Your Midlife Skincare Routine with Sunday Riley

Summary

Podcast Summary: My So-Called Midlife with Reshma Saujani
Episode: Your Midlife Skincare Routine with Sunday Riley
Release Date: August 13, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of My So-Called Midlife, host Reshma Saujani delves into the complexities of navigating midlife with her guest, Sunday Riley—founder and CEO of Sunday Riley Modern Skin Care. The conversation explores societal perceptions of aging, the challenges of entrepreneurship in midlife, and essential skincare routines tailored for this life stage.

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Challenging Societal Views on Midlife

Reshma Saujani opens the discussion by reflecting on her recent vacation with her 22-year-old niece, Maya, highlighting the often invisible status women experience as they age. She states:

"I never opted in to being invisible." ([08:32])

Sunday Riley echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the cultural emphasis on youth and the struggle to maintain visibility and empowerment in midlife:

"Youth is equated with power in our culture. But we can say, screw that. There's so much beauty, there's so much power in midlife and beyond." ([07:14])

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Sunday Riley’s Entrepreneurial Journey

Transitioning to her entrepreneurial path, Sunday shares her humble beginnings and the pivotal moments that led to the creation of her skincare brand. Starting in her 30s as a mother of two, Sunday recounts her shift from focusing on fixing others to prioritizing her own ambitions. She reflects:

"I am my own savior in this situation. No one's going to come in and save me." ([25:28])

Her journey underscores the importance of self-investment and embracing one's unique skills, even in midlife.

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Balancing Business and Family Life

Sunday candidly discusses the challenges of managing a successful global skincare company while raising four children. She highlights the relentless demands of entrepreneurship:

"It's a continuous struggle... Every day is still really chaotic." ([12:21])

Reshma relates this to her own experiences building organizations like Girls Who Code and Moms First, acknowledging the intensified difficulties that come with midlife responsibilities.

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Skincare Routine for Midlife

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to skincare, where Sunday Riley shares her expert tips for maintaining healthy skin during midlife. She emphasizes the critical role of sunscreen:

"Sunscreen. Or like sun protection, big hat. I don't care what you do. I'm actually wearing this long sleeve black T-shirt... The sun doesn't touch me." ([42:11])

Sunday elaborates on the challenges of finding effective sunscreens, advocating for high-quality European or Asian products over American brands due to better stability and efficacy.

She also outlines her comprehensive skincare regimen:

1. Vitamin C: Applied twice daily to support collagen production.
2. Retinoids and Alpha Hydroxy Acids (AHAs): Essential for removing dead skin cells and promoting skin renewal.
3. Hyaluronic Acid and Niacinamide: For hydration and improving skin texture.
4. Ceramides: To maintain the skin’s moisture barrier, especially important as natural ceramide production decreases with age.

Key Skincare Recommendations:

• Morning Routine:

  • Cleanse the face.
  • Apply a stable form of Vitamin C serum.
  • Follow with sunscreen, reapplying every two hours when exposed to sunlight.

• Evening Routine:

  • Use retinoids to support collagen building.
  • Apply AHAs like lactic acid to remove impurities and enhance skin radiance.

• Daily Hydration:

  • Utilize hyaluronic acid and niacinamide to keep the skin hydrated and resilient.

"Vitamin C is critical... without it, you're in trouble." ([43:11])

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Personal Growth and Building Relationships

Beyond skincare, Sunday reflects on personal growth and the importance of cultivating meaningful relationships in midlife. She shares strategies for intentional friendship, inspired by Jane Fonda’s approach:

"Practice intentional friendship... 'I want to be your friend.'" ([53:25])

Sunday emphasizes the necessity of making time for oneself and others to foster a supportive and fulfilling personal life.

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Closing Thoughts and Advice

As the conversation wraps up, Sunday offers invaluable advice to aspiring entrepreneurs:

1. Don’t Overthink It: Take the plunge and learn as you go.

   "Don't overthink it because you'll... just doing it." ([56:17])

2. Seek Professional Guidance: Ensure that contracts and legal matters are thoroughly reviewed.

   "Make sure your contracts are reviewed and that you advocate for yourself." ([57:16])

Sunday’s insights blend practical skincare tips with profound reflections on personal and professional life in midlife, offering listeners a holistic view of thriving during this transformative period.

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Notable Quotes

• Reshma Saujani:

  "Is this a woman’s version of a midlife crisis? She’s determined to figure it out..." ([00:00] Introductory Description)

• Sunday Riley:

  "I never opted in to being invisible." ([08:32])
  "I'm my own savior in this situation." ([25:28])
  "Vitamin C is critical... without it, you're in trouble." ([43:11])

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Conclusion

This episode of My So-Called Midlife offers a profound exploration of midlife challenges and triumphs through the lens of skincare and personal growth. Sunday Riley’s expertise provides actionable advice for maintaining youthful, healthy skin, while her candid discussion on balancing entrepreneurship and family life resonates deeply with listeners navigating similar paths. Reshma Saujani masterfully facilitates a conversation that is both inspiring and practical, making this episode a must-listen for anyone striving to embrace and enhance their midlife journey.

Transcript

[Reshma Sajani]

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We had lots of conversations on the show about what you should eat in Midlife and this Life Kit episode really got me thinking about incorporating more beans and nuts into my diet to help with building muscle. I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal wellness. Actionable guidance I can actually use no fluff, no judgment, trusted voices and expert advice to help keep take me to the next level, however big or small. Get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting and your career. Then walk away with a game plan you can implement right away. Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement. It's about understanding how to live a little better. Starting now. Listen now to the Life Kit podcast from npr. Lemonade hey midlifers, Just a quick message before we get started. You can now listen to every episode of My so Called Midlife Ad Free with Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free access to an exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, and so many more. It's just $5.99 a month and a great way to support the work we do. Go ad free and get bonus content when you hit subscribe on this show and Apple Podcasts. Make Life Suck Less with fewer ads with Lemonade Premium. Welcome to My so Called Midlife a podcast where we figure out how to stop just getting through it and start actually living it. I'm Reshma Sajani, so I've probably mentioned on the show before that I recently took my before beautiful 20 year old niece Maya on a vacation trip with me to Anguilla and if I was honest, I was a little nervous about it because I'm approaching 50. I don't like to party all night. I want to go to sleep by 8:45 and I like to work out in the morning. But here's the thing. We had such an amazing time and it was such a reminder to me that like my hope for everybody is that they have this kind of relationship in their life where Maya's she's not my daughter and she's not my friend and to be around young people who have so much life, you know, was just such a treat. And so for all of you that are listening, lean into those relationships because they're really special. Okay, my next point. You know what else my vacation with Maya taught me? It's just a reminder of how society views women in middle age. Sunday Riley, she also has experienced this because she's got a daughter who's 19 years old. But here's the thing that Sunday told me that just really, really warmed my heart and blew my mind. She said, I never opted in to being invisible. Damn, I love that. And isn't that the truth? So many times Sunday says youth is equated with power in our culture. But you know what? We can say, screw that. There's so much beauty, there's so much power in midlife and beyond. Sunday Riley is the founder and CEO of Sunday Riley Modern Skin Care. Sunday Riley's mission is to heal and improve your skin using green technology to create products for all types of skin and all conditions, all while keeping with its zero waste philosophy. The company is carbon neutral B Corp. Certified and working towards being plastic neutral. As a mother of four and a fellow animal lover, Sunday is devoted to the brand's core values for advocating for human rights and sustainability. Since Sunday runs a skincare brand, you know, I got some great tips and tricks for you on midlife skin care routine. And what she told me about Sun Screen blew me away. You're going to want to listen, so let's get into it. You know, when we start, we love to talk about midlife. And like everybody, Sunday feels different about like this moment of their, of their life, right? Some people are like, this is amazing. Some people are like, oh my God, like, ah, so where do you land? Like, how do you feel about midlife?

[Sunday Riley]

Oh, Lord, probably somewhere in between, depending on the day. You know, I don't think it's. I don't think it's necessarily an easy time to traverse because I do think that in our society, a lot of times youth is equated with power, right? Or it makes you feel empowered. And a lot of the messages are, you know, kind of like fearful or shameful about aging. And that's something that you know when as you do age, like, while you settle into this amazing sense of self and sense of empowerment and really feeling like yourself and your skin and say, like, wow, this is great. I would never go back. At the same time, you know, you are still kind of aware of how others perceive you. And I think, you know, it's like you want to kind of like Desperately grasp and hold onto this, while also, you know, evolving and growing into this. And it would be a lie if I told you every single day was, you know, just feeling so evolved. It's like, it's a struggle. But every. You know what? Every day of my life has been a struggle with different things. So this is just a continuation of a theme to.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah, it's so true. You know, I took my niece, who's 22 years old, beautiful like Anguilla, and every time I'm with her, I'm like reminded about the power of youth. Right. Because you get to a certain age, it doesn't matter how beautiful you look, it feels like no one sees you.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

And you only realize it when you're standing next to, you know, I mean, a youthful 20 year old where you're like, you feel like the difference, right?

[Sunday Riley]

Oh, I know it profoundly because my daughters, one of my daughters is 19 and she's beautiful and I love that. And I want her to have this amazing experience and she's. But it's absolutely about being invisible when I'm next to her, which is. It's a funny experience. And I want her to have all this great sense of empowerment. At the same time. I never opted in to be invisible.

[Reshma Sajani]

Right.

[Sunday Riley]

I'm like, I didn't opt in for that.

[Reshma Sajani]

No, no. So I think one of the biggest cons were sold in midlife is beauty and beauty products. Right. And like, when did it. Because I always say, like, you and I could get the same wrinkles, the same shifts to our body as George Clooney gets, but he's hot and we're not. Right?

[Sunday Riley]

Right.

[Reshma Sajani]

And so, and so much of that is about the industry. So I want to talk about. Cause you are an expert on these things. So I wanted to start with, like, your journey as an entrepreneur. So first of all, tell everybody who you are and how fucking badass you are and what you do.

[Sunday Riley]

Super badass.

[Reshma Sajani]

You are super badass.

[Sunday Riley]

Super badass.

[Reshma Sajani]

Sunday Riley is the shit.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah, just tell us that. Absolutely. So my name is Sunday and I started this company that, that I now I continue to run since the beginning. I started in my 30s and I was, you know, a mom of two kids. I really hadn't achieved anything that I had wanted to achieve in life. And that's a whole story. We can go down that path as well as to, you know, what happened, what went wrong, and then what that kind of like, aha realization moment was. And I shifted from focusing on fixing everyone else in my life and just Focused on saying, like, what do I want to do with my life? And kind of being a little bit more, like I said, focused on self building a company, taking advantage of the opportunities that were given. And that's where I'm at now. So I'm still running it. It's funny because everyone always wants to know kind of the origin story of how things started. And I always tell them like, the origin story is great because I already know I won the story.

[Reshma Sajani]

Right.

[Sunday Riley]

So it's got a great ending. This was the struggle, this is where I'm at. But it's actually the everyday stories that I think are significantly harder because as you're living your life, you don't know how the story ends. Right. So it's like my struggle today is significantly harder for me than my struggle was when I started.

[Reshma Sajani]

That's interesting because you don't know how.

[Sunday Riley]

It'S going to end because I don't know how it's going to end. And the problems only get bigger. And you're constantly dealing with people's sense of dissatisfaction. So it's like you're running a global consumer goods company and people are like, wow, congratulations. As it stands today, group, you've got the number one prestige skincare brand in America that's independently owned, female led. That's great. And it's, that's amazing. And at the same time, you still walk into every single retailer meeting every single whatever and they're like, well, this is great, but you really aren't meeting our expectations, like in these two ways. Or, you know, you give feedback to someone, they're like, well, let me give feedback to you. Or like, or like you put when.

[Reshma Sajani]

I don't like skincare.

[Sunday Riley]

Right, right. Or like, maybe people don't like your social post. They don't like that. But it's constantly dealing with, you know, someone saying like, you know, you didn't quite do enough and you have to navigate that and with ease and still say like, but I'm not afraid of competition. I'm constantly dealing with, you know, kind of feedback, I'll call it gently, call it feedback, dealing with. And then there's just these other trials that come, like this tariff situation, you know, sound. I know I'm not getting off into tariffs, but you know, if you're an independent brand and you know, your glasses from Italy and your pumps are from France and like you've got these certain raw materials coming from whatever and all of a sudden it's like, you know, you owe half a million dollars tomorrow for incoming Goods that there's no way that you could have prepared for that. To me, that's actually a lot harder than just starting something.

[Reshma Sajani]

You're blowing my mind a little bit, because I've been thinking about this because. So I face the same things as a social entrepreneur, right. I built Girls who Code, you know, raised $100 million, you know, $25 million organization. 100 people taught over 700,000 kids to code. And then when I started my second organization, Moms First, I was like, that's going to be a breeze. You know what I mean? I'm going to raise my first $10 million in a week. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I should be seen as, like, the. The Elon Musk. Not. He wouldn't. We wouldn't want to use that word anymore. But, like, I'm saying, like. Yeah, you don't understand what I'm saying. Right. Like, and it was fucking hard again. And. And there's something different about building something in your midlife than when you're in your 30s, because in your 30s, you kind of get off on the hustle, but it's different in midlife. Talk. Talk to me about that. Because I feel like, for me, I don't have the same energy. My body, you know, all this shit's happening in my body. I have young kids and, like, there's this sense of, like, when you walk into that meeting when you were in your 30s and you're building your business, you know, oh, maybe they will invest in me. But now, you know too much.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

And you. And. And so it's. It's different.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah, it's like you read the script already. So when you walk in and they have, like, a certain face, you're like, I know how this is going. So it's like, why am I even sitting in here right now? Why are you wasting my time? I think that for me, the experience is. I have four kids, right? So that's already, like, its own business, which is a really hard one to manage and run. And they're all different ages, so they're 7 to 19. They each have their own unique struggles and opportunities. So that takes a lot of time, and it's really important to me, you know, to try to be present. At the same time, I've got this pretty big business where every single person who's in the business wants a certain amount of time. And in a way, I owe them that. Like, I signed up for that, right? Like, I have to step up to the job. I signed up for. And I have to acknowledge like, that is, I can't say like today I'm not doing it today, I'm shirking my dude. I'm the only one that really can't do it, right. Like I said, I'll take the cape, so I got to wear the cape. Even whenever you don't feel like flying and even whenever you're giving like everything you have because maybe your 19 year old kid calls to tell you that, you know, she's freaking out about something to do with school and you're like, you got this girl. And then your 7 year old's like, this happened school. And you're like, you got this too. You've all got this and I've got all these. And then at work something's maybe not because it, by the way, it's like plot twist. Every single day, whenever you're doing anything in life is a struggle. Like it's never like, I'm like, yeah, like I crushed that every single winning day. It's more like I survived today.

[Reshma Sajani]

Woo.

[Sunday Riley]

You know, it's like, and there's little wins, but the next day it's like, oh, that little win we gave you from the universe. Here's a massive like, you know, plot twist.

[Reshma Sajani]

Here's a massive fuck you. Right?

[Sunday Riley]

Yes. And you know that. And so it can be really hard to show up every single day and say like and and then also by the way, to carve out time for yourself as an individual outside of those things. Right. That's the big thing for me is like, how do I say like, yes, I'm this person who has this company and run and does all these things. And yes, I'm this person as a mom and yes, I do those things. But like, who am I as an individual, like, who is like just Sunday as just Sunday at the end of the day when I'm like God willing, 135 and I look back on my life and I say, you know, did I do something with it? I actually don't think my business is going to be the defining thing that I look back on.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yep, that's right. So let's talk about what that looks like for you. So I'll tell you what it looks like for me. For me, I prioritize a workout every day. Everybody knows from like 9 to 10:30, you know what I mean?

[Sunday Riley]

I'm off.

[Reshma Sajani]

I'll start doing calls at 6:30 before or I'll do after. But I need that, that piece. Like that is what I get for Me, I am ruthless about my calendar. I used to be like inbox zero for Ran. You know, anybody emailed me to ask for anything, I felt like I had to you, I mean, respond back. I don't do that anymore. And that's given me back my time. I know I'm disappointing people by not having Inbox zero anymore, but like, I had to do it, you know, I mean, for myself every August, you know what I'm saying? I don't do any external meetings. Like, I really try to take time to like really dial into the family, dial into my creativity. What are the things that you've put into your life to try to fight for Sunday?

[Sunday Riley]

Well, first of all, I want to tell you I have 3500 unread text messages. So if I say, all right, you're.

[Reshma Sajani]

Making me feel better.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, if I don't have the capacity to read it and I know it's not an emergency, I know it's not from someone, I know it's like a spam or I know this and that. I just simply. I'm like, I'm not even going to click on it because I can see what it is and I'm just not going to drill into it. So I don't spend a lot of time, you know, doing things that maybe don't give back to me. I also carve out between my calendar between 7am and 10am so those three hours are mine to spend however I want. Now during the school year, that's 30 minutes of that are getting my kids out the door. But it is those theoretical three hours that are mine. And I can do anything I want to do with them. I can exercise, I can meditate, I can do whatever. And what I've started doing again is I've started writing again. So what I wanted to be like in the beginning was a science fiction or a fantasy writer and who knows, you know, but that. So I've started kind of going back to that and spending maybe it's like 30 minutes or an hour, but I'm working on this fantasy book and then I was like, well, they would have their own language. So then I started like working on developing a language and I got really into it for like three or four months into like what their language would be and like teaching myself the language. So that's something I, I do for myself. It's a non negotiable. I do think it's important that we focus on who we are as individuals. I cannot just be a mom and someone that works. I cannot accept that reality for myself.

[Reshma Sajani]

That's amazing. So you put a block of time that is just yours. That's non negotiable. Everybody knows it in your life. That is Sunday's time. That's incredible. This year my goal is to live a healthier life, but I quickly found out that it's not always easy with my busy schedule. I'm always trying to stay on top of everything and unfortunately paying attention to the foods I eat slips through the cracks. So if you're like me, juggling work or family and grabbing takeout to give yourself a break, trust me, you'll love Ritual Ritual's essential for women 50 plus multivitamin isn't exactly a salad and a pill, but it is formulated to help you fill key nutrient gaps that you may not be getting enough of from your diet. I always start my day with my multivitamin every morning so I don't have to worry about whether I'm eating the right foods all day. Plus I take their daily protein alongside my multivitamin so I'm always hitting my protein goal. 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[Sunday Riley]

Yeah, how does it begin?

[Reshma Sajani]

Take me back.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah. So in my 20s, I was married. I think I got married at 23, 24 years old. That's a whole different story. But I was very dedicated. And by the way, he didn't ask me to be dedicated to this. This is the dedication that I opted into to be dedicated into helping him to advance. And again, this wasn't something he asked for. This is something that I Just thought, I can just fix you. I can fix these situations. And then before you know it, I had a baby. And. And I was so dedicated to, like, fixing this person. And someone that I really looked up to said to me, just one day, he said to me, imagine what your life would be like if all that effort you spent trying to fix someone who doesn't want it was spent trying to fix yourself. And I was like, well, I'll get there someday. He's like, look at you. Like, you're wildly dissatisfied. You've got a baby. You're, like, seriously kind of depressed, and you're dedicated to making everyone else better and not yourself. Whenever you were probably the winning horse all along. And it was that kind of like, that tough love. And I thought, what if I am the winning horse? Like, have I been focusing on other horses? And they didn't ask me to focus on them, right? Like, it was me. So I switched to focusing on myself. And I thought, I'm just going to start saying yes to opportunities. Because when you don't have a great resume and, you know, you're full of potential, but you don't have any way of proving it, you do not have the luxury of being picky, right? You've just kind of got to say, like. And really humble yourself and say, like, I'll take. You know, I will ask for guidance for saying higher universe, whatever you want to call it, I will take anything. I will say yes. I've got to be my own cavalry. I am my own savior in this situation. No one's going to come in and save me. And so, you know, I started making a list of all the things that were holding me back. And that because I. One of my toxic traits is that I can practice avoidance. And I was like, what am I avoiding in my own life that's actually holding me back? That's, you know, what is, like, the. That kind of, like, shame or that I have or all these different things that are preventing me from putting myself out there. And so I just kind of started working on them. Started working on a book at that time period. Didn't come about, but worked on it. And then opportunities started coming to me. A friend of mine said, look, I know you love, you know, beauty and skin care, and you're really into all these things. You kind of understand it. What if I invested in a spa? Would you run it? And I was like, yes, yes. Like, without even thinking about it, yes, I'll do it. And then I helped her do the business plan for it. And do whatever. And I knew the type of money she wanted to make. And I said, you're not going to make it. Like I have to be real. As much as I want to take the opportunity. I had to be upfront with you. This is not going to be, this isn't right. And I said to her, but would you ever consider working on a, like a skincare, you know, line? Would you ever? Kind of. And there were a few other things that had happened along, along the way, but she said yes. And so therein, you know, that that was kind of the genesis.

[Reshma Sajani]

So why skin care? Because building a skincare line is not fucking easy.

[Sunday Riley]

No, but I didn't know that.

[Reshma Sajani]

I know ignorance is bliss.

[Sunday Riley]

Yes, there really is ignorance and bliss. And even if I had known, I would have done it anyhow, but I really didn't fully anticipate it and that really helped me quite a bit. And skincare was something that I knew and it was something that I felt like I naturally understood. Ingredients and raw materials and I kind of, I kind of got that type of thing was a language that I spoke. But at that time, and I really mean this with all due sincerity, it could have been selling tires, it could have been selling, you know, bottles. I would have done anything to get out of the hole that I was in. Because like I said, I had a kid and I realized, you know, living with.

[Reshma Sajani]

And are you still married at this point or.

[Sunday Riley]

No, I was. Or now at the very beginning. I got divorced pretty quickly afterwards. But you know, it's one of those things where you're kind of like, you know, I've gotta, I've gotta save myself in this situation.

[Reshma Sajani]

So you make your first products out of your parents home. How did you know where to begin? Did you experiment before you launched the company or what? How did you, you know, how did that happen?

[Sunday Riley]

So it's a little bit of a twist on that. So actually to start off with, ended up finding a formulator who was, he was a mature man at that point and he was, he was great. He and I got along like a house on fire. He was in Dallas and I had said to him, you know, would you help me create these 10 products and can you help to also teach me? And so that was kind of my start to apprenticeship. And he said to me, you know, you're, you're really good at this. He's like, I've worked with so many people and so many companies and you know, he'd been at Maybelline, he'd been on this, he's like, but you, you really get it. Like, this is, I think this is what you're good at. And I was like, which part? And he was like, you're really good at cosmetic chemistry. And so I would go up, I'd fly up, I was in Houston, he was in Dallas, and I'd fly up twice a week and I'd spend all day with him and we'd work on it together and he'd be like, now why do you like these ingredients? Because I'd come with like, these are the RA materials I want. These are the ingredients and this is why. And they'd say, okay, but if you think about this, this and this and how this will, you know, work with this. And it was just kind of this like on the job training that started this passion. So I worked with him on that. But meantime I taught myself, you know, coding. I wasn't the best, but there was no like out of the box Shopify.

[Reshma Sajani]

Because you graduated in chemistry, right?

[Sunday Riley]

No, no, I did not. I studied some chemistry, but like a baby bit. But I really wanted to be a physicist. I did not. I was like, physics was my dream, not chemistry. And now I've got probably, you know, I've got a lot of awards in cosmetic chemistry, but most of that is self taught after my mentorship. But when you do something every single day for almost two decades, you can become really, really good at it. It's like what, 10,000 hours to master something.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah, yeah. You're the second person, or maybe even the third person I've interviewed that is like, who became a sensation, you know what I mean? At like the mid part of their life. And it was like they kind of were just like, it's a connection between, oh wait, I'm good at this. But it wasn't like, like you woke up and like, I want to run a million dollar skincare. You just, you can't. You like, I want to do something with my life. And then you fall into something that you're actually really good at and you're interested in how, how would you say, what's your advice to people on how to find that? Is it just saying yes?

[Sunday Riley]

I think it's just saying yes. I think it's embracing your talents and your skill set and without being afraid of it. You know, I've worked with a lot of people where they're really good at something. And I mean really good. Like maybe it's logistics or something, or order fulfillment, but they're really good at it. And I think like you can See all the pieces. You can connect things before anyone else in a specific way. And they're like, yeah, but I actually want to be this other job that maybe feels sexier. And I'm like, but that's not what you're great at. So it's like embracing your natural greatness and actually really leaning into your natural skill set because you have it. And by the way, I would love to say that cosmetic chemistry is most of my job. That's how it started, right? But now I've been the CEO for 16, 17 years. So now what I have to really lean into is like, am I good at running a business? Am I good at hiring, firing, giving feedback, innovation, knowing what's. Knowing how to navigate issues that you couldn't handle before. And if the answer ever had become no, or ever does become no, then I'll continue to navigate and pivot. But for right now, it's also evolving a skill set as well. You know, I will say, like, the skill set of being good at. When you're like, like, if you think about the growth of a business and you're in that ultra startup phase, you're like in a garage, you're in someone's house, you're like, building it from there. That skill set, that hustle and grind. And like, you've got to be like the beacon of hope for everyone. Like, yeah, we did it. Even though, like, you know, what did you do? But, like, you got to be like that amazing, like, galvanizer of people. That's a totally different skill set to then being down the line. And you've now, you know, you've got retailers and you've got all these other issues and like, and you've got to figure out complex manufacturing issues. Those are totally different. So you yourself have to continually evolve what your skill set is and, like, lean into it. Like, I'm going to be upfront with you. I'm not so great at financial things. I'm just not. It's just not. It's not that I'm the worst, but I'm certainly not the best. And in that regard, you kind of got to say, like, well, then I need to, like, outsource that piece. That's not where I'm going to be the star. You know, I don't have a working genius in that. I don't derive joy from that piece. What part do I derive joy from? Then I'm going to be. I can be a genius at that. And really embracing the idea that I. That I can be a genius.

[Reshma Sajani]

So so interesting. I, too, love the startup phase. Really good at it. I love the Hustle. You know what I mean? I. I'm okay with failure. In fact, I. I like it, right, because it makes me feel alive. And then when. When things become sustainable and every day becomes a little bit, like, the same and it's not scary anymore, I get bored.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

Do you relate to that? Or, like, how do you know? For example, what year are you into that your business right now?

[Sunday Riley]

16, 17.

[Reshma Sajani]

So when do you know if it's time to go?

[Sunday Riley]

Well, first of all, your first question is, like, can I relate to it? Like, absolutely. I love the dopamine hit of, like, how is it going to work out today? Or, like, how do we solve this problem? And I remember right before COVID hit, I spoke to a friend of mine and I said to him, I'm just so bored. And he was like, what are you talking about? I was like, it's just. I'm just bored. Like, every day's the same. And then Covid hit, and he's like, how you doing now? And I was like, actually, I'm interested. Like, I'm trying to figure something out. If you had told me that every single store that we were in. In the world was going to shut down in the course of a few weeks, I wouldn't have thought that was possible. And I'm interested. Like, I'm back in the game. I got my life back. You know, like, my. My sense of inspiration back. Like, for me, being inspired is a really big deal. And boredom is something that I hate. So I'll say this with, like, With a bit of, like, tongue in cheek. I am blessed right now with the fact that every day is still really chaotic. You know, it's like, you know, like, things like come and go. And then I think skincare hit this massive boom. A few years ago, a lot of people said, like, this is a great industry for us to get in. So a lot of people invested in it. A lot of new brands popped up, so there's a lot more competition. There was before retailers brought in a bunch of brands. So now you're, like, fighting in a different way and you still have, like, the big whatever. So it's. The fight is still there. It's just a little bit different. But there are some days still hustling. I'm still hustling, like, yeah, yeah. It never. It never went away.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah, that's. For me, I think that's the. That's the key. I love the Hustle, too. I mean, I know, we're supposed to be over hustle culture in some ways, right? I agree with that. But I still, I like competition, I guess is what I should say. You know what I mean? I like to feel like there's a mountain that I need to like summit, you know, every day.

[Sunday Riley]

Totally. Well, for me it's like the hustle. Like, I know, like people don't like the concept of a hustle culture, and I get it because it sounds terrible on paper, but my personal experience, experience is like, I like the rush. Like, I need the rush in my life and so I like it. So I'm not saying everyone else should live it, but the way that I need to live my life with the way my brain is wired, I need the excitement and the adrenaline and I need to like, problem solve and I like to feel needed. And I like to kind of be someone that kind of dives in and like gets my hands dirty, you know, I like that. So for me, it's wonderful. And actually it's when that kind of slows down that I'm kind of like, oh, I don't want to sit there and like aimlessly work towards nothing and be bored that I hate, you know? But do I like, like I constantly. The rush.

[Reshma Sajani]

From fitness routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, we all need a little help being human. That's what the Life Kit podcast from NPR is here to do. If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit delivers strategies to help you make meaningful, sustainable change. Life doesn't come with a manual, but every day you're making choices, some big, some small, that shape the direction of your life. Life Kit offers real stories, relevant insights and clear takeaways to help you meet those decision making moments, confidence and clarity. I loved their recent episode about plant protein. We had lots of conversations on the show about what you should eat in midlife, and this Life Kit episode really got me thinking about incorporating more beans and nuts into my diet to help with building muscle. I listen to Life Kit because I get to hear thoughtful conversations that unpack the emotional and practical side of personal wellness. Actionable guidance I can actually use, no fluff, no judgment, trusted voices and expert advice to help take me to the next level, however big or small. Get help tackling common issues like relationships, finances, parenting and your career. Then walk away with a game plan you can implement right away. Life Kit isn't just another podcast about self improvement. It's about understanding how to live a little better starting now. Listen now to the Life Kit podcast from npr. As I get older, I keep catching myself thinking I should go to the doctor more. You know, to deal with things like sleep, trouble, feeling bloated after certain meals, and chronic fatigue. But it can be tough to get to the doctor. I want to keep myself healthy, but the system makes it impossible to find the right doc for my needs. Until I found Zocdoc, they made it so easy to find the right fit and book an appointment fast directly on their website. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. With Sockdoc, you can book in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care, and more. And you can even filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for your medical needs, and are highly rated by verified patients. Once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Choose a time slot that works for you and click to instantly book a visit. You can even make appointments typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. I've even found same day appointments. Getting older means we have to stay on top of our preventative health even more so, I needed to find a primary doctor that I could trust and who was qualified to help with menopause symptoms. With ZocDoc, I was able to filter for primary care doctors within my area with high rated reviews. I was able to finally find reliable care within my reach at any time. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com midlife to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com midlife zocdoc.com midlife our healthcare system is broken in so many ways. We have a health care system that's.

[Sunday Riley]

Supposed to be taking care of people.

[Reshma Sajani]

That is making it literally more difficult for people to put food on the table. So this season we'll dive into the challenges headfirst while also thinking about how we can find a better way because we all deserve better. Uncared for season three from Lemonada Media available August 6th wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jessica St. Clair. And I'm June Diane Rayfiel and we are two friends trying to survive the chaos and celebrate the joy that life throws our way. And we do it every week on our podcast the Deep Dive. Sometimes we Dig into the deep stuff, like how I communicate with my dead best friend. And sometimes we give bad advice based off a TikTok I saw. And we're not going to apologize for that. Absolutely not. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll hire a psychic medium. Join us, won't you? Listen to the Deep Dive wherever you get your podcast from Lemonada Media. So I want to talk about skincare routine. So I am obsessed with skin. Indian women are obsessed with their skin. I am turning 50 and the other day I was going out to my girlfriends and my, my son's like, oh, mommy, you look like you're 35. And I was like, I could kiss you. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, right? It's like, it's like that. The idea of like youthful skin is something that I always have prioritized. So I am a wash my face every night, have two or three creams, you know, I mean, get a facial every four weeks. So what, what do you recommend people should do? Especially like in midlife.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

Where our age spots appear. Like, you know, there's real shifts. Like what, what is like the ideal routine?

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah. So I'm a big believer to start off with. I know everyone says this and I know it's been like every article, but I'm still going to repeat it because I think it's really important. Sunscreen. Sunscreen. Or like sun protection, big hat. I don't care what you do. I'm actually wearing this long sleeve black T shirt. This is what I wear every day. This is my Steve Jobs element to my life. But I wear the same T shirt. I have like a hundred of them because I don't let the sun touch me. And then whenever I ever wear.

[Reshma Sajani]

Not even your arms or anything, like, never.

[Sunday Riley]

The sun doesn't touch me. Never. Never. I don't wear shorts, I just wear. I wear pants. I wear. I'm. I just, I burn easily. But also I just don't let the sun touch me. I even wear long hair, probably because it covers my neck. I'm like, I'm that kind of psycho about it. But when I ever wear, like, you know, like I'm going to a gala or like all these galas. I'm not really going to a lot of galas, but if I'm wearing a cocktail dress for whatever reason, people always say to me, like, wow, your skin, like your body, skin looks so young. And I'm like, it's the sun. Because the sun doesn't touch me. Right. And so it does. That kind of is like a one thing I'd say, which I know is. But I think sun is. No, it's a really.

[Reshma Sajani]

So, like, I wear the big hat and a ton of sunscreen on my face and my neck, but I don't wear it on my body. Like, I'll go play tennis, you know, I mean, in shorts and a shirt. So this is. This is a very good piece of advice. How many times do you have to reapply the sunscreen on your face in particular?

[Sunday Riley]

Okay, so also, I'm going to get into it. I actually cannot see stand. And I say this with love and hope the FDA isn't watching. I can't stand American sunscreens. And that's coming as someone who once created one. But I just. I don't. I don't. It's not the brand's faults that are here in the United States. It's our sunscreen laws that are not great. So they haven't been updated in decades. And the technology that we have here is so behind that. We have, you know, really unstable chemical sunscreens that are unstable in light. So. Oh, the irony, right, that they go on to protect uv, but they're unstable in the presence of uv, so you have to constantly reapply. And then mineral sunscreen is a real gotcha because it reflects light backwards. That's how it works. It works by reflecting uv, but it also reflects light. So if you take a picture, it can give you that white cast on your skin, unless you micronize it and make it really, really, really small. So it doesn't do that. But then it doesn't work as well because it's not reflecting the UV as well. So it's like our sunscreens are a real catch 22. So I definitely.

[Reshma Sajani]

What? Oh, my God. I'm like, freaking. You can see my face. I'm like, ah.

[Sunday Riley]

I buy sunscreens from Europe or from Asia, so I'm very dedicated to every time. You know, I'll even buy drugstore ones from, like, Garnier or La Roche Posay. I look for, like, the European sunscreens. They're significantly more advanced. I definitely put them on in the morning. There's no question. So I do all my skincare. I kind of wait or whatever. I put them on in the morning, even if I'm just inside. Because windows block uvb, but not uva, and like, A is aging, B is burning. I mean, that's kind of my shorthand for that. So I definitely put it on if I'm Outside and sweating. Like, I was just, you know, in Italy, I was sweaty. So I'd reapply, like, every two hours and just make sure that it kind of stayed on. And I kind of do this, like, if I feel the burning feeling, like, you know, when the sun stings your skin because it's hot, that's whenever. I always, like, make sure I reapply and I'm crazy. I've got hats that I can, like, turn down a little bit. I've got the big glasses.

[Reshma Sajani]

No, I'm with you.

[Sunday Riley]

I'm all. I'm dedicated.

[Reshma Sajani]

I'm with you. I'm with you. Like, I. Not. But you're. You're actually just. I need to up my game. After talking to you, I thought I was dedicated, but I got up my game. I'm going to Italy and, like, putting all the sunscreen in my, like, suitcase. Suitcase. And, like, bringing it back. So in the morning, right? Wash your face. Vitamin C, A must. What's. What's my morning. What's my morning routine?

[Sunday Riley]

So first of all, when it comes to vitamin C, I'm a big believer in using vitamin C twice a day.

[Reshma Sajani]

Okay.

[Sunday Riley]

And that's because vitamin C, I feel like we're just, you know, we're talked. We talk about, like, its antioxidant properties. That's great. It's actually a really great antioxidant. It's not the best antioxidant, though, but it's a nice one. But what vitamin C is that really makes it stellar and unique on the planet is that it's a critical part of the collagen building process. So whereas, like, retinol supports, collagen building, and, you know, acid supported and all these things. But you need vitamin C to build collagen. You need it for a lot of things as well. So without it, you're in trouble. In humans, we have a gene mutation that means that we do not produce our own vitamin C. So you. Absolutely not just us, a few other mammals too, but you absolutely need to, you know, ingest it in your diet, take your supplement, take your smoothie, whatever you want to do. And I make sure I also apply it topically because I really want to. I really want to help with the collagen building process because as you do age, your collagen, whereas before it was in these beautiful kind of like spaghetti bundles. As you age, instead of being these beautiful, like, beautiful springs in a mattress, all of a sudden those beautiful springs, the spaghetti bundles, just kind of go like this. And so your mattress Caves in. And so we want to make sure that we're creating really nice collagen bundles and really supporting that in our skin. So vitamin C is critical. However, not all vitamin C is created equal and a lot of forms of vitamin C are not stable. So it's about using a highly stable form of vitamin C. I like to use it in the morning and in the evening. And I'm kind of a, I mean, I'm all in, right? Like I wear a long sleeve T shirt every single day of my life. I'm all in. So I actually apply vitamin C throughout the day as well. So I apply it like twice during the day.

[Reshma Sajani]

On your face?

[Sunday Riley]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I just applied on my face. I got styled it on my body. But yeah, I'll keep it at my desk and I'll apply it like anytime I feel that my skin feels dry or I don't like if I move it and not to look like I'm crazy, but you know when you move, you're like, oh, it's tight or that's dry, that something's not right there. I reapply instantly. Like, I don't, like, I don't allow myself to dry out and I'm so I'm constantly reapplying throughout the day. So vitamin C. I know, okay.

[Reshma Sajani]

What else in the morning.

[Sunday Riley]

So I like to also make sure once a day it can be in the morning or in the evening. It's up to you however you want to live your life. I like to make sure that I apply an acid so not too much but not too little as well. So we want to make sure we're applying just enough to kind of remove and sweep everything away. As, as time goes on, you start to notice that glow or that kind of radiance starts to get a little bit dimmed. And it's just that, you know, it's just, just, just the way things are. So keeping all the, that refreshed on your face really does make a difference. If you over apply, you know, within a month you might go, wow, my skin actually doesn't look as great. So you want to apply just enough to kind of sweep everything away.

[Reshma Sajani]

Is there anything like as you're getting into that age right where you're getting more wrinkles, you're getting more sagging, you're losing that collagen. Is there anything that is like a must that like a supplement you have to take or something that you have to put on your face or something that you have to do?

[Sunday Riley]

So for the face, I really Believe, like, I really love vitamin C, retinoids and alpha hydroxy acids, particularly lactic acid. So those three I love. Now, I love hyaluronic acid for hydration. I love a lot of other. I love niacinamide. Like, I can write a poem about a bunch of different. But that's if you said to me three, three ingredients, that's all. Like, I can only do three products. Three. What is it? And if you came to me and said, but my skin is so dry due to maybe that's how they, how you're born, or maybe that's your lifestyle changes or maybe that's like hormonal changes. My skin is dry. I would say then we also need to really make sure that we're adding ceramides into your routine. So as we age, we produce less and less ceramides. And that starts actually around 20. So it's not like it starts at 60. We're starting that pretty young. Less and less ceramides. And as you have less and less ceramides, you can't, it really affects your moisture barrier. It's a critical part of your moisture barrier. So you can't hold the water in. So you can put all these amazing products in your skin, but they're not getting held in. And basically external irritation irritants are coming into your skin. It's a, it's a no win process. So we absolutely want to start to supplement ceramides and just kind of figure out your skin. And by the way, as time changes and maybe hormones change as well, it could be kind of like every day could be a living experiment, right? I've had people come to me and say, last week my skin was like this and this week my skin is like this. What do I do? And I would say, well, let's just roll with it. Let's just have these products and just kind of roll with it and see how you're feeling that day. And if you're having a really dry day, step it up, you know, and if you're having like breakouts that day, step that up. That's okay.

[Reshma Sajani]

What's your favorite product in your line.

[Sunday Riley]

Or your favorite three good jeans because it keeps the lights on. And that's, that's our global bestseller. So I like, I like anything that overperforms for us. CEO serum is our vitamin C serum that I bathe in that of any product, that's the one that I use the most. I mean, I go through bottles and bottles and bottles of it. But I'm also kind of crazy with application. Yeah. Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

I'm not saying you're crazy, but, yes, I understand why you don't mind it.

[Sunday Riley]

I totally. I embrace, like, you know what it's like. It's one of those things where I've always been a little bit obsessive by nature, and I've always had, you know, hyper focus, and I used to kind of hide it from people and be like, I don't want you to know that I'm kind of crazy in this way. Now I just totally embrace it.

[Reshma Sajani]

I'm like.

[Sunday Riley]

I just. I'm like, there's a fabulousness that comes from accepting your eccentricities, which is also a benefit of aging.

[Reshma Sajani]

It's true. I mean, like, for me, it's like, I'm intense. Like, there's just, like, that's it. Like, I'm intense. And I used to be. Am I intense? I'm like, no, I'm intense. So now I just go with that. Like, if you're gonna come work for me. Just telling you one thing, like, I am super intense. What do you feel like? What's. What's left that you really want to accomplish? Like, if you were. I always, like, if you were the end of your. End of your line. You know what I mean? And you want to feel like, I lived. I lived life the way that I was supposed to live it. What do you want to. What's. What's still yet for you to achieve?

[Sunday Riley]

Everything. Everything. I. You know, someone said to me the other day, I was doing this thing, and they said, you know, when did you first realize that you had made it? And I was like, I have no idea what that feels like. So my answer must be never. Like, I've never had that sense of like. So to me, I have everything to achieve. So let's say. Let's say I was 135, and this was that moment where I'm like, this is my end of time here on this one. One thing I'd actually like to work on is being better in having. Cultivating more relationships. Because growing a business takes a lot of time, and then growing kids takes time, and then side pursuits take time. And the side pursuits that I choose, like writing, are very solitary. So I've definitely. I know how to put in my time in front of a computer screen for my own solitary work, and I know how to be present for kids. But for me, sometimes the thing that I feel is missing and that I really crave is human connection and, you know, a vast circle of friends and a vast whatever. And I Just haven't put as much time into it because there's all these other things. Like I said, I have 3,500 unread text messages. And, you know, but there's. To me, you know, if it was, like, If I was 135 and this is my last day, I would hope that a lot of people knew me and that I knew a lot of people. To me, that's the most important thing. Like, not just being seen, but do people know you and do you know them?

[Reshma Sajani]

So true. I think it's.

[Sunday Riley]

So.

[Reshma Sajani]

It's hard to make friends at this stage of life, but I've been talking to a lot of people about how you do it, and I think it's very possible. I think you have to make the effort and the time, and you have to also be willing to be vulnerable.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

And that's hard.

[Sunday Riley]

Well, I try to practice intentional friendship, and I learned this from an interview that I saw with Jane Fonda. So, yeah, so she said that she practices this intentional friendship where she tells people, like, I want to be your friend. She's like, I just don't. I don't beat around the bush anymore. I don't hope that they text me. Or she's like, I just, like, I want to be your friend. And I try to call them or I try to text them and see what can happen. So I've started practicing that, and I'll tell you, it's got a 50, 50 success rate, which is what she said, too. Cause a lot of people are like, yeah, yeah. And then you send them a note, and then they're kind of like, oh. And I'm like, because it's intense, right? But it's like. But there's also something really beautiful. It's saying, like, I think you're really cool. I would love to at least have you as an acquaintance, like, ongoing. And if we become great friends, that's really cool, too. But I'm going to put in some effort. What do you think? You know, it's like. It's like being at school again on the first day. Like, do you want to be my friend? And, you know, 50, 50, you know, but it's. It's. It helps.

[Reshma Sajani]

And the logistics, I mean, so I was just in Chicago. I always drop off my kids to stay with their grandparents for a week. And of course, my little one's sick. We don't get to Chicago till, like, 4. And I had made dinner plans with my girlfriends from college that I hadn't seen in a long time. Right. As part of this whole, like, make, you know what I mean? You know, relight the fire on some things. And of course, you know, I land and I'm tired. I have every excuse to be like, you guys. I'm out. Like, I've had a rough couple of days. I just got in. And then one by one, this is what happens, right? Someone sick, somebody cancel, somebody this. And it's like, me and one friend left, and I'm again having to get into the city. I'm staying in the suburbs, so it's like an hour and a half. Uber. Uber. But I say I'm basically like, let's just do it. And she was like, yeah, let's do it. You know? And while I'm in the Uber, I'm like, I'd rather be in bed right now, but. And then we have dinner, and we have the best time.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

And it was so much fun. And I think that that's what kind of gets in the way, is, like, we are at this stage in our life exhausted with the kids and the work and this and then that. But then when you actually then go invest in that friendship or in that relationship or in that dinner, you're so grateful and happy that you did it.

[Sunday Riley]

You never regret investing in people, assuming that it turns out. Okay, let me really take that back. I have had a lot of regrets. But just in general, though, making an effort to make friends is wonderful. Boundaries are good, too. But making an effort to make friends is great.

[Reshma Sajani]

And.

[Sunday Riley]

And I think kind of like what you're saying. Like, I've had to kind of learn to say, actually, I need to prioritize that in my life. I really. I really want to know people. I really want to have memories. Like, someone just invited me to something today, and I was like, I'm just super flattered that I was invited. Like, I don't know if I'll be able to go. It's not, you know, anywhere near me, but I was like, it's the kind of, like, the joy of someone saying. And it probably meant nothing to them, but it's the joy of someone saying, like, yeah, do you want to. Do you want to kind of join me? And I was like, yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah.

[Sunday Riley]

I mean, even if I can't, like, yes.

[Reshma Sajani]

Yeah, it's great. Okay, to close. What's one piece of advice that you would have for someone who wants to start a business? What's. Yeah, one piece of wisdom.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah. Don't. Don't overthink it is what I'd say. Number one, don't overthink it because you'll. At least. If you're anything like me, you know, I can be. We talk about being obsessive, intense. I can. I can overanalyze things. And so I have to kind of at some point just say, like, I'm just doing it. I'm just jumping off the cliff. Like, I'm just doing it. And if there's no safety net, then I'll figure it out on the next level down. Right. But, like, you know, I think a lot of times in life, people don't start because there's a lot of what ifs. Yeah, but what if this happens? And what if this happens? And you know what? They're right. A significant amount of those are going to happen or something they couldn't conceive. But there's no chance of winning unless you jump off. So the minute I started into the what if cycle, I'm like, stop it. Like, what if is the worst thing for me. So I just kind of just do it. And the second thing I'd recommend is also any contract you sign. Anything. What? You know, just if you can get an attorney. I don't know how much money people might have for an attorney. It could be even, like, advice from. I mean, chat. GPT. I don't know if, you know, it's like, AI.

[Reshma Sajani]

Attorneys are the bomb. Yeah, right.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah. But just, you know, just say, like, what could happen with this? What could happen with that? Because it is kind of good to make sure that what you're signing that you. You understand the implications. Because a lot of contracts that you sign, you sign it thinking it's going to be great. You can sign them with friends or with family members or with business partners, whatever. And then sometimes it isn't always so great and you have to make sure, like, that you are covered in that regard. That's the only thing I'd say is just. Just make sure your contracts are reviewed and that also that you advocate for yourself and those. Sometimes when you start, you're just. You don't feel so confident to advocate for yourself. You're so desperate for a shot. At least that's how I felt. I was like, look, I'm just so desperate for a chance. Like, I'll take nothing. I'll take nothing. Just get me something. And I do wish that I had because I had to really fight for myself, you know, later on I just would say, like, you know, fight for yourself in the beginning. Not to the point where you, you know, talk yourself out of the room. But fight for yourself because there's no one else that's going to do it. That's right.

[Reshma Sajani]

Like assume you're having a million dollar idea.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah.

[Reshma Sajani]

Well thank you so much. This was wonderful conversation.

[Sunday Riley]

Yeah, I had such a great time.

[Reshma Sajani]

Thank you so much to Sunday Riley for talking with me today. One last thing, thank you for listening to my so called Bid Life. If you haven't subscribed to the Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like even more from my conversation with Gretchen Rubin. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonade premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out. I'm your host Reshma Sajani. Our associate producer is Isara Acevez and our senior producer is Chrissy Pease. This series is sound designed by Ivan Kurayev. Ivan also composed our theme music and performed it with Ryan Jewell and Karen Waltock. Our VP of new content is Rachel Neal. Special thanks to our development team, Oja Lopez, Jamila Zara Williams and Alex McGowan. Executive producers include me, Reshma Sajani, Stephanie Whittles Wax and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Series consulting and production support from Katie Cordova. Help others find our show by leaving a rating and writing a review. And let us know how you're doing in Midlife. You can submit your story to be included in this [e-mail] midlife follow my so called Midlife wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye.

[Sunday Riley]

Hi, I'm Erica Mahoney. You don't know me, but you know a version of my story. Because by now we've all felt the impact of senseless gun violence. I think a stray bullet flew past.

[Reshma Sajani]

Me because I hear the it was.

[Sunday Riley]

That horrible feeling of dread. Something's wrong. Four years ago my dad was killed in a mass shooting. My podcast Senseless is about moving forward after the unthinkable Senseless from Lemonada Media, premiering June 17.