Trail Tales 89

Summary

National Park After Dark — Trail Tales 89 (March 12, 2026) Hosts: Danielle & Cassie

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Episode Overview

In Trail Tales 89, Danielle and Cassie return to celebrate the wild, hilarious, emotional, and sometimes harrowing stories sent in by their listeners—focusing on real experiences in and around national parks and the broader outdoors. This episode strikes a balance between the mishaps, the inspiring, and the unexpected, continuing their mission to both revel in the unpredictability of wild places and inspire listeners to venture outdoors, prepared and respectful. They share listener mail, personal reactions, and candid conversations about everything from outdoor mishaps, accessibility advocacy, to transformative encounters on the trail.

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Key Discussion Points & Stories

Community Appreciation & Listener Mail

[01:12–04:20]

• Danielle shouts out a fan, Maddie, who opened two stores in Tennessee (Teleco Goods and Used Canoe), inspired by the podcast to make the outdoors more accessible. “What you’re building matters, and it shows in every episode.” (Maddie, 02:14)
• The hosts reminisce about their own favorite used gear shops and discuss the importance of accessibility and secondhand gear for outdoor inclusivity.

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Story 1: Survival of the Fittest (Chloe in Patagonia)

[04:27–09:09]

• Listener Chloe defers college for a semester-long NOLS expedition in Patagonia, discovering she's less experienced than she realized.
• Memorable mishap: Getting lost in dense Patagonian woods at night while learning to “use the bathroom” in the backcountry—paired with a nervous talker, ensuing panic, and eventual group rescue just before midnight.
• “This is where I learned Ryan was a nervous talker… I had to beg him to be quiet because… who can poop when someone is talking to them?” (Chloe, read by Cassie, 06:40)
• Chloe survives multiple mishaps, including close calls with wildlife and hazardous terrain, but treasures the challenge: “Type two, the best kind.”
• Hosts praise the value of gap years and learning outside your comfort zone.
  • “What a great decision to defer college to go do that. What an experience. I wish I did that.” (Danielle, 09:09)

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Story 2: Terrifying Mountain Lion Encounter (Madison in Rocky Mountain NP)

[10:53–25:49]

• Listener Madison recounts a high-altitude hike on the Ute Trail, meticulously prepared with bear spray and research, only to experience a heart-pounding animal encounter.
• Mistaking a marmot for a mountain lion, Madison panics, runs, and inadvertently abandons her partner, only to realize the “predator” was a large, indignant marmot.
  • “When I tell you my blood ran cold… every single piece of advice I had learned over the years was instantly thrown out the window… So what did I do, you may ask? I booked it.” (Madison, as read by Danielle, 19:38)
• The hosts laugh about classic outdoor panic, gendered audacity, and the importance of carrying bear spray even when others tease you for it.
  • “It’s never wrong to be prepared… if it’s permitted and it makes you feel better… do it.” (Danielle, 26:04)

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Mini-Story: The Bear Encounter Panic Recount

[27:02–28:47]

• Cassie recalls hikers in the Tetons who, upon seeing a bear near the trail end, panic and detour six extra miles with no water, whereas Cassie’s party passes the relaxed bear safely.
  • “I think about them all the time, and I hope they’re okay.” (Danielle, 28:47)

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Story 3: Badass Disability Advocates & Everest (Stephen on Accessibility)

[31:53–36:23]

• Listener Stephen, inspired by a recent NPAD accessibility episode, shares about Kim Charleston from the Perkins School for the Blind, a key leader in audio and Braille accessibility—including for the National Park Service.
• Kim is lauded for her advocacy: “Guide dog denials are not acceptable… it is a systemic discrimination issue and we will not accept no for an answer.” (Kim, as quoted, 34:04)
• Stephen highlights Carolina Packiny, a 29-year-old training to become the first deafblind person to summit Everest.
  • “Blindness is a spectrum and I love that Carolina aims to bring attention to that fact.” (Stephen, 35:32)
• Hosts reflect on breaking outdoor stereotypes and the drive to shatter societal limits for people with disabilities.

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Story 4: The Mythical Park Ranger (Riley meets Ranger Pam)

[37:20–46:08]

• Riley, previously not an outdoors person, joins her fiancé on a Guadalupe Peak hike, where she serendipitously meets the “mythical” 75-year-old Ranger Pam—local legend and record holder for most summits.
• Pam’s story: After her husband’s death, she joined NPS and became legendary for reports on trail conditions and her boundless love for hiking.
• Meeting Pam inspires Riley to embrace hiking, leading to visits to 12 national parks in two years.
  • “She definitely inspired me to live my life to the fullest.” (Riley, 45:54)
• Hosts champion how chance encounters and trail legends can ignite a lifetime of wonder.

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Story 5: Writing on the Wall (Anonymous at Mammoth Cave)

[48:22–54:43]

• An anonymous listener discovers her family’s last name—Kozad—etched among historic signatures in Mammoth Cave.
• The ranger’s legend: The “Giant’s Coffin” rock is (according to lore) the resting place of the giant Kozad, eternally watching over the caves.
  • “It was so unexpected... we shared a weird moment of awe and confusion.” (Anonymous, 50:41)
• The story leads to a family tradition of new park visits and reminds the hosts of the serendipitous magic in the parks—and the stories you uncover by asking questions.

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Story 6: I Should Have Just Signed Up for a Marathon (Breakup Healing in Estes Park)

[55:58–65:59]

• A listener details her post-breakup journey: A tough split leads to a solo 10-mile sunset hike with her dog, Apollo, in Rocky Mountain National Park.
• In the darkness, Apollo’s fear apparently confirmed by “glowing eyes” in the woods. After much vocal venting (to “the eyes” and her dog), she realizes she’s yelling at innocent fence post reflectors.
  • “After a weirdly long standoff where I explained loudly to the eyes why my ex was bad in bed, the creatures remained eerily still… they were circular reflectors on fence posts.” (Listener, 64:46)
• Lesson: “If you ever need to test your mettle after a bad breakup, consider a marathon… don’t go hiking alone at night.”
• Hosts reflect on the therapeutic powers—and pitfalls—of solo adventure after heartbreak, but agree that sometimes nature is the best place to hash it out.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “What you’re building matters, and it shows in every episode.” (Listener Maddie, [02:13])
• “Who can poop when someone is talking to them?” (Cassie reading Chloe, [06:40])
• “Every single piece of advice I had learned over the years was instantly thrown out the window… So what did I do, you may ask? I booked it.” (Madison, [19:38])
• “Guide dog denials are not acceptable… we will not accept no for an answer.” (Kim Charleston, [34:04])
• “She bragged about holding the record of most summits to the peak, estimating it’s now in the hundreds.” (Riley on Pam, [43:41])
• “After a weirdly long standoff where I explained loudly to the eyes why my ex was bad in bed, they didn't move… they were circular reflectors.” (Listener, [64:46])

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Host Conversations & Listener Engagement

• Candid, playful banter about “the audacity of men,” preparedness in the outdoors, and accepting Type 2 fun (“Type 2, the best kind”).
• Support for all levels of preparedness: “It’s never wrong to be prepared… if it allows you to enjoy yourself, just do it. Don’t let someone shame you for it.” (Danielle, [26:04])
• Joy in hearing about trail legends and the power of random encounters to transform our attitudes towards life outside.
• Encouragement for accessibility advocacy and breaking boundaries for people with disabilities to fully experience outdoor spaces.

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Timestamps of Notable Segments

• [01:12] Community shout-out: Teleco Goods & Gear and Used Canoe
• [04:27] Chloe’s Patagonia ordeal
• [10:53] Rocky Mountain marmot/mountain lion debacle
• [27:02] Panic-avoiding hikers in the Tetons
• [31:53] Disability advocacy and Everest climb
• [37:20] Meeting Ranger Pam at Guadalupe Peak
• [48:22] Mammoth Cave discovery and the giant Kozad legend
• [55:58] Breakup hike in Estes Park and “the glowing eyes”

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Final Thoughts

This episode highlights the unpredictable, heartfelt, and often humorous reality of outdoor adventures. From bathroom mishaps in Patagonia and “mountain lion” panic in Colorado, to unsung legends and accessibility milestone-makers, Danielle and Cassie cultivate a sense of community, resilience, and wonder in the wild. Listeners are encouraged to explore, stay prepared, honor all kinds of trail experiences, and—above all—to enjoy the view but watch your back.

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(To hear the bonus stories “Drugging Myself on Dramamine” and “Signs from a Fur Baby,” subscribe via Patreon or Apple Subscriptions.)

Transcript

[Danielle]

Foreign. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to National Park After Dark Trail Tales Edition. My name is Danielle. I'm Cassie and this is if you're new here. Hi. Hello and welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. This is a faction of National Park After Dark where we read your stories right on back to you. And it's thrilling and entertaining and amazing and funny and sad and all of the above.

[Cassie]

And we love it because we don't have to research it. And they're real stories.

[Al]

And if you're interested in sending in

[Cassie]

your own stories, what when you said

[Danielle]

it's so great because we don't have to research it, it's so true. Warmed my heart.

[Al]

It's so good. But if you want to send in your own so we have more things we don't have to research, you can go to npadpodcast.com and we have a submission link there.

[Cassie]

We'd love to hear from you.

[Al]

It does not have to take place in the outdoors or a national park. If you just think that we'll like your story, just send it to us.

[Danielle]

Yeah, shoot your shot. You know.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Before we start, I actually have a shout out really quickly to one of our listeners. If you notice, my lovely hat says used canoe. We got a package in our P.O. box. Don't worry, your gift is set aside for you out of this. This. I didn't take everything for myself, even though I could have and you would have never known.

[Cassie]

It's true.

[Danielle]

I would never do that to you. So we have a P.O. box, and we have listeners send in things like letters, notes, postcards, wedding invitations, things like that. And we got a really, really nice postcard and kind of like gift package from a listener. And I just wanted to shout her out because I think it's really lovely. Dear Cassie and Danielle, I wanted to take a moment to tell you how big of a fan I am of the podcast and the work you've been doing to get more people outside, especially the way you're creating space, space, visibility, and opportunity for women in the outdoor industry. What you're building matters, and it shows in every episode. Almost three years ago, I left a job I loved and could ride my bike to every day to take a pretty scary leap of opening my own outdoor business called Teleco Goods and Gear, an outdoor store rooted in the belief that access to the outdoors can change people's lives. I commute about an hour every day to the shop, and your podcast has become a go to on my drive. There's something incredibly grounding about listening to stories, research and conversations from y' all when while driving through the very landscapes in the mountains that you're helping people better understand and appreciate. Recently I've been lucky enough to expand opening a second shop two doors down called Used Canoe, a secondhand gear store focused on keeping quality outdoor gear circulating and accessible. At the heart of both businesses is the same mission, helping more people feel welcome, capable and excited to get outside and play. So thank you for all of the work that you do, the stories you tell, and the community you're helping to build. Thank you. You've been a real source of inspiration for me on some long days and early mornings and I'm so grateful for that. Maddie.

[Al]

Oh, congrats. That's huge. And it's amazing.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And then she sent like a little follow up little sticky note type of thing about me ripping into Gatlinburg because the her shops are in Tennessee. So look them up. Teleco and Used Canoe because those are both really cool. Like I love a used gear shop

[Al]

and totally bags from a used gear shop. And it I got it brand new almost. It was usually like a 500 sleeping

[Cassie]

bag and I got it for $90.

[Danielle]

Oh, that's a deal.

[Cassie]

So warm and comfortable.

[Danielle]

I used to live near Feral in in the Denver area and that store is huge when it comes to used outdoor gear and stuff. And we've had a couple questions actually on our Patreon community chats and Discord community about like used gear and like where to best what resources and stuff. So use Canoe. Check them out.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Anyway. Okay. Well I feel like I already read a little mini story so I think you should go first.

[Cassie]

If you insist, I will happily go first. My first story is titled Survival of the Fittest. Hi guys. I love the podcast and recently have been diving into the trail tale episodes. They are really helping boost my mood. Since I live in Buffalo, New York and with it being winter, I'm stuck indoors due to snow and freezing temperatures. While listening to others fun stories about their adventures, I figured I would send you one of my own. Throughout high school I have always been outdoorsy and enjoyed backpacking trips or backcountry trips. Sorry. I have been on youth rafting trips down the Grand Canyon a couple times so I naively thought I was very experienced. This led me to defer in college and signing up for Knowles trip when I was 19 years old. Due to my hubris I decided to do a semester backpacking and sea kayaking trip in the backcountry of Patagonia that's so cool. This is where I should mention that I had never been on an actual backcountry backpacking kayaking trip or even carried a pack heavier than 15 pounds. But since I have the audacity similar

[Al]

to a man, I thought, how hard can this actually be?

[Danielle]

Boys do it.

[Cassie]

I love that for you. Boys do it. I can do it.

[Al]

Well, let me. Well, let me tell you, it was

[Cassie]

the hardest thing I have done to date. I came to the realization the very first night when we dropped deep into the Patagonia fjords with our kayaks and no one around for hundreds of miles. The instructors decided the best time to teach us how to use the bathroom in the backcountry was at 8pm in the dark. Out of our group of 11, only me and three other kids had to go. So we left to wander into the wilderness. We were taught to walk 200ft from camp and water, dig a cat hole, yada yada. But the instructor, for some reason split our group into pairs. So me and this guy Ryan, who I basically did not know, found a spot. This is where I learned Ryan was a nervous talker. So as I was trying to poop

[Al]

in this cat hole in the middle

[Cassie]

of the woods in Patagonia with a novice level of wilderness experience, Ryan was rambling on about how he was feeling.

[Al]

Eventually, after 10 minutes, I had to beg him to be quiet because I

[Cassie]

was already horrified that I was doing

[Al]

this with a boy nearby, but also

[Cassie]

so who can poop when someone is talking to them. After we both finished our business, we looked around and noticed we had no idea where anyone else was. I compared it to the scenes in Jaws.

[Al]

When they all realized they are doomed, we started shouting.

[Cassie]

And instead of staying in one spot, we decided it would be best to continue hiking in the dark, trying to find someone. At this point, we have been in the woods for an hour and eventually met up with the instructor and two other kids. So we all assumed the instructor knew how to get back to camp. We were wrong. We followed her aimlessly walking around the woods. Well, not walking. Speed walking with this girl was fast. I was basically jogging behind her. This is where I would like to mention. In Patagonia, the forest is so dense that it has a false floor. So while you are walking, at any moment you can fall in a random hole that can engulf your whole body. While I was running after the instructor for my life, I heard a crash, followed by Ryan's panicked voice. Reuben, get out of the hole. They are leaving us behind. I cannot Blame him for this assumption, since the instructor charged ahead unaware that half his group was in a hole. I'm not proud to say this, but I did look back and think, this is every man for themselves.

[Al]

And trudged on. Eventually, after another two hours of hiking,

[Cassie]

we saw the glimmer of headlamps and I cannot explain the level of euphoria I felt at the site. It was close to midnight at this point and no one noticed. We were all still gone until then and they figured they should go look for us at this point. So that is basically how I almost went missing in the Patagonia wilderness, just because I had to poop. This was the first of many crazy things that happened on this expedition. There are too many stories to tell from this trip. All the way from getting attacked but uninjured by a sea lion, to dodging

[Al]

giant boulders with 65 pound pack packs

[Cassie]

on my back and constantly falling and rolling down mountainsides. This trip was the best, most exciting and most treasured memory I have. And even though it may sound uncomfortable, I cannot express how much fun it was. Type two, the best kind. If anyone ever gets a chance to go on one of these trips, do it. So everyone stay safe out there and never wander too far when looking for a cat hole. Chloe.

[Danielle]

Chloe. What a great decision to defer college to go do that. What an experience. I wish I did like that. I really do.

[Al]

Yeah, I was just such.

[Cassie]

I just think of when you're going into college, you're such a baby and,

[Al]

and you don't feel like one at

[Cassie]

the time, but you really are just so lost and you don't know what you're looking for.

[Al]

You haven't seen the world, most likely.

[Cassie]

I mean, most people going into college are going from their hometown to a

[Al]

new school and that is your world kind of opening up and you just

[Cassie]

really don't know yourself at that point. And I always, when I remember being

[Al]

in college, when people would defer a year, I always was under the assumption,

[Cassie]

oh, that's so bad, you're never gonna come back. Like this is it kind of thing. And it's so not true. It's just kind of taking a break from. You've already been in school for however many years, 12 years straight, you're just taking a break to find yourself a little bit before you come back and

[Al]

make a life altering decision on what

[Cassie]

you want to study.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I was always really afraid of like falling behind me. That was my whole thing. I'm like, I can't. What being college. When I'm like, 22. What?

[Al]

Like, oh, my God, I'll be so old.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't relate to anyone here.

[Al]

Yeah, I remember there was a guy who had joined the military, and then he was in college and he was in my class, and he was like four years older than me. And I remember thinking, oh, my God,

[Cassie]

you're so old now.

[Al]

I'm like, no, he wasn't.

[Danielle]

Was not. I know.

[Al]

He was 22. What?

[Danielle]

Yeah. Hindsight. It's 2020 for sure.

[Cassie]

Truly.

[Danielle]

Okay, my first story is titled Terrifying Mountain Lion Encounter in Rocky Mountain National Park. Hey, ladies. My name is Madison. My sister, my mom and I are huge fans of npid. I will keep my gushing about your podcast short and sweet by simply thanking you for all the company you girls have given me over the years. I get so excited whenever I get a sticker in the mail for being an outsider on Patreon. And I've progressively been sticker bombing everything I own with NPAD stickers.

[Al]

Love that.

[Danielle]

I feel like we gotta refresh some of our stuff too. We gotta get some new designs for your sticker bombing.

[Al]

I added some the other day.

[Danielle]

What? Really? Yeah. I didn't know this. I feel like I only own one NPAD sticker also, and it's nowhere to be seen. It's not even on anything.

[Al]

Yeah, me too, actually. Al has them al the time. He's probably wearing an NPAD sweater right now.

[Danielle]

We need to get him like a little button, you know, like the I voted button or sticker or whatever. Like, so you just always have it. That being said, I've always wanted to send in a trail tale that's worthy of being on the pod. I guess I could say I'm thankful that in all of my years of camping and hiking in my home state of Illinois, and the handful of national park and mountain hiking experiences I've had, I've not really had anything too crazy or scary happen to me. But finally, I guess I did indeed have a terrifying experience last August in Rocky Mountain national park, albeit one of the most embarrassing experiences of my entire life. My partner Michael and I were desperate for a kid free getaway last summer, and we were having that itch for the mountains, as many of us born and raised Midwesterners do. We had gone to Colorado once before in 2021 with my family, and it easily became one of the most beautiful experiences with nature we have ever had. We obviously fell in love with the mountains, revived our love for hiking, and picked up rock climbing at a local gym here In Pariah Parolla, Illinois around this time. Since we loved Colorado so much, we decided it was time to go back. Last year we especially loved Estes park and of course the Rocky Mountain national park and we felt our time there was limited as it was definitely more of a family kid centered vacation. We knew we not only wanted to go back, but also wanted to do some mountain hikes and rock climbing that would highly upset both of our parents greatly. I had a great itinerary planned, one that Michael found absolutely ridiculous because I took it so seriously. Seriously. I just knew we had to soak in as much as possible, especially with my now. So I thought well equipped skills that I had accumulated in the year since our last trip by listening to you ladies as well as tooth and Claw. I had listened to hours of you guys giving the ins and outs of hiking and what mistakes others have made that had gotten them into trouble as well as what to do in the case of an animal encounter. Thanks to the clawboys, I truly thought I 100 had what it took to be a tough mountain hiker. Girly with no fear. I had gear, medkits and of course bear spray. I had many hikes planned, but our most awaited hike was that of the Ute Trail, specifically the Alpine Pass entrance in the park which lays at the highest point of Trail Ridge Road right above the tree line in the mountains. This would be the highest altitude hike we had ever done, which says a lot for us flatlanders. We quickly learned from some locals that it may be a little cocky to attempt the hike in its entirety while having very little altitude experience. So we decided to only do a section of the trail called Tombstone Ridge with the peak of the hike being the most beautiful view of Longs Peak in the distance. When I tell you I was prepared, I mean I truly had every detail ironed out. Even having watched most of the hike on YouTube beforehand to get a feel for what we were getting ourselves into. I was doing this damn hike one way or another. Buckle up lungs, you weak little bitch. I've never looked at a YouTube like video beforehand, like tutorial kind of, you know, the walkthroughs of hikes that people do. Super helpful now thinking about it, but

[Al]

I've done it a handful of times

[Cassie]

and I think that it's kind of.

[Al]

It's great because you get to see exactly what you're getting into but also it kind of gives away everything.

[Cassie]

So it's kind of the level of prepared. Do you want to see everything right

[Al]

before or do you want a little bit of mystery.

[Cassie]

But it is nice because I've looked at different through hikes and like sections of through hikes before to be like could I do that? And I've watched this on YouTube.

[Danielle]

Yeah, the people who do that are the real MVPs. Like not only are you out there doing the actual trail yourself, but you're also recording and editing and being a content creator and doing all of that sort of stuff that takes a lot out of you. The expected weather for the week ahead ended up being very spotty when we arrived to Colorado, so we knew that waiting till towards the end of the six day trip to do this hike in hopes of allowing ourself to acclimate may be out of the question. We would likely have to find a weather window and just roll with it. On the third day we had our chance and took it. We were up long before sunrise to do the hour and a half drive through the park and up the mountain to the Alpine Pass. Pull off. There is something so surreal to see the landscape change from lush pine and green to a cold rocky desert wasteland before your eyes in the matter of minutes. The mountains will never not take my breath away and my heart will always reside within them. Anyways, cue my mom anxiously texting me because she knew what we were doing and that there was no way that she could stop. My mom loves to just reply to any of our outdoor plans. With all of the ways in which we will likely die and never come home, she was mostly terrified that we would get eaten by a bear or a mountain lion. And I'll admit that I was also nervous about animal encounters. But after many silly arguments with Michael and AI Chat telling us we had literally nothing to worry about, I felt pretty confident that we would not see any dangerous wildlife or I would be totally ready if we did. I was actually excited to see some wildlife after traveling to both Smoky Mountain park multiple times and Rocky Mountain while never having seen a bear once. I swear they're not real. I especially wanted to see the cute yellow belly marmots that lived in the alpine regions of the park. Fast forward to us suited and booted hiking six and all beginning our Lord of the Rings style hike across the shoulders of the mountaintops. Spirits were high despite the wind and the cold. I felt confidence that I didn't even know I had. We began the steady hike. Slash rock scramble upwards for felt for what felt like a while. It was absolutely dead silent up there. I mean, not even the chirp of a bird. Our shallow breaths were the loudest sounds around. We finally reached an area surrounded by boulder fields that made me feel like I was in. Like I was on an alien planet. The outcropping of rocks to our left were stunning, but also vaguely reminded me of that of Pride Rock from the Lion King. That was also around the time I felt the strong feeling of not being alone. I expressed this to Michael, which he quickly dismissed, of course, and we pressed on. As we came closer to a cluster of rocks as tall as a house, I heard a piercing sound come from the boulders. It was a distinct chirping sound, one I had heard many times in reels and on YouTube videos. One that mountain lions are known to make as a communication to other mountain lions or their cubs. I know you ladies know that exact sound. We do, we do. Well, maybe we'll let's insert a little chirp clip here. Okay, now everyone knows. Great.

[Al]

Now everyone understands what a mountain lion sounds like.

[Danielle]

I stopped dead in my tracks and grabbed Michael's arms. Stop. Shut up and listen. I whispered. Dude, that's a bird. He laughed. No, that sounds like a mountain lion call. We need to wait here, I said as I immediately started scanning the rocks for any sign of movement. Surely enough, within a few seconds, I saw a very large body with fur and a long tail swiftly jump between the rocks and behind a large boulder to peek its big head over the edge to get a good look at us the way we were. To it, ladies, when I tell you my blood ran cold, face turned pure white, pupils dilated, and then about shot myself. Every single piece of advice I had learned over the years was instantly thrown out the window in that very moment. So what did I do, you may ask? I booked it.

[Al]

I was going to say. Don't say you ran.

[Danielle]

I dropped my hiking poles where they were turned and sprinted as fast as I could, all while screaming, look, it's a mountain lion.

[Al]

Just to clarify, a mountain lion is much faster than you.

[Danielle]

Also, just to clarify, which this person already knows and we all know at this point in time, don't trigger a predatory response by acting like prey and

[Al]

running mouse, quite literally.

[Danielle]

I ran probably about 50ft until I realized I had just completely left Michael to be to able eaten by the big cat. It's like, oh yeah, him.

[Al]

The cat doesn't care about Michael. It cares about its prey that's running around like crazy right now.

[Danielle]

When I turned, he was still out there. In fact, he was approaching the area curiously to see what it was that we had saw. The chirping continued more Angrily. Now it's for sure a mama warning us to get the hell back. It probably has cubs. Get back here now. I yelled in my most mom voice that I could ever muster. Michael gave a laugh back to me and held out his hand to me to stay back while he had his bear spray in the other hand. The bear spray he laughed at me for bringing. By the way, it's like, oh, oh,

[Al]

now you want to use it?

[Danielle]

Interesting. How about now?

[Al]

Now it's coming in handy. What would have you done if we didn't have it?

[Danielle]

Slowly, he continued to approach the rock that the animal was hiding behind. Suddenly, the furry had disappeared back behind the rocks. I let out another deafening scream, and I was convinced this was it for him and she was coming to charge. I'll also add that despite my warnings, Michael is completely convinced that he could take out a mountain lion in a bar fight. Why are men this way? And that's why it's.

[Al]

It goes to the question of. They did a survey to a bunch of men and asked them if they thought they could take out a bear. And, like, 70% said yes.

[Danielle]

I've had this conversation with a man

[Al]

who thought that they could take out a bear.

[Danielle]

Yes, A black bear. They're like, I don't know if I could do a grizz, but for sure, black.

[Al]

You can't do black bear. I'm like, maybe a baby black bear.

[Danielle]

It's like, I don't know if I can continue this relationship. Okay. Like, as a friend. This is embarrassing.

[Al]

I can't be associated with this.

[Danielle]

You know, you are who you associate with professionally. I have to separate from you. Also. They think they can land planes. They think they can do a lot of things. This ties back to the audacity thing that you. You talked about in your first story, the audacity of men. You know, yeah. Yeah.

[Al]

I feel like I could land a plane. What if someone gave me Cassie full instructions over the phone and told me exactly what I needed to do? I think I could do it. The audacity of men is in me as well.

[Danielle]

I don't even know how to respond. So I'm gonna just continue this story.

[Al]

Thank you.

[Danielle]

We can talk later. But then, to my embarrassing surprise, what appears out of the other side of this boulder? The biggest, and I mean largest marmot I had ever fucking seen. She was absolutely pissed and probably terrified because this random creature came to her peaceful home just to scream her head off and run for her life. She probably felt the most proud she had ever felt as a Marmot. Watching a slightly overweight Midwestern woman running for the hills from her like she was a beast of the mountains.

[Al]

Wait, so it was a marmot this whole time?

[Danielle]

It was a mark?

[Al]

Yes, I believed you that it was a mountain.

[Danielle]

Like this whole time you had a. You had a soft hold. Michael bursted out in hysterical laughter as I wiped my tears and yelled at him for scaring the out of me. My tears turned to embarrassed laughter as I threatened to whack Michael with my hiking sticks that I had retrieved from the ground. I just have to say I had no idea marmots got that big and I didn't even know their tails could get that long. So that mixed with the pride rock vibe of the area was giving me. Maybe you can. You can see how my fear was slightly justified. Maybe. Probably not. I'm a wussy and I am aware we did end up continuing the hike and at first I was so relieved that we seemed to be the only ones out there to see and hear the moment, I quite literally crashed out entirely. But unfortunately, about 20 minutes later, a lone hiker caught up to us and passed by giving a soft chuckle as they did. There is no way they didn't hear me. As I said, it was dead silent out there and any sound echoed for miles. At that point, you could have just left me out there to die. I was so embarrassed. Long story short, we ended up having to turn back towards the very end of the hike as there were some troubling clouds coming in the distance. And I know a place like that is the last place you want to be in a lightning storm. At least I did that, right? I'm glad we did, because just as we reached our car, the storm quickly rolled in. We still got an amazing view of Longs Peak in the distance. And my soul felt fulfilled to be in awe of such a breathtaking place. And I guess I got just what I originally wanted to see. A marmot. Just not in the way I had expected. Anyways, I hope this is a great lesson for all of the newbie hikers out there who think they know it all. When it comes to animal encounters in the wild, we all love to pass judgment on victims and think of all the things we would have done if we were them. But you really never know just how your body will react to fear in the heart. In the heat of the moment, it was truly like my brain and body were separate in that moment and my body totally won. I'll also add that later in the trip, even our rock climbing Guide in Estes laughed at my carrying of bear spray. Meanwhile, there was sadly a mountain lion attack in the Estes area here just recently, where the woman sadly passed away. That being said, I will continue to enjoy the view, but watch my back. Thanks so much, ladies. Love you always. Here's to many more mountain adventures. Hopefully next time I can keep my. Together

[Cassie]

I can. Wow.

[Al]

Well, I agree with the last sentiment where it's never wrong to be prepared. And I think if you're in a location that allows you to carry bear spray, it's not a bad idea to

[Cassie]

have something to protect you, even if it seems silly.

[Al]

Yeah, I just use it against a market.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I kind of get a little upset is the wrong word. But I think it's kind of. I don't like when people shame other people for trying to be prepared, and especially when it comes to bear spray. And I think that stems from, like, all the online forums of people like will die on the hill, that black bears are not dangerous, and that you are the stupid one for carrying bear spray in black bear territory only. And I think that, like you said, if it is allowed, because there are certain places it is illegal to carry bear spray, but if it's permitted and it makes you feel better and it adds this level of comfortability and you can enjoy yourself a little bit more on a hike, which you've been looking forward to or planning for however many months before you go, like, do it. And don't let somebody shame you into thinking that you're overreacting because you're not.

[Al]

Yeah, it's better to feel prepared in your comfortability. This story kind of reminded me of, was a little bit different, but it was just giving me flashbacks to my own little trail story, which I think I've shared before on the podcast, so I'll keep it short, but when I was in the Teton, were hiking on a trail and we saw the. And we were returning back and we saw these hikers that were running towards us, and we were like, hey, what?

[Cassie]

They're like, there's a bear. There's a bear down there. There's a bear. And so they had made the decision, even though where the bear was was

[Al]

like 0.2 miles from the end of

[Cassie]

the trail, they decided to turn around and do.

[Al]

I think it was. It's been a while now, so I forget, but I think it was an extra six miles that they. The way that they were going to go and loop back around and go the other side.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Al]

And they had no water. They're like, red in the face, terrified.

[Cassie]

They're like, don't go that way. There's a bear.

[Al]

And there were three of us, and we were like, we're gonna go this way.

[Cassie]

And we went.

[Al]

And we ended up linking up with two other people who were also walking that way. So then there was five of us, and we walked by, and there was a bear. It was black bear, and it was

[Cassie]

a mama bear, and she was just

[Al]

sitting under a tree with her cub that was rolling around in the moss. And she was just watching us, didn't care. Walked right by her, totally fine. And these other people had made the decision to fully run and go the other direction and kind of freak out a little bit, and it wasn't the right decision. I hope they made it okay because they had no water and it was really hot, too.

[Danielle]

It's like, I think about them all the time.

[Al]

I think about them all the time, and I hope they're okay.

[Danielle]

Yeah. I hope they're doing well.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

But I thought you were gonna. I thought you were gonna say the story reminded you of. And it's been years since you told the story, but. And we don't have to rehash it, but about the chickens outside your tent or something.

[Al]

Oh, when, Al.

[Danielle]

When?

[Al]

I'll just watch it.

[Danielle]

We.

[Al]

We were camping one time, and we weren't in a campsite. We were just camped in the woods somewhere. And we woke up in the morning, and I kept hearing footsteps outside of our tent. And I was like, oh, like, what is that?

[Cassie]

Someone's outside of our tent. What is that?

[Al]

And we had seen a car kind of pull that. The night before, there had been a

[Cassie]

car kind of close to us, and

[Al]

they were shining our lights on us, and it was kind of weird.

[Danielle]

And.

[Cassie]

Yeah, what are they doing? But we don't know if they could see us because we were in the

[Al]

woods, and they could have just been parked on the side of the road kind of where we were. And then there were these chick. There were these sounds that were coming around outside. I'm like, I'll go check it out. He's like, I want to check it out. And he's all scared. And then he opens the tent, and I'm just sitting there, like, heart racing.

[Danielle]

It's like, is he about to get killed in front of me? Yeah.

[Al]

Is there someone out there stalking our tent? And he walks out and starts laughing, and he's like, there's a bunch of chickens out here. Like, they scared us, though. You never know what's lurking out there.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Al]

Could be a marmot, could be a

[Danielle]

chicken,

[Al]

could actually be a bear or a mountain lion.

[Danielle]

Yeah, Cool.

[Cassie]

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[Al]

Well, my next story is titled Badass

[Cassie]

Disability Advocates Women in Another Historic Everest Climb. First time writer here. I love the podcast and you two are frequent companions of my Red Heeler, Mixed Dog, Whiskey and me while we go on our daily walks. This isn't really a trail tale per se, but your recent episode about accessibility and national parks inspired me to write in because it relates to topics near to my heart and my my career. I work at Perkins School for the Blind where Helen Keller was a student in the late 1800s. I have the daily privilege of working alongside disability rights advocates who continue Keller's legacy, especially my boss, Kim Charleston. On top of ensuring blind and low vision people have access to audio, braille and large print books and other materials through Perkins Library Service, which includes the largest collection of braille books books on the East Coast. Kim devotes her life to fighting for accessibility for disabled populations everywhere. She was a key player in the campaign to make ATMs and currency accessible. Ten dollar bills with tactile markings are scheduled to begin rolling out in the United States in 2026 and lobbies Hollywood to provide audio description for television shows and movies. She is also an advocacy leader for guide dog users, recently speaking out as a leader at the rideshare rally protests in San Francisco, which urged Uber to enforce policies that would prevent drivers from unlawfully denying rides to blind riders with guide dogs an all too common problem.

[Danielle]

Kim. Oh my.

[Al]

Doing all the. Doing the most.

[Cassie]

Kim.

[Danielle]

Yes.

[Cassie]

Kim's loyal German shepherd guide dog Isabel stood at her side at the entire rally as Kim shouted her message into a microphone. Guide dog denials are not acceptable and the blind community is unified. It's time to acknowledge that it is a systemic discrimination issue and we will not accept no for an answer. As the first female president of the American Council of the Blind, she was also instrumental in the advocacy for and the creation of audio described materials in national parks. With Kim's involvement in ACB's partnership with the University of Hawaii and the National Park Service, 15 park sites across California were able to translate their visual printed brochures and guides into fully accessible materials available on websites and mobile apps for blind and low vision park visit. That's amazing, Kim.

[Danielle]

I just. I'm so impressed. I know you're not done yet, but this is like I feel like I'm busy, you know. And then I read about someone like Kim and I say, oh, I haven't done much.

[Cassie]

Yeah. And just to be doing it for

[Al]

such a positive cause. Positive cause.

[Cassie]

So on the topic of badass women leading the way for people with disabilities, here's part two. I only recently just became aware of this, but your telling of Eric Wiemeyer's story made me feel like I had to bring this to your attention. A 29 year old woman named Caroline Packiny has been preparing to become the first ever deaf blind person to climb Mount Everest. She was born with Usher syndrome, which is a rare genetic disorder that results in both hearing and vision loss. She has completed marathons, an ultramarathon which I didn't even know was a thing before, a winter training course, and climbed Mera Peak in Nepal, all in preparation for the big climb. Carolina says that she wants to bring awareness and understanding to spectrum of blindness, which is a noble goal. In my work at Perkins, I can see how little is actually understood by the general population about blindness, not to mention death. Deaf Blindness Blindness is not always just lights off and manifests in many forms. Many times blindness is not even a result of the eye being unable to see, but a result of the brain being unable to interpret the information that the eyes are sending. Cerebral cortical visual impairment AKA cvi, as we like to say at Perkins, blindness is a spectrum and I love that Carolina aims to bring attention to that fact. I hope this message can help bring attention to Carolina's historic climb, which is scheduled for May of this year. Enjoy the view, but watch your back and make sure everyone has the same opportunities to enjoy the great outdoors. Stephen.

[Danielle]

Wow. May. That's right around the corner.

[Al]

Yeah, I'll be looking out for that.

[Cassie]

I can't wait to cheer them on

[Al]

and, and see how it goes and accomplish it.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Cassie]

I mean, that's amazing. That's really exciting. And I love, I know I've said this before, but I just love when society tells a person this is not the space for you or you are

[Al]

not able to do this, and they

[Cassie]

just shatter that expectation and they're like, absolutely not.

[Al]

You do not set the limits.

[Cassie]

For me, I do. And I can. And I can accomplish way more than

[Al]

what you believe I can. And I just, I, I, I love stories like that and I think that's amazing.

[Danielle]

Yeah. So we'll definitely be keeping a lookout for information and news about her. Maybe we can follow, I'm sure the Perkins School will be maybe if we like follow them, if they're putting updates about it and stuff.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Yeah. Cool. Okay. My second story is titled the Mythical Park Ranger. Oh, hello Cassie and Danielle.

[Al]

Mythical Park Ranger. Like the mythical moon moose.

[Danielle]

Oh, right. It's a new exist, a new way of saying moose aren't real.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

Okay. Yeah. The Mythical Park Ranger. Hello, Cassie and Danielle. I just started listening to NPAD less than a year ago and it has become my new favorite podcast. I started when my now fiance and I were looking up information about the Great Smoky Mountains and what trails we should do. And during our seven hour drive we were browsing Spotify, literally just looking up Great Smoky Mountains National Park. We were supposed to be researching trails, but I stumbled upon your podcast of Trenny and being a true crime lover, forced him to listen with me. This story takes place back in 2024. I was not a hiker, did not like camping and preferred beaches for vacations. My now fiance loves the outdoors. He has visited at least 25 national parks in the past four years. Loves to camp. Camp, never has a plan and loves to hike. Me, not so much. I never wanted to go on a hiking trip and definitely never wanted to camp. But when he was planning a trip to New Mexico and Texas with his friends, I started to get a little jealous. I knew they were hiking, but I had never been to either of those states. And I kind of wanted to go, but I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of knowing his interests were finally intriguing me. But if there's one thing my fiance knows is that I can't hide anything. So for Christmas, he surprised me with my plane ticket and everything paid for to go on this trip. And I was so excited. Green flags.

[Al]

Huge green flag.

[Danielle]

Yeah, because that could have easily been like, this is a. Like, this is my thing with my friends and you don't even like it.

[Al]

Have you seen that guy on Instagram where he watches videos and he takes a giant flag and it's either green or red, and he like, runs around. I just pictured me running across a field with a giant green flag right now.

[Danielle]

Yeah, I think Justin is his name. Justin or something like that.

[Al]

I don't remember. He pops up in my for you page a lot.

[Danielle]

I actually follow him.

[Al]

Oh, really?

[Danielle]

Like, I know he just moved to Spain. Good for him.

[Al]

You're following his life.

[Danielle]

Yes. And I had one month to get in shape to hike. Plot twist. I didn't. I was very happy to learn this wasn't a camping trip because I had only camped at music festivals prior to this and usually was drunk the entire time. I had no idea what I was in for. Regardless, I'll brush past White Sands and Carlsbad Caverns because although they were phenomenal, the story is not about that. My first real hike ever was climbing Guadalupe Peak in Guadalupe Mountains National Park. I know what you're thinking.

[Al]

Why impressive.

[Danielle]

Why did I choose this hike? I didn't. I was at the mercy of three boys and a dream. I had no input on any of it and I was just along for the ride. When we arrived at the Guadalupe Mountains National Park Visitor center, they asked what we were hiking. When we told them the peak, things got real serious. They asked if we were sure because wind chills got below zero at the top. The boys enthusiastically nodded and agreed. They asked if we had enough water and snacks because it was almost 8 miles round trip trip. They nodded and agreed. I hoped my fiance packed my snacks because my hydro pack was filled with water and only water. Finally, the ranger told us that we might see Pam. We asked, who's Pam? Pam is a local legend. Pam is a badass. Pam had climbed Guadalupe Peak once or twice a week for over five years. She was the only one who noted the trail conditions. All on foot, foot and all. At 75 years old.

[Al]

That's amazing.

[Danielle]

We chuckled as the ranger was talking about Pam as if she was this Mythical creature. The boys filled up on extra water, and we made our way back to the trailhead. The other ranger gave us the same warning to leave no trace and pick up your poop. As if I was going to poop on the side of the mountain. No, this is not a poop story. When we started the hike at about 8am it was hot. I was told to wear layers, and the first almost two miles of Guadalupe Peak is uphill, very few switchbacks. And did I mention hot? I had to keep stopping, feeling embarrassed that I was going to keep the boys behind. They insisted it was okay. They knew what they were getting into. I love how this connects because you just also talked about the accessibility trail tale, your last story, which was because of my accessibility episode, which was about Guadalupe Peak week. In part. At least it's all coming together. Continuing on this hike, we switched biomes. It was surreal and magical. From sandy desert to lush forest, and eventually we even hit some snow. There were very few other people on the trail. The ones we started with most likely turned around and we saw some early risers already on their way down. The one thing I learned early on is no matter how close you think you are to the summit, but you're a lot farther than you think. Yeah. Welcome to what is torture in the Outdoor World.

[Al]

We Love it.

[Danielle]

Type 2. When I thought I could see the peak, I learned it was actually behind what I was seeing. But no matter how tired I was, I was in awe of the beauty that I didn't even know existed.

[Al]

The good old false summit. We know it well. We know it well.

[Danielle]

We crossed a pretty spooky bridge, and there was some rock scrambling ahead. We took a short break for water and a snack, and we heard somebody coming down the trail. We saw the ranger uniform, and then we saw her face. And then we saw her name tag. That's Pam, I whispered to my fiance. No way. He whispered back. The entire trail, we were making jokes about seeing Pam, not thinking we'd actually run into her. And there she was, coming our way. She smiled as she started to pass us, and I had to speak up. Hi. Are you Ranger Pam? I asked, almost too giddy. It felt like seeing a celebrity, even though I had only heard about her a few hours prior. I am. She gleamed. Are they talking about me down there? Again, we all laughed and nodded. Yes. They say you climb this trail a lot. She told us that her and her late husband love to hike, and they traveled all throughout the United States. Seats. He eventually got sick and passed away. And instead of sitting around and doing nothing. Pam joined the National Park Service. She said that the Guadalupe Peak is her favorite trail, and because so many people trek up it, she wants to climb it in the mornings and talk to those on their way up to warn them about conditions of the trail. She bragged about holding the record of most summits to the peak, estimating it's now in the hundreds. Hearing her story was absolutely amazing. Me at 24 years old with the Guadalupe Peak as my first ever real hike, Meeting a legend ranger Pam, who was probably on her 137th trek up the mountain, and I was astonished. Pam eventually warned us of some ice up near the top and wind chill and that the wind chills were hitting zero degrees. We thanked her for her story in the warning and we're on our way. I won't bore you with the details from the rest of the hike, Although the summit was freezing. At the top of the peak is a USPS monument, which was really cool. I even FaceTimed. My mom bragged that I had just climbed a mountain. Once we climbed back down, I felt pride I never had before. I just climbed a freaking mountain. I never knew that was something that I would even want to do. I crossed off a bucket list item I never knew I even had. We tried to find Pam at the visitor center afterwards, but we soon learned that Pam comes and goes as she pleases. And I can only imagine that's the feeling of being truly free. Since that first trip. I have now hit 12 national parks in two years. The coolest being hiking the crater at Haleakala. Another crazy story. My favorite Olympic twilight fan for life. And the most recent, biking eight miles through the Everglades. I'm not sure I can give all of the credit to Pam, but she definitely inspired me to live my life to the fullest. A lot of beaches are the same, and as much as I love the sun, there's just something truly magical and of about seeing a geological wonder with your own two eyes. Safe to say I am now obsessed. That's my story of the beginning of my hiking journey. I'm so grateful to have the opportunities to see such beautiful places and I can't wait to see what I encounter next. Stay safe and watch your back. You never know when local legends will inspire the next phase of your life. Riley.

[Cassie]

I love that story, Riley.

[Al]

I feel like it just embodied everything about what's so special about national parks. From the landscape that you're in, the feats you accomplish while you're there, the

[Cassie]

friends you get to spend time with while you're out there and the people that are actually a part of the Park Service and them sharing their love and knowledge of the places that you are visiting as well.

[Al]

And I just feel like it just

[Cassie]

embodied so much of what the National Park Service is.

[Danielle]

Yeah, it had it all. Yeah, it's a great origin story for sure.

[Cassie]

For sure.

[Al]

You just went head first right into hiking and the mountains and the outdoors. You didn't, you didn't walk, you ran. And now you're in it.

[Danielle]

And I can imagine the Guadalupe Peak like reaction.

[Al]

What are you doing?

[Danielle]

That's your first. Okay.

[Al]

You know, sometimes you just gotta go all in.

[Danielle]

Yep. Take the exit, turn right into the drive through.

[Al]

Nope, I'm making dinner tonight.

[Danielle]

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[Al]

Salad? Sorry.

[Danielle]

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[Danielle]

Cool.

[Al]

Well, my next story is titled Writing on the Wall.

[Cassie]

Hi, Cassie and Danielle. I'll start off by saying I love the show. I mostly caught up with old episodes, but I just joined Patreon last month and am loving all the bonus episodes. I never thought I'd be a true crime girly, but here I am. I love the combo of genres you cover and often tell anyone who will listen about this super interesting episode I just listened to. I'm not sharing my name today for reasons that will soon become apparent. The trail took place in the summer of 2022 when my family took a trip to Mammoth CA Caves National Park. We spent a couple of days at the caves before moving farther east to Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Yes, we stayed in Gatlinburg.

[Al]

Yes, we had the same experience that Danielle did and we are so sorry

[Cassie]

we didn't warn you.

[Danielle]

Apology accepted, I guess. God. Still a sensitive topic.

[Cassie]

We went on the extended historic tour of the caves where we learned all about the tuberculosis hospital as well as the domes and drip stone tour. Our kids were 5 and 11 years old, and despite the many stairs we had to traverse for tours, they loved it. Not only was it a literal breath of fresh air to be underground during the late summer heat, but the interpretive park rangers did a fantastic job of sharing cool facts about the cave formations and the history behind the park. I love listening to the rangers when I'm at the parks, which is why I was pretty annoyed when one of my kids started pulling on my sleeve and whispering Mom, mom, mom in my ear in the middle of a ranger talk. We were in an area with a formation called the Giant's Coffin, a place where people used to sign their names on the rock before the caves became a National park in 1941. Frustrated, I tried to make shushing gestures at my child, but she wouldn't stop trying to get my attention. Finally, I caved, pun intended, and whispered what? In her ear as gently as I could. You know that mom voice where you're trying not to sound like a but

[Al]

you just can't help it?

[Cassie]

That was me. Her response floored me as she whispered back, why is your name on the wall? What the hell are you talking about?

[Al]

I thought.

[Cassie]

Looking towards where she pointed, I saw our last name spelled out in gigantic letters among the many signatures. It was so unexpected that I immediately forgave her for interrupting my focus on the ranger. I nudged my husband to show him, and we shared a weird moment of awe and confusion. We finished the tour but never got around to asking the ranger if they knew anything about it. Later that night, we googled it and found out there's a legend about a giant named Kozad, our last name that cave guides used to tell to tourists. I've copied the story from the NOS website below.

[Danielle]

NPS probably oh, that's probably true.

[Al]

I'm like, I don't know what NOS

[Cassie]

is, but NPS this large boulder is 48ft in length, 20ft in height, and 8ft wide. It weighs approximately a thousand tons. On the surface you can see many historic signatures as well as some not so historic signatures. Names like J.N. mcDowell, MD, 1839 is considered historic. The signature was scribed before the cave became a National park in 1941. After the establishment of the national park, making marking on the cave walls became A federal fence. The earliest name for this particular landmark was steamboat. By the 1840s, visitors decided it looked more like a giant's coffin. Guides began to weave tales about a race of giants that once roamed this land. The smallest among them began to venture daily into these depths. Depths Inside the cave, he found a world untouched by the light and filled with strange creatures living in the darkness. The young giant named Khozad befriended the creatures, promising to protect them and their home. Local tribes would bring offerings to the cave entrance daily for the kind giant. As time passed, days became years, and years became centuries. But each night, the offerings would be gone. A peaceful relationship developed between the tribes and Khozad. Entry to the underworld would remain open as long as no harm came to the cave or those that dwelled there. One night, a tribal warrior was on patrol around the entrance and noticed the offerings had not been accepted. Tribal leaders were worried they had offended the giant. So they sent their finest warriors and scholars on a pilgrimage to find the gentle giant and to assure the treaty was still in place. With their torches held high, the group journeyed into the depths. Shadows danced in the flickering amber light that stretched up against the ashen stone walls. Pushing deeper into the quiet void, they found the aged gentle giant sleeping on the stone floor. They tried many things to rouse him, but he would not stir. The tribe built the stone coffin that protects him today. For it is told that one day, when his cave friends need him, the giant shall rise from his slumber and walk these passages once more. Till that day, people like you and I can help protect the subterranean world for future generations. And this is why I've asked not to share my first name, since my last name is plastered in enormous letters for the whole world to see. Since we don't know many people who share our last name, it was really neat to see it in a national park. I usually don't condone acts of vandalism in parks, but I guess I can

[Al]

make an exception for this one.

[Cassie]

It is a fun park memory for my family that is unlike any other. Ever since that trip, we've continued to go to a new national park or forest each year. This year, we will be heading to Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons. I'm already putting together a podcast playlist to listen to while we're there. We snapped a quick picture of our namesake cave formation, which I'll share with you. Thank you for advocating for nature and wildlife and for creating a community of compassion and increasingly compassionless. This world, it goes a long way towards keeping my mental health in check in this crazy world. You guys rock. I hope to be able to join you on a trip someday. Until then, enjoy the view and watch out for weirdly specific graffiti in caves.

[Danielle]

What a cool story to have linked to your name. Yeah.

[Cassie]

And just a really fun way to

[Al]

learn more about the location that you're

[Cassie]

in to be like, wait, I connect to that. What is that? And doing your own research and then

[Al]

finding this whole legend that took place, it's kind of the bread and butter of what we love to do when we're visiting national parks. And it's so cool. You just saw your name literally written on the wall.

[Danielle]

That people ask us all the time, how do you find stories? Kind of like your daughter, just. Yeah, it's like, huh, that's interesting. I wonder what that's all about. And then it leads into this new chapter of the park that you didn't know existed. And to be fair, Cassie and I have done a lot of research on Mammoth Caves and other parks, and I had never heard of this legend.

[Cassie]

Same.

[Danielle]

So you learn something new all the time. And sometimes children open your eyes to it. Even if you have to have mom bitchy voice. I can just be like, what? That's my. What is it? What?

[Cassie]

You're embarrassing me.

[Danielle]

What? You. I think it's like you keep your teeth closed.

[Cassie]

What?

[Danielle]

What? I feel like I got. I got it down. What? Okay. And I don't even have kids. It's just natural. Okay. My last story is titled I should have just signed up for a marathon. Hi, ladies. I so enjoy listening to your podcast. You're a staple for my long drives into the backcountry to go adventuring. In fact, I found you after the very breakup this trail tale is about, which I guess is as good as a lead in as any. As I said, I went through a tough breakup with the aforementioned ex who I hiked with. We'll call him the king of all. To keep it short. We. We had been together for five years. He cheated on me emotionally and physically. Said some awful things. Comparing me to the friend y. She was a mutual friend. He cheated on me with calling me unattractive because I don't wear makeup and unmotivated because I don't want to be a C level executive. You know, the typical land you in therapy kind of breakup. Such a delight. God. And it all sounds like it comes back to the audacity.

[Al]

The audacity. It remind if for you. You're watching Love is. We're watching Love is Blind right now.

[Danielle]

Oh, yes. We are.

[Al]

One guy who I don't even know what he does for a job. And he talks to a literal doctor

[Cassie]

and is like, why don't you do Pilates every day?

[Danielle]

She's an internal medicine doctor.

[Al]

An internal medicine doctor who I have personally had internal internal medicine doctors. And they're literally like, some of the smartest people that exist.

[Danielle]

Yeah. And. And she's so kind and nice.

[Al]

She's beautiful. She's got it together. She.

[Danielle]

Her house. Have you seen her house?

[Al]

Amazing.

[Danielle]

Yes.

[Al]

And then he. And it turns out he's like.

[Danielle]

I just saw.

[Al]

He's being sued for, like, over $60,000 in debt, and he. I don't even know what he does for a job. You know, he is like. And he has the audacity to put this woman down and say that he's interested in another woman over her.

[Danielle]

I don't want.

[Al]

Like, that's just the vibes that this. This guy is giving.

[Danielle]

The king of all is giving. Yeah. I saw somebody compare him to Bilbo Baggin and I can't see it. Now. They're like, this Bilbo Baggins looking like. Okay. Yep. Nothing against Bilbo Baggins, but.

[Al]

Yeah, but you have a literal, beautiful internal medicine doctor. Who is it the. Oh, I love. I also love the friend on if people aren't watching. Love is blind and don't know what we're talking about.

[Cassie]

I'm sorry.

[Al]

But there's one friend. I think her name's Anna. And she just goes up to him and she's like, you think you're ever gonna find another hot doctor?

[Danielle]

I think it's Amber. Is it Amber?

[Al]

Is it Amber?

[Danielle]

She's the blonde.

[Al]

Yeah, she's the blonde. And she's just like. She's just such a girl's girl. And I'm here for it.

[Danielle]

Legitimately laughed in his face.

[Al]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

When she said it too. And then. And kind of like flipped her hair and walked away.

[Al]

Do you think you're ever gonna get better?

[Danielle]

I don't know. I don't know what her name is, but I agree.

[Al]

It starts with the name best friend we all need.

[Danielle]

Yep. Okay. So we can envision this man.

[Al]

We know exactly this kind of guy. And we are on your side already.

[Danielle]

No questions and a friend. Don't even get me started. Don't even get me started. Okay. So I threw myself into therapy like a fat kid on cake. And as with most therapy, it started me down. The whole, why did I do that? Self reflection journey. And for some God forsaken reason. As part of this journey, I suddenly felt the need to test my metal by doing a 10 mile sunset hike. Just me and my faithful dog, Apollo. Five miles in, watched the sun go down over the beautiful Estes Park, Colorado, with gorgeous views of Rocky Mountain National Park. And then five miles of out alone in the dark. Easy peasy. Now, Apollo is a 100 pound Rhodesian Ridgeback, the dogs that were bred to hunt lions. However, my 100 pound hound is afraid of chickens. So unless something has gone catastrophically wrong, there is no lion hunting in his future. Or mine for that matter. That being said, while he may be afraid of everything from hardwood floors to cinder blocks, don't even ask. It also turns out that he might be smarter than me. While I was feeling whimsically empowered and fiercely independent, sitting on a mountaintop, watching the sun drop below the horizon, Apollo started to get antsy. His behavior was very clearly telling me, mom, it's getting dark and it's time to go. But was this tough woman going to be turned away by a little dark? Absolutely not. So I stubbornly stayed in that spot, eating gummy worms until the last ray dropped dropped behind the distant mountains. Finally, with the sun officially set and my gummy worms gone, I stood up and stretched, surveying the land below me like I was Mufasa. To Apollo's relief, we started our return hike. I was feeling good, confident, fearless. It grew darker in the pine forest around me and I plucked out my headlamp and carried on like a boss. Because I'm an independent woman and I'm not afraid of the dark. Maury Povich me dream. That was a lie. Turns out that I'm not afraid of the sort of dark, but the true dark. The dark dark. Yeah, that's scary as.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Danielle]

And. And the first time Apollo froze and looked off the trail into the dark woods like he saw something, was when I realized my metal was severely lacking and I had made a ridiculously stupid decision. The worst part about it was that I had this very irrational if I can't see it, it can't see me. Childlike response that made me not want to look to see what he was seeing. That's a Cassie move. Not to say you're childlike.

[Al]

No, I was thinking the exact same thing. It's like when I put earplugs in when I sleep at night when I'm camping, it's like if I can't hear it, it's not my problem.

[Danielle]

We're on opposite ends of the spectrum with that that however, I am neither a child nor irrational, though this jaunt through the woods might suggest otherwise. So I stopped, mustered up my courage, and scanned the woods where Apollo was looking. Nothing yet. He kept peering into the dark, seeing, smelling, and sensing something I clearly couldn't. Chaska does that all the time. And I know it's a dog thing, clearly, but there's. And usually it's not very alarming. Like, I don't. They don't feel disturbed by it or creeped out, but when they stop and sniff the air in a certain direction, a very specific direction, that indicates something's going on over there.

[Al]

Yeah, Tucker knows that, too.

[Danielle]

I can see with my nose, and there's something over there. It is.

[Al]

She does something. She does kind of the opposite.

[Cassie]

She's.

[Al]

I think she's still getting her courage outside. And, I mean, she thrives out there. But at nighttime, if Tucker isn't with her, when I let them out to go to the bathroom, she walks out the door barking to, like, scare anything off before she gets there.

[Danielle]

Smart. Yeah, that's really intelligent.

[Cassie]

Yeah.

[Al]

She does it. Not every time, but a lot of times when it's dark, she runs out barking, and then she, like, looks around and then goes to the bathroom.

[Danielle]

I always knew I liked her. Okay, so Paula was looking into the woods, sensing something she couldn't. Don't worry. That wasn't remotely unsettling. And it wasn't unsettling every single time he did it after that. Nope, not at all.

[Al]

Yeah, we believe you.

[Danielle]

At this point, I decided I needed to start making noise. So I had a whole conversation with Apollo for four miles. I talked, he listened. We bashed my ex. It was great. Right up. And that's therapy. Right up until Apollo abruptly halted, did an about face, and raced back to stand behind me. Lion hunter, indeed. Since I was now solely in charge of our safety, I picked my head up and scanned the woods. A glowing pair of eyes stared right back at me, no more than 20ft away. Then a second pair of eyes and a third. I grabbed my bear spray, waved my trekking poles, and told them all about my ex at an unreasonably high volume. They didn't move. They didn't blink. They just kept staring and staring. After a weirdly long standoff where I explained loudly to the eyes why my ex was bad in bed.

[Al]

I wish I was on the psych with you.

[Danielle]

Oh, my God, I wish I was nearby. Yeah, I want the tea.

[Al]

Same.

[Danielle]

The creatures remained eerily still. And then I realized the reason they hadn't moved was because they were circular reflectors that someone had put on fence posts in the middle of the woods. Why on earth a fence post in the middle of the woods had reflectors on it is beyond me. Me nerves on high alert, I let us pass the eyes, then stepped aside so Apollo could go first. He politely declined. So I scurried back to the car with my tail between my legs and my dog right behind me. And now Claire and new clarity on my ex. He was an the king of them, as we have already established. Even Apollo agreed with that. I would like to remind your readers that if you ever decide that you need to test your mettle after a bad breakup, consider signing up for a marathon or taking a kickbox walking or taking a kickboxing class. Don't go hiking in the woods alone at night. Seriously, what was I thinking? And find yourself a faithful pup to watch your back, even if they are only behind you because they are too scared to go first.

[Al]

You know, you say that you shouldn't do this, but it sounds like one, you got some clarity on the situation while you were out there and two, you got some much needed things said out into the air where no one else else could hear it.

[Danielle]

Yeah.

[Al]

So I kind of feel like maybe you should go.

[Danielle]

You can do that. You can also do a rage room.

[Al]

Rage rooms?

[Danielle]

Yeah. I've never done one, but I feel like they would be fun. I feel like I'm surprising myself by saying I have never done one because it feels therapeutic on multiple levels. But the problem is, my problem particularly is I get so angry so quickly. And then it fades quickly, fast, alight, quick to burn. So I would be furious scheduling an appointment to a rage room, but by the time I actually drove there, you'd be good. I don't even know if I need to do this.

[Al]

It's like I'm over it.

[Danielle]

Yeah, nothing matters, so who cares? That's the spirit. Great. Well, those are all the stories that we have for you today. Except, as always, another reminder. If you are a Patreon or Apple subscriber, you got two more coming at you. We get bonus stories we share one each for subscription platforms. And mine is titled Drugging Myself on Dramamine Fun.

[Al]

Mine is Signs from a Fur Baby.

[Danielle]

All right, well, if you want to hear those, we'll catch you on subscription platforms. If not, we'll catch you next week.

[Cassie]

Yeah. In the meantime, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye, guys. Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more NPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark.

[Danielle]

For more stories just like this one, with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple Subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.