Michelle de Swarte, Sonic The Hedgehog & Vote Vogue!

Summary

My Therapist Ghosted Me – Episode Summary

Episode: Michelle de Swarte, Sonic The Hedgehog & Vote Vogue!
Date: November 28, 2025
Host: (Stand-in) Joanne McNally with guest Michelle de Swarte

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Overview

In this vibrant, laughter-filled episode, Joanne McNally welcomes her close friend and comedian Michelle de Swarte as a stand-in for Vogue Williams, who is away “soaking up parrots in the jungle.” The duo deep-dive into the realities of comedy friendships, the perils and oddities of live gigs, honest advice, TV culture, self-care trends, and unique celebrity stories—all with trademark irreverence and raw honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Friendship Dynamics in Comedy (00:15–04:41)

• Navigating Work vs. Real-Life Friendship:
  Joanne and Michelle share stories about keeping work and personal space, from blanking each other on trains to setting boundaries at gigs.
  • Michelle: “I can't bear the idea of us having to chat for this whole journey. And normally the person's like, thank for that.” (02:27)
• Car Sharing & Social Battery Management:
  Joanne outlines her “no-chat at breakfast” rule with her tour manager, highlighting comedians’ need for downtime (03:05).
• Awkward Small Talk:
  Michelle recalls a morning at a comedy festival, outright telling a TV commissioner she’d rather skip sharing a lift for the sake of reducing awkwardness (03:35).

2. People-Pleasing & Brutal Honesty (04:16–06:01)

• On Being Direct:
  Michelle admits to a “wild ability” to say whatever she's thinking—sometimes bluntly but usually without offense (04:16).
  • Joanne: “You're less of a people pleaser than I am.”
  • Michelle: “I'm not great in those situations... I have an inability not to say what’s going on in real time.” (04:48)

3. TV Gigs & I’m A Celebrity (06:01–10:14)

• Michelle’s ‘I’m A Celeb’ Backstory:
  Michelle reminisces about substituting for Jack Osborne on I’m a Celebrity spin-off, due to his swine flu. She ironizes the “full circle” as she’s now a fill-in for Vogue (06:01–06:55).
• Behind-the-Scenes Jungle Details:
  Graphic descriptions of awful smells and challenges, and how desperation (or a pending mortgage) might influence willingness to go on reality TV (07:56).
• Vogue’s ‘Jungle’ Performance:
  Both hosts rave about Vogue’s resilience in the jungle, her team spirit, and discuss the highlight of “Vogue squatting” in camp and daughter Gigi’s adorable home imitation (10:06–10:20).
  • Joanne: “Their ambition and drive makes me want to like, take a nap between the two of them.” (09:10)

4. National Voting Frustration & VPN Tips (10:29–11:25)

• Ireland Can’t Vote:
  Frustration that Irish fans can’t vote on I’m A Celeb, with humorous suggestions about bus trips to Belfast and VPN hacks (10:48–11:23).
  • Joanne: "I'm trying to arrange a bus to get the whole country to go to Belfast for the day..." (10:48)
  • Guest: “I'm just saying for no reason whatsoever. VPN. Ireland.” (11:17)

5. Celebrity Name Trademark Drama (12:13–13:36)

• ‘Kylie vs. Kylie’ Legal Fights:
  Lively banter on the Kylie Minogue vs. Kylie Jenner trademark dispute, poking fun at influencer vs. pop icon culture (12:44–13:36).
  • Michelle: “No girl, but one lip gloss you think that’s gonna... overtake ‘I’m spinning around’?” (12:57)

6. The Absurdity of Kids’ Skincare (13:49–17:35)

• Kids Face Masks Discussion:
  Both recoil at skincare products marketed to children as young as five, arguing it’s just the latest manifestation of a shallow self-care culture (13:49–14:45).
  • Joanne: “It's basically like giving... fake ozempic pens at some stage so they can shoot up like mommy.” (14:28)
  • Michelle: “If you’re like, I must keep my skin... like, baby, I know. This is like your skin’s never going to look like this again.” (15:13–15:14)
• Confessions on Self-Care Gone Wild:
  They admit to skincare binges as self-soothing, musing on generational differences (15:56–16:18).

7. Female Standups, TV Jobs, and Acting vs. Comedy (18:08–19:37)

• Behind the Scenes:
  Joanne shares a behind-the-scenes story of Big Fat Quiz, including Judy Love’s “fingers smell like kebab” prank (18:11–18:58).
• The Boredom of Filming:
  Both agree that acting days are long and dull compared to the instant gratification and energy of stand-up (19:00–19:16).

8. Avoiding Life’s Annoying Admin (20:09–29:15)

• Procrastination Games:
  Anecdotes on dodging admin, making fake phone calls, and the “Irish goodbye” (leaving without saying goodbye to anyone) (20:09–21:29).
• Lost Phones, Never Used Insurance:
  Michelle relives the time her phone was snatched while giving Joanne a lecture on “being from the ends,” only for the phone to turn up months later in Dubai (27:39–28:46).
• Unnecessary Subscriptions:
  Both confess to losing money to direct debits they never cancel; Michelle’s friend tries to organize a “digital clean out” for her (26:59–27:39).

9. Small Gestures & Social Observations (29:22–31:09)

• Uber Etiquette:
  Joanne wonders if Uber drivers only help attractive women with bags, referencing Tiktok “social experiment” reveals (29:22–31:09).

10. Milestones & Irish Comedy (31:21–32:01)

• Joanne’s 3Arena Show:
  Joanne discusses becoming the first Irish woman to headline Dublin’s 3Arena, feeling both self-conscious and proud (31:28–31:52).

11. Fake News and Viral Interviews (32:14–33:28)

• Kate Beckinsale’s Viral Storytelling:
  Both marvel at Kate Beckinsale’s fake-but-hilarious viral chat show appearance, musing about outrageous promo strategies (32:14–33:28).

12. Wild Travel Stories & Adult Venues (33:35–35:16)

• Sex Shows in Bangkok/Strip Clubs in Thailand:
  The two get honest about strange travel memories—from ping-pong shows in Bangkok to Michelle’s near-addiction to visiting trans women strip clubs in Thailand (33:35–35:16).

13. On Male Friendships: Just Ask (26:57–27:39)

• Simple Solution:
  Michelle realizes men just need direct asks to show up as good friends: “You gotta give him clear instructions because sometimes you’ll be in the mindset...if you called him now at 1am and said... he would do it.” (26:57)

14. Comedy Tour Life & Selling Out Shows (36:25–38:41)

• Women-only Audiences:
  Michelle jokes that Joanne’s live shows attract “so many white women in London,” and both promote their upcoming gigs with classic tongue-in-cheek banter (37:02–38:10).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Comedian Boundaries:
  “This is good. You see, when we get on this train, we have to sit separate.” – Michelle (02:15)
• On Being Unapologetically Honest:
  “I have an inability not to say what’s going on in my mind in real time.” – Michelle (04:29)
• On ‘I’m a Celeb’ and Money:
  “I’m about to move into a place and get a mortgage. So at this point, I’m not confident saying I wouldn’t do anything.” – Michelle (08:01)
• On Children’s Beauty Products:
  “Why are you doing anything to [your skin as a kid]? You’ve got the skin that we’re all trying to get.” – Joanne (15:19)
• On Emotional Support:
  “Nothing says self care more than washing your fella.” – Michelle (17:49)
• On Avoiding Goodbyes:
  “The amount of time you’ll save is, like, four years off your life by not saying goodbye at house parties.” – Joanne (21:49)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:15–04:41: Comedy friendships, boundaries, awkward encounters
• 04:41–06:01: People-pleasing vs. being bluntly honest
• 06:01–10:14: Michelle’s TV adventures & insights on I’m a Celeb
• 11:00–11:25: Irish voting drama & VPN hacks
• 13:49–17:35: Kids' skincare, self-care culture, and generational differences
• 18:08–19:16: TV vs. standup: boredom and thrills
• 27:39–28:46: Stolen phone saga
• 29:22–31:09: Uber drivers, attraction, and social dynamics
• 31:28–32:01: Joanne’s 3Arena milestone
• 33:35–35:16: Sex shows and wild travel stories
• 36:25–38:41: Comedy touring and audience banter

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a quintessential My Therapist Ghosted Me experience: sharp honesty, relentless wit, deep friendship, and social commentary—punctuated by laugh-out-loud stories and loving mockery. Joanne and Michelle oscillate effortlessly between real-life advice, cultural critique, and existential comedy-life problems, making this instalment a joy for both newcomers and loyal fans.

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Follow Michelle de Swarte: [Instagram/TikTok @MichelleDeSwarte]
Catch Joanne McNally and Michelle on tour in 2026!

Transcript

[A]

This is a Global Player original podcast.

[B]

Welcome to My therapist ghosted me with me, Joanne McNally and our stand in special guest because Vogue's off soaking off parrots in the jungle. Michelle Deswartz.

[A]

Hello. Hello.

[B]

Now this is. We've never worked together before. Michelle's one of my best friends.

[A]

No, we haven't.

[B]

Michelle's one of my best friends and she's an amazing stand up.

[A]

Yeah, but you know what, it's weird. How weird was it, yeah. When we had to do a gig together and we were like, wait, what? Obviously we met in stand up, but.

[B]

Like it's weird bringing friends when you're, when your friends outside of work and then suddenly you're in a work environment, you're like, oh, hello.

[A]

Do you remember when.

[B]

How are you?

[A]

We were going to both do a gig in Manchester and I'd seen you on the train and I blanked you cuz I thought, I can't, I hate sitting on trains with anybody. Like I just don't like the full situation of it. And even though me and Joanne live moments away from each other's houses, have slept in the same bed many a time. I saw you on the train, I was like, no way. Anyway, then the train breaks. Yeah, so. So that's what happened. Right. So then the train breaks down like a couple of stops from Manchester and then I text Joanne from the train. I was like, hey, listen man, I'm gonna see trainers. I saw you on the train, but I thought. And you texted back, you went, thank God. This is why we're friends. Yeah. I was like, we're on the same train. I didn't want to say hello because it's brutal. But now the train's broken down, we might have to get an Uber. We should probably do that together.

[B]

Yeah, I know, we're like, we're in work mode now, Michelle. How does this work?

[A]

Do you know what I mean? And then we got to the gig and pretty much blanked each other. Like we were just talking to other people.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But then I remember coming back on the train, I saw you and I went, hey. And you went, no, not until we're in Clapham.

[B]

But that's. We have our own friendship outside of work.

[A]

Do you know what I mean?

[B]

And then it puts a different dynamic on it. But I will say you're like, I know I could be a bit of a hermit at times, but I'm very good now. I'd be like, I would sit, I'd be in your orbit. But not chatting. Like I'm comfortable enough with you now that I'd be like, sitting. I'd sit on the same carriage as you, but not beside you.

[A]

No, thanks.

[B]

That's love. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's a real friendship. Yeah, it is. I do this now. Like, I'll be, you know, if I leave a gig and I'm with someone, I just told him straight, I'm like, this is good. You see, when we get on this train, we have to sit separate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can't bear the idea of us having to chat for this whole journey. And normally the person's like, thank for that.

[B]

I know. I'm like, yeah, I know.

[A]

I've released you.

[B]

Like, I remember when I started gig and, and it still happens, but it's more. It's a different vibe now. And you'd car share to gigs. No, which I know we're. We're kind of over that now. Well, I still car share with Garage and whatever, the tour manager, but that's different. It is different. It's different. It is different. Yeah. But me and Garage have a rule on the road. Garage and rule on the road that we don't speak at breakfast. So we're like, we just pass each other like two ships in the night at the buffet. Don't even look at me. Don't even look.

[A]

I have done.

[B]

Yeah, you do.

[A]

It's important.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Even. Even like lifts and stuff. Like, I mean, Joe, I don't know how you felt, but when you came to get me at reception that moment while we waited for the lift, I was like, I can't talk. I can't talk because this is excruciating. This is so awkward.

[C]

I complimented Michelle on her body of work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, well, you would. Yeah, it's an interesting.

[A]

And then we were like, yes, this is brutal.

[C]

Is that me?

[A]

Were you doing me? No, of course not.

[C]

Like you were doing me.

[B]

It sounded very like him, so I'm guessing it was him.

[A]

I was, I. I was. I was doing some like, one of those comedy festival things. And it was in the morning and we're at the hotel and I'd had breakfast and then this commissioner, who I love was stood at the elevator or the lift. Sorry. And he goes. He was like, after you. And I was like, you know what, John, I'm sorry, mate, I can't get in this lift with you. It's just too awkward. And he was like, oh, okay, you go first. And I was like, thanks. I was just like, this is too brutal. And then he sent me an email after he was like, solid work. I really respect that. I was like, yeah, thanks. Because you know what I don't want to do after a night of being on the piss and pretending you're networking is then in the morning, in the cold light of day, be in a lift with you for up to 50 seconds. No way.

[B]

No.

[A]

No, thanks.

[B]

You have, you have a very good ability to, like, say. Say what you really think without offending anyone.

[A]

It's, it's.

[B]

It's a wild ability.

[A]

I don't think. It's not. I wouldn't say without offending anyone, but I feel like it is like I have an inability not to say sort of what's going on. Yeah. In my mind, in real time.

[B]

You're less of a people pleaser than I am. I think I'm more of a people pleaser than you. I think you're just like, yeah, it is what it is.

[A]

I have a low.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not great. I'm not great in them situations. I'm not great. Do you know what? Last night, right, I went to this. It was like. It was like a work mixer thing for, like, writers and creatives and whatever. And so I got this email from this, like, lovely woman called Madeline, I think her name is. And she'd arranged. Last year, she did like, black women that write scripts and stuff. So, like showrunners and all of that. And it was like this big get together at BBC. I think I came to your house after, actually. So it was there. And so when she sent me the message, I thought, oh, it's the year of that. Like, that's coming up again. So I said, yeah, I'd love to come. And she was like, intimate dinner at Mildred's. And I was like, oh, amazing. I walked in the room and I was like, she's like loads of white men. I was like, what's going on? And she was like, oh, Michelle's so nice to have you. I went, this ain't what I thought it was. I thought this was black women in scripted tv. And she was like, yeah, no, well, there are some black people. I look, yeah, Nah, like, obviously I'm happy to be here. But she went, yeah, you wouldn't. I said, yeah, this is not. This is not what I thought it was. And then every person I spoke to through dinner was like, hey, why are you here? I was like, well, because I thought it was something completely different, but I'm happy to be here. But. Yeah, I just can't say it. It's so bad.

[B]

Yeah. Especially When, I mean, that's a, that's a pretty big disappointment.

[A]

That's a proper. It ended up, it ended up being a lovely evening. Can I tell you about my full circle moment, please. With I'm a celeb. So when I was a humble TV presenter before I started Stand Up, I did some random show, right. And, and then so I got a phone call saying Jack Osborne was meant to be on the panel for I'm a Celebrity. Get Me out of Here now. After. After whatever the it was. Right. Yeah. And. But he's got swine flu.

[B]

Do you remember when that was a thing?

[A]

And we're looking for a last minute replacement because I was mod at the time, I could get visas really quickly so they shipped me in to be his replacement on the panel to talk after. And, and I just think in a weird circle, obviously I'm reaching here. But yeah, he's in the jungle with Jack Osborne and I'm feeling. That is.

[B]

I'm another weird.

[A]

I'm another filler.

[B]

That is weird. Yeah.

[A]

But let me tell you something, right? So even when I went there, even though it was years ago, you know what, and they spoke about it last night when they did their challenge. So if you didn't see it, the challenge was that the four contestants had to be in a giant cot while they had to tell the rest of the camp clues about a bedtime story they'd got. So let's say it's Rapunzel. But they couldn't say Rapunzel. They couldn't say hair. They couldn't say. Do you know what I mean? Like oral charades. Exactly. Right. So they're doing that while bugs are being dumped on them. And they mentioned it last night. Is that like the smell? So when I went into the jungle, they get to show you, they show you like where they keep the critters and this and that and like, you know, the jungle, like the kind of compound, I guess is what you call it. But when I say the stench of where they keep. It stinks. It stinks. And you know me. Spectrum, Spectrum. That there's no way.

[B]

I mean, would you not. You'd never do us. Would you ever.

[A]

Listen, I'm about to move into a place and get a mortgage. So at this point.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm not confidently saying I wouldn't do anything.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

You see what I'm saying? The self employed fear is real.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So right now, no, no one's asking, but right Now. No. Yeah. Don't you love to be when no one's asked you and you're like, I wouldn't do it. They're like, no one's asking you, babes, but it stinks. And plus they're chuck and they're. Oh, it was the amount of they chucked on her and she was still talk. I would have.

[B]

I'm very proud of her.

[A]

She's doing very well for the camp. 11 Sweets, candy for the rest of the candy. And also, you know what I was thinking as well, right? Because Spencer. Spencer's running around.

[B]

I know, yeah.

[A]

Never has a more literal meaning for that word. Be more calming, I guess, for any person who's like, got their lover running around. Literally running around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's in the jungle and you're just like, what? You know, like as you're a kid, you get older, what are you gonna do?

[B]

I know.

[A]

What are you going to do? Oh. When my parents were this age, one a marathon in each country over seven days and my mum was. Do you know what I mean? Just getting crap jumped on her.

[B]

Their ambition and drive makes me want to like, take a nap between the two of them. Like, look, don't get me wrong, I'm ambitious, you're ambitious. We have drive.

[A]

No, not like that. No, not like that.

[B]

No, we're not like that. No, we're not.

[A]

No.

[B]

No. But she is, like, I think she's so suited to this TV show. She sounds. She's a team player. Yeah. She's competitive. She has the right mix for it. But like. Because obviously I've been watching her in there, I forgot how full on it. Like. Like the. They're making them eat. No, Like, I actually forgot how intense it is. Like, you're not just going in, fannying around in a campsite. You're properly.

[A]

I'll tell you what, though, Gagging.

[C]

That. That went through me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you don't think that is gonna turn up on some questionable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Websites. Kelly Brooke Gaggin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Vogue Squat. Did you see there was a really cute video. Vogue, because. Vogue. Squatting in the jungle. She's. Because she's built an ass for herself and she's trying to keep it. And they asked someone else.

[A]

I thought you meant like squatting, taking a shit or something. I was like, well, there's cameras everywhere.

[B]

They got a vote. They asked Gigi, they were like her daughter. They're like, what do you think she'll be doing in the jungle? And Gigi started squatting. She's like, no, she's, like, mimicking. I know. She's so cute.

[A]

I mean, look, I'll say this, they got a good group in there. Eddie Cad is in there. For a comedian. He is. Have you worked with Eddie?

[B]

No.

[A]

He's a dream. He is an absolute dream. Ruby Wax is in there.

[B]

She's killing it, isn't she?

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, love her. Yeah. In my mind, I feel like it'll be Vogan. Ruby.

[B]

Do you reckon? Yeah. I gotta be fantastic. I hope so. Yeah. My only concern is Ireland can't vote, so I'm trying to arrange a bus to get the whole country to go to Belfast for the day so we can all dial in. Ireland can't vote. Very racist.

[C]

People are talking about VPNs.

[B]

Are they? That's a great idea. Yeah.

[C]

I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.

[A]

How do you vote? Do you phone in? No one phones in anymore.

[B]

So you can vote on the app and you can vote online as well. I, I.

[C]

And I'm just saying vpn.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[C]

I'm not saying that attached to anything. I don't know if it's naughty or not. I'm just saying, for no reason whatsoever. Vpn.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Ireland.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Or take a day trip up to Belfast. Girls. Dayers. Yeah. Great city. Keep.

[A]

Keep in mind Vogue. She's in there getting chucked on her.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Just vote.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Make it happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joe, is that you?

[B]

Tree? Takes calls in here and all. Give a flying. Sometimes he just disappears off the zoom. We're like, hello. Because me and Vogue have this ongoing situation where when he's not watching us, we kind of. We tone it down. It's like we're basically performing for Joe. Yeah. We're like, daddy, look, look, look, Daddy. Do you know what I was thinking this morning? And even though, like, I don't know if your surname is Swarth or Swart, it's De Swart. De Swart.

[A]

But you know what I say?

[B]

De Swarth.

[A]

You're still in my phone as Joanna.

[B]

Am I?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's cute.

[A]

Even though you was like, stop calling me that. I was like, sure, yeah.

[B]

And you kept. You know what?

[A]

It's so funny.

[B]

It gets to a point where, like, I don't even. It doesn't matter why I pronounce your name. It doesn't matter at this point.

[A]

Why would you say my last name, Michelle Dsworth?

[B]

Because you're. Do you think that you're a Madonna? We could just say Michelle.

[A]

No, but, but I imagine that like.

[B]

Oh, for me.

[A]

Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant.

[B]

The listeners.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Michelle.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michelle Obama. Take a bloody seat, babes. Because I'm going by the, by the uncommon name of Michelle.

[B]

It's like when Kylie tried to take Kylie. She tried to trademark her own name off Kylie Minogue.

[A]

Kylie's like, no, but also I love that Kylie just came back and was like, excuse me. No girl, but one lip gloss. You think that's gonna.

[B]

I know.

[A]

You think that is gonna overtake. I'm spinning, I'm spinning around.

[B]

I know. Well, she has her wine, but she. I think. I think they had to go to court over it.

[A]

Yeah, they did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because Kylie. Lip lady. Yeah. Jenner.

[B]

Kylie Jenner.

[A]

Kylie Jenner was like, who?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And all of us millennials.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gen X's were like, who are you? How dare you?

[B]

But I think Kylie Jenner would be more like bigger than Kylie Minogue at this point. Just for. If you're. Was that a terrible thing to say? Not for us, but for the young. Like there's a difference in numbers of like tick tock numbers and stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, they're cheeky, you know, they're like Kris Jenner trademarked momager.

[A]

Do you know what? Which brings me to. Yeah. So you know the new skincare. The new skincare for the kids.

[B]

Yeah. So I, Me and Michelle, I. We were sending. We were, we. We swap. We're great. Me, we swap a lot of memes. But I sent you the photo of. There's a skincare business that have made face masks for babies for five year olds.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Starting range. So you can, so you can. So you can also detox and, and recuperate with mummy. Are you all right? Is everyone all right? But anyway, so when that first came out, you know, Chris Jenner was kicking herself.

[B]

Do you reckon?

[A]

Oh, she's looking at all of her grandkids and she's like, you lot are sleeping on the job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're not making me any money. You just know that. She was like, how did I not think of this?

[B]

I actually went, read about it. It's basically like giving a. They're going to be giving them little fake ozempic pans at some stage so they can shoot up like mommy does. There's actual products in the face. They're not just wet. There's products in the face masks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It makes no sense.

[A]

Well, all right. This is what I think's worrying about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like it's one thing, you know, we kind of all realized when that whole Toddlers and Tiara franchise was out. That's like, we probably shouldn't be putting kids in makeup. Do you know what I mean? Like, they're not, they're too young. They're too young. But like, you know, you're a kid and you try and get a bit of nail varnish, whatever. But this isn't about that. This is about self care. Yeah. And retaining your youth. Which at five years old. Yeah. If you're like, I must keep my skin like, like, baby, I know.

[B]

Literally, I know.

[A]

This is like your skin's never going to look like this again.

[B]

I know. You've got the skin that we're all trying to get. Why are you doing anything to us?

[A]

Yeah, but, yeah, but also just to be seeing yourself, think of yourself as aging at that age because, you know, like all the tweens are already going space and K and they're getting drunk elephant and all of these brands that I'm like, I was gassed when they put caught a moisturizer in the bar of Dove. Yeah. I was like, oh, me self care. But like, are we all right?

[B]

I know, but also what's happening is it's ruining there. So there's all the I love, I love look, I love. I follow loads of dermatologists. I'm a board certified dermatologist. You know these ones that you. I'm sure you're obviously betting as well. We love, me and Michelle, we love same obviously. Me and Vogue too. But we fucking love being.

[A]

I live for it.

[C]

Ah.

[B]

It's a hobby, I'm telling you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I panic by skincare routines and like just stuff and like, ah, get a bit of filler. I'm feeling a bit down. Like someone would buy shoes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Like I'm like, ah, yeah. I feel sad. Yeah. Maybe I could fill the void with filler.

[B]

I know, yeah. That's our generation's problem. When we were younger, we buy hoop earrings now we get tit lifts because we can and we're being sold as shit all the time. But the photo they used of the girl, the little girl, what age was she? Like seven?

[A]

Barely. She looked, she looked rough as fuck. She did need that. She didn't need that face mask. To be fair.

[B]

This girl's been on the piss.

[A]

Someone's been up all night.

[B]

She, her eyes, she looked, she looked frightened at first glance.

[A]

Yeah. When you see that picture. Because what she's got is like a collagen mask on her face. Yeah, but because you're not used to seeing a child that age do like, what is self care? You look at it and you're like, is this kid got cling film on her face? Like, what's going on? I know, I just, I just, I'm just like, it's like the self care and the recuperation of it and you just kind of go, as a kid, when did self care become staying in and relaxing from your hard days graph, do you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like self care is increasingly becoming, being stagnant and not doing. I was chatting to Ashley's story the other day and she was like, she goes, oh. She was like, I've been in for a couple of days. And I was like. And she's like, I need to wash. And I was like, do you know what? I do the same where I think a me day is not washing my funny. You know what I mean? Just staying in and like.

[B]

Yeah, rotting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we're also in our 40s now.

[A]

What's your minch? Yeah, I mean that is important.

[B]

That is, that is important. And I've always been saying so sometimes.

[A]

I've always been saying, I've always been washing.

[B]

I'm always bringing you, reminding you.

[A]

Nothing says self care more then washing your fella.

[B]

The 8am call to Michelle. You're watching your Instagram, Michelle. Come on, you know it's good for morale.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, no, I'm having a me day, babe. Nothing. Nothing says me than lying in bed, shoving a finger down my pants and having a sniff. I'm like, that's marinated. Lovely. Oh God.

[B]

I did, I did big fat quiz last night. I was with you.

[A]

How was it?

[B]

It was actually, it was actually really good crack. But I was on a team with Judy Love and as the camera came up, she was making me sniff her fingers because she said that she. She was like, they smell a kebab. So the other shot is me literally leaning in smiling. Your fingers.

[A]

Can we talk Judy love?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She gives bloody value. Oh, she's. I just found a TV show with her over summer and she was so funny because I think it was her first acting job and so she was just looking at me. We were like the stand up comics on the show and it's called School that'd be out on Channel 4 in the spring. But is this your.

[B]

Were you filming? Were you in it with her?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was just hanging around too Hot Judy. No, but, but, but she just kept on looking at me like, are we doing this again? I was like, yeah, babes from every angle. And she was like, yeah. It's not like stand up, is it? But she was so fun to work with.

[B]

Yeah. No, she's gray crack.

[A]

I love her.

[B]

I find, like, I haven't, I haven't done that much acting, but I do find that the days are so long. It is, it's fucking boring.

[A]

It is.

[B]

It's boring.

[A]

To go from doing a TV show to back to doing stand up. I feel like Dick Van Dyke and Mary Poppins.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm a one man band. Look at me go. Do the sound check. Testing, testing. Tata.

[B]

You've done the sitcom thing. Like, I get asked to go, like, I get asked, you know, people are like, are you going to do a sitcom? I'm like, I don't really. Like, maybe I know how hard they are, you know, how hard they are to get off the ground. And then the length of time that you've to spend writing it, I know how hard you work on spent.

[A]

It's, it's monotonous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, the truth is I think there's just like a lot of pressure to like. Oh, you know, like you feel like you meant to be writing like Kerry Bradshaw and it's like, you know, do you know what I mean? I'd say I've got an hour and a walk. Yeah, an hour and a walk. An hour. And like, let me text some people. Yeah, you know, you know, you know you procrastinating when you start calling your mates, like, you're right. I just thought I'd check in. Yeah. Being on my mind, it's like, no.

[B]

Bringing your mom and all that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You're really trying to dodge something. Sorry, Pat.

[A]

I love you. What you up to?

[B]

I'm like, what are your plans for the weekend, Mom? She's like, what is this? And like my mom's like, she's good on the phone, but she's also. She's a she. She's quick to let you go, like. And I love, I love a quick phone call. You know me. I love, I love a voice note. I'm a bit of a phone dodger, as Michelle knows. Sometimes we're like 20 voice notes in and I'll just ring Michelle and Michelle ring me, like, look, this, we need to take this live. Yeah, we need to raw dog.

[A]

But. But we definitely limber up to it. Do you know what? Do you know what my mum does she just hangs up and then pretends that something. But she always makes sure it's mid sentence. But it's like, listen, the jig is up. You've been doing this for years. Right.

[B]

So funny.

[A]

She will. She will just be like, yeah, because. And then it'll just go dead. And then I'll try and call her back and then she'll WhatsApp me and go, my phone died. Oh, really? Because you're whatsapping me. What would you think this is? A letter? You don't. You don't think I don't know that they're connected?

[B]

She's doing the Irish goodbye on the phone. That is hilarious.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[B]

Pat just goes, look, I'll let you go. And I'm like, I've literally. I haven't even. We barely said hello. And she's like, I'll let you go. I'll let you go.

[A]

I never heard the expression of the Irish goodbye until I was in America.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

And then I was like, oh, is. Should we be.

[B]

Is it appropriate? I know. No, I think Irish goodbye is still fine. Things like Chinese whisperers and stuff has gone now, hasn't it?

[A]

Probably, I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But to be clear, an Irish goodbye is just leaving and not saying anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is what Helen's doing to you on the phone, basically.

[A]

Yeah. Well, not.

[B]

Do you know how many. I remember reading this article once and it was talking about the amount of time, like there was some. I'm so that I'm about to say it out loud. It's probably one of my. It's probably completely made up. But they were saying.

[A]

But push on anyway. It's probably completely, completely, completely made up. As I was saying.

[B]

Yeah. Factually not on global news agent at this point. That the amount they were saying something like, you'll save four years off your life by not saying goodbye at house parties or something like this. Do you know the way? And I do. I hate. I do hate it.

[A]

Oh, no. I get stuck.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you're an absolute. You're gone.

[A]

Bye. Yeah, Tata.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, but Shelly.

[A]

All right.

[B]

And she's gone out the door down the road.

[A]

Well, because I know if I. Especially with you, if I get caught up in any kind of chat, I'm waking up in your bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So you won't be there.

[B]

Yeah, I know. We go hard.

[A]

It always feels like a one night stand. I wake up and I'm like, where is she? I open up My phone.

[B]

Leave a little toothbrush out for you and all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't contact me for a week.

[A]

I'm at Megan's. Pass by if you want. I'm like, oh, God, no. Where is she? I thought we had fun. We connected.

[B]

This is what I was going to say to you.

[A]

Judy loves fingers. Smell like kebab.

[B]

Well, I said, Judy, I'll be honest. There is a little. There is a little odor, but only when you're really like she. Practically her fingers up my nose.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to eat them.

[B]

So I, I love Mr. Blobby.

[A]

Oh, I saw that post now.

[B]

I know. I bet you don't like Mr. Blobby. I, I. Michelle was very against my labubu stage.

[A]

No, do not put.

[B]

You were against them.

[A]

He didn't want one. Hey, man, relax with the gaslighting because let's not put these two in the same. In the. Even in the same category. Mr. Blobby. When was Mr. Blobby out? How old was you? Joanne McNally is so long ago you can barely remember. Ten, maybe, when Mr. Blobby came onto the scene. When did Labubu come onto the scene?

[B]

A week ago.

[A]

Yeah, all right, you grown woman, walking around with your laboos. Actually, I bought loads. It was. I remember when you called me and he was like, I'm gonna get you a labu. And I was like, don't you dare. We are grown women and I will not be dragged down your little Labubu phase. It's pathetic.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But Mr. Bobby. Mr. Bobby. Mr. Blobby. Yeah, cool. He's not yourself out.

[B]

He's so funny. And I didn't know he was coming out last night.

[A]

Oh, you think it's the same person in there? It's Mr. Blobby in it. In there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's weird that every. It's weird. How do. How do the Minnie Mouses get to. How does that one Minnie Mouse get to all of the Disney World?

[B]

I did interior design masters with that blind bear with the pudsy. And it was like, wrote this, this lad in there, and it was like a billion degrees. But there was loads of kids around, so we couldn't take the thing off. You know, you can't.

[A]

You know what? Right? I used to work just around the corner from here when I was a teenager in Trocadero. And I used to work in this place called SEGA World, right in the 90s. And, and the mascot, like the computer. Yeah, the mascot was Sonic the Hedgehog. Right. And thank the Lord I was a giant as a kid because I was too big to go in this outfit. But I'd have to escort Sonic round Piccadilly Circus. Yeah. And so. And it would always be this, like, like, shortish girl in there. And so she's been in the big. And it stunk in there because people are just sweating. But, like, loads of kids would just, like, run past and, like, punch Sonic in the head. It was brutal, mate. It was so brutal. I remember one time she fell on her back like a bug. And, like, the hat, and it was just like, bunch of, like, little boys just walking past, like, Sonic, bap, bap, bap. And it would run off, land on her back. She had the Sonic shoes on. Ah, no, thank you. Last night. Oh, yeah. And I just want to say, you know, like, because I've got guy friends. I've had friends for ages. Yeah. And sometimes you forget, like, you know, guy friends can be a bit. And I've realized you have to give them clear instructions of what you want and then they will show up as your friends. Yeah. But, like, not in the way that women do. Like, we're like, oh, I get a feeling I'm checking in and blah, blah, blah. So anyway, I bought this table and a desk in Hastings. Yeah. And I was down there with my mum and I saw this table and I was like, oh, I want it, but how am I gonna get it? Like, we can't drive. My mom's like, oh, just ask Marcus. And I was like, ah, I don't want to burden him. She was like, nah, he'll do it. Ask him. So I asked my mate, he lives down there. And he was like, oh, yeah, I'll pick it up, no worries. Picked it up for me, then took it to his house. And then I was like, he goes on, michelle, I've got to drop it off now. And I was like, this. It's been in his house for months, right? And I was like, oh, thanks. And I was like, do I need to come down? He goes, no, no, me and Marco bring it up. And they just brought it up. And I was like, you know what? You gotta. You gotta give him clear instructions because sometimes you'll be in the mindset. Like, me and my mate Amy were chatting and she was like, talking about a mutual friend of ours. And she was like, yeah, I just don't think he turns up. And he can be a bit shit and this and that. And I was like, if you called him now at 1am and said, come pick up some Stuff for me. Do you think he would do it? Yeah, he definitely would do it. I said, well, there you go. Yeah, they're just. They need clear. Ask your male friends to do shit for you.

[B]

Yeah, that's fair. That's good advice.

[A]

Oh, my God, you know what else? Then he said, so he came over and he was like, okay, moving. Because I was like, how do I do my bills and stuff? I need help. And he was like, do you know what we need to do is a digital clean out. And I was like, a digital clean out? And he was like, yeah. I said, what does that even mean? And he was like, like, you've got loads of subscriptions, you've got loads of this. And then, you know, I realized, I was like, oh, mate, I need help. I'm still paying the insurance on the phone that I got stolen when we were together in the park. I'm still paying for the insurance for it. A stolen phone. Which, by the way, can I tell you, Joe, this is. I. I moved back to Clapham or back to South London. I was giving Joanne some long speech about gentrification, how I'm.

[B]

From the end, I'm a blow in, basically.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Joanne's lived there for a few years. I've been in New York for nearly 20 years. Yeah, I've come back, I'm like, yeah, the thing is, yeah, we meet at the pub. I'm like, ah, this is my gaff. Like, I'm from around here. I've worked in every pub up and down these streets, babes, you see this pub, I used to come here with my. I'm giving her all that chat and as that happens, this guy comes in and he's like selling a magazine and he's like. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, just take the money. I'm talking to Joanne, embarrassing her about her white privilege. Yeah, shaming me, talking to her about how I'm from the ends, giving her this top boy speech. And then Joanne just was, Excuse me one moment, I think he took your phone. I was like. Went running down the street, come back, she's like, where is it? I'm like, ah, it's gone. And then we just went on the piss.

[C]

But did you use the insurance policy? Did you claim for the phone?

[A]

Well, I'd only had the phone for 10 days, they hadn't kicked in yet, so I had to go buy a new phone. And then like a month later, I forgot about. Because I bought a new phone month later or two months later, the phone Turned up in Dubai in it. On a beach. Yeah. I opened up my laptop and it was like, oh, your phone's been found. And I was like, my phone is chilling on a beach in Dubai living its best life. Anyway, I'm still paying.

[B]

That is I. But I, I, when I say I cannot accept, I cannot explain how much money I've wasted on. On direct debits and all this. Like, I paid for two phone bills for two years because I could not figure out there was some. They were like, you need to get a sim. And I was like, boring. Yeah, boring.

[A]

Do you know what? I do this as well. Like, every time it gets to my vats and my accountants, like, give me all your receipts. I'm like, yeah, but I think I would pay good money to not have to do this admin, which is what I end up doing.

[B]

100.

[A]

You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm not. This isn't for me. I'm not creative. I waft around.

[B]

It's not our job.

[A]

No.

[B]

I got a Uber this morning, right? And you know the way sometimes Uber drives, I have a huge suitcase because I'm going somewhere after. And also I've like a load of luggage with me. And he didn't get out of the car to help me. And I was thinking, my head, I was like, I bet if I, I bet if he was attracted to me, he would have. Do you know what I mean? I just. You know what men are like. They did some big poll or they did some. Again, not factually checked at all. Some tick tock, you know, these videos where they kind of prank people on the street. And this woman was going around with her luggage and she was struggling, but she was like, she wasn't. They didn't have her dressed up nicely and she wasn't like, you know, she wasn't glowing as such. And like, none of the lads helped her. And then they put her in, like, a tank top with no bra. And when I say they were all running to help her. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's a thing.

[A]

Look, do you know what it is that, like, I have this sometimes when I get out of Ubers and it is like, you know what? You're doing loads of trips and I know, you know what I'm saying, you can't be asked to get out.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's freezing as well.

[B]

I'm surprised.

[A]

Like, what are you doing? You're getting out to help me. You don't know if I'm gonna tip or Not. You don't know if you're gonna get any stars. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like, whatever. I. I tip all my Uber drivers, but I begrudgingly do it when they haven't helped me with my bag.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I like to feel righteous, so. I agree. Worth the three pound tip.

[B]

I agree. I. Sometimes I'm like, how? What happened? Like, I can't. I don't. I don't care if they get out or not. It's the truth. I really don't. I don't expect it that much. I'm actually surprised so many of them do get out. But I was just thinking today, for some reason, because it's really, really heavy, and actually it would have been the one time I would have liked some help getting it in. But I never ask him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, I was like, I want. I bet now, if I was his type, he would have jumped out because he was kind of a young guy. There you go. I'm obviously too ugly to get help with my suitcase. You are.

[A]

Work on that.

[B]

I'm just ghosting videos.

[A]

It's gross. By the way, you said that you were doing a press. What did you say you're gonna do a press junket or something?

[B]

Press junket. It's a very American term. I should have said press call.

[A]

Yeah, cool. Whatevs. What for?

[B]

I'm doing. I put on a 3Arena in Dublin.

[A]

Fucking. Oh, Joe.

[B]

I know.

[A]

This is massive. You know that, innit?

[B]

So I think first.

[A]

First woman to ever do this. Right?

[B]

Well, no, so. I know. Look, I know how the press thing goes, and they're. You always need an angle.

[A]

Who's the other woman?

[B]

Amy Schumer did it.

[A]

Amy.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Listen.

[C]

First Irish.

[B]

First Irish.

[A]

Irish woman. First Irish woman.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Yeah. It's morning. Call me.

[B]

So please, if you're listening to this podcast, feel free to join me. I'm.

[A]

I.

[B]

It's so. Do you know when you're talking about yourself all day, like, I'm so stuck.

[A]

Joanne, we've been friends for a while, and I think you do it with ease. I like. I'm like, oh, you struggle with talking about you.

[B]

Do you know what I was thinking? Did you see the Kate Beckinsale interview on Jimmy Kimmel where she. So, Jake. Kate Beckinsale. It was. It's going around at the moment. She's promoting a film at the moment, and she was on Jimmy Kimmel Live and she was telling a story. So the reason I'm telling this is I'M kind of bored of my own story now because, you know, the way you're doing the entries and you're talking about the adoption, and she told a story about her child. You should watch it. It's really funny. Her daughter's boyfriend.

[A]

She's got a daughter?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, she's got a daughter with Michael Sheen.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The daughter's, like, 25. So she's telling this story how her daughter's boyfriend laid an egg. So she's telling the story like it's a completely true story. The Internet's gone mad over it, so the clips are completely viral. She is one of the best storytellers I've ever seen. And she saw. And then he laid a different egg and they cracked it open and it was. It was a boiled egg and all that. You can even Jimmy Kimmel's like, what? Where the is this interview going?

[A]

An egg?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, she's just making shit up.

[B]

But she's telling it like it's real, it's funny, it's entertaining. I was like, this is what I need. I need some fake news stories to go on Chacha's. Whitney.

[A]

Yeah. I would like to see you go on a chat show and ping a boiled egg. Fire it out of your fanny and go, you know what?

[B]

Why not? Nature's pockets. We might as well make more use of it. I remember going to a sex show in Bangkok once, and one of the girls on stage, she poured water up herself, solid, and then kind of squatted over a Coca Cola bottle. And the liquid that came back out of her vagina was like the color of Kaola. And then she handed it to an audience member and he drank it.

[A]

Well, you know what? Right? I had, I had a bit of problem. A few, maybe. When did I last go Thailand? I think I was, like, 30. And I got really obsessed with going to these strip clubs. Yeah. With the trans girls. And I was like, I, I, I was like an old. I was like an old man. Ah, that's so beautiful. Yeah. I was going to the cash point. I was, like, pulling out loads of money. I was like, oh, they love me. I don't like. Yeah. And then I remember my mate came out. I had some friends then came out and met me. And Because I was on my own at first, anyways, and then I had some friends come out and met me. And I remember me and my mate Simon just being like, yeah, should we go to the. Should we go to the strip clubs? And then one of them offered us, like, a soapy bath. He's like, should we go and have a soap? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, no, no, wait. One of them back in.

[B]

Who offered you a soapy bath?

[A]

One of the dancers was like, you can. There's another place in the back where you can have a soapy buff. And then I was like, michelle, very enticing. It's time. Time to stop. Time to leave these clubs. Stop spending your money.

[B]

I would pay good money to watch you get a soapy bath off a dancer.

[A]

Well, so would I. That was the problem. I was like, I'm gonna pay good money to do lowered into the bath.

[B]

By all these gorgeous women and just getting soaked up. That sounds really sexy.

[C]

There's a travel documentary in that.

[B]

There is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm dirty and I need to be washed clean. I'm really bad with faces, man. So, like, sometimes I'll be like, try to, like, recalibrate in the moment and hope that they don't notice and they're looking at you like you don't know. Yeah, I know who the I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just gotta call everyone babe and keep it moving. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I once did a gig and my. My babe.

[B]

Babe. Michelle, my. My dear friend. Do you mind if I blow smoke up your hole for a second? Just.

[A]

I would love you to.

[B]

Yeah, I thought you would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're one of the best stand ups I've ever seen in my life.

[A]

Keep it coming.

[B]

You are so talented.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I'm not even going to talk about your looks because they're the least interesting thing about you, but.

[A]

Go on.

[B]

But you're a knockout.

[A]

Thanks, mate.

[B]

Remember that guy we were with? That.

[A]

Is it. Is it awkward being in my company?

[B]

It is a bit. It is. It is, yeah. I don't.

[A]

I mean, me coming on your podcast, I'm like, so what else? But let me find my light. Jo, if you could get the wind machine going, that'd be amazing. Thanks.

[B]

I just. But you're in a different league. Your looks. We don't even talk about your looks. We've moved on. As a man once said to me, and it was the nicest compliment I've ever had in my life. It breaks my heart because I've never had anything as nice said to me before. He said, you're the most beautiful woman I've ever met, but it's the least interesting thing about you.

[A]

Yeah, that's what men say when they. Yeah, that's. That's some. That is hinge day 101.

[B]

No, we were in love.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[B]

I mean, if it was hinge day 101, I'd be like, that's a bit much. Now, this was an actual back when I used to actually take on men full time in relationships. Now I kind of microdose. But my point is, you're on tour at the moment.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you are a fucking joy to watch, Joanne McNally.

[A]

Thank you. Because I think it's so funny. Like, we're both on tour and we're chatting. You'll be like, oh, God, I'm trying to sell out this arena. I'm like, just did 100 seater in Southend, mate. And let me tell you something, I'll rip the roof off it. So these are my dates that I've got coming up. For the love of fucking God. Right? I know. No one can fill up a room with white women more than you.

[B]

It's true. Sometimes it does look like a rally.

[A]

It is. Oh, my God. Jo, I remember the first time I saw you at the Palladium. I was like, I didn't know there was this many white women in London, let alone in the Palladium. I was shooketh. Anyway, please, if any of you want to wander on over to me, I'd love that. I'm doing starting from next year, Oxford. Yeah. Swindon. Exeter, Southampton, Brighton, Bristol, Nottingham, Liverpool, Southend again. All right. Farnham. Where the is that?

[B]

Where's Farnham?

[A]

Do you know what I mean?

[C]

I have to go too far for that.

[A]

Ah, great. Maidenstone. There you go. Have some of that. Please come.

[B]

It's swindon. You're a Winnipeg.

[A]

Me. Do you know what? They all are, to be honest? Because, you know, but the first date sold out so quickly. And then these dates, I've done all to promote. Yes. As you know. But you've got such a good. You're so good with that. Like I always am. Like, how if I could talk into the camera at home. Yeah. The way you do.

[B]

Well, you can.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You just choose not to.

[C]

It takes an edit. Michelle. She's not doing that.

[A]

She ain't doing it off the back. That's it. That's that, that, that. That's the seventh taking it. Yeah, yeah. She's like, pass me the 12th.

[C]

The best sell that Joanne does for her tours is when vogue does it for her.

[A]

Yeah. I'm on now. Let's have a little chat. Because I am. And also, I just like to say, as someone who really loves the format, if I was listening to ghosted now and I heard my voice, I'D be like, wait, what? Do you know what I mean? Because I'm, I'm a sucker for a format. I like everything to stay the same. So I. Anyway, as a longtime listener, first time guest, I think it's so. What I love. Yeah. Is like, I remember in the early days of you doing Ghosted, the way you would be like, oh, just the adverts. Oh my God, me doing the adverts. Michelle is so cringe. And now when I listen to you on Ghosted, it cracks me up because Vogue will be chatting and without missing a beat, you'll be like, well, yeah, exactly. I like drinking water and there's nothing better to hydrate with then. And I'm like, oh, someone is deep in. You're like, vogue, what are you doing for Christmas? Because you know there's nowhere better to shop for, for parties. And I'm like, hey, it's like seeing your little girl grow up. Do you know what I mean? You go from like, feels so awkward and you're like, you know what's great for awkwardness is better help. I'm like, uh huh. Yeah.

[B]

Well, do you know what's so funny?

[A]

Isn't it Jo? Do you remember her in the early.

[B]

Days of the world?

[A]

And now she's like croaking.

[B]

But at the start I was all about like the creative journey of it all. And I am still massively. But I can tell you as I age and like you with the mortgage and all, you get more. I'm more business minded now. Even on this Penophile tour like Prosecco, I don't think I ever looked at a single statement settlement. I didn't know how much my ticket price. I knew nothing. I knew nothing. There was money coming into the account. I just. That's all I knew. Whereas this time I'm like, okay, let's. Let's be a little more business savvy this time around. Like, yeah, who's that person on the.

[A]

Side of the road? You can ride there, but also be on time.

[B]

You're on a bike. Yeah, you're getting easier to.

[A]

Me.

[B]

Thanks so much for listening. You can follow Michelle Ash.

[A]

You can follow me on Instagram or TikTok. It's my name, Michelle deswart.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

You see how shit I am at it. I know, it's pathetic, isn't it?

[B]

It's so hard.

[A]

Joanne McNally. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm a massive fan of the show. Have been since Day Dot. So to be sat with you is nothing short of underwhelming.

[B]

This has been a global player original production.