← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
BONUS: It’s Never Too Late to Start Investing in Your Future with Noah Kerner
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- [00:02]
Reshma Sajani
Lemonada welcome to my so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. As women navigate midlife, we often find ourselves facing some tough decisions. Whether it's managing our finances, planning for retirement, or just making sure on track to meet long term goals, many of us are balancing our own financial security while also thinking about the financial future of our kids. So if you're like me, you've probably wondered, am I doing this right? What steps should I be taking now to set myself and my family up for success? I am so excited to welcome Noah Kerner to the show. Noah is the CEO and Chairman of Acorns, which was named one of the best money saving apps by Forbes last year and a Time magazine brand of the year. It's known for micro investing and has a cool feature that automatically invests your spare change. They've also got a program that helps parents set up their kids for financial success as well as Acorns later that supports retirement goals. You've probably heard if you're a listener of the show, Acorns is a sponsor. But I've known Noah way back before midlife. In his teens and early twenties, Noah DJed high profile hip hop nightclubs and events, opened for major acts like Wu Tang Clan. He was the DJ for Jennifer Lopez at one point. And he built five companies including the creative advertising agency Noise and the shareholder rights company say. He also wrote the business book Chasing Cool with the former CEO of Barney's. And I wanted to have Noah on the show because we're both in midlife and I have seen him through every aspect of his life and I just love what he's doing at Acorns. I think it's so important for women in midlife to be comfortable with money, to understand money and to be financially independent. And yes, I know Noah is the first dude ever to be on my so called Midlife and I'm so glad we did it because this interview taught me that it's never too late to start investing and make yourself financially independent. So let's get to the conversation. Hey, no, what's up?
- [02:30]
Noah Kerner
What's going on?
- [02:31]
Reshma Sajani
You know, living life. So our first question that we always ask everybody is about midlife and what's your mindset? And everybody I've talked to, like, it varies. Like some people are like this is amazing. I'm having the time of my life. And some people are like this sucks. Where are you?
- [02:48]
Noah Kerner
I'm the same place I don't really have a midlife mindset, at least not on a person. On a personal front, it's just like, whenever I ask anybody about myself, they basically say, like, I'm the same since I was seven.
- [03:01]
Reshma Sajani
Okay. But on a personal front, like, you were, like, a dj, so you're used to being, like, walking in and being, like, the coolest guy in the room. And so you don't feel any. Any. Anything about getting older.
- [03:12]
Noah Kerner
Only pain. Physical pain, you mean, you know, like, physical pain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [03:19]
Reshma Sajani
So one of the things for me that has changed as I've gotten older is, like, my relationship with money. So I remember when I first started, when I first came to New York, where I got a job at a law firm. I eventually got fired at that law firm. And so I had this period of time where I was used to a certain lifestyle, right? Like, I was the kid that grew up In Schaumburg, Illinois, $300,000 in student loan debt. Like, going out for dinner was like, Taco Bell or Pizza Hut. I get to fancy New York City. I'm making bank working at this law firm, and I'm just blowing it because I had really never learned about money in the way probably I needed to. And I remember one day, I look at my bank account. It's just, like, gone. It's, like, dwindling. And I think I've been scammed, right? That somebody has, like, hacked in my account and, like, stole all my money. I call bank of America, and, like, I. You know, she's like, no, ma'am. Like, that's how much you spend a month. The older I get now, I have a very different relationship with money. Like, I'm curious, right? You also kind of. You went from DJ to CEO, right? Like, your professional career. Like, how has your relationship with money changed and evolved as you've gotten older?
- [04:33]
Noah Kerner
I. I mean, I grew up around a good amount of money anxiety. You know, my parents were the kind of parents, when the market went down, right away, pulled out the money, which is the exact wrong time to pull out the money.
- [04:46]
Reshma Sajani
Why is that the wrong time to.
- [04:47]
Noah Kerner
Pull out the money after the market went down? Because you just lost all of it. And then you pull your money out and you don't make money on what will inevitably be the rebound. I have a mantra, by the way, about this that sticks in my head that I tell people, which is that every downturn in history has ended in an upturn. I literally, whenever the market crashed, like the last crash, it was incredibly sharp. It Was like one day, March 18, the market went down. It was nuts. And I'm pacing around our place. Every time in history ends in an upstairs, literally saying this to myself. And that day I took all my liquid cash and threw it in the market. And, you know, Carol looked at me like I was crazy.
- [05:29]
Reshma Sajani
Carol looks at you, right? Your partner?
- [05:30]
Noah Kerner
Yeah, yeah. I like, like in my 20s, even. Even as a result of that, like, I emerged out of, you know, childhood with a real conservatism around money. I was a checking account, cash, maybe I dabble in bonds. That was it. So I actually had like a lost decade that was very important for me in terms of, like, the next chapters of my life. But I was very, very safe, very conservative. I missed out on all the market gains for that period. And that came from watching my parents make those decisions, you know, which is, I think, is how so many of us form our relationship to money.
- [06:05]
Reshma Sajani
Absolutely. Did they talk to you about money?
- [06:07]
Noah Kerner
I just, I think it was also a different time. It's like money is part of conversation now. I think it's. It's elevated to a level of consciousness and culture that's much different than, than when we grew up. You know what I mean? But I don't remember. I mean, I. I just remember my father telling me I can't have a second Coke because it's too expensive. So now if I order, I don't really drink a lot of Coke, but every, you know, when I have a Coke, I just order two.
- [06:30]
Reshma Sajani
Totally, totally happy.
- [06:31]
Noah Kerner
Yeah.
- [06:32]
Reshma Sajani
Like, my parents never went grocery shopping without coupon. Like, you could not buy something unless you had a coupon, right? Like, period. That was it. And I think it, you know, they came as refugees, $11 in their pockets, right? And you're right, same thing. Everything was in a savings account or a low risk interest bearing account. Like, I don't think they got comfortable investing in the stock market until they were older and they had, like, assurance that they could lose something, but they were like, you know what I mean, stable. What do you think is, like, the biggest hurdle you see people today facing? Midlife financial hurdle.
- [07:09]
Noah Kerner
I tell the company that we're in the business of managing emotions. And I see a lot of people make money decisions based on emotions. So I think I would say that, like, that fear is probably the biggest negative driver of people's money decisions. And that, that goes back to exactly that point about, like, pulling your money out at the wrong time, panicking, worrying about everything. If, if you want to make good money decisions. When the Markets are not doing well. Do not read the news because it's end of times. So I think I would say, I would say it's fear and that. And you know that one moment when you get sort of a heightened level of anxiety that can make you make that drive you to make a bad decision, that can really ruin your whole trajectory in terms of compounding and benefiting from the long term power of the market. So like, there's this great stat that I throw out sometimes that if you had not been in the market five days in the last 40 years, you would have lost a third of your net worth.
- [08:09]
Reshma Sajani
Wow.
- [08:10]
Noah Kerner
And so think of, so if any one of those days, and obviously there's other days that are really meaningful. If one of those days was a day you had a bad day and you're like, fuck it, I can't deal with this. It's too much stress. I'm just going to, I just want to, I just want to alleviate my stress and I'm going to do this to do that. That's so consequential in the long term, you know, So I, so that's, I would say actually like in conversations I have with people, that's number one.
- [08:35]
Reshma Sajani
Number one is basically like, don't be afraid. So like.
- [08:38]
Noah Kerner
Yeah.
- [08:39]
Reshma Sajani
And so that means to, not. To practice not being afraid. Don't read the news.
- [08:43]
Noah Kerner
Yeah. I think have a really core set of principles and those, you know, whether you're high or low, those principles should drive your relationship to money and your, and your decision. So I like one of them, or mantras, whatever you want to call them, but one of them is every downturn in history has ended in an upturn. Like if you really remember that in that moment when you're having peak anxiety and you're about to make a terrible decision with your money, you know, you're, you know, I have like family members who during, I mean, during this, like, think the bank. There's going to be a run on the banks. I mean, they're right. And then everybody, by the way, everybody moves past those periods and it's like they never existed before. And every time.
- [09:22]
Reshma Sajani
Or like if you own Tesla Slack and you're like, oh, this about Twitter. Bad decision. It's all gonna go down. Let me sell it all. And now look.
- [09:31]
Noah Kerner
Yeah, yeah, that, by the way, that's another one. Stay diversified. You know, don't, don't try to be a hero. Don't have an inflated sense of your own ability to, to forecast the future. Like I, whenever someone asks me A question. I'm like, I'm not a prognostic. I don't have a crystal ball. Nobody does. So the best way to think about investing is to be as diversified as possible. Right? Because you don't. The, the way I would frame it for people is like, would you rather own one company stock or the entire American economy essentially? And I think if you're a betting person, is better to own the entire or have exposure to the entire American economy, which is to say, have a portfolio of ETFs, which is a way of saying thousands of stocks and bonds, basically. Right. Like, so it's all about time in the market, not timing the market. That's one of those mantras I always remember. Like, it's all about time in meaning be in the market for as long as possible. Don't pull your money out if you can avoid it at all.
- [10:35]
Reshma Sajani
But okay, but how do you do that? Right? Because one, what if you don't have a risk tolerance? And two, if you're like, again, like, this is my life savings, I'm really attached. I'm looking at my, you know, I mean, I'm looking at my account and I'm just, I, you know, put in $10,000 and now it's worth three. How do I not feel that you.
- [10:57]
Noah Kerner
Don'T have to have a. Yeah, sorry to cut you off. You don't have to have a risk tolerance. Just look at the data, look at history. It's not, it's not a. I mean, obviously investing is risky, but investing is risky in the short term. If you look at it through the lens of a day, a month or even a year, sometimes three years. But if you have a long term view and you look at the history of the market, the market has always gone up. So sure, if you're trying to make a quick buck and if you look at investing as trading and you're trying and a get rich quick scheme, then you can see it as risky. But if you look at the data and you look at history, it's not risky. Actually, what's risky is to not invest.
- [11:36]
Reshma Sajani
That's what's risky, is to not invest. All right, I want to get to that. No, will you give like a three sentence description of like what acorns is and what it does?
- [11:45]
Noah Kerner
Acorns is where you come to easily and automatically save and invest for the future. When you sign up, you connect your debit or credit cards, you tell us a little bit about yourself, you connect a funding source, and then we automatically construct a portfolio for you and automatically save and invest money for you in the background of life.
- [12:03]
Reshma Sajani
So like, was there a demographic you were targeted at? Were you targeting young people? And like. And the theory was essentially, I want to demystify investing. I want you to take your spare change essentially and put it into the market.
- [12:16]
Noah Kerner
Yeah. So Acorns is really for everyday people. The, the reason we go after young people and by the way, now families and kids, is because the earlier you start, the more you benefit from the long term power of compounding. So if your parents start investing in you at birth, that's better than 10, that's better than you at 18, 30, you know, et cetera. So we focus on trying to get people invested in the market early as possible. And in that sense, you know, it's, we go after young people. But Acorn's customer base runs the gamut from kids who are just born to 98.
- [12:49]
Reshma Sajani
So no. What's the difference between like a 401k and an Acorns account?
- [12:54]
Noah Kerner
If you have a 401, if you have a company matched 401k, like the company's matching 3% or something on your money, you should take advantage of that and max it out. A lot of people don't have 401ks. A lot of people don't participate in their 401ks. A lot of 401ks aren't matching. And then the other thing is you think about Acorns as sort of a portable 401K. By the way, we do a 3% match on the retirement account and a 1% match on the kids account. So we also do our own matching. But a lot of people are moving around job to job a lot. And it's a real ordeal to move your 401k from company to company. So you could think about Acorns as a portable 401k product.
- [13:29]
Reshma Sajani
Okay, I have a confession to make. I have never invested in a stock. I, I told you I was turning 50 soon. Like, my dad did my taxes, now my husband does my taxes. And I always say, if Nahal dies, I am right. And I decided this year when I was doing my New Year's resolutions. Right. Like I'm gonna change this. So I'm a customer. Never invested in a stock before. What is my first step?
- [13:52]
Noah Kerner
I mean, without sounding self promotional, that's like, that's the problem. We solve you just in five minutes with Acorns. You sign up and you're investing in the market. And by the way, like you're doing $5 a day or $10 a day or $50 a week, 25, whatever, you know, whatever you can do automatically, plus some spare change. And then a few minutes later, you've got a retirement account and you've got an investment account for your kids. So like I would say on an emotional level, we try to take as much stress out of the picture as possible and give as much peace of mind and make it a background of life activity. Like there's this great saying that the best investor is a dead investor. And that's because every time you're awake and every time you're thinking about doing something, you're probably, you might make a bad decision. Right? So.
- [14:34]
Reshma Sajani
Got it. So I come in and I say, I got $10, right. I open my ACORNS account and then you just, you take care of it basically. It's not like I have to learn or do, because that's my question. It's like, is there a learning point that you want for people? How does that work?
- [14:50]
Noah Kerner
Yeah, and by the way, you tell us a few things about yourself and we construct a portfolio for you based on age, risk tolerance, that kind of thing. So we construct a portfolio and then we suggest an amount. You know, you decide what you want it to be and then boom, you're investing in the markets. On the education front, I want to make it so simple that you don't need to know, but I really do want you to learn. Right?
- [15:12]
Reshma Sajani
Like I want you to chat like, if I'm a third grader, like, I need a break, tell me the basics.
- [15:16]
Noah Kerner
The basics would be, we just launched ACORNS early, which is for kids. First of all, you can start investing in your kids at birth. As soon as they have a Social Security number, you should start investing in your kids right away. I like $5 a day. Our product makes it super easy. Just as easy to do that. You can see what their long term potential is. The age of transfer is 18. We do these recaps quarterly where like parents and kids can sit down together and go through what's happening. By 6. We have an allowance card that you can load for your kids when they do chores.
- [15:48]
Reshma Sajani
That's so cool.
- [15:49]
Noah Kerner
Yeah, so like whatever it is, laundry this. So they start to learn good habits. You give them money for doing it and then they can make trade off decisions. Should I spend it on my card? Should I save it? Should I give it to a charity or should I invest it? And that's kind of how that process becomes. I think it's all about like understanding the trade Offs and understanding that, you know, investing is long term, saving is more short term spending you have to do, but like, it's not, it's not going to necessarily benefit you in the long term in comparison to saving and investing.
- [16:43]
Reshma Sajani
I read this great article, my friend Jessica Gross wrote it about millennials and midlife. And it's actually really shifted. Like I Almost, I'm turning 50 this year. You know, we went through big booms, right? Like, I was able to really save money. I had consistency in the job market, I was able to buy a home. Right. Like, I did all the things that you were supposed to do. You know, I look at my niece or, you know, my people work with me, you know, moms first. And like, they didn't get to do any of that because there was significant amount of time in their 20s and 30s where they didn't have a job. Right. So much less be able to save. So if I'm a millennial midlifer and I'm listening to this, I'm probably like, what money, right? Like, they're gonna have to work harder and longer than their parents, their grandparents did. And it's clear that like, you know, money has really shaped their view right of this moment in their lives. Like, what's your take on that?
- [17:41]
Noah Kerner
Make trade offs. So save and invest, whatever, whatever you can. Like, the farther, the longer you put it off, the worse later is going to be. So my, my thing would be do it with your spare change. Do it $5 a day. We make it easy to save and invest part of your paycheck. Take 5% of your paycheck right before you're about to use it and save and invest it. But don't put off for tomorrow what you should be doing today. And even if you're saying, I just don't have it, the, the reality is most people can find it. Even if it's your spare change, it adds up over time. But if you wait another 10 years, like me, you lost the, the decade. You had a, you know, you have a lost decade and you don't want to do that.
- [18:19]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. So you're basically. So one example is literally tomorrow take 5%.
- [18:24]
Noah Kerner
Yeah. Or, or it's your spare change and you don't even feel it. Like we round up and invest every purchase you make to the nearest dollar and invest a spare change. Or, yeah, maybe it's one less coffee or maybe it's one less meal out, but the average person can afford to make some trade offs in the near term to benefit the long term. And I, I, I, like, like, you know, when you talk to parents, they tend to be more persuaded to do that for their kids too. So make a trade off for your kids today, you know, and, and what.
- [18:51]
Reshma Sajani
If you only have like $50 a month? Like, is that okay?
- [18:54]
Noah Kerner
$50 a month is great. I mean, rounding up and investing a spare change adds up to like 30 to $35 a month, even 40, depending on how much you spend. But anything is better than nothing.
- [19:03]
Reshma Sajani
Even $5 is okay.
- [19:05]
Noah Kerner
So $5 a day invested in your kid at birth is 4 1/2 million dollars by retirement if the kid continues at 18, continuing to do $5 a day. $5 a day at 18 is 1 1.4 million. So think about that. And then, and then it gets worse and worse and worse as you, as you wait. So don't wait.
- [19:22]
Reshma Sajani
One of the things you and I have talked about too, policy, like, how do we change this as a generation? I often think of my parents coming here with $10 in their pockets and like, where they are now and where we are now. And like, you look around and you're like, is that even possible today? Like, what do we have to do to actually change that for people?
- [19:45]
Noah Kerner
I mean, I think there should be a matching program for any parent that invests in their kids. The government should have a matching program because you've shown accountability as a parent. You're taking the action yourself. The government should match. It's like a government 401k savings plan for the next generation of kids. I think that would be fantastic. And by the way, like, everyone can align around that. There's, I don't think either side, you know, wouldn't get behind that. We have a, by the way, there's a, there's a cool, like the national debt is $34 trillion, something like that. If 100 million everyday Americans did what the millions of Americans are doing now on acorns 40 years from now, they'd have a net, a net worth of $40 trillion through the power of compounding. So I, the, the real thing is get, get, get, get a program that further motivates parents to save and invest for their kids. Done. And you know, you have the accountability of the parents and then you have the matching for the kids, then the next generation is going to be in a totally different spot, you know, than Y, X and boomers.
- [20:46]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. Do you think it's, I mean, it's possible for millennials? I mean, the Times had like, surveyed like thousands of millennials and what they found was that, like, so many of them. Fe, right now, you and I might be feeling like we're bored. You know what I mean? Like, is this it? Like we're craving some adventure? But like, for a lot of people, they're just craving stability. Right? And one of the things that you heard over and over again is like, who has midlife crisis money right now? How do you change that? Like, do you think that's going to change?
- [21:17]
Noah Kerner
I think there's a confluence of factors that have happened over the last 10 to 20 years that make things very difficult for the, for the generation. Right. So that's. But, but again, you know, get back to the sense of stability sense. Like, and I don't mean to keep promoting this or pushing it, but I really believe it. Obviously, like, the way to help create that for yourself, the way to pull yourself out of it is to start taking care of your money and making the right decisions now that will just fundamentally change your life later. And I just, I just don't buy the comment that people make that I can't do it. I don't buy it.
- [21:54]
Reshma Sajani
I think one of the things you're saying too is, which, it's never too late. I do think there's this sense of, well, if I didn't start investing when I'm 20, and now that I'm 45, and I've never done that before, it's too late. And I, I think your point is that it's. It's not ever too late to do that.
- [22:09]
Noah Kerner
It's never too late. And you also don't know how long you're going to live. Right? We have no idea how long life is going to go. I mean, when we turn 90, we might be living forever.
- [22:18]
Reshma Sajani
I think we're. I feel like we're like, living forever and we're like, not getting Social Security. Which brings me to, like, retirement. Right? Like, I do think that people in their midlife right now are really still thinking about, like, retirement. Like, we're just not only talking about, like, saving for our kids college, but also we're deciding about, like, how do I save for my own retirement? Like, how do you think you do both?
- [22:41]
Noah Kerner
Well, the point you were making, I think you need to think about this from the perspective of I need to be independent and I need to be independent because you never know what's going to happen. I need to be independent because certain safety nets might. Might not be there. I need to be independent because life might be a lot longer than I thought. I need to be independent because I might lose My job, whatever it is, like you. So you need to think through the lens of independence. If you're in a relationship, you just never. Right. You just never know. So I always think about money that way, through the lens of independence and, and, and freedom. And then in terms of like saving for yourself and saving for your kids. $5 a day in both directions.
- [23:14]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. Do you think we're gonna do you actually do think there's going to be retirement money for us when we, when we retire or. No. Like, if you're somebody right now and you're looking into what we think's gonna happen, you know, with Social Security, would you say, oh, you better set aside some money?
- [23:30]
Noah Kerner
I would definitely not assume that it's going to be there. I think that's not a guarantee at all. Nothing's a guarantee. So I think you need to think in terms of independence and I would assume the worst.
- [23:41]
Reshma Sajani
Do you ever talk to people, Noah, who are like, you know what? Fuck it. Like, I don't want to save money. I'm not gonna like, do any trade offs. Like, I'm not gonna not. I want that second coffee. What do you say to them? Meaning, like, I don't want to invest because I want to live it up now. I want to put every dollar I have into the present.
- [24:01]
Noah Kerner
Maybe as I've gotten older. I try not to necessarily offer up my opinions in that way as much now because, like, who am I to say how people should live? But my natural instinct is to say, you're an idiot if that's what you're doing. Like, you know, but, but I, I mean, the follow on comment to that could be, you know, somebody could say, look, I feel like I have infinite earning potential. I feel like I have infinite energy. I feel like I do what I love. So I'm just going to work forever and I'm going to live for today. Like, I get it, but it's not a good decision. You just don't know what the future holds. You don't know what tomorrow holds. You don't know what's going to happen to you in your life, to yourself. So you always have to be thinking about tomorrow, even if you're one of these people that loves to live in the present. And you know, I am somebody who definitely tries to balance having like little joys, enjoying my life now while thinking about the future. So, you know, but, but you can't. It's very difficult to live in the extremes like, like that if you want to have a healthy life later. And then I Guess I would say we really don't know how long we're going to live. Like we really could be here for a long time.
- [25:10]
Reshma Sajani
For a long ass time. Noah yeah, it's gonna be a long ass time. I mean, already we're living longer than anyone has ever seen people live. They already. We already are in a place where we never been.
- [25:23]
Noah Kerner
I think it's a weird, I think it's a weird thing when people have sort of this sense of certainty, like a sense of like, or even this feeling of everything's gonna be okay. Like you just don't, you don't know that. So I love hope for the best, expect the worst. I think that's a good, that's a good mindset.
- [26:05]
Reshma Sajani
The reason why I'm so excited about this conversation and so excited about what you're doing with Acorns is in all the work that I've been doing for the past 30 years with women, I realized that we are never gonna be free until we get over the fear that women often have about money. Like, I have a lot of fear in a very complex relationship with money. Whether that means I never invested before, whether that means I have a hard time asking for a raise, whether that means I always want to be, oh, if you please, can you, you know, and don't ask for what I deserve. Because we're taught that if you pursue money as a woman, you're, you're selfish. Right? And it's deeply problematic because wherever I go, I see women under. Negotiate. I see women not who, who are rich, you know, philanthropically, are not as generous as they should be. And you can actually fix real big problems like paid leave and childcare if you had more women who had the resources investing. I mean, there' many things, right, so many problems, right, that have been created as a result of women's, I think, funny relationship with money. And I really do believe that. I'm a living proof of that. Have you seen that? And like, not to mansplain this, but like, what's your kind of, what's your advice in having a more like objective perspective on maybe one why you think that is and how do we get over that?
- [27:37]
Noah Kerner
Yeah, I'm not going to give women advice that way.
- [27:41]
Reshma Sajani
Like, we want your advice.
- [27:42]
Noah Kerner
Well, yeah. Okay, well then I will.
- [27:45]
Reshma Sajani
I'm asking you for the, your advice.
- [27:47]
Noah Kerner
I've definitely seen in the data that women have more of a fear of investing than men do. Women tend to be more risk averse than men. And you see, actually you'll see more of A propensity towards saving. Right. Than investing. So that's a reality. And, and I would say look at it through the same lens that I was saying before in terms of how we should all look at it, which is you have to think about the need for independence because you just don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. And you have to think about investing as a long term endeavor because the power of investing is time.
- [28:20]
Reshma Sajani
I really like that because I think that's the point. I think, you know, we did, I did this great conversation around divorce and I think what most people will say is like the things that they couldn't have anticipated, the things that happened in their life. And for a lot of women, divorce financially is like ruinous, especially for women. Right. Even though emotionally might be the best thing that ever happened to them. But I think planning, having this perspective of like, I don't know what can happen, like anything can happen. And so like I need to have control over my finances and my money and understand it and have knowledge and remove the fear that I may feel around it because I need to kind of protect myself and the fact that I want to, you know, that independence is probably good for my freedom.
- [29:04]
Noah Kerner
Yeah. And that doesn't mean you need to be doing everything. Like obviously you split up things in a household or whatever, but you should know how to do the things that your partner does.
- [29:13]
Reshma Sajani
Right.
- [29:14]
Noah Kerner
I, I, I think that's the fundamental thing. I think two people in a relationship should have shared knowledge and, and by the way, both of them should be thinking about the other person as a potentially independent person because you just don't know.
- [29:27]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. It's funny, like my, my Nahal makes me go to our meetings with our financial advisor.
- [29:32]
Noah Kerner
Yeah. Smart.
- [29:33]
Reshma Sajani
He won't schedule them unless like, you know, because I'd be like, oh, you just go and tell me what I need to know. Right.
- [29:38]
Noah Kerner
Yeah.
- [29:38]
Reshma Sajani
And now he just won't do it. And I really appreciate that. Right. Like I really appreciate that. And I, you know, and him supporting kind of for me getting over that hurdle that I have, you know, established in many ways for myself, over my fear. When we get to midlife, many of us feel like it's just too late. Like there was a period. I'm like, I'm not gonna, I never learned how to invest in the stock market. I'm not gonna learn now. I'm super uncomfortable with money. I'm not gonna get over my fear. Now give me a pep talk.
- [30:09]
Noah Kerner
What if money could be a daily moment of hope and Joy for you. So instead of thinking about like, you know, it is this really burdensome, difficult thing, what if it could be one of those things that you look forward to in the day, like a cup of coffee or a glass of red wine? That's how Acorns was constructed very, very intentionally. We constructed it so that when you come back to the product, because you're doing these things regularly, your money's always adding up. So every time you come back, if you're using it properly, it actually can be a positive dopamine moment. So I would think about it that way because a lot of the other advice would kind of just fall flat.
- [30:50]
Reshma Sajani
I love this. I have things like that kind of in my life. Sometimes Instagram, sometimes, you know, my podcast listens like, oh, this made fun. I want to see how many people enjoyed this or got something from this and it is a dopamine hit. I didn't. Do not think about that. I don't think about money that way. But like, if that could happen for me, like, that'd be amazing.
- [31:13]
Noah Kerner
So that's the idea. By the way, from tiny acorns, mighty oaks do grow. So it's all about, like, what, you know, what if you could come back every day and see your money grow every day. That's a good moment.
- [31:23]
Reshma Sajani
It's a good moment.
- [31:25]
Noah Kerner
It's not quite a red wine moment, but it's a good moment.
- [31:27]
Reshma Sajani
It might be, might be. I don't know, I might go from like being afraid of money to just, you know, loving it.
- [31:33]
Noah Kerner
Loving it.
- [31:33]
Reshma Sajani
Thanks, Noah. This was a really, really, really great conversation. I feel like I learned so much and people are gonna get a lot out of it. Thanks for your time.
- [31:40]
Noah Kerner
Thanks for having me, Reshma. Always good to spend time and I enjoyed the con. Foreign.
- [31:58]
Reshma Sajani
Noah Kerner is a CEO and chairman of Acorns. If you're interested in learning more about Acorns, check out the link in our show notes. We're so grateful to Acorns for being a sponsor of the show. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorn. Head to acorns.com midlife or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures@acorns.com Midlife I'm your host Reshma Sajani, our producer is Claire Jones. Our Associate producer is Isaura Asavez. This series is sound designed by Ivan Kurayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltock. Our senior Supervising Producer is Kristen Lepore and our Senior Producer is Chrissy Pease. Our VP of New Content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oha Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in Midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show@speakpipe.com midlife follow my so called Midlife wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye.