MTGM EXTRA! "Is this cheating?"

Summary

---

My Therapist Ghosted Me: MTGM EXTRA! "Is this cheating?"

Hosts: Vogue Williams, Joanne McNally, Joe Atiwell
Release Date: April 8, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, Vogue, Joanne, and guest Joe Atiwell dig into the complicated territory of "what counts as cheating" in relationships. The heart of the show is a listener email about her fiancé's drunken escapade on a stag do, prompting the trio to offer their signature brutally honest, unfiltered advice—laced with irreverent humor and candid personal anecdotes.
Main Theme: Navigating boundaries and trust in romantic relationships, especially when honesty becomes uncomfortable.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Uber Anecdotes & Creepy Cancellations ([00:10]–[01:38])

• Vogue kicks things off with a story about Uber drivers in China using scary profile pictures to scare riders into cancelling, thereby collecting cancellation fees—a clever (if devious) "business plan."
• Joanne reacts: "That, like, that's like something you would do. That's smart. I like it." ([01:06])
• Both share their comically blasé attitudes toward getting into strangers’ cars, joking that they're insulted not to be prime victims for abduction: "They don't abduct women our age, Vogue. It's... actually insulting, to be honest." ([01:31])

2. Summer Plans & Friendship Banter ([02:37]–[03:31])

• Lighthearted teasing about upcoming summer holidays, Beat the Boss, poolside lounging, and friend group logistics.
• Joanne jokes: "I'll be floating around your paddling pill. Don't worry, I'll be here." ([03:24])

3. Diving into Listener Emails: "Is This Cheating?" ([03:31]–[15:15])

• The main discussion begins after Vogue reads a listener dilemma about her fiancé's night out.
• Joanne immediately bets it’s cheating: "If you feel like it's cheating, it's cheating." ([04:05])
• Vogue and Joanne riff on female intuition and the need to trust one's gut.

a. The Listener's Story: Drunk Dancing and Confessions ([05:41]–[08:18])

• Listener reveals trust was shaken after fiancé admitted to "sexy dancing" (grinding, aroused, hand on another woman's bum) with a woman during a stag do, stopping only when she tried to kiss him. He then went home alone and later confessed to masturbating while thinking of her.
• Joanne’s incredulous:
  • "What man goes home and tells their partner that they feel guilty about sexy dancing?" ([06:48])
  • "Why is he telling her this? That's so mean." ([08:18])

b. The Honesty Paradox: Honorable or Selfish? ([08:22]–[14:27])

• Joe suggests the confession was about relieving his own guilt, not helping the partner.
  • Joe: "The reason I think he's telling the truth is because there's an element of selfishness to being that honest. It's absolving him his own guilt." ([13:25])
• Joanne sums up: "When you tell someone that you cheated on them, it's basically like asking them to take a bullet for you." – referencing Esther Perel ([13:45])

c. The Impact of Unasked-For Honesty

• Both women express anger and confusion at the fiancé’s TMI:
  • "We don't want to know that you're thinking about riding other women. I don't want to know. Why are you telling me? Now I hate you." ([12:19])
• The consensus is that the confession is damaging and selfish:
  • "It's kind of juvenile. We all do it. But, like, why tell me you're doing it?" ([12:44])

4. Is It Actually Cheating? ([15:15]–[15:57])

• Both grapple with the label, recognizing emotional pain but the act didn’t cross into physical cheating.
  • Vogue: "So do we think it's cheating or not? No, we don't think it's cheating." ([15:15])
• Joanne is less sure: "Like what man comes home and gives crumbs like that? Like why on Earth, would you do that? Why is he a priest?... It's like self harm." ([15:28])

5. Sexual Thoughts, Fantasies & Crossing the Line ([16:03]–[16:42])

• The panel joke about the absurdity of admitting every sexual fantasy, with Joanne quipping:
  • "If that was the case, we'd all be in the guillotine." ([16:03])
  • "I'm not waking up and telling my partner that doesn't exist that I rode Kevin Bacon for nine hours the night before. Like, just let it go." ([16:27])
• Side tangent about Kevin Bacon being married to his cousin, providing much-needed comic relief.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joanne: "We need to just work towards the orgasm woman's commune that we have spoken about building several times." ([04:17])
• Vogue: "This is like, inside thoughts that he has brought outside. Like you don't bring the... like, if you see someone hot on the beach... you keep that to yourself!" ([10:45])
• Joe: "There's an element of selfishness to being that honest. It’s absolving his own guilt." ([13:25])
• Joanne: "When you tell someone that you cheated on them, it's basically like asking them to take a bullet for you." ([13:45])
• Joanne: "I'd love to be the type of woman who's like, oh, I don't care that you were grinding up against some young one in a club and wanked over when you got home. But I'm not. So don't tell me about it." ([15:01])

---

Takeaways & Tone

• Host Wisdom: Both hosts agree that gut feelings, boundaries, and self-protection are key; brutal honesty is not always the right move.
• Humor: Even the heaviest sections are lightened by the hosts’ irreverent banter.
• Advice: Don’t overshare with your partner, especially confessions made to ease personal guilt. Think before you drop emotional bombs in the name of honesty.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Uber Anarchy & Vulnerability Banter: [00:10]–[01:38]
• Friendship and Summer Plans: [02:37]–[03:31]
• Listener Dilemma Introduced ("Is this cheating?"): [03:34]–[05:41]
• Main Confession (Sexy Dancing, Masturbation, Aftermath): [05:41]–[08:18]
• Panel Reactions & Debate: [08:22]–[13:45]
• Esther Perel & Bomb-Dropping Honesty: [13:45]–[14:57]
• Conclusion—Is It Cheating? Final Thoughts: [15:15]–[16:42]

---

Final Word

A sharp, funny, and empathetic exploration of relationship grey areas, this episode is a must-listen for anyone baffled by blurry boundaries. The hosts affirm: sometimes honesty is less kind than keeping something to yourself—especially when it’s a “sad little wank.”

Transcript

[A]

This is a Global Player original podcast.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to the bonus episode of My Therapist Ghosted Me with me, Vogue Williams, Joanne McNally and Joe Atiwell. Do you ever get Uber okay? And, like, you'll. You'll go in for an Uber and you'll try and get it and then they'll cancel on you, and then all of a sudden there's a massive surge price. But in China, Uber drivers have figured out a loophole that pays them to do nothing. So, you know, if. If you. If you cancel on an Uber, you're charged a cancellation fee if you cancel, if you've ordered it and, like, it's on the way and stuff, which is fair enough. So some Uber drivers are selling really, like, scary profile pictures that look like ghosts and, like, just really evil people, and it's making people cancel the issue.

[A]

Shut up. Are you serious?

[B]

When they see what the driver looks like, they're like, I'm canceling that. I don't want him driving me anywhere. But they put up all these really creepy pictures and I thought, you know what? That's clever.

[A]

That is. That, like, that's like something you would do. That's smart. I like it.

[B]

It's.

[A]

That's a really smart business. Business plan I will get into. Do you know the amount of times I've stepped into cars? And only that they say, who are you? I would just sit there and draw and be sped up.

[B]

Well, do you know what that says a lot about us? Because I do the same. And no one, no one has even tried to not to keep us in the car.

[A]

They don't abduct women our age, folk. It's. It's negative. It's. It's actually insulting, to be honest. They don't want.

[B]

Excuse me.

[C]

Leading. Please be safe, make good.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

Imagine you got stolen.

[B]

I would like to remind you, by the way, when I was on my way into actually, Leicester Square, one one morning and a half, four in the morning, when I was. I used to do a radio show.

[A]

Think of anything worse. I would rather gargle silage.

[B]

No, you'd rather gargle slurry.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I. But I was on the way in and this man. It's not funny, but, like, this man stopped the car, he's like, get in the car, get in the car. And I was like, no, like, did he think I was just going to say, oh, yeah, hang on a second. Just unlock the back, will you?

[A]

Like, sorry about this. This is very reminiscent of the time that I tried to tell the Story about my stalker and then realized there was no point shine. It was actually really grim.

[B]

Well.

[A]

And we had to cut it from the podcast. This is very similar, very similar territory.

[B]

I'm just letting you know that I'm in demand. I'm in demand. Okay.

[A]

We on the E Scooter. Are you.

[B]

I don't have an E Scooter, actually, Joanne. I have a push scooter. Okay. Do you know what I can't wait for this summer? I can't wait for the next. Like a beat the Boss and stuff like that. Like all those.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Yeah. I hope.

[A]

I hope I am one, to be honest.

[B]

Well, you'd have to go to. You might be. I'll tell you what. If you book you,

[A]

I could be. I could be a clap and final boss. I don't have to go to Spain. I just have to get a bowler.

[B]

No, you said you're coming to Spain with me and my family, and now I know that you are pulling out and Gina and Amber are there.

[A]

That's obviously. Obviously I am, because I have no husbands and no children. Thanks, folk, for reminding me.

[B]

That is my carrot on a stick. Gina and Amber are going to be there, Joanne. Okay, can't wait. Don't forget who's coming.

[A]

Oh, I'll be. I'll be floating around your paddling pill. Don't worry, I'll be here.

[B]

Okay. Do you want a couple of listener emails?

[A]

Always.

[B]

Here we go. Is this cheating, or Please tell me this is normal.

[A]

Oh, well, I can tell. Sorry. I'm gonna. I'm gonna stick my head in the line here and say it's cheating.

[B]

I am gonna say.

[A]

Joe.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I know right away it is.

[B]

Joanne, you're very. No, you're very negative in this, okay?

[A]

I'm not in a good place mentally. All right, Come on, folk.

[B]

Okay. Could be the nicest story in the whole world.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[B]

Women, okay?

[A]

Women need to trust their own instincts. This is what I'm saying. If you feel like it's cheating, it's cheating.

[B]

I. Yeah, I do think that you should always trust your. Because you're feeling. You're usually right.

[A]

We need to just work towards the orgasm woman's commune that we have spoken about building several times.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

Joe will miss us, but he. He'll get over pretty quickly.

[B]

I, I. Listen, I agreed on the. The, the housing estate with all of our friends. I'm not doing orgasm. I do that privately, and I would not like to share that with anyone.

[A]

Well, actually, you weren't invited to the orgasm breakfast. So anyway.

[B]

Well, because I. I won't. I won't have time to go because I'll be doing it on my own in my house and I'll be too busy doing it.

[A]

Actually, the man we booked to pour the women off in the morning said your gate was too wide. And he said.

[B]

Did he?

[A]

Yeah, he said he'd be there all day. And he was like, I can't afford the resources.

[B]

Well, the man that you have booked, I have heard really bad reviews on. And I heard that he has long fingernails. And so I booked a different man because I didn't want the man with the long fingernails.

[A]

Okay, you're going back in your own arguments. Carry on.

[B]

So, yeah, you enjoy that. Scratchy, scratchy. Hello, Juwan. Vogue.

[A]

And Joe, you can enjoy never experiencing pleasure again.

[B]

Well, you can enjoy also feeling attacked while you're meant to be extremes pleasure because somebody wouldn't file his nails.

[A]

Sorry. No, I. I will happily be played like a guitar.

[B]

Okay, well, there. Okay. If you like a guitar, pick with this. Okay.

[A]

For this. Please carry on.

[B]

You enjoy yourself. Okay.

[A]

I have to go to Australia in half an hour.

[B]

I'd really love your take on something and I'd appreciate staying anonymous. A bit of context first.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My partner and I have been together five years and are engaged. We're deeply in love, and I've always felt our relationship was built on a level of trust I've never had before. Or so I thought.

[A]

Okay, I'm. I'm. Okay, I'm listening. I'm listening.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But when trust is being described as something in the past, I'm not thrilled.

[B]

He went on a stag this weekend, and when he got back, I could tell straight away something wasn't right. He had that guilty look and said he needed to tell me something. Oh, no. My st. Oh, no. My. My stomach has dropped for you. My stomach dropped. I hadn't worried once while he was away, but in that moment, my mind just spiraled and I was bracing for the worst. He told me he'd been dancing. Dancing sexily with a girl while very drunk and felt bad about it. At first I tried to be rational. I thought, people are human. Sometimes you find others attractive. And at least he told me straight away.

[A]

V, I've actually taken my fluffy pen out. I'm actually taking notes. Okay.

[B]

Even I. Sexy dancing is sexy dancing.

[A]

Sorry, I'm just gonna say. Sorry, Joe. I'm just gonna say it now. What man? What man goes home and tells their partner that they feel Guilty about sexy dancing?

[C]

Well, off the bat, my instinct says, an honest one. Because the ones who cheat don't say anything generally.

[B]

No, he didn't. He didn't have to say anything. That is true.

[A]

So. No, so. Or what he's doing is covering his back by going, someone might have seen me sexy dancing with this woman before. Before. I, like, carried it on and I want to have my back covered.

[B]

That's what I would say. Okay, let me finish. But later that night.

[A]

It's a Franic. Okay.

[B]

But later that night, my brain went into overdrive. I couldn't stop picturing it. I started asking more questions. It turns out they were grinding, he was aroused, and his hand was on her bum.

[A]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, sorry. I. I literally. I literally blinked and you've got. What is that a dream that she had or that happened?

[B]

No, she's asked him and this is what he's told her. So that's when it really hit me, and I said I wasn't okay with it. I shot up in bed and I was like, tell me everything that happened. Apparently, they met two girls who went bark rolling with them. He ended up talking with one of them all night. He had told her he was engaged, she was a mom and a night away from the kid. And they ended up dancing together and grinding. And eventually she tried to kiss him, but he turned away and left straight away, realizing it had gone too far.

[A]

Because that's where men draw the line. Just when it's about to. Just when they're about to actually, like, get some penetrative action, they're like, no, no, this has gone too far.

[B]

He went back to his Airbnb alone, but admitted he later masturbated thinking about her.

[A]

What the. Why is he telling her this?

[B]

I don't know. Why are you doing this to her? This is for his benefit and not her. If you really didn't cheat in her and you're telling her this stupid bollocks, that's gonna. Sorry, I.

[A]

Why on. Why is he telling her this? That's so mean. Why is he telling her?

[B]

Sorry. We're in 2026. Who masturbates to thoughts? What?

[A]

Sorry. Sorry. Vogue. Not everyone can afford the wardrobe of sex dolls that you have, okay? Because it cost a living. Crisis.

[B]

This guy's a.

[A]

Some people are just. Some people are just wanking off the thoughts.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Okay, not everyone can afford to have a top tier gold subscription to wherever you're hooked up to in your St. Bart's VR room. Some of Us are just out here with an electric toothbrush and a bit of spirit.

[B]

Oh yes, join. You literally have a caseload of dildos. Like you go in there. Which one for today? Like you don't even wash them. You. You use one and then it's gone. It's big because there's so many to get through.

[A]

Sorry folk, how dare you. I don't. Cuz I've lost them.

[B]

I've left a locker full for you.

[C]

2. 2 locker fs. Now there are 2. 2 locker fs.

[A]

I'm not comfortable taking dildos off your joke.

[B]

Not off me.

[A]

Okay, now I'm worried just dying them or something. Joke F1.

[B]

Now I feel completely stuck in my head. Part of me believes this is the whole story because I don't think you could handle the guilt of anything else happening. But part of me thinks I'll never really know the full details and my imagination is too good at making them up. I feel hurt and angry and I can't stop replying at all. He says he feels deeply sad at how hurt I am, but that I'm overreacting. Would you anyway? And that it's not as bad as I'm imagining, but it really doesn't feel small to me. This is like. This is inside thoughts that he has brought outside. Like you don't bring the inside. It's like, you know, if you see someone hot in the beach or something, like I did yesterday. I didn't look at the hot guy and be like, Jesus, man, look at him, he's hot, isn't he? I just. It's an internal thought. I just thought he's hot. And I moved on and like I'm sure spending things because I've seen really hot girls on the beach too. And I'm sure he thinks to himself they're hot and moves on. He doesn't come and tell me, Jesus Christ. Just thought in my own head that they're hot. Like God,

[A]

I. If I. Sorry, Joe, we're going to bring you in for this, if you don't mind, because you are.

[B]

Let me just. Let me just finish, okay? I keep trying to reframe it in my head. And something a bit pathetic where he was super messy drunk rather than sexy and then had a sad wank by himself. Yes, that's what he did. A sad little wank. And I'd say it wasn't even like a full hard one either. I'd say it was really that sad.

[A]

Sorry. So she's saying she's imagining that he had a sad Bank.

[B]

Even though she's imagining that he was just deranged and, like, it wasn't like this big, like, sexy, kind of like crazy, crazy, stupid love vibe. Yeah. It's just. I mean, I don't feel like. I think if. If something happened, he would have told you the full thing. Because I think that this is a man who feels the need to tell you absolutely everything. And you did not need to hear about the sad little wank. That was a sad little wank.

[A]

He's deranged for telling her. I do not know why he did that to her. Like, we are, like, programmed to be very territorial. Women are very territorial. We are sexually very territorial. It was like. It goes back to hunter gatherer stuff. Like, if. If someone's not hunting where, like, we'll die. Okay. So we protect our resources. Why on earth this person, this man told her, I wanked over some girl that I dry road in a club. Like, it's nonsense. But now, because he's claiming he did nothing. Like, crossed a line, whatever. In whatever version that presents itself, she's like, I just have to kind of suck it up. We don't want to know that you're thinking about riding other women. Like, sorry, we don't. Like, I can only speak for myself. I don't want to know. Why are you telling me now? I hate you. Of course you don't want to know.

[B]

That's just such a. Oh, hi. I went home and wanked over this person. Like, but it's not enough.

[A]

You can't leave. It's not enough to, like, like, tear apart the fabric of a relationship because it's kind of juvenile. It's just whatever. Like, we all do it. But, like, why tell me you're doing it?

[B]

The problem with men not talking to each other because if he had suggested to his friends he was going to go home and tell his. His fiance that he had wanked about the girl on the pub crawl, they would have said, you know what, pal? I don't think you should do that. I think that you should keep that to yourself.

[A]

To be honest, a man expressing this much feeling is kind of. Joe. Like, sorry, Joe, I know I keep dragging you into it, but you are a man, allegedly. And we sometimes do need the male opinion.

[C]

The reason I think he's telling the truth is because there's an element of selfishness to being that honest. It's absolving him his own guilt.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

By saying everything, he goes, well, I don't need to feel guilty anymore because I said everything and that's why I think it's probably true that nothing else happened. It's a little bit selfish, but I think it's.

[A]

Well, Esther Perel, who I live and die by, says she's like, when you tell someone that you cheated on them, it's basically like asking them to take a bullet for you.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it brings me back to that story. Remember that time I got cheated on and a girl mailed me like a year after it, like we'd broken up and was like, oh, by the way. And relayed the whole story for me, but was going through like this 10 step alcohol, AA kind of program. And one of her steps was like to stop feeling guilty about certain things that she did. And I'm like, I nearly wrote back. And then I was like, you know what? No, you're doing this for yourself. You're not doing this for me. You're telling me this to make yourself feel better. So how about you? And I'm going to ignore that.

[A]

Sorry. Also, I will flag, you've no personal relationship with that woman. Like in what, where and where and what and who and how does that absolute. Like, it's kind of. I know the kind of recovery program stuff is a lot about like kind of clean your path and keep the side of your street clean. You don't know her. What she's done is actually dropped a bomb into your life. And I think that's actually quite selfish. And Esther Pere says herself, it's like taking a bullet for the other person because now you have information that you have to sit with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you want to stay with them. But now you're. It's. You've done. They've done damage and this man has done weird. He's just done weird damage. I'd love to be the type of woman who's like, oh, I don't care that you were grinding up against some young one in a club and wanged over when he got home. But I'm not. So don't tell me about it. I don't want to know.

[B]

Also you're an RSL for doing that. Cuz you probably shouldn't have done that anyway. Grinding over someone in the club. But you're also then a bigger ourself for coming home. And just now your fiance just feels like. So do we think it's cheating or not? No, we don't think it's cheating.

[A]

I don't know. Like, to be honest, like, but also Joe, like what man comes home and gives crumbs like that? Like why on Earth, would you do that? Why is he a priest? Like, would he feel that guilty about grinding up against a woman that he has to come home and admit that stuff to his fiance? It doesn't make any sense. Like, what is that? It's like self harm. Like, why is he doing that? No, I'm asking you. It's not rhetorical, Joe. I'm asking you why he's not wanting to live with.

[C]

The guilt is what it is. Person who feels genuinely guilty and feel better about you being okay with it.

[A]

The guilt of having a wank over a stranger. Jesus Christ, Joe. If that was the case, it's an unfortunate detail. We'd all be in the guillotine. Why is he telling her?

[B]

Think about the weird sex dreams you have as well. And you're like, oh my God, that came in an hour. Imagine waking up and being like, here, here. Just so you know, I had a sex dream about this person. Like, will we talk about it? No, let's not talk about it exactly.

[A]

How about, no, I'm not waking up and telling my partner that doesn't exist that I rode Kevin Bacon for nine hours the night before. Like, just let it go?

[B]

Why are you telling anyone Kevin Bacon's married to his cousin?

[A]

I don't know if

[B]

he is. I read it. He is. Google it, Joe. He's married. He's married to his cousin. He is married to his cousin.

[A]

I mean, you can be removed from a cousin.

[B]

He is, you should be removed from your cousin. You shouldn't be putting things in your cousin if it's your cousin.

[C]

He is married to a distant relative.

[B]

Yeah, doesn't matter to on any relative. Like just come on Removed.

[A]

So you're, you're royal adjacent now. I, I, I despair. I watch you. She's going to be set up with. To be honest, the chin will be 6 foot 3.

[B]

Well, I hope you enjoyed listening to that. We have tried to stay on on script and just a little reminder, we are now on YouTube. We're even doing the bonuses us on YouTube. Much to Joanne's dismay, but here we are. Thanks for listening.

[A]

This has been a global player original production.