← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Tamron Hall on Failure, Reinvention, and Not Giving Up
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- [00:01]
Dylan Mulvaney
Hi, is this an okay time? It's your girl, Dylan Mulvaney, and I am inviting you to my weekly cocktail party and my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour, brought to you by Lemonada Media. Life is stressful and there is so much darkness in the world. I think we could all use a little bit of trans joy. So join me every week as I interview some of my favorite A list, celebrity friends and gurus, and of course the dolls. While we sip and split, spill the scalding hot tea. So put your worries aside and join me at the Dylan Hour. You can listen on Apple, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love ya.
- [00:36]
Hoda Kotb
Hey everybody, it's Hoda Kotb. And I would love for you to join me for new episodes of my podcast, Making Space. Each week I'm having conversations with authors, actors, speakers and dear friends of mine, folks who are seeking the truth, compassion and self discovery. I promise you will leave these talks stronger and inspired to make space in your own life for growth and change. To start listening, just search Making Space wherever you get your podcasts and follow for new episodes every Wednesday.
- [01:08]
Tamron Hall
Lemonada.
- [01:16]
Reshma Sajani
Welcome to my so called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it.
- [01:23]
Tamron Hall
Reshaping.
- [01:23]
Reshma Sajani
I'm Reshma Sajani. Okay, so midlifers, I want to tell you about the biggest failure of my life. I ran for Congress when I was 33 years old in this Democratic primary against someone who had been there for basically 19 years. And I thought I was going to win. Like I told everybody I was going to win. I sunk my savings into the race. I worked my ass off. I mean, I. Ever since I was a little girl, all I've ever wanted to do is serve. And all I've ever wanted to do is be in Congress. That dream never happened. Not only did I lose, I mean, I lost spectacularly. I mean, I got like five votes. I mean, it was so, so embarrassing, so humiliating. But sometimes failure is like the best thing that can ever happen to you. If I didn't lose that race, I never would have started. Girls who Code Failure is all about how you react to it, how you move on from it, what you learn from it. And the thing that I've learned about failure is like, sometimes the best things are just around the corner. And you have to really believe that. No regrets. Everything happens for a reason. So my guest this week is someone who has learned how to win through the losses. Tamron hall was the first black woman to host the Today show in 2014. But in 2017, she experienced a real sense of failure because NBC gave her co hosting spot to Megyn Kelly. Instead of taking a different role at NBC, Tamron decides to leave the network entirely. Later that year, she joined Disney and ABC and launched the Tamron hall show, which has won multiple. Let me say that again, multiple Emmys. Failure was the best thing that ever happened to her. I was recently a guest on the Tamron hall show to talk about midlife and wow, this woman is a powerhouse. I mean, I've been watching her show for a while, but just being on the couch with her, she just blew me away. I mean, she's a brilliant host, and I'm so thankful and grateful to her that she brought midlife and the conversation around midlife to her platform and her community, because we know midlifers, that women need it right now. So I'm excited that I got to turn the tables and have her here with us today because I also think that we needed to hear her story. So, like me, failure was the best thing to happen to Tamron because it taught her that nothing is guaranteed. She learned what I learned, which is you got to rely on yourself, and if you're not fully ready to rely on yourself, you need to take a bet on yourself. In her midlife, Tamron turned a layoff not only into a new show, but into a marriage and a baby. She got all of that pretty much in the span of a couple years, and she got it after the age of 46. She is really this living example of that. It's never too late. You just have to be ready with your own bold backup plan, and you gotta be ready to bet on yourself. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Quick note, though. The audio is a little rough in the beginning, but stick with us because it gets much better shortly. Hey.
- [05:01]
Tamron Hall
Hi. How are you?
- [05:03]
Reshma Sajani
I'm so good. I had so much fun with you.
- [05:06]
Tamron Hall
Thank you. That was a blast.
- [05:08]
Reshma Sajani
I really, really appreciate it. And we got a lot of great kind of social conversation around the conversation of midlife. It's like it's on everyone's mind. It's so interesting.
- [05:16]
Tamron Hall
It is. It's so interesting. And I think that that's why those shows resonate. When I. When I first created the pitch for my talk show, and believe it or not, there were a lot of buyers who thought, and no one wants an hour conversation. The attention span and people don't want to do this. And people don't want to do this. Women don't want to see that. And then we started doing big conversations like ours and they rate. And now, of course, all of the buyers, seven seasons in all, want more of that kind of content and want more of that to talk about because it delves into so many aspects of our lives.
- [05:51]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah, totally. Well, I wanted to start because we always start by asking people, people what their midlife mindset is. So how are you feeling about this time of your life? You hyped? You depressed? You sad? What?
- [06:02]
Tamron Hall
Oh, you know, I, I'm quite happy. I know that's a very simple phrase, but no, I, I am actually so thrilled to be on this journey. It's an interesting time in my life because the matriarch and patriarch of my family, my oldest uncle and my oldest aunt, are in their 80s now and they're both at very challenging chapters and it gives me great perspective. And life is, it's short and if you're lucky enough to get numbers in the 80s, you're very fortunate. But I have good days, I have days where I'm sad, frustrated, all those great emotions that we're supposed to feel. But overall it's fabulous.
- [06:42]
Reshma Sajani
You have this really powerful line you said, which just makes me think, it made me think. You said, my grandfather was born in 1901. He couldn't read. And I make my money now with my words. Yeah. What does that mean to you?
- [06:56]
Tamron Hall
It's everything. It's perspective. When people say to me, I remember when I was launching the show and I had a wonderful journalist that I admire. She led with, do you know how hard this is? And I know she didn't mean it in a negative way, but we sometimes lead with that, with people. And I said to her, my grandfather was a sharecropper who couldn't read and he had a great life. And here we are standing in an apartment in a penthouse in New York City, about to be served by a bunch of people. I mean, I, and that's not to diminish and not to believe that people who are wealthy or have great means, they don't have challenges because we know that's just not true. But I, I, I, it gives me perspective. My mom was a 19 year old single mom.
- [07:45]
Reshma Sajani
Wow.
- [07:45]
Tamron Hall
She came home with me and poured her love and her dreams into me. And Now I am 48 year old mom, first time mom, 48 years old, you know, and, and so I, I just try to have perspective on things.
- [08:00]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. And just such a, the gift that we have. Right. Of opportunities that so many of our elders like didn't Have. So you've had this amazing career. You were the first black female co host of the Today show, right. Anchor for MSNBC Live with Tamron Hall. I mean, list goes on and on. And like many people listening on the show, which is why I think you're so inspirational, you found yourself kind of having to start over at 46. Can you talk about that time and kind of what you learned from that period and kind of what you would offer to some of our listeners about.
- [08:40]
Tamron Hall
Well, that's why it was so important for me to figure out my next chapter versus becoming consumed with anger or what about me? Or a wrong that was done to me. Right. I was lucky enough that being let go so publicly ignited a passion in people to appreciate my work. I didn't have to complain. There were enough people upset for me, which is a beautiful thing when people who don't even know you, you are championing and rooting for you. But I was very mindful of not allowing anger to weigh down my wings. I think sometimes we can lead, whether it's through motherhood, whether it's through anything in life, through the lens of how hard it is or how challenging it is. Absolutely. Being a woman over 45, you know, another day in time, I would be the person you ran into at the grocery store and said, oh, is that the lady? I remember her on tv. But social media gave me an opportunity to stay relevant and keep my name and my purpose out there. But also the times that we live in, right. We now recognize and understand that while life is short in so many ways, as I talked about with my elders and my family, it is full of opportunities. Every season we have people who, you know, started over and created something and now they have a business. We had a young woman on just yesterday who bought, she was walking down the street, was a social worker in Queens, New York. Walking down the street, saw this chocolate company called Ignor Chocolates had gone out of business. She and her friend decided they're going to buy it. They now were just listed the best chocolate company in New York City.
- [10:32]
Reshma Sajani
And she's just walking and she's walking down the street being like walking down.
- [10:36]
Tamron Hall
The street, being herself, being in a present form and looking for that next chapter. And that's the times we live in that this, you know, 30 something woman walks down the street, sees a chocolate company, I think that's been around since like 1920 or whatever it is, and thinks, you know what? But for me, I think that's an example. If you're looking at the negative lens and not viewing the opportunities.
- [11:16]
Reshma Sajani
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- [16:06]
Tamron Hall
And it feels, I think listen then I don't want to negate the realities of I lost my job. I am my backup plan. There was there were no gold bars in the backyard of my parents home. So I don't want to pretend that it didn't come with hurt, frustration, anger. You know, all of those senses of fear, you know, and anxiety that come with losing your job. I don't want to say that. What I want to say is, in the midst of acknowledging those fears, I had to recognize on the other side of that fear was the potential to define myself, was the potential to use those 30 years of being a reporter, five or six different TV shows, all of those things, how do I. How do I really exploit those things? And even with my children's book that I've written, you know, it is about curiosity. It's about facing fears. It's what's on the other side of that fear. When you're actually on the field. Right. When you are actually the player, you are not the spectator, it all flies out the window. I mean, every book I think I read over the nine months of me being pregnant, I just. I couldn't even tell you a title now because it was a blur, because now you're. It's game time. It's go time. And going back to that fearful moment of me losing my job, the fear was there. The frustration was there. The sense of being wronged, of course, was there. But on the other side of that fear was an opportunity to rebuild myself and get out on the field on my terms. And I know that that could not have happened if I allowed the fear, the anger, to be the dominant feeling.
- [18:02]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. Yep. I get it. You know, when I. I've run for office twice, and I've lost twice, and people always say, like, what's your hack on failure? And I. When I lost my first race, I remember I said to myself, all right, Reshma, you have one month to think about it, to talk about it, to, you know, to drink a hundred margaritas, to ask your husband, right? What. What happened? Should I hire that? Did I hire the wrong person? I shouldn't have said that thing. But then after a month, you move on. Like, you don't relitigate or relive the thing that didn't work out. And that tool has really worked for me.
- [18:36]
Tamron Hall
I think it's a great tool, and I've done that as well. I read a quote once, and I don't even know if it's a real quote from her, but there was a quote that Jennifer Aniston allegedly said after her breakup with Brad Pitt. It's like you throw yourself a pity party, and then you move on.
- [18:53]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah.
- [18:54]
Tamron Hall
When I was launching my show, right as I met my husband, I was in la, and I was there for an award ceremony of some sort. And I had not sold the show yet, the talk show yet. I was, you know, in the early stages of talking about it, and there was interest, but it wasn't going as fast as I thought. I'd lost my job, I think at the end of January, beginning of February. Now it's the summer, and I'm getting antsy and I'm unsure. And the new TV season is supposed to start in September, and it's like, what's going on? And I was in the Hotel Sunset Marquee, and I threw myself a pity party. You know, I really did. I cried. And, you know, I went through this whole thing and I put on a swimsuit and I walked to the pool, and lo and behold, I ran into my husband, who I knew. And we were. We were friendly, loosely. But then we started to talk to each other and set up a date. Every pity party doesn't end with you walking out and meeting someone you want to marry. But to your point, you have to be able to release it. You know, I've been using this comparison of a tire. And when you've put so much air in and it's hard and you stiff and you hit it and it doesn't move, you want to inflate yourself, but not to the point that you're hardened because the tire needs that little pushback. You know, a hard tire is not the best tire. And so for me, it's that same philosophy. You know, I needed to release, let it seep out the fear, seep out, the anger, seep out, the tension, seep out. But I needed to make sure the air that was left inside of me was positive, that was forward focused, that was focused on not what I lost, but what I could get.
- [20:50]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. And what comes out of that is a one in a lifetime show. Right. And something that no one had ever done before. And I'm sure people had said to you, well, you can't pitch a show. You're a black woman, you're in your late 40s. Nobody wants to listen to anything for an hour and do a show about the things that you care about.
- [21:13]
Tamron Hall
Well, it's funny enough. And they weren't so direct to say, like, oh, your show won't make it. It was, look at all of the other people whose shows didn't make it. And they would imply these people were bigger names, these people had bigger budgets, these people had a bigger audience and a bigger fan base. And maybe they were comedians or maybe they were this or that. And so they didn't say, you won't make it. They said, look at all these other people who didn't make it, with the implication of how is it possible that you will? And it reminded me of one of my favorite professors when I went to Temple University, was a journalism professor who I adore and still do. She said something along the lines of, if you think you're going to leave college and go strolling into some newsroom and get a job, well, guess what? I got my first TV job before I even graduated college. And I came back to her and I said, well, I got the job. And she said, okay, now keep the job and now make it better, and now do. So she kept upping the challenge. And I love that because, yeah, sometimes you might be the one in a million, but how do you keep that show on for seven seasons? How do you become the second longest running daytime talk show in Disney's history? That becomes where age and wisdom was, my friend.
- [22:39]
Reshma Sajani
So when you're walking out of those meetings and people are saying that to you, I think a lot of people are like, it gives them the reason to not do it. So for you, what did. What did you have in yourself or in your community? So, like, I have a husband who's like, you're the baddest bitch in the world. You know what I mean? You can do anything, right? And so I have my support network and I got some swag, and I'm kind of like, you know, I'm kind of like Kobe Bryant. When I don't get picked for the game, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna show you. I feel like you're that way, too. So, like, tell. Tell me what happens and what you tell yourself and who you have around you.
- [23:17]
Tamron Hall
Well, I. I wish I had that swag. I. I would tell you that I might appear that way. I'm not. What I had was my back against the wall. You know, what was. What was the option? Right? You know, what. What was the choice? And, you know, people would come to me later and say, gosh, you were so brave to turn down and walk away, you know, for your dignity. And I said, you know, yes, there's absolutely a part of that was based on dignity. I'm not going to allow someone to treat me this way. The other part was my back was against the wall. And I feel that I am at my greatest when someone says I have no options. I have this thing that I call it my Liam Neeson when he says I have a particular set of skills that he says, and Taken and, you know, gets on the phone with the bad guy who's got his daughter. He's like, I got a particular set of skills. And so I would. I would say that I have a particular set of skills. At the time, I had been on five different networks, hosted seven shows. Never been fired in my life. I've been working since I was 14.
- [24:24]
Reshma Sajani
Wow.
- [24:25]
Tamron Hall
I was able to pull viewers from different aspects. So I'm on msnbc. Well, I'm from a red state in the reddest part of that state. People didn't know me from msnbc, but they knew me from Deadline Crime. I had some people who knew me from the Today show, but other people watch gma, so they might know me from the Sister Wives reunion show. You know, some people never watched any of that, but love watching the Macy's Fourth of July parade. I had hosted that. So I pulled from these tentacles, right? Or these branches. If I'm the tree, I'm pulling from the branches that God and the universe have allowed me without even me knowing, to grow from me. And now I'm going to form this show that has amazing guests on like yourself, talking about midlife and life. And then the next day we're doing a beauty bar and screaming audience getting free lipstick and they're going crazy. You know, I was able to do that, but I think for me it was more about finding my options and not allowing the world or anyone to tell me I didn't have an option.
- [25:31]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. And you get hit a pretty big blow while you're creating and pitching the show. Right. You talk about how, you know, you. A meeting with Harvey Weinstein, right, To talk about the show right before the allegations about him came out. How did you handle that?
- [25:46]
Tamron Hall
You know, it was so sometimes, you know what they call it? Baptism by fire.
- [25:50]
Reshma Sajani
Yes.
- [25:51]
Tamron Hall
It happened so rapidly and it's like so surreal. Like, I didn't know him that long. We'd only had a few meetings. But he was very, very, very passionate about pushing this project, this talk show. And it is one of the most complex, disorienting thing to think about being in a room with someone who advocated for you to not be made invisible, but at the same time be this person who was found guilty and is spending probably the rest of his life in prison for something so just evil.
- [26:40]
Reshma Sajani
I mean, you probably see this a lot with people who come onto the show and have stories like that, right. Of parents or, you know what I mean? Or have suffered abuse and like, you're trying to kind of navigate, right? The, like you said, I think the complexity of some of these situations.
- [26:56]
Tamron Hall
Yeah, yeah. It is enlightening. I mean, it also reminds you that life, you know, is. We try to make it. I tell people all the time, I was phenomenal thing to work for Disney because I now recognize how we try to make life a Disney ending. You know, when I was writing, you know, my. My children's book Harlem Honey, I tried to acknowledge and be. Be very realistic in this character's journey. This little boy who was moving from Texas, and he's super afraid, and there's this new environment and all of. And. And acknowledging that life is. Even for a little kid, it's not so simple.
- [27:38]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Tamron Hall
But if we give ourselves the tools, if we pull from, like the therapists like to say, your toolbox, or we. We give our children the tools that can help them, they won't erase these fears or erase these challenges, but if we can try to armor them up, that means that maybe when they're faced with a situation where someone says, we don't want you on the team, as I faced that, you understand that that's not the only team, that's not the only sport, that's not the only part of the journey.
- [28:13]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. I want to come to probably what inspired you to write this book is your child.
- [28:19]
Tamron Hall
When I, you know, had my son at age 48, I recognized that there were gonna be many things. You know, I've been in morning TV for 30 years. I've read every parent book that you can im. And for me, after the pandemic, I ended up seeing my child. You know, the advice I got was, parent the child you have. And so we go from this really big world with my son, this, you know, cousins and friends in Texas and home and all these great things to this very isolated life that we were all forced to live at that time. And so there we are in our home, my son, my husband, and myself. And when the world reopened, I noticed a child who was incredibly outgoing and vocal and opinionated at home, but then in the world was super shy, fearful. And it's been my journey to teach him what's on the other side of that fear can be new places and new faces. And that's the inspiration for the book.
- [29:16]
Reshma Sajani
You decided to try for a baby in midlife. Did you always want to be a parent?
- [29:20]
Tamron Hall
This is gonna sound mean, and I don't mean it to be that way. That sounds good to me. I think most people think they're gonna be a parent. That said, I have a number. I'm 54. Now I have a number of my girlfriends, my very close inner circle who are not moms, and two or three that are like, I never wanna be a mom. But if I dug down deep inside, I'm sure at some point they thought, do I want kids? I mean, it crosses all of our minds.
- [29:50]
Reshma Sajani
It's true. So I too did. I did a. I had, you know, multiple miscarriages before I had my child. I had something called rotating APS. So every time I got pregnant around 12 weeks, my, my, my body would attack the fetus. And so I spent a lot of time in IVF clinics. And it was really eye opening too, right. How much you realize the privilege, right. That there are so many women out there like me who are just desperately want to be a mom, but like can't afford one cycle, much less the five cycles that you have to do.
- [30:26]
Tamron Hall
Which is why, you know, I felt a little guilt to your point, that here I was, you know, able to afford these rounds and recognizing that, that that wasn't everyone's journey and I had to release that guilt. You know, I felt that same sense of guilt knowing that I grew up in a rural town and now I live a life that I'm sure there are kids who grew up with me would be way better talk show hosts. I had to release that guilt and reconcile that all of our lives are special and unique and we shouldn't feel guilt about success and we shouldn't feel insignificant because of failures or setbacks. You talked about running for office, you know, and I just.
- [31:14]
Reshma Sajani
Right.
- [31:15]
Tamron Hall
And so when I, I walked in to one clinic and had a similar feeling, but I left doggedly determined that if I was going to get on TV and have this talk show that I would have transparent conversations about it. We just did a show on egg freezing. And I know people often talk about egg freezing. They kind of said like, oh, like, is it if you put two eggs in the refrigerator, you walk away, you're going through a whole ivf, except for the transfer.
- [31:42]
Reshma Sajani
That's right.
- [31:43]
Tamron Hall
They all talked about this embarrassment of freezing their eggs and wanting to tell people that because I think again.
- [31:50]
Reshma Sajani
Oh, really?
- [31:50]
Tamron Hall
Yeah, because you know why? Because I think sometimes society makes you want to feel like a badass by saying, I never want kids, I'm good without it, when in fact it's okay to want it.
- [31:59]
Reshma Sajani
That's so interesting. It's such a good point. It's such a good. And I think we're in this moment in society where we are celebrating that I don't need love. I don't need to get married. I don't need to get to the point.
- [32:11]
Tamron Hall
That's why we're in a loneliness epidemic. I mean, the surgeon general said. Was it two years ago that we're in a loneliness epidemic? We celebrate the loner as if it is a gift to be okay by yourself. And it is. Both can be true. You know, the celebration of independence, but also a celebration of knowing that we are social creatures. Love of something other than ourselves is important and should be celebrated as an empowering thing because it is empowering to love.
- [32:40]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah, it's true. I think it's why we have a crisis of masculinity right now. I've been writing a lot about this. Right. Is because I think men just have much fewer friends, much fewer interactions. They're not dating in the same way. I remember when we were growing up, you just went to a bar and like, yeah, who knew, right? What was going to happen here? You go to a bar and everyone's on their phone. I'm like, what y'all doing?
- [33:00]
Tamron Hall
Yeah. You talk about masculinity and how that's defined. You know, when people see my book, my children's book, they see a child of color on the COVID Yeah. What they are missing, though, is this wasn't about inclusivity as it relates to race. It was. As a mother of a boy, I have been on this incredibly enlightening journey of recognizing that so much of the literature and the media that I consume help empower me. But society, I feel, and the statistics show somehow we believe to empower young women meant to ignore boys. And so now we are seeing, I think it was around a million fewer boys graduate than girls. And, you know, the way that schools are structured, sometimes appeal to what science says is as an environment conducive to settling in and being quiet versus what young boys may need to celebrate the way they learn. And in my research and in talking to other women who have children who identify as boys in some of these traditional traits, that's why it was important for the protagonist to be a little boy. Because I found that a lot of what I consume, whether it's Judy Blume or, you know, Toni Morrison or, you know, whatever. Ntosaki Shange, whatever helped me become an empowered woman. Right. We are. I am. You are. The result, I hope, of the correction that is needed and was needed to make us feel empowered, to make us feel like the only doll option wasn't a baby alive, you know, but when I started out with my son, and looking at a lot of especially social and emotional books. They were through the lens of a female character or a dragon or something and not this little boy who's on a social emotional journey of facing fear. And as we tell children now it's okay to cry. We should also in this arc say fear is natural. Curiosity is also a cure to that.
- [35:27]
Reshma Sajani
As a parent, I'm constantly having to think about my family's nutrition. I want what's best for them, but it can be really overwhelming hearing about all the newest food trends and navigating grocery store aisles trying to understand the beyond confusing nutrition labels. That's why I love Thrive Market. My go to online grocery store for getting all of my healthy essentials delivered and I don't even have to leave my couch. I don't know about you, but I want to be able to pronounce the ingredients on my kids snack labels. With over 10,000 food additives allowed in the US it's hard to know what's actually safe to eat. That's why I love Thrive Market, the no junk online grocery store that bans over a thousand harmful ingredients. Their team of product researchers do the hard work for me and my family so I don't have to spend hours reading labels and they have all the hard to find brands at the best prices. My kids are currently obsessed with Annie's Organic Snack Mix. They love it when I throw it in their lunch boxes or have some ready for them at home for an after school snack. I love that Thrive Market has a Buy it Again feature so it's easy to repurchase the items my family loves the most. Also, who doesn't want to shop with mission driven brand? Thrive Market seeks out the highest quality brands that follow ethical practices and strict quality standards. They also accept SNAP EBT and offer free memberships for low income families through their Thrive Gives program. Ready to make the switch? Go to thrivemarket.com midlife for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T H R I V E market.com midlife thrivemarket.com midlife hey midlifers, I want to tell you about a podcast you should check out. It's called ADHD aha. Hosted by Laura Key, it's candid stories from people who share the moment it clicked that they or someone they know has adhd. You'll hear real stories about what ADHD symptoms can look like and how a diagnosis can change someone's life. They even talk about how ADHD can be a factor behind impulse spending trouble making decisions and social anxiety. I've been wanting to learn and explore more about how ADHD impacts women's lives during midlife. So many women are experiencing late in life ADHD diagnosis because it was overlooked while they were younger. So I was really excited to discover ADHD aha. I checked out one of their episodes about burnout and thought it was so eye opening. They had an amazing in depth discussion on how ADHD can lead to burnout when we aren't taking care of ourselves and what signs we should be looking for when facing potential burnout. Seriously, this is a must listen episode for anyone with or without ADHD to listen to ADHD aha. Search for ADHD Aha in your podcast app. That's ADHD Aha with aha spelled aha. Who doesn't love good things in life? Even though I enjoy a little luxury, it doesn't mean I can always afford it. Until I discovered Quince. Quince is my go to for luxury essentials at affordable prices. Now I can experience all the luxury with half the price. Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50, washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry. And here's the kicker, all Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices in premium fabrics and finishes. I love supporting sustainable, ethical fashion. I bought my Mongolian cashmere collared cardigan for this winter and it has become one of my favorites. Crafted from 100% grade A Mongolian cashmere, this cardigan makes me feel so luxurious and cozy when I wear it. It's perfect for winter, but it can also easily transition to the spring, making this a closet staple year round. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.com midlife for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com midlife to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com midlife so wait, did you have you shared it with your son yet? And what was his reaction?
- [40:05]
Tamron Hall
Oh gosh yes. We know he read it and reread. He loves it. He, you know, he says that's me and I'm like okay, you don't have a lock on the name Moses, because he happens to have a lot of religious books where I'm like, there's somebody else named Moses, buddy. You know, I hope that. That he enjoys the story every time he reads it. And he does. And I. I want it to always ignite a conversation about facing the fears. And, you know, the other day we went somewhere, and my son was like, I don't want to go in. And he's like. I said, well, yes, you can. He goes, I'm kind of scared. I said, well, that's okay, because it's a lot of people. And I'm like, it's okay. We'll go in together. I said, you know, I still get afraid. I still. I'm in control in my studio because that's my home. That's my safe space. But, you know, when I go into places on a daily, I get butterflies, I get nervous. And so I wanted it to be a jump start of a conversation about fear as we have now evolved in how we talk about tears. Right. And how we talk about it's okay to cry. And we don't say big boys don't cry or big girls don't cry. So crying and fear is in that social, emotional arc.
- [41:13]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. I think fear is a superpower, too. I think, to me, I give a million speeches, but if I'm not afraid, I'm like, something's wrong. I don't care. Like, if I don't feel that sweating underneath my arm, it's like, fear's a good thing. And I think that we have to use it more as our superpower, especially for kids, rather than getting them to suppress it.
- [41:31]
Tamron Hall
Thank you for saying that. And that's exactly why I wrote the book. You know, there were many things that came up, you know, as far as the journey of being a parent for a whole five years, you know, but this one was something that was authentic to our journey. It's sincere. It also resonates with me. You know, I was a very shy person. I still am in many ways, and people are surprised to hear that. And. And I'm trying to in this world where sometimes, again, we forget that fear is an okay emotion.
- [42:04]
Reshma Sajani
Yes.
- [42:05]
Tamron Hall
And we don't bury it, and we don't shame you for being afraid of something. And we certainly don't, for children, make it the total sum of who they are.
- [42:14]
Reshma Sajani
Right. This isn't your first book.
- [42:16]
Tamron Hall
Yeah.
- [42:17]
Reshma Sajani
What are you looking forward to in your writing career and any new ideas that you want to, like, explore or, like.
- [42:25]
Tamron Hall
Yeah.
- [42:25]
Reshma Sajani
Seize upon?
- [42:26]
Tamron Hall
Oh, absolutely. Much of what You've asked me today, you know, the journey of what it feels like to bet on yourself, what it feels like to not win, but still win in the loss. Most people want the best life that they can get for themselves and the kids, not at the expense of other people, despite what the world might tell you, you know, And I think that that's what I want to explore in my next chapter of life in my next book is really this notion of how to bet on yourself and what does that take? And it doesn't mean alone. This journey is not meant to be alone. You may not marry, but you will have friends that will love you so deeply that when you don't win, they want to sit there and say to you, well, how do we get this win? How do we help you? You know, how do you build that community? And that's important to me.
- [43:20]
Reshma Sajani
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Well, thank you for this wonderful conversation. This was so inspiring. And everyone, please, please, please pick up Harlem Honey. It was such, it's such an incredible read. So thank you so much, Tamara.
- [43:32]
Tamron Hall
I appreciate it.
- [43:46]
Reshma Sajani
That's it for my conversation with Tamron Hall. Make sure you check out her book Harlem Honey. And of course, tune in to the Tamron hall show if you haven't yet. Now's a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll get bonus content like comedian Phoebe Robinson talking about her experience interviewing the one and only Michelle Obama. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That's lemonadapremium.com thanks and we'll be back next week. I'm your host Reshma Sajani. Our producer is Claire Jones. Our associate producer is Isaura Asavez. This series is sound designed by Ivan Kurayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltock. Our senior supervising producer is Kristen Lepore and our senior producer is Chrissy Pease. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oja Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in midlife. You can submit your story to be included in the show@speakpipe.com midlife follow my so called midlife wherever you get your your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye.
- [45:40]
June Diane Raphael
Want more from your favorite Lemonada Media podcast? While supporting the shows that help make life suck less, subscribe to Lemonada Premium today. As a subscriber, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like never before heard interviews, behind the scenes moments, bonus episodes, and so much more. It's easy to sign up no matter what podcast app you use on Apple. You can just click the Lemonada logo in the Apple podcast app and hit subscribe. For all other podcast apps, head to Lemonada SupportingCast FM to subscribe. That's Lemonata SupportingCast FM.
- [46:18]
Jessica St. Clair
Hi, I'm June Diane Rafiel. And I'm Jessica St. Clair and we would like to invite you on a hilarious and heartfelt journey each week on the Deep Dive. From navigating the chaos of motherhood and family to exploring the depths of grief and loss, we are just two best friends who process life together and with you guys, discover our secret to finding joy amidst the madness and get ready for unfiltered conversations about life, love and everything in between. And nails. We talk a lot about nails now. Community is everything to us at the Deep Dive. We believe in the power of connection and the strength that comes from supporting one another and we would love to have you with us. So be sure to join us every Wednesday on the Deep Dive from Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.