← My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
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- [00:01]
Reshma Sajani
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- [01:34]
Tamsen Fadal
Lemonade I'm a happy, well balanced person and perimenopause is really rocking the boat. So I feel, I don't know, unhinged a lot of the time, lots of rage, which feels kind of wild and also like deep sadness. Like I have questioned whether or not I'm depressed or if there's something wrong with my mental health. But I'm still able to pull myself out of that kind of headspace and I function fully, you know, go to work every day, take care of my kids, run a household, volunteer in the community, yada yada yada. But yeah, I just feel like there's a lot of big feelings.
- [02:29]
Reshma Sajani
Welcome to my so Called Midlife, a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani. Menopause. I have so many questions, don't you? It's so clear that women in midlife have been left behind, especially when it comes to menopause. A lack of data, a lack of conversation, and a lack of support. Today's guest took it upon herself to talk to OB GYNs, neuroscientists, dentists, hormone experts, and more to spread the truth about what is happening to our bodies during this part of our lives. And it's important because, I mean, you can be in the thick of it for up to 10 years. Tamsen Fadal is an award winning journalist and her latest endeavor is a doc called the M Factor, Shredding the Silence on Menopause. And I'm so glad she's on our show because when I watched the M Factor, I couldn't believe how much I didn't know. Tamsen first went viral on TikTok for talking about menopause in 2020. In our interview, we talked about when she first knew that she was going through menopause, what shocked her while making this documentary, and a lot about the evolving conversation around hormone therapy. I really want to know what you think after listening to this because this is just the start of an ongoing conversation about the pause here at my so called midlife. Let's get started. Hey. So I love doing this because we just saw each other, so it's like, I feel like I already know you.
- [04:02]
Tamsen Fadal
I know. Me too. We're continuing the conversation, right?
- [04:06]
Reshma Sajani
We always start by asking, like, did anything happen to you this past week that made you feel a little like midlife? Like, oh, shit, there it is.
- [04:17]
Tamsen Fadal
Oh my gosh, I feel like I have an oh, shit, there it is. Like five times a week. Yes. This. You know what I did this week? I had the light on the back of my phone on, you know, like the flashlight on. Everyone says it's very boomer. And so I was walking around like that and I walked past a group of kids and one of the guys was like, your phone light's on. And I went like, I was trying to be cool.
- [04:40]
Reshma Sajani
You're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because what do they say? Like, oh, boomer, right?
- [04:45]
Tamsen Fadal
What's the word?
- [04:45]
Reshma Sajani
Boomer. Oh, boomer.
- [04:47]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah. And I just went, gosh, I was so cool up until that little moment. So that was it. That was my moment.
- [04:53]
Reshma Sajani
Oh, my God, that's amazing.
- [04:54]
Tamsen Fadal
Not a bad one, but a.
- [04:55]
Reshma Sajani
Not a bad one, but a reminder that you're old as fuck and we're like, no longer cool. So I want to talk about M Factor. You've got this new dock out on PBS and I told you, like, literally every woman in my life is talking about it and has seen it. And it's called M Factor Shredding the Silence on Menopause. And it was really eye opening for me too, as someone who's going through perimenopause. I sent it to my sister who's an obgyn, and we were like, literally talking about it, like, all weekend long. But I want to talk about how this movement that you're leading started. You have this scary moment at work that is literally like a. A catalyst. Can you take me back to that moment in the newsroom when it all changed for you?
- [05:41]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah. It's interesting because I didn't know it was perimenopause or menopause at the time. It was November of 2019, so it was right before the pandemic, and I was on the news set. So I'd anchored the evening news for years and years. You know, you go in several hours a day, you're live on television. What had been happening leading up to that is if I would look at the teleprompter, I'd see a word, like, I don't know, trace. And I'd look at the word, and I'd say, like, I know that word, but I don't know. I can't remember it. And I'd skip it. So if you were listening just a little closely to me, you'd go, what did she just say? She just skipped a word in a sentence. It didn't happen often, all the time, but it happened often enough to make me feel a little anxious. So that had been happening for about a year or so. But this particular night, I was sitting on the set. We were getting ready to go into our business report, which we do an evening business report to kind of sum up the day. And I started. My heart started racing, and I got this flush from the inside. You've had a hot flash before. It goes from the core, and it just spreads everywhere. So, like, my, you know, my underarm sprung a leak. My hair was sweaty underneath, and I said, oh, my gosh. So I don't know what's going on, but this is not. I can't get it under control. I used to be able to put my wrist against a cold glass of water, and my body would calm down a little bit. I said, if I fall over, somebody catch me. One of the guys across the studio. It was a. A studio of men. So, you know, I was trying to always be the cool girl, right? You know, I didn't want to be like, I feel faint. He said, are you okay? And I said, I'm actually really not sure. And he said, I think you should get off the set. So I got off the set, followed him to the women's room. He's like, is it okay for me to come? I don't know what to do. Do I come in with you? I don't And I was like, I just. I just need to be alone. And I just, like, laid down on the floor of the bathroom. And he came in. He's like, are you okay? And I said, I don't know what's going on. I need to calm down. He later told me he thought I was having a heart attack. He said I had no idea what it was, what to do, what was happening to you. So. So that started my. I feel something's wrong. I wound up going to the doctor, and I got antidepressants. That was the first thing I got for stress. And then I went to an endocrinologist. I did blood work, then I went to my obgyn, because, again, I didn't know it was menopause. I didn't run to my obgyn. About a month later, I got a note in my patient portal. I was in the airport at the time. And it had four words. It said, in menopause. Any questions from my doctor? And I was like, I'm in menopause. I'm too young for this.
- [08:05]
Reshma Sajani
And you're like, yeah, motherfucker. I got some questions. Like, what do you mean?
- [08:09]
Tamsen Fadal
I couldn't believe it. And so I'm like, what questions? You've just destroyed my life. So that's where it started for me, down a road of a lot of questions and very few answers. And I thought my story, my conversation, my. All this that had happened was very unique. And then as I started to talk to more and more and more women, I realized, anything but unique, and this affects half the population. And that's where this started.
- [08:35]
Reshma Sajani
Tam, that's so interesting. Like, when you said I felt like I was unique. So literally, to that point, none of your girlfriends have talked about this to you?
- [08:43]
Tamsen Fadal
No, no, I have different generations of girlfriends, which is, you know, is really kind of cool. I lost my mother when she was 51 years old as a result of breast cancer. And she was diagnosed when she was 44. So when I look back now, I realized she must have gone into menopause, a medical menopause. She'd be sweating all the. She didn't feel good. She was gaining weight. Like, I had no idea. The family, we would all laugh at it together. Like, she would laugh at it. And now I realize, like, oh, my gosh, my mom was in menopause, but never. And I'd never heard the word perimenopause. That was way, you know, no way.
- [09:18]
Reshma Sajani
It's so interesting. Same here. My mother never. We, like, never talked about it. Of course, she was going through it, and it was like, sex, right? Like, didn't talk about that. Didn't talk about the menopause, right?
- [09:30]
Tamsen Fadal
No, no. These topics that people, you know, they don't talk about because, you know, one day we'll whisper about them and, you know, and that's. Thank goodness we're not whispering anymore.
- [09:39]
Reshma Sajani
When's the first time you publicly said something about your experience?
- [09:44]
Tamsen Fadal
Well, I went on TikTok because I didn't know anybody there at the time, really. Like, TikTok was sort of still new. So I went on there, and I listed the 34 symptoms at the time. That's how many symptoms that, you know, I had researched and had come up. And so I did that, and I got a lot of response as a result of that. And the video got, you know, shared around quite a bit. And then it took me some time to do it publicly on, you know, on Instagram and then to do it in the news studio. And when I did do it in the studio, I said, we need to do an interview on menopause. And I remember they were like, why? What you want to talk? What. Who's going to. It's a small. Who cares? And I remember thinking like, oh, wow, maybe nobody does. And maybe I'm now, like, saying this, and I'm aging myself, you know, now. Now I'm the older person in the newsroom. I'm not the younger person in the newsroom. And then I remember I was going into a meeting with a friend of mine with some, like, fashion buyers, and we were going to just have all dinner together between newscasts. She goes, listen, don't bring up menopause. It's kind of a dirty word around these people, and they do not want to hear it. And I said, but there are four women at the table. And I did bring it up anyway. But, yeah, I started bringing it up, you know, in the studio bit by bit. And I do little things, like, I think I'm having a hot flash, and people go, oh, I wish she wouldn't say that. They try to find anything else to look at. And now they're used to it.
- [11:04]
Reshma Sajani
I thought that was so interesting. What they said in the film is that. And the brain fog piece, I think, really gets this. You know, I do a lot of public speaking, and I remember one time, right in the middle of a speech, I just went blank. And I literally thought I was going crazy or experiencing dementia. And one of the things that I think that the film really talks about, which is so powerful, is, like, we Often think that menopause is about sex, and really it's about how hormones affect. Affect our brains.
- [11:32]
Tamsen Fadal
Isn't that amazing?
- [11:33]
Reshma Sajani
Can you talk a little bit more about that?
- [11:35]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah. Neuroscientist Lisa Moscone is the one that really opened my eyes to all that. She wrote a New York Times bestseller this year called the Menopause Brain. And she says, and she shows in the film is, you know, there's the depletion of your estrogen. So when we have things going on with brain fog and we call brain fog, I think we just kind of use that universally. But brain fog could be, you know, word retention. Like, oh, my gosh, what was I. What was that word? Or where did I. What. What was I just. Or why did I come into this room? Or, you know, what was I saying? Like, you're talking about. And I think what happens with that, for me, anyway, caused a huge problem with my confidence and is where we see a lot end up in the workplace, where we see women leaving the workplace or not wanting to go after promotion because of, I think, brain fog and symptoms. But what she talks about is the fact that you really go from perimenopause, those seven to 10 years leading up to menopause, to this time where you have no period for one year. And then you come back up to what's called post menopause anytime after menopause happens. And most of the time, you know, you start to level back out again, and you might even come to the place where you were before, where you're feeling back to yourself, which I finally am getting back to after a number of years. Actually, I noticed it recently. My memorization skills are sort of back. And I went, yep, they're back. Thank you.
- [12:52]
Reshma Sajani
So how'd you feel when you first went viral on TikTok about menopause?
- [12:57]
Tamsen Fadal
Scared.
- [12:57]
Reshma Sajani
Because you're like, oh, shit, everybody knows now.
- [13:00]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, well, oh, shit, everybody knows about it. And, oh, my gosh, is this going to age me out of my career? That's what I thought. It was so superficial, but such a real fear of mine, you know, when I was in my early 30s, I sat next to a woman who was about 10, 12 years older than me in anchor, and she said, you know, just be aware that eventually you're going to age out of, you know, this career and find something else. You don't see very many older women sitting next to younger men. And so I was young and. And I got that piece of information from somebody who I thought, you know, is so super successful. But was just like, hey, just warning you. And so that was always sitting in the back of my mind as this fear of irrelevance. And like, I would, I would joke sometimes, but not funny. I'd be like, oh, good, my key card still works. Going into the studio now, we see it a little bit different. You know, we see older women that are on television or women past like 40 on television. But, you know, that's not what it was like for a long time.
- [13:55]
Reshma Sajani
You know, I had a friend. You always have like a friend in your friend group that's like, you know, five to eight years older than you.
- [14:00]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah.
- [14:01]
Reshma Sajani
And she would be constantly talking about her hot flashes and how she was feeling, and we were still talking about our careers. And she was like, just you wait. And when you're hearing someone else talk about it, when you're not there yet, you're just kind of like, I don't want to hear about this yet because I know it's coming and it doesn't sound pleasant.
- [14:18]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah. So I think what I try to do when I talk about it is say like, this isn't so you're afraid. This is so you have a better experience at it. Because if you know, look, knowing is half of it, right? If you know what to expect, you're not feeling like, oh my gosh, is it just me? Because that's what I. I felt like it was just me and there's some terrible thing wrong with me and now I was going to be. And. And a lot of it was wrapped around the ageism part of things. Like, I'll be honest about that. Like that that was a big part of it.
- [14:58]
Reshma Sajani
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- [18:17]
Tamsen Fadal
You know, we need so much more. We have so many questions, we have so many changes and we have so many needs. So when I looked at this whole space, you know, was one part of saying like, okay, we need to educate women. Then when I realized we need to educate doctors too, which was so shocking to me when I started doing these interviews and I'd have these doctors say, yeah, I got an hour of training in medical school, or I got a month that I'm an ob gyn, or yeah, I had to do. I had to Google it on my own after my patient left the office. Like, that was stunning to me. When it comes to research, and we know a bit when it comes to hormone therapy and, you know, HRT and understanding estrogen and progesterone and testosterone. But when we look at some of this, it's a very small number of people that are taking it. Because we had a big study that was done, the Women's Health Initiative, that really turned this whole world on its head, confused a lot of women, made women think that they were gonna have breast cancer if they took estrogen. The number of women went from 40% taking estrogen down to 4%, down to like, 1.8% now, depending on the demo.
- [19:20]
Reshma Sajani
Tamsen, can you. For our listeners, can you go back, when was that study done? Why was it so seminal? Can you walk us through that?
- [19:28]
Tamsen Fadal
There was a study in 2002, the Women's Health Initiative, that was a long study that was supposed to be looking at heart and cardiac and women. And what it did is it looked at women that were outside of the age group of what we're talking about when we talk about menopause. And what came as a result of this long, long study, that's kind of the high end of it, was that estrogen can cause breast cancer in a certain number of women. And that's all the media heard, and that's all that women heard at the end of it. The people in the study, many of them were not even in menopause. They were dealing with a different type of estrogen at the time, not the one that we have, you know, that most women are prescribed now. They were also. A lot of them were smokers. And so there was a lot of things in that study that didn't add up to where, you know, to what they needed to have as the end result. But it was a study that scared women. Since then, studies have been done since then, the Menopause Society has put out guidelines, but for some reason, none of that sticks. And instead, women just still have that fear. So anytime that I talk about hormone therapy and I. And I don't just. I advocate for women not suffering, Whether you decide you want to do hormone therapy or you don't want to do that and you want another approach, but you've at least got it, know what's going on and have some truth. But the data did not support in the end of that study that hormone therapy or estrogen would cause breast cancer.
- [20:55]
Reshma Sajani
How is the medical field starting to shift its perspective on hrt?
- [21:01]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, it's interesting. It's about research, but also education. So I think that a lot of women are coming into doctor's offices now, understanding this new information, hearing things on social media, reading more, educating themselves. There's more articles than we've ever seen before. And they're going into doctor's offices saying, hey, I think I might want to try hormone therapy. And a lot of times doctors will say, I'm not comfortable with that, or you don't really know much about it, or it's not something I would do. In the film. One of the doctors that I just. She's just outstanding. Dr. Sharon Malone and OBGYN said when she was on hormone therapy, she went into her. I think it was her general practitioner. And her general practitioner said, like, you know, I'm not a fan of hormone therapy. This is to an obgyn. And she said, you know, I didn't ask. But the truth is, if we're talking like that to another doctor, can you imagine what's happening to real women that are walking in to those doctor's offices? So I think there's a shift in terms of learning more and hearing more and understanding more from doctors, but there's still a lot of work to be done.
- [22:00]
Reshma Sajani
Let's talk about some menopause symptoms.
- [22:02]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah.
- [22:03]
Reshma Sajani
What are some of the things that can happen to your body?
- [22:05]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, you know, it's. There's 34 kind of most common symptoms. Then a friend of mine just really. Or just published something that said there's over 100, but we won't go to the hundred because I don't want to scare anybody. We obviously know hot flashes, weight gain is one of them. Brain fog, a very big one. I find that to be the most debilitating, honestly, when it comes to workplace. You can. You have dry skin, brittle hair. There's dental problems that we've learned now that come with that because the lack.
- [22:34]
Reshma Sajani
Of estrogen, that was wild, right? Most people will lose a tooth.
- [22:38]
Tamsen Fadal
Isn't that unbelievable?
- [22:39]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah.
- [22:39]
Tamsen Fadal
And I did. That was crazy. And I thought it was chewing ice. And I'm like, now it's menopause. I just thought it was my ice problem. What else? Oh, sleep. Sleep issues.
- [22:49]
Reshma Sajani
Sleep.
- [22:50]
Tamsen Fadal
Night sweats is one. There's hot flashes, cold sweats. Sleep is a big one too, because I think that that kind of rounds everything up. I think when you don't sleep, who wants to go work out? Who wants to try to eat right? You just want to kind of get through the day. But the symptoms are and anxiety and depression can come with that too. And I think that what happens is oftentimes you have one of those or two of those. So if you're feeling anxious or depressed, you're playing whack a mole with some of your symptoms. For me, I talked to my therapist and my GP first. I didn't go to an obgyn because those didn't seem like obgyn issues. And so I think it's interesting to see now that we've kind of opened, I hope we've opened women's eyes a little bit to say, hey, maybe this could be that as a first line of defense versus going, trying to deal with weight loss, deal with sleep, deal with brain fog, deal with, you know, all these things separately.
- [23:42]
Reshma Sajani
What's complicated is there's a set of symptoms that you could say, just write it out. Like you're intermittent sleeping. Like I have a four year old, I'm intermittent sleeping right now. Right. You got a little bit of anxiety. Is that, is that my hormones or is that like what's going on in the world? And then there's things that really some of these like really affect dementia, cardiovascular, increased rates. You know, in that case, really considering HRT makes sense. Right? So what would you say to somebody who's like, yes, I am suffering, but I'm nervous about the risks? Like, what do you say?
- [24:18]
Tamsen Fadal
I think when I look at it, I'm always looking at the long term health consequences of brain, bone and heart. And so I know that, you know, when you've got the estrogen going back into your body again, those long term health consequences are what we should look at versus the day to day suffering. And so that's how I think about it. If you're thinking that estrogen is going to cause breast cancer, that's not what the data is supporting.
- [24:38]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah, I think right now it's like we also just need to have knowledge. One of the other things the film fascinated me about was testosterone. Like, yes. I was like, can I get some, like, talk to me about, where do I get that? Talk to me about testosterone. Why it's important.
- [24:54]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, I mean, libido is, you know, is the big testosterone key. That was something I did not do until about a year and a half to two years ago. I really, I was nervous, you know, when I started hormone therapy, I was not. I thought, let me just start a little bit at a time. So I did estrogen and progesterone. I had zero sex drive, like none. And I got remarried at the age of 50. So I was like, oh, married and menopause. Great. And my poor husband, you know, he's been through so much. He's like, so first you. You were in perimenopause. Now that we know that part. And now. So anyway, he's been a saint. But testosterone is not FDA approved for a women's version of it. So we use a man's. And we use a. A portion of a man's version 1:10. And it's a little squirt. I mean, it depends on how you do it. I do it as a cream and I switch arms. It goes day to day. But it's increased my libido and my, you know, my sex drive. And I see a difference with that. I was very nervous about it because I was like, is it going to change my voice and make me have hair? But that's not what we're talking about. You have to make sure that you're monitored by it. I do get my blood tested to make sure that my levels are, you know, where they should be. But we have testosterone. We had it before, so it wasn't like we're adding to it, you know, something that wasn't in our body before.
- [26:09]
Reshma Sajani
And it's also good for bone health, right?
- [26:12]
Tamsen Fadal
Absolutely, Absolutely. And I. And I think that, you know, Dr. Kelly Casperson was. Was in the film and talked about it, and, you know, she's been really brilliant with the movement to talk about it and to figure out a way forward with it. And look, do we have a women's, you know, women's version of it? No, we have it to get it compounded at the pharmacy. So I feel like there's just so many hoops for women to go through. And so when you go back and say, like, where do we start? We got to get rid of some of these hoops, because everybody can't do that. We need access to this stuff. Like, people can't spend time or money or any of that. Going to five doctors to try to figure out what's happening and then beg them for solutions. It's not okay.
- [26:48]
Reshma Sajani
Right. So one of the things, you know, I spend my day fighting for childcare and paid leave. And one of the things I always found so fascinating is that, like, the uptake of menopause benefits and work are actually faster and are rising faster than fertility benefits did. And it's so powerful because I think so many women who are moms, we didn't ask for the things that we needed in the workplace. We sucked it up. We breastfed in closets. You know, we put networking lunch instead of saying that our child was sick. And by the time we get to menopause, we're like, fuck it. Like, I'm gonna tell you what is happening here, and I'm gonna ask for what I need, and I don't care if you feel uncomfortable talking about my vagina. But, like, that's what's going on. And I thought that that's been so incredible. Is it this sense that women have come to this, like, enough?
- [27:37]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, I think it's a couple of things. I mean, I think, first of all, there's so much money lost right now because over the years, women have left the workplace or they've not gone after promotion, or they're not being retained by the workplace because they just feel like they can't function, so they leave it. So I think that that's something that we've paid a little bit of attention to over the past few years, which is good. But I do think that. That this generation of women is, like, enough. Like, I want to. I want to do this job, and I want. And I want to do it much longer. You know, we're not retiring anymore, necessarily. We're spending more time in the workplace. We're at the height of our careers. We're taking on bigger positions than we ever have, finally. And I think that we're like, we got worked this hard to get there. This isn't what's going to deter me. So you're going to help me figure it out. I mean, I went to my workplace and it was maybe three years ago now, and I said, we need a workplace policy. And it was a woman, and she's like, okay, for menopause. She goes, what is that? And I'm like, I don't know, but I know they did it in the UK and we need to do it here. And so then I was, like, bringing in all this work, you know, but. But then it has to go through lawyers, has to go through all this stuff. So I am hopeful that we can find some really good ways to make that easier, which is what we're trying to do. So when you do you have a woman that's in the workplace and says, like, I need some help or support or anything, you know, I don't just want you to throw a fan on my desk and be like, oh, that's the one with menopause. Like, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about real, actual support and access. So I'm feeling good about that. I just think that we're tired of not speaking up. We're tired of being tired and not speaking up.
- [29:10]
Reshma Sajani
How do we make sure they don't fuck us? Because I. What I worry about is, like, right. It's what happened with pregnancy. Oh, you're going to have a baby. Great. I'm going to take away 6% of your income. Or I'm not going to give you that promotion because all of a sudden you're going to be distracted. Oh, you got hot flashes. Probably means you're not gonna be as productive. So we're just not gonna promote you, which is we already see the fact that women, once they reach 50, have lower rates of promotion than men. Yeah. So how do we make sure they don't use this? Use our honesty against us? Yeah.
- [29:40]
Tamsen Fadal
I would say it's almost 50, 50 part of this conversation right now. Because we're boldly going in and saying, we need this. And then we're also saying, like, but don't use it against us. Somebody stood up at one of the screenings in Montclair and raised her hand and she's like, look. She goes, I feel like I'm lucky right now to still be in the workforce. And I was like, but that's the mindset that we have to stop too. Like, you're not lucky. You deserve to be there.
- [30:02]
Reshma Sajani
I think what we learned from the pregnancy discrimination or discrimination in being a mom is that the wrong strategy was to hide it. Like, I like the strategy of, like, asking for it, demanding it.
- [30:13]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah.
- [30:27]
Reshma Sajani
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- [33:24]
Tamsen Fadal
Yes.
- [33:24]
Reshma Sajani
You co starred in a docuseries in 2009 called Matched in Manhattan. Yes. You were a coach. Right. On Lifetime. I saw that you've been offering dating advice to your community. How do you think perimenopause and menopause affect relationships? You know, it's funny, I had to have, I feel like I've been on this emotional rollercoaster and I'm already someone who can go from like 0 to 100 in a second. And now because of, you know, what's going on with my hormones, like it's even faster. And in our couple service I was like, you know, and my body is like you know, going nuts and I just don't. And as someone who likes to be in control, likes to be, you know what I mean? It throws me off. And so how do you. You seem to have gone through all the stages, right, with your husband. Like how do you talk about this in your relationships? And how do also like, when you're in a new relationship at 50, it's.
- [34:27]
Tamsen Fadal
Like, yeah, hey, I just want to let you know, aside from not wanting to ever be in love, I also am in menopause.
- [34:33]
Reshma Sajani
I'm also going to be, like, a raving bitch. You know what I mean? And I don't know when.
- [34:38]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, I might not always be like this mentally, physically, or emotionally. It's a really. It's such a great question. It's such a deep question because I. A few things. So I didn't know I was in perimenopause when I first met him, and I now realize I was. So, you know, great for him to be dealing with that. But I do think it really affects relationships. It affected our relationship. You know, 50 years old and I'm on my honeymoon and don't want to have sex. Like, huh? And it made me feel like there was something wrong with me. Or I was like, oh, my gosh, is it me? Am I, like, fighting this? Am I. You know, it was my body, like, what's going on? All of it. All of it. And so it's interesting, like, when I started to make those changes and take care of myself and realize what I needed to do and realize what was really happening with me, how different my body felt, how different my mind felt. But when you're in that, while you were listing off those things, I'm like, oh, God, I've had all those. A nap in the afternoon, itchy hair, my hair started, all of it. Nothing looks the same or feels the same. And then I think that lack of confidence you carry into a relationship because it's hard not to, right? And a lot of times they partner is like, is it me? Is it something I did? And I've talked to a lot of women who are worried about that and want to make sure that they're preserving their relationships but also being true to themselves. So I'm hopeful that the more we talk about this openly, the more that it's not going to be so hard to have that conversation with a partner or another person. I know that few people that I've talked to said, like, I watched the documentary with my husband and we sat there and cried, and we had a date night with it because now it was easier to have somebody else explain what was going on, you know what I mean, and see those similarities. Then you or me explain it to the person. And so I thought that was a good thing. But I. But it did tell me that aside from the documentary, that educating partners, men in particular, is Going to be really, really important for us to do. We can't leave them out of the conversation.
- [36:35]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. So for women who think they're going through menopause or perimenopause, their body's starting to feel weird, their brain is starting to feel weird. What's the first thing they should do?
- [36:47]
Tamsen Fadal
Well, that's, it's exactly where I want people to be, is find somebody to talk to. Because I, I think that the, the last thing we want people to do is suffer. I put together a symptom tracker so I have a place where you can check things off and say, like, I've got five of these here, Doctor. This is what I'm dealing with. Is this what I'm dealing with? Because the last thing I want women to do is play whack a mole with these symptoms.
- [37:08]
Reshma Sajani
What do you think is like, the first thing they should do, though, to feel? Is it a symptom tracker?
- [37:13]
Tamsen Fadal
I think it's keeping track of your symptoms, whether it's a symptom tracker, you're writing it down. I think you should know what's going on with your body. I do. I think if you're having hot flashes and you're having five of them a day, you need to know because that could be a risk. Like, those are, those are. That puts you at a higher risk. I think you need to know what's going on with your body and you have to keep track of that. I think having a support system. We did a survey recently and out of everything women said a support system was the most important thing they had, which I was, I was shocked by, like, I, I thought it was important and up there I didn't realize it was going to be number one, which I thought was fascinating. But having somebody to talk to about it is important, but I do think that that's the first thing.
- [37:50]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah.
- [37:50]
Tamsen Fadal
And I think that getting, getting knowledgeable about stuff, I mean, getting, not denying it and being like, I'm too young for that. I don't want to deal with that. That's not what I want. I'll suck it up and go through it because I don't think that you, you want to suffer day to day. I don't think you want to suffer physically, mentally, emotionally, and I don't think you want to suffer long term.
- [38:07]
Reshma Sajani
So you are crushing your menopause era. You literally went viral on TikTok with like millions of folks, like basically in your early 50s, right?
- [38:17]
Tamsen Fadal
Yeah, my early. Yeah, my early 50s.
- [38:20]
Reshma Sajani
Early 50s, yeah. So do you feel like you're aging out of your career or you're like at the cusp.
- [38:26]
Tamsen Fadal
I feel like I'm aging in. Ooh, I love that I'm aging in. Yeah, I feel like I'm aging into a new time. That's how I feel. I feel like a little bolder. Every day is not perfect, you know, I feel. But I do feel like excited about every day. And I hadn't felt like that for a long time. You know, I went through those years in my 40s where I was like, what the hell is going on? And every day I'd wake up like, now what now? What am I supposed to be doing now? How am I going to get. How am I going to be successful? Is this, what am I supposed to do next? How am I going to be more, you know, I don't feel like that anymore. I feel like, okay, I'm aging into this part of my life. But, you know, but I know who I am and I know the message that I want to share and there's something nice about that.
- [39:07]
Reshma Sajani
Yeah. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you for this documentary and it was wonderful talking to you.
- [39:13]
Tamsen Fadal
Thank you for the time.
- [39:23]
Reshma Sajani
Tamsen Fadal is a journalist, writer and menopause advocate. Her book how to Menopause comes out in March 2025. You can watch her documentary the M Factor, Shredding the Silence on Menopause on pbs. And please do. It really is jam packed with interesting stuff about what we go through during midlife. I personally walked away from our conversation feeling like we need so much more research on menopause and we have so much more to learn and I'd love to hear your reactions. You can always leave us a voicemail at the link in our show notes. That's it for now. Bye. There's more of my so called Midlife with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Midlife Advice that didn't make it into the show. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts, I'm your host, Rashmi Sajani. Our producer is Claire Jones. This series is sound designed by Ivan Korayev. Our theme was composed by Ivan Karaev and performed by Ryan Jewell, Ivan Koraev and Karen Waltok. Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lepore. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie whittleswax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in Midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this show@speakpipe.com midlife follow my so called Midlife wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Bye. Why hello there. This is your pal Sarah Silverman. You know, the standup comic that's not afraid of a diarrhea joke. Oh my God, I'm so brave. I hope you're enjoying this podcast that you're listening to. I am just dropping in here to let you know about another podcast I think you'd like and it's called the Sarah Silverman Podcast. Each week, listeners from all over the world call in and they ask me for advice or they talk about something going on in their life. Anything, their silliest, grossest, deepest, darkest situations. And then I respond, whether I'm qualified to or not. Go ahead, search for the Sarah Silverman Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Bye. People love to pretend that there are.
- [42:04]
Tamsen Fadal
Simple formulas for living your best life. Now eat this and you won't get sick. Manifest it and everything will work out.
- [42:12]
Reshma Sajani
But there are some things you can choose and some things you can't.
- [42:16]
Tamsen Fadal
And it's okay that life isn't always getting better. I'm Kate Bowler, and on Everything Happens.
- [42:23]
Reshma Sajani
I speak with kind, smart, funny people about life as it really is.
- [42:28]
Tamsen Fadal
Beautiful, terrible, and everything in between.
- [42:33]
Reshma Sajani
Let's be human together.
- [42:35]
Tamsen Fadal
Everything Happens is available wherever you get your podcasts.