Hip-Hop's Secret Meeting (with Diallo Riddle)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Hip-Hop's Secret Meeting" with Diallo Riddle

Podcast Information

• Title: My Momma Told Me
• Hosts: Langston Kerman and David Bore
• Network: Big Money Players Network and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Hip-Hop's Secret Meeting (with Diallo Riddle)
• Release Date: July 29, 2025

---

Introduction

In the episode titled "Hip-Hop's Secret Meeting," hosts Langston Kerman and David Bore delve into intriguing conspiracy theories surrounding the hip-hop industry. Joining them is Diallo Riddle, a notable figure known for his insightful perspectives on music and culture. The discussion explores the transformative period in hip-hop during the early 1990s, examining potential behind-the-scenes maneuvers that may have shaped the genre's direction.

Discussion Highlights

1. Transition in Hip-Hop: From Political to Gangsta Rap

   The conversation begins with an exploration of the significant shift in hip-hop music from politically charged messages to the rise of gangsta rap. Langston Kerman reflects on the late 80s and early 90s, highlighting how artists like Public Enemy and X Clan were at the forefront of using hip-hop as a medium for political and social commentary.

   • Notable Quote:
     Langston Kerman (04:16): "As a hip hop fan in the late 80s and the earliest 90s, you know, you couldn't miss the fact that hip hop had become, as Chuck D said, the CNN for black people."

2. The 1991 Meeting: Industry Influence or Organic Evolution?

   Diallo Riddle introduces a conspiracy theory about a clandestine meeting of 25 to 30 music industry executives in Los Angeles in 1991. Allegedly documented in an anonymous letter sent to the website Hip Hop is Red on April 24, 2012, this meeting purportedly aimed to steer hip-hop away from its militant roots toward a more commercially viable gangsta rap genre.

   • Notable Quote:
     Diallo Riddle (12:03): "We're going to start with the first one, and then we'll find our way to the second one, I think is the natural segue that I've imagined."

   Kerman connects this theory to significant releases like Dr. Dre's The Chronic and Ice-T's Cop Killer, suggesting that these albums marked pivotal points where the lyrical content shifted to themes that aligned with industry preferences for more marketable, albeit more violent, narratives.

   • Notable Quote:
     Langston Kerman (32:13): "Cop Killer... it was on the nightly news all the time. And they started putting labels on music and that... it's a very important record in terms of censorship."

3. Private Prisons and Content Control

   The hosts discuss the plausible motivations behind the supposed industry meeting, theorizing that record executives had financial interests in private prisons. By promoting gangsta rap, which often glorifies criminal lifestyles, the industry could indirectly support the demand for incarceration.

   • Notable Quote:
     Diallo Riddle (31:38): "They say that this meeting was basically exactly what has always been theorized, that these record executives were buying into public or private prison, that essentially they had gotten some sweet deal on buying private prisons and they needed to fill the private prisons..."

4. Impact of Gangsta Rap on Society

   The episode further examines the societal impact of gangsta rap, addressing claims that the genre has led to increased violence and substance abuse among youth. The hosts challenge these assertions by referencing studies and personal anecdotes, suggesting that external factors within communities play a more significant role than music alone.

   • Notable Quote:
     Langston Kerman (36:06): "But I do think that sometimes you can pour poison on an already weakened plant."

5. Second Conspiracy: Michael Jordan's Famous 'Flu Game'

   Shifting gears, the hosts introduce a lighter yet equally fascinating conspiracy theory about Michael Jordan’s legendary 'Flu Game.' Contrary to popular belief that Jordan played through genuine illness, the theory posits that he was actually hungover from a night of celebration, affecting his performance in the crucial game.

   • Notable Quote:
     Langston Kerman (47:28): "We believe that the famous flu game was not the flu but a hangover. Michael Jordan was celebrating early and got sick from all that wine and whatnot."

   This theory is further embellished with anecdotes about alleged sightings of Jordan out the night before the game and humorous speculations about the circumstances leading to his underperformance.

   • Notable Quote:
     Unknown Speaker 2 (47:43): "The idea that Michael Jordan would be somehow murdered by Charles Oakley... he would have killed him."

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, hosts reflect on the intricate relationship between the music industry and societal trends, emphasizing that while music can influence behavior, it often mirrors existing community dynamics. The theories discussed highlight the ongoing fascination with uncovering hidden narratives within popular culture.

• Final Notable Quote:
  Langston Kerman (53:24): "I think there was a big pushback on the idea. There was a big pushback on this thing that they were all scared of being the next boogeyman, which was reverse racism."

Closing Thoughts

"Hip-Hop's Secret Meeting" offers listeners a deep dive into the speculative intersections between music, industry influence, and societal changes. Through engaging dialogue and thought-provoking theories, Langston Kerman, David Bore, and Diallo Riddle invite audiences to reconsider the forces shaping one of the most influential musical genres of our time.

Notable Moments and Quotes

• Shift in Hip-Hop Content (04:16):
  "As a hip hop fan in the late 80s and the earliest 90s, you know, you couldn't miss the fact that hip hop had become, as Chuck D said, the CNN for black people."

• Introduction of Conspiracy Theory (12:03):
  "We're going to start with the first one, and then we'll find our way to the second one, I think is the natural segue that I've imagined."

• Public Enemy's Influence (25:16):
  "They start off one of their albums with like, oh, I see these guys. Are they open for the Beastie Boys? I was so offensive. I was so offended."

• Impact of Dr. Dre's Production (36:06):
  "But I do think that sometimes you can pour poison on an already weakened plant."

• Michael Jordan's 'Flu Game' Theory (47:28):
  "We believe that the famous flu game was not the flu but a hangover."

---

For those intrigued by the interplay of music, culture, and conspiracy, "Hip-Hop's Secret Meeting" offers a compelling narrative that challenges conventional wisdom and encourages deeper exploration into the forces shaping the hip-hop landscape.

Transcript

[Langston Kerman]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[David Bore]

Life'S messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Annabe, you never have to stress about messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Annabe sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life that's washable. Sofa offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Danielle Fishel]

Get your alibi ready for the week of October 10th because the hosts of stuff they don't want you to know, Buried Bones and Betrayal will be recording live on the first ever True Crime voyage sailing through the Caribbean with exclusively adult virgin voyages. And you're invited. It's five kid free nights of live podcasts, meet and greets, Halloween fun mixed with all the luxury virgin voyages is known for stylish ships, award winning dining and sleek staterooms. Book [e-mail] truecrime this is Danielle Fishel.

[Lauren Vogelbaum]

From Pod Meats World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack and he traded it for a Mott's Applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no Sugar added Applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch. Perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win win. Make sure your kid wins snack time with Mottz. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to.

[Diallo Riddle]

You by Hendricks Chin. I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, host of the podcast Brain Stuff, where we are serious about curiosity and so is Hendrick's. Their signature gin is infused with rose and cucumber and their master distiller is always crafting limited releases that riff on those flavors so that you can Create something new. Hendrix is the refreshingly curious choice for marvelous summer cocktails. To learn more about Hendricks and to find more cocktail recipes, visit hendrix gin.com US Drink responsibly. Hendrix Gin. 44% alcohol by volume 2025, imported by William Gratton Sons Incorporated, New York, NY.

[Langston Kerman]

To this day, I feel weird eating pepperoni on my pizza. Cause if you ate pork, you know, back then, you were a sucker. You know what I mean? Like, or you hid that shit. Like, if you listen to east coast hip hop.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Not our generation, brother.

[Langston Kerman]

I gotta say, by the way, the.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

80S ran a train on y'.

[Langston Kerman]

All. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Cause we were going nuts.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

If my pepperoni wasn't there, I was.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Stump crust just came out. Microchips in your anus. All koala bears are racist. The ozone layer owes me money. Marshall's invented turkey stuffing. Y' all can't tell me nothing. Everlasting omnipresence is my present state of being seen the unpleasant sight of righteous souls Live like peasants the mind stunts growth in adolescence. Welcome, little hello, mamas and gentiles alike. To another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, you've been Crazy.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The podcast where we dive deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And we finally work to prove whatever it is we're doing here today. You know what that's from?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

What?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You ever listen to that Quincy Jones album, Back on the Block? Yeah, in the early 90s.

[Langston Kerman]

It's cool.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Mode's part on that song. Holy shit.

[Langston Kerman]

That's a deep cut.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to play that when I was a little kid. It like. I don't think it really means anything, but I was a kid, I used.

[Langston Kerman]

To listen to that shit over and over.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know who I thought it was gonna be like? Pharaoh Monk.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I just feel like that there's a lot of the same rhyme with words. Bigger.

[Langston Kerman]

I thought it was from X Clan.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. No, no, no.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's a good answer to it, but.

[Langston Kerman]

Everybody was on that, especially anybody who was New York based at that time.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Right, right.

[Langston Kerman]

What year did that album come out? Is that 90? 19?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

90, maybe 91. 1991.

[Langston Kerman]

It's around there. Yeah, yeah. That was the kind of rap that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

As a kid from the West Coast, I thought everybody in New York was smart. You really just like the whole, like. Just, like, early 90s New York rap. I was like, these niggas geniuses.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Like, you know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's funny.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. And then were you into King T?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, no, like Sway and King Tech.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Yeah. Wait, who's the guy who did Fuck Compton? Who is that?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I don't know who that is.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm thinking about King T. Am I making that up? Is that not a rapper?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know what's funny? I recently spent a little time with Twista, and Twista was talking about King T. Is he from Chicago?

[Langston Kerman]

He was a West coast rapper out of Compton. Okay.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, he was a Twista named King T as one of his big influences. Early years, really.

[Langston Kerman]

I can see that. I can see that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know what I've been thinking lately? Yeah, man. The fact that all these all AI influencers are starting out black feels like some sinister way for them to control the culture.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's real nasty shit.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It feels like the worst shit coming out.

[Langston Kerman]

Have you seen these? Who are the AI influencers? I don't think I know this.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's gonna upset you.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, my gosh. Wait, we're saying these are, like, fake. It's like a Timbaland's thing. Right?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But not a musician. Like, it's just a. So it's just like, a fake black woman who, like, goes to McDonald's?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's crazy.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And she talks about, like, an argument she got in at work and like, oh, this is a funny thing that happened to me. But, like, she's not real.

[Langston Kerman]

No. I saw one where it was like, it was supposed to be a black female soldier celebrating the ceasefire of Iran and Israel. And she was like, blessed be the peacemakers. And, like, she's got all these, like, other soldiers, mainly white, like, cheering behind her. And of course it turned out it was fake. It wasn't a real soldier. They want a black coastline so bad on this ship.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It does a lot of work for them.

[Langston Kerman]

It really pushes a lot of their to do boxes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's why they're going to such lengths. It's a lot of water to make that shit, man. A lot of water.

[Langston Kerman]

Like these, man.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

One of them, diamond and Silk, died and they're like, we need.

[Langston Kerman]

We got.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We need a replacement.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

There is a hole in our roster.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We lost Diamond.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I don't give a fuck about the salary cap. We need a forward, damn it. Yeah, diving was definitely a power forward. As far as.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I don't even know if she's the dead one, but, yeah, whatever. Oh, the other one, diamond or Silk? They did.

[Langston Kerman]

One of them died.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

One of them died.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You ever think there's, like, a Diamond and Silk who are just, like, stripping out of a club in Houston? Like, damn, I hate Them.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, right.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That diamond and silk wasn't originally like, somebody had made that combo.

[Langston Kerman]

No. It can't be the first combination that's come together.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, not at all.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. Diamonds on silk. Sounds exquisite.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that sounds nice.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I will say silk. I always have some trepidation. I'm too fat for silk. Yeah, it's just. It's hot.

[Langston Kerman]

It's hot.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Silk has hurt you.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I had some silk boxers at the time and it was like, you don't even go up to 2 XL then.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. If this is what it's gonna do.

[Langston Kerman]

This is what it's gonna be like.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Are you a silk guy?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Do you enjoy it?

[Langston Kerman]

I never really thought about it before. I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know enough about them to know which one passed. But I do know that that cosign is so important, you know, like, and Candace Owens was their cosign for a long time, but then she went off. She went rogue. She went rogue a little bit. And so arguably back to her roots. Arguably. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. She's still being a dick about it, but yeah. She's pretending she's on black people's. It's scary. It's all very scary.

[Langston Kerman]

She's a little. Yeah. I mean, like, it's. It's weird times. Obviously. I don't want to get into anything too timely because we want this to be an evergreen broadcast, but, like.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, we do.

[Langston Kerman]

It's a really weird. Write that down.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's a good idea.

[Langston Kerman]

That's the good.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I want them to consume it this week and not think about it again.

[Langston Kerman]

No, that's true. That's true. No, I was just gonna say, like, you know, it's just weird. I'm still from that old school crew that thinks that, like, you know, it's. You gotta, like, look out for your folks. But I guess a person like Candace thinks that that's exactly what she's doing.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. Or at least has created an illusion where she pretends that that's what she thinks she thinks. We haven't even introduced you yet.

[Langston Kerman]

No, I just been talking.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

No. And that's how we prefer. Frankly, it works better when y' all just jump in rather than look at us be idiots for as long as we can sometimes be. But our guest today, we couldn't be excited. More excited that he said.

[Langston Kerman]

We couldn't be excited.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We couldn't be excited.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

This sucks.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

This sucks that he came. We invited him.

[Langston Kerman]

We thought he wouldn't show up, but.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We put some nasty messages in that.

[Langston Kerman]

Invite I never read it too long. Didn't read.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He's phenomenal. You know him as one of the creators of Southside. You know him as one of the creators of Sherman Showcase. My former boss, my nemesis on screen. If you're.

[Langston Kerman]

I do love that we have that legacy. We will always be Alan Gale.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. And Adam Bethune.

[Langston Kerman]

Facing off.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Hey, Bethune. Can I ask you guys. Cause you're in the room now.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Was that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Bethune is such a specific last name. Does that come from a person that someone knew?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We could talk about that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, I knew it was true.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I know his answer, but he won't admit his answer. And I only know his answer because Bashir eventually broke and gave me the answer of where this original character came from.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's too specific. It's too specific in a way that feels real. You know what I'm saying?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I know the exact source of this character.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Can't wait.

[Langston Kerman]

But, you know, like it says at the end of all credits, you know, none of these characters are based on living people. No, of course, of course.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And I believe everything I read after TV shows.

[Langston Kerman]

You have to, man. He.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And more importantly, most importantly, hosts a brilliant podcast called One Song. Give it up for our guest, Mr. D. Diallo Riddle.

[Langston Kerman]

City boy.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

City boy.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

City boy's up. Let's do it.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

For now.

[Langston Kerman]

For now, Nick and Nick, tie game now. Thanks for being here.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I really.

[Langston Kerman]

Like. I'm. Thanks for being here. No, but thanks for being here, because I read those nasty messages and I did think for a second, you know what? I'm going to show up and it's going to be a locked up building on. You know, it's a shame. It's very short.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, there's a lot of.

[Langston Kerman]

Don't know the backstory on. I imagine it's probably racist, but that's.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Maybe don't say the street name anymore. Our fans are unhinged. It's like a problem.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

They're mostly Jewel.

[Langston Kerman]

I've had a lot of memories on this street that may not go named because I used to. Well, I can't talk about it anyway.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Let's go.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

No, it's okay.

[Langston Kerman]

Let's go.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Diallo, you came to us with two conspiracies.

[Langston Kerman]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We're going to start with the first one, and then we'll find our way to the second one, I think is the natural segue that I've imagined.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, let's talk about it, because, you know, I got so much love online for my last appearance on this show.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You came on and you put your fist down.

[Langston Kerman]

I said, I don't think Michael Jackson had it. I think he had inappropriate relationships with his kid. I don't think he was having sex with him. And then a lot of people came out of the woodwork, like, oh, man, you must be a part of the Illuminati. Like, you know, people just thought I was.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Brother, you sick.

[Langston Kerman]

You had those freak offs. We didn't know about the freak offs. Yeah, but see, that was a. I wish we could have done that episode back then.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The freak offs were huge because.

[Langston Kerman]

No, seriously, how come nobody ever thinks.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

About vaginal intercourse for the Illuminati?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Whoa.

[Langston Kerman]

I think they get bored with traditional sex.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But, I mean, anal's still pretty traditional.

[Langston Kerman]

This isn't a hell of a child nowadays. This is your Iwo Jima? No. Can I just say, my college roommate was Ryan Leslie. You know what I'm saying? The producer. Yeah. And I remember he was, like, the first creative person that I ever met who had millions of dollars off of just being creative. And at the same time, I would be like, oh, man, what's it like working at the highest level? He was like, well, you gotta remember, I worked for Puff. I could see the stress come over his face just for saying, like, well, you know, I work for a guy. And that was about the time I was like, you know what? It's a bad sign when everybody you worked with, every single person you work with, you've had a major falling out with.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

You know, and the one person who you didn't have a major public falling out with died in front of the Peterson Museum, you know what I'm saying?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

On one of the busiest streets LA has to offer.

[Langston Kerman]

Absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, truly, in retrospect, an insane place for a person to get murdered.

[Langston Kerman]

There was more traffic on that street back then. I feel like the whole Mid Wilshire area was kind of popping back then. Like, when you first moved to la, you got an apartment on Mid Wilshire, and then you would go shopping at the Beverly Center. Like, our center of gravity, especially for black folks, was very different back then. Fat Burger was still popular. We didn't really fuck with it. And now. So you go to the Fat Burger that used to be right by the Beverly Center.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay.

[Langston Kerman]

This is like 99 shit, you know what I mean? Like when I first moved out here.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

So, Diallo, your first conspiracy that you came with today.

[Langston Kerman]

I got so many.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You said, my mama told me the music industry decided gangsta rap would replace the militant sound of Public Enemy and X Klan.

[Langston Kerman]

You Know, as a hip hop fan in the late 80s and the earliest 90s, you know, you couldn't miss the fact that hip hop had become, as Chuck D said, the CNN for black people. You know what I'm saying? Like, it was a time when, like, you know, and a lot of our earliest political views were formed in this concoction made of bomb squad, hip hop, production beats, and the Furious sort of. I'm gonna let you know. It was a very sort of preacher style of rap that Chuck D became famous for.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You were learning a lesson.

[Langston Kerman]

You were learning stuff, man.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Knew it. We're heading for self destruction.

[Langston Kerman]

KRS1 was huge. X Clan was huge. We were getting it. You were just quoting Cool Modi. Like, everybody, especially on the west coast in the late 80s, really was coming up with this very pro black vibe that you felt like was born in Harlem on 125th near Shrine 7. You know what I'm saying? Even people who weren't known for necessarily political rapping, like the Far side, they were like, if there's pork in your bowl, it's jigaboo time. What? It's jigaboo time. Think about it, you know, and, like, Wu Tang and Tribe and all of them were like 5 percenters, you know, it was just. It was a different time in hip hop, but it wasn't a long time in hip hop. Yeah, I would say from, like, you know, maybe 88. When it takes a nation of millions to hold us back People forget, Yo, Bum Rush, the show by Public Enemy. I think that's 86 or 87. It had some of that political stuff, but it wasn't like, the driving force. It Takes a nation of millions to hold Us Back with songs like, you know, I got a letter from the government the other day, Open it, I read it, said they were suckers, you know, like, from that album. I would say all the way until the Chronic, there was that strain.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

What's that, five years?

[Langston Kerman]

That's only like, four years. I would argue chronic came out in 92. Chronic came out. I want to say either late 91 or, like, April 92.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But I think the west coast killed hip hop.

[Langston Kerman]

I don't think it killed it, but I do think that the shiny production of Dre, as opposed to the almost cluttered. See, here's what's interesting. The cluttered production of the Bomb Squad, it was like people made a choice, and the choice was G Funk clean production. It changed overnight. And I feel like I was the perfect age to witness that change because. And I hope I'm not being low witted here, but when I did an episode of our podcast with Questlove and we were listening to the Bomb Squad production, one of the 30 year old producers on our show was like, man, there's no bass in this. And I was like, wow, you're right. Public Enemy didn't really have like, it was bass for like a beat up Sony Walkman.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Right?

[Langston Kerman]

You know what I mean? It was a lot more about the snare than it was the bass. Chronic came out. Everybody was at Alan Ed's trying to put woofers in their trunk, you know what I'm saying? Because the bass, that 808, I always said the 808 is like a black man's massage, you know what I mean? It's like those chairs that you used to see at the car wash that you, like, put a quarter in. Do you get a massage? Like you would feel like, oh, it was like. It was warm, it was comforting. As a friend of mine once said, when you hear that 800 wave, the conversation's complete.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know what I mean? And you're saying that that was a conscious choice to sort of like make this shift, or at least a subconscious one that they then accepted at large.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, look, I think it can go one of two ways. My brother, who's older than me, loved Public Enemy. I'm going to be talking a lot about my brother Tony in this episode because he's the person who sort of maybe more than my mama, introduced me to both of these ideas. And he never got into gangster rap. He never really even got into Mobb Deep and the east coast version of whatever gangster rap was like the bad boy sound. He never got into that. He loved Public Enemy for his political message. We would often get into debates because he was like, I think they decided, look, we can't have black people feeling like this militant is definitely. You gotta remember, culturally, Spike Lee's do the Right Thing comes out. Fight the Power is like a number one jam in the streets, you know what I'm saying? And then literally, in about 18 months, it didn't even feel like two years, 18 months later, it's the chronic, it's Dr. Dre, it's like Snoop. I used to take the point of view that people like this music more and more. You know, music in our message, which was another Public Enemy album, or Can't Trust It. Like, I felt like they lost the youth, they lost the sound, they lost the ears. And this other stuff was just more aesthetically pleasing. It didn't have the political message, you know, at least not stated the same way.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Where do you put NWA in this timeline, then?

[Langston Kerman]

Well, okay, so here's what's interesting. Nwa. Nwa, I would say, sort of started to blow up in, like, 1988, okay? So there are two trains running at the same time on the East Coast. You've got everybody from Cool Modi to Public Enemy. Like, you've got KRS1. A big factor in all this. X Clan. They're all poor, righteous teachers. They're all on one thing, right? On the west coast, the dominant force is N.W.A. right? And I'll never forget the first time I heard NWA it was the one white guy at my high school who was really into NWA and we had to ride to the science fair together. He's like, yo, listen to this. And I remember, you know, Eazy like, you know, or Ice Cube. We all said, fuck you, bitch, and kept going. You know? Like, I was like, what the hell is. What are we listening to? But he was really into it. And I found out once I got to college, I was like, yo, NWA had tons of white fans. Like, it definitely had, like, its street thing. But, like, most of the black kids, I went to a school that was pretty much 100% black. We had three non black students. We had Joel, we had Tran start. We had Tran Lee.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Okay?

[Langston Kerman]

And we had Jorge Ramos. And I remember.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know what's crazy? I assumed the three were gonna be white. That's all right.

[Langston Kerman]

No, we had a United nations of non black students. Three out of, like, 600 kids at our school. And it just so happened that Joel was one of the biggest NWA fan.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think we know why. I think that's a survival technique. Wasn't he going to be mad at.

[Langston Kerman]

Y' all the whole time?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

He was surrounded.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

This nigga's scared and alone. He's got to find a way to bond.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

C ran makes him feel powerful. He needs to feel strong.

[Langston Kerman]

He has something to rebel against. And he found his voice of rebellion. Now, what was interesting is y' all are right.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

White is the devil. Where was your school?

[Langston Kerman]

Atlanta, Georgia.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay, so do you not feel like. Do you feel like it was similar things on the west coast where the music was coming out of?

[Langston Kerman]

Do you. I'm sorry, say that again, like, because.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You'Re talking about, like, it just feels like regional more than it feels like a direct effort to, like, you know what I mean? They were gang banging out here. That's, like, what they were on, right?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, there was something in the sauce. In la. I mean, like, there were rappers like King T, who I feel like were trying to get on that X Clan boat, you know what I mean? Like, if you go back and listen to some of his people forget that. When Ice Cube eventually leaves nwa, what's the first thing he does? He gets the. To become his bodyguards and he releases. I believe it was America's Most Wanted. He got on the militant train, you know what I mean? That was his way of sort of stepping away from what Eazy and the rest of them were doing. If they were doing sort of like an apolitical. This is street life. Ice Cube was doing. Fuck you, Ice Cube. He was like. He was taking on the man, you know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, he really shifted like, Fuck the Police into political sort of jargon, not just, like, survival technique.

[Langston Kerman]

And by the way, the guys, my core group of friends who were all into Public Enemy at the time. Ice Cube was our west coast rapper when he made that transition. Cause he's like, oh, see, now the west coast is about to get like. You know what they're doing out here? By the way, we're in Atlanta. Atlanta doesn't really have a scene, a hip hop scene. Everybody at our school basically had to make a choice. You either listen to west coast or west coast adjacent stuff. Like, there was Pooh man out of Texas, I think, you know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I was wondering, were you guys into Texas stuff again? Coming out of Port Arthur?

[Langston Kerman]

There were two constituencies. There was the people who listened to Scarface and West coast. Or you were like, my clique, which was like poor righteous teachers, Tribe called Quest de La Soul.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

There was no, like, regional scene yet in a real world, you know, we.

[Langston Kerman]

Had Y' all so Stupid, which was a group that is long, you know, hey, listen. Go back and listen to Y' all so Stupid. Not bad. There was a group called Parental Advisory.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's such a funny way of promoting. Go back and listen. They tried their best.

[Langston Kerman]

I actually don't think. Listen, I don't. I'm trying to remember who they tried to sound like. But Parental Advisory was another group that eventually became Rico Wade and eventually became Dungeon Family and Organized Noise. Yeah, so, like, the C's were there, but nobody was popping. If you went to an Atlanta party in 1991, which I did in. Was I in middle school? I think I was in middle school. It was all bass music. It was all booty shake. It was three hours of Luther Campbell and Gucci Crew and Splack Pack and all that kind of music, it was just. It was just. We were just booty shaking and yeeking it up.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I like that when you talk about this supposed transition. Right, right. Is this a music industry that you're picturing sort of like making a collective call?

[Langston Kerman]

So the collective call, according to my brother, and I think there might be something to this, is that it's easy to forget how controversial Public Enemy was at the time. Like, they even start off one of their albums with like, oh, I see these guys. Are they open for the Beastie Boys? I was so offensive. I was so offended. Like, you know, they've got like the typical white guy calling, you know, call in, guy caller.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Who is he calling? We don't know.

[Langston Kerman]

I bet you Quest Time could be like, oh, that was the, you know, the Robert Downey Jr. Show or whatever that is. Like, you know, Robert Downey Jr. There was a guy, Morton Downey Jr. You know, like, he would probably tell you the source, but, like, there were a lot of people who were like, what Public Enemy's doing is not cool. And listen, there's some lyrics there that are questionable. But what ended up happening was, at least according to some, was this idea that, hey, why don't we take this in a different direction? Because there was more gatekeeping back then.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

In the music industry in general, back.

[Langston Kerman]

Then, for quality control reasons and for messaging. It's just hard for me to believe that they actually just sat down and did it when I know that right in the. The band bus, you know, the games. I know what kids were getting excited about. And we were getting excited, you know, there was like a transition around 91, 92, where I don't think P would have fit into it because they were still doing their political message music. Meanwhile, me and my friends are hitting puberty and we wanted to hear Jodeci. We wanted to hear Mary J. Blige's first album, you know what I mean? So there wasn't a conscious decision on, I don't think on any of our behalfs to start listening to a more party salacious, let's hook up with girls type music.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think that's.

[Langston Kerman]

You can't hook up to a girl to a Public Enemy track.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

No, they do.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

By the time I get to Arizona.

[Langston Kerman]

Or Diamond or Silver.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah, girl. We're just trying to chill.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You gotta turn that down, man. I'm trying to get some pussy over here.

[Langston Kerman]

We're literally telling publicly. Let's chill.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Chuck D is bumming me out. I really can't.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I can't vote yet.

[Langston Kerman]

What I can do I'm under 18.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

What I can do is finger.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, I can get some ass.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We're gonna take a break. We need to take a break. And when we come back we're gonna do some research. I did some research on this conspiracy that I want to throw away. More Diallo Riddle More My Mama.

[David Bore]

There'S nothing like sinking into luxury. @washablesofas.com you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 3030 day money back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Danielle Fishel]

Calling all True Crime Junkies this October, the hosts of Stuff they don't want you to Know. Buried Bones and Betrayal are hitting the high seas on the first ever true crime voyage from award winning kid Free Virgin Voyages book [e-mail] truecrime hey, it's us.

[H]

The guys from Stuff they don't want you to know. Here at our show, we celebrate curiosity and that's why we're always talking about Hendrix Gin.

[I]

Opening a bottle of Hendrix Gin is more than the beginning of a cocktail. It's about being open to the extraordinary, the unusual.

[Langston Kerman]

Hendrix Gin is the refreshingly curious choice for marvelous summer cocktails.

[H]

Yeah, this summer you can try the delectable Hendrix Cucumber Lemonade. It's a simple cocktail, but check it out. It's perfect for any occasion because Hendrix tastes like no other gin. You know why? Because it's made like no other gin.

[I]

And check out Hendricks Gin limited release variants because they take you on a flavor journey and each bottle tells a unique story and every sip invites the unexpected. To learn more about Hendrix and to find more cocktail recipes, visit hendrixgin.com US Drink responsibly Hendrix Gin 44% alcohol by volume 2025. Imported by William Grant & Sons Incorporated, New York, NY.

[J]

There's the part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house. But I also know what isn't funny. Ocd. I've lived with OCD my entire life and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented unwant thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for ocd, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about nocd. NOCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by Insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to NOCD to book a free 15 minute call. They are here to help.

[Langston Kerman]

Smell good, I feel good and you.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Sing good and make love good.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, I know. Oh, oh.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We're back, we're back.

[Langston Kerman]

I know that clip. Yeah, I love that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's one of the greatest interviews I think ever recorded, man. Diallo. We're still talking about this conspiracy that there was somehow a conscious effort to change the music industry. And while there aren't a lot of official records on what this was, one of the conspiracy theories, or rather the root of the conspiracy theory, comes from a supposed meeting of a literal meeting that they had between a bunch of record executives out here in la. In fact, this originally comes from a supposed letter that got sent to a site called Hip Hop is red on April 24, 2012. Now, in the letter, there's this anonymous source that claims to have been present at a 1991 meeting where a number of music decision makers were all there. It was comprised of 25 to 30 people equally powerful in the music industry. And they as well as about five attendees who no one knew. Apparently there were also like shadowy figures, couldn't even place, but were allowed to.

[Langston Kerman]

It was probably just at Pache. It's just a dark restaurant. Shadowy figures. It's just dark in there.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

They say that this meeting was basically exactly what has always been theorized, that these record executives were buying into public or private prison, that essentially they had gotten some sweet deal on buying private prisons and they needed to fill the private prisons and the movement of X Clan, of Public Enemy. All these groups was not helping to serve the filling of these private prisons. Thus, they need gangsta rap to become the sort of, like, replacing source.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, let me tell you why this does track. There's an artist and an album that I haven't mentioned at all. Ice T came out with Cop Killer.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Which is.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Which was a rock song, rap, rock, rap hybrid that I feel like very few rap people even listen to. I hate it. It's not the greatest. It's not great music. But it caused such a stir when it came out, right? Like, you know, fuck, the police had caused some ruckus. Cop Killer, just like it was on the nightly news all the time. And they started putting labels on music and that. I think that. That I'm pretty sure that, like, Warner Brothers had to, like, release its contract on that album and stuff. It's a very. In terms of censorship, a very important record. And I do believe that it probably came out in 90 or 91. I totally believe that. In the light of Cop Killer, in addition to all this X Clan stuff, there's a lot of, you know, cross pollination with Public Enemy and the Minister, Louis Farrakhan at the time, I do believe that they would probably say, you know what? Fuck this. We have to start monitoring what we are releasing to the public. At the same time, it's ironic that the Chronic. I think two things can be true. I think that meeting could have absolutely taken place. But I also think that Dre is just an incredibly talented person. I think that he had been working and listening with the rap group above the Law, which, if you guys don't know it, go find the song Black Superman. It's a great song. They were experimenting with using that high synth that everybody associates with G Funk. He's using the same studio over here on Cahuenga that they're using. So they're listening to each other. And the Chronic came out, I want to say, right before above the Law dropped their album. So he kind of came out first. And so. Because I'll tell you, when the Chronic came out, you knew it was a game changer.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

You knew that album was. It's like get rich or die trying. There's certain albums, when they come out, you're like, oh, it's gonna be hard for hip hop to go back to whatever it was.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But after this album, everybody's gotta dress like this now.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, yes. I need my shiny suit. Yes, exactly.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

When he came out, I said, I.

[Langston Kerman]

Gotta get a bulletproof vest. Exactly. No, exactly. I just think that it's like when graduation beat, whatever 50 album was coming out at that time, you know, after the Chronic, just everything else sounded so old. And to a teenager, a young teenager, things that are two years old ago or like, really old. Yeah, that's. I do think that's a sixth of my life ago.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I do think that to your point, there. There is sort of like this nasty presumption that the music wasn't evolving and getting better. That it was just like lateral shift to gangster shit instead of it being like, nah, they were for real pushing the art form. They just also happened to be talking about a different type of violence or a different perspective on things. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

And by the way, you know, some of it is just star power. Like, when Snoop came into the studio, he was in the studio while they were recording the Chronic every single day.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Right.

[Langston Kerman]

They said you couldn't kick Snoop back. Cause he was like, this is my one chance to do anything in life. So he was like, 19, right?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

He was like a kid.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. There are other rappers who were supposed to be just as big as Snoop on the Chronic, but, like, he didn't leave the studio. You know what I'm saying? So, like, you know, Warren G would even be like, hey, you know, we thought, hey, this is cool, but let's go out and do something nice. Stu was like, I'm here. He was like, I'm just gonna record my vocals over and over. I'm gonna make sure they sound perfect. And so by the time the Chronic comes out, not only is Dre, like, sort of peaking in terms of his production prowess, he's got this six foot something tall, skinny dude who, you know, is an absolute, you know, charisma magnet.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

At that time, who rides a beat like we've never heard before.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Kind of looks like a Doberman.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And has plenty of money. I'm gonna make a billion dollars.

[Langston Kerman]

And content wise, he's been more influenced by what was going on with NWA than with Public Enemy. All these. There are songs like, the Day the Niggas Took Over. There are attempts to talk about the riots in LA at that time. But it's not a political album in the same way. This is a Street Life album. And after that, the east coast even changes to adapt. So all of a sudden, it's not the De La souls and the tribes who are doing their own type of militant sort of pro black messaging. It becomes like, what is the east coast version of this? It's MOBB Deep. You know what I'm saying? It's. We're gonna talk about the street life that's going on in our hoods.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, I, as sort of a dorky ass attempt at unpacking this, did a Google search of does rap music lead to violence? Which I know is a very cop thing to write into.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay, you said it. That's all. That's all, you said it.

[Langston Kerman]

What did AI respond with?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I'm so curious. Well, that's the thing. So this in 2006, great question about a study. About a study from 2006 from the Prevention Research center of the Pacific Institute for Research. That's a lot of research and evaluation in Berkeley, California, which suggests young people who listen to rap and hip hop are more likely to abuse alcohol and commit violent acts. Now, one of the key points that they harp on in this study show that increased alcohol consumption related to alcohol's promotion in the songs. Right. That like, the more you hear about it promoted, the more you're likely to consume it. When passive Courvoisier comes out. Courvoisier sees bigger numbers right now, here's where it gets a little short sighted for me is that ultimately at its best, I think they're saying that alcohol sales overall have gone up simply by doing that. But it's not necessarily addressing the black of it.

[Langston Kerman]

All right?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

This is popular, therefore people are doing it. But that's not talking about black people. That's not necessarily talking about kids specifically. And then in 2002, there was a study that found that black kids statistically actually drink less alcohol despite being exposed to 66% more ads for beer and ale sales and 81% more ads for spirits that, like, we are constantly being Barbara with this shit and are not drinking at the same level.

[Langston Kerman]

Can I just say, when I first got to college, every white kid there had a fake id. Every single one. And most of the black kids did not drink at all.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

No, man.

[Langston Kerman]

So I 100% believe that. And look, let's get real. All of the street crimes that, you know, Snoop was trying to be sound like a pimp from the 70s. Well, there was no gangster rap in the 70s. I reject this idea that all of a sudden because of gangster rap that things got more violent. I think that there were things that were already there. They would have been there if we had been listening to the Ohio Players, I think. I don't know.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, 100%. I think that the ball was already in motion. I don't.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think to your earliest point, this is. This is a reflection of the community at large, regardless of what they decide ends up on the radio, you know what I mean? Our neighborhoods legit are looking and experiencing these things. It's not like, oh, suddenly we just started making up.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. Because we saw Dr. Drake or because.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The music execs were like, hey, you gotta be violent now.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

No, we'll stab each other and kill.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Each other are fucking crazy.

[Langston Kerman]

But I do think. Listen, as much as I don't believe hip hop is to blame, I do think that sometimes you can pour poison on an already weakened plant. Right. You know what I mean? And to a certain extent, I would be lying if I said some of those guys in my middle school and high school who were listening to Pooh man did start selling drugs, you know what I'm saying? They weren't listening to the hip hop group, so we were listening to. So it is.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I don't know.

[Langston Kerman]

I don't know if it's causal, but I do know that sometimes you can find justification to try some stuff because you're impressionable.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think certainly there's a lot of shit that I did because I heard a rapper talk about it at some.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Point to a certain age. Most of the things I thought were cool, I was. That's where it was coming from.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I was getting it from the source of hip hop artists or, you know, in various ways. But I also think.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And it depends on the hip hop artists, so. Right. Common had you trying to wear knit hats.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And I also think. I think some of them I was listening to. And I fully was like, I wasn't engaging with Eminem behavior.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No, not at all.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know what I mean? Like, I. I had no intent on putting a woman in a trunk. That wasn't, like, energy moving through life.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I also never thought Eminem was cool.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know, listening to the music, it was not.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Like, I thought the music was good.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I didn't think it was cartoons.

[Langston Kerman]

I never listened to an entire Eminem album. I could never listen to an Eminem album. I was never like, you know what? I'm gonna pop in the real Slim Shady cd. That was never. I always gave him props. I was like, clearly, this man is super talented. He's an amazing rapper, but a little bit like rage against the machine. At the time, he was somebody I respected over there. I wasn't gonna pop in the CD and listen to it from start to finish.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I also never liked rap. I never cared. I don't care about the physical skill of it. Like how people are. Like, he raps in triplicates and shit. That never. That's not like that.

[Langston Kerman]

I would respect that because like black thought of the roost was like that. Like he would do. He would pull off some shit right early. Jay Z would pull off like a. Not a pun, but like an allegory entendre.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Entendre.

[Langston Kerman]

They won't get the picture till the wet pins drawn. You know, like, I used to love shit like that. So every now and then I was.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Sitting in the back of my dad's Honda Civic listening to Marshall Mathis LP and feeling big feelings. I ain't gonna pretend like I was. That said, I think ultimately it does presume sort of. It not only is reductive to the quality of the art form that got introduced, it also is shortsighted in how much these, these things that we're adopting as kids were picking up for sure are permanent or just a thing I tried once and then never did again.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like how much of it is just a phase you went through at 15.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I just figuring myself out. And I would have done that no matter what the music was telling me to do. I just, I just happened to see a dude tell me faster. You know what I mean?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that's funny.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We're gonna take one more break and then we're gonna, we're gonna unpack one more thing and then get up out of here. All right. More diallo riddle. More My Mama told Me.

[David Bore]

Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about Messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Annabe Sofas, the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out. Starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics. That means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washable sofa sofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Danielle Fishel]

Get your alibi ready for the week of October 10th because the hosts of stuff they don't want you to know. Buried Bones and Betrayal will be recording live on the first ever true crime voyage, sailing through the Caribbean with exclusively adult virgin voyages and you're invited. It's five kid free nights of live podcasts, meet and greets, Halloween fun mixed with all the luxury. Virgin Voyages is known for stylish ships, award winning dining, and sleek staterooms. Book [e-mail] truecrime hey, it's us.

[H]

The guys from Stuff they don't want you to know. Here at our show, we celebrate curiosity. And that's why we're always talking about Hendrik's Gin.

[I]

Opening a bottle of Hendrik's Gin is more than the beginning of a cocktail. It's about being open to the extraordinary, the unusual.

[Langston Kerman]

Hendrix Gin is the refreshingly curious choice.

[J]

For marvelous summer cocktails.

[H]

Yeah, this summer you can try the delectable Hendricks Cucumber Lemonade. It's a simple cocktail, but check it out. It's perfect for any occasion because Hendrix tastes like no other gin. You know why? Because it's made like no other gin.

[I]

And check out Hendrick's Gin limited release variants because they take you on a flavor journey and each bottle tells a unique story and every sip invites the unexpected. To learn more about Hendrix and to find more cocktail recipes, visit hendrix gin.com US Drink responsibly. Hendrix Gin 44 alcohol by volume 2025. Imported by William Grant & Sons Incorporated, New York, NY.

[J]

I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless, unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and forgot? What if I'm a bad person? Why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's nocd.com.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Oh, yes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Wait a minute, Mr. B. Can you lend a nigga a pencil or a pen? We're back.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

We're back. Write it down.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, come on.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You go write it down.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

We better write it down.

[Langston Kerman]

We got good Stuff.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Diallo, before we went to break or while we were on break, you mentioned that you have one other conspiracy.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, man. It concerns a young man who's on your walls here, Michael Jordan. And this is not Shade. This is actually, in some ways, extra respect for those of us who occasionally will have something to drink. It is the idea that. You know the famous flu game.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, of course.

[Langston Kerman]

Famous flu game, yeah. Our theory is that that man did not have the flu. He was hungover.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I've heard that many times.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay. All right.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah. Cause there are people who claim they saw him out the night before. Right.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's been a big claim, is that he was drinking, that the series was sort of in his hands.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, he was feeling good, but he was celebrating early.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He was celebrating a little early and got sick from all that wine and all them carbs and cigar smoke and whatnot.

[Langston Kerman]

And sneaking out of the hotel room when Oakley was at the front door.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah. I think when you Michael Jordan, you ain't even really gotta sneak that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Oh, he walks out the front. What's he gonna. Is Michael.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, you haven't heard that story.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Which one?

[Langston Kerman]

The one that he was sleeping with Oakley's old lady. And. And he hears Oakley. So, like, he goes out over the balcony and scales down.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Holy shit.

[Langston Kerman]

To the idea.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I never heard that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The idea of Michael.

[Langston Kerman]

I heard that from a very famous rapper who I feel like would not lie about something like that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The idea that Michael Jordan would be somehow murdered by Charles Oakley. And that whole shit gets.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's the only person on the team who could have done it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He would have killed him.

[Langston Kerman]

That's the only one he's afraid of.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah, it's the only person.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He would have killed him.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

He would have killed him.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He would have killed that man dead.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's the only person who could have taken him out.

[Langston Kerman]

Four rings, not six.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He's like, that's fine. I got what I needed.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I will say to the flu game of it all. I hear that, right? I hear the idea that he was out drinking. Michael Jordan was a dog in the way that I don't think a hangover beats him like that. I mean, the amount that he would have to consume to have him not able to play at all. And it was still the night before a game. He still knew what was going on.

[Langston Kerman]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know what I'm saying? It's just. It feels like too much to me for like.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, the argument that he makes, or at least Michael Jordan that has been made about. On Michael Jordan's behalf is the pizza right? Is that they order a pizza at like some odd hour. Michael Jordan asked to order a pizza. And the pizza in theory is. I've heard that as well causes food poisoning.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, food poisoning.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, which is how he gets sick. Now pizza late at night, even non.

[Langston Kerman]

Poisoned pizza feels like a drunk ass moose.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, let me just order some pizza at midnight. You got the midnight ass staff that don't finish cooking the way they're supposed to. They're putting pepperonis on after. Fuck, we forgot.

[Langston Kerman]

The dough hasn't fermented at all. It's just a little wet.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And Michael don't notice because his mouth is numb. He's drunk.

[Langston Kerman]

All he tastes is tequila and Charles Oakley's wife.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I just like the idea of somebody walking out of the hotel and you see half half naked Michael Jordan scaling down.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Is that. No, I'm drunk. I'm drunk.

[Langston Kerman]

Is that his airness?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You know they called him cool names back then.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Is that the Black Cat? Was that. I know that was the shoe. Were a lot of people saying that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Calling him the Black Cat? Yeah, that was the nickname he tried to like get going that day.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That's what that's always felt like. Cause you know he's bad at naming stuff.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I'm the black Cat.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

There are little moments in Michael Jordan's career where you get to see that that's just a crazy person. This isn't like this elevated brain. You know what I mean?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

This is a tall guy from North Carolina.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

He just happened to be so good at basketball and everything else is a psychopath.

[Langston Kerman]

Bashir. And I imagine that once we found out there was a. You know, once I found out there was a Michael Jordan steakhouse.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

And I was like, man, he looks like a guy who enjoys a good steak. Me and Bashir don't know this. This is based on no fact. But we imagine at some point a guy is talking to Michael and he's cutting into his fancy steak and he's like, michael, kids, black kids are killing themselves over your sneakers. You gotta lower the price. He's like, they're killing each other over my sneakers. They're that good.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The most famous.

[Langston Kerman]

And then he just kept the price where it was.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You know what's crazy about the steakhouse.

[Langston Kerman]

Too is what was, what was the playlist?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Did he curate the playlist for the steakhouse? Cause that sucks. That would be the worst steakhouse ever. I don't think is Kenny Lockets.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I don't think it is Kenny Lattimore.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Kenny Lattimore. God wanted to be Kenny Lockets.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's how he was dancing to Kenny.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Hey, here it is. Kenny Lattimore. Kenny Lat.

[Langston Kerman]

What documentary changed the world? It's all of our points of view.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Because I studied it. We were inside.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It was the best documentary ever made.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I went drink for drink with him.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Diallo, this. I think we solved it. I think we did everything we were supposed to do together.

[Langston Kerman]

I think we know that there was a vast conspiracy to put NWA politics at the top. And I think it's safe to say that Michael Jordan party too hard.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think certainly there was an industry working to promote a thing that already existed. And maybe some of those things should have been dealt with in an active way and not just reflecting at the. Not us being angry at the music, but more angry at the systems at large. I think is a fair way of maybe thinking about it.

[Langston Kerman]

I think there was a big pushback on the idea. There was a big pushback on this thing that they were all scared of being the next boogeyman, which was reverse racism. You see it in the reaction to Public Enemy and X Clan. You see it when Bill Clinton shuts down Sister Soldier on that thing, and then all of a sudden he rockets to the top of the Democratic Party. There's the cop killer controversy. I think everybody was scared of reverse racism. Hence it does seem to make some sense. But I do also know that we as kids really like that 808 bass.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It felt good.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You wanted to have sex. It's cool, man.

[Langston Kerman]

And when Shy did that song without any instrumentation, we all wanted to be in a doo wop band.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So there you go.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

If you ever fall in love again. Oh, no.

[Langston Kerman]

If it may not happen.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I don't want to hear Public Enemy with my clothes off.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's true.

[Langston Kerman]

No makeout songs.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Come on, man.

[Langston Kerman]

Come on.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's tough to flave. It's tough to. You gotta meet kids.

[Langston Kerman]

Professor Griff.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You gotta meet kids where they're at, you gotta wear. You gotta meet kids where they're at.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Public Enemy is for layers.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yeah. It's for Multiple Carhartts.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It's for Timberlands and tall socks.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

100%.

[Langston Kerman]

Even though Rosie did look great dancing to Public Enemy, that's her business in the beginning. That's not how I dress.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's her business.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And I seen her dance to a lot of stuff with that same. It was the one move she had. Cause you watched the Supercut. It was all the same move.

[Langston Kerman]

That was my first on screen. Kiss. As an actor, Rosie Perez Rosie had a kiss on the you might as well quit at an NBC show.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I know.

[Langston Kerman]

Get the fuck out of here in 2018 because I didn't. Yeah, I didn't have any kisses on Marlin 2018.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I would have put that in your intro.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, me and Rosie shared a smooch on NBC show Rise, man.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Man. Diallo, tell the people where they can find you. And it better be Rosie Perez Lips.

[Langston Kerman]

You can find me at rosiefan. You can find me on Instagram. Diallo. It's just six letters. D, I, A, L, L, O. Yeah, if you find me there, you'll be in touch with me. As long as we can find out everything about one song and anything else that we're going. And by the way, can I just say, for the record, we'd love to work with you guys on some of our future TV shows.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Hell yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That's very sweet. What you got?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You can find me watching Rosie Perez Supercuts. Sometimes I get a little doubt. Need a pick me up? You know what I'm saying? Cool guy jokes87 on Instagram.

[Langston Kerman]

That's it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Yeah, you can follow me. Yanks and Carmen and hell yeah. Like subscribe, rate, review, do all the things you do to a podcast to make it succeed. Call. Maybe call us at 844-LIL-MOMS. We would love to hear from you. We think send us [e-mail] Most importantly, bye, bitch.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Look at your neighbor and say, he's a meat stretcher. He'll stretch your meat. Hallelujah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

My Mama Told Me is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And I Heart Podcast, created and hosted by Langston Kerman.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Co hosted by David Bore, executive produced.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

By Will Ferrell Hansani and Olivia Aguilar.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Co produced by Bay Wayne.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Edited and engineered. Pioneered by Justin Cotton.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Music by Nick Chambers.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Artwork by Dogon Krieger.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You can now watch episodes of My Mama told me on YouTube. Follow at my Mama Told Me and subscribe to our channel.

[Lauren Vogelbaum]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack and he traded it for a Mott's applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no Sugar added applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch. Perfect for tossing in a lunchbox keeping in the car or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win, win. Make sure your kid wins. Snack time with Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] this is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. Okay, moms, it's that time again. Back to school. And if you're anything like me, you want your kids to look great without spending a fortune. And that's why I've been hitting up JCPenney. They've got the trends your kids actually want to wear, from graphic tees and cool denim to shoes and backpacks, all at prices you'll feel really good about. And yes, I may have grabbed something for myself too, like the sleeveless Chevron crochet MIDI dress. It is so cute, so flattering, and perfect for everything from weekend errands to brunch with friends. When I told my friends it was from JCPenney, they were floored. It just goes to show how much style and value you can find when you know where to look. JCPenney seriously makes it so easy to check off everything on your list and maybe treat yourself while you're at it. Whether you're shopping in store or online, it's one stop shopping for the whole family. So if you've been sleeping on JCPenney, now is the time to wake up. Shop back to school and [e-mail] yes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

JCPenney, not all meals are created equal. For instance, breakfast has the spicy egg.

[Langston Kerman]

McMuffin for a limited time and and lunch doesn't.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

McDonald's breakfast.

[Diallo Riddle]

This episode is brought to you by Hendrix Gin. I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, host of the podcast Brain Stuff, where we are serious about curiosity and so is Hendrix. Their signature gin is infused with rose and cucumber, and their master distiller is always crafting limited releases that riff on those flavors so that you can create something new. Hendricks is the refreshingly curious choice for marvelous summer cocktails. To learn more about Hendrix and to find more cocktail recipes, visit hendrix gin.com US Drink responsibly Hendrix Gin 44% alcohol by volume 2025 imported by William Gratton Sons Incorporated, New York, NY this is.

[Langston Kerman]

An I Heart podcast.