The Sasquatch Scapegoat: Sierra National Forest

Summary

Podcast Summary: National Park After Dark

Episode Title: The Sasquatch Scapegoat: Sierra National Forest

Date: June 15, 2026
Hosts: Danielle (A) and Cassie (B)
Episode Focus: The disappearance of Teresa Ann Beer in the Sierra National Forest and the disturbing mix of abuse, possible murder, and a bizarre Sasquatch cover story.

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Episode Overview

Danielle and Cassie recount the tragic and unsettling case of 16-year-old Teresa Ann Beer, who vanished in California's Sierra National Forest in 1987. Ostensibly lured into the wilderness by a Bigfoot-obsessed adult, her story is an intersection of rural folklore, child abuse, and the failures of those entrusted with her care. While headlines sensationalized "Bigfoot took her," the truth is much darker and revolves around an abusive upbringing, predatory adults, and an unresolved missing persons case.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Introduction to the Case & Setting the Scene

• Sierra Nevada: "Majestic," remote, famous for Bigfoot sightings ([00:02])
• Reference to John Muir and the legendary Patterson-Gimlin footage.
• Danielle: “California ranks second in the nation for reported Bigfoot sightings ... But the truth, or what we know of it, is much darker than whatever supposedly dwells in that forest.”
• The case discussed is from 1987, involving a girl who vanished and a man who blamed Bigfoot.

2. Bigfoot as a Scapegoat

• Playful intro into the mythos of Bigfoot within the region.
• "If you want a Bigfoot-coded episode, that's the one for you, because this one surprisingly kind of isn't." — Danielle ([02:01])
• The episode is listener-recommended, and connected to a recent Discovery docuseries.

3. Teresa Ann Beer’s Troubled Childhood

• Born 1971; abused from a young age—broken leg at age three by her mother, resulting foster care stints, more abuse with her father’s remarriage ([06:55]).
• Described as “never truly safe… so she had a really tough start to life.” ([07:22])
• Eventually was sent to live with "Blind Johnny," a visually impaired uncle unlikely to be a safe guardian.

4. Introduction of "Skip" (Russell Shelton Walsh)

• A 43-year-old family friend, known for taking minors to the woods and his obsessive Bigfoot belief ([13:07]).
• Known in the community for predatory and erratic behavior.
• On June 1, 1987, Teresa was last seen after accepting a ride from Skip—she never arrived at school.

5. The Disappearance and Investigation

• Rapid response by law enforcement compared to other missing teens cases.
• Skip’s conflicting stories: first claimed to have dropped Teresa at school, then that she ran off, later that Bigfoot took her ([15:41]-[17:18]).
• Danielle: “On this camping trip, Bigfoot took Teresa. This claim may be a shock to you, and it was certainly a shock to the police, but Skip’s obsession with bigfoot was well documented around Fresno.” ([17:20])

6. Skip’s Reputation and Mental State

• Skip was notorious in the area for his Bigfoot mania—bothering the Fresno State anthropology department, delivering supposed Sasquatch bones (that turned out to be cattle), and taking other teens to the forest with progressively creepier, sometimes drug-induced, experiences ([19:55]).
• Multiple people corroborated strange, frightening, possibly drug-related events with him in the woods.
• Notable: “He was in custody and... could not stop talking about Bigfoot.” — Danielle ([26:36])
• Diagnosed or suspected to be deeply mentally ill, reinforced by his methamphetamine use.

7. Bigfoot as a Distraction and Legal Dead Ends

• Skip told intricate, delusional stories about underground societies and Bigfoot “bodyguards,” claiming Teresa was safe and happy with these beings ([27:31]-[29:01]).
• Law enforcement concluded he sincerely believed his outlandish narrative.

8. The Evidence and Search

• Skip led police to a remote (and likely staged) campsite with a fire pit, Polaroids, and personal effects, which probably did not mark the real crime scene ([37:18]).
• Discussion of how police dogs and infrared searches yielded nothing; suspicion that Skip staged the campsite and disposed of Teresa elsewhere.
• The family members, especially Johnny, acted questionably (e.g., provided only bloody underwear for scent-tracking, delayed missing report).

9. Media Sensationalism

• Media fixated on the Bigfoot angle, minimizing attention on the girl herself and her dire circumstances, e.g., "police release picture of girl who left on trip to find bigfoot" ([40:24]).
• The actual abuse Teresa suffered at home (including possible sexual exploitation by Johnny and his network) was mostly overlooked by the press ([41:16]).

10. Legal System & Failures

• Discussed the failure to prosecute:
  • Skip’s only charges were child endangerment and child stealing.
  • Prosecutors, cautious not to jeopardize a future murder charge (due to double jeopardy), let him walk free when the plea deal was refused ([51:19]).
  • “He has admitted to taking a teenager into the woods and then her never being found again ... Free to go.” — Cassie ([51:27])

11. Unresolved & Lingering Theories

• Theories: Maybe Teresa ran afoul of serial killers (The "Speed Freak Killers" of the late 1990s) (disputed), or her body was dumped in a mine.
• Some clues suggest that Skip may have buried her at his mother’s house—cadaver dogs later searched there to no avail ([62:37]).
• Chilling: “He came back to the house that night, was sobbing, rocking back and forth, muttering about the devil and the girl.” — Recollection from Skip’s grand-niece via YouTube ([62:37])

12. Community Voices & Lasting Damage

• Family and acquaintances are split:
  • Skip’s daughter defends his intentions, saying he was “a great dad” and possibly tried to help Teresa escape Johnny’s abuse.
  • Others, including Blind Johnny’s girlfriend and Skip’s nephew, are adamant that “that son of a bitch killed her” and that he preyed on vulnerable girls ([66:46]).
  • Law enforcement and most evidence point to Skip as the likely perpetrator, but Teresa’s body has never been found.
  • “The Bigfoot headline got the attention. Teresa... deserved so much more.” — Danielle ([67:03])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “As the story goes... a man emerged from these mountains without the person he went in them with. When investigators asked him what happened, he had an answer. Bigfoot took her.” (Danielle, [00:37])
• “No adult wants to hang out with children in the woods ever. Good intentions.” (Cassie, [22:32])
• “He’s the guy that showed a sacrificial rock to his nephew, claiming it was used to present human sacrifices to devil gods because Bigfoot worshiped women.” (Danielle, [24:03])
• “I think that’s why this whole thing kept me up so much last night. Because there’s a difference with someone who did something awful and is just lying ... to someone who truly believes this. And you will never get an answer from.” (Danielle, [29:06])
• “He concluded his statement by laughing: If they were to find her, don’t worry, there wouldn’t be any sign of sexual assault because... it wasn’t in his nature.” (Danielle, [35:42])
• “The charges that he was facing he would have been found guilty for, I think. But regardless, it was totally messed up. He walked. Free to go.” (Danielle, [53:49])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02: Scenic introduction & the case enters "Bigfoot country."
• 06:55 – 12:00: Teresa’s background and history of abuse.
• 13:07 – 15:29: Introduction of “Skip,” his reputation, and Teresa’s disappearance.
• 15:29 – 17:18: Police question Skip; conflicting/varying stories begin.
• 19:55 – 22:32: Skip’s Bigfoot obsession and other disturbing encounters with minors.
• 24:03 – 29:06: Skip’s delusions, drug use, and law enforcement perceptions.
• 35:42: Disturbing sexual comments during interrogation.
• 37:18 – 40:24: Investigation at the campsite, realization of a staged scene.
• 41:16 – 44:50: Abuse in Johnny’s home and further failings.
• 51:19 – 53:49: Legal debacle: charges dropped, Skip walks free.
• 55:18 – 57:44: Alternate suspects: The “Speed Freak Killers” theory (debunked).
• 62:37: Leads investigated by the Discovery team/Cadaver dogs at Skip’s mother’s house.
• 65:15 – 67:03: Survivors and divided opinions about Skip’s character; summary of the likely outcome.
• 68:42 – 70:30: Reflection and hope to keep Teresa’s case alive.
• 73:11 – END: Palate cleanser (dog safety vests), Yellowstone appreciation, listener/park stories.

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Tone & Style

• Empathetic, conversational, and occasionally darkly humorous to break tension (“God, I’m good.” — Cassie, [24:50]).
• Deep frustration and heartbreak over continual adult failures in Teresa’s life.
• Occasional side tangents and personal reflections (e.g., Danielle and Cassie trading stories about their educations, pet safety debates, and recent trips).

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Final Reflections & Call to Action

• The case remains unsolved—both key suspects (Skip and Johnny) are dead.
• Authorities urge anyone with information to contact Fresno Police (559-621-2541).
• Emphasis on the importance of telling Teresa’s story and keeping her case known.
• Closing sentiment: “The Bigfoot headline got the attention. Teresa—a young, curious girl who loved nature and still placed trust in people despite being wronged so many times before—deserved so much more.” ([67:03])

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Additional Listening Notes

• The episode closes with a friendly, lighter segment about pet safety, national park road trips, listener encounters, and the hosts’ burgeoning appreciation for Yellowstone ([73:11+]).
• The hosts balance the gravity of the case with warmth, outrage, and advocacy for protecting the vulnerable.

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For more information about the episode or to support the podcast, visit National Park After Dark on all social platforms or consider joining their Patreon.

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If you or someone you know is experiencing or witnessing child abuse, please call the National Child Abuse Hotline: 1-800-4-A-CHILD (1-800-422-4453) or visit childhelp.org.

Transcript

[A]

It rises almost without warning just east of Fresno, California, the majestic Sierra Nevada. What John Muir called the range of light. Giant sequoias, granite peaks, dense forests of ponderosa pine and white fir, so thick they swallow the afternoon sun whole. Running roughly 400 miles along the eastern edge of the Golden State, it is one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of North America. It's the type of wilderness where you can walk for days without crossing a road or spotting another person. And depending on who you ask, it is also Bigfoot country. California ranks second in the nation for reported Bigfoot sightings. And the famous grainy video of Bigfoot, also known as the Patterson Gimlin footage was taken there in the 1960s. The Sierra Nevada is dotted with reported sightings. Hunters, hikers, and campers drawn into the mountains come back with stories they can't quite explain. In the summer of 1987, a man emerged from these mountains without the person he went in them with. When investigators asked him what happened, he had an answer. Bigfoot took her. The headlines wrote themselves. But the truth, or what we know of it, is much darker than whatever supposedly dwells in that forest. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

[B]

Hello, everyone. Welcome back. I'm Cassie.

[A]

I. I'm Danielle.

[B]

I feel like I haven't heard the word Bigfoot on our podcast and maybe too long.

[A]

I know, and apologies for that, because I feel personally responsible somehow.

[B]

It was almost a jump scare when you said it. I was like, oh, Bigfoot, are we?

[A]

Yes, welcome back.

[B]

Him.

[A]

Yeah, it's been a while. And just as a reminder, I. I should have done this. I didn't. But we covered the Patterson Gimlin footage in an episode years ago. Years. If you want a Bigfoot coded episode, that's the one for you, because this one surprisingly kind of isn't.

[B]

It didn't sound like it would be. It sounds like Bigfoot is the scapegoat to something darker.

[A]

Oh, did you read the title of what I titled this?

[B]

No.

[A]

Am I. I titled it the Bigfoot or. Sorry, I titled it the Ski. What did I title it? Wait, what did I do?

[B]

Am I psychic or not?

[A]

You are. Promise you, you are. What did I do? Oh, the Sasquatch scapegoat.

[B]

Ah. Ah. Well, same brain.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, this one is actually a recommendation from a listener who I actually did filter back through to try and get their name to properly thank them, but they didn't sign the email, so just know.

[B]

And their email didn't say their name?

[A]

It did, but I didn't want to Shout it out. In case it was private information. I don't know. If you don't sign your name, I'm not gonna. Like, yes. Yeah.

[B]

The first time you actually try to shout people out, remember to shout people out. It's like, oh, you didn't sign your name.

[A]

Yep, sorry.

[B]

Sign on the dotted line. Sign your life away or we won't include you in the podcast.

[A]

Well, just know that if you sent an email in March of 2026 with this recommendation, thank you personally. Thank you. But the email did say, like, hey, my husband just saw this docu series and I feel like it would be a perfect episode. And it turns out it is almost perfect. It's not in a national park, it's in a national forest. But the location in the national forest is just south of the southern entrance of Yosemite. And this.

[B]

They cover national forests all the time.

[A]

They count.

[B]

They're national parks. They literally have the word national in it.

[A]

And that's what we're basing this entire show off is the word national. Right. Well, the docu series that they brought up in their email, I ran to because I had never heard of this case before. And the it's a three part, like little miniseries thing on Discovery Channel. It premiered I think last year or the year before. You can watch it for free on YouTube if you don't have Discovery plus or whatever streaming service. And it kind of like those miniseries tend to do they say a lot without saying much, if that makes sense. Like, like a lot of fluff. Yes. I could have boiled down the information that was pertinent to this case into maybe 15 minutes. It didn't need to be 3:45 minute long.

[B]

It's like one of those dramatized things where it's like it was really dark outside in the dead of the night under the cloud of darkness.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, oh my God, get to it. Yes, precisely that. And there was a lot of like B roll footage of them driving. They were driving a lot.

[B]

I do love a good B roll.

[A]

They do. So no shade to it. It was entertaining. But for the actual information that is going to be in this episode, I turned to a book and I'll link it in the episode description. It's only like 60 pages. So that being said, I think the story is totally worth telling and that's why I'm doing an episode on it. But it's kind of a little bit slimmer on the details compared to a normal episode, if that makes sense.

[B]

That does.

[A]

Okay. And just before we get Started little bit of a heads up here. This episode does contain a lot of sensitive topics like child abuse and sexual abuse of minors. It's pretty heavy, so if you're not in the space to listen to that, here is your heads up. So let's get into it. Teresa Ann Beer was born on April 16, 1971, the second of three girls to a military family. Her father David, was overseas in Vietnam and her mom, Shirley, to put it lightly, really struggled with the responsibilities of motherhood. As a result, Teresa and her sisters were often left in the care of her grandmother until her dad came home from the war. However, it was just a few short years until social services showed up after Teresa, who was just barely three years old at the time, was reported as having a broken leg. Teresa's mother ultimately admitted to breaking it intentionally by twisting her leg around the crib slats in an act of abuse.

[B]

That's awful.

[A]

The wound left Teresa with lasting physical scars and likely emotional ones, and she and one of her sisters were taken into the foster system. Over the next 10 years, she bounced between foster homes. An adult from church took them in for a while and then her father remarried and then regained custody of them, only for the girls to suffer further abuse at the hands of their new stepmother.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

So this is a lot of years worth of here, there, everywhere information. But just know she bounced around a lot and from what I gather, she was never truly safe really in any of these circumstances. So she had a really tough start to life. Teresa's next home was with her great grandmother in Fresno, but by this time she was a teenager and overflowing with energy. She was a young girl and she was starting to come into her own. And despite all the years of abuse that she endured, Teresa remained a kind hearted person and was considered at the time a tomboy. Meaning essentially she was just really into nature. She loved climbing trees, spending time outside. She wasn't afraid of getting dirty. And while her great grandmother was well intentioned with wanting to take her in, she was like elder. She was nearing her 80s, she was not in the best of health, and it was just too much to care for a young girl. So because of the struggles that she had with keeping up with Teresa, she ultimately decided that Teresa could go live with her uncle, which was the last move that she would make before she wound up in the headline news. As the story goes, Teresa's uncle, John Richmond, earned the nickname Blind Johnny at the age of 18 years old after a failed game of Russian roulette. He had Shot himself in the head and lost his eyesight, but not his life.

[B]

Wow, that's a stroke of luck if you're playing Russian. Depending on you live through that. I mean, I guess depending because it's pretty bad luck if you pull the trigger. But the fact that you live after is.

[A]

Yeah, obviously with lasting scars, but. So that already feels like a very

[B]

rough and tumble family. Because I would never even slightly consider. Do you wait like that?

[A]

Oh, you wait. It gets really. Like I said before that we started this episode, we. Before we press record, I was telling Cassie how this case really caused me to be. I don't know, last night I was just tossing and turning a lot because I was finishing up the notes on this and just putting the finishing touches on the episode. And I don't know, it's just so deeply unsettling and I just feel so bad and so deeply for Theresa and not just ultimately what happened to her, but just her whole life and all these situations that she was in and family that. And when you think of family, you think of people who care for you and want the best for you, and you'll see that that just wasn't the case for her. And I don't know, it's just deeply upsetting. So Blind Johnny takes her in and while he did do that and agreed to do so, it seems like it wasn't really out of the kindness of his heart of my niece needs a place to stay and a, you know, roof over her head and a parental figure. It seems like he was just kind of doing it for the payout that a foster parent would get. I mean, it's super modest stipend, but still, like people do that.

[B]

That's a real thing. Yeah. I had a friend who's in the foster system and she ended up in a situation very similar. So it's definitely, unfortunately very real.

[A]

And at this point in time, just to get a gauge on where people are at here, Teresa was just starting high school and Blind Johnny was in his 40s. And while it isn't super central to the story, just because you brought the family dynamics and convoluted type of relationships going on here, just to give a better picture of what's happening. So Teresa's dad is Blind Johnny's former brother in law, meaning that when her dad got remarried, he married Blind Johnny's ex wife.

[B]

Oh, drama. Yeah, drama.

[A]

So there's a lot of confusion here and maybe some resentment and things like that, perhaps as a result of her difficult home life growing up, bouncing from one home to the next. And enduring abuse at the hands of her parents. Teresa struggled a bit in school, and teachers described her as a slow learner. It's like, yeah, she, maybe she just has bigger shit going on right now, you know?

[B]

Yeah. And doesn't have the support of family at home to help her with homework and.

[A]

Right, exactly.

[B]

And all of that.

[A]

At 16 years old, she was slim, stood 5 foot 5, with brown hair and bangs that sometimes obscured her hazel eyes. She was still a freshman and older than her classmates. And on June 1, 1987, as Teresa gathered her school books and left for one of the last days of the school year, instead of taking the bus this time, she caught a ride from a family friend of blind Johnny's, a 43 year old man named Russell Shelton Walsh, also known as Skip. However, a few hours later, Teresa's high school called her uncle to say that she had never shown up that day. And after searching for her throughout the day, Johnny officially reported Teresa missing to the Fresno police. Later that evening, Detective Doug Stokes took the lead on the case and immediately set to work. Knowing Teresa was last seen with Skip, he interviewed those who knew him, including his son Terry and his daughter Chandra, who both had some pretty concerning things to say about their dad. Skip. Mostly his habit of doing drugs and taking underage children deep into the woods.

[B]

This is a habit of his. This is like a known thing that he does. That's awful.

[A]

He's known around town for this and we'll get into that in a little bit.

[B]

I hate that so much.

[A]

After learning Skip spent significant periods of time in the forest and gaining information on the location of his four mining claims in the Sierras, Detective Stokes also spoke with the U.S. forest Service. And members of the Forest Service were dispatched on foot and horseback to search trails and specifically different trail heads for Skip's vehicle. And I have to say, right off the bat, you know, the reaction time for law enforcement on this, I think comparatively to other cases that we've heard and covered and researched before was pretty quick. This wasn't like, oh, she just ran away. Give her 48 hours. Like you can't report it for 48, whatever it is, you know, they were pretty on it pretty quickly.

[B]

Well, it sounds like they have really concerning information right out the gate where it's like, I know she was with this guy. And I'm guessing if it was known around town that he did the stuff that police had an inkling but had never been able to tie him to taking underage people into the woods and

[A]

they're gonna learn a lot more about Skip and why he was doing that. Four days after the missing persons report was filed, Skip's Brown 1976 Monte Carlo was located in the foothills of the mountains, parked in a tiny community near the town of North Fork, California. A town that serves as sort of a gateway to the Shut Eye region of the Sierra National Forest, just south of Yosemite National Park. When they finally track down Skip at his mother's house, which I don't even want to get into all the. It was like a game of telephone. And this person saw him and they said this and that, whatever. They found him at his mother's house. Teresa was nowhere to be found. On June 10, Fresno police took Skip into custody, arresting him on an outstanding DUI charge, and pressed him to explain where the missing 16 year old girl had wound up. Initially, Skip was adamant that he'd simply taken Teresa to school. He had picked her up from home, listened to her talk about all her struggles that she was experiencing as a 16 year old girl, and then dropped her off at school.

[B]

Yeah, because 16 year old girls tell their uncles all the struggles they're having.

[A]

Well, it's not even her uncle, it's her uncle's friend.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, right, right. It's like, right, sure. She confided all of this information and

[A]

she was also described as pretty, reserved and shy. Like she was super kind and, you know, she wasn't like a recluse or anything. But it didn't. I didn't be out of character. Yeah. I didn't get the impression that she would just be an open book to anybody. Police sense that clearly this probably was not what happened and that he was leaving some things out or lying entirely. So they pressed him further and then he changed his story. He claimed that after he dropped Teresa off at school, a blonde friend of hers arrived to help, quote, unquote, Teresa hide out from what? I don't know, like I think he was insinuating, like he dropped her off at school, but then it looked like her friend and her were gonna play hooky or something. Yeah, that too didn't fly with the police. So Skip's story changed again. This time he admitted to taking Teresa into the mountains to look for Sasquatch, arguing that Teresa had agreed to join him on a camping trip. When they asked Skip how she disappeared from the campsite, it's like, okay, so you took her into the mountains to camp. Where is she? Once again, he offered various different explanations for this version of events. She'd run off into the woods With a different group of campers to. Oh, yeah, when we were going up there, we saw some people with motorcycles. And she was. She thought the motorcycles were really cool. And then when we ran into them at the campsite, she, like, went off with them.

[B]

In what world? In what world?

[A]

But finally, skip stuck with one last version of events. And the story that stuck in the headlines and the one that he maintained until the day he died. On this camping trip Bigfoot took Teresa. This claim may be a shock to you, and it was certainly a shock to the police, but skip's obsession with bigfoot Was well documented around fresno. Skip didn't just believe the legend. He seemed to be Utterly consumed by it. Long before the summer of 1987, Skip was pestering the anthropology department at fresno state. To meet with him about bigfoot, Knocking on their door for years until staff finally agreed to meet with him. He arrived with a stack of photographs, 2 inches thick. That he insisted Were the definitive proof that the world was missing. But to the professors, they were just blurry photos of the forest and trees with weird shapes. That didn't look like really anything, Let alone definitive proof of bigfoot. When the photos didn't work, Skip doubled down. He eventually left a brown paper bag at the university. Containing skeletal remains. That he had scavenged from the sierra nevada national forest. He was certain that he had found sasquatch, but forensic analysis proved that the bones. Were merely the remains of domesticated cattle. But skip wasn't just eager to prove bigfoot's existence to fresno state. He also took other people, Mostly young people, into the mountains to search with him against their will or no, but also kind of okay.

[B]

Like, it was a weird scenario going.

[A]

A weird scenario. So. And he did this with multiple different people. And it seems like every one of them that did go with him did agree to go at first, but then they had really odd, strange experiences. Once they were out there with him and got really freaked out and wished they didn't go, okay. But initially, when he was talking it up, he never kidnapped anybody and brought them out that I am aware of.

[B]

It was more like people were like, yeah, let's look for bigfoot. I've heard the legends. It would be so fun and cool. And then you get out there and you're like, who is this strange.

[A]

This guy is off his. Yeah. Off his rocker, and I'm afraid for my life type of thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Years later, Multiple people came forward. To talk about their experiences with the. Not only the author of the book that I read, but also with the hosts of that discovery series, which is titled Bigfoot Took Her. One of those people was Michelle ryan, who in 1986, like I mentioned, agreed to go with Skip initially and once she was there, had a really horrific experience. She said at night she saw an ugly demon in the bushes and was getting so frightened and freaked out that she nearly ran off a cliff. Like she was seeing things in the woods and hearing things. And Skip was acting really bizarre. And there was two other guys with her that also were kind of freaked out, but thankfully kept Michelle a little bit contained and safe and not like running. She almost fell off a cliff, she was so scared.

[B]

Did he drug her or was this just.

[A]

She thinks that perhaps she was drugged.

[B]

She was hallucinating because of some type of substance.

[A]

Two years earlier, a man named Kenny Cook claimed to have seen something similar and had a staring contest with a quote unquote white gorilla under a tree until a tree crashed into their camp, leading him and Skip to flee. Some college students were lured out on a similar trip with Skip, who described being paralyzed by sounds of knocking in the trees while Skip whispered about eyes glowing in the. Even Skip's own nephew, James, had disturbing experiences in the Sierras with his uncle, in which he walked away shook by what he experienced out in the forest. And after hearing some of the individual's testimony, and even years later, you can tell how deeply disturbed they are by what they experienced. So I don't want to take away from what happened to them because clearly, no matter what it was, whether it was drugs, truly Bigfoot, something else, whatever it was, it messed them up and it stayed with them for decades. But that being said, there are certain patterns that are seen throughout almost all of their stories, even though they occurred separately from one another. The first is that skip, a 40 something year old man, was regularly and routinely bringing underaged teenagers into the mountains.

[B]

Yeah, that's so creepy and wrong.

[A]

Yeah. So whatever the reason is, even if you did have the purest of intentions of wanting to find Bigfoot, you just. That's a red flag. You don't.

[B]

No adult wants to hang out with children in the woods ever. Good intentions. Unless they're like trusted family members and just, you know, like if it's a camping trip or something. But there's no like, strange adult that has no relation to a teenager that has good intentions.

[A]

And also, across all of these different accounts of Skip's obsession, you hear a darker, more paranormal edge than simple Sasquatch sightings or an interest in Bigfoot. Even though he's clearly a super mega fan. There's a difference between the most well intentioned person who is into Bigfoot and whatever Skip was.

[B]

Yeah, giving Pigfoot people a bad name.

[A]

Yeah, truly. Which we hate. Skip claimed to have formed a quote unquote strong relationship with a community of Bigfoot in the high Sierras prior to Teresa's disappearance. He took his nephew into the mountains and showed him a rock with an alleged sacrificial design. Skip, who with a straight face, completely dead ass serious, said to his nephew his this child showed him this design on the rock and told him it was used to present human sacrifices to devil gods in which a young woman's hands needed to be tied behind her head while she was laid out on her back to appease these gods because Bigfoot worshiped women.

[B]

Ew. I hate that so much. And obviously just everything you're talking about right now. He's clearly mentally disturbed. And so, yes, capacity, it feels like. I don't know, I mean, I could try and diagnose him, but it feels like some type of paranoia, like, well, schizophrenia kind of thing going on here.

[A]

Well, wouldn't you know it? My next bullet here says, friends noted that Skip was a man that was losing touch with reality. A spiral that only worsened after he lost his wife to an overdose. He began taking method, a drug known to cause psychosis and heavy users. A condition that leads to delusions, hallucinations and a paranoid state not unlike schizophrenia. God, I'm good. Damn it, she's good.

[B]

God, I'm good.

[A]

Well, she is a psych major. We are in the midst of a psychology major. Bachelor degree, Bachelor of science. Yeah, there it is. That's why they pay you the big bucks.

[B]

It is truly. Actually, they paid me almost nothing when I worked at psychology, but it's okay.

[A]

But look where I got you. Here with us.

[B]

This spot right here. Wow. I knew I went to college for a reason.

[A]

We truly did, for this moment. I don't know if I've ever truly used my degree ever really. Like, I've put it on resumes and stuff because it was required for a job, but they didn't even check.

[B]

Yeah, like no one hired you specifically because of that.

[A]

And I never used know. I don't think I've ever been in a situation in a professional setting where I was like, let me draw from my knowledge bank of when I learned this in school.

[B]

Yeah. So yeah, I. I've had a couple jobs that directly related to my major, but there was never anything where I was like, Let me check my papers I wrote back in college to make sure. Let me cross reference this to make sure I'm right here. But.

[A]

Right, yeah. Well, we have pursued a unusual career path.

[B]

Bigfoot and psychology.

[A]

What a thought. Rewinding a little bit back because if you remember, after I just kind of went on that side tangent about Skip's background, he is in custody. They arrested him under a different charge for the DUI. So he's in custody and is this

[B]

nine days later cuz she left on June 1st and then he was arrested on June 10th.

[A]

He was arrested, yes, yes.

[B]

Okay, so it's taken this long.

[A]

Yes, it's taken this long because his car wasn't found until four days later. And then by the time they arrest him and he's going through all this stuff like it's well over a week later. And so he's in custody. And once he kind of lands on this one specific story, after he changed his version of events a handful of times, he, he's doubling down on this. And the investigators commented on once he really opened the floodgates about the Bigfoot thing, they couldn't get him to shut up. Like they were saying. Unlike other people who are in custody and are being questioned about their potential involvement in a missing person case or for someone that perhaps is guilty of something, usually they're like, I want to talk to a lawyer, I'm not going to say anything. He, on the other hand, just continued on.

[B]

It's like, let me tell you about Bigfoot.

[A]

Yes. So here he is explaining more about Bigfoot and all he knows about them. He went on to tell police that Sasquatches were 11 foot tall, quote unquote, bodyguards for a race of super intelligent beings that lived in caves underground. And that Teresa had run off with them, stating that the individuals she went away with would not hurt her. But he knew that after she had left, he, he would never see her again. But not to worry, because Teresa was in a society so beautiful she would never want to come back. So this is what he's telling law enforcement. Okay. About.

[B]

And law enforcement, I'm sure, had to engage in all of this and be like, aha, and where is this place? Like what was. Yeah, mean, like had to.

[A]

And not only did he say all of this and explain everything about their society and whatever they served as for other species of potential cryptids, he said all of this to law enforcement with quote, continual eye contact, straight in the eye, and made no emotional indications that would seem to indicate that he believed he was playing a joke or relaying information to me. And this is a quote, by the way, from the lead investigator that he did not some way believe to be true. So Detective Stokes is like, yeah, I know this sounds really outlandish, but I, in my professional opinion he believed this to be true.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For whatever reason, psychosis, meth, which is almost scary. Right.

[B]

Because how are you gonna crack something from someone who like truly thinks they're telling the truth?

[A]

Right. And I think that's why that this whole thing kept me up so much last night. Because there's a difference with someone who did something awful and is just lying and is a piece of shit and just will never admit to it to someone who truly believes this. And you will never get an answer from.

[B]

Yeah, because they like maybe don't even know the answer themselves. The truth.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Especially cuz you mentioned he's. He's heavily using drugs and who knows what kind of state of mind he was in during this entire encounter.

[A]

Right, Exactly. Ever since I watched the Plastic Detox documentary on Netflix, plastic exposure has been something I think about on a daily basis. As I always say, the more you know, the more you suffer. And once I started paying attention to all the different places plastics show up, I realized microplastics can be sneaky. So I made the decision to oust my old cleaning products in favor of Blueland, who makes dish, laundry and other household cleaning products designed to reduce single use plastic. Their laundry tablets have made my life so much easier. They're pre measured and mess free. I just drop them directly into the drum and wash as usual. Their microplastic free formula made with plant and mineral based cleaning ingredients is hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin, but also tough on stains. All without the bulk plastic jug. Blueland products are independently tested to perform alongside major brands and the formulas are made without dyes, parabens or harsh chemicals. Bland is a certified B Corp and Leaping Bunny cruelty Free certified. Their formulas are EPA Safer Choice certified and products have also earned Cradle to Cradle's Gold material health certificate. Make the switch today. Get 15% off of your first order by going to blueland.com npad that's 15% off your first order at blueland.com npad bland.com npad this episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack hydration and coffee sponsor. IQ Bar protein bars, IQ Mix hydration mixes and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious low sugar, brain and body fuel you need to win your day. My recent trip to Nova Scotia was pretty much fueled by IQ bar. My mom and I had a 4 hour drive to Bar Harbor, a 3 and 12 hour ride on the ferry, and then another 3 hour ride to Halifax. She loves packing food and snacks for trips like this rather than making a lot of snack stops. So guess what I contributed? IQ Bars. Plant Protein bars, of course, with plenty of plant protein, tons of fiber and no added sugar. My mom handled the Blueberry Lemon bars and I had the Chocolate Sea salt on lockdown. With over 20,000 5 star reviews and counting, more people than ever are fueling their busy lifestyles with IQ Bars, Brain and Body Boosting Bars, hydration mixes and mushroom coffees. Their Ultimate Sampler pack includes all three. And right now IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20 off all IQ Bar products, including the ultimate sampler pack plus free shipping. To get your 20 off, text park to 64,000 text park to 64,000. That's P A R K to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See Terms for details. So Skip continues on with his story, stating that he did try and look for her after he saw her run away with this creature, but he couldn't find her. So he left. But then the next day he was thinking about her and being like, I wonder if I can find her and whatever happened to her. So he said he returned the next day to try and look for her again but couldn't find her. So he decided, you know what? She's, she's gone, but at least she'll be happy and just turns around, gets, gets in his car and decides to go back home. And he was headed to his mother's house. But he said when he got into the car he felt that something was in the car with him, like some sort of presence. He described it kind of like an evil, oppressive energy in the car with him. So at first he said he felt it and then he said he looked in his rearview mirror and he saw it. And he just describes it as like the devil. He just said, I saw the devil. He was sitting in my backseat and he freaks out because he's also driving at this point. He said he freaked out and decided to try and physically hit it and get it out of the car. So he said that he took his hand and reached back and was trying to punch this thing and when he's explaining it, he's like, I punched right through it because it was this entity and I had this speaker in the backseat of my car and my hand just kept hitting this wooden edge of this big speaker. But I was trying to get this evil entity out of my car. And he thrust his hands into. Onto the table to show detectives proof. And his hands were all scuffed up like, and bruised and scraped over. So he's like, yeah, see, this is what happened. And again, that's so frightening because to me that's like he was in a physical altercation with Teresa.

[B]

Yeah, it sounds like that. Unless he truly was just hitting the speaker over and over again. And that.

[A]

Which could be true. Yeah.

[B]

Because this is the following day when he said he hasn't seen her too, but could also be related to something the day before.

[A]

Right. I mean, I guess either way it's

[B]

indicative of something that isn't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not good. Yeah.

[A]

So anyway, he said that, you know, couldn't find her, but then he also said, I actually did see her and she was running through the woods with this blonde being that was like one of those super intelligent beings or whatever. I don't know. He was just being here, there and everywhere. But he concludes his statement by sort of laughing and saying that if they were to find her, don't worry, there wouldn't be any sign of sexual assault because even though he had plenty of opportunities to have sex with Teresa, he didn't do that because it wasn't in his nature. And I just. The trip that this, the law enforcement were probably on during this, of hearing all of that and then having him just kind of wrap up with that, it's like, oh my God, Teresa, what

[B]

did you do to her?

[A]

Yes. So with all of this information, namely that he had taken her camping, so there must be a physical location that they can go, like a specific location that they can start at. Detectives requested that he bring them there. And he was like, oh yeah, I'll take you right over there. So he brings them on this 25 mile drive deep into the backcountry, like logging roads through the Sierras into this remote meadow in the mountains where he claimed he and Teresa had camped. There, at the edge of a grove of trees, they discovered a smoldering fire pit, blankets, and some items that might have belonged to Teresa, including a T shirt, a bra, and a cloth purse with some Polaroids in it. In the Polaroids, they found a picture of Skip playing a guitar and a picture of a girl Skip identified as Teresa. But as the police looked closer at the items at the campsite, the Polaroids in the purse stood out. The man in the photos did indeed appear to be Skip, and the girl did closely resemble Teresa. And the configuration of the blankets and the campsite appeared to be what they were looking at in the Polaroid photos. Like it did appear to be that campsite, but the background looked almost nothing like where they were. It looked like a mountain called Madera Peak, almost 20 miles away. And it dawned on investigators that the campsite that they were standing in was very likely staged.

[B]

And.

[A]

And that the actual location of where Teresa disappeared was likely dozens of miles away, deeper into the backcountry, within a place known to Skip and all the other people that he took Bigfoot hunting as Ghost Canyon because he had brought every other person to this other place.

[B]

Yeah, and this changes the story a bit too, because right now, everything you've been telling as he seems like he's a little bit out of his mind, he doesn't have a wherewithal to really know reality from. Not. But now if he staged a scene at this random location, he's clearly has the wherewithal for that to try and cover up something.

[A]

Right. An immediate and intensive search was launched around the campsite. Skip had led them to the region shown in the Polaroids. And in between, bloodhounds followed the scent of Teresa's clothing. And helicopters from Sacramento brought the then state of the art infrared cameras to pick up even a faint heat signature. And again, another side note that's not super pertinent to the story, but provides, I think, some context that again kept me up last night. Is that. So there was some clothing at the scene at that campsite that allegedly Skip was saying belonged to Teresa, but they have no idea if that truly was Theresa's clothing. So they went to Blind Johnny, the uncle, and requested clothing from Teresa that the bloodhounds could use, like verified from Teresa. And he gave them out of all her clothes, he gave them a pair of her bloody underwear and said, oh, she had just started her period before she disappeared. So here you go.

[B]

What did he think? The only thing I can think of why you would do that is because you thought there would be more DNA on it to help find. But that's a really weird.

[A]

And Blind Johnny has his own demons that we'll talk about a little bit, a little bit later on. But I just. It's just like really out of all the things and I don't know, whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just. I also know more about Blind Johnny and I'm like, trust me, he's not that great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that.

[B]

I don't think he's great at all. I think he's awful already.

[A]

But so, yeah, needless to say police heavily doubted Skip's story. Every. Every part of it, essentially, other than it was confirmed that Teresa did agree to go with him on this excursion to, quote, unquote, find bigfoot. Because there were people who ran into her in the days prior, and she had mentioned, oh, I'm gonna go with Skip and go on the school.

[B]

She never thought she was going to school that day.

[A]

Yeah, she planned. She knew.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So police had reason to doubt Skip's version of events, but that didn't stop the media. Fresno had its fair share of bigfoot believers. And when Skip pointed towards the trees and the ape like creatures within, the press went wild. Starting on June 19, just over two weeks after Teresa disappeared, Sensational headlines like man blames bigfoot for missing girl in the Fresno bee appeared, followed by police release picture of girl who left on trip to find bigfoot and abducted by bigfoot. Question mark in the national examiner turned a tragedy into a tabloid sensation that made national news. And for weeks, the hook was the monster and not the missing girl.

[B]

I hate that because you're also not. You're taking away all blame from the guy who took her there, too.

[A]

But throughout all of this under the radar, Skip made one claim that was worth taking seriously. Teresa wanted to leave the house because she was being abused by her uncle. Johnny lived on what locals called motel row, an area known for drug deals, sex work, and violence. And blind Johnny was more than a witness to this scene. He was an active participant, dealing and doing meth out of the house. Teresa, according to those who knew her, was not treated like family, but more like a servant expected to cook, clean, and do chores for Johnny, even if it meant missing school. Johnny's ex girlfriend, who, by the way, at the time was 17 years old, what just another aside to put in that mental bank, Would later describe Teresa as a scared little girl in the house and extremely withdrawn, A far cry from the rambunctious, happy girl that she had been before. There are also deeply disturbing allegations raised by others that Teresa faced physical and sexual abuse at the hands of her uncle and the different men that came into uncle Johnny, Blind Johnny's house.

[B]

I hate stories like this because it sounds like people knew this was going on. And I know that a lot of people are like, not my house, not my business kind of thing, but when it comes to a child, I just think that that's such a place where it's every adult's business that if you see a child being abused or in a situation, especially something this severe, it is your Duty to hop in. It is your. Like, I don't. It is your duty to report it, at very minimum.

[A]

Yeah. It's just a lot of people failed, Teresa. And I think that's what is so haunting about this is because it happened so repeatedly, and that's awful. But on the other side of the coin, it happened so repeatedly and repeatedly, nothing was reported. Nothing got better. Like there was no time in which someone advocated for her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Other than her grand, you know, her grandmother, who seemed to really care for her but just was elderly.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just stories like that just I. It just. I hate it so much because there's one thing, and of course the abuser is always the one in the wrong. But if there's a bunch of good people standing by and watching it happen and they don't say anything, then it's like, what is the point?

[A]

Yeah. So all of that to say it kind of just makes what happened after Theresa disappeared all the more troubling. When Central High School called to report Teresa absent on the morning of June 1st, blind Johnny didn't exactly raise the alarm because if you remember, he did report her missing, but not until like 9:30 at night. And initially he was like, oh, I'll, you know, search for her and kind of just look for her and try and figure it out before reporting it to the police.

[B]

But he told, you have drugs and. Right. All this stuff going on, you're not going to draw attention.

[A]

And he told the school initially that she was homesick. And it was, depending on how you slice it, potentially it gave him time to clean up, you know, whatever else was going on in his. Under his own roof. But also it. It perhaps gave Skip hours of lead time into the mountains to set up a.

[B]

Whatever setup or something.

[A]

So whether that delay was negligence, fear or something worse has never really been answered. And if true, all of those allegations about Johnny and what was going on and what he was doing and what he was involved with, it would certainly give Theresa plenty of reason to want out of his house and to flee into the mountains with. You know, even though it was Skip and, you know, he was an older guy, it just seemed like around town, people. I don't want to say he seemed harmless. People weren't like, oh, that's just good old Skip and he just loves Bigfoot. Things had happened enough that people were like, yeah, something.

[B]

Yeah. But in comparison to her home life, you know, I feel like someone like that might not be very scary.

[A]

I feel like it's a lesser of Two evil situation she might have been toggling between. So that's just the feeling I get. But another thing about all those rumors about Blind Johnny and the things that he was involved with and the situations that were, you know, rumored to be happening there led some to suspect that he was involved with Teresa's disappearance directly. That he had sold her to Skip to keep her quiet about whatever else was happening or if Skip. He was indebted to Skip in some way for some shady dealings and he just like gave her or traded her

[B]

for drugs or something.

[A]

Or traded her like. Yeah, so that was another.

[B]

That's so messed up.

[A]

I know. It's so bad. I'm sorry. I told you this was so disturbing. And it's so.

[B]

It's just like anything with a child is just like a whole nother layer. But like we've mentioned, I mean, so many people failed her. But then just the fact to be with people like this, it's just really, really heartbreaking. And she's only 16, right.

[A]

And her whole life has been abuse. Yeah. So regardless of all this information, it wasn't anything concrete. You know, there was no physical evidence, there was no hard evidence that really tied anybody to anything concretely, which was a big problem. And then just to kind of throw another thing in here, Johnny and his girlfriend, that 17 year old, insisted that they had only met Skip the week before and barely even knew who he was. So they're like, oh no, none of that can be true. Like we're not involved. We don't even know who that guy is. It's like, then why would you let her go with him?

[B]

But anyway, talking about it seems like the family. Yeah, there's just a lot of bad decisions and anything with drugs, things just get.

[A]

It's kind of like you can't believe anybody in the story. Not one person seems to be telling the truth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At least in its entirety, which is extremely frustrating. So what investigators were left with was a missing 16 year old girl, a guardian with no credibility, and a suspect whose story kept changing. Ultimately, investigators charged Skip with a misdemeanor for child endangerment and a felony for child stealing, crimes he would face trial for in a few months. But that was pretty much all that they could get him on the lead. Detectives were deeply skeptical of Skip's erratic and shifting alibis and believed he was a dangerous individual who lured Teresa into the mountains and that he eventually murdered her. The Bigfoot legend was nothing more than a delusional shield. And the police did everything they could to Find Teresa and immediate. Like I said, that immediate search was intensive. It expanded throughout the campsites, throughout the national forest, and anywhere that they suspected she could possibly be.

[B]

So that place that was in the Polaroids, they went there. And it was narrated as well.

[A]

Yep. Bloodhounds followed the scent of Teresa's clothing. The helicopters were flying around, trying to. Not only with the infrared, but just trying to spot anything. Months went by, and the search for Teresa puttered out. Visitors and campers in the national forest were advised to be on the lookout for Teresa, but nothing further, aside from Skip's shirt with a pocket full of meth, was ever found. News coverage dried up, and without any irrefutable evidence of Teresa's fate, they could not charge Skip with murder. When it came time for his trial that October, the district attorney faced a hard decision. If they charged Skip with child stealing and Therese's body was found in the future, they were really nervous that they would be unable to reopen the case and charge him with murder due to laws against double jeopardy. And I. So there's a whole chapter on this in the book, and it kind of goes back and forth about their reluctancy to charge him with certain things because they were. They didn't want to mess it up and be like, we don't want to ruin our chances of getting him on murder if something happens and. Or, yeah, like the double.

[B]

Where they can't.

[A]

But isn't it for an exact. Like they're charging him with child stealing and like, they're not charging him with murder. I thought double jeopardy is the same exact charge. You can't be charged with twice or tried for trice. Tried for twice.

[B]

Yeah, it is. So like, maybe that's why for the other stuff they can get him on because they know that he was with her, but for murder, since they don't have her body, they don't want him to be found not guilty and then never be able to try him for it.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know. It was a long time ago.

[B]

The only thought that I like why you would avoid that charge because sometimes people do get murder charges even without remains being found.

[A]

Yeah, there's just not. I mean, it's just kind of all hearsay, rumors, weird. You know, it's just they knew they wouldn't be able. That wouldn't stick in court. But maybe this will answer it a little bit. I'm just remain a little bit confused by it. So essentially, they were so confident that Skip had killed Teresa that they offered him a plea deal. Plead guilty to child stealing, waive your right to claim double jeopardy, and we'll give you a light sentence. But then he refused that deal. Ultimately, the district attorney decided to waive all charges, and they let him walk free.

[B]

What? All charges?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He has admitted to taking a teenager into the woods and then her never being found again.

[A]

Right. I know. That's why I remain very free to go.

[B]

What?

[A]

Free to go. And maybe. I mean, the person who. I forget his name, the author's name, but he did include in the book because he kind of infused some of his own personal thoughts, too, on the case and things like this, and he was just like. I remained. I remain deeply confounded about why they decided to do this and why this decision was ultimately made. But, yeah, he basically walked. Walked free. He was never sentenced for anything. And it seems like they were hoping they would find Theresa's body or something that would give them the ability to charge Skip with murder, but that just never came.

[B]

He came off the streets now, you know, like, at least while you're still trying to build the murder case, you've got everything else. He admitted to it. This is just like another case where police aren't taking crimes against women seriously. Or girls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it bothers me. I know you said that they've been searching and not like the investigators, but once it got to the court system,

[A]

it just seems like a real.

[B]

Seriously.

[A]

I don't even know. Like, they just. It feels like they just got so tripped up with worrying that they would ruin their chances for a bigger charge that they just totally fumbled everything. Because, again, they weren't. The double jeopardy thing, I just don't really understand, because they weren't charging him with murder to begin with. They were charging him with other crimes,

[B]

which he would have been found guilty for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There's so much evidence. He literally has a Polaroid with them out in the woods.

[A]

And he admitted. He never admit. He never denied not being with her. Yeah, well, he did initially at the

[B]

beginning, but then he.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But then he stuck with it, and he was like, yeah, we were here. We did this, whatever. So the charges that he was facing with child enjoyment and stealing and all that, he would have been found guilty for, I think. But regardless, it was totally messed up. He walked. Free to go. Free to go, sir. And they were just hoping that, oh, we'll get him, you know, when Teresa's remains are found, like, then we'll really nab him. Well, that never happened. And because Teresa's body has never been found.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Skip Died a free man at the age of 54 from severe coronary artery disease in 1998. Blind Johnny died in 2008 of cancer, also without facing any sort of consequences for Teresa's disappearance. And even though they didn't have a ton on him like they did with Skip, there was rumors and it was shady and it seemed not right. But I just did want to mention he was never arrested or charged with anything.

[B]

Yeah. And who knows if he hurt other people?

[A]

So with the two of them gone, it's likely that the people who know what happened to Teresa have died. But that hasn't stopped amateur sleuths from keeping the case alive. In the years since, Investigators, documentarians, and local historians have tugged at loose ends. The book, which I got on Kindle and is called Meth Murder and Bigfoot. And it tracked down the lead detective from the case and the discovery series. Bigfoot took her, tracked down a number of different people who had known Teresa, Skip, and Johnny in search of answers. And their searches turned up kind of two big possible explanations. When the hosts of the miniseries were speaking with Skip's surviving daughter, Chandra, she suggested the team investigate Wesley Shermantine and Lauren Herzog, better known as the Speed Freak Killers. So let's take a little bit of a.

[B]

The Speed Freak Killers. I've never heard of this.

[A]

Oh, my God, you're gonna wish you didn't. I'll just give you a small look into who they were, because they were awful. And clearly it's something that both the book and the docu series did look into because it was presented as a possibility. But so essentially, these two guys, they were nicknamed the Speed Free Killers. They were a meth fueled duo of serial killers that were active in California's Central Valley in the late 1990s. They were convicted of four murders, but are suspected to have been connected with the deaths of as many as 70 individuals.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Targeting random victims, killing for fun in sport, and searching for victims in remote areas. Some investigators wondered whether Teresa had simply bad timing, like, wrong place, wrong time, and found herself in their sights. Essentially, the Bigfoot took her crew chased that lead, finding a journalist who had developed kind of like a close working relationship with one of the surviving speed freak killers who is serving out a death row sentence in San Quentin. According to that reporter, the murderer denied any connection to Teresa or the area that she disappeared in. And if you're kind of wondering, like, are we gonna believe this guy? Like, he killed 70 people? Like, should we really believe if he is telling the truth or not? So you can kind of make up your own mind about that. But he did kind of there the call was recorded and you can hear him talking about it. He's like, no, like. And he's in jail for life. He admitted to a bunch of other shit. Like, I think he also admitted to a location, a dump site where over a thousand bone fragments of people were found.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

So he was. At some point in time. Yeah, at some point in time, after however many years in jail. He was kind of telling.

[B]

I don't think just. I mean, it's crazy, but I think sometimes the simplest answers are it. She was last seen with a guy who is mentally unstable and paranoid and was known to bring underage girls into the woods. And he showed a sacrifice, human sacrificial rock to someone.

[A]

Right. And you know, it speaks to. There's one thing about you should really look into every lead and that's great. And it's kind of like your due diligence, but it's super highly unlikely. So I think everyone is in that, in agreement with that. I've gotten a few emails that have really scared me and you've probably gotten them too. You know, the ones that say your online accounts are at risk. Everyone knows that you need a unique password for just about everything these days, and it can be so hard to keep everything straight and more importantly, secure. I've been using Keeper for the last about two months now, and I really do not understand how I survived the online world without it before. Keeper is a password manager that creates strong unique passwords for all of your accounts and stores them securely in one place and logs you in automatically across all of your devices so you never have to remember, guess or worry about your login credentials again. Before Keeper, I used an Excel spreadsheet and my notes app for my different passwords. I got them confused all the time, never had them straight. And Cassie can attest I would lose my ever loving mind about keeping everything straight. And for us or anyone else running a business, Keeper takes the chaos out of managing access for teams so that they can securely share logins, control permissions and protect sensitive data without slowing down day to day work. From individuals to large organizations, millions of people worldwide rely on Keeper to keep passwords organized and accounts protected. Right now, Keeper is offering our listeners 60% off personal and family [e-mail] NPAD this offer is only for podcast listeners. That's keepersecurity.com NPAD for 60% off personal and family plans. Make sure you use our link so they know that we sent you keepoursecurity.com NPAD it may be June with hot and humid days here in southern Maine. But guess when it's not hot and humid at night, especially on the beach. All winter long, we New Englanders wait for this perfect time. The sun sets after a long summer day and you get to throw on a sweatshirt with shorts and sandals. It's just the perfect outfit. My go to remains what I wore on repeat this winter. My alpaca hoodie from Pakka Pakka makes performance apparel from Alpaca fiber, one of the world's most sustainable natural fibers. Their best selling hoodie is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and it's breathable. It just makes for the perfect staple item. It's thermoregulating, odor resistant, durable and made to last. Plus, each one is handcrafted in Peru by artisans who stitch their name into the tag. A personal signature of quality and care. Like I said, this is one of my staple closet pieces I have found. I have a need for it in every season and it just never fails me. But they also have other sustainable breathable organic clothing like socks and underwear and T shirts you should check out too. To grab your pack a hoodie, go to www.pacaapparel.com that's www.pakaapparel.com. james Welsh, who was Skip's nephew, suggested that law enforcement search every mine shaft that they could find in the area because he was pretty convinced his uncle dumped her body down a mineshaft because remember he had four different mining claims out there as well. So he was really, he was well versed in the area and where different

[B]

places and that, I mean, are you ever gonna find her?

[A]

Right? Finally, in a last ditch effort to try and solve the case, the discovery crew encountered a YouTube video by a woman named Devin who is Skip's grand niece. She's like Gen Z and she had kind of just made a video about her uncle that she found out was connected to this case and was, you know, she just kind of put it out there. She doesn't have any personal connection to him. He died before she was born and so she kind of just like put it out there. And she pointed out that when based on what she had heard growing up from her family members, that when Skip came back from the mountains and wound up at his mother's house without Teresa, that he got there and that night he was super distraught, super upset, he was sobbing, he was rocking back and forth, he was muttering things about the devil and the girl and just Acting super bizarre. And then years later, when there was. I forget what needed to happen. Some sort of excavation work that needed to be done in the backyard of his mom's house. Skip freaked out at the contractors and forbid them from digging up the yard.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

And, like, the project didn't go forward because he was putting up such a stink about it. And Devin, this Gen Z YouTube creator, basically kind of threw it out there. Like, maybe he buried Teresa in the yard. Like, he was all freaked out. He. That night he came back and he was, you know, losing his mind and then putting up this fuss about the backyard and just really emotional about it. So anyway, there's this long saga in the miniseries where the Discovery crew literally goes to Skip's mom's old house, who has new owners now. They knock on the door and they're like, hey, so, hi, we're the Discovery Channel. You're living in a house that this guy's mom used to live at, and maybe he buried someone in the backyard. Do we have your permission to, like, look around? And they're like, okay, like, so, right?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. So at first they're kind of really freaked out, but they do agree. And they bring in, like, scent detection dog or cadaver dogs to sniff at in the backyard. They don't hit on anything. And then they. One of the hosts, like, gets into the crawl space in the basement, and she, like, finds bones and stuff, but it turns out they're animal bones and it's just this whole long thing, but weird. They were trying to follow up on maybe.

[B]

She probably isn't in the crawl space in the basement. People would have noticed that.

[A]

You would think, I don't know. But anyway, so that kind of just like you said, leaves us with the most obvious and likely culprit. People who knew Skip couldn't agree on what kind of man he actually was. And that disagreement didn't really soften with time or perspective or more information. It still seems like there's a pretty big divide between surviving members of his family and his friends. His daughter Chandra remembers him as a great dad and has gone on record as recently as last year, 2025, stating as such a hero, she said, who had once pulled children from a burning building, someone who wouldn't hurt anyone. Chandra believed her dad had taken Teresa into the mountains. Like, she doesn't deny that that happened. But to her, she's saying, you know, he did it because he wanted to help her because of the situation she was in with blind Johnny.

[B]

And basically, to the police, not into the secluded mountains alone and then never see her again.

[A]

There's that. Skip's half brother Robin said pretty much the same sort of stuff, saying that, yeah, maybe he had some bad judgment here and there, but he wasn't ill intentioned. He wouldn't hurt a fly, let alone kill someone. And yeah, he was obsessed with Bigfoot, probably to unhealthy levels. Yes, he was addicted to drugs, but he wasn't a killer.

[B]

Yeah, but I feel like that is a tough line because I'm sure sober, he probably, maybe he was this wonderful person. But when you're on a drug that totally alters your mind and creates hallucinations and paranoia, you be. You become someone that is unrecognizable to your true character, so to say, like, oh, he would never. It's like, maybe if he was not using drugs, he would never. But now there's a whole. There's something else at play here.

[A]

Drugs, you know.

[B]

Yeah. And he's exhibiting all of these behaviors that are super concerning. So.

[A]

And it's such a valid.

[B]

I get why you wouldn't want to think your family did it, but you

[A]

gotta face kind of the facts of what's happening here. But then you have the other side of things. Tammy Newman, blind Johnny's girlfriend when Teresa disappeared, said when it came to Skip, she had pretty clear feelings. She said that son of a bitch killed her. And she has never wavered on her

[B]

feelings about that being someone intimately close to someone is going to know them the best.

[A]

And Skip's own nephew reportedly called him dangerous, claiming he was a man who preyed on vulnerable girls. It's like he's the same guy that his uncle showed a sacrificial rock to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and that. That experience doesn't go away. It's like a nice scene. Right, Right. Investigators pointed to something harder to dismiss than character assessments. You know, even beyond what people felt about him or their personal experience with him. And that was that. His stories just kept changing. They kept getting less and less believable. And when prosecutors offered him a deal like, hey, we'll give you a lighter sentence if you waive your right to double jeopardy, he refused that. He went to his grave in 1998, still telling this Bigfoot story. Nearly 40 years later, Teresa Ann Beer is still listed as a missing person and her case remains officially unsolved. DNA from her family has been submitted for comparison against unidentified remains, but so far there has been no match. The people who knew the most about the case are gone. What remains is this. A 16 year old girl who had already been failed by every adult in her life, walked into the Sierra Nevada with a man who came back out alone and whose every instinct afterward. The changing stories, the refused plea deal, the staged campsite pointed away from innocence. The Bigfoot headline got the attention. Teresa, a young curious girl who loved nature and still placed trust in people despite being wronged so many times before, deserved so much more. If Theresa was alive today, she would be 54 years old. If you have any information connected to this case, please contact the Fresno Police Department at 559-621-2541.

[B]

I hated that. Thank you. That was awful. Yeah, yeah, I see why I kept you up at night. That was really. I mean, I said it before in the episode, but anything with children I think just hits a little bit differently. But also the fact that she was failed at every turn in her life and the abuse that she endured just for her life to end in whatever capacity it has, it's just really, really heartbreaking.

[A]

Yeah. And just like all the unknowns of what he did to her. Yeah, allegedly. You know, anything that he was just so convinced. I mean, I left out a lot of his like more detailed beliefs about these devil gods and what they required and these sacrifices and things like that. And just knowing that that's what he was telling people about, like what he truly believed to. To think of what she potentially experienced, like, it just is really upsetting. But I guess thank you to that person who recommended it because it was bizarre. It's a bizarre case, especially with the Bigfoot twist and things like that. But you know, I haven't heard of Theresa's story before, so I haven't either.

[B]

And I think with missing person cases, especially ones like this, to bring more light to it, you never know. You just never know who might be listening or who might see it and be like, wait a second, I was in those mountains with my dad that day, like way back when. And I remember seeing like, you just never know the connections that are out there for something. So I really hope that by keeping this case alive and talked about and Theresa alive and talked about that there's some type of closure that happens.

[A]

I agree. Because Blind Johnny and Skip are dead. But there are plenty of people who are still alive that knew them, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, if she's only gonna be. If she's only 54 right now, any of her friends are probably still alive right now, you know, and. And people who might have connections and.

[A]

Yeah, well, to pivot to kind of. Because I Feel like if there was an episode for a palate cleanser, this would be it.

[B]

Yeah. Let's chat. And just for things, a little happier for a minute. Yeah, I agree. We can't leave you all on this note, although we do do that sometimes.

[A]

Yeah, not today for that. And I have a serious question for you. I need your opinion.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So for my. My question for you is, do you have your phone? Yep. I'm sending you a picture and I need you fully honest opinion. Do I need this?

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Like, truly. Okay.

[B]

You only sent that to me because you knew I was going to say yes.

[A]

Well, I actually didn't know because it looks ridiculous. But I'm truly so cute.

[B]

And it'll protect gator from wildlife.

[A]

Yeah. So I'll put it on the. We'll put it on the screen so people can see. But this is called the coyote vest. And for people who have small dogs are probably like, yeah, we know we have them, but I have never owned a little dog before. Have we said we've officially adopted Gator? We have. Okay. We have.

[B]

No, you said, have we said I we adopted gator? And I was like, we have adopted gator. Yes, we have.

[A]

I just didn't know if we announced it.

[B]

I don't think you ever announced it. No, I saw a comment that you announced it in an advertisement.

[A]

Oops. I did do that. Well, yes. Okay, so to catch everyone up, this is our first time back recording in a few weeks just because we've both been on some separate vacations and things like that. So we pre recorded a ton. So I'm just a little bit lost in the timeline. But yes, gator is officially part of the national park after dark community. Gator is formerly known as Noah. We're all following here. He's a very tiny Chihuahua. And I've just. I grew up with Jack Russell's. My family at Jack Russell's, but never a dog that weighs like 11 pounds. And I'm truly concerned because not only have I physically with my eyes seen fox and coyotes on my property. My Merlin bird app going crazy today. I have eagles, I have hawks, I have vultures. I know for a fact there are bear. Like there's just so many things.

[B]

Probably owls at night.

[A]

I definitely have howls.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm just. There's bobcats around here. I'm just so worried about him.

[B]

I mean, I don't think it'll hurt. And it's really funny. And Danielle sent me a picture of this dog that literally has. It's like this head to toe, jacket on, except it has crazy spikes coming out of it everywhere.

[A]

So I did. I've been doing research on this. Okay. So this coyote vest is a brand, and it. It was founded after. I forget the dog's name, but it was like a little white dog that got nabbed by a coyote in front of these owners and was killed. So they. They invented this vest that has different. So I'm. So from my understanding, there's different, like, accessories you can get for it. One of them is called, like, the hawk shield. So it's the birds of prey can't get their talons into them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then those big, crazy, spiky things that aren't truly spikes, but they look like. I don't even know what. What would you describe that as?

[B]

It looks like those things when you're at the fourth of July that you wave around and they light up. Sparklers.

[A]

They look like sparklers.

[B]

No, not sparklers. They're plastic, but they, like, glow and they, like, float around.

[A]

Yeah, they. It looks crazy. But those are for the coyotes, to deter coyotes. And clearly, I don't know, it's like, am I gonna put this on Gator every single time he's outside?

[B]

I don't think so, but I think, like, if you wanted to put this on him, like, if you were hanging out in the yard and you had like a. Like on the porch or something and you didn't have him on a leash.

[A]

Because I do that all the. And I do that all the time.

[B]

Yeah, that might be nice. So you don't have to worry. I don't know. I think it's slightly ridiculous, but I also love it.

[A]

I just gotta know from people who are small dog owners, do you do this? Is this.

[B]

My dad has a Chihuahua, and he does not. And his Chihuahua has faced coyotes before Taco.

[A]

And he's lived.

[B]

He's a bad mama jama.

[A]

Yeah, he is the boy who lived.

[B]

He is the boy who lived.

[A]

But Taco's also pretty sturdy. Not saying he's fat, but he's overweight.

[B]

That's literally saying the exact same thing

[A]

in a nice way.

[B]

But he is. He is a little bit fat, but he is 13 pounds.

[A]

Okay. And Gator's 11.

[B]

Yeah. So he's a little smaller than Gator. Just like. I mean, you've seen him.

[A]

He's more compact. Gator's kind of long. He's long and skinny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know. Yeah, that's been on my mind today. Last night I was kept Awake by this awful case and then today I've been stressed out about getting eaten by picked up from. Mostly it's birds of prey because yeah,

[B]

I think he's a little heavy for birds of prey. 11 pounds is pretty big for a bird of prey. Yeah, I think they're more like I, not that it's impossible but I just think that they go more towards like voles and squirrels and things that are a bit smaller than him.

[A]

Yeah, I'm just, I'm nervous.

[B]

I still want you to get it. I think it's slightly ridiculous, but I do think you need it.

[A]

I just like imagine him trying to have a good time out in the sun on the porch and he's like get this fucking thing off me. Like he's gonna look like a little.

[B]

Get an all black one and he'll just look like he loves death metal.

[A]

That's true. It's like I'm just trying to make you look cool. Yeah.

[B]

And he would look cool.

[A]

So that's what's going on with me. What's going on with you?

[B]

Me? Well, I guess a lot. If you're watching you see that I'm totally in. Not my office anymore. So I did a cross country road trip recently and I am currently living in the Tetons Yellowstone area for the summer. So if anyone is listening and you have some wrecks, please let me know because I'm going to be here for a while.

[A]

Yeah. Just living life. Living the best western life you can. Yep, yep.

[B]

I'm going horseback riding tomorrow. I have been in the Tetons in Yellowstone so many times since I've been here.

[A]

I know. What day was it? I asked you something. I don't know what I asked you. I was in Nova Scotia with my mom and I asked you something. You're like, oh yeah, I'm headed to Lamar Valley today, but when I get back I'll do it. I'm like, oh God. Fine, fine.

[B]

Yeah, it's okay. I'm just scoping out all the best spots. So when you come here I can be the best tour guide.

[A]

That's right. Because I've never been to the Tetons. Finally Yellowstone.

[B]

Crazy. Yeah. I think you're really gonna like the Tetons too.

[A]

I'm excited.

[B]

Yeah. And I will say, I will say that I have a new appreciation for Yellowstone.

[A]

Okay, tell me more.

[B]

Yeah, so I've just been exploring a lot of Yellowstone that I had never seen before. And, and because before my experience mostly came from the geyser region over there. And where has the most tourists. And I just had so many experiences being, like, almost run down by tourists. And one of my friends almost got pushed into a geyser when we were there. And it was just like I kind of had a little bit of a. Like, oh, my God, this is way too much. But, oh, my God, Yellowstone is so beautiful. Like, I was. I. I've spent a few days there now and just the countryside there, of course the wildlife is incredible. But when you, like, really look at the landscape there, it's. The geology of Yellowstone is just absolutely insane. And you are on a super volcano and you're in geysers, but then you're like up in this flower meadow surrounded by mountains and lakes and then there's bears and wolves and it's just. I saw a badger bring ground squirrels to. They're done. I don't. It just. Yeah. There's just so much stuff around there. So I would like to formally take back everything bad I've ever said about Yellowstone.

[A]

My heart feels like it just grew three times in size. I'm so happy to hear you say that. As someone who has been a yellow Yellowstone defender and lover throughout. And I always preface it by being like, I know it's not everyone's favorite, but it's mine, you know, I see

[B]

why it was just exploring it more. And I mean, it's so massive. I haven't even touched the surface. And I've been going there like a few days and I have some backcountry stuff planned to really get to see the interior more. But I see why it was the first national park and why it inspired the world to do national parks. And it's just.

[A]

And why it's so special and why it's so special.

[B]

Yeah, I just. I think I'm looking at Yellowstone through new eyes and it's exciting. And I plan to spend a lot more time there because the Tetons are awesome. They're amazing. They're. The mountain range is probably one of the prettiest ranges I've ever seen. There's so much. There's cool swimming holes. The hiking is incredible. There's climbing. There's just like so much. But Yellowstone is so interesting. You know, there's so many.

[A]

It's dynamic. There's so much. Yeah. There's so much variety. Yeah. I think. And it's just. Yeah. I mean. And this is coming from someone who also has not seen nearly a fraction of what it has to offer. I was just.

[B]

And most people haven't, you know, unless you live and work there and I've gotten to talk to a lot of people who live and work in the area already and I have not. As of this recording I've not done anything. But if people are looking into stuff to do, Yellowstone Forever is there is their non profit partner that hosts all of these things within the park. Especially if you're a solo traveler or something and you are looking to get into the backcountry or just learn about the park a little bit more. They have everything from rides to or rides like drives through the park things drives through the park with professionals to actually getting in the backcountry to. There's just so much that they offer in programs that you can participate in and they're called Yellowstone Forever. I think I said that but in case I didn't I'm just over here getting a new appreciation for Yellowstone and the Tetons. I've gone to places in the Tetons I've never visited before and I'm just.

[A]

Well you have the time, right?

[B]

That's the thing is I'm not rushed.

[A]

Yeah. When we're just on these trips, even if you dedicate a week to a park, I mean like when I, my first trip to Yellowstone we were there for a week and granted I was with three different generations of people and we were limited with what we were able to do and things like that. But even if you do go with the intentions of being like we're we're getting in there, we're doing all this stuff, there's no way you would ever be able to experience it in the way that being somewhere for consecutive months allows you to. So that's a really cool opportunity.

[B]

Switzerland so there's a lot, there's a lot of ground cover. Yeah, a lot of ground to cover to explore, explore over here. But definitely getting, getting a new appreciation which is fun.

[A]

That's a perfect place to end. I'm so happy to hear that because it just feels like you're on my side now. You know like before I felt like we were.

[B]

It's not that I never thought Yellowstone was amazing. It was just that the tourism there kind of put a bad taste in my mouth because there were so many people and obviously that's wonderful that so many people want to cease such an amazing place. But now I feel like I'm seeing it a little bit different.

[A]

It just needed a second chance, you know? Yeah, that's how I feel about the Everglades. But it has nothing to do with the tourism. It's Just my person I went with.

[B]

Which can ruin a trip and has ruined trips.

[A]

Many a trips.

[B]

Many a trips. Yeah. I go with the right person.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, and I didn't tell you. And I'll. I guess I'll say it on the podcast because. Hi, Bridget. I. Bridget was in the Tetons, and I went hiking with her in the Tetons the other day. Yeah.

[A]

Hey, Bridget.

[B]

Hi, Bridget. See you in spa.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, there's. And I've run into so many people who listen.

[A]

Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Here. I never miss so many people who listen to the podcast since I've been here, and it's so cool.

[A]

Well, it's kind of cool to just be like. I mean, to get recognized is weird, but at the same time, it's like you're in the place to be. You're in a park, like, some of the most popular parks at the best time of year. It's kind of like you didn't just get recognized, like, on the streets of Vermont somewhere, which has happened. Has it You've been recognized in Vermont before?

[B]

I don't remember.

[A]

Someone said they liked your sweatshirt and you just said, thanks.

[B]

Yeah, but I don't think they knew who I was.

[A]

They knew who you were.

[B]

Don't say that. I still think about that interaction sometimes, and I just hope that they didn't know it was me.

[A]

Well, speaking of sweatshirts, another. I am being recognized. I was recognized twice on my own trip when I was in the Southwest, did five parks, and I forget their names. I'm sorry. I forget everyone's name. So it's not personal. But I. One of the park rangers in Guadalupe recognized me.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Which was really cool. That was like a. I was fangirling. I'm like, a ranger knows who I am. And then in the Mesa Verde Visitor Center, I saw our sweatshirt and somebody wearing it. I'm like, oh, my God, I have to say something.

[B]

Wait.

[A]

I'm like, wait, before you leave.

[B]

You didn't do what I did.

[A]

No, I didn't ignore him. I went up to him and said, hey, I really like your sweatshirt. And he turned around and he started to say, you know, like, oh, thanks. You know, and then he recognized me, like, midway through, and he's like, oh, my God, I can't believe it's you. We took a picture and stuff. He was really nice.

[B]

That's really cool.

[A]

Yeah. So that was fun.

[B]

Yeah. We have some travels this summer, so if you guys think you see us in the park, Come say hi because we probably are there.

[A]

Yeah. One of my bingo things that we did for our livestream, however many. Oh, January livestream. Like we made our 2026 bingo cards. One of my things. I put such a modest. I wanted to give myself some easy wins, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And one of my tiles I wrote, like, visit one new national park, like

[B]

five in one trip.

[A]

Boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. Yeah. Which I don't recommend. I totally. I did it in six. I did five parks in six days.

[B]

That's a lot of driving and not much time in the parks.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. That's tough.

[A]

Anywho, it was great. I had a really fun time. And I think that's about. It's fun enough. I think maybe I'll go order my coyote vest for King right now.

[B]

Please do. And post a photo of him in it because I want to see it personally. But now I'm sure everyone else does too.

[A]

I want to see pictures of people's little dogs in their coyote vest so I feel less alone.

[B]

Or maybe I'll just start a trend. Like Regina George when she cuts out her nipple things and then everyone else

[A]

does with the purple bra, like showing.

[B]

Yeah, Maybe it's a new trend. I'll get one for Amber. She'll look ridiculous. They probably don't even make her size. But.

[A]

No, for sure not.

[B]

But she could use one. There's so much wildlife out here.

[A]

I think for her it would be more of. They sell those collars that have the big spikes on them for bigger dogs.

[B]

She'd look bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bad girl.

[A]

Bad, Bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, everyone, we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening and we'll see you later.

[B]

We'll see you next time. In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye, guys.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another look location to put on your list. If you want more MPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After

[A]

Dark for more stories just like this one with the added bonus of exclusive content. You can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.

[B]

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[A]

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