Revisit: Turning Fear Into Focus with Christina Koch

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Episode: Revisit: Turning Fear Into Focus with Christina Koch
Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Reshma Saujani (A)
Guest: Christina Koch (B) – NASA Astronaut
Producer: Lemonada Media

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Main Theme

In this inspiring and candid conversation, Reshma Saujani interviews NASA astronaut Christina Koch about ambition, midlife fulfillment, overcoming fear, and the importance of relationships. Koch, who holds the record for the longest single spaceflight by a woman and will soon attempt to become the first woman to orbit the Moon, shares insights on thriving in midlife, turning fear into focus, and intentionally prioritizing personal connections—even from space. Both women reflect on sustaining ambition, embracing humility, and redefining success as they grow older.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Midlife Perspectives and Ambition

[05:24–07:09]

• Reshma opens with the classic midlife question: is it a peak, or do you miss your youth?
• Christina: “Life gets better every year... as long as there was something I could think of that year that I did that I’m proud of, I would never be sad about getting a year older.” (05:40)
• Christina sees midlife positively, emphasizing job satisfaction, hobbies, and her relationships.
• Both discuss how age intersects with ambition; for Reshma, age once felt like “crushing up against the dream.”

2. Life Is Long: Redefining the Pace of Success

[07:09–12:35]

• Christina never had one defining moment of wanting to be an astronaut—it was an ever-growing dream.
• Her mantra: “Life is long,” opposed to society’s “life is short.”
  • Christina: “A year, I’m going to turn 26 somewhere, and it might as well be at the South Pole...” (10:37)
• She quit her job at NASA to live at the South Pole for a year, surprising peers.
• Christina suggests fulfillment comes from “find[ing] the thing you can do the slowest and still be happy and fulfilled...”
• Host draws parallels to Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson’s “bloom where you’re planted” philosophy.

3. Navigating Ambition and Acceptance

[12:35–14:11]

• Both reflect on the discipline and acceptance required to balance striving for achievements without rushing.
• Christina: “If you were meant to become [an astronaut], then those [other] things will actually turn you into the person that can become that.” (12:35)

4. Representation and Records in Space

[13:57–17:47]

• Christina set records for length of spaceflight and participated in the first all-female spacewalk.
• She credits systemic change and team effort rather than individual achievement:
  • “We now live in a world where those things can happen... the people setting our direction have decided that they’re worth doing.” (14:11)
• On meeting young girls:
  • Recounts emotional encounters, including one where a young girl looked up at her in awe while she was in her spacesuit.
    • Christina: “I just smiled back at her and I remember thinking like, you can do this.” (17:18)

5. Turning Fear Into Focus

[22:52–25:07]

• Describes her first spacewalk—her heart raced not at launch, but seeing the black void outside the airlock.
  • Christina: “I try to channel [fear] into focus.” (23:51)
• Technique: She prepares by thinking through the worst-case scenario and her first two steps in response.
  • “Just spending that nervous energy on something that will benefit me rather than detract from what I’m doing.” (24:19)

6. Celebrating Achievements Mindfully

[26:15–27:37]

• After her spacewalk, celebration was both communal (dinner with the crew) and personal (connecting with her husband).
• Christina reflects on how women often under-celebrate their accomplishments.

7. Everyday Life on the Space Station

[27:41–29:22]

• Life in space is busy and routine-driven—exercise, cleaning, maintaining connections with loved ones.
• Christina called Reshma from the space station while reading her book “Brave, Not Perfect” for a NASA initiative.

8. Returning from a Major Mission—Confronting the 'Now What?'

[29:30–32:23]

• Christina admits post-mission malaise:
  • “The real challenge is to find that self-worth on your own and to not let your accomplishments define that.” (31:29)
• Both discuss workaholism, and how as they age, professional success brings less thrill—prompting a search for fulfillment elsewhere.

9. Finding Purpose Beyond Achievements

[33:12–34:24]

• Christina has found new meaning through helping others, mentoring, and service.

10. Upcoming Artemis 2 Mission, Age, and Training in Perimenopause

[35:19–38:26]

• Christina will soon become the first woman to orbit the Moon (Artemis 2, scheduled no later than April 2027).
• She’s adapted her training for perimenopause—less endurance running, more heavy lifting and interval training.
• Adjusts health trends (like intermittent fasting) to fit her changing body.

11. Anxiety, Aging, and Values

[38:26–41:14]

• Both discuss increased anxiety and awareness of mortality with age.
• Christina emphasizes grounding in her “whole self” and values to manage anxiety—her top goal on her last mission:
  • “My number one goal in my year in space was to have a better marriage when I got home.” (40:13)
• She prioritized her relationship with her husband, ensuring their connection stayed strong through intentional and equitable communication.

12. Balancing Ego, Humility, and Receiving Recognition

[42:04–44:02]

• Both share the difficulty of accepting praise while still cultivating humility.
• Christina explains her approach: “It wasn’t about dimming my own light for the world. It was actually about making it brighter by having my whole self be able to approach the situations I was in.” (43:01)
• She’s still considering her next personal goal for her upcoming mission.

13. Redefining Success and ‘Third Acts’

[44:30–46:50]

• Concern about defining self-worth by ever-bigger accomplishments versus finding meaning according to one’s own values.
• Openness to a future “third act” that may not look impressive on paper but will feel fulfilling.

14. Would She Have Done It Differently?

[46:50–48:15]

• Christina: “I’ve never been someone to say I would do something differently because I feel like at every crossroads... I can’t imagine changing anything, maybe except to be kinder to myself and to have figured out the whole value [of] relationships a little earlier.” (47:03)

15. Reciprocal Admiration & Final Reflections

[48:15–49:24]

• Reshma praises Christina’s humility and generosity; Christina returns the compliment.
• Both express gratitude and inspiration drawn from each other’s work and approach to life.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Christina on Aging and Fulfillment:
  “As long as there was something I could think of that year that I did that I’m proud of, I would never be sad about getting a year older.” (05:40)
• On Embracing Experience:
  "Life is long... That has really helped me to savor the moment and to not feel like I need to rush towards anything, even a dream." (10:35)
• On Representation:
  "I do this all the time. When I meet little girls, look them in the eye and say with my eyes, you can do this, you can do what I’m doing, or whatever you want to do." (16:33)
• On Fear:
  “I try to channel [fear] into focus... I think about the training that I’ve had and I think about what’s the worst thing that could happen right now and what are the first two things I would do.” (23:51)
• On Post-Mission Malaise:
  “The real challenge is to find that self-worth on your own and to not let your accomplishments define that.” (31:29)
• On Seeking Purpose:
  “That satisfaction, not necessarily from almost a dopamine rush of achievement, but something more enduring... helping others, mentoring.” (33:12)
• On Prioritizing Relationships:
  “My number one goal in my year in space was to have a better marriage when I got home.” (40:13)
• On Humility:
  “It [low ego] wasn’t about dimming my own light for the world. It was actually about making it brighter by having my whole self be able to approach the situations I was in.” (43:01)
• On Regrets:
  “I can't imagine changing anything, maybe, except to be kinder to myself and to have figured out the whole value relationships a little earlier.” (47:03)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:24] - Midlife attitude and reframing aging
• [10:35] - “Life is long” philosophy; leaving NASA to winter in Antarctica
• [14:11] - Breaking records and representation in space
• [16:33] - Powerful moment with a young girl after a spacewalk
• [22:52] - First time stepping into the vacuum of space
• [23:51] - Turning fear into practical focus techniques
• [27:41] - Calling Reshma from the International Space Station
• [29:47] - Returning home: post-mission malaise and redefining self-worth
• [35:19] - Artemis 2 mission, age, and adapting training for perimenopause
• [40:13] - Prioritizing marriage as her biggest goal in space
• [43:01] - Embracing humility without dimming one’s light
• [46:58] - Would she do anything differently?

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Tone and Style

The conversation is honest, warm, thoughtful, and deeply personal—with both participants sharing vulnerabilities as well as triumphs. Christina Koch’s humility, self-reflection, and authentic drive for connection distinguish her story, while Reshma brings empathy, humor, and pointed questions rooted in her own search for fulfillment in midlife.

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For Listeners

Those who haven’t tuned in will walk away with profound motivation and new frameworks for thinking about ambition, success, and meaningful living in midlife. The episode offers rare insights into the psychological side of high achievement, the unique pressures and joys of midlife, and practical wisdom about sustaining relationships and self-worth—whether you’re reaching for the stars or redefining your life’s purpose here on Earth.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Yes.

[A]

And different people have different feelings about how they're feeling about this part of their life. Where are you at? Like are you having the best midlife of your life or are you like missing your youth?

[B]

Yeah, I am actually in the former category. I feel like, life gets better every year. I am really enjoying myself. I feel super fortunate because most of the reasons I can say that are things like, I have great job satisfaction. I love what I get to do. I love that I'm able to still do things. I love hobbies and community service, and I love my partner. And I think that every time I have a birthday, that number definitely means something new. And so what I sort of decided, maybe it was, like, 10 years ago now, was as long as there was something I could think of that year that I did that I'm proud of, I would never be sad about getting a year older. So I've really tried to stick with that, and it's helped a lot.

[A]

I love that because, you know, it's interesting because I felt, you know, I like you. Like, my dream. Your dream was to be an astronaut? My dream was to, like, be a public servant. And I remember when I was, like, 33, before I decided to take the plunge, I remember thinking, like, oh, wait a minute, like, I don't have a lot of time left, right, to make this dream a reality. And so my age was always kind of crushing up against the dream.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Do you think of it that way? Right. Cause you've always wanted to be an astronaut, and I want to talk about, like, when that started, but, like.

[B]

Or.

[A]

And I'm sure you have dreams about where you want to go in space, and every year that goes by is, like, one year that you're. Do you feel, like, closer or further from that dream? Maybe that's the question.

[B]

Such a good question. I don't. I'd have to think to answer that super directly. But I can speak about how I have thought about kind of my life arc. And. And this, I think, contributes to why I do have an overall really good vibe about my mid-40s and 46. And I think it's that when I first got out of college, I'm an explorer, I'm an adventurer. So I love new things, and I do get bored easily. And I remember graduating being like, oh, my gosh, I have to do a job for the next 40 years. And I remember being terrified and petrified. That just sounded, like, way too daunting and super boring. And so my goal, kind of. Actually, maybe not goal, but, like, my plan to combat this came to be my doing other things kind of before I got there, so that I was never doing. I was never just jumping into the rest of my life too early. And so I spent years, as you may know, working all over the planet in really remote places, the Arctic, the Antarctic. And it's not that I was putting off the inevitable, but I was just trying to diversify my experiences on the front end so that I wouldn't jump into something that I might get stuck before it was time to get sick of that thing. And. Yeah. And also just to find something that I could do for a long time and that I still felt fulfillment from God.

[A]

So this really fascinates me because on one hand, I really do understand it and relate. Cause I always say, I pray to God every night. I say, don't give me everything right now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I don't want it all right now because I want to stretch it out. Right. And stretch out the enjoyment and the seeking. And in many ways, like the chase of a dream.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Is also really what keeps me alive. And I think probably what keeps you alive. So I can relate to that. But that also means that you have to have a tremendous amount of faith and confidence that your dream is actually going to come true, because that's what slows down the rush of trying to get there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So where did that come from? And I wanna know, like, what. When was the moment you decided when you were a little girl, Like, I want to be an astronaut.

[B]

That was when I was very young, before I can even remember. I don't actually remember a moment that it happened. I just remember it becoming more and more real as I got older. So as to the question that you just mentioned, I think about this all the time because I do think about time and life passing. And I think the first time that I came to this new way of thinking about life was this phrase that when it came to me, I go back to it all the time. And that is, life is long. People say all the time, life is short. And I think that has its value in certain situations. But life is long has really helped me to savor the moment and to not feel like I need to rush towards anything, even a dream, even a goal. And the first time I came upon that was when I decided to go to Antarctica to winter over at the South Pole, stay for a year of my young life.

[A]

You actually quit your job to go to. So tell us about that.

[B]

I quit a dream job at NASA. I had been working at NASA out of college for a couple years, had my dream job as an engineer at NASA, totally quit to live at the South Pole for a year. And people thought I was crazy and had lost my mind. And I just had to tell myself and them, hey, life is long. A year I'M going to turn 26 somewhere, and it might as well be at the South Pole doing this thing that I've been dreaming of doing. And so this concept that life is long has really helped me to not run too quickly towards anything. I've always worked really hard for things, but I think that this idea that once you achieve one thing, then you should be done and happy and just live happily forever after, that hasn't resonated with me. And I think that instead it is finding something. I used to say, find your passion, but I've kind of wanted to get to the nuances of that, where what I really mean is, find the thing you can do the slowest and still be happy and fulfilled and find meaning every day. What can you do the slowest and still love it?

[A]

I love it. First of all, for all my midlifers, you're saying something, Christina, that Ketanji Justice Jackson said, too. She said, I've learned how to bloom where I'm planted. I love that it's very, very, very similar philosophy to what you're saying. And I think it's so powerful that, like, an astronaut and a Supreme Court justice have two very similar philosophies on how they live their life and how they pursue their dreams, which is slowly, not linearly, and that's how you got there. Like, what? I'm just. I'm, like, meditating on this for a moment because it's really. It's really a lesson that until the two of you kind of express it this way, I've never heard from anyone else before.

[B]

I also don't think I've heard it before. And I love that you drew that connection, because in some ways, Supreme Court and becoming an astronaut are two goals that any sane person would assume they're actually never going to get to. So what do you do in the meantime is, unless you want to set yourself up for being pretty disappointed, you find things you love to do in the meantime, and you pursue those things. If you were meant to become that, then those things will actually turn you into the person that can become that.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that takes a tremendous amount of discipline and acceptance. Right. That I will say, as an ambitious person, I don't always have. There are times when I'm praying and I'm like, all right, come on.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I said, yeah, I don't want it all right now, but I kind of do. Let's hurry it up. Right? Or when something you think is, like, supposed to happen as a next step doesn't happen. You're like, wait, is this all not gonna be? You've accomplished a lot, and it's so badass. You set the record for the longest single space flight by a woman with a total of 328 days in space. You were part of the first female spacewalk, I think. And tell me if I'm getting this wrong. 259 people have walked space, of which 16 have been women.

[B]

That sounds about right. I don't know what the number is right now, but that would be close or not far off for where we.

[A]

Are right now and in the ballpark. Like, how does it feel to set such monumental records?

[B]

Well, I think for me, I try to focus on the system and the people that allowed those records to be set and those first to be done. And it's not necessarily my personal achievement. Yes, I love to work hard and contribute. And it's more about the fact that we now live in a world where those things can happen. And our leadership, the people are setting our direction, have decided that they're worth doing. They've decided that, yes, we want an astronaut corps that looks like the people we represent. We want to take contributions from anyone who's really good and has a dream that they're willing to work really hard to achieve. We're willing to put a team together with people that want to contribute from a lot of different partners, backgrounds. We know that that makes us better, and that makes us more likely to accomplish our missions. And that, to me, is what all those records and firsts mean. They mean that we've made this collective decision to be better by doing it together.

[A]

Yeah. And you meet little girls all the time. You meet probably a lot of my students at Girls who Code a lot of time. And how do you. What do you think that record means to them, and how do you feel? Like it impacts. Right. Many barriers that young women in STEM feel they're facing.

[B]

You know, I have thought about that a lot. And as a person that tries to downplay personal and individual records, I sometimes have to step back because I've been schooled by good people that have told me, hey, these milestones mean something to people. And I've had to learn to accept that. I remember the day I met Sally Ride, and I remember when I shook her hand, she just looked directly into my eyes and she smiled and was happy to meet me. And, I mean, I will never forget. That was a formative memory. And so sometimes I have to remember. Maybe that's what someone feels when they meet me or when they read about something that I've been able to do, and it just allows me to give back to them what she gave to me. And I do this all the time. When I meet little girls, look them in the eye and, and say with my eyes, you can do this, you can do what I'm doing, or whatever you want to do.

[A]

Is that what you feel like when Sally looked at you that way, deeply in your eyes that she was saying.

[B]

To you like, Christina, you can do this 100%. And maybe even more generally, she was saying, I value you and I see you. Actually, yesterday I did an MBL run, which is a spacewalk training in our nbl, which stands for Neutral Buoyancy Lab. It's a gigantic pool. An entire mock up of the International Space Station is in the pool. You spend six hours inside a spacesuit doing your training. And I came out at the end of the day, you're lifted up by a crane out of this pool. And there was a family of three girls there and they came up onto the stand that the crane had lifted out of the water and I was still completely in my spacesuit, full on spacewalking spacesuit. And I reached my hand out and this little girl shook my hand and looked up at me through my visor with the most amazing eyes and just smiled this like, you know, your standard eight year old grin where like half the teeth are kid teeth and half. Just the sweetest thing. And I just remember, I just smiled back at her and I remember thinking like, you can do this. You're making me cry. It was amazing. It was amazing. Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

It is a big moment because, yes, you've trained your whole life to go into space, but more so, it's like everything you've ever done in your life comes together when you're in that airlock. And the one and only time where my heart rate raced on my entire space mission wasn't launch. It wasn't landing. It was the moment. I was in that airlock, about to go out on a spacewalk, and my spacewalk buddy had just opened the hatch. And where there had been, like, normal stuff. We've got a panel of equipment and the hatch. I looked down and there was just this big gaping hole of blackness.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And my heart rate shot through the roof. And, you know, it took a few seconds for me to calm back down, but that was the moment where I Was like, I have to go out there and this.

[A]

Are you thinking, Are you thinking I'm gonna die? Are you thinking, oh, like what are you thinking?

[B]

I was thinking, I can do this. I've been trained for this. And something that I do when I am scared or when those feelings of fear or nervousness do come up is I try to channel them into focus. Which I learned through way back when, even before I became an astronaut, doing things like lead rock climbing. But turning that fear into focus really helps. And another thing that I think about.

[A]

What does that mean? Can you tell me what that means? How do you do that?

[B]

It means that you channel any nervousness into thinking about what you are about to do. And specifically, what does that mean? Because focusing too much on anything can actually just make you more nervous. So for me, that looks like I think about the training that I've had and I think about what's the worst thing that could happen right now and what are the first two things I would do. If I know the first two things I would do from then on, I know my training will take over and I'll just do it. And just spending that nervous energy on something that will benefit me rather than detract from what I'm doing. And sometimes actually that's something like, wiggle your toes, you're alive. You know what you're doing. Yes. You're about to go on a spacewalk and you know what you're doing. It's gonna be fine.

[A]

I love. It's so funny you say that. I remember when I was running for office and I would be going on a train, going like a senior center, and I would just be getting scared, right? Cause I'd never done this before. And I did exactly what you did. I was like, okay, what's worst thing that's gonna happen to me? What's the worst thing? Okay, I'll run, I'll trip, I'll lose. People will laugh at me. And it's almost like once you play out the worst thing, your fears really.

[B]

Do dissipate a hundred percent. And even one, if you make a mistake sometimes, I don't wanna say on purpose, but if you make a point to do something that might not be perfect and everything is still okay, that's another technique to diffuse a lot of that nervous energy. I was joking going into. I forget what it was with my husband. And I said, honestly, I hope I trip on my way up in front of everyone. Cause then I'll just. It will be out there straight away that I am not Trying to, you know, win over anybody with an ego. I am just here to contribute and be a part of this. And it's a normal person. It's almost like a best case scenario. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so how long was the spacewalk?

[B]

The first one that I did was, I think, around seven hours. Maybe seven and a half.

[A]

Seven hours. So you get to walk around for seven hours?

[B]

Yep. You're moving yourself around with your hands, mostly because you're just kind of out there floating. There's handrails, and you're just moving around on the space station. On the outside of the space station. Yep.

[A]

So after you did your first one, how did you celebrate? Because I think one of the things we fail to do, especially as women, is we don't celebrate our wins.

[B]

Mm. Well, after I ate a lot, which is very important. After you spent 12 hours inside the suit, which is the total time we did celebrate, I think we celebrated that weekend. We got together with all the people on the space station, all six of us, including our Russian counterparts, and we had a dinner together, and we said, hey, we did our spacewalk. It happened. And I talked to my partner, my husband, right afterwards, and to see him was really exciting. But I do think you're right. I think that there's a lot of downplaying our accomplishments, not taking the time to actually be proud of them as individuals. And I know I just spent a lot of time talking about taking the focus off of the individual. But there are times where I think that is super important to celebrate the fact that you worked hard, obviously. And I do do that, for sure. Usually in more private moments, but absolutely.

[A]

So for those of you Christina and I met. Because she called me from space.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Tell me if this is right. But you get to pick, like, while you're up there, you got things you want to do, and you get to pick a book that you're reading and an author that is. We're reading Brave, not perfect. And you're like, great. I'd love to talk to Reshma. I got, like, an email from NASA. I was like, is this spam?

[B]

I can't believe.

[A]

Are you kidding me? I was like, where and when? And in a conference room at our Girls who Code office. Like, you called me from the Space center, right?

[B]

That's right. From the space station.

[A]

From space station.

[B]

Literally in space.

[A]

And I had Sean and his little friend Walter join us. They were like, had. No, they were like three or something. Like, they had no idea what was going on, but that. It was like one of the coolest moments like of my life. But how? So how do you entertain yourself while you're there?

[B]

You know, it's like a lot of things people think you are gonna be really bored, but actually we do stay really busy. 12 hour work days. We also clean up. Saturday morning is our cleanup time. So when you think about it, we have a day and a half off ish every week. And by then you're just trying to keep up with your life. Just also like on earth, there's housekeeping things you have to do around the space station. So your to do list builds up. I know this sounds ridiculous, but you're like, oh, I really need to change out all the batteries in the headlamps this weekend. You know, I mean stuff, it just is regular life. A lot of keeping in touch with people and a lot of doing things for people. Trying to find a picture of someone's house or something that'll be meaningful to someone. There's a lot of just trying to maximize your time up there. Very rarely were we bored. In fact, I listened to your book when I would exercise because we do have to exercise every day.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Yeah, so just like we do movie nights as a group. A lot of, you know, team stuff.

[A]

Yeah. So were you sad to come back to Earth? Cause I do find sometimes like when I'm working on something huge and especially like for like decades of your life and then it happens and then I come back and I'm kind of depressed or like I have a little bit of this, like did you feel that way?

[B]

I was not necessarily. You know, I could have stayed on board for longer. I loved it in space. But I also after that long because I was there for a while, I was ready to come home. But I still experienced that malaise when I got back. And for astronauts, it's a little hard to pick apart what part of it is actual just readaptation and all of the things that happen to your body and mind versus the psychological part. Like you're saying of I accomplished this big goal, what next? And how do I define my self worth? And I think that's a big one for me. You know, I mentioned things. I feel really good right now in life, but I recognize that's a huge place of privilege for me because I am doing my dream job. And I think the thing I don't want to leave here without saying that I do and did struggle with what am I doing with my life? Even when I'm out there trying to find the things I'm passionate about trying to find the things that I find fulfilling. It is not always easy to define your own self worth apart from your accomplishments. And I think that's the thing I've really tried to work on in my midlife because I won't be doing this job forever. And I did come back from the space station and have to deal with not having a systematic schedule that I could check off everything I did every five minute increment to tell me I'm worth something, accomplishing something and doing a good job. And that really taught me that the real challenge is to find that self worth on your own and to not let your accomplishments define that.

[A]

I want to unpack that more because that's interesting to me because I sort of. Cause what you're saying is like part of your struggle is to not just be defined as an astronaut and to make sure, right. That you've lived this fulfilling life outside of your professional accomplishments. And that is like, that's really hard, Christina. For me, I'll say, right? I'm a workaholic. I love my work. I define myself in many ways by my work. And again, I feel very grateful, right, that I've gotten to do something that I really, really, really love. And so oftentimes, like if I'm at a temple or I'm making a birthday wish, you know, most of it is oftentimes related to like, what I'm trying to do, right. Like professionally.

[B]

And I do feel like it's really interesting, right.

[A]

Like, I do feel like the older I've gotten, I just don't get. It's honestly one of the things that inspired me started this podcast. Like, I just don't get the same rush out of the success. And I'm kind of like searching for like other things that I can get that same sense of accomplishment. So like, for a while, like I tennis did that for me, right? Like I am. I am now. I was in. I was playing the other day with like this 80 year old woman. She used to be. I mean, she was phenomenal, right? That's amazing. And I said to her, I'm like, gosh, I hope I am half as athletic as you. Right. Like by the time I'm your age. But you could tell that like she made a real commitment. And she said something so beautiful to me, Christina. She said, you know, I now play for my friends who can't play.

[B]

Wow, that's amazing.

[A]

And that gave her purpose.

[B]

Yes. Wow, that's phenomenal.

[A]

Again, purpose that was not related to her job.

[B]

Yep. I love that so much. And to me, it also points towards something that I think is so important about purpose and about, like you're saying, maybe finding the satisfaction not necessarily from almost a dopamine rush of achievement, but something more enduring. And really, to me, that's helping others or doing something for others, whether that's community service, whether that's being an activist for a cause that you believe in, whether that's mentoring, I think that has become the new primary source for me of just a fundamental meaning and fulfillment.

[A]

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You might know us as two of.

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The lead organizers of the no Kings protests.

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[A]

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[A]

So you're part of the crew for the Artemis 2 flight, which is, if successful, which it will be, you will be the first woman to travel beyond low Earth orbit and fly around the moon.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That's amazing. You're supposed to go in 2025. Is it coming up?

[B]

It is. Well, we're hoping that it'll be right after the turn of the year. So the current public date is no later than next April, but we're hoping to do it as soon as possible. And some of those launch windows open up as early as February, so it's no later than next April. So we're really at about the year mark, which I say in aerospace is like a millisecond. So we feel very close.

[A]

I'm coming, so save my ticket.

[B]

You've got an invite, but when you.

[A]

Do this, you're gonna be 46 or 47.

[B]

Oh, probably be 47.

[A]

Okay. So now you're either in perimenopause. About to be in perimenopause. How has your training changed?

[B]

It has changed. I actually am very proud of the fact that our trainers, that are specifically astronaut trainers, they're astronaut strength and conditioning and rehab trainers. They have a program that they've designed for me at my request that really takes into account the changes for perimenopause. So things like being more careful with the really, really long endurance cardio. So they're breaking my heart but I know it's the right thing for lifting heavier weights. What does that mean?

[A]

So did you used to. How much did you do to run.

[B]

Or like big runner? Yes, big runner. So typical race. I'm not an ultra marathoner by any means, but a typical race length of about four hours or so. I love mountain trail running was my thing. I love it. But I don't really do it too much anymore. Variety of reasons. But you know, one of the things is that for, you know, to make sure that you don't encounter bone and muscle loss, you really have to do heavy weightlifting and you also have to do what I've heard. This is all just from what they and I have researched. So I'm certainly not an expert. But changing to do more interval based training, some sort of sprint type workouts. So I think the really the bottom line there is to just stay educated as to how it can change because I probably over trained and did not train as my body changed and needed different things. Another thing is that a lot of the really sort of new things, or maybe they're not new at this point, but things that people do in addition to training, things like intermittent fasting, women have to be a little bit. They have to apply that a little differently. I love intermittent fasting, but as a woman who's in my perimenopause, I am never gonna do it for 18 hours at a time. I'm gonna be careful. It doesn't work.

[A]

It's different.

[B]

It doesn't work right now. Yep, for me it works if I keep it to 10. And I actually really like it for that. I'm not always disciplined about it, but I'm not going to listen to the folks that are saying to do it for extreme things because that's not made for the body that I'm working with.

[A]

Yeah, okay. What about the mind? Because I do also for me my anxiety levels have gone up as and I know it's cause of the hormone drops and so I would be scared shitless big in this confined space and then like, like oh. But I don't know if I could do it at this. I'm just being honest. Right.

[B]

Well I think that is so true. I think as we get older we also are much more Aware of our own mortality, I think that's a completely normal. If I weren't more aware of my own mortality, I think that would be more of an issue. So absolutely, I definitely see that I am faced more with thinking about that in this mission than my first one and probably not only because it's about a thousand times farther to the moon than it is to low Earth orbit. I do think that that's something to come up against. So again I go back to relying on my training, relying on the teams, trust in the teams, and there's something else there. Going back to anxiety but also feeding into this pressure to perform. There's something else there that helps me a lot and that is whole self and what are my values. And if I'm living out my values and I make a couple technical mistakes, I forgive myself a lot quicker and easier than if I'm so focused on being perfect and I don't have that whole self mentality of who am I really? What's the most important thing here? I don't know if we talked about this before, but even on my first mission to the iss I experimented with this and my number one goal in my year in space was to have a better marriage when I got home.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Number one goal. And since I made it my number one goal, I could prioritize around it.

[A]

So what did you do there to come back and have that, like, what were the things that you worked on?

[B]

Throughout training, I made sure to prioritize time with my husband, making sure I understood his love languages and what meant the most to him because I couldn't do it all. I had to be very efficient with how, you know, we grew together and kept our relationship up. So it was really important to understand like what was the most bang for the buck for him, what meant the most to him. Cause it isn't always what's easiest for me to do or what is less time consuming. That was a big one. And then even in orbit, just making sure we had one video call a week and just making sure that it wasn't, you know, we talked equally about what we were doing. It wasn't just let me tell you about space and just a lot of things. I also tried to stay relevant, tried to stay relevant in his life. I pranked him a lot through his friends. So knowing his friends and like, you know, stuff like that.

[A]

Christina, that's amazing because I don't know if I could do would be you like, I think I immediately be like, hey Nahal, I'm in space dude. And I'm freaked out and like, let me tell you what's going on here. Or this is amazing. And this is my moment, my time. I'm in space. And so that's pretty really remarkable that, like, even in what could be seen as your moment, you were focused on him and your relationship.

[B]

That was my number one priority. Yes. And it didn't mean that I didn't focus on other things. Of course I did. But basically it helped me know where to draw that line. It helped me know when my training had gone too far or my time or having that mentality of like, it's all about me. This is my moment right now when that I knew where to draw the line because if it started to negatively affect my marriage, that's when it had gone too far.

[A]

Yeah. It's funny, you, as I'm hearing you, one of the things I'm thinking about is, you know, for as much as long as I've been in the public eye, a big goal of mine is to be low ego. Right. And so there are times where I don't read the comment section, I wouldn't watch myself on video. I don't really read my articles. I'd get uncomfortable if somebody comes up to me and says, Ms. Ajani, thank you so much for your work. And it took time with my coach to be like, no, no, no, take in that love. That is actually say thank you, say thank you. That is a good, that is not going to mess with your own ego. You can still be humble by taking in other people's love. And it's really something I've had, I've had to really learn. So this, it's, it's, I, I, I hear what you're saying is again, such a, a incredible way to practice that low ego humbleness by not making about you, by making it about something else that is important to the both of you and, and your husband, who I know you love so much.

[B]

Absolutely. And I agree with you. It is such a hard line to walk. And I think, especially as a woman, because I want to model humility, but I also want to model not being self deprecating. I want to model being proud of my accomplishments. I want to model owning the fact that I'm really good at what I do. And so that balance is so tough. And I think that, that, that's what maybe worked about that goal for me. And like I said, I kind of considered it an experiment because I didn't know if it was gonna work out, but because it prioritized something that was still important to me, and I still. It actually meant that I could receive maybe more love from my husband. It hopefully worked. So it wasn't about. Not. It wasn't about dimming my own light for the world. It was actually about making it brighter by having my whole self be able to approach the situations I was in.

[A]

Have you picked your thing for your next flight?

[B]

The thing you're gonna work on, My number one goal. Oh, my goodness. I have thought about that. I'm like, I mean, it should just be the same one, right? The number one goal to have a stronger marriage. I feel like that has just become the background goal that's always there. But I have thought about that a lot. I have thought about it. No, okay.

[A]

You don't have to tell me now about that. But it's something that you're thinking of because it feels like. And this is the thing I think that blows me away about midlife. It's like it gets better with age. Meaning it feels like this mission could even be better than the last one. Even though you have more things kind of physically, potentially up against you. Right, right.

[B]

I mean, that's what I would certainly hope. And that's what I think. Like I mentioned, has kept me feeling really good at this point in my life. But if I'm only thinking about the next one's better, the next one's better. I worry that I might be setting myself up if after this mission, things aren't necessarily from the outside appearing to be so grandiose. So that's where I come back to defining success and self worth myself and making sure that things that I find meaningful are held in just as much high regard as things that the media or others might find worthy of celebrating.

[A]

Hmm. Like what? Like, I guess, kind of what you're saying is like, what's your third act? Right after you kind of kick up. Put your astroneau shoes. Do you have shoes? She's like, up on the rack, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's the thing?

[B]

Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. What's next? For sure. And maybe I'm not defining exactly what that is right now, but I'm allowing myself to accept that it could be something that is fulfilling to me, but doesn't necessarily look as impressive on paper. And that is not only. Okay, that's actually what I should be doing.

[A]

Absolutely. I mean, listen, every article I read about, like, the happiest people. Right. Or at the end of life, say, one, it was their relationships. Right. It wasn't the job that they had. It wasn't the title that they had. It was like. It was like the joy they found from their relationships or from gardening or from. You know what I mean? It's like the things that. That we in society don't deem to be, you know. Prestigious.

[B]

Yep, exactly.

[A]

Would you do it differently, though? Because you ch. You spent your life, you've had a fulfilling life, but you chase this, it doesn't get more prestigious. Right.

[B]

Or more.

[A]

More incredible. Like, would you do it differently?

[B]

I think about that a lot, and it's hard. I've never been someone to say I would do something differently because I feel like at every crossroads and every choice along the way, oh, believe me, I've definitely made some bad choices and failures. Definitely plenty of choices I think about and I regret. But it's kind of like the question of someone that says, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be? My answer to that is always, I can live anywhere in the world. And this is where I picked because I always think about it holistically. Like, every factor is a part of that decision. And. And that's where I ended up. And so kind of holistically, looking back, I can't imagine changing anything, maybe, except to be kinder to myself and to have figured out the whole value relationships a little earlier. But in general, no. I feel like, like I said, I successfully put off the rest of my life for long enough that I'm not bored with it yet. And I've got some time after this to do something that I also find meaningful and hopefully to put to good use. Like, you mentioned the fact that people. People look to what we do for inspiration.

[A]

Well, as someone who was, like, proud to call you a friend, you are incredibly kind and incredibly humble and incredibly generous, and it's really. I'm so excited for people to, like, learn more about you. But you're a role model for me. Me and how you show up. Right. Because you could be an.

[B]

Well, the feeling is like. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Like, you could. Right? And. And, like, you're, like, the opposite. And I. I just think. I think it's just remarkable, so.

[B]

Well, thank you.

[A]

So I hope you feel very proud of yourself, because it's almost like those are the people that I love. It's like, how I feel about. How I feel about Katanji, who's also a friend. It's like, those are the people who I love seeing succeed, because it is like, you lead with kindness. And I think that is why God has gifted you and graced you. It's so much blessing.

[B]

So thank you so much. That's the highest compliment I could ever hope for. So I appreciate that and the feeling is mutual. I definitely look to you and everything that you do and especially everything that you fight for in the world and making it a better place. It's extremely inspiring.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you for this wonderful conversation. I can I can't wait to see you lift off.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Thank you so much Christina for joining us today. You can keep up with the progress of Artemis 2 mission on NASA's website. One last thing, thank you so much for listening to my so Called Midlife. If you haven't yet, now's a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content like Zarna Garg talking about what her kids think of her viral stand up comedy career. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com thanks and we're back. Back next week. I'm your host Rashmi Sajani. Our Associate producer is Isara Acevez and our senior producer is Chrissy Pease. This series is sound designed by Ivan Kurayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltok. Our VP of New content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oha Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax, and Jessica Cordova. Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review and let us know how you're doing in Midlife. You can submit your story to be included in the show [e-mail] midlife follow my so Called Midlife wherever you get your podcast or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye. Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, the Sarah Silverman Podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the.

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