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- [00:00]
Brooke Devard
Foreign. Hello, hello, this is Brooke Devard and you're listening to the Naked Beauty podcast. Today I am joined in studio with Naima Raza. Welcome to Naked Beauty. I'm going to go through your bio and your accomplishments while you sit here. Is that okay?
- [00:21]
Naima Raza
How horrific. Yes, I do that. I'm just gonna.
- [00:23]
Brooke Devard
Naima Raza is a journalist, podcaster and filmmaker whose work has been featured in the New York Times, the Cut and the Tribeca Film Festival. Naima just launched her independent podcast, which is very good, by the way. Smart Girl Dumb questions. Each Friday she asks direct unfiltered questions we all want the answer to. With amazing guests like Mark Cuban, Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Kenji Lopez. Alt. Naima is a multi hyphenate and multicultural. She's Pakistani American, but grew up in Indonesia and Sudan and lived much of her adult life between uk, Vietnam and Jordan, Libya, South Africa and more. These days she's mostly in New York City living and working and dating like a modern day Carrie Bradshaw. We are going to get into it all. Naima, welcome to Naked Beauty.
- [01:05]
Naima Raza
Brooke, thank you so much for having me. I love the show, I love what you do and thank you for having me, but also for embarrassing me by reading things to me about me.
- [01:13]
Brooke Devard
Listen, you are very smart and you've done so many amazing things. I realized when I was doing research to interview you that I'd read a lot of your articles for the New York Times without, you know, knowing who you were. That we even had like friends in common. And we have Stanford in common.
- [01:28]
Naima Raza
Right? We do have Stanford.
- [01:29]
Brooke Devard
You went to Stanford? I went to grad school there, yeah.
- [01:31]
Naima Raza
And I'm a little older than you, so I went after you and graduated. I think we switched spaces. Like, you graduated from Stanford, moved to London. I. Yes, moved from London to Stanford.
- [01:40]
Brooke Devard
Yes, but. And I love the concept of Smart Girl Dumb questions because I feel like intelligence, like the biggest marker of intelligence is like curiosity.
- [01:50]
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- [03:09]
Naima Raza
Yeah, I think that's how you also get smarter, Right? It's just by asking. And I realized that I was part of this ecosystem in media where so many of the interviews that I was producing or doing were about showing what I knew or like getting this incremental bite of information, a scoop in news terms that for 99% of the world didn't matter. And it was just going to turn out like 14 new articles about XYZ political beat, you know, and I was like, you know, I want to ask the questions that we all want the answers to. I want to like just that feeling of being in a meeting where everyone's talking about something and using an acronym and somebody says like, hey, what does that mean? And you're like, thank you, thank you, you person. And I wanted to do that in a show.
- [03:47]
Brooke Devard
Yes. I love it. And so you're Pakistani American. And so I feel like I can't not ask you about the American woman in Pakistan.
- [03:57]
Naima Raza
Oh, yes. Oh my God, yes. Like such a hero. We have embraced her in Pakistan.
- [04:02]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. So she was so warmly embraced in Pakistan. And I feel like I knew so little about Pakistan before her ascent into her home country.
- [04:10]
Naima Raza
Yes.
- [04:10]
Brooke Devard
And I was amazed at how warm the people were, how non judgmental they were, how they really like took care of her. I feel like it was great PR for the country.
- [04:17]
Naima Raza
Oh, I know. It was like this ad. So basically this for people. I think everyone knows the story. Give us the background. There is this wonderful woman and now I'm forgetting her name.
- [04:25]
Brooke Devard
Onijah Robinson.
- [04:26]
Naima Raza
Onijah Robinson. Who?
- [04:28]
Brooke Devard
From New York.
- [04:29]
Naima Raza
From New York City. This very, you know, cool, personality driven black woman shows up in Pakistan because I think she'd met someone on a dating app.
- [04:37]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [04:37]
Naima Raza
And you know, the love didn't work. Out. But then she demanded real estate. She wanted to be set up in Pakistan. She felt she had been lied to and people were kind of willing. I think she had a GoFundMe people.
- [04:48]
Brooke Devard
Oh, yeah, she wanted 20,000 or more.
- [04:50]
Naima Raza
20,000 or more. She wanted a certain amount of, like real estate size that she wanted. And yeah, people. I think it was just like a moment for Pakistan in the news, but also it became a conversation, like amongst government officials about, oh, should we give her some kind of land? Should we help her buy a ticket home? I mean, I think there were.
- [05:09]
Brooke Devard
There were also some concerns about maybe mental health.
- [05:11]
Naima Raza
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, if there's one thing Pakistanis are, it's like immensely hospitable, like to the point of being kidnappers. Like, if you enter a Pakistani household, like, if you enter my mom's house, she will feed you and she might never let you leave. She'll just feed you. She's like the anti ozempic, you know, come there, she'll just feed you to the end of time. But that is something that is very. It was beautiful to see that reflected because not a lot of people know about Pakistan. And both my parents are Pakistani, of course, ironically, like, my parents were older parents, so my dad was in his 50s, my mom was in her 40s, and my dad was born before Partition. My mom was born at Partition.
- [05:46]
Brooke Devard
And wait, what is partition?
- [05:47]
Naima Raza
1947. Yes, it's. British India was one state that now encompasses, of course, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir. They were all ruled under colonial rule as British India, the British Indian Empire. And right before, you know, colonization was ending In August of 47, there was a decision that there would be a split between the Hindus and the Muslims. So there is this massive, you know, Muslim, Hindu kind of historical coexistence, slash rift. Muslims were not included in the Indian caste structure, for example, or they were seen as untouchable, as the lowest ring of the class. And so right on the eve of Partition, Pakistan was created as a different state, led by Jinnah, et cetera. And India was its own state. Pakistan was a fragmented state that was actually West Pakistan, which is now current day Pakistan, and East Pakistan, which is Bangladesh. And then many people might have heard, like, Kashmir is this fought over land. And so Kashmir was supposed to be part of Pakistan, but the Maharaja of Kashmir was Hindu and wanted to be part of India. So there was this like, kind of defection in that moment. And that continues to be a real kind of lightning rod in the region. And then in the 1970s, East Pakistan became independent Bangladesh, in part, like kind of egged on by the Indians, but also because the Bangladeshis were treated almost as second class citizens in their own country. And there's, you know, my family, my mom's family was living in East Pakistan and then migrated to West Pakistan.
- [07:04]
Brooke Devard
Interesting.
- [07:04]
Naima Raza
So that's like a history of partition. But the thing is we're all the same. And if I sit in a car, like people just always assume I'm Indian or like if I'm, if we're going out to eat, I'll often be like Indian food. Even though I mean Pakistani food. And a lot of times when you go to an Indian restaurant in London, you're actually eating food by Bangladeshi cooks or Pakistani cooks.
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Brooke Devard
Right.
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Naima Raza
Just branded by India because it's like the biggest of the three.
- [07:23]
Brooke Devard
Oh my gosh, that reminds me so much of the Ottoman Empire in Turkey, where I spend a lot of time in Turkey, now called Turkey. But Greece and Turkey are like, it's like identical cultures, but one is Christian and one is Muslim.
- [07:36]
Naima Raza
You can get in big trouble for saying that in some parts of the world. And they have Cyprus, which is a similar line up the visery line for them. But Turks in Pakistanis. Like my best friend from college is a Turkish guy and I've spent a ton of time in Turkey. I know your husband is Turkish, but we're also like very good close friends. So there's a lot of Turkish stuff in Pakistan. Like Turkey is one of the very friendly countries to Pakistan.
- [07:56]
Brooke Devard
Interesting.
- [07:57]
Naima Raza
Yeah.
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Brooke Devard
Now, like now I want to go to Pakistan.
- [07:59]
Naima Raza
You got to come.
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Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [08:00]
Naima Raza
Oh my God. My mom won't let you leave.
- [08:02]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [08:02]
Naima Raza
She's actually suburban Maryland, so she. You don't want to see her there. You want to go to Pakistan.
- [08:07]
Brooke Devard
Well, you've lived in so many different countries. I need you to do the rundown again. And you've gotten to experience beauty culture across these different countries, which I find to be so fascinating. One of the pieces of content, my like stretch content goal for myself is to work on a series about beauty culture all around the world.
- [08:23]
Naima Raza
Oh.
- [08:23]
Brooke Devard
Because I think it's. Yeah. We have so much about food all around the world and music, but it's like beauty culture is so distinct.
- [08:29]
Naima Raza
Well, you're very limber, so I'm sure you're going to stretch and do that thing. I love that. I love all kind of travel shows. I want to do a show where I see people's funerals all around the world. Like funerals, weddings and birthdays.
- [08:38]
Brooke Devard
Oh my gosh. Do you have treatment for that yet?
- [08:40]
Naima Raza
I have a little bit of.
- [08:41]
Brooke Devard
I should exchange notes.
- [08:42]
Naima Raza
Yeah, we should. Actually. I came up as a documentary filmmaker, actually, before I was in journalism, like in 2019, I started at the Times, but before that I was making docs for a few years. But I grew up all over the world because my dad, who's now passed away.
- [08:53]
Brooke Devard
I'm so sorry.
- [08:54]
Naima Raza
Thank you. That was one of the articles I wrote in the Times was about my dad, but he was at the World bank, so he had left Pakistan and come to the US as a Fulbright scholar in, like, the late 1950s and then studied here, and then was had this kind of diplomatic or international civil servant career where he designed dams in all kinds of countries for a while. And he was like, chief engineer for the Nigerian government and designed a dam in the north. So my sister, who's 18 years older to me, was born in Nigeria. I have a sister who's three years older to me that was born in Pakistan. Then I was born in D.C. so every single person in our family is, like, born in a different country. We actually, for most of our lives, all lived, like, we were never all five in the same country because my sister was 18 years older. So she was always, like, studying or grown up and then. But we stayed very close as a family. And I grew up with a very Pakistani beauty culture.
- [09:39]
Brooke Devard
Yes. What is Pakistani beauty culture?
- [09:41]
Naima Raza
I mean, it's like always on, like, it's like 247 Instagram in some sense. Like Pakistan. There's this, you know, because so much of the value of women historically is in their beauty and their ability to be married off.
- [09:54]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [09:54]
Naima Raza
And so Pakistani beauty standard is like this fairness. I'll talk to you about the process of how you get there. But the objective beauty standard is it's very fair. Like, you'll. You'll hear jokes of fair and lovely is a product that exists which is.
- [10:07]
Brooke Devard
Like a skin bleaching.
- [10:08]
Naima Raza
It's like skin bleaching product or people use turmeric or healthy, healthy turmeric.
- [10:12]
Brooke Devard
And is that. Does that just boil down to colonialism?
- [10:14]
Naima Raza
I think so. I think across the world, right? Like, there's. So. It's funny because I think one of the things of growing up as I did, like a third culture kid, in all these different places is you realize so many things are the same. Like, there is this kind of global admiration of, like, lightness in many cultures around the world. Just like there are some variation of a Turkish hammam or like a scrub in a steam in all these different parts of the world and you kind of wonder, did those get around because people traveled and those ideas traveled well, or do we as humans just have certain innate similarities that every culture bubbled up and had them? But that has historically been the standard. I think that remains the standard, though. We have busted out a little bit of it. And then Pakistani. It's really like having long hair, luscious hair, often covered. Like the Pakistani hijab, if women wear them, you know, which I obviously don't and neither do any of the women in my family. But they tend to like show a little bit of hair like that. There's always like the Benazir. But to look which is like a little bit deep, which is the opposite of what you're supposed to do in a hijab. But that's like the, you know, I think that hair is seen as a source of beauty. You know, kind of like lashes, brows as defining features. And then kind of a hooked nose is a very pocket. I have a. In my younger years I thought about getting a nose job, but I was like, I have a Pakistani nose, like a larger, like more curved hook nose.
- [11:28]
Brooke Devard
And I love a distinctive nose.
- [11:29]
Naima Raza
It's distinctive. Yeah, for sure. And then the process by how you get to that beauty standard. There's a lot of grooming. Like in Pakistan, women are groomed all the time. Like I know families who have like a person who like lives in their house who will like wax them, sugar them, strip them, threading their brows is a big thing.
- [11:45]
Brooke Devard
So brow ship in their house to groom them.
- [11:48]
Naima Raza
There are women in, I mean this is a very small size of Pakistani society. But there are people in Pakistan who have like tailors that live in their homes. Because so much of your life is like the society. Like think about it. Our weddings are not one day or one weekend. Five events. We have five events in a Pakistani wedding.
- [12:03]
Brooke Devard
Wow. So and you have to like show up looking flawless at everyone.
- [12:06]
Naima Raza
Yeah. And the average size of a wedding like is like 1500 people. So not average, but that's a lot of people or like hundreds of people is a small wedding.
- [12:15]
Brooke Devard
So this is like the 1% of Pakistan.
- [12:17]
Naima Raza
But the large weddings is everywhere. Like villages, et cetera. Weddings are seen as this big moment of celebration.
- [12:22]
Brooke Devard
But the live in groomers, tellers.
- [12:25]
Naima Raza
Yeah. And the very funny thing about Pakistani society that is like Pakistani women are so powerful. There's this mythology, I think, around women in Islam. Like women are subservient or women are domiciled and women cover their hair and all these things. A lot of the history of that spiritually is actually about the emancipation or it's about the freedom of women. It's like women not to be just ogled at, but to feel safe or secure. Islam was one of the first religions to give women the right to divorce, for example, or. And divorce is quite easy, you know, procedurally. That's not to say there aren't a lot of problems. There are a lot of problems. But actually, like, inside most Pakistani homes, like, it is a matriarchy. And especially in like, educated society, like, you know, we've had female heads of state, which haven't happened in this culture. And so I think it's very interesting, this balance of feminism, like, which we're having that conversation in the States with trad, wifing, et cetera. And I think in Pakistani society there's this like, very femme and like very polished look, but that's also very strong, domineering quality to women as well.
- [13:25]
Brooke Devard
Interesting. Did the female head of state adhere to the kind of traditional beauty standards? Yeah.
- [13:30]
Naima Raza
Benazir Bateau. She was. Yeah. She's like, very classically beautiful. Like, luscious lips. Like. Yeah. And. Yeah, like the kind of like very South Asian cheekbones, like high up Instagram face. Cheekbones. The descent Instagram face is a descendant of South Asians in two ways, which is, I think the cheekbones and the eyes. Yeah, like big eyes. But how we get there, like. Yeah, Sugaring. A lot of natural beauty.
- [13:52]
Brooke Devard
Okay, so think about the natural beauty treatments.
- [13:55]
Naima Raza
Yeah. So like badam kithel is like almond oil for your body. Yes, Almond oil is a big thing for your body. Besin, which is a flour. Like flour and haldi, turmeric is like a lot of like, cleansing and flour.
- [14:08]
Brooke Devard
F L O U R. Flour.
- [14:10]
Naima Raza
Flour, yes, flour, which is besan flour. And then haldi, which is turmeric, to like give you that glow. And so a lot of people will use this kind of like face masks or cleansers that mix those elements in. And then threading, as opposed to tweezing, which is seen as a more gentle. And I still to this day, like, I can thread my own eyebrows. And I. Because I would never put a tweezer to my eyebrows. Not that my eyebrows are great, but I just like.
- [14:32]
Brooke Devard
You have beautiful eyebrows.
- [14:33]
Naima Raza
Oh, thank you. They're partly like. I mean, they probably were over thin in the mid aughts, but like the beauty of threading. Plus hourglass brow filler. Hourglass brow filler. But. But there's this. Yeah. Like a lot of more Natural routine. And then also I think about this a lot because, you know, I'm like starting to get grays and in one corner of my hair, and I'm like, oh, what should I do for my hair? And I think I probably will want to do henna, which is. They call it henna. We call it Mandy, actually, which is the same. You know, you use it to draw beautiful designs on your hands during that, like, five part Pakistani wedding. But you also can use it to color hair. And that's how my mom and everyone would color their hair. It gives you kind of these bright orangey flecks.
- [15:13]
Brooke Devard
Reddish. I've done henna on my hair.
- [15:15]
Naima Raza
Oh, you have? But the CR is my hair stylist, Colby Alcantar, who I love. I'm the only girl that goes from Manhattan to Williamsburg to cut her hair. Because I love Colby so much. She's the. She's a trainer for Oribe and has a salon called Little Axe. She told me that if I start doing henna, if I ever do hair dye, my hair will burn off.
- [15:34]
Brooke Devard
Okay, well, I'll trust a professional, but I. That has not been my experience.
- [15:37]
Naima Raza
But you have to wait for the henna to grow out before.
- [15:40]
Brooke Devard
You probably have to wait for it.
- [15:41]
Naima Raza
To grow out because there's something that reacts like something in most and many hair dyes, probably not all hair dyes, but, like, it can cause a reaction.
- [15:49]
Brooke Devard
But I love henna treatments for the hair. It was really big in the natural, the black natural hair community in like 2012ish. Yes. Henna treatments for hair. And people would do henna with conditioner. People would do like every six weeks, do a henna treatment.
- [16:02]
Naima Raza
What did you find? Because I've never done it. What did you find is the difference between the two? Besides the color, the kind of orange?
- [16:06]
Brooke Devard
The color, definitely. But it also, like, made my curls better. Like, I feel like it enhanced the structure of my curls and, like, helped to define my hair.
- [16:13]
Naima Raza
Oh, that's so interest. Okay. So now I feel more confident about as a future choice when I get there. And then, you know, I grew up in Indonesia, Sudan, because my, my dad was at the World bank in those countries. And Indonesia, there is this huge Indian, like, people go to Bali a lot. And that Ayurvedic culture, I think it's called Jammu in Bali, but it's a very similar kind of treatment of the whole idea of Ayurveda and a lot of South Asian care is like, you as a body are more like what's out there in Nature than you are like in your technology.
- [16:45]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
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Naima Raza
And in our interior. Alive.
- [16:47]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [16:48]
Naima Raza
And so it's kind of aligning yourself to live by the day. Even like Islamic prayer is kind of tied to sunrise, sunset, et cetera. So a lot of it is like alignment with the natural world as a source of health and beauty.
- [17:00]
Brooke Devard
And a lot of it. Right. Is identifying. What is it? It's called a dosha. A dosha in Ayurvedic, what your dosha is like, if you're like pitta or vata.
- [17:08]
Naima Raza
Yeah. So I was, I was seeing a guy who is in the health world and we went to Berkshires and went to an Ayurvedic yoga center, which I can't remember the name of, but it's like starts with a K and had these Ayurvedic readings and not our kushas. I was a vata. Pitta.
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Brooke Devard
Vata, pitta. Okay, so that means like drier. What is the.
- [17:27]
Naima Raza
No, vata is air. So they're all tied to elements. So like kapha is, I think water, pita is fire and vata is air. And it's funny, you basically like take this. You can probably find it on the Internet. But don't click on like a, you know, misinformation site that's going to steal all your cookies. But you can find one of these quizzes and it basically identifies a lot of things. Like, are your eyes very almond shaped? That's very kapha. It's like on that I would be kapha. Is your hair thick? Like, that would be kapha. But then also your appetite. It asks you, like, do you get hungry early in the day? And like, I don't. You know, I burn meals really quickly, so I'm pitta in that way. And then vata is this kind of airiness. It's like I'll kind of go through a day and be like, I didn't have a meal. Like, that's very vata. And so you're kind of predominantly two of the three. And they say actually you should date someone who's the other two.
- [18:13]
Brooke Devard
Oh, interesting.
- [18:13]
Naima Raza
So Guy and I were actually like opposite twos. We're not dating anymore. But I think that was like a good indicator of that. But it's about being in balance and harmony with your body. So for me, like, fire and wind together can be very destructive if they're not regulated. So you have to use it as balance for each other. And so the Ayurvedic teacher was telling me a lot about like kind of being sure. To eat earlier in the day than I was and going to bed at a certain hour when I'm very much a night owl. So, yeah, so that's in the history. And then a lot of oil is used, a lot of natural oil based stuff, which is also the case in Indonesia and later on in my life when I lived in places like Jordan and Vietnam. In Vietnam, I found there's like a lot of rice water. And that which you just taught me as on my show, because I asked you a bunch of dumb questions about beauty.
- [18:59]
Brooke Devard
But, yes, rice water. And you know what? I do love how we borrow from all of these different cultures. But I wonder for you, does it ever not anger you, but do you ever feel like, I don't know, you give a side eye to the repackaging of a lot of South Asian beauty treatments like turmeric and Ayurvedic, when it comes from a source that is distinctly not part of that culture?
- [19:18]
Naima Raza
Yeah. Like this cultural appropriation argument. I mean, I don't know, because I feel like in the world, so many good things come from mixing. You know, I made a documentary film on the band Sublime, which is a big Southern California band, and they basically, you know, they like used a lot of hip hop, a lot of, like, ska, a lot of reggae, and there were three white guys, but they had this, like, they created a sound. And I think there was a respect in the art form of using it. So I appreciate. I mean, mostly I'm jealous that I didn't think about, like, bringing Ayurveda to the United States. Cause I did have a conversation with a friend in 2012 being like, we should package this shit and bring it to the States. But I. I do think that we're being overcharged for a lot of natural ingredients. And particularly, like, I'm always looking for the dupe. I'm like a deal hunter, you know, and so it doesn't absolutely set me. I think it's nice if it had that branding.
- [20:04]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [20:04]
Naima Raza
If, like, you knew that these things came from Pakistan or, you know, that these. I think it's beautiful to tell a story, and I appreciate when brands do that. But more, I think that sometimes we spend a lot of time reinventing things that other cultures have already found out.
- [20:17]
Brooke Devard
Right, right, right. Like, I feel like Gua Sha has become so detached from Chinese medicine.
- [20:23]
Naima Raza
Yeah.
- [20:24]
Brooke Devard
And a lot of the brands selling Gua Sha have no connection to China whatsoever.
- [20:29]
Naima Raza
Yeah. And even our whole longevity obsession, which I'm kind of. I'm into longevity culture, but I Do think that a lot of it's trying to recreate something that Eastern medicine has in many ways perfected over 5,000 years. Right. And I think often in America, we're guilty of, like, forgetting the rest of the world. And every time you go into a museum and you see things that were created, like, thousands of years ago in Egyptian culture or Chinese culture, like, they have a head start and trying to find a lot of these answers. And so trying to figure it out in our more chemical, digital way is sometimes scarier to me.
- [21:00]
Brooke Devard
What are you doing for longevity?
- [21:02]
Naima Raza
Oh, I mean, mostly, like, my number one hack is that I really don't drink or drink very, very little and eat pretty clean. Have never. I'm not, like, into the kind of drug and, you know, cigarette culture. I was never into that. So that, I think is the number one hack. But I'm gonna do the prenuvo scan.
- [21:18]
Brooke Devard
Okay. Yes. That scan that can tell you if you have early indications of any sort of terminal illnesses.
- [21:24]
Naima Raza
Yeah. And I think I'm gonna interview the medical officer on my show. And also I'm hosting a longevity health and tech conference in San Francisco with Eric Newcomer, who's also an independent journalist. And we're doing that in September and going to have a lot of people from the longevity space out there. So I'm currently, like, absorbed in this model. I just bought a red light therapy cellular device. And it's funny because I thought about buying it for fertility. Like, I was thinking about doing another round of egg freezing, which I had done in my early 30s, and I was thinking about doing another round right now.
- [21:52]
Brooke Devard
Why do another round? Did you not get as many eggs as you wanted?
- [21:55]
Naima Raza
No, I got, like 20 odd eggs. And that was like, a lot. That was like, a lot. And like, that. That, you know, there's always calculators, right? And it's like, okay, those 20 odd eggs should give you five Euclid embryos. And each euplid embryo has a 65% chance of birth. Therefore, you have, like a three, you know, likelihood of getting, you know, two to three, four kids, like, in this.
- [22:15]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [22:16]
Naima Raza
Which is as many as I'd ever want. But that said, like, I think as you get later in tier threes, you're like, okay, am I going to actually have kids? Am I going to. Is that going to be the primary way in which I have kids? What if they don't work? What if there was a refrigerator outage during COVID I mean, this is misinformation. Like, they actually, they. I was explained to Me by my doctor, because I did ask, like, it's less about the generator and the electricity. It's more about the liquid nitrogen that they freeze the little tiny baby eggs into. I was just thinking about doing it because I'm like, okay, I'm not partnered. I don't have a kid yet. And so I thought about increasing my odds. And one of the things I was reading is that acupuncture and red light therapy are, like, helps. Helps the fertility outcomes. And obviously, if you're doing fertility treatments in your later 30s is not as successful as in your young 30s, your quality of your eggs diminish, even if your quantity doesn't. So I got this red light. I was going to order the Celluma red light device for that, but then it's just, like, vanity culture. I'm like, oh, it's, like, really good for your skin. Oh, it, like, helps your hair. So I bought the three version of it, which, like, you can put it on your abdomen, you can put it on your face, and you can put it on your head. Now I don't have 90 minutes in a day to do all this stuff.
- [23:16]
Brooke Devard
They went through this.
- [23:17]
Naima Raza
I haven't yet even opened it from the package, but I own it, which is like, I own. Yeah. And I also have the, like, those, like. Like, leg compressors, the Normatec leg.
- [23:25]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [23:26]
Naima Raza
Boots. So I have all these, like, longevity hacks, but I'm generally, like, into circulation, lymphatic drainage, keeping toxins out of my body. And one.
- [23:34]
Brooke Devard
Do you eat sugar?
- [23:35]
Naima Raza
I do. That's my one.
- [23:37]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. I'm like, people that are like, you look amazing. Can we share your age?
- [23:41]
Naima Raza
Yeah, we can. I mean, we can just tell them I'm old, but. Yeah, but ageless. Yes.
- [23:45]
Brooke Devard
But, you know, when I talk to people that look really, really good, they always say that they don't drink.
- [23:50]
Naima Raza
Yeah.
- [23:50]
Brooke Devard
And then they also. The next thing that comes is like, they kind of stay away from sugar. And I'm like, I can imagine staying away from sugar. I love a good dessert. A sweet treat.
- [23:58]
Naima Raza
I love. And I love Suzy cakes. When I'm in California. Like, I just had Susie cakes. Yeah. It's very good.
- [24:02]
Brooke Devard
The mochi donuts here.
- [24:04]
Naima Raza
No. What are the.
- [24:05]
Brooke Devard
Oh, my gosh. Mochi nut. Mochi donuts are, like, I'm obsessed.
- [24:08]
Naima Raza
Really good. I haven't heard of mochi donuts. I like mochi, though. They're cold. They're frozen.
- [24:12]
Brooke Devard
No, no, no. They're just hot, warm donuts. But they have that kind of, like, tapioca gumminess they're so good.
- [24:17]
Naima Raza
Okay.
- [24:17]
Brooke Devard
You get like a Matcha Mochi donut.
- [24:20]
Naima Raza
I love. I don't drink coffee either.
- [24:21]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [24:22]
Naima Raza
Which was a hack from my mom who was like, don't drink coffee till you have kids because you'll need, like a caffeine burr.
- [24:26]
Brooke Devard
Yeah. Caffeine is like water to me. Like, it just doesn't even wake me up. The tiredness I feel is just like, coffee. I'm beyond coffee.
- [24:35]
Naima Raza
But there are all these studies that, like, caffeine can help you, like, prevent things like Alzheimer's, et cetera. And the other thing I do is I work out. Like, I do work out. And I really believe increasingly it's Pilates. I wrote a piece in the times in 2020 about how I never had really worked out until 2016. And it was in that election that I got stressed and I started, like, working out all the time because I would just look at people who run. And Neil DeGrasse Tyson said this to me on my show. He's like, if you look at runners, they're never smiling.
- [25:03]
Brooke Devard
That's so true.
- [25:03]
Naima Raza
And I was like, that's very scientific evidence of why running is that. But I realized they were able to clear their head and I needed to do that in that kind of election cycle in 2020, especially of covering an election. But I. Even in 2016, et cetera, just the stress of the politics and the amount we need to know. I mean, we live in a culture now where like 12 year old kids are stressed about the election results and 8 year old kids or, you know, are talking to you about politics. And certainly, like, politics are extremely important and I think we should pay attention to them. But I also feel like we need outlets. We don't need just incoming.
- [25:34]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [25:34]
Naima Raza
And so exercise has been a huge outlet for me. I used to do, like hit high intensity interval training, like Barry's like five or six times a week, and then do yoga on top of it three times a week. Like, I was super. Class pass culture of like 2017, New York.
- [25:47]
Brooke Devard
Yeah, I remember those days there too.
- [25:49]
Naima Raza
Yeah, yeah, that Class pass. Dry bar.
- [25:51]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [25:51]
Naima Raza
Era.
- [25:52]
Brooke Devard
Not dry bar for me, but class pass. Yes.
- [25:54]
Naima Raza
Yes. I was in that era, but now I've like, focused a lot more on Pilates and strength because as you kind of get into your late 30s, early 40s, you want to focus much more on building muscle. It's like women's hormones fluctuate. I just interviewed Tamsen Fadal about this because I'm like, what does life look like in your 40s and 50s. And she kind of gave me the rundown of like how muscle is the number one thing you want to invest in Protein.
- [26:16]
Brooke Devard
Yes. I love strength training. And when you said do that. I do strength training. Yeah. Twice a week, lifting weights, I love it. But I thought you were going to say that you do NAD supplements, shots, because that's what everyone's doing now in the longevity world.
- [26:27]
Naima Raza
No, I'm a little bit scared of supplements. I take like a once daily women's vitamin and I take magnesium at night.
- [26:34]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [26:35]
Naima Raza
But I have to say, like, I have looked a little bit into the lack of regulation when it comes to supplements. I mean, I just, I'm just like, not sure what's in those. Like what looks like a plasticky filled thing, but I do. Yeah, I'm not as much into supplements, but I do know there has been a lot of. And I've been listening to a lot of like nad, the precursor to nad, which is nmn, I think, which is even seen as better to put into your body. I believe berberine is another one that people talk a lot about. And then there's a lot of like Chinese herbs. Like I've heard lion's mane, which I think is a low level.
- [27:08]
Brooke Devard
Yeah, I love lion's mane. With lion's mane all the time, people.
- [27:11]
Naima Raza
Think it's really good for like kind of evening out their temper and their mood through the day and focus.
- [27:16]
Brooke Devard
I've heard it referred to as like a natural advocate. Adderall? Yeah, that's overselling it.
- [27:20]
Naima Raza
I don't know, I've never tried it. I've never tried Adderall, so I really don't know. But I think in general, like, this idea of living healthier for longer is a good thing. I also, like, have always thought like, oh, I want to die young and full of potential, which is such a morbid thing to say, but I'm like running out of time. I don't know, I just like always feel like when you read an obit, you know, I love reading obits and like I've written unfortunately, obit before for a colleague of mine at New York magazine. But there's something about like this romantic quality. And this is probably being a writer of like these lives that were like. It's like imagined lives, you know, and there's this great Kierkegaard quote, the Danish philosopher, and he says, like, the greatest sorrow is for our memories, especially the ones we never made, or our future, especially the one we never had. I'm mistranslating it because I don't speak Danish, but that idea of, like, what could have been is very romantic to me in a life. But I say that facetiously. It's like a terrible thing to die. And I've lost people before and I don't recommend it, but I. I sometimes think, like, we're obsessed with longevity. I don't like anti aging, but I like longevity.
- [28:20]
Brooke Devard
Yeah, I feel like that there's a real distinction there and we should all be trying to enhance the quality of life while we're here. I want to go back to your egg freezing experience because I think a lot of people are afraid to do it for multiple reasons, whether it's the shots or the bloating or the. How did you find your experience? What were your side effects?
- [28:39]
Naima Raza
I didn't find them. It was actually a pretty easy process for me, relatively. I did feel you do gain. Like, I bloated for a little while, but it's all very temporary. It's like after your next cycle, you'll kind of shut it off. I think it's just like an awesome experience for somebody who. And I encourage everybody who's like in their 30s and wants to maybe have kids, but doesn't know or isn't partnered or is thinking about it or is partnered and maybe not with the right. It's just like, go in and do the diagnostics, especially if your insurance covers it. And if your insurance doesn't, a lot of places will do it for like, I think 325 to $350 all in without insurance. And you go and you see a doctor on day three of your cycle. They draw a bunch of blood tests for things like amh, fsh, lh, which are different hormones that give you varying amh, is a kind of indicator of your ovarian reserve. But all of these things fluctuate through your cycle. And they also give you a transvaginal ultrasound, which is a little whoop up there and look around and see how you know how many follicles are around your ovaries and give you a sense. And that just tells you something about your conception. I've always thought this age of 35 is, like, seen as a scarlet letter on women. And I had been in relationships until I was 31 and then broke up, like, from my 16 and 31. I was basically never single, broke up, and then, thankfully, egg freezing was already a thing. I went to see a doctor and I just felt so much more knowledgeable about my own body. And I think, like, men don't have the opportunity to do that because, like, no one's talking to men about their own declining sperm counts. Right. So women, we have this opportunity to do it. The act of giving yourself injections every night, if you do decide to then proceed with an egg freezing cycle will make you feel like a badass scientist. Like looking at yourself in the mirror. Like, I was, you know, like I was an independent filmmaker. I was freezing my eggs. I was like, paying. It's not cheap. It's like, I think it was 12 to $15,000 all in. And I was like looking at myself, giving myself shots, and I'm like, I'm gonna like, have a high standard for my partner and for the baby. For the baby daddy at this point because it's such a empowering thing to do. I don't also don't think it's an insurance policy, but it's not a guarantee.
- [30:43]
Brooke Devard
Right, Right.
- [30:44]
Naima Raza
So you don't know. Like, it's very binary with eggs. Like, maybe my 20 odd eggs are a bunch of babies and maybe they're no babies and I won't know until I go fertilize them with someone's sperm.
- [30:54]
Brooke Devard
Yes. It sounds like you do so much research before you invest or do anything. Which is why I need to get and hair care. Favorite products. Makeup too. Tell me, tell me, tell me the products you can't live without.
- [31:05]
Naima Raza
I feel like I'm more makeup girly than okay. So skincare. I went to restock dermatology and saw a dermatologist called Amanda Doyle. Was basically my first visit to a dermatologist. This is like 2016 or 17. At the time I was using C C fyrelic, some kind of like skinceuticals face wash, a bunch of products like, you know, Shiseido moisturizer or whatever, a ton of stuff. And I was sometimes still breaking out. And I'm like, am I early 30s still breaking out? And I'm like, what is happening? And Dr. Doyle's like, you gotta stop using everything. You're gonna just use a sulfur face wash. You're gonna use azelaic acid three times a week in the mornings underneath sunscreen to like help with dark spots or pigmentation from any acne scarring. And you're gonna use retinol, like tretinoin 0.0253 times a week with moisture and then cerave moisturizer. So she saved me hundreds of dollars. And that visit was covered by my writers guild insurance from See Go for the freelance community in Hollywood was covered by my writer's Guild insurance. And I ended up saving like hundreds of dollars a year in skincare.
- [32:06]
Brooke Devard
Dermatologists are really the ultimate skincare hack. Like, just take the time, see a dermatologist and have them recommend a routine or audit your existing routine.
- [32:15]
Naima Raza
What I found is like vitamin C for people with my kind of skin. It's very bad, actually. It's like adding on and it's going to cause breakouts for me. But in that concentration, especially of C for ellic, a little bit of vitamin C and a moisturizer is fine for me and sometimes I'll do or a mask, but it can't be every day. So my skincare routine is now that routine. And then obviously spf, my body care routine. I do go to this thing called endermology, which is like a lymphatic drainage that claims to like help with like cellulite and just like. But I go to this great woman Lori in New York, and it's like a machine that they. I do the shorty, which is like, they focus on basically like you're right under your breasts to your thighs and it's just like lymphatic drainage. And lymphatic drainage is something I started doing in Vietnam and I got super into when I was living in Vietnam in my 20s and just like loved it. It was a lot cheaper there, but loved it. And I do believe in it. And I also just moisturize like crazy. I hear you talking a lot about that on your show.
- [33:09]
Brooke Devard
It's very important.
- [33:10]
Naima Raza
Yeah, you're always like, body care is this new discovery. But for black women, you're like, it's been.
- [33:14]
Brooke Devard
We've always been moisturized from head to toe.
- [33:16]
Naima Raza
Yes, head to toe. Actually. Tamsen Fadal told me as you get older and you like, your hormones decline and especially in your 50s. Like, I think she was quoting Naomi, that Naomi Watts, and she said you go dry from like scalp to vag.
- [33:28]
Brooke Devard
Oh my God.
- [33:29]
Naima Raza
I know. Scary.
- [33:30]
Brooke Devard
I need to do a whole episode on menopause and perimenopause because I realize it's something that I don't know that much about. And it's coming for all of us, right?
- [33:38]
Naima Raza
Yes. That's what I am learning. It's going to come for all of us. And she gave us like a five point test, which I won't remember. You can go back and look into depth.
- [33:46]
Brooke Devard
I don't feel like it's interesting that it's not discussed. Like, I feel like it's this black box. Like I have no idea what to expect for menopause and perimenopause.
- [33:54]
Naima Raza
Yeah, me neither. Until I did this episode and I asked her all my dumb questions. I'm like, is menopause just puberty in reverse? And like, can you get pregnant after menopause? And she's just like, wow, you really need to be educated girl. And look, menopause was never spoken about, right? Like, I have a sister who's 18 years older to me and I think she's now. Like, I don't want to disclose her, but like, it's like that's the first time I heard about menopauses recently from talking to her about it. And I then went and asked my mom, like, when did you have this happen? You know? And it was like in her late 50s and so it's interesting. And then I have a friend who is in her, who's 39 and she just had cancer and she's in early menopause because her ovaries shut down through the process of all the radiation therapy that she had. And she will not be having a period anymore, which is basically the definition of menopause, I've learned. But then now there's this conversation about perimenopause, which is this like era, like 10.
- [34:43]
Brooke Devard
That's like before menopause happens, correct?
- [34:45]
Naima Raza
Yes. And like, I think Tamson was saying something like, basically there's a five point test that she had for it, which is like, do you have scattered periods? Are you having sleepless nights? Do you get hot or night sweat? Do you have like brain fog? And then your age, like that really is like, starts in your very late 30s to like early 40s.
- [35:00]
Brooke Devard
Brain fog is part of it too. That's looking forward to. Okay, great.
- [35:03]
Naima Raza
Yeah. But that can also be a side effect of like having babies. I've heard. So yeah, that can be a lot of things. And so it was like all. It was like having a majority of those things was her layman's test for it. I always get a little skeptical in these worlds where I'm like, are we inventing? Is this a real thing I need to focus on and invest behind, or is this something that's like a commercial opportunity for people to start selling me stuff?
- [35:25]
Brooke Devard
You know, I think it's just important as women that we know is coming. And I think the more educated we are about it, the better off we'll be. Yeah.
- [35:32]
Naima Raza
And it's crazy that, like, we didn't talk about it at all. Like, I didn't know anything about menopause until two years ago when the New York Times ran a story about it and the story was about dispelling the idea that hormone replacement therapy caused breast cancer. Something that had been proven by science like a decade plus before. But when that original news report, there was this original news report that there was a study that linked hormone replacement therapy, which is the number one treatment for menopause for menopausal women, to breast cancer. And then that was debunked. But the debunking never got the headlines that the like, wow, the fake news got basically, you know, so in that world, like it was this two years ago, I think 2023 article, or 2022 maybe article that bust opened the door and was like, all these women are being denied treatment for menopause because of some misinformation that has been scientifically debunked and reported on. But we are not informing and talking about it in our medical communities or in our cultural communities enough for women to get the right care that they need. So I think that you're absolutely right and like, the important thing is just being as informed as possible about your own body. And I think that's why I like egg freezing as well as a concept is I know it's a luxury, I know it's expensive, but I think anytime we have the opportunity to just learn a bit more about our body and I think, you know, a lot of this is instinctive and like a lot of capitalism is fear mongering and selling you stuff, but like, you'll know in your body. And I knew in my egg freezing cycle, like, I knew that I. That I didn't want to be on the birth control pill as a timing or suppression mechanism because it had like, I never reacted well to the pill. So, like, I feel like you know a lot about your own body.
- [37:01]
Brooke Devard
Absolutely.
- [37:02]
Naima Raza
Yeah.
- [37:03]
Brooke Devard
This is like a hard pivot into makeup.
- [37:05]
Naima Raza
Makeup. Let's talk makeup favorites. Oh, hair care. Okay. Love oribe just like the simple signature shampoo conditioner. And they have this new product called arancier which I haven't used today, but it gives this like mirror shine to it that I really like. I love their foundation mist. I'm like a total oribe girly everything oribe on hair. And then I use their hairspray, which I probably haven't put on today. My hair is probably all over the place. Just not going to look at it. And I do also use argan oil.
- [37:30]
Brooke Devard
I love argan oil.
- [37:31]
Naima Raza
Yeah, I basically oil my hair once or twice a week and do that instead of conditioning often. So I'LL just do oil, like put my hair in a braid, like sleep like the night before the cleaner comes kind of thing. And then I will wash it off, not use a conditioner and use that arinsair, that mirror rinse, I think it's called from Oribe sets my hair. And then hopefully one day Hedda is gonna be added to the routine, which I've heard it also helps with thickening hair as well.
- [37:57]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [37:57]
Naima Raza
And then maybe this red light therapy. If I ever open the box and put it in my head, I'll send you a photo if I do it. And then makeup. Luminous skin foundation from Giorgio Armani.
- [38:06]
Brooke Devard
Armani Perfect in love. Just such a beautiful foundation.
- [38:10]
Naima Raza
Love it, love it, love it. I recently went to where you carry. Where do you carry Naked beauty.
- [38:15]
Brooke Devard
Creative beauty.
- [38:16]
Naima Raza
Yeah, creative beauty. To do like a little makeup consultation. Because I just recently started getting into eyeshadow, which I've never worn since I was like 15 years old and listening to like aqua. And now I got this RMS flare color gold.
- [38:29]
Brooke Devard
I love RMS a little bit there.
- [38:31]
Naima Raza
And products I couldn't live without is like hourglass brow. The Chanel dual intensit, like double lip color. Super lasting and like, oh, wet n wild. Like, doesn't break eyeliner.
- [38:44]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [38:45]
Naima Raza
So if I had to do three products, it would be that. And then if I could add in a fourth, it would be the luminous skin foundation.
- [38:49]
Brooke Devard
Okay. Love it.
- [38:50]
Naima Raza
That would be it. That's my makeup routine.
- [38:52]
Brooke Devard
I mentioned in your intro that you were dating in New York, like Carrie Bradshaw. What. What is the dating pool like? And do men appreciate all of the beauty treatments and the, the effort put into the look?
- [39:03]
Naima Raza
You know, this is like the thing about. I'm fascinated by how much of beauty. I feel beauty has been trying to push it as a category into men, but it's really like, only fully made it in, like, the gay male community.
- [39:14]
Brooke Devard
Absolutely.
- [39:15]
Naima Raza
And gay men, to me are like, they are the saving grace of all women. I. I like to think I'm like, is the alliance between gay men and straight women over, like, it's def. Not that Stanford Carrie Bradshaw relationship. Stanford Carrie Bradshaw relationship anymore. Because, like, they don't need us anymore. They don't. The gay men have surpassed us.
- [39:31]
Brooke Devard
Yes. And gay men have also done so much to shape the beauty industry.
- [39:35]
Naima Raza
Oh, for sure. And fashion and everything.
- [39:37]
Brooke Devard
They're contributing everything aesthetic.
- [39:39]
Naima Raza
Everything aesthetic. And I just say, like, it's like I say to my boyfriend sometimes. I'm like, you know, gay men are an example of what men could be if Men just tried hard, Men tried harder. Like, gay men are the example of, like, what men could look like. It's, you know, it's like women are just expected to be so beautiful, so perfect in every way. And it's such, like, it's something that just like, breaks you. And the freedom of. I think your 30s is like, realizing, oh, I don't need to be perfect all the time anymore.
- [40:04]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [40:04]
Naima Raza
And I've heard you talk about this, like, going from being, like, the sense you have to be flawless to being, like, embracing of your flaws.
- [40:09]
Brooke Devard
Absolutely.
- [40:10]
Naima Raza
And I certainly believe that. But I do still have, like, a very high standard for myself, and I think it'll be even higher as I get in my 40s or 50s. Like, I think I'll have an even, like, higher standard of beauty to keep myself to. And it is frustrating that men, I think they don't really. I don't know if they really appreciate it, but I think that they don't have to invest in it. That's what gets me mad is the economics of it.
- [40:31]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [40:31]
Naima Raza
It's like the pink tax, you know?
- [40:33]
Brooke Devard
Yes.
- [40:34]
Naima Raza
And I think dating has been really transformed by this aesthetic culture, like, dating apps. Women never really, I don't think, chose their partner purely on the basis of, like, looks. Like, if you read Jane Austen, like, that's not what it's about at all.
- [40:45]
Brooke Devard
And I never dated with dating apps, so I don't even know what it was like. So what is.
- [40:50]
Naima Raza
I hadn't either till I was like, 31 and single for the first time.
- [40:53]
Brooke Devard
So what is. Do you go off of picture? Do you?
- [40:55]
Naima Raza
I mean, I don't really date on the dating apps. I really only did it during Pandemic, and I date on Raya a little bit. But, like, I mostly date in real life. And I have such a social life that I'm like, out meeting people all the time, but I go to so many events for work. And so most of the people I meet is, as one ex boyfriend called it, it's shopping, cage free, organic. It's like in the wild. And so that's it. I do. Dating is so much fun. I've kind of contemplated, is New York City the worst place to date or is it just the best place to be single?
- [41:22]
Brooke Devard
That's a really interesting question because it's so much fun to be single in New York.
- [41:26]
Naima Raza
Yeah. You know, like, I mean, it's just like, it is so fun, and it's also so fun to date in New York. Like, I love going on first dates, but I am a lobster. I like to be partnered. And I do. You know, like, I've been in relationships most of my life. I do think it was important for me to spend time in my 30s, single, because I hadn't had that in my 20s at all really. And I feel like my career in the last year, like six, seven years has gotten to a place where I'm like, oh. Like I never invested in it the same way I was never. I always saw it as secondary to like a partner's career or whatever until I was, you know, single and kind of ambitious in my 30s in New York. And that has given me like a whole new life.
- [42:00]
Brooke Devard
Well, you were certainly very ambitious. What do you do to slow down and take care of yourself? Sleep. Sleep.
- [42:06]
Naima Raza
Number one beauty hack.
- [42:07]
Brooke Devard
Okay.
- [42:07]
Naima Raza
Eight plus hours of sleep.
- [42:08]
Brooke Devard
What time do you go to sleep?
- [42:10]
Naima Raza
Oh, one in the morning.
- [42:11]
Brooke Devard
Okay. And then you sleep until 9, 10. Okay. Love that. See, I like these people that talk about going to sleep at 9pm I'm like, I could never.
- [42:18]
Naima Raza
No, never. Even when I'm like in a relationship, I will like go to bed at like 10pm or something with my boyfriend and then I will wake up. Like I'll like pretend sleep and then I'll wake up at like midnight. And I love these like two hours between midnight and two where I'm like doing things, folding laundry, doing work without being interrupted. Like I, I get my highest creative energy and particularly if I'm writing or conceiving anything. You know, not conceiving a baby, but maybe at that hour too. But like it's that 12 to 2 window where I'm like super productive.
- [42:44]
Brooke Devard
It's so important for you to say this because I feel like there is such propaganda around mornings and being an early morning person and like you've gotta like wake up at 5am to like catch your crate. And I'm like, I'm not this person and I'm never, I can't train myself to be this person.
- [42:57]
Naima Raza
How are you doing it now with kids?
- [42:58]
Brooke Devard
I mean, I just power through, but I'm certainly not getting creative idea. Like I'm up early as well. Like obligation. Like it's not like, oh, this is so nice. The sunrise. Like I'm like, oh my gosh, give me coffee.
- [43:09]
Naima Raza
I know.
- [43:10]
Brooke Devard
Yeah.
- [43:10]
Naima Raza
How can we? There was some research that showed like people who stay up later. I saw this on puberty. So it's like well researched information. But like on, on the Instagram page for puberty, they had a study that was like people who stay up later are actually smarter. And I sent it to all my morning people friends because every single like case study you read is about a CEO waking up at 5 in the morning, like read their 15 newspapers and work out. It's like I work out at 2 in the afternoon with all the yummy mummies.
- [43:36]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [43:36]
Naima Raza
Okay. And then I just like live a much more evening based life.
- [43:40]
Brooke Devard
Same.
- [43:40]
Naima Raza
That's very Pakistani too. Like I ate dinner at 10pm 9pm as a kid.
- [43:44]
Brooke Devard
Yes, yes, yes.
- [43:46]
Naima Raza
Yeah, we should band together and fight morning oppression.
- [43:48]
Brooke Devard
Yes, we need to fight the morning oppressions. Final question.
- [43:52]
Naima Raza
Yes.
- [43:52]
Brooke Devard
When do you feel your most beautiful?
- [43:54]
Naima Raza
Oh, gosh. Yeah, you asked that. I should have known because you asked that. When do I feel my most beautiful? You know, I feel my most beautiful probably in the presence of my family, like my parents, my dad is now gone. But I, even when I look at photos of myself, like being a daughter or like being a sister, I think that's the most beautiful version of me. Like that's the one, that's the person I aspire to like bring into all my other relationships. Because I think one, there's the unconditional love and the confidence that my parents instilled in me. But there's just like something that, that being in the presence of love gives you like a glow that no amount of Armani Luminous Skip foundation is going to give you. And there's like a video I have from my birthday in 2018 where my dad is. My dad loves to blow out everybody else's candles. Like where my dad and my mom are like singing to me. And my mom's like hand is on my cheek and she kind of pats it. And my dad's like waiting to blow the candles and I'm waiting for him to blow the candles and not even look. And I just like love. That's the photo or video in which I feel, feel is most beautiful. And I also like video more than photos. Stills.
- [44:55]
Brooke Devard
Okay. Okay.
- [44:56]
Naima Raza
Yeah.
- [44:56]
Brooke Devard
Well, as a filmmaker that makes sense.
- [44:58]
Naima Raza
Yeah. And that's like, as a filmmaker that, that is the thing. And when I do documentaries and one of the things I want to say on this beauty podcast is I think there's this obsession with anti aging. And like even I'm like a person who I, I don't like to share my age. I want to be ageless forever. But like I do think that signs of wear and tear, signs of life lived, are the most beautiful things. And when I interview old people is my absolute favorite person to interview is like someone who has, has like wrinkles in their eyes and like that beauty of like life lived. And I always think, like, Instagram content can be so annoying. No matter. I. I have this like, cut essay in me that I need to write which is like, I hate everyone on Instagram, especially myself. But the people you do not hate on Instagram are old people, like the gram fluencers.
- [45:38]
Brooke Devard
Right.
- [45:38]
Naima Raza
There's something so beautiful and like wise in that life. And so I do think we live in a society where we're constantly hiding the look look of our age and the fear of that is like you take away the emotion and the life and the experience and the wisdom out of your face. Yeah, you know?
- [45:55]
Brooke Devard
Absolutely. So beautifully said. Well, Naima, thank you so much for being on Naked Beauty.
- [45:59]
Naima Raza
Thank you so much for having me. Brooke. I loved it.
- [46:02]
Brooke Devard
Yes, thank you.
- [46:21]
Paige
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- [46:59]
Naima Raza
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