Issa Rae on Embracing Your Unique Beauty and Creating Your Own Path

Summary

Naked Beauty Podcast: Issa Rae on Embracing Your Unique Beauty and Creating Your Own Path

Host: Brooke DeVard
Guest: Issa Rae
Release Date: November 18, 2024

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Brooke DeVard welcomes the multifaceted talent Issa Rae to the latest episode of Naked Beauty. Far beyond her acclaimed roles as an actress, writer, and producer, Brooke delves deep into Issa's personal journey with beauty, self-care, and the various influences that have shaped her unique perspective.

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**1. Early Life and Influences on Beauty

Timestamps: [02:15] - [04:06]

Issa Rae reflects on her upbringing across different locales—Los Angeles, Maryland, and Senegal—and how each environment influenced her perception of beauty. She shares a poignant moment from sixth grade when moving back to LA led to a dip in her self-confidence, contrasting sharply with her high school experience in Senegal, where she felt genuinely beautiful and desired.

Issa Rae [02:27]: "I was like, I thought I was the shit and I just didn't get why other people weren't attracted, weren't."

This transition highlights the significant impact of cultural and environmental contexts on self-esteem and beauty standards.

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**2. Stanford University: A Ground for Creativity and Identity

Timestamps: [05:35] - [10:06]

Both Brooke and Issa share their experiences at Stanford University, navigating predominantly white institutions and finding their niche. Issa discusses the challenges of being one of the few black women on campus initially residing in Rinconada, feeling disconnected, and eventually finding her footing through creative pursuits like playwriting and filmmaking.

Issa Rae [06:55]: "I didn't think it was cool, you know. And it wasn't until maybe junior and senior year, when I lived off-campus, that I really started to embrace who I was."

Her early work, including the web series Awkward Black Girl, resonated with many, especially black women at Stanford, laying the foundation for her future successes.

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**3. Hair Evolution: From Burden to Empowerment

Timestamps: [11:08] - [15:03]

Issa opens up about her tumultuous relationship with her hair, navigating societal expectations and personal identity. Growing up, she felt pressured to conform to prevailing beauty standards, often wearing braids or covering her hair to avoid judgment.

Issa Rae [12:09]: "I used to wear a scarf or a hood just because I didn't want to deal with it."

College marked a turning point as she began embracing her natural hair, influenced by friends who showcased their authentic styles. The pivotal moment came when she decided to shave her head in promotion of Awkward Black Girl, symbolizing her liberation from hair expectations.

Issa Rae [13:27]: "I feel like everybody should do a big chop at least once in your life, because it really just frees you of your hair expectations in so many ways."

Her collaboration with hairstylist Felicia, formerly of "Loving Your Hair," further solidified her commitment to using her hair as a canvas for artistic expression on the set of Insecure.

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**4. Aesthetic Appreciation and Visual Storytelling

Timestamps: [15:03] - [17:22]

Issa discusses her appreciation for visual elements in storytelling, drawing inspiration from childhood shows like Roswell and her love for music that complements visual narratives. She credits her ability to collaborate effectively with her team, particularly Melina from styling, for creating the distinctive look of Insecure.

Issa Rae [16:28]: "There was something about that feeling in shows like that where I was like, I want the music has to be right, it has to have a feeling. The lighting has to be great."

This keen sense for aesthetics has been a hallmark of her projects, ensuring that each visual element aligns seamlessly with the story being told.

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**5. Navigating the Music and Film Industries

Timestamps: [17:22] - [19:31]

Issa offers her insights into the challenges artists face in the music and film industries, emphasizing the importance of self-advocacy. She contrasts the often chaotic and exploitative nature of the music industry with the more navigable yet still complex Hollywood landscape.

Issa Rae [18:48]: "The music industry, to me, is harder because at least Hollywood, I've prepped for it and I've watched so much of the process."

She underscores the necessity of collaboration and maintaining an open mind while also asserting her boundaries to ensure her creative visions are respected.

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**6. Business Ventures and Collaboration

Timestamps: [40:29] - [43:36]

Issa details her involvement with Sienna Naturals, a hair care line she began supporting in 2020 after years of personal use and appreciation for the products. She highlights the collaborative process with Hannah, the brand's founder, emphasizing the importance of products tailored to her hair texture.

Issa Rae [41:39]: "I've learned a lot about more hair health than the actual process of making them."

Additionally, Brooke and Issa briefly touch upon Issa's extensive portfolio of business ventures, though it becomes clear that Issa prefers to delegate day-to-day operations to trusted collaborators, allowing her to focus on her strengths.

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**7. Self-Care, Burnout, and Work-Life Balance

Timestamps: [43:18] - [47:32]

The conversation shifts to the pressures of maintaining multiple roles and the inevitable burnout that accompanies such a lifestyle. Issa candidly discusses her coping mechanisms, including dedicating one day a week completely free from work-related activities.

Issa Rae [43:45]: "I've gotten a lot better about taking time off."

She shares her first substantial vacation in January 2021, a deliberate step to disconnect entirely from work, resulting in profound personal rejuvenation.

Issa Rae [45:49]: "When I did that, I just felt so free. And I was so recharged by February."

Issa emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries to preserve her well-being, a sentiment echoed by many striving for balance in high-demand careers.

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**8. Beauty Routines and Personal Preferences

Timestamps: [48:50] - [54:23]

Issa delves into her beauty routines, highlighting her minimalist yet effective approach. Her nighttime skincare regimen is a point of pride, featuring products like hyaluronic serum and Vitamin C, which have significantly improved her skin health.

Issa Rae [28:36]: "I use hyaluronic serum, of course, Vitamin C."

She discusses her selective approach to makeup, preferring a clean and glowy look that enhances her natural features without overshadowing them. Her collaboration with makeup artist Joanna Simkins ensures consistency in her signature style across various appearances.

Nail care is another favorite topic, with Issa favoring long almond shapes and versatile colors that suit any occasion. Her fragrance choices, including scents by Chloe and Rihanna's Fenty, reflect her dynamic personality and preference for intoxicating fragrances.

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**9. Maintaining Privacy in the Public Eye

Timestamps: [35:28] - [37:20]

Despite her prominence, Issa values her privacy deeply. She explains that keeping personal aspects of her life, such as her marriage, private is integral to her self-care and mental well-being.

Issa Rae [35:45]: "There’s no input beyond my family. It’s very personal."

Issa navigates the fine line between public persona and personal life by maintaining boundaries, ensuring that her self-care remains untouched by external pressures and curiosities.

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**10. Final Reflections: Embracing Authenticity

Timestamps: [53:20] - [54:38]

In her concluding remarks, Issa encapsulates her journey towards self-acceptance and authenticity.

Issa Rae [54:23]: "I feel most beautiful when I'm fully myself. When I'm in my element, being myself, surrounded by people and the life that I've curated."

This powerful statement underscores the episode's central theme: embracing one's unique beauty and forging a personal path free from societal constraints.

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Closing Thoughts

Brooke expresses heartfelt gratitude to Issa Rae for the enriching conversation, highlighting the profound insights gained from Issa's experiences and philosophies on beauty and self-care. The episode serves as an inspiring testament to the importance of self-acceptance and the courage to define one’s own standards of beauty.

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Thank you for listening to Naked Beauty. Stay tuned for more unfiltered conversations about beauty trends, self-care journeys, and the wellness tips that empower us all.

Transcript

[Issa Rae]

Mama, I'm a millionaire. But I feel.

[Brooke Devard]

Hello, hello, it's Brooke Devard, and you're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. Today's guest really needs no introduction. It is the one and only Issa Rae. And this interview with her is one unlike I've ever heard before. In preparation for this episode, I poured over every article she's done, every interview she's done, and I realized that a lot of people ask her about her business acumen, her entrepreneurship, of course, her artistry, creating all of these iconic shows like Instagram, Insecure and Rap, all of the movies she's done. But I was like, I really want to understand what Issa's relationship to beauty is, what her relationship to self care is. But I do want to ground the conversation in some of her incredible accomplishments. Issa Rae is an iconic actress, writer, director, producer, and business owner. Issa is a graduate of Stanford University like me, and went on to write a web series published on YouTube called Awkward Black Girl, which got wide attention and acclaim and led to Issa's first show with hbo, Insecure. Insecure was a cultural phenomenon. We can all attest to the fact that we were all hooked and glued on Insecure. It was nominated for three Critics Choice Awards, three Golden Globe Awards, and three Emmy Awards. Insecure was revolutionary for the culture and Issa didn't stop there. She's gone on to found Hooray Media, create two more shows with hbo, star in the Barbie movie President Barbie, and so, so much more. Please join me in welcoming Issa Rae to Naked Beauty. Issa, welcome to Naked Beauty. I'm so excited for this conversation. I've been looking forward to it for a long time.

[Issa Rae]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. I feel like one, the skin is glowing and gorgeous in person, which I had no doubts, but like, your skin is incredible. And I'm also excited to talk to you about beauty and self care because I've consumed a lot of your interviews and like, people always ask you about business and like, what's next? People love to ask you what's next.

[Issa Rae]

Yes, they sure do. And I'm like, anxiety inducing question. It really is.

[Brooke Devard]

And you do so much. So I'm like, how do you take care of yourself? Like, what's your self care routine? So we're gonna get into all of that.

[Issa Rae]

Okay.

[Brooke Devard]

But I wanna start with growing up. You grew up in la, in Maryland, in Senegal. Did you feel beautiful growing up and how did each of those places kind of influence your understanding of Beauty.

[Issa Rae]

Honestly, I grew. I feel like all kids grow up with so much confidence and then it's just taken away from you at a specific age. And I definite. I remember being very boy crazy. And it wasn't until sixth grade moving back to LA from Maryland, where I was like, I just knew. It was summer we moved and I just knew going into sixth grade I was like, ooh, niggas about to be fighting over me. And that was not the case at all. And it was like, I was like, I thought I was the shit and I just didn't get why other people weren't attracted, weren't. And so that was the beginning of, like, my self confidence going away. But I had to find, like, if I didn't feel beautiful, I had to find something else to have as my own. And I didn't really feel like beautiful until I went to Senegal when I was like, in high school. When I turned like 17, we went back to Senegal and it was my first time going back, maybe 16, 17, as a teenager. And it was like seeing other women who, like, look like me, who had my skin tone and, you know, like, feeling desired. And I was just like, oh, I'm in a place that thinks that I'm beautiful, where, like, my what I look like is a beauty standard. And that was just earth shattering. It was like life changing for me.

[Brooke Devard]

Wow. It really shows how much like, the environment you're in shapes your own understanding of your own beauty.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, LA was not the place to feel beautiful. I gotta say that. It kind of still isn't. It will not affirm you in some areas. It just depends on where you are and who you're around. But yeah, it's. It's rough out here.

[Brooke Devard]

Well, you're. I feel like you are objectively gorgeous, so.

[Issa Rae]

Thank you.

[Brooke Devard]

But, but it's. But it's like, it's. It's interesting how, like, rejection from boys or like just what you see in pop culture, like, shapes your understanding of what's considered beautiful. Even though you know your truth.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, I mean, when did you feel beautiful?

[Brooke Devard]

So I watched a lot of 106 and park music videos, so I feel like that was. I didn't have the butt, I didn't have the, you know, I didn't have all that stuff. So I felt like I was awkward because I didn't have all of those things. But again, it's just like the media you consume. But I think if I had seen Insecure and I had seen a character like Issa, you know, that would have helped A lot growing up. And I'm sure you hear that from black women all the time.

[Issa Rae]

Not on the beauty side. I mean, I think about, like, generally, people might feel represented, and I guess I've never unpacked what that meant.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, definitely on the beauty side for them.

[Issa Rae]

But that's. That's amazing to hear. But you're right. Like, music videos, magazines, all of that. I remember reading about how that was affecting us and affecting us societally, and I didn't realize the impact of it until, I guess now when you see that there's absolutely nothing wrong with if you're not satisfied with your appearance, deciding to change it. But a lot of that has been influenced by what we've seen, that feeling of not feeling good enough. So there's clearly a direct Correlation between watching 106 and park videos and being like, my butt isn't big enough to be like, oh, I can make it big enough now.

[Brooke Devard]

Right. That's so true. We have to talk about Stanford University. I was class. I was class of 2011.

[Issa Rae]

I did not know that.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. So I think you were a senior. When I was a freshman, I really.

[Issa Rae]

I graduated 07, so, yeah, I was seven.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes.

[Issa Rae]

Where did you live?

[Brooke Devard]

I lived so many different places. I lived in Lin. My freshman year. I lived in Sweets. I lived in Mirror Lees.

[Issa Rae]

You lived in Mirrors? I definitely lived in Mirror Lees. I. You never lived in Ooge, Clearly.

[Brooke Devard]

I never lived in Ooge.

[Issa Rae]

I'm glad I didn't live in Ooge.

[Brooke Devard]

There was so much going on at Ooge.

[Issa Rae]

It was always something on. It was a good place to, like, go and then leave.

[Brooke Devard]

And then leave.

[Issa Rae]

Exactly.

[Brooke Devard]

That's the black house for everyone listening.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah.

[Brooke Devard]

But it was a culture shock for me coming from New York City. I was not prepared for Palo Alto. I was not prepared for Stanford.

[Issa Rae]

Nobody was prepared for Palo Alto, for the record.

[Brooke Devard]

It's just not even a real place. But how deep in the Stanford culture were you? Like, were you doing Full Moon at the quad?

[Issa Rae]

I did it once freshman year. No, I actually did it later. I was so anti. When I got there, I was very immersed. Like, yes. Like, you know, I came from a predominantly black and Latino school, so I was very much in, like, where's the black bubble? Like, where am I? Where are my people at? And it was. And I. And I was the only one. Five people from my high school got into Stanford, and they all got put in Ooge. And I was the only one that was in Rinconada in my freshman year. So I was like, across campus?

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah.

[Issa Rae]

And I was like, this is what? Like, how did y'all get this? And so I was very much. I don't know, I just didn't think it was cool, you know. And then it wasn't until like maybe junior and senior, when I lived off campus. I got an apartment off campus because I was grown.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, wow.

[Issa Rae]

After Merrily's, I got the bug, you know, and then full moon on the quad. I did my senior year with some friends. We were like, we should just do it for once. And it was fun.

[Brooke Devard]

Can you explain full moon on the quad?

[Issa Rae]

I. Can't you explain it? I really don't know.

[Brooke Devard]

It's the first full moon of the year. Right. And everyone descends on the quad at like midnight and kisses people.

[Issa Rae]

Yes. And that's the thing. Mono was spreading during my freshman year. So I was like, I'm not doing this, but I participated with a senior year. So I don't even know who I kissed, but shout out to him.

[Brooke Devard]

Freshmen have to find seniors to kiss.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, it's like, it's a freshman.

[Brooke Devard]

That's. But I just remember seeing these like tables of mouthwash in different corners of the quad. I was like, what is this? Like, where have I. What are my four years going to be like, so you did it. I observed.

[Issa Rae]

You didn't participate?

[Brooke Devard]

I didn't participate.

[Issa Rae]

You never participated?

[Brooke Devard]

I never participated, no. I guess I was afraid of the germs.

[Issa Rae]

I get that.

[Brooke Devard]

But I'm curious for you, like, as a creative, I was an English major and I did the Film Society. I did the Sundance trip every year. Like, that's like, that was my only saving grace.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, I wish I participated in that. I did it.

[Brooke Devard]

It's hard, right, to be a creative in such a tech heavy school. So how did you kind of find your place?

[Issa Rae]

I'm actually really, really grateful that it wasn't such an art space because I really wanted to go to nyu. And in visiting one, it was just. It wasn't a campus. I was just like, oh, I want a campus experience. And then two, so many of the best artists go there. And I might have been intimidated. I might have been in my head. Whereas at Stanford, there were so many people who were like humby or like human biology and wanting to be doctors, wanting to be in tech and lawyers. And so there was just a wide open lane for me wanting to put on play and direct and write. And, you know, the camera was always available in the library, so, like, I could just do whatever and people were forgiving of. Because my plays weren't. Weren't great at all. And so it was. I didn't know what I was doing, but it was. I had the freedom to experiment. And then the person who was like the lead of our play was trying to be a doctor and he could have freedom and being like, okay, I'm in the lead in this and I'm trying this out. So it was very forgiving and free and it helped to build my confidence as, as, as an artist.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. I remember knowing that you did art stuff on campus. Like you would be. You were friends with people and everyday people. That acapella group.

[Issa Rae]

Remember, everyday people actually hate acapella. But yes, I will support my girl in it.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. Yes. And by the time Misadventures of an Awkward Black Girl came out, everyone was rooting for you. Everyone was like, this girl went to Stanford.

[Issa Rae]

Yes, that's right. There was. I mean, so much of the Stanford community because there are a lot of awkward black girls at Stanford as well.

[Brooke Devard]

A lot.

[Issa Rae]

It was like that. That was like my main audience, the core audience. And my first web series was about being black at Stanford. Dorm Diaries.

[Brooke Devard]

So there was like, yes.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, that was like. I remember hearing that someone was going to reboot it and I was like, that's dope. And I don't know if it ever happened.

[Brooke Devard]

I don't know if that happened either. But certainly people in the creative space of Stanford have been watching your career, you know, since you were at the school.

[Issa Rae]

That's so glad to hear.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. Because it's you and who? Alexander Payne. There's not that many.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, that's. That's true. Writers are low key though, for the most part.

[Brooke Devard]

True.

[Issa Rae]

I didn't know Alexander Payne went to Stanford.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah, he did.

[Issa Rae]

Again, I need to have like. Do you go to your reunions? No, you checked out. You know what?

[Brooke Devard]

I'm still best friends with my roommates. We all hang out all the time. They're here in la. But we went to one reunion and we just all hung out together. We were like, we don't have to be. We don't have to be here.

[Issa Rae]

I will say the last one I went to, not this one, maybe it was my 10 year. I talked to a girl from my dorm who was doing amazing things. Like, I've never felt. Felt so like, oh, I'm not doing anything because she was just giving. She had a company that was giving back in so many ways. And she was also science focused. And I was like, people from this school are so impressive. And I never made the effort, so that's what it was good for. But I still hung out with my friends.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes, Yes. I want to talk about your hair evolution because both on the show and in real life, you always give such a hair moment. So I want to hear how your relationship with your hair has changed over the years.

[Issa Rae]

So much I have gone from, like, the burden of my hair and sometimes still feeling like, ugh, God, I gotta figure out my hair, I gotta do my hair. But, like, again, on the beauty side, not feeling like my hair was in its natural state beautiful, even though my mom tried to instill it in me, we had different hair textures. You know, my mom is. She's from Louisiana and she has natural hair, but her hair texture is just different and she's more fair skinned. So I was always like, you don't know my struggle and you can't make me feel beautiful. Stop trying to tell me black is beautiful. And at school again, like in middle school, high school, everybody was like, perming their hair or, you know, they had the press, the fresh press is going, and my hair was just too fine to do that.

[Brooke Devard]

And so we also didn't have YouTube and Pinterest. No.

[Issa Rae]

To, like, help you figure it out. No.

[Brooke Devard]

You were out here on your own.

[Issa Rae]

You were out here on your own. And so, you know, I experimented with a lot of different styles. I wore my hair in braids a lot in high school. When I, when it was out, I was just like, wear a scarf or a hood just because I just didn't want to deal with it. And I used to really bother my mom, like, well, where did I go wrong? Like, where you don't want to do it. And it wasn't until I, I guess college. Again, like, seeing so many girls wearing their natural hair. Like, I remember a friend of mine, Keisha, like, seeing her hair in twist, like her natural hair in twists. And she would just look so fly wearing it. And I was like, oh, let me try this on my own. And it looked terrible. I remember coming back home and my little brother being like, what the fuck are you? What is your ha. Hair doing? And I was like, you just don't you from my life. You're still out here. You're still, you know, you don't get it. But he was right. Looking back on those pictures, I was like, you know, the YouTube tutorials were definitely needed. But yeah, then I cut it all off in promotion of Awkward Black Girl. And that's what changed my life. I feel like everybody should do a big shot at least once in your life, because it really just frees you of your hair expectations in so many ways. And to just have, like, a bald head and wake up and. And, you know, be cold, but, like, also just be free was a feeling I had never felt before. Cause it was just like, there's.

[Brooke Devard]

There I am.

[Issa Rae]

There I am. This is. You're just face is here. And the only annoying part is that men would just come up and just think you were deep, you know, for no reason, right. And just be like, sister. Ooh. And I was just like, no, I'm still. I'm very shallow, actually.

[Brooke Devard]

So don't let the bald head fool you.

[Issa Rae]

Don't let the bald head fool you. I'm not badu.

[Brooke Devard]

The hairstyles that you wore on Insecure, they're like this canon for what you can do with natural hair. Like, you and Felicia just created some incredible looks. Like, week after week, you're just like, what's the next hairstyle going to be? What was it like working with her?

[Issa Rae]

She's the best. Like, and she. She used to go by loving your hair. And it's actually what she was put on this earth for, to make you love your hair because she also loves your hair. And to have that not be a worry, to walk on set and know that she was going to, you know, take care of my hair and be an artist and, like, use my hair as a canvas to show off what she can do. Like, one of my favorite tweets that I saw was like, Issa got three inches of hair and 400 hairstyles. Exactly. And that was all her. And that was. And then, you know, like, it was. And I definitely gave her freedom to do what she wanted to do. There were definitely some times where now we could joke about it, and I'd be like, girl, that did not go with that fit. Or this was clearly the same day. Like, why does Issa have three hairstyles on?

[Brooke Devard]

We loved it. We loved it.

[Issa Rae]

And, you know, this was her first TV project, so she was learning too, but it was just like, that's my age. She just gets it. And I feel blessed to have randomly met her.

[Brooke Devard]

She did an incredible job. And I think Insecure, we watched for the plot, of course, but there was this visual element to Insecure the hair, obviously. All of the visuals that Melina provided, Shiona, in the later seasons, with all of the styling, the cast just. You cast some beautiful people, right? Just beautiful men and women, right? So there's just like, so much visual eye candy. How do you feel like you developed your aesthetic and, like, appreciation for visuals. Was it through watching movies?

[Issa Rae]

I mean, it was definitely through watching lots and lots of movies. And I just remember a period in high school in particular, like, the way television shows made me feel. Certain television shows made me feel like they were a part of my life or they were a part of my. My core memories. And some of them are embarrassing to say. I mean, there were definitely shows on wb, like those teen shows, but one show I remember in particular, Roswell. Did you ever watch Roswell?

[Brooke Devard]

I never watched Roswell, but I'm familiar with it.

[Issa Rae]

There was a specific aesthetic. It was dark. It was, in hindsight, dumb. Like, it was about these teenage aliens that had come in Roswell, New Mexico. And, you know, Roswell, New Mexico is known for Area 51 and supposedly, like a crash landing spaceship. So it was about a girl who worked at a diner in Area 51, Roswell, New Mexico. And these aliens come down and they're like three attractive teenagers, and she falls in love with one.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay, but like, lots of world building.

[Issa Rae]

Sure. That was Katherine Heigl's, like, first major role before she went berserk. And I remember they had the theme song, Dido, but it was so, like, it just brought you in. And the music was really good in that show. And like, there was something about that feeling in shows like that where I was like, I want. If I have a show, like, the music has to be right, it has to have a feeling. The lighting has to be great, but I don't know how to do those things. So having someone like Melina come in and direct it and establish visuals and having. And working with other artists like Diana's and the Shionas and obviously the Prentices, in some ways, like, everybody brings their own aesthetic. And it was like a marriage of aesthetics. And I had to, like, you know, pull it together through something that would make me feel. And I'm glad that other people felt it too.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, absolutely. A lot of black excellence. And the music as well that you're mentioning, I mean, rap shit. Your other baby. One of the things that you explore on that show is the music industry and how vulnerable people are in the music industry. But Hollywood is kind of the same. So I'm curious how you've learned to kind of stand up for yourself and advocate for yourself in these industries that don't often give the artist a lot of agency to make decisions. I think the music industry is probably worse than any other industry.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, the music industry, to me, is harder because at Least Hollywood, I've prepped for it and I've watched so much of like the process and it now is a bit easier to advocate for myself. Sometimes I advocate too much. I'm not gonna lie and have to like fall back and remember, like, this is a collaborative process or, you know, I know that I'm not always right all the time, but sometimes you can come into it and feel like you have one opportunity to get it right. And I hold that very dear. Like, I want to get it right out the gate. And if everybody thinks they know best, then we won't get anywhere. And it's so important to me to come with an open mind, but to have work with other people who are coming with an open mind too. On the music industry side, it's so wild west and it almost feels like there are no rules. And because I'm not as well versed in the world, it's just harder to navigate in some ways because it's also become the norm that it's kind of crooked.

[Brooke Devard]

Like there's.

[Issa Rae]

I've said this before, but there are a lot of conflicts of interest. Like you can have a label, but also manage the artist. Like you could also your lawyer can rep you and the label. There's just all these different components that I'm just like that. That can't happen. Some of those things can't happen in Hollywood. Hollywood is some fucked up shit. But there are just other. And even the way that artists get paid, like the fact that they have to have. They can't even get paid off of the music. Them, like they have to have multiple, multiple other avenues of income because it is just so. It's so much harder and up.

[Brooke Devard]

Right. I mean, the success of Fenty Beauty, I feel like we're never going to get another album.

[Issa Rae]

I know. I'm like. And I don't blame you.

[Brooke Devard]

And I don't blame her. Exactly.

[Issa Rae]

I don't blame you. Girl Raise your family have another boy or girl.

[Brooke Devard]

Can we talk about the trailer that was released today?

[Issa Rae]

Yes, let's talk about it.

[Brooke Devard]

Because I love Sza. I've always loved Sza. And we love Kiki.

[Issa Rae]

Yes.

[Brooke Devard]

To see them together in this like, buddy movie. I'm just so excited for it. Tell us about the project and was it also your idea to work with SZA in this way? Cause we haven't seen her like, act, act.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah. This is. First of all, I'm huge fans of them both. Like, SZA was amused for insecure. Keke can make everything entertaining. She was also in the last season in really fun way. But, like, I could. Keke also is almost like, I just have a new respect for her. She was also a producer on this mov, and just watching her work and knowing how much she does, it was incredible. And sza, this is her first major acting role. She did a stint for us on Insecure, but, like, absolutely hilarious. And it wasn't my idea initially to bring Sza to the project. I wanna say the head of Sony was just like, my daughter really loves Sza. And I was like, it's always the.

[Brooke Devard]

Daughter, so it's like, my teenager loves this person.

[Issa Rae]

And I was like, I don't even know if she would do something like this. And then she was all the way down to come in. She auditioned.

[Brooke Devard]

Wow. Once she heard you were attached, probably.

[Issa Rae]

Listen, give me some credit.

[Brooke Devard]

Thank you.

[Issa Rae]

I'll take it. But, like, then their chemistry was just immediately amazing. This was before that they didn't. Was it before they did the SNL episode together? I don't wanna lie. So I don't know if it was before or after, but they were just fully locked in. I think it was after when they did the auditions together. So at least they had had some experience doing the promos together. But they were just immediately amazing. And Keke is such a professional veteran. She was also like, yeah, I'll go to your house. Like, I'll practice with you for the audition process for the chemistry reads. Cause, you know, you have to do it on tape, and then the studios have to see it and they have to buy it. And so they were just so locked in. And I cannot wait for people to see their dynamic in the movie, like, their improv game together. Also, the conversations that they would have. I would want to be like, y'all know y'all are mic'd, please. They would get into these, like, random conversations, and they're funny as fuck, is all I'll say.

[Brooke Devard]

I can't wait for the movie. It looks like it's gonna be so fun.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, it is. It really is. And, like, that's also. I'm such a fan of the writer of the movie, Syreeta Singleton. She just writes black girls, black women, black friendships. So, so. Well, like, I worked with her on rap shit as well, and she was right around Insecure, but this was, like her baby from the start. This is, like, seven years in the making. So to see the script evolve, and I've always thought it was funny, but to have these two actresses bring it to life again, I can't wait for people to see it.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. It takes so long to get things made in Hollywood.

[Issa Rae]

Truly does.

[Brooke Devard]

I always forget how long these projects are in development.

[Issa Rae]

Infuriating. But I think it's the right time.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. Now, your character as Issa on the show evolved and grew, and we saw, like, the style glow up by, like, the final season, the outfits, everything. How do you feel your style has evolved over the years?

[Issa Rae]

It's, in some ways, it's become more aware and intentional. I think before I was just like, I'm just, I'm in work mode. Like, I'm not thinking about all of that and I'm not seeing as much. And now, like, I love clothes. I love figuring out, like, like what, what aesthetic I want to have, even seasonally. And there's just something about also getting older and not wanting to shy away from, like, what the woman version of me is. And that is something I never thought that I'd imagine because there's especially this culture, there's such a desire to stay young and to stay, you know, like in your 20s in that way.

[Brooke Devard]

And I mean, you're still very young.

[Issa Rae]

Yes. And I, I'm still young, but I'm still like, yeah, I'm. I'm a grown ass woman. And what does that version of me look like? And I can't wait to kind of step into that, that era.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. I feel like you have, like, perfect, like, minimalist, glam style is my, my bag.

[Issa Rae]

I love it. Generally, I don't like to do. I don't like to do the most. Sit in any way.

[Brooke Devard]

You don't have to. You're just like, look at the skin, look at the cheek, look at the. We don't need to do too much. I. It's interesting to hear you say that you enjoy it and you like it because I was thinking about just the process of glam. Right. You said you had to do some speaking earlier today. Pretty much anytime you show up as Issa Rae, you have to, I would assume, do glam, do hair, do makeup, figure out what you were going to wear. And I think about men like Larry David. He could do 10 interviews in a day. He's just going to wear whatever, just show up.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah.

[Brooke Devard]

Right. So do you resent it ever that you can't just show up and just speak about the work that you have to also present, and this is for all women in the industry, but that you also have to present with the hair and the makeup and the outfit?

[Issa Rae]

No, I don't resent it. It's fun. I Think in the past when it was a time suck. I think if anything, the only thing I resent is the hours where it's like my call time is significantly earlier because I have to do the glam time. And so now I have a 16 hour day where maybe you have a 12 hour. The only time. But, like, for appearances, I. The. The glam process. You're essentially being pampered and taken care of. And yeah, that. That part is just fun. But there is like a. If I want to get done with my day sooner, I'm like, oh, I can't just do this thing and. And run and be out. Like, the. Taking the makeup off and all that at the end of the day is the worst. I've definitely slept like this in bed. And even I felt like last night I accidentally fell asleep. Asleep on my couch and was just like. And then wash the makeup off at like 2am but because you can't.

[Brooke Devard]

Can you fall asleep with makeup on? I can't.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, yeah. I can't. I don't. I don't like to, but I didn't even know I was gonna fall asleep last night. So that was like, yeah, a struggle. You can't sleep with makeup on.

[Brooke Devard]

No, I'm just like, my skincare routine at night is like, I need to do it.

[Issa Rae]

You're. You're like, morally like, your body won't let you.

[Brooke Devard]

My body will.

[Issa Rae]

Body and mind.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah.

[Issa Rae]

You're like, it's. It would disgust me to say that.

[Brooke Devard]

It would disgust me.

[Issa Rae]

Exactly. Are you disgusted? I just told you.

[Brooke Devard]

No, that's okay. This is a safe space and clearly your skin is very forgiving.

[Issa Rae]

I don't do it all the time. And yeah, I will definitely wake up, like, if I fall asleep. Like, I also have to have my routine at night and take it off because it also just doesn't feel good. So I've never. I had. I won't say never. I've definitely on a drunken night, been like, what the fuck? I'm fully glad I'm dead. But generally, yes, I do take my makeup off.

[Brooke Devard]

What is your nighttime skincare routine?

[Issa Rae]

Oh, I love my nighttime routine. It's just gotten better and better.

[Brooke Devard]

I, like, I'm sorry, I just have to say I'm looking at your skin. It's poreless glowing.

[Issa Rae]

I have to. I have to confess that I just did a skin tag removal and I just did it impromptu. I've had them all my life. I have moles and I grew up with them, and I didn't know until Like, Like, I got a new one. Like, recently. Last year, I went on a trip and I didn't know that it's caused by, like, the sun. We get more by the sun. And I wasn't a sunscreen girly for a long time, and so I got one here. And I was like, oh, I need to get it removed. Like, this one's actually bothering me. And I went in just during our movie. I went in, like, I want to say it was like, on a Sunday. And I just went into some, like, spot that I found. I was like, oh, I just wanted to remove this one. And it was this Korean owned spot. And she was like, oh, just get rid of all of them. I was like, what?

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah, they just kind of burned them off.

[Issa Rae]

But I didn't want that. Like, I had some. That some of them remind me of, like my aunts and my grandmothers. And she was just like, no, take them all off. Like, just. Just, you're. You're here, you might as well do it. And this is the price. And I was like, oh, all right, I'm gonna do this. And I thought I only had like, six. When I tell you I was sitting under that thing, and with every bird, it was like. And then I got it. When I. When I got to set the next day, I remember the director one, my exec was just like, oh, I didn't know you had so many freckles. And I was like, girl, you know, you said I have freckles. I had like, burn marks on my face. And then when I went to the director and this is a woman to woman is great. The director who's a man was like, I walked up to him to give a note and he was like, oh. And I was like, oh, yeah, I got my skin tags removed. Cause it looks like you tattoo freckles on your face and they're raised right. And I was like. I told him. He was like, ah, I thought you were, like, auditioning for a Marvel movie or something. I was like, like, I hate men so, so much. But that was also like a. That was like the first procedure I've ever done. Yes, like, drastic change. But, yeah, I love it. And that's also, like, increased my skincare routine because it, like, taught me about vitamin C and.

[Brooke Devard]

Right. And you have to be really diligent about sunscreen after doing that as well.

[Issa Rae]

I absolutely had to be diligent about sunscreen. I wasn't supposed to be in the sun, but it was like a primarily outdoor shoot, and so that was interesting. But Now I feel like. Oh, like I'm. I'm very much caring for my skin in a new way.

[Brooke Devard]

But what's product rotation?

[Issa Rae]

I use hyaluronic serum, of course, Vitamin C. My favorite product that I've talked about is dopia from Olie. Henriksen.

[Brooke Devard]

Henriksen, yes.

[Issa Rae]

And that. That was for, like, I've never. I used to get these annoying, like, period pimples either here or here and never get them anymore. My skin. I barely get pimples when I use them.

[Brooke Devard]

Is it a moisturizer?

[Issa Rae]

It's. It's more of like an acid type of thing. Yeah. And so you. You use it sparingly, but it's like, made to sleep overnight in. And so, like, if I feel a pimple coming on, then I'll. I'll put it on and it's just. It's great. And it makes your skin just glow the next morning. And if not, then I'll. Then I might use a vitamin C cream to sleep in at night. But that. That Utopia is like my. My secret weapon.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. It's amazing to hear you say that. The skin tag removal is like, the only procedure thing you've done because I've only been in LA for two years, but. But everyone here does stuff to their face.

[Issa Rae]

I've seen that all. It scares me. I've seen that, like, even the needle to numb my face, I was just like, no, I can't. I can't do this anywhere else or ever again.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. So you feel like you've been able to resist that? Cause I feel like it's everywhere, like Botox and filler and.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, I guess for me, I.

[Brooke Devard]

Not that there's anything wrong with it also.

[Issa Rae]

No, no. But for me, my flaws are what make me me, like, in that. And I've learned through years to embrace that. And I like. And yeah, even the skin tag thing was just like, oh. I guess this could be seen as a flaw, but for me, it was just like. It was like, this runs in my family. And almost part of that. Like, I was gonna keep one. And she was like, are you sure? She was a hater, high key. She was like, why would you just keep one? I was like, I guess. She was like, you don't know what you're gonna look like. The rest of your face is gonna be clean, then you're gonna have one. I was like, damn, bitch. Fine. So I was like, she shaved my grandma off. But generally, like, I appreciate the things that have made me me and want to keep that. And altering that feels Like, I don't know, giving up a part of that.

[Brooke Devard]

I totally understand that. You obviously work very hard, hence falling asleep sometimes with your makeup on.

[Issa Rae]

Knew you were judging me.

[Brooke Devard]

No, listen, I identify with a very strong work ethic. Like workaholic. It's seen as a bad thing, but sometimes you just want to. For me, working gives me happiness. I love to work when I'm on vacation. For too. Like when. Yes, when we wrapping this up so I can get back to my laptop.

[Issa Rae]

Relatable.

[Brooke Devard]

But self care is important as well. One of the things that you showed on Insecure for me, it was the first time I saw black women using marijuana as a form of self care in media. Like, you know, I had to think about it as like, had I ever seen that before?

[Issa Rae]

Like, for self care.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. No, seriously, for self. I mean, I saw it in my real life in the mirror dorms, you know, when people would, you know, roll up and relax and talk about how stressed we were about finals. But. But I hadn't seen it in media, and I certainly hadn't seen black women indulging in using marijuana. And I feel like obviously you've got your incredible champagne. Like, if you had. If you released like an Issa strain.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, man, I'm not, I'm not versed enough in it. You know, I think even doing it at that time, like, I was. I had finally stopped being afraid of weed because I, you know, in college I was. I partook and I went to hell and it was just like, edibles just weren't my thing and I had to discover, like, what wouldn't fuck my mind up, right? And I finally found like, the right strain for me. And that's when I was like, oh, we putting this shit in Insecure. Because this really is like, you know, this is. This is great for me. But generally, yeah, I had had so many bad experiences with it that I just, I wouldn't feel qualified to make a strain because I don't want anybody coming for me saying that they've had a bad experience. But I know Lena had one and she's really well versed and I've tried hers and that was even too strong for me. I was like, girl, you tried to kill me. But yeah, I'm much more of a sipper than I am a smoker. I'm. I'm definitely a social smoker. But opt for sipping for sipping.

[Brooke Devard]

What do you do for self care?

[Issa Rae]

I love baths. Now, I wasn't a big bath taker before, but that is huge for me. I Spend a lot of time. Like, not as much time as I want to anymore. But friends are huge for me. Like, random outings.

[Brooke Devard]

It's hard to do as people get busy.

[Issa Rae]

I know. It really, really does. Like, my friends getting busy has been the worst. It really has.

[Brooke Devard]

But do you. Okay, tell me, if you do this, have you started having, like, your admin help you schedule social outings? Because that's where I'm at. Oh, really? Okay.

[Issa Rae]

I want those to be my. That's what I want. That would piss me off. I'm like, oh, I.

[Brooke Devard]

My friend's like, I'm liaising with your assistant to get lunch on the books with you. But I'm like, that's the only way it's going to happen on my calendar. Sometimes times.

[Issa Rae]

No. There are certain things that I have to do, especially the social things.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay.

[Issa Rae]

Vacations, things like that. Like, I have to book for the most part myself. Like, shout out to Natalie. She may help me, like, book my friends, like, if we take a trip together.

[Brooke Devard]

The accommodations.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, those kind of things.

[Brooke Devard]

But, like, you do the scheduling.

[Issa Rae]

Yes.

[Brooke Devard]

All in a group text.

[Issa Rae]

No, I hate a group text.

[Brooke Devard]

I hate a group text.

[Issa Rae]

Like, I don't want to get those. It's an email. And so that's the convenience of being like, yeah, let's just put this on email. And I have one friend. I'm not an itinerary. Do you do an itinerary on your vacation?

[Brooke Devard]

No. So I'm not an itinerary girl, but my husband does.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, he makes one.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah, he's.

[Issa Rae]

Wait, what's your sign?

[Brooke Devard]

I'm Leo.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, you're Leo.

[Brooke Devard]

He's an Aries.

[Issa Rae]

Okay. Oh, mine's an Aries, too.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, really?

[Issa Rae]

Are y'all compatible?

[Brooke Devard]

Very. What's your sign?

[Issa Rae]

Capricorn.

[Brooke Devard]

Capricorn, okay.

[Issa Rae]

But no, my Leo friend, he's the one that makes the itinerary for the trip.

[Brooke Devard]

And I'm sure it's fun.

[Issa Rae]

It is. Because he gets us sometimes he'll be a little overzealous, but he knows his friend group. And so it's around food. And that's the best part.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. And, like, maybe content breaks as well. Or he's not a Leo in that way.

[Issa Rae]

Content breaks. What are those?

[Brooke Devard]

Capturing content like, oh, we gotta get the group picture. We've gotta do the TikTok.

[Issa Rae]

No, no, that escaped us. You schedule content?

[Brooke Devard]

Yes, yes. As a content creator, I'm always thinking, okay, like, when are we gonna do the content? But it's good to do. You have to front Load it in the vacation. Like, you've gotta get your content early, so then you can, like, relax.

[Issa Rae]

I guess I just realized I'm the content person. You're the content person. I'm always the one filming. But it's not, like, organized. It's just like, we're doing this.

[Brooke Devard]

You just get an idea.

[Issa Rae]

And that's probably why we. Well, no, it's not like, like, like organized content. I guess it's more like y'all are doing shit. And I'm filming it just because. And I'm posting it. Like, there was one thing that I was gonna post for my friend, and I was. I asked her, I was like, can I post this? And she was like, no, absolutely not. What the fuck? I'm drunk and I'm a lawyer. And I was like, oh, shit. Okay.

[Brooke Devard]

Right.

[Issa Rae]

Well, damn. So in that way, no, but I have always captured our moments. I like the real stuff.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah.

[Issa Rae]

And. But that's also, like. Then I regret that we don't have group pictures. So we do need someone.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. To schedule. You gotta schedule in the context. Content. All right, now I want to talk about your boundaries with the public, because you're a very private person. You share things, but you've been able to maintain a level of privacy that I think is really admirable.

[Issa Rae]

Thank you.

[Brooke Devard]

You popped up married.

[Issa Rae]

I did.

[Brooke Devard]

We were all shocked. We were all like, is this real? Is this from a movie set?

[Issa Rae]

I love that.

[Brooke Devard]

I mean, we were shocked. We were. We were happy for you. We were thrilled. You looked beautiful. But why is it important to you to keep those boundaries and keep things private?

[Issa Rae]

Because, like, it's precious. Like those. When you're talking about my self care, like, that is so much of my self care is just being able to know that I have this and it's nobody else's. There's. There's no input. There's no beyond. Like, my mom or my. My family. In some occasions, like, that's. It's just. It's very, very personal. And then. Yeah, like, as a nosy person, I know what it's like to also, like, be all up in somebody else's business. And I don't want that for me.

[Brooke Devard]

Right.

[Issa Rae]

So it's just. It's just a choice and it serves me. And I kind of always been that way, like, since high school. And my friends call me out for it, you know, like, you know, even with my friendships, they'll be like, you ask so many questions, and then you never answer, you know, and that's not intentional. It's just. I also think other people are significantly more interesting.

[Brooke Devard]

I can relate to that. Like when I go to dinners with people and they just talk the whole time, I'm like, you're alone with your thoughts all the time. Don't you want to hear from other people? Do you know what I mean?

[Issa Rae]

Is that where I thought it was going?

[Brooke Devard]

Where'd you think it was going?

[Issa Rae]

I thought you were gonna say when you're at dinner and like you like to talk to, like, you don't know, you like to question other people. But those people that just dominate the.

[Brooke Devard]

Conversation, I'm like, you are with yourself all the time. Do we need this monologue?

[Issa Rae]

God, those kind of people don't. There's just no self awareness there, I think. And they think they're the most interesting people in the world. And so.

[Brooke Devard]

Right.

[Issa Rae]

Some of those. I try to avoid those people as much as possible. But at the same time, sometimes there are the most interesting people in the world.

[Brooke Devard]

Rarely.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, rarely. It's true. And it's mostly I, I found a lot of men do that. Like, and a lot of men don't know how to have good conversations. I'm not trying to.

[Brooke Devard]

No, it's, it's. This is all fair. They don't ask follow up questions.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, but they don't do that with each other. I feel like that's why men aren't good friends to each other because they don't. They mostly talk. Talk and comment, but they don't, oh, prod and poke.

[Brooke Devard]

My husband will be like, oh, they're moving to New Mexico. I'm like, why are they moving? I don't know. I'm like, I didn't like a huge life change. Like, did you ask any follow up?

[Issa Rae]

This is me off. Like, literally I was talking to somebody who was talking about, like, his friend's marriage just fell apart. And I was like, oh, man. Why was it, like, was it another woman? Was it. He was like, oh, I didn't ask all that. But he's like, he was really sad. And I'm like, what the fuck? You didn't ask any. His marriage fell apart and you didn't ask any questions? That's crazy. And I can't imagine that, like, I would be all, I would be at my friend's house, like, you know, I know, like that shoulder crying, like all those things.

[Brooke Devard]

I would have all the details.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Brooke Devard]

Do you watch Love is Blind at all?

[Issa Rae]

Girl, this is the last season I will ever watch again in my life. I'm sick.

[Brooke Devard]

Well, I have a theory about Love is blind. My theory is that men fall in love on this show so quickly and because they're talking for the first time in their life and listening and yep. It's like I feel so close to this person. I'm like, welcome to conversation.

[Issa Rae]

But they're also like talking about themselves and being listened to. Like that one relationship that ended with the gentleman whose sisters passed and he was. He gave the bracelet.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. Yeah.

[Issa Rae]

And it's edited, but he was talking so much and he was one of those people that didn't appear, at least on camera, to be asking follow up questions. But I'm like, men fall in love when they're just, just talking and they think that it was the best conversation ever. They're like, oh, man, so good talking to you, cuz you didn't ask me any questions and you're just talking about yourself. That's what's crazy. But yeah, that show is deceptive. I'm like, they're not like vetting the men anymore and that's pissing me off. And they're selling us dreams.

[Brooke Devard]

I know. I feel like Lauren and Cam were like the last.

[Issa Rae]

No, Brett and. Brett and Tiffany. I love Brett and Tiffany. They're a great couple.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay.

[Issa Rae]

Is that it, Lauren? Yeah.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. That's not a lot of couples to speak of after.

[Issa Rae]

No, it's not after seven seasons. Wait, isn't there one more that we like? There are more couples that have lasted. Like, I know Amber and Barnett from the first.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. Amber and Barnett are the ones just had a baby.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah. You said Blissen back. And now this season, there's one. I. I like them. They're little night nerds together. He lied about that text. But they overcame it.

[Brooke Devard]

I'm not cut up on this season.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Brooke Devard]

No, no, that's fine. That's fine. I can take spoilers on. Love this because it'll disappoint you though your business endeavors. Sienna Natural Curls, which I'm a huge fan. In our household, we use all of the products. My husband, my son. My son. Especially the mousse. The curling mousse is incredible for twist outs, laying down edges.

[Issa Rae]

I'm taking credit for that as well.

[Brooke Devard]

Thank you so much. And I know you work very closely with Hannah, who's incredible, but why was it interesting for you to go into hair specifically? And you kind of did it before. There's now this huge wave of Moral Sacred and Fenty hair and Taraji P. Henson's line and Gabriella Union. I mean, there's so many black women in Hollywood that are in hair, but Sienna Naturals was kind of before all of this.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, it was being developed for sure before all of that. My involvement in an official capacity happened in 2020, I wanna say. But before that, I had been using the products forever, since Hannah first started making them, since she first started developing them in her kitchen. And that was when I was starting to grow my hair back out. And so it was the perfect time to be like, okay, sure, let me see how these products affect my hair. And if they're actually moisturizing my ha. Because we have different textures. And so she also was able to prioritize making products for my hair texture. And so in some ways, I did feel a sense of ownership for it. And she was testing it on, like, my little sister and obviously her friends and the like. But I remember every time I go to New York, she'd give me new products to try. And so, because I was using them, you know, she asked me if I wanted to come on in an official capacity. And, yeah, by that time, I had a reputation for, like, showcasing my natural hair and having different natural hairstyles and taking pride in that. And so there was a natural synergy, and I felt worthy of coming on board.

[Brooke Devard]

What have you learned about hair formulation and products since working on Sienna Naturals?

[Issa Rae]

Absolutely nothing. Every single time she talks about it, I'm like. Because that is her specialty, I'm the user of the products. There's a specific she works in with a phenomenal chemist. I know that, like, where the ingredients are concerned, like, they're clean, they're good for your hair. They're activ. Actually, you know, these vegan products that are. That are healthy. And I've learned a lot about more hair health than the actual process of making them. I know when we were doing the Dream Curl cream, like that, and the mousse went through less iterations than that. But the Dream Curl cream in particular, like, that was a product that I requested, and I didn't have the language to describe what I wanted. And so there were so many different iterations of it because she was sending products. And I was like, no, it needs to be, like, thicker, and it needs to, like, kind of weigh the hair down. And so she would come back and be like, oh, you're talking. Talking about the student. Listen, but you're talking about this. Okay, I'll give you this version. And so she is so, so well versed, and I'm just a face.

[Brooke Devard]

But you also help on the creative 100. Yes.

[Issa Rae]

I know my strengths.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. And the products are so, so good. I was trying to count how many businesses you have.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, please don't do this.

[Brooke Devard]

Doing like a teaser for this. And I was like, I think, I think I counted six.

[Issa Rae]

Okay.

[Brooke Devard]

Does that sound right?

[Issa Rae]

Sure. I've never counted him.

[Brooke Devard]

You've got a lot. You've got a lot. Was there, was there also? I was, I was asking your team earlier. Is there, do you have an ownership stake in a sailing team?

[Issa Rae]

Yes. How did you know that did that, that was announced. Yes. SGP Shout out.

[Brooke Devard]

How many businesses does.

[Issa Rae]

But that's like, that doesn't count. That's like. Yes, those are like stakes.

[Brooke Devard]

And yeah, you, you've got a lot going on.

[Issa Rae]

But businesses that I, I claim that I'm involved in. Yeah, I think probably that number is, is close. And then even so incredible collaborators, incredible people who run them. It's not like I'm day to day on multiple. I can count on two to three fingers the number, the pro, the businesses that I'm like day to day on.

[Brooke Devard]

Day to day on. But I would imagine you experience burnout from time to time. Yeah, all the time.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah.

[Brooke Devard]

So what does burnout look like for you? How does it manifest?

[Issa Rae]

It manifests sometimes unhealthily in terms of like shutting down is. It manifests as powering through, which is also really unhealthy and just kind of getting it done. But then I might not be my best self, you know, and I, I like to operate as my best self. So it's taking a form in different ways. But I've gotten a lot better about taking time off.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay, how often do you take time off?

[Issa Rae]

I, I, I know that I have one day a week where I don't do anything or I try not to do anything.

[Brooke Devard]

Does that include the week? Weekends?

[Issa Rae]

Yeah. Well, no.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. In addition to the weekend.

[Issa Rae]

No, no, no.

[Brooke Devard]

So basically you still take Saturday and Sunday off.

[Issa Rae]

No, like a Saturday or a Sunday might be a full day off.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, wow. Okay. Most normal people, that's use the weekends to relax. You'll take one day of the weekend to relax?

[Issa Rae]

Yes.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay.

[Issa Rae]

But there's still like, I guess. Cause work isn't work. Like writing still feels like I get a day off and I'm okay. Still I'm writing.

[Brooke Devard]

Right.

[Issa Rae]

This is making me sound crazy.

[Brooke Devard]

No, listen, this is your truth. This is your truth. And, and you have the success and the like. Here's the thing. People want success. They want to do all these things, but they don't realize it takes so much work. Like, you have to work hard if.

[Issa Rae]

You are an entrepreneur. I think, like, there are certain times when, you know, like, I feel guilty. I. I could feel guilty for taking time off, but I've gotten better about that. And like, the first time that I took a real, real vacation was, I want to say 2021. And I realized I had been going 10 years straight, and it was like I decided I was going to take January off because even when I would go away, I would still try to. I feel like I needed to do a workation. Like, I would have a deadline. I'd be like, I'm gonna go somewhere. And I feel like a vacation. Cause I'm like, a beach is in front of me. But I'd still be like, I can't just do this. I have a deadline. And I'm like, still, like, writing or taking meetings or whatever is. But 2021, I was like, I. And I had to tell people in advance. I was like, I'm gonna take all of January off.

[Brooke Devard]

Wow.

[Issa Rae]

And nobody believed me. And. And then they would still try to, like, schedule things, like. And I was like, nah, I'm really taking all of January off. And I did that. And that was like, oh my gosh. And that was hard for me because I love January 1st. Like, okay, January 1st, it's my bag. Like, the world's is mine. And so to like, not be doing anything, that was hard. And to have to put that aside. And it's also my birthday month. It was all these things, and I. It took a while to adjust to that, but when I did, I. I just felt so free. And I was so recharged by February. And so since then, like, my last real vacation was Greece. And I didn't do anything on that trip.

[Brooke Devard]

And I was like, no laptop.

[Issa Rae]

No laptop taken out.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. You just had it just in case.

[Issa Rae]

I had it just in case there wasn't a work emergency. But no. Yes, I did not take it out. And like you said earlier, but by day five, I was like, day four, honestly, I was like, I need to go. Because it was also traveling with friends. And you know, we love each other, but we had never traveled that long together. And it was like, oh, five days is our minimum. We don't need to do seven ever again. I mean, our maximum, rather your maximum.

[Brooke Devard]

And in that January that you took off in that month, what did you learn about yourself not working? Because I think the other thing is sometimes we can tie so much of our identity to our work and so when that work. And I'm thinking about this with maternity leave, like, even though I work for myself, December and January, I'm not working, and.

[Issa Rae]

But you're gonna have the baby.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. So I'll be working in the nursery. Like, working. Breastfeeding, you know, But I won't be. I won't be recording my podcast. I won't be making content. I won't be actively engaging in all the things that I feel like kind of make me who I am. And I'm like, what's that gonna feel.

[Issa Rae]

Like, being a mom? Like, you're gonna be a mom full time. So that's still. And I'm gonna go back to judging you. Cause that still doesn't count. I'm glad that you're, like, not gonna try to do everything, and I feel like that's a big step, but, like, that's gonna be. You're not gonna be sleeping, so you also won't be able to.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. Being a mom. And another thing, you portrayed brilliantly on Insecure, just like that new mom struggle Lifendola. And with Tiffany, too.

[Issa Rae]

Oh, Tiffany. Yes. You have no empathy. Got it. Yes, Tiffany. That's true. That's true. She was, like, going through it in the behind the scenes, too. And that was something that we, like, wanted to portray. Like, sometimes your friends, your single friends.

[Brooke Devard]

They don't get it.

[Issa Rae]

They don't get it.

[Brooke Devard]

They don't understand. I remember when my first one was when people were like, hey, can you meet for, like, happy hour? I was like, girl, I'm literally in a diaper right now. Like, I'm not leaving the house. Yeah, but it's hard when you're, like, the first in your friend group to have a child, because people don't really care.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah. My friend, one of my friends is the only one in our friend group to. To have a child. And I think about that frequently, like, how much of an adjustment that's. That's been for her. Like, and I don't envy her.

[Brooke Devard]

It's. It's.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, it's hard.

[Brooke Devard]

It's hard. It's hard. It's, like, really certainly can't be sugarcoated. We have a little lightning round. A little beauty lightning round.

[Issa Rae]

Okay.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. I've been listening to Glorilla's album Non Stop Stop.

[Issa Rae]

That's so good.

[Brooke Devard]

So good. When you are getting ready and you want to, like, get hype, like, what is on the getting ready playlist?

[Issa Rae]

Oh, so much. I have a. A playlist called Issa Gathers, because usually that's like, what I'll play when I'm having a party or something like that.

[Brooke Devard]

Is this on Spotify? Is this public?

[Issa Rae]

It's not public.

[Brooke Devard]

It's private.

[Issa Rae]

I made all my playlists private because I don't wear judgment. But that playlist, I mean, I've definitely added a lot of the gorilla songs on there. I. I was just talking about this. Yeah. I'm just gonna say right now, it is the sexy regular song, the White is Down kind of remix.

[Brooke Devard]

It's so good. I feel like your glam always looks really good. And I know sometimes you work with the same makeup artists frequently, but sometimes you have to work with new people. But the like, signature Issa, like, glowy skin, like nudes, like, you keep it so consistent.

[Issa Rae]

Thank you. Shout out Joanna.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. Joanna Simkins. So talented. But when you are in the glam chair, what do you ask for? Oh, how do people get the iss a recipe?

[Issa Rae]

Who generally asks for like? So it starts with like, I mean, if it's on photo shoots. But me, I. I like to be just more clean. I like to look like myself.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay.

[Issa Rae]

And I, yeah, I get asked a lot what I want, but I'm, I'm very, like I said minimalist. So like, usually the adjectives that are used is just more clean. Glowy skin.

[Brooke Devard]

Clean, glowy skin. And do you give direction on like eyeshadow?

[Issa Rae]

I don't. I'm like, you're the artist here.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. Okay.

[Issa Rae]

I'm your palette. Is that it? Canvas.

[Brooke Devard]

Canvas.

[Issa Rae]

Thank you. I'm your canvas.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. You're going to get your nails done. You're at the nail salon. Do you go to the nail salon or someone comes to you?

[Issa Rae]

Someone comes to me now, but I was just saying literally this morning that I might want to start going to the salon again. Because when they come to you, you.

[Brooke Devard]

Don'T want to go to the salon.

[Issa Rae]

You want them to come to this life. I did go to a salon recently in New York quickly, cuz I needed a pedicure and that was, that was a bad experience cuz it was just. I went to a rank random one and I was like, y'all not even cleaning the bowl. Like I have to ask you to clean the bowl. That's crazy. But no, like, I like the full manicure treatment when they put your hands in the water and all that. And so it's usually quicker. But yes, I work with amazing nail techs.

[Brooke Devard]

Amazing. So what is your go to color, length, shape?

[Issa Rae]

This is mine. Like, I love a little almond.

[Brooke Devard]

Long almond.

[Issa Rae]

Typically, I Like a French tip of some sort with the color. But summer is my bag. And when spring, summer come, I'm a bright nail girl.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. Are you, like, a white toes on vacation girl?

[Issa Rae]

I used to be, but I'm switching it up now. I'm just more like, like, nude or colors. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever the. I want. Yes.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah.

[Issa Rae]

I don't want to be, like, confined.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. Go to fragrance for day.

[Issa Rae]

I use a fragrance by Chloe, but I forgot what it's called.

[Brooke Devard]

What does the bottle look like?

[Issa Rae]

It's, like, ridged and.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. Square.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, I dropped it on my foot one time. That hurt. It's not square. It's circular.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, yeah, circular. Okay. I'll have to look up which one that is.

[Issa Rae]

Y. Yeah, it's. It's pretty heavy.

[Brooke Devard]

And do you have a nighttime scent?

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, Rihanna's fenty scent in the. The brown bottle. Yeah.

[Brooke Devard]

It's very intoxicating. There's something in it that's, like, addictive.

[Issa Rae]

Yes, there's. I've. Yes, I've gotten some comments when I wear that. I'm like, oh, I feel like Rihanna.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay. Biggest beauty splurge. Something that you'll spend a lot of money on.

[Issa Rae]

Skincare products, for sure.

[Brooke Devard]

Skincare.

[Issa Rae]

Even just to try it. If it's. I'm dumb. Where I'm like, oh, this is expensive. It must be good. And honestly, I'm trying to get, like, some of these Korean skincare products. Products. I've seen them like. Like that. There's, like, the culture of great skin over there. It matters and it's clearly working. But, yeah, I will splurge on, like, Dr. Stern products are also amazing. And the fact that they like Target dark skin is. Is great. I'll splurge on those.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. And you know, she worked with Angela Bassett on the darker skin tones line.

[Issa Rae]

She did, she did.

[Brooke Devard]

Which for me was the seal of approval I needed to invest.

[Issa Rae]

I did not know that.

[Brooke Devard]

I've interviewed Dr. Sturm on the show before, and. And, yeah, she. Because I was like, what? You know she's a white German woman.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah, I know. I saw her one time and I was like, oh, from a distance. She was just kicking her out of, like, a Soho house in London. I was like, oh, that's you.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah. She's kind of a vibe. She's cool.

[Issa Rae]

She is.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah, she's cool.

[Issa Rae]

She's with her daughters. I didn't want to approach her.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes. Day off. You're at home. You're. You're one. You're one day off. You lie yourself in the 70s. What are you putting on? Are you doing any makeup whatsoever? Are you just doing sunscreen and sweatpants? Like, what is your, like, day off?

[Issa Rae]

You make up my morning skincare, which I'm excited to do in. Just, like, lounging.

[Brooke Devard]

Like, did you wear loungewear?

[Issa Rae]

What is lounge wear? Beyond sweats? Are you, like, you're like, do you wear fancy, like, pajamas?

[Brooke Devard]

I. I love. I love, like, a nice, like, loungewear moment.

[Issa Rae]

I like it when I'm away. When I'm away, I will pack, purposely pack, like, whatever, a matching set for something to lounge in. But at home, no, I love being raggedy. It's like, like, I just get to be gross and my hair is a mess. But my, you know, like, again, I'm still. I'm not ashy, but I'm just, like, not.

[Brooke Devard]

Yes.

[Issa Rae]

Trying.

[Brooke Devard]

You don't have to think about it at all.

[Issa Rae]

And it's just. There's something nice about being off and going to the bathroom and seeing yourself in the mirror and being like, oh, you know, like, oh, God, I'm glad nobody's going to see me today. And it almost forces me home, you know, and. And in some ways makes me more productive, too.

[Brooke Devard]

Yeah, I get that. I get that. Final question. When do you feel most beautiful?

[Issa Rae]

When do I feel most beautiful? When I'm fully myself. Honestly? Yeah. I feel most beautiful when I'm in my element, being myself, surrounded by people and the life that I've curated.

[Brooke Devard]

That's beautiful. I love that. Thank you so much, Issa. This was such a pleasure.

[Issa Rae]

It was such a great time talking to you. You're amazing.

[Brooke Devard]

Amazing. Thank you. Thank you. All right, that was my conversation with Issa Rae. She is one more beautiful in person than I could have ever imagined. Just like the skin, the glow. But she is so genuinely funny. I love that conversation so much. I learned so much. I love that she embraces everything about who she is. I'm walking away from this conversation feeling so nourished. This is such a beautiful way to close out Naked Beauty. It's been an incredible, incredible year. We just have one more episode left for 2024, but this was certainly a career highlight for me. So thank you all for your support, for listening, for sharing the show. I could not do any of this without you.

[C]

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