The Right Ear is the Gay Ear (with Vinny Thomas) RE-RELEASE

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Momma Told Me – "The Right Ear is the Gay Ear" (with Vinny Thomas) RE-RELEASE

Introduction In this re-released episode of My Momma Told Me, hosts Langston Kerman and David Bore, alongside guest Vinny Thomas, delve into a fascinating and somewhat humorous Black conspiracy theory: the idea that the side of your ear piercing indicates your sexual orientation. Released on June 5, 2025, the episode explores the origins, personal implications, and cultural impact of this theory, weaving in personal anecdotes and sharp humor throughout the discussion.

Exploring the Ear Piercing Conspiracy Theory The episode kicks off with Langston introducing the central conspiracy theory: "my mama told me if your right ear is pierced, that means you're gay" (07:25). This notion, while seemingly trivial, serves as a gateway to deeper conversations about societal perceptions and the stigmas associated with them.

Personal Experiences with Ear Piercing Langston and David share their personal experiences with ear piercings, revealing how the fear of being labeled influenced their choices. Langston admits, "I didn't believe it for a second, but I was like, all these niggas do. So who am I to jet against their own research?" (09:24). David adds humorously, "I did get one ear pierced. It wasn't the right one for a gay guy, but I did get one ear pierced" (11:04), highlighting the internal conflict and societal pressures they navigated.

Cultural and Societal Implications The conversation shifts to the broader cultural implications of the theory. Vinny Thomas questions the efficacy of such signals: "This podcast, where we dive deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories" (02:52), setting the stage for a critique of how deeply ingrained societal norms can influence personal identity and behavior.

They discuss the historical context, noting that such theories may have roots in attempts to maintain traditional norms within conservative societies. Langston remarks, "It’s an American and very Christian idea... It feels very puritanical" (42:07), critiquing the restrictive nature of these beliefs.

Debunking and Reflecting on the Theory Vinny Thomas challenges the validity of the ear piercing theory, suggesting its origins might be more about control than truth: "I feel like this has to have come from gay people in, I don't know, the 70s, maybe earlier than that" (08:35). The hosts collectively reflect on how such theories, though baseless, can have lasting impacts on individuals' self-expression and identity.

Langston adds a historical perspective, mentioning that "for thousands of years, it was more popular, or at least as popular for men to be wearing jewelry as their female counterparts" (40:34), indicating that the stigmatization is a relatively modern construct influenced by cultural shifts.

Humor and Light-Hearted Banter Throughout the episode, humor is interwoven to lighten the discussion. For instance, when discussing failed attempts at discreet signaling, Langston quips, "We're gonna whip y'all into shape on this conversation" (51:41), using comedic timing to engage listeners while addressing serious topics.

Concluding Insights The episode wraps up with the hosts acknowledging the absurdity of the conspiracy while recognizing the underlying fears that fuel such beliefs. Langston concludes, "What are you gonna do when you're raised in a toxic culture that refuses to look at itself?" (63:08), urging listeners to reflect on and challenge the societal norms that perpetuate unfounded theories.

Notable Quotes

• Langston Kerman (07:25): "my mama told me if your right ear is pierced, that means you're gay."
• David Bore (09:24): "Ultimately, I could not remember which is which."
• Vinny Thomas (08:35): "Maybe there's something going on that I don't know."
• Langston Kerman (42:07): "It feels very puritanical, very like."

Conclusion In this engaging episode, My Momma Told Me successfully balances humor with insightful commentary, using the ear piercing conspiracy as a lens to examine deeper societal issues. Through personal anecdotes and candid discussions, Langston, David, and Vinny Thomas invite listeners to question and laugh at the irrational fears that shape cultural narratives.

Connect with the Hosts

• Langston Kerman: Follow @LangstonKerman on all major social media platforms.
• David Bore: Find David on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok as @VInnayy.
• Vinny Thomas: Connect with Vinny at @CoolGuyJokes87 on Instagram or visit Patreon.com/davidbory for exclusive merch.

Listen and Subscribe Don’t miss out on future episodes of My Momma Told Me by subscribing on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform. Share your own conspiracies and theories by sending drops or calling 844-LIL-MOMS.

Transcript

[Langston Kerman]

This is an iHeart podcast. NBC Nightly News Legacy isn't handed down or NBC News.

[David Bore]

I'm Tom Brokaw.

[Vinny Thomas]

We hope to see you back here.

[Lester Holt]

I'm Lester Holt.

[Langston Kerman]

It's carried forward.

[Lester Holt]

Tom Yamas is there for us.

[David Bore]

Firefighters are still working around the clock.

[Langston Kerman]

As the world changes, we look for what endures.

[David Bore]

We are coming on the air with breaking news right now.

[Langston Kerman]

We look for a constant and from one era to the next. Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamos.

[Holly Fry]

Evenings on NBC explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to lady Catherine Ferrars, Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s, her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Langston Kerman]

You don't gotta be cool with me, Vinny. A fellow gen alpha myself, I.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, look at me.

[Langston Kerman]

Me and my friend David, we also hit that woe with the best of them, you know?

[Vinny Thomas]

TikTok.

[David Bore]

Hell y the clock. Amen, fellas. And I'm just like you, you know what I mean? I watched. I watched Monk, right? I was right there with you watching, watching Law and Order.

[Langston Kerman]

Hey, Monk was a great show. Let's. Let's have our fun. Monk was a great show.

[David Bore]

I'm not stepping a Monk. I love Monk.

[Langston Kerman]

You kids would do well to watch a little. Maybe you wouldn't act that way if you watched a little Monk. The government growing babies, microchips in your anus. All koala bears are racist. The ozone layer owes me money. Washington men and dirty stuffing. Y' all can't tell me nothing. Gold all in my chain Gold all in my ring Gold all in my watch don't believe me, just watch. Nigga, nigga, nigga don't believe me, just watch. There it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the.

[Vinny Thomas]

Podcast, where we dive deep into the pockets of black conspiracy theories and we.

[Langston Kerman]

Finally work to prove that Lionel Richie was only allowed out of his Commodore's contract if he agreed to adopt a white child. You think they were letting that. That, that brilliant man's money go back to a Black baby to the black community. Absolutely not. We're making that white money again. It's the only way you're getting out of this Commodore's bullshit is make this some white money. And that's what they did. I'm Langston Kerman.

[Vinny Thomas]

I'm David Boy. And I've never been more proud to call you my co host.

[Langston Kerman]

It's truly. What other explanation is there? Just two black people adopting a white baby and being like, yep, this is what we got going.

[Vinny Thomas]

It's. I've only ever even heard of it on your television show Southside. I've never even heard of it. It's that, and I know a lot of fucking freaks.

[Langston Kerman]

It's a bold choice even for a very rich black man to be like, I'm gonna get a little white girl and keep her.

[Vinny Thomas]

Is it. Oh, man. Okay, here's. Would you do it? That's. I think, how we need to open this. Would you guys do that?

[Langston Kerman]

Wow, that's a tough question.

[Vinny Thomas]

It's a very hard question.

[Langston Kerman]

Would I adopt a white child?

[David Bore]

I would adopt the right kind of white child. I would adopt. I would say Greek or Italian. I would adopt an Italian white child.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay, I like that. I think Greek sounds nice. A little Stavi running around. That seems nice.

[Vinny Thomas]

But if you get an Eastern European, he could still ball.

[David Bore]

Oh, yeah.

[Vinny Thomas]

Get you a Luca.

[David Bore]

That's true. Get you a Jokic.

[Vinny Thomas]

And I don't know the prices of babies racially, but prices I would maybe not be crazy in saying that you get a little cheaper.

[Langston Kerman]

I'm gonna be honest. Them Eastern Europeans seem wholesale to me. They seem. You know what I mean? They seem like there's no markup. You just get them for what they're worth, and that's a deal anywhere you go.

[David Bore]

I think you play a dangerous game. I think it's a 50, 50 chance if you adopt an Eastern European person, they're going to be a vampire, because that's where they live.

[Vinny Thomas]

That's the worry that. See, man, right? Two minutes in, you're already tracking. That is the worry.

[Langston Kerman]

They're calling you papa and they're biting your neck, and now you're in trouble. Yeah, I got you.

[Vinny Thomas]

But now I got a vampire on the team.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, you're saying you can weaponize this vampire, you can make them into. Into something else?

[Vinny Thomas]

I mean, I'm saying that he will have a love of his father that will propel him to help his father out when his father is in need, much like all of you would be.

[Langston Kerman]

When are you going to be in need of a vampire, bro.

[Vinny Thomas]

AI's coming around. I don't know what's about to happen.

[Langston Kerman]

Fair enough.

[David Bore]

So you're imagining kind of a Dexter situation where you train your monster child.

[Vinny Thomas]

Whoa, you said monster. First of all, I just said Eastern European. You're putting these labels on my boy. No, we agreed on van.

[David Bore]

We agreed on vampire, and I think.

[Langston Kerman]

That qualifies as monster. I'm here with Vinny. I don't. We should introduce our guests. We haven't even bothered introducing him. We immediately launched into speculations about the prices of white babies and vampires. But our guest today is so funny. We're both big fans of his. He's a comedian, he's an actor, He's a writer. And you can see him currently on Platonic on Apple tv. Give it up for the hilarious Vinnie th, everybody. Oh, yeah. I got a friend in this village.

[Vinny Thomas]

That was more ominous than it felt. It was just the sound.

[David Bore]

They told me to expect sounds, and I still was not prepared, I think, emotionally, spiritually, or physically for a sound to occur. And I'm going to do better in the future.

[Langston Kerman]

That's the hard part. It happens at any time. And there's no real way to prepare.

[Vinny Thomas]

For that feeling we grow when we're uncomfortable.

[Langston Kerman]

Vinnie, we're excited you're here. You came to us with a conspiracy theory that I actually was surprised we had never covered before. It's such a formative conspiracy theory. I think in my childhood that I almost think I overlooked it because of how much it felt ubiquitous with my own upbringing. But you said, my mama told me if your right ear is pierced, that means you're gay.

[David Bore]

Yeah, true.

[Maria Tremarki]

I think.

[David Bore]

That'S all true. Everything you said is true. I think by the time I was in school that that conspiracy theory, it was starting to kind of drift away a little bit. Right. But there's always that thing in the back of your head is like, which year is a homosexual year? Which year is the heterosexual year? Ultimately, I could not remember which is which.

[Langston Kerman]

So which maybe is is the gayest thing you can do. Not remembering. That means forgetfulness.

[David Bore]

Yeah. One thing about gay people is we have amnesia. You know, is gay. Oh, my God. Yeah. Dory from Finding Nemo. Lesbian. F. Yeah. Short term memory loss. This is all tracking.

[Vinny Thomas]

So my question is first, because I know we all heard it. Did you guys believe it?

[Langston Kerman]

Vinny, I'll let you answer that first, because I do have an answer. I don't want to override.

[David Bore]

I don't know if I believed It. But I still was terrified of getting one ear pierced versus the other because I wasn't sure which was which. You don't believe it, but you do trust that other people will believe it. Perhaps people who are bigger and stronger than you. And I think that alone instilled a kind of belief, if that makes sense.

[Langston Kerman]

I feel almost exactly the same. I didn't believe it for a second, but I was like, all these niggas do. So who am I? Who am I to jet against their own research? Yeah, I'm going to make sure I get the correct one, Pierce, so that no associations are made.

[David Bore]

Ultimately, it's not the same smart who inherit the earth. It's the brutal and stupid, and they make the decisions.

[Langston Kerman]

Bori, did you believe it when you were a young lad?

[Vinny Thomas]

I think I believed it in the way that I believed a lot of things I was told of this, like. Of this kind of type where it's like, maybe there's something going on that I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was like, I don't know what they do. I fucking. That could be like, I didn't have my ears pierced. It definitely wasn't something I was, like, worried about either way. But I think that I thought that maybe it's culture, you know what I mean? Maybe there's, like, a story behind it. But I thought that. I thought that. I definitely think I thought it came from somewhere.

[David Bore]

I will say I was not out in school and I didn't have my ears pierced at all because my parents thought piercings were disgusting. They still do. I don't know. What about piercings and tattoos and still kind of a visceral disgust in their mind.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, you know, you don't mean disgusting in, like, a shameful way. You mean literally, like, I think triggers a gag reflex.

[David Bore]

Yeah. It truly. It produces a sound in them that is like a kind of scoff, like, kind of like a. You know what I mean?

[Vinny Thomas]

Are your parents a lot older?

[David Bore]

No, but my mom. My mom is white, but Italian white, and her mother is from Italy, like the old country. And so there's a lot kind of wrapped up in there, I guess. My dad's a military guy, so I think any kind of departure from, you know, having regular ears was. Was weird for him. But I did get one ear pierced. It wasn't the right one for a gay guy, but I did get one ear pierced.

[Vinny Thomas]

Damn, you still blew it.

[David Bore]

I still blew it.

[Langston Kerman]

Hey, you and me, brother, we. We both did the piercing. I did It. I guess I, in theory, chose correctly for myself. But that said it all was very rooted in a fear of, like, yo, I hope I don't get made fun of.

[David Bore]

Yeah, here's the thing. When I went to get a Pierce, I went with a friend and he got his. He got his right ear pierced and I got my left ear pierced because we weren't sure which is which, and we wanted to cover. Cover the bases that. You know what I mean?

[Langston Kerman]

That's insane. That's genuinely insane for y' all not to, like, call it off that day and go check and just be like, I'll do one, you do the other. Good luck. My nigga is crazy.

[David Bore]

One of us was gonna be right. You understand? One of us was gonna be right.

[Vinny Thomas]

That's beautiful. Kinda.

[Langston Kerman]

That's the closest thing to homophobic Russian roulette I've ever heard in my life.

[David Bore]

And as a direct result, I'm gay.

[Vinny Thomas]

And that's what happened that day at that Claire's. A lot of people think you're born with it.

[Langston Kerman]

Not all.

[David Bore]

That was really close up that you just said. Claire's was really fucked up.

[Vinny Thomas]

Was it not a Claire's?

[David Bore]

I didn't get my ears pierced. I'd be terrified to let one of they use the same hole punches that they use to, like, punch tags and heifers ear when they're farming. You know what I mean?

[Langston Kerman]

I got bad news. I'm a Claire's man through and through. That's.

[Vinny Thomas]

Let's go, baby. Claire's gang. Claire's gang. Claire's gang.

[Langston Kerman]

Claire's. Get the money, dog.

[David Bore]

You let a teenager stab through your.

[Langston Kerman]

Ear at Claire's stab. It was a little gun that they put to your ear with a person who clearly doesn't know how it works or could not replicate the same hole even if they wanted to. It was a huge mistake. Of course that's not the right way to do it. But I'm of a generation where I think I'm 37 years old. We didn't have the option to go anywhere professional. You went to Claire's or your mom wasn't gonna take you anywhere at all.

[David Bore]

Your mom took you to get your ear pierced?

[Langston Kerman]

That's right. She was a nice lady.

[Vinny Thomas]

I do feel like. And maybe this is. There's part of this. It's like just a lack of awareness. But I do feel like when I was young, there were not nearly as many places specifically to go for piercings. Like, I don't feel like it was always the tattoo piercing Shop combo type of thing. So I do feel like there was. Oh, yeah, I steeple. I do feel like there was less. I do feel like there were less places to go to get it pierced.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. And if you were a real man, you went to Claire's and you pretended.

[Vinny Thomas]

We did it on the bus.

[Langston Kerman]

If you were an illegal, you pretended like it wasn't a business filled with children's jewelry. You acted like you belonged there.

[David Bore]

Did y' all have those friends who did it themselves who, like, they heated up a needle with a fire and, like, stuck it through?

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Bore]

You know, they had terrible infections. Every time I hear someone tell me about that, and they're like, I was oozing afterwards. I was like, what the hell are you talking about? You were oozing? They were like, it was infected bad. It was crazy, brother.

[Langston Kerman]

If your ear looks like it makes a ninja Turtle, you did something wrong. That's not how it's supposed to go, you know.

[David Bore]

If it makes a ninja Turtle.

[Langston Kerman]

So. So you obviously bought into the. The stereotype. You bought into this conspiracy theory, despite what ultimately ended up being. You ended up being a queer person despite that. Do you feel like there were ever any. Were there people in your life that ever told you otherwise? Was there ever a brave soul who stepped up and was like, vinnie, that's silly. Be who you want to be. Pierce whatever ear you want to pierce.

[David Bore]

No, absolutely not. Sometimes when I talk, I mean, I had an older brother. Do you know what I mean? I would talk about piercing my ear, and he'd be like, you better make sure you flip the coin the right way.

[Langston Kerman]

This dangerous game again, it does not have to be a coin flip. You could have just researched which ear was the correct one.

[David Bore]

You gotta go with someone else, and you each have to get one. That's the. The way it works. Research. There's. There's no way to know. Yeah. I didn't have anyone who was actively, like, fighting against it. I feel like it just wasn't as ubiquitous. I feel like this is a very 90s conspiracy theory, kind of a 90s, early 2000s conspiracy. And it's. It's since started to trail off because now I feel like young guys. They got. Young guys now are guys who would have been considered very gay, like back in the day in school, you know what I mean? They got, like, mushroom haircuts and dangly, like, cross earrings and stuff. So I.

[Vinny Thomas]

My little brother wears two dangling earrings.

[David Bore]

Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

The stress I would have had wearing this color shirt throughout most of my Childhood was, brother. So heavy.

[Vinny Thomas]

Before Cameron freed us, yeah, I. I.

[Langston Kerman]

Would have been like, fuchsia, my nigga. Do you know what I'm walking into with this? I don't have the strength.

[Vinny Thomas]

Better be a goddamn school color.

[David Bore]

We better be the fighting Fuchsia Tigers, or else I'm absolutely fucking fucked.

[Vinny Thomas]

You know what's funny to me about the. This conspiracy is like, what a terrible signal if it was. Because I always thought about it as it was trying to keep a secret society type of situation. You know what I mean? It was supposed to be a secret signal. What a terrible signal.

[Langston Kerman]

You don't think it's a great signal. So clearly obvious you don't think it's a great signal.

[Vinny Thomas]

No. If you're trying to keep something concealed, I could just look at your face the first thing I look at and be like, oh, he's gay.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, here's why.

[Vinny Thomas]

Like, it's not. You know what I mean?

[Langston Kerman]

It's not like, here's why I thought it was a better idea. And maybe this is my own stupidity. It always takes me a minute to remember which ear is left and which ear is right when I'm facing somebody. So it's like, ah, you got to sit there and do math. And after the. You don't want to finish the math, so you just ignore it and. And you move on with your life.

[David Bore]

Absolutely.

[Langston Kerman]

I was like, oh, it's subtle. It's very subtle.

[David Bore]

I feel like this has to have come from gay people in, I don't know, the 70s, maybe earlier than that, they had a language, they had secret little signals. And it was, you know, it was gay years. It was the hanky code. It was all of this that now is impossible to understand. Like, to me, it doesn't make any sense. But back then, every homosexual had to be like a Navajo code talker and had to have like a secret break down, like some hidden dialogue. And now it's like, oh, shit, you guys aren't hidden at all, you know?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Grindr used to be you just gotta break a branch off of this tree and walk into the alley, wait for somebody to notice.

[Vinny Thomas]

It is interesting you said the hanky code because I remember when I first moved to San Francisco, that was like a big thing, but it was forever. It was like the color and the placement said what you were into. But I knew a lot of very boring people who also used it. Like, they really co opted that.

[David Bore]

Yeah, some people with the hanky code, I don't think you need a hanky for like missionary and eye contact. You know what I mean? Like that you just need to be open to love.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Do something nasty with this. What are you doing? I'm curious to know how much you felt like something like this slowed your ability to finding your queer self to fully coming out and feeling sort of settled in whoever you are, despite the right or wrong ear piercing quote unquote.

[David Bore]

You know, I don't think the ear piercings. I don't think the ear piercing slowed it. I think it was an eventuality that I was going to get my ear pierced. You know what I mean? Ultimately, I do think it was destiny. And at the end of the day, I don't know if I. I don't think I ever absolutely believed it. What you're afraid of is other people's reaction to it, not necessarily the thing itself. I think it was more afraid of having a hole punched in me, which, on the face of it, is a completely ridiculous thing to do for what? You could stick something in there. It doesn't even make any sense. Do you know what I mean? I think human behavior is just kind of odd to begin with. Yeah. I think I was more scared of getting my ear pierced than being perceived as a gay guy with his ears pierced. And no, I don't think the ear pierced theory had any effect at all.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, that's nice. There's something nice that it didn't. Yeah, it is. Because you fear that this is somehow an inhibitor to people sort of being able to explore, to find themselves, as it were. And so, like, hell, yeah. If a bunch of the deeply rooted homophobia from the 80s and 90s did not break anyone's brains, I take solace in that. That makes me feel warm inside.

[David Bore]

Aw, damn. Come on, T shirt.

[Langston Kerman]

All right. I want to be homophobic again to protect myself because I'm also a co. All right, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to talk more Ear piercing. Right and wrong, right and left, whatever you want to call it. And it's more Vinnie Thomas. More My Mama Told Me.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria, Trimarchy, hosts of criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field. But tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrars, Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes, but you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Hanrahan]

I'm Jake Hanrahan, journalist and documentary filmmaker. Away Days is my new project reporting on countercultures on the fringes of society all across the world. Live from the underground, you'll discover no rules fighting, Japanese street racing, Brazilian favela life, and much more. All real, completely uncensored. This is unique access with straightforward on the ground reporting. We're taking you deep into the dirt without the usual airs and graces of legacy media. A way that it showcases what the mainstream cannot access. Real underground reporting with real people. No excuses. For the past decade, I've been going to places I shouldn't be, meeting people I shouldn't know. Now you can come along too. Listen to the Away Days podcast, reporting from the underbelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katherine Townsend]

Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders.

[Maria Tremarki]

I was calling about the murder of my husband. It's a cold case.

[Langston Kerman]

They've never found her, and it haunts.

[Maria Tremarki]

Me to this day.

[David Bore]

The murderer is still out there.

[Katherine Townsend]

Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking.

[Maria Tremarki]

Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's daughter Sister. There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.

[Katherine Townsend]

If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Helen Gone murder line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murder line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lester Holt]

A murder happens. The case goes cold. Then, over a hundred years later, we take a second Look, I'm Paul Holz, a retired cold case investigator.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a journalist and historian.

[Lester Holt]

On our podcast Buried Bones, we re examine historical true crime cases using modern forensic techniques.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

We dig into what the original investigators may have missed. Growing up on a farm, when I heard a gunshot, I did not immediately think murder.

[Lester Holt]

Unless this person went out to shoot squirrels, they're not choosing a.22 to go hunting out there.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

These cases may be old, but the questions are still relevant and often chilling.

[Lester Holt]

I know this chauffeur is not of concern. You know, it's like, well, he's the last one who saw her alive, so how did they eliminate him?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Join us as we take you back to the cold cases that haunt us to this day.

[Lester Holt]

New episodes every Wednesday on the Exactly Right network. Listen to Buried bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vinny Thomas]

What in reverse, Terry. Back it on up to our conversation about ear piercings. Left, right, gay, straight, who knows? Who cares?

[Langston Kerman]

Who knows? Who cares? So your parents are disgusted by it. What was their reaction upon seeing that you had gotten your ear pierced?

[David Bore]

First of all, I'd just like to acknowledge David's Left, right, gay, straight, who cares? Which truly sounds like an RFK Jr campaign slogan.

[Langston Kerman]

Say it with a shitty voice and we'll. We'll buy in. Then I'll listen.

[David Bore]

Oh, God. I think they've. They've. They've calmed down a lot. I think it was when we were kids, they were very, like, the reaction to. Every now and then, my brother or I would float the idea of getting a tattoo or getting a piercing, and my mom would be like, why would you. Why would you do that? Why would you mar your skin? And since then, my brother's got, like, he has a giant half sleeve, and now I have my little itty bitty piercing, which I think they use for, like, babies or something. I have the smallest piercing in the world. I have one of those hearts that you give like. Like you give a baby a year after it's born. You know what I mean?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Like, yeah, we don't know who you are yet, so here' something to remind us that you're alive.

[David Bore]

Little placeholder. Nah, they've chilled out, I think. Yeah, I think they're cool enough with it now. I think if I asked my mom, she would definitely prefer I didn't get it. But what do I care about her? She's not a gay guy.

[Vinny Thomas]

Let's go, Bori.

[Langston Kerman]

Do your parents give a shit? Does your Mom. Is she an advocate? Is she anti. Where is she?

[Vinny Thomas]

Oh, no, she doesn't care at all. Which is funny because now I'm thinking about it. Yeah, it would have made no difference. I don't know what I was worried.

[Langston Kerman]

About as far as her judgment would have made no difference in you wanting to do it or not.

[Vinny Thomas]

There's, like. There's other fashion things I could have done that she would have been a lot more upset about than the gay year.

[David Bore]

Like, what kind of stuff?

[Vinny Thomas]

I don't know, man. Just, like, going out, being ashy. She hates that. That's not. That's not really. It's not like she would rather be, well presented.

[Langston Kerman]

A classic fashion taboo. Being ashy is what she'd be upset about. Not.

[David Bore]

You know, sometimes I'll go to the beach and I'm just ashy on the right side to let them know. Just ashy on the right.

[Langston Kerman]

That means I want to have sex in the water.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an adapted hanky coat. Really?

[David Bore]

Yeah. Ashley on the right with a gray hanky, also on the white side. I feel like there are worse things I could have done. Like, I think an earring is so tame. I feel like it's a kind of surgical invention. And on the scale of surgical invention, like, I could have gotten those insane lip fillers that make it so your upper lip can't move. Do you know what I mean?

[Vinny Thomas]

Right? Or, like. Yeah, for sure.

[David Bore]

What are people doing now? They're getting their buccal fat removed and they look like corpses. I could have done that, you know.

[Langston Kerman]

What's your buccal? What's the buccal.

[David Bore]

You know, the buccal fat. Fellas, fellas, your buccal fat.

[Vinny Thomas]

Your bucket.

[David Bore]

Yeah, yeah. It's right here on your cheeks, and people are getting it sucked out so they look like.

[Langston Kerman]

Whoa. Yeah, you're just Handsome Squidward all the time.

[David Bore]

Yeah. Handsome Squidward face. You get it sucked right out. I don't know where they put it.

[Langston Kerman]

That's none of. That's no, that's nobody's business.

[David Bore]

None of my business where they put it.

[Langston Kerman]

That's hippa. You don't violate that now. You take it out, we talk about it. But if you. Where you put it, that's hipaa.

[Vinny Thomas]

But, yeah, to all that. My mom would be much more angry about that. What about you?

[Langston Kerman]

No, my mom literally took me to go get my piercing. My mom consented for me to get a tattoo when I was 16, which was a massive mistake and remains stupid on my Arm. To this day.

[David Bore]

What is the tattoo? What does it say? Like, hustle.

[Langston Kerman]

Okay. You want to hear how bad of a choice I made? I've never told this story before. This is.

[David Bore]

It's R. Kelly. Holy fuck, it's R. Kelly.

[Langston Kerman]

It is. It's a big old picture of R. Kelly. And it says, no matter what he does, I'm a fan. No, it's. So my first tattoo, I used to do performance poetry. And I, at 16 years old, was playing with the idea of going by the stage name Language Arts. You know, Langston becomes Language Arts. I swear to God. And I.

[Vinny Thomas]

It's hard to breathe. This is the best day of my life.

[Langston Kerman]

I then went to arguably the most amateur tattoo artist in all of my community. And I took my stepfather, My then stepfather's drawing of a microphone that then the microphone cord turned into writing that said, you guessed it, language. And I took it to that amateur artist and I said, put this as big as you can on my right arm, please. And, boy, did he.

[Vinny Thomas]

I mean, devil's advocate, you can get some pussy behind that.

[Langston Kerman]

Bro. I assure you, you can't. It wasn't done well enough. It didn't look cool. You know what I mean? Like, all of it was a mistake in every way, shape or form.

[David Bore]

You gotta go to the right places. You gotta find a girl who sees that and she's like, yeah, you know, I could speak a language.

[Langston Kerman]

Yep. Boom, boom.

[David Bore]

That's enough.

[Langston Kerman]

It's an end. I truly had a bunch of God fearing women around me who were like, you should not have done this, sir. This is not going to make us fuck you at all.

[David Bore]

God, language sounds like a woman at church telling you not to swear. It just. It sounds like a warning.

[Vinny Thomas]

It's like a tattletale ass name.

[Langston Kerman]

It was awful. I really thought I was doing something, you know what I mean? Like, I really thought I was like.

[David Bore]

No, but everyone does.

[Vinny Thomas]

I see the thought process, though, is the thing. I see where it, like, if it was just a little too far over here, if it was just a little back, it would have been the coldest shit ever.

[David Bore]

But when I was a kid, when I was in high school, I saved up enough money to get a class ring and I wanted to get the word creavi written on the side, which is like Latin for I created. Yeah, But I get the ring. The letters are so close together it looks like cream. So I saved up all this money to get this ring, and it looks like it says cream on the side. And I couldn't wear it the first thing my friend said. My friend Gustavo, he looks at it, he goes, what does cream mean? What?

[Langston Kerman]

Gustavo. Gustavo. What the are you talking about, man? This is Latin. I create. I'm an artist. He's like, nah, that's cream, dog.

[Vinny Thomas]

That's cream. I see.

[David Bore]

That's cream.

[Langston Kerman]

Scream, get the money. Because if not, you weird as, creepy as hell.

[David Bore]

Yep. Cream King of Eastern Colorado, dog.

[Langston Kerman]

It was. Damn. The Cream King. All right, well, you gotta add that to your intro. Intro when the episode's over. He's locally known as the Cream King of East Colorado. I did a little bit of research. Cream King, that I'd love to go over with you. Feel free to agree with it, disagree with it. Truly, none of this means anything. But one of the things that there was a quote that I guess I had never heard, the official quote, but I guess the official slogan for this was left is right and right is wrong. I don't know if y' all ever heard it phrased so sort of 80s succinctly, but that was sort of the phrase, I guess, that circulated around this theory.

[David Bore]

Wait, can I ask, did you read. Did you read the same Queerty article where there's, like, there's a guy on a bench holding a rainbow flag and his face is collapsed into his hands? Because I looked up. I looked up just as a preliminary thing. I was like, gay year, you know, articles. And the queerty one popped up. One of the first pictures is this guy holding a little rainbow flag in his hand. He's sitting on a bus bench like this. And it's one of the funniest things I've seen in my life.

[Langston Kerman]

I did not see that, but, boy, do I want to. Please send it to us, because my God does that. What a silly thing to be. Like, we're gonna show a gay person, but they're not having fun with it.

[David Bore]

Nope, can't see his ears at all. What's the point?

[Langston Kerman]

The left is right and right is wrong was supposedly the slogan that was circulating. And the theory took the rise. Took its rise in the 80s and early 90s, which is sort of odd. A more recent study shows that a list, a company that sort of tracks online shopping behavior, says that men getting earrings rose by 150, 47% from 2022 to 2023. So we're seeing a massive uptick compared to what I guess, generally, generationally, it used to be.

[David Bore]

Did y' all ever hear that it might have started in prison? I feel like everything where it was like, might be Gay was like, oh, someone would make up a myth where it started. Like when people would sag their pants, they're like, you know what that means? He's sexually receptive. I don't. I don't actually know if that's true at all. I think maybe you just made that up.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. I think that's just deep, deep fear that you're associating with another deep, deep fear. You're like, I don't want to go to jail. And I got to find ways of making it so that everything could send me to jail or make me jail, gay, whatever.

[David Bore]

Yeah. I also. It's kind of weird to me that the right side is the wrong side in this context. Because this. I feel like the left side is traditionally. That's the bad side. Right. Like, I didn't go to Catholic school, but didn't people in Catholic school used to get their left hand beaten if they use the left hand? Because that's. That's the devil's quadrant. Is the left part of your body.

[Vinny Thomas]

As a lifelong lefty? Yes. No, that doesn't make sense. Yeah, I'm left handed. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Vinny Thomas]

They tried to teach me how to write. Right.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, they, like, really tried to fix you?

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mom had to come in and be like, you're a stupid person. My genius baby boy is left handed.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. He's gifted. He's brilliant.

[Vinny Thomas]

I think they were just really, really. Well, they were really willing to crash out on the idea of like, I don't know, man, he's eating glue. He's trying to write with his left hand. We gotta get him outta here.

[Langston Kerman]

I got you. It wasn't just that you were writing brilliant sonnets with your left hand. You were being.

[Vinny Thomas]

I was also throwing a lot of rocks.

[Langston Kerman]

Ye. They're like, lady, we got problems. Here's a list. And your mom was like, well, he could be left handed. He could be left handed. Leave him alone about that.

[David Bore]

That left hand contains multitudes. Peace and violence on those five fingers.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

I think this massive uptick sort of speaks to what you were talking about before Vinnie of. Of a different generation. Right. Like, even when I was a kid and I got my left ear pierced, but I also knew better, quote, unquote, better than to get both ears pierced. I think that was also considered, like, gay when I was a kid to some extent.

[Vinny Thomas]

And so there was a weird crossover period. Yeah, I remember that too. There was a weird crossover period where it was like. Because it feels like we're A little. How old are you, Vinnie?

[David Bore]

28.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, we can relate to. Same, same.

[Langston Kerman]

Hey, man. Hey, man. I love Bluey too. All right.

[Vinny Thomas]

There was a weirdo.

[Langston Kerman]

The dad, the mom, they're all great.

[David Bore]

You know their names? I don't know their names. That's crazy.

[Vinny Thomas]

I. I do want to say though, that to. To that point, I do remember being really, really young and having an earring being kind of more of a statement and then having an earring being normalized, but having two being weird and then that transit because it was like you had to be real fly to pull that shit off at first. Two earrings.

[David Bore]

Aren't the fluctuations of culture so fascinating? Because at one point, like, it was the high femme, like princes, you know, performers of the world that like they were, you know, allegedly the. The kind of the sexual icons for what a man would look. You know what I mean? Like, they were super famous.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

And you know, quote unquote, straight. But they all had like earrings. Do you know what I mean? Both ears. Whatever they were, they were done the fuck up.

[Langston Kerman]

One of Prince's album covers is him butt naked, sitting like an angel, you know what I mean? On top of clouds and covering his chest and penis. And he got so much pussy from that. He got an insane amount of pussy off of that. And that doesn't make sense.

[Vinny Thomas]

They really let a wolf from the hen house on that one.

[Langston Kerman]

But he's such a cute wolf.

[David Bore]

The fact you went up from fox to wolf as he says everything.

[Vinny Thomas]

I think he would describe himself the same way.

[David Bore]

Yeah, I think he absolutely would.

[Langston Kerman]

To your point about sort of like the generational changes, one of the things that I researched or read is it talks about how for thousands of years, more than just like since the 80s, for literally thousands of years, it was more popular, or at least as popular for men to be wearing jewelry as their female counterparts. That for royalty especially, they would put on lots of jewelry. Lots of. They would have earrings, they would wear. High heels were originally developed for men to be able to look taller. It's crazy.

[David Bore]

At some point you have to wear a lot of jewelry to distract from the inbreeding qualities of your face. It's. The Habsburgs would have to put on sapphires on their ears so you didn't see what was. Was going on between the sapphires.

[Vinny Thomas]

Oh yeah. I got this big ass chain so you don't see my big ass chin.

[David Bore]

That's what you stand in the sun so the glint distracts you.

[Langston Kerman]

Like today I really look like my parents are Cousins, I need some earrings or something because fuck, I look crazy.

[Vinny Thomas]

It also does feel very, if you just think about it, on the whole, it feels very American and very Christian. The idea of not allowing that to men. Yeah, you know what I mean? It feels very puritanical, very like. I don't even think of it. I don't see why it would be particularly feminine even, you know what I mean?

[David Bore]

I think it's a part of men. Men. It's a part of men are dirty culture, do you know what I mean? Where it's like, if a man isn't disgusting, he's not a man. I think it's an extension of that where it's like if you're not, you know, bruised, filthy, and you know, you don't care at all what you look like, then you are actually a lady.

[Langston Kerman]

Which.

[Vinny Thomas]

Which I think I know people whose whole sense of humor still revolves around that.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

A lot of stand up comics, brother.

[Langston Kerman]

I think if we can pull this out a little bit to almost a bird's eye view, it does seem like a lot of this sort of like damage that we're doing to each other comes from at least some version of a monarchy to the crossover of monarchy and capitalist societies. Right. Where the wealthy can do whatever the fuck they want, but we have to find ways to keep poor people, people sort of locked in their poverty. And so you make these weird associations where you look dusty on purpose just to be able to prove your value in society.

[David Bore]

And a really interesting correlation to that is that kind of the uber rich pop stars, they can wear whatever they want, you know what I mean? Two earrings, bracelets, it truly doesn't matter. But at that same time, the people, the normal people, the proletariat, if you will, could not wear earrings.

[Langston Kerman]

Because we.

[David Bore]

Were afforded that flexibility.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, no, it is. You have to remain malleable when you do not have the resources to survive completely off of your own. You know what I mean? You just wake up and you get to eat. So you got to stay fucking flexible. You can't afford to show up with signals that sort of make people question your value here.

[David Bore]

I think we did it.

[Langston Kerman]

Well, I got a few more things I want to run past you guys. One of the things that also came up in all of this is that, and David, you sort of spoke to the American ness of this. It turns out in Russia it's the exact opposite. That in Russia it's the right ear that you get pierced if you want to signal to people that you like fuck bitches. And not fuck around with dudes. It's like a warning signal in Russia.

[Vinny Thomas]

That, like, hey, this guy's gonna get some pussy. Watch out.

[Langston Kerman]

No, hey, we gotta. Hey, watch out, fellas. It's a pussyhound here. But more a warning to gay men being like, hey, nah, nah, nah. Not over here with that kind of thing.

[Vinny Thomas]

That's even funnier because that feels even more so homophobic to me. Like, let me just make sure they know. I mean, they could look at me. I'm dirty as hell.

[David Bore]

But also, I feel like when it goes that far, it goes from you better not to you better not. You know what I mean? Like, bro, at some point it becomes you want them to interact with you. You know, you're, like, begging for them to have some sort of confidence. He's like, I hope we don't have to wrestle. You know, like you just waiting for a confrontation.

[Vinny Thomas]

The ladies don't protest. Better not be no gay guys in here. I bet if there's one in here. Better not.

[Langston Kerman]

He's all oiled up and finest almost.

[Vinny Thomas]

I'm gonna get a pretty eyes in here. I'm gonna be mad.

[David Bore]

I'm gonna grab that neck.

[Langston Kerman]

Big old muscly backs. Oh, I hate that shit.

[Vinny Thomas]

Neck look like a rip cord. Beautiful.

[Langston Kerman]

They also talk about, in one of the articles I read that China similarly associated the right with heterosexuality rather than homosexuality, but has since banned ear piercing completely. They were like, I think probably suffering the same thing you were suffering with your friend. They're like, we don't know which is which. None of y' all motherfuckers get to do it now.

[David Bore]

We're just not gonna do it if.

[Vinny Thomas]

We can't get on the same page. I'm taking it from everybody.

[David Bore]

Maybe that would have been a better policy, I don't know. Because if they. If they did opposite ears for each. Like, as soon as a baby boy is born, they do right or left, right or left, they end up with a 50, 50 gay population. And that's ultimately not going to work out in the long run.

[Langston Kerman]

Can't do that. We already got too many. Too many girls as it is. We got problems. We can't focus on this. No more ear piercings. All right, we need to take one more break. But when we come back, I have a little bit more research I want to run past you guys that I think is going to illuminate this conversation evermore. So we'll be back with more Vinnie Thomas and more My Mama Told Me.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical True Crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarky, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Hear the story of the gentleman robber, the romantic darling of the ladies, and a tale about a wager over a sack of potatoes. But you'll have to tune in to learn who won that one. Some highwaymen were well mannered or faked it. People were concerned about the romanticism of robbers, but most were just thugs. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Call them robbers or bandits. Some are legendary figures. Listen to stories about historical crimes on Criminalia now, plus the cocktails and mocktails inspired by each. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jake Hanrahan]

I'm Jake Hanrahan, journalist and documentary filmmaker. Away Days is my new project reporting on countercultures on the fringes of society all across the world. Live from the underground, you'll discover no Rules fighting, Japanese street racing, Brazilian favela life, and much more. All real, completely uncensored. This is unique access with straightforward on the ground reporting. We're taking you deep into the dirt without the usual airs and graces of legacy media, a way that showcases what the mainstream media cannot access. Real underground reporting with real people. No excuses. For the past decade, I've been going to places I shouldn't be, meeting people I shouldn't know. Now you can come along too. Listen to the Away Days podcast, reporting from the underbelly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katherine Townsend]

Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders.

[Maria Tremarki]

I was calling about the murder of my husband. It's a cold case.

[Langston Kerman]

They've never found her, and it haunts.

[David Bore]

Me to this day. The murderer is still out there.

[Katherine Townsend]

Every week on Helen Gone Murder line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking.

[Maria Tremarki]

Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother. She was still somebody's daughter. She was still somebody's sister. There's so Many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for.

[Katherine Townsend]

If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Helen Gone murder line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lester Holt]

A murder happens, the case goes cold. Then over 100 years later, we take a second look. I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

And I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a journalist and historian.

[Lester Holt]

On our podcast Buried Bones, we re examine historical true crime cases using modern forensic techniques.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

We dig into what the original investigators may have missed. Growing up on a farm, when I heard a gunshot, I did not immediately think murder.

[Lester Holt]

Unless this person went out to shoot squirrels. They're not choosing a.22 to go hunting out there.

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

These cases may be old, but the questions are still relevant and often chilling.

[Lester Holt]

I know this chauffeur is not of concern. You know, it's like, well, he's the last one who saw her alive, so how did they eliminate him?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Join us as we take you back to the cold cases that haunt us to this day.

[Lester Holt]

New episodes every Wednesday on the exactly Right network. Listen to Buried bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Bore]

Pop my butt. Pop, pop my butt. Pop my butt. Pop, pop, my butt.

[Langston Kerman]

Do you know what pop my butt meant to Harriet Tubman? Do you know what that meant? It meant a whip.

[Vinny Thomas]

And we are back whipping y' all into shape on this conversation.

[David Bore]

Pop my butt. Pop, pop, my butt.

[Langston Kerman]

It's just very funny that she made her read her own lyrics. You know what I mean?

[Vinny Thomas]

Like, it's awesome.

[David Bore]

You guys watch that video. It's her mirthless grin. It's like, hot, my. But pop, pop my butt.

[Langston Kerman]

But, like, why do you have to read your own lyrics? They're your lyrics, baby girl. Just say them out loud.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And honestly, own it. Rap that shit. You should have rapped that shit.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, you should have. You should have acted like you were trying to get something.

[Vinny Thomas]

Who is it? Who did it?

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Ayanla.

[David Bore]

Ayanla. Yeah. Fix my life.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. Fix my life. One of the white whales of our podcast, if we ever get her. Well, no, we finally did everything we needed to do here.

[David Bore]

I think if she actually rapped Pop my butt, Iyanla would have fired a gun into the air. She would have done something crazy. Just the reaction to that would have been explosive.

[Langston Kerman]

She would have gone super Saiyan 2 just lost her mind on that. Okay, there's a few more things I want to tell you about this apparent conspiracy theory. One of the other pieces that came up was this question of signaling. Signaling you mentioned, David. Sort of a way of, I guess showing to other people. It doesn't always have to be gay people, though. I think the term is rooted in sort of gay culture showing other people markings or indications that we belong to the same community. This specific signal, I think also gets dropped into something called hairpinning, which I guess is. Or dropping a hairpin, which is essentially the same quality of signaling specifically as it relates to the earring.

[David Bore]

I guess you would drop a hairpin.

[Langston Kerman]

I don't know. Is that dropping a hairpin? Oh, let me get phrase to. Yeah, to like show a signal without having to get caught kind of thing.

[David Bore]

See, this is what I was talking about. There was so much subtlety in signaling at some point. It must have been exhausting because you would have had to speak a whole different language like in the 70s, 60s to let people know, my God, just write your name on a bathroom stall, you know? And it'd be like, I'm so glad you said it.

[Langston Kerman]

At 3pm I'm so glad you said it.

[Vinny Thomas]

I was thinking it. I was like, that seems like of all these things, that seems like the most reasonable way to do it.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah.

[David Bore]

Name number. Go to a bookstore. Go to a bookstore and just stand in the corner reading a stupid book that people know you're not reading. Do you know what I mean?

[Vinny Thomas]

To get a nut. To get a nut.

[Langston Kerman]

This Garfield book ain't that long. You ain't reading that. What are you doing here?

[Vinny Thomas]

Come on.

[David Bore]

Hate Mondays that much. No one hates Mondays like that.

[Langston Kerman]

Put that book down also.

[Vinny Thomas]

Why do you hate Mondays? You don't have a job, you lasagna eating bitch.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, yeah, I did always. I did always take issue with that. I never understood what was the. These days mean nothing to you.

[David Bore]

Garfield, he had a job. Garfield worked for the doj. You didn't know this? You guys, you work that.

[Vinny Thomas]

I love this.

[David Bore]

Garfield works in the Department of Justice. He tapped phones, he broke into houses, he arrested people. Kind of a badass but problematic life, I think at the end of the day.

[Langston Kerman]

Damn. Damn.

[David Bore]

Odie did. Odie was unemployed because he got kicked in the head by a horse.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah, he was dumb.

[Langston Kerman]

Odie was unemployed and he was collecting a check, but he wasn't making it. One of the things that they said was made complicated for this signaling, right? Because it originally sort of becomes popular in the 80s and 90s. But the reason they claim at least, that these signals started to become problematic is because it gets weaponized by pop culture to some extent. Right. There's actually an article from 1991 in the New York Times, no less, an article entitled Piercing Fad Turns Convention on Its Ear. That basically exposes, in a formal way, which obviously it had probably been speculated on for a long time, but sort of exposes in a formal way that the right ear is the, quote, unquote, wrong ear or the gay ear. And that then makes it a societal conversation and not just this sort of communal one between gay men.

[David Bore]

This happened in the 80s, right.

[Langston Kerman]

This article is 1991. But the trend, I think, begins in the 80s.

[David Bore]

I don't know what it was. I think there was a lot of. There was a lot of witch huntism, cultural witch hunt stuff in the 80s. Like, you remember they're telling everyone that Dungeons and Dragons was like demonic. You know, there was just a lot of.

[Vinny Thomas]

Oh, there was major satanic panic as well.

[David Bore]

Yeah, Satanic panic, yeah. And I think it's part of it. I think that's kind of an extension of it. But also, I think as gay people kind of moved into just kind of. Of society, mainstream society as a whole, a lot of the stuff that was traditionally gay became popular. And so it started to.

[Vinny Thomas]

Michael.

[David Bore]

Hell, yeah. George Michael. Yeah.

[Langston Kerman]

And. And the rest.

[Vinny Thomas]

But George Michael talking about the other guy in Wham. Nobody. He doesn't even have a name.

[David Bore]

No, he doesn't. That's Wham. That's whammy.

[Vinny Thomas]

Yeah. No, I think that. Definitely that. I think also it's just a very conservative time.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vinny Thomas]

In general. In our country's history. And I think that leads to a fear around these things.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. We're in the middle of Nancy Reagan telling us not to fuck, not to do drugs, not to do. And she is meanwhile, secretly, secretly, she who we want to be doing drugs and fucking with. You know what I mean? That was a problem. Nancy should have been like, don't do drugs unless you're trying to get the best. And that's me, that's Nancy on my.

[David Bore]

Rig until I tore down that wall.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, we miss you, Nancy. That said, I do think you're right that it's.

[Vinny Thomas]

Senator Gorbachev. Tear down these.

[Langston Kerman]

Wait, in that. In that bit, is it still Ronald Reagan telling him to do it to his wife? Oh, that's great, Mr. Gorbachev. Tear down these walls, Nancy. Just busting it open for freedom. For freedom.

[Vinny Thomas]

That's Good, because I don't think I could nut if I was president.

[Langston Kerman]

What?

[David Bore]

What?

[Vinny Thomas]

The stress of the job would be too heavy. I don't think I would get a lot of erections as the President of the United States.

[Langston Kerman]

Oh, you think it would really give you erectile dysfunction to be President of the United States? I've always felt like that job's not as hard as they pretend like it is. And maybe I'm tripping.

[Vinny Thomas]

Maybe I'm fucking for a bad person.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. And I think. I guess I've always thought they were all that. So it's not that stressful of a job.

[David Bore]

Nah. Me and David are different. We think every president is a hero and a kind of prophet.

[Vinny Thomas]

We have hope. We're not like you, fuchsia shirted alarmist. We believe in the good people of this country.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. I just thought they were all monsters. I was like, there's no way these monsters are waking up stressed every day. They're probably.

[Vinny Thomas]

What do you say to the aging effect of it all?

[Langston Kerman]

I think what's stressful about it is the pace, not the work itself. Do you know what I mean? Like, you have to be a bunch of places and you have to stay up late, but I think you're kicking it most of the time. It's like business school. You know what I mean? Like, those people drink all the time. They just happen to be doing school at the. At the exact moment that they're doing it.

[David Bore]

Could you imagine being the one that got stuck in a bathtub? I think about that all the time. I would be so humiliated. If I was Taft. I wouldn't be able to show my face again. That shit is crazy. They had to get tools to get you out. Are you fucking serious?

[Vinny Thomas]

And I'm still gonna raise taxes.

[Langston Kerman]

You know what's crazy? I just assumed they asked him to leave after that. I never.

[David Bore]

Yes.

[Langston Kerman]

Yes. Because how are you. How are you gonna let a man.

[David Bore]

How are you gonna let a man if he got himself stuck in a bathtub? How's he gonna make a law? Do you know what I mean?

[Langston Kerman]

Like, I just assumed they were like, Mr. Tapley, I obviously get you out, but you're gonna have. We're gonna give you 25 minutes to pack up and say your goodbyes to the staff.

[David Bore]

Leave your gun and your badge at the door so you can't come back here.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. The Oval Office is closed for the afternoon. And you'll find the door is locked tomorrow morning.

[David Bore]

And to drag him out like.

[Langston Kerman]

No, you finished the thought. You Finished the goddamn thought over here.

[David Bore]

Diary of a Mad Black Woman. But it's Taft being dragged out of the Oval.

[Langston Kerman]

And then push down the steps in a wheelchair.

[David Bore]

Yeah. Yeah. They're like, stop making those bubbles while he's in the tub.

[Langston Kerman]

All right, now I think we did it. I think this morning we did it. This was great. It sounds like we're all in agreement that the signaling was probably necessary at a point, but certainly absurd for us as children to buy into. But what are you gonna do when you're raised in a toxic culture that refuses to look at itself?

[David Bore]

I concur.

[Langston Kerman]

Yeah. All right. Vinny, do you wanna tell the people where they could find you?

[David Bore]

Why are you gay?

[Kate Winkler Dawson]

Who says I'm gay?

[Langston Kerman]

You ugly.

[Vinny Thomas]

That was just the funniest possible time.

[Langston Kerman]

To do was great. And I want to believe you were looking for it the entire hour that we spoke.

[Vinny Thomas]

No, no, I had it queued up. I was just like, where do we. How do you want it to get away from me?

[Langston Kerman]

That's perfect.

[David Bore]

You can find me at V I N nayy. That's V I N N A Y Y on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

[Langston Kerman]

Hell yeah. Follow Vinny and watch Platonic on Apple TV. Vinny's great. This was so fun. Bori, tell the people where they can find you.

[Vinny Thomas]

Cool guy jokes 87 on Instagram. Patreon.com davidbory to buy my special. Buy our merch. Yeah. Where are you going to be?

[Langston Kerman]

As always, you can follow me at Langston Kerman on all social media platforms. Follow our Instagram like subscribe rate review. Send us your own drops, your own conspiracies, theories. Give us a call at 844-LIL-MOMS. The voicemails can now be three minutes long, which is very exciting. And buy the merch. Okay, bye, bitch. There was doo doo feces thrown all over the walls, the floor, the ceiling and it stunk so bad. My Mama Told Me is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and I Heart Podcast, created and hosted by Langston Kerman, co hosted by David.

[Vinny Thomas]

Bore, executive produced by Will Ferrell Hansani.

[Langston Kerman]

And Olivia Aguilar, co produced by Bay.

[Vinny Thomas]

Wayne, edited and engineered by Justin Cotton, music by Nick Chambers, art by work by Dogon Krieger.

[Langston Kerman]

You can now watch episodes of My Mama told me on YouTube, follow at my Mama Told Me and subscribe to our channel.

[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Trimarchi, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious case cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field. But tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers. Known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Langston Kerman]

This is an iHeart podcast.