← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
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- [00:01]
Reshma Sajani
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- [01:39]
Priscilla Smith
Midlife is a clusterfuck if I'm going to be really honest. At 51 years old, I'm starting to navigate the ebbs and flows of the unknown. What it looks like for me now is kissing my husband of 25 years good night at about 8:00 at night, heading into my separate bedroom where I need to have the AC set at 61 degrees due to my hot flashes. It's not knowing what Priscilla is going.
- [02:04]
Reshma Sajani
To show up today.
- [02:05]
Priscilla Smith
It is being seen as an expert in your field because you've worked so hard in your career and raising these amazing human beings that are out doing what they want to do, but at the same time finding peace in being alone and knowing that everything is kind of kind of be okay.
- [02:27]
Reshma Sajani
Welcome to my so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. Okay, I'm what they call a high achieving woman. But what woman isn't? What it looks like for me is. I'm the founder of two nonprofits, Girls who Coded Moms First. I got a great guy, two incredible kids, a cute dog. I've written bestselling books. But. And yes, there is a but. I wake up Every day wondering, is this it? This is something my girlfriends and I talk about all the time. Enduring the midlife. The kids, the deadlines, the waistlines, the schedules, the aging pairs, and the husbands. I feel like all of us midlifers are either dead inside because there's no room for our thoughts or feelings, or we're pressing the nuclear button. We're just blowing shit up because we want to escape it.
- [03:25]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I mean, you've read All Fours, right?
- [03:27]
Reshma Sajani
Where's my hotel room? For me, midlife hit me like a ton of bricks. I turned 42, my soul dog died. My hormones went wild. There was no third baby. My body was changing, and nobody was buying me drinks at the bar. Meanwhile, my husband and I are fighting over who's taking out the trash. And it's me. It's always me. I found myself mourning this whole era of my life that I had totally taken for granted. So, look, this podcast is my attempt at turning it all around. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna figure this out together. Week over week, I'm collecting tips and tricks to make us not just get through this part of our life, but actually live it. From how I love my body to how I find out what I really want in life. Because I'm determined to make midlife the best fucking time of my life. So for today's very first episode, I'm going to the source. We're going to talk to a woman who's done exactly what we're looking to do. Take midlife by the reins. Julia Louis Dreyfus. Let me tell you all during her midlife, she experienced some shit loss. Cancer. And she still says it was the best time of her life. Not to mention that's also when she crushed her career in Veep. And this year, get this, she's in the Marvel universe in a bodysuit, for fuck's sake. At 63, Julia sets a different tone for midlife. One of possibility, of thriving, of joy. Plus, she's just the Yoda of aging. For the last year, in some change, she's been talking to women over 70 on her award winning podcast, Wiser Than Me. Women like Jane Goodall and Amy Tan are telling her what it feels like to have lived 70, 80, 90 years of life. And you know what? They're all so calm, relaxed, and just fucking happy. So today, I'm going to figure out how we get to that centered, easy place sooner and how to get the most out of our midlives.
- [05:37]
Unnamed Speaker
Hello.
- [05:38]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Hi, Julia. Nice to meet you.
- [05:40]
Unnamed Speaker
Hi. Nice to meet you too.
- [05:42]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
This is gonna be fun. I'm so fucking excited. Let's do it.
- [05:45]
Unnamed Speaker
Let's do it.
- [05:46]
Reshma Sajani
All right, so I wanna talk about getting to know your body again. I know. Super fun way to start. But truthfully, midlife is like a second adolescence. I want to show you your iconic 2014 Rolling Stone cover.
- [05:59]
Unnamed Speaker
Okay.
- [06:00]
Reshma Sajani
I'm going to describe it for people. You're 53.
- [06:03]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [06:03]
Reshma Sajani
You're not wearing any clothes.
- [06:05]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [06:06]
Reshma Sajani
We see your back tatted up with the constitution. Your hair's down. It's flowy. You're looking over your shoulder. I mean, it's just incredible.
- [06:14]
Unnamed Speaker
Wow. Thank you.
- [06:15]
Reshma Sajani
You're exuding a confidence that I don't feel right now. Were you nervous?
- [06:21]
Unnamed Speaker
Very. I. It's funny, because Mark Seliger, the wonderful, extraordinary photographer Mark Seliger, with whom I've worked a number of times, as a matter of fact, took this, and there have been more than one occasions that I'm in a photo studio with him, and the next thing you know, I'm taking my clothes off. And that is not, by the way, who I am personally. I'm just not. And I also didn't realize that so much of my ass was gonna be in this. But anyway, I trusted him to do me. Okay. And it was. I mean, I liked the concept.
- [06:57]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Was this your idea for the COVID or did someone have to convince you to do it?
- [07:01]
Unnamed Speaker
I want to say it was my idea. I think I was. We were trying to come up with concept, I think. I think it was my idea. Mark Seliger would have to confirm that anyway, so it was either his or mine. But we conferred prior to this because we had to get somebody to do this pretend tattoo on my back, which took a lot of time to get that right, by the way.
- [07:25]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I can't imagine. And I feel like this cover just shifted the conversation about aging and sexiness because you are undeniably hot.
- [07:35]
Unnamed Speaker
Oh, God. Thank you so much. I'm not sure it really shifted the conversation. Do you really think that? I'm not sure.
- [07:40]
Reshma Sajani
I do think it shifted the conversation. I think it started a trend of older women accepting their bodies, feeling more comfortable, feeling sexy in their middle age. Did they have to convince you to do this cover, or were you just game?
- [07:54]
Unnamed Speaker
You know, if there's a really good concept for a photo shoot, often there is not. Often there is no concept or there is an incredibly shitty concept, that's when I lose my mind. That's when I am very anxious. But if there's a solid idea And I think this was a solid idea. I'm game. And that's how I felt that day. I was game.
- [08:14]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
You're game.
- [08:15]
Reshma Sajani
So that kind of brings me to. To the last fuckable day.
- [08:19]
Unnamed Speaker
Uh huh.
- [08:19]
Reshma Sajani
So this is a sketch, right, that.
- [08:21]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Airs in 2015, one year after this cover. Is it someone's birthday or.
- [08:26]
Unnamed Speaker
Oh, kind of the opposite. We're celebrating Julia's last fuckable day.
- [08:30]
Reshma Sajani
Yes.
- [08:31]
Unnamed Speaker
Salud. What is that? In every actress's life, the media decides when you finally reach the point where you're not believably fuckable anymore. Boo.
- [08:43]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, I mean, how do you know?
- [08:44]
Reshma Sajani
You're in your early 50s and this skit is like one year after the Rolling Stone cover. And listen, I'm almost there. And I'm often thinking, like, I'm just not as sexy or fuckable as I once was. Was this the kind of stuff that was on your mind?
- [08:58]
Unnamed Speaker
Actually, it wasn't on my mind. It was. This was all Amy Schumer's idea. Amy Schumer wrote the sketch and Nicole Holof center, who's an incredible film director and writer with whom I've worked a number of times now, was directing this particular sketch. And she called me and she said, would you do it? And I said, it sounded hilarious. Absolutely. But what was so weird was that halfway through I started to think, wait, what's going on here? Are we making fun of this? Because it's true. And I had this sort of weird crisis of confidence, like, am I not relevant anymore? That's really what it was. It wasn't so much fuckability. Although fuckability, unfortunately is very much linked to relevancy for women. So all of a sudden I did have this weird sort of out of body experience of sort of having a weird lack of confidence. But, you know, other. But we got through. I got through it.
- [10:06]
Reshma Sajani
I mean, is this the first time you felt a lack of confidence?
- [10:09]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it was weird. I'd never felt that before. I still don't feel that way. I don't. I feel relevant and, you know, ready for action Jackson. I mean, and I don't mean. I'm not talking about it, I don't mean it like sexually. I just mean as a human being. I've got a lot more to do and I've got a lot more to say and I want to be a part of a lot more. And I feel that very profoundly as you're going.
- [10:42]
Reshma Sajani
But I still, like I told you.
- [10:43]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Right, Struggle with the changes that are happening in my body and physically and Also because the aspiration or the definition of beauty is someone who's 20 years younger. No matter how good you look, did you feel like in your midlife you were still chasing youth?
- [11:01]
Unnamed Speaker
I don't know if I would call it chasing youth so much as I would call it vanity. I think there's a difference there, you know, like, I mean, I put makeup on to talk to you today. That's a vanity thing. You know, it's funny. I was recently. I saw. I don't know if this is true, by the way. It probably isn't. I saw it on Instagram, so it's probably totally false, but there was some study out there saying, like, at 44 and at 60. Did you see this? That there's. There's, like, a shift.
- [11:32]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah, yeah. 44 and 60 are the two moments where everything goes off the rails.
- [11:37]
Unnamed Speaker
Physically, there's a big shift. Aging. Yeah, maybe that's true. I. I'm not here. I'm not positing that as a fact, but I saw that, and I thought, oh, isn't that interesting, huh? I kind of see it. I mean, having. Having had a really serious illness. Bring it. Let's go. I'm so happy to be living. I'm here with it. I also say this. I have a mom who's really vibrant. She's 90, and she's very beautiful. But she looks 90. She looks like great. 90. Okay. And occasionally, I'll look at something on my body, say, oh, my God, that looks just like Mommy's arm, you know, Or. Oh, wow, that is. That is wild. That does not look like how I think my leg, you know, whatever it is.
- [12:27]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, your legs or your hand looks like.
- [12:29]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But then. But I have a kind of pride in that because I really admire my mother, and in so many ways, I want to be just like her. And that's always been the case. So I think kind of that's helpful to me for understanding these changes.
- [12:50]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. I also feel like you're a little like me. Like I like to call bullshit. And as I've been doing this project, I'm like, oh, my God, we're being conned. Like, why is it only for women that the mirror works in reverse? But for men, the older you get, you're George Clooney.
- [13:07]
Reshma Sajani
You're hot.
- [13:08]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
You know, salt and pepper. Amazing, right? It's the same exact physical things happen, right? The wrinkles on your hand or your legs or your face on a man are seen and described as being sexy, appealing. But for us, it's different. And who decided that? And as I've been nerding out about this, just historically, I mean, this has been going on since the 1900s.
- [13:32]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. And the social media of it all is a nightmare. And it's a nightmare for young women in particular. That's a bear to push back against. So it's weird because to a certain extent I think it's better than ever for women. And then to another, and then in the same breath, I'll say it's worse.
- [13:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, it's.
- [13:54]
Unnamed Speaker
It's both.
- [14:08]
Reshma Sajani
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- [17:09]
Unnamed Speaker
That women are retiring because they go through menopause. Yeah.
- [17:12]
Reshma Sajani
Isn't that wild? It's like they feel like shit. They can't function, and so they can't work.
- [17:18]
Unnamed Speaker
Oh, interesting. Oh, that's such a mistake.
- [17:21]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. You know, I think that for a lot of women, for my friends, I'll say, like, midlife feels so scary and unfulfilling because you're just kind of in the middle of things, and you often wonder, like, is this it? Or do I have the energy to chase that project, chase that dream run for office, whatever that might be. Seinfeld ended when you were 38, which I think is a perfect example of this. This is a revolutionary mega hit.
- [17:50]
Reshma Sajani
Right.
- [17:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Made you a household name, and now you're staring down your 40s and you got two kids, a marriage. At that moment, are you worried about what's coming next? Like, in hindsight, your career then soars, Right? Christine Veep. But at that time, you didn't know what was around the bend. Can you talk to me a little bit about this time and any advice that you have, you know, to get through the moments of not knowing, especially when you're in the middle of your life and it's harder to have that same amount of hope because you just got less time.
- [18:30]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, I can. I don't know if this. I mean, for myself, here's the thing about show business, which is different from other careers. It's a gamble, and there's a lot of unknown. And that part of being an actor I kind of love. I don't know why. I mean, I'm not a gambler in life. I don't like. Actually, I hate gambling. But you don't know. What's coming around the bend to me, is exciting. When I ended, when we finished Seinfeld and my kids were five and one, I guess thereabouts, I was desperate to be at home. I had been Working really, really long hours and full time and wrestled with a lot of anxiety about that while having two children. And so to have an opportunity to just be home was something. I was really laser focused.
- [19:35]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [19:36]
Unnamed Speaker
But at the same time, I knew I wasn't done. It wasn't like I thought, okay, now I'm gonna, you know, hang up my skates and I'm finished. I just knew I needed a pause.
- [19:47]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And you wanted that pause.
- [19:49]
Unnamed Speaker
And I took the pause. Not for super long, frankly, but I took it for a couple years before I jumped back in.
- [19:57]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
I wanna get back to what you just said. Cause I find it really fascinating, interesting, and I relate to it. The sense of that, like, the uncertainty is actually exciting. Like, the unknown is what keeps you alive. It makes you feel more alive. How do you do. How can you feel that way when you're, like, not an actor? Not waiting about your next potential gig? Like, what is that about?
- [20:26]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, I just think it's. I think it has to do with the happiness I find in the work that I do. And not everyone can find joy in their work, and I recognize that. But if it's possible to do, it must be. If it's possible to do, it should be embraced. Because at the end of the day, what the fuck else is there?
- [20:46]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Right?
- [20:47]
Unnamed Speaker
And so I think that's really what I'm talking about, is try to have a good time with the time you've got, baby. I mean, that's it.
- [20:57]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [20:58]
Unnamed Speaker
You know, I know attorneys who love the work they do and embrace it. I mean, for real. You know, one of my dearest friends is a First Amendment attorney. And she just loves it and is great at it and is still powering up in that game, you know, powering in being a powerful force in that game. And I don't know, I think there's something about trying to find the joy if it's possible, if you're lucky enough.
- [21:25]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Right. Sometimes it also helps too, when you have someone who's like your cheerleader. So, like, for me, that's like my husband. Right. He believes in me more than I believe in myself. And that's good. Right. I feel like you have that too, with Brad.
- [21:37]
Reshma Sajani
Who were those people for you?
- [21:39]
Unnamed Speaker
My husband, for sure. Without question. That's it. And of course, it's not like other people haven't been supportive in my life. They have been. But I rely on his judgment and his take on things. Completely and totally.
- [22:01]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [22:01]
Reshma Sajani
All right.
- [22:02]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So finding your joy and finding your people. I have listened to all of your episodes of Wiser than me.
- [22:09]
Unnamed Speaker
Okay.
- [22:10]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And I literally, through my headphones, can feel, like, your awe about the boldness of, like, the women you interviewed. And I wanted to ask you, like, are you ready to be done with midlife? So you can just get there? Are you ready for that third act?
- [22:25]
Unnamed Speaker
No, I'm not. I feel, you know, the trope is true, that life goes by much faster. So, yeah, I'd like to slow things down. Not because I'm afraid of being older, but because I want to enjoy life for as long as possible, if that makes sense.
- [22:48]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. So many of the women you interviewed, right, at their youngest, they're 70 and they're on the other side of being middle age, and they've really, like, figured their shit out. And I want to be there and I don't want to wait till I'm 70 to get there. And what was so interesting is that one of the things they did have in common, right, that so many of them said that their favorite decade was in their 50s.
- [23:12]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [23:13]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And they say stuff like, slow down. But they keep saying 50s was their best. And you have also said that 50s was your favorite decade.
- [23:22]
Unnamed Speaker
Yes.
- [23:22]
Reshma Sajani
What was it about your 50s that.
- [23:25]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Resonated so powerfully for you?
- [23:27]
Unnamed Speaker
I think I was just incredibly comfortable in my own skin. I felt very confident. And by the way, I understand something, I had breast cancer in my 50s and I had to walk through that shit show, which was really difficult. And yet I. I still say my 50s were pretty great. By the way, I'm in my early 60s now and not so bad. Although I will say one thing that's hard about being in this decade is that you start to lose people that you're close to and there are health issues that come up for those that are dear to you. And so that's a new wrinkle that I hadn't sort of the parenting of parents and the taking care of loved ones in that sense, you know, I mean, God knows if you're lucky, you're in this position, but it's very difficult. But anyway, yes, back to your question. 50s, dynamite. And I also really liked the work I was doing in my 50s. I was really enjoying a lot and that that helped too. I was artistically very gratified.
- [24:42]
Reshma Sajani
I totally hear that. In some ways, I feel that, like, professionally there's still so much that I want to do, but I physically feel like shit.
- [24:50]
Unnamed Speaker
You do?
- [24:51]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, I physically feel like shit. I am exhausted. No, I'm in the sandwich generation. So I have a four year old, a nine year old, and like two geriatric 80 year old parents who need a lot.
- [25:03]
Reshma Sajani
So that could be a little bit of it.
- [25:04]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
But I do have this sense that like the best of my life is behind me. That had.
- [25:10]
Unnamed Speaker
Oh no, you're wrong, you're wrong. Do you feel, is that how you feel? I do. Oh, I hope you change your point of view.
- [25:19]
Reshma Sajani
I do.
- [25:19]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Maybe in two years I will. Cause I mean I'm feeling more hopeful about 50s.
- [25:23]
Reshma Sajani
But is it all rose colored glasses?
- [25:26]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Like when you're 75, you're like, yeah, 50 was like amazing.
- [25:30]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, I don't know, I mean it varies from person to person, but I mean, I know it's hard to have young kids and stuff, but I mean it is hard to have young kids. I'm going to sound tropey, but you're going to see it's going to be over lickety split and you will be like, what the hell? You know, the days are long, the years fly by and you know, nine years from now you're going to be taking your nine year old to college. Now that's nuts, right? I mean it's hard to imagine that, but nine years is like soon.
- [26:09]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Part of it is like for a lot of the guests on your show, they say that that was also the time as they got older that they stopped being the good girl. Like they stopped living for other people. Like.
- [26:20]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [26:20]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And I still, I feel like at.
- [26:22]
Reshma Sajani
48, struggle with that.
- [26:23]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Like I canceled the dinner last night and I keep feeling guilty about, about it and that they have this sense when they let go of being these people pleasers and these good girls, that they have this moment of liberation.
- [26:37]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [26:38]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Did that moment happen for you?
- [26:40]
Unnamed Speaker
It's happening for me. And I totally empathize with the anxiety you're feeling about canceling the dinner last night. That's something that I wrestle with, that people pleasing thing too. But it's less for me now than it was. And so maybe that's just a matter of just more cancellations. You just have to cancel a few more times. You start to get comfortable with it, you know, it's okay.
- [27:07]
Reshma Sajani
Is there a tactic? Is there like what shifted?
- [27:09]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Was it just that like when you canceled, like your worst nightmare didn't come true?
- [27:13]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, the people that matter to me, number one, would certainly understand if I had to cancel for whatever the reason is. And if they don't understand, I've come to realize that that's certainly not my problem.
- [27:30]
Reshma Sajani
How did you learn how to set boundaries? For me? I used to Pride myself on inbox 0 okay. If people found me on LinkedIn and emailed me, I always replied back. And it just, it became exhausting and so I stopped doing it. And that was a boundary I set up for myself. Do you have something like that?
- [27:49]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, can I tell you something that I have over 15,000 unread emails.
- [27:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So you clearly have that.
- [27:57]
Unnamed Speaker
And every now and again I think, oh God, I should go through these. And then I'm like, and I start to. And I start to delete, delete, delete. And a lot of it's crap, you know, junk. But I can't. It's too much. So it's. I'm okay with it. Yeah, I feel like I'm hesitatingly okay with it.
- [28:16]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, I feel like the term I saw you use is dgaf don't give a fuck.
- [28:20]
Unnamed Speaker
I mean, I wouldn't say I'm not quite there, but let's just say I haven't made a move to clean all this stuff out. I could I guess just go through it and erase it all. Just. Just throw everything out. But then I worry about getting rid of stuff that I actually need. So I don't.
- [28:48]
Reshma Sajani
If you're anything like me, managing money hasn't always been easy. I remember the first time I thought about investing, I had no idea where to start. Maybe you've had that same experience, feeling like investing is only for people with a lot of cash or expertise. But here's the thing, it's not. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing for your future. You don't need a lot of money or expertise to invest with Acorns. In fact, you can get started with just your spare change. Acorns recommends an expert built portfolio that fits you and your money goals, then automatically invests your money for you. I've been trying Acorns myself and it's been a game changer. It takes the guesswork out of investing, which is perfect for someone like me who's always on the go. I love how I can invest just by rounding up my everyday purchases, like when I grab a coffee or order takeout, giving those small investments a chance to grow. Head to acorns.com midlife or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risks Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important disclosures@acorns.com midlife you know I love cooler months because I feel like it offers me so much more flexibility with my fashion and layering. And let me tell you, Quince has been a total game changer for my wardrobe. I've been living in their cashmere sweaters. Yes, cashmere, starting at $50. They're so soft and cozy. Plus I've got a few of their washable silk tops which are perfect for those days when you want to feel a little more polished without a lot of fuss. And the best part, Quince offers these beautiful, high quality pieces at prices that are 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They partner directly with top factories so there's no middleman, which means more savings for us. And I love that they're committed to ethical manufacturing practices too. I've worn my Quince pieces like my 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters just about everywhere from casual lunches to evening events. And they always hold up. Honestly, they feel just as luxurious as any high end brand I've tried, but without the crazy price tag. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials. Go to quince.commidlife for free shipping on your order and a 360 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com midlife to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinns.com midlife.
- [31:50]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So life in the middle is hard because you're really busy and it's hard to be present, hard to find time to enjoy the gifts that you had. One of the, one of the things I loved about your Sally Field interview is she talks about the importance of having these quiet moments. And she said, you know, lots of times people get stuck. Like they don't get over the trauma that happened to them when they were young. They don't get over the hangups that they had because they haven't had that moment to just sit, reflect and almost unlearn. Did you take it? Was that your takeaway too, from what she said?
- [32:23]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah, she talked, if I recall correctly, she talked about those kinds of burdens, like a sweater that you can't take off and you're boiling and you can't take it off. And I thought that was an incredible metaphor and absolutely true. And I'm a big believer in meditation. The quieting of the mind, I think is useful. I've done it. I don't do it the way I used to do it, but I do meditate with some frequency. And it's very useful for that quiet mind, which is good for the brain. And it's good for stress levels. And by the way, anything you can do for true deal with stress, like, really is a good idea because I am certain that it will hasten an end. It's not good. It's not good physically and obviously there's lots of medical information to support that. But anything you can do to reduce those cortisol levels is a good thing. And meditation falls into that category.
- [33:39]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
When did you start doing that?
- [33:41]
Unnamed Speaker
Oh, gosh, when? Mid-50s, I think.
- [33:48]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Did you. As you have gotten older, did your ambition wane or has it grown?
- [33:54]
Unnamed Speaker
I'd say it's become more laser focused. It's still, I still have ferocious ambition, but it is more directed. Does that make sense?
- [34:05]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. And how did that happen?
- [34:07]
Unnamed Speaker
I think I have a better understanding of what's worth my time. And that's really just from experience.
- [34:15]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. I mean, some people could say you, you reach such a pinnacle of success that like, what, What? More. Right?
- [34:23]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. But I don't, I don't consider myself that. I don't, I don't think of myself like that at all. I'm, I, I want to find my next job and I think of it like that, if that makes sense.
- [34:37]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Do you think you know what that is like? Some people be like, all right, the, the end all.
- [34:42]
Reshma Sajani
Be.
- [34:42]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
All of my life is being president of the United States or launching a podcast or writing a book. Is there like a thing?
- [34:49]
Unnamed Speaker
No. That's why I like what I do so much is that, you know, it's a multitude of things.
- [34:57]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. And that's, I think that's the power of finding something that you love because there's not like a destination, you know, at the end.
- [35:03]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. It's really the journey of finding the good script or project and really sinking your teeth into it. That's just thrilling.
- [35:15]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So you said that you started meditating in your 50s and in 2016 you lost your father. I'm sorry.
- [35:22]
Unnamed Speaker
Yep.
- [35:23]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
In 2017 you win the Emmy and the next day you're diagnosed with breast cancer.
- [35:30]
Unnamed Speaker
Uh huh.
- [35:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And that's all happening in your 50s, but you still say, right, that is your best time.
- [35:38]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [35:39]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
To me, like going through all those things. Right. Empty nest or losing someone you love having cancer. Right. That's like the definition for so many women in their midlife. It all happens at the same damn time.
- [35:57]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
And none of us are given any tools on how to handle this. So what do you take away from that time of your life that you can then? I guess gift to us.
- [36:12]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, I don't know. I Don't know if I have anything to gift except to say that I think these experiences of loss and trauma, strengths were born from those experiences. So, yes, it was horrible to lose my father and actually also my sister during that decade. And yet I have learned to live with the loss and I feel stronger for it. And same is true of having walked through this cancer diagnosis. And same is true with my kids leaving home. It's a new way of thinking about life. I have now young adult children. I adore it. It is so fun. Wait till you see for real. Mark my words. I'm not kidding. Wait. You are going to get such a kick out of having your boys be like in their 20s, you know, doing their thing, being these young adults with eye opening points of view, stuff like that. That's cool. And that's just surface stuff, you know?
- [37:30]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [37:31]
Unnamed Speaker
And the fact that I can still, you know, carry on and take care of myself even though my father is not on this planet, that makes me feel strong. So I think all of those things, as difficult as they were, I would have, I mean, I'd love to have skipped the cancer piece. That would have been really nice. But there you go. That's life. I think I'm stronger for it.
- [37:57]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
So talking with you, it's clear you don't share the same framing of midlife.
- [38:02]
Reshma Sajani
Right.
- [38:03]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
My mindset is, I'm dune.
- [38:05]
Reshma Sajani
It's all shit.
- [38:06]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Like, you know, nothing's getting better. Nothing's getting better. Right. So, like, how do I change my framing?
- [38:12]
Unnamed Speaker
I can tell you've changed it. I don't, I don't believe the framing that you're telling me. I believe that you have a very upbeat and positive sense. I mean, because you're exploring the possibilities of midlife in doing this podcast. And I think that's wise as hell. And you will not be convinced otherwise. You shouldn't be. It's a waste. It's a waste. It's a waste. Don't waste your time with it.
- [38:42]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah, that's what.
- [38:43]
Unnamed Speaker
Yeah. For real. Yeah.
- [38:44]
Reshma Sajani
It's like getting yourself out of these moments. So even if I wanted to take a risk or be bold, it feels impossible because midlife is chaotic.
- [38:53]
Unnamed Speaker
Right.
- [38:54]
Reshma Sajani
But for you, you know, shit just got better as you got older. I mean, you had obstacles and challenges, but it just, it didn't stop you.
- [39:03]
Unnamed Speaker
It's. Yeah, but I think it's a mindset. I think it's a mindset. You gotta go into it with open arms, this thing called life. And I think it's a. It's a, it's a completely different framing. The other is too much anxiety, too much worry. Fuck it. It's just, that's such a waste. And you know, a lot of the women that I have actually talked to on my Wiser Than Me podcast, I always ask if you could give your 21 year old self some advice, what would you say? And a huge portion of these women say, it's gonna be okay.
- [39:45]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Yeah. And it could not just be okay, it could be fucking great.
- [39:49]
Unnamed Speaker
Well, how about that idea?
- [39:50]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
How about that?
- [39:52]
Unnamed Speaker
Fuck about.
- [39:52]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Well, fuck it. That's my takeaway here, right? It's gonna be like, don't just live through it, live it, live it.
- [40:01]
Unnamed Speaker
It's going to be fab.
- [40:02]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
It's going to be fab. All right, well, you all heard it from Julia. It's going to be fab. Thank you so much.
- [40:10]
Unnamed Speaker
Thank you. What a pleasure to talk to.
- [40:25]
Reshma Sajani
Here are my main takeaways from Julia on how to really live my midlife. First, midlife's a mindset. I mean, you heard it from the source. You can control it. 2. Meditate. We gotta lower those cortisol levels. 3, find your people in your community. Because you know what? Life is long and we got a ways to go. I'm telling you, if we do it right, we're gonna age like fine wine. Julia Louis Dreyfus is an award winning actress and podcast host. You can find her podcast Wiser Than Me. Wherever you're listening to this, that's it for the show. See you next week. That story you heard at the top of this episode about how midlife is a clusterfuck, that was Priscilla Smith. I want to say thank you to her and the dozens of women who sent us voicemails about midlife. And you can talk to us too. Go to speakpipe.com there's more of my so called Midlife with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Midlife Advice that didn't make it into the show. Subscribe now. In Apple Podcasts I'm your host Rashmi Sajani. Our producer is Claire Jones. This series is sound designed by Ivan Karaev. Our theme was composed by Ivan Karaev and performed by Ryan Jewell, Ivan Koraev and Karen Waltok. Additional music by APM Music. Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lepore. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow my so Called Midlife wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Bye.
- [42:39]
Sarah Silverman
Why hello there. This is your pal Sarah Silverman. You know, the standup comic that's not afraid of a diarrhea joke. Oh my God, I'm so brave. I hope you're enjoying this podcast that you're listening to. I am just dropping in here to let you know about another podcast I think you'd like and it's called the Sarah Silverman Podcast. Each week listeners from all over the world call in and they ask me for advice or they talk about something going on in their life.
- [43:04]
Unnamed Speaker
Anything.
- [43:04]
Sarah Silverman
Their silliest, grossest, deepest, darkest situations. And then I respond whether I'm qual to or not. Go ahead. Search for the Sarah Silverman Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Bye. Hey friends, it's Meghan Trainor and her.
- [43:18]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Big bro Ryan Trainor and her husband Daryl Sabara.
- [43:21]
Sarah Silverman
Each week on our podcast Working on It. We share behind the scenes stories and bring you into our hilarious and heartfelt conversations. And sometimes with amazing guests, we tackle.
- [43:31]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Everything from navigating Hollywood to mental health to Megan becoming a mother, Daryl becoming a father, and so much more.
- [43:38]
Sarah Silverman
We'll get into the nitty gritty of our lives and leave no detail behind. Prepare to laugh, cry and hopefully learn something new.
- [43:45]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Listen to new episodes out every Wednesday. Wherever you get your podcasts.