After his second divorce, John Gottman decided to treat finding love like a research project. To collect enough data he went on 60 different dates that were all disasters, until one day at a Seattle coffee shop, when Julie Schwartz walked past his table. It was love at first sight.

The Gottmans have been married for 38 years and have spent decades as collaborators studying the psychology of love and relationships. In 1996, they co-founded the Gottman Institute, where they’ve interviewed thousands of couples and developed an evidence-based training program for therapists.

Given their decades of professional and personal success, you may be surprised to learn this about their relationship: “We're totally opposite people,” John tells Tim. While Julie is outdoorsy and adventurous, John is happiest relaxing indoors. But according to Julie, “We found a way to mesh our incompatibilities in one activity, which happens to be outside– kayaking.” It’s the perfect compromise since it’s outdoors, but also comfortably seated. Julie thinks the idea that happy couples are compatible from the beginning is a myth, and John says that as couples learn about each other and find compromises that make them both happy, “Couples create this compatibility.”

The Gottmans have given many interviews over their decades of work, but this conversation with Tim is distinct because they really get into the philosophies behind their work, the intentionality, the romance, and even the spirituality that allows them to be such pioneers in their field.

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Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman and Dr. John Gottman are clinical psychologists, researchers, and co-authors of the book “Fight Right: How Successful Couples Turn Conflict Into Connection.” You can learn more about their work on the Gottman Institute website, gottman.com.

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Our theme music was written by Andy Ogden and produced by Tim Lauer, Andy Ogden and Julian Raymond. All other music that you hear in this episode is courtesy of Epidemic Sound.

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