Sometimes Skincare is Rocket Science ft. Desiree Stordahl of Paula’s Choice

Summary

Naked Beauty Podcast Episode Summary: "Sometimes Skincare is Rocket Science" Featuring Desiree Stordahl of Paula’s Choice

Release Date: August 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Naked Beauty podcast, host Brooke DeVard sits down with Desiree Stordahl, the Senior Research and Education Manager at Paula’s Choice. The conversation delves deep into the science behind skincare, exploring effective ingredients, personalized routines, and the importance of activism and representation in the beauty industry.

Guest Background: Desiree Stordahl

Desiree shares her journey into the beauty industry, highlighting her personal struggles with acne and the extensive research she undertook to find effective skincare solutions. “[It] wasn’t a clear-cut career path,” Desiree explains ([05:19]). Her passion for understanding skincare ingredients led her to her current role, where she focuses on educating consumers and developing research-backed products at Paula’s Choice.

Understanding Key Skincare Ingredients

1. Peptides ([21:28] - [22:53])

Peptides are small chains of amino acids that play a crucial role in maintaining skin health. Desiree emphasizes their versatility in targeting various skin concerns:

“Peptides can help with brightening, firming, and reducing wrinkles. They’re also preventative, helping to keep skin strong over time” ([21:28]).

She warns against expecting peptides to provide dramatic changes like a facelift but acknowledges their significant role in supporting collagen and elastin.

2. Retinol ([22:55] - [24:05])

Retinol is hailed as a powerhouse ingredient for its multifaceted benefits:

“Retinol is the generalist. It helps with skin renewal, wrinkles, discolorations, and even has anti-acne properties” ([22:55]).

Desiree advises starting with lower concentrations, especially for those new to retinol, and notes her personal experience of achieving noticeable results within weeks.

3. Niacinamide ([24:21] - [26:07])

Niacinamide, a form of Vitamin B3, offers multiple skin benefits, particularly for those with oily skin:

“Niacinamide can tighten enlarged pores, brighten skin, and reduce inflammation. It’s a true workhorse in skincare” ([24:21]).

Desiree recommends Paula’s Choice 20% Niacinamide Booster for its effectiveness, suggesting those with sensitive skin may start with a 10% concentration.

4. AHAs and BHAs ([27:25] - [32:26])

Desiree differentiates between Alpha Hydroxy Acids (AHAs) and Beta Hydroxy Acids (BHAs):

“AHAs are best for normal to dry, sun-damaged skin, while BHAs are ideal for oily and acne-prone skin” ([27:25]).

She explains that BHAs are oil-soluble and penetrate pores more effectively, making them suitable for treating blackheads and breakouts. Additionally, she highlights the importance of pH levels in ensuring these acids are both effective and gentle on the skin.

5. Vitamin C ([32:32] - [36:14])

Vitamin C is celebrated for its antioxidant properties and skin-brightening effects:

“Vitamin C is a powerful antioxidant that brightens skin and combats wrinkles. Stability is key—airtight, opaque packaging is essential” ([32:32]).

Desiree advises using Vitamin C products within three months of opening and pairing them with ferulic acid and Vitamin E to enhance stability and efficacy.

6. Sunscreen ([36:43] - [38:58])

Sunscreen remains a cornerstone of effective skincare:

“Sunscreen is the number one thing that ages skin. It’s essential for every skin type, rain or shine” ([36:43]).

She recommends using SPF 30 to 50 and emphasizes the importance of reapplying, especially when exposed to direct sunlight. Desiree also notes the advancements in sunscreen formulations that prevent white casts and offer more pleasant textures.

Personalized Skincare Routines

Desiree advocates for tailoring skincare routines to individual needs:

“Do what works for you. A routine that’s effective for one person may not be for another” ([40:44]).

She emphasizes that skincare is not one-size-fits-all and encourages listeners to adjust their routines based on skin type, concerns, and hormonal changes.

Career Journey and Passion for Research

Desiree recounts her transition from sales and marketing to research at Paula’s Choice, driven by her passion for skincare science:

“I showed Paula how passionate I was and my willingness to learn, even without a cosmetic chemistry background” ([18:31]).

Her dedication was recognized through multiple interviews, ultimately leading to her role in product development and consumer education.

Activism and Representation in Beauty

The conversation addresses the critical role of diversity and representation in the beauty industry:

“Representation holds a special place in my heart. It’s about showing solidarity and valuing every skin tone” ([45:36]).

Desiree discusses ongoing efforts at Paula’s Choice to improve inclusive hiring practices and ensure that marketing materials authentically represent all consumers. She highlights the importance of open dialogues and listening to marginalized voices to drive meaningful change.

Skincare During Life Changes

Pregnancy and Skincare ([10:11] - [50:35])

Desiree shares how pregnancy positively affected her skin but also discusses the challenges faced postpartum with hormonal acne:

“During pregnancy, my skin thrived, but postpartum hormonal changes led to unexpected cystic acne” ([10:11]).

She underscores the necessity of adjusting skincare routines during significant hormonal shifts and the importance of consulting with healthcare professionals about ingredient safety.

Product Favorites and Recommendations ([50:40] - [56:31])

Desiree highlights her top skincare and makeup products:

• Paula’s Choice BHA Liquid Skin Perfector: A top performer for treating breakouts and improving skin texture.
• 20% Niacinamide Booster: Highly effective for tightening pores and brightening skin.
• Lip and Body Balm: Renowned for its rich hydration.
• Cosrx Pimple Patches: Ideal for preventing blemish picking.
• Mac Water Weight Studio Foundation with SPF 30: A favorite for its lightweight feel and sun protection.
• Kosas Cream Blush and Fenty Beauty Senna Lip Paint: Praised for their durability and clean formulations.

Desiree emphasizes the balance between clean ingredients and effective formulations, ensuring that makeup products are both skin-friendly and performance-oriented.

Trends and Opinions

Desiree critiques certain beauty trends that lack scientific backing:

“Facial massage devices like Face Gym can be harsh on the skin. It’s important to use evidence-based practices” ([53:37]).

She advises listeners to use common sense and judgment when exploring new beauty trends, prioritizing their skin’s health over fads.

Final Thoughts: What Makes You Feel Most Beautiful ([56:42] - [57:31])

Desiree concludes by reflecting on the deeper aspects of beauty:

“True beauty comes from within—compassion, empathy, and kindness” ([56:42]).

She emphasizes that while skincare and makeup are valuable, they should complement the internal qualities that truly define beauty.

Key Takeaways

1. Adapt Your Skincare to Your Cycle: Recognize how hormonal changes, such as menstrual cycles and pregnancy, impact your skin and adjust your routine accordingly.

2. Tailor Solutions for Oily Skin: Utilize clay and charcoal masks, choose lightweight gel formulations, and avoid harsh cleansers to manage oiliness effectively.

3. Choose the Right Exfoliants: Understand the differences between AHAs and BHAs, and ensure products are within the proper pH range for optimal effectiveness and gentleness.

4. Consistent Ingredient Use is Beneficial: Beneficial skincare ingredients remain effective without the need for frequent changes, similar to how a balanced diet consistently supports health.

5. Personalization Over Rigid Routines: Skincare should be personalized. What works for one person may not work for another, and it's essential to listen to your skin's needs.

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Thank you for reading! This episode of Naked Beauty offers a comprehensive look into the science of skincare, providing valuable insights and practical advice for enhancing your beauty regimen. Whether you're a skincare novice or a seasoned enthusiast, Desiree Stordahl's expertise from Paula’s Choice is a treasure trove of knowledge to help you achieve healthier, more radiant skin.

Transcript

[Brooke Devard]

Hello. Hello, it's Brooke Devard, and you're listening to the Naked Beauty Podcast. Welcome back for another episode. How is everyone feeling? I hope you guys are able to take moments for self, care for joy. So many of you have written to me and shared that listening to this podcast has provided you peace and calm in the past few weeks, and I so appreciate that, and it keeps me motivated to keep going. Now, I think one thing that unites a lot of Naked Beauty listeners is we love skincare, right? We love skincare, but we want to get beyond surface level recommendations. And, oh, this product is popular because it's in a magazine or some influencer told us to buy it. We love research, we love knowledge, and. And I had a chance to interview for this podcast Desiree Stordahl. She's an author, but she's the senior research and Education manager at Paula's Choice. I'm sure we all know Paula's Choice. I've used their products for years, and I have loved Paula's Choice products. But Desiree just brought so many gems to the table. If you are tempted to take out your notebook, open your notes up on your phone and start taking notes as you listen to this episode, please, please do so. But also know that at the end of the episode, I have takeaways because there's a lot of information to be absorbed in this conversation. I'm also going to be posting clips, video clips from my chat with Desiree on the Instagram account for this podcast. That's akidbeauty Planet. I always love talking to you guys over there, but yeah, just I love talking to someone about skincare that knows the science behind it, that can break down to different ingredients and what they do. So I know you guys, especially the skincare junkies, are going to love this episode. We also get into makeup, too. I love a woman who can do both, who knows not just about skincare, but also makeup. One of the things that I love about this platform I've created, Naked Beauty, is that there is opportunity to discuss activism and representation in beauty and the areas where we need to make strides in terms of racial equality. As I mentioned, I will be integrating this topic into conversations with many of my guests, specifically my white guests, so that I can better understand what steps they're taking to use their privilege to really ignite real change. And I was so happy that Desiree spoke on this topic and shared her thoughts with me as we recorded this. And I've been talking to a lot of you on my Instagram account about how you're doing. And I think, I think a lot of you have shared with me that it's been a really tough time, but that you are actively trying to carve out moments to take care of yourself and that sometimes skincare and beauty is a nice distraction. But you know, I think skincare is so important. I think taking care of ourselves, nurturing our skin, loving our skin, doing that self education work is so important. I always talk about how important it is in your skincare journey to do the work, to better understand what's going on your skin, how it helps your skin, what you should be avoiding and why. And if you're invested in that self education, you're just going to love this conversation with Desiree. I can't say enough good things about it. Thank you everyone who has gone above and beyond to just share this podcast in the past week. The last episode, Black Beauty Experiences. I got such incredible feedback. I saw so many of you sharing that to your Instagram stories. I thank you for the support. I thank you to everyone who took the time to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts. That means the world to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Let's get into the conversation with Desiree. Don't forget to stay tuned for my takeaways at the very end.

[Desiree Stordahl]

So, Desiree, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. You are the senior research and education manager at Paula's Choice, a brand we all know and love. But I just love that your role is dedicated to educating people about skin care ingredients, skin care products, because that's something I talk about on Naked Beauty all the time. Like we have to know what we're putting on our skin and why it works, why it doesn't work. So I love that. That's just like your whole position that.

Grew out of, you know, a passion of mine because when I was growing up, I was putting all the wrong things on my skin. And no matter how hard I tried to do the research, it's difficult when you're a one man show you really, it takes a village. It takes a lot of people out there looking at the research, pouring over the research, making sure the research is peer reviewed and published rather than just like some marketing that a company puts out. So it's a lot, it's a lot for one person to do. And that's why at Paul's Choice, there's a whole team of us.

Yes. So you've, you've dedicated your career in so many years to working in the beauty industry. And I'M always so fascinated by people that choose to work in beauty. I'm like 25% there with this podcast. I work in tech full time, but I love beauty. I'm so passionate about it. But growing up, like, what made you think, like, I want to work in beauty? Was it something that you grew up knewing you wanted to do? Eventually?

It wasn't some, like, clear cut career path that I was going to take. It was more so, you know, I had acne, so again, I was always looking for what products were going to give me results. We didn't have a lot of money growing up, so I needed to make sure whatever I was putting on my face was give me a good bang for my buck. So that really is what started my path down, researching ingredients. But it wasn't necessarily something I knew that I was going to do with my life. I just, I had a passion for it. I also happen to love makeup. So, like, the whole beauty sphere is something that I'm truly, genuinely interested in. But the way I got there, I just never even would have guessed.

So what made it kind of click for you that what we put on our skin is so important? Because I think a lot of people are just happy to use products that other people recommend to them and they don't take the time to like, turn over the label and read what's in the skin care.

Part of it was trial and error, right? So like one of the things I did growing up was because I had acne, I thought I could dry it out. I thought I could use, you know, alcohol based toners. Shout out to the sea breezes of the world. Yeah, use that back in the day, knows how much that stripped your skin.

Or like the Stridex acne pad. Those words.

Oh my gosh. And all they ended up doing was making my skin more oily and inflaming my skin more. So it was kind of like learning through that trial and error phase. But once, once I found Paula's choice and once I really dug into what the brand was all about and started reading Paula's original, original beauty Bible book, I just learned so much. Especially how even, you know, if you can't see or feel irritation, it can be happening to your skin on the lower layers and what that does to skin over time. So to your point of like X, Y and Z, person puts this on their face and their skin's fine, they can handle it. Well, a lot of times those ingredients aren't going to show their repercussions for years down the road. Just like it takes, you know, years of sun damage for those repercussions to show up. It's true of irritating ingredients, ingredients that are inflaming your skin. So I think it was like some of my own personal experience joined with really just finding out what the truth is and what the research out there says.

Absolutely. I can remember one of the early Paula's Choice products that I discovered was the BHA 2% Skin Perfecting Liquid exfoliator. People will ask me like, oh, should I buy this, should I buy that? And there are very few things that I say without any, you know, endorsement. No, like paint. Like you need to buy this product because it changed my skin within maybe three weeks of using it. Like I have never had skincare with dramatic results like that. Now I can't use it now because I'm pregnant and I have to limit my, my acids. But that is like one of those products that you just use it and you're just like, wow, like the difference it makes in your skin texture is unbelievable.

I don't like to say overnight results because that's over promising for a lot of products, but BHA is actually one of the things that you can say that about. And that 2% BHA liquid is what changed my skin. You know, when I was having that really acne prone skin and I started on Paula's Choice, that was my first product and that is really what was like the hook, line and sinker for me. Just seeing my breakouts clear up, seeing how much smoother my skin was, waking up and feeling how much smoother my skin was. It's such a game changer when you've gone from like having those insecurities about your skin to actually feeling comfortable in your skin.

Such a game changer now. So how do you use that product? Do you just do it at night after you've washed your face? You do cotton pad. What's your preferred application method?

Okay, so I used to be a cotton pad girl, but I'm trying to limit my use from a sustainability standpoint. So I am more putting it in my palm of my hand and applying it in terms of like day versus night usage. It really depends on what's going on. So near my period I always tend to break out more. So I will ramp up my use morning and night when it's around that time, but otherwise I just use it at night. I do it after my toning step and then from there I just kind of move on to everything else. That's one thing I like to clear up for people is they often ask, do I need to wait between applying, you know, my beta hydroxy acid or my alpha hydroxy acid and everything else I'm using? Then you don't have to. Nothing else is going to deactivate it or negate the results of it. Just move right along.

And I'm so happy you brought up this point about when you're on your period because you can have an amazing skin care regimen and do everything right, but that time of the month, just because of our home runs, can just throw our skin off. And it's not like I feel like there is this almost false sense of having perfect skin like that, that there's this ability to achieve perfect skin skin year round. But there are some things that just always throw it off.

There are always things, you know, like right now with you in pregnancy, I'm curious to know if your skin has changed at all or if you just have the pregnancy glow, which is what it looks like right now.

Thank you. You know, it's so interesting. Since I've been pregnant, I haven't had any breakouts, which is really like a miracle. I don't know why. I just haven't had any breakouts. It's not like I'm not eating sugar. I definitely am. So yeah, my skin has been actually like really thriving and it's really like forced me to realize that like I was using a lot of like retinols and a lot of the stuff that I thought that I depended on to have great skin I don't necessarily need now. It'll be interesting once I'm not pregnant, right, to see how my skin changes because I think pregnancy. And I'm also taking prenatal vitamins. Like vitamins is also a big thing. Like I'm just being pumped with way more vitamins than I've ever had before. So my nails are growing longer, my hair is growing more. But yeah, overall it's been, it's been great. Do you have children?

I have a six year old and I have a one and a half year old.

Okay. How did, how did pregnancy change your skin?

So my first daughter is biological, my second daughter is adopted. So I only have, you know, the skin changes from the first pregnancy, but my skin actually did pretty well throughout pregnancy. It wasn't until after, during breastfeeding and the are some hormonal surges that go on during postpartum that my acne really flared up. And it flared up in strange ways. Like I don't normally get breakouts on my neck I was even getting breakouts on my neck. So it was something clearly hormonal out of the normal. And it was a struggle because you're already feeling tired and just kind of beat down. So to be quite honest, you don't feel your normal self. You don't feel beautiful. And then on top of all that, I just had this like major cystic acne come on. And luckily it ended up going away. But it wasn't, wasn't one of the side effects, I guess that I expected to have and especially like somebody like me who I know everything that there is that you can possibly do. But when it comes to that kind of cystic acne, that could go beyond the realm of skincare, where it's like you could use all the BHA in the world and it's not getting rid of that deep rooted acne.

Right. And while you're pregnant, you're not supposed to use salicylic acid either. Right.

In high concentrations. And of course you always, we always say check with your personal physician and see what they recommend. But concentrations of, you know, 2% and lower are generally recognized as safe. But we just, as a word of caution, say check with your physician.

Okay, yeah, yeah, I think that, I think that makes sense. And I have asked my physician for some advice and they generally say like, depending on the percentage that it's fine. Like they look at most of my stuff and they're like, it's fine. Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of people kind of freak out. Okay, so I want to talk about your role doing research because I think that's so interesting because you're actually like close to like, I guess maybe just help me understand what that role even means. Like, are you like in a lab? Are you talking to product developers? How, how close are you to the actual formulations? What does it all entail?

So my role, one of the really cool things about it is that I do get to wear so many different hats within the company. So I do have a role in product development where we have these ideation meetings where we're coming up with concepts for products and tweaking, you know, formulas and looking about what the newest research has to say on X, Y and Z ingredient and following, seeing what ingredients are trending and what actually has the research to back it up. So, so that's a small portion of my job. I'm not in the lab so much. We do have an in house lab, which is really cool and fun to be a part of, just to even go in there and see the actual formulas being put together. But I myself am not a cosmetic chemist. I don't have a role in actually doing those formulas. I get to be more on that ideation side. And then in terms of the research, a lot of it is for our article and our expert advice in terms of like skin conditions, everything under the sun that we can possibly talk about and educate people about whether or not we have products to help with it. We want to help give people that information. So hyperpigmentation, wrinkles, of course, acne that we've already talked about, dry, sensitive skin, you know, rosacea prone skin. Everything out there that people want to know, we want to have that research backed information for them.

[Brooke Devard]

Got it.

[Desiree Stordahl]

And I've heard you say that you have oily skin. And I know people listening are so sick of me talking about my dry skin. So it's nice to talk to someone that has oily skin. Is oily skin something that you can combat with skin care? Or is it something like, is it something that you can, I guess, essentially overcome, or is it something that you just have to constantly adapt your routine to make sure that, yeah, I guess. How do you do, how do you recommend dealing with oily skin?

You're never going to completely cure it.

Right.

So it is going to be something that you maintain with your skincare products. But there are definitely, you know, certain ingredients that are better suited to oily, prone skin than others. And a lot of it has to do with just choosing the right texture of products. So for somebody like me with that really oily skin, you want to think thin, fluid, lightweight textures. It could be watery based serum, it could be a liquid toner. A toner that's hydrating could be all you need for moisture. You might not necessarily need those creamy moisturizers that people with dry skin or people with normal skin need. So a lot of it is just like finding the right base of product and not getting super hung up on the ingredients. But then there are other things too, like you, you do maybe want some more absorbing, mattifying types of ingredients or, you know, a clay mask every once in a while or a charcoal mask every once in a while. Yeah, yeah.

So, but it's a little confusing for me also because your skin can be dehydrated, but you can also have oily skin and sometimes dehydration makes your skin oilier. So how can people with oily skin make sure that their moisture balance is in check, but they're not adding to the issue?

So for dehydration I always like to start with, are the products that you're using actually causing that dehydrated skin? And by that I mean going back to that discussion where, you know, back in the day I was using those stripping alcohol based toners. A lot of people use the witch hazel based toners, things like that that are stripping your skin so it feels parched and dry and sensitive underneath, but still is producing oil on top of. And then, you know, hopefully most of us aren't using bar soaps anymore, but there still are people using bar soaps on their face.

And I watched my husband, I watched my husband do it from time to time and it stresses me out. I'm like, we have all of these cleansers here and yet you are washing your face with the bar of soap.

He's like, it's fine, but guys are so lucky. Yeah, there's, there's some double standards that don't quite work for us all the time. But yeah, in terms of dehydration, once you've, you know, eliminated irritating ingredients that are not causing that dryness underneath in the oil on top. And if you really actually do just truly have that dehydrated skin, but you need compatible textures and formulas. I really like gels, gels for dehydrated skin and like really great moisturizing ingredients like hyaluronic acid and glycerin, those humectants that are going to help hydrate your skin and replenish your skin, but not make it heavy, greasy, occlusive, not add to the oiliness or shine that you already have on that top layer.

Okay, that's so helpful. Now you haven't always worked in research. You were in sales and marketing before, which is very different. How did you make that transition? Because I think it's a two part question. One, like, what made you want to go from sales and marketing to research? But also I think there's so many people listening that want to make shifts in their career. Like they may want to stay at the same company or in the same industry, but they want to like switch. Maybe they work in finance and they want to work in marketing. Like, how do you even make the case to your managers that you want to switch and be like in a different role?

For me, sales and marketing was actually even just like in a completely different industry. So it wasn't even switching within the same company. And part of it was situational. It was 2009 and we hit that economic depression and it forced me to make a career change. But what it Also did is it helped me to reevaluate what I was really passionate about. And I think that's the key. Lead with your passion, because it wasn't like I had this impressive beauty industry resume to show for myself to get the position that I did within Paula's Choice. You know, I didn't have all of those things going for me, but I interviewed with Paula eight times, which is very intense. Paula does her research, so there was no way. No way I was getting by with just one interview. But I showed her how passionate I was about it. I showed her also how hard I was willing to work and how much I wanted to learn, even if I didn't know. You know, even though I didn't have, like, an esthetician background or something like that or a cosmetic chemistry background, she didn't care. She just wanted to see that I had that drive and willingness to learn. And one of the great things about Paula is when she invests in you as a person, she really takes you under her wing. So she. I already had a degree, a communications degree, but she, you know, put me through online courses through UCLA just to sharpen certain skills that I had. And so I am eternally.

Yeah, she's.

She's still. Yeah, we still chat. She's still part of the company. She's the reason we all do what we do at Polish Choice. We want to carry on that legacy that she started of just helping people, helping them find the right things. And I think it was like, all of us who work there had some sort of skincare struggle at one point or another, and so we can all connect on that level. And that's really where Paula started the whole brand was. It was out of her own personal struggles.

Yeah, I love that. Okay, I want to get really specific with you about ingredients, because one of the things I love about Paula's Choice, as I mentioned before, is, like, getting down to, like, the specific ingredients, the different boosters. I've got, like, a whole Paula's Choice kit. I've used Paula's Choice for years, and actually it was a beauty editor who I trust so much. Her name is Ashley Weatherford. She's at into the Gloss.

I know who she is. I've met her before.

Yeah, doesn't she? Her skin is, like, unreal. It's like, what is. What is the skin that you have? But she's a big fan of polish. I was like, okay, if you're using it, I'm using it. So. But one of the things that, as I've continued To use that. I've loved learning about these different ingredients, niacinamide. And I just get so much education from you guys. So I want to go through different elements of skin care. And if you could just tell me like what they are, like what they do and why they're beneficial to your skin, that would be great.

Yeah.

Okay, so the first one is peptides.

Okay, so peptides are really cool because they come a really long way where with lab engineered peptides, they can actually create them to target specific receptor sites in your skin to target specific concerns. So there are peptides for brightening skin. There are peptides to help with sagging and firming. There are peptides to help with wrinkles. So never just look for like one peptide when somebody is selling you. You know, one peptide is like the end all, be all. That's not where it's at. You really want like a robust mix of them, but they are fascinating. I do want to back it up when I said that they can target sagging. This is one thing I always like to tell people is they can help with sagging to a certain extent, but never expect, like if you reach the point of jowls, for lack of a better word, they are not going to automatically lift that. It's not a facelift. You have to keep your expectations realistic. But it can help to a minor degree. And more than that, I think of them as like preventative as well. Like they're going to keep your skin stronger over time. They're going to help with elastin and collagen, all of these things that keep your skin looking young and healthy and supple.

Okay, great. Because I use your peptide booster, which I guess is a mix of different peptides and I just layered into my existing skin care and I feel like my skin is plumper afterwards.

Yes, Yep.

Okay.

That's definitely one of the things that can.

Okay, Retinol.

Okay. Retinol. Out of all ingredients out there, I kind of call it the generalist and that it can do so many different things for anti aging. So retinol versus, like where I was talking, where peptides don't count on just one because they all have like these different functions. Retinol is kind of the opposite of that. Retinol has so many different functions and so many different ways. It helps with, you know, renewing skin, helps with wrinkles, helps with discolorations, helps with smoothness. It has properties and research behind it for anti acne. It is just like if you needed to pick a one multitask or ingredient that was going to help your skin look healthy. Retinol is where it's at. Not everybody can tolerate high concentrations of retinol. So like a 1%, even though that sounds really low, that is actually a very high strength of retinol. And not everybody can jump right into that. You might need to use a lower strength or just use it, you know, once every few days. Because daily application of retinol can really, for some people be too much.

Yeah, I think dailies. I, when I was using it, I was doing like two to three times a week, and I found that to be sufficient.

Yeah.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay.

[Desiree Stordahl]

Niacinamide, which is, this is probably for me, my newest skincare discovery that I've integrated into my routine. And I do feel like I have fewer blemishes and breakouts. But talk to us about niacinamide.

So one of the really interesting things about niacinamide is that it's a cell communicating ingredient that can go in tell pores that have been stretched. They might have been stretched either from sun damage or from clogs. Just the aging process in general can kind of cause a pore to sag and stretch and get that orange peel texture on skin. So niacinamide can go in and truly help re tighten that enlarged pore and bring it back down to its normal shape and size. Now, it's not going to completely get rid of pores. You wouldn't want that to happen anyways. But. But it can definitely restore it to their normal shape and size. And then it also has a ton of research behind it for its brightening benefits, anti wrinkle benefits. It's vitamin B3, so it's an antioxidant as well. So it's one of those workhorse ingredients, especially for people like me with that really oily skin. We tend to love niacinamide because usually when you have oily skin, you also have enlarged pores.

I see. And you guys sell niacinamide in like a 10% strength and 20%, right?

Yes.

How should people go about deciding what strength, strength is right for them?

Well, this is not the answer the company would want me to say, but I'm just going to say go straight to that 20%. Nice and high. It is amazing. And I mean, I guess if you had super sensitive skin, maybe start out with the 10% and just see how you're doing. But for everybody else, just skip right up to that 20%. So a funny story of how that product even came to be was Paula Blood loved, loved our 10% nice. In my booster, she would joke around how she would take a bath if she could. And so she asked our lab to create a 20% concentration for her. So it was really just like something.

For her personal little stash. Yeah.

And then she saw the results from it and came back and was like, oh, hell no. We're making this, we're making this for everyone to have. And it took a little bit to get everybody on board just because like the nice and mag was already. The 10% was already doing so well. And like, do we really need to confuse customers by adding a higher percentage? But I'm so glad we did. It is, I would say in probably the top three products that I personally love and I personally use of our line, the 20% niacinamide is in there.

Really? Wow. Okay. And is niacinamide something people should apply during the day, at night? Where does it kind of fit into your skincare routine?

You can use it day and night. Really, it's up to you. Whenever you want to apply it. I will say with the 10 nights in my booster, it had has more of like a water light texture. So that one's like really nice for during the day versus the 20 is a more substantial texture that, you know, somebody like me with the oily skin, it might be like too shiny I guess you could say on their skin for during the day. So I personally use that one at night. But if you had drier skin, I don't think you would have to worry about it. You could really just do it day or night or above.

Okay, amazing. Next category. Hydroxy acid. So AHAs and BHAs.

Okay, so first I'll clarify that AHAs are best for normal to dry skin, sun damaged skin, and then BHAs are best for oily combination or anybody with breakouts or clogged pore type of issues. And the reason why is they both exfoliate the surface layer of skin. So you can count on that they're both going to break up the bonds of dead skin that are being trapped and held together on the surface. And then once that bond is broken, it allows it to slough off like it would before. All these things slow down our shedding process. Things like sun damage and skin conditions, even environmental stressors, they all slow down our skin's natural shedding process. So by getting rid of that built up dead layer, you get to just see that healthier, smoother skin hiding underneath. The difference between the two is that beta hydroxy acid is oil soluble, so it can go down into that pore. Penetrate the pore, basically help ungunk all that substance and dead skin and oil that's built up and getting trapped in there, which is leading to breakouts, which is leading to blackheads and all those clogs. So bha, that's why it's the preferred method. You know, if you have any sort of pore issues or that oily skin versus aha isn't going to penetrate into skin on that level. But they're both great. So you got to just kind of like see which one is right for you. Also, if you have sensitive skin, I recommend going the BHA route just due to its anti inflammatory properties. It just tends to be more soothing. Although they're both very gentle on skin.

I see, and these are both examples of chemical exfoliants, correct?

Yes, yes. Chemical exfoliants leave on exfoliants, exfoliation that you don't feel. So unlike the gritty scrap scrubs, the abrasive scrubs that can actually cause tiny micro tears in skin. This is even though that word acid sounds like it's going to be, you know, harsh on skin, they are completely gentle. If you get them in the right formula. PH matters. They need to be within a Ph of 3 to 4 to be gentle, to be effective. So that does, you know, not every product out there is created equal, but if you find a good one, it's going to be gentle on your skin.

Yeah. And I love that at Paula's Choice, you guys have the PH level of the products like there. It's clearly on the packaging so you can see the PH level. But yeah, a lot of skincare products don't say what the PH level is. What's the best way to figure out what the PH level of your liquid exfoliant is?

Let me see if I have PH test strips laying on my desk. My daughter was actually playing with them during quarantine. She's been PH testing everything in the house. But we have a PH meter at the office, so we have like the actual instrumentation and the tools it takes to PH test. If somebody really wanted to take it upon themselves, they could buy the PH strips even just off Amazon and you can dip them into the solution. As long as there's water in the products, you'll get a PH out of it. But it's hard for consumers because who realistically is carrying around ph test strips? And also you would have to buy the product in order to do that. So on beautypedia.com, which is our sister site, our review website, Anytime we test an aha or a BHA or a pha or any hydroxy acid, we ph test it for you so that you know if it's in that effective range. And we'll list that in the review.

Okay, so people should go to Beautypedia and put in the products that they're using to see what that PH level is.

Yeah, definitely.

And if the product is too acidic, how could that negatively impact the skin?

So when you fall outside that 3 to 4 ph range, you either get an ineffective product or you get a product that is too harsh, too irritating on skin. So when you're getting, you know, really acidic, you're going to hurt your skin's barrier. You're going to see more of that sensitivity, more of that redness, those kinds of irritation issues. And then when you go the other route, then it's just going to become less effective. So you really have to get it in that sweet spot. You don't want too much, you don't want too little. It's very important when it comes to acid.

Okay, and how often should you be using acids?

So it's a completely individual thing. There are people who do great with it on a daily basis and that works best for them. There are people who might only use it once every three days or maybe even once a week if it's a higher strength acid. So you kind of have to experiment around. The way you'll know if it's too much for your skin is you will feel that uncomfortable dryness, redness, you might get flaking, something like that. So if you're experiencing any of that, scale it back, temper it back. You might also need to try a different texture. So one of the things we do at Paula's Choice is, you know, we have lotion exfoliants and serum exfoliants and gels and liquids. So you have options because we know skin type isn't one, one size fits all. What is going to work best for my skin isn't going to work best. What's for your skin? So you really have, you know, customized, tailored options for you got it.

That BHA Liquid Skin Perfector. That. That must be one of you guys, its top product, right? It is.

It is the top product. And that's around the world. You know, we're sold in many different countries and that product always reigns the top. The results are just so dramatic and so instantaneous.

Yeah.

That it really is kind of like the gateway. And then people get to see all the other products we have because they tried that and they Felt that. Great.

Okay, last two.

Vitamin C. Vitamin C. Okay. So vitamin C is this really powerful antioxidant. Tons of research behind it for brightening skin. It does also happen to be a tricky ingredient to formulate with in terms of stability. So formulation does matter. When it comes to vitamin C, Ascorbic acid is a really great form of it. There are other forms, but what you need to make sure is it's in airtight, opaque packaging. Because as with any antioxidant, the second you know, you open up, say it were like a vitamin C in a clear jar. First of all, the light getting through breaks down the antioxidant. Say it were a vitamin C cream that came in a jar, and you open up that lid, will that air that's getting in there is allowing that antioxidant and that great expensive ingredient that you're paying for to break down prematurely. And also when it comes to jars, anytime you're dipping your finger in there, you're transferring bacteria.

Yeah.

That can further break down the formula.

I'm so not a fan of jars. I feel like all skin care companies. Like, I love a pump, I love, like, a serum with, like, a pipette. But, like, the jars just stress me out.

I love that because so many people don't know this jar issue. Like, we. I still have friends buying these, like, 200 creams, and I try to tell them, and sometimes they don't want to hear it. Like, they still want to buy their fancy cream. And then at that point, I'm like, go ahead, waste your money. Go ahead, waste your money.

And sometimes they'll come with this, like, really fancy little scooper. And I'm like, if that makes you feel better. But at the end of the day, we know it's still a jar. It's still, like, open to germs and contamination.

And yeah, and I bet you that half the people aren't using the scooper anyway.

Of course not. Of course.

Too lazy. You lose it. It gets dropped off somewhere. One other thing with vitamin C, again, it's like an amazing brightening ingredient. It's really great for wrinkles. But going back to the stability and just why formulation matters, another thing you want to look for with your vitamin C product is on the back somewhere on the packaging, whether it's on the outer carton or the product itself itself, there should be a little jar icon and it should have a number and then the letter M, and that will be the number of months you have to use it up. Once you open up that product before it's basically ineffective. So vitamin C products generally have a shorter life of that period after opening of like three months versus most of your other skincare products are going to last anywhere from six months to 12 months.

So I always tell people I had no idea.

Yes and no. Most people don't. And no, nobody looks on the back for that little jar icon. But that's why I tell people with your vitamin C product, don't be stingy with it. You know, don't like apply just a little bit every day because you want to really stretch out how long you have to use that product. Because if you're doing that, chances are, you know, at the end of the year that product that vitamin C has oxidized, it is not effective and as stable as it would have been if you used it up during the beginning. So look for the individual product. But most have like a three month period after opening date, especially if they're water based.

Yeah, that's so great to know. And I. A lot of vitamin C I see in conjunction with ferulic acid. Is there something about that combination that's better for the skin?

It is. So the ferulic acid helps stabilize the vitamin C and you'll often see it in combination with vitamin E as well. They both play a stabilizing role because again, since that vitamin C is such a delicate ingredient, it needs helps help of other antioxidants in the formula. And then those antioxidants, the ferulic acid and the vitamin E have their own benefits as well that just help amp up what the vitamin C is doing for your skin.

Okay, last one. Sunscreen.

Okay, sunscreen. Sunscreen. Sunscreen. This is something that is such a personal strong point and such a cornerstone to Paula's Choice because we know that the number one thing that ages skin, that robs your skin of its healthy tone, that leads to so many problems down the road is sun damage. And so.

And for all skin types too. I think a lot of times people think that when you have melanin or darker skin, you don't need sunscreen. But it's so important for every single skin type.

Absolutely. And that's why I love that now there are sunscreens that don't leave a white cast anymore. I know. Finally. And sunscreens that also don't feel like you're putting a thick paste on your skin. I know I, growing up, I avoided sunscreen like the plague because I knew it was going to make me break out. I knew it was going to feel heavy and greasy. And occlusive. And so sunscreens have come such a long way from the formulas of yesteryear. You have really great options out there now. Really great textures, beautiful finishes, clear finishes, glowy dewy finishes. So you have options and you just need to be doing it every day, rain or shine. I know it's not the funnest thing or the sexiest thing to have to put on every single day, but it will save your skin so much in the long run. And all these other, you know, key ingredients that you're buying to do great things for your skin, the sun damage is going to undo all that. So if you're not protecting your skin, you can forget about everything else because it's not going to have the effect that it should.

And is there a specific SPF that you recommend?

SPF number at least SPF 30. At least SPF 30. SPF 50 is great. You don't need to go to like a SPF 100. The amount of more SPF protection you get out of going up that high is like so minuscule. So somewhere in the SPF 30 to 50 range is really, really great.

And then also reapplying it, because I think that's another thing that I've learned from my dermatologist. It's not if you're going to be outside all day and you put it on in the morning, by one o', clock, you have to reapply your sunscreen. It doesn't just last magically on your skin forever.

And that is so hard for those of us who wear makeup because what are you supposed to do? Like wash off your face, then reapply, you know, all of your sunscreen? So I do really like, you know, powders with spf. There are sprays with spf. You do have to be careful with that with inhalation. So you gotta weigh out your pros and cons and your options there. But one good piece of advice is that if you're putting on your sunscreen in the morning, driving into the office, and you're in the office all day and you're not sitting right next to a window where the UV rays are getting in, you actually don't need to be reapplying your sunscreen every two hours. You know, it's not going to break down in that office light. It's really more about that direct sunlight outside. But again, that can come through on a cloudy, rainy day. So, you know, still needs to be done every day, rain or shine. But don't get too hung up on Thinking if you're in the office, you need to be reapplying it every two hours because it's not breaking down as quickly. It's not breaking down in the same way that it would in the direct sunlight.

Okay, that's really helpful to know. In talking to lots of dermatologists and kind of skincare experts, they all kind of have this ethos about less is more, which I will admit, Desiree, I really struggle with because, like, I love products. Like, I have more makeup products than I need. I have more hair products than I need. I have more skincare products than I need. I like switching it up. Like, I like layering. Like, I like it all. Do you agree with this idea that less is better for your skin? Is there, like, a recommended number of steps or products that you think a beauty buyer should have? Is there merit in my approach to, like, switching it up? Because I have this thing in my.

[Brooke Devard]

Head where I'm like, I don't want.

[Desiree Stordahl]

My skin to, like, get too used to this, so I'm gonna, like, hit it with some new stuff. Do you think that there is a recommended approach to, like, how many skincare products lead to optimal skin?

I'm more on your team where I say, do what works for you. Simple doesn't work for everyone. The skincare routine that I had in my twenties would not suffice now because I do need, like, my nice and my 20% that I was talking about. I didn't have my pore issues as enlarged as much of an issue back then. Or. Or I didn't even care about them back then, but now I do. And you would have to pry that product out of my tightly gripped hands to get me to stop using that. So it's such a personal thing. You can do just like your essential routine, or if you want to be extra and add on targeted treatments to address the things that concern you, I say go for that. Can there be overkill? Sure, of course. If you're putting, like, every potent active on your skin all at the same time, you know, all within your nightly routine, you could overdo it and you could tip the scales towards irritation. So you always have to listen to what your skin is telling you. But I will say, in terms of your question about, you know, needing to switch up ingredients because of your skin adapting to them or getting too used to them, you don't have to worry about that. Actually, research shows what's good for your skin is good for your skin. It's kind of like your diet. So, like, broccoli is good for you when you're 13. Broccoli, you can eat it all your life and it's still going to be good for you. You're still getting those nutrients. Skin care is the same way. That doesn't mean that our skin needs don't change. Obviously they do. So they change. You know, you might need to change up the formulas that you use, but it's not that your skin is adapting to them and that it's not going to be effective anymore.

Okay, that's so helpful to know. So what skin care ingredients are you excited about? When you think about the future and how Paula's Choice is going to interact with the next generation of beauty consumer, like, what are you excited about? Looking ahead.

So there's a lot of research coming out right now about estrogen deficient skin. So as we move into menopause and all the effects that that has on skin. Isoflavone, flavones, a lot of really cool ingredients that can help out with that. And they can help, for lack of a better word, trick your skin back into making that collagen. Because one of the things that happens with menopause is that skin does become thinner. Less elastin, there's less collagen production. And so those ingredients really can go back in and help jumpstart that process. And so that is something very unique and new to the skincare realm. I don't think you've really seen that done in this way before. It's a completely different, you know, mechanism of action than other types of ingredients. So I'm really, really excited to see where that goes. And then there's a lot of new skin brightening ingredients. Tranexamic acid I'm excited about.

What's that one?

Tranezemic acid.

Tranezenic acid. Okay. I'm sure, like, this time next year we'll all have that on the tips of our tongues, but I haven't heard of that. Okay.

Yeah. So, you know, that's one of the things we do. We're always looking at the research. We're always seeing what new ingredients are coming out. But it needs to have solid research behind it. We don't want to just like jump on a one study bandwagon where it sounded really cool but turned out to not be anything for skin.

Yeah. And you guys are working in the future, right? I mean, like, how far ahead are you in terms of planning and of doing product development?

We go pretty far out. You know, we have products all the way through the end of 2021 that are in development, but we have to make. I mean, one of the things we do is we want to get the formula exactly right. So we also take our time. Like, we will spend time perfecting and tweaking and testing. Not just testing for, like, irritation, but really actually waiting to see, did this actually give the result that we were hoping for? And if it didn't, we have to go back to the drawing board. So sometimes skincare is rocket science. Like, it takes so much to come out with a formula that really works, but we're all about results. We don't want to sell you something just because it sounds cool. We really want something that is going to work for you and also for all skin types, all skin tones. You know, when we think about, like, our sunscreen formulations, testing it on people of all colors to make sure that it's not, again, going back to that white cast, leaving a white cast, or just making skin look dull, really making sure it looks good on everybody, and it's something everyone can use.

Yeah. I'm so happy that you've brought up inclusive testing, because that's something that I wanted to ask you about. I think we're becoming more and more aware of racial injustice, racial inequalities. And I've been having so many discussions with white allies about how they use their positions of privilege to make things better, to make sure that we're including black voices. And basically, whether it's hiring representation and shoots. How do you think about being a good ally?

Representation is something that holds a specific place in my heart. I have my black niece, Essie, who I think about her being able to see people who look like her and see that her skin tone is being embraced and being shown as beautiful. And I love that on our social media, our black community is well represented. And, like, obviously, we know what's going on right now and just showing that, showing our solidarity, showing that we care, showing that they're valued and just giving that space in the beauty realm where it's traditionally been oppressed and traditionally not as well represented. And we know we have more work to do. We know we need to be showing more black models and models of all colors on our website and not, you know, not just in our social media. And we do. We have that on our website, but we really. This is brought to light that we need to do more and we need to put in more work. And part of that is just like having an open dialogue or having an open dialogue with our employees, with our fans, with our black community, even Just getting to speak with somebody like you, who has your platform and has your fan base and has, you know, your own perspective on things, just opening up that conversation and not being worried about saying the wrong thing. Just having the conversation and learning from it.

Absolutely. And I think that also beyond representation, hiring, like, within the company is really important too. Right. Because sometimes when there aren't people, when there aren't black people making the decisions or putting together the campaigns or in those leadership positions, that gets reflected in all of the marketing or what the consumer sees. So do you also think about making sure that you are hiring people of color and black women?

Absolutely. So our CEO did address this head on with all of us through a communication on Monday. Just saying, we know we need to do better and we have practices in place, but have they been enough? No, we know we need to do better. Also. Just making sure those voices are heard and those voices are in meetings. Making sure our black employees, making sure our employees of different skin tones, of different races are in those meetings. And they don't need to hear from me. They need to hear from them, really what matters. And that's what's happening right now. And I know it led to some hard conversations where everybody in the room was crying and wow, as a white person right now, like, I know it's not time for my white woman tears, but I've been shook up by this. I've been crying for days on end, and I was like, I don't even know if I can hold it together for this podcast, but I would rather have that uncomfortableness and push through it to be able to lead to that bigger change. And I know that's what's coming. It's been crappy that this is what it's taken to get there, and it feels embarrassing that this is what it's taken to get there.

But, yeah, I think having those uncomfortable conversations is really the first step. I think for so long, these conversations have happened in the black community. But I'm really, I guess, looking at it glass half full and being optimistic. Maybe I'm too optimistic. I'm really happy that a lot of my white colleagues and friends are having these discussions more actively for the first time. So thank you for sharing your perspective on that. Before all of the protests began, quarantine was the thing that was kind of top of mind for everyone, and we're obviously still all sheltering in place. How is your approach to beauty changed while being kind of in quarantine? Because I feel like I'm definitely wearing less makeup I put on a little makeup for today for our conversation. But how is, how's your approach to kind of beauty and wellness changed while you've been in quarantine?

So at the beginning, I will say I went gung ho with like just stepping up my game and I was doing these regular spa nights with my daughter as just something fun. So we were doing more math. But that has petered off and at this point it's kind of just back to business as usual for me in terms of my skincare routine, not a whole lot different. I still have to wear makeup on pretty much a daily basis because I always have something like this going on. So that has kept me, you know, to have to keep that sort of thing up. But yeah, my, my routine, I feel like the only thing that's changed is that I have had more stress breakouts. You know, as somebody who's already prone to acne, stress can trigger it more. It can cause more inflammatory substances that do lead to those breakouts. So I will say I feel like I have had to be using my bha, you know, more of the twice a day instead of the once a day just because of those stress breakouts. Because it's hard being a mom with two kids and trying to balance work and my husband works in an essential worker field, so.

Oh, wow.

It has been a struggle to say the least. But managing.

Okay, good. What are your favorite beauty products? Like your all time favorites? Holy Grails.

Okay. A couple from Paula's Choice. Obviously there are BHA9amazing for those like monster stress breakout. Just those breakouts that unexpectedly happen that helps it take it down so much quickly, quicker. The 20% niacinamide that we talked about from Paula's Choice, Also a sleeper hit is our lip and body balm. I promise you, you try that and you will never go back to normal Chapstick. You will never go back to normal lip balm. After that, it's just so rich and hydrating really.

Okay.

From other brands, I've gotten into the Cosrx pimple patches.

Yes.

That is doing. It's helping me from picking out a pimple that is like, you know, we all know how bad it is. We all know that that's going to lead to more hyperpigmentation, but it is hard to leave it alone when it's sitting there on your face. So I've been using those. Another product that isn't so much skincare but more lash growth is Babe Lash. I've tried a ton of different lash growth products and that one gives you a really good bang for your buck. It's a lot less expensive than the other ones I've tried, and it really works, so I'm enjoying that. In terms of makeup, I love my Mac Water Weight Studio foundation with SPF 30. That's a really good one. In terms of. Oh, I know I have something right here. This Kosas.

I love Kosas.

You can see how well loved this product is when I open it.

Is this one of their blush duos?

Yes, the cream one. So good. Normally with blush, with creamy blushes, they. My oils can almost eat them right up. Like, they disappear instantly. But this is a really nice one that stays on, just leaves beautiful, dewy, glowy color. I also love. And it's clean. We're not. So, like, clean is such like.

I know, I know it can go a whole can of worms. But I do. I do think I do appreciate Kosas is the transparency in terms of the ingredients. Because a lot of cosmetics companies, it's like a black box and the formulations really work. A lot of times when it's like a clean beauty brand, it's like the pigment's not there. I'm like, yeah, I want to be wearing makeup. So you need to have a balance of both. Yeah, yeah.

I've tried a lot of their products, and I like them. What else do I love? I love the Fenty Beauty Senna lip paint. Have you ever tried that one?

That's great.

Love it. Thrive Cosmetics. Liquid Lash Extension. So good. So good. I like their lip liners, too. They have a lot of good products from Danessa Myricks. The Lock on Lash adhesive. If you wear fake lashes, that's the one. That's the best. That is the best. It's latex free. It stays and stays and stays. I can cry through it and the lashes will stay on.

What about your least favorite beauty products? Or it could be trends. Like, are there any just, like, trends that you just, like, don't like to see right now? Or products that you think are just not great?

Facial massage, I'm not a huge fan of. If you think about, like, anytime you're manipulating skin and moving and tugging and pulling and stretching it, think about what that's doing to your elastin. It's breaking it down over time. It's going to lead to all of.

The gua sha and stuff that people are doing you're not a fan of.

Not a fan. I mean, if something like, let's say a jade roller, if you were being really light on skin with it and you weren't like aggressively pushing up and down then. I don't have such a problem with it. But yeah, anytime you see your skin moving, I mean, think about what Botox does. It's paralyzing your muscle, right? It's paralyzing that facial movement versus what this is doing is causing facial movements. It's going to cause more wrinkles, it's going to cause more sagging. I just say don't do it.

Well, I know you probably can't name names, but I will name names. When I saw Face Gym pop up on my feed and I saw like, it literally looked like a boxing match with your skin just the most intense and harsh. And some people love it. They're like, oh, I love Face Gym. I, you know, go. And I was like, you pay someone to do this to your skin? I do think that some of it is like just using your like common sense and judgment to look at something and be like, does this look like something that is kind to my skin or not? Yeah, right, okay, so you're not really into that. What? You know, it's so interesting. I have. There are people that love skin care and understand skin care and are like eye cream deniers. Like, there are people that are literally like, eye cream is a sham. And I'm like, how can you think that? But eye cream, for the record, what do you think of it?

So actually our long time standing approach to eye cream has been you don't have to use it. If you are using a well formulated moisturizer that can absolutely work under the eye area too. But not, that's not going to work for everybody. Like I a. Because I have that oily skin, I'm not going to, you know, if I were just using a lightweight moisturizer that I used for my oily skin everywhere else, that wouldn't be enough for my eye area. So I think eye creams are valid, but they aren't necessarily something absolutely everybody has to have. And if you think about it, why would you only be putting the really good anti aging ingredients in the eye cream? Like you would want those everywhere on your face. So your moisturizer should be well formulated. If you're using an eye cream, it should be well formulated. The only other difference I can say is that for some people that eye area can be more sensitive. So they might also need just, you know, maybe less potent actives for certain types of ingredients that they happen to be sensitive to. But for the most part I feel like eye cream is something you can or you can't. It's really up to you.

Interesting. Okay. Okay. That's a. That's a refreshing perspective. So if you have a great moisturizer and it doesn't irritate you under your eyes, you can just use that for your eye area.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. We are at the end of time, but I have to ask you a final question I ask all of my guests, which is, Desiree, when do you feel most beautiful?

You know, right now, with everything that's going on in the world, being home with my two girls on the couch and just, like, loving on them. And external beauty feels like nothing right now. Feels, like, inconsequential compared to what Our. Our passion, our compassion, our empathy, our kindness, standing up for others, all the beauty that that brings out just feels so much more important than anything outward right now. I don't think that means it's, like, vain to take care of yourself and to enjoy skincare or makeup or anything like that. I'm not saying that one negates the other, but I think true beauty really does come from within. And I do feel the most beautiful when I'm practicing what I preach and when I'm really carrying out all those things that truly are important.

I love that answer. I love that answer. Well, thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge today. I feel much better educated, and I'm sure the audience does as well. So thank you so much again for taking the time to come on the show.

Thank you, Brooke.

[Brooke Devard]

Okay, guys, wasn't that just the most informative conversation you have ever heard? Don't worry. I'm going to break it all down with my takeaways and just. I have. I had a lot of thoughts listening back to this that I want to share with you guys. But before I get into the takeaways, I have to talk about this new sponsor. Father's Day is right around the corner. And maybe it's because I'm becoming a mom that I'm really excited about this sponsor because it's making me more sentimental about dads. But listen, finding the perfect present for your dad. Dad. Is really hard. Or at least it's hard for me. I usually resort to gifts involving golf, like golf balls or, like, a golf shirt. Like, it's really that lame. I know more than anything what parents cherish is spending time with family. Today's sponsor, Storyworth, is all about giving a meaningful gift. It's a chance to connect with loved ones and dig deep with interesting questions. To learn things about your dad that you may have never known otherwise. So here's how it works. Every week, Storyworth emails your family member a different story prompt, so questions you've never thought to ask, like what have been some of your life's greatest surprises? And what's the riskiest thing you've ever done? After one year, Storyworth will compile every answered question and photo you choose to include into a beautiful keepsake book that shipped for free. It's something that your family will treasure forever. So give your dad the most meaningful gift this year with Storyworth. Get started right away without the need for shipping by going to storyworth.com nakedbeauty and you'll get $10 off. That's storyworth.com naked beauty for $10 off okay, now for the takeaways from this conversation with Desiree. Takeaway number one changing your skin care in accordance with your cycle. Your normal menstrual cycle, your hormonal cycle. So Desiree talked about amping up on the BHA Liquid Skin Perfector, which is again, a product that I love during this time, but understanding that your skin needs different things depending on what's happening in your cycle. So we talked about how pregnancy changes your skin, how breastfeeding changes your skin. So far I've been lucky with my pregnancy, but Desiree shared that with breastfeeding. Her acne really flared up and she got cystic acne. And sometimes your hormones do things that like no perfect skincare regimen can overcome. So I think that's just a really important reminder and something that kind of gets lost in the skincare conversation. Takeaway number two Now I had to look out for my oily skin girls because I don't share your struggle, but I empathize. She talked about things you can do for oily skin. She talked about clay masks, charcoal masks. Now I love clay masks and charcoal masks because they're actually so easy to diy. Like, I am the biggest fan of buying some, like raw Rhail clay. You can order it on Amazon. I order mine from Mountain Rose Herbs. Making your own clay mask activated charcoal capsules you can easily order. Crack those open, add some water, smooth it over your face for a really effective face mask that's going to yield results. But also she talked about making sure that you're not stripping your skin with harsh alcohol and cleansers. That's a really big key if you have oily skin or dry skin, but you have to make sure that you're not overly stripping your skin. She also said that she likes gel formulations for Oily skin. So I thought that was a great tip. Okay, takeaway number three. It was so great to hear the difference between aha in BHA and just hearing that BHA is better for sensitive skin. And just also talking about leave on exfoliants versus physical exfoliators. Physical exfoliators can cause micro tears in the skin. I have personally moved away from using a lot of physical exfoliators for this reason unless they're very gentle. Also, just looking at the PH level for your acids for those chemical exfoliants, one of the great resources that she plugs is Beautypedia. You can search for pretty much any of your beauty products and get information back on what the PH level of that product is to make sure that it's not too acidic and it's not stripping your skin. Takeaway number four. So I had to kind of correct this false assumption I had that your skin could get used to a certain ingredient. And I kind of had this thought where, like, I was like, okay, I'm going to use different products different nights of the week just to like, keep my skin on its toes so it doesn't get used to a certain ingredient. And I love that. She clarified for me that what's good for your skin is good for your skin the same way that broccoli is good for you every single day of the week. If there's a product that's good for your skin, it will continue to be good for your skin. So you don't have to worry about trying new products all the time so that they remain effective. Very helpful to know. Takeaway number five. Now, I'm including this because I love that skincare isn't black and white. Like, facial massage is something that people are huge proponents of. They say it's like game changing. It can completely change the makeup of your skin. It can change the way that, like, the muscles in your face are composed. It's a big topic of debate. But Desiree is not here for facial massage. So the argument against facial massage that she made does make sense to me. Now, I personally use my gua sha. I definitely am gentle, but I also, I do some facial massage when I'm putting on my serums. I kind of, like, knead my face a little bit and, like, get the muscles moving more because it feels good. I'm not doing it for aesthetic reasons, but I've also seen things like Face Gym, which I called out as, like, seeming really extreme and kind of, like, harsh to your poor skin, if you ask me. But again, some people are obsessed with Face Gym. They think it's like the best thing ever and they love, you know, beating up their skin when they when they have a chance. So I've just included this as a takeaway just to remind us all that beauty is not black and white. There are things that work for some people and not others. Again, love this conversation. Drop me a DM on Naked Beauty Planet. Tell me what you learned. Tell me if you're going to be changing anything in your skincare routine because of this or if there are any Paula's Choice products that you are going to personally by after hearing more, I again love the BHA Liquid Skin Perfector. I think that is one of the best products I have ever tried. Cannot recommend strongly enough. Thank you guys for listening and enjoy the rest of your day.

[Desiree Stordahl]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.

Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where we make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves. I'm Paige Desorbo. I'm Hannah Burner. Welcome to the squad. Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an interview appropriate time. But of course we can't be managed so we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or.

[Brooke Devard]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Desiree Stordahl]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.