← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Revisit: Work-Life Balance Is a Lie with Thasunda Brown Duckett
00:42:14
Loading summary
Transcript52 lines
- [00:01]
A
Armoire makes getting dressed easy With a clothing rental membership from Armoire, build the perfect wardrobe with brands that are high quality, unique, and recommended just for you. All you have to do is take a five minute style quiz and select items from your dynamic personalized closet. The styles show up at your door in as little as two days. Then when you're ready for new clothes, just swap them out for more new to you styles. I never have time to just go shopping or change my wardrobe every season, and I found myself uninspired by my closet day after day, which is why I'm happy I found Armoire. I could easily change my wardrobe without taking extra time off my schedule and be pleasantly surprised by their styling choices. I always feel like I have something new and exciting to wear. Armoire allows you to rent high quality designer clothing for every occasion and then send it back. Whether you're planning your outfit for a date night, packing for a conference, or in need of a gown for a black tie event, you will be the best dressed person in the room without ever having to brave a fitting room with fluorescent lights. Trust me, your overly cramped closet and the environment will thank you. And whether you're in between sizes, need something that fits comfortably one week and a bit looser the next, or just want to feel good in your clothes as your body changes, Armoire offers a flexible solution. You don't have to worry about outgrowing them in a few months. Simply swap for the next size or style whenever you need to. Plus, I get access to designer clothing for a fraction of the cost. Instead of spending $300 on a dress I'll wear once I rent it and a few other things for a fraction of that. It's like having a rotating closet of luxe pieces without the guilt of overspending. Fashion math is finally in my favor right now. My listeners can give Armoire a try and get up to 50% off their first month. That's up to $125 off. Just visit Armoire Style Midlife. That's Armoire Style A R M O I R E Style Midlife to get up to 50% off your first month and never worry about what to wear again, try Armoire today. From fitness routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, we all need a little help being human. That's what the Life Kit podcast from NPR is here to do. If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit delivers strategies to help you make meaningful, sustainable Change Life doesn't come with a manual, but every day you're making choices, some big, some small, that shape the direction of your life. Life Kit offers real stories, relevant insights and clear takeaways to help you meet those decision making moments with confidence and clarity. I have to tell you, I loved their recent episode with Amanda Hess where she talked about the hidden ways technology can influence your parenting decisions. She got into how data metrics and our relationship to technology can shape child rearing and create barriers between parents and their kids. I found her thoughts on deciding whether or not to share images of her kid on social media really interesting since this is something every parent faces in our digital world. I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal wellness and actionable guidance I can actually use no fluff, no judgment, trusted voices and expert advice to help take me to the next step, however big or small. Get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting and your career. Then walk away with a game plan you can implement right away. Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement. It's about understanding how to live a little better. Starting now. Listen now to the Life Kit podcast from npr. Lemonada welcome to My so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Saujani. So I really needed this episode this week. My conversation with Tashunda made me feel how I feel. Like when I'm sitting in church or when I'm sitting in temple and you know, the reverend just gets up and just tells you exactly what you needed to hear at that moment. That's what she did for me. I was having a rough week. I needed someone to remind me about what leadership means and what leadership means in this moment. And she did that. She did that by reminding me that, you know, you rent your title but you own your values. Isn't that the truth? She also reminded me about the power of grief. Look like you and like a lot of midlifers, we're at the age we're losing people, we're losing our parents, our friends are losing their parents. Things are happening now that we didn't know could happen, or things are happening now that we knew were eventually gonna happen where we just weren't ready. We weren't ready to let go of that parent that we loved. And so Tashunda's vulnerability around losing her brother and the grief that she felt and how she dealt with it and what she did was just so important. And I really needed to hear that lesson. I know you all are gonna really need to hear that lesson right now. The other thing we talked about is money. So here's the thing. One of the biggest wake up calls for me in midlife has been around money. Not just how much I have or don't have, but what does wealth actually mean? What was I taught, what I wasn't taught? I mean, I lived with two parents who were refugees who were always stressed about money. My mother never, ever went to a store or bought anything unless she had a coupon. And so the way I was raised, the stories that I was told, helped shape my security and stress around money. And look, I know I'm not alone in being a little scared and intimidated by conversations about money. If you're anything like me, you also probably didn't grow up talking about wealth building or retirement planning at the dinner table. You were told to work hard, save a little, and just hope for the best. Don't take any risks. But the truth is, women, and in particular women of color, we enter our midlife, but we need a different conversation. We need a conversation that's about power, one that's about agency, one that's about getting over our fear of risk, one that's about designing a life that gives us freedom. Tashunda Brown Duckett, she is leading that conversation. She's the president and CEO of TIAA, one of the only two black women leading a Fortune 500 company. And what's so powerful about Jashunda isn't her title. It's how she carries it. She is one of the most impressive leaders I have met in a real long time. And I'm telling you, I literally could have an entire wall full of Tashunda quotes. That's how much she inspires me. Because she leads with purpose, purpose and faith. And she's a deep understanding about who we are and who she is. She's a financial visionary who kind of breaks it down in a way that just makes it all just a little more accessible. We talked about everything from the myth of work life balance, from grief to how to be a leader to that nagging add to the cart impulse every time we're shopping online. Happened to me this morning. And just how to take control over our finances and our own narratives. As Tashunda says, money is just never about money. It's about possibility. I walked away from this conversation feeling so much more empowered about my worth, my wealth, and about starting that group chat about money. I hope it does the same thing for you. Let's bring the money into the conversation. Hello. Thank you for doing this. So we talk a lot to Shonda on the show about midlife mindset, and it literally varies, like, for everyone. So some people, like, I love this point in my life. Some people are, like, worst time in my life. Like, how do you feel? Like, what's your midlife mindset?
- [08:14]
B
Jill Scott came into my head, like, living my life like it's golden. I feel exactly. It's. You know, I believe that I'm at the best time in my life, and I think it's because I have the benefit of perspective and knowing, you know, what the twenties meant or childhood, I couldn't comprehend everything, right? And then in my 30s, you're just grinding. But then your 40s hit, and things start to. You start to be okay with who you are. And then, you know, I just hit this new decade, and I'm like, wow. You know, it. It's. It feels good. And I think part of it is just I'm giving myself a lot more grace. I am so much more confident on who I am. I think I'm able to operate with a lot more intentionality because I have a lot of lessons that I've learned along the way, and I'm just looking forward to this. This next half. I really am.
- [09:10]
A
Ugh. I'm 49, turning 50 this year, and I. I'm. I'm nervous, right? Don't be nervous. You're making me. You're making me feel like you're making me get excited. Because I. I sometimes, if I was honest, I'm not sure I'm excited, right? But you're making me feel excited. Cause everyone says, like, when you hit 50, you're just like, oh, like, something shifts, you shift.
- [09:30]
B
You know that saying that we always hear? Like, when you're flying a plane, you have to put the mask on, you know, yourself and. But the reality is, in our 20s and 30s, and maybe in part of our 40s, we were not putting on our mask first. We were doing everything for everyone. We were, you know, whether it's work for, you know, the company or whether it's all the things we do for our kids and your. Your marriage, like, all the things. And I think this latter part of your 40s, heading into the 50s, you're like, this mask is squarely, squarely on my face now. Like, it is so good. And knowing that it has to be, I think that's the learning. Like, it has to be. When you get out of Bed. It has to be about you stretching or going to Pilates or working out. It has to be self care. It has to be, you know, your girlfriend time. It has to be my time in order for me to show up. Well, for all the things that I'm trying to get done. So don't be scared. Do not be scared.
- [10:28]
A
It has to be you, too. So I want to ask you, like, what motivated you in this journey to being this amazing CEO, mom and individual? Here's the thing, and I'm just not saying this because we're talking. You are one of the most impressive leaders I have met in a really long time. And I've met most of them.
- [10:47]
B
You have. That means a lot coming from you.
- [10:49]
A
I have met most of them and I've been in rooms where it's like, you're leading with love, courage and wisdom. And I'm reading this book right now, which. And it reminded me so much of you. It's, you know, Inner Excellence by Jim Murphy, where he talks about how, from the perspective of athletes, right, how great leaders are not chasing success, they're chasing their own potential. So they're competing with themselves. I feel like you relate to that.
- [11:20]
B
No, I mean, I am chasing purpose. And purpose is uniquely mine. And so I think that is that connection with my own potential. When I think about my journey, I think perspective matters. It's like understanding history, understanding that no matter how awesome I am, there was a time that this access just would not have been afforded to me. And not forgetting that, the perspective that I have in recognizing that I am first generation, full integration. You know, just sit in that for a moment, right? Like, my dad grew up in Louisiana, my mother grew up in Alabama, they grew up in the segregated South. And here I am. The perspective of understanding that my parents, we were short on money, but we were long on love and faith and vision. And my dad would tell me to dream, to reach for the moon. And so I do think success to me is not measured by the accolades. It's measured by this purpose. This purpose to inspire and make positive impact in the world.
- [12:37]
A
You say this title that you have is rented. What do you mean by that?
- [12:41]
B
So, yeah, I always say, you know, I rent my title, I own my character. And saying it out loud, especially in corporate America, it is this nod to affirming to myself that there will be a point in time no matter how awesome I am, no matter what results I may yield for the company, there will be a time that someone will need to occupy this seat. There may have been times in my own career or what I tell others, where you had a setback. And if you understand that your title is rented, but you own your character, no matter what happens, when I leave one job and go into another, I may leave that business card, but I walk away with my ownable assets. I walk away with my curiosity, my grit, my tenacity. Those are owned.
- [13:31]
A
And.
- [13:32]
B
And so I think the more I have learned to understand, the flex for me is not the rented title. The flex for me is these ownable assets that I have. The more confident I have become and the less beholden that I am. You know, I understand my purpose, and if it doesn't work out in this scenario, there's another purpose for me to get. But my ownable assets stay with me. You don't get them. And to me, that's. That's a real flex.
- [14:01]
A
You know, this conversation is reminding me a lot of the one I had with my friend Justice Jackson. Same thing. You know, she grew up, right, her parents, segregated South. Grew up with, like you said, long on love and justice. Like, you know, they say, ketanji, you can be everything and anything. And so she had that sense that, like, there was no mountain that was too high. There was no accolade. There was nothing that was just not obtainable or achievable. Right? And she always has this line where she says, you know, you bloom where you're planted. You know, what is this role of growing up with so much love, growing up with so much. With people telling you, yes, you can be everything and anything that has helped you have kind of the confidence you have today. Because the thing is, let's be real, like, you are often walking in spaces with people who don't look like you, who don't have the same story as you. And a lot of young girls that I talk to at girls who code, they really struggle with that, right? They're made to feel like they don't belong. What's your advice for them?
- [15:04]
B
Well, shout out to girls who code and all the great work that you've done and continue to do. You know, my advice first is that I decided that I never walk in a room by myself. When I walk into a room, I'm walking in with Otis and Rosie Brown. I am walking in with Miles Madison and Mackenzie, my children. I am walking in with Shirley Chisholm. I am walking in the room with Rosa. Like, I am walking in the room with all of these amazing women and all of these amazing people living or in the past that affirmed through their Example, through their perseverance or through the love that I have, that I belong in this room. And so reminding yourself that you don't walk into any room by yourself, the rent has been paid, you are walking in through a position of ownership that allows me to go, okay, all right, Shirley, what we going to do today? Okay, Harriet. All right. Madison, Mackenzie and Miles, you know, this going to be. This is going to be interesting. And I am reminded that I belong in this room. And I would say to young girls, not only do you belong in this room, your assignment is clear. You are to speak, you are to say, you are to bring your perspective. And yes, the reality is that initial, you know, feeling less thin, or do I really belong? Is this really happening? All of that. I let that breathe and then let it move on. Like I saw in the same breath that my parents were telling me to reach for the moon. At the same time I opened up the refrigerator and only saw baking soda. At the same time, I saw struggle. And yet they were telling me that you do not own that struggle. You own your excellence. And so pouring into me that you don't just keep those positive affirmations, you keep those lessons. And I think keeping them both. And that's what, as you know, I try to do, I bring that perspective, not just look at me now. I talk about the source of that. And I think bringing both of those together is what allows me to have my shoulders back and to know if I am first generation. Full integration, that perspective and mindset says I will not miss that moment in a room. I do belong in that room. Even if I am feeling a little uneasy.
- [17:38]
A
It's beautiful. You're literally making me cry. Such a tribute to our families and our ancestors and our elders, right that we are here. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, simple, stay warm, and save big without compromising on quality. Quinn's has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50. Washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true. I'm eyeing their wool coats. They look designer level, but cost a fraction of the price. And the quality just as good, if not better. By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middlemen, we Quince is able to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. I've really been loving their 100% European linen pleated trouser. These pants are elevated, airy and effortless. They've got an elastic waistband at the back and traditional pleated details at the front. These trousers are classic and comfy at the same time and they've become a staple in my wardrobe. Keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince go to quince.com midlife for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com midlife to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Queens.com midlife as I get older, I keep catching myself thinking I should go to the doctor more. You know, to deal with things like sleep, trouble, feeling bloated after certain meals and chronic fatigue. But it can be tough to get to the doctor. I want to keep myself healthy, but the system makes it impossible to find the right doc for my needs. Until I found ZocDoc. They made it so easy to find the right fit and book an appointment fast directly on their website. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. With Zocdoc, you can book in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care and more. And you can even filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for your medical needs and are highly rated by verified patients. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. You can even make appointments typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. I've even found same day appointments. Getting older means we have to stay on top of our preventative health. Even more so, I needed to find a primary doctor that I could trust and who was qualified to help with menopause symptoms. With Zocdoc, I was able to filter for primary care doctors within my area with high rated reviews. I was able to finally find reliable care within my reach at any time. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com midlife to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Zocdoc.com midlife Zocdoc.com midlife you know what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans Getting burned by your old wireless bill While you're planning beach trips, barbecues and three day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. That's why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. With Mint, you can get the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. So while your friends are sweating over data, overages and surprise charges, you'll be chilling, literally and financially. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with your existing contacts. Ditch to overpriced wireless and get three months of unlimited service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. I really have been paying way too much with one of the big carriers for service that didn't feel worth it, especially since I'm on WI Fi most of the time. With Mint, I can get the same great coverage I've had before, but for a fraction of the price. With all those savings, I can fund my next long overdue girls trip this year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month@mintmobile.com that's mintmobile.com midlife upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customer offer for the first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. I don't know about you, but I've always struggled with burnout and focus. This is such a common experience for so many of us, but what we don't realize is that sometimes the difficulties you go through might be something deeper. It might be time to explore what it means to be neurodivergent. If that's where you're at, I want to tell you about another podcast you should check out. It's called Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson. Each episode Ray speaks with a different expert, whether they're a scientist, doctor or researcher to dive into some of the big questions and headlines around mental health and well being from an ADHD lens. They talk about things like can you really hack your dopamine? And what parents need to know about the MAHA report. I checked out a few episodes and was so impressed by how they broke down adhd. I thought I knew what ADHD was, but Hyperfocus taught me the misconceptions, what to look out for with kids with adhd, and even trace back the history of how women have been underrepresented in ADHD diagnosis. As a parent and midlifer, I feel better equipped to understand what it really means to have ADHD and how to support those around me who are neurodivergent. If you're curious about adhd, make sure to listen to Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson. Search for Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson in your podcast app. That's Hyperfocus with Ray Jacobson. Why money? What about that then drove you to.
- [24:10]
B
Finance why Money one Looking at it through the rearview mirror, money insecurity was always there, and I felt it. And then Mr. And Ms. Patterson, who were family friends, told me about a program called Inroads. And Inroads is a program for minorities to get exposure into corporate America. Remember, talent is created equally, opportunity is not.
- [24:43]
A
That's right.
- [24:44]
B
What Inroads has done for me and for so many others was brought the talent to the opportunity. And what's crazy about this story is that the power of information was the program Inroads. I never heard the word corporate America, but then the power of advocacy, when I didn't even know what advocacy meant. A woman by the name of Valerie Manning had one job, and that was to find one intern on that day, and she interviewed a bunch of students. And Valerie Manning went back to work and said, I found our intern. Her name is Sarah. My name's not Sarah, but Valerie Manning, for whatever reason, said, but there's this other girl, and if you know you do not get a bonus by adding a second intern. But for whatever reason, Valerie Manning said those words and I started my career at Fannie Mae. And those two moments, those two disruptors in my life, connected. My story around financial insecurity, the fact that my parents did not own a home, to this dream of home ownership in corporate America that then led me down a path of understanding the impact and the imperative of financial dignity. I was able to connect to the life lessons I learned along the way. And that is why I can bring this different perspective into corporate America and into the C Suite is because I choose to stay connected. So that's how it started.
- [26:20]
A
So now you're this huge advocate for retirement savings, and I want to talk about women in retirement because I think a lot of us right now, we're not even thinking about it. You've highlighted that 40% of Americans are at risk of running out of retirement Savings with women and black Americans being particularly vulnerable. That's scary. And when you look at the numbers for women, it's even more alarming. So, as you know, women retire with 30% less than men. Why do you think that is? Like, what are the factors that are contributing to that?
- [26:53]
B
Okay, let's go. Let's go. First, I have to tell you this. Like the fact that I am leading tiaa. When I graduated from college, I happened to be looking at my dad's statement, Otis Brown. And the daughter is telling the father, who at the time worked probably over 30 years, dad, you don't have enough to retire. And by the way, you have a 401k plan. He had not $1 in it.
- [27:25]
A
No, not even a dollar.
- [27:26]
B
He had not one dollar. Now, my dad worked in the warehouse. He scanned boxes. And for the daughter to tell the father that you have access to this really, really great 401k plan. And for decades, he never contributed a dollar. That lit me up because all he had said. Why?
- [27:49]
A
What happened?
- [27:50]
B
Because here's the thing. He worked in the warehouse so many times. You know, we have, as leaders at companies, we have great brochures, we have great seminars. The question is not, do we have all the things on paper? The question that we have to ask ourselves, is it reaching the person furthest from us? And the reality is, no one went to Otis Brown. No one went to the people in the mailroom to say, you have this benefit that you are entitled to that can change the course of your family's life. If someone said that to Otis Brown, the man who moved around, that relocated in a car, car with everything we own, that man would do anything for us. And the moment I told my dad, he immediately started to catch up. And by the way, I was making $26,000. So it wasn't like I had no idea what I would become. But the point is that is also when you say, what is the issue? It is not that there's not the things. Is that the things are not reaching the people who need it the most. And then when you layer that on, when you talk about women or people of color, and you have to go back to structure, structure that had exclusions, exclusions to really good jobs. And so part of that is you started behind women did not have access to the same type of jobs. This is why you do girls who code. We also know there's the pay gap. So if you're making less on $1, it's going to compound less over time. We also know that women exit the workforce, whether that's you have a baby or to take care of our family or all the things at a much higher rate than men, which means that's less contribution to catch up on. We also know divorce happens. And so all of that compounds in a way that we end up with less, and. Or as people of color, we end up with less because we started with less, and we don't have different access points to be able to soften the blow. So in a retirement plan, you hear the stories where people will take money out to help their child go to school. And that I get. The problem is we don't get back on track. And now you're 50, 60, 70 years old and you're not able to work two and three jobs to catch up.
- [30:19]
A
That's right. Someone had said to me, it's the reason why, Reshma, you see so many more women in senior citizen homes because of all these structural things, right, that leave him with less money, less empowerment, less kind of autonomy over their own decisions. Even when it comes to Social Security, if you. If your husband ends up dying, you don't get all of it. You get like, half of it or something, Right.
- [30:41]
B
It's all these women live longer than men, Right? We live longer than men, which means that's a longer time to try to figure it all out. You're spot on.
- [30:51]
A
Yeah. So outside of policy, what are some steps that you would advise women to do? Kind of in midlife, knowing this, knowing that this is all kind of likely to happen. What can we do now to prepare?
- [31:02]
B
This is why I love this question, especially when you say we're at midlife. You know? You know, it's the quote by Maya Angela. When we know better, we do better, and we do it without judgment. And money is emotional. So the first thing we need to acknowledge is, yes, money is emotional. Take a breath and forgive yourself. I think that's really important. It is absolutely okay to bring the sisterhood into the conversation, to be able to say, all right, we're here at our midlife. How are we going to change the outcome of all the things we talk about and actually make it happen and do it together? I think it's important to be okay, looking at that balance sheet, pulling up that credit score, you know, pulling up that savings account, looking at your retirement plan. And then when you know better, you do better. So here are some simple things. One, check your company and make sure. Are you at least maxing out to the point of their match? If not, you're leaving coins on the table, you're leaving compounding on the table, and you're leaving the benefit that comes with retirement plans on the table. Secondly, if you're like, well, okay, I don't see the money to do that, you might have bought that Venti Starbucks. Buy a Grande and move the money into your savings account.
- [32:29]
A
Take that spare change, period.
- [32:31]
B
And also, here's a big one, especially for women without judgment. You know, this online thing can get a little ridiculous, right? You go online, you're shopping, it's a sale, or it's just, you know, good pricing. Click, click, click. I want you to click until it is almost laughable how much you have in the cart. Like, you know, you can't check out. Just keep clicking and then wait a day. Never check out. So click all you want and wait a day, and then you go back. I promise you, if you wait a day, you've got the fix of the energy of all the things. And then you go back and you just don't click checkout. And Instead you move $100 into your savings account. You move $50. So the point is, get your fix, click away. Shoes, outfit, purse, all the things, wait 24 hours, go back, and then move $50 or $100 or whatever it is into your savings. You do that, you'll start to see the power of compounding, the power of saving, the power of then contributing to your retirement planning. You'll start to see it and do it with some girlfriends. Like, every time you go shopping online, send that screenshot to your friends like it's laughable at 50 items in the cart. And we all laugh and go, 24 hour rule. And then send them the picture back of you moving money into your savings or moving money into your retirement, that will be so much fun and it will be so crazy how expensive that car got. 10,000. It doesn't matter the amount. It just starts to get ridiculous and to the point that you start to save.
- [34:07]
A
I love this. So also, you've taught me that, like, barely half of American women have an emergency fund. Again, worse for people of color, right? Worse for black and Latino American women. What could we be doing to build this emergency fund?
- [34:23]
B
Well, you have to start small. And I think, you know, this is why I talk about the coffee or the, you know, shopping, because most people can't see $400. Like, I just don't have it. And so the key is to start small, to start small, to start smart, meaning you take action, you know, and then I think if you start small and you start if you start now and you start small, over time, you can get to that $400. I mean, if you think about it, that's one less happy hour you go to. Instead of getting your nails done once a week, get it once a month. That's $35 right there. Look at your financial habits. And if you say, what are some of the everyday financial habits that I will just move over into my savings, you will see that $400 sooner than what you could imagine. And I think for women in particular, we do so much on autopilot. Your child had a good day at school. You want to reward them. You take them out to eat. Your mother calls you and says, I need something. You give even when we don't have. That's just who we are. And I think taking that pause and say, have I done something small for myself first? And so if I was going to buy the three boxes, I'm going to buy the one, and I'm going to move the other two into my account because I. I need to have that $400. Those are those healthy habits, small habits along the way that can help you get going and start to see that you do have a little bit more liquidity than you thought. And I think it's just practical and pragmatic. Until you get to that next job or that next promotion, there's things you can do. And I think so many of us wait and say, well, when I get that next job or when I get that next promotion, I'll be able to. And I just want to encourage us to find those small moments to reward ourselves to get to that emergency fund.
- [36:25]
A
So it's interesting, you keep talking about the sisterhood almost like this group chat, right? And it's funny because I see Nihal do this with his guys, oh, you gotta check out this stock, see what's happening with Nvidia. Da da da da da da da. And I got a lot of group chats on a lot of things, but I don't want to have one on money, you know, so have you seen good, like, communities of women coming together? Yeah. Tell us how to create one, you.
- [36:48]
B
Know, five friends that you truly trust. The ones that you talk about, the things, you know, the things. These are women who you trust. And I think especially in every circle, you have the friend that is all about her business. You have the friend that will make you laugh about our business. You have the friend who is working on her business, and you have the friend that talks that business. So we all play a role. But I Think you look at the smile. We're talking about money and we're smiling. So I think if you sent a note out to five friends today and you said, hey, y', all, my money is funny and very interesting, but, you know, I have goals and ambition and I have a girls trip that I really want us to go to. How about we get together and just make sure we're all aligned about money? I guarantee you, I guarantee you the real talk. And there will be tears when you get together with the wine, because what happens is we'll start to tell our real story. We'll start to say, you know what, when I was in college, I made these really bad decisions and this happened and I got real into credit card debt or you know what, I was doing okay, and then someone got sick and I had to max out. And so I'm struggling or you know what, I'm overwhelmed. And then by having those stories, we start to do our research, which is what we do, and to say, oh, there's a woman like Lynette Kilfani Cox, the money coach, who we can reach out to and ask her to pop into our little chat and give us some tips. This is how we do it. The guys do it their way. This is how we do it. We do it with wine, we do it with tears, we do it with laughter, and then we do the research and we get going. That, to me, is the power of sisterhood. And I think we have to bring finance to the sisterhood chat.
- [38:34]
A
I'm doing this, Tashunda, like, literally, after we're done, I'm gonna like, go do my, create my, my, my group chat. I'm thinking about what, what I'm gonna name it so that'll come to me.
- [38:44]
B
Midlife money. Midlife.
- [38:47]
A
Oh, girl, that's a good one. All right. Midlife money. From fitness routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, we all need a little help being human. That's what the Life Kit podcast from NPR is here to do. If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit delivers strategies to help you make meaningful, sustainable change. Life doesn't come with a manual, but every day you're making choices, some big, some small, that shape the direction of your life. Life Kit offers real stories, relevant insights, and clear takeaways to help you meet those decision making moments with confidence and clarity. I have to tell you, I loved their recent episode with Amanda Hess where she talked about the hidden ways technology can influence your parenting decisions. She got into how data metrics and our relationship to technology can shape child rearing and create barriers between parents and their kids. I found her thoughts on deciding whether or not to share images of her kid on social media really interesting since this is something every parent faces in our digital world. I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal wellness, actionable guidance I can actually use no fluff, no judgment, trusted voices and expert advice to help take me to the next step, however big or small. Get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting and your career. Then walk away with a game plan you can implement right away. Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement. It's about understanding how to live a little better. Starting now. Listen now to the Life Kit podcast from npr. Our healthcare system is broken in so many ways. We have a healthcare system that's supposed to be taking care of people that is making it literally more difficult for people to put food on the table. So this season we'll dive into the challenges head first while also thinking about about how we can find a better way because we all deserve better. Uncared for. Season 3 from Lemonada Media available August 6th wherever you get your podcasts, I want to talk to you about being a mom and you're a very hands on mom. I love following you on ig, seeing what you're up to with your family and your kids. One of the things I love is hearing you talk about what you really think about the term work life balance.
- [41:38]
B
Work life balance is a lie. I think we just all have to say it. And I had to learn that the hard way, right? Because again I'm in my 30s and I have two kids and I'm working and driven and I remember I would literally drive to a bus stop to then take the bus commuter to New York to then either walk to the office, which is like 25 minutes, or catch a cab every day and do it in reverse. And I remember I was at the Port Authority in New York and it was the last bus and the last bus. Everyone is going to the casino. There's no more commuter people from work. And I look around and I see an older man cleaning the Port Authority and I break down and I called my husband and I said when I wake up in the morning I don't see my kids and when I get home I don't see my kids and I am just failing. Now my husband, as you know, is a stay at home, dad, he's a Marine and an engineer, and he says without hesitation, then quit. And I was like, that's not the point. Right? But his point was, if this is not working, we'll pivot. Now we'll need to make some changes, but we'll pivot. At that moment, I started to realize that this work life was never going to reconcile. And so I was never feeling great. I never felt like I was a great mom, great at work, great spouse, great. This, because it never reconciled. So I shifted my perspective and I am into finance. So I said, I'm going to live my life like a diversified portfolio. And what that means. And everyone, it's game changing. You tell yourself the truth. You only have 100%. How many times we tell ourselves it's 120? No, you don't. It's a hundred, it's 100. You do not have 120%. That's a lie. You have a hundred. And then think about everything that matters to me. Being a mom, an executive, a philanthropist, a mentor, a friend, an auntie. And you allocate. And the reality is that my children only get 30% of my time. By telling myself that truth, I became a much more present mom. How many times our kids are around, we're doing five things, and I'm texting and yep, mommy here. Yeah, that's cute.
- [44:19]
A
All the time.
- [44:20]
B
All the time. Until I realized they only have 30%. And when I realized that, I became a more present moment. And here's the point. If you allocate everything that brings you joy into your portfolio, even if it's just 1%, just like your money, you want it to be diversified. There will be market volatility, There will be life volatility. Sometimes you have to short the stock. You just gotta let it go and reallocate. When my brother died, I had to reallocate my portfolio. And to being a sister, to being an auntie, to being a mother. When I got my new CEO job at tia, I had to allocate more time. So it's giving myself grace to respond to market needs. And here is the flex. If you live your life like a diversified portfolio, over time you will outperform this thing called life. And so I know that my kids don't have 100%, but within that 30%, they now get 100. I know that I may not be a great mom when I'm traveling like crazy, but over time, I'm a really good mom. There's times I don't feel like I'm a good, you know, daughter because my parents live in Texas and I'm on the east Coast. But over time, I'm an amazing daughter. So I am living my best life because everything that brings me joy is in my allocation. If not, you sell it.
- [45:45]
A
I love that. I mean, I think one of the things that's helped me do that is I'm ruthless about my schedule. Like, ruthless. And I just don't have the same guilt. Like, I'm like, I don't need to go to that event at night, you know, because I kind of rather be on the couch watching Peppa the Pig with my kids. And I think when you're ruthless about your schedule, but that means I spend a lot of time looking at it. I spend a lot of time moving things around. I spend a lot. Like, everybody on my team knows. And then you put in blocks of time. But I love this. It's like you're honest about the time you have and where you're going to put it, and then you're fully, fully present.
- [46:20]
B
No. It gives you the ability to say no. Because if I've allocated 5% to be a mentor and everyone's still asking, do you have 15 more minutes? I can say no, because I now have language to say. If I give you those 15 more minutes on my mentor allocation, I'm taking away from my family time because I will be under allocated in another area that brings me joy. And that has helped me a ton of to be okay saying no.
- [46:48]
A
Can I ask you something about grief? Because I do think in midlife we're all experiencing a lot of loss that comes from different places. You lost your incredible brother Jamal in 2022. And you said something in your tribute that really stuck with me. You said, yes, I am a leader striving to make a positive difference, but I'm also a sister carrying a broken heart. And it's important to me to not just share what's awesome, but what also hurts.
- [47:19]
B
You know, grief is love. With no place to go. And going through this grief journey, it's like the show this Is Us. It's like there were eight different scenarios happening at the same time. I saw the grief of my younger brother who couldn't even drive to the hospital because the anxiety was just overwhelming. I saw the strength of a mother trying to reconcile it all and leaning on her faith to the point that it was scary to see the grief of a father, grief of his children. His youngest child was a senior in college. The truth is, life was never promised to live to A certain age. So there was nothing to say. You promised me something that you did not give. The truth is that if God told me, I will give you 49 years of an amazing brother who is your biggest fan, who would check on you, sis, you do everything. How you doing? Like so suave and make me laugh and just so proud of you. And he set such an example in so many ways. I'll give you that for 49 years. And I'm going to take them from you. Do you want it? Because when it happens, it's going to gut you. I'd say give me those 49 years. And so what I am learning in this midlife is life be lifeing. Joy comes in the morning. I grieve him and will forever grieve him. But the joy of what he means, the joy of being able to count my blessings every day has compounded this passion of purpose, has intensified this level of taking a breath. All of it are the lessons that are available through grief. And that to me is what I'm holding onto and knowing some days I can say those things to you and some days I will be a hot mess crying. And I'm crying because I loved. The gift is that I got to experience an amazing brother. The gift is that he's forever in my heart. And the gift is that he is always available for me whenever I need him.
- [50:01]
A
And he's with God cheering you on every single day.
- [50:04]
B
He is too easy. That's what he would always say. Like, jay, can you go check in? Mom's too easy, too easy. So, you know, that's the thing. He was just like, whatever I would ask him to do, he would just go, too easy. Sis, I got you. And he still has me. But grief. And I will tell you at work, sometimes when we're going through something, we try to keep it all together and show up at work as if nothing happened. The reality is, it's like back in the day, there was a saying. My mom would say, your slip is showing. Meaning you think you have it all together, but the slip is just trailing this cute outfit. And so with grief, or when you're dealing with family and issues, trying to keep it all together because, you know, I don't want anyone to think I'm weak. Your slip is showing. Anyway, someone knows something is wrong. And so what I have chosen to do is even with my board, while I was in the height of the grief and I had a board meeting when I came back, I said to them, I don't know how I'm going to respond. I might break down and cry. It is not the feedback you're giving me, it's this grief. But I shared it. Do you know so many people came back. The number of people that added their beneficiary went up. And so my point is when your life is lifing, there's also space for a testimony. There's space to remind people I am human. That to me is another lesson that I've learned through grief.
- [51:25]
A
Such a powerful lesson to share because I think a lot of us don't do that. Right? We try to like again, let the show.
- [51:32]
B
It's showing. Yep. You walking around being all proper looking cute slip showing everyone is seeing your mess.
- [51:40]
A
This conversation was like everything and more. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your honesty, your vulnerability and your wisdom.
- [51:50]
B
This was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for reminding me that I am living my best life, scars and all. So wonderful. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
- [52:13]
A
Tashunda Brown Duckett is the President and CEO of tiaa. One last thing, thank you so much for listening to my so Called Midlife. If you haven't yet, now's a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content like Dr. Mary Claire Havertz talking about resistance training and walking with a weighted vest. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or for all the other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com thanks and we'll be back next week. I'm your host Reshma Sajani. Our Associate producer is Isaura Acevez and our senior producer is Chrissy Pease. This season this series is sound designed by Ivan Khurayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltok. Our VP of New content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oha Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax, and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consistent consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review and let us know how you're doing in Midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show@speakpipe.com midlife follow my so called Midlife wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye.
- [53:56]
C
Hey it's Lena Waithe Legacy Talk is my love letter to Black storytellers, artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season, I'm sitting down with icons like Phylicia Rashad, Loretta Devine, Ava DuVernay and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast or Watch us on YouTube.