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- [00:00]
Nikki Okunaki
Foreign.
- [00:08]
Brooke Devard
Hello, hello, this is Brooke Devard and you're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. I'm recording this at the first month of June. Summer is here. I'm like ready to shop and buy all new things, which is why it was so perfectly timed that I got to speak to my guest, Nikki Okunaki. Before we get into the conversation, I just want to tell you a little bit about her because I have known her and admired her for so long. Just watching her career in fashion over these past few years has been incredible. Nikki is a seasoned editor and writer, currently serving as the editor in chief of Marie Claire. Nikki has a ton of experience in the editorial world. She worked as a style editor at Glamour before becoming a fashion editor at Elle, where she eventually worked her way up to style director. Prior to becoming the editor in chief of Marie Claire, Nikki was a deputy fashion director at GQ and and digital director at Harper's Bazaar. So she has worked all across the fashion industry and she has so many great insights about that experience to share with us today on the podcast. Nikki is a force in the industry and a fashion and beauty icon herself. So we had such a great conversation and one of the things that we talk about, it was so fun reflecting on this with her is just the experience of learning how to shop. I have realized that I am the shopper that I am today because of my mother and because of my grandmother and, and the hours that I've logged over the years from being a young, young girl shopping. We would spend entire weekends shopping. We would go to outlet malls. I mean, I just grew up shopping. I don't know, maybe that's weird. Kids were at the playground. I was always shopping. I was always shopping. I can remember going up and down Madison with my mom to her different boutiques. She had Karen that she worked with at Dolce and Gabbana. She had someone at Donna Karen. We would literally go down the shops and she would try on and she would talk to them and she would always make sure she knew when the sale was coming because there would be things that would come in full price, but she would make sure that she got them on sale, which is something that I have learned how to do. There is such a joy and art to shopping and cultivating your personal style. And I've realized now as an adult, as a 35 year old woman, how lucky I am that I got this education in shopping from my mother, Geri Devard, who is a deep shopper, but she learned how to shop from, from her mother, my grandmother Jean Devard. If you haven't heard the episode of Naked Beauty where I interview both my mom and my grandmother, we spend a lot of time talking about clothing and fashion and shopping. We have to do another one of those. There's another family member that I want to interview as well. It's June 2nd today. My grandfather just turned 102 years old. So while it may not be the most beauty focused conversation, I just feel like he's had such an incredible life and I would love to have him on the podcast to talk about his life experience. And yeah, I think that would just be incredible. So if that's something that you guys would be interested in, let me know. Send me a dm. You all are in for a real treat with Nikki. Let's get into the episode. Okay, Nikki, welcome to Naked Beauty. I'm so happy we could finally do this.
- [03:08]
Nikki Okunaki
Me too. It's been many years in the making. Thank you for having me.
- [03:11]
Brooke Devard
Many years in the making. And now you're a podcaster as well. How are you enjoying hosting the Marie Claire podcast?
- [03:17]
Nikki Okunaki
I love it. Nice Talk has been such a great outlet for me. You know, the higher you get sort of in your career, like more management takes over. So hosting Nice Talk feels like a return to what I like to do most, which is like, ask people questions and get paid to be a little nosy.
- [03:34]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Well, you are the editor in chief of Marie Claire. We've all seen Devil Wears Prada and we all know it's one of those jobs. What does Miranda Priestley say? A million girls would kill for this job. Would they still?
- [03:46]
Nikki Okunaki
I don't know. We'd have to ask your followers. You tell me.
- [03:48]
Brooke Devard
No, I think. I think so. I mean, it is sometimes when you're in it, it can feel you can get jaded. But I see you at Milan Fashion Week at all of the events, at all of the shows. You get to live a very fab life. I would love to hear being editor in chief. What is the job on paper and what do you see your job as?
- [04:05]
Nikki Okunaki
That's a really good question. The job on paper, honestly, is not far from what you would read in, like, Tina Brown's Vanity Fair Diaries or the Devil Wears Prada or Graydon Carter's Memo. Those books. Like, it really is sort of different from day to day. One minute I could be at Milan Fashion Week. The next minute I could be at a power moms dinner that we're throwing in New York City. It's a lot of sort of being the face of the brand. But I think that in this day and age, the face of the brand can look very many different ways. So, you know, I host a podcast, as we mentioned. I have a shopping newsletter that I write every week, still assign stories. I work with the editors on my team to make sure we have great, fresh columns up and running.
- [04:50]
Brooke Devard
Can I ask you a nosy question about the newsletter that you write?
- [04:53]
Nikki Okunaki
Totally.
- [04:54]
Brooke Devard
There are links, obviously. People click the links and buy the products. Does that revenue go to you or to the magazine?
- [04:59]
Nikki Okunaki
No, that goes to the brand.
- [05:01]
Brooke Devard
Ah, okay.
- [05:02]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [05:02]
Brooke Devard
That makes sense. Yeah.
- [05:03]
Nikki Okunaki
I'm writing it on behalf of the brand and I really started to. I wanted to write the newsletter specifically because I felt like it's a great outlet. And I think it. It operates differently than, like, if I had a column on the website. You know, I don't think that as I think I know that the engaged audience for shopping is through newsletter. So that was just my way of. Of getting more people to Marie Claire and sort of shopping the great edits that we all have.
- [05:31]
Brooke Devard
Yes. What's something about editor in chief that you think people don't realize from the outside looking in that's interesting?
- [05:38]
Nikki Okunaki
Outside looking in is really just how much work it takes. I think that this looks like a fab job. It is a fabulous job. There's no denying that. But it's a job at the end of the day, and it's a lot of work. So lots of late nights, lots of taking, lots of management is something that I've learned over the last two years. So hiring a team of. At this point, I've probably hired 10 people, 10 new people to Marie Claire. So going through applications, all of that stuff, the management is a key part that I think people underestimate, but has been a bit of a learning curve for me. But I think that, you know, it's nice when you see people sort of rise through the ranks because of your coaching. Yes, with the help of your coaching. I should say with the help of.
- [06:21]
Brooke Devard
Your coaching, I'm sure you're a great manager and you've been in it for a long time. You know, you were at gq. I mean, you've been in this world for a long time. Harper's Bazaar, gq. The industry has changed quite a bit. I interned at Vogue in 2009, 2010. Very different culture. People were yelling. It was not a safe space. It was not a safe space. And to this day, any.
- [06:46]
Nikki Okunaki
Were you the only black girl there?
- [06:47]
Brooke Devard
No, there was Alexa Rice. Was there Yetunde There were. There were two other black girls, and I had the privilege of interning under Andre Leon Talley, who would, like, swan in and out of the office. So it was just. It was. It was all fab. But any. And even after leaving, I respond to everything within, like, five. Like, I don't wait to respond to things. I don't. If I ever have a manager who asks me to do something and I can't figure it out, I don't tell them I can't figure it out. I figure it out and go back. Like, all of that has been ingrained in me. And sometimes I think it's good, sometimes I think it's bad. Because as you work with especially. Let's talk about it. Gen Z, they have a very different approach to work.
- [07:25]
Nikki Okunaki
Gen Z does have a very different approach to work. But I have to say that the Gen Zers on my team, they teach me every day. They teach me through their boundaries, they teach me through their excitement. They teach me through the ways that they think about stories, how they find stories. It's interesting being a millennial manager, I will say, because you see what the people before you have done, right? And you're like, nah, I could take a little bit of that. I could take a little bit of this. Then you see what Gen Zers are doing, and you're like, oh, I could take a little bit of this. I could take a little bit of that. And then you land firmly in the middle as a millennial. So there is a lot of learning from both Gen Xers, Boomers and Gen Zers that I try to incorporate in my management every day. But, yeah, Gen Z definitely has a very different way of working. Yes. That's, like, inspiring and also makes me.
- [08:18]
Brooke Devard
Wonder sometimes, you know, what the boundaries are. They're just a thing that didn't exist for us, Right? Like, there were no boundaries. So the establishing of boundaries, I commend and applaud, but it's definitely different than. Than what we went through. I want to talk about growing up. I know you're Nigerian American, so I want to hear kind of what you learned about beauty and style from the women around you growing up.
- [08:42]
Nikki Okunaki
That's such a great question. My mom was into beauty to an extent. Like, she had a very natural sort of way about her when it came to makeup, but she was always very into powder. So, like, having a shiny nose was, like, not okay. So it was very much like, powder your nose, wipe your nose, like that sort of thing. Lipstick was key in the house, but it's funny. I think the most I learned about beauty actually came from my sister, Lola Okunaki, who's also in the media industry and her roommate in college. And when they. After college, when they moved to New York, which is Tia Williams, who's an incredible author right now, they went to school together. Tia was such a beauty girl in college when they were both at University of Virginia. So that's when I learned about, like, spice lip liner and, like, Mac makeup and all the different lip glosses, lip glasses, I should say. So just. Lola and I are 10 years apart, so watching her go through, like, her sort of makeup journey in the 90s when there was such amazing makeup for black women was incredible because I feel like I just learned from. From some of the best in the business. They were like, natural mentors.
- [09:50]
Brooke Devard
Yes. And you mentioned your sister. I've met your sister. She's very fab. I'm always so interested when there are siblings that are both fabulous and doing the same thing and have a sense of style and beauty that must have been nurtured in your household growing up.
- [10:02]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, I think so. Presentation and style, you ask any Nigerian person. That is very much a part of the culture. We take pride in it. And so growing up, you know, both of my parents worked in retail, so they wore a uniform during the week. But on the weekends, when we were going to church, especially on Sundays, it was always like, put on your Sunday best, get ready, iron the clothes. Like, we are. We are stepping out, and we're like, showing up as a family in church.
- [10:25]
Brooke Devard
Yes. You mentioned retail. I want to talk about shopping for a moment. You. You were on Liv Perez's podcast, and you, you introduced the term shoppies that now all of us are using to talk about that feeling you get when you. The weather starts to change and you just need to shop.
- [10:40]
Nikki Okunaki
That is so funny. I, you know, when I said that I had the shoppies and Liv stopped me, I was like, yeah, I have the shoppies. Like, doesn't everyone say the shoppies? And. And I had no clue that it was going to go this viral, but I do think it. It captures that sort of, like, indescribable emotion or urge you have to shop. And I, it, when it hits, you know, it hits. It's not like, oh, I want to go shopping. It's like, it's an insatiable hunger to go shopping. And then it passes. It's like a wave that sort of passes over you. I'm still, you know, I'm returning things that I, That I bought in my fit of shoppies. But you know. You know, when you. When that hits you, it's a. It's real.
- [11:18]
Brooke Devard
Yes. And I follow you on Instagram, so I've seen you shop. I can remember you shopping. I think you were at the Gucci store. Was it Prada? You were shopping for loafers. You were taking us to the options. I have gone shopping with you on stories. I am someone that loves to shop. But what I've realized as an adult is not everyone knows how to shop. I've shopped with friends, and they're like, I don't even know where to start. And it's because I've shopped with my mother and my grandmother from a very young age, and I've learned how to touch the fabric to see where things are on sale. That's the first thing I do. Okay, where are the sale items? How did you learn how to shop?
- [11:49]
Nikki Okunaki
We were shoppers. My parents, my mom and I bonded over shopping, bonding. My mom very into gold jewelry. And that has clearly trickled down to the way that I approach jewelry. My family very big into fabrics. And it's not like we had a ton of money growing up. Like, we would be at TJ Maxx and at Marshalls, but we were, like, looking for the polo and feeling the polo and knowing that that is the stuff that, like, lasted the longest. Or when we went outlet shopping, we were at Nautica, we were at Tommy Hilfiger. Like, we were outlet shopping. You know, we were outlet shopping.
- [12:19]
Brooke Devard
Entire days spent outlet shopping, 1,000%.
- [12:22]
Nikki Okunaki
And so that was a lot of where bonding happened between my father and I. My mom and I, we would go as a family. And, you know, when Lola moved to New York, we would go thrift shopping together when I came up to intern here. And so she had friends that worked in the industry, and she would tell me the places to go. So I was at, like, Ina, you know, trying to get my little pieces.
- [12:44]
Brooke Devard
And, like, still around.
- [12:45]
Nikki Okunaki
That Cana's definitely still around. Yep.
- [12:47]
Brooke Devard
Love to hear it.
- [12:48]
Nikki Okunaki
Ina is still around. I was at Housing Works. And, you know, from then on, like, when you don't have a ton of money, I think that is when you develop your personal style or you develop your. Your sort of strategy for shopping. And that has just sort of been my story, like, growing up over the years.
- [13:05]
Brooke Devard
Yes. I think when there's a gap in what you want to wear and what your bank account is, that's when you.
- [13:10]
Nikki Okunaki
Have to get creative 100%. Like, there was a lot of like, Charlotte Russ shopping. When I was younger, there was a lot of. What was it? 5, 7, 9, like, contemporary casuals, that sort of shopping. Because I wasn't, like, dripping in designer, you know.
- [13:27]
Brooke Devard
Right, right. But even your mom taking you shopping, I'm sure she taught you the difference between 14 karat gold and 18 karat.
- [13:32]
Nikki Okunaki
And 24 karat gold and wools and polyesters. And I just remember her having, like, boxes and boxes of Delmen flats. Delmen shoes.
- [13:41]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [13:42]
Nikki Okunaki
In the house. So, like, knowing that, you know, you invest in your clothing and then, like, you know, a lot of Nigerian culture is also, like, getting fabric and having things made. And so that's, you know, that's. That is the real sort of, like, fit to measure. The gala's are beautiful. That's where, like, my love of color comes from. That's all that I saw all of that growing up.
- [14:03]
Brooke Devard
Yes. And I hope, you know, online shopping is so popular now. I love to shop in person, but I just think so much of there's, like, this generational information that you lose if you just go online shopping 1,000%.
- [14:15]
Nikki Okunaki
Like, how, you know, I can look at a fabric and say, like, is that. Is that, like, polyester? That's fine. And I can figure it out. And that polyester will last. Or is that, you know, wool? And that wool will last. Like, I have had pieces from H and M for 10, 15 years. If you know how to shop, you can find stuff.
- [14:32]
Brooke Devard
So true. And then there's also knowing what to do in the fitting room. Right. Like, I remember I can be with my mom. Okay, turn around, sit down. Like, knowing.
- [14:40]
Nikki Okunaki
Do a jump.
- [14:42]
Brooke Devard
Right. I feel like we all have memories of our parents making us, like, walk back and forth, like in Payless shoes or whatever. Shoe store.
- [14:47]
Nikki Okunaki
Absolutely.
- [14:48]
Brooke Devard
Get off the carpet.
- [14:49]
Nikki Okunaki
Like, get off the carpet. Figure out what it feels on a hardwood floor or a linoleum floor as opposed to a carpet floor. 1,000%.
- [14:57]
Brooke Devard
So it's summer. Summer's approaching. What are the things that you are investing in from a shopping perspective? Like, what are the pieces? Because I feel like you. You. You probably have your capsule wardrobe. I know you've got your classic pieces. You don't really need anything. But what are the things that you're using to update the looks?
- [15:12]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, I like an update. I really love what's going on at Polo right now. I think Polo, Ralph Lauren is really killing it. I've always had a bit of a preppy, Americana sort of touch to my. To my wardrobe. And so I've been looking a lot at polo. I always.
- [15:26]
Brooke Devard
What do you like from? What do you like from. Because I feel I used to work there and they've done so much to make Polo Ralph Lauren cool.
- [15:32]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah.
- [15:32]
Brooke Devard
But everything is just so classic. What, what pieces are you looking for there?
- [15:36]
Nikki Okunaki
That's. Yeah, everything is really classic and I think that that's what, what I gravitate towards. So I was just looking at their linen pieces. They have like really great linen shirts. But it's the sort of thing I would wear with like a basketball short and like a, you know, a sneaker or a basketball short and a wedge sandal or something. For me it's much more about like how you style the pieces than like what the actual pieces are. So lots of Polo, Ralph Lauren. I'm always looking at what is going on with Dries Van Noten. I love Dries. It's so good. Always has been good. I think that, you know, even though Dries himself is not designing anymore, it still sort of has that, that element. Like he's still very much so a part of the house. You can feel it. So I'm looking forward to seeing more from him. We're in an interesting time now though in fashion. Like the, you know, there are like what, 10 new debuts or something like that for creative directors right now.
- [16:26]
Brooke Devard
So insane.
- [16:27]
Nikki Okunaki
It is crazy. Like, get me off of this chairs. Exactly. So I'm ready for that to be done. I'm ready for all of those people to have their collections out so we can see what, like what the new Celine looks like, what the new Dior was just announced today, what that looks like, what the new Balenciaga looks like. Gucci, Valentino, all of that stuff. Like it's, it's going to be a really fun time I think in fashion over the next few years.
- [16:49]
Brooke Devard
I agree Dior has needed a shake up for a while. And just look at, look at what he did with Loewe. So like Dior is going to be amazing. Now in terms of figuring out your personal style, that's something that people struggle with. We heard kind of how you came to it. How do you recommend people start to think about developing a unique sense of style?
- [17:09]
Nikki Okunaki
It's so funny. I went viral unexpectedly again for this when I was talking to the guys who do Throwing fits, you know that podcast, of course. So I was talking to them about or yes, I was talking to them. They asked me what I was done with fashion, what I was over and I was like, frankly, I'm over the sort of like Discourse about personal style. I'm over the, like, going on, you know, TikTok, seeing any sort of personal style that you can try on and like choosing one and saying, that's who I'm going to be today. Like the chorus, right. I'm done with that. I really believe in having a lived experience. Figuring out what your day to day looks like through time, over time, and then finding those pieces that work for you. So if you live in LA and you drive a car and you are just like, you know, going from your desk to the car, then yeah, you can wear all sorts of high heels, that is great for you. But if you are like me who's running around, taking the train places, leaving the house at 8am, coming back at 10pm, then like, yeah, you may need some flats or some sneakers in the mix. But I wouldn't know that had I not made the mistake of wearing heels and teetering through meatpacking district and almost like rolling my ankle time after time. Like we had to invest in some really good flats. So I always say it comes from lived experience. The other thing that's really great about living in New York is there's such great people watching and nobody like just sits outside on a bench anymore. I used to do that when I lived on the Lower east side. We'd sit outside on the bench outside of the American Apparel, see who was walking by and adopt some of that, like, take in the world around you, get off your phone, Take in the world around you and develop your personal style from there.
- [18:44]
Brooke Devard
It really is a feast for the senses. Living in New York, being in New York. And even earlier when you said you would pair that with basketball shorts and wedges, that kind of blew my mind a little because I wouldn't, I wouldn't think to pair those two things together. But that's you and your unique kind of like flavor. I love Polo and Ralph Lauren because I grew up wearing a uniform. So like a collared shirt always speaks to me. A button down collared shirt is like always going to feel like home to me. But that's because of my lived experience in general. What you're saying about people putting down the phone and living life is so, so major. I saw this TikTok that it was really sad. It was a woman who helps young kids write personal essays for college. And she said one of the questions is, what's the last piece of great art that impacted you? She said so many high school students could not name a piece of great art that impacted them.
- [19:29]
Nikki Okunaki
Wow.
- [19:29]
Brooke Devard
And that made Me so sad because it's like, yeah, your TikTok's right there. You can just scroll, but nothing is. Nothing impacts you. Nothing moves you. When you were growing up, was that, was there a film or were there magazines or were there, were there pieces of media that you consumed when you were young that really moved you?
- [19:44]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah. I posted the other day a meme that was like, we still talk about you. And it was teen people. I was such a teen people girl. I loved teen people, but I also loved like Honey and Essence and Suede and Suede restaurant.
- [19:59]
Brooke Devard
Suede. Suede. It was such a specific moment in media. Black, very high end, beautiful fashion magazine. How many issues did they do? 8.
- [20:09]
Nikki Okunaki
I can't. I don't even know. It was, it was tiny. It was like a. Definitely a short run. It felt very much like of the. The time period when, you know, it was like Lovin Basketball and Brown Sugar and like those types of movies and Suede really spoke to that moment in time. I think Vibe in the early 2000s was like a visual feast. As you said, a feast for the eyes. So, yeah, I was definitely a magazine girl through and through. And then growing up, like right outside of Washington D.C. we had all of the museums there, so the Smithsonian was in my backyard and so I got to go to those art museums, galleries, like all the time.
- [20:52]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Yeah. I mean, going to museums is so underrated. Every time you go, you're like, wow, this is available to me at all times. I should do this more often.
- [21:01]
Nikki Okunaki
Exactly.
- [21:01]
Brooke Devard
Now, did you always gravitate towards storytelling as a kid? Were you a gifted writer?
- [21:06]
Nikki Okunaki
I. I did, yeah. I. I wasn't sure that I was going to work in magazines. I didn't, frankly, I didn't know that these jobs were available. Like, I knew editor in chief. Right. But I didn't know the ways to get there and I definitely didn't know that. Well, like a style editor or a style director for a website did not exist when I was a kid. So. But I always like worked in or I always like wrote school papers and I wrote an op ed for the newspaper and like, you know, had friends on yearbook. So I was sort of in that mix all the time. Was definitely very like, you know, read a lot and worked on like English papers and that sort of thing. So like writing and reading is always a part of what was around me. My parents, I told one of my friends recently that my parents would make us watch 60 Minutes with them every Sunday. They started cracking up. But like 60 Minutes was a huge Part of my house. I remember my dad reading the newspapers on Sunday mornings. Media was just always around us, so I knew that I would get into it or it's no wonder that I'm in this position right now. Right. I didn't know the pathway here, but it's not surprising that I am here.
- [22:12]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Are there stories that you've written that you feel like you're. You're incredibly proud of or looking back, were highlights for you?
- [22:18]
Nikki Okunaki
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, talking to Gabrielle Union for a motherhood issue for Marie Claire's motherhood issue was definitely a really huge highlight. We have sort of like orbited each other for a while. But getting to really sit down with her for, you know, an hour and have a conversation, sort of like the one we're having right now, and ask her about motherhood and have her be so candid is definitely a highlight for me. I think just over the last two years, what we've been able to do at Marie Claire has been a highlight for me. Like, there's no way you could have told me 10 years ago that I would be in this position. And so just watching it all to come to fruition now has been really, just really such a. Like a special moment for me.
- [22:55]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. So I'm sure it feels great. You have so many highly visible events as part of your role. Are you an outfit planner? How do you prepare for these big moments?
- [23:05]
Nikki Okunaki
I am a. I'm not an outfit planner, but I'm the type of person that likes to collect sort of like pieces and have them on hand.
- [23:13]
Brooke Devard
So where you need them though, right before. Yes, Very key. Buy the piece. If you find an incredible gown and you have nothing to go to, buy it anyway, the event will come always.
- [23:23]
Nikki Okunaki
Before you need it. I hate being a last minute shopper. It never works out. I always end up returning those pieces and like relying on something that's already in my closet. I need to see things repeatedly or have time to build outfits with them before I sort of like have to go on stage. So we just did Power Play in Atlanta and I had wore a pair of Christopher John Rogers pants that I had like wanted for seasons and seasons. So I bit the bullet on that and got them.
- [23:50]
Brooke Devard
But then I was wearing ones that. The cargo.
- [23:52]
Nikki Okunaki
The cargos, yeah.
- [23:53]
Brooke Devard
I've been wanting those for, so. So you just bought like, you just.
- [23:56]
Nikki Okunaki
They're on sale. They're on sale on Net A Porte.
- [23:59]
Brooke Devard
Okay, let me go to Net A Porter after this. I have a Christopher John Rogers tab on the RealReal. And I've been like, just wait. And those pants have not hit the real real.
- [24:08]
Nikki Okunaki
Okay. No, I know. So that's the thing. I think that again, it sort of goes back to spending time with clothing or just like knowing brands that you like. So yeah, like you have a Christopher John Rogers tab. I have a Dre Van Noten tab. I have just things I've been keeping my eye on. So then when I need them or when I know that an event is on the horizon, then I'm like, okay, now I can get it.
- [24:31]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Another tip I have like that I will try on clothes when they're still full price. Like, no, you know, we know everything goes on sale eventually. So I'll go into Neiman's. I'll try. Okay. I love this Marnie dress. I love this Liah dress. And then when the markdowns happen, then I'm like, okay, I've already tried it on. Even if it's final sale, I know I can still buy it with confidence. Yes.
- [24:51]
Nikki Okunaki
And that's the thing I think about stores that I've. That is funny. Like going back into stores post Covid, I've had to remind myself, like, that is the point of shopping. Like, the people there, they get paid whether you buy something or not. Like, try stuff on, help them pass the time, have fun with your sales associates. Like, they will be there whether or not. So like, make it worth their while.
- [25:13]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Are there any stores that you think have a really great retail experience? New York, Louisiana, Paris, anywhere?
- [25:18]
Nikki Okunaki
Oh, I mean, shopping in Paris though, it takes a very long time and it is a long and drawn out experience. It is unlike any other. Like when you go into that Chanel store on Rukambon and as one does.
- [25:32]
Brooke Devard
You say, you say it as one.
- [25:34]
Nikki Okunaki
Does, let's manifest it for everyone. When you go into that store on Rukambone and you sit down and you try on those shoes and you ask to try on those bags and they say, do you want a macaron or do you want some champagne? Like, that's such a beautiful experience that like just does not happen often in the States. So if you are going to Paris, make time to do your luxury shopping. It really is like such a great experience. But ultimately, like, nothing for me sort of matches what Barney's used to be. I really miss it and I haven't found anything that, that scratches that itch.
- [26:12]
Brooke Devard
There's. There will never. And specifically the one on 59th in Madison, there will never be anything quite like it. I also miss Jeffries.
- [26:20]
Nikki Okunaki
I loved Jeffries. I was a big, big Jeffries girl. And it was such a, you know, it was just like that one floor and it just felt shopping there like you really did know your sales associates. And the shoe sale was always the best.
- [26:35]
Brooke Devard
The best. And you would see things there that you didn't see anywhere else. Right. Like, the buy was very different. It was almost like a showroom. Right. Like, okay, let's just see what the best of what fashion has here.
- [26:44]
Nikki Okunaki
1,000%.
- [26:45]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. And so do you believe in buying luxury when you're abroad? Like, so when you go to Paris, is that the time to buy the Chanel bag because of the taxes?
- [26:54]
Nikki Okunaki
Yes. 1,000%. Yeah. I buy luxury generally when I'm abroad. Most of the time it's cheaper there just by way of it, like being from that country. So, like, if you get Prada in Milan, it will be cheaper and then you will get your tax back.
- [27:08]
Brooke Devard
Yeah.
- [27:08]
Nikki Okunaki
So always wait.
- [27:09]
Brooke Devard
And which. What do you think is worth investing in from like a luxury bag standpoint? I am not really a bag girl. I have the Bottega hot bag just because I'm a mom and I just need a huge bag, throw all of my stuff in. I probably wear that like every day. I'm not. I don't have a whole bag wardrobe. You know, the girls have like these walk in closets with like every color bag and, you know, they've got their Kelly for lunch and they just have a lot.
- [27:33]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:33]
Brooke Devard
What. What designer bags have you invested in and why?
- [27:38]
Nikki Okunaki
Okay, this is going to sound really bougie.
- [27:40]
Brooke Devard
I.
- [27:40]
Nikki Okunaki
Okay. Hermes bags that are not Perkins and are not Kelly's, all things considered, can come in at like $5,000. Right. So if you're buying something that's not a Kelly or not a Birkin, you can have a slice of Hermes. The Caroline or I have. It's an older style, but it's called the Togo Kelly. Oh, so Kelly. It's the so Kelly. That bag I think I got. Yeah. Like back in the day, I think that bag was maybe like 5,000 or you can get a Picotin for like 4,000. So you can get a slice of Hermes and it's not going to. It's the same as like a Bottega or. I mean, it's cheaper than a Chanel 2.55. So I would say, like, go into Hermes and find the other styles other than the Birkin or the Kelly, because there's a lot to offer. People just don't talk about it really. But there are a lot of great bags there for under like 6.
- [28:31]
Brooke Devard
And now let's talk about going into Hermes the first time, because that's a. People are very intimidated. Rightfully so. There, there is an or there's this kind of like aura of intimidation around luxury in retail. So what was that first experience like for you?
- [28:46]
Nikki Okunaki
You realize when you go into these stores and you see the way that people are shopping, sometimes it just feels like supermarket sweep. And then you realize that it's just product. Like it's extremely well made product. Expensive. Yes. But there is sort of a demystification that happens when you step into these stores and it's like, oh, okay, like, cool. I too can get a glass of champagne while I look at these bags. Like that's what that girl is over there and over there in the corner is doing. So like, why don't I deserve that experience as well?
- [29:20]
Brooke Devard
Right, right. And also, I also want people to know you're allowed to look and not buy. I think a lot of people feel like I can't go into a store because I'm not ready to buy anything yet. It's okay to look and spend your time and ask the questions and feel and you know, have the experience. You don't have to buy something then and there.
- [29:37]
Nikki Okunaki
Of course, people go in time and time again. And then when you finally, you know, when you finally make that purchase, then that's such a. That's such a thrilling moment.
- [29:45]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Yes. Okay, so you're. So we're buying Hermes, Not. Not the Kelly or not the Birkin. What. What are the other bags that you believe are worth investing in?
- [29:53]
Nikki Okunaki
What other bags am I loving right now? I do. I like the Chanel 22. It's sort of like a hobo bag. That bag holds everything. It's. I've found it actually to be a really great laptop bag unexpectedly. What? I have to go to work. No, it's kidding. But listen, I'll carry the laptop in that. But then I'll carry a laptop in like my L.L. bean tote. Like I love my L.L. bean boat and toad.
- [30:14]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [30:15]
Nikki Okunaki
It's such a great mix. I'm a huge, high, low girly. Like there. If there's something to know about me, it's like I will be in a fabletic short and a Chanel bag. Like, I don't. There's no, like all luxury. I don't. I just don't think that's practical. I don't think that's any way really to shop. But then I also Think that, you know, when people sort of divest themselves from putting all of this, I don't even know, like, emphasis or lore on luxury. Like, yes, these products are expensive and yes, you should invest to the best of your ability, but they are just a product at the end of the day. So, like, don't go into bankruptcy over it. Like, buy to the best of your ability, you know?
- [30:55]
Brooke Devard
Absolutely. And I think the Kelly and the Birkin, they've become so popular. It's been so interesting to see with, like, the rise of TikTok, how these bags who've been. That have been around for forever have become so popular. But that can't be everyone's truly ideal bag. Right. Like, no, it's programming. Like, you've been programmed to assist. Aspire to that bag.
- [31:15]
Nikki Okunaki
Right. But I think that there are bags that are just, you know, there are bags that are. Are really, really great at much lower price points. So you look at something that Pauline is making, which is this brand out of Paris that is incredible. Or Mansur Gavriel, who makes bags in New York, like. Or liftner. These. There are bags under $1,000. We have a ton of stories actually on, like, luxury bags under $1,000 on Marie Claire because we know and realize that, like, luxury isn't for everyone, whether you can buy it or not. Like, you may not want to spend your money on that. You may rather spend your money on travel and that's great. Or food or something else.
- [31:52]
Brooke Devard
Absolutely. What do we think of the new alias shoulder bag? That's the bag that I've been eyeing and I'm like, do I need this or is it going to be a blip? I don't.
- [31:59]
Nikki Okunaki
You know, I think that I really respect people who get the thing knowing that. Yeah. Get the thing that they like. So, like, yeah, get your rockstead or your. Those, like, studded flats. Those alive flats. They were huge last two seasons, but if you're still wearing them this season and you like them, like, go off, I love that for you.
- [32:17]
Brooke Devard
Right, Right. Get the thing. I. I feel like when I invest in something, I want it to be a timeless thing that I can wear for forever and ever. But those first Mew Mew ballet flats with the ribbon around, I have those from. When did Those come out? 2016. I still wear them and people are like, oh, are those. I'm like, I think they've. They're so old that they've been reissued, but I still have my original ones because I love.
- [32:39]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah. And I think that a lot of people when we talk about timeless, timeless often equates to boring. But, like, that doesn't have to be the case. Like, timeless for. You can be a mew mew ballet flat that, like, laces up your ankles. That's not timeless for somebody else, but that works for you, and that works for your style. And so you really have to be considerate of what your personal style is and what you think will work in your closet over the next couple of years, you know?
- [33:04]
Brooke Devard
Right, right. So, so well said. Now, you said that you are high, low. Are there any. I'm like putting low in parentheses, but less expensive staples that you feel like you can return to over and over again. Like Levi's jeans or Uniqlo. Like, are there places that you go to for staples?
- [33:23]
Nikki Okunaki
Yes. My favorite T shirt is from Uniqlo. I think it's $14. Maybe it's the Uniqlo U white T shirt. I love that T shirt. I think it's the perfect weight and the perfect cut for my body. I love how it's a little longer, so it doesn't feel like quite like a baby tee on me. And then my favorite jeans are Levi's. Like, I think that all of the new. The reissue of Levi's are really great. You have the wedgie. You have the dad jean. The. It's not the. It is the 501. It's a 501. For women's, there's a 517 and men's that I really love. I think all of Those jeans are $100. Maybe.
- [34:00]
Brooke Devard
Yeah, I need to. I need to revisit Levi's because I just went denim shopping in London and it felt like self harm. It was the worst experience of my life.
- [34:08]
Nikki Okunaki
Denim is so expensive now. It's like 400 for a pair of jeans. And that's just not where I want to spend my money. Other people do and that. It's fine. It's not where I want to spend my money. And so I happily get my jeans from Levi's. Okay.
- [34:23]
Brooke Devard
We're visiting Levi's because, yeah, I tried on a pair of jeans from Alaia. They were a thousand pounds. That's what, 1400 U.S. god, I know. Everything at Alaia is so good.
- [34:32]
Nikki Okunaki
Did you get them?
- [34:33]
Brooke Devard
I did not. I did not. I did not. So we have to talk about the iconic haircut and just the beauty of it all, because not only do you have great style, you have had a signature haircut for as long as I've known you. How did you come to this signature style? And then for people that are just listening, could you explain it? Describe it?
- [34:51]
Nikki Okunaki
Sure. So I. My haircut to start is shaved on all sides and in the back. And then there's a long sort of. I hate to call it a comb over, but somebody has called it a comb over. So fine, it's a bit of a long bob, but just from the top.
- [35:08]
Brooke Devard
I guess you could say it's like a waterfall. It's like a jaw length waterfall of hair.
- [35:13]
Nikki Okunaki
Oh, I love that. Thank you. My hairstyle was inspired by Bings Walton when she had this haircut.
- [35:19]
Brooke Devard
Oh, wow.
- [35:20]
Nikki Okunaki
10 years ago. I want to say I had a pixie at the time or like kind of a pixie. And I wanted to grow it out and I was toying with the idea of going natural. And so that was. This haircut was the way to do it. So I haven't had a relaxer in like probably like 10, 10 years, 12 years maybe. And my hair has. I've found that my hair is thick, but like the curl pattern isn't really hard to straighten. And so it's. It's a pretty low maintenance haircut other than having to go to the barber like to get every. Every three weeks to get it cut on the sides or all around.
- [35:55]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. I mean, it looks so great. And then you just like blow dry the top.
- [35:58]
Nikki Okunaki
Wash. Blow dry the top. I use Kerasas products. They're my favorite. I've used them since I was a kid. Since I got this haircut. Basically my hair is dry. And I think that probably comes. I. I think I drink a lot of water, but probably not. So I use Keras Sas products. And then I use a Briogeo farewell frizz to. Because my hair can get a little frizzy sometimes. Like just New York humidity is like tough on hair, as you know.
- [36:24]
Brooke Devard
And you work out a lot.
- [36:26]
Nikki Okunaki
Yes, and I work out a lot. I'm a runner, so I'm constant. I don't like to put a lot of heat on my hair either. So it's a, it's a negotiation of all of all of those things. But this haircut is actually really easy for runners as opposed to like having a pixie, because I don't have to deal with like all of it sort of like reverting in the back.
- [36:43]
Brooke Devard
You know, it's interesting that a lot of editors are just very highly visible people in fashion have like a signature hair look. Right. Like Anna Wintour without her bob. Like, who is she? Like, if you had like long box braids, I'D be like, this is this Nikki. I don't know.
- [36:58]
Nikki Okunaki
Like, I know it's funny when people. So I've recently returned to braids over the summer and it does feel like a different person. Like, I feel like I'm cosplaying a little bit when I. When I get braids because they're long and they just end up going back up in a ponytail. Like, I'm so used to having my hair off my face now that when I wear or off, like my shoulders. So when I wear braids, I'm like, get. Get all this hair off of me.
- [37:21]
Brooke Devard
It doesn't feel like, you know, you have beautiful skin. What's the skincare routine that's so funny.
- [37:27]
Nikki Okunaki
That you say that? I. I have a pretty low skincare routine. Like, I don't do a ton. I use the face wash is Cetaphil. Honestly, I'm not like, yeah, I'm a drugstore girly when it comes to set to washing my face. Or I had been using Dr. Rosemary Engleton. Her products are really great. I love that. So she had an amazing face wash that I was using. I ran out, so I switched back to Cetaphil. But that's one that I really love.
- [37:55]
Brooke Devard
That's at Sephora. For people listening.
- [37:58]
Nikki Okunaki
Those products are fab. Like, I love them so much. I use her also. I. What is it? It's the future Bright dark spot Vitamin C serum. This has made such a difference in just dealing with, like, dark spots really well. I love that product. At night I use. I'm going to bury. I'm going to butcher this. It's this drunk elephant. A glow glowing. Can you see this? It's like the egg. Chloe retinol oil. Yes.
- [38:24]
Brooke Devard
Okay. It's. So it's a retinol oil.
- [38:26]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, it's a maritime Elephant Maritime Oil. 0.5 retinol. I use this probably once or twice a week. Just like when I'm feeling just sort of my skin's been out of whack or I've been traveling a lot. Just sort. It's like a good reset and then sunscreen again. I use. Or actually, you know what? I also like to use the you Beauty resurfacing compound. I love this product.
- [38:51]
Brooke Devard
So I have it. How do you use it?
- [38:53]
Nikki Okunaki
I use it. No, I use it during the day and then I'll put sunscreen over.
- [38:58]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [38:58]
Nikki Okunaki
This product, hands down, every time I use it, somebody stops me and is like, oh, my God, your skin looks so great. Every single time I use this product. Like, it's incredible. It's really, really great. And then sunscreen. So my face sunscreen is Eucerin. I use like a Eucerin daily lotion that has SPF 30 sunscreen in it. Or I'm using this also this La Roche posay 50 broad spectrum invisible sunscreen. So it's a pretty like drugstore heavy product. Again, because I spend all my money clothes, it's not, there's not much left for beauty. But I find also that having a pretty low maintenance routine and just making sure that I'm like eating well and taking my vitamins and drinking my water like that does the best for my skin.
- [39:41]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. And you mentioned running and sleep. Yes, and you mentioned running. I feel like sweating. I feel like when I'm, when I'm sweating consistently, my skin is the best.
- [39:49]
Nikki Okunaki
Totally you. I like, I just feel the most glowy, the most natural, the most beautiful. Like when I have running incorporated in my routine, it does feel like I'm just like sweating out all of those toxins.
- [40:01]
Brooke Devard
What are your must have running accessories, sneakers items? Gadgets.
- [40:07]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah. So I run in a pretty sort of like hefty shoe. I like a lot of cushioning. So I like The New Balance 1080 or the Nike Vomero 18 just came out. That's. Those are my two shoes that I run in and then bike shorts. I run in Fabletics 6 inch or 8 inch bike short. It does not budge. I have run multiple half marathons in them. They're perfect. Yes. Fabletics, like Kate Hudson's brand, like they're really, really great. And then I usually wear some sort of like Nike dry fit top or I've recently just gone back to wearing like cotton T shirts. I, I, there's something about like not having to wear tech gear all the time that I'm like really into at the moment.
- [40:50]
Brooke Devard
And do you do a sports bra?
- [40:52]
Nikki Okunaki
I do a sports bra. I wear a panache sports bra that I get on Amazon because I'm not really sure where they sell it in stores. It's a really good bra. I have a small cup and a bigger cup size, so it's really good for if you have like big boobs. It's, it's a fantastic sports bra. Like does not budge.
- [41:09]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Now what are, what's your maintenance routine? What are the appointments that are always on your beauty calendar?
- [41:15]
Nikki Okunaki
That's a good question. So I do a medi pedicure. I've started doing medi pedicures when they go in. So that's like no Polish. Just like a buff of the toenail. A real sort of like file situation when it comes to like calluses on your heels.
- [41:31]
Brooke Devard
I've been hearing about these and they're like, people say it's game like that they will never go back to a regular pedicure once they do a medi pedi. So how. So do you do it like through your insurance? Like, how do you find a place to do it?
- [41:41]
Nikki Okunaki
It's just at a med spa. There's like a med spa here in New York that, that I go to and I like.
- [41:47]
Brooke Devard
For our New York listeners.
- [41:48]
Nikki Okunaki
Let me see.
- [41:50]
Brooke Devard
Yeah, people. Because I. Because they, they really do like the hardcore callus removal. You know, like when you go to the regular nail salon and they just have that like small little buffing bar and like.
- [41:59]
Nikki Okunaki
No, that's not it.
- [42:01]
Brooke Devard
Lightly exfoliating thing. You're like, no, I want someone to really go in.
- [42:05]
Nikki Okunaki
Oh yeah, they go in and they do the whole thing. Let me look up the name of this place because it is Medi Pedi nyc. Like now listen, it's not. Because it's not like it's not glamorous and because it's not a. Like just walk into the nail salon off the street. It is a little bit more expensive. But I do this probably. I do it once before summer and I'll do it once after summer. And then a regular pedicure can get me through the rest of the summer. But this is the one that sort of like preps my feet before. Yeah, it's prime time. Yeah. So that's on my calendar. Maintenance haircut is on my calendar. I'm at the barber. Usually twice a week I go to another woman who cuts the.
- [42:45]
Brooke Devard
Sorry. Two times a week.
- [42:46]
Nikki Okunaki
Oh, sorry. No, no, no, sorry. Every two weeks. Every. Every two weeks.
- [42:50]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [42:50]
Nikki Okunaki
And then I go to another hairstylist who does. Who cuts the top of. I call it the top of my hair. So I usually see her probably every three months, I would say, just to make sure that like the style is good. I go to this salon, Prince and Bond in soho. Go to see Dionne. She's incredible. She's the one who gave me this first haircut. So I've. I've stuck with her over the years. So I go to Dion. But other than that, I'm again, I'm pretty low maintenance. There's nothing like that I have to go do.
- [43:21]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Okay. I love it. And you work a high powered job and I'm sure stress comes with that. We're all stressed in different ways for different reasons. But how do you decompress and pour into yourself and have, like, true moments of relaxation?
- [43:34]
Nikki Okunaki
Right. So this is when we talk about maintenance. Like, this is the kind of. This is what I spend my maintenance money on. So I have a trainer. His name is Engo Okafor. He works at a kind of class gym. He owns a kind of class gym. I see him twice a week. Hot yoga with friends. Y7. I go to stretching class on Sundays, generally at the Fit in in Bed Stuy. Now, I'm not gonna be able to get into these classes because they're very hard to get into to begin with. But I love the Fit in. I want to keep it around. It's an amazing black business in Bed Stuy. So I go to stretching class. I go to Pilates once a week. So those are the. That's where my maintenance comes in. And all of that, all of that is like stress relief for me too.
- [44:15]
Brooke Devard
How did you develop this routine?
- [44:17]
Nikki Okunaki
Trial and error. Like, when I was running a lot, I was not. I mean, not in college, definitely not. I played lacrosse. I played lacrosse for two years of high school. But 10 years ago is when I really picked up running. I decided that I wanted to accomplish a goal that had nothing to do with work. And so I ran my first half marathon. And I've sort of. I've come back to running off and on over the last 10 years. I just find that. I find it very therapeutic. I find that, like, I'm my happiest. I always say, when I'm running around in circles with my friends, so I always come back to running. And then from that, you know, as you get older, it's sort of like what complements running. And strength training for me is really it. But then what do you do when you strength train a lot? Then you have to stretch and then you have to, you know, I want to get my core rights. I'm in Pilates. So it all sort of like ladders up to this ultimate goal of, of, you know, sanity and vanity, if you will.
- [45:09]
Brooke Devard
But, but, but you must be very diligent about protecting that time, because I know you probably have so many things competing for your time, but clearly you've said, okay, no matter what happens, I'm doing this training session.
- [45:24]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, I mean, I treat it sort of like not necessarily a job, but I treat it as an important appointment to myself. I've learned that if I don't block off the time, something will inevitably pop up. So what I often do is. So that's why I see a trainer. Right. It's like twice a week, we make that appointment to ourselves. That's also why I make my friends work out with me, because then I can. I can kill two birds with one stone. So we do hot yoga or Pilates or berries, and then we get a coffee afterwards or we go to brunch afterwards. So it makes it sort of more of like a. A less solitary experience for me.
- [45:56]
Brooke Devard
Yes. You mentioned your friends. I would be remiss not to mention all of the iconic Fashion Week pictures over the years of just you and all of the other fabulous black women in the fashion industry. All of the editors, like, storming out of the shows. I love to see that camaraderie. Are you close with a lot of the other black women in these very high powered positions in fashion and beauty?
- [46:18]
Nikki Okunaki
I am. I'm so lucky and so blessed to count, you know, these women as my friends. I don't think that, you know, when I met Shiona, we knew that she would be styling Beyonce. Right. Like, that wasn't. That's. That wasn't what we thought would be happening, but there she is now. And, like, we've known each other at this point. Yeah. For almost 10 years. These women are just. They're. They're great. They're like such great sounding boards. They know the distinct experience of being a black woman in the fashion industry. Have seen the changes over the years of the fashion industry. And so we are sort of a part of this. The sorority, really, within the fashion industry, that is that I would not be where I am without their. Their advice and without their shoulders to. To lean on, to cry on, to commiserate, to laugh with. Like, I'm so thankful for these women.
- [47:12]
Brooke Devard
What are the things that you all get on the phone and say, like, girl, can you believe this happened? Like, what?
- [47:17]
Nikki Okunaki
Cannot reveal any of those things. If our group chat was excited, exposed, we'd be fighting on the Internet. So.
- [47:23]
Brooke Devard
But you know what? I think it's. No matter what industry you're in, if you're listening to this and you're a lawyer or you work in the medical field, I think it is so important to have a group of peers that you can talk to about things like even salary or how to negotiate promotion opportunities or, you know, like to have those sounding boards, I think everyone, I think, is really focused on mentors and mentorship, which I think is beautiful and great. Do you have a mentor?
- [47:47]
Nikki Okunaki
Yeah, I have. Yeah, I have women that I look up to, but I don't have Anyone who I've gone to and said, hey, will you be my mentor? I'm much more focused, and I always give this advice. I think it's more important to be more focused on peer mentorship.
- [48:01]
Brooke Devard
Yeah.
- [48:01]
Nikki Okunaki
Because those are the people, right? Those are the people who will tell you, hey, I think this person is leaving. Would you be interested in this job? Or when I'm hiring, you know, it's like, hey, do you know an assistant who is at this level who would want this job? And it's like, okay, Tiffany or Nicole or. Or whomever. Like, they'll hit me back and say, oh, we've got this girl. Right. And so that sort of peer mentor whisper network, I think, is what's really gotten me to where I am in my career now. There are tons of women who have opened doors for me, but there is a very unique experience of having somebody sort of on your level who understands what you're going through and. And looking to them for mentorship.
- [48:42]
Brooke Devard
Yes. I couldn't agree more. And I also think. Think, you know, I want to say you're. You seem like, to be a very nice person. You've always been very nice and kind to me. And the fashion industry is notoriously not kind. There are kind people, but you can get far in fashion. Let's be honest. Being unkind, like, it's just. It's just a fact. Why has it always been, I don't.
- [49:01]
Nikki Okunaki
Know if you can. I don't know if you can anymore? I will say that I think in the.
- [49:06]
Brooke Devard
I'm thinking of a few people that.
- [49:08]
Nikki Okunaki
Are like, yes, you can.
- [49:09]
Brooke Devard
That are very far along in their career and are not. And they didn't.
- [49:13]
Nikki Okunaki
When did they start working, though? Right.
- [49:15]
Brooke Devard
Because, like, the 90s, 80, like, forever ago.
- [49:17]
Nikki Okunaki
Right. I think that our class, if you will. So people who started working in mid 2000s. I don't know if you can get that far being mean anymore. I think that for better or for worse, like, you'll get dragged on the Internet. Like, yeah. I mean, you know. Right. Like, somebody will teach you one way or another that you have to have respect for people, and they'll either teach you by dragging you on the Internet or, like, you won't get far in your career anymore. So that is something I'm very thankful for. Like, yes, I think that I am a kind person. I wouldn't necessarily say that I am the most. Like, if you see me anywhere, like, my resting bitch face is strong. Right. Like, that is just what my face looks like. If. I mean, if you See any of us, Me, Nicole, Shiona, like, Tiffany, like, that's just what our faces look like. However, there is a warmness and an openness, I think, just because, like, it's. It's just easier to be nice. Like, who mean so boring and, like, obvious.
- [50:19]
Brooke Devard
Right. And you also realize that your career is predicated on relationships. So it's so important to treat people with respect, to build a good reputation 1,000%.
- [50:29]
Nikki Okunaki
Like, you know, I'm sure for you, like, you've been working on Naked Beauty for how long now?
- [50:34]
Brooke Devard
Five years?
- [50:34]
Nikki Okunaki
Eight?
- [50:35]
Brooke Devard
Almost nine years. Almost nine years.
- [50:37]
Nikki Okunaki
Which is crazy. I'm sure you have people banging down your door trying to get on Naked Beauty now that, like, may have snubbed you in the past. And it's like, look at. You know, if you are nice, if you are kind, like, and naturally not, you have to authentically be this way. Right. If you are, then you don't know. You never know where your career could go by, just, like, extending somebody some kindness or some grace.
- [51:00]
Brooke Devard
Now I have to ask you, have you been in. Because you're very kind of unassuming, low profile. Have you gone into a space where someone did not know you were who you were and you were treated in a way that, you know they wouldn't have treated you had they have known? Like, have you had your Julia Roberts.
- [51:15]
Nikki Okunaki
Big mystique, huge fake moment? Oh, man, I don't know. Like, you know, sometimes in Paris, you have to flex on people a little bit at these doors because they just, just don't. They don't know. Always. Right, right. And you walk up to these doors when you're trying to get to shows. It's a huge. It's just like stress, stress, stress, stress all the time. Like, you're late for a show or like somebody's, you know, there's hordes of street style photographers outside. So sometimes when those doors get a little tricky, you have to be like, I'm the editor in chief of Marie Claire. Let me in. But, like, I hate doing that. So embarrassing. But sometimes you have to.
- [51:51]
Brooke Devard
Sometimes you've got to do it. You've got to do it. I want to finish by asking. I'm going to ask you two questions. But I do want to ask for career advice. You've had this incredible career. So many people want to do what you do or work in this industry. What advice do you have for people that are very much on the outside? Maybe they are not in New York City, but want to get into this beauty and fashion space?
- [52:10]
Nikki Okunaki
100%. I've always been very open to anything, most things that'll come my way. So when I was coming up in this industry, print was king. You only wanted to be a market director, you only wanted to be a beauty director for a print magazine. But I saw that my friends who were bloggers were getting opportunities or my friends who were writing for websites, other people would have turned their nose up at them. I've had plenty of people not understand what ELLE.com was or why they had to seat me at a show. But like, look at how important websites are now, right? So like, you just have to be open to, to what the journey can bring you. And I think there are ways to get your voice out without having to depend on a large establishment. So start the substack, post the video, be cringe. Like, embrace that cringe. You know, like there are plenty of people, there's that joke like, you know, you were too busy, like being embarrassed to make TikTok videos in 2020 and now look at you, right? Like, embrace the cringe, do the thing. Like, who cares what other people think about you? Like, I wholeheartedly believe that. And so I say for people who are sort of on the outside wanting to get into this industry, like, start the substack, post those videos, share your opinion.
- [53:26]
Brooke Devard
Yeah, yeah. I mean, so many people, even, even me, I, I started the pod. I didn't work in beauty. I just started the podcast talking to people about beauty because I was interested in it. And now look where we are.
- [53:37]
Nikki Okunaki
Yes. And I think specifically like using yourself as a case, like you, you weren't just interested in it, right? Like, you are an enthusiast, you have a natural curiosity, you're a obsessed with it, right? This is something that you cannot stop thinking about. Like, you have to do something with that passion and you have to embrace that natural curiosity. I think a lot of people still. Well, I wouldn't say a lot of people, but I think sometimes people still expect things to be given to them in a certain way. But like, you just have to realize that there are people out here who are just willing to like, outwork sometimes people. And you, you have to, have to do that hard work.
- [54:13]
Brooke Devard
There's no shortcuts there. The hard work is the, the connecting thread behind all of this, right? You have to work very hard. You can have boundaries. To my, to my Gen Z listeners, you can have boundaries, but I mean.
- [54:25]
Nikki Okunaki
But you had two full jobs basically at once before you, you know, full time job.
- [54:30]
Brooke Devard
I mean, I was literally working at Instagram and Then working on the podcast concurrently in an insane, insane way. And, like, didn't sleep and, like, didn't see my friends for a long time and didn't get to go to the fun, happy hours on the rooftops. And I missed out on a lot of fun stuff. But I knew I was building something that would eventually become successful, so.
- [54:50]
Nikki Okunaki
And that. That wasn't always going to be the case, right?
- [54:52]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [54:52]
Nikki Okunaki
Like, it wasn't always going to be that. You had to work all the time, forever. Like, it's okay to look at these moments as seasons. Yes. And you'll be out of the season and hopefully into something bigger and better when you move on.
- [55:06]
Brooke Devard
Yes. Yes. Final question that I ask all of my guests, which is when do you feel most beautiful?
- [55:12]
Nikki Okunaki
I love this question. I feel most beautiful. I feel most beautiful after a good run. Like, when I'm outside and the weather is beautiful and it is sunny outside and I've just. I'm a little sweaty and a little dewy and just feel, like, very natural, no makeup.
- [55:29]
Brooke Devard
That's.
- [55:30]
Nikki Okunaki
That's the best feeling.
- [55:32]
Brooke Devard
I love it. You're gonna have me running after this episode. I'm like, get into it running. This was great. Thank you so much, Nikki.
- [55:39]
Nikki Okunaki
Thank you.
- [55:40]
Brooke Devard
All right. That was my conversation with Nikki Okanake. She is just a joy and really, just for me, someone that I really admire, someone who works hard, is kind, has a great point of view. I loved what she had to say about personal style and really cultivating a unique sense of style based on your lived experience, experience based on your lifestyle. It's nothing you can really. You can't really get a checklist and figure out how to figure out your personal style. It's something that has to really come from you and what makes you unique. Thank you as always for listening to the podcast, supporting the podcast. Naked Beauty has been growing and it's really thanks to all of you for sharing the podcast on stories as you're listening, telling friends about it, subscribing on Spotify. You know you can leave comments on Spotify too. I check the comments under each episode, so. So if you have thoughts about the episode, always make sure to comment. I love hearing from you all. And of course Naked Beauty is on YouTube. Whenever I can get into the studio to do an interview, we are in the studio so you can watch Naked Beauty as well as listen to it. Make sure that you subscribe to the Naked Beauty Podcast on YouTube. Thank you all so, so much for listening and I will be back next week with a great episode Visit the.
- [56:54]
Nikki Okunaki
Way you love may visit the way you love.
- [57:22]
C
Hey guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. You know I love beauty and that's why I go to Sephora. It's not just shopping, it's like a glam experience. The beauty advisors actually get beauty, unlike those big box stores and they give me all the advice I need. And I love going with the products you can only find at Sephora, like my new favorite Kayali fragrance, my perfect shade of Haus Labs foundation, and finally, restocked my laneige lip mask. All with the help of real experts. Oh, and if you haven't tried day shampoo, go try it. It's a game changer. Sephora isn't just a store. It's the beauty destination.
- [57:56]
Nikki Okunaki
Go.
- [57:57]
C
You'll thank me later.
- [58:00]
Brooke Devard
Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
- [58:04]
Nikki Okunaki
Here's a show that we recommend.
- [58:08]
Brooke Devard
Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where.
- [58:10]
C
We make fun of everything, but most importantly ourselves.
- [58:13]
Brooke Devard
I'm Paige Desorbo.
- [58:14]
C
I'm Hannah Berner.
- [58:16]
Brooke Devard
Welcome to the squad.
- [58:17]
C
Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.
- [58:21]
Brooke Devard
But of course, we can't be managed.
- [58:23]
C
So we decided to start this podcast. To continue giggling.
- [58:26]
Brooke Devard
We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests.
- [58:34]
C
Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [58:39]
Nikki Okunaki
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [58:45]
Brooke Devard
Acest.
- [58:46]
Nikki Okunaki
Com.