Podcast Summary: "It’s Time to Try Empathetic Leadership with Jacinda Ardern"

Podcast Information:

• Title: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
• Host: Reshma Saujani (Founder of Lemonada Media)
• Episode: It’s Time to Try Empathetic Leadership with Jacinda Ardern
• Release Date: June 25, 2025
• Description: In this live episode recorded in Chicago, Reshma Saujani engages in a profound conversation with Jacinda Ardern, former Prime Minister of New Zealand. They delve into empathetic leadership, balancing personal life with public duties, overcoming imposter syndrome, and Jacinda's decision to step down at the peak of her career.

1. Introduction and Setting the Stage (00:00 – 03:47)

The episode begins with Reshma Saujani introducing the special live format recorded in Chicago, featuring Jacinda Ardern. Reshma highlights Jacinda’s tenure as New Zealand’s Prime Minister during crises such as the Christchurch mosque shootings and the COVID-19 pandemic. She emphasizes Jacinda’s leadership style rooted in empathy and kindness, setting the tone for a deep exploration of empathetic leadership.

2. Personal Background and Family Influence (03:57 – 07:30)

Key Topics:

• Jacinda's upbringing and family influence.
• The intentional sharing of personal stories in her memoir.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [04:52]: "People will kind of ask you, well, why? How did this happen to you? And they want to know whether or not you're raised in a political house, where your values came from, why you're motivated in that way."

Jacinda discusses how her family shaped her values and motivated her entry into politics. She also shares her deliberate choice to include personal anecdotes in her memoir to provide deeper insights into her formative years, challenging the notion that politics is solely about ambition.

3. Entry into Politics and Overcoming Early Doubts (07:30 – 10:22)

Key Topics:

• Jacinda’s initial reluctance and behind-the-scenes roles in politics.
• The cultural differences between New Zealand and typical political environments.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [08:15]: "I think that politics was a place you fix that. So I volunteered, I knocked on doors and then over time just found myself moving through the ranks until I ended up working in Parliament."

Jacinda explains her grassroots entry into politics driven by a desire to address fairness and inequality. She contrasts the approachable and methodical nature of New Zealand’s political system with the more aggressive and unpredictable environments elsewhere.

4. Imposter Syndrome and Confidence Gap (10:22 – 15:45)

Key Topics:

• The prevalence of imposter syndrome among women leaders.
• Jacinda’s perspective on imposter syndrome as a strength rather than a weakness.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [12:27]: "I often call it a confidence gap. I think, because I see it as a spectrum..."

Jacinda delves into how imposter syndrome affects her leadership, reframing it as a confidence gap that can be harnessed positively. She emphasizes preparation and seeking expertise as ways to counteract self-doubt, advocating for a leadership style that values humility and continuous learning.

5. Rising to Prime Minister and Leadership Challenges (15:45 – 21:53)

Key Topics:

• The unexpected path to leadership within the Labour Party.
• The emotional and strategic considerations in taking the helm as Prime Minister.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [19:00]: "If I don't think I have enough in the tank anymore, it is my responsibility."

Jacinda recounts the pivotal moment when she was encouraged by her then-leader to become the Prime Minister amidst declining poll numbers. She reflects on the weight of responsibility that ultimately drove her to accept the role, despite personal reservations and the immense pressure that followed.

6. Balancing Leadership and Motherhood (21:53 – 32:00)

Key Topics:

• The challenges of juggling the demands of being a national leader and a mother.
• The universal experience of parental guilt and striving for presence.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [31:45]: "They hand you that baby, and then they give you your allocation of guilt as you walk out the door."

Jacinda opens up about the persistent guilt and challenges faced by working mothers, even at the highest levels of leadership. She shares personal strategies for coping with the inevitable feelings of inadequacy, emphasizing the importance of self-compassion and setting examples for her children.

7. Navigating the COVID-19 Pandemic (32:00 – 41:12)

Key Topics:

• New Zealand’s strategic response to COVID-19 under Jacinda’s leadership.
• The balance between honesty, preparedness, and managing public fear.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [36:03]: "When people are fearful, you just share as much information as you can and you're honest when you don't have all of the answers."

Jacinda elaborates on the proactive and transparent approach New Zealand took during the pandemic. She highlights the importance of communicating uncertainty and maintaining public trust, which were pivotal in managing the crisis effectively despite the challenges of misinformation and public fatigue.

8. Handling Domestic Challenges and Public Perception (41:12 – 44:43)

Key Topics:

• The impact of misinformation and domestic protests on her leadership.
• Emotional responses to being misrepresented and facing threats.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [41:17]: "It made me desperately sad."

Jacinda shares her emotional struggles when confronted with violent protests and disinformation campaigns targeting her leadership. She emphasizes the personal toll of public misrepresentation, expressing sadness rather than anger, and underscores the resilience needed to navigate such turbulent times.

9. Decision to Resign and Lessons in Leadership (44:43 – 52:55)

Key Topics:

• The profound decision to step down as Prime Minister.
• The importance of recognizing personal limits and the responsibility to ensure effective leadership continuity.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [44:43]: "If I don't think I have enough in the tank anymore, it is my responsibility."

Jacinda discusses the deeply personal and challenging decision to resign, highlighting that leadership is not about enduring indefinitely but knowing when to pass the baton. She reflects on the isolation and pressure that come with such a decision, ultimately driven by a sense of duty to the nation and the well-being of her team.

10. Audience Q&A: Leadership Insights (52:55 – 57:04)

Key Topics:

• Evolution of leadership style through political experience.
• The role of kindness and empathy in effective leadership.
• Hope for future leadership models and policy changes to support women leaders.

Notable Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [45:25]: "Kindness is what I want us to be known for."

In the interactive segment, Jacinda articulates how her experiences have shaped a leadership style that prioritizes empathy, kindness, and collaboration. She advocates for policies that support parental choices and address the societal structures that often hinder women from pursuing both motherhood and leadership roles.

11. Concluding Remarks and Future Endeavors (57:04 – End)

Reshma and Jacinda wrap up the conversation by highlighting Jacinda’s upcoming documentary, "Prime Minister is Out," which aims to humanize politics and leadership. Jacinda acknowledges the integral support of her husband and the importance of showcasing that ordinary people can embody extraordinary leadership qualities.

Closing Quote:

Jacinda Ardern [54:33]: "I hope it shares a message that very normal people can and should be in politics."

Key Takeaways:

• Empathetic Leadership: Jacinda Ardern exemplifies that leadership rooted in empathy and kindness is not only possible but also effective.
• Overcoming Self-Doubt: Imposter syndrome can be transformed into a strength through preparation, humility, and seeking expertise.
• Work-Life Balance: Balancing high-level leadership with personal life, such as motherhood, is challenging but essential, requiring societal and policy support.
• Resilience in Crisis: Transparent communication and honesty during crises build public trust and facilitate effective management.
• Leadership Transition: Knowing when to step down is a crucial aspect of responsible leadership, ensuring continuity and fresh perspectives.

This episode serves as an inspiring guide for current and aspiring leaders, emphasizing that compassion and vulnerability are powerful tools in both personal and professional realms.