Listen Now: Choice Words with Samantha Bee (feat. Kathryn Hahn)

Summary

My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani: "Choice Words with Samantha Bee (feat. Kathryn Hahn)"

Release Date: January 1, 2025 | Hosted by Lemonada Media

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "My So-Called Midlife", host Reshma Saujani delves into the intricacies of navigating midlife challenges with her special guest, acclaimed comedian and television host Samantha Bee, alongside actress Kathryn Hahn. The conversation explores themes of personal choice, career transitions, the impact of menopause, and maintaining authenticity amidst societal expectations.

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Navigating Major Life Choices

Samantha Bee opens up about pivotal decisions that have shaped her career and personal life.

[15:56] Samantha Bee:
"When I was graduating from grad school... I had to decide between a low-paying job on tour and a promising opportunity in Los Angeles. It felt like a monumental choice that could steer my entire life in one direction or the other."

Discussing the burden of student loans and financial instability, Samantha highlights how financial pressures often influence significant life decisions.

[18:18] Samantha Bee:
"The student loans were a huge factor. I remember my last year of grad school—just trying to make ends meet was overwhelming."

Kathryn Hahn concurs, emphasizing the weight of financial obligations in decision-making processes.

[22:56] Kathryn Hahn:
"Paying off those debts felt like winning a marathon. It was a relief, but also a stark reminder of the sacrifices made to pursue one's passion."

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The Role of Intuition vs. Rational Decision-Making

The discussion shifts to the balance between gut feelings and logical analysis when making choices.

[10:07] Samantha Bee:
"Sometimes I just need to sleep on a decision. My mind races with pros and cons, but my gut tells me what I want."

[10:34] Kathryn Hahn:
"I relate to that. It's like trying on a decision—saying it out loud and then feeling uneasy about it hours later."

Both guests agree that intuition plays a crucial role but acknowledge the difficulty in trusting one's instincts entirely.

[10:05] Samantha Bee:
"If it's not an immediate yes, it warrants further investigation. But sometimes, you just have to take the leap."

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Embracing Midlife Changes and Menopause

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the physical and emotional transformations associated with midlife, particularly menopause.

[34:01] Kathryn Hahn:
"Menopause isn't just about hot flashes. It's a complex journey that affects every aspect of a woman's life."

[35:01] Samantha Bee:
"What does a hot flash even feel like? It's baffling because one moment you're fine, and the next, you're drenched."

They discuss societal misconceptions and the lack of comprehensive education surrounding menopause, emphasizing the need for better awareness and support systems.

[37:15] Kathryn Hahn:
"Doctors often aren't trained to recognize the full spectrum of menopause symptoms. It's like navigating uncharted territory."

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Balancing Career and Family Life

Samantha shares personal anecdotes about balancing a demanding career with family responsibilities, highlighting the challenges and joys that come with it.

[44:05] Kathryn Hahn:
"Your kids don't see you for what you do behind the scenes. They see the version of you that's present in their lives."

[45:09] Samantha Bee:
"Unless I'm working on a project that they're fascinated by, they couldn't care less about the intricacies of my work."

This segment underscores the importance of maintaining genuine relationships and not allowing professional endeavors to overshadow familial bonds.

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Maintaining Authenticity Amidst Public Perception

The conversation also touches upon how public figures manage their image and authenticity in the face of external judgments.

[47:08] Samantha Bee:
"Every picture where I'm smiling feels staged because my hands are so weird. It's hard to look natural all the time."

[48:15] Kathryn Hahn:
"People's perceptions don't define us. It's about how we see ourselves and staying true to that."

They advocate for embracing one's quirks and imperfections as essential parts of one's identity, rather than striving for an unattainable standard of perfection.

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Conclusion

This episode of "My So-Called Midlife" offers a candid and insightful exploration of the multifaceted challenges that come with midlife transitions. Through the shared experiences of Samantha Bee and Kathryn Hahn, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the importance of making informed choices, embracing bodily changes, and maintaining authenticity amidst societal pressures. The conversation serves as a reminder that midlife, with all its complexities, is also a time of profound growth and self-discovery.

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Notable Quotes

• Samantha Bee [15:56]:
  "Choosing between a low-paying tour job and a promising LA opportunity felt like steering my entire life one way or the other."

• Kathryn Hahn [34:01]:
  "Menopause isn't just about hot flashes. It's a complex journey that affects every aspect of a woman's life."

• Samantha Bee [10:07]:
  "Sometimes I just need to sleep on a decision. My mind races with pros and cons, but my gut tells me what I want."

• Kathryn Hahn [45:09]:
  "Unless I'm working on a project that they're fascinated by, they couldn't care less about the intricacies of my work."

---

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the complexities of midlife, offering both heartfelt stories and practical insights to inspire and empower listeners on their own journeys.

Transcript

[David Duchovny]

Hey everyone, it's David Duchovny. Do you ever feel like a failure? Trust me, I get it. Hell, I've spent my whole life almost feeling like a failure. It's appropriate though, because on Fail Better, my new podcast with Lemonada Media, exploring the world of failure, how it holds us back, propels us forward, and ultimately shapes our lives is the whole point. Each week I'll chat with artists, athletes, actors and experts about how our perceived failures have actually been our biggest catalysts for growth, revelation, and even healing. Through these conversations, I hope we can learn how to embrace the opportunity of failure and Fail Better together. Fail Better is out on May 7th. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cool Op Vilaisak]

Hi, I'm Cool Op Vilaisak.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And I'm Soo Jin Pak.

[Cool Op Vilaisak]

And we're your aunties on Add to Cart, a podcast all about the things we buy, the things we buy into, and what that says about who we are. We're real life friends who love to.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Talk about what we're adding to cart.

[Cool Op Vilaisak]

Sometimes that means trying the latest snail serum to slather on our faces or a sweater that screams 1/3 ugly. That's right, Sue. Each week we dive into honest, oftentimes TMI conversations about what's taking up space in our shopping carts and in our minds, be it products, trends or something for our Auntie book club. We also bring guests on the show and take a peek into their carts because the things a person buys or doesn't says a lot about them. We like to think of ourselves as aunties to all fun, slightly unhinged and always ready to share some sage advice.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And a good product wreck.

[Cool Op Vilaisak]

Add to Cart is out now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Samantha Bee]

Lemonada.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Hey listeners, we're taking a break for the holidays and we hope you are too. Especially if that means time for listening to more podcasts because we have a really good one for you. Choice Words with Samantha Bee, if you don't know, Sam is a comedian, writer, TV host and political commentator. On Choice Words, Sam sits down with people she admires to examine the biggest choices they've made in their lives and the ripple effects those decisions have had. In this episode, actor Kathryn Hahn joins Sam from her she shed to talk about how important it is to try a decision on for size before you make it and how she's real good at getting rid of stuff except for her kids art projects. After you listen, search for Choice Words Wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find a link to the show notes that will take you there. I hope you enjoy It.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Look, I don't want to beat a dead horse. And besides, I couldn't find a dead horse if I wanted to. They're all in RFK Jr. S car, but I simply must remind you to check in on your local Planned Parenthood. I know, and you know Planned Parenthood is synonymous with abortion in this country. But they do so much more to serve over 2 million patients a year. They perform STI testing, cancer screenings, administer birth control, they do wellness exams, and yes, they even perform vasectomies because, yeah, in case you forgot while you were making abortion a women's issue, men are a vital part of unplanned pregnancies, too. Which is why I have some serious choice words for Republicans like President Elect Trump and Vice President Elect Vance, who are committed to defunding Planned Parenthood as soon as they take office. Providing health care to millions of people is expensive. The majority of Planned Parenthood's patients are at or below the poverty line, but no one has ever turned away if they need care. Abortion is an important part of what they do, but it is not the entire organization. Planned Parenthood is lucky to get donations from caring citizens every day, but it needs government funding to continue its services as well. Its finances are precarious even under the best administration. So just imagine what it's going to look like over the next four years. So this holiday season, if you're looking for ways to get involved or to spread some generosity around, reach out to your local Planned Parenthood if you are lucky enough to still have one. This is choice words. I'm Samantha Bee. My guest today is Kathryn Hahn, who I am such a huge fan of. You know, Catherine from Stepbrothers, Wanderlust, Transparent, WandaVision, and her new show, Agatha. All along. We need so many breaths of fresh air these days, and this was surely one of them. I laughed so hard, my cheeks hurt. So take a listen and make good choices. This conversation could not be better. Time. Oh, I know. My goodness. How. First of all, how are you?

[Samantha Bee]

I am very well.

[Soo Jin Pak]

The world can go mad.

[Samantha Bee]

Wait. Do you know where I first met you in person was. I'll never forget it because I was so starstruck. It was at an awards show.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yes.

[Samantha Bee]

And we were seated, like, next to each other, like, maybe. I know. And I was so excited.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I was so excited to meet you. I was trying to remember which award show it was.

[Samantha Bee]

I think it was. It was. Listen to me. I'm like, I think it was, but I haven't been that many. That's why I'M like, that's why, like.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I know exactly the name Emmys. Maybe it was like the untelevised ones, but we were still highly, totally. Like, you still got to bring the heat, even if they're not putting it on television.

[Samantha Bee]

Right. And I always bring flats in my husband's jacket just because I can't deal with the heels all night.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Can I ask you a question? He's a good man. Do you know what is so funny? I'm so happy that you mentioned that because I do that too. And it was just for like, you know, for shits and giggles. When you're online shopping and you don't buy anything and you're like, put stuff in your cart. I put a pair of flats in my cart. And I was like, you're not going to the Emmys. I don't need these, like cute little flats.

[Samantha Bee]

Like ballet flats.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Like little ballet flats. Like squishy ones that would fit in a clutch. Like a huge clutch. You could get them in a.

[Samantha Bee]

It's kind of a great idea to have any time you have to dress up.

[Soo Jin Pak]

It's true.

[Samantha Bee]

Which I guess I don't have. I mean, so I literally would either have hotel slippers.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yep.

[Samantha Bee]

In the same way. Or what. There's been a couple times where I've put full on Birkenstocks, which is like a real bummer for him because then he has to deal with the high, high heeled shoes for the rest of the night.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That's very true. But I was very happy when the. During the advent of the giant clutch that was like.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Comically oversized. I was like, this is what we're talking about. This is clutch.

[Samantha Bee]

Like a burst bag or something. But it was like a large clutch that I love.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Loved. Like a joke. It's like a joke about clickes.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes. It's like a joke. Right. I think you might as well be carrying around a standard size pillow in cab in calves leather.

[Soo Jin Pak]

100%. I'm like, yeah. All the male designers thought that this was like a real, like campy statement about clutches. But we're like, bring it on. Because I have to put shoes in this.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm like, we might as well just call spade a spade and make it a backpack.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Can we? Oh, God. Oh, God. You're speaking my language.

[Samantha Bee]

Sometimes those huge clutches come with a strap so you can wear it.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Convertible. Yeah, convertible. I'm not a fan of tiny purses. I can only quit for once.

[Samantha Bee]

Me too. That you can't fit it. That you can't fit a phone.

[Soo Jin Pak]

In.

[Samantha Bee]

I have definitely worn them. Like, when someone else is like, this is it. And I'm like, yes, it is.

[Soo Jin Pak]

It hangs off my hand, and it's not as big as my hand.

[Samantha Bee]

I still have to carry my phone in the other hand. And they're getting confused one another.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Okay, we've. I think you're incredible. I think you're incredible. So I'm like, so goddamn tickled to be talking to you, and I need it. I need it. I need to talk to you like I need oxygen in my lungs and so perfectly. Time to talk about choice because you're talking about choices out in the world.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Oh, Jesus. All right. Okay. We talk about choices here. We start the conversation by talking about, like, what are you, God? Are you good at making them? Are you an excellent decision maker?

[Samantha Bee]

I am. You know, in certain. Like, if it's. If it's about looking at a. At a closet, I am very fast with being like, yes, no donate. Like, I have no sentimentality when it comes to that kind of stuff. Great stuff. I have a really. I'm very easy with letting go of any. Like, kids. Drawings aside, I'm very okay with letting go of it. I love just being able to, like, and it never happens, like, for family, but, like, that. That vibe is like my favorite. Like, clean counters, organized drawers. But when it comes to making kind of life decisions or even like a decision at a restaurant, it like, takes me a second. I don't need to pull the room for the rest, you know, for the restaurant. And usually not even for, like a huge life decision, but. Because sometimes it makes it more confusing, But I'm definitely not that great at those kinds of things.

[Soo Jin Pak]

How do you do it? How do you get there?

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, just so much hand wringing. Everyone gets sick of being around me. They're listening to me flip flop. I. It's pros and cons. Sometimes I think I should just sleep on it. Sometimes I say. I say the thing, I say an answer, and then I immediately. It's depending on how I feel afterwards, immediately take it back. So sometimes I need to, like, try it out. I'm getting better just the older I.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Get, but I feel like I relate to that. Like trying on a decision, like saying it out loud to myself and others and just going like, yeah, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do that thing. That sounds good. I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. And then I feel queasy for hours and I go. I don't think that at a cellular level, everybody Every cell knows it's not happening.

[Samantha Bee]

But then there's always the part of me that's like, but, like, what would have happened? Like what, like what is. You know, my mom would always say, if you're in doubt, don't. Which I try to hold true to. But I. But sometimes I don't trust myself.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Right. Sometimes you're like, but there's other factors.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That like, maybe we should do things that feel hard or will be profitable in some way or like will enhance other aspects of life. So that kind of like overrides. But then you have. Do you have like a little system that you put that stuff through your brain?

[Samantha Bee]

I mean, I think I do have to. If it's not an immediate yes, then that is a sign that I want to investigate or an immediate no. So that's like, that's, that's where you want to investigate and try on. And. And those lists are really helpful. The like, if one outweighs the other, of course. But then some of it is just intuition and like, you never know if it was the right one. Sometimes you just have to. And I do. Like I was saying, I feel like the older my kids are and the older I'm getting, the easier it is to make a faster decision because I just don't want to spend like, I mean in my 20s and 30s, I would luxuriate right in that. And now there's just not enough. It doesn't feel like that is time that I want to spend. Spend doing that.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I think that's in a way a gift a little bit. Like, obviously time goes so explosively fast.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

You get. Which I totally hate.

[Samantha Bee]

Which I know it's November. Horrible.

[Soo Jin Pak]

It's November. Like, what? But it does give you the opportunity to cut away things that aren't worth your time. They're like, life's too short. Life's too short to worry about it. Decisions.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes. Decisions. Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That's cleansing. We'll be right back after this.

[Unknown]

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[Kathryn Hahn]

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[Soo Jin Pak]

When you think of a big choice that you made that was like maybe a big swing or maybe even just like something little that you wouldn't have even thought of that really impacted you, is there one that you think of?

[Samantha Bee]

Well, when I was graduating from grad school, which I went to for theater, which I thought, I thought it was for theater, I had gotten a like a basically a bus, like a road and truck job for this play Proof it was Mary Louise Parker, which I loved. That was she was, she originated the part. It was also one of those plays that was like just killed me and so it was like to play her Part for the first, like, regional tour of the show. And that was also at the same time that I had gotten, like, a job that would take me out to Los Angeles, you know, at a time in my life that I really needed. I was swimming in debt from undergrad and graduate school. My then boyfriend, now hubby and I were, like, not in a really. You know, we were still like, who are we?

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

And, you know, the money for this tour would not have been anywhere near. I mean, it was any kind of money. So at that point, it was just, like, I was so thrilled to be asked to work in any capacity, but it was definitely not, like, chipping away at Sallie Mae kind of money.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

And that was like, the first time in my life that I had to really have the luxury of being able to say. To have that be the. The question. Like, I'd never had that before in my life, so. And it was very difficult because I felt like the stakes felt so huge. It was like, is my life gonna go this way or that way? Is it gonna be like, Cal that LA track, which I've. I'd never even been to, like, that was. I didn't think that those would be my people out here. Like, I was so embedded on the East Coast. I'm from the Midwest. Or would it be theater, which is, like, where I had felt the most myself was in that space. And, you know, it was like a medical procedural show that. Who knew, like, how it would, like, have turned out? And it was a really fun part, and I loved the people involved. But again, like, do I want to just up and move? It felt like the scarecrow in the wizard of Oz. Just, like, this way or that way. Like, it just felt so monumental.

[Soo Jin Pak]

How did you decide? How did you do it?

[Samantha Bee]

Well, there was a bunch. First of all, I think that the student loans were a huge factor.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Huge. That's a big burden.

[Samantha Bee]

That was. It's a big, big burden. Like, I remember my last year of grad school, My friend and I would get a piece of pizza and be like, you know, like, in five years, this $3.99 piece of pizza will have cost us $17 because of how much. How much debt we had taken out just to even live there.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

So that was huge. And then I think also my private life, like, my life with my. I think if I'd gone on tour for, like, a year.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Right.

[Samantha Bee]

It was a difficult thing than thinking of this show that at the time would have only was only, like, five episodes. I still had this feeling, like, it was only temporary. Like I had my storage unit in Brooklyn for years after we were living here. You know, we. When we finally had it like u hauled out, it was like that's what we deemed store worthy. It was like bags of tights for like New York witches.

[Soo Jin Pak]

You're like all of my character wigs and my Joan Arma trading albums.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah. Did I need character wigs and character shoes?

[Soo Jin Pak]

Character shoes?

[Samantha Bee]

I love a character shoes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I have one bin. I kept one bin from those years. Just because you've got to keep one if you have the room for it. You got to have one Rubbermaid bin. That is your whole, whole 20s.

[Samantha Bee]

It's your, it's your like bus and truck show. Like that's what you take with you.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yes.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, yeah. No idea. That. And then when I moved to LA for this job I was staying at, I don't. Do you remember or have you ever heard of the Oakwood Apartments?

[Soo Jin Pak]

Oh yeah, of course.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, of course I stayed there. I think there's an amazing documentary about it. But I stayed there. So it just felt like me and a lot of stage moms and their offspring and recently divorced men and weirdest vibe and like I would go to their convenience store and buy like pre packed hard boiled eggs that had already been shucked. You know what I mean? Like kind of in water where you're.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Like, you could like taste someone's hands.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Because they shelled it and then sealed.

[Samantha Bee]

It and then had to put it in like egg water.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

And I was like, open it up and dry it off. And it was like, oh God. I think about that. Yeah. So I was there and I had like a purple Suzuki Sidekick. And my whole life in LA was that stretch of Ventura between, you know, all the way up to this place called to die Sushi buffet. So that was, that was my life.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Did your boyfriend, later husband, did he come with you or did you venture.

[Samantha Bee]

No, he stayed back here because we thought it was very temporary. But then when it became kind of a. Not even kind of when it became a serious regular job, he moved out. But it was, that was like a. You know, we were long distance for like a half a year even for him to move out here. Like both of us was. This was not what I had in the. The plan of my life. I love at that age. Like there was nothing like being like wandering around New York City. Like, I love my place in Brooklyn. I love the walking to auditions and my friends. You know, this just felt so spread out and lonely and just general a Lot of generals.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yep. Yep. That's a big. That's a huge leap of faith.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Huge leap of faith or non faith? Because he stayed behind and you were like, well, keep the. Keep that my side of the bed warm.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Coming back.

[Samantha Bee]

Let's keep that place. Let's keep that unit in Brooklyn going for no reason. Keep the lights on.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That's right. That's right. When you. When you finally paid off your student loan, were you like, God damn.

[Samantha Bee]

I remember. I mean, it was very long after that, but I remember when calling Sallie Mae, because I used to call. I mean, this is a while ago. Used to have to call every month to make sure that the check was so. Or how much I could put in that month. And so when I called and they said congratulations, like, I. It was like, I. I think I basically burst into tears. It was like she was so proud of me. I felt like it was such a sweet phone call that I never thought I would be able to hear. Like, I just kept going to school because I just kept wanting to act, and that was like the way I could. Could do it, which is pay. Pay so much money. Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

To pay them to give you parts.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, yeah. And the parts were. The parts were. I mean, for me in my 20s was like grandma and Grapes of Wrath.

[Soo Jin Pak]

You don't mind wearing an age wig, do you?

[Samantha Bee]

Let me get out my rubber. My Rubbermaid box and I'll. I'll see what I have in here.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I've already got the outfit. I've got the house dress in my tickle trunk.

[Samantha Bee]

A bra with just bird seed in the boobs so that they just look.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Oh, my God.

[Samantha Bee]

Those were the dose for the days.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That is so funny. Oh, my God. Okay. I was listening to you on NPR recently, very recently, and you said that you feel like it's at this stage of life and this point in your career that you feel like you have more control over your choices. Is that. I mean. Yes. Right.

[Samantha Bee]

It's weird because that's what the planet, like, every society the planet. Like, that's what I grew up believing was not to be the truth. That, like, my. You know, that you would kind of max out and all of a sudden there'd be this switch and you would just be playing moms and grandmas and.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Right.

[Samantha Bee]

And this. This has been weirdly, the most fertile, no pun intended, time of my, like, of this, since I was doing theater, like, since I was getting no money for it. Yeah, I know. So it's. It's kind of. I think I Just happened to meet a couple of incredible, like, rad women writers, directors who just wanted to see people our age, like, living their complex, messy, messy lives.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I love messy. And, you know, it was so fun, like, being a outside observer to your life and career, but, like, watching every. Can I say this? Can I give a compliment? And you won't be like, ew, I can't stand it.

[Samantha Bee]

I've seen. I don't know.

[Soo Jin Pak]

It's coming. I feel like you're one of those just pretty rare birds, actually.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, gosh.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Every time I see you in something, I'm like, you do the most everything you're in. I'm like, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes as you're, like, building your career, like, it's. Some parts are small, some parts are big. It doesn't really. That's not the point. The point is you're always, like, so juicy and everything that you do.

[Samantha Bee]

God. Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

For real.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, God.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And so is it creepy? Did I just.

[Samantha Bee]

No, no. That means a ton. It makes me laugh because I remember, like, early on, I was like, yes, I definitely was doing the most. It was some big swings early on.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah. But, like, in an awesome way. In a way that me as an audience member was like, love you. Like, I just recently I watched my teen. My son is 16, and I was like, you have to watch Wanderlust. We're gonna watch it. We're gonna sit down and watch it. And he was like, what is this? And I'm like, you're gonna love it. You're gonna love it. And he was like, yes, I love it.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah. That is such a fun freaking movie. I love every single one of those humans.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Oh, do you want to talk about Agatha all along? Okay, sure. Like, I loved WandaVision. Was that the first TV show in the MCU?

[Samantha Bee]

Was that the first? Yes. I don't know. There was, like. I think there were other ones. Like, this was the first one under the Disney plus banner, like, Marvel at Disney. So this. And we weren't supposed to be first. It was supposed to be, I think, Falcon and Winter Soldier, which is. I. Oh, okay. Much more like Tadish. So we were supposed to come, like, second. Is this kind of, you know, weird step sister y kind of experiment. And I think, weirdly, being first out of the gate worked in our favor because it was so left field of what had been going on over there. And I not knowing that much about Marvel myself at all before joining, it was.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

Just so thrilled by just the storytelling. So I was able to kind of Go in without the, like, burden of all this. Right. History, whatever knowledge and canon.

[Soo Jin Pak]

You didn't have to know the whole canon when you went into it.

[Samantha Bee]

Didn't have to know the whole canon. I found it out. I, like, did, you know, of course, like, they give you so much research, and that was fun to just look at this character, this old witch through that. But.

[Soo Jin Pak]

So the transition. So you're going from a supporting character to. This is your show. You are the lead character in this show.

[Samantha Bee]

Straight to witch.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Straight to witch. A centuries old witch. Yes. Claiming her power as she gets older.

[Samantha Bee]

God damn it.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Is there anything more relatable? Is there anything more desirable?

[Samantha Bee]

No. I know. We just kept thinking and being chased by death the whole time, like, and pursued, like, the whole thing, like, flirting with it and not like, you know, of course, the most complicated, tortured, twisted relationship is with death.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Right.

[Samantha Bee]

And especially the older, you know, this witch gets and all of us witches. The big picture alone. When Jack Schaefer, who also wrote WandaVision, when she pitched this to me, I was like, oh, I was so excited. And like, you know, you don't really get involved with something for the metaphorical aspect of it. I was just so excited by where we would find this character left off after the events of WandaVision. So then as I read it and all these, like, these, of course, genius themes started, like, popping out. And then when I watched it and I saw even more of it, I was. I just made me worship Jack Schaeffer even more.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I love to see witches have a moment. I love to see a witch moment.

[Samantha Bee]

I love a witch moment, especially because we have also heard witch hunt for so long that it's kind of like. And doesn't really belong in the mouths of who's saying it. So it was really fun to be able to give the real witches our props.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I've heard you reference the word menopause when you talk about the new show. Because she's very power at the end of her row, very sexy. All the network executives, I'm sure, were like, say that word more.

[Samantha Bee]

They were like, yes. Can you just keep saying menopause?

[Soo Jin Pak]

We want to attract a lot of teenage boys, so can you say menopause but explain it also?

[Samantha Bee]

I listened to the interview. Great. My thought would be just if you could sprinkle the word menopause and hormones in there just a little more freely, that would be preferable and more on brand.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Hold that thought. More choice words after one more break.

[Kathryn Hahn]

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[Unknown]

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[Soo Jin Pak]

I just did a show called how to Survive Menopause. So I'm going to write a book. I'm going to. I wrote, I did. It was like I just did like a little stage show. It'll be an audible thing that you can download and stuff in March. But I was like, I'm doing so.

[Samantha Bee]

Much more of this.

[Soo Jin Pak]

We need so much more of it. And at some point I was talking about it like my I love my son so much. He's incredible. He's here. I love him. He's a tender, wonderful boy and he loves birds and cats. He's great. And even he. I was on my way to the theater and I was like, I'm doing. I'm. I'm busy tonight because I'm doing my show. He was like, what show? I'm like, the one I've been talking about for two months. It's called how to Survive Menopause. And he was like, can you just stop saying the word menopause? Like, no, I can't.

[Samantha Bee]

No, I can't. Right. Actually, otherwise you're going to just think your mother has lost it. And it's good to give it some context.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I'm like, this education is actually gonna serve you in life.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

You just don't know it now.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

When are we getting our first real, really funny menopause TV show? We're gonna.

[Samantha Bee]

I know.

[Soo Jin Pak]

The Golden Girls. But, like, honestly, it has.

[Samantha Bee]

But it has to be. Yeah, right. But menopause. I know. You're absolutely. It's bananas because we all. You know, half the population all. All goes through it. Even the dudes, apparently.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yes.

[Samantha Bee]

They're virgin. And even all the doctors that I've seen out here, like, it's still such a uncharted territory. It's such a moving target, too. Even how long it lasts. It's just like the whole idea of perimenopause. I mean, you could attribute so many other symptoms to it that you're not. It could be that. It could be some. It could be something else. So it just. It does feel like something. Such unchartered territory.

[Soo Jin Pak]

When it starts, when it ends. The bottom of the ocean, go down to the bottom. Can you get to the bottom of the Marianas Trench and then come back? And then it's fine. Maybe.

[Samantha Bee]

And then maybe it's fine. Or maybe your lungs explode on the way back up. I don't know.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I'm amazed by how much no one teaches you about it. And even, like. Even if you were reading about it, they're just like. You may experience hot flashes. I'm like, yeah, but what is that?

[Samantha Bee]

What is that? What does it feel like? Right.

[Soo Jin Pak]

What do you mean?

[Samantha Bee]

What can we do? I remember getting, like, a wild yam cream and just being like, okay, you're supposed to, like, put it on the inside of your legs and wild yams. But, like, there's all wild yams. But, like, I. I would have tried for that hot minute. No pun intended. I would have tried anything. But it was. But I remember, like, when my mom, like, nobody talked about it. No, of course. And I just remember, like, oh, she was like, wrapping. She would not mind me saying this. Like, wrapping Christmas presents. Smoking and crying. Like, I wandered downstairs and I thought. And I was like, ooh, something's going on in the basement with mom. But, like, it was all menopause. Like, yeah, that was just what it was. She just.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And.

[Samantha Bee]

And that was back when they were giving women the pills were of pregnant horse piss.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Horse pests. Yeah. Or like, from a nun. Like, from a virgin nun in Italy. Like, her urine. Like, crazy.

[Samantha Bee]

Crazy.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I remember going to. Because we had. We lived in New York and we had our first child in, like, 2006. And my stepmom would come and babysit.

[Samantha Bee]

Same with me. Oh, I know.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Where does it go?

[Samantha Bee]

I don't understand.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And somebody told us, literally, that we were supposed to keep the apartment so hot because you can't ever put a blanket on a baby. They were like, you need to keep this apartment so hot or your baby is gonna die. It's gonna strangle itself in blankets. And we were like, holy. So the. We turned the heat up to 86. Oh, my God.

[Samantha Bee]

Was.

[Soo Jin Pak]

She was like, I love this baby. Like, after two days, she was like, I cannot come to your home. Like, I cannot be in your home. And then she would walk around the streets, and she literally wore sweatbands. Like Bjorn work. Like, I had sweat. Like a head tennis sweatband and wristlets. Water was coming off of her in sheets. Like, she. I don't think she's healthy. Like, what's going on with her? And she's having, like, regular menopause. Yeah, yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

Just regular menopause. I know.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

Did you have any of those? I never had any. Like, during the day. All of a sudden, I was covered in sweat. It was more like at night for me.

[Soo Jin Pak]

More like at night I would leave. I stopped buying white sheets because it's just. There's a crime outline that's just yellow of, like, a human body in a twist. Like somebody was killed here. Like, there's no point. I just. Now I buy pink sheets. They're just like rose tone. Because it conceals.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

It really the crime.

[Samantha Bee]

A dusty rose.

[Soo Jin Pak]

A dusty rose. Still an outline, probably. But you got to keep refreshing. It's just like. Just like, you got to keep pressing, refresh. Buy cheaper sheets more often.

[Samantha Bee]

For sure. We actually bought separate comforters just because I was like, ah. Like, I could. I would just, like, whip them off. We have, like, two side by side.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I think that that's a technique. It's like. It is Swedish duvet. There's some name for it.

[Samantha Bee]

There's a name for it. Yeah. I can't remember what. What it is. It's like a Dufeld. I don't know what it is, but, yeah, we got. We each got one. And it's actually kind of made life.

[Soo Jin Pak]

A lot more relaxed, smart.

[Samantha Bee]

What if I was like, we just bought one and we share it.

[Soo Jin Pak]

We share. We just share everything. My side is wet.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Sopping wet. Duvet. Did you hear it? I did hear that. Women or people? This is not just women. Humans. All people age in waves. So, like, you hit one wave in your 50s, late 40s, early 50s. And then, like, I thought I was dying. I was like, I'm gonna die for sure. But I didn't. And then you hit it again in your early 60s. I was like, we gotta get strong.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, coming over.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I'm gonna work out. I'm gonna work out in your she shed.

[Samantha Bee]

My she shed? You sure can she shed. But it's also tougher to get muscle mass.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yes.

[Samantha Bee]

I guess. Yeah. Because I used to be able to, like, whoop. And it's a little tougher, but also it's something you're supposed to do. The older we get is strength train. Which I kind of get. Yeah. A little. Yeah. I love. I mean, I do love exercise. Motivation has been weirdly less. But I do. I do love, like, moving in some way. Even if it's a hike with my pal.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Sounds good.

[Samantha Bee]

You're in New York. You get to walk everywhere. Like, other. You know, walk, walk, walk.

[Soo Jin Pak]

But then, you know, like. But then the lower half is very exercised and fresh.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And the upper half just slowly turns to powder. And then the shoulders with the messenger bag. And then you're crooked.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Soo Jin Pak]

And you go see someone, and they're like, you're crooked. And you're like, yeah. I don't know. It's the way it is.

[Samantha Bee]

I remember growing up and one of my friend's moms. Again, everybody smoked back then, but I remember she. She would be smoking, like, hunched over, and she had one of those. I think it's called a dowager's hump. Like, it's like a pad of fat that happens on the top of your back. And. And I. It's like your neck ends, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh. And I just remember being like, wow, that. How does that happen? Like, what is that? Yeah. What is a dowager? I've completely forgot what a dowager is. Somebody to come.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That's certainly a pejorative for someone who probably never got married or Something or like their husband died. I don't actually know what a dowager is. Yeah, I'm gonna look it up. I'm gonna look it up. Are you creating projects for yourself now, like. Or do you. What. What other areas are you juicing it creatively? What do you have on the go?

[Samantha Bee]

I have been, Sam, such a. Acting like one track mind. I love it so much and I. I love each. That each experience is so wildly different than the one before and that you have to kind of adapt constantly to different processes. Not only your directors, but your fellow actors, the crew. The. Like that. That. That really keeps me. Keeps my juices flowing. That sounds so bad.

[Soo Jin Pak]

No, it's good.

[Samantha Bee]

It keeps me engaged. I definitely have had some directing and writing thoughts, but I think, because I would love actors so much that I think it would be just. I would love to be there in that capacity to just kind of doula, you know, happening. Like, I just think that would be really incredible. I just love actors, but I think so.

[Soo Jin Pak]

True. It's like the workplace changes for you. Yeah, every time. So it's like remaking. It's just like a whole new setup. I mean, sometimes it's the same players and sometimes there's familiarity. But yes, often it's just like a brand new set of circumstances, which is very. It's invigorating, right?

[Samantha Bee]

Well, it is. It's invigorating, but it's also like, you really have to get used to that. It's great in terms of impermanence because even if it is the same group in another project, it's. We'll never have that environment again. Like, it will never be the same unless it's a series, blah, blah, blah. But if. But even if that series is. Whenever that project is over, it will like, the alchemy would never. You could never match it. So there is like, I remember at the beginning any. Even when I was like in whatever high school, the beginning. But I would cry at the wrap of any play. Like, the closing height. I just was like, this was my family. Like, there's. I will never have this, like, kind of feeling with another actor, another group. Like, this was my whole life was in this, like, this crew. And I still have it. Like, I still do have like a little mourning period at the end of every one of them. Because you do have to kind of throw yourself into this new group of people who all have the same investment. I mean, these hours, like, you know, are not for the faint of heart. It's like a lot of time away from Your family and like, a. So, I mean, I definitely fall all the time for these crews and cast and directors, and so it's always a little bit of a un petite mort, but not. Yes, but it does feel like a little death.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Do you think that your family will follow you into this and, like, do your. Does your son do this? Yeah, he has.

[Samantha Bee]

He never. He never wants to be. Oh, I shouldn't say that. He has not expressed. No one has expressed an interest in being an actor.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Okay.

[Samantha Bee]

But my. My son really loves directing and cinematography. I mean, that's what he's into right now. My daughter is like, I have no idea what I want to do. And I'm like, you're a sophomore. You don't have to worry about it. But my son, who's a senior, is definitely. That's. He's Right now. That's, like, what he excited about. But we always laugh because any project that he's had to do for school or for anything, he always cast my husband and he never cast me. What? He was like, dude, I'm for hire. Like, I'm right here. I wouldn't have to go far. Like, yeah, I'm not gonna ask for anything talented. You know, I'm doing your craft service. Like, this is a twofer. Like, I'm already doing it. Like, I'll bring my own cop. But yeah, he. He really likes to separate the church and say. Which I highly. I actually really, really appreciate.

[Soo Jin Pak]

They also don't. I don't know if your kids see you for what you do. Do you think that they see you and see your work? Probably not.

[Samantha Bee]

Do you think your kids do?

[Soo Jin Pak]

They don't. They absolutely do not. They could not care less. Yeah, my kids do bring home the bacon. Like, just don't say menopause. Don't say it. I'm like, this is what, this butters your bread? Yeah, this is. Yeah, this is my art. What are you talking about?

[Samantha Bee]

They're like, oh, yeah, my kids too. Unless I'm in something with someone that they're freaking out about, then there are questions.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Okay.

[Samantha Bee]

But it's usually. It's usually they could. Same thing. They could care less. Although a lot of my body of work is now, like, wander. Like, a lot of those things, like stepbrothers or any of those. I mean, I did a show called I Love Dick, which was really hard to, like, just kind of throw out casually. My husband's like, are you on Dick tomorrow? And I'd be like, oh, yeah. Nuh, whatever. And the kid, like, so the kids were. But, you know, it was only for my son recently that, you know, he said he'd walk into a party and they'd be playing stepbrothers and he would just turn, turn around and walk out. He was like, no, thanks.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah. They're like, no, I don't, I don't acknowledge this. We played. They once played a clip of my television show in one of my daughter's classes. And she didn't mention, she didn't tell anybody that that was her mom. Like, it was just like random. It was just like random class. I guess it was some subject matter that they were studying. They played like a two minute clip. And I was like. And were you. Did you tell your te. You know, that must have been fun for you. And she was like, why? I'm like, you didn't tell anyone? She was like, why would I do that? I'm like, I don't know, it's just a fact. It's kind of interesting. No, she was like, not really. Not really.

[Samantha Bee]

I think that's really good and healthy. Sometimes you're like, ah, I kind of do it for you.

[Soo Jin Pak]

But no, I think it is good. It is actually. It's the natural order. They're not supposed to find us impressive.

[Samantha Bee]

Or high school tours. You'd always be like, can you stand like over there? And I was like, yeah, sure.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah. It upsets the balance if your children are, are like impressed by a single thing that you do.

[Samantha Bee]

They cannot be. They can't. They have to make fun of it or just ignore it. Yeah. Thick skin.

[Soo Jin Pak]

You gotta. Yeah, you can't. They don't allow you to feel like you're important at all.

[Samantha Bee]

No, no, they're just like, they'll just start laughing like, if they're anywhere near me on a red carpet. Like, they just are laughing at me.

[Soo Jin Pak]

It's so hard. You're like, hold my backpack. And they're like, oh, my God, you look. What is that face you're doing? What are you doing with your hands? Mom, come on.

[Samantha Bee]

Like, oh, God. Like, you could just feel the judgment. And then every time I see a picture where they're like around it, I'm always like, like, smiling. But, like, my hands are so weird.

[Soo Jin Pak]

There's really nothing more relaxing than somebody telling you you're doing something weird with your hands. And then you're just like, well, I'm out of my. I guess I'm in my head now.

[Samantha Bee]

Or too much with your hands. I get that a lot of like, it's a lot as in. You're like, you're doing a lot. Maybe like, let's try and then. I really don't know sometimes what I'm doing.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah. No, I'm like, there's not enough pockets. Can you tie them back? Tie them down?

[Samantha Bee]

Could you just duct tape them to the sides of my body?

[Soo Jin Pak]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Samantha Bee]

This was. It was so.

[Soo Jin Pak]

I knew it would be so fun talking to you.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, my God. I want to keep going forever and ever and ever.

[Soo Jin Pak]

My face hurts.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, thank you for having me. I could do this. I mean, again. Have me on again, please, because this is so fun.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Oh, my God. We're gonna do a. We're gonna do a two woman show about menopause and we're gonna Talk. And it's 18 hours long. Enjoy, everyone. It costs $4,000 per ticket.

[Samantha Bee]

Passing the clap between the two of us.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That's right. Oh, gosh.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you.

[Soo Jin Pak]

That was Kathryn Hahn, and I had no choice but to look up one thing. Neither of us could remember what a dowager is, but we knew that it was fancy. And it is. The official definition is a widow with a title or property derived from her late husband. Good for her. Thanks for joining us. I'm Samantha Bee and see you next week for some more Choice Words. Thank you for listening to Choice Words, which was created by and is hosted by me. The show is produced by Zvia Baron Reinstein with editing and additional producing by Josh Richmond. We're distributed by Lemonada Media and you can find me at Real Sambi on Instagram and Instagram. Follow Choice Words wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

[David Duchovny]

Hey, everyone, it's David Duchovny. Do you ever feel like a failure? Trust me, I get it. Hell, I've spent my whole life almost feeling like a failure. It's appropriate, though, because on Fail Better, my new podcast with Lemonada Media, exploring the world of failure, how it holds us back, propels us forward, and ultimately shapes our lives is the whole point. Each week, I'll chat with artists, athletes, actors, and experts about how our perceived failures have actually been our biggest catalysts for growth, revelation, and even healing. Through these conversations, I hope we can learn how to embrace the opportunity of failure and fail better together. Fail better is out now. You can listen ad free on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah Silverman]

Why, hello there. This is your pal Sarah Silverman. You know, the standup comic that's not afraid of a diarrhea joke. Oh, my God, I'm so brave. I hope you're enjoying this podcast that you're listening to. I am just dropping in here to let you know about another podcast I think you'd like, and it's called the Sarah Silverman Podcast. Each week, listeners from all over the world call in and they ask me for adv or they talk about something going on in their life, anything, their silliest, grossest, deepest, darkest situations. And then I respond, whether I'm qualified to or not. Go ahead, search for the Sarah Silverman Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

[Soo Jin Pak]

Bye.