← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Revisit: Parenting Our Parents (And Dating!) with Yvette Nicole Brown
00:36:11
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is supported by what Should I Do with My Money? From Morgan Stanley. Smart people often don't feel smart about money. I know I don't, but this podcast makes getting advice about your money less intimidating. In each episode you'll hear honest conversations between people who share their money questions and experienced financial advisors. You'll get to listen to candid conversations about people's fears and hopes around money. The conversations can get emotional, but they're always practical. I checked out the episode about motherhood and money during menopause on what should I do with my money and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I've never felt more seen about my anxieties on how to save for mine and my kids future. I've noticed that as I enter midlife, I began experiencing growing stress and anxiety about every financial decision I have made and this is a universal experience amongst women. I learned so much about how to rethink my stress and where to look for financial help. What are you waiting for? Find what Should I Do with My Money? On your podcast player and feel more supported when it comes to talking about money. Armoire Makes Getting Dressed Easy With a clothing rental membership from Armoire, build the perfect wardrobe with brands that are high quality, unique and recommended just for you. All you have to do is take a five minute style quiz and select items from your dynamic personalized closet. The styles show up at your door in as little as two days. Then when you're ready for new clothes, just swap them out for more new to you styles. I never have time to just go shopping or change my wardrobe every season and I found myself uninspired by my closet day after day, which is why I'm happy I found Armoire. I could easily change my wardrobe without taking extra time off my schedule and be pleasantly surprised by their styling choices. I always feel like I have something new and exciting to wear. Armoire allows you to rent high quality designer clothing for for every occasion and then send it back. Whether you're planning your outfit for a date night, packing for a conference, or in need of a gown for a black tie event, you will be the best dressed person in the room without ever having to brave a fitting room with fluorescent lights. Trust me, your overly cramped closet and the environment will thank you. And whether you're in between sizes, need something that fits comfortably one week and a bit looser the next, or just want to feel good in your clothes as your body changes, I Armoire offers a flexible solution. You don't have to worry about outgrowing them in a few months. Simply swap for the next size or style whenever you need to. Plus I get access to designer clothing for a fraction of the cost instead of spending $300 on a dress I'll wear once I rent it and a few other things for a fraction of that. It's like having a rotating closet of luxe pieces without the guilt of overspending. Fashion math is finally in my favorite Right now my listeners can give Armoire a try and get up to 50% off their first month. That's up to $125 off. Just visit Armoire Style Midlife. That's Armoire Style A R M O I R E Style Midlife to get up to 50% off your first month and never worry about what to wear again. Try Armoire today. Lemonade.
- [03:12]
B
I looked after my mum for two and a half years. We knew she was dying. I can't say it was easy. It was tough. It was tough emotionally. All I'd like to say is it was the biggest honour I've ever, ever had in my life and I would do it again.
- [03:30]
A
Welcome to my so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. Caregiving for our parents, it's a complicated thing and if you're in the sandwich generation like me, y' all know exactly what I'm talking about. As we maneuver this part of our lives, it's hard to know exactly what we're supposed to do. Like, do I need to check my dad's meds? Do I need to make sure that he's actually taking them? Do I need to hire somebody? Like, these are really hard, hard things and it's hard to find the resources to do it all. But today's guest, she has figured it all out and she does it with so much grace. Yvette Nicole Brown is an actress and she's best known for her role as Shirley Bennett in the comedy series Community. But when her dad started showing signs of Alzheimer's in 2014, she broke her contract just to take care of him. And since then she's become a powerful caregiver advocate. She's been interviewing caregivers around the country on her podcast, Squeezed. The podcast is a lot about the struggles of caregiving, the joys, and just how to manage all the big feelings that come along with it. After talking to Yvette, I started thinking about how do I live my life with kindness? And even if I'm a caregiver to my two sons. How do I make sure that I still care for myself? The other thing that I thought was really powerful was that she recently got engaged in. In midlife. So for all of us who think, like, oh, I'm too old to find my soulmate. No, you're not. You're never too old to find love. That's what Yvette taught me. I'm so excited, y'. All. Let's get into it. Yvette. Let's get to it.
- [05:15]
B
Okay, let's do it.
- [05:16]
A
So on this show, we talk a lot about this midlife mindset, we call it. And it varies for a lot of folks. I talk to you. Some people are like, fuck, yeah. Living the best time of my life. And other people are like, this sucks. Like, my life is over. Where do you land? Like, what's your midlife mindset?
- [05:33]
B
As I swallow my ginger chew. That's the midlife issue. I have to make sure my stomach is okay. You know what? I've always felt like an older person, Even when I was a kid, when I was like. Remember being in, like, junior high, in high school? Like, I've always been mother hen. I've always been the one that watched out for everybody. So I kind of always have looked forward to getting to the age where my bossiness would be understood and appreciated and respected and respected, respected. But I finally. I feel like I've reached that age. And so when I crossed over 40, I had been hearing women say, you know, this is when your life begins because you stop caring what people think. And you just, you know, not selfishly, but you live for yourself. You. You prioritize yourself. And I really found that to be true. And now I'm in my 50s. I'm 53. And now I'm really like, I. Good luck, everybody. Because, you know, I'm still kind and I still care about people, but I have finally realized that I'm people too. So I care and look out for myself as well. And so it's been. My 50s have been wonderful for that reason.
- [06:38]
A
Wow. And do you think there's a sh. A change from your 40s to 50s and, like, kind of ending a little bit of that? People pleasing?
- [06:45]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I was raised to be kind, so there's always gonna be a part of me that I think is always gonna think about other people. But I think, to my detri, I thought of other people ahead of myself back in the day, and I'm at the place now where I will think of other people. In addition to myself. So that's been the difference. Crossing over into 50s. Yeah.
- [07:07]
A
Yeah. So I'd love to give our listeners tips and tricks. Is there anything you discovered in your 50s that's been a game changer?
- [07:14]
B
You know, I haven't mastered this, but sleep, restorative sleep is really awesome. I've always been historically a really great napper. Like, I could nap anywhere.
- [07:25]
A
Me too.
- [07:26]
B
But, you know, menopause happens and then your. Your body gets kind of discombobulated. This is what I've learned. If I am heavily scheduled, I am going to be worried about everything that I have to do, and that's going to affect my sleep the night before, and it's going to affect my nap time during the day. So I try to not heavily schedule myself. That's the. The. The thing, you know, Give yourself some room. I saw something on TikTok, I think yesterday. I think it was TikTok, where this woman was talking about she had lost her mother. And she said, my mother, her mother had a stroke. She said she was here one day, she was go. And she said she realized that her mother was slowly dying because her mother never rested. She was always moving, always planning, always doing. And it's like, to what end are we doing this to ourselves? To what end are we just chasing the bag? And I gotta succeed and I gotta amass stuff and money and experiences. Like, if it's. Experiences, maybe like if it's. You wanna go to the most beautiful mountains and visit. That's, you know, restorative, rest type travel. Things are fine. But this desire to. I gotta be on the top. I got why and for how long and how much do you need? So if I was trying to crack the matrix or give anybody some breadcrumbs, I would say, please do not work and stress and schedule yourself to your own detriment to where you look up and you know your heart is stopping. Cause you just stressed yourself out. For what? For what?
- [08:56]
A
It's really good advice. It's like we have to end the hustle culture of just moving to move.
- [09:02]
B
Yeah.
- [09:03]
A
I wanted to talk to you about your podcast, Lemonada Squeezed.
- [09:07]
B
Yes.
- [09:07]
A
And it follows people across the US who are caregiving, whether it's their kids or their parents or themselves or some combination of all three. I've been listening to it while I go on my runs, and it's really, really moved me.
- [09:18]
B
Aw, thank you.
- [09:20]
A
You know, what were your biggest takeaways from hosting that show and in your journey as a caregiver activist and the people You've met.
- [09:29]
B
It's so funny to even think of myself as a caregiving activist. Like, I'm just. I have been trying to advocate for my father more than anything, and that has led to advocating for other caregivers. And then, you know, lastly, because caregivers are always last, then then advocating for other caregivers. The takeaway from doing that amazing show that I'm so grateful that I got to host is that, you know, you're not alone. I think so many of us that are caregivers, we put our heads down and we just like, probably just every woman in general. It's not even just caregivers. It's something that women in particular do. We just extend ourselves so much for everyone else, right? And you just don't question whether you're tired, you don't question whether you're hungry. You don't question whether you have the time. You just go, okay, well, this is. Somebody needs me, so I'm going to do it. And so I was. I'm 11 years in, 11 and a half years into caring for my dad, and I just was, like, listening to these other people tell their stories, how they became caregivers, what their day is like. Because our show is kind of like a docu podcast. And so those of us that are in the trenches, we get to kind of go down this road with someone else that is walking the path with us. And for me, even someone. Even as a host, when I listen back to episodes, I feel like I'm not alone. I feel like someone else understands. Someone else gets it. I was talking to one of the caregivers, and we both. I thought I was the only one that did this. We both write notes to our parents. She cared for her mom. I care for my dad. But in the beginning, when, before their Alzheimer's got to the place where notes no longer worked, we would write notes. You are home. You are safe. There is a meal in the refrigerator. Put it in the microwave for a minute, 30, make sure you turn the light off. You know, just whatever. The thing is, we would just write notes. And that was what carried my dad for a lot of years. When I was still working, he was still able to read the note and go, okay, I gotta put this in.
- [11:25]
A
I gotta remember that, right?
- [11:26]
B
I gotta do that. I gotta take my pill. So he used to be able to do that. And so I thought I was the. You know, I thought I was the only one that was putting notes all around the house. But then I found out she was doing it too. And I was like, oh, wow. So that's. It's a commonality and a community that you build. And I hope that if you can't find it or haven't yet found it in your life, squeezed can be that safe space for you as you're in the middle of your journey, where you.
- [11:49]
A
Actually feel seen and, and heard and heard and valued. Because, like, to me, caregivers are like, it's service. It's like godlike.
- [11:58]
B
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [12:00]
A
I want to talk about your father. So you've been a caregiver for your father, Omar, for the last 11 years?
- [12:06]
B
Yes.
- [12:07]
A
And you said that you noticed something off about him. Can you walk us through the events that led you to bring him under your care and ultimately step off from your job and become his full time caregiver?
- [12:21]
B
Yeah, it was, Well, I think 2012 or 13, I believe. And he was in Ohio and he was working. My dad was the head engineer at a middle school, so he was a custodian that took care of the boilers and made sure that the school didn't explode when they turned the heat on and all of that. But he also was the head custodian and had been for 30 years. He was beloved at his middle school and was always the one that knew where everything was. And he started forgetting if the trash cans had been brought in from outside or he was forgetting when the boiler was turned on. And he had an incident where he, one of the, one of the guys that worked under him said, well, I didn't do that. And it was something that my dad had done but didn't remember doing. And they went and looked at the cameras and my dad had done it. And it was like, he was like, I had no recollection. So that was my first inkling that something was wrong. Then as time went on and he was retiring, he lost all of his retirement papers. I'd flown back to Cleveland to help him get all of his paperwork and everything settled for his retirement. And by the time I left him and had gone to the airport, he had misplaced this binder with everything. It had like his Social Security card and it had everything in it. And I was like, this is not like him. He thankfully found it. But that was another thing. And the third thing that was like this, something's wrong. I was visiting my Aunt Mickey, may she rest in peace. And my dad was coming to see Mickey. And my dad had been coming to Mickey's house my entire life. He got lost coming to Mickey's house. And I'm like, you've driven here before I was even born. So that made me realize something was wrong. So that was when I decided as soon as Community is canceled, I'm going to Cleveland immediately. I'm packing them up and I'm bringing them. And Community got canceled on a Friday. By Sunday, I was in Ohio packing my dad up and moved him back. And so maybe two months later, Community got picked up for one more season and I realized I could not take care of my dad and do 16 hours a day. So that's when I asked for permission to be released from my contract. And they did. And that's when it was me and daddy, you know, full time.
- [14:19]
A
I was watching an interview of you, I think on Tambord hall, and she was asking, you know, culture's really important. And you're like, what we do? We take care of our people. Same in my culture, right? It's like Indian people. It's like, you're sick, you're moving in, right? Like there's no dropping you off to anywhere, right? We don't do that because that's what family means.
- [14:41]
B
Right?
- [14:41]
A
And so you didn't even think about this for a second?
- [14:44]
B
Didn't even.
- [14:44]
A
Even though you were in the height of your career successful show, it wasn't even. You didn't even think about it for a second?
- [14:50]
B
Didn't think about it.
- [14:51]
A
Talk about that.
- [14:51]
B
You know, my thing is, you know, my dad taught me how to use a spoon. You know, if I can't, if I can't return the favor, what am I doing? And also in, I was gonna say in black, in the black culture, but it really is any culture where there's a drop of melanin, Black, Latino, Indian, like, we, we take care of our people. We don't believe in just pushing someone into a home and never seeing them again until you get that horrible call. And it was a no brainer. And the thing is, I had him with me for 11 years up until four months ago. He had a fall. He fell and broke his hip. And then because of the dementia, he never regained the ability to walk. And I could not, it would have been 24 hour round the clock care that I could not provide. And it was a social worker that, bless his heart, his name is Daniel. Bless my soul with this, because I was like, well, I'm just gonna take a class and I'm gonna learn how to flip his body. I'm gonna learn how to do the cleaning, I'm gonna get. You know, I just started buying stuff for the, like, I was Prepared to move into 24 hour care for my father in the home from me. And he said, can I just ask you a question? I said, yeah. He said, how do you think your father time would be best spent with your father at this stage of his, his illness? Do you think he'd rather have you as his nursemaid or as his daughter? And I said, he would rather have me as his daughter. And he said, and let me ask you this, he said, it's very clear that no one can love your father more or better than you. But is there someone that could possibly care for him better than you? And I was like, oh, Daniel, you dirty dog, Daniel, dirty dog. And I realized, and I had to admit that at the stage he had reached, yes, there are hundreds, thousands of people that could care for him better than me. Never love, but care for him. And so he said, so why don't you take the time now and the energy that you have and find him the best facility. And so I was, I knew that it would not be some big place. So I found out about boarding cares, which are amazing. The right one is amazing. Boarding cares are in a home, they're not in a building or facility. There's boarding cares on residential streets all around you. And you may not even know that that's what they are. And they're like a small home that has maybe three or four bedrooms and one or two patients in each room. And I found a great one 15 minutes from my house. My dad has his own room that rivals the room that I had for him here. He has 24 hour care from two women and the owner. So there's three women that are always around my dad and there's I think three other men. It's all male board and care. There's three other men that are there. So he has camaraderie with friends when he's mentally able to. He's got his own private room with his own phone and his, I mean his own television, his own bed. And it's beautiful and it's safe and it's clean and every time you go over it smells like Armenian coffee and lasagna. Like Lala being the back whipping up. And anytime I visit, she decides I'm her caregiver too. Lala coming like she's bringing coffee and crudite and it's literally a beautiful space for him. And so when I have to travel, I'm not scared anymore. I'm not worried about if he's taken care of. He is well taken care of. And I Can just go over three or four times a week, sit with him for hours and just be his kid, which has been really great.
- [18:10]
A
How blessed are you to have been able to have that time.
- [18:14]
B
So blessed.
- [18:14]
A
Take care of your father. So blessed gave you life and that. We live in this culture where we don't give people that. What does it say about us where we don't take care of our elderly and our young? Like, and that isn't the. That isn't the expectation. You know, I was like looking and reading about you and your career when you decide to leave community to take care of your dad. I'm sure you were nervous and said, is this the end of everything? But in some ways it was the beginning of so much.
- [18:45]
B
You know, it's funny, I did not think it was the end of anything. I honestly did not care even if it was. I'm just a different chick in that regard. Like, I grew up single family home, single parent home. And my dad was always in my life. And my mom and dad were divorced. So I grew up in the house with my mother. So even getting my dad was the first time I'd ever lived in my house with my father. Cause they got divorced when I was like 1 years old. Wow. So that. But it never. Because of growing up without a lot. I've always been a good steward over my money. I have a college degree. I always joke and say McDonald's is always hiring. And it is. And I don't have ego about myself or my career. So I. If someone pulls up to the McDonald's drive thru and sees me on fries one day and they say, are you Yvette Nicole Brown? I will say yes. And did you want salt or not? Like, it's not. I'm not embarrassed about having to work on honest days, you know, work, you know. And the other side of it is I save money. And so I was prepared to use whatever I'd saved to care for my dad until I couldn't. And then if I had to get a job, I would get a job. It's just, you know, what this means for me as an actress. I never thought about it. I still don't think about it. I make my decisions based on if it's the right thing to do or not. And even in regards to how vocal I am politically, I have people that are like, oh my God, aren't you scared? I'm not scared if I lose everything I have, but I'm on the right side of history, then it was supposed to happen. I have this platform to use it. There's no point in me having this platform if I'm not gonna flap my big old gums about what's important. I really don't think about what the fallout is if I'm doing the right thing. But it's been I've always said it's the best tough thing I've ever done or the toughest best thing I've ever done. I would not change the 11 years I had him in my care. I would not. I would not give up the time that I had with them for the world.
- [20:50]
A
It's easy to feel lost today. One thing that always helps me Amazing mentors. I love learning from Mindy Kaling, Martha Stewart and Esther Perel on Masterclass if you want insights that make your life better, you need Masterclass. With Masterclass you can learn from the best to become the best. With plans starting at $10 a month billed annually, you get unlimited access to over 200 plus classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs and more. With Masterclass, you get thousands of bite sized lessons across 13 categories that can fit into even the busiest of schedules. Here's the class I think you midlifers will love as much as I did. Deepen your relationships at work and home with Esther Perel and take care of your gut, brain, skin and more with science based tips from leading experts. And the classes really make a difference. Three in four surveyed members feel inspired every time they watch Masterclass. 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You'll get to listen to candid conversations about people's fears and hopes around money. The conversations can get emotional, but they're always practical. I checked out the episode about motherhood and money during menopause on what should I do with my money and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I've never felt more seen about my anxieties on how to save for mine and my kids future. I've noticed that as I enter midlife I began experiencing growing stress and anxiety about every financial decision I have made and this is a universal experience amongst women. I learned so much about how to rethink my stress and where to look for financial help. What are you waiting for? Find what should I Do with my Money on your podcast player and feel more supported when it comes to talking about money. Armoire makes Getting dressed easy With a clothing rental membership from Armoire, build the perfect wardrobe with brands that are high quality, unique and recommended just for you. All you have to do is take a five minute style quiz and select items from your dynamic personalized closet. The styles show up at your door in as little as two days. Then when you're ready for new clothes, just swap them out for more new to you styles. I never have time to just go shopping or change my wardrobe every season and I found myself uninspired by my closet day after day, which is why I'm happy I found Armoire. I could easily change my wardrobe without taking extra time off my schedule and be pleasantly surprised by their styling choices. I always feel like I have something new and exciting to wear. Armoire allows you to rent high quality designer clothing for every occasion and then send it back. Whether you're planning your outfit for a date night, packing for a conference, or in need of a gown for a black tie event, you will be the best dressed person in the room without ever having to brave a fitting room with fluorescent lights. Trust me, your overly cramped closet and the environment will thank you. And whether you're in between sizes, need something that fits comfortably one week and a bit looser the next, or just want to feel good in your clothes as your body changes, Armoire offers a flexible solution. You don't have to worry about outgrowing them in a few months. Simply swap for the next size or style whenever you need to. Plus, I get access to designer clothing for a fraction of the cost instead of spending $300 on a dress I'll wear once I rent it and a few other things for a fraction of that. It's like having a rotating closet of luxe pieces without the guilt of overspending. Fashion math is finally in my favorite Right now, my listeners can give Armoire a try and get up to 50% off their first month. That's up to $125 off. Just visit Armoire Style Midlife. That's Armoire Style a R M O I R E Style Midlife. To get up to 50% off your first month and never worry about what to wear again, try Armoire. I want to talk to you about your life outside of caregiving. Sure. You recently got married. Congratulations.
- [26:45]
B
Well, getting married, it hasn't happened yet. It's coming.
- [26:48]
A
You're getting married.
- [26:49]
B
It's imminent.
- [26:50]
A
It's imminent. Did you get the dress?
- [26:52]
B
I have the dress.
- [26:52]
A
You got the dress?
- [26:53]
B
I have the dress.
- [26:54]
A
You got the place?
- [26:54]
B
I got the place. We got the dress. We got the entrees that we're serving to the people that come. We've got the music and the dance floor. We've got it all. It's literally imminent. So. Yeah.
- [27:05]
A
So how did you and your husband meet?
- [27:07]
B
We actually knew each other when we were in our 20s. We were in acting class at Church Faithful Central Bible Church, shouted out in Inglewood. And he was married at the time and we were just really, really good friends. And he ended up moving. He and his wife and had moved back to New York and I lost touch with them for like 25 years, I think. And they got divorced and he started, unbeknownst to me, started sending me DMs on Instagram, like, you know, great job, or hope you're doing well and not trying to get at me. Just. Just trying to rekindle a friendship. Cause we had a really great friendship. And then maybe a year into that. Cause I didn't know who he was. His name wasn't his name, and his face was some weird cartoon. And I didn't. It was just a nice. He was just a nice man. I didn't know. Cindy was like, you're like, who's this?
- [27:50]
A
Who's this meme DMing me.
- [27:52]
B
Exactly. And then my mom passed sadly. And he knew how close I was with my mom. And so then his messages, his DMs. Got to be like, I'm just checking on you. How you doing? You. How are you? And I wrote back. I was like, who are you? Like, what is this? Who are you? And he was like, it's Tony Davis. And I was like, tony? And my heart went boom, boom. And I was like, wait a minute. And we just started talking. And that was two years ago. We started talking, and first it was, you know, a couple times a week. Then it was, you know, every day. And then it was FaceTiming every day, all day. And then we both looked up and was like, wow, you're my person. So he's my person.
- [28:29]
A
I. I look, I watched you all on getting grilled with Curtis Stone. And I could tell, you know, it was just like, you're so cute.
- [28:35]
B
Yeah.
- [28:36]
A
You said other that you want to be an inspiration to women in their 40s and 50s not to settle. I have a lot of friends in my or, you know, who are in their 40s and who haven't found the one. And it's hard.
- [28:49]
B
Yeah, it is. Listen, I was 50, 50, 51, and hadn't found the one and had decided my natural set point is joy. I'm not gonna be miserable. I refuse. So I had decided that, you know, God had given with both hands in so many areas of my life. I'm like, I would be greedy and also just hateful to be mad at him because love wasn't, you know, on my list of things to have. Everybody doesn't get it, you know? And it's not like my life was horrible as a single woman. And that's the other thing is Tracee Ellis Ross always talks about it, too, and I respect her greatly. For the longest time, it was me and. Me and Tracy flying this flag. It is not. Is not. You're not wrong or missing or lacking. If you're a single Woman without kids, over 40 or 50. It. Sometimes love happens, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you make decisions when you're younger that you. You. You spent too much time with the wrong one. There's a lot of reasons, but I think that we're doing every woman a disservice when we tell her that she only has value if she has a husband and children. I just think that's so unfair. There are. There are some women that don't want to have kids. There's some women who can't have kids. There's some women that don't want to get married. They just want to. I have a. I have a professor, a college professor who never had kids and never married. And she wanted to spend her life traveling the world, and she has been to every single country and just about every single city of note in the world, and she is happy and fulfilled. And I defy anybody to say that she wasted her life. So, you know, so I am grateful that my perfect match finally was able to be in my life. But I was really great, you know, when I was single. But that said, I would have been in a much more horrible place in life had I said yes to one of them knuckleheads I was dating before tone. So the. So the message is, don't just grab somebody because you feel like your time is running out, or do you feel.
- [30:48]
A
Like you have to meet society's expectations of what success is.
- [30:51]
B
You'll regret that. You will regret that. You will not regret being single your entire life if you. You live a full, rich life, but you will regret just grabbing somebody because it. This musical chairs and the music is ending. Don't do that. Don't do that.
- [31:04]
A
So how was dating in midlife? Were you on the apps for your friends setting you up? Like, what was it?
- [31:09]
B
Oh, it's horrible. Yeah, I was on. I was on the. I was. Have been on just about every app. I think I might still be on the apps because when I abandon something, I just walk away. I don't even think I took my face off. I might have an inbox full of, hey, hey, how you doing? You know, it's all just, hello, hello, beautiful, you know, whatever. So, yeah, I was on the apps. I made a couple of friends on the apps. There's a couple of guys that I matched with that were not the match for me. But I still talk to some of them. They still reach out. One of them reached out last week. We were talking about the election, but I just didn't find my guy, like it just. And because my guy was in New York, and for a long time, he was married to somebody, so that's why I didn't have love in my life. I realize that now. I think everything is in divine order. And. And let me be clear, because I joke about this when I talk about it, but I want to be clear. I was not pining for Tony. I was not. You know, I had lost touch with Tony. Tony would cross my mind in the sense that, oh, he was a really nice guy, or I would. I would gauge other guys against, like, oh, he's not as funny as Tony, or he's not as cute as Tony. Because there were a couple of friends that knew that I thought Tony was great back in the day. But I don't want anyone to think that I'm sitting here like, you know, with a voodoo doll, putting pins in his wife's. You know, it wasn't like that. It was a wonderful surprise that he returned to my life and that we ended up finding love. It was just so surprise.
- [32:31]
A
Do you have any advice for midlifers? Cause I do feel like a lot of my friends who are on the apps or just generally trying to meet somebody, it's like, it's harder for the very perception, right, that suddenly the older we get, we're no longer attractive, we're no longer beautiful, we're no longer relevant.
- [32:45]
B
And I think I feel like, though. Like, just like I said before, you get what you expect in this life. And so if you've decided that you've lost your value because you're over 40, then that is the reality that will hit you. I think we hit our stride when we're in our 40s. I think we just. And beyond. I think we just get better and better and better. My advice would be. And this is probably going to anger some people, because it used to anger me when people would say this. But when you meet your person, you absolutely know. And I'm like, what is the knowing? Like, they would say it all the time. You just know. And I promise you, there's. This is the best example I can give. When I was dating knuckleheads, anytime they text me or didn't call or they said something that was vague, I would go to my brain trust, my group, My group text y'.
- [33:32]
A
All.
- [33:32]
B
He sent me this. And what does this mean? And he said this. And why did he. I was always talking to my. My female friends. Why is he doing this? And some of my male friends. What does this mean? When it is your person, you do not have to ask any questions. You do not wonder one because they will be very clear and very. They're coming for you. You will feel the push of this person wanting to spend time with you. They want to call you, they want to see you. There's not this, you know, them disappearing for a week at a time or they, you text them and it takes them 20 hours to text you back. No, no, no, no. When it's your person, I don't care where you are. In the process, when me and Tony were just friends. If I text Tony, Tony texts me back. If I called Tony, Tony called me back. If I asked Tony a question, Tony answered the question. There was no. I didn't have to ask anybody what he meant because I could go, Tony, what you mean?
- [34:20]
A
He'd go.
- [34:21]
B
This is what I mean. You know what I mean. Or he was so clear that I didn't have a question as to what he meant. So it's, it's really that. It's just easy. It's almost the same as if you meet a friend. Ever meet a new person and you, you really, really want to be their friend and you, they. You feel like they running from you, you know? Well, do you want to go to lunch? I can't do lunch. But maybe next week you reach out. Next week? How about today? Oh, I don't know. You would not try too much longer with a friend like that. But somehow when you add the I like you to it, then the person that's basically running from you, you're chasing, There should be no chase. You both want to be there. You both are. Like, Tuesday? Sure, I'd love to see you again. Wouldn't you want to go tomorrow?
- [35:01]
A
Yes. Especially when you're grown. Right? Like you think the games should be done.
- [35:05]
B
The games are done. And listen, this goes for the young people too. I don't think it needs to be that hard when you're young either. You find someone whose weirdness fits your weirdness. Cause me and Tony are weirdos. We're really weird. Like just silly, fun loving, crazy people. So I can't imagine that there's anybody on this earth that's better fitted for my particular silliness than that man. And I think he would say exactly the same. We're both just crazy in the best way.
- [35:30]
A
Were people in your family, like, pressuring you guys to get engaged for a long time? No, we grown.
- [35:35]
B
No. And me and Tony are grown. And me and Toni got engaged quickly. Like, I think we were talking the other day. I don't remember. We don't remember when we were like, you wanna be boyfriend, girlfriend? Or I don't think we ever said it. We just knew that we were each other's person. And with the engagement, I think we were only dating cause I don't remember the date. I think we were only dating like four or five months officially before he asked me. And now it's been a year that we've been engaged and we're getting married soon. So it just doesn't take. I mean, I've done six, seven years with somebody liking somebody, pining for somebody, thinking that somebody's the right one. If he takes just one day, he's going to realize, no, no baby, don't, don't do that to yourself. If it's the right one, they know and you know. You just know.
- [36:32]
A
Remember when life felt a little lighter, when the biggest Decision was which CD to pop in your Discman? The 90s Cruise is your chance to hit pause on the grind and actually start living it. From January 25th through 30th, 2026, set sail onboard Celebrity Constellation, leaving from Tampa and heading to Nassau and Key West. Start the new year with adult Spring Break energy. Five days where you're not a parent, partner or a professional first, you're just you dancing, laughing and living in the moment. Experience the sunshine, wild themed nights and concerts from tlc, Sugar Ray, better than Ezra, En Vogue and more. All inclusive so your food, drinks and entertainment are taken care of. It's not just nostalgia. Sure, it's the music you love, but it's also about stepping into joy, freedom and memories that remind you who you are beyond the daily grind. Head to the 90scruise.com midlife to book now and use code MIDLIFE for $250 off new reservations. Sometimes I wish I had a personal sommelier to guide me to find the best wines I normally wouldn't be able to access. I get so overwhelmed at the store trying to pick the right wine when so many feel like a complete wrong fit to my palate. Nothing beats a quality wine, but where do I find them? Don't settle for ordinary wine. We deserve better. That's why I use some sations. Samsation's expert team seeks out incredible wines from top independent producers. Bottles you won't find in stores and shelves. These aren't mass produced wines. They're handcrafted with care, using pure ingredients and meticulous winemaking. Their team of sommeliers curates the selection so you're getting wines that redefine what exceptional tastes like. Whether you want a single bottle, a guided tasting experience, or an entire wine club membership, Sommsation makes it easy to elevate your wine experience. You're not just giving wine, you're giving their next favorite bottle. Plus, they have a massive online wine shop with hundreds of hand selected bottles plus curated wine club options. If you love discovering new favorites, want to go deeper. Somsation offers virtual tastings, private tastings and even sommelier services to make your experience even more special. Shop their wines@somsation.com mysocalledmidlife you know what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. While you're planning beach trips, barbecues and three day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. That's why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. With Mint, you can get the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. So while your friends are sweating over data, overages and surprise charges, you'll be chilling, literally and financially. 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Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. I don't know about you, but I've always struggled with burnout and focus. This is such a common experience for so many of us, but what we don't realize is that sometimes the difficulties you go through might be something deeper. It might be time to explore what it means to be neurodivergent. If that's where you're at, I want to tell you about another podcast you should check out. It's called Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson. Each episode, Ray speaks with a different expert, whether they're a scientist, doctor, or researcher, to dive into some of the big questions and headlines around mental health and well being from an ADHD lens. They talk about things like can you really hack your dopamine? And what parents need to know about the MAHA report. I checked out a few episodes and was so impressed by how they broke down adhd. I thought I knew what ADHD was, but hyperfocus taught me the misconceptions, what to look out for with kids with adhd, and even trace back the history of how women have been underrepresented in ADHD diagnosis. As a parent and midlifer, I feel better equipped to understand what it really means to have ADHD and how to support those around me who are neurodivergent. If you're curious about adhd, make sure to listen to Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson. Search for Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson in your podcast Apple. That's Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson. Can I ask you something? Do you think your experience caring for your father also taught you some lessons that allowed you to see this relationship so clearly?
- [42:06]
B
You know, if it did, it would be like a wax on, wax off, Karate Kid moment where I learned something that I didn't know I was learning. What I do know about living with. Having my father live with me for the first time ever is I really got to see what men are like up close in a, you know, when they need you. Like my dad is, you know, he needed me. So he was very vulnerable. And so it changed the type of man, the type of relationship that I wanted to have with a man. Like, I wanted vulnerability. I don't need the strong, silent, you know, stoic alpha male energy. And that's not saying that Tony's not a strong man. He's very strong, but he's also very in touch with his emotions. He uses his words. He's a kind, loving man in the same way my dad is a kind, loving man. So in a wax on, wax off type of way, my dad might have been mirroring the type of man that I ultimately would fall for. Because you just want someone that's kind. And I tell women now and young girls now, yeah, you want him. He's cute or he's tall or whatever your little list Is if number one is not kind, you are doing yourself a disservice. You want a kind man more than anything. I promise you.
- [43:20]
A
I'm still with you. I married a kind man. I mean, he is just nahal. My husband never says a single bad word about anybody.
- [43:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. Now let me say this. Tony's from the Bronx. So there's a moment you get on that Bronx side. Just like, I'm from east Cleveland. I'm lovely and kind, but you don't want to meet east Cleveland. So there's been times when the Bronx has got to come out. But if you ain't on his bad side, Tony's lovely.
- [43:44]
A
I want to ask you something. How do you make time for yourself?
- [43:47]
B
What's that? I don't know.
- [43:50]
A
That's the wrong answer.
- [43:52]
B
I know it is. And honestly, self care, I like, I was. I had to go to the doctor recently. I have diabetes. Everybody I've talked about it. And you know, they do like a neuropathy, neuropathy test. I hope I said that right. And they, you know, stick little pins, little tiny needles in your toes to make sure you can feel the little needle prick. And I forget every time I go to my doctor, I forget that, you know, at a certain point of the year we have to do that. And he was like, can you take your shoes off? I was like, oh God. Cause I hadn't had a pedicure. I haven't had a pedicure in lord knows how long. And I was like, doctor, I'm so sorry you about to look at these toes. So I don't, I don't have a self care regimen where it's like every other week I get my nails done or I go get my massages or I sleep and I drink some wonderful chamomile tea and I go to bed. I just don't have it. I don't know how to do it. And that's something a lot of caregivers I think would say because we're so outwardly focused. I think to be a caregiver, you have to be outwardly focused. Even amongst our cultures, we're all loving and whatever, but everybody in the family ain't bringing somebody in the house. Somebody's gonna bring the person in, but everybody ain't. So those of us that do choose to do it, I think that we're outward facing and often to our detriment. So honestly, don't. I don't know.
- [45:04]
A
Everyone comes last in my family. I mean, it has to be like my back's gotta give out or something physically has to go wrong. Where I'm like, oh, yeah, same.
- [45:13]
B
Which is not good. I wanna tell you. And I'm telling myself that's not good, but it's the truth.
- [45:19]
A
Well, we're making commitments. You're gonna do something for yourself this week. Go get a pedicure.
- [45:22]
B
How better? Cause listen, these. Who have these hooves over here.
- [45:26]
A
Does Tony take care of you? Do you let him take care of you?
- [45:28]
B
Oh, does he take care of me? This man is. You know, I always feel like. And this is the other way. You'll know, ladies and gents, the person will love you the way the Lord loves you. You know, the way Tony loves me. It is. If Jesus himself was like, let me. Come on, let me make you some tea. Let me talk to you. You know, he's so beautiful.
- [45:48]
A
Yeah.
- [45:48]
B
And there's something about Tony, you know, I don't. They talk about regulating your nervous system and some of that is a little too shishi poo poo for me. Two stars in the sky for me. But I do believe that when I am having a moment where I'm just crazy, like life is just lifing, if I can get to Tony and get a hug from Tony, I am great. And Tony, sometimes he'll see me and he'll just hold his arms out and I go in and give him a hug and he just holds me and it's. And right when he's in there, because I had a bad day and then I felt like the traffic was. And I need. And he'd be like, let it out, just get it out. And then once I'm back to normal, he's like. He's like my battery pack. He's like my. He's like my USB charging station. That's the best way I can say it. And, you know, I hope that I'm that for him as well. But that literally is one of the. That's how you know you're with your person because they just. They energize you and recharge you and they calm you down and, you know, all of those things.
- [46:44]
A
I do the same thing. I do a hug and then he'll say, release.
- [46:46]
B
Yeah.
- [46:47]
A
And I'll just.
- [46:48]
B
Yep, that's it. That's it. Now he doesn't tell me to release, but my body just naturally just goes. And it's like, everything is right. Even if nothing is right in the world, Everything is right in the world in that moment.
- [47:00]
A
I don't know if it's a hug it's like a game changer kind of.
- [47:02]
B
It's a game changer hug. And that's, and listen, that's what happens when it's your person or, and not just your person. If it's, if it's the people that love you, it could be your best friend, it could be your brother or sister, it could be your mom or dad, it could be your great love. But a hug from these particular people is just different. You know, it's just a different thing.
- [47:21]
A
So I just want to close with. Is there any advice, even though you didn't take it, that you'd give another woman who's juggling caregiving work relationships?
- [47:31]
B
You know, it's the same thing that people tell me, you know, you have to find you got to put your oxygen mask on first. And you know, I have not learned how to do it, but I do know that it is the right thing to do. So that means also say no to some things. You know, you can't do everything for everybody. Like I understand that need to just be all things to all people. But we can't be. So you have to remember that.
- [47:55]
A
Amen.
- [47:56]
B
Amen.
- [47:56]
A
Thank you so much. Thank you for this conversation. I think it's gonna really. People need to hear this.
- [48:02]
B
I hope so. Hope it helps some people.
- [48:04]
A
It definitely. Yvette Nicole Brown is an actress, podcast host and daughter. You can listen to her podcast squeezed wherever you're listening right now. I love that Yvette has stopped people pleasing in her 50s, but I'd also love to see her go get that pedicure. Do something for herself. She deserves it. And that goes for all of you who are listening out there. Take care of you too. Okay, see you time next. Next week there's more of my so called Midlife with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Midlife advice that didn't make it into the show. Subscribe now. In Apple Podcasts, I'm your host Reshma Sajani. Our producer is Claire Jones. This series is sound designed by Ivan Ivan Korayev. Our theme was composed by Ivan Kurayev and performed by Ryan Jewell, Ivan Koraev and Karen Waltock. Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lepore. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova. Kramer Ceres consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in midlife you can submit your story to be included in this show@speakpipe.com midlife follow my so Called Midlife wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Bye. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer.
- [50:30]
B
And producer in Hollywood.
- [50:32]
A
Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. I'm Hasan Minhaj and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian.
- [50:45]
B
So I could trick important people into.
- [50:46]
A
Coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are.
- [50:52]
B
Way too afraid to ask.
- [50:53]
A
People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy? Outrageous.
- [51:00]
B
Parenting expert Dr. Becky how do you.
- [51:03]
A
Skip consequences without raising a psychopath? That's a good question. Listen to Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know from Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.