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Nephilim Death Squad
128: The Catcher in the Rye w/ William Ramsey
02:22:15
In this episode of Nephilim Death Squad, we explore the hidden layers of The Catcher in the Rye with special guest William Ramsey. More than just a coming-of-age novel, this book has been linked to infamous assassins like Mark David Chapman, John...
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- [00:00]
Top Lobster
Welcome to TopLobster.com, the ultimate middle finger to people who hate you anyway. Do you want to turn their mild annoyance into a full blown meltdown? We're not talking about polite little digs. I'm talking about offensive, off the page comments that scream, you can't censor me. You can't tell me what to say. I'd apologize, but I don't think you'd believe me. And frankly, I just don't care what you think. @toplobster.com we know one playing nice is overrated. We push all the buttons, we cross all the lines, we dot all the I's, and we live in that sweet spot where your style and your words hit like a sledgehammer on the head of your favorite politician. So why play it safe when you could blow it up entirely? If you're too retarded to stop and you're too real to worry about being liked by everybody, well, you just found your favorite website. Go to toplaza.com. grab a shirt, grab a hoodie, grab a sweater. That'll make your family members scream. Because if they hate you already, you might as well give them something spectacular. Complain about toplopster.com too. Stop. I dare you to wear it.
- [01:13]
William Ramsey
Productions we are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely.
- [01:41]
Top Lobster
Oh yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim.
- [01:44]
David Lee Corbo
It's like we all know what's going down, but no one's saying what happened to the home of the brave?
- [01:50]
William Ramsey
They control us now.
- [01:51]
David Lee Corbo
When no one's talking about how they made us want to be slaves and everybody's just walking around heading the clock. I want to wake up to a dead in the grave. But then it's too late. We need to be ready to raise up. Welcome to the end of day, everybody. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven, that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guest, I would like to remind all of our live viewers that this is a 30 minute preview only. Sometime around the 30 minute mark, we'll be going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash nephilim death squad, where you can continue listening along for free. You can either sign up for free or sign up for the $5 tier and enjoy seven days of free content before your charge. You could enjoy ad free viewing experiences, gaining early access to episodes before the general public, plus discount codes off of merchandise@toplopsa.com. all that and more awaits you on patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad today. Joining us once again is William Ramsey. For those of you who might not be familiar with the last episode, William, can you fill them in on where they can find your work and what it is that you focus on?
- [03:03]
William Ramsey
Yeah, I have a podcast titled William Ramsey Investigates. I would say I'm just kind of a newer version of investigative journalist, so I'm. My podcast is in the top point five percent in the world. I have five books that you can find on Amazon or my website, which is showing now. And then I have five documentaries on Crowley and Smiley Face Killers and Occult Hollywood on my Patreon, which you can just watch. It's $5 a month. You can watch those at your leisure if you're interested. But. Yeah, but I do a wide variety of different topics and subjects, so. Yeah, hard to pinpoint it.
- [03:44]
Top Lobster
I was scoping through your. Your feed recently. We did. We do a show with Clint Russell, and I was like, you know who probably has good information on this? William Ramsey. And I went and I looked. I was like, of course he's got good information. It was a. Something about the. The cartels and their. Their, you know, association with America and things like that, back to narcos. And I'm like, just scrolling through. It's like, there it is. It's like. It's like an encyclopedia of conspiracy.
- [04:09]
William Ramsey
If.
- [04:09]
Top Lobster
If I may.
- [04:10]
David Lee Corbo
An encyclopedia.
- [04:11]
William Ramsey
You can. You may.
- [04:12]
David Lee Corbo
Stuff that'll put you on a list.
- [04:14]
William Ramsey
Yeah, yeah. No question about it. But I think that it's kind of. I tried to make my content evergreen so that people like you can go back and look at it, whether I'm talking about Kubrick or Rosemary's Baby or the cartels or the West Memphis Three. So I think that they're still relevant and they're kind of little time stamps of my research at any given time.
- [04:38]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it's amazing how not only are they relevant, but some might even be more relevant today than they were when you probably recorded it. So definitely a good. It's a resource. If you're a conspiracy theorist, I would use your. Your podcast as, like, a major resource to figure out, like, a little road map of where we're going.
- [04:57]
William Ramsey
It's interesting you say that because even this topic that we're going to talk about today, the Catcher and Rye, has changed since I first started researching it, which was another time stamp of April 2024, where I had a dispute with a guy online about Catcher in the Rye and Mark David Chapman. And he had said, there's not that much of a relationship between Catcher and the Ryan him. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I went and did a show in 2024, Catchers in the Rye, where I kind of went in detail, which is kind of the basis of this presentation. But in that time frame, you had all these strange killed people, crooks in Butler, Pennsylvania. Ruth, a very strange person, very much out of the kind of same playbook as Mark David Chapman from Hawaii, literally a stone's throw from where Chapman supposedly, quote, worked, unquote. And traveling around the world with, like, suspicious, how are you getting all this money for airfare? So that's another guy. Ruth pops up. This is still current. Like, they're still talking about it. Like, what's going on with, like, Trump's trying to get information from the Secret Service. And then Mangioni, right, in New York City, this Mangioni who shot the healthcare CEO at 7. 00am in the morning. Like, how did he know how. Where he was at any given time? Which is a real question. But Mangioni is another interesting character with EL White. So I'm just kind of back bolstering what you just said. Like, some of these things take different permutations over time as more information or new things happen.
- [06:26]
Top Lobster
Don't tell me that Mangioni was reading this book.
- [06:31]
William Ramsey
Well, he. Mangioni was in New York City, and literally they found his belongings in Central Park. That ties in. It's a very strange tide. Like, if people don't know the narrative of Catcher and the Rye. It's about a young man named Holden Caulfield who gets kicked out of his fourth, you know, school, prep school. It's fake Pence. He's fake, doesn't exist, but he's going back to New York City to his family. And it's kind of like his adventures in New York City. Mangione's in New York City. The end of Catcher in the Ride takes place. And you'll see that on the COVID This one cover that I have, it's the carousel. And apparently Mangioni's belongings were found at the carousel in Central Park.
- [07:15]
David Lee Corbo
That's right. That's right. That's a strange. I don't like the word.
- [07:20]
William Ramsey
He's got all the indicators of somebody who went through a very severe, serious personality change. If you do the background of Mangione, he was like the head of his class at a prep school. So you see these weird overties and how we'll get into this. This is if you have. If you're not. If you're psychologically maybe a little frail today or something like, this is not the show for you, because we're gonna go into some places that are real and it's probably perfect. Like your intro, people being hypnotized. This is the theme of what we're gonna. What I'm gonna. And relate to you, which is these kind of overlapping things. And I've said on other shows, the real Rosetta stone for the 20th century is hypnotization. It really is. It's unbelievable. You wouldn't believe it, but so many events and so much TV and repetitive phrases and all these things people are being exposed to. Goes all the way back really, almost to like, the turn of the century with Rasputin used hypnot. Hypnotization. He knew how to go into deeper stage of consciousness that, you know, this. His involvement influenced the Romanov downfall and the foul of Nicholas ii. Like the. In kind of incompetence and like, frail, feeble response to a lot of things. So that whole, you know, the Russian Revolution was just bloody as all that good Hitler, new hypnotization, Hanssen and all these other magicians. And.
- [08:47]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, it's been brought to my attention that the. The. That Hitler had a real fascination with hypnotism. And. And I think Mangele was doing quite a bit of research in. In people with central heterochromia, which is this idea that there's a second ring of color within your eye. I don't know what he suspected of it. People suspect that it was something that the Gates program, that MK Ultra and that the Nazis were looking for, or that at least Mengele was looking for. I don't know too much about it. I just know that he allegedly was injecting dumps of. Of adrenaline into the eyes of his victims to see how the adrenaline played with. With that disposition of central heterochromia. But we just did an episode where, you know, we're talking all about Kubrick and. And certainly this, like, hypnotic aspect that so many people who are in that industry who look to Kubrick as the example then set out and try to accomplish themselves. And that is like telling a story behind the story and. And not telling it to the. The Conscious mind, but telling it to the unconscious mind, right?
- [10:03]
William Ramsey
Yeah. I mean, I think that that's kind of the potency and power of film, really, is that you're in a kind of a environment without external stimuli and somebody. Something's coming at you, and they can do some pretty incredible stuff. But Kubrick probably knew a lot about that. I'm sure he did. I know he did because he put it in his films.
- [10:25]
David Lee Corbo
So how do we want to start then, William? With this idea of Catcher in the Rye and how it seemingly connects all these events that are taking place in not only real time, but in our own history as a.
- [10:35]
Top Lobster
Can we. Can we start it like, what the book is? I know that I've read it, but I forgot everything in junior high school. So that alone is MK Ultra, right? It's like, given this shit in junior high school to read and then, like, nobody really could. Some people do remember it, but most people are like, I don't know, I cheated on it. I used some website to give me Cliff Notes.
- [10:55]
David Lee Corbo
And I don't remember it at all. None of it.
- [10:59]
William Ramsey
I remember it being there, but I remember reading it and going, I don't really understand. This is just kind of like a kid going through trouble. Like, I couldn't comprehend it. I did another rereading at my age 56, after no reading a lot about MK Ultra and a lot of this kind of secrets, you know, secret knowledge of the US Government. And it. This book is a shock to me as reading it as an adult, I'm in shock that it's even given to children. And the reason why it's there is another thing. It was Originally published in 1951. The author is J.D. salinger, who isn't intelligent like this. His history is all very well confirmed. He was an intel guy in the military in World War II. He was in one of the landings in Normandy. And his job once he got into France was to ferret out kind of intel officers. And so he was directly involved in kind of like, solving all these problems in France, right. Where the Nazis were and people were getting killed. So he actually ended up in a mental institution. And they called it back then, they didn't call it ptsd. They called it shell shock or, like something military shock. He was involved in the Battle of the Bulge, if you remember that. So Salinger is writing it, apparently. I was told that he had parts of this book when he was in World War II. And then this gets published in 1951. And this is really the beginnings of the Cold War. Right. So this is a time when it's this, this publication takes place and since it's been published, this book has sold, this is confirmed 60 million copies worldwide. So it's, it's a, an incredible peak of literature and a lot of people view this as. Holden Caulfield is almost kind of like an anti hero. Like he's a, he's a somebody to be emulated. Like he's, you can identify with him. And that's the way it's sold. Is this alienated young 16 year old kid.
- [12:56]
David Lee Corbo
Has this book been banned from public schools? I think that was.
- [13:00]
William Ramsey
Yes, there was a dispute when it was first published that it shouldn't be in the school. So there was kind of like a moral outrage and it's justified because there's ever. Almost every kind of dirty theme is involved in this book. In the language of the 50s. So like today's, I mean today now with what's going on this, this book is. Pales in comparison to like what's going on today. But back at that time this was like very. There's like pedophilia, the professors hitting on him. But holding Caulfield. A call. For people who don't know call C A U L is usually when a baby is birthed, if there's a call, it's like a piece of the placenta over the face. It was considered a sign of a blessing and that the child would be either special or have second sight or something like that. So that's the use of the name. And I think all of the names that are used in the book are for reference. They're not mistake, they're not like random names. So holding Caulfield. Hold on to your call. And the field references the Catcher and the Rye, right. So the rye is the rye field. So there's a very deep attachment psychologically between the character and this concept that goes through the book. This notion of the rye, which is actually a misreading of Robert Burns. He's a famous UK or British actually I think he's Scottish poet. And it's a misreading of I think going through the rye. So what you see about Holden is that he's misinterpreting things outside and there's a very profound psychological things going on with him. He ends up in a mental institution. By the way, the last chapter 26 is him in a mental institution with his brother. I don't know where his sister is, Phoebe, or his parents. So we never kind of, we kind of see his mother, but his dad is kind of a distant figure. It's almost kind of like the Disney movies where the dad isn't even involved in anything, you know, with the. With the kids. Like, so there's no parental thing. And the mother comes and goes. She's seen as kind of a nervous Nelly. But his sister is really kind of his idea. He really loves his sister. And there's a very disturbing kind of, well, to me disturbing things about his sister, who's 10. And he like touches her inappropriately. They dance together. Kind of like somebody who's more romantic than a sister, like four dances together. So this is at the end of the book. And then she wants to run away with him. So that's kind of basically, it's kind of a. They call it a buildings Roman as kind of like the literary term of a coming of age book. So there's an element to that in this or a suggestion that it is a coming of age. Even though he's not really, you know, it's not over time, it's just takes place over three or four days. But the reference to David Copperfield, which is Dickens, really is a buildings Roman. It starts out at the beginning. So Holden is actually very smart. He. He aces his. His English classes but fails everything else. And he's kind of a bungler too. Like he was supposed to go, I think it was the, oh, Lacrosse club. Like he left his. All of the material for his sports team and that, and he forgot it somewhere. So he like, that's how it starts off. And then he's getting kicked out of school. But there's very like strange things that. Repetitive statements which we'll see kind of later with some of these MK Ultra assassins do the same thing that he's doing in this book. So he repeats phrases over and over in the very beginning of the book. You will, you will, you will. He also wears this red hat which we'll see in the slides, which I think at first glance is just a standard kind of weird hat. But he calls it the human hunting hat. And he puts it on. So he like walks around with this human hunting hat and he, he does. One of the famous lines of the book is, where do the ducks go in Central Park? He doesn't know. He doesn't understand that when the winter comes, the ducks will fly south, right? To go something. He, He's. He really is asking people through the book so you'll see this kind of visualization in this. He's also in the care of a psychoanalyst, which is kind of Timely, I guess, for that time. Maybe it was more rare back then. But he does things without acknowledging it. So he. And you'll see the nar. There's very kind of clever literary things where he has post past tense. He. That the author's mixing tenses of present and past very casually. And he also. Holden. Does things. He doesn't know what he's doing. So, like, he does violent things. Breaks windows. I didn't know what I was doing. They repeat this word, madman. He thinks of himself as a madman. Like, I think it's probably 20 times in the book. So it's this suggestion that he isn't well and he's not well. Like, this is not like a guy going through problems. This is a guy who is, I think, the world. The real word would be schizophrenic. He doesn't attach to the external world like other people do. So he's operating.
- [18:09]
David Lee Corbo
Supposed to be in this. In this book. Pardon me. How old is he in this?
- [18:12]
William Ramsey
16.
- [18:13]
David Lee Corbo
16.
- [18:15]
William Ramsey
He depersonalizes everybody else. So he's very negative. So he. Everybody's a phony. And all this other stuff. Like, they're all. Everything's fake. And I guess at the. At a cursory topical reading, that's kind of, okay, cool. That's the way people feel about humanity or whatever at that age. But it's something more profound where he's like, these are just other people. These are not like, you know, I don't. He doesn't assess their personality as real beings. And he kind of like passes through these different phases. It's very strange. There are words like split brain, trance in this book. Like, this is how sophisticated these kids are being exposed to these ideas. And you'll see this trance concept in Chapman, for sure, and Hinckley, that they're both. Something's going on that isn't. These people are not in present tense. Hinckley's not like. I mean, enchantment too. And that's kind of like how this book. And it. It just goes on. The book is full of perversions. So, like the kids going through this whole thing for three days. But he sees transvestites, gays, pedophilia. His. His Antolini is trying to hit on him. Puts his hand on his head while he's sleeping on the couch. And he says that he's done. This has happened to him 20 times, 10 or 20 times. These kind of uncomfortable things. Which it's. It's very weird, too, because he gets himself into the circumstance. Like Instead of, like, avoiding the pedo teacher, he, like, calls him up and says, I'm coming over to talk. And the. The teacher is like, holden, you're a very, very strange boy. And Holden goes, I know. So these, like, if you're identifying with Holden, these con. And it does, like, there's a very strange thing at the very last chapter where he goes back and breaks the fourth wall. So he starts talking to the reader and he says, I don't know why I'm telling this to you, but I am. Because I think in the mental institution, I don't know why I'm telling this to you, but I am. I don't know what it means. He doesn't. He doesn't derive meaning from his experiences, whether good or bad. So, like, if you and I have a good experience, oh, that was a lot of fun. Or a bad experience, I don't want to do that again. I don't want to get stuck in New York for three days and sleep on benches. He doesn't. He doesn't have these things. But anyway, so he's. He is. There's sadism, masochism. He's crazy, he's suicidal. It's just. And this thing. I swear to God, I'm a madman. He's also anti Christian. So it. There's an element here of. That you have to remember this is the 50s, this is post World War II, where it's very cons, by today's standards, extremely conservative. There's no women's rights or anything Christian. Still a Christian white country. He says his sympathies when he reads the Bible, it's not with Christ. He thinks the apostles are fake. Right? He thinks there's something fake about them. But he also identifies with Legion. So if you remember the. The part of the Bible where Christ is in the wilderness and there's a guy who cannot be restrained. He's crazy. He has these demons in Christ. He's talking to the demons. He says, you can go out. Let us go out. We are legion. And Christ exercises these demons into a herd of. Of pigs, and the pigs run and drown themselves. That's who Holden Caulfield identifies. So this whole notion, a lot of these analysts, a lot of these literary critics, they pass over a lot of these elements in their criticism. Because I've read them now, like I've been reading them. They're like, oh, Holden's just a cute disinfected kid. No, there's something else really much more profound, especially with these psychological states that in there, that are in there.
- [22:14]
David Lee Corbo
It almost seems like you would diagnose him as schizophrenic if you were to take like a modern day medical industry angle at it. This book is being aimed. I was reading it predominantly high school right as early as ninth grade. So 14 years old is, is the age of a ninth grader. And I, I wonder then if is there a sort of a moral reckoning that the character goes through? Because I, I don't know, it's hard to remember how I was at 14 and whether or not I should have been exposed to these themes.
- [22:47]
William Ramsey
And that's what I'm saying at the end.
- [22:49]
David Lee Corbo
It was a moral wrap up.
- [22:50]
William Ramsey
He. There isn't. He breaks the, at the end of the book there's a very short chapter where he's in the mental institution. He says, I don't, he, he breaks the fourth wall. He's now talking to the person who's read the book and been inside his head, his screwed up, jumbled head. And he goes, I don't know why I'm telling you this and I don't even know what this means. So there's no, you know, like at the end of a good, like a Hallmark card, you know, movie or something, there's a wrap up where everything comes together and all the conflicts resolved and everybody goes, this was, this is a nihilistic book. It doesn't have that.
- [23:31]
David Lee Corbo
So what about it is so profound that they've seen fit to. Because everybody's familiar with this book, peripherally or otherwise, because they were made to read it in school. Where, where then is the value within this? It's like when you look at Lord of the Flies, which is a big one or you know, you kind of look at that and it's like a deep sea study into the nature of, of human beings. And that you could even see it emulated in children. If you isolate them and put them in a. In charge of one another, there is something to be gleamed some insight. What, what then is there for the Catcher in the Rye for students to.
- [24:07]
William Ramsey
Gleam that they're being subjected to cultural creation, a cultural influence that's not positive, that this is not a kind of like a book that somebody would read to have a positive outcome. So it's something to me, especially when you look at all of these, these death, these assassins who are associated with this. This to me is a kind of plant. And I've kind of, I've done some work on the CIA and like, where does this book really come from? How does a book with this many sophisticated psychological traits in it get created, written and put out to the public. Where 60 million books have been sold like that is a mystery. Because if you really read this with a critical eye like I've, I've tried to do, it's. It's not, shouldn't be in the. I can see why people didn't want it in the hands of children because it's, it doesn't have an outcome. Like I had a crazy period and then at the end I was healed and I became, you know, I became a boarding a Christian or I joined a monastery and you know, everything was resolved. It's not resolved. He goes through all these. He's going to commit suicide. He has a human hunting hat. I could just shoot somebody. He's a chain smoker, he's a pyromaniac.
- [25:22]
David Lee Corbo
Would you say that the character throughout the book, that would, he would his traits resonate with other 16 year old boys?
- [25:32]
William Ramsey
Yeah, but not in a good way. Like that's what that's. I think so.
- [25:35]
David Lee Corbo
It's like so, so they would make you emphasize or empathize rather with this character and, and you would see yourself in them to some degree. And then when you get to the moment where you would then get some answers. Well, how, how does this character go about dealing with the things that also plague me? Well, there is no conflict resolution. It's just.
- [25:56]
William Ramsey
Exactly.
- [25:56]
David Lee Corbo
Doesn't this suck?
- [25:58]
William Ramsey
Yes, when I say nihilism, I mean it. He also is a liar. He lies all the time. He says he can lie to people for hours. He runs into the mother of one of his schoolmates on the train and just baloney's her uses a fake name, tells these fake stories about him, how great her son is. Like he's just completely baloneying her and laughing about it in his internal dialogue. So I would say that's not a positive character trait. He's also says he's a sex maniac, but he's actually sexually frustrated. So they create a character who is not. He doesn't have any redeeming. There's nothing redeeming qualities about him. So he's not an athlete, he's not a thespian, he's not an intellectual successful academic. These are all things that aren't there.
- [26:45]
David Lee Corbo
It's just then that these books would be or this book would sell as many copies because that, that sort of storytelling doesn't resonate with the average person. It leaves them frustrated and without a conclusion. And people like typically and I don't know for better or worse. But to have a concise wrap up is to put an end on it. To put a bow on it is what people want. And you can kind of tell right on its face that that is the nature of this book. Because of what you've said, how many killers this book resonates with. Because you can kind of see that train of thought, right? You go, look at this guy. He's just like me. And what does he do about it? Nothing. It's all nihilism. There's nothing good in the end. There's no wrap up, there's no morality. So it. What am I doing here? Why don't I go and just do this thing that I've been planning to do, you know what I mean? And you could see how that character resonates. But for the, for the population at large, I don't think people really like that or else we would get more of that from Hollywood.
- [27:42]
William Ramsey
It gets really disturbing. There's a disturbing aspect to it. The red and his sister. And the fact that the last chapter does not have his sister and does not have his dad is very odd. Like, I'm not saying you could read in that he did something bad to his sister, but she's not there. She's not mentioned, just the brother. So what's going on? Like, he's supposedly. You can read into a lot of weird stuff in there. So that lack of resolution and the lack of things with his sister, this kind of like weird thing. So. And like you said, the lack of resolution. So his sex life, he doesn't have. He's not like a. He's like somebody who lives through other people's romantic life. So he's living through Strat later, this other character he knows and this girl that he's obsessed with, who he never calls. So he has this kind of like infatuation with somebody that he will never relate to. Then he goes to this, this hotel and the, the bellman in the, in the elevator who's, I think Manuel, hooks him up with a prostitute. And so the prostitute comes for $5. But he doesn't, he, he, he doesn't complete the act, but he says he's a sex maniac. So you can see this kind of internal tension within the character itself. So he's not like, he's not successful, you know, with the other sex. So he's like.
- [29:08]
David Lee Corbo
I'm sorry to interrupt, but this is, this is fascinating. From arcane arsenals, he says, seems like the sales went to schools, like Mac computers. And if that is truly the answer there on how a book that doesn't seem to resonate with the average person gets to 60 million sales is because the public school system is buying it in droves and indoctrinating children with it.
- [29:27]
Top Lobster
Well, this is like CNN and airports, right? Or Disney plus subscriptions with the USAID. That's 700,000 of them that are just paid for by taxpayer funds for whatever reason to make Buzz Lightyear gay or something like that.
- [29:43]
William Ramsey
And it's interesting because this, in this book are these ideas. This guy Loose, he runs into Loose at the, at a bar. Loose kind of is a direct reference to the Loose family who ran Time magazine, right? So Henry Loose and his wife, they have an interesting story themselves. But Time Life eventually bought the Zapruder film, right, and hid it from the public. But this is 1951. Loose is a kind of sexologist. Holden knows, like he likes Loose because Loose is super knowledgeable about sex. So he's asking him questions and Loose is giving him information. But one of the things Loose says is like half of married men are gay. And that's another thing that came out of the Rockefeller supported Kinsey Institute was this whole notion that heterosexual men or it's much more normal to have gay relationships. That was the push. It's fake. All of Kinsey's research cannot be duplicated. But you see that suggestion within this book. So it's like this book, something sinisters here. And I think that these guys have, have keyed into it Hinckley and whatever through it. If not we can get there through hypnosis. You can see why somebody would use this to influence somebody's mind like in, in a deeper way. And the, the twist of this at the very end where he breaks the fourth wall and talks to you, it's like you've been in his mind. So it's very powerful. So in other narratives of book narratives, you're clearly in like looking down at these characters interplay, War and Peace and you know, all these sophisticated or complex interrelations between, between adults and children and you know, political acts. But this is different. You're in his brain and then he's talking to you. So it's much more intimate. But this isn't, this isn't an internal dialogue like Prost or something that's positive. This is like a scramble brained guy. And you can hear when he's talking to his sister, he's having a conversation and then for three paragraphs he's talking about his, he's thinking about his buddies back then so he's not even in the present tense with his do with his sister. You have to read this. It's totally crazy. If you, if people have like understand kind of mental states and kind of like how schismo Genesis or like how people can be messed with in cults like this. This book will find. You'll find it very disturbing. Like it's, it's really often charts suicidal. Yeah.
- [32:20]
Top Lobster
Really.
- [32:21]
William Ramsey
Oh, he's fascinated and scared by blood. You know, he uses this word, get the ax, chew the fat. So these kind of very powerful. Once a rat, always a rat. I have a brain tumor. He's. What is it when you think you're old? He's a hypochondriac. Like there's nothing you go through. Find a redeeming quality. Like maybe to some to like the anti people. This guy's great because he's always like in a terrible state and he has, he has weird responses to things. Things that make him depressed and happy. They're not the con. The standard things that make me like a nice meal or time with friends or watching a movie or sports game. He gets depressed by certain. When he sees cheap luggage he gets really depressed. Like because he's rich, he goes to Brooks Brothers, he's well dressed, he has tons of money. He doesn't seem to hurt for money until the very end. But he gets depressed by other people's cheap luggage. Which also brings to mind kind of this character of American Psycho where he's totally obsessed with external, you know, trappings of status or whatever his, his clothing and his wear and his.
- [33:34]
David Lee Corbo
And that's business card true in, in what we see where it's like a lot of the time these people that are committing atrocious acts come from well to do backgrounds. You know, they have money, you know, it's. It's what's given rise to this idea that if you have it all and you raise a child, something about that child is unfulfilled and it turns to, you know, some psychopathic tendencies. I have a really important question that I. I got to get off my chest which is what the hell does it mean to be a Catcher in the Rye? But before we answer that, I'd like everybody that is watching to know that we are cutting the stream to YouTube rumble and elsewhere and we're going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash nephilimdeath squad. But fear not, you can continue watching along enjoying an ad free viewing experience audience and gaining access to the episode before anybody else. And you could do so for free. You can sign up for the free tier or you can sign up for the five dollar tier and get a seven day free preview of our content before billing begins. So otherwise give it a couple days. The episode will drop for free in its entirety everywhere else. All right, bye guys. So. So, William, what. What in the hell is A Catcher in the Rye?
- [34:53]
William Ramsey
So it's based, like I mentioned earlier, Robert Burns did a. Had a poem, right. That the sister knows very well. Phoebe knows very well. And it's called A Something in the Rye. I can't remember the name of it offhand, but it's, it's that the Catcher in the Rye is Holden's misreading. This is another example of how he, he misinterprets reality. But it's a misreading of this Robert Burns poem that goes. If a body catch a body coming through the rye, and it's kind of like a erotic store, well, it might be involved rape, but it's about a man and a woman in the rye. And it's supposedly an old Gaelic or Scottish. And he interprets it as a catcher. And there's a very famous sequence at the very end which you can go through in the, the slides, where he envisions himself. This is kind of like the weird thing about his attachment to children. He envisions himself as a guy who's going to be in the rye helping kids who are running towards a cliff and saving them from going over the cliff. So he will be the catcher in the rye. But it also has kind of a, a darker element to it. When you kind of see like this, this human hunting hat that was in some of the book covers. This is darker. Catcher is also a Sith. So you see the sickle and the hammer of, of communism. That Sith goes through the rye and cuts it off. So there's, there is a kind of a subtextual aspect of violence to the title of the book itself is almost.
- [36:31]
Top Lobster
Like a Jesus complex as well. Like he feels like he's the one to save these kids, but you can't really even get your own thoughts together.
- [36:39]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [36:40]
William Ramsey
Right. No, it, it is interesting and there's a very interesting statement at the very end that's by his guy Antolini, who is his, his kind of guy who's trying to hit on him. He says something to him, like there's something about you that says you'll die. You'll have a death that is not good for something. A valiant cause or something. Something like it's really weird. Like, these are really weird statements in here. It's not. The more I read it, the more I think the narrative is fake. It's just the narrative is there to get the. To import these concepts into the reader.
- [37:20]
David Lee Corbo
That's a fantastic way to put it, William, because that is what. You know, when we're talking about cubic films in this last episode that we did, it's seems that. And very many directors have sought to emulate Kubrick's work in their own films. And, you know, those things are still coming out today. I think two great examples are Kim Kardashian's Santa Baby video and also the film on Netflix, White Noise, starring Adam Driver. Now, these things seek to tell you a message subliminally, but the foreground, the actual content that is the delivery vehicle for this message is, like, kind of nonsensical. It's not really like, say, I mean, not. Not necessarily the case with the Shining or Cubic films, but certainly the case with the. The film White Noise, which I think even the title is meant to tell you, like, hey, this is White Noise. It's really what's going on in the background that you should be paying attention to. And the same thing with Kim Kardashian, Santa Baby. On its surface, it. It doesn't even make any sense. She's just crawling through a hotel party, but all the symbols in the background are telling a different story. So is that what you're saying here, William? That even the book the Catcher in the Rye? Because it's like I can just, based off of what you're saying, detect that there's no cohesion. There's no, like, you know, a logical through line through this book. It seems like a lot of it would leave you confused.
- [38:47]
Top Lobster
I think one of the. One of the most alarming things you're saying about this is that I've definitely read this book, and I don't remember a word of it.
- [38:55]
William Ramsey
Yeah, no, it's very odd. It's like he's bouncing around. So, like, the psychological state, he gets on the phone and just calls somebody. So he calls Loose. Then he calls Antolini. Then he calls this guy and just goes and says that. And then, you know, has his own kind of internal narrative going on. It is really an odd book. I'm trying to find the quote where the guy Antolini says about, like, he's gonna. He's doomed for, like, a great act of violence. But he says, this is Antolini. You are a very, very strange boy. Holden Caulfield. Response. I know it. I said so. Like, he's aware that he, like, this isn't like a character. If you read this, you'll be like, this is. This isn't like amazing. There's all kinds of psych, psychoanalysts analysis in this too.
- [39:46]
David Lee Corbo
Does he, does he then go on to take part in a great act of violence?
- [39:51]
William Ramsey
Well, that's what's what I'm saying. At the very end, his sister's no longer in the picture and he's been walking around having violent thoughts. So I think that there's. There's no overt statement that something went wrong, but it's like, did something go wrong? Like, he's clearly in a mental institution. Institution. He's like a, you know, it's a long wing and stuff like that. So there might be. You can deduce that maybe something really did go wrong. Right. Because the parents aren't there and the sister isn't.
- [40:26]
David Lee Corbo
How does this plug into hypnotism?
- [40:30]
William Ramsey
Well, we'll see that. I mean, I think if you get to the slides. If we get to the slides, we can go through. And this is like the standard book cover, right? So Catcher in the Rye, red with the yellow. 60 million copies sold worldwide. If you go to the next one, I think I can probably do it. This is the COVID So this is referencing the red Central park and the carousel. Right. Where he's happiest to see Phoebe, who just kills him. He always says this, she kills me. Like, it's a very strange word that they use like, instead of like, I just think she's the cutest kid in the world. Or like, her dimples make me happy. Or, you know, something like that. Instead, it's like, Phoebe's killing me. She just kills me. It's so strange. Like, the word usage is way too sophisticated. Like, Salinger may have been just a total genius. The other thing about Salinger is that he became a shut and he became a recluse and never achieved something like this ever again. So he had Franny and Zoe, I think was another one, and some short stories.
- [41:35]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. Did, did any of his previous works have this same impact? Because no. If not, this would seem like a departure then from his previous works. And then the, the question is, how did he learn to write this way or what inspired him to write this way where he wasn't doing that before?
- [41:50]
William Ramsey
Yeah, 32. And he had had, like, this is well known, you can see it online. He had, he was. When he was in his 30s, he had a kind of A religion relationship with a 14 year old girl. And she talks about it. And for a long term, like years, like very long term. So that's a bit disturbing too.
- [42:10]
Top Lobster
And.
- [42:11]
David Lee Corbo
And then he's going in and he's writing this thing that. I mean, so in that way we are, we are gearing the works of a pedophile towards the American children in the. In the public education system. System.
- [42:25]
William Ramsey
I think, I think to a certain extent, yes, I think that's correct. And there's certain things about this relationship between. Like I've done a lot of shows on human trafficking, pedophilia and all these other things. A lot of pedophiles, in their mind, they're not harming the kids. Like there's no harm to them. And also kids are old enough, they're always of consent. Like they're old enough to process. Like they're mature enough. Right. That's like the pedophile's excuse. And then you read this book and it's like, Phoebe's smarter than Holden. She knows Robert Burns. She can quote the poem. How does a kid know that? She dances like an adult with him. She responds to him like an adult. They're almost in the kind of odd relationship because he's saying, I'm leaving, I'm gonna go west. And she packs up her luggage to go with him like an adult. Like what 10 year old kid would leave their parents. Parents to go? Like that doesn't. But the way that it's played out in the narrative to me is. Has a real quasi pedo. Like there's no. He pinches her. Her derriere. He pinches her butt too, like at one point. Which, you know, maybe in those days isn't that bad, but it just seems.
- [43:34]
David Lee Corbo
Like if there was a, A horror element to this storytelling that this would be akin to like a Stephen King situation. Because Stephen King also does that. Right. Where it's like famously in. It didn't make the cut in the films, but he's depicting a. Basically an orgy involving children and in what.
- [43:55]
William Ramsey
In what movie?
- [43:55]
Top Lobster
Oh yeah, in the book. In the book it. In the second book at the end. No, as a matter of fact, it's the first book. This is in the first book. I'm sorry. Yeah. When they're children, they. To defeat the clown.
- [44:07]
William Ramsey
It.
- [44:08]
Top Lobster
Pennywise. They have.
- [44:10]
David Lee Corbo
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- [44:56]
William Ramsey
Nephilim.
- [44:57]
David Lee Corbo
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- [45:06]
Top Lobster
I forget. I think her name is Sarah. They all have, like. They basically do it. Run a train on her. All the. The boys. This group of boys.
- [45:12]
William Ramsey
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:13]
Top Lobster
And it's like. I don't know what he's trying to say. Like, he. He tried to say that it's like to remove, like, oh, they had to remove their innocence in order to battle this clown. And it goes away for some time and then the second book picks up where they're adults and they have to fight it again. But something interesting about that book, it as well. And the book the Stand and Needful Things and Storm of the Century from Stephen King. All these books also reference the entity Legion, specifically Pennywise. Yeah, Pennywise.
- [45:45]
William Ramsey
That's in this book too.
- [45:48]
Top Lobster
That's why I'm. I'm thinking about it. So you have these ideas of pedophilia. This is the idea of Legion. And obviously Stephen King has gleamed a lot from the Catcher and the Ride because those themes come up and then I'm sure we'll get to the Shining, which is like a. That's a Stephen King book, but a Kubrick film that really points right at this book as well.
- [46:08]
William Ramsey
Wow, that's amazing. I. So this. This book is per. Permeated our culture in ways that we may not fully understand. It's very strange. This is another one. This is like when he, like at the end, Mr. Andolini tries to hit on Holden. It's like the elevator was finally there. I got in and went down. Boy, I was shaking like a madman. So there's the madman again. I was sweating too. When something perverty like this happens, I start sweating like a bastard. That kind of stuff's happened to me about 20 times since I was a kid. I can't stand it.
- [46:42]
David Lee Corbo
So there's these elements across both these books. It and Then this one where it's like there's something about childhood, there's something about the. There's. There's like a. I don't want to say a magic associated with it, but there's an age that, you know, a child becomes where, like, I don't know, it's almost like reality and your own mind become a little bit more malleable. Or, or maybe it's like your consciousness has reached such a level where your logical mind is kicking in so you can sort of analyze maybe what's been happening to you probably your entire life as a child. Because they say, like, children are on the edge of sort of that, that spiritual realm still where they can kind of perceive things. And I think that these occultists, same ones who are writing these books and developing these films in Hollywood, they're, They're depicting that in, in a very strange way. I don't know what it is. It's. It's. The psyche of a developing child is full of holes. It's like riddled with, with inconsistencies and, and, I don't know, they perceive things in a very strange way. And I think it is like this, some people would say, like, yeah, you can still sort of see these things, like magic is real when you're a child. And, and that element, I think, is what these authors are, are playing off of. But I don't think it's just playing off of. And I think that's clear because this thing ends up going into MK ULTRA and hypnosis and all these other things. So there's something there we're not aware of. But they are.
- [48:11]
William Ramsey
Yes, I think so. I think that this is really the time this book came out. At the time MK Ultra was 53. Right. So Dolas had this kind of famous speech called Brain Warfare. And then a week later, MK Ultra 53. But before that, there was a guy at the head of this whole process of kind of mind control. His name was Morse Allen. He was working, you know, after oss. So this, and then also Blackbird and Artichoke are taking place before MKUltra gets started. So this book suddenly pops out right around that time. It's very eerie. And they're thought, they're, they're involved in the culture, the 50s and the cold War and all this stuff is real. And these guys are all cold warriors. They are all post World War II guys. They're fighting whatever. And they're also in. Interested in these Manchurian candidates. That's where the word comes from is Manchuko or North Korea or whatever. So this book comes out at that time. It's very odd. It's just very. And then there's more research to be done, but just. They like these themes that use. I would never have keyed into the Stephen King stuff, but.
- [49:20]
David Lee Corbo
Well, it's interesting too because in. In elementary school, one of the things that's really fascinating in the conspiracy community is the Gates program, right. The gifted and talented program. And allegedly, you know, its nature is still out, I guess, as far as the verdict. But a lot of people speculate that it was a selection process for children with psychic abilities. And so, I mean, whatever the hell public schooling is, you know, on the surface it's one thing, but it seeks to indoctrinate through things like Catcher in the Rye. But it also. And of course just sort of the idea that it arised out of the Industrial revolution to make good factory workers. Right. Which is where they got the bell system and things like that. So that you would be effective on a production line when you were older. But then to have also this element where there's. There's organizations coming in and conducting selection processes on. On young children to see whether or not they have some sort of innate ability. I don't know what it is. We're giving our children up to a system that picks and chooses them like, I don't know, cattle on a production line for the most promising ones. And these are some of the tools they're using to do that.
- [50:43]
William Ramsey
Yeah, there's selection processes out there for. Also you make an interesting thing like the kids when you're growing up. It's interesting there's not too many older kind of MK Ultra people because of just the way that the human mind works, which you're taking in information as an adult as you get to adulthood. And then in adulthood you're kind of processing what you've learned or re. Reformatting. But you're much more suggestible as a teenager. It's just the way it is because you're learning. You're trying to adapt to the external stimuli and learn and try to figure stuff out. So a lot of these guys who are. You'll see in this are all about 23, 24, strangely. Sirhan Sirhan, Tinkley, Oswald Chapman, all around the same age. Mangioni. So I think that something profound is happening, at least to the controller. So the people who aren't the world controllers or people who are, you know, running stuff, they had looking at humanity as kind of a petri dish or a pool of Talent for people to use. Like people they'll bring in. And you'll see that amongst the elite, like the Rockefellers are fine guys like John McClone or was it McClure who, who was a family friend, but they brought him in and groomed him and he was basically kind of like one of their go to guys for a lot of their policies, stuff like that. But you know, I think there's mentioning.
- [52:12]
David Lee Corbo
Too that schizophrenia develops between 15 and 25 in men. And this, you know, I'm just looking for this connection because this is obviously a psychological operation. These people, Manchurian candidates, like you mentioned before, or, or whatever process they're going through. Luigi is a normal functioning dude.
- [52:33]
William Ramsey
High function, super high functioning, I would say.
- [52:36]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah, high functioning dude up until a certain age. And then all of a sudden by 25, 26, they managed to break him or something. Manages to break him entirely. And he's. And he's now displaying a totally different behavioral set. You know, Very strange that. That.
- [52:52]
William Ramsey
Super suspicious.
- [52:53]
David Lee Corbo
Yes, very suspicious.
- [52:54]
William Ramsey
Here's Andolini talking to Holden again. He said, this fall, I think you're writing for. It's a special kind of fall, a horrible kind. The man falling isn't permitted to feel or hear himself hit the bottom. He just keeps falling and falling. Like these are the suggestions that are in this book. Like it permeates the whole book of these like psychological states that can't be remedied and things like that. I mean. And then this is the guy who's going to try to, you know, pedophile from player.
- [53:30]
David Lee Corbo
Well, why don't we get into some of these slides so we can see how this thing tracks.
- [53:35]
William Ramsey
Let's do it. So this is a cover of the book. This is the original cover. Now at first glance it just looks probably benign, but if you read the book, you know, he's a chain smoker. You know, that's a murder hat. That's the human hunting hat that he's wearing. Red. Just like the COVID right? Just like the carousel. So you see the thematic blood and murder associated with color. And then the ducks, where he's just. He's not. He's schizophrenic. He doesn't understand why where the ducks go. Right. He keeps. That's a key component of this whole thing. And in addition to the Catcher and the Rye, it's the component where he's. He can't ascertain reality. Like, people know the ducks fly south for the winter when they're eight. Right. And this is kind of like it's interesting. The quote at the bottom mentions David Copperfield. So that's the dicket Dickens book. So they're telling the reader who may know Dickens that this is kind of like his coming of age story. And it kind of becomes your coming of age because you're with him in his brain. And then at the end he says, I don't know why I'm telling you this. So you've kind of been along with him. So if you can go to the next one.
- [54:48]
David Lee Corbo
You know what's funny too? You talk about coming of age and you're coming of age too. If, if schizophrenia truly does develop between the ages of 15 and 25, then they're right at the beginning of that transitional period giving you this in public schools.
- [55:02]
Top Lobster
Yeah, super nefarious.
- [55:04]
William Ramsey
It gets like that's the whole thing is like it didn't, it didn't expose itself to me. But through further analysis and reading it's like, wow, this is really dark. It's really like a, like a really dark book for these young kids. They shouldn't be exposed to this. They used to have like, like the Romans would give Pliny's lives like famous people or George Washington. Like something happened after World War II where like the US empire slid through culture like this negative culture creation and all the stuff people who to CIA what started and 47. So it's not outside of the realm of possibility that this was a socially engineered and we can do a full show on CIA, Hollywood connections. There's so many up to the present. But there were a lot back in the 50s. There was this guy, his name was Tracy Barnes. He's kind of like a lower level apparatchik at the CIA. But he was involved in getting Orwell's Animal Farm made and, and distributed through Hollywood. But he was kind of the secret lever puller to get that. So it was kind of an anti communist, you know, tract.
- [56:12]
David Lee Corbo
A lot of people speculate that after World War II, during Operation Paperclip that some of the Nazis that we would have scooped up would have been those from the propaganda wing of the Nazi regime because they were so masterful at it. And then it's seemingly right on cue. Right. A lot of these programs start right after that. Do you think there's a correlation there?
- [56:32]
William Ramsey
I think so. I think a lot of those Nazis knew that stuff. If you look back, if you remember there was the burning of the Reichstag. That was kind of what brought Hitler to power. I think that was 33. It's a huge event. Right. They blamed it on the communist and they brought out this guy Vanderlub. And everybody says he's either or he's in a trance or he's not responding. Right. But some people have looked at that guy and very smart guys, guys, doctors here and they like somebody did a mind control job on that dude. So the Nazis knew that in the 30s and a lot of the stuff, a lot of the earlier writers. I'm just putting this in a time frame. Esther Brooks is writing his books on hypnotism in the 30s as well. And he's really the core. And you'll see him. I don't know how McGowan keyed into this and programmed to kill. But he starts out with the thing on Esther Brooks. Like he knew that this is the right guy to start with. You don't start with MK Alter in 53. You start with Esther Brooks in the 30s where they're talking about split brain and couriers. And Esther Brooks had this famous like warning. He said people need to. Hypnotism is so dangerous that they have to either ban it or control it because it can change world history. He was right.
- [57:50]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. Now it seems they've incorporated it into the propaganda machine. I would imagine that there's not a successful show for children or otherwise that doesn't have an element of hypnotism in it. Right. We talked about on this show how there's like a 8 second frame switch for children's entertainment. Yeah, it's actually really short now.
- [58:08]
William Ramsey
I mean they say for p. You know that like hypnotism or you and a Cameron or whatever, you put people into like a place where it's, you know, you're isolated and you know, you're not supposed to have outside interview. And then you put them in stimulation. And I encourage you and your listeners if you live in a suburban area, just go for a walk at night at about 8:30 and walk just. You don't have to like be a. Just stay on the sidewalk. But just watch everybody's blinking lights in their rooms and go back through. You know, if you have a kind of paranoia brain like me, you'll know they're getting their evening programming.
- [58:45]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, I don't know that.
- [58:46]
William Ramsey
Hey, I don't watch tv. Like I'm freaked out by that. Like you sit me down. No, no, I don't even want to even go there. Well, that's, that's how scared I am.
- [58:55]
David Lee Corbo
They used to have to have a CIA agent on payroll that would, I don't know Kidnap a john from a whorehouse or whatever, strap their eyes open Clockwork Orange style and then subject them to like some sort of dosage and some sort of propaganda in order to brainwash them. That was like what? That's what we're comfortable with now. It's different now we're like free range MK Ultra victims where we're on a low dose of anxiety inducing medication. Yeah, yeah. At all times. We're always high or some because of the weed industry. And it's like it's driving our baseline anxiety up. It's making us open to suggestibility and then we're just willingly sitting down and inundating ourselves with hours and hours of MK Ultra content.
- [59:38]
William Ramsey
Like, yeah, you don't call it. They call it programming for a reason. It's like the dual purpose type stuff that you have to really be afraid of.
- [59:46]
Top Lobster
So yeah, I was, I was telling you this in the pre show. So all of these things that we're talking about are very Kubrick esque where they'll do these things that don't make sense. Inconsistencies all over the place. And I don't know, a very smart person might say, wow, these are really stupid mistakes. But someone like us will look at it and say, no, this is meant to disorient. And my children show that. My kids watch, they were running through YouTube and there's a guy on YouTube who dissects it. This is how I saw this. He dissected the Bluey show. It's just a kid's show on Disney or wherever you can find it. And he's an animator, so he finds all the inconsistencies in it and they're just riddled with them. But as an animator myself and someone who does graphic design, I know that it would take. You would have to go through painstaking detail to make these mistakes. You'd have to actually redraw this entire set. It just doesn't happen. It's not a glitch. So these people are doing these inconsistencies to children. So this is no longer starting in junior high school where we're reading a, you know, a quite dense book. This is it on the children's shows. It's at every single level. So the programming begins super early. Someone just mentioned Baby Shark in the chat. That's one of them as well. It's like a weird hypnosis loop that kids go through and wow.
- [61:06]
David Lee Corbo
Even. Even just on a, on a instrumental level. Right. Music wise, that, that it's like designed to be this enclosed loop that gets stuck in your head in such a way that. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.
- [61:20]
William Ramsey
Transformation. It's not a joke. And that's what ties into this book. They're using these sophisticated. I mean, trance and split brain. How does Salinger know this? All this stuff? He. I mean, he's obviously intelligent, but, like, the narrative is, like I said earlier, it's just to include all these other themes in here that are so potent and dark, like it's. And then. So it goes all the way to the present culture, obviously, through Bluey and Shark. Whatever.
- [61:48]
Top Lobster
Showy. It's incredible.
- [61:50]
William Ramsey
But anyway, 65 million copies, soldier worldwide. Like, that's an incredible event. And if you see how culture creation goes or the Mighty Wurlitzer, they can promote these books and get them into the public consciousness. So if you have, you know, the CIA has assets in the media or something like that, and like, oh, this is the greatest book ever written. Everybody get it. And it's such a masterpiece. And get it into the schools. Like, wow, 65 million copies is crazy. So there's Salinger. That's what he looked like holding Caulfield's goddamn War. So I think, you know, there's a lot He's. There's a lot of historical stuff about salinger. That's him. 77. Weird numerology. But this is him landing, I think, at or somewhere in Normandy. But this is the picture of Mark David Chapman, the alleged killer of Lenin.
- [62:46]
David Lee Corbo
This is like a school shooter.
- [62:49]
William Ramsey
Weird faces, right? Weird still face. Like, not like expressionless.
- [62:54]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. Something about his eyes that. I mean, you know, it could just be because I have a biased. I know what he did, but it looks a little dead behind the eyes.
- [63:02]
William Ramsey
December 8, 1980, I think is the date of Lenin. And then the same kind of weird expression on Hinckley, right?
- [63:09]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, same thing with the eyes.
- [63:11]
William Ramsey
It's same eyes, same pointing to the head. Same.
- [63:13]
David Lee Corbo
It's like emotionless.
- [63:15]
William Ramsey
And then we can go into. So Hinckley's obsession was Catcher on the Ride, but also Taxi Driver, Right. And his obsession was with Jody Foster, 12 years old at Taxi Driver. So she's kind of the sit in for Phoebe, who's done Phoebe from Catcher on the Rhyme. Travis Bickle is kind of like another famous anti hero, right? Travis Bickle of Taxi Driver Forever. Very influential film. I think I won best Best Movie Oscar or maybe Best Screenplay. But Bickle is kind of the anti hero. He's stalking another politician. And Hinckley does the same thing. So three months later, he supposedly Takes a shot at Reagan. Right. But he has this kind of like obsession like Holden Caulfield has with Phoebe, he has with another 12 year old.
- [64:04]
David Lee Corbo
And actually interesting to mention, by the way, way that. But for whatever reason in Taxi, right, Jody Foster, she's incredibly young and. And they're. And they're sexualizing her again.
- [64:12]
William Ramsey
So no question there's these themes. I think she got traumatized by it. I think that there's. Yeah, there's more to that story. It's pedophilia. So. I mean, plain cinema, I don't know what you call it. But anyway, Bickle, the character is beta, based upon a real person who tried to kill George Wallace. His name was Arthur Bremer. And so you and he. There's questions about Bremer too, much like Chapman and Inkley, but it's like a fiction becomes reality. Right. So much like maybe Catcher in the Rye, there's Hinckley's out. Same kind of weird, kind of strains express expression, you know. So this is the date that it happened, March 30. 81. Just as Reagan becomes president. Right. I don't think he was. He was inaugurated 1-20-81. So two months later, who's the beneficiary if. If Reagan dies? George H.W. bush. Right. Vice president. President. Done a lot of work on George H.W. bush. Interesting guy. He will come up later in these slides. This is recent. Like you can't write this stuff.
- [65:25]
David Lee Corbo
Is that real? People are asking him to assassinate Donald Trump.
- [65:29]
Top Lobster
That's hilarious.
- [65:30]
William Ramsey
Yes. On tmz, it's darkly amusing for people who can't see this. For audio, It's John Hinckley Jr. The attempted assassin who shot President Ronald Reagan in the 80s is now getting a barrage of heinous requests online, asking him to do the same. President elect.
- [65:45]
David Lee Corbo
Is he out? Is he free?
- [65:46]
William Ramsey
Yes, this is his. This is Jody Foster. A picture I found. That's her sister, who was her stand in. But on set, 1975. So yeah, five years.
- [65:58]
David Lee Corbo
Got her in this tiny little outfit in Taxi Driver. Yeah, I don't. It's these films and these pieces of entertainment that. That walk that line where they're like, the character is admiring children and. And then somehow they're indulging it in. In text or whatever and you're reading through this and somehow, you know, to top's point, saying he read Catra in the Rye in school and doesn't remember any of it. It's like these themes, they go. It's like a. When you find a song from like an 80s hair metal group that's all about a little girl. And like generations of people, you know, jammed out to it. And it's only now we're like, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. What did he say? Is he talking about a little girl?
- [66:39]
William Ramsey
What?
- [66:40]
David Lee Corbo
How the hell did that enter the culture and then not get identified for generations?
- [66:46]
William Ramsey
Right. That's. Another disturbing aspect of Catcher in the Rye is the pedophilia. It's real and it's kind of like being brought in. So like even. It's kind of like the suggestion like, hey, you weren't thinking about killing yourself or you weren't thinking about going and getting some more weed. Would you like. You can ask that question. But it puts it into your brain, right? So this same kind of thing, it's putting it into your consciousness. It's intentional. There's no question about it. And that's kind of the danger of Catcher on the Right. And I do think Catcher in the Rye is a key component of post war American mind control. I don't. I think the book is absolutely. Has to be a critically analyzed component of everything that happened with these mind control assassins and MK Ultra and all that stuff. I don't think it's external from that. It's part of it.
- [67:34]
David Lee Corbo
It.
- [67:34]
William Ramsey
There's no question in my mind. I don't know the totality of it, but there's. It's too profound. There's Bickle, shaved head, Robert De Niro, We Are the People. But this is interesting. So this is kind of a. This is a book about Hinckley's. But him. This is, this is what, this is what we're going to see about Chapman. He's suicidal. He thinks about killing himself. This is like the same kind of programming as Holden Caulfield, right? But true to form, he tries to commit suicide. John Hinckley will fail. He will wake up nauseated but alive, vowing to find some new way to impress Jody Foster. That's not going to work. He's going to kill somebody else. This is from the President has been Shot book. But get this. Hinckley identified with Travis and began to act like him after he had seen the film 15 times. He brought, bought the same clothes, ate the same foods, drank the same liquors, and invented a girlfriend, just as had Bickle. In August of 1985, 1979, he bought a.38 caliber pistol. He bought a rifle. And there's six sequences in, in Taxi Driver, if you remember where he's buying guns. Remember that I don't know if you've seen it. Have you seen Taxider?
- [68:57]
Top Lobster
Yeah, a long time ago.
- [68:58]
William Ramsey
Yeah, they're like in a hotel buying guns. So he literally is becoming bickle. You know, that's what's really incredible. So like he wants to become, he's identified and wants to become bickle. And we'll see the same thing with, with Chapman. So this is John, this is Bardo. This is a scary looking guy.
- [69:15]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [69:16]
William Ramsey
If you ever see eyes like that, like, right, run for your life. This is 89. He killed this girl Schaefer. He was 19 supposedly and she's 21. But this is the Los Angeles Times about Bardo. He, very recent. He, he had, he sent two years of like innocuous letters to her as typical fan letters. And then all of a sudden a very recent letter. Bardo's obsession turned ominous, authorities said. And then it goes. Witnesses said they had seen Schaefer's assailant fleeing the scene in the yellow shirt, jeans and floppy sandals. Yellow, just like the color of Catching the rye. Weird, huh? When Bardo was arrested in Tucson, he was wearing a T shirt, jeans and sandals. A red paperback copy of the Catcher in the Rye was found on the roof of the Beverly Palms Rehabilitation center on Beverly Boulevard Key. Bardo indicated he threw a red covered paperback book entitled the Catcher in the Rye in the alley while he was running. The discovery of the book harked Back to the 1981 shooting a former. His 1980. They got their numbers wrong. 1981 shooting a former Beatle John Lennon by one time mental patient Mark David Chapman. In New York City after the obsessed fan shot the rock singer, he calmly took out a copy of the J.D. salinger novel and was reading it. What does it say? Police arrived.
- [70:37]
Top Lobster
I wonder what parties read.
- [70:39]
William Ramsey
Right, but these happen so close to each other. I was doing some research on newspapers and here are two stories right back to each other about Hinckley and Chapman together. So he reads past Catcher and the right passage in court. We'll get to that. So you see picture of Hinckley at the top, Chapman at the bottom. Both have mkulter doctors. We'll get to them. And I don't know how much time he got. Maybe this is a two parter, but.
- [71:04]
David Lee Corbo
We got time this, this kind of thing. By the way, even if it's not a well written book, if you have a famous assassin reading it, you know that's going to do real numbers for the, for the sales immediately after public schools. Well, that's what's Crazy too. You would think that given the, given the fact that this is associated with a, with an assassination that they would, you'd go probably not a good book for children because, because the assassin, right.
- [71:36]
William Ramsey
The correlation, right. Like hey, the assassins are reading this. Why should we put it out in public?
- [71:40]
David Lee Corbo
Right? Unless of course that was.
- [71:43]
Top Lobster
Well, the correlation, the correlation is assassins are reading this, continue to put it out in public.
- [71:48]
William Ramsey
Let's make some more assassins. Right?
- [71:50]
David Lee Corbo
Working.
- [71:51]
William Ramsey
Yeah, it's working. We found our subjects. This is great. Hinckley underwent more than three months of testing at the Federal Correctional center at Butner, New North Carolina by defense and government psychiatrists. Like that, that should scare it. At Quantico, Virginia. There he is on the left. This is Robert Bardo. Obsessed fan Robert Bartle carried the Catcher on the Ride because his assassin's kit in his assassin's kit. So it was part of his kit to kill actress Rebecca Schaefer because of John Lennon's killer carried the same book. That's Park Elliott Deets who's pretty famous psychiatrist. Bardo identified closely with Mark David Chapman, Lennon's assassin and knew that chapman had the J.D. salinger book about a young man's alienation with him when he shotland. It's not about alienation, guys. This is like so superficial, man.
- [72:46]
David Lee Corbo
It feels like people will almost al. I don't think we can put, we can overlook how much influence an assassin will have on a disenfranchised youth. I, I think we still see that today. That's why you get copycat shooters whenever it comes to school shootings.
- [73:05]
William Ramsey
And didn't Mangione have some kind of like following and people admired him for killing the people still does.
- [73:15]
David Lee Corbo
Fell in love with them after the fact. So yeah, that you create a cult, a cultural craze amongst young short sighted people. I, I, I've heard it argued, I think on this show by a guest that it kind of connects to what you're saying here about the book. Some of the more recent, recent shootings were used to popularize SSRIs. That that was actually the real gold. Not just like gun laws or, or whatever, you know, kind of a removal of your, your freedoms. But it is a way, even though it sounds counterintuitive to ingrain the population more and more with SSRIs and, and neurological related pharmaceuticals in the same way. It almost seems like they're like using these things to popularize and push this book. Get it into pop culture, get it into the hands of the disenfranchised youth. You know, that sort of a thing.
- [74:15]
William Ramsey
Yeah, yeah. His brain was split. According to deets. This guy Bardo, he alternated between seeing Schaeffer as all evil or all good, but not aware of the shift in his emotions, much like Holden Caulfield. How did they know all that stuff to get that this kind of psychological state into holding callfield field in 1951. But he's smart enough to hire detectives to track down her down in la, which is interesting. So you gotta wonder like, how detached from reality he really was. Just another kind of article where they mentioned Chapman and Hinckley at the same time. So these are happening. Q's killer had copy of Catcher. That's Bardo. So Those are the three. 1. This is an article how the Catcher in the Rise link to jfk, John Lennon and Rebecca Schaefer. Jfk. There's a rumor. I haven't really verified it, but Oswald had a copy of Catcher in the Heart Rye as well in his library. And that JFK and Reagan were both admirers of the book Catcher in the Rhyme. And you'll see some real philanthrops and psychopaths like Catcher on the Ryan. It makes you kind of wonder when you know this information, why they like the book.
- [75:27]
David Lee Corbo
Right, William, do you think it's a well done book?
- [75:30]
Top Lobster
There you go.
- [75:33]
William Ramsey
I think it's incredibly profound and smart and so well done. I would say, like, there's things in there that are too sophisticated for me to like, believe that. I mean, it just brings up the question, like, did this guy really write this or was he a front guy? Because there's so many site. I mean, I know he was in a psych ward, so maybe he's familiar with kind of psychological states. But there's something about this that's different than just like going in like the Bell Jar where you're talking about, like being depressed. There's something about this that's like malevolent and negative and nihilistic that makes me think something else is going on, you know, like they're really trying to change the culture.
- [76:17]
Top Lobster
I think the question is like, if we're to pervade the culture. So, yeah, the question you're asking here is like, would it, would it be a natural phenomenon? I don't think so. Because, like, in the same way, Taylor Swift is not a natural phenomenon. Like, I can look at her and I can say, yes, I could understand why this is like, catchy, but I can't understand why it's catchy to the level that it is. You know, What? I mean, right.
- [76:39]
William Ramsey
Yeah, but all those. All those artists aren't natural phenomena. They're all just performers. Somebody else is writing their music and doing all the producing. They just show up and sing, you know, so.
- [76:47]
Top Lobster
Right.
- [76:48]
William Ramsey
I've heard the same thing about what's. I got Friends in Low places. What's that guy's name again? Garth Brooks. Yeah, it's apparently the same kind of thing where he was a singer, but he's kind of like a culture creation to change country and make country more poppy and more of like arena type stuff. Like, I've heard that some of the other country musicians said there was something sketchy about Garth Brooks.
- [77:15]
Top Lobster
Yeah, I think Tom. What's his name? Tom Segura. He like, like blew the roof off of Garth. Garth Brooks. He accused him of being a murderer or something. And, like, it got really weird because he actually might be a murderer.
- [77:29]
David Lee Corbo
I don't know. Is that where it ended up? Because I used to listen to their podcast when they were running that joke at its height, and it, you know, it was just basically. The guy's got such a look in his eyes and he's so unnatural when he does interviews that, like, Brooks. Yeah. They're like, he's like a serial killer. And then they just started that rumor and then. Yeah, I don't know. I guess maybe you're right. Has it gotten to the point now where Garth Brooks actually has some allegations being levied against him?
- [77:57]
William Ramsey
Yes.
- [77:58]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [78:00]
William Ramsey
Well, you should read. Read my podcast. Like some little podcast. My book. I actually have a full chapter on what happened to Riley Strain in Nashville, Tennessee.
- [78:11]
Top Lobster
Okay, there we go.
- [78:13]
William Ramsey
Anyway, this is the picture from. I'm not trying to change the subject, but.
- [78:17]
David Lee Corbo
No, no, go, please.
- [78:18]
William Ramsey
This is the Catcher in the Rye red cover. This is all about psychological states and call like, the kid has the shine, right? So he's kind of special, like Coalfield or whatever. I forgot the kid's name. It is interest. What's that? Danny in. In the end, I think that Phoebe is wearing a blue dress too. When he sees her on the carousel, she's wearing a blue dress. So this is kind. Maybe they knew. They're reading it like they knew it. And this is all about schizophrenia and, you know, scatterbrain type stuff. This is the movie, I think. I don't. It's either been brought in, but this is conspiracy theory. There's like a sequence in here where he. Let me see if I can bring that up. Where he, like, goes to buy the Catcher in the R at a. At A bookstore, just like, you know, Chapman does. Let me see if I can bring it up. You should be able to play this. Can you play this video?
- [79:20]
Top Lobster
Sure.
- [79:21]
William Ramsey
Your receipt? Yeah.
- [79:23]
David Lee Corbo
Thank you.
- [79:25]
William Ramsey
Thanks. Catching a ride? Yeah. It's. It's a classic.
- [79:29]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [79:29]
William Ramsey
Have you ever read it? Yeah, I've never read it. Never? No, I haven't. I've never read it. I never.
- [79:42]
David Lee Corbo
Film is this.
- [79:44]
William Ramsey
That's conspiracy theory with Mel Gibson.
- [79:47]
David Lee Corbo
So, I mean, you know, it's just strange because I recognize the way you're describing the main character in Catcher the Rye is having, like, you know, bouts of. Of delusion and paranoia and things like that. And then this element, you know, seemingly just based off of that short clip, stays true all the way to this film.
- [80:03]
William Ramsey
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's pretty. It's pretty crazy. So this is kind of like the free. This is Joe Atwell's research. He says that there's, like a subtext of secret societies in Catcher in the Rye. And this is this last sentence he writes. This is from 2015. It is alleged that Lee Harvey Oswald had a copy in his apartment and that it was one of his favorite books, though this is disputed, so I can't verify that.
- [80:30]
Top Lobster
I gotta check this page out. There's like, look at these tags. Josephus.
- [80:37]
William Ramsey
His kind of claim to fame is that the New Testament's fake and it was created by the Roman Empire as a form of culture creation.
- [80:45]
Top Lobster
Oh, okay. He's one of these types. Okay.
- [80:47]
William Ramsey
He's definitely one of those types. And we can talk. We can talk offline. I know too much. I've known some of those.
- [80:56]
David Lee Corbo
Lsd, Lucifer.
- [80:59]
William Ramsey
Yeah. Whenever they're promoting lsd, you gotta really sit up in your chair. It was interesting. I did a show with another guy, Hans Uterus. Like, these other books that came out at the time of Catcher in the Rye I think are very telling. And it's very interesting that he commented on, because the Catcher in the Ride didn't come out in a vacuum. There was another book about something where they promoted LSD usage. Right. I can't remember what it was. And then there was another one that was about kind of a schizo girl. Like, why are people getting exposed to this in high school? So I think that that seeing the other books that came out. Oswald's connection to the book. That was from Chat.
- [81:40]
David Lee Corbo
No, that was from the same time that our own intelligence agencies developed an interest in these topics. So, I mean, you know, we. We maintain on this show that the intelligence agencies are responsible for manufacturing culture here. In the west is. It's been as far back as the. The anti war movement and Laurel Canyon in the Doors and such. But I would argue probably before that. Nothing new. Right.
- [82:03]
Top Lobster
Is the movie the. The book the Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley?
- [82:07]
William Ramsey
No. No. I have to go back and. And get it. It's. I did a show with hands ucher about this, but it was a theme. It was a. A woman's book. I'm sorry, I. I really should have that because I think it's important because Catcher and the Ride didn't come out. You know, like I said, in the vacuum wasn't by itself. But this is a quote. This is a people shooting hat. I said I shoot people in this hat. This is a direct quote from the book. And that's his people shooting hats. The chain smoker. He's a pyromaniac. He says he's a sex maniac. So this madman maniac words are repeated almost on every page. Think about the psychic driving of that. Like, you're literally. So that's the whole thing about. And I've seen misinterpretations of like, other public figures. And you kind of wonder like, who's writing these books, these critical books about certain things, because they don't understand really what's going on in these books. Like, I. I mean, the same thing happened when I was researching Crowley 15 years ago. Like, he's a dabbler. He, you know, you know, didn't know much about it. And then you start reading Crowley's guy. This guy's like an encyclopedia vehicle he's trying to like, make. He literally wrote his own encyclopedias, knows everything about the occultum. All these people are calling him a dabbler. Like, that's his whole life. He's literally drinking blood and eating human effluents and I mean, just like really crazy stuff.
- [83:36]
David Lee Corbo
Well, that's what makes me wonder. Sometimes you're going to try to find the connection between, like, an author who previously didn't write anything of any consequence and then suddenly writes a book that is massively culturally significant and is riddled with elements of hypnosis and MK Ultra and schizophrenia and all this other. And then becomes part of this sort of, you know, these, these big events in the country moving forward. Yeah, you try to find the connective tissue and it's like, it's difficult to. But the CIA also has its hands in trying to understand the occult, trying to understand psychic abilities and such. I just wonder if it's of a spiritual nature because so Many times throughout history, when somebody makes a great work of art, they attribute it to, you know, it came to me in a dream. The muses gave it to me, yada, yada. So, you know, you would struggle then to find the connection. Except for the idea that the intelligence agencies might be in contact with the same spiritual entities that are telling this guy to write this book.
- [84:36]
William Ramsey
Yeah, I mean, a lot of these. The CIA was founded by guys from school and Bones. So, right. Like when. When Truman's there and the NSA act is being signed, like, for the people behind Truman are Skull and Bonesmen. These are all occultists. These are high level, intelligent occultists. The scariest kind, because they're not like caricatures like Leve. Like, these are people who wear Brooks Brothers suits, like Holden Caulfield, like scions of wealthy families and stuff. Let me read like that. You want to talk about MKULTA? Listen to this. This is from page 73. He's talking. He's like flim flaming. This mother of his, buddy of one of his schoolmates he doesn't know very well. But he's lying to her. He says he can lie forever. Old Miss Morrow didn't say anything, but, boy, you should have seen her. I had her glued to her seat. You take somebody's mother, all they want to hear about is what a hotshot their son is. Then I really started clucking the old crap around. Did he tell you about the elections? I asked her the class elections. She shook her head. I had her in a trance. Like, I really did. Interesting use of word. If you know this kind. And we'll see this later, but if you know this, like, things like he's manipulated, super manipulative and not a good way.
- [85:54]
David Lee Corbo
And that's often a. An aspect of psychopaths and narcissists, right? Is that they're. They're manipulators.
- [86:01]
William Ramsey
Yeah, Total manipulative. Yeah. He doesn't have any redeeming character. If you're a total piece of garbage. He has redeeming. Colton Caulfield has redeeming characteristics. It's very dark when you read it. I would suggest people read this book. And actually I'd be willing, you know, send me an email if you think, like, you found something good, like, oh, he's intelligent or something. Maybe that's the case. But like, it's dark. This is a story. This is a recent book on the assassination of John Lennon where this author, David Whelan, who I've interviewed, he doesn't even think Lenon. I mean Chapman shot Lenon because of the, the kill, the pattern of bullets on Lennon's body. So it's really disturbing. Like he, he just was in there and we'll get into that. But this is the book that I'm going to reference the murder of John Lennon by Fenton Bresla and we could do some readings on this. You know, keep going. When you come to read in detail about how Mark Chapman behaved after Lennon's murder, you will find a striking parallel between the days, as if in a trance like condition of the two men, Mark remembered more of the actual killing, but otherwise their reactions were also identical. This is between sir and Saran and Chapman. So you see this transword we just covered, right? This is the tie between Lennon and Sirhan Sirhan 68 and 80 this episode.
- [87:24]
David Lee Corbo
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- [88:56]
William Ramsey
An odd footnote to all this. The principal medical defense witness for Sirhan was Dr. Bernard diamond of the University of California, one of America's leading psychiatrists who used hypnosis in his work. Thirteen years later, he was to be one of the defense psychiatrists for Mark's case. His diagnosis for the two men was the same paranoid schizophrenia. Yet he seems not to have used hypnosis in either of his two interviews with Mark. Although he hypnotized her hand on six of his eight visits to great effect. For instance, when Mr. Dr. Diamond asked Sirhan where he had concealed his gun while waiting for Kennedy, Sirhan in his trance went for the inside of his belt on the left side. And the police at last knew where he'd carried the weapon. So you see this trance. So why is this word trance in this book? Like the word, the terminology is way too sophisticated for Catcher on the Rye. I got to tell you, it's really disturbing. And they see this kind of repeated phraseology right here. Sirhan wrote, yes, yes, yes. Are you crazy? No. No. Well, why are you writing crazy? Practice, Practice, practice, Practice for what? Mind control. Mind control. Mind control was the written reply. Right? And then you go back to Catcher in The Rye, page 19. You will, you will, you will. And this whole notion of the will is like the personal will, but it's very important, like you will do it, you know, like this is the individual guy. This is repeated in page 19, to catch on the Rye. This repeated. There's these repetitions that come through here.
- [90:27]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it's a mantra. And then the trigger word, same thing in the Shining. Right. Red Rum. And then she reads it and he's like, well, now I'm gonna kill you.
- [90:35]
William Ramsey
Yeah, I know it's bad. So New York. Marcus gave me a list of objects Mark's had on him when he took into police custody. Includes Mark's copy of the Catcher in the Rye, Ker room, Bank of Hawaii, Visa card. So you see Honolulu, which is where this guy Ruth and Manjianu both were in Hawaii. And you can just go on. The second most popular misconception about Mark relates to JG Salinger's famous novel To Catch on the Ride. The theory is that he had always identified himself with Holden Caulfield, the book's phony hating 16 year old hero, ever since he first read Catcher at the same age. Well, that wasn't the case. It's just that he took it on himself leading up to the murders, as it says in this book. And then he writes, after all, this is the book that the amazed New York policeman found him quietly reading outside the Dakota when. Which was where Rosemary's Baby was filmed, by the way, when he had thrown down. This is right on Central Park, Right where the book takes place. Right, so Dakota, Central Park, Park. He had thrown down his gun immediately after killing Lennon with the inscription inside the COVID written by Mark to Holden Caulfield. From Holden Caulfield. This is my statement. So much like Hinckley who became Travis Bickle Chapman, becomes Holden Caulfield in his mind. In his prison cell awaiting trial, he maintained, the reason I killed John Lennon was to gain prominence to promote the reading of J.D. salinger's Catcher in the Rye. I'm not saying I'm a messiah or anything like that. If you read the book and you understand my past, you will see that I am indeed the Catcher in the Rye of this generation.
- [92:23]
David Lee Corbo
Fascinating. I love that too. Where he's basically like, yes, this is a commercial for the Catcher in the Rye he's promoting.
- [92:31]
William Ramsey
He does it in court too. So you'll see this later in court. He says this in jail, but he does it again and we'll see this.
- [92:37]
David Lee Corbo
So according to him, the point is the Catcher in the Ride. That's the entire point.
- [92:41]
William Ramsey
Precisely.
- [92:43]
David Lee Corbo
It's worth mentioning here that Google says the individuals with Dissociative Identity Disorder have the highest hypnotizability of any clinical group, followed by those with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And, and a moment ago, what you were reading there indicated that he perceives himself as. As somebody else. I don't know.
- [93:07]
William Ramsey
That's holding Caulfield. That's what he wrote in his book. He was right.
- [93:10]
David Lee Corbo
So I don't know what you would call a identity disorder, more than that.
- [93:15]
Top Lobster
The channeling almost.
- [93:17]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So if you can. And this gets down into the. The sort of the MK Ultra thing about traumatizing children in order to be able to program them. It's like at first the trauma needs to happen and then the program, you know, programming takes place afterwards. Seems that trauma is a fracturing of identity. And if, if you can achieve that and then, then you have an incredibly malleable candidate.
- [93:46]
William Ramsey
Indeed. This is from page 139. Mark's life changes. So he goes through this personality changes. Much like Mangione. Right? He was. It was clearly a difficult time for him. And now an ominous new factor came into his life. He became interested in the Catcher in the Rye. We do not know why, we do not know if anyone suggested it to him, and if so, who. Catcher is a book that most people read once in their life, in their teens. That is it. Why on earth, seemingly out of the blue, did Mark suddenly get so involved in a book that like most of his generation of young Americans had already. He had already read before at School, nearly 10 years ago? So is it absolutely too far fetched to contemplate that there may have been a connection between these two events? Reagan emerging as a front runner in the Election stakes and Mark now picking up Catcher again with the further coincidence of Lenin striding back and renewed vigor into the hit factory in Manhattan to record his comeback album, Double Fantasy. If Catcher, with an explosive effect on Mark, was indeed the trigger for his programming, serving to put him on alert in case of call, it all does seem to come together with remarkable neatness. This is basically him, like this is him kind of going through Catcher on the Rye and all this stuff. I mean we can. I can read this. The imbalance in the psychological makeup of immature 16 year old Holden Caulfield exactly suited the temperament of bewildered, unhappy 25 year old mark Chapman. Nowhere is this better exemplified than in the passage towards the end of Catcher when Holden, visiting his beloved younger sister Phoebe's school in an abortive attempt to talk to her, sees the words FU written on a wall quote. It drove me damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it and how they'd wonder what the hell it meant. And then finally some dirty kid would tell them. I kept wanting to kill whoever'd written it. I figured it was some perverty bomb that sneaked into school late at night and then wrote it on the wall. I kept picturing myself catching him at it. So there's the Catcher theme, catching him at it. And how I'd smash his head upon the stone steps until he was good and goddamn dead and bloody. But I knew too I wouldn't have the guts to do it. That made me even more depressed. So this is a theme of violence. Like this is extreme violence. Smash his head against the wall, dead and bloody. And this catching thing, like he's catching people doing wrong and striking out.
- [96:18]
David Lee Corbo
Sounds like somebody who was exposed to some sort of trauma when they were a kid. Apparently those who have will often grow into adulthood with a very strong sense of desire for justice. Justice or righteousness. And it's probably because of the ways that they were done wrong as a child. And that to me right there sounded.
- [96:38]
Top Lobster
Like fits that bill the idea of cowardice as well. It's like this weird admission of like I know I'm not brave enough to.
- [96:48]
William Ramsey
Do it, it's right. Strange to say no, it's strange. These correlations are really strange. This is the day of killing. He's as he walked the 20 blocks up to the Dakota on West 72nd street, incongruous amid the lightly dressed New Yorkers with his heavy winter gear, he realized he was missing a prop he had with him his Double Fantasy album. But something was Missing, he altered his progress toward Lenin selected place of execution and dived into a bookshop to emerge with a red paperback copy of Catcher in the Rye. On the title page. He wrote to Holden Caulfield from Holden Caulfield. And below that. This is my statement. In between times, like all this stuff was happening, he was hanging around in front of the Dakota and he just would sit down and read Catcher in the Rye. And then when he shot him, he had. He, you know, sat down and started reading it again. And then he goes to jail and he's talking about Catcher in the Rye. And then this is his. This is his statement from February 1st. He wrote this. Whatever the true explanation, on Sunday 1st February, Mark sat down and wrote to the New York Times in ballpoint capitals, a statement which the newspaper printed eight days later. Seldom could a book that first appeared in paperback 17 years earlier have had such a glowing sales boost. Interesting quote. It is my sincere belief that presenting this written statement will not only stimulate the reading of J.D. salinger's The Catcher and Rye, but will also help many to understand what has happened. If you were able to view the actual copy of the Catcher in the Rye that was taken from me on the night of December 8th, you would find in it the handwritten words, this is my statement. Unfortunately, I was unable to continue the stance and have since spoken openly with the police, doctors and others involved in this case. I now fully realize that this should not have been done, for it removed the emphasis that I wanted to place on the book. My wish is for all of you to someday read the Catcher in the Rye. All of my efforts will now be devoted towards this goal, for this extraordinary book holds many answers. My true hope is that in wanting to find these answers, you will read the Catcher in the Rye. Thank you, Mark David Chapman. The Catcher in the Rye.
- [98:58]
David Lee Corbo
This is strange because these people are gleaming something like profound from this book. And I'll admit it does make me wonder, what is it that they determine is so meaningful that it becomes the driving force for, you know, wild, wild decision making? When this book is given to so many public school children, it's not like it's got a short, you know, a small amount of readers. Lots of people have been subjected to the material. Lots of people come away not feeling this way. What on earth is this dude gleaming from this, Right?
- [99:34]
William Ramsey
What meaning are you gleaning from a nihilistic book that's just full of kind of like, violence and perversion? Like, you see these things, like, a lot. One of the Things I would suggest not just, well, if you're up for it, read the book, but also the analysis of like literary critics on the book and see how much they miss how much of driving and how violent he is and the murder cap and this kind of theme of like sexual repression, oppression and the pervasive kind of perverse, like I would say it lists almost every major sexual perversion, like sadism, masochism, transvietism, voyeurism, prostitution, pedophilia. Like it's all there.
- [100:14]
David Lee Corbo
Which plugs directly into the occult. Right. I mean, yeah. Talking with you last episode about Aleister Crowley and, and you know, he's engaging in, in sex magic, ritual sex magic. I mean these things, the, the people.
- [100:28]
Top Lobster
That would be reviewing this, they would, they would be looking at that as like a, like an artistic rendition of whatever he's saying.
- [100:36]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [100:37]
Top Lobster
I think that they are a little bit deluded in their own mind. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't necessarily stick out to them as strange.
- [100:46]
William Ramsey
Well, that's true. They probably wouldn't even see the connection between these, these kind of programmed assassins in the book. So like they're just looking at it and some of them might, might be like Mockingbird assets or something. I don't know.
- [100:59]
Top Lobster
Right.
- [101:00]
William Ramsey
So this is, this is the, the murder happens December 8th. This is Chapman walking into court. Monday, 24th of August 1981. Mark David Chapman, his hair close crop from the incident when he totally shaved his head, which is very telling, walked into Justice Edwards court under his usual heavy armed guard. He carried with him a copy of the Catcher on the Rye. He wore dark slacks and light blue T shirt with no jacket. He could clearly see the bulletproof vest. He had worked it out. Okay, so this is him. He spent several hours listening to other people talking about him. What did he have to say in his own defense? Asked if he had anything to say to the court before sentence was pronounced. Now this is very interesting because Mark and Sirhan Sirhan both pled guilty. Right. So they didn't have to go to like this whole in court proceeding. Right. So all the evidence pronounced it against them or anything there didn't have to go through that process because they pled guilty. Right. It's a very important tool. Svn. Anything to say in the court before sentence was pronounced? Mark opened his copy of the Catcher on the Rye and read an extract to the hushed part 49. He had worked it out carefully. If you want to check it for yourself, it's. It is to be found on page 173 of the Bantam paperback. Holden Caulfield is talking to his young sister Phoebe, the only person in the world whom he really loves, about what he wants to be when he grows up. She suggests a lawyer like their father, but Holden dismisses lawyers as phonies. What he wants to be is a Catcher in the Rye and explains what he means. And this passes passage cited by Mark David Chapman on his Day of Judgment quote. Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all the thousands of little kids and nobody is around. Nobody big, I mean, except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some craggy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff. I mean, they are running and they don't look where they are going. I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I just be the Catcher in the Rye. Does anyone think in court understand what he was saying? Least of all the judge? I doubt it. Nothing was going to be permitted to raise these proceedings from the level of humdrum. And then he was pronounced sentences. And then the judge delivers this kind of verdict where he's guilty, but.
- [103:21]
David Lee Corbo
So he perceives himself as a. As a hero. Yeah, in. In many words, but. But in. In what actions? What the hell does he has he done throughout the course of this book where he is that version of the catcher that he's talking about?
- [103:36]
William Ramsey
Right. And then this is from Hinckley, right? This is about Hinckley. Rawhide was Reagan's Secret Service name. So this book is called rawhide down, page 22. Four day trip was a blur of fast food and brief stops. Las Vegas, Cheyenne, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Traveling through Utah, he awoke from a brief nap to find the bus hurtling through a massive snowstorm. He spent much of the trip slouched in a window seat watching the scenery stream by. Or reading the Catcher in the Rye, J.D. salinger's novel of teenage angst and alienation. It's worth. It means much more than that he identified with the story's main character, Holden Caulfield. But the book was also special to him because he knew that John Lennon's assassin had pulled it from his pocket and leaf threw it moments before gunning down the rock and roll icon. Lennon, who had been killed three and a half months earlier, was Hinckley's favorite musician. Even so, he sometimes felt he identified more with Lincoln's killer than with Lincoln himself. And it's interesting too. Because he had a suitcase. Hinckley did it. Sell some of his poems and short stories, as well as several of his favorite books. In addition to Catcher in the Rock the Rye, Hinckley had brought along a copy of Shakespeare's Romeo in Juliet in a book called Strawberry Fields Forever. John Lennon Remembered. And Romeo and Juliet is mentioned in Catcher in the Rye, interestingly enough. So what the hell is this guy doing with all this stuff? And this is George Bush, 1995. There's this marvelous book by Salinger called Catcher in the Rye, one of his favorite. That's a book that inspired him. So Skull and Bonesman, right?
- [105:16]
David Lee Corbo
Is that what he says? He says he was inspired by that book.
- [105:18]
William Ramsey
Yeah.
- [105:19]
David Lee Corbo
Why?
- [105:19]
Top Lobster
Right there at the bottom.
- [105:21]
William Ramsey
Why is there. Was there a book that inspired you? One of the historians here in Williamsburg talked about War and Peace. I had to read that in school. It was an inspiring, lengthy treatise. I read it twice. It taught me a lot about life. There was a marvelous book by Salinger called Catcher in the Rhyme. These books, I think, helped shape my life. To be honest with you, not one book stands out. There's another winner.
- [105:42]
David Lee Corbo
Get ready for this book that made me the psychopath that I am today. Oh, are you kidding me, Dude?
- [105:46]
William Ramsey
No.
- [105:47]
David Lee Corbo
Psychopaths.
- [105:48]
William Ramsey
Nope. Bill Gates. This is from the mouth himself. Mouth of the Mound. I read a lot. I don't always choose what's on the bestseller list. Many of the books I read this year actually come out years ago. This is why this post isn't called the best books of 2013. You may notice that there aren't any novels on my list this year. It's not that I don't enjoy fiction. I've read the Catcher in the Rye a bunch of times. It's one of my favorite books ever. Mm. Absolutely fitting, right? These guys are psychos, man.
- [106:17]
David Lee Corbo
Who the hell is a fan of this book? That's like, somebody you'd go, oh, that guy's cool. Like, literally just listing off the worst people ever. And, you know, assassins or war criminals.
- [106:30]
William Ramsey
It's featured in this book, this movie, the Good Girl. One of the main characters is like a. Like a Holden Caulfield. But this is kind of interesting to. Jared Lee does chapter 27. So there's 26 chapters in the book. So this book is the 27th chapter, and it's pretty interesting. It quotes directly from Catching the Rye and Chapman, how interesting he is.
- [106:52]
David Lee Corbo
And by the way, Jared Leto is a guy that emulated Kubrick in his, I would say, probably the greatest hit single of his band 30 seconds to Mars. The song Kill is an entire homage to the film the Shining.
- [107:08]
William Ramsey
I have no idea.
- [107:09]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, if you go up and look up the Kill and watch that music video, it is a. It's a miniature the Shining.
- [107:17]
William Ramsey
This is from chapter 27. Not only did he have Chapman have, like, a catch on the ride, but he had the wizard of Oz motif, which is also a known kind of programming book. Wizard of Oz, Frank Oz. Totally occult. This is Holden holding Hold Valley or something. That's like, the interpretation. And this is like the call. I did a search on call. In many cultures, a child born with a call was considered to be lucky or blessed. There's a superstition that such children are protected from drowning or have a special destiny. Various traditions have viewed it as a sign of spiritual or psychic abilities. In some folklore, the call was believed to bestow second sight or the ability to see into the future. So Caulfield not mistake. And this is just like. This guy Ruth is very suspicious. He literally, like, lived. Like, we're close to where Chapman was on Oahu. A lot of medical buildings, stuff around there. And this is the kind of. This is the thing. Surge. Sloth. Rop. The NYPD claims to have found the CEO shooters. That's Mangioni's backpack. Near the carousel in Central Park. Exactly where the Catcher in the Rye ends.
- [108:31]
Top Lobster
Holy.
- [108:35]
David Lee Corbo
Man.
- [108:38]
Top Lobster
You.
- [108:38]
David Lee Corbo
It becomes, you know, difficult because you. You're trying to imagine who. Who's weaving a web this broad and. And this long as far as it's. It's stretching back into history.
- [108:51]
William Ramsey
Intel. Intel. People who know the inside story, you know, I think. But a lot. A lot of these words, they don't have the kind of modern potence like the dirty words that are in there, but there's a lot.
- [109:04]
David Lee Corbo
So that's why they can kind of get away with giving it to giving kids in school, because it's not so direct, you know, if it was the 50s, it would have been direct. But not now.
- [109:12]
William Ramsey
Right. But there's a lot. Like, Snowing is lying. Prince Phony Necking is kissing. Give her the time as a euphemism. Flitty. Like, he mentions flitty a lot when he's talking to Loose. Holden does. But critical reviews affirm the novel accurately reflected the teenage colloquial speech of the time. This is interesting because I like, when I was reading this book, kind of like, as a. In a paranoid view, I was thinking about the CIA or just intel involved in this. The cultural cold war came to mind. This book by Francis Stoner Saunders, highly recommended. Like, a lot of the, like, modern art is totally intel. Created to create, you know, destabilize the system, to move away from beauty. Much like this book. Right? So, like, this is like, fits in with the other arts and letters, like, but the other. Not visual. This is the literary version of it. Right. In my opinion. But it is interesting because they mentioned this in the cultural Cold war. They mentioned J.D. salinger, and it's basically this thing, encounter, where they're promoting certain writers. Right. Or urging Spender to open the literary pages to a new generation of American writers. Writers like Saul Bellow, J.D. salinger, Truman Capote or Shirley and Ground. So you see that one of these guys who's associated with the CA is promoting Salinger. So I think there might be more to this story. Like, I. I haven't done all my research about this, but that's basically it. I think those are all my slides, man.
- [110:50]
David Lee Corbo
It almost leaves you with more questions like, what the hell? Where did this book come. Come from? Who got their hand on this guy who previously seemingly wrote nothing of. Of real consequence? And I'm not saying that people can't have, like, a breakthrough project that they're working on, but then to be of such a nature that mirrors the nature of the intelligence agency's interests of the time, that mirrors the interests of the regime that lost World War II. Only, you know, how. How many years before that. And then we are rumored to. To take these people and put them into our institutions and then to just to see it as this. This through line. There's so many other instances or so many other impactful moments in American history is. Is.
- [111:39]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [111:40]
David Lee Corbo
All the way till today. Luigi Mangione.
- [111:43]
Top Lobster
The crazy thing about that book is, like, short of my inclination or my reaction to be like, we should probably just burn this book, honestly, maybe we should just probably, like, see that it's crazy, like, not allow it to be read. Because the people who it's affecting, there's really no discernible sequence as to how they're affected in this way, but the outcome seems to be pretty standard. Some sort of assassination just assassinating a president.
- [112:14]
William Ramsey
Yeah.
- [112:15]
Top Lobster
And it's like, I don't. We don't know what chemical imbalance somebody might have that reads this book resonates with them. And then they go and they act this out.
- [112:24]
David Lee Corbo
We know that will have chemical imbalances.
- [112:27]
Top Lobster
Right?
- [112:27]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, but I mean. Yeah, you're. You're right. I mean, what if. What if you could hypothetically create a Text based format that if somebody were to read in their own internal dialogue would. Would accelerate some disposition that they have. Because earlier I said that the people that are easiest to hypnotize are those with identity disorders. So if you have somebody that you know has trauma and look all the way till 2025 now we have an industry that works like a well oiled machine at diagnosing children. So more children now are being diagnosed with identity disorders or. Or trauma based disorders than ever before. And if there truly is a selection process based off of that that means there's more candidates than ever before. So if you have this text that could potentially awaken or hijack your psychology if you have that disposition. Shouldn't. Shouldn't we stop letting people. Because I know what you're saying. Top it's like burn this book. Oh book burnings are bad. You know like it's got that connotation and I'm not one to suppress information. I don't. I don't think that that's a good, good thing. Is this information or is this programming?
- [113:36]
William Ramsey
Right? Right. Could it be both?
- [113:41]
David Lee Corbo
Why not both? I have the best pieces of entertainment often are. Right.
- [113:45]
William Ramsey
Yeah. I think there's. I think this is a piece of kind of like that modern intel culture creation just like Francis Stoner Saunders wrote about. We'll see if you want to see Chapman's doctor you can just pop up the. This video. It gets pretty disturbing. This is actually probably one of the best things on mind control you could ever watch called Mission Mind Control. But we'll see his doctor, his name is Klein. And then he goes through you and camera and get injure a lot of these other characters. But I think the top the. The talk about Klein is really something else. And this guy I may have done a. This is. This is him right here. That's kiddinger who was involved. Interesting. I don't know if you ever remember the movie JFK by. By Stone. Right. The intro is this girl, I think Laramie was her name or something chucked out of a car. She was under this guy's care. You cannot write this stuff man. Like there's jfk totally impossible. Seem absolutely credible. I would say the answer is yes. But they're so that's the. They're asking can you make a mind control person. This is literally the doctor who saw Chapman in the hot. In the. In the jail.
- [115:03]
David Lee Corbo
Oh come on.
- [115:04]
William Ramsey
Really? 1980. Yeah.
- [115:06]
Top Lobster
What's his name?
- [115:07]
William Ramsey
Klein. K L I N E Dr. Milton Klein. A psychologist. A clinical and experimental hypnotist unpaid consultant to the CIA. Qualifications would be the subject selected to produce the kind of behavior that you wish, the amount of time, the procedures that are utilized, and the motivations of the people who are designing, executing and administering the procedures. You're asking whether an individual can be under hypnosis, influenced, coerced, persuaded, shaped to perform an antisocial act or a destructive act or an act of violence? My answer would be yes. Captain Marco, will you be good enough to lend Raymond your pistol, please? Yes, ma'am. Thanks, Ben.
- [116:05]
David Lee Corbo
Sure, kid.
- [116:08]
William Ramsey
Shoot Bobby Raymond through the forehead. Yes, ma'am. See, this is like the communist backdrop, right? The communist paranoia, the Manchurian.
- [116:19]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [116:19]
William Ramsey
This is what these guys in the 50s were worried about.
- [116:21]
David Lee Corbo
Is this before or after these events? Like, is he getting up there after these events have all taken place and then saying like, yeah, we can do that, or is this before it ever happened?
- [116:31]
William Ramsey
This, I think my operation Mind Control was before. So it's in this. I think this was done in 76 around the wild.
- [116:39]
David Lee Corbo
So is it just the idea that no one's ever going to find this footage or no one of consequence will find it?
- [116:45]
William Ramsey
I don't think. I don't think anybody knew this stuff. Like, these are kind of. You have to remember, this is before even vhs. So this is just like a one and done show. But somebody was smart enough to save it and keep it in archive.org which.
- [116:58]
David Lee Corbo
Is wild because without it, I mean, this is huge. The guy's like, yeah, we could do this. Of course we can. Hypnotize a guy, explains it right to you. Yeah.
- [117:07]
William Ramsey
Then he shows up. I mean, we already saw the connection between Sirhan Sirhan and Chapman through Diamond. Right. The same guys. What they're telling the public is Snow job. I mean, who knows what they're doing, you know, back there, literally, Chapman had like six major doctors go meet with him after the event. Wow. And then he pleads guilt. Like, the thing is, is he plead. That's the. There's commonalities. He pleads guilty, so there's no trial, it's all right.
- [117:34]
David Lee Corbo
Right, Right. But I mean, if you were hypnotized.
- [117:37]
William Ramsey
To do so, I mean, imagine like this is like the most sinister take imaginable about Catcher and the Rye is probably a good time to end, get two hours. But this would be the most paranoid, sinister take, is that you write a book as a template to encourage people to commit assassinations, and you seed it through all of your assets all over the country, and you may. You have all these people Talk it up. Like it's like the greatest book, a piece of literature and the guy's alienated, but really there's a deeper subtext. And then it self propagates and so that these assassins, when they're done, they became a pause. They become apostles for the book itself itself, which is what Chaplin and apparently Hinckley did too. I don't have the reference, but Hinckley, after the shooting said he recommends this book. So then you have this, this self perpetuating blueprint up to the present day. So we don't even know like even.
- [118:35]
David Lee Corbo
If you're not somebody with those proclivities that doesn't resonate with, with the character in the Catcher in the Rye when a, when a world famous assassin says, by the way, you should read this book.
- [118:45]
William Ramsey
Book.
- [118:45]
David Lee Corbo
If you're at all inquisitive, you go like, what's in that book, man?
- [118:49]
Top Lobster
It's almost like a parasite.
- [118:51]
David Lee Corbo
Dude. I was going to say that. Yes, good call.
- [118:53]
Top Lobster
That there's a parasite that it'll take over a bug or like a. Some and it'll just be like a zombified bug and it'll eat it. It'll eat it as it goes, but this bug will get it to where it needs to go and then it'll just hop onto the next host and.
- [119:07]
David Lee Corbo
Continue to do this. It's a, an aquatic worm parasite and it compels the bug to, to drown itself in a body of water so that it can, it can birth into it. Because it's aquatic.
- [119:16]
Top Lobster
Yeah, dude.
- [119:17]
William Ramsey
Yeah. I had to do a psyche cleanse when I read the book as an adult because I know, because I'm familiar with a lot of the kind of parapolitical history and secret history of the US which is really the real history. Like the history books are crap. But yeah, like I realize how sinister this is like as like some. That that's it. Salinger, it's like he's a front that's like. It's too strange.
- [119:44]
David Lee Corbo
Thank God.
- [119:45]
William Ramsey
Have to read it. Yeah, I mean I think they really tried to change the culture and I think Catcher on the Rise part of it and it's the dissociation and this kind of de. Patterning stuff that they were all investigating is involved in this. Like Catcher. There's no. The poem isn't about that. Like Holden isn't. He's schizo.
- [120:08]
David Lee Corbo
It's fascinating because I am so. I'm so glad that I never read this and I didn't have any ideas like literally coming into This I was a blank slate. And. And this is incredibly fascinating. I don't know if I should read the book.
- [120:23]
William Ramsey
I'd recommend it, but I think it's. I think it's important. I think it, from a certain perspective, you should read the book because it shows what you're being presented with isn't all the whole story. And maybe that's the kind of inoculation, mentally, that people need to have is like, be careful what people are giving to you. Because, like, this I didn't have a choice. You know, this was put on some kind of reading. I didn't. Thank God. I didn't, like, study it when I was 15 or 14 or whatever.
- [120:50]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [120:50]
William Ramsey
But, like, this will let you know, like, some of these people have sinister objectives and they will put really dark stuff into the culture. And so you. I mean, so maybe that's the inoculation is like, maybe I shouldn't just watch every, you know, whatever they're saying is the greatest music and the creation of culture and creation of these people who out there who are influenced. I think the. I've done shows on the Beatles with Mike Williams, Sage. I used to think the Beatles were just a great band. The whole thing's fake. The Beatles are totally fake. They can't play music. Almost everybody who saw those guys, like, they couldn't drum.
- [121:26]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, I was trying to tell my wife that the Beatles is. Is a terrible band and actually an intelligence operation.
- [121:33]
William Ramsey
Yeah. No, they can't. It's unbelievable. That's the whole thing. It's unbelievable about the moon landing. Nine, eleven. It's really unbelievable. But they are fake. Hey, Beatles are fake.
- [121:42]
David Lee Corbo
During those, like, you know, few decades, we really got some of the best propaganda. Our propaganda nowadays sucks. I don't know. It's like Sam says, done by geniuses. Yeah, it was done by geniuses. And we are dealing with the descendants of those geniuses. And much like you have, like a rich family who then produces just an unmotivated offspring, we're dealing with unmotivated propagandists who are giving us embarrassing propaganda. I. I long for the days of old when, when things were.
- [122:11]
William Ramsey
It was like, you're really in minor. I have hard time thinking Salinger was the only person involved in this book. I would accept it if that's the truth. But there's. So when you really unpack it, there's so much here that ties into, like, the mind control and there's other cultural things that, like, I've done in my past research kind of like, is it investigative Journalist like I did Seven Days in May, which you wouldn't think if you watch that movie that came out in 62, you just think it was a good spy movie. But it really was part of the. The whole kill JFK culture. And it was about an overthrow of the government, a coup by the military, which is what happened. And they were trying to seed it in the kind of positive way into the culture. Right. But so it's. A lot of these things are really. This. This fiction isn't as fictional as you might think. This is a weird kind of template manuscript. It reminds me of that book. I don't know if it's Evil Dead. You remember that really gnarly movie. It's like the book. They open it and just horrible things. Things start happening.
- [123:08]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [123:11]
William Ramsey
And it kind of. It's kind of weird too, because my take is different than a lot of people. But I. I really think you'll. If you're familiar with kind of mind control and you read this book, I think you'll feel like it's much more. This book is much more sensible than a topic.
- [123:27]
David Lee Corbo
We got to be careful because it seems like there's only two types of takes when it comes to the book. Either, you know, you're just writing a review on it and you know, it's. It's a good book, but whatever, or it's honestly profound. And then you go on to assassinate a world leader. And so I'll read the book. You have a certain reverence for it.
- [123:44]
Top Lobster
If this book sets me on the path to. I'm not going to say it, but I was going to say something about Taylor Swift. You know what? Forget it. We're not going to. If anything happens, I have been here in my house to say, if anything happens to Taylor Swift.
- [123:55]
David Lee Corbo
I.
- [123:56]
Top Lobster
Nothing to do with it.
- [123:57]
David Lee Corbo
Had nothing to do with it at all. Vault and I do not own a cat. A copy of the Catcher in the Rye.
- [124:02]
William Ramsey
But think of like. Like the sinister kind of propagandists. Like you're talking about seeding the culture and then the direct result is all this crazy stuff that happened. Like it's prop. Yeah. It's incredible. It's funny. I think it has to be seen in the context, just like I said earlier, in the context of this whole culture creation or the breakdown, like the 60s really was a kind of revolution. I mean, if you want to talk about a occultism and the birth of the child and Crowley and the Age of Horus and all that stuff.
- [124:32]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, yeah.
- [124:32]
William Ramsey
Maybe this is part of all that Stuff. And, you know, I've heard that. I've done. People done shows on modern art and how it was just total culture creation. It didn't grow up, come. Normally, it was supported by intel people.
- [124:44]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, I. I believe that wholeheartedly.
- [124:46]
Top Lobster
It's kind of funny, too. Like, I just. I'll just close my thought with this, but, you know, a lot of people today, I guess, like, conservatives would be like, keep your kids out of school because they're trying to show them Drag Queen Story Hour. I'm like, yeah, that's true. But before they were showing them this shit. You know, it's like, it's never been. As a matter of fact, I'd probably argue that Drag Queen Story Hour in some ways might even be less detrimental to a kid's psyche than this book.
- [125:16]
William Ramsey
I think one of the things about this book is, like, when you're young, you don't understand this book as much. So I don't know how. How profound the impact is, but, like.
- [125:25]
David Lee Corbo
I wonder about the. The subconscious mind and what it.
- [125:28]
William Ramsey
Well, good point. Good point.
- [125:29]
David Lee Corbo
And I. And I would say that it's.
- [125:31]
William Ramsey
Maybe that's worse. Yeah, maybe that's worse.
- [125:33]
David Lee Corbo
I. I would say it seems that there is some element of the public school system that is designed to create school shooters. And I think that's true. I think that it doesn't hit everybody, but there's an underlying element to the system that you're going through where if you have a predisposition, maybe if you have, you know, an identity disassociative disorder or. Or some sort of childhood trauma that, you know, shows itself on a psychological level, candidate, the recipient to this. Whatever this undercurrent is that flows. There's surface level that happens in school, but then there are psychological things that happen, and I think that they're designed to, if you are the right candidate, turn you into a school shooter. Man, that felt heavy.
- [126:16]
William Ramsey
Yeah.
- [126:16]
Top Lobster
This is a dark episode.
- [126:17]
William Ramsey
No, no. Yeah. No, it's deep. I think one of the things I was thinking about recently, like, in the last couple weeks is, like, we are American citizens. We've grown up in this culture, but we've really been bombarded in different things from different areas through things that are either top secret, be above top secret, or things that. And we're kind of like in, I don't know, an ant farm or something, where we just don't have control. So the psychological impact of even that, like, we didn't have. I didn't have control over Covid. Like, we just went through it. Like that was intense. Yeah, like the, the alienation, isolation. You want to talk about mind control and hypnotism, they made you stay home and not talk to anybody. Like this is like the predicates for being suggestible, right? Because you're at home and you're just watching tv. And Fauci, who's really a bioweapons expert, he doesn't know. He's never practiced medicine in a clinical environment, like in a. In a hospital. So I think that this is. These are like these components of this stuff that hopefully it's really a matter of our survival is understanding the stuff that the moon landing's fake, JFK was murdered by other people in the government, that these, some of these cultural icons are malevolent. Like this is this book. Read it as an adult. It's terrifying. Dude, it's really terrifying when you think that 65 million copies have been sold.
- [127:44]
David Lee Corbo
That's insane.
- [127:46]
William Ramsey
That's right out of Grok. I did that today they're pulling that.
- [127:50]
David Lee Corbo
That's all the public school system, they're buying it in mass and they're indoctrinating kids for generations with it.
- [127:54]
William Ramsey
And man, I mean the total monstrous, mentally ill loser.
- [127:58]
David Lee Corbo
You got to ask yourself why in the hell the public school system is buying so many copies of this. And this is part of everybody's curriculum growing up. And it is such an underwhelming book in one aspect because it's kind of like. Like we talked about, there's no moral conclusion, there's no nice wrap up. It's not good storytelling in that way. And on the other hand, it's a book that's championed by like how many assassins of world leaders. So.
- [128:23]
William Ramsey
And yeah, Gates and Bush, like two of the most. Dude, you sinister people on creation. Like, wow.
- [128:29]
David Lee Corbo
That like just those. What I just said there alone should make you go, what the hell is this? And, and why is this happening? And I don't know.
- [128:38]
William Ramsey
And we've seen, like I mentioned earlier, like we've. I know, like I've studied. I know I haven't done a full, you know, analysis of the tapestry of American culture, but I've looked at certain things and, and Kinsey was a liar who promoted a lot of the stuff that kind of is emulated in this book. Book and was supported by the Rockefeller. Like they gave him so much money and the guy was a total pedophile monster connected to Kenneth Anger and I mean, just lying. And the people still reference the sexual life of male or whatever as a legit book and it's just non scientific trash.
- [129:13]
David Lee Corbo
It's not the first time that. Who is it? The.
- [129:15]
William Ramsey
And it's actually one of the interesting things to. Sorry to interrupt. But one of the interesting things about Kinsey and Crowley, believe it or not, you would never put. Well, there are connections because Kinsey went to the abbey of Thalima in Sicily because he admired Curly and he wanted his diaries. And you can see that in Children of the Beast. But their conclusions about sex life is the same. So it's like there's no restraint there.
- [129:39]
David Lee Corbo
It is.
- [129:39]
William Ramsey
So everything's up. Pedophilia, gay, bisexual, you're just.
- [129:44]
David Lee Corbo
Nothing is.
- [129:46]
William Ramsey
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
- [129:48]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. Nothing is forbidden. Everything is permitted. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [129:51]
William Ramsey
So they came to the same conclusions. The fake scientism of Kinsey, who really is used as the start of the whole homosexual movement. Like it's really incredible. You couldn't write this.
- [130:02]
David Lee Corbo
Holy crap, man.
- [130:04]
William Ramsey
You have to. We have to do a show on Children of the Beast because.
- [130:07]
David Lee Corbo
Yes we do.
- [130:08]
William Ramsey
Kinsey influenced a guy who actually peed piano at the OTO where Jack Parsons was a member, man. Oh my God. It's called the Mattachine Society. His name was. I can't remember right now.
- [130:22]
David Lee Corbo
Well, we'll have to run it back and. And talk about that because that sounds.
- [130:26]
William Ramsey
Yeah, it's unbelievable. But he was like the. The one of the first people. His name was Harry Hay. Look up Harry Hay. And literally on his own bio, he was playing the organ at OTO meetings. Crowley OTO meeting.
- [130:45]
David Lee Corbo
Incredible. That's one of the things. So whenever we get into these shows, these conversations always branch off into like a million different directions. It's because they're all connected. They're all connected. And it's like the study of this thing. I don't know what to call the overarching sort of connective tissue. Right. Charlie Robinson with the whole like control. That's a good analogy for it. But it's just the nature of talking about this thing is you. You end up in its many tentacles and. And the ways in which it branches out. It's like it never ends. So you've definitely.
- [131:19]
William Ramsey
Right. So I think you could see this book like you said, the tentacles connections. Maybe it's more close to this whole Kinsey and the sexual life of male. I don't know when that came out, but imagine if they both came out because the sexual. It's totally easily disprovable. And the ideas that. From that are in this. That Half of married men are gay. That's baloney if that's the suggestion. Right, right.
- [131:40]
David Lee Corbo
That's even a. And you still. People have really taken that. That notion and run with it. That's something that I see people talking about today. It's 2025, and you'll still see people going back and forth about that. And that's obviously something that the lgbt, what the hell ever community has strapped on its armor.
- [131:56]
William Ramsey
Yeah, they have. That's why they like the fake. The fake stuff of the Kinsey. Wow. So the sexual behavior bear of the human male was 48. So before this. So like, literally the catcher in the rise aping this nonsense that came out from Rockefeller. Kinsey.
- [132:16]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. Only how many years later?
- [132:19]
William Ramsey
Three. Three.
- [132:20]
David Lee Corbo
Three years later. That's not even like.
- [132:22]
William Ramsey
It's not.
- [132:22]
David Lee Corbo
That doesn't feel like it's enough time for a dude to study the works and then write the books. It feels like it's all coming out. These ideas permeated culture all at once. Once.
- [132:32]
William Ramsey
Yeah.
- [132:32]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [132:33]
William Ramsey
It's not. It's artificial. Like, it's not.
- [132:35]
David Lee Corbo
It is artificial. Yeah. It's been injected into it artificially.
- [132:38]
William Ramsey
There was a good woman, a woman. I forgot her name. I think she's passed away, but she really took apart Kinsey, her name. Ed Opperman interviewed her. I can't remember.
- [132:49]
David Lee Corbo
That's a lot of that. A lot of that old psychology, too, that we go by, like, Freud, and everything is about, like, sexual repression. It's like, you know, I don't know, I'm afraid of the dark. And it's like, well, you must want to bang your mom. So it. That kind of is.
- [133:02]
William Ramsey
We.
- [133:03]
David Lee Corbo
We allowed that to run the narrative for a long time, and now it seems that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny whatsoever. It's very fun.
- [133:09]
William Ramsey
What's the. What's the authentic gay population? Well, it's probably growing now because of the huge, you know, propaganda. But I think really in the 50s, it was very small, like, 3 to 5% population. But then like Kinsey saying, oh, half of the people have a gay experience or whatever. And, like, without attribution, I can't remember that woman's name. I'll have to find it. Anyway.
- [133:32]
David Lee Corbo
Well, now the. The. The numbers might be half when you inundate them in public school with, like, this.
- [133:38]
William Ramsey
Yeah. You know, they. They programmed kids to find out their sexual orientation, like, when they're 10 or 12, like.
- [133:45]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah.
- [133:46]
William Ramsey
It's more of that suggestion thing. Right. So, like, why even bring it up?
- [133:50]
David Lee Corbo
My. My son is 9. And I had to have this conversation with him because I heard something on a YouTube video where a guy's singing a song and he's like, I'm gonna tell you all about me, like what's my age, where I grew up, my, my gender identity. And he goes on to list a bunch of other benign stuff, but that one gender identity stuck out to me. And I said, you're not watching that channel, you're not listening to that guy. And he's like, what's wrong with that? And it's very difficult because it seems on its face inconsequential. So he's going to say, I'm a boy or a girl. And I'm like, you don't need to have him tell you. You can hear his voice. You know, he's a boy. You shouldn't even be at all speculative about the nature of are you a boy or are you a girl? You can tell by looking and listening to a person. And. But now these, these things are just part of where it used to be obscure. Maybe you read a book like the Catcher in the Right, now they're actually doing gender studies. Now the entertainment is geared that way too. And so fully, fully penetrated the culture.
- [134:48]
William Ramsey
Yeah, it's incredible. Like we're, we're living through kind of like a wasteland of this kind of past, you know, like still being influenced.
- [134:58]
David Lee Corbo
By it to this day, but just on a larger scale. Because it used to be. It goes back to that analogy that I used, or the MK Ultra victim strapped in a chair with his eyeballs peeled open and he's on L LSD and he's being propagandized. Now we are self administering these, these drugs and we're self propagandizing.
- [135:15]
Top Lobster
Let me ask you this, do you think it's possible to detox a culture from this? Because a lot of, a lot of the policy now I, and I know, you know, whatever Trump may be or Elon may be, I think it's significant with like USAID going through these news organizations and just defunding them. Like we're seeing, you know, the BBC was given $8 billion to propagandize the people. Reuters was given like $25 million and it says specifically for social engineering. That's no longer happening. So it's like, okay, we've removed that, maybe we'll clean up the food source a little bit. Is it possible to rehab a nation, to detox a nation to get back to some stasis, some sort of level, or has the damage Already been done.
- [136:06]
William Ramsey
Well, I think the damage has been done, but getting back to it is, I think, you know, why people voted for Trump. So hopefully, you know, I don't know if there's really a static culture. You're either rising or falling. So hopefully we can roll back a lot of this stuff. But, yeah, I mean, I think acknowledging these things and talking about them is really the first step. I think that's really. What's the famous line, Culture is upstream from politics, downstream. Yeah, no, culture is upstream. Like, you're. The culture influences politics, not the other way.
- [136:44]
Top Lobster
Well, oh, well, actually from Breitbart was. It was downstream from politics, but I agree. I think it's the opposite.
- [136:49]
William Ramsey
Okay, well, I don't know what he said, but I'm gonna invert it, because I think the culture influences politics. So I think that. I don't think that RFK would be in power without him being on Joe Rogan and talked about and all these other Hightower and all these other guys talking about stuff RFK was talking about. And same thing with the intel and all this other stuff. Like, so that's part of the culture, is the conversation. Things like, they're happening now. So I think that exposing all this stuff and. And putting it in perspective, I think is very worthwhile. Like, people say, oh, you're not facilitating change or doing too much talking, but if you can know that Kinsey's a bunch of baloney, which he totally is. Like, you read how he died. I don't know if you know that, but it's not somebody you'd want to have teaching you about anything. But if you know that this is baloney, then you're not going to, like, send your kid to public school. I haven't listened to all that stuff. Right. And so then it's just a waste of money. People won't put money into it, and all the stuff will kind of fall down, like, hopefully. So I think that you can reset the culture.
- [137:54]
David Lee Corbo
I wonder if it would take what got us there in the first place, which is a slow propagandizing either. I'm open to the idea that you could have the. The curtain ripped back all at once. But I also recognize that as far as controlling hotter tempers, it would be better for, you know, a governing body to expose us to it the same way we got there, which is long and slow.
- [138:21]
William Ramsey
The frog has already been boiled, so I don't know.
- [138:25]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [138:25]
William Ramsey
Figure out how to make the soup.
- [138:27]
David Lee Corbo
I think that if the frog has already been boiled, they are seeking to Make a meal out of it. Not to reverse. Propagandize us. I mean, they might make it look like that, but I don't think they worked all these generations to get us to this point just to go. That was a close one.
- [138:43]
William Ramsey
Yeah, a good point. I think that they created one of the greatest propaganda events in human history, outdoing the Nazis and the communists because this USAID shows how the tentacles were in the millions of money. And so all these people were freaking fake. So you could go to Politico or wherever and they're all being puppeteered. Like, not just like, you know, WURLITZER with like 100 keys. You're talking about millions. Yeah, like it's a stunt. Like, you have to marvel at it. Like, wow, this is the beast system.
- [139:17]
Top Lobster
The funny, the funniest part about is that it's like, it's George Soros and this shady billionaire. It's like. No, it's. It's actually you, stupid. You're paying for it, right? You paid for your own to eat your own shit.
- [139:30]
William Ramsey
Yep. No doubt.
- [139:31]
Top Lobster
It's all right, let's bring it in for a landing here. As we've been.
- [139:35]
David Lee Corbo
We've already.
- [139:36]
William Ramsey
Yeah, I think so. I think it's a perfect ending. We financed our own tyranny. We financed our own servitudes.
- [139:44]
David Lee Corbo
We've been paying top dollar to chew on our own turds.
- [139:49]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Incredible. William Tell. Tell the people again where they can find you. I'm sure you. You'll be back on again to tell them again where they can find you. But tell them again now.
- [139:57]
William Ramsey
Yeah, it's William Ramsey Investigates. I have over 1300 episodes, so you can see on a wide variety of topics. Books and different subjects. I kind of make it so people can find maybe something they're interested in on different subjects. So that's. You can find on itunes, Spotify. And then I have five books. You can have signed copies if you want from my website. My global death cult is reselling. I guess somebody's talking about it or something's going on where people are referencing it. So I wrote that in 2021. My most recent is about SFK. That's the Smiley piece Killers, which does go into. What's his name? I got friends in low places. There's a chapter Garth Books. Garth Brooks. Thank you. I can't remember his name. Thank God. And then I have five documentaries on my Patreon, which are probably all they. I can tell you. They were all micro budgeted, but I think the information is really good. And One of them on Smiley Face Killers is three and a half hours. So I put a lot of research into that. So I really kind of made my bones kind of just being a researcher. I think it's really true.
- [141:02]
Top Lobster
Nice. Nice. Perfect. Well, again, I hope. I hope you see a little bump from our audience. They go over to your show and check your stuff out. And once again, thank you for coming on. I'm gonna go walk aimlessly thinking about this child's book that I probably read.
- [141:17]
William Ramsey
I don't know, hopefully somebody will read it and say everything you. You take out of this book is wrong, because I would want to be wrong. But like, my reading of, like, the Split Brain and the trance and how negative he is and nihilistic, I think it's worse than. Than.
- [141:32]
Top Lobster
No, you're not wrong, man. You're not. All right, guys.
- [141:37]
William Ramsey
All right, guys. Cheers. Thanks for having me.
- [141:39]
Top Lobster
Absolutely. All right, guys. Don't forget to obey. Submit. Comply. We'll see you guys later.
- [141:44]
David Lee Corbo
The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is a podcast.
- [141:48]
William Ramsey
Long box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real.
- [141:54]
David Lee Corbo
If you can persuade people that what.
- [141:56]
William Ramsey
They see with their eyes is what there is to see to go. Because they'll laugh in the face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what's happening. And they have.