Brooke Shields Is in Her “Give No F*cks” Era

Summary

Episode Summary: "Brooke Shields Is in Her 'Give No F*cks' Era"

Podcast: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Host: Reshma Saujani
Guest: Brooke Shields
Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction to Brooke Shields

In this compelling episode, Reshma Saujani welcomes the iconic Brooke Shields to discuss her journey through midlife. Brooke, a celebrated actress and model, shares her introspections on aging, societal expectations, and embracing authenticity in her 60s.

• Reshma Saujani introduces Brooke:
  “Brooke is just days away from turning 60. Happy birthday, Brooke.” ([02:11])

Embracing Midlife with Confidence

Brooke Shields delves into her evolving mindset as she navigates midlife. She emphasizes her shift from self-criticism to self-empowerment, highlighting a newfound hunger to live authentically.

• Brooke Shields:
  “The first words that just popped into my mind were hungrier than ever. I think I've just had it. I've had it making myself smaller.” ([04:34])

She discusses how reaching her late 50s feels rejuvenating compared to her 20s and 30s, where she often felt the need to prove herself.

• Brooke Shields:
  “When you're in your 20s and 30s, more in my 30s, you find yourself treading water and asking to be picked.” ([05:07])

Challenging Societal Beauty Standards

The conversation shifts to societal pressures on women to maintain youthfulness. Brooke candidly addresses the unrealistic beauty standards imposed on aging women and shares her experiences dealing with them.

• Brooke Shields:
  “I saw something on the screen and it was like a little line or something like that. And I said, oh, there must be something in the lens. The photographer looked at me and went, aw. And I went, what? It's on my face.” ([24:12])

She humorously recounts moments where her appearance was scrutinized, reinforcing the importance of redefining beauty beyond superficial standards.

Launching Commence: A Hair Care Line for Women Over 40

Brooke introduces her latest venture, Commence, a hair care brand tailored specifically for mature hair. She explains the inspiration behind creating products that address the unique needs of women over 40.

• Brooke Shields:
  “We started Commence because there wasn't actual hair care for the over 40 scalp. Hair care products were designed for young, gorgeous, healthy hair, not for mature scalps.” ([35:05])

She discusses the challenges faced during the product development phase and the importance of building a community around shared experiences of aging.

Personal Growth and Authenticity

Brooke shares personal anecdotes about overcoming fear and embracing her true self. She reflects on her acting career, highlighting moments where vulnerability led to profound personal and professional growth.

• Brooke Shields:
  “Are you going to dig as deep and dark and real and honest and open, which is hard to do. Balance and just get out on that stage because the curtain's gonna rise and you're gonna be in front of all of this.” ([45:05])

Reshma and Brooke discuss the significance of self-acceptance and the liberation that comes from shedding societal expectations.

Standing Up for Herself in Business

Brooke recounts her experiences navigating the business side of her brand, including fundraising challenges and asserting her authority. She emphasizes the importance of prioritizing her own needs and well-being over pleasing others.

• Brooke Shields:
  “I don't feel obligated to take care of everybody else first. I'm tired of being used.” ([41:28])

She shares strategies for maintaining boundaries and fostering a supportive team environment, illustrating how her midlife perspective empowers her to lead with confidence.

Closing Reflections

In the concluding remarks, Reshma highlights the transformative journey Brooke has undergone, celebrating her courage to embrace midlife with grace and strength.

• Reshma Saujani:
  “Your life arc is genuinely compelling. You're extraordinary, real, honest, and authentic.” ([50:31])

Brooke affirms her commitment to living authentically and inspiring other women to do the same, reinforcing the episode's central theme of empowerment and self-love.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Self-Empowerment Over Self-Criticism: Embracing midlife involves shifting focus from self-doubt to self-affirmation.
2. Challenging Societal Norms: Redefining beauty and success beyond age-related stereotypes is crucial for personal well-being.
3. Authenticity in Business: Building brands that cater to genuine needs empowers individuals and creates meaningful connections.
4. Personal Growth Through Vulnerability: Sharing authentic experiences fosters deeper connections and personal healing.
5. Setting Boundaries: Prioritizing personal needs and well-being is essential for sustainable success and happiness.

Notable Quotes:

• Brooke Shields:
  “I'm done being my worst critic because it's exhausting.” ([04:34])

• Brooke Shields:
  “You're either the hot girl at the bar or you're in Depends.” ([24:12])

• Brooke Shields:
  “I am woman, hear me more.” ([33:07])

• Reshma Saujani:
  “Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.” ([40:43])
  (Note: This is an advertisement segment and may be excluded from the main summary.)

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Conclusion

This episode of My So-Called Midlife offers an inspiring dialogue between Reshma Saujani and Brooke Shields, exploring the intricacies of aging with grace, challenging societal expectations, and embracing authenticity. Brooke's candid reflections and entrepreneurial spirit provide valuable insights for anyone navigating midlife transitions, making this a must-listen for those seeking empowerment and genuine connection.

Transcript

[Reshma Sajani]

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[Megan]

Hi, I'm Megan and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcast.

[Reshma Sajani]

Lemonada welcome to My so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. I love Brooke Shields and honestly, she needs no introduction. She's been in the cultural zeitgeist for nearly her entire life an icon with supermodel beauty, superstar charisma, and young Hollywood mystique. But during our conversation, I realized something surprising. For someone who seems like the embodiment of confidence, Brooke is also living proof that no matter how much the world tells you you're enough, we all carry that voice in our heads. The one that whispers, you're not good enough. You're not pretty enough. You're not young enough. And here's what I found so powerful. She doesn't deny that voice. She talks about how to live with it, move through it, and rise up. Anyway, Brooke is just days away from turning 60. Happy birthday, Brooke.

[Brooke Shields]

And.

[Reshma Sajani]

And she's just not slowing down. Her new book, Brooke Shields Is Not Allowed to Get Old, is a bold, funny, and deeply personal look at aging identity and how women are expected to just shrink with time. In Truebrook fashion, she's also building something new. Commence, a hair care line designed specifically for mature hair. I love hair, so I'm really excited about this company. As we get older, every part of our body changes, including our hair. So our hair care routine should change, too. Brooke has never been afraid to take on conversations the culture would rather her avoid, like postpartum depression, ivf, and now the beauty standards that come for women in middle life. She's still challenging expectations, still opening doors, still reminding us all that reinvention doesn't stop at 40, 50, or 60. So let's hear what the birthday girl has to say about all this. As you know, on this show, we love to talk about midlife mindset and liseau. How would you describe this time of your life? Like, what are the words that come to your mind?

[Brooke Shields]

The first words that just popped into my mind were hungrier than ever. I think I've. I've just had it. I've had it making myself smaller. I'm done with underestimating myself or thinking, this isn't perfect, that isn't perfect. And when I that's got to got better. I'm not this, I'm not that. And I've just started like. And I'm not a mantra person or a definitely, I'm not Zen. I have tequila for that. But I am done being my worst critic because it's exhausting. And you hit this age, which used to sound ancient and now just sounds middle aged to me and feels even younger than I did in my 20s and 30s because I'm not as tired in the same way. Because when you're 20s and 30s, more in my 30s, like, you're. I found myself like treading water and asking to be picked and pick me. I can do it. I can do it. You don't think I'm this. But I am. I really am. And it's such a sort of pathetic way of wasting your time. And I'm not saying because I think I was always afraid of arrogance. So this period of time in my life is really predicated on really reminding myself of all the things I am and not letting the naysayers, which are just always at the ready, they can't wait to be, you know, a Monday morning quarterback or whatever the term is. And. And they can't. They can't. They can't wait to tell you how they know better than you do and how this is where you're wrong and this is how it's never going to be. And you just think, excuse me, but fuck you. Like, I'm done not reminding myself how far I've come and what I bring to the table and how many decades of a career and education and family and friendship and loyalty that I've, you know, scaffolded around me, who still keep coming back to. To be a support and to be on side by side with me when I need it.

[Reshma Sajani]

Right. And she tells you that you're good enough. I want. So can I tell you something? So I. That's interesting as we're talking about this, so I asked my friend ChatGPT this morning, I said, so what's the most interesting thing about Brooke Shields? And this is what she said. And I like to call her. She. Yeah, she said one of the most interesting things about Brooke Shields is how she continuously reinvented herself while. While staying in the public eye. She became a global icon at 12 with her controversial role in Pretty Baby and later solidified her stardom with Blue Lagoon. But what made her stand out isn't just her early fame, but how she managed to survive the intense spotlight, earn a degree from Princeton in French literature, speak out publicly about topics like postpartum depression long before it was commonly discussed. Her ability to be both a popular cultural symbol and. And a thoughtful, articulate advocate, especially for mental health and women's issues, make her life arc genuinely compelling. Isn't that. It's making you emotional. Huh?

[Brooke Shields]

A machine. It's making me emotional. Oh, God. Stupid old robot. I mean, it's all true.

[Reshma Sajani]

It's all true. It's all true. And ChatGPT sees you.

[Brooke Shields]

Wow. I love AI. I think the reason why it's emotional is because. Not because it's a machine, but because Those are the things that you don't realize you're doing all the while you're fighting to stay truthful and open and all of that. It's like, oh, my God, like. And I wish I didn't have to wait till this age to feel that type of relief. But maybe that's the point, you know, Maybe that really is the point. I can say this to my daughters, but, you know, they. They need to learn this sense of self from another authenticity standpoint, meaning being honest with their own selves. And then. But then you hear it and it's like, oh, is that. What does that mean? Is that perception or is that truth? Well, it happens to touch a cord because I have fought so hard to not lose myself or truth or, like, you know, I just. I just keep kind of saying, no, no, I'm going to show up. I'm going to show up, and if they don't want me here, I'll go here. But I knew I needed an education for myself. I knew I needed to live in a world for four years that wasn't consumed by work, you know?

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah. And it wasn't your everything. And I think the thing is, it's interesting because, as you know, right. Fame is kind of the worst thing you can wish on somebody. It's so like, it's.

[Brooke Shields]

But if you ask kids today what they want to be, they'll say, famous. I know.

[Reshma Sajani]

An influencer. Not an astronaut, an influencer.

[Brooke Shields]

I'm like, oh, please. I was. I was an influencer before. Was influencing to whatever. Be like. You know what I mean? It's just. It's gotten so sort of disjointed. And part of it is great, and part of it is so affirming to young people and. But what's really interesting is how they organize their feelings based on stuff that's external rather than internal. And internally has always been what has kept me just alive. You know, I used to, like, get so overwhelmed and then kind of do a broadcast news where she pulls the plug out of the phone, cries really fast and then out of the wall and then plugs the phone back in the wall and then get. Gets right back to news and her work and, you know, that's the way I lived. I would be like, okay, I'm gonna cry, cry, cry, cry, cry. And then that's it. Moving on. Gotta stay focused.

[Reshma Sajani]

You're right. You compartmentalized your pain. Well, that's why I think what's so incredible about what you just. What we just experienced together is like. And I've had to. No, I, I, I work on this too, because I, I think I too, have gone through a lot. And so, like, I, One of the. I avoided therapy for so long because I didn't want to actually break the walls because that's how I function. And I was terrified of actually trying to live life in a, like, in a different way because I knew too much about what was hurting me. But, you know, I, through my work with a spiritual teacher, I really learned that, like, I can't do my work if I can't access love. I can't tell the world. Right. To love girls and women and poor people if I haven't even tapped into my own raw emotionality. And I feel like that, you know, that, like. So how did you get there? Right. Because your career. Yeah.

[Brooke Shields]

Add to that. Sorry. Just to add to that. It's really frightening to take down the walls because that's the foundation. Right. And that's been your protection. What if, what would happen if you were a raw nerve? You would lose every, you would just melt away. And it would, you know, or just recently had this conversation. What if you didn't like what you found out about yourself? And it's. And I recently said to someone, I understand that fear, but it is a leap of faith in a way. But also, if you don't like something that you discover, I, in my heart of heart, do not believe it's who you are. I believe it shows itself in your responses to things. Here we are in New York.

[Reshma Sajani]

I love it.

[Brooke Shields]

Somebody's very impatient in New York.

[Reshma Sajani]

I'm in Chelsea. So usual.

[Brooke Shields]

This is so good.

[Reshma Sajani]

It's light.

[Brooke Shields]

But if, and if you don't like your behaviors or your reactions to things, that's not who you are. That's just how you respond. And you actually have the ability to practice responding differently and seeing what happens. You know, it's like, yeah, I got emotional, but was it a terrible thing? Did, did the house just fall apart? Like, did I just lose a whim? Like, no, but it's so uncomfortable even to take the good. Because we're so used to being so guarded. And also, it's not all, like, I have worked so hard on my quote, unquote childhood, right. I've gone down all those roads. I mean, I've never done psychoanalysis, but I've been in therapy for decades and different levels and versions and different spiritual plat. Plateaus or, or paths, I should say, through whatever way and read it, whatever it is, and more spiritual than religion. But I'M not worried anymore that I'm going to uncover some big dark secret. And then all of a sudden it's going to be like, you know, it's like, oh my God, this inner monster has been pushed out and pushed down. I've done a lot of the work, but I'm still a human being who reacts in certain ways. And I still need things that put me in a difficult position, like approval. Right. So then I'm like, oh, okay, that really, maybe it has something to do with my childhood, but it's not all my mother's fault or all my father's fault or, oh, you know, it's a combination and the synthesis of a life lived. And yes, there are some people that if they do MDMA or they discover a clarity and I'm kind of going to read into that more. But there's also, yeah, there's shit that people have really pushed down, whether it's a type of abuse or whatever and that type of catharsis. And you realize the ground didn't fall out from under you and there's a liberation from holding on so tight to something that is like, you know, even petrifies after time and becomes a rock, you know, so it's like, I think it's, it's scary and it's time consuming and it can be expensive, but the minute you get a little bit of it and you go, I didn't, that wasn't so bad, or I didn't just fall apart entirely. It's like my acting has gotten better.

[Reshma Sajani]

Because, oh, I told. I couldn't agree more. Right. See, yeah, you've access to things. You understand yourself or why you do or what your fears are. Like, for me, like, I have a lot around rejection, you know, and that's growing up as a brown girl growing up as an immigrant, being, you know, overweight as a child, like, all the things that I thought I wasn't accepted about, right? And they pop up in moments that you wouldn't even think are an example of rejection. And understanding that, though, is what I experience. I'm like, oh, I see this. I know why I'm feeling. Feeling this way, right? I know. Like recently I was doing a speech and was censored around it and it just burst me open and I couldn't stop crying for hours. And I'm like, wait, wait, I know I've done brave things in my life. Like, I know how this feel. Why is this breaking me open like this foreign.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

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[Reshma Sajani]

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Quince.com midlife I want to tell you about a podcast you should check out. It's called Climbing the Walls. This six part series investigates why women with ADHD have gone undiagnosed for so long and how that changed dramatically during the pandemic when the diagnosis of ADHD in women skyrocketed. The show asked why women, why now? How has this under diagnosis impacted women's mental health? This is such an important podcast for women to listen to. So many midlifers are experiencing late in life diagnoses of ADHD and trying to understand what this means and how it impacts our everyday lives. I checked out the first episode and it's such a beautiful, thoughtful conversation on understanding your diagnosis and how it has ripple effects on your mental health. Also, it tackles the ever growing question of how so many women go through their lives without knowing they have adhd. It's a must listen for everyone out there who had their late in life diagnosis or who think that they may be experiencing ADHD symptoms. To listen to Climbing the Walls, search for Climbing the Walls in your podcast app. That's Climbing the Walls. So I want to talk about your birthday. You're about to turn 60, I'm about to turn 50. And I'm like, I, I'm not hyped about it. Even though like I do a podcast about, you know, midlife and I've, I've evolved. But I don't like, like I like to wake up every morning and feel like I can work out. Like my knees hurt, I can't run the same distances as I used to. Like, I notice things that are wrong with my face. It's like the punch on my belly even though I don't eat the cookie every day that I want to eat. Like, it's just, you know, you know, I'm saying it's just like Instagram feeds me like Upteenth, like Kris Jenner facelift stories, right? And it's like, ah, right, you can't get away. And you had this amazing line where you, I loved it. You said you're either the hot girl at the bar or you're in Depends.

[Brooke Shields]

You know, that's what our society does. Like it really sets us up for that, you know. And like the title of the book came from sort of talking to a man who, I don't know what his age was, but, but I Knew I was older, but I could tell he had, you know, knew who I was and probably was in the, the realm of the era and was kind of, you know, had a bounce and a step about, we're just talking about lying or whatever. And when I, when he, when I said, because we were talking about lying, I mentioned my age. His knee jerk reaction was so, I mean, he couldn't even. He didn't stop it before it came out of his mouth. And he said, you really shouldn't have told me that. I didn't need you to tell me that. And I thought, wow, you can't find a 59 year old, and I was 58 at the time, attractive. You can only find a 20 year old attractive. Or, you know, maybe 30. But like, I thought that's happening all the time to people. And then you look at Instagram and you see. And you know, and then I get again, because I was called the face of an era on Time magazine. How the hell do you live up to that? You know? And I, I remember seeing something on the screen when they started shooting digital digitally, and I saw something on the screen and it was like a little line or something like that. And I said, oh, there must be something in the lens. And the photographer looked at me and went, aw. And I went, what? It's on my face. My face. This face. It's on here. And he was like, oh, honey. And I was like, ew, don't pity me. I. And then I had to like, change the narrative and be like, well, these are laugh lines and I've had a life of laughter. And you're kind of like, okay, Brooke, do you believe that? No, you wish the line wasn't there. But then you have to ask yourself what your. What are you coveting? Why? And there are parts of it that do suck. My knees are the worst, but they're also the worst because I danced for 30 years, seven times on Broadway in lead roles of some of the best Broadway musicals ever written. And okay, I destroyed my knees and I've had multiple surgeries on my feet. That sucks. And that kind of arthritis has been exacerbated by said activities. But I got to play Ruth Sherwood and I got to play Sally Bowles, and I got to be on Broadway and I got standing ovations and it was glorious. And, you know, I got awards and like, it's all that joy that then you go, so what if you have a wrinkle or so what? I don't know. I. It's like, to be honest, Yeah. I mean, again, I look at my daughters in bathing suits, and I'm like, oh, holy hell. Really? And I didn't even think to enjoy it when I was that high and smooth and tight and bouncy.

[Reshma Sajani]

And how do we change it, though? Like, I mean. Cause it is about. The middle is magnificent. Aging is extraordinary, right? And we know we're being conned, right? We know all the things that we're told. We are beautiful. I mean, look at you. I mean, fuck, I don't know.

[Brooke Shields]

I don't even have makeup on.

[Reshma Sajani]

But I mean, fuck, like, it's like there's no. Like, we. Like, the mirror doesn't lie, right? There's no question.

[Brooke Shields]

You kind of have to have a come to Jesus moment with yourself, and you have to be willing to say, yeah, there. There. There are things that I'm a. I don't. Like, maybe I feel a little bit of shame. Maybe I'm a little envious of this or that or whatever, but then go, hey, look, but what you do have, like, look at your friends. Look at your kids. Like, my kids are just so amazing. Like, they're just. They're funny and smart and hardworking and pains in the ass and all of those things, but they're mine, you know? And I still get a chance to perform, and I still get invited to the party. Do you know what I mean? And I don't think I would have had longevity had I not been adapted to each new era and tried to hold on to now. It is about wisdom, and it's about, you know what? No, I don't want to go to that. I'm not going to have fomo. I'm not going to go. I don't want to go. I do not want to go to that party.

[Reshma Sajani]

Right? It's like knowing what you want now and you can actually live the life that you want to have or change.

[Brooke Shields]

The life if you don't like it. You know, you still have time. You're not bound by, oh, I have to get married. Oh, I have to have babies by this time. Oh, I have to do this. Check that box. Like, you're like, oh, I don't have to do that. What do I want to do?

[Reshma Sajani]

Well, that's the crazy thing. Like, we're going to live long. Like, this isn't just a period. This is most of your life. You're in this stage, and so you better have fun. You better make the most of it. You better feel like you're not just counting the days and it's Not Groundhog's Day.

[Brooke Shields]

Foreign.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm Hasan Minhaj and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are way too afraid to ask. People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy? Outrageous parenting exercises for Dr. Becky. How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath?

[Reshma Sajani]

It's a good question.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Listen to Hasan Minhaj doesn't know From Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Reshma Sajani]

Hi, I'm Emily Deschanel. And I'm Carla Gallo. And we're here to bring you Boneheads, the official Bones Rewatch podcast. That's right, we're watching all the episodes of Bones, starting with episode one and we are the right people to do it. I play Dr. Temperance Bradnon and I met Carla 16 years ago on set. I played Daisy Wick. Tune in every Wednesday to hear all our behind the scenes stories, conversations with cast and crew, and our favorite moments. Boneheads from Lemonada Media is out wherever you get your podcasts.

[Megan]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth.

[Brooke Shields]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

[Megan]

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. Other People's Problems was the first podcast.

[Reshma Sajani]

To take you inside real life therapy sessions.

[Megan]

I'm Dr. Hilary McBride and again, we're doing something new.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The ketamine really broke down a lot of my barriers.

[Megan]

This work has this sort of immediate transformational effect.

[Reshma Sajani]

Therapy using psychedelics is the new frontier in mental health. Come along for the trip.

[Megan]

Other People's Problems, Season 5, available now.

[Reshma Sajani]

I wanted to ask you something because I feel like, I mean, you've been all of this attention though, or la, but still. I still don't feel like we have enough attention on women in midlife. You've talked about this. We're still, you know, we're still Fifth Avenue and beauty products is still trying to sell us at 50 makeup for 20 year olds. It's still, you're, you know, you're still not seen on screen as you've talked about. The one topic that has broken through is menopause, right? And that's about it, though.

[Brooke Shields]

But it's also the problem with that is we're only menopause now.

[Reshma Sajani]

Right? Exactly. That's what I say.

[Brooke Shields]

That's what I mean. Like, you're either the hot girl or you're peeing in your pants because you're laughed, you know? And it's like, God, why do you need us to be so compartmentalized like that? Or what is it that. Are we that formidable and scary to you? Like, think about that. Like, yes, I think we're a little scary because we are so capable. And again, you know, I said this once. It's. I make fun of myself, but it's like, not like, I am woman, hear me roar. It's like, I am woman, hear me more. And that's scary to people. I love that. You need to make a T shirt. No, I don't.

[Reshma Sajani]

Okay, everybody, we need to make a T shirt on that. That is like, so it's.

[Brooke Shields]

It.

[Reshma Sajani]

I love that.

[Brooke Shields]

I, like, it's. When I said it, I said it to this room full of women at this convention. And. And. And they were. They. They, like, practically leapt to their feet. And I was like, look, I'm not trying to be Gloria Steinem here. Like, I'm not. I'm not that fabulous. Butts. I do know we multitask. We've been. We've raised families, we've run companies, we've started new companies. We've failed. We've picked ourselves up. Is it really failure? We've fallen. Let's say we've picked ourselves up, we've kept going. We've raised human beings, we've made a living. And it's like all that stuff put into one. You don't put that out to pasture. Maybe you don't still breed that, you know, horse, but. But you. You know, maybe the. The full bearing years are over. But think of all the room that there are for other things we're not. We don't get. We don't have one foot in the grave for many different reasons. So I think it kind of like. I mean, it's why I started the.

[Reshma Sajani]

Company Commence, because I want to talk about that. Tell us what it is.

[Brooke Shields]

So it's a. It's a hair care brand. It's a Started as a community. So community has grown continuously. And it was these kinds of conversations during COVID What are you feeling in this era of your life? Over 40. Let's start with what happens over 40. And those who I have known and seen flourish and those who I've seen and known and been very close to as well, get smaller, and they're. They. They start to lose their. Their joy and their spontaneity and their. Something feels downtrodden. And what is it about those other group of people? What. And you have those conversations, and then you look in the chat and you. You see them say, oh, my God, this is so encouraging. I love being around women like this because we're not just women that are going, oh, I need to. I need to do this. And, like, you know, whatever. And you're. And I want to look like myself. Yes. I want to look my best, and I want to be healthy, and I wanna. I gotta get my roots done on Tuesday, you know, and it's like, okay, but let's talk about all of it. And then they started saying, what are you gonna make us? What are you gonna build? And I said, no, no, I'm. I'm building us this. You know? But then it became. How do you. I was like, I'm not trying to monetize you. But then they said, we want to buy things that are formulated for us, not just for menopause, but like, yeah, your. The pores on your scalp shrink when you hit from the time you hit, like, 40 and everything, you know, and it's not. Yes, it is hormonal, and that also is menopausal, but it's. It's everything, right? Your relationships have like a. A different. You kind of have to reintroduce yourself to your partners and your friends, and there are adjustments that need to be made, but there's no hair care. There's a lot of gray, and there's a lot of supplements, but there wasn't actual. The white space for actual hair care for the over 40 scalp. Like, you're hearing the word skinification of scalp much more now because what. We were talking about it for a long time. We didn't coin that term, but, you know, people don't treat their scalp like skin. So I started being a total geek and, you know, go into the lab and call the formulator and the R and D guy, you know, two in the morning, and leave a message, just going, okay, but our instant shampoo, we need a hero product, and it has to have hyaluronic acid because all dry shampoos are aerosol benzene drying for the scalp, bad for the environment, and don't address patchy dry parts on. On your scalp, which happens over 40. And women's hair was thinning and. And they just felt like they being given products for young, gorgeous, healthy, scalped, bouncy, shiny hair.

[Reshma Sajani]

It's true and it's funny and I love that you focus on hair. I have, I, my hair is great hair. Well, my hair is my everything. Right? But see it's funny you say that because I've lost a lot of hair and it really bothers me. Like I have my skincare routine. What should be my hair routine.

[Brooke Shields]

Okay, I, I can tell you what I do. I don't, I don't. We kind of sort of say like let's you can do with our six products how you want. But what I, I would address your scalp as you do your face and that involves using, not, not using shampoos that strip your hair and strip the scalp and really challenge the skin's natural biome. Use conditioner that doesn't just sit on top of the hair strand but actually gets in absorbed. I mean the shampoo and conditioner you can use absolutely every day. You can use the root serum every day. I don't wash my hair every day.

[Reshma Sajani]

I don't either. It's better not to, right?

[Brooke Shields]

If, if you get a good blowout, to be honest, don't waste it. You can, you can. If the shampoo is, if you're using our shampoo, there's all plant based. There's nothing harmful. It's color safe. It's again plant based. It. We have our, our proprietary complex which has acai and bactylacillus fermentation which took me a while to learn how to say. And you know we have all these things that actually get absorbed by the poor, nourish the hair from the root all the way to the tip. So those are things that are. It's not multi level. I put the root serum in at my scalp, I put it on my fingers like this and I press it into my scalp every day. It's like food for your scalp. I use the instant shampoo on dry hair every day because it also volumizes well. I never say you should or shouldn't like. My one friend uses our leave in conditioner as a blow drying protection because it's. Our products are safe and protecting from heat and environmental. So those are things that some people's hair gets really frizzy in this kind of weather.

[Reshma Sajani]

Right. It depends on texture. So I wanna. Well that's amazing and I'm excited.

[Brooke Shields]

Well, we're in the fundraising phase which is enough to make anyone pass out.

[Reshma Sajani]

So what has the fundraising phase taught you? Because I heard you tell this story. You were raising money and you were selling your company, but this dude VC was basically telling you what you needed to do before you'd even heard your pitch. I'm sure that happens all the time. When I talk to my friends who are founders, it happens all the time. And I imagine if you were younger, instead of being like, what you did, you kind of told them, hold on a minute. You know what I mean? And you. You spoke your. You spoke your truth. How has, like, this moment age helped you with any tools that you've learned, you know, on the road in this space to, like, help you use your voice and stand up for yourself?

[Brooke Shields]

I don't feel obligated to take care of everybody else first. And I don't. I. My. The way I used to be is make everybody's opinion or behavior really matter. And. And, well, I don't want to. If I do that, it's gonna hurt their feelings or. Or, oh, well, I got. I. You know, there's just like, obligatory. You should be good, say yes. You know? Yeah. That they. You know, they can, but you're just gonna help out. That's what you're gonna do, you know, and then you get to. So tired of being used. And this era, I just recently said to my partner, we need to lighten our load. We are being dragged down right now. We are being dragged down, and you and I are the team. And the people that are yelling, I don't want them. I don't want them on my. I don't want that energy. I don't want any of that out. Whereas if this had been 10 years ago, I would have been like, oh, she's going to be really mad. Like, let's just. She's good, you know? Or he's. He, He. He'll do it. He'll deliver. We will. Well, guess what? Time is running out. I need it now. We need it sooner than later. We sell out of products. We need to make more. It's like. And our minimums are no joke. So this era, because of the company, I'm able to take on a position at Actors Equity that I would have never thought that I would have been afraid to have a voice. I now say, why are we spending so much time on that person's attitude and words? Get rid of him. He's not helping. And it's like that. Making an enemy or saying no or hurting someone's feelings. What if they don't like me? And the weird thing is the times that I have stood up, like, sweaty, of course, like, in a. And really, like, Panicky and having to, like, call my therapist before and after. These people changed their tone so quickly that it's like breaking up with a bad boyfriend when they then go, well, you know what? You're fat anyway, and I never liked you anyway. And then you're stupid and you go, oh, thank you. You just made this so easy for me. I'm still breaking up with you. Whereas then, you know, it's like the good when they have you on the hook, oh, you're the best. And then the minute you do something.

[Reshma Sajani]

They don't like, true colors show up, come through.

[Brooke Shields]

And when you see that enough in business, you just want to get there quicker. You know, you don't want to waste any time. And you know what? I'm okay saying, this is what I don't know, but this is what I do know. And you can't tell me I don't know this. I'm happy to be the first one to learn about a cap table and the total addressable market and the EBITDA and all of all those words that I had to, like, look up, you know, I'm a French major, I'm not a business major. And so. But guess what? Okay. I get person who knows better than I do, and they're on the team, and then they teach me, you know, and it's like that era. This is this era for me.

[Reshma Sajani]

I love that. I love that. And it's so. I love what you just said. And it's a good way for us to close, which is like, you're in an era in your life, in your age, with your wisdom to say, this is what I know, and this is what I don't know. And the confidence to say that is, I think, is really powerful.

[Brooke Shields]

And it was to find, to end that is like, I was. I was quoted as saying, oh, this is my, like, no give no fucks era or something like that. And I'm sure I said that because I have a mouth on me, but. But. But it's less about that. And I know I did say it in some way, but I think what it is, is I really do give a lot of those for myself. And that never was like this.

[Reshma Sajani]

I love that.

[Brooke Shields]

When you hear yourself even say it, you're kind of like, oh, yes, hold on to that. Listen to what you just said to her.

[Reshma Sajani]

And it's. You know, I wrote a whole book about how we socialize girls to basically take up no space and, you know, and just to be small and to shrink ourselves and be people pleasers. And I love what you're saying in terms of like, you get to middle age, in midlife, and it is, it's setting that little girl free to think about me. And I love that.

[Brooke Shields]

And it's not selfish and it's not arrogant and it's not. And you know what? It, it's, if not now, when you know that, that quote. But it's, it's. My therapist said to me, God, a couple years ago, she goes, God, I just want you to walk in rooms bigger. I just want you to look at your life bigger and see, feel the fullness of that. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. And then you, you know, you get a kind of a compliment, even if it's from a machine and you go, you know, it's like, why was that my reaction? Instead of, yeah, it's like, oh, you're not used to, it's hard to take. You know, I just. Sorry and I'll shut up. But I just worked with Glenn Close and Naomi Watts and I had this crazy, not fun character I had to play. And you know, I debated whether I would even do it. And of course, because it was terrifying, I had to do it. And I was so nervous and like, really, I felt like I was going to feel shame acting opposite these two wonderful, beautiful, talented, nuanced, strong women who have done so much that I haven't done and been acknowledged for it in a way that I never really was or will be in that way, whether it's an award or whatever, more opportunity. And here I was in front of this with like 8 page monologues that went through every emotion possible and tears and, and all this stuff. And I thought, what is, what are you doing and why are you here? And I went to the bathroom and I had one of those, you know, movie scenes where you go and you look at yourself and you know, I am good, I am strong, I'm smart. You're kind of like, ah. So then I was like, okay. I was like, ask yourself one question, Brooke. Are you going to go out there and belittle yourself so much that it's a self fulfilling prophecy that you suck? Or are you going to go dig as deep and dark and real and honest and open, which is hard to do. Balance and just get out on that stage because the curtain's gonna rise and you're gonna be in front of all of this. And it was with this amazing director. And at the end of the day, she came up to me and I was done. And she said, I need to tell you something. And I said what? She said, that was incredible work today. And I went, oh, thank you, thank you. You're a great director. Thank you. And I started bouncing away and going, could look at the project. And I couldn't wait to get out of there. She grabbed, she's, her name is Utah. She's. That's scary. Anyway, she grabs my shoulders and she goes, no, you need to listen to this and you need to hear it and you need to accept it. And she just reiterated what her impression was and I burst into tears and. And I was like, you know, even I've been crying all day. And I just walked away going. And then the messages I got from the actresses were like, I couldn't believe they were sending me the things that they don't have to say. I was in it for one scene, like they're in the whole show. And I thought to myself, you know what? That's who you are. You show up, but you need to show up for yourself and not be afraid. And it was such a lesson, you know, I don't know if I want to do those kinds of scenes all the time because they were miserable. But you know, I like making people laugh. But it was so affirming to me and I thought, you know what? I don't need warrants. And those kind of accolades, yeah, they'd be nice. But does it mean I don't have talent? No. And do I need that kind of praise every time? No. But I need to believe it and I do so much more. So now I'll shut up.

[Reshma Sajani]

And just to end with ChatGPT, your life, your arc of your life is genuinely compelling. You're extraordinary like you are extraordinary and just real and honest and authentic and thank you, thank you, thank you. This is a wonderful conversation. Huge thank you to Brooke Shields for joining me today. Check out her latest book, Brooke Shields is not allowed to get old and her hair care line for women over 40 called Commence. One last thing, thank you for listening to my so called midlife. If you haven't yet, now's a great time to and subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content like Brooke talking about her experience with postpartum depression and her decision to write a book about it long before the topic was discussed publicly. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com thanks and we'll be back next week. I'm your host Reshma Sajani. Our Associate producer is Isaura Asavez and our senior producer is Chrissy Pease. This series is sound designed by Ivan Kurayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell in Karen Waltok. Our VP of New Content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oja Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this [e-mail] midlife follow my so called Midlife wherever you get your podcast or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye.

[Megan]

Hi, I'm Megan and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I am so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Hear new episodes each week ad free on Amazon Music. You can also ask Alexa Alexa play Confessions of a Female Founder Ponder with Megan on Amazon Music and she will.

[Emily Deschanel]

Want more from your favorite Lemonada Media podcasts while supporting the shows that help make life suck less. Subscribe to Lemonada Premium today. As a subscriber, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like never before heard interviews, behind the scenes moments, bonus episodes, and so much more. It's easy to sign up no matter what podcast app you use on Apple. You can just click the Lemonada logo in the Apple podcast app and hit subscribe. For all other podcast apps, head to Lemonada supportingcast FM to subscribe. That's Lemonada supportingcast FM.