Oh, brother, I've done a deep dive. Oh, youth in Mississauga are beat, fam.

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Yeah. You're. You're.

[Che Durena]

White.

[David Borey]

Hood rats are unnerving.

[Che Durena]

So good. We got white hood rats. We got Indian hood rats. We got all sorts of. Definitely, if you like West Indies, all that kind of area. Yeah, we got a lot. A lot of.

[David Borey]

But it's not just that they are, because those. Those exist in America, but it's confidence with which they move through the goofiest accent that I've ever heard in my life.

[Che Durena]

Jarring.

Yeah.

[David Borey]

It's like, man, you can sound like that, but you're not going to scare me that way. I don't know what's happening.

[Che Durena]

The one girl who, like, sent it to the stratosphere on that interview when she's like, yo, you left your mom in the hoods. Sick to my stomach foam. That chick. I love that chick so much, dude. I think about her multiple times. Multiple times a week. That'll just pop in my head. I'll be, like, making food. I'll just be, like, sick to my stomach foam.

[David Borey]

It's.

[Che Durena]

I Love that. Because I like hearing how trash talks in different places. You know what I mean? Like, everybody's got their people that talk like that that they don't want us to know about. And it's like, oh, that one is so dirty.

Yeah, they sound dirty. Yeah.

[David Borey]

I feel like. I feel similarly. It makes me feel the same as when I get to try McDonald's in a different country. I'm like, ah, this is. This is the same. But I had to know. I had to know. What the fuck?

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Borey]

You're putting mayonnaise over here. Okay.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, I always do that. I was in Japan. I was like, let's see what they're cooking up over here. And they had, like, a teriyaki, like, chicken breakfast sandwich. And they also serve you in Japan. They bring it to your table. They're like, here, take your number. Bring it to you. Like, oh, and the bathroom had a bidet. Dude, you could rinse your butt at the McDonald's. That's.

[David Borey]

The Japanese really bounced back, you know?

[Che Durena]

Oh, yeah.

[David Borey]

I think we did some nasty to them, but they really found their footing afterwards. Oh, yeah, I think that's fair to say. They've really taken over culture in all the best ways. And. And they don't even. They not even resenting us for it. Ain't that crazy. Ain't that crazy that they don't want to kill us every day?

[Che Durena]

If anything, they feel bad about it. They're like, hey, guys, sorry. Sorry we got so crazy.

[David Borey]

And we're like, you know what I yelled back there? And, yeah, you deserve to shoot me in the face for that yell. I shouldn't have yelled.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Our guest today, you've already heard. You've already heard his voice. You've heard other Canadian patois versions of his voice. We're very excited he's here. He's a very funny comedian you've seen all over the Internet, especially his podcast Ass Dark Holes with Shay Dana, and. And also he's on tour, and if you want to see him on tour. Very funny. Go see him at Shade or go get the tickets. You can't see [e-mail] but you can get the tickets there. I talk better sometimes. Our guest today, he's wonderful. Give it up for Che Durena, everybody.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me on. This is very fun. Very excited.

[David Borey]

It's gonna be fun.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

You came to us with a conspiracy that immediately. Bori and I. Bori, what was our reaction, would you say?

[Che Durena]

I think I said something like, he understood the assignment.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

It was. It was immediately green flagged.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not like some of these other films we have on here.

[David Borey]

A lot of times we ask people to come up with a topic for this show and the feedback is tough. It's the first thought they had. There's not a lot of effort put into a second thought. And then we go, you got a second thought? And they go, give me a week. And it's just work getting them to fucking find their footing. But you nailed it right from the beginning. You said, my mama told me Tanami was created to attract black youth to stay home after school instead of sports, so white dudes could start to close the athletic gap.

[Che Durena]

Now, who sent you? That's a great sound drop, dude. I might have to steal that for my own pod. That one.

[David Borey]

Look, we. We played the bad one for you ahead of time because, you know, we gotta give you a taste.

[Che Durena]

Absolutely.

[David Borey]

Okay, I got a.

[Che Durena]

Thank you.

I got a bag over here.

Yeah. But, yeah, I got exposed to Toonami a little late in comparison to the rest of people. Because in Canada, we didn't have Toonami. We had, like, a broken version. We had like. Yeah, we had, like, Teletoon. We had Cartoon Hour. We had like, YTV was big over there. We had, like, really bastardized versions of what you guys were cooking up in America. Like, you guys had Disney Channel, we had Family Channel. It was all like, gross, dude. It's literally like fucking week.

You guys had Johnny Monsoon instead of Johnny Tsunami.

Exact kind of stuff. Yeah, it was so lame, dude. It's like, I want to watch cartoons. We got cartoons at home. That was the vibe, dude. That was the vibe.

[David Borey]

We don't need Johnny Bravo. We got Anthony Clap Claps.

[Che Durena]

He's just as good. I remember I would see commercials for Cartoon Network and I would just be like, oh, man, I wish I could watch Cartoon Network. I wanted to see.

They showed you the commercials, but you couldn't get the channel.

Yeah, yeah, you get commercials and stuff.

[David Borey]

That's nasty.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, dude. You couldn't get it. And then my parents got one of those boxes, you know, those boxes that just got like, everything. And it was like, very like, shh, don't tell anyone about this. And it would just get, like, all the channels. So then I got exposed to Toonami and I was like, oh, this stuff rips, dude. And my dad hated it. My dad hated. My dad hated cartoon. He hated cartoons in general. Cartoons in general.

What is your dad's history that he hates?

Whimsy he said so my dad. My dad's from Haiti. And so. Yeah, so that explains a lot of things himself.

[David Borey]

You're not trying to watch Anthony Clap Claps waste his time. Your dad's a survivor. He ain't got time for bullshit.

[Che Durena]

Totally. And like, any, like, where are your parents from in the States?

No, my mom's sincerely owned.

Okay, okay. So you understand like a foreign parent. Not only. They're like, this doesn't make any sense. There's like an air of like. They're like, whatever you're watching here, this is like weakening you. And I don't like that it's weakening you. And also a lot of this stuff, like, where it was like Pokemon or Digimon or Yu Gi oh, these ones turned into like, I'm buying cards. So now it's like, costing money. They were like, no, no, no, no. One time we were driving in the car home, and I'm in the car with my dad, and I asked him if we could like, stop at, like a corner store, a little store, just so I could buy some Yu Gi oh cards. And he's like, why you want to buy these cards? You know, one day you're gonna have all these cards. No one's going to talk to you, and all your friends are going to be dead. Damn.

Which is true, but.

Which is true.

[David Borey]

It may have not wrong, but rephrased a little soft and the blow.

[Che Durena]

And really what it was was they just. He didn't want to spend money on these cards. Like, to him it was wasting money. He didn't want to waste money. And that was what he was trying to get across. But he had a way of, like, trying to work stuff in, like, these mystical things that he. It either had to be like, very philosophical or have like, a much deeper meaning than what he was trying to get done. Like.

[David Borey]

So if I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like he took it all the way to the end of being like, no, this is to empower white people.

[Che Durena]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[David Borey]

To beat us in sports. This wasn't just you sort of taking his learnings and advancing the chess piece.

[Che Durena]

I'd say I do have another pertinent question. How were you at sports?

I was decent. I don't think I was good at the sports that they wanted me to be good at. They put me in soccer and I yugioh. I was like, nah, soccer, dude. Soccer takes place on Saturday mornings when the cartoons are hot dog. When the cartoons were hot and we're outside and Canadian soccer sucks on Like, a whole other level. Because you're outside in the cold, you're, like, running around in the mud. And I grew up in, like, an hour outside of Vancouver. Vancouver rains, like, there was one month where it rained 29 out of 30 days in the city I lived in. So you were out in the mud in the cold. I'm missing Power Rangers, I'm missing Pokemon. Ash and Charizard are bonding for the first time, and I'm out here in the mud, like, no, thanks, dude. No, thanks.

[David Borey]

Yeah, that Pokemon has been mean to him for two evolutions. And he finally figured it out. This is huge, dude.

[Che Durena]

So, yeah, so my dad was like. He was big on, like, he ate. I think some of the stuff he had, like, an actual. Like, he believed it. And some was. He had to create some a lie in order for him to, like, try and get you to where he wanted you to go. I remember one time he told my nephew, my nephew was peeing on the toilet seat. And instead of telling him, like, hey, clean up after yourself, or, like, lift the toilet seat or, like, whatever you're doing, whatever you're doing, you're doing it wrong. Don't pee on the toilet seat. My dad wanted him to sit when he peed. And he. So he was like, you know, if you sit when you pee, you're not gay. And he was like. He was like, what?

[David Borey]

He's like, yeah, you can see it when you pee.

[Che Durena]

It doesn't matter.

[David Borey]

We all do it. I'll say this. Look how progressive your dad was. Do you know what I mean? Because there's a different version of your dad that could have been like, you got to stop peeing on my seat. And if you sit, you gay. Figure it out.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

You know what I mean? Like, taking it all the way. He's like, hey.

[Che Durena]

I could have used that in my life, man. I still get nervous about if I pee sitting down. I get scared somebody's going to walk in.

Oh, yeah, I think so.

[David Borey]

My wife literally walked in on me doing it. Not today.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

And it is a low. It is a low.

[Che Durena]

And you're like, I was shitting. I swear I was shitting. I swear.

It sticks in here.

[David Borey]

It's sticky here. I just took the biggest dump of my life. I swear to fucking God. Look, I'm taller. I'm taller because of it. Look.

[Che Durena]

Oh, my God.

It's the most vulnerable. I'd rather you pull up on me in the shower. I would rather you pull up on me washing my butt crack than walk in on Me sitting down to pee.

[David Borey]

I'm so low, man.

[Che Durena]

You just want to take a load off, man. You're just like, hey, I just. I would love to take a seat right now. It's nice to pee and check your phone. I like that.

[David Borey]

I also have that thing. And I don't know if this is relatable. It scares me every day, but I have that thing where all the pee doesn't fully finish in one, just one shot. You know what I mean? Like, some guys just get to shake and walk away, and I gotta wait a minute to see if I'm all the way finished. And so sitting helps that?

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, I don't want.

It takes a long time to traverse long tunnels, man. Don't feel bad about it.

[David Borey]

Hey, come on, man. Or short tunnels with a little maze inside. You know what I mean?

[Che Durena]

Either one.

[David Borey]

Maybe you got.

[Che Durena]

You just gotta travel around a bend. I never seen your penis give my.

Youth group just a zigzag.

[David Borey]

A little bit over here. You know what I mean?

[Che Durena]

Oh, my God.

[David Borey]

Sitting. Sitting helps that. That happen. So.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, no, I was just curious, what is your. What is everyone's standing up to sitting down ratio, and then we can keep.

Oh, I'm definitely major. I thought. I think I'm probably like an 80, 20 stand. To sit. Yeah, I'm standing way more than I'm sitting because I'm the opposite where, like, if I sit, I find when I stand, then just this, like, next little dribble of pee comes out. So when I'm standing, I'm like. I gotta, like. I get. I know I get all the pee out. That's my thing.

[David Borey]

Yeah, I got you, Bori.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm 80, 22. I mean, it's time. It's a time thing.

Yeah.

If it's from the hours of like, 1:00am to 5:00am yeah, I'm gonna sit down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair.

[David Borey]

I'm probably close. I'm like 75, 25. If I might be a little more than you boys, but I'm similar. I think part of me wonders if that's just patriarchy and truly fear of somebody's daddy calling me gay and not being able to overcome it. But I also think the speed at which getting the piece standing up hits, you can't match it. Ladies, Good luck. You know what I mean?

[Che Durena]

You can have the White House. You won't take the bathroom.

[David Borey]

If it's a relay race, bitch. You lost. Yeah. What are you gonna do about it?

[Che Durena]

I Made this meme once that was. It was a lady, she was showing this, like, little paper thing you could buy that you could, like, fold open and you could, like, put it up to your vagina and then pee in any place. It worked as, like, a little funnel. And I tagged that with the scene from Invincible, where Omni man is like, look at what they need for a fraction of our power.

[David Borey]

Yeah. It surely. It's a beautiful thing that we've been blessed with, and we should be more appreciative and maybe more respectful about the challenges that others have not been blessed with.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, true.

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Anyway, so your dad hated Toonami so much that he then created a theory. I'm not even gonna call it a fiction at this point. I think it very much in my mind, I read it and I go, God damn, this shit kind of. It hits a little bit. It doesn't.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Borey]

It doesn't feel all the way wrong to me, Bori. I don't know if you felt the same way. I was like, God damn, he kind of spitting.

[Che Durena]

It's kind of one of the biggest. That is one of the biggest white conspiracies that I believe in. I think that they hate that we run sports like that.

Yeah. You think it's like a combination.

You understand? I think they've been trying to close that gap for. I think anything they could do. I think they're desperate. I mean, we're even sneaking up in baseball, like, bro. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I mean, in basketball, they're like, let's go to. We're going to Serbia. Where can we find someone who can really ball across?

Where are our strongest ones?

Yes.

[David Borey]

Yeah.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

Cause come on, man. You don't think there are guys. The University of Kentucky. You think all the men in Kentucky want to root for those boys on that team?

Yeah.

[David Borey]

No, you're like, yeah.

[Che Durena]

No, no, no.

You know what I mean? I think a lot of times that's the one thing that fucks up their politics. It's like, God damn, Zion is just so good.

[David Borey]

Yeah. I think it's also the thing that makes them turn on our athletes when they fuck up so quickly. You know what I mean? Like, Zion, was that where everybody's like, he's a God. He's the greatest thing that's ever happened. And then you saw that weird lady he was fucking with the bbl, and everybody's like, look, I don't know.

[Che Durena]

You fat fuck.

[David Borey]

You sick fat boy.

[Che Durena]

There'll never be anything.

[David Borey]

You fat piece of shit. It's like, hey, man, you liked him like six weeks ago. You're being weak.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah.

It's a lot of the reason they turn off to the games, too. I remember a friend's dad in high school being like, ah, basketball. Just with all the tattoos and the chain and it's like, just say you don't like Allen Iverson.

Yeah, yeah.

[David Borey]

Come on, man.

[Che Durena]

And it's like you remember, like, how much they love late Larry Bird. Like Boston having like a white God on the. On the court. Oh, my God, yes. We're doing it. We're doing it. They really thought it was like, say that they thought Larry Bird was going to be like the birth of a new time, that, like, this was going to be the orc. No, it was an anomaly. He was a Sega Genesis. He popped in white chocolates.

Are like Highlanders. There's one every, like, there's always one.

[David Borey]

Yeah, but there are also those guys who, like, I think about, like, Kevin McHale, right? Who was named one of the 50 greatest players of all time. You hear all this legend of the greatness of Kevin McHale. I ain't seen no highlight take brother once to that.

[Che Durena]

Brother. Yeah, brother.

[David Borey]

Do you know what I mean? Like, when did Kevin McHale do all that 100?

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

I ain't seen him do nothing cool. I haven't seen anything that felt stand out. It just looked like a gangly to me. And apparently he was the best.

[Che Durena]

That's crazy. Yeah.

No, Larry. Larry Bird's got documentation, you know, Come on.

[David Borey]

Larry went crazy. I watch those Larry tapes and I go, nah, they were right about this one. That boy on top of corn, he figured it out.

[Che Durena]

And like talking shit on the court, too. I love when a dude is just like. Like, his trash talk game is unbelievable. That's a big part of it for me. One of my favorite moments in sports. I don't know if you guys watch UFC at all, but there was. There's Khabib fighting Michael Johnson. And he's beating. He's like, just pounding him. He's ground and pounding him. And as he's ground and pounding him, he's like Russian trash talking him where he's. He's not saying, like, you suck. He goes, you know, I'm better than you. Just give up, just give up. You know, I deserve to be the champion. I deserve the title. Like, he's like psychologically, like, trying to convince him that he's a loser and that he should just give up the fight. Like, that's one of the most savage.

Tracks Mother's Porsche tastes like shit.

Yeah. He's like, yeah, you can't. You're weaker than me. It's okay. It's okay to give in to your weakness.

[David Borey]

Like what foreigners. Foreigners don't have the ability to translate into colloquialisms. They just say the thing as a feeling. And so it hurts way more.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. I think we should come back to that.

[David Borey]

And you will never be more than me. And that is because God made it that way.

[Che Durena]

And you're experiencing that right now. You're like, oh, my God, dude.

[David Borey]

I think that's good.

[Che Durena]

I don't think it all gotta be an AND one T shirt. I think sometimes it should just be like, you are a small man. I'm dominating.

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Shooting from the hip.

[Che Durena]

Shooting from the hip, man.

You're inferior to what I am. That's what I want to hear.

I was gonna say Toonami did capture many black youths into loving anime. That was like, really the catalyst and their intro and everything was like. It sounded like hip hop. Like, they knew. They were like, we're capturing these young kids and we're getting them into this groove. And there's like. Was like a wave of black people being obsessed with anime after, like, the presence of Toonami, like Dragon Ball Z, Narada, Naruto, Bleach, all these shows where, like, people got hooked on them.

[David Borey]

It was unbelievably huge for me. The transformation it made in my life could not. I can't articulate it well enough to say how big fucking Toonami was for me. It truly changed everything.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. Did you ever see. And it went across, like, all cultures. Like, have you seen. Did you see the thing where Dragon Ball Z Sparkling 0 came out, that there was that new Dragon Ball Z fighting game and cartel crime dropped. The cartel was like, we need to take a break, guys. They all called in sick.

[David Borey]

We gotta tap in.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

Yeah, dude.

[David Borey]

Yeah, we'll be back. We gotta. Goku, turn blue now.

[Che Durena]

So I gotta. Yeah, I got something more important.

[David Borey]

Let's see what that feels like to be in charger. Bori, were you an anime kid?

[Che Durena]

Not at all. No, man. I was like. I watched. I watched Dragon Ball Z and I was deeply, deeply ashamed of it. When it was on after school, you remember, for a few years, like, I want to say junior high school era, it was on after school. And I was deeply, deeply ashamed. I was so surprised years later when it, like, kind of arose in the culture and people were talking about it and I was like, oh, this is cool. This is cool.

Yeah, it slides.

[David Borey]

Oh, it really. Like, you didn't see the vision for it at all.

[Che Durena]

And I don't watch any other. Like, I had. I've had, like, roommates who were like, watch Ninja scroll or whatever. But, yeah, I didn't do Ninja Scroll.

It's the most generic anime.

That's how, you know. I don't. I'm not in there.

I would say if you do anything. If you do anything. If you watch one, just a good show.

Listen, Che, let me stop you right there. I won't.

Oh, you got. I just confirmed, my buddy. I just got a good time with you nerds.

I'm not going to do that.

[David Borey]

Buddy. You don't got to convince me. I'm still. I'm still tapped in. I got a Crunchyroll account and I used it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm fully in it, but damn.

[Che Durena]

You gotta stay updated. It's cooking now. Better than ever, dude. Better than ever.

[David Borey]

It really is.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

There have been, like, three animes in the past, like, two years that. That are going to, in my opinion, be competitive with the fucking top three. You know what I mean? The big three. Whatever the fuck. Like, they're going crazy right now. Bori, you're fine. I'd say you're missing out, but the truth is, it has not benefited me in conversation with most people. It certainly didn't help me get pussy at any point in my life. I wish that I grew up in an era where that was true, but it didn't do it for me. And I got married before it became cool enough that I could take advantage of it now. So now, you know, here's the thing.

[Che Durena]

I've approached it from multiple angles. It just. My brain turns off. I've tried. I've sat and tried many times, and it's just like, I just. I can't. But I like seeing specifically black people be into it. I love a niche black person.

[David Borey]

Okay.

[Che Durena]

And I love seeing what you're not a bully.

[David Borey]

You're not put on.

[Che Durena]

No, not at all. Not at all. Listen, I'm not saying I was doing anything better. You know what? Okay. I was smoking weed in bushes. That's not really cool either. A skill that did not give me any pussy either. You know what I mean?

Are.

[David Borey]

You ain't getting no pussy from the bush? Bush weed.

[Che Durena]

No bush pussy for me, baby.

No bush pussy for me.

I had to play a varsity sport to unlock that door.

I mean, that's good, though. Yeah.

[David Borey]

Yeah.

[Che Durena]

That's a good quick pathway to Pussy. And prior to like, I wanna say like, maybe it was like not even like maybe five years ago. There was like girls who are like, I watch anime and I nerd out. And they're like, oh, they're hot chicks that didn't exist back in the day. Like you're playing video games watching anime.

I don't care about that because. And I'm not. Sometimes I feel like I've seen some baddies with stolen anime valor.

Okay? They. So there's two, there's two genres. There's like legitimate chicks who like go totally consume and then there's like, you'll see like an only fans girl who has like anime playing in the background or something. You're like, this is a trick. This is a trick, dude. You're trying to. Men, dude.

And some guys. And some guys. I've seen some men.

[David Borey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Che Durena]

Where I'm like, you were putting people in trash cans. I don't think you did do that.

No.

[David Borey]

I think there's a. There's a culture now where it's like, oh, that's a vibe. Like you're a certain energy of a person if you're like tapped in on like a new anime. And because of its accessibility now, it's way easier to kind of like keep track of shit without actually like for real, for real watching this shit. Do you know what I mean? Like, you drop my hero academia in a conversation and you kind of sound like an anime guy. Even if you ain't really like watching the fucking episodes. You don't even know the main character's name like that. But you're like, I know it's. I'm aware.

[Che Durena]

That's my question to you guys. Is that what Toonami did for the culture? Was it that access to Toonami expanded the world and now you have a whole thing? Or was it like, this is the block, this is the amount that I fuck with. And then that kind of went forward.

It was like your first taste. Like back in the day before we could like you could watch anything whenever you wanted. You watch what was on tv and that was what was on TV at that time. And that you got exposed to like animate right after school. You were drinking it in and you really were like, this is the. This is like, I. There's more than just Dragon Ball Z. This is a whole genre of stuff I can watch. And then it started to stretch into all these different areas. And then when you started to have like, it wasn't just anime, but Lil Wayne referencing like fucking Street Fighter. I'm slapping like E. Honda, like all this stuff. I'm street fighting like E. Honda. Then it was like, oh, this stuff is like some of my idols, some of the coolest people make thee stallion dressed cosplayed as a character from my hero academia. Then you're like, oh, these. It's cool. It's starting to become cool now to be into this stuff. This like hardcore nerdom.

One of my best friends growing up was like early black nerd in a way where I remember in elementary school, he was like. He was like, sometimes I watch Japanimation and I was like this dude gay. But like, I remember it seeming like him to have access to his hobbies seemed like such a difficult thing at the time.

Yeah, yeah.

Cause he was in all that. He had a Dragon Ball Z video game from Japan and he had to make it play on his Super Nintendo. He had to screw two holes in the back of the cartridge or some.

[David Borey]

Weird shit like that.

[Che Durena]

What?

Yeah, it was some crazy shit. And the game was all in Japanese and we were like 10.

Yeah.

And I was like, wow. In the same way that I feel about it now, I was like, wow, this guy really loves this shit.

[David Borey]

Yeah, he exposure to Dragon Ball Z existed before Toonami. My stepdad had like some weird bootleg videotapes of like Dragon Ball Z that he like. He had like. It was probably like three hours of episodes, which ain't that much, but it was like. It felt like a lot like I felt like I. And it was like the Namek story. So I didn't even know. Know the original shit well enough yet. It just. Yeah, it hit for me and. And I only had access to that for like two years. So I was just rewatching the same like 10 episodes over and over for two years. And then Toonami showed up and gave me all the shit. It was my God, you know what I mean? Like, it was everything for me.

[Che Durena]

I remember my first, like, not my first exposure to anime, but my first exposure that how like anime had like fucking infiltrated a black culture. Was I. When I moved to Toronto, so I was living. I lived in. Grew up like close to Vancouver, moved to Mexico, wanted to start doing standup. Then I moved to Toronto for standup and I had nothing. I sold like. I was working as a scuba diving instructor in Mexico, sold all my scuba diving gear so I could buy a plane ticket. And so I stayed in a uk.

I do want to say that's a crazy story. We don't have to get into it. That's a crazy shit. I feel like you really glazed over. It seems like that was very exciting time in your life. You were a scuba diving instructor in Mexico. That's like a Adam Sandler rom com plot.

[David Borey]

I broke up with my octopus girlfriend. I moved to the States and started dating human women. I changed everything.

[Che Durena]

No, I did that for like two years. So right out of high school, I took a scuba diving instructor course through university and I got my certificate to be an instructor. And then I just started applying to jobs everywhere. I found a job in Playa del Carmen. It was the cheapest flight and the best paying job. Went there, worked at this hotel for a few months, then started working like as a freelance diver all along the coast of what's it called? Plato Carmen, which is like the Yucatan area. And I would go to like over to Cozumel, go scuba diving over there. And I loved it. It was very physical job. And it wasn't like I wasn't like, I'm going to do this forever. I'm going to be like, I'm a scuba diving guy. It was more of just like a means to an end to travel. I was like 19 at the time. I lived in Mexico from like 19 to 22. It was great. It was lots of fun. And then I started doing standup in Mexico. I found a group of like four dudes who did stand up. Four tourists once a week. And then I started doing that. And then I fell in love with that. And I was like, I really want to pursue this. So I just bought a plane ticket and flew out to Toronto. After I sold all my stuff and I had no money. I had like a bag full of clothes. Just like stuff. And so when I got to. When I got to.

[David Borey]

That's so funny.

[Che Durena]

Was your stand up, all Mexico based?

[David Borey]

Can I just say, that's so funny to start in Mexico and then be like, I want to do stand up for real. I'm going to Canada. Canada? Yeah.

[Che Durena]

I couldn't go to.

[David Borey]

They don't get it yet. Someday I'm going to Canada.

[Che Durena]

I couldn't go to the States because I didn't you need a visa to work here, like in order. So I was like, that's my only option. I totally would have loved to move to New York. But part of the thing was too because I had no money, I was like, well, I know if I'm really broke in Canada, they don't just like let you die. There's enough social services there that I'll be all right.

Sounds pain.

[David Borey]

So Crazy that we do that.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. There's no security net in America.

Where.

[David Borey]

You'Re like literally on the street going, I'm dying.

[Che Durena]

They go, do you have five grand for an ambulance ride? No.

[David Borey]

Call your family. You don't have a family. Okay, well, I don't know.

[Che Durena]

Should have had a family. First mistake in America.

[David Borey]

What did we starve them to? Oh, okay, my bad.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah. Adios. Bye. But then I. Yeah, then I moved to Toronto and then I. Then I was like staying in a youth shelter. Cause I had nowhere else to go. And then I was hanging out with some of these dudes. Some of these dudes were like, they've been living on the streets. And like, I was like, these were some of the hardest people I've been around. And they were like, you watch Code Giygas? And I was like. I was like, no, I never seen Code Gigas. They were like, show me the hottest shit to watch, dude. And they're like, you gotta watch this, you gotta watch that, you gotta watch bleach. And I was like, oh, shit. Okay, okay, okay. And they got me up on my anime game. Way up. Dude dog.

[David Borey]

Yeah, Life changing. Okay, we have to take a break. When we come back, we need to discuss more of the element of this conspiracy I think we haven't quite covered, which is a strategic placement of the anime as a tool for distracting black men or black athletes in general away from success. I guess we got to unpack this whole thing. We'll be back with more. Che durena More. My mama told me. Okay, bacon lovers, and I know you're out there. Let me tell you something amazing about Oscar Meyer. Thick cut bacon. Now, I don't know if you've used the smoker before, but it's a real labor of love. You gotta put in time to get that rich smokey flavor. So now think about this. Oscar Meyer smokes their bacon for 12 hours. That's half a day. Twice as long as most bacon is smoked. So for that savory, smoky, thick cut bacon. Keep it.

[Che Durena]

Oscar, are you tired of tossing and turning all night on your old lumpy mattress? Well then it's time to upgrade your sleep game with the rest of form mattress. This state of the art memory foam technology will have you feeling like you're sleeping on a cloud for 12 hours or more. 12 hours.

[David Borey]

That's the same amount of time Oscar Meyer smokes their delicious thick cup cut bacon. Yeah. While you're sleeping, Oscar Meyer is still smoking that bacon. Forget your mattress for thick cut bacon. You'll dream about. Keep it Oscar.

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[Che Durena]

Hi, everyone.

[Jade Raina]

It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the Today show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate. That's right.

[David Borey]

Nobody does the holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the.

[Jade Raina]

Brightest stars, plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast and great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list.

[David Borey]

So join us every morning on NBC.

[Jade Raina]

To make TODAY your home for the holidays. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty, which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty Confidence is beautiful. Learn [e-mail].

[David Borey]

My mama told me presents the Start the Steel Tour. We're very excited about it. Yes, I'm not about to bite my tongue. We want to sell it out and the dates are coming up fast. And so if you live in one of these areas, we want you to buy your tickets now. It's all available on our Instagrams, on our websites, on our link tree. December 12th, we're in Seattle, and December 15th you're closing it out in Portland, Oregon. We want y'all to come out. We want y'all to kick it. We will be doing our coveted live show with special guests with just me and David depending on the city. It'll be a great time.

[Che Durena]

All that meet and greets. You think Chris Brown has a good.

[David Borey]

Meet and greet, bro? Let's be clear. I'll take a weird picture with you for free.

[Che Durena]

I would have been swallowed up. Have you ever been swallowed up? Have you gone through a time of swallowing where everything was overwhelming?

[David Borey]

Hard to know when that one ends. We're back. We're back here with more Che Durena. We're still discussing the possibility that anime, specifically Toonami, was fed to the youth, the black youth, as a tool for distracting us away from our athleticism and allowing. Allowing the white man to catch up, to sink his dirty fingernails into our basketballs and our footballs and whatnot. So your dad says this to you?

[Che Durena]

Yes.

[David Borey]

Do you believe him? Do you buy into this right away?

[Che Durena]

He would say a lot of wild stuff and it wasn't like, I. I believe that.

I believe you.

So you would just. It was. Some of it would become background noise, but it would be more like an insecurity about watching it. It wouldn't be like, I thought that I'm like letting my race down or something. It was more that I was like. I felt like I was putting in my head that it was a waste of time, that I was not accomplishing something for doing this. But his logic on it, because he would mull on these things for a bit, these philosophies that came through. You could see the through line. Because he's like, you get off school. This is the time when you go to your extracurriculars. This is when you go to whatever football, basketball, wrestling, whatever you're going to go do. That's when the hottest shit was on tv. Because they knew that's when kids get home from school. And so not only that, but it's keeping you out of, like, you're not going to the books, you're not studying, you're not doing your homework, you're not doing any of these things. So he's like, they are. He's like, this stuff, it's trying to make you slow. You know, they want to get ahead. They want to beat you. They want to beat you. That's why they have you here watching this. Huh? You're falling for it. You falling for the trick. Huh? Huh? And he's like putting it in your Head also that you're like, oh, I'm getting tricked. They're tricking me. And he's trying to trick you. There's like a whole.

[David Borey]

I'm not gonna lie, as I was researching this, it did give me a little bit of, like, the chills, where I was like, first of all, Toonami started off as a weekday thing where it was like, only on weekdays. And specifically they timed it. And I remember this from being a kid. They timed it in a way where it was like, respectful of you saying goodbye to your friends, but as soon as you get home, do you know what I mean? Like, where you. Like, as long as you ain't lingering too much, you have time to get back and plug into Toonami and make that your evening. Like, it carried for two straight hours of just that exactly when you needed it. And it felt in some ways distracting for me, as somebody that wanted to play basketball was dedicated to it. I'd be like, damn, I kind of want to go fucking watch. God, I want to watch Dragon Ball Z right now. I don't want to do this right now.

[Che Durena]

And back then, that was a big decision. That was a big, like, that was like, to miss this and miss Toonami or play basketball, that was something that actually ran in your head as a kid. It was like, I might choose Toonami over this. I might. I might want that. And then they leveraged the anime even more towards black culture. When they started putting out, like, the Boondocks and stuff with the Boondocks Rips, Dude's one of the greatest shows of all time, of course. But I was like, I think even more now, they're like, how do we draw more black people into watching this anime, into this anime style, this Toonami thing that's going on?

[David Borey]

Yeah.

[Che Durena]

My question about that in the placement of it is, do you feel like people knew that it was going to specifically hit black kids?

I don't know if they knew it was specifically going to hit black kids, but they definitely. With the way they did the intros that were like hip hop focused. And I think they knew that they were tapping into a new audience. And they're like, let's keep feeding this, let's keep feeding this. They don't necessarily always go like, we're gonna put this out and we're gonna target these people, but they see the results of who's watching and in which neighborhoods people are watching, and they go, oh, we can cater this more towards this group of people. And then we're going to have. We're Gonna suck more of them in. It's more of a response to the initial reaction.

[David Borey]

Yeah. I didn't remember the timing of its actual creation, but I looked it up and Toonami was actually created in 1997, which feels earlier. I think I remembered it, but it started in 1997. It runs all the way until 2008. And I do. And this is true of a lot of the conspiracies we end up talking about on this podcast. I am a believer that very rarely are there, like, these dastardly masterminds sitting in high towers, figuring out ways to imprison us in new, exciting, surprising turns, whatever. I think more often than not, you put some shit out and you see who's biting, and then you really start fishing for that. You know what I mean? Like, you don't really. You don't plan for it, but you'll take advantage when the time comes.

[Che Durena]

You lean into it. You lean into what the market wants, and that's. And you react to how the market reacted. And that's like. And there's a. There is the element of, like, it's attracting athletes because it's. A lot of this stuff is about being strong, powering up, getting better. And it's like you're getting that satisfaction through watching this rather than actually going out and accomplishing it in the real world.

[David Borey]

Yeah, it really. And in that same way, it really inspired my athleticism at times where, like, I would think about, like, Vegeta overcoming and feel. Feel like I wanted to replicate that. You know what I mean? Like, I could be the greatest. I just gotta train.

[Che Durena]

I remember Goku going Super Saiyan. And that is like a testament to hard work. Right? He was in that ship or whatever, just doing that difficult sit ups. And then, you know, you get bleached water to beat everybody up.

Yeah, dude, the hyperbolic time chamber. You're working out in extra gravity. Dude, one of my plyometric sneakers. Exactly, exactly. Dude.

[David Borey]

I wanted those. And I wanted to be like Goku. I guess that's the best way to say. Okay, so the other part of this that, that I think is worth noting is that Toonami, while it was sort of rooted in obviously Japanese animation, Toonami was created by two white dudes who wanted to bring, you know, Japanese anime to the American public. That was their main goal. And that, to me does feel a little odd. That, like, it's white guys making this show. That is Voice Tom the robot is. I think it's like, it's an acronym for Toonami Operating Machine. Or Something like that. Tom is voiced by a white dude. These owners are white dudes. It's all sort of like white people making their money off of eventually a bunch of weird black kids.

[Che Durena]

I mean, I will say a few white guys importing some Japanese shit does not feel odd to me. That actually feels very par for.

That's fair. They were like, we're going to take this other culture and make money off of this culture. Like all these separate cultures.

We're going to use a term for it.

[David Borey]

Yeah, we're going to take your Sailor Moon and also some swords, please. We'll need those to hang in our homes.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

That'S fair. I don't know that it's similar to what you were saying. I don't know that this any more. Proves that that wasn't just a happy axis by two white dudes who would have done this anyway?

[Che Durena]

I mean, at some point they must have, because like you said to the beginning of it, and it being hip hop themed, they did pivot, right?

Yeah, there was a clear pivot to being like, no, this is. And it could have been just more of a sign of the times of that hip hop becoming popular. And very much with the young generation, it was starting to, like, reverberate through them. It's the music they were listening to the most. It was the culture that was blowing up the biggest of the rap culture. Hip hop culture was blowing up the biggest right then.

[David Borey]

Yeah.

[Che Durena]

But they definitely knew what they were doing. They definitely knew. They were like, we gotta make this a little bit more black. Like, okay, so I talked to this music producer years ago. He repped these, like, country stars and he talked about Justin Timberlake and. Cause Justin Timberlake was in nsync. And then obviously he did stuff with Timbaland and everything. And he was convinced. He went, man, I swear to God. His team sat him down and went, justin, if we want your career to keep moving, we gotta make you black. We gotta. We gotta black. We gotta blackify you. Because they're. That's what. That's what's. That's what the people want right now. So there is. There could be an element that they were like, if we want Toonami to work, we gotta make it black. We got it as black as it can be.

[David Borey]

Yeah, I could see that doesn't feel like an insane thing to me. I imagine when they started seeing the numbers for Toonami. And it is worth noting, Toonami apparently got. They got shut down in 2008 because apparently the numbers weren't great. That like by the time. Because after I think 2004, they move it to Saturdays. It stops being a weekday thing and becomes Saturdays exclusively. And towards the. And that's when they start adding like Samurai Shampoo to your point, like the Boondocks, they add fucking, you know, gun. It becomes a different thing.

[Che Durena]

It's trying to adultify it. Here's a more mature twist on it. It's like.

[David Borey]

Yeah, no, I remember it kind of became. It conflated with Adult Swim, where Toonami could be playing Adult Swim. Shit. And then sometimes Adult Swim, you know what I mean, comes on.

[Che Durena]

When I think about it, I conflate the two for sure.

[David Borey]

Yeah. And they. It started completely separate. It was for like, they said it in sort of the breakdown that I read. It was originally for like 7 to 18 year olds, so it was older kids. And then at some point it evolves into like young adult television. And that transition, they root to the Saturday move. But I say all that to say that Toonami in its conception was this weekday sort of like family friendly thing. And that probably when they look at like the numbers, they go well, in the urban market, this seems to be working in a way that we didn't anticipate. We can't necessarily call that black people, but we know white people who live in big cities probably are exposed to enough hip hop culture that we can risk enticing it a little bit more with like, you know, white kids who listen to hip hop ass energy.

[Che Durena]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And my dad was convinced. My dad was convinced. He was like, that's what's going on, dude. They're tricking you.

[David Borey]

Yeah.

[Che Durena]

They're trying to suck your athletic ability out of you by getting you addicted to Goku. And this passion is costing me money on these Yu Gi oh cards. And I'm against this. Dude, that's.

[David Borey]

It's crazy. The amount of money I collected basketball cards as a kid and the amount of money I think about that I wasted on number one, cards that I no longer own or like are somewhere buried in a basement, whatever. And then number two, the, the amount of Beckets I used to buy, I was like constantly buying new Beckets every month so that I could the magazine so that I could figure out the price of cards, the value of the cards that I had because me and my friends were trading them all the time. And so I had to have like up to date ass. Like, no, this Michael Finley rookie card is worth $54 right now. You're gonna have to trade at value.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

Which is interesting because I never remember anyone getting any bread off of basketball cards.

[David Borey]

No one did, my man.

[Che Durena]

No, I remember a lot of kids with cards. A lot of like rookie card. I never, never heard anybody like, hey, check out these. I got these new Jordans off of basketball cards.

No, dude, they were the original NFTs. That's what they were. That was like. That's how you got this picture of a player will be worth $1 million one day. Sure it will, dude. Yeah.

[David Borey]

A player we know for sure is going to make it all the way to the end of a normal career. We have no doubt that Damon Stoudemire is going to be the future of the leader league guys.

[Che Durena]

Percy Hawkins is going to be huge.

[David Borey]

No, it's crazy. I truly found my. And I think part of the reason, and this is the scam of it all is similar to the nft, even similar to crypto in some ways. The scam is to be like, nah, but you gotta keep it.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Don't ever let it go. Because as soon as you let it go, it's gonna fucking blow up in value. And so you just end up sitting on that thing. Until Damon Stoudemire unfortunately no longer exists. And this card is worthless.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, I mean, there were basketball cards I thought that were going to be. Remember all those foil cards?

[David Borey]

Absolutely.

[Che Durena]

Do you remember that? When they would have. Yeah. And you would be like, this is going to get me to college.

Yeah.

[David Borey]

If I keep this metallic joint.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. If I keep this Gary Payton foil card, I'm going to get my first card a GEO Tracker because it's 1994. And that's what I think. Think it's cool.

[David Borey]

That's pretty awesome. In 1994.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Sucks. Sucks to hear out loud now. In the future.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, not great. A mini truck now.

[David Borey]

You were pretty cool back then.

[Che Durena]

It's the same with the sneaker heads too. We had other sneakers. They put them in like whatever, storage or something like that. And then the soles break down. It's like, dude, just wear your shoes, man.

[David Borey]

Just wear your shoes. Nah, there's. There's some people right now sitting on like some crazy Yeezy, you know what I mean? Like some nut. I can't believe you had those and they can't even do nothing with them.

[Che Durena]

No, no, they're just gonna chill. They're in some vacuum sealed container somewhere.

Somebody bought those air mags.

Yeah, the Morty McFlies.

And they're like.

[David Borey]

Yeah. Damn, boy, you ain't with nothing, man.

[Che Durena]

I was. It's terrible. I was Just outside, man.

[David Borey]

Yeah. Even when you say it, though, it sounds rude. It doesn't sound.

[Che Durena]

It's not. It's not, though, because, I mean, I have no. Nothing I did outside I can talk about now. Like, there's no. It doesn't. It doesn't graduate. Does that make sense? Like, there's adults still talking about anime. There's not adults still talking about trying to figure out how to steal soda pops from the apartment machine. You know what I'm saying?

Those are good skills, though. Those are good skills.

No, it's a skill that didn't give me and a skill that I didn't have then. Or like trying to jump over shit on your bike or. I remember I lived in one apartment complex. We used to. There was like four different cars that had hydraulics and we just look in the windows, just hanging out. Four or five of us just looking in the windows.

Dude, we just ride your bike and throw stuff. We used to ride up this one. We like. Like, it was a huge hill and we would, like, we would ride part way, walk part way, it was so big. And then just ride your bike super fast all the way down and just hope you get all green lights and you don't get hit by a car. That was one of the best. That was one of the best.

I used to be able to talk about fireworks and then white ladies started hating them, and now I have nothing to talk about for my childhood.

[David Borey]

Yeah, I wasted a lot of hours.

[Che Durena]

But here you are on this podcast making millions of dollars talking about your childhood hobby.

[David Borey]

That's right. It's a million dollar operation. It always has been, it always will be. We're no Damon Stoudemire on this side of town. We. We're going to stay consistent.

[Che Durena]

That's how you keep it going. You keep it going.

[David Borey]

Okay, Well, I guess the remaining question. We should take a break. I think we have one more break that we need to do. But when we come back, there are some pieces of this that I feel like I haven't quite gotten a clear answer on. And not that you're avoiding anything, you've been a fine, upstanding witness today. But I do still feel there are a few questions we need to ask. So we're going to take a break. We'll be back with more Che Dorena More My Mama Told Me. Okay, bacon lovers. And I know you're out there. Let me tell you something amazing about Oscar Meyer. Thick cut bacon. Now, I don't know if you've used the smoker before. But it's a real labor of love. You gotta put in time to get that rich smoky flavor. So now think about this. Oscar Meyer smokes their bacon for 12 hours. That's half a day, twice as long as most bacon is smoked. So for that savory, smoky thick cut bacon, keep it Oscar.

[Che Durena]

Are you tired of tossing and turning all night on your old lumpy mattress? Well then it's time to upgrade your sleep game with the rest of form mattress. This state of the art memory foam technology will have you feeling like you're sleeping on a cloud for 12 hours or more. 12 hours.

[David Borey]

That's the same amount of time Oscar Meyer smokes their delicious thick cut bacon. Yeah, while you're sleeping, Oscar Meyer is still smoking that bacon. Forget your mattress for thick cut bacon. You'll dream about. Keep it Oscar.

[Langston Kerman]

Hey comedy fans. The funniest comedians in the world are on tour and you can get tickets to see them live near you laugh with the biggest names in comedy like Atsuko Okatsuka, Brian Regan, Chelsea Handler, Corey Holcomb, Dane Cook, Sara Millic, Matt Matthews, Nick Swartzen, Sebastian Maniscalco and so many more. All kinds of shows, all kinds of venues, all kinds of funny. Head to livenation.comcomedy to get your tickets today. That's livenation.comcomedy, high Five Casino.

[Jade Raina]

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[Jade Raina]

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[Che Durena]

Hi everyone.

[Jade Raina]

It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Copy from the Today show. We love this time of year. There's so much to celebrate. That's right.

[David Borey]

Nobody does the holidays quite like today all season long. Join us for special performances with the brightest stars.

[Jade Raina]

Plus festive recipes to whip up the perfect holiday feast. And great deals on the hottest toys and gifts for everyone on your list.

[David Borey]

So join us every morning on NBC.

[Jade Raina]

To make today your home for the holidays. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful Beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results, and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty. Confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningfulbeauty.

[David Borey]

My mama told Me presents the Start the Steel Tour. We're very excited about it.

[Che Durena]

Yes.

[David Borey]

I'm not about to bite my tongue. We want to sell it out and the dates are coming up fast. And so if you live in one of these areas, we want you to buy your tickets now. It's all available on our Instagrams, on our websites, on our link tree. December 12th, we're in Seattle. And December 15th, you're closing it out in Portland, Oregon. We want y'all to come out. We want y'all to kick it. We will be doing our coveted live show with special guests with just me and David depending on the city. It'll be a great time.

[Che Durena]

All that meet and greets. You think Chris Brown has a good.

[David Borey]

Meet and greet, bro? Let's be clear. I'll take a weird picture with you for free.

[Che Durena]

I want you to know this. If your prayers include me, to stop drinking, drinking, stop smoking and stop having fun and stop watching these little pop their ass.

[David Borey]

If your prayers include any of those things, they're not going to work because.

[Che Durena]

I'm rejecting them all. And I will be continuing my same wicked ass ways.

[David Borey]

I guess that's the way you want to put amen.

[Che Durena]

And if you are praying that I'm gonna get into anime, I'm gonna continue in my wicked ass ways and keep shooting off ball rockets behind the Safeway.

Or I think we can get you. We'll get you on one. We'll get you on one. I mean, I think maybe it's got some titties. Maybe it's got some fighting.

Listen, I can't just be swayed with titties. It also needs some ass.

[David Borey]

All right, they do that too.

[Che Durena]

We can do both. We can do both, dude. The mark gets big out there.

I think that also. And now I'm thinking about this. I think this is relevant. That same kid showed me some anime that I was not emotion, like, mature enough for as a kid. And that turned me off a lot. Like, it was like, I like cartoons. Why are they doing these nasty adult things?

[David Borey]

Let me ask you this, and truly, you won't be swayed. I understand. But if you had to, like, land on what you think you would like in an anime, what do you think, like, subject wise, are you like, oh, I like an epic.

[Che Durena]

I like an epic plot. I like an epic plot line. I like a. I like a really defined hero's journey. And it seems like a lot of them have that right.

[David Borey]

I would say it's pretty much the only thing they do.

[Che Durena]

Just watch Attack on Titan and I do appreciate that. I do appreciate that.

[David Borey]

Attack on Titan is a great recommendation.

[Che Durena]

It's like, it's. It's just a good show. It's just a good show.

[David Borey]

It's a great show. It's surprisingly grounded given the concept. The concept is about basically these people who live inside of a wall that is surrounded by giants that destroy everything and eat people. And then it just. It only gets more terrifying and chaotic from there. But it's weirdly grounded, given.

[Che Durena]

I want to think that that sounds cool. My brain turned off halfway through you talking and it sucks. Listen, I was saying it during the break. I'm not. I don't think I'm better for not liking it. I just also, is it funny? Because a lot of times. And listen, this might be.

[David Borey]

If you want a funny one, I got other recommendations.

[Che Durena]

Okay. Because usually I don't think foreigners are that important.

[David Borey]

But Canada, y'all are nailing it. We like.

[Che Durena]

No, you guys are funny. Yeah, you guys got some of the great. We got a lot of out of there.

A lot of goats, man. A lot of goats.

Did a lot. Really, really good.

[David Borey]

Here's what I'll say. If you want funny. There. There are funny ass animes. They're like One punch man is hysterical. It's. It's the funniest shit, I think in the world of just a dude who. The whole thing, the whole premise is a dude who is so powerful that he can destroy anybody he fights with one punch. And. And it's just silly because it's making fun of the whole premise of anime in a lot of ways and sort of like very breaking the fourth wall ass anime. It's great.

[Che Durena]

I like breaking. And listen, I want to feel what you feel. I see the way your eyes light up when you talk about this. You hear me talk about my childhood. It's dead eyed.

I'm just like.

I was in a parking lot trying to learn to smoke cigarettes. That's not great. That's not great.

[David Borey]

I want you. I want to get you off the street.

[Che Durena]

Like you poking a dead squirrel and like, hey guys, come back more dead.

Animals than there should have been. I'll tell you that, brother.

That's like, yeah, like, hey, Johnny broke into the back of the school and he's like, he's got some frozen meat that we can go throw at cars.

[David Borey]

Yes.

[Che Durena]

It was like. I remember there was one year where we just. We lived by an ice cream man, and there was a lot of hours spent trying to figure out how to get into that vehicle when he was in his apartment. Apartment. Stuff like that.

[David Borey]

Wow.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. Yeah.

We never got in.

[David Borey]

Okay, that's. Well, it's not too late, man.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, you can go back. You're bigger, you're stronger, you're smarter.

[David Borey]

Now you get into that car, you got resources. You can really get in that car if you wanted to.

[Che Durena]

I can figure it out. Get all the free ice cream I want. Thanks, guys.

[David Borey]

Che, as it relates to your dad presenting this conspiracy, you. This is nonsense, but it does live in your head a little bit. You fuck. You're eating at me now. You, as an adult, do you still feel that way?

[Che Durena]

So I think the thing that lingers with me as an adult is if I'm not. If I find myself doing something in place of getting my work done, then I feel that same shame that I had when I was like. Cause sometimes my dad would be coming home and I'd be watching, and I would, like, quickly turn it off and go do something that seem productive, like homework or go run out into the backyard or something to put a veil over what I was actually doing. So now if I'm on a plane and I've downloaded a bunch of episodes of an anime or something like that, and I'm like, I could be writing. I could be connect to the wifi and answer some emails. I could be. But I kind of want to watch. I have that same guilt where I'm like, oh, no, they're winning. The white man is winning. He's making me weak with this anime dude. But still is.

[David Borey]

And maybe I'm gonna get some flack for saying this. I kind of think we need that. You know what I mean? Like, I think. I think society can't be too free. And I think that's kind of what your dad and every mildly homophobic dad feels in that is like, look, I get it. You want to be your own person, but we can't just do anything.

[Che Durena]

Yeah.

[David Borey]

Like, they're. If it's too free, it starts becoming a dealer's choice everywhere you turn. We need a little bit of that China, you know what I mean? And that's. That's where America is failing, is we just. We just need a little bit of that China dude in our shit.

[Che Durena]

That's also a dangerous path to go down.

[David Borey]

I don't know how you do it.

[Che Durena]

China White.

Yeah, a little bit of that. China's so funny, man. Gonna get a little tighter on these kids. These kids, they're not, they're, they're. They're doing whatever school. They're not doing the homework. There's no more grades. It's like, we gotta china them a bit. We gotta china them some structure.

[David Borey]

Taste. I. Yeah, I don't know. I, I worry as a parent. I find myself often thinking about how much of like. And I, I believe I want very much for my kids to discover and try and be. Make themselves available to anything and everything. But then on the flip side, I go, God damn though, like, make fuck. If you make the wrong choice, it's going to be tough for me to just sit and let it happen.

[Che Durena]

You know what I mean?

Do you feel like if you saw your kids at your age that you got into anime, do you think if you saw your kids taking a hard turn into something like that, something niche you kind of don't understand that's newer. Would you feel as though that's the wrong choice?

[David Borey]

I would not now, but that's because we live in a gig economy where everything can be a job if you are passionate about it. I think in 1997, if I'm a parent watching my kid get into adult cartoons, you know what I mean? That don't make sense and don't seem to have any real root in a future other than a guy yelling for six episodes. I gotta, I'm pressing the eject button. Even if I'm lacking foresight, I might step in not realizing what I'm doing.

[Che Durena]

And in my dad's defense, I would say like one of the few areas where you're still seeing the like, competitive nature and the push to move forward and be better is in sports. That's where like there's still like some scoring. Who you got your winners and your losers. And even when they try to make it like all nice and friendly, there is a natural competitiveness in a human being. And you can feed that in your kid to be like, okay, you know, I know they say everyone wins and loses, but there's a real. The QQ can actually win this. They go out there, go out there and sink that arm bar, get that takedown, hit that tackle and like, we're. I'm. Maybe they're not counting. I'm counting. I'm counting.

[David Borey]

Come on, man.

[Che Durena]

Your dad.

Yeah, you're dad. I'm counting. You hit enough of these you get. You get a touchdown. And maybe we've thrown the toonami for a little bit. You get a couple. Come on.

Five single leg takedowns. I'll stop withholding my love yeah.

[David Borey]

Look, them Williams sisters. They didn't watch no Sailor Moon. Do you know what I mean? Like, they didn't.

[Che Durena]

No, no, no.

[David Borey]

They didn't catch no episodes. Come on. The ball.

[Che Durena]

The Ball brothers have never seen children's entertainment.

[David Borey]

No.

[Che Durena]

All they did was listen to rap music and play basketball. You could tell.

Yes.

[David Borey]

You think.

[Che Durena]

You think Alonzo ever saw Corey in the house? Of course not.

[David Borey]

I feel like the ball brothers at the end of the day, if they were good boys and they worked hard, I feel like Lavar would, like, act out an episode from something he liked watching.

[Che Durena]

You know what I mean? Let me show you this episode of Moesha.

[David Borey]

And it's just him being like, dad, I hate this car you bought me.

[Che Durena]

And Lamello's like, I love this one.

Yeah. So good.

[David Borey]

Dad's in his bag tonight. This is a good episode.

[Che Durena]

What happened to him? I feel like he faded. He was like. He was in the music.

He's in Europe, right?

Oh, is that where he's. Yeah.

Oh, wait, are you talking about Levar the dad?

The dad? Yeah.

[David Borey]

I think he's resting like Thanos. I think he really found his peace. He fucking did it. We called him every version of a buffoon. Every single violent, vile thing we could call a man because he was so outspoken about how good his sons were. And we said he was a liar. We said he was a fool. We told him his dreams would never come true. And then they all came true.

[Che Durena]

True. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Borey]

He fucking did it. And not for nothing, the boy, the youngest of them, is gonna be the fucking best. Maybe.

[Che Durena]

And that's who he said. He said Lamelo was the one. He said it.

Yeah. And he was able to sell, like, a shoe, A cheap, shitty shoe. And, like, he was able to do.

Oh, and clothing that I got caught up on because of our fucking friends Jack and Sam. One night, I was making fun of him, and they're like, we got Bill Ballers gear on the whip. You're not a big baller.

And I was like, what?

No, no, no. I got. And Sam was like, I got my hoodie on and I ordered a hoodie because I just started getting money. Never got that shit. No emails, bounced back.

[David Borey]

Big baller brand was a hard push from Jack Knight and Sam J. For a brief period that I avoided. But I felt tempted at times because, yeah, Lavar just did it all. He literally.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, yeah, he. He was.

I wanted to. I wanted to believe in him and I. I think it worked ultimately. Right. Like we're talking about. I don't think.

[David Borey]

I don't know how you don't believe in him. I think at this point, it's impossible to deny the genius of getting three boys into. Into the NBA. Yeah, only one of them is probably. I mean, two of them great, but, like, one of them actually going to be something, something. But the fuck. How many people get a kid into the NBA? Much less three of them.

[Che Durena]

Three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was on, like. I mean, the whole thing. Put a bunch of cash in his pocket, too, like being on the wwe. All this stuff, all these appearances, all the stuff he was able to sell, like, he was. He was a raking it in.

[David Borey]

Yeah, man. I. I think he fucking beat the game. So.

[Che Durena]

Hats off. I could see him come back. He'll come back from the dead. He'll. He'll return when the time is right. When the spotlight. No, no, he's not canceled. And this was all pre, like, TikTok and stuff, too. So this is like, he didn't even have the opportunity to go viral in, like, a real format. He hasn't been, like, memed in a specific way. Like, dude, we need a good Lavar Ball meme.

Listen, guys, if he's listening. Lavar, come back.

[David Borey]

Come back, lavar. Make your big announcement on the podcast. You can make your. My mama told me niggas didn't Believe in me. And we will unpack the whole thing, bro.

[Che Durena]

For you, Lavar Ball.

[David Borey]

Bro, you can be the. You can be our third co host at this point, Levar Ball, if that's.

[Che Durena]

What it's going to take to make.

[David Borey]

You be a part of entertainment and media again. Che continues to get blurrier and blurrier.

[Che Durena]

Yeah, like, it's out of focus.

[David Borey]

It's almost cartoonish now. Yeah, you look like a. You're on Levar Ball's Internet.

[Che Durena]

I don't know why I'm so. Oh, oh, oh. I'm like, where's the focus?

[David Borey]

It's. Where's the focus, buddy? We're wrapping it up.

[Che Durena]

We're wrapping it. And I'm blurry.

[David Borey]

Dude, you. You fucked up bad. And. And listen, your plugs, they're going to. At this point, they're going to. Nobody's gonna know who you are or what you're recommending. But talk. Talk nasty to them. Let them know where they can find you and what cool shit you got going.

[Che Durena]

You can find me on all platforms at Chadarena. That's C H E D U R E N A. Check me out at the Dark Holes or Dark Holes with Cheaterina, my podcast and all. For all tour dates go to chaderana.com we got Toronto, Lexington, Atlanta and a few other dates coming up. I'll see you guys there.

[David Borey]

Fuck yeah. And he could not be closer. I assure you. This is as close as you get to a camera before it becomes dangerous, frankly.

[Che Durena]

Yeah. You see my gum line?

[David Borey]

It looked great. It's a good gum line. Bori, what you got?

[Che Durena]

You can listen to my album Birth of a Nation with the G on all platforms. Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music, whatever cool guy jokes. 87 on Instagram patreon.com davidborrie Go and check out my specials on there. We got a bunch of weird videos. Just did a watch along of the movie Twins wins if you're into that type of thing.

[David Borey]

Fuck yeah. I love that. And as always you can follow me at Langston Kerman. You can watch my special on Netflix. It's called Bad Poetry. You can stream English Teacher, it's on fx. And most importantly you can come see us Live. We have two dates left Seattle on December 12th and then we are going to be in Portland on December 15th. We would love for you to send us your voicemails at 844-LIL-DOMS if you want to send us messages and obviously if you want to send us your own drops, your own conspiracy theories. If you want to tell us what violent things you did to the anime nerds in your life, send it all to mymamapodmail.com Buy the merch. Make love not war. Bye bitch. I don't give a fuck who say what. Black Blood on Crib My Mama Told Me is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and I Heart.

[Che Durena]

Podcast created and hosted by Langston Kerman.

[David Borey]

Co hosted by David Borey.

[Che Durena]

Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Hani and Olivia Aguilar.

[David Borey]

Co produced by Bay Wayne.

[Che Durena]

Edited and engineered by Justin Cotton.

[David Borey]

Music by Nick Chambers.

[Che Durena]

Artwork by Dogon Kriega.

[David Borey]

You can now watch episodes of My Mama told me on YouTube. Follow IMMA told Me and subscribe to our channel. If you like bacon, you'll love Oscar Meyer thick cut bacon. It's smoked for 12 hours. That's a really long time. So for the delicious smoke smoky flavor, keep it. Oscar baby.

[Che Durena]

It's time for that once a year event Truck week where you save big on America's biggest trucks including the 12 ton 12 liter war machine.

[David Borey]

12 hours of Oscar Meyer smoking thick cut bacon for half the day, they're still smoking that bacon. If you're driven by your love of smoky thick cut bacon bacon, keep it Oscar. If you've got a plan to eat smoky thick cut bacon, keep it Oscar.

[Jade Raina]

Hey comedy fans, the funniest comedians in the world are on tour and you can get tickets to see them live near you. Laugh at the biggest names in comedy like Atsuko Okatsuka, Chelsea Handler, Corey Holcomb, Matt Matthews, Nurse John, Ralph Barboza, Ronnie Chang, Sarah Silverman, Sebastian Maniscalco, Wanda Sykes and so many more. All kinds of shows, all kinds of venues, all kinds of funny. Head to livenation.comcomedy to get your tickets today. That's livenation.comcomedy High Five Casino is a social casino with real prizes and big Vegas hits. @high5casino.com the hottest games right from Vegas and all winnings go straight to your bank account. Hundreds of exclusive games, free daily reward rewards and come back to get free coins every four hours. Visit High5casino.com or download the High5casino app. High5casino is a social casino.

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