Law Roach on Cultivating Confidence

Summary

Naked Beauty Podcast Episode Summary: Law Roach on Cultivating Confidence

Host: Brooke DeVard Ozaydinli
Guest: Law Roach, Stylist and Image Architect
Release Date: October 7, 2024
Title: "Law Roach on Cultivating Confidence"

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1. Introduction and Background of Law Roach

Brooke DeVard welcomes Law Roach, referred to as "the image architect himself," highlighting his significant impact on the fashion and entertainment industries. Law Roach is celebrated for transforming celebrities into fashion icons, including working with Zendaya, Celine Dion, Megan Thee Stallion, and Anya Taylor-Joy. Notably, he was the first African American featured on the Hollywood Reporter's "Most Powerful Stylist" issue and received the CFDA's first Stylist Award in 2022 for his innovative contributions (02:03).

Notable Quote:

"He was fun fact, you know, and so, like, this is kind of a full circle moment, and this is like everything happens in its own divine timing." — Law Roach ([00:50])

2. Skincare Segment Sponsored by Shiseido Ginza Tokyo

Before diving into the main conversation, Brooke and Sir John discuss the importance of a diligent skincare routine, emphasizing nighttime care. They highlight Shiseido's Benefiance Wrinkle Smoothing Eye Cream, praising its effectiveness and texture.

Notable Quotes:

"Your pores are actually open, ingesting so much during that time." — Shiseido Representative ([03:37])

"If you wake up one morning and you're just not feeling it. Because we're all going to do that, right?" — Sir John on using a power piece ([29:29])

3. Law Roach’s Book and Personal Journey

Brooke congratulates Law on his newly released book, "How to Build a Fashion Icon," which delves into his career and the crucial role of confidence in achieving success. Law shares insights from his book, discussing his transition from styling others to focusing on his own personal brand and self-love journey.

Notable Quotes:

"One of the things I talk about in the book is not being afraid to start over." — Law Roach ([08:07])

"When I retire and I start writing a book, it forced me to see myself in a different perspective." — Sir John ([14:47])

4. The Importance of Confidence and Self-Love

Law and Sir John explore the concept of confidence, emphasizing that self-love is a continuous habit akin to exercise. Law reflects on personal moments that challenged his self-perception, such as feeling put on a pedestal and recognizing selfish behaviors.

Notable Quotes:

"You can only take yourself wherever you're going." — Law Roach ([17:56])

"I felt like I was partially walking away from this huge career was just me trying to start over and figure something out." — Law Roach ([11:06])

5. Creative Process and Image Architecture

Law Roach describes his creative process as both technical and visionary. He likens himself to an architect, meticulously researching a client's past styles and crafting a comprehensive image blueprint. His ability to visualize complete looks, including hair, makeup, and outfits, sets him apart in the industry.

Notable Quotes:

"I am a dreamer, and I have this weird ability to see everything once it's completed." — Sir John ([18:19])

"Everything I do is for the culture." — Law Roach ([39:27])

6. Relationships, Loyalty, and Professional Integrity

The discussion shifts to the dynamics of professional relationships, particularly Law's long-standing collaboration with Zendaya. Law emphasizes mutual respect, loyalty, and maintaining boundaries, highlighting how Zendaya advocates for his presence in every room and respects his expertise.

Notable Quotes:

"She made people respect me and respect my opinion." — Sir John on Zendaya ([22:55])

"We fight over clothes and, like, you know." — Sir John ([25:15])

7. Personal Style and Branding

Brooke and Law delve into the significance of personal branding. Law Roach shares his philosophy on authenticity, emphasizing that being true to oneself is the cornerstone of a powerful personal brand. He discusses trademarking the term "Image Architect" to protect his unique identity in the industry.

Notable Quotes:

"Being authentically myself." — Sir John ([21:26])

"If you buy it, live in it." — Sir John on cultivating personal style ([30:06])

8. Self-Love, Mental Health, and Breaking Generational Patterns

Law opens up about his self-love journey and the importance of gratitude. He discusses breaking unhealthy generational patterns, such as his mother’s struggles with depression and alcohol, by practicing self-reflection and developing personal coping mechanisms without formal therapy.

Notable Quotes:

"Self love and happiness are habits and they have to continually be worked on." — Sir John ([14:14])

"I do a lot of self reflecting and a lot of self healing." — Sir John ([33:06])

9. Inspirational Influences and Cultural Impact

Law talks about influential figures like Andre Jay and Ms. J, whose bold expressions of style and presence inspired his creative vision. He underscores his commitment to positively impacting the culture through his work, ensuring that his contributions benefit the broader community.

Notable Quotes:

"Everything I do is for the culture. Everybody knows that." — Sir John ([39:27])

"It's really for the culture, man." — Law Roach ([38:56])

10. Listener Questions and Lightning Round

In the final segment, Law answers listener-submitted questions covering topics such as his skincare essentials, favorite fragrances, experiences styling pregnant clients, and his grandmother’s influence on his work.

Notable Quotes:

"I have a soothing anxiety for pregnant women for some reason." — Sir John ([40:33])

"What makes you feel most beautiful? When I'm at my house in Georgia... the peace makes me feel the most beautiful." — Sir John ([43:43])

11. Conclusion and Final Insights

Brooke and Law wrap up the episode by reflecting on the importance of dedication, gratitude, and authenticity in building a successful personal brand. They emphasize that Law Roach's intentional work and commitment to self-growth are key takeaways for listeners aspiring to cultivate their own confidence and style.

Notable Quotes:

"You just have to be so obsessed with the thing, the beauty of what you do that propels you forward." — Law Roach ([45:25])

"Being thankful and really empowered by what you have now." — Law Roach ([46:54])

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Key Takeaways:

• Confidence and Self-Love: Essential for personal and professional growth, requiring continuous effort and self-reflection.
• Authenticity in Branding: Staying true to oneself fosters a genuine and powerful personal brand.
• Creative Process: Combining technical research with visionary creativity leads to impactful image creation.
• Professional Relationships: Mutual respect and loyalty are foundational for successful collaborations.
• Cultural Impact: Contributions to culture through authentic and intentional work can inspire and empower others.
• Mental Health: Self-healing and gratitude practices are vital for overcoming personal challenges and maintaining well-being.

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Notable Moments:

• Law Roach’s candid reflections on his personal struggles and journey to self-love.
• The emphasis on using fashion and beauty as tools for expressing identity and fostering confidence.
• Inspirational stories about his collaborations with Zendaya and the impact of loyal professional relationships.
• Practical advice for aspiring stylists and creatives on branding, education, and career progression.

This episode of Naked Beauty offers a deep dive into Law Roach's philosophy on confidence, authenticity, and the intertwining of personal growth with professional excellence. It's a valuable listen for anyone interested in the nexus of beauty, fashion, and self-empowerment.

Transcript

[Brooke Devart]

Hello.

[Sir John]

Hello.

[Brooke Devart]

It's Brooke Devart.

[Law Roach]

Hey. And it's Sir John.

[Brooke Devart]

And you're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. And have we got an amazing guest today.

[Law Roach]

Oh, yes.

[Brooke Devart]

The icon behind the icons.

[Law Roach]

Listen, guys, it's going down. It's going down. Basement. Right now we have Law Roach. Law Roach, the one in the building. The image architect himself.

[Brooke Devart]

Guys, and I feel like in our very first meeting, when we talked about. Okay, we want to interview people that are so impactful to the culture. Law was always very high on our list.

[Law Roach]

He was in our deck.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes, he was.

[Law Roach]

He was fun fact, you know, and so, like, this is kind of a full circle moment, and this is like everything happens in its own divine timing.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Law Roach]

And so we just happen to be sitting down with him the day after the book was released.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. Hold up. The book. How to Build a Fashion Icon.

[Law Roach]

You have to get this. I read this. I have notes. You see all the notes, and I know that we've been vibing. You went through this before I even got this.

[Brooke Devart]

Oh, I ate this book up. Because you know what? It's such a good book because it tells the story of Law's career, but it also explains how key confidence is to having the career you want. It's not just about doing the things you have to believe in yourself to an almost delusional degree, which we're going to talk to him about. But I want to get into his bio for people that aren't familiar. Stylist and image architect Law Roach undeniably transformed celebrities into fashion icons. Roach grew up in the south side of Chicago and embarked on his career as a vintage broker, collecting and curating vintage pieces at his boutique, Deliciously Vintage. He eventually went on to meet and work with Zendaya, a creative partnership he credits with helping him break into the notoriously gatekept world of fashion. Law has gone on to style everyone from Celine Dion to Megan the Stallion to Anya Taylor, Joy Hunter Schaefer. I mean, he's done some incredible, incredible, incredible look. Wow. Roach was the first African American on the COVID of the Hollywood Reporter's Most Powerful Stylist issue.

[Law Roach]

Oh, let's go.

[Brooke Devart]

In 2022, Roach received the first Stylist award from the Council of Fashion Designers of America, cfda, for his innovative work in the fashion industry. Law continues to conquer cultural limitations, making revolutionary strides for people of color within both the fashion and entertainment industries. And we are so excited to have him as our guest today. Today.

[Law Roach]

I can't wait. Listen, we're gonna dive right on in.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Law Roach]

Right on in.

[Brooke Devart]

Let's get into it.

[Law Roach]

Let's go.

[Brooke Devart]

This special segment is presented by Shiseido Ginza Tokyo and Acast Creative. I'm joined by Sir John, and we have to talk about how important it is to have a good skincare routine. I love my nighttime skincare routine. It's like, set up in my bathroom. I know it's going to happen every night, come hell or high water. Are you diligent about having a routine?

[Unknown]

Oh, my God. So first of all, can we backtrack? Do you always, always, always, always.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

Okay.

[Law Roach]

How?

[Brooke Devart]

It's like my sanity. Okay.

[Law Roach]

You're making me sweat here.

[Unknown]

Because my PM regime is often overlooked, I would say.

[Law Roach]

And I'm not proud of it because.

[Unknown]

I always talk about.

[Law Roach]

That's the time.

[Unknown]

If you're gonna spend time working on the dermis, you know, and looking for repair, looking for cell turnover, it's going to be in the pm. So I really applaud you for that.

[Brooke Devart]

I'm so happy you brought that up. Because your skin does so much work at night. So I feel like when you put on really great products like the Benefiance eye cream, which we're going to get into, it's really beneficial. Like those eight hours you're in bed, it's working on repairing your skin. So, yes, I love a good nighttime routine.

[Unknown]

Your pores are actually open, ingesting so much during that time.

[Sir John]

So.

[Unknown]

And that's what people don't realize. It's like they were like Hungry Pac Man. That's why your night creams are so much heavier and more emollient, because your skin actually can use that richness as we sleep, as our circadian rhythm puts us down.

[Brooke Devart]

Exactly. And I do think that having an eye cream is such an important part of a nighttime routine. It's such a delicate, specific area. Like, yes, of course, you can use some moisturizers as eye creams, but I love having a dedicated eye cream that's been formulated to address specific signs of aging around the eyes.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I mean, Brooke, you have to realize that the eye cream is eye cream because the molecules are smaller than moisturizer. So your moisturizer is great, but it's not going to hydrate the eyes or repair or lift in the way an eye cream is designed to. In general.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. And let me just brag about Shiseido a little bit. Over 150 years of research, they have 2,500 patents and have done 28,000 clinical trials. Shiseido is one of those companies that focuses on Science and high quality skin care. And it's led them to developing the Benefiance Wrinkle Smoothing eye cream, which is one of the top selling eye creams in the U.S. oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

So it's a powerhouse, honestly, that addresses five different types of eye area Aging.

[Law Roach]

I don't want to say aging.

[Unknown]

We're pro age.

[Law Roach]

When we're becoming more mature, we do.

[Unknown]

Have concerns like wrinkles, inner corner under eye, crow's feet, around the frown lines, you know, dark circles and puffiness. And the cool thing about Benefion's Eye Wrinkle Smoothing eye cream is that, honestly, it really does address them all. And the cool thing also is I've been loving Shiseido as a brand all of my career. I've been using them literally since back in the day. Back in the day.

[Law Roach]

So many trips.

[Unknown]

I remember they took me to Chile for a beautiful launch of a foundation. It was such an amazing, amazing time. But I love the brand. I love the brand.

[Brooke Devart]

I think they, I think it's one of those skincare brands that really invests in quality and also that focuses on doing these kind of clinical trials or doing these tests. So I know that for this eye cream specific, they did a test of 110 people and 96% of them saw reduced wrinkles and diminished dark circles in just seven days of use. So, you know, they put the product out there, but they make sure they test it as well.

[Unknown]

Oh yeah, that's serious. Seven days is not bad.

[Brooke Devart]

Oh my gosh, talk about quick results. And don't you just love the texture of this eye cream? It's just like so lush. I feel like it's beautiful to layer makeup over as well.

[Unknown]

Oh my God. It's like a little souffle. And you know what the cool thing is? So. Well, I have a little hack. So in terms of, you know how to apply concealer, I only apply concealer to skin that's wet for migraine. So I don't let it dry. I don't care if the client says, oh, I put my eye cream or my moisturizer on an hour ago. No, we want the skin to be actually wet. And then it adheres in such an organic way, it looks like it's airbrushed on. So that's my concealer hack. And I also like to use a fluffy brush, like a fluffy eyeshadow brush to apply concealer because it gives you like this lifting, lifting effect.

[Brooke Devart]

Well, well, we want all of the naked beauty listeners to discover the reasons why people who have tried The Benefiance Wrinkle Smoothing Eye Cream. Love it. From the over 2000 reviews on Ulta.com Fine Shiseido Benefiance Wrinkle Smoothing Eye Cream at an Ulta near you. Thank you for listening to this segment, brought to you in partnership with Shiseido Ginza Tokyo and Acast Creative. And let's get into today's conversation. Welcome to Naked Beauty.

[Sir John]

Thank you. Welcome, welcome.

[Brooke Devart]

We're very excited and congratulations on the book. Everyone got their copies in the mail yesterday, so it's finally out into the world.

[Law Roach]

And audiobooks, too, I've been listening to for the last 24 hours.

[Brooke Devart]

I need the audiobook. Would you ever start a podcast?

[Sir John]

I'm not sure. I think you should. I don't know because I don't know if I'll have something to talk about that much. I know you bring other people and talk about what they have going on, but I think I might just kind of, like, doze off of something during the interview.

[Brooke Devart]

But I love your speaking voice and your cadence.

[Sir John]

Really?

[Brooke Devart]

I learned so much about you reading this book. One of the things I learned, and I shouldn't have been surprised, but you have degrees in business with a concentration in marketing psychology.

[Sir John]

Yes.

[Brooke Devart]

There is a lot that goes into creating an image. So you've created images and you've created icons out of other people, but now you're the star, you're the talent. What's it like creating for yourself versus other people?

[Sir John]

You know, to be quite honest, I'm still trying to figure me out, and I think that's okay. I think one of the things I talk about in the book is not being afraid to start over. And for me, walking away, or partially walking away, as the people like to say, from like, this huge career was just me trying to start over and figure something out. Because for so long I had been just of service to people. Right. I think people forget that although our jobs, including makeup and hair, we are in the service industry. Right. We are no different from the housekeeper or the nanny or the chef. Right. If they call, we come. And what I'm learning now is how to be of service to myself and to be of service to people in a different way. And that's what sprouted the book. Because if I had so many of these women, these famous, beautiful, gorgeous women say that part of what they got for me is confidence. I want to take that, bottle it up, and give it to the everyday person.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. Yes.

[Law Roach]

You know what's wild, is that being in this business, in this space, you know, working behind the scenes, often talent or their publicist, and the teams every. They want you to know your place, you know, and so I look at you now and you're breaking this mold on what it can be. Do you ever hear, like, the people thinking, why does he think he's a celebrity? Or why does this publicist feel like they need to address you as talent as well?

[Sir John]

Yeah, I think it's a lot of people with. There have been some stories written about me to that point. Everything that's happening to me is a product and a byproduct, I should say, of the work. Right. I never set out. I never set out to become this. I knew that I wanted an exit strategy when I got into the industry, but all my successes outside of styling is just byproducts of the work. And even when I'm on the carpet with Zendaya and we're taking pictures together, that's because she invited me into that space.

[Law Roach]

Amen.

[Sir John]

You know, when I first got in, and probably you, too, you didn't take pictures with your clients. You didn't, you know, that was a. No, no, you didn't do that. You were definitely behind the scenes, almost.

[Law Roach]

Unknown, seen and not heard.

[Sir John]

And when that started to happen, I was invited by her into that space. She used to reach her hand out and come take a picture with me. And I do think that a lot of people find who I am now. They have a little bit of resentfulness to that. But, yeah, I mean, I just, again, I didn't want to carry garment bags and go to a million fitness every day forever.

[Law Roach]

And so I even look at how, you know, the relationships matter and they mean so much. I read in the book how Celine, you know, she was on set and you saw something that wasn't going right, and she gave you more agency on that set to completely pull forward, you know, and hold space for yourself. And so often you still have to battle the teams, if you will, without the support of talent.

[Sir John]

What's the part that made me leave? You know, the gatekeepers and people don't understand when you walk into a room with a client, you walk into that room with 100 decision makers or what they think they are. You know what I mean? It's the agent, the manager, the publicist, the husband, the wife, sometimes the dog, the daughter. You know, it's all these things, and you have to go in and you almost have to prove yourself to everyone. And for me, you know, I felt like I had done all these things and broke all these Glass ceilings and opened all these doors. And it would still be that one person on somebody's team that, you know, would say, well, you know, I don't like the way he did that, or I don't like that for the sake of, you know, and it's just so tough. And so I got to a point where I also felt like I just didn't need it anymore because my career can only get bigger by just doing more work, and I didn't want to do more work. You know what I mean? It's like there's nowhere else to go.

[Brooke Devart]

Right.

[Law Roach]

I want to push you because earlier you said that, you know, you got here and we all know you because of the work, But I feel like. And this is just a contrary opinion, we know you also because of Law. Like, you know, like, there are a lot of stylists, there are a lot of makeup artists, but it takes something, someone that's been forged. You know, as I read the book, I didn't know so much about your childhood and coming up, and you've always been Law.

[Sir John]

Yeah.

[Law Roach]

You know, and so. And I even look at your name. You know, how basically you say in the book how the name, you had to have confidence at a young age to carry a big name. Yeah, Law is a serious name to be carrying around.

[Sir John]

No, it's not the law, it's Roach. What's the serious name to be carried?

[Law Roach]

But both, though.

[Sir John]

Yeah, but it was like I had to have confidence because I feel like I was definitely born queer. I've always been a very feminine boy, and I always had the last name Roach. So you can imagine as a child, you know, and we moved around a lot. So, you know, you go to a school in Chicago and teacher's like, oh, we have a new student, you know, Laura. And it's like, oh, you gay Roach. You know what I mean? Like, I told my team a story the other day. I think I was in maybe like the third grade, and this boy kept saying. He was like, tomorrow, I'm gonna bring some rain and I'm gonna kill you. And I was so scared. But, you know, the things that could have broken me, you know, being gay very early on, having a last name Roach my entire life, those things could have really broken me. Right. But instead, they made me stronger. Because what my grandfather used to say is that nobody will ever forget your name. And he was right. Like, you know, if someone says my name, people are like, oh, I know that name. Or now I know exactly who that is. It's kind of like your name, sir. And so it's like the things that I thought were difficult for me actually were powerful.

[Law Roach]

Amen.

[Sir John]

They were really powerful that, you know, that God put me in this body and made me the way I am and that, you know, I inherited that last name.

[Law Roach]

I love that.

[Brooke Devart]

I want to hear more about your confidence and self love journey.

[Sir John]

Yeah.

[Brooke Devart]

Do you feel like you are 100% there yet in terms of self love and how have you been able to get there?

[Sir John]

Well, I think self love and happiness are habits and they have to continually be worked on, just like exercise. Right. I love that, you know, health and everything. It's a habit that you have to keep working on. But I will say that I am the happiest that I've ever been in my life and experiencing pure joy. I don't think I've ever had it I've ever felt like that before. Because when I retire and I start writing a book, it forced me to see myself in a different perspective and it forced me to see things about myself that I didn't like.

[Brooke Devart]

What were you seeing about yourself that you didn't like?

[Sir John]

A couple things. When you start to work at a certain caliber, people put you on a pedestal. And Sir John knows me and people who knows me, like, I'm not that at all. Like, I'm gonna walk in and I'm gonna be the realest bitch to come in the room. You know what I mean? Like, and that's just who I am. But I think you start to be put on this pedestal that I never asked to be put on. Like, I don't wanna be up here. I wanna be down here with the people. Right. So I noticed that. I started to buy into that, that Law Roach, the image architect. Law Roach, the thing, you know what I mean? I started to buy into that. And also there's points I was just. Had just become so selfish. And I talk about that in the book. When my uncle died and my cousin called me to make the funeral arrangements and she, you know, she called me, said, well, the funeral's gonna be on Friday and such. And I had a fitting and I said, well, can you move it to Sunday because I have something to do. And for me to ask my cousin, who was grieving the death of her father to change the date of a funeral to accommodate me is probably one of the most selfish acts that I could have ever done.

[Law Roach]

Did you realize it in the moment?

[Sir John]

I didn't realize it in the moment. I realized that when I was writing a book and I was Just like going through just memories and I was trying to pulling everything that had happened over the last couple years. And you know, I was doing so much self reflecting because I was at my house in Georgia and by myself and just taking walks and figuring out the things that I was grateful for and figuring out the things about myself that I would like to change. And that story came to me and I was just like, that was so fucking selfish. That was so selfish.

[Law Roach]

Doing the work.

[Sir John]

Yeah.

[Brooke Devart]

So in terms of exercises for self love, what do you do to bring that into your day to day life?

[Sir John]

It's gratitude for me. It's always being grateful for every single thing that you have and also for the things that you don't have is the important part being grateful for the opportunities that you didn't get. Because what that for me, that's the universe just moving things out of the way. And I think Oprah said that too in an interview. And just being able to be grateful for that and saying that wasn't for me. I've had some struggles with my weight over the last year and just being patient. Like, you know what? It's fine. I had like a really tough struggle with my skin and it was just, I'm like, you know what? It's fine. It's fine. And it's like I gained weight because of the skin. I'm like, okay, do you want a small body and fucked up skin or you know, gray skin and a bigger body right now? You know what I mean? Being okay.

[Brooke Devart]

You know what I mean?

[Sir John]

It's like just learning yourself, learning to love yourself in the body you're in and the situation you're in. And I think when you get to that place, everything starts to heal and balance out.

[Law Roach]

Does the healing come first? Because sometimes you feel like, okay, once I get this done or once I feel like this, I'm gonna be more chill. But actually you gotta find that feeling or gotta find that space first. Right.

[Sir John]

Cause you only take you wherever you're going.

[Law Roach]

Come on now.

[Sir John]

That's it. You know what I mean? You can only take. You only take yourself. So you have to learn how to find it at, at the present moment and be present in it.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Law Roach]

Wow.

[Brooke Devart]

It seems that your creative process is very almost spiritual to a degree because you talk in the book a lot about having visions. Like you had a dream or you would come to Megan the stallion when you wanted her to wear her natural hair. I had a dream that you were wearing your hair like this. And you talk about creating moments, not looks. Yeah, what is your creative process when you are first starting with a client?

[Sir John]

The creative process where there's a technical process, and the technical process is where the title Image Architect comes in at. But the creative process is I am a dreamer, and I have this weird ability to see everything once it's completed. Like, I can see what the hair should be, the makeup, what the outfit looks like, and sometimes I can even imagine what the press would be the next day.

[Brooke Devart]

Wow.

[Sir John]

And like Zendaya say all the time, like, we're being offended, and she'll leave and she's like, just dream about it.

[Brooke Devart]

Wow.

[Sir John]

As I've been able to have that, because I think a lot of. Maybe even I don't know if it's just cancers, but I am an empath.

[Law Roach]

Yes.

[Sir John]

And. And. And once I'm connected to somebody or something, then I'm able to do it. But the technical part of it is that when I get a client, or, you know, a client calls myself, and my team will go and look at every single thing they ever worn. I mean, like, going back 10 years, whatever, looking at every single thing, and try to look at the pictures and the images or watch them on video and try to figure out if there was something wrong. You know, you can always tell. Like, you could tell the nonverbal cues. Right. Like if you. On a carpet, if you see somebody on the carpet and they're doing that and they're adjusting, something's wrong. Right?

[Brooke Devart]

Yeah. But also your psychology degree. Yeah, Right.

[Sir John]

That's brought that in. I'm like, oh, well, you wore this yellow dress to this award show, and. And you kept, like, nudging at it and doing this, and it was like, oh, you know, I really didn't like that dress, and I didn't like the way it fell. And it would just be so amazed that I would take enough time to realize that.

[Brooke Devart]

Right.

[Law Roach]

So the research guys, the research. You're obsessed with research.

[Sir John]

Yeah. And that's exactly what an architect does. If you build in a house, what the architect would come out first is to survey the land. Right.

[Law Roach]

Come on, now.

[Sir John]

And to look at what's there already and start to build a blueprint of what it is that you're trying to create. And I would do the same. And, you know, and then just like an architect, they would call in a contractor and a contractor call in the windows and the electricity and the, you know, plumbing and all that. And for me, that was the clothes and accessories, hair and makeup. So when I start to look at the parallels between the two I'm like, oh, I'm an architect and I'm only doing it for people's images.

[Law Roach]

Come on now.

[Sir John]

Did I trademark.

[Law Roach]

Is that how it was born?

[Sir John]

I trademarked it.

[Law Roach]

Okay?

[Sir John]

So that's why the book says no self confidence from the world's only image architect. Because I hold the trademark.

[Law Roach]

Come on now.

[Sir John]

And I will send a cease and justifs letter. So don't fuck with me, guys.

[Law Roach]

He actually will send a cease after. He might actually roll up to somebody in a party if they start using it.

[Sir John]

I will. And early on, I did send a bunch of them, to be quite honest, because so now you see people and they'll say fashion architect or style architect because they tried to use my term and I threatened to sue them.

[Law Roach]

So speaking of, like, relationships, when it comes to relationships, do you feel that I know how they look at us, but do you have a checklist for the people who you want to work with? I believe in codes, like, you know, hood code. I grew up in New York, you know, and you're from Chicago. And I still have the same codes that I apply to my friends or my clients or my agents or my managers. What code is the law code?

[Sir John]

Well, for me, it's just being. Always being authentically myself.

[Law Roach]

Okay.

[Sir John]

And I think that's what helped me be successful is because, you know, I'm from Chicago. I have a very distinct regional dialect. Right. I say I talk a certain type of way, I move a certain type of way. And when I figured out that. That like, being authentically me.

[Law Roach]

Yes.

[Sir John]

Because I didn't. Before me, I didn't exist, you know?

[Law Roach]

No.

[Sir John]

For real, in the landscape of what I do, there just wasn't anybody like me. And I never really played the game of, like, you know what I mean? I never played the game like, oh, let's go have coffee and all that. I just kind of let the work speak for myself. But I think just my code, if I'm answering the question correctly, is just to always remain true to who I am. And I've never had a wish list of clients ever. Like, I've always really believed that the universe will put someone's in your life and vice versa. Exactly when it's supposed to happen. And I would say 90% of everybody I've ever worked with, it was. I met them at an event or they DMed me, or, you know, we saw each other on a plane, you know, and it was all those type of things. So I just never had to kind of play the Hollywood shuffle.

[Law Roach]

Yeah. What does Loyalty look like for you, Zendaya, Unpack that for us. For younger creatives who are coming up and they want to understand. How do I understand if this person respects my art or my career or who I am?

[Sir John]

No. Even as a young girl, she has always advocated me to be in every room. Every room. Like, it would be unheard of that someone would go to their agent to talk about deals and the stylist would be there. She was a young girl. And, you know, and you'll be in these rooms with these. Sitting across from all these people. And, you know, they would talk and I would make a point and they would almost try to make me feel invisible. And she was just like, what did you say again? Law. You know, and she. And she made people respect me and respect my opinion. And she would also, you know, they would call, they would do something, they would circumvent me and go around and she'd be like, well, what did Law say? You know, and because she know, just as loyal she is to me, I am just as loyal to her, and I have protected her and been her protector and her big brother and her confidant and her closest collaborator since 2011. You know what I mean? And so when people ask me, what does loyalty look like, that's the only thing that I can think of. And also, you know, you work with people and they tell you they love you, but they don't want you to live next door to them.

[Law Roach]

Come on.

[Sir John]

You know what I mean? They could love you as long as you live in, you know, in wherever you living and they living wherever they living. And she's never been like that. You know, she's always made sure that I was taken care of financially.

[Law Roach]

Oh, yeah.

[Sir John]

You know, people would be like, oh, the rates are too high. And she said, well, you gotta pay me the rate.

[Brooke Devart]

Right.

[Sir John]

You know, and so I think to ultimately show people that you care about them, you have to be able to change their financial situation. And that's what she's done for me.

[Law Roach]

Wow. And she's never been afraid of you as a star, like your talent, Right. Sometimes that kind of scares.

[Sir John]

No, no, no, no. She thinks it's hilarious.

[Law Roach]

Other clients, she thinks this.

[Brooke Devart]

She.

[Sir John]

She really thinks it's so funny. She think every time she like, she like you. So stupid.

[Brooke Devart]

And do you all still have fun together creating these looks as, you know, you've been working together since 2011. It seems like it's fun. I see the work and it looks so joyous.

[Sir John]

No, it is fun.

[Brooke Devart]

It's still Fun.

[Sir John]

It's also because I know my boundaries as well. Like, at the end of the day, she's still my boss.

[Brooke Devart]

Right.

[Sir John]

And I know that, and I respect her in that way, but. And we fight over clothes and, like, you know.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

It's almost really a perfect. As close to a perfect relationship as possible.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

I love that. Yeah. We fight, like, people for a long time thought, like, oh, whatever I tell her to wear or tell her to do is what she gonna do. And it is far from that. But we would literally fight, and we'll fight in front of people, and people would be so confused. Like, we had a. We were doing a shoot and we had a whole fight, and, like, everybody in the room was so quiet. And then we looked at everybody was like, it's okay. This is just what we do.

[Brooke Devart]

This is what we do.

[Sir John]

You know? And there's a clip on my Instagram when we were doing the Tommy show, and I was like, fix your energy. Fix your energy.

[Law Roach]

Oh, yeah, I saw that.

[Sir John]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Law Roach]

Was this the first year or second year?

[Sir John]

That was the second first year.

[Law Roach]

Okay. And I was blessed to. You brought me in on the.

[Sir John]

Yeah, on the second one.

[Law Roach]

Thank you.

[Sir John]

But it's like, that's just. That's true love, right?

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

Yeah.

[Brooke Devart]

I want to read a quote from your book. What makes Zendaya, Zendaya and Celine. Celine is their ferocity, their fearlessness, their unabashed confidence in themselves. Their clothes are an extension of who they are, a vehicle through which they can channel their power, vision, and values. Ultimately, I've built a career on helping clients find themselves, so I think that really captures the power of fashion and beauty as a vehicle to excel. Express who you are. How do people use clothing or a beauty look to better articulate how they want the world to see them?

[Sir John]

Yeah. I think, as we all know, people can see you. We are all visuals. Right. And sometimes people see the visual before anything else. So before you get to open your mouth and express yourself at all, people are already looking at you, you know, as soon as you walk in a room. And I think we sometimes forget how powerful clothes are to express that. Right. It's almost everything, in a way, because you chose to wear what you wore today, Sir John. You chose to wear what you wore today because you knew that it would. It's not a bad choice.

[Law Roach]

No, babe, I know it's not a bad choice. I know it's not. You did good.

[Sir John]

You did good. But we all get up and we check. Choose it because we know it's Gonna give us a certain type of feeling.

[Law Roach]

Feeling.

[Sir John]

Right. And the feeling is what helps us get through the day. Right. It's not actually the look. It's the feeling that the look gives you. That gives you the power to go into this world. Because we live in a crazy world.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

And I always like to tell a story of, you know, we've all been to New York, we all saw that woman. And she has on whatever, right? She has yellow hair and pink lipstick and a green shirt and a blue shoe, a red shoe. And she has all these things. And we look at her and we like, she's fucking crazy. But then if you start to really look at her and think about it, she put that on knowing that people were gonna either laugh at her or laugh with her.

[Law Roach]

Yes.

[Sir John]

But she still wore it. And so then when you start to unpack that, you like, shit, should I afford more colors today? Right. And it's like she wore that because that helps her evoke this amount of confidence to get through the world and to, you know, to be able to do something and have everybody looking at you and staring at you and still say, fuck you. This was my choice, and this is what makes me happy. Is the ultimate level of confidence.

[Law Roach]

Beauty is a feeling. Like style is a feeling. And you don't even know that. You touching on mental health, like, this is basically. I didn't even. I always thought, you know, because beauty is so emotional. But fashion or style is. Is a way we want to nurture ourselves in some way too.

[Sir John]

Yeah, It's. It's the way you protect yourself as well. It's the way you protect yourself. And I talk about having a power piece, right? It's that one thing for me is a white button down shirt. It's like no matter what I have to do, who I have to meet, if I put on a crisp white button down shirt, it automatically takes me to this feeling of power. I always feel put together. I don't have to think about it. I know exactly how I'm gonna look. I know exactly how I'm gonna feel. You know, I can roll the sleeves, pop the collar, you know, throw on a nice whatever, and I know exactly how I feel and I don't have to worry about it. And when I was working a lot, that became my uniform because I wasn't in front. But I also didn't feel invisible.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

Right. And so I think it's important for us to all recognize what our power piece is. So it might be addressed like that, you know, every angle you like My ass look good, boobs look good. You know, everything look right. And don't be afraid to go back to that. If you wake up one morning and you just not feeling it. Because we're all going to do that, right?

[Brooke Devart]

We're human.

[Sir John]

If you're not feeling it, put that power piece on there. It is automatically going to transport you to a better place and a better feeling.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. I'm so happy you talk about outfit repeating. Because I think people live in this world where they're like, I've worn it. Once people have seen me in it, I'm done. But how you really cultivate personal style is by repeating pieces.

[Sir John]

Hate that culture that we moved into, especially once you posted it.

[Brooke Devart]

Right.

[Sir John]

It's just so stupid. It's like my mother had that. She had the same black dress. She wore it to every wedding, funeral, special occasions, because she knew exactly how it made her look and how it made her feel. And we've got so caught up in this social media craze that, oh, you've already posted that you could never wear. I wear my clothes. First of all. Clothes are such an investment. And especially the things I love because I say, like, if you go into a store and you like it, try it on.

[Law Roach]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

If you love it, buy it. If you buy it, live in it.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

Yeah. I wear my clothes, Okay? I wear my clothes and I have a lot of clothes.

[Law Roach]

I know you got a lot bags.

[Brooke Devart]

And a lot of bags.

[Law Roach]

I was gonna say.

[Brooke Devart]

I was gonna say the baggage.

[Sir John]

A lot of bags. Yeah, I wear my. I wear it. Cause I'm not. I'm to a. Somebody could be like, oh, I just saw him in the airport with that same coat on. Who gives a fuck? Like, who cares? Like, I am, like, 97.5% to that ultimate level of saying, who gives a fuck? Like, I don't. Fuck you. Fuck what you think about what I'm wearing. Fuck what you think about what I said. Fuck what you think about what I did. Like, I'm doing. I'm living my life for me and my happiness.

[Brooke Devart]

I was really surprised by the vulnerability in the book. In terms of mental health conversations. One of the things you talked about was not drinking at home because you witnessed your mother having that kind of depression. And you realize, okay, if I have a cocktail, I'm going to do it socially. I'm not going to, you know, drink at home. How much does it weigh on you, breaking kind of generational patterns that are unhealthy mentally?

[Sir John]

I think, to be quite honest, a lot of it because I therapeutic myself. I don't have a therapist.

[Brooke Devart]

Yeah, I was going to ask, are you in therapy?

[Sir John]

No, I do it. I kind of. And you know, and that's my own choice. And you know, I'm not saying that people shouldn't have a therapist and if that works for you, that works for you. But my thing with therapists is that, and this is just my thing, so please don't. I know people are going to crucify from this, but it's almost to me the same thing as someone going to a priest and saying, dear Father, forgive me for my sins to this man. Right. And so I can't sit there and organically and authentically tell you everything that's going on with me when I don't know how messy your home is. That's just me. So I try to like, really, really. I know when I've done something wrong. I know when I've done something wrong to someone. I know if I made somebody feel a certain type of way, you know, bad, and I try to fix that on my own. I know when I do things that are not healing for me and I try to fix it on my own, but that's just me. I just can't fathom me having this open dialect and being super honest with this person and I don't know shit about them. I just can't do it. I can't do it. So I try to do a lot of self reflecting and a lot of self healing.

[Brooke Devart]

It seems like you're very self aware and able to catch patterns that are unhealthy and then correct them.

[Sir John]

Yeah, yeah. Like one of the biggest things is that I don't listen to music.

[Brooke Devart]

Oh, tell me more about that.

[Sir John]

Because it was something. My mom only played music when she was depressed and drunk. And so when I was younger, I felt me just doing those same patterns and you know, it would like. This is so funny. Like, so I was like dating a guy or whatever back in the day and I didn't understand why he wouldn't let me love him the way I wanted to love him. And that was so stupid when you think about it. Not that he didn't love me the way I needed to be loved, but he wouldn't let me love him the way I wanted to love him. And I found myself listening to Toni Braxton, Just Be a Man about it, like over and over again. I was just like crying and shit. I was like, you know, especially the one, she's like, you know your mama, that's where you should be or whatever that part is. It's just like. And so I found myself slipping into these same things that I had saw her do. And so I just stopped, like. And so I can listen to music. Even when I drive, I'm in the car. I just self reflect and think about my day. And no music.

[Brooke Devart]

Interesting.

[Law Roach]

That's actually pretty mindful. I hate to say that word so popular right now, but absolutely. That's pretty key. I know you don't go to therapy, but that's one of the things to turn it off. All the data, all the noise.

[Brooke Devart]

We have to talk about the ball scene because it's a big source of inspiration for you. And one of the things that you talk about in the book is, is seeing Andre Jay walk around New York and Jay Alexander on America's Next Top Model. What has the ball seen? And seeing men that present that way done for your creativity?

[Sir John]

Well, you know, my hair has became my thing.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. By the way, when we said that you were going to be on this podcast, everyone said we have to talk about the bust down middle part. Always flawless hair moments.

[Sir John]

Yeah. And so in the early 2000s, I used to see Andre. You know, he was like, he was like a club kid. He worked at the door at a few clubs.

[Brooke Devart]

Sir John. And I remember seeing him like, walk.

[Law Roach]

Remember me back in the studio.

[Brooke Devart]

He was iconic in New York.

[Sir John]

He was iconic. And then he did that French Vogue cover.

[Brooke Devart]

Of course. Yes.

[Sir John]

It was so inspiring. And a lot of times I think we see things when we're younger and we just never let go of it. And so when I started to do television, I wanted to create this kind of like, alter ego that separated me, the television person, with the person that worked with celebrities. Because one day I remember going in somewhere with a client and it was some people outside asking to take pictures. And they were actually asking to take pictures with me. And I saw the way that the client reacted to that, and I was like, okay, I need to separate myself. But the hair only kind of made me more famous. So it was like it didn't work the way I wanted it to work, but yeah, it was inspired. I'm all about giving people their flower.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

And he did it way before me. And also with Ms. J. Ms. J wasn't a joke. You know, a lot of times we saw a man with wigs and dresses and it was comedy, you know, he wasn't a joke. And when you really dive into his history and he was really in Paris teaching the girls how to walk right for Me, I had to pay homage to them, you know, because it was, that was the first time I saw black men present in a certain way, but also be respected for it.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Law Roach]

So yeah, you just said something that was really key, that you were walking with a client and the people wanted to take photos of you because they were inspired in a big way. Do you ever feel in those spaces that like, damn, do I need to be smaller? Do I need to dim myself a little bit?

[Sir John]

Because I did that forever. Like, even when I started to get more popular, I would wait. Even with Z, like if we were to people like Law, can you take a picture? I'd be like, I'll come back. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day when you're in that place, you are of service.

[Law Roach]

Absolutely.

[Sir John]

You know, and I've always respected that. So I'm like, I'm like, I'll come back out and I'll take pictures and so. Yeah, absolutely.

[Law Roach]

So, you know, as a makeup artist, I feel like our business, you can be at the executive level in your career, but the name is still the same sometimes. Right. So for younger creatives who want a 20 year career, what's the evolution look like?

[Sir John]

I think you have to know exactly what you want because some people do want to just be a stylist behind the scenes and don't want to be public facing and that's fine. You know, some people just love the craft and the skill of just being a stylist and I think that's fine. But for me, one, I always understood very early that the more public facing you become, the more money you make. Right. So my transition was always money motivated as well, you know what I mean?

[Law Roach]

Branding.

[Sir John]

Yeah. So, so, but it's just, you know, it's just, it depends on what kind of career you want and then you make choices based on that.

[Law Roach]

When did you know you were a brand?

[Sir John]

When you travel and you see the way that people start to treat you different. Yeah, I think that's the tails. Universal.

[Law Roach]

Universal, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sir John]

Internationally you start to think like, like, you know, it's like when you walk up to an event and everybody move out the way and you know, they don't ask your name anymore. I think that's kind of, you know.

[Brooke Devart]

Those type of things when you realize.

[Sir John]

Yeah, or you could have like 15 people with you and you just like, you just turn around like they with me. You know what I mean? Like it's that type of shit. You know what I mean?

[Brooke Devart]

Yes.

[Sir John]

Because I'm like The only reason I've ever. The only reason I ever wanted to have any type of fame was, one, so that me and my friends can enjoy that lifestyle, two, to make more money, and three, so I don't have to stand in line places. So simple for me.

[Law Roach]

But I push you on that one because I feel like you do it for not knowing. A lot of us do this for the culture, too. Like.

[Sir John]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Law Roach]

You've opened doors and changed the hearts and minds of editors. Like, the establishment. That's going to also create a big, huge gateway. So even though it seems like it started just so we can have extra bottles in the club, it's actually for the culture, man.

[Sir John]

No, Everything I do is for the culture. Everybody knows that. And if there are anybody who do what I do and says that they weren't positively affected directly from the work I put in, it's just a liar.

[Law Roach]

You better say it.

[Brooke Devart]

We have some lightning round questions for you, some submitted by listeners. Okay. People want to know what the skincare routine is. What are, like, the essentials in your skincare kit you can't live without, to be honest.

[Sir John]

La Roche Posay level double.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. I love LaRouche business.

[Sir John]

I do, too. I do, too. And I'm kind of, like, honestly using all their products right now.

[Brooke Devart]

Okay, we love that. We love that. Okay. Your go to daytime fragrance.

[Sir John]

I do travel with Killian.

[Brooke Devart]

Okay. Which Killian scent?

[Sir John]

I love them.

[Brooke Devart]

All of them.

[Sir John]

I have, like, all the travel ones, and I keep one in every single bag.

[Brooke Devart]

Okay. Pregnancy dressing tips. Selfish question for me, for women that are, you know, got the bump and they've got to start. Have you ever had a pregnant client?

[Sir John]

Okay, I'll tell a story. So I was dressed as Keke before she announced that she was pregnant. And I had two. So I dressed Halsey through her entire pregnancy.

[Law Roach]

Okay. Okay.

[Sir John]

We even did her visual album, if I can't have love, I want power, and she was six, seven months pregnant doing the whole thing.

[Brooke Devart]

Wow.

[Sir John]

I'm also very afraid of pregnant women for some reason.

[Brooke Devart]

Why is that?

[Sir John]

I'm so scared. Like, I always think I'm gonna bump into you too hard or something. I'm sophobia of pregnant women. But I dressed Halsey, and that was amazing. And, you know, Halsey would kind of, like, play into the pregnancy, and I thought it was amazing. And so then I dressed Keke, and this is when Keke was hiding her pregnancy, although we all knew she was pregnant. And I kept on trying to, like, play it along. I kept on trying to like, come on, girl. Like, everybody knows. She's like, it's not everybody's business. I'll let them know when I'm ready to let them know. And so I could never get it right with her.

[Brooke Devart]

Right.

[Sir John]

Because. Because she wasn't ready to let people embrace that she was pregnant.

[Brooke Devart]

Pregnant, yes.

[Sir John]

Like, I'm like, kiki, come on, you try it. But, yeah, love that. Yeah.

[Brooke Devart]

We have a great question from Alexis, who's a huge fan of yours. So she says your grandmother is a huge inspiration. And you talk about her church looks. What's the look that you've done that you feel your grandmother would love the most?

[Sir John]

So it would have to be Zendaya at the Essence. I think it was the Essence Black Women in Hollywood, maybe. And she wore a dress that belonged to Yves Saint Laurent couture outfit that belonged to Eunice Johnson.

[Brooke Devart]

Oh, wow.

[Sir John]

And I think that because I always say, when I grew up, there was no Vogue on my coffee table. It was Essence and Ebony and Jet. And so I think that my grandmother would probably be most proud of that look because it has such history to just being a black woman.

[Brooke Devart]

Absolutely.

[Law Roach]

I have a quick question for the creatives who are watching this, who are trying to get there. Right. You're there. You're at Mount Everest right now. What are the keys to the game? If you had to give just a quick, do this, don't do that, and do this.

[Sir John]

Yeah. So first, anybody's aspiring to be a stylist? My agent and I, Kent Belden, from the only agency, we acquired a digital platform called School of Style. Our aim is to shrinking the gap between learning these materials and actually getting a job. So it's part education, part employment. And so because it's directly tied to the agency who has offices in New York, Louisiana, Nashville and London, and also planning to go global, that once you take this certification course, you'll be moved into this pipeline where you can become someone's first assistant or become someone's intern.

[Law Roach]

And.

[Sir John]

And what makes us so proud about it is that there's electives like, say you are already a working stylist. Right. But you don't quite understand the financials around it. You don't understand about a loan out, and you don't understand about what should you be. A LLC or S Corp. There's an elective that teaches just financial stuff. Wow. Because I think as freelancers, we all have made that mistake about, you know, you make 100,000, you spend 90, but you didn't know that you had to pay 50 in taxes. So you know what I mean?

[Law Roach]

Oh, yeah.

[Sir John]

But yeah. So the school of style is. Is definitely going to shorten the gap between dream and realize that dream.

[Law Roach]

Yeah, that's what's up.

[Sir John]

And again, me being the service of other people.

[Brooke Devart]

Okay, so I'll ask you a final question that we ask everyone on Naked Beauty, which is, when do you feel most beautiful?

[Sir John]

To be quite honest, when I'm at my house in Georgia, I go out every morning and I take walks on my property. And to come from where I come from, to have this property that has all these trees and nature. Like, I saw a falcon the other day and I'm like, I own you, Mr. Falcon. Cause you're on my property. And I just go out and it's like, I have no neighbors. And I just go out with, like, you know, a robe and slippers, and I just walk through the property and just say thank you and look at everything that I've been blessed with, you know, it's beautiful. It's literally. I wake up still cold in my eyes. Like, walk out and just walk and just as just literally out. Say it out loud. I'm thankful. I'm thankful for you, chipmunk. I'm thankful for you, Mushroom. And I do. I feel the most at peace. And the peace makes me feel the most beautiful.

[Brooke Devart]

That's incredible. Note to end on. Thank you so much, la.

[Law Roach]

Thank you, baby.

[Brooke Devart]

All right, so we just wrapped with Law Roach, the image architect himself. Did you know he trademarked that?

[Law Roach]

I did not know he trademarked it, but smart. That's. Listen, guys, how to do this? That was a really nice key to take away. In general, he knew the identity of branding before. Even though he doesn't see it as branding, everything he talked about was branding.

[Brooke Devart]

Well, everything he does is so intentional. I loved hearing you guys talk about just like, the research that goes into it, it all comes back to the work. You can want to be a superstar, but the work has to speak for itself and stand on its own. And his work speaks for itself. And then he's Law Roach on top of it all.

[Law Roach]

You just have to be so obsessed with the thing, the. The beauty of what you do that propels you forward.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. You know the other thing that really occurred to me, hearing him talk, people are hesitant to build their personal brand. Let's say you work in corporate or you're a lawyer. You can be in any single field. Building your personal brand gets you more money.

[Law Roach]

That's so true. You know, and everyone has a personal brand. Like Even if you are the best mom at the pta, who always brings the best brownies or whatever, that's your brand.

[Brooke Devart]

That is your brand. And so there's something very interesting about hearing him talk about I wanted to have a personal brand so that I could get more financial opportunities. And yeah, it's like you have to build your reputation and build your brand. So he's done this work as an image architect for others and now he's applying it to himself.

[Law Roach]

Did you learn anything new?

[Brooke Devart]

Oh, I learned so many new things talking to him. I think I just really understand his perspective about I'm going to be who I'm going to be, I'm going to be authentic. And again, yeah, coming back to the work, like letting work speak for itself. What about you? I mean, you know, law, you've worked with law before.

[Law Roach]

You don't get here and stay here without having a serious work ethic. And so that's why I knew, even though he wasn't feeling well, I knew he was going to be here today. I had this. What do you call it? We were saying the word. It's like a delirious optimism because he came through just off of, literally got in last night on a private jet from Paris with Zendaya in Atlanta, tomorrow in New York, the day after. And so it just, it takes that kind of dedication to the craft, you know?

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. I also just love the visual of him walking around his property in Georgia saying hello to the Chipmunks, saying hello to the Falcons, and really like, you know, being in his robe and living in that moment. He deserves that.

[Law Roach]

He does. And the one thing that hit me and that I'm taking away again is this, that beautiful spirit of like gratitude, you know, and just being so thankful and blessed. And that's how you manifest, that's how more can happen or create. But you got to be thankful and really empowered by what you have now.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. This was definitely such a highlight episode. This was one that we've wanted to do for so long. So we did it, guys.

[Law Roach]

Listen. Stick with it, guys. Stick with it. Stick with us.

[Brooke Devart]

Yes. Thank you all so much for listening.

[Law Roach]

Peace.

[Sir John]

No, I stay fresh.

[Unknown]

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