Introducing: Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe (featuring Sheryl Lee Ralph)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Introducing: Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe (Featuring Sheryl Lee Ralph)

Podcast Information

• Title: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
• Host/Author: Lemonada Media
• Episode: Introducing: Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe (featuring Sheryl Lee Ralph)
• Release Date: December 25, 2024

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Overview

In this special episode of My So-Called Midlife, host Reshma Saujani introduces listeners to Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, a new podcast celebrating Black women in entertainment. The episode features an insightful conversation with acclaimed actress and singer Sheryl Lee Ralph, delving into her illustrious career, her pivotal role in Dreamgirls, and her experiences navigating the entertainment industry as a Black woman.

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Introduction to Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe

Reshma Saujani begins by presenting Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, highlighting its mission to honor and document the stories of Black women who have significantly impacted the entertainment landscape. Lena Waithe, an Emmy-winning actor, producer, and writer, hosts the show, engaging with trailblazers like Jada Pinkett Smith and Debbie Allen. The platform aims to showcase the creative processes, journeys, and personal narratives of these influential women.

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Sheryl Lee Ralph’s Journey in Entertainment

The core of the episode focuses on Sheryl Lee Ralph’s experiences, particularly her groundbreaking role in Dreamgirls and her transition to Broadway. Ralph shares her challenges and triumphs in the industry, providing listeners with an intimate look into her dedication and resilience.

Breaking into Broadway with Dreamgirls

Ralph recounts her audition process for Dreamgirls, describing it as both "great" and "traumatizing". She reflects on the emotional turmoil she faced after being fired from a previous musical, only to be urged by her friend Jeffrey to seize the opportunity on Broadway.

[08:28] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "I don't even know who I read with. So I read, and then I meet Michael Kamen, who is the musical, and they give me a song... Great, you're hired."

Despite initial setbacks, Ralph's perseverance led her to a pivotal role that became a cornerstone of her career. She emphasizes the importance of wanting to "win" and make her mark each time she steps onto the stage.

[32:13] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "I wanted to win. I wanted to be here. I want to be something that... I see Isa, I see Quinta. I'm like, look at my daughters."

Navigating Industry Challenges

Ralph discusses the racial barriers she encountered, particularly during the time Dreamgirls was produced. She opens up about the pervasive racism and the impact it had on her and her peers, highlighting the silence surrounding critical issues like AIDS during that era.

[04:09] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "Nobody's going to like you talking about this, talking about AIDS. But of course, it didn't have a name then..."

Her commitment to her craft remained unwavering even amidst personal and professional challenges, showcasing her strength and dedication.

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Transition to Television and Sister Act 2

Expanding her repertoire, Ralph talks about her foray into television and film, including her role in Sister Act 2. She shares anecdotes about working with Lauryn Hill and the emotional depth required to portray complex familial relationships.

[24:04] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "The name of the band is Fugees. The Fugees. And I said to her, sweetheart, you are definitely gonna be a star."

Ralph emphasizes the importance of authentic connections and the profound impact of mentorship, recalling guidance from Rosalind Cash that reinforced her identity as a "great actress."

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Legacy and Influence in Modern Entertainment

Ralph reflects on her current work with Abbott Elementary, highlighting the seamless transition between different acting styles, from film to multicam sitcoms. She discusses the evolution of her acting process, learning to "just be" and embody her characters without overacting.

[34:24] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "Don't act. Learn your lines. Understand the character. Now be. Yeah, just go ahead and be."

Her collaboration with Quinta Brunson on Abbott Elementary underscores her adaptability and continued relevance in the ever-changing entertainment industry.

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Personal Insights and Philosophies

Throughout the conversation, Ralph shares her philosophies on acting and personal growth. She underscores the significance of self-awareness, preparation, and genuine connection with others as pillars of her success.

[47:15] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "Oh, my God. First of all, you've got to know yourself. You got to know who you are. You have to like yourself."

Ralph's dedication to her craft and her ability to mentor and support the next generation of actors is evident, reinforcing her role as a matriarchal figure in the industry.

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Conclusion

Reshma Saujani wraps up the episode by highlighting the invaluable insights shared by Sheryl Lee Ralph. The conversation not only celebrates Ralph’s storied career but also serves as an inspiration for listeners navigating their own midlife journeys. By bridging past experiences with present accomplishments, Ralph exemplifies how determination, resilience, and authenticity can lead to enduring success.

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Notable Quotes

• [32:16] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "I wanted to win."
• [34:24] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "Don't act. Learn your lines. Understand the character. Now be. Yeah, just go ahead and be."
• [47:15] Sheryl Lee Ralph: "Oh, my God. First of all, you've got to know yourself. You got to know who you are. You have to like yourself."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of My So-Called Midlife offers a profound exploration of Sheryl Lee Ralph's legacy in entertainment. Through her candid storytelling and reflective insights, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the perseverance and passion that drive meaningful success. Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe stands as a testament to celebrating and elevating the voices of Black women who shape the cultural narrative.

Transcript

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Lemonade.

[Quinta Brunson]

Hey, listeners, we're taking a break for the holidays, so we're using this space to introduce you to one of our favorite shows, Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe. Hosted by Emmy award winning actor, producer and writer Lena Waithe, Legacy Talk is a love letter to black women in entertainment. Lena sits down with legendary trailblazers such as Jada Pinkett Smith and Debbie Allen about their creative process, their journey, and how they became the incredible women they are today. It's a documentation of the stories and experiences of women who shifted narratives, broken barriers and inspired a generation. On the first episode of Legacy Talk, Lena sits with the acclaimed actress and singer Cheryl Lee Roth about her groundbreaking role in Dreamgirls and the journey that led her to Broadway. After you listen, search for Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast. You can also find a link in the show notes that will take you there. Enjoy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You talk about Moesha.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Ah, Legacy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, Legacy.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Oh, you can do everything. So now do nothing. I was like, I'm an award winning actress. Want me to do nothing.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You wanted to win.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I wanted to win.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Is that what you're taking with you every single time you do the stage?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Every single, single time. I want to make it. I want to be here.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's such a great line when you say, you know, your dad loves you, your brother loves you, and.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I love you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I love you too. Legacy.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Oh, Legacy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So happy to have you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you. Good to be here with you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you for joining me. I think what I try to do in preparing, it's about wanting to start at the beginning.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Truly the beginning.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I know, right? I think about the beginning as flagship Beginnings. Uh oh, we're filming this. Okay, go ahead. You good, Atia? Of course your son comes in, which, you know, I'll talk about him. He and I, as you know, built such a strong friendship meeting at the Coffee Bean, like up the street from my house.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It was just all love and he was telling me his story and you being his mom was just a part of that. And I just sort of got to know you, I think, in a way by befriending your son. He's such an amazing human. You have two amazing children. So I think that's actually the beginning where we should start. So kudos to him for walking in with water. We're at his place of business. Walk good.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So what a beautiful journey.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Etienne has a great spirit, a great heart, and he's a natural connector. Yes, he is going to. Etienne could be in a completely strange land, walk through a crowd and Come out on the other aside and say, look at my new friend. Look who I went to school with. You've got to meet this person. And he has always been like that. So to me, it's so amazing when people say you are who you are. That is absolutely true because he was just born that way.

[Unknown Interviewer]

In my preparation for this conversation with you, I wanted to talk to him. And what he said to me was that you are a great connector. That's what he said. He said my mom can connect with anyone. That is such a through line. There's a lot of through lines as I look at the word. People are drawn to you. There's something that feels very natural and very real. But at the same time, you're still a star, you're still an actress. So there's a regalness to you as well that is more than the average person, which speaks to why you're on screen and why you're on stage. But to go back to your flagship, as I was looking at your work, I was like, I think that for you, in a way, is Dreamgirls.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Oh, absolutely.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And what's interesting about it is I did not have the blessing of being born at the time where I could go see it in person. I think of that show as a miracle because there's so much joy in it. It's the beginning of something. There's a shift in culture, but it also represents a sadness and a grief as well. In terms of who. Who helped to bring it to life sort of lost their lives in a.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Way, which was very difficult for me. Of course, I can't imagine a young person. First of all, I'm a child of the 60s, so, you know, you face things like racism head on, where people want you to know how different you are, how people want to tell you what you can and cannot do, who want to provide limits for you, when of course, you have great ability to go far beyond those limits. But they want to tell you, no, no, no. You just because of the color of your skin. So I know what it is like to be othered. So here I am now, living my life's dream on Broadway, right? And my friends start dropping dead. They start dropping dead of this disease that has no name, right? I was like, wait a minute, is nobody going to say anything about what's going on and have people look at me and tell me, shut up. Nobody's going to like you talking about this, talking about aids. But of course, it didn't have a name then. It was just called Grid Gay, related Immune deficiency disease. Right. And nobody wanted to talk about it. And it was just, like, such a horrible silence that just fell over Broadway.

[Unknown Interviewer]

In the midst of that, you are still having to be an artist.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You know, you have to go on stage, and you are originating a role. I'm curious about. What is your process to bring Deana to life every night on stage, even in the midst of the devastation that you just spoke about?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I know Deena. I am Deena. And Dina would fight, too, because Dina became strong enough to fight for herself. Cheryl became strong enough to know that her voice should be heard.

[Unknown Interviewer]

What was the audition process like for Dreamgirls?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

It was great. It was traumatizing, I'm sure, but it was great. I had done a musical called Reggae, which was an absolute flop. Yeah. I think we might have opened when the newspaper strike happened and closed when the garbage strike happened, or something beyond. It was something horrible. Right. And how I got that role was I had been fired from another musical. They left us on the road. They literally left us on the road in Delaware at the Dupont Theater. And they left us, and they left the four black kids a night note and said, stylistically, you no longer fit into the show. And they left us and went to the Kennedy Center. They were a flop, too. They closed.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

But I was so hurt. And I remember I was crying the ugly cry. You know, the one where your nose hurts. You can't even touch your nose, you've cried so hard. And my friend Jeffrey is on the phone saying, cheryl, Lord God, I've been trying to reach you, girl. Get on the first thing smoking out of Delaware. They're firing the leading lady in this musical. She can't sing, she can't act. You can't sing, you can't act. Come on, girl. You have to be here tomorrow morning.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Just like in a movie, right? So I show up in the alley of the Biltmore Theater with my little suitcase, having taken the bus from Delaware to Broadway. I get there, and I remember. I think it was Keke Shepherd. I think Vanessa Bell Calloway always, you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Know, remind us to rub the. The truck from Lucky for luck.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Exactly.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So there they all are hanging out outside, and Michael Butler comes out. Michael Butler had had a big hit called Hair. And he comes out and he hands me a script, and he says, come in. And I go in, and he says, okay.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I don't even know who I read with. So I read, and then I meet Michael Kamen, who is the musical, and they give me a song. Everything that Touches you you say you're all alone with visions all your own the things you feel Nobody feels the same and I remember I sang it, and Michael Butler looks at me and he says, great, you're hired. That's how I got to Broadway. Well, imagine us in this theater that seats maybe, what, 1200 people? Here it is a Sunday matinee, and there may be, what, 12 people in the audience. But one of those people was Tom Ion. And Tom Ion comes backstage and he says, the show is terrible, but you are not. And here's your next job.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Be here on Monday. And it was 890 Broadway. So I go there to 8, 9. Then this time, all of these women are just pouring into this place. And I'm walking behind Loretta Devine.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Because Loretta Devine was already somebody.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I'm just fascinated because I'm walking behind Loretta Devine.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's amazing.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And we get into the place, and we're sitting there, and I'm hearing these women. They're not singing. It's an emotional experience. They're singing, and they're literally. The building in my mind is levitating with the vibrations. I go in, and they ask me to sing something from church. I think they thought I was a Baptist and didn't know I'm a little Episcopalian girl.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So I sang Ave Maria.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So when I finished, there was silence, and I was asked to leave, and I sat down to wait. And I'm hot and I'm angry because these. I did Ave Maria.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And you feel like they weren't feeling it.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I know they. In my mind, they were not feeling it. How could you feel it when the likes of a Loretta Devine or a. Oh, my God. You just name it, goes in there and sings. That's not me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Hmm.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

They come out and they say, ramona Brooks, Loretta Devine. I get my stuff, and I'm getting ready to book Sheryl Lee Route.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I was like, oh, my God. Now sit down. And then the drama's there. Now this is, like, everlasting drama. They say, if I call your name Today's your day. If I don't. Thank you very much.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Who's this person?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you very much.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you very much.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

After you've sung your heart out and wait it all dog on day Anyway, I stay. And at the end, I said to Tom, I. And I said, tom, why me? He says, well, I have the one that sings like this. I have the one that sings like this, right? And then there's you who sings like this so just the way I wrote it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow. Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And that's what that process was like.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Quinta Brunson]

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[Unknown Interviewer]

When did it click for people? When did you realize, okay, finally people are getting it now. What was the problem?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I don't know if I ever saw that until we got that next piece of money that took us on the road and we got to New Haven. But anybody in rehearsal that heard Jennifer Holiday sing, how could you not know that you were listening to something that was just unearth, like this was just something very special. And you can still hear people sing. And I'm telling you, to this day, it'll never be what it was like to hear the gut wrenching emotion of a human being that says, you're gonna love me. Ye. You know, you see some things from artists and you think, whoa.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So did you feel that all the work and process and preparation and traveling, did you feel validated by that nomination?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I felt so validated. But I also learned so many different things about awards. What people don't understand about awards and placement is they put you in different places. Right?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So they said, okay, Jennifer is going to be in lead actress. Okay, they said, you should be in lead actress. But if you're in supporting actress, you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Have a better shot.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

You have a better shot. But they wanted somebody else to get that shot. But it didn't happen.

[Unknown Interviewer]

For supporting.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

For supporting. So they put both of us in lead, knowing exactly what they thought was gonna happen. Except the other one didn't happen. But guess what? It doesn't matter. I will forever be a Tony nominated actress.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And as of right now, having won the Emmy. People always say, tony winner, Emmy winner.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're like, look, I don't have to correct you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I don't need to correct you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I don't need to correct you on that one. Thank you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Not at all. Not at all. Cause the show did win. Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on. Well, not only did it win, it endured.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

It still does.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It endured.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And it's the kind of show that everybody wants to play now. We know that it is about the dreams of three young black women.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And very often when people do the show, they get it all wrong. Cause they don't understand the trajectory of these women. Why are the girls, three, obviously black girls in the beginning? Because it's harder for those girls to break the barrier.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

They have to be twice as good in order to make it. It is not until the second act that you add the light skinned girl. Because they've already crossed over. So now they're acceptable.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Correct.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

But people always miss that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Is it frustrating when you originate something and have to watch it be interpreted by different people?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

How do you make peace with it? Because in a way, it's like you started it. You began this journey and you're happy that people are still excited by it and that people still want to see it and that these characters have endured.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Is it sort of this double consciousness?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

It's a dual consciousness. Yes. But also, you just wait until it's your turn to direct the show and show them what the show should be.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah. I receive it. I hear it.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

You just wait for those moments. Cause they will come.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes. Can we leap to you being on screen? Please? Can we do that? There's a movie I watched of yours last night that Etienne recommended.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I watch.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's called To Sleep with Anger. I was really riveted. It's saying so much about our families and who we welcome into our homes and traditions. And I think there's a very interesting thing in that film. You play a working mom, you play a wife. It feels very present in your character. But what's happening is they're trying to bring her back to the past and have her be relegated to a certain position in the kitchen, serving the men of the family. I wanted to ask you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

That's an important scene, too.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Because I had to fight for that scene. It was running late. It was the last day, and they had not shot the scene.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Hmm.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And this is when I learned to speak up. And they were not going to shoot the scene. And I was about to cry. And I didn't cry. I picked up my things. Because, you know when you're on location on a Small, small film. Sometimes you're walking.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Picked up my stuff and I walked and I left the set, went straight to my trailer. Okay. My little space. And I got. Put my clothes on, and I was getting in my car, and they said, where are you going? Danny Glover came down. He said, where are you going? Said, I'm going home. He said, you're going home? Said, I'm going home. If you don't shoot this scene. What have I been here for? This scene is important. Absolutely, it's important. And he said, okay. Okay. Then Charles Burnett comes down as the director. Great director. And Charles says. And he looks at Danny and he says, we gotta shoot the scene.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

They shoot everything else. They now have 30 minutes. 30 minutes, wow. To shoot the scene, Charles says, don't worry, you've got this. And he puts all the guys on one side, puts the camera on the other side. So all he does is he pans and just follows me. And when you get to the end, I've dropped the bowl. And when I looked at it, I was like, oh, my God. I knew it was an important scene. I saw it differently. But just in that within 30 minutes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It'S a film with a very dark tone. And I'm curious what your relationship was like with Charles in terms of finding that character and working with him.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

There's something so wonderful when a director likes you, when a director respects your art. Charles Burnett wanted me in that role. He wanted me to be and look.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Exactly the way I look, you know, Very important. It's once again always fighting that thing about shade. You know, I remember something that the comment was made, well, if she was Halle Berry's shade. And I was like, that's a beautiful shade, but that's not my shade. There's nothing wrong with my shade.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

You know, so when people talk about, you know, do I see change in the industry? Hell, yeah, I see change in the industry. I see it every day.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's a part of why we have these conversations, to give people things to go and look at and see the real breadth of your journey and the range and the work that you're showing.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Sometimes people look at you and think that's all you are. Instead of letting you show what you can do.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Can we talk about Sister Act 2?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Here's the thing. Sister Act 2 is also a miracle, okay? Because sequels usually aren't great.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

That's right. They're never better than the first one.

[Unknown Interviewer]

They're not. And here's the deal. Sister act is a miracle. That. That movie. I remember seeing that. I was very blessed to see that movie in the movie theater. Okay. And I think we all left thinking, what did I just watch? Because whatever it was, it was good. Yes, okay. And then, you know, you hear about the sequel, and there's a. Of a nervousness, There's a wondering, is it gonna be any. Are we going back to get a second bite at this apple? But when you watch it, it is so grounded in a way. And also, you're playing the mother to, you know, probably someone could argue, one of the greatest voices you know of a generation, Lauryn Hill.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Let me tell you something.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Please.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

That scene at the piano when they're singing, His Eye is on the Sparrow.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Right before that scene, before they shot that scene, I walk in and the two of them are there just singing so beautifully.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I'm listening. And then Lauren says to me, she says, miss Ralph, you know, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be a star. And.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on, Ms. Ralph, I love it.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

She's a baby. She's 16.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I see.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And she says to me, I'm gonna be a star. I'm gonna make it. And I'm gonna. The name of the band is Fugees. The Fugees. And I said to her, sweetheart, you are definitely gonna be a star. You are gonna make it. But I don't know about that. Fugees.

[Unknown Interviewer]

A little method acting happening there. I don't know if the Fugees are gonna pay your bills, but you're great.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

But you're great.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're fantastic. What did you think when you read the script? How did it come to you? And were you apprehensive about it?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

No, because once again, the director, Bill Duke, wanted me. I was really worried because I had just had Etienne. Cause Etienne was very young, and, you know, you always think that I've just had a baby. What am I gonna look like? How am I gonna handle it? How am I gonna do all of these things at one time? And we were able to make it happen. And he would come to set with me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And also, I'm curious to know what you did to bond with Lauren to make sure you two had such a real honest and grounded chemistry. Because you do.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

She and I just bonded. She was. You know, she. At that time, she was very close to her mom. Her mom was there on set. I would watch their dynamic. All I had to do was interact with her. It was just a good thing. All I had to do was think about my Mother. My mother wasn't a villain. But when I told my mother that I was going to study acting, that I wasn't going to be a doctor or a lawyer. You're going to be an actress. Lord have mercy. You're going to use our hard earned money. You're going to stay around those fake and phony people? No. Lord God Jesus, no.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

When my mother did not want to come to the Tony Awards, when I got nominated and had to sit behind my father and I. But when she heard my name called from the stage as a nominee, the one Sherry Lee Ralph. That's my daughter right there. That's my daughter. You know, I.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So you had a floor that's in your life.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Exactly.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I understood that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow. Because it's such a beautiful moment when you're not delivering lines, though, when you come and sit down and watching it again, I realized how powerful that scene was. Cause I think I was waiting for the famous lines. And I was, you know, almost waiting for. For that scene at the very end when you two talk and you hug. But that scene when she comes and sits down and is sort of humbled by her daughter's gift, I was really blown away by your performance in that moment. And I just feel like you leap off the screen every time. And that's the moment I think is also put into our memory is this redeeming moment where she says, maybe I'm wrong. Such a beautiful performance.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Thank you. Thank you for that.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

My mother was wrong. And she was so happy when we redid her house.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm ready to move to something I'm really excited to talk to you about. Can we talk about Moesha?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Oh.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean, come on. I went and I watched the pilot.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And I remember watching that in real time as a young black girl. It was a big deal. The next day at school, everybody was talking about it. Dee is a stepmother.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Right.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And there's an immediate rivalry between Dee and Moesha. Clearly. And we see the dynamic between you and her dad as well. You two trying to figure out, okay, how do we do this? How do we figure this out? And there's a great scene between you and her father and another great scene between you and Moesha. What did you do to prepare for that character?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

For me, that, once again, that was another great experience. I remember getting a phone call from.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Ralph Farquhar, who I love dearly.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Ralph Farquhar has done an amazing job of putting a lot of very talented young black and a few brown folks on.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

In the industry.

[Unknown Interviewer]

We love him.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

He was able to open a door, and he didn't close it for himself. He left it open to bring others in with him.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

But he called me and he said, I got your next job.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Ooh.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I was like, okay. He says, you got to meet this kid. And I said, okay. And they set up a meeting to do a chemistry meeting between you and Brandy. Brandy and I.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Another vocalist. Come on. Yeah, Come on. The Bible.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

She was about 14 years old, sitting up in my room.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And that was that. You know, I remember what it was like to be young and people dislike you because you wanted to wear braids. And here now I'm doing this show with this young woman with her braids, loving her family, missing her mother, and trying to grow up. And I said, the only thing I can do as this character, Dee, is love this child. Yeah, that was it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Such a great line. When you say, you know, your dad loves you, your brother loves you, and.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I love you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I love you too. And I'm also curious how it felt to be in front of a live audience, finding that character with Brandi, with the rest of the cast. But also, multicam is a very different schedule.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

People don't understand that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You go in, you rehearse, you do it. It's like a play.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Exactly.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And so were you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And then you gotta wait the way it's shot, you know, the. Those four cameras on a line. And you can't just give your line and then move on. Which is the interesting thing, because when you're on stage, you give your line. It's like throwing a ball. They catch it, they throw it back. Throw the ball back, you catch it. When you're doing four camera sitcom, you throw the line, you wait for that camera to catch you. And before you carry on to get that next line from the other person, for them to get that line from the other person. That was an interesting transition for me from four camera acting to what we're doing now with Abbott, which is much more like a play because those cameras are everywhere now. When we started doing Abbott, it came to a moment where they. Where Randall Einhorn, our director, executive producer, he said, you can do everything. So now do nothing. Just do nothing.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow. And I was like, that's hard.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I was like, I'm an award winning actress. You want me to do nothing? You know, I carry that with me all the time now. I carry that with me. Just not. I won't say take it down. Just let it be.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Because you got it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

You can do this.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Now just let it be.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's so interesting, because now I'm thinking back on, obviously, I've been watching you a lot. Obviously, these past just been in preparation for this. And I see how you're able to adapt, obviously, from film to multicam to single camera work as well. And that's what I'm really noticing, is that you fit into all of these different places. I'm curious to know, what would you say is something you have to know about acting on stage? What's one thing that you feel like you had and you knew that made it so you were able to survive being on stage?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I wanted to win.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You wanted to win?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I wanted to win.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Is that what you're taking with you every single time you stage?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Every single time? I want to make it. I want to be here. I want to be something that. Like you and me sitting here. The kid who watched me on tv, who's now sitting here talking with me as a woman about my journey. I wanted you to see that anything was possible for you. Because I've been through the fire. I see this little light here. I've been through that fire. And I've made a road. I made a way. But I only took up a journey that was being built before for me. I was. I'm literally just carrying on on the road, you know? And it's like, when I see you, I see Isa, I see Quinta. I'm like, look at my daughters.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yes.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Look at my kids.

[Unknown Interviewer]

We're your children.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yes. Look at them. I'm a good mother, baby.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You are. Mother is mothering.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Okay.

[Unknown Interviewer]

What would you say you need as a film actress? I'm curious, because we've seen you in film, and we've seen you be very grounded and very real, but also very specific. What are you thinking about? Is it still that winning mentality when you step onto the set of a film?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

First of all, you gotta be prepared.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

The number of people that come to a set not prepared. And sometimes they're not prepared because nobody prepared them. You know, sometimes people just put people out there because of something, and it's like, can you let them know what it is, is required or is expected of them? Can you help them? And then sometimes, I've learned now, you don't need to help everybody.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's right.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Because not everybody wants your help. So I always want to say to people, I'm not antisocial. I just can't be about that drama.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's right.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I just can't. So I just I stay by myself.

[Unknown Interviewer]

That's why you look so young. Thank you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

But another thing that I would say about acting is don't act.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Right?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Don't act.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Learn your lines. Understand the character. Now be. Yeah, just go ahead and be. And when you do that, you can be anything.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Speaking of being, there was a window of time between Moesha before Abbott happened, that you were working steadily and we were seeing you, you were always, ever present. In between that time, I was curious, how did you continue to hone your craft while maintaining your innate confidence during those windows of time? When, say, you're not going to a.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Show every single day, you know, there's a song in a chorus line where the character says, she's a dancer. And she says, God, I'm a dancer. A dancer dances. I'm like, God, I'm an actress. An actress acts. And if they're not choosing me, then I choose me. I'm not stopping. And I wrote a one woman show during that time. You know, it was difficult. You know, you got two, you're divorced, you got two kids that you got to put into school, amazing kids. And you've got to try and make sure that their life is. You know, sometimes you get divorced and your life drops off things, everything's changed. You lose, you know, you lose your relationship, you can lose your house. I've seen people lose everything out of a divorce. And I'm trying to hold it together and, you know, it's getting scarce and I'm afraid. And I said, I've got to act. So I write this one woman show and it's called Sometimes I Cry. Whew. And I was crying, baby, Woo. I was in a space.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I started writing these real women stories around HIV and aids. Real women that I knew. So I would start telling their stories on stage and I would become all these different characters. People started hearing about it. I was being booked on college campuses across the country and I was surviving. But you know what I was really doing? I was keeping myself working as an actress. I was keeping my family together. I was keeping my children feeling safe as they could be. That's what you do when they don't choose you. You choose you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on. That's the bar we needed. That's why we have these conversations.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Because our mission is to make sure people understand not just the personality, but your process. And it's clear that your process is to continue being in the work. And I think that shows up so much in your work.

[Unknown Advertiser]

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[Quinta Brunson]

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[Unknown Interviewer]

Now, we come to a very happy place now, which is an amazing school with amazing teachers called Abbott Elementary. Yes, Barbara, what was the first call? When did you get wind of it? And how did you feel after you read the pilot?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

You know, it was so interesting because so many things were happening all at the same time. I had done a series for CBS called Famous. And one day on the lot, my daughter is with me. And she's walking and she stops and she says, mommy, that's Quinta Brunson. And you have to meet her. Cause she's gonna be somebody.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on. Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I'm like, okay. So I meet Quinta Brunson. That's what happens.

[Unknown Interviewer]

How was that meeting?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

You just said, oh, it was great. You know, I'm saying, hello. And there she was. Was this tiny, wonderful little person, you know? And my daughter had seen her because she was an Internet sensation with these. There you go. I didn't know what Buzzfeed was.

[Unknown Interviewer]

We know it.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

She knew what it was. And she was so thrilled.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So that time passes. The two. There were two writers on the show, two Joes on Famous who go off to write another pilot. Now, I have heard about another pilot that is being done at abc. And I really want this show. So I pass on their pilot. Cause it's about some ghosts.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay? Okay.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

So I pass.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Ghosts do well sometimes. Go ahead.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I'm gonna connect the dots for you. So I pass on that pilot.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

After thinking. Thinking, thinking about it. Then I get number two in this ABC pilot.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Oh, my God. I'm thrilled. I want to do it. It's gonna be great. They have this scene where my husband has done me wrong. And the woman walks in and says something to me about my man. And somehow I end up jumping over the pews and it is all over the church floor. I said, I wanna have that. Sit. Anyway, Covid happens the day before. We're about ready to roll. So Covid dies down.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Guess what happens. The ghost series gets picked up, of course, on cbs.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I passed on it. And then our show is not gonna go forward. And I'm like, oh, my God. I've made all these poor choices. All these poor choices.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're doubting your instincts.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Doubting yourself.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Why are you doing that?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I'm in that Covid post. Covid space.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Doesn't even feel like you.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Doesn't even feel like me. Doggone it, no. So I'm in this space of what have I done? And I get a call from Quinta. Bronson.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on, let's go.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Who says Ms. Ralph.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Ms. Ralph.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

She don't call me that anymore.

[Unknown Interviewer]

She just calls me Charlotte.

[Quinta Brunson]

Fa.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Man.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Look, it happens. Okay? Okay.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

She says, Ms. Ralph, I know that you don't audition. I know you're used to people offering you things. That's your career now. I know this. But would you like, meet the team and blah, blah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I've been there before. Quinta. I know this conversation. I know this conversation. You're talking to a legend. You're like, look, please, please, come on. I need you. We're gonna make it happen.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

We're gonna make it happen. Yes. So I end up reading not once, but twice for her.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And it was the right thing to do because when I got that call, I was. I knew it was gonna be great. I knew it was gonna be wonderful. There was a moment during the pilot, Tyler and I looked at each other and I said, you feel it, don't you? Uh huh.

[Unknown Interviewer]

My guy.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you. I said, you feel it, don't you?

[Unknown Interviewer]

He knows.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And he said, you know, too.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Y'all both been on some shows that have worked.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And here we are.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Wow.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Going into our fourth season.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on. And it's a juggernaut. You won an Emmy for your performance. Rightfully so.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Another shocking moment.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Not shocking to anyone, but you took her.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yeah. Because I was truly shocked. I was speechless.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I mean. Well, you gave a great speech.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Okay. Emmy's speeches are important.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah. What I wanted to talk about was this undeniable chemistry that you have with Quinta. I think there's sort of our actual mothers that we have in our lives, and there are women that kind of feel like our second mothers or women that we kind of wish could have been our mother. On Abbott. I'm watching Mom. And Taraji's character is the mother Jeanine has, and Barbara's the mother that Jeanine needs. How much conversation are you guys having about what these two characters need from each other and what you guys can do to continue to keep it fresh? Funny. And it's always heartwarming, too.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

We don't talk much about it. We don't talk much about it. It's truly one of those experiences that is on the page. The script comes. It is there. And then when we interact with each other, something else happens, and it's always a good something else for me. When I look back at certain things, when I look back at the relationship I have had as an actress and as a human being with a young Brandi in The formative years.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Lauryn Hill and now Quinta.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I look at a Lauryn Hill in the formative years. When I look at Quinta in the formative years, I think I'm the right woman to be in the right place with these women and the characters that they play. And it has been amazing for me because I get to do what I do. Not only do I act, but I do get to mother. I do get to be the person that you look at and say, okay, I get that. And all of us, we had our moments, all of us, where you bump heads and you're like, wait a minute. All of that. But it's never. It's never a bad thing, but it's always out of love and respect and growth.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's so real. I think Etienne said something really great. He said a lot of great things yesterday, and we were talking, and he said, I think she's so good at playing a mom on screen because she does it so beautifully in real life. And it's true. Last question. What would you say is the definition of a really good actress?

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Oh, my God. First of all, you've got to know yourself. You got to know who you are. You have to like yourself. Somewhere inside of all of it, you got to like yourself. You have to pay attention. Because I feel my ability to do different characters is I pay attention to people. I like people.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah, clearly.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

I watch them. You'll see yourself in a character I play.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Come on.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Because I pay attention. I'll never forget one time I was so sad, so hurt. I didn't think it was happening the way I thought it would happen. And Rosalind Cash. I met Rosalynn when I was 16 years old in Jamaica, and she came for Film festival. She said to me in talking, what do you want to be? I said, I want to be a great actress. And years later, it wasn't happening. I thought. And she said, what did you tell me you wanted to be? And I said, I want to be a great actress. She said, and that's exactly what you are. So this star thing, this celebrity thing, that's something else. But great actress, you're on your way. So don't get confused about all of those things. Really pay attention to your craft. Because a great actress, you just don't roll out of bed and become a Viola Davis. You just don't roll out of bed and become an Angela Bassett. You just don't roll out of bed and become a Halle Berry. You just don't roll out of bed and become a you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Look, I'LL wait for you to say your own name. Okay. Because you do not roll out of bed and just become Ms. Cheryl Lee Ralph.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

Thank you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And every quality you describe, you have that and so much more. Thank you. And you did accomplish that dream of being a really phenomenal actress. You've been mothering all of us for so long, and we're so grateful for it.

[Cheryl Lee Ralph]

And I love my children, all of them.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You love us unconditionally. Thank you. Thank you for this. Thank you for talking to me.