Bozoma Saint John on Trusting Your Destiny

Summary

Naked Beauty Podcast
Host: Brooke DeVard
Guest: Bozoma Saint John
Episode: “Bozoma Saint John on Trusting Your Destiny”
Date: March 30, 2026

---

Episode Overview

Live from Essence’s Black Women in Hollywood, this special episode features powerhouse marketer, author, entrepreneur, and Real Housewives of Beverly Hills star Bozoma Saint John (“Bose”). Brooke DeVard delves deep with Bozoma about trusting one’s own path, the importance of intuition, the realities of being “the only one” in corporate spaces, redefining beauty and confidence, boldly pivoting to new phases in life, motherhood, love, and launching a beauty brand on her own terms. The conversation is packed with insight, humor, authenticity, and vulnerability.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life, Identity, and Knowing One’s Worth

• Global Childhood’s Impact ([04:02])

  • Bozoma shared how moving around (Connecticut, Ghana, Kenya, DC, Colorado) helped her rapidly read rooms, adapt, and evaluate people’s intentions.
  • “If somebody is corrected three times and they still get it wrong, they don’t really care about me.” (Bose, [05:10])
  • Learning to assert her identity, starting with making sure her Ghanaian name was pronounced correctly.

• Beauty, Self-Perception, and Social Standards ([06:43])

  • Bozoma grew up confident in her beauty but was shocked by Western perceptions and pity towards Africans.
  • Memorable story: Her mother attempted to comfort her, only to hear young Bozoma respond, “I know I’m beautiful. I don’t know why they don’t know that. How is it they look at me and they don’t see how amazing I am?” ([09:20])
  • Navigates the oddness of “underhanded compliments” about being beautiful “for a dark-skinned girl.”

2. Career Expectations, Destiny, and Following Intuition

• Parental Pressure and Self-Discovery ([11:05])

  • Immigrant-parent expectations: Doctor, lawyer, or engineer were the only options deemed “secure.”
  • Only after college did Bozoma realize her ambitions were unique from her parents.
  • Her creative spark found a calling unexpectedly—first job at Spike DDB after temping, a “destiny moment” ([13:35]).

• Being ‘The Only’ in Corporate Spaces ([14:20])

  • Real talk: “There’s no pride in being ‘the only’… I wish there were other Black women around me in those rooms. It’s a very lonely place to be.” ([15:02])
  • Decision to always bring her full, authentic self—even if it ruffled feathers: “You’re gonna ‘other’ me anyway. I might as well come with my full self.” ([15:36])

• Building a Personal Brand in Corporate America ([18:17])

  • Met with accusations of arrogance, but asserts the importance of claiming and publicly owning accomplishments:
    • “Brand building is not you sitting back and letting you know, other people give you the recognition, because that will never come, ever.” ([19:48])
    • Encourages all women, especially Black women, to be vocal about wins and contributions.

3. Major Life Pivots & Trusting Intuition

• Hollywood Transition & Real Housewives ([21:54])

  • Against the advice of many, accepted offer to join RHOBH, trusting her instincts over external doubts.
  • Track record of pivotal, intuition-driven moves: leaving jobs, writing her book, launching new ventures.

• On Following Her Gut ([24:14])

  • “Intuition has guided me better than any external voice…The moments in time where I’ve trusted it have turned out better than other people anticipated.” ([22:18])
  • Example: Leaving Pepsi shortly after her husband passed led to a transformative ride—Beats by Dre, then Apple, then Apple Music keynote fame ([24:57]).
  • “If I hadn’t followed my intuition, none of those things would have happened.” ([26:24])
  • “I trust my destiny. I know there’s so much greatness in it. I’m not even anywhere near done.” ([47:46])
  • On knowing when to pivot: “Your intuition is your future self.” ([48:22])

4. Vulnerability, Motherhood, and Love

• Fertility, Health, and Representation on TV ([30:23])

  • Brave choice to show her fibroid surgery on TV, breaking taboos common among Black women.
  • “I felt it’s so important to open the door, kick it down… Why should we be ashamed about it?” ([31:34])
  • The decision sparked an outpouring of support and connection from viewers.

• Motherhood as Greatest Achievement ([40:28])

  • “I don’t just mother her [Lael] as an obligation… she has pushed every single assumption I’ve made about myself.” ([41:08])
  • Giving her daughter possibilities and pride motivates Bozoma’s boldest moves.

• New Love and Black Women Thriving ([43:11])

  • On getting engaged again: “It is difficult for us to find people who appreciate, celebrate, and respect [our success] without feeling inferior… Keely has all of that.” ([45:05])
  • “With therapy and Jesus, I am in this amazing place.” ([44:12])

5. Beauty, Glamour, and Self-Care Rituals

• On Beauty Confidence ([34:00])

  • “Some people are afraid to step into their glamour… But you’ve always been loud and proud about the beauty of it all.” (Brooke, [34:19])
  • Bozoma recommends starting with the outfit for red carpet looks, followed by hair, then accessories.

• Favorite Products and Rituals

  • Foundation: Lancôme - “They’ve always got my color right.” ([35:13])
  • Blush: MAC (esp. MAC Raisin for deeper tones) ([35:44])
  • African Sapo bath net: “If you take nothing else out of this conversation, please get yourself a sapo net. It will exfoliate your entire body.” ([36:11])
  • Drugstore loyalty: Eucerin lotion, Olay on the face ([36:42])
  • Minimal skincare: “I don’t have seven steps of skincare. I love it. So I’m here with the $7.99!” ([36:59])

• Eve by Bows: Self-Funding and Principles First ([37:05])

  • Forbes’ focus was on how much she’d raise, but Bozoma wanted full control: “I don’t want their money. I can get it. I don’t want it because I don’t want nobody to tell me what to do.” ([38:53])
  • Funded the brand herself, sold stock from every company she’s worked for to do it on her own terms ([39:56])

6. Reinvention, Purpose, and Listening to Your Inner Voice

• Knowing When to Move On ([46:06])

  • “You have to jump… The greatness doesn’t come to you when you’re sitting in safety. They say that ships were not built to sit at harbor, they were built to be out at sea.” ([46:51])
  • Ties the act of pivoting in life to trusting one’s intuition and destiny.

• Future Self as Guide ([48:13])

  • “It is a gift from both God and the future self…when you feel that calling, it is your future self telling you it’s time to go.” ([48:14])
  • “I believe 20-year-old me could hear 49-year-old me. And that is why I did it.” ([48:48])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Early Identity:
  “If somebody is corrected three times and they still get it wrong, they don’t really care about me.” (Bose, [05:10])

• On Being ‘the Only’ at Work:
  “There’s no pride in being ‘the only’… It’s a very lonely place to be.” (Bose, [15:02])

• On Brand Building:
  “Brand building is not you sitting back and letting…other people give you the recognition, because that will never come, ever.” (Bose, [19:48])

• On Career Courage:
  “If I hadn’t followed my intuition, none of those things would have happened.” (Bose, [26:24])

• On Self-Funded Entrepreneurship:
  “I don’t want their money… I want to move the way I want to move. I’m tired of being told how to do something.” (Bose, [38:53])

• On the Power of Intuition:
  “Your intuition is your future self telegraphing a message… Move.” (Bose, [48:29])

• On Beauty:
  “I feel most beautiful when I look in the mirror… I look at all of that and I think, I’m so dope.” (Bose, [51:37])

• On Motherhood’s Impact:
  “Being a mother to her has just pushed me to be the greatest version of myself.” (Bose, [42:31])

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:02] Early life, adaptive skills, and the importance of name
• [06:43] Self-image, Western beauty standards, and early confidence
• [11:05] Career expectations vs. real ambitions
• [14:20] Being “the only” in corporate America
• [18:17] Corporate brand building and criticisms
• [21:54] Pivoting from C-suite to reality TV (RHOBH)
• [24:14] Following her intuition through career/life transitions
• [30:23] Fertility, reproductive health, and openness on TV
• [34:00] Beauty routines, favorite products, and hair wisdom
• [37:05] Launching Eve by Bows and the decision to self-fund
• [40:28] Raising her daughter and how it fuels her ambition
• [43:11] Love after loss and the challenge of successful Black women dating
• [46:06] Reinvention, walking away, and trusting intuition
• [48:13] Future self as guide to life’s next chapter
• [51:37] “When do you feel most beautiful?”

---

Tone and Atmosphere

Authentic, bold, and inspiring—full of laughter, warmth, and unapologetic truth-telling, with Bozoma’s signature confidence and candor shining throughout. Both host and guest regularly affirm each other, fostering a sense of genuine sisterhood and celebration.

---

Ideal for anyone seeking inspiration to trust their path, transcend expectations, redefine beauty, and lead authentically—especially women looking to boldly own their space and destiny.

Transcript

[A]

It is officially March, and in my book, that means it's time to start celebrating spring. I went to Macy's for a little bit of style inspiration, and they have so many brands that I didn't even realize that they carried. For instance, did you know that they carry Byredo? Yes. One of my favorite, favorite fragrance houses of all time is now carried at Macy's. And because it's spring, I'm excited to think about updating my spring fragrance wardrobe. Now, in the winter, I love, like, a deeper, woodier scent, but as we transition into spring, I want something a little bit lighter. And so as we move into spring, let me tell you the two Byredo scents that are in my cart. The first is De Los Santos. I first smelled this on Sir John, literally the first day I ever met him. He was wearing this fragrance, and I was like, I'm sorry, what are you wearing? You smell incredible. It has this mint freshness with notes of Clary Sage, that fresh Ambroxan, and Palo Santo. Now, another fragrance that I absolutely love, Belle d'. Afrique, a classic. You cannot go wrong with Balafrique. It's got Bergamot, lemon, Vetiver, Amber. Gorgeous, gorgeous fragrance. In fact, I have the afternoon off, so I'm going to swing by Macy's and see what else they have in store for my spring beauty overhaul. Without further ado, let's get into today's episode. Thank you so much, Macy's, for sponsoring. Hello. Hello. You're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. And today's episode is a special, special one, because we are here at essence's Black Women in Hollywood with a special episode presented by Smart Water. When I thought about who I wanted to interview for today's conversation for black women in Hollywood, there was really only one name that came to mind. You know her. You've watched her walk into rooms that were not built for her and completely rearrange the furniture. Bozema St John has been the Chief Marketing Officer at Apple and at Uber, at Netflix, Forbes named her the number one most influential CMO in the world. Harvard Business School did an entire case study about her. She's one of the most recognizable people in corporate. Everyone knows her. This conversation is not about her resume, though, because what I've always admired about Bose is that she lives her whole life out loud. The grief, the joy, the reinvention. She created her novel the Urgent Life. And then when most people at her level would have retreated into a board seat or a consulting gig, she did something that everyone in the C suite was Clutching their pearls about, she went to Hollywood. She joined the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, now in her second season, and showed up not as a gimmick, but as herself. In 2025, she cemented her place in Hollywood by launching On Brand with Jimmy Fallon, bringing her 25 years of marketing genius into a mentorship format for the next generation. And if that wasn't enough, she's the founder of Eve by Bows, her own hair care line, funded entirely on her own terms. And this is what a pivot looks like when you've already proven everything you need to prove. It's not a retirement lap. This is a whole new race. Today's episode of Naked Beauty at essence's Black Women in Hollywood is made possible by Smart Water. Smart. Smart water has this pure, crisp taste that instantly feels like a reset. It's vapor distilled with electrolytes added for taste. Simple hydration that helps you stay clear and refreshed without overthinking it. From the purity of the water to the sleek can, every detail of smart water feels intentional. Visit drinksmartwater.com to learn more. Bose. Welcome to Naked Beauty.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, what an intro. Thank you.

[A]

What a life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What a life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And we're going to start from the beginning because you were born in Connecticut.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You moved around a lot. You were raised across Ghana. Kenya, dc, Colorado girl.

[B]

Yes. You know, everything.

[A]

Moving around a lot because I. I moved around a lot as a kid. It kind of does something for you in terms of being able to, like, read different rooms and reintroduce yourself to new people.

[B]

How.

[A]

How did it feel holding all of those identities as you moved across these various cities? Yeah.

[B]

Gosh. Well, first of all, I'm so happy to be here. I mean, this is such a special space time. You are incredible. I've been on your podcast before, and it feels. I feel so honored to have returned because, you know, I do have more to say. And I'm so glad that you see me and I see you. So thank you.

[A]

Thank you for always seeing me and supporting me.

[B]

And you're right. I think that, you know, having the opportunity to move around as a kid is both a blessing and a curse, you know, in that you don't ever feel quite stable. So that does something to your foundation, and it also allows you to try on different identities to figure out what fits. I had the extra pleasure of having a very Ghanaian name, which many people mispronounce. And so the fortitude, the grit, the determination to make sure that people said my Name correctly was formed, gosh, maybe in kindergarten, you know, early. And so already I had the ability to voice when somebody identified me wrong or incorrectly and make sure they knew. And by the way, I also learned very early, if somebody is corrected three times and they still get it wrong, they don't really care about me. And I learned that early. So it applies to my adult life too, where there are certain situations where if somebody doesn't address you properly, not even in how to pronounce your name, but just in general know that they don't actually care about you and so you should not care about them. You know, it's like a tit for tat type situation. And that has saved me more times than not, but it also allowed me to better cement who I am. And I don't think I could have articulated that, of course, when I was a kid, but it allowed me to solidify what I like, what I don't like. The types of people I want to be around. Even as a child, you know, that. That first day on the playground or that first day, like at the, in the cafeteria, where you have to figure out where to sit, where to sit again and again and again. But you, you start to pick up cues.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, so that you can read the room so much faster because you've been forced to. It's like, don't pick the wrong table now you'll be stuck there the whole year. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[A]

I'm curious if you felt beautiful growing up, because one of the things that we always talk about on Naked Beauty is how your early experiences with beauty and self perception kind of follow you throughout your life. Did you feel beautiful growing up?

[B]

You know, so here. This is actually such a great question because I have a crazy story and I don't. I don't know that a lot of people believe me, but if my mother was here, she'd corroborate the story. So here's what happened. Okay. When I was very young, you're right, I was born in Connecticut, but we lived in Ghana and Kenya for a lot of, you know, my early childhood. And because those were predominantly black and African spaces, I felt fine, you know, I just sort of fit in and it was okay. It was when I was 12, when we moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, and sort of like our final move, that was really shifting for me.

[A]

And 12 is a tough year. That's like the most awkward girl coming into your body.

[B]

Man. None of us wanna be 12 again, okay? Never, never. Not one of us. And coming from Ghana, I knew Africa differently from my classmates, from my teachers, from the pastor, you know, I was so shocked that people considered that we were worth one penny a day. I didn't know that before I got here, you know, that it was like people had it on their fridge. I would go over to a friend's house and there'd be a black face on their fridge and it'd be like one cent a day, you know, that's the value of the life. And I was so shocked by that. And I felt their pity and their misunderstanding that I was ashamed of where I came from, you know. And the part about the story, which is unbelievable, is that. And I remember it very clear, I was probably 13, maybe 14, so a couple years under my belt in Colorado, where you already know what the standard of beauty is. My best friend, who is one of my best friends still today, Summer.

[A]

Yes. I love your posts with her.

[B]

Oh my gosh. And she looks like a Summer, you know what I mean? She's got the blonde hair, green eyes, she was tall, she was really popular, you know, all of the things. And everybody loves Summer, you know, all the boys love Summer, all the girls wanted to be Summer and they didn't want to be me. They didn't ask me out, you know, And I was looking at myself in the mirror and I remember so clear. I was 14, maybe 13. I was looking at myself in the mirror and. And my mom walks in and she's like, what's going on? You know, like. And she knew immediately that I was probably looking at my face and my body and comparing. And she was like, you know, you're so beautiful. She was, you know, trying to reinforce or affirm me. And I turned on her and I was like, I know that. I know I'm beautiful. I don't know why they don't know that. Like, how is it that they look at me and they don't see how amazing I am? And that's what made me cry. I never doubted that I was beautiful. I never wanted to be fairer skinned. I never wanted a sharper nose. I never wanted thinner lips. I never want, I never want a smaller butt girl. Cause the booty's good. I never wanted those things. And even as an adult with the criticism of our features or people being so sensitive about whether or not you're dark skinned or, you know, it's like folks affirming me for being dark and confident, like sometimes I'm like, but why wouldn't I be again, right? Like, what I don't understand what the problem.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, why should I be affirmed for that? Because I know that already.

[A]

Right. It's an underhanded compliment.

[B]

Yes, yes. But it's also like, it comes with the underpinning that it's incredible that you're confident that you walk around thinking you're beautiful, even if you're black and you're dark skinned and you're from Africa. My God, like, ooh, you overcame a lot. And I'm like, no, I didn't. I was born this way. And I was born beautiful. Gorgeous, in fact.

[A]

And that's why seeing you in these spaces like the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and seeing your glamorous trips to Ghana like you are helping to rewrite that narrative at scale in such an important way.

[B]

I really hope so.

[A]

Yes, you definitely are. I want to go to your parents because I know that, that there were early discussions about you being a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. When did you realize that your brilliance lived somewhere else entirely?

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that till after college.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting because I. I have said this publicly before, but you know, because my parents had such a high standard for us. And yes, being immigrant parents, I think sometimes that has even more pressure on children to be a doctor, a lawyer, engineer, something that they felt could be reliable, that couldn't be taken away from you. And having the opportunity to have an education, they were like, girl, you should go for it. So I drew freehand, I still do as a kid. And my dad was like, oh, no, you can't be an artist. You should be an architect. You know, because I could draw. So it was that kind of mentality with which we grew up. And I wasn't aware that my. Or let me put it this way, I didn't know where my ambitions started and where my father and my mother's ended. They were just all in the same thing. I didn't know that there was a difference. And so in college, I was pre med, but I also majored in English and African American studies. And I was also the president of ujima, which is our Black Student Alliance. And I was also a cheerleader. You know, it's like. And I also ran track. Like I was doing all of these other things that were aiding my artistic side, my storytelling side. But I knew that I had to go to med school. Cause that was the most reliable thing. And so while studying for the mcat, I moved to New York for a year to take a break to study hard so I could score well, which My parents approved until I said, you know what? Actually. Actually, I think I want to go get a job and, like, just see what else is going on. And they were appalled. They were just like, no, absolutely not. But this is where I feel like, you know, it's like your faith and destiny all kind of work in tandem, if you were walking the walk and taking the steps, because I did take that big leap, even though I was completely ignorant of what it meant. And when I got the job with Spike Lee, which. Which was a total destiny moment because I was temping, there was no other job for me to have. And they called me into Spike's office because he had fired his assistant the day before, and he needed somebody to answer the phones. And I walked into his ad agency that he had only created about a year and a half before I got there.

[A]

40 acres.

[B]

Yeah, well, 40 acres was a film company. Spike DDB was his ad agency.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And so I walked into the ad agency. I'm answering the phones. It was just a world that I had no idea of. I didn't know was a career. It was just. I didn't know it existed. So I think if I had known it existed, maybe I would have followed that pursuit, but I had no clue. And so, for me, it was like, the sciences made sense, math made sense. You know, even the law or politics. Like, those made sense to me. I. I didn't know this creative world could have stability or success in it.

[A]

Right. And that you could be extremely successful and make a lot of money in it.

[B]

Oh, girl, I did not know that. My dad is still arguing with me about it.

[A]

Well, as you climbed the corporate ladder, you were very often the first or the only black person in the room at places like Uber and Netflix and Apple. And I'm wondering what toll that takes on you, emotionally, spiritually, creatively, to be the first and the only in the room.

[B]

Ugh. It's so terrible.

[A]

It's not great.

[B]

It's awful. You know, and it's such a complicated thing to talk about, because I think I'm supposed to be proud of it. You know, I'm supposed to be like, yes, I crashed through the ceiling.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I made it. And I made way for other people.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I think it's the making way for other people that you've done,

[B]

which is very noble.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's a great thing, and I appreciate that, and I'm very proud of the fact that that happens, but it sucks as the person who's doing it. You know, there's no pride in it, and there's very little joy in it. It's like, yes, I wish there were other black women around me in those rooms. It's a very lonely place to be. And on top of that, you're going to be othered regardless. And so I learned also very early on that, like, well, you're gonna other me anyway. I might as well come with my full self.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're not gonna like me if I just pull back my hair in a Chanel anyway. You know what I mean? Like, you're still gonna be like that black girl over there.

[A]

Right? Right. If I.

[B]

So I might as well come with my braids.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

If I try to blend in, you're still going to other people.

[B]

Oh, my God. It so appalled people when I showed up on the COVID of the New York Times and the headline said, is this the woman who will save Uber? And I had my braids cornrows in front and everything. You know, it's like. But to me, it was like, I'm just showing up to myself. I wasn't trying to make a statement, right. I'm just like, girl, I like my braids. Yes.

[A]

This is who I am.

[B]

And then tomorrow I'll show up with my Beyonce weave. Okay, it might be blonde.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You don't know what I'm gonna do. And I think that also comes across we making sort of jokes about it with like, you know, what feels like superficial things, but it's not. No, it's very much penetrates into the inside. And then also how you present your ideas and how you talk and how then people respond to you. It goes much deeper than just your hair or your outfit.

[A]

Yes. It also helps to be undeniably smart on top of it, buttoned up, have all the data, have all of the numbers. Because I know, you know from conversations with my mom that you were always undeniable. So you're gonna get the hair and the makeup and the outfit, but you're also going to get excellent ideas executed at the highest level.

[B]

Oh, for sure. And the thing is that, like, that can't be said enough because we already know we say it all the time, Right. We gotta be twice as good. But the frustration in that is that I know I'm twice as good and I don't often get the recognition. Now here's the thing is that of course, now people say, oh, but you do get recognition. You've been awarded this and awarded that and awarded that. And I'm like, show me a peer who has the credentials I do. Show me one.

[A]

There are none.

[B]

There are none. There are actually none. And if I were a white man, there would be statues built. I'd have. Somebody's school would have put me on the building already. I have no peers.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Yet I'm just supposed to be happy with the accolades. And I'm not even saying that I need a statue, although I think it'd be cute. But my point is that I recognize that, you know, the successes I've had, the ideas I've had, the changes I've made to culture, to companies, to industries, has been significant and I'm proud of that. Because, yes, I'm able to show up as my full self and be as badass as I wanna be, but at the same time I'm still frustrated because I'm like, you're not giving me enough flowers and I demand them. I don't even want them. I demand them.

[A]

Yes. And that gets into something I'm very curious to hear about you building your brand in a corporate setting. Because it is not always encouraged. You know, say, don't shine too bright. It's not about you. You have always been intentional about building your personal brand, which elevates every brand that you've worked at.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But it's a complicated dance and people have lots of opinions.

[B]

Oh, they sure do.

[A]

So how have you navigated that?

[B]

How have I navigated that? I'm still navigating it, you know, because it comes with so many names and I've been called every name. Girl.

[A]

What do people call you?

[B]

Oh, they call me arrogant. I heard that like three weeks ago from someone who remain unnamed, but she's a CMO at a company and we were thinking about wanting to work together on a partnership and the feedback was that, oh well, you know, she's so arrogant, ma'. Am. Just cause I beat your ass in what you do. But you know, but the thing is that I think there is also, of course there's extra scrutiny put on us that we are not supposed to be so confident. Right. Because back to what was happening when I was 14 is still the expectation now, which is that like, how dare I be so confident with being black and being a woman and being successful? Like, how dare I? Like somebody should be telling me that and I should be so grateful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Instead of me saying it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that is the danger of being confident and saying it out loud. You know, that's where the brand building comes in. Is that saying it out loud? Because brand building is not you sitting back and letting you know other people give you the recognition, because that will never come, ever. And so it means that you do have to stand up and use the I word instead of we when you have accomplished something, because that's how then you are known. That's how you're building your brand. But it comes with the name calling of being arrogant or being a bitch or fill in any number of blanks. But I do think it is critical. It is critical. It is critical for us to stand up in our presence and in our knowing and say those things. And by the way, that goes for all women. I feel like women don't do that enough in general. And black women, of course, get penalized a lot for doing the same things that their white male counterparts would do.

[A]

Yes. And I think now with social, it's easier than ever. It's like, post the LinkedIn update, like, yeah, let everyone on Instagram know that you put together this amazing event.

[B]

Yes. I don't know why we don't do that more often. You know, because the thing is, I'm not saying go out there and lie and exaggerate, you know, don't take credit for somebody else's work now that you'd be a bitch. Okay. However, if you did this part of the project, say that. Claim it. You know, because you are building a reputation and a brand based on what you are capable of. Okay. Because here's the thing. Maybe homegirl is right. I am arrogant. But in the lane I'm in, I didn't claim to be all these other things. I don't claim to be everybody's cmo. I'm a CMO in this, though, and I'm really good at it. I am the best at it. And so to me, it's like, look, you have to build your brand based on what you are good at and what you're able to contribute. We're not going to make up other things then put all kind of sauce on it. You know, it's like you got to also be truthful and honest about what you're contributing. And then. Yes. Stand very firmly in that.

[A]

Absolutely. Want to talk about your Hollywood pivot?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, because that jump from C Suite to Hollywood, like you said, you have no peers. I can't think of anyone else who's done that. So when Bravo came to you with Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, everyone in your circle, people had doubts. People said, maybe you shouldn't do it. Maybe people said, definitely don't do it.

[B]

Definitely don't do it.

[A]

But you said yes anyway.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What made it a yes for you?

[B]

And this is also a very complicated answer because I do feel like it's a very individual choice. Right. But I am very practiced in listening to myself and not taking outside counsel on whether I should do this or do that or do that. Right. I often talk about intuition and what that looks like for me. And it has guided me better than any external voice or anybody who's weighed scales with me on the pro and con lists or the five year plan. It has done a much better job for me of being like, yes, go here or no, don't go there. And the reason why I trust it so much is because the moments in time where I've trusted it have turned out better than other people anticipated. And you already know there are so many authors of success. You know, look at my resume and people will be like, I knew she'd always make it. I knew she was gonna be the greatest when I met her, you know. However, what happened in between those times? If I tell you each individual story, you'll get why the doubters doubted. But then if I tell you, well, I just felt it and I knew it. It sounds improbable, yet it worked out.

[A]

It worked out.

[B]

So. And one quick story is that when in 2013, my husband passed away from cancer, we had a four year old daughter, I put Beyonce on the halftime stage that year. I. I had Bruno Mars next after that, Katy Perry. After that, Lady Gaga. After that, like all incredible run, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And my husband died. And two months into, maybe a month and a half into bereavement, I came back for my review. And my boss at the time told me that I wasn't hitting enough home runs so I wouldn't be promoted and I wouldn't get a raise.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I went home and I cried. I cried, I cried my eyes out if I hadn't cried enough already. But over the grief. And I knew, like it was just the knowing. And I point to my gut. Cause that's where my intuition is. But some people have the vibes all over. Some people, it's like the Holy Spirit in their head. You know what I mean? Mine is right here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I went home and I knew, I knew I had to leave. I knew the place was no longer safe for me. And I knew that my grief was too big to still be in New York. And so I got a call from somebody who knew Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine and that they had beats by Dre which was successful. They were building Beats Music off of it. And although the brand had been up for maybe two months, they were looking for a head of marketing to come and turn the brand into something big. And they knew of me because of what I was doing. So they made me the offer and I took it. And it was four months after Peter had died.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And everybody said I had lost my mind. People were like, wait, you have a four year old daughter? You're gonna take this new job? You're gonna move across the country by yourself? Like, you know, this is just grief talking. You should just sit down, give it a year, you know, just heal, get some therapy. I'm like, bitch, I don't need therapy. I do need therapy. I still go to therapy. Just FYI. Had a therapy session yesterday. Anyway, but it makes sense on paper, right? Because yeah, something so tragic and life altering, you should probably sit your ass down.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And not move. And don't make any fast decisions. But I was like, I'm out of here.

[A]

I moved intuitively. It felt right.

[B]

I knew I had to go. Girl. It was calling me like I couldn't stop it. Even my own mother was like, girl, don't do it. Don't go. I've seen people lose their minds. And she is right. People do lose their minds over situations like this. This trauma is heavy. But I left. Came to LA three months after I was in the job. We were acquired by Apple. I became the head of iTunes and Apple Music built that, did the Apple keynote stage. Everybody was talking about me, said I was the greatest thing to hit the Apple stage since Steve Jobs. That wouldn't have happened if I stayed in New York suffering in my grief, shrouded in my depression. It wouldn't have happened. And yes, people want to talk about that Apple keynote. And I'm like, that doesn't happen unless I follow my intuition. I'm telling you, it doesn't happen.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so when I left Netflix, which was also another very painful decision to write my book, you know, to have the space to be able to do it, I knew was what I had to do. People were doubting my ability. Even though it's like the fourth CMO job I had, they said I was a hack that couldn't keep a job. You know, I'm just like, what are you doing? What more do I have to prove?

[A]

I know.

[B]

And so when the call came to do the Housewives, I felt it. I was like, okay, I can feel that this is the next turn. This is the next thing I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to go and tell this story now.

[A]

Felt correct.

[B]

But everybody said, how could you do it? Like, you're gonna ruin your reputation. Just gonna go on TV and fight with women. You know, you're gonna. Like, you're in the hall of fame. Like, why would you debase yourself this way? But it felt to me like the right place to go. And interestingly enough, because there hadn't been another decorated businesswoman.

[A]

Yeah. Like corporate. She really works.

[B]

We work, girl.

[A]

She's an actual boss, by the way.

[B]

Right? Yes. Like, even Kathy Hilton was like.

[A]

They were all gagged.

[B]

Yeah. Because I was like, I'm both. She was like, boss.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I'm like, no bows. I thought she was mispronouncing. I was about to go back to my playground days and be like, girl, you bet. Say my name right. You know what I mean? But she was saying, boss.

[A]

She was giving you your accolade.

[B]

Yes. And in that very first episode, you're correct. They ran down my resume.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What I did not know was that Jimmy Fallon had sold his show on Brand to NBC. He'd been searching for a CMO for a year. He interviewed a dozen. Hadn't found one that had both the TV chops and also the chops in the boardroom until he saw that episode.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And was like, oh, my God. Called my people. We get on a zoom. Five minutes, the deal's done. Five.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

We were. We were in business.

[A]

Just from episode one.

[B]

From episode one. So if I hadn't done Housewives, I wouldn't get the show with Jimmy on Brand, which is actually a marketing show, which shows my 25 years of experience all at one time in primetime NBC.

[A]

Yes, it all connects.

[B]

But then the people who Sasha and do Housewives were like, oh, we knew she'd be a star on tv. We knew it.

[A]

Of course she was going to come

[B]

and change the game.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

So it's now season 15. What did your experience of season 14 teach you about going into this next season?

[B]

Oh, God, not much, honestly. It's a very tricky, tricky world. You know, I think telling your story on TV every day for people to see the inner workings, the warts, the happiness, the successes, the conflict, the resolution makes people feel like they really know you, and therefore, they can have an opinion on you.

[A]

Today's special episode of Naked Beauty is brought to you by Smart Water. There's something about that first sip of smart Water. It's pure, it's crisp, and it Gives you a second to reset. Smart water is vapor distilled with electrolytes added for taste. Simple, refreshing hydration that doesn't ask for attention, but makes a difference that you can feel. It's the kind of water you reach for when you want to feel clear, focused, and centered wherever your day takes you. I love that it's effortless, pure tasting with a crisp finish every time. Even the can reflects that smooth, same clarity. Sleek, minimal, intentional design. Smart water fits into the moments where you want to feel your best. Refreshed, centered, and ready for what's next. Smart water purity you taste, hydration you feel. Visit drinksmartwater.com to learn more. You've also been extremely vulnerable in terms of your own fertility journey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's something that a lot of people would maybe choose not to show on camera.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why was it important for you to be vulnerable in this?

[B]

Well, interesting enough, I. It started actually in my first season when I had my fibroid surgery on camera.

[A]

Yes. You know, which is something that so many black women.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Yes. But it's rarely talk about.

[A]

Yeah. And it's kind of not talked about.

[B]

Yeah. I had close girlfriends who texted me after seeing the episode and saying, girl, I had. I had that surgery. And I was like, you.

[A]

Did you never tell me?

[B]

Like, I didn't even know. And it was surprising to me. And also not surprising because so much about our reproductive health feels shameful to talk about. And I think that's why we don't talk about it, is that we're just supposed to be these perfect, healthy women who just pop out babies or something. It's very strange. But we're human, right? And so there are things that happen, and why should we be ashamed about it? And funny enough, I actually called Cynthia Bailey when I was about to talk about fibroids because she had done it but had not showed her surgery or her recovery on the show. And she was like, ugh. You know, it's a tough thing because, you know, people are gonna judge you for it. And I was doing it because I wanted to make sure. Well, first, from just a health standpoint, that I was good, but also because I very much want to expand my family. And so all of these things were tied together. And she was like, who? You're opening up yourself to a lot of judgment. You know, people are judging you on your hair, they judge you on your clothes, they judge you on how you raise your kids. Like, you sure that you want them to judge your womb, too? And I was like, You Right. But I decided to go forward because it's. I felt it's, like, so important to open the door, like, kick it down, you know, if I've had practice, like, crashing ceilings, kicking down doors where nobody wants to go, I've done it already, so why would this be fearful to me? I'm like, I already did it. And so it felt natural in this season to come back and sort of the continuation of where I am, because I had my surgery, which was successful. I want to expand my family even at a mature age. Geriatric, they call it.

[A]

I had a geriatric pregnancy because I was 35 when I was pregnant. So this is a geriatric pregnancy.

[B]

Girl, then I just not used to that.

[A]

I'm over here.

[B]

Just dust, huh? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's just.

[A]

I tell you, they need to retire the term.

[B]

They really need to retire the term.

[A]

It needs more. Better marketing, better branding.

[B]

Oh, for sure. For sure.

[A]

Fertility, we're also for sure.

[B]

But I've received, when I tell you, hundreds, maybe thousands of messages from women, regardless of age, regardless of class, regardless of ethnicity, about their own journeys. People who are encouraging, who are like, girl, go for it. Oh, my God, I did four rounds. You know, you can do it. You know, people who are critical. You say, I'm too old. Hang it up. Shouldn't you do something else? Why would you risk this? Don't have a baby for a man. You know, all of the things. But at the same time, I go forward in telling the story because I do think it's important for us to cut out the shame of it, you know, the. The embarrassment of it. You know, just because I. I am trying to have my baby with medical help does not mean that I'm any less of a woman or a mother.

[A]

And it's so important that we have those narratives.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now the hair, the beauty, the glamour of it all. And. And this is naked beauty. So we're gonna have to get into it.

[B]

Oh, we good. Let's do it.

[A]

Your style has always been so bold and unapologetic and just so glamorous. Like, you truly are such a glamorous woman. And I think some people are afraid to step into their glamour. You know, they're just like. It's what we were talking about earlier. Just like, just. I'm gonna play in the background and be humble and. But you've always been loud and proud.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

About the beauty of it all. What are some of your. Like, go to favorite products when you wanna make A statement.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Well, we could go body care. We could go makeup.

[B]

We could go. Oh, there's.

[A]

We're getting into the hair of it all, of course.

[B]

Yes, yes. But there's so many places, right, Ca I. I mean, I like bold patterns and colors and jewelry.

[A]

And when you're doing a red carpet look, do you start at the outfit? Like, where do you start?

[B]

I do start at the outfit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I like. I like to do the. The look first. The dress first. The dress first or whatever, you know, and then it's the hair. It's the hair after that. Before jewelry and shoes and bag and all that. Yeah, it's the outfit first. And then I'm like, what kind of hair do I want?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

With the outfit.

[A]

What are some of your go to favorite makeup products?

[B]

Oh, gosh, I have a lot of them. Because I do love my glam, you know, I love. I love a beat. Okay, well, for my foundation, I'd like Lancome.

[A]

Okay. Classic.

[B]

Yeah. They've always got my color right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So. And that's important. The base is important. I didn't start wearing blush until just a couple of years ago, by the way. I was also. I was always so annoyed because I was like, but I don't blush naturally. Why should I put some red stuff on my cheeks? But then I realized that, oh, well, this is. It's all decor.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

It's like. It's just decor. So it's fine.

[A]

It's all decorated. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love a blush moment. What are your go to blushes?

[B]

Oh, gosh. Well, actually, you know what? It's Mac.

[A]

Mac. Mac has some hits.

[B]

Yeah, Mac.

[A]

Mac has some little Mac raisin.

[B]

Oh, yeah, girl. Yes. You know, because it needs to. I like a deeper blush.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I want it to have some depth to it. I feel like Mac does a really good job.

[A]

Your skin always looks so smooth. I know. The sapo nets which you put me on to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I still buy those nets. I was like, what? What in the American washcloth? Have I been wasting my time?

[B]

Oh, wasting your time. That is actually. That is the message.

[A]

African net.

[B]

Yes, that is the message for today. Okay. If you take nothing else out of this conversation, please get yourself a sapo net. Okay. S A P O. Right. It looks like a fishing net, which it kind of is, but it will exfoliate your entire body. It lathers very well, and it is in a big, long, like, you know, net, so it can get to your back. You know what I'M saying get all the places polish.

[A]

It's a game changer.

[B]

Oh, man, it's great.

[A]

What are you lathering your body in after shower?

[B]

Okay, so here's the other secret. I'm really a drugstore beauty queen. So I swear by Usurin lotion and heavy cream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm an oil of a lay girl on my face. I don't have seven steps of skin care.

[A]

Working girl.

[B]

Yes. It's clear. I love it. So I'm. Yeah, I'm here with the 799.

[A]

Yes. I love it. I love it. Okay. The launch of Eve bye bows in 2024. Now you put your own money into it. Most people, and I interview a lot of beauty founders that have a 16th of your connections. Right. That do not have access to the kind of capital that you have access to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they still go and raise money.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, everyone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You could have raised hundreds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could have raised a lot of money. Millions of dollars.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To launch your brand. But you said, I am going to self fund this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And do it on my own terms. Why was that important to you?

[B]

Oh, gosh, Brooke. So here's what happened on this particular part of the story. Ego is a very strange thing. You know, it'll make you do stupid things. So ego was one of those things that was trying to block me when I wanted to leave Netflix to, you know, have space to write my book because I didn't want people saying that I couldn't get another job, you know, that I couldn't handle it. That somehow without the title of cmo, I'd be less than. If I'd listened to it. I certainly would have been sitting here talking to you about all of this now. Right. None of the things that we've talked about in the last 20 minutes would have happened. When I decided to launch Eve by Bows, I felt very similarly, you know, that my ego was ahead of me. So everybody was in my ear about that. Right. The people who knew I was planning to launch were like, oh, you are going to make headlines with how much you raise. You're gonna be the first black woman to raise $300 million to start a business. And you're going to get the COVID of Forbes. And Forbes was telling me that, you know what I mean? The editor in chief was like, how much money will you raise?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And we're going to write a story about that. And my ego was ahead of me because I was like, yeah, you know, I want that title too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, why not? But Then when I really sat and thought about it and my gut was feeling like, I don't want their money. I don't want it. Not because I can't have it. I can't get it. I don't want it because I don't want nobody to tell me what to do. You know, I want to move the way I want to move. I'm tired of being told how to do something or what product to launch or how to talk about it or the language to use. I want to name it the way I want to name it. Not because the market demands it, because I feel it culturally.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I want to build a factory in Ghana not because it's economically sound, but because I want to help women in Ghana. Like, I don't want to have to make decision based on how it's going to appear on the balance sheet. And so I was like, I've made a lot of money.

[A]

Right. This can be something for me that

[B]

I have full control over. Yes. And by the way, I don't actually think I've said this out loud anywhere, which is that I have stock from every company that I've worked for. Every single company, lots of it, period. And I sold most of it in order to build my own thing.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That's the bet. I'm like, why make this money for these other people? If I can't, then get rid of it so I can build the thing I believe in. And that's the point I wanted to prove. And Forbes wrote that story.

[A]

Yes. I love it. I love it.

[B]

Yeah. So, you know, the thing is that, like, look, at the end of the day, the point I'm making is that, you know, I'm going to get a story in Forbes. Which one is it that I want to tell you?

[A]

Yes. And the story that is your reality is a much more powerful story to tell because it was done on your own terms.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It was done on your own terms. We're going to talk about. Lovely. This next chapter. You've described raising Lael as your greatest achievement.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

What has she taught you about yourself that the boardroom never could?

[B]

Oh. Oh. What has Lael taught me? I mean, my God, it's such a loaded question. You know, I definitely wouldn't be the woman I am without her. It feels like such a cliche thing to say, but it's so true. It's like I made a post a couple weeks ago because I gifted her a Maserati for her 16th birthday. People had opinions about that.

[A]

And it's so fabulous. And those opinions are shrouded in jealousy.

[B]

Oh, good shit. Don't I know it. But it was fascinating to me because it did really make me reflect, you know, on what it has taken to get to this point and what she has been to me in the process. Because I don't just mother her as an obligation or like the responsibility of raising a responsible human, but she has pushed every single assumption I've made about myself, about the world that I want for her, the possibilities that are open to her. You know, I see myself through her eyes and through the possibilities in her life, and that makes me more bold. You know, it's like, I didn't get a Maserati when I was 16. I wish I did, but I did not. But when she is sitting in her car with her music turned all the way up and she feels so sexy and cool, I love that for her. And I can see myself sitting up straighter because, like, I feel her pride. Oh. It's like I want to create the biggest and boldest company because I want her to see that it is possible.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To build a billion dollar company with black women and women of color. Centered.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it makes me bolder because I'm like, I want her to see that. And so being a mother to her has just pushed me to be the greatest version of myself.

[A]

I always say that it's so important that our kids see us having a career that is truly fulfilling, because if they see us doing anything other than that, they will not believe us when we say, chase your dreams. You can be whatever you want to be.

[B]

Absolutely. And by the way, this also ties to love, which is, you know, one of the topics that we're going to

[A]

talk about, because congratulations, by the way. Thank you. I engaged. Your camera's here. We need a little ring moment. Yes. You are now engaged to Keely Watson.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what does this chapter of love look like in your life?

[B]

Oh, gosh, it's such a. It is a very vulnerable chapter. Because when my husband died, I really didn't feel like anything like this would happen again. That probably sounds insane to somebody. I was 37.

[A]

You were so young. You didn't see yourself falling in love again or you imagine yourself?

[B]

I didn't. I couldn't see that I would ever be less fearful.

[A]

What was the feeling of being.

[B]

Of him dying, you know, of losing a partner? I'd never want to sit in the front of the pew ever again, you know, and it just felt like I didn't. I didn't Want to risk that, you know, So I kept it very controlled. I'm not saying I didn't have my little dalliances. Okay. Because you need the pipes cleaned every now and then. However. Did I just say that out loud?

[A]

You did, and I'm so here for it.

[B]

I did, and it's true.

[A]

And that's part of self care.

[B]

Why would I lie? You know? But I wasn't vulnerable enough to allow for anyone to get close enough for me to consider taking on anybody else's name or making commitment where I could feel that kind of pain ever again. But with therapy and Jesus, I am in this amazing place and it is so wonderful. You know, I think also on top of it, the additional difficulty, outside of my own psychological and mental stresses of it all, is the fact that I am a highly successful black woman.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it is difficult for us to find people who appreciate that, celebrate it and respect it without feeling inferior.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Keely has all of that, you know, in that he has support, he is a champion. He is very confident in his own success and therefore is not afraid of mine. It has also been so revealing to me to be able to count on somebody else because I've been building by myself for so long that it is a relief. You know, I didn't realize that the burden was so heavy until he said, well, let me carry some of that.

[A]

That's true partnership.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a really, really beautiful thing. And it's also amazing to have Lael witness this. You know, that, like, you can be as vulnerable even as a successful woman in love. And that it is okay also to love again, even if your heart has been broken, you know, and so I'm really proud that she gets the front row seat at the age she's at, you know, to be able to experience

[A]

this with me, it's so important to see.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm at my final two questions, which I could talk to you all day. We could. Is this not like, just. I'm like, taking in all of these gems. Clarity. What's next? You've had to reinvent yourself multiple times, and not because you failed, just because you outgrew the container.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. So you reinvented yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you know when it's time to walk away from something that still looks good from the outside and step into whatever your next chapter is? Because I think for people listening to this and watching this, they may be at a crossroads where they're like, I know I want something more. I know that there's Something bigger ahead of me. But they don't quite know how to get there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or walk away. Right. Because walking away is. It's hard to do.

[B]

Yeah. There's so many ways to answer this. And a lot of it will feel kind of like out there, I was out there. Because I really do believe that you have to jump, you know, that like the greatness doesn't come to you when you're sitting in safety. You know, they say that ships were not built to sit at harbor, they were built to be out at sea, you know, so what are you doing in the safe harbor if you really want your sails to blow? They're not happening in the harbor, honey.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So you got to go out to sea. And I think it's hard for us to see ourselves out to sea because it is vast and open. And what if there's a big storm and you get overtaken? Shipwreck. Oh, no. But what if you, like, sail and discover something new and amazing? Right. You know, it's like I'm just. I want us to be more trusting of our destinies.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know that like I, I truly, I trust my destiny. I know there's so much greatness in it. I'm not even anywhere near done. And that is why I continue to pivot. That's why I haven't retired and gone off to the island. Although that sounds very lovely. However, I believe that we have that calling. And again, I'm going to go back to the intuition. It is a gift from both God and the future self.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know that I think when you feel that calling or you feel that pull, it is actually your future self telling you that it's time to go.

[A]

Wow, that's really deep. Your intuition is your future self. Is your future self kind of telegraphing a message from your current self?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Move.

[B]

You know, it's kind of like this is going to sound so out there, but I'm going to keep going, which is that I do believe that time is like a figment, you know, and so when I look back at 20 year old me and I'm like, girl, don't go to med school.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Move to New York. Believe me, you want to move to New York. I believe 20 year old me could hear 49 year old me. And that is why I did it.

[A]

I just got chills hearing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's interesting because it was recently this trend on Instagram and TikTok where it was just like, you know, I think the line was something like, you know, you should do X, Y and Z. Believe me, it will. It will happen.

[A]

Yeah, it'll work out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it'll all work out. Or like, you know, it's important you say yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, did you see that trend? It was like, yeah, like, you know, 20 year old me, it was important that I, you know, that you go out with that guy. It'll work. You know what I mean? And so I do believe that time is a figment. And so 80 year old me is whispering things to me right now and I'm hearing it and I'm believing it instead of thinking that, like, oh, what is that? You know, it's like, that's just my fear talking. No, bitch, it's your future self. Yes, go.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yo, like I. I think about that all of the time. That the knowledge I have now, I am looking back and saying, girl, yeah, like, go do that thing. Make that move. Keep going. You know, I believe it's happening with the woman I was three years ago, you know, and being like, don't worry, girl, you don't need that job at Netflix. You better get on, because there's something really great after that. I promise you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that was what I was feeling then, and I'm so glad I listened.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I want us to believe more in our destiny. I want us to believe more in our future self that is calling us to better greatness. And if you believe that and if you actually act on it, it will come true. I promise you. I am living it. And so I don't want us to be afraid.

[A]

That's so powerful. So powerful. Thank you, Boaz. My final question, I ask for every episode of Naked Beauty. When do you feel most beautiful?

[B]

Oh, when do I feel most beautiful? Oh, gosh, it's such a. It's a beautiful question because I still feel like the 14 year old who looks in the mirror and is just like, man, you're fly. You know, I do. I look at myself in the mirror and even Jennifer Tilly, who's one of my castmates, says the wibbly wobbly bits of her body. You know, she's always talking about that. And I look at some of the wibbly wobbly bits. I look at some of the.

[A]

You don't have many wibbly wobbly bits?

[B]

I don't have many, but they are there. Or, you know, the lines that have appeared over time.

[A]

Don't really see those either.

[B]

Well, they're there, but I look at all of that and I think, I'm so dope. You know. I really do. And so I feel most beautiful when I look in the mirror.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So incredible. Thank you so, so much for gracing us with all of your wisdom, your life story. You've been incredibly vulnerable, and I'm so grateful. I'm like, round of applause.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you for having me clap for us. Thank you, Brooke. You're the best.

[A]

So great. Today's episode of Naked Beauty at Essence's Black Women in Hollywood is made possible by Smart Water. Smart water has this pure, crisp taste that instantly feels like a reset. It's vapor distilled with electrolytes added for taste. Simple hydration that helps you stay clear and refreshed without overthinking it. From the purity of the water to the sleek can, every detail of Smart water feels intentional. Visit drinksmartwater.com to learn more.

[B]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend

[A]

this

[B]

season on the Dream.

[A]

Supplies are being provided by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers, but the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items.

[B]

We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy. The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes.

[A]

So you can never stop working.

[B]

The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly. Starting Monday, January 20th, Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.