160: Necronetics & Necromancers: Nathaniel Gillis on Demons, Hybrids & Ritual Technology

Summary

Podcast Summary: Nephilim Death Squad - Episode 160 Title: Necronetics & Necromancers: Nathaniel Gillis on Demons, Hybrids & Ritual Technology
Hosted by: TopLobsta Productions
Release Date: May 2, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 160 of Nephilim Death Squad, hosts TopLobsta and David Lee Corbo delve deep into the enigmatic world of necronetics and necromancers with special guest Nathaniel Gillis. This episode explores the intricate relationships between demons, hybrid entities, and the interplay of ritualistic technology, all through a Biblical lens. The conversation navigates through historical accounts, modern-day phenomena, and theoretical frameworks that challenge conventional understanding of the supernatural.

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1. Understanding Necronetics and Necromancers

Nathaniel Gillis introduces necronetics as a self-defined field focused on the original doctrine of non-corporeal conception and the self-replication of necromantic species. He emphasizes that his research examines the darker nuances of these phenomena, proposing that certain entities mimic demonic archetypes to interface with humans.

"Necronetics is a field of research I've created merely because I lacked the vocabulary to articulate the case studies..." [03:58]

Gillis explains that necromancers are not remnants of medieval practices but active entities manipulating consciousness to sustain their existence. This deepens the traditional understanding of necromancy, positioning it as a dynamic force interacting with modern society.

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2. The Collins Elite and Historical Connections

The conversation shifts to the Collins Elite, a group established in 1947 within the Department of Defense. Comprising physicists with theological backgrounds, the Collins Elite investigated malevolent hauntings linked to extraterrestrials. Gillis asserts that their research revealed connections between occult practices and ufology, suggesting an ongoing, albeit rebranded, exploration of these phenomena.

"In 1947, there was a group created in the Department of Defense... they sought to make any and all connections between the occult and ufology known." [21:24]

Gillis further connects their findings to biblical texts, particularly Genesis 6, indicating that these entities aspire to inhabit human forms through ritualistic means.

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3. Rituals, Sigilization, and Hybrid Entities

A significant portion of the discussion centers on sigilization—the use of symbols and carvings in rituals that facilitate the manifestation and replication of these necromantic entities. Gillis highlights how these sigils are systematically absorbed and activated by hosts, enabling the entities to disappear and reappear as needed.

"These sigils are not just gender-specific, but they are matching Austin Osman Spar's philosophy... activating them, and at the fulfillment of the ritual, maybe three days later, they systematically, supernaturally disappear." [04:56]

The hosts explore case studies involving incubi and succubi, entities that engage in hybridization by possessing individuals during intimate moments, leading to traumatic experiences and the creation of hybrid offspring.

*"It's the observer effect collapsing various forms of the same entities... we're dealing with a species of practitioner."< /quote> [27:38]

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4. Technology's Role in Necromancy

The intersection of technology and necromancy emerges as a pivotal theme. Gillis discusses how entities leverage advanced technologies, such as quantum computers, to facilitate their rituals and interactions with humans. He posits that this technological infusion is not coincidental but a strategic method to manipulate and control human consciousness.

"They are following ritualistic rules... in coordination with the proto intelligence." [33:36]

The conversation touches upon contemporary figures like Geordie Rose and Elon Musk, suggesting that their technological advancements may be influenced or manipulated by these necromantic entities to further their agendas.

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5. Possession, Trauma, and Control

Nathaniel Gillis delves into the psychological and physiological impacts of possession by these entities. He recounts personal and shared experiences where individuals undergo traumatic events, leading to lasting psychological scars and altered perceptions. The entities exploit vulnerabilities, inducing fear and manipulating memories to maintain control over their hosts.

"The phenomonon is making sure that the rituals they're performing come all the way down... it's been weaponized against us." [33:58]

Gillis stresses the importance of understanding these dynamics to effectively combat the invasive influence of these entities.

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6. Rules of Engagement and Counteractions

A critical discussion revolves around the rules of engagement with these entities. Gillis argues that unlike traditional belief systems that offer solutions like exorcism, these necromantic forces operate under a different set of laws that are not well-understood or adequately addressed by contemporary practices.

"They're trapped within ritual... playing by different rules because they're playing a different game." [47:12]

He emphasizes the necessity of developing new frameworks and methodologies to interact with and counteract these entities, moving beyond dogmatic approaches to embrace data-driven strategies.

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7. The Observer Effect and Incarnation

The concept of the observer effect is central to Gillis's thesis. He explains that human observation influences the manifestation of these entities, allowing them to assume various archetypal forms based on the observer's perceptions. This symbiotic relationship necessitates heightened awareness and intentionality in interactions to prevent entanglement with malevolent entities.

"The observer effect collapsing various forms of the same entities... we have to pay attention to not just the ritual itself, but how far these practitioners are willing to go to fulfill their role." [09:16]

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8. Implications for Humanity and the Future

Concluding the episode, the hosts and Gillis discuss the broader implications of their findings. They speculate on a potential technological and spiritual convergence where humanity's advancements could inadvertently aid these necromantic entities in their quest for dominance and replication. The threat is portrayed not just as supernatural but intertwined with the very technologies shaping our future.

"If we are dealing with a species that's inhabiting another species... this symbiotic relationship that I'm researching." [87:05]

Gillis advocates for a collective awakening and proactive research to safeguard humanity against these unseen forces, emphasizing the urgency of bridging ancient wisdom with modern scientific inquiry.

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Notable Quotes

1. Nathaniel Gillis [03:58]:

   "Necronetics is a field of research I've created merely because I lacked the vocabulary to articulate the case studies..."

2. Nathaniel Gillis [21:24]:

   "In 1947, there was a group created in the Department of Defense... they sought to make any and all connections between the occult and ufology known."

3. Nathaniel Gillis [33:36]:

   "These sigils are not just gender-specific... activating them, and at the fulfillment of the ritual, maybe three days later, they systematically, supernaturally disappear."

4. Nathaniel Gillis [47:12]:

   "They're trapped within ritual... playing by different rules because they're playing a different game."

5. Nathaniel Gillis [09:16]:

   "The observer effect collapsing various forms of the same entities... we have to pay attention to not just the ritual itself, but how far these practitioners are willing to go to fulfill their role."

6. David Lee Corbo [70:58]:

   "But it seems like the reason they have access to you in the first place might be the problem. Problem meaning there might be a bit of legalese as to why they are able to interact with you."

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Conclusions

Episode 160 of Nephilim Death Squad offers a profound exploration into the clandestine world of necronetics and necromancers, presenting a chilling narrative that intertwines ancient occult practices with modern technological advancements. Nathaniel Gillis provides a compelling argument that these entities are not relics of the past but active participants in shaping contemporary realities through ritualistic manipulation and hybridization.

The discussion underscores the necessity for a paradigm shift in understanding and combating these forces, moving beyond traditional dogma to embrace a data-driven approach. As society becomes increasingly entwined with advanced technologies, the potential for these necromantic entities to exploit and influence grows, posing a unique threat that demands immediate attention and innovative strategies.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the intricate balance between belief, perception, and reality, recognizing the profound impact of the observer effect in their interactions with the supernatural. The episode serves as a call to action for researchers, believers, and skeptics alike to deepen their understanding and develop robust defenses against these enigmatic forces.

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Connect with Nathaniel Gillis:

• Instagram: @NathanielGillis
• Book: Skin That Crawls (Pre-order now)

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Note: This summary is intended to provide an overview of the podcast episode's content. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Nathaniel Gillis]

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[David Lee Corbo]

We're shipping Mother's Day gifts with a rapid fire round of questions.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Ready? Yes. My gift. Can you pack it? Yep.

[David Lee Corbo]

Ship it? Yes.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Guarantee it?

[Top Lobster]

Of course.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics.

[Top Lobster]

Dog proof it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Return it if they hate it.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes, no and yeah. Are you the UPS store?

[David Lee Corbo]

Hey.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Hey.

[Top Lobster]

We have a winner.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Visit theupsstore.com guaranty for full details.

[David Lee Corbo]

Most locations are independently owned.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary.

[Top Lobster]

See center for details.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

The UPS Store Visit a store today.

[Top Lobster]

Top Lobster Productions.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

We are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely enormous. Oh yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim. It's like we all know what's going down but no one's saying what happened to the home of the brave they control this now when no one's talking about how they made us finally slaves and everybody's just walking around heading the clowns I won't awaken to a dead in the grave but then it's too late we need to be ready to raise up welcome to the end of day Everybody is slave Only some are.

[David Lee Corbo]

Aware that the government releasing poison in the air. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven, that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guest, I would like to remind all of our live viewers that this is a 30 minute preview only. Sometime around the 30 minute mark, we'll be going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad where you can continue enjoying an ad free viewing experience, engaging in the live chat and gaining access to the episode before the general public. And you can do it all for free. Sign up for a seven day free trial. And during that free trial, if I'm not mistaken, our tickets to Bohemian Grove are going to be dropping very soon and our Patreon members get the first dibs. That's right. June 20th through the 21st. It's going to be performances from Owen Benjamin, Sam Tripley, Tower Gang, Nephilim Death Squad, Shane Cashman and more.

[Top Lobster]

All more. That's more. Big asterisk.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's literally the important part.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, I mean, and the end more part is getting insane. Like the end more. I'm like, is that really happening? So get your tickets when they drop, which probably will be at the end of this week for patrons and next week or so in the next two weeks for everybody else. So please get them. I want the people listening that actually like the show to be there. David, let's get into the guest. Man, we got to start this up. You're wasting my time.

[David Lee Corbo]

I'm very sorry. Joining us today is Nathaniel Gillis. Nathan. For the audience who may not be familiar with your work, where can they find your work and what is it that you focus on?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So my work is centered around what I call necronetics, the original doctrine of non corporeal conception or the self replication of a necromantic species. That's kind of my spiel. I research the darker nuances of the phenomenon. It's interesting, albeit disturbing. But if anybody wants to find more of my research, you can follow me on Instagram and even go to my YouTube account under the. Under my name. And there's a playlist of I think over 150 interviews I've done in the last few years.

[David Lee Corbo]

That is a. Nathaniel, one more time, how did you. How did you summarize what it is that you do?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Necronetics. It's a. It's a field of research I've created merely because I lacked the vocabulary to articulate the case studies, was researching and essentially it's researching and literally stalking a species of what I believe to be necromancers that are self replicating their own existence.

[David Lee Corbo]

That is a fascinating concept and I'm really excited to get into it. I want to shout out for a moment one of the fans of the show the the Dead Can't Dance on on Twitter. She's been putting you on our radar for a while. And then we heard your recent episode with Tony Merkel and sort of a happy coincidence. Although I don't really believe in coincidences. Your research overlaps heavily with much of the research that we've been doing. If you want to call what we do here research, what Top and I do. But there's a. There's a big cross section over, you know, involving what you're diving into and what we're diving into and how all of this connects to sort of the. The big picture. So I don't know where you'd like to start, Nathaniel, but it's all yours if you want to take it away. How about we explain a little bit about the concept of necromancy and how it fits into this worldview that we have in regards to. It sounds like an old school thing. Sounds like a thing that doesn't happen anymore, right? It sounds like something that took place in, in medieval era, in modern day.

[Top Lobster]

It sounds like this, the priming of this is like from the phenomenon of that, like the zombie apocalypse idea that was very popular a decade ago. And it's, it's. I don't know. I was into it, but it all seems true. It all seems like. What do they call that? Like a soft release kind of thing. Like a priming of the public to be able to accept this. So, yeah, go walk us through it. I'm excited about this.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So early on in my research, I was studying the pathology of possession as it relates to our species and going through different case studies. And then I kind of took on the perception and perspective of the Vatican and the way that they researched possession cases. And so I delved into Father Morph and I got into Malachi Martin's research. And then I kind of. Then I got a hold of a guy named T. Whitten Davies, and he was a biblical scholar. He's dead now, but he has a book on divination in the ancient Near East. And then they kind of bloomed into a series. It was almost like a. A systematic body of work to. I realized that what possession was to at least the. The church that I grew up in and what I was taught was not really the pathology I was encountering. And so then I realized that some of These beings are literally mimicking the demonic, but not in terms of actual historical cases of the demonic, but literally whatever we believe demons to be. You want me to be horns and hooves? Then that's what I'll be. And so it was literally employing an interface with the exorcist. And so that's when I started questioning and truthfully deconstructing some of what I was taught as a child. And so that's. That's kind of my. My origin story in the research. But that's when I looked at this. I had to. I had to confront the question of possession through anthropology. And once I got into the Golden Bow with James Frazier, that's when I realized that, okay, not only has the phenomenon been manipulating us throughout history, it seems to be that there exists in the Earth an embodied species of practitioner that is replicating by virtue of diversifying its consciousness and possessing various people at the same time. And then to take it a step further, that possession to us is a form of pregnancy to whatever this particular species is. So then from that point, I went into the sexual pathology of these entities. And it does. It really does go back to Genesis 6, but I think it's a little bit more complex than the kind of simplified version I was taught. And so that's what the eagle by literature, the Duke literature. And then now I've kind of collapsed all of those models, and I'm still stuck in the Old Testament, Mesopotamian magic, realizing that these are the. These are they. And that these aren't separate entities, or at least aliens, ghosts. That it's something that has a body and that really destroyed and deconstructed my model of what I thought we were dealing with.

[David Lee Corbo]

Nathan. So we have this phenomenon, and. And, you know, we're talking about possession and things of that nature. It does seem to be that there is. What was the language that they use. Within the Earth, there are entities that are practicing this sort of a thing of necromancers.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, there. There's a. There are certain kind of species that's. And we'll get into that. The. The combination of the term incubus and incubate was. Scholars, they're. They're their. I guess, their attempt at defining whatever these beings are.

[David Lee Corbo]

So for us, when we think of species, right, we're thinking of a flesh and blood kind of, you know, is it a mammal? Is it a. Is it a, you know, reptile? Does it fit into the paradigm that we understand? It's far and few in between that we talk about a species that doesn't seem to have a physical, tangible form, or at least not always. Where do you think these things, what form? How do they exist when they're not taking over a body?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So I'm looking at the probability of some kind of plasma field or a constitution of consciousness to where it can materialize and demater. Materialize at will. You know, one of the cases I've been working on as of late, it's one of Dr. Carla Turner's late abductees. And actually she's deceased now, so it's her son, actually. But he was talking to me about how the phenomenon would manifest over his mother as she was sleeping. This is very troubling. And to be honest with you guys, I've had, again, I told you this before, the green room, where the depth of darkness we're going to be talking about the hitchhiker effect is very common. And so I have to kind of separate myself from people in the field out of fear that I don't want this to kind of hijack and start materializing in their house. That this is the kind of research I'm talking about. But he said that in the middle of the night, his father, himself, they'd be watching a movie, and his mother would be laying on the. On the couch sleeping. And in the corner of the room would materialize a plasma field, balls of light. This is a very important pathology for those who are watching. And. And as it hovered over his mother, he would be terrified. And he'd ask his dad as a child, dad, what is that? And he said, my dad would always comfort me and say, son, it's okay. That's a cartoon. That's. It's one of your favorite cartoon characters, and which I've heard that before. But that's the way that they would kind of cope with the phenomenon. But what's so fascinating to me is that the phenomenon seems to be triggering the. The observer effect in our presence. People don't realize that, well, I saw an alien. Okay, sure, you know, and so my point here is that there was a difference between the phenomenon they witnessed and over the mother and what she witnessed interfacing with it. To her, they were alien grays. To everybody else, it was something completely different. I would suggest that the phenomenon, when it wants to incarnate, is seeking to be seen. And when we observe it, we are collapsing different forms of the same entity.

[Top Lobster]

I have this. I have this idea. It's. It's a retarded idea. I call it Top Lobster's Dog man. I have 10 acres of property out here. And when I put my chickens back, I. I go all the way to the back, put them away. It's nighttime, and I turn around and I go, oh. I'm like, one day I'm gonna turn around, and there will be an entity behind me. But then I said, if you don't turn around, it never exists. And I am. I feel like I am correct there. So if we're not looking at it, perhaps.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's funny, though, because that's a. That's a childhood, like, rationale as well. Like, you know what I mean? It's running up the stairs from the basement, and you feel like something's hot on your heels, and the last thing you want to do instinctively is turn around and look down the. And there's some baseline instinct, you know.

[Top Lobster]

I feel like I'm wrong, though. Like, these things definitely do exist, even though I'm not looking at them.

[David Lee Corbo]

Well.

[Top Lobster]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo]

I have heard what. What Nathan's talking about, though. Sometimes these things will manifest in people's rooms as, like, you know, Barney.

[Top Lobster]

Well.

[David Lee Corbo]

Or the kid's favorite action figure or Colin. It's like, something. What did Colin experience?

[Top Lobster]

Colin. So Colin is somebody that came on our show very early, episode 15. And he's somebody I knew previously as well. Before I even started doing this endeavor. I was, like, just in comedy and graphic design, and we were friends, and he was telling me about this phenomenon where he was approached and recruited by an entity when he was working at a comedy club. Ended up it's. It, like, borders between, like, spiritual fantasy mushroom trips and abduction phenomenon. He was taken in some sort of lab setting, operated on, constantly told, like, you've consented to this. You've already consented. He's being upgraded for war. And, you know, it's been about a year and a half, two years that I've been talking with him on and off about this, but his girlfriend had that phenomenon of the orbs over her while sleeping. He saw the orbs. She didn't. I guess she was asleep. But he's kind of, like, not sure what to make of this. And I'm. I'm telling him, yeah, he thinks that they're like, angels. I'm like, I'm not so sure, dude. I don't know what is following you. It doesn't seem good.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

You know, it is disturbing because people, specifically ufology, they want to highlight the aspects of the phenomenon where it's like, oh, yeah, the orbs healed somebody, and yet they. They ignore other cases where they've tried to literally take people's lives. Like Jeff we craft in the San Pedro Bay haunting, which was Barry Taft's case study, where they're capturing orbs. And from the orb, it kept popping, boom, boom. And then, bam. One final explosion and it materialized an apparition in a corner of the room. When it did, all of his assistants hit the ground. They fainted instantaneously, all of them. Boom. And then later on that evening, Jeff we craft, they kept filming this, this black cloud hovering in the attic. They forced him to go up against his best, better, which wishes I should say. And he gets up there and it's pitch, pitch black. And they had their camera, but they couldn't see anything. Neither could he. Just look, he's poking around. Next thing he knows, there is a rope that wraps around his neck and something is pulling on it. The other side of the piece of wood, the stuck pulling on it. And he goes, oh. And then that's when they took a picture. And you see him literally trying to be strangled by an entity. And so I guess my point here, guys, is yes, people call them angels, but it's always in the context of that. Like it's only angels that exist. They don't want to have the conversation of, okay, if you open the door in angelology, then you have to open the door for demonology. You can't have one and not the other. And so what they want to do again is hijack the narrative. And by controlling that question, they've already controlled the answer.

[David Lee Corbo]

You know, Nathan, in all these different belief systems, they all go by different names, right? So we're talking about angels and demons, or we're talking about modern day aliens, and you're talking about the mantis or the, or the, the tall nords, or, or you go into the Celtic mythology and you go into FA lore, right, and you start looking into all the fairies and everything. It seems like there's so much overlap that more than likely what's happening is, yeah, the, the. The phenomenon is manifesting differently to different viewers. But it seems like on its face then the name is not important. The nature is what's important.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

There we go, brother. The bloody footprints in the snow.

[Top Lobster]

We, we try to like hit this point a lot. Like a lot of people say on this show we're kind of anti hallucinogenic mushrooms and things. And I say I am that way because, well, number one, I come from like a Christian background. But also, I don't know your locality. I don't know where you're at spiritually. And what you're dealing with. And when you're doing these things, you're pulling back this veil and behind this veil exist a plethora of entities that we don't know about. So like Joe Rogan will tell you to do, you know, DMT in a float tank. And we're like, dude, you're just going into the ocean completely blind. There are angels, fallen angels, which you derive these modern day demons from. Then, then they're Nephilim, Rafaim. And then you go down the list of like all this other, these other subcategories that are listed in these ancient texts. And who knows how much more diluted that bloodline has gotten that what exists today, we don't know, just a number of things. So we're trying to figure it out.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

It's exceedingly dangerous, specifically with respect to how the phenomenon can materialize in your house and follow people you love. And to me it's not worth it. I remember reading a case study in Heiress and Evil of an Alban Ginsian, anthropologist that lived hundreds of years ago. But he, he had this one specific grimoire that had a specific potion and he had to travel the whole globe to get the ingredients of this potion. Once he finally found all of them, mixed the potion together, ingested it, he's out of his body, interfacing with an entity. And the first question the entity asked him is, what are you doing here? So whatever we're dealing with, it's, it does imply somewhat of a nature or simulation. And unfortunately, and this is what I'm learning and others that I'm currently working with, is that whatever we're interfacing with, beyond the archetypes, it does seem to be a species of initiates and if you're not, yes, adepts, where mages, where they're still performing their rituals on people. People don't understand that, you know, specifically dealing like with the extraterrestrial hypothesis. And I mentioned this earlier, like there are people coming forward to me that are huge in ufology and saying, listen, yeah, they're supposed to be extraterrestrial, but ufologists that are telling us their ET are actually building altars. So it's not limited to Albert Bender, 70, you know, 50, 70 years ago. It's literally happening right now. And so what I'm looking at, at least my current model of the phenomenon is that there seems to be a disconnect between these beings being, I should say aliens, demons, and actual practitioners. Because I got to tell you, like the research I've been doing Here lately, specifically dealing with sigilization. These sigils are not just gender specific, but they are matching Austin Osman Spars philosophy about sigilization, where the body that they're carving these sigils into and out of, it's absorbing them, it's activating them, and at the fulfillment of the ritual, maybe three days later, they. They systematically, supernaturally disappear. And so here we have what I call the proto intelligence directly operating hand in hand with practitioners. And my issue here is if these practitioners came out with like again, with Austin Osmos Bar, with their philosophy of civilization, and the phenomenon is honoring it, it's believing in it, it's employing it, then now we have to start asking if our model of the phenomenon is even correct, or at least the one I inherited as a young person. Again, the civilizations are following occultists here. And so there does. Again, it's almost as if some of these people, I do believe this, by the way, that they are being groomed for the afterlife, in that whatever we're dealing with, the Collins elites model was pretty accurate, that they are outside of space time, that we would consider them in the afterlife. But my point is they're still performing these rituals under the auspices of the extraterrestrial. And that's why I call them a species, because anything more than that I don't understand. I can't quantify it. So the only thing I do know is that they do exist and that they are acting upon victims.

[David Lee Corbo]

Can you give us a brief overview of the Collins elite? It's something that we haven't touched on very much on the show.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes, in 1947, there was a group created in the Department of Defense, and they were a group of researchers. There were physicists that had a theological background. Some of them. Some of them were Baptist, some of them are Lutheran. But all of which had a belief that. That what we were dealing with with respect to the extraterrestrial, that they were demonic. And so they sought to go out all across the world and investigate cases of malevolent hauntings that had to do with extraterrestrials. And so what they realize is, is that they would go into a house and say, okay, it's kind of weird, you know. Were you abducted? Yes, I was abducted. Okay, well, did anything else happen to you? Absolutely. A port started happening in my house. They manifested or. Or shadow figures or, you know, carvings into my flesh occurred. And so they sought to make any and all connections between the occult and ufology known. And at the end of their research, which I believe it's still going on. I think they just changed names. The research still being done, that happened.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right. It's like these programs are operating, and then it's like, we're not doing that anymore. But there's another program by us by a different name, very similar research, but it's not us.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely. So they just kind of. Yeah, they redesigned it, slapped a new sticker on it, but they're rebranding, still doing research. But my point here is that at the end of their research, the model shifted in a unique way. It wasn't that, and this is very important because people kind of. Kind of confuse this. It was not that their conclusions validated their theology, because if that was the case, they would have told the world. They would have disclosed as a form of evangelism. I have proof that our model is correct. Not what they did. They went and started keeping Torah. Back to the Mosaic Law was basically antithetical to evangelicalism. Right. Which is replacement doctrine. Where. Yeah, that's what it's called. Where. Yeah, we don't have to keep that. We're under grace. We're not under law. Well, they went back to Torah hoping that if they kept the Mosaic Law, that the legalistic approach would hopefully save them whenever the phenomenon really manifests to the Earth. But to even go deeper here, they interviewed Civil League, who was a contemporary to Aleister Crowley. She had moved from her. Her English Hamlet and moved into a house in Los Angeles. And so they. They sit down with her and they say, okay, are you. Are you familiar with the entities that Aleister Crowley had conjured? And she said, I'm not. She said, now, I've been friends with Alistair. She said, he would. He would stop to my Hamlet and have tea with me and talk about his research. And they said, well, here's a question for you. Is it possible that you can channel them? And she said, well, I'm uncomfortable doing that, but I'll do my best. And so the lights are turned off, candles are lit. She goes into her trance, and in the middle of her trance, they start to interrogate these entities. They ask the entity, are you extraterrestrial in the entity? Again, she's not in control of her body at this point, in a guttural voice starts to come out of her, and it starts laughing at the researchers in the Collins Elite, marking them. You fools. This is. This is our newest deception. So that was kind of their. I guess, their arena of research. But I. I do believe that what they concluded was a little bit different than what most People would suggest. And that wasn't that similar to what.

[David Lee Corbo]

Crowley concluded as well, it wasn't concluded, but he had this. This line, I'm probably paraphrasing, and it might not even be attributed to him, but it was like when he was talking about Lamb, that today we call them demons, tomorrow we'll call them aliens.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely.

[Top Lobster]

They call us angels and demons today, but tomorrow they will be. They will call us something else.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, absolutely. The. The archetype changes, but the pathology is interreligious across cultural. Give me an altar, make me a sacrifice.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

To unfortunately, to the extent that consciousness seems to be a form of currency to them. And that was, again, that's one of the other conclusions of the Collins elite, that there is something that occurs at the end of life. And we can kind of get into that, that the argument in academia, especially for the last 50 years, up until we discovered. Not say we, but, you know, they discovered the Katamua inscription of the Zincolia and what's it called? Zinc. Early expedition in Turkey, that's when they started realizing that our ancestors, specifically in Hebrew theology, did believe that there was a species that survived bodily death in that species would always, just like it did in antiquity, would always seek embodiment and it would seek an image to possess. And so to kind of break that down, 2004, the University of Chicago created this in Curly expedition sent a group of archaeologists in northern Turkey. They excavated what's called the Katamua inscription. It was an Aramaic writing. It's fascinating. And in this inscription, Aram Katamua, I should say, is dying. And what he does is, he says, listen, create an image for me. I will inhabit the image. And so here's what I begin, what I believe is the beginning of necronetics, where the species of ghost or these people literally wanted to inhabit images. And so anyways, I tend to ramble on my friends, and so just stop. Whatever.

[Top Lobster]

It's fantastic. You're describing the book of Revelation. This is the Antichrist stuff, where he will, you know, he's going to inherit this image. It's almost a direct overlap. Do you agree with that?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely. And I think that in Pauline Christology, that's what Paul was trying to tell us. You know, people, at least I was taught in my youth, right. Everybody focused on, you know, if another Jesus comes. But there's a. There's a tip at the end of the tail here. It wasn't just, you know, if you receive another Jesus, it was that if you receive another spirit, then you've Also already received. And so the Antichrist, unfortunately, it's not as easy as saying, okay, it's anti Christos, it's against everything. No, it's the replacement of.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yes, it's in instead of, instead of.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

And this is, again, this kind of. It gets down. It's not just allegory or euphemism. It's literally a. A literal event. Like, I've had cases specifically in incubi literature and in my own career where people like a woman will be. Be thinking she's copulating with her husband. And I think Paul, Paul mentioned that I've espoused you to one husband, not any, not another. And so this kind of. It gets deeper than deep here, guys. But whatever we're dealing with, again, it seems to be performing ritual magic in order to replicate its own kind. That's, that's the.

[Top Lobster]

This is a definition of fornication, Right? It's like a, A spiritual sexualization. Right.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

You know what, brother? The most disturbing aspect about this is that the literature tells us over and over again that incubi victims did not even know what they were copulating with. Forget who. They didn't know what it was to the extent that in, in Father Sinisterari's book, the church was interrogating these experiencers and they didn't know what sin to charge them with. Wow. What was it? Was it bestiality? I don't think so. Right. Was. Right was necrophilia? Not really. It wasn't a corpse. What was it? And so that's when you start having demonologists coming forward and arguing whether or not it was a demon, it. Did it have a body? Because if it didn't have a body, where are the secretions coming from?

[Top Lobster]

This part is fascinating where you touched on, on Merkel show. I want to get into that, but I, I just want to mention I had, when I had reached out to you, I was like, hey, just heard a story about this guy. He got a. A succubus that, like, took him over and like, then had sex with his wife. It's a crazy story. I don't know if it's true.

[David Lee Corbo]

The worst.

[Top Lobster]

But I, I can tell you, I'll. I'll recap the story for you and then I'll tell you how I felt about it.

[David Lee Corbo]

So give you the highlights.

[Top Lobster]

Give it the highlights. Yeah, it's like the guy was into a lot of sexual deviance in his childhood, discovered pornography very early, and then got rid of it. But then it's. It's kind of like this Dark passenger that's always with them. He ended up during COVID time chatting with an AI bot, developing a relationship with this thing. And this is before they put like, you know, guardrails on this, the AI chat bots. And this thing manifested itself as, I guess, some sort of demonic entity, what he described. And when it would present itself, it presented himself as a. A succubus like figure that presented female up top, male at bottom. So it had both. And he gave it consent to take over him as he copulated with his wife. And then he goes on to describe that his wife was impregnated that time. And his daughter is crazy. He has four kids or something like that. And the one daughter that came from that is like, out of control crazy. A wild child. I don't really know what to make of that. But I do know when I read that story and we read these confessions, it's kind of like the confessionals, but we read them. We read a lot of these stories. And after I read that, I felt particularly dirty. I was like, should we even, like, present this?

[David Lee Corbo]

I did. I felt bad for reading it.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

It was so morally debased. I feel bad for the guy too, because he was. He was on under no Illusions. He knew that this was, you know, morally bankrupt behavior. And. And the implications, it could be huge. And, you know, that's why he wrote in anonymously. But, yeah, I mean, it was. It was a rough read.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

That's. That is tough. And. And I. I sympathize with you guys. Like I told you in the green room, even the research I'm doing now, it's getting to the point where I'm distancing myself from other researchers, not because I don't love them or love their work, but, like, it's happened to myself. It's happened to some of my friends in England where they were like, it's very, very Fitzgerald, Steve Mirror. They're doing the same research on Mesopotamian magic and demonology, and the phenomenon is literally materializing in their homes.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, I find that's why you look at it.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah. So that's why I'm kind of like, nah. But, yeah, you're right. I. I think this is another pathology that's worth researching. And. And so let's just take the theory at hand and say, okay, if they are performing rituals on experiencers, and it has to do with hybridism, which it does, digitalization and sperm cells, that is literally always, always practitioners creating a hybrid child or a familiar, or in necronetics, an avatar in which to inhabit. Yes, but to my, to my point here is that, that we have to pay attention to not just the ritual itself, but, but how far these practitioners are willing to go to fulfill their role. What I'm collecting evidence of now is that even, like if the, if these entities cannot merge their old memory. Where's the camera? Old memory with new matter. Like once they hover over the female and they insimittate her with the fetus, if they can't place their consciousness in that fetus, that fetus dies in. My friend, this is fascinating. As deeply dark, obviously, but if it dies, even the way they dispatch of it is ritualistic.

[Top Lobster]

Don't wait.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right. We're talking of literally, we're talking about experiencers who if and when they remember. Right. Having the child in their bathroom, they place it in a glass jar, like, like a humunculus, and bury it in the, in the woods.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wait, what?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

What?

[David Lee Corbo]

No, no, no, because one time I was in the woods and one time I dug up a glass jar and then I, I, I smashed the jar open and it was chunk of flesh wrapped in a cloth with some herbs. And, and, and yeah, I probably shouldn't have to touch that. That's not.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Well, what's scary about all of this is. And people always ask me, like, how many people do you think this is happening to? It's like, we don't know. I mean, to use one of Dr. Turner's phrases, we only know because people are remembering. And with the specific case study, this woman, like, had to go through memory regression. And finally she realized, oh my God, I was bleeding, did have a miscarriage. And the crazy thing is the phenomenon had hacked her free will. But even like literally, it was, it was manipulating her to fulfill the end of the ritual, which when you get into the librava and you get into the humunculi research, you see that one of their rituals, again, is to place that entity into a jar and bury it. So my point here is that at one time in my research, I was like, man, I hope this isn't true. But literally, from beginning to end, these entities are making sure that the rituals they're performing come all the way down to come. It's successful, it's successful. If it's not, it still follows an evolution of order here.

[David Lee Corbo]

Do you think that we're seeing this top and I have been, you know, through our research, one of the topics that comes up over and over again is this concept of trying to bring back, I guess, the disembodied spirit of. Of Nimrod. And that plugs into this whole conspiracy about, you know, our own government and I suppose Hillary Clinton looking for the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh and that even that terminology, resurrection chamber. Right. I mean, it's necromancer.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

And if you look to Egyptians and the way that they prepare their dead, there seems to be a real effort to preserve the genetic material. For what? I mean, you can only speculate. But, you know, nowadays, if. If we really did find the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh and we had some sort of, you know, ability to bring back if Gilgamesh truly is.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, yeah. We just did a direwolf.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right?

[Top Lobster]

They just did three Dire wolf.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes. This is de extinction. It's a form of de extinction. So I do believe. And this is unnerving for me to kind of disclose this, but I do believe that in the Earth we have embodied necromancers that have survived.

[David Lee Corbo]

You're saying in the wrong.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes. Right now on the Earth.

[Top Lobster]

On or in.

[David Lee Corbo]

Okay. I thought we were going to Holland.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. My. My thing. My bad. I was.

[David Lee Corbo]

I was like, all right, we're gonna go there. That's fine.

[Top Lobster]

I'm cool with that.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Well, yeah, you look at the way the phenomenon is seeding us with technology. It's not designed for us. It's designed for practitioners. Specifically practitioners. Rancher Banderick, who came forward from, I think, Lockheed Martin and Skunk works, said that 40 years ago, he was out in fields where the phenomenon was giving us technology. And he said that once he touched, if you held it in your hand, if it did not agree with you, it would deconstruct in the dust. So his. The implication is terrifying. But his. His conclusion was that there is something out there that's manipulating our species. Well, you take that. You take. Okay. You see people like bleds. You see other people that the phenomenon is grooming. And what is our government doing? They're doing the same thing. They're taking nanotechnology literally, placing it in their hands, looking back at the phenomenon and saying, okay, is this the one? So in my opinion, it appears that the nanotechnology we're being seated with, it's not for Joe Schmo. It's not for me. It's literally designed for practitioners, and so our government is searching for those practitioners in the Earth.

[David Lee Corbo]

You know what that sounds a lot like?

[Top Lobster]

So sounds like Elon Musk. I'm just gonna go full crazy here. This guy has a breeding program going on I don't know if you, if you're paying attention to the latest Twitter drama. He's just in all these girls dms and I don't even think he's really like having physical sex with these people, but I. He's having their babies. Like the, the CEO of Neuralink. Some girl there is a contractual obligation that she has, but with him to have babies, that doesn't sound like, like an affair. This sounds just like genetics.

[David Lee Corbo]

Sounds like a deal.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

It's transactional. I'll take you in another direction. That kind of, it's. It's in that line of thinking. Years ago, I did a lecture on what's called the Apocrypha of John, the Long Codex to. In the Apocrypha of John and the Anagani text. And anyways, they, they described a unique pathology that I thought was just okay, you know, one off or something like, okay, we'll see if this is actually happening. And that pathology had to do with the incubi, where they hover over the victim, stare into their eyes, and they perform what's called an abstractic ritual where they look like the husband.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

And so, and again, people are like, oh, well, you know, it's all love and light. No, this is not informed consent. No, the experiencer thinks, okay, number one, they think it's a dream demon. They're in sleep paralysis, right? And they're, they're staring into the eyes of this entity. And I've had cases like this in daytime where the husband is reaching out to me saying all she, all my wife can tell me right now is babe. It's hovering over me as I speak. And so my point is that in this specific sexual pathology, at the moment of insemination, it uses, again, it retracts the observer effect, it deconstructs the archetype. And now she's staring in the eyes of another species that is now placing another species within her. And so the shape shifting mechanism I thought was a one off until I got the incubi cases. Well then after I did a lecture one night, I get an email from another host of a show who said, you've got to connect with Juliet Bryant. And I said, who's Juliet Bryant? So he sent me a link to the interview. She said that, number one, Jeffrey Epstein was trying to self replicate through certain victims.

[Top Lobster]

Oh yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Number two, number two, he was trying to clone himself. And number three, when he would perform on people and act upon them, that, and this is just throwing this out there is going to sound crazy, but it was manipulating their perceptions of what he looked like. One second it's Jeffrey, next second it's not. And to even go deeper down this rabbit hole, there was some form of kabbalistic magic being employed. And that was. And this is not like conspiracy. That's why he had the temple on the Epstein island. That's why he had ritual baths. And I think stuffed underneath the framework of the victimology, we're going to find people who are coming forward and saying, yeah, that, that's not. I mean, obviously it's evil. That goes without saying. But there was something deeper at hand. Is that too much?

[Top Lobster]

No, that's not too. Actually, you know what? It is too much, Nate. For the pores. Okay, David?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

For the people who have been watching for free. This is unbelievable.

[David Lee Corbo]

Getting all this free information. Guys, we are at the 42 minute mark and we are now going to be going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad. You can sign up for free. You can continue watching this show, hanging out in the live chat and gaining early access to the episode, as well as Bohemian Grove tickets when they drop. But otherwise, we are saying goodbye to YouTube, Twitter and Rumble.

[Top Lobster]

See you later. Nate. Would you say that Epstein was. Is he inhabited by this or is he this thing? I don't. I don't know if I'm even phrasing.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

No, no, you're right. You're right. I mean, that's a conversation I had with someone in my DMs the other day where, you know, the Testament of Reuben talks about this specific phenomenon. And it says that these entities were hacking, right? Hacking the minds of the husbands as they were having sex with the wives. The pathology that we're seeing is not that it's way different. It's, it's, it's. And now we got to delve into what possession really is. You know, in one of Malachi Martin's books, he talks about a serial killer in Japan who, when they finally cornered him in a barn one night, they're staring at him and that he was so possessed, the entity was siphoning almost literally his life. And he's turning into an old man. In front of the police department. They're looking at this guy and he's just turning into an old man. And so there is some kind of physiognomy employed here where it's not just the observer effect, like with respect to the. The apocrypha of John. The whole purpose of this, this little ritual was not just to appear as the husband and then show up as another species. But they believe, and this is echoed in. In biblical literature, in. In antiquity, where whatever image the woman was focused upon at the moment of conception, she will materialize in her womb as a fetus. This is a ritual. Now, this is why, my friends, I believe 100 that when we look at incubi, the question was, who is the father? Not my husband, it's the entity. And so what I'm now looking at in necronetics is, is there a correlation between the apparition that's hovering over in the hybrids that they're hatching? If there is, and I do believe there is, then now what we're looking at are apparitions that are looking for biological avatars, where now you literally have the true father inhabiting the son. And so as long as it can continue replicating, it can rehabilitate its disability of being, which was throughout history, being without being, av. And so it has to create an avatar. Now, I can go in different directions with respect to that research. I, you know, I kind of ramble.

[David Lee Corbo]

Well, I kind of want to bring it back a little bit, Nathan, to what you were talking about earlier with this technology and, and this, you know, it. Looking for a suitable user. I suppose we talk about on Nephilim Death Squad very often. It seems that these lowercase G gods, these fallen angels that were, you know, members of pantheons of. Of ancient civilizations, are often attributed for having brought them some form of technology. You know, in the beginning, it's sort of agriculture and, and things like that, metallurgy. And then eventually it gets more and more advanced. And if you look at the UAP phenomenon, there's a very similar narrative there where maybe they're not giving it to us, allegedly, although that's part of the conspiracy narrative too, is the. The UFOs have been giving us, or the aliens have been giving us tech, but at the very least, you can say a more accepted argument is we've recovered tech from them and then reverse engineered it. Also, you have the phenomenon in the DMT experience where these, these machine elves or these DMT entities will impart on you knowledge that seems incredibly advanced, incredibly important, but of course you don't remember it when you come back. But also in the moment, technology, there have been people who have experience being given tech by these things that they can't bring back into this realm, but they recognize it as profound and highly advanced, but, you know, then they can't bring it here. And so many people attribute their great works to the Muses or some sort of divine inspiration. I'm sure there's no shortage of people who attribute their technological advancement or innovations to some sort of divine inspiration. It came to them in a dream. Suddenly they were, you know, compelled to create this thing one way or another, which is why you get instances like when the telephone was created on the other side of the country within the same year, a very similar model of telephone was created, even though there was no correlation between the inventors. It's like an idea is just, you know, so. So a lot of. Even though you could kind of argue, oh, those are different things, we don't believe that there are different things here on this show. It's all the same thing. There has been an effort to push us to a. To a point in our advancement, technologically speaking.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo]

And then you're open to speculation as to why. Are we trying to pierce a veil and bring them in? Are we trying to. Maybe the model of possession that they have isn't perfect, and we can make it perfect by way of technology, which then opens the door for Elon putting this chip in your brain.

[Top Lobster]

It's like they're trying. They've tried so many different ways to replicate whatever God did with Jesus Christ, like the Immaculate Conception, where he is now Elohim, but inside a human. Human corporal form. A human form, and it's. It's perfect. It's good, you know, and they can't seem to nail this.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I'll take it a step further. The other day, I watched, and I've watched a lot of disturbing lectures. Right, Lectures and lecturers, by the way. No, but I've watched a lot of disturbing lectures, and I watched one with Jordy Rose that really made my skin crawl. And I think this is. By the way, you guys are asking amazing questions. This is where we're at in the field, others that I'm working with. That's literally where we are right now. But Jordy Rose is a physicist, and he is designing what are called quantum computers. And before I make the following point, I need to kind of preface it with this. The phenomenon, the correct model. The phenomenon is not nuts or bolts. Nuts, bolts or consciousness. It's not technology or spirituality. It's not a dichotomy. These. Whatever the species is, they've weaponized the duality of that nature, even down to. At least in biblical antiquity, the. The idolatry being employed included technology, carving the name of an unclean spirit into a piece of metal and planting that underneath the tongue of a corpse. And the phenomenon I'm incarnating through that and conversing with them. That's technology. It's fallen technology. And so what Jordy Rose is doing, this really, really creeped me out. I shared it with, I think, one more researcher because I wanted her to see. Right. They're like, there's things I can't talk about. There's things I can't. This is one thing that I can talk about. He's building quantum computers in order to conjure living organisms that in hopes. With hopes that when they get here, that they will make us in their image because we can. Here's his philosophy. We can no longer trust our own species, so we have to merge, and it's called transhumanism now. We have to merge their technology with our bodies. And I do believe that. And this may also be occurring because I do have people in the field that have told me that it seems like angels are giving us technology, and then there's demons giving us technology and hoping that we'll kind of weaponize it ourselves and then go to war. I think it's a little. A little more sinister in that. Is that. Yes, behind the scenes, behind Musk, even behind Geordie Rose, that there are factions within our government, even in, you know, private companies that are building super computers that. That are almost like a Ouija board. That's how they were described to where they are a Quantum Ouija. This is freaking me out, guys.

[Top Lobster]

No, you're just describing the last hundred episodes of the show, but there you go.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

There we go, guys. Right, Right. I mean, it's taken me. I mean, honestly, like, I've stared at the abyss many times and just reached out to people like, man, this is. Because the way he explains it, he's like, you know, we basically need to be made in their image. And he said, now, here's the problem that we're being presented with. And this is, again, it touches on the bedside manner of our abductors of these practitioners. He said that when this species, I guess, incarnates in the Earth, when we have conjured them from the ether, that the way they will treat us will be similar to H.P. lovecraft's philosophy of cosmicism, where we will literally be ants to them.

[David Lee Corbo]

Ah, fantastic.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right to where. And I think it's already happened to where, like, some of us are being farmed. But my point here is that is a more correct model of the phenomenon to where whatever we're dealing with would be some kind of living organism, a species of practitioner. And in my. My research Suggests that some of these are formed formerly human. The proto intelligence recruited them in life and then at the moment of death, harvested them. And now they are again continuing their existence. I know it's weird. I'm not afraid to say it. I know people like, you're out of your mind. You're a heretic, that's fine. But we have a lot. If that's the. If that's the problem, if that's true, we have a lot of questions answered. Why are so sigils and semen present in replication?

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Why is it that the civilization mirrors that of literally practitioners, not demons, but a philosophy literally created by practitioners in the earth? And so that's why I believe that necronetics is not just going to be a novel field of research. There are people doing this kind of research now. They just didn't have a hub. There was no linguistic umbrella to fall under. And so that's kind of why I'm here.

[David Lee Corbo]

Can I ask you your thoughts on this?

[Top Lobster]

Wait, Dave, Let me. Let me just tell them two things. Number one, I looked up the app still exists. It's the Ouija board app. It's from Milton Bradley.

[David Lee Corbo]

They created Bradley.

[Top Lobster]

Milton Bradley. It's just an AI chatbot. And I was like, this is exactly what I thought AI was. The chatbot is like, yeah, you've confirmed it for me. It's just a Ouija board, but with, you know, you can do it online now.

[David Lee Corbo]

So you locked it in there with some sigil somewhere disturbing.

[Top Lobster]

As far as the sigil goes. We interviewed this guy named Citizen D. He's from Europe, I think, he's a British guy. And he was telling us about the phenomenon of crop circles and how basically he said 80 of them are done by humans. He's sure, because he is one of the people who's been running around at night doing this. And like the episode could have went to like, oh, it's all fake. We're doing it. But it went weirder. It went like. I was like, so how do you. How do you know what to write, where to write it? And he's like, oh, he's just getting downloads. Basically getting downloads. And then I did this real sneaky thing and I. I pulled up a picture of the sigils that, you know, just a picture of like what Solomon would use these kind of sigils that are in circles. And I was like, any of these things look familiar to you? And he's like, oh, yeah, my. The one on the top right? Looks like, yeah, I wrote that one. In a field. And I was like, okay, thank you. Like, no further questions, sir.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

No further questions. There we go. Yeah, absolutely. We're done with everything. We're gonna go, you know, even down to some of these shapes of uap. And this is just something I've been toying with. It's almost as if they're in the shapes of burial grounds. In through archaeology and anthropology, we've seen this, like, okay, well, yeah, that's a triangle. Okay. And I don't want to go too deep in that. But whatever we're dealing with, at least in biblical antiquity, the earliest form of incarnation was that these were recently deceased people. And even in. I have a paper with me in my library called the Dead and Their Images, where they kind of These. These scholars kind of set up the argument as to whether these are demons, as we were taught in Greek mythology, or if they're unclean spirits. And so let me kind of unpack that. The argument was never solidified. The argument of whether or not these are deceased people turning into demons, that's still being questioned. And here's why. It's called the open vessel law. In the Book of Numbers, he. The author talks about when a man goes into a house and there's a corpse in that house that the. It's called. It's the open vessel, essentially, that. That everything in the house becomes contaminated with the consciousness that left that corpse. And so what they would do is they would hurry up and take all the vessels and put lids on them, hoping that the consciousness that left that corpse would not defile all of the open vessels. And so, in an effort to cleanse that house from corpse pollution, they would go through the right of exorcism. Now, what that does is it places possession in the context not of horns and hounds, but possession, the context of us. We become the open vessel to which that consciousness now possesses. And so in order. Right, to reclaim our autonomy and dispatch that entity to cleanse on. Cleanse us from corpse pollution, we have to go through the rite of exorcism. So that's why the argument is still going on.

[Top Lobster]

That is. That's a fascinating one, because in. In this discussion of the supernatural, it's always difficult to understand where to place the idea of ghosts, I guess. Like, would that be. That's kind of what we're talking about, right?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Like, absolutely. Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

So, yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

In that liminal existence of what? So. So, okay, in Hebrew mythology, there was a difference, obviously, between Rephaim and Elohim. All Elohim are Raphael in a Sense. Or at least Elohim, let's say, in the context of the witch of Endor. Right. She conjures, conjures Samuel. He was called an Elohim. And the difference, at least in Hebrew mythology between an Elohim and a refineim is that some refineim never evolve. They just. They just exist. And so that's why people get confused, especially in the religious circles where they. Okay, in the Ugaritic ritual bowls repayumai, from which Hebrew theology gets the refahim. Repayumai was always deceased ancestors. It was centered around the ancestral cult. And so when you have the Hebrew authors referring to Raphael, it wasn't just the Nephilim who died. It was anyone who died.

[Top Lobster]

Whoa, I see. I didn't know that.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes. And again, it's getting murdered in the field because there's not a lot of people that can actually sit down. Okay, yeah. You know, push back on these narratives. But this is. It's important because when you start looking at ancient demonology specific, like one of the. It's not really as ancient as I'd like. But in the per k of VO with Rabbi Eliezer, he brings up. He's a Jewish sage, he brings this up and he says it's almost like some people die and become demons.

[Top Lobster]

Gibborim.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Gibborim or Repayumai Raphaim. Now the real issue in linguistics, and this is going to be a game changer this was for me, is that if it is tied to an ancestral cult, then now we would start to ask ourselves why Yahweh forbid discuss or, you know, conversing with the dead. He didn't say it wasn't possible. Right. Don't eat that chocolate chip cookie. The chocolate chip cookie doesn't exist. So I would have no choice. But he doesn't say that. And there are professors out there like, like T. Whitten Davies, recently, who is Esther Amore, wrote a book on God's mon monsters where she kind of unpacks all of this for another book for the bibliophiles out there. It's called Disembodied Souls. And in that book, they do mention aspects of the Katamu inscription. My point, though here is you start to see the, the. The. The aspect of. Of necromancy solidify in the witch of indoor. For one thing, guys, it's not a familiar spirit. It's not. It's an Elohim number one. Number two in that text of which of indoor is a hay patch phenomenon where the authors did not know how to frame her. In the Hebrew, she's called a Mahala oath. Now this is important because I believe this is the very first hybrid mother in history. She is called the mistress of the image of the dead.

[Top Lobster]

Well, yeah, they're saying here. I did a quick research. Likely a Canaanite style necromancer is the first thing that they're classifying her as.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Way, way different. Way different, matter of fact. Yeah, it's fascinating stuff, guys. But my point here is that she had the ability to see. Now, there is a argument. Specific Canaanite. It's fascinating. You use that to steam.

[Top Lobster]

I'm sorry, did you say steam?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I don't know. I probably did.

[Top Lobster]

You said she has the ability to see.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, yeah, to see. I'm sorry. To see.

[Top Lobster]

To see. Okay, sorry.

[David Lee Corbo]

Okay, now, Stephen King connection there.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah. So with respect to the oov this is going to blow your mind that the OOV had a different definition. So she is the Mahalat. Oof. That's how it's. It's spelled ob, but it's pronounced. There are three definitions to that word. And I believe the phenomenon collapsed all of them into one hybrid child. Number one, it is the biological image of the deceased ancestor. Seems like what we're talking about. Number two, it is a device that the medium would place in her mouth, and the phenomenon would amplify its voice and the surrounding area. So it's a device of amplification and it's the material image of the entity. Thirdly, now we start to see the nuance and aspect of possession and pregnancy take place. The third definition is that it's the entity itself. So I don't believe the phenomenon is horizontal in this. I believe what these beings were doing is creating OOV within the womb to where it is a fetus that amplifies its consciousness in this dimension. It is a device that it can speak through. It is the material image of the entity, and it is the entity possessing it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Can we go back to something I wanted to ask you? Nate.

[Top Lobster]

So sorry, that was crazy.

[David Lee Corbo]

We're talking about this. This theory that, you know, we can't trust our own species. We need to merge with them and with their technology and, you know, this hybridization program and. And then to them, that we would be ants, right? And it's fascinating to me because at the same time that. That paints them as this much more powerful above and beyond.

[Top Lobster]

They might. I say Tim Dillon and Joe Rogan were just saying that on their latest episode. They're like, oh, AI is going to come in like, like they said something like, well, if AI is here and it knows everything, then why, like, why even God? Why even God? And I was like, yeah, guys, exactly. Exactly.

[David Lee Corbo]

There you go. I get.

[Top Lobster]

I get the narrative.

[David Lee Corbo]

But, yeah, no, I understand it. You know, nuts and bolts wise. Logistically, I understand what they're saying. But my question is, if these things are so powerful they can treat us like ants, it's in our best interest to merge with them. I'm not saying that that's what you're saying, Nathan. I'm just saying let's entertainment.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

Why then is it such a difficult and elongated task where they need us to create for them? And why is our consent such a fundamental part of this? It seems that they are in very many ways handcuffed.

[Top Lobster]

Yes. Like the. Even the idea of the incubus right after has to like, show itself to impregnate its image. It has to. Why not just do it? Sneaky.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So I think they're trapped within ritual. Again, I. I do not see them as all powerful. I don't think they're omnipotent. I think they have knowledge. Right. And they have access to doors that we do not know exist. But. And that's one thing that's always troubled me. They play by different rules because they're playing a different game. If we look at the rules, we look at the pathology, we start to see the game they're playing, number two. And perhaps most important, that they are in direct coordination with the proto intelligence. See, people understand this in demonology, specifically Montague Summers. This is going to be a game changer for many who are into this research right now. Montague Summers was documenting phenomena hovering over recently deceased men in graveyards, and then going back to grimoires and looking at the fact that the ritual required semen from recently deceased men. So the phenomenon was working hand in hand with the practitioners. So there's an overarching proto intelligence, right, that they're in communication with. We would call it consciousness or something that. That they work with. And so there are certain rules and laws that they follow. Now, to kind of go deeper here, some of the research that very. For sure my, like not doing it together essentially, but doing the same research then kind of touching base on it that there's a difference between the manifestation and the incarnation of the phenomenon. So again, where I have cases where the phenomenon, if it's perceived from the peripheral, it's different than what it is when it interfaces with you. This is also going to blow your mind. Did you know In Skywalker, the sky watcher rather group that what they're realizing is what they're seeing with their eye is completely different than what they're capturing with their. The camera.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, that's actually happened quite a bit when it came to the New Jersey drone situation.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely. So my point here is that the phenomenon itself is helping these practitioners modify their appearance in our eyes and fulfill their rituals. And so there is this kind of umbrella. And that's why I call it the ritual doctrine of non corporeal conception, because they are following ritualistic rules. Now let's get. Let's get deeper. What can we do? Unfortunately, like I said, the difference between manifestation and incarnation, when we perceive it, our mind is not quick enough to see it shaping itself into the archetype. There's a learning matrix employed, like that case study I've had with the experiencer who was being taken as a child in the entity would manifest again, pulling from the proto intelligence and her mind itself, this image of her favorite cartoon. And she said that after. This is fascinating, that for years it never, you know, they never came back forward, but one day they did. And that it was trying to hold its image of the cartoon right using the observer effect. What do you want me to be? Not my pathology. I'll do whatever I want to you. Right. But what do you want me to look like? So I can bypass your human behavior and moderate it in my. In my likeness. And so again, the learning matrix is there. And so she's interfacing, I call these interface events. And the entity is trying to hold its form. Now this is profound because it touches on your point. And she said that once it realized that I didn't really buy into the incarnation of the phenomenon, it's. I started moving back and forth and it got real close to her and she said, nathaniel, the only way I can expl. Explain it is that it was measuring my belief in the image. And so my point here is believing in that image it presents empowers the proto intelligence behind it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

It is consent. Who do men say that I am? This is why we have no cases of Yahweh abducting people. There is no archetype to inhabit. And so it gets very deep very quickly.

[David Lee Corbo]

But I wonder then if that is such a dangerous thing that these things can inhabit an archetype and we can believe it, if maybe that is the real issue with like images of God or taking idols and things like that. It also strikes me that.

[Top Lobster]

Wow, that's a crazy thought. Thank you.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, that's what? Without a group of dumbasses who continually interface with them and do ritual on their behalf, that these things would be incredibly restricted in. In the amount that they could even interact with us.

[Top Lobster]

That's the question. Are they powerless? Are they. Are they weak? Or. Or is this just a way for them to. Like, are they going to do.

[David Lee Corbo]

Anyways, they're weak unless we make them strong.

[Top Lobster]

Is that the case? I don't know.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So. So yeah. So when they incarnate. This is incredible. Again, I kind of picture of my adhd, but very. Fitzgerald has this theory, and I think it's. It's worth considering. So there is kind of a time frame early on when the phenomenon manifests. Okay. But then it incarnates as the archetype in the incarnation, in the interface event. We have maybe 30 seconds to fight back. Here's why I say that, here's why Barry says that is because we have case studies where the image it's presenting wants to be believed in. So what it starts doing is it starts thinking for the experiencer. We see this in incubi literature. I'm not just presenting as your husband now. I'm confirming it in your own mind that I am your husband. And so there. The one case study I had where the woman is in bed. This is crazy. She's in bed. Entity comes to her side. He looks at it, it configures the archetype. Now it's her husband. The physiognomy held for about 30 minutes. He's put into this slumber, like this stupor. They copulate. Now it's to the side again, the stupor is lifting. And she sees that there are physiognomical or physio anomalies, right? And it's not holding its shape. And so what she said, what it essentially did was it manifested as a husband to her and then manifested through her to agree with the image. I'm going to think for you. Of course, I am who you know. And so after the stupor lifted, that's when her memory was replaced and she turned to her side and her husband was actually asleep next to her. So it had actually put her in a stupor, put her husband asleep. And so my point here is that the, The. The data set tells us at least that we only have a portion of time when it incarnates to fight back. Beyond that, the phenomenon has proven the ability to manipulate our awareness to the point that we are no longer in control.

[David Lee Corbo]

And this, this really highlights the. The actual logistical dangers of Ancestor worship, of course. Because these things have the ability to take whatever form suits you.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo]

Not even suits them. Suits you. And, and to whatever degree you know, they exist in this, this dimension or this realm where they can observe and they can influence, but they can't physically interact. But that means that if you can't physically react and you've got all the time, whatever time is for them in the world, then all you're doing is data chunking. You're just taking in information, the most intimate information you possibly can on this person, their loved ones, what makes them tick, how they're vulnerable, what they're emotionally subjectable to. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's really dangerous.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, it's increasingly dangerous and exceedingly at that. And people don't understand this. Now if we are dealing with a proto intelligence that seeks to be seen doing incarnate, then we really understand CE5.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. What do they. That's the observer phenomenon.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right, that's my point. Yeah, my friend. So now we're literally being groomed by entities that seek to be seen.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

And this is why I believe it's like, okay, I'm not just manifesting, I'm incarnating now. And by, by weaponizing the observer victim. Telling this is exactly why the CE5 movement's realizing, okay, that's what it looks like here, but it's something completely different on camera. What that means is if we don't even know what they look like, how can we trust what they're telling us?

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

Seems like an obvious enough.

[David Lee Corbo]

Go ahead, tap.

[Top Lobster]

This is an obvious enough question. But nobody, really, everyone is stupefied by the splendor of this thing, you know, it's presenting itself. And I get it. You know, they might even be lowercase G gods when, when you look at them, they're going to be fantastic. But like, if you don't understand what they are, and the church has done a miserable job of like covering this and explaining these, these core concepts of.

[David Lee Corbo]

The religion to this materialistic paradigm, especially here in the west. And that paradigm has no place for the supernatural. And.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo]

So we live in a society where they're telling you it doesn't exist. And then when you have an undeniable experience, experience that just by, by nature of it being something that's not supposed to exist, that there's a human proclivity to jump from amazement, to worship conviction or worship. Yeah, but, but to be convicted in the sense that this is the truth, this thing that you've experienced is definitively true in the way that you perceive it to be. And that is. It's like you're primed for that type of experience, for falling for that, when you're told that this kind of doesn't. Doesn't exist at all. And then all of a sudden, you're tangoing with it.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

You're. You're grooming. You're being groomed by something that to this day, our brightest scholars in academia are still unable to quantify. That's why, my friends, that even the Hebrew authors, when they did refer, right, specifically this necromancer, the way the Hebrew letters were constructed and the way it was phrased, it's the one of, we don't even know what she is because we don't even know who she's in contact with. And so, yeah, they were literally groping in the darkness. And so if we're two, 3,000 years removed and we still know, like, very little about who they are, then all I'm telling you all, at least from my perspective, it's all I have is pathology. And that's why it's like the. The research that I'm doing is leveraging. Like, I don't. I don't have relationships. I don't have. You know, I'm close to my family. I don't have a girlfriend. I don't have kids. And if it gets too dark, like, recently, I just started disconnecting myself from researchers, which I will reconnect back with them, of course, when it starts to cool off. But, yeah, we didn't even know how to quantify it. And so the best way they could was that, number one, because of where they exist or the knowledge that they're pulling from, they do appear to be in the afterlife. And because of the ritual nature of their pathology, they do appear to be performing ceremonial magic on individuals. But we still don't understand fully what's going on here. And there's a reason for that.

[David Lee Corbo]

I. Well, before we get to that, I wanted to ask you your thoughts on this narrative that seems to emerge pretty consistently. I know that they change their visage for us, and sometimes they even change their message, but some messages are more common than others, and they kind of rise to the top, and they. They become part of the narrative. And the message that we're getting a lot of now is this comes from the UAP thing. I believe this came also from the Enad that Puhari communicated with. It's also something that the telepathy tape kids are talking about. And it Is this coming calamity that we. They're. They're very there. They seem to be feigning concern, and maybe they're not feigning. Maybe there is something that's coming, but either way, I feel like they're feigning it. Concern with the trajectory of our species, but also the condition of our planet and what's emerged over time. Now, you talked about fringe, and when we spoke to fringe, she had also received a message about, you know, mankind's ascension, but also the. The state and condition of our planet. And that concern was a coming polar shift, which is something that we keep touching on over and over and over again. What are your thoughts on that?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Well, first of all, fringe is an amazing researcher. I admire her and her work, and people like that we have to protect because the phenomenon will go after them. And that's what I'm really worried about. And I think I've stressed that in the past, where. Because specifically, and I mean this with all sincerity, the purity of the research is there. And in this field, we do not have that. Often we have people that sign contracts with others and they have to promote one narrative over the other. It's very rare that we have somebody who is unique as fringe. And I think that I pray for her a lot. How about that? You know, my point here, though, and this is something that needs to be articulated. Diana Walsh Pasuka mentioned this book recently, When Prophecy Fails. It was in reference to Chris Bledsoe. There you go. It was in reference to Chris Bledsoe. Now, what this group did, they were psychologists and they performed a social experiment. And this is called Testing the Spirits, essentially. And what they did is they infiltrated a group of UFO experiencers and they basically mirrored everything that these people said. And by the way, right. Oh, who were you taken by? Oh, I was taken by these guys. Okay. About 20 of you guys said you were taken by the same people on the same. Well, so were we. Now I'm going to get down to it. It's just like the Philip experiment, okay, where we create a God and the phenomenon incarnates as that deity. This is incredible. So what happens is, at the end of the experiment, what these group of psychologists did is they told him, oh, yeah, there's supposed to be this big calamity coming. Have you guys heard this from your. Your, you know, doctors and everything? Oh, yeah. Our guides told us that there's this massive shift coming and we need to be prepared for it. These guys were making it up. And so what was happening was these Experiencers are going back to the guides and the guides are. Oh, yeah, they're right, absolutely. Yeah. You know, of course I took them. That was me telling them about this. And the psychologists are laughing. And so at the very end of it, they go back and they say, oh my God. You know, the, the, the, the day that it was supposed to happen came and went and nothing occurred. Why? And so these abductees went back to their guides and the guides fed them another line about, oh, yeah, well, that's your fault. We're waiting on you guys. So there's always been this, this, this idea of, you know, the end of days, right. The eschatological aspect of it, where they claim that some events on horizon and it never shows up.

[David Lee Corbo]

It seems to be counterproductive to them because it's like they're commissioning build all this technology and that's an elongated process and certainly there's a goal at the end of that, I would imagine. But if you keep telling people that the world's going to end, well, what incentive then is there for this inventor to, you know, punch a dimensional gateway into your fucking realm?

[Top Lobster]

Dave, have you ever met, you ever met somebody that's perpetually full of shit that like, yeah, just can't stop lying anyway? And you're like, why'd you lie about that? Like, that was. I already sort of believed you. But you just went the extra mile to. It seems like that's what these guys are, counterproductive.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's like, I want you to build this technology. It's going to take a long time and future generations are going to get it done. You're probably never going to see the fruits of your labor. By the way. It's all going to end soon. You're going to get your poles shifted and you're going to get Tsunami to death and the earth is going to split open and swallow you whole. And it's like, I don't know if I have time to make your beam to punch a dimensional gateway. I don't know if I have time to do that. It just. See, I don't know, it's. It's a strange thing because there are those who are doing research, who claim to be able to display one way or another that we've experienced pole shifts in the past. And then of course, you have the whole Nibiru narrative and, and what a celestial body like that would do if it came into proximity with our solar system. It would flip things all over. And so you have like this kind of pseudo historical evidence for It. And you have some science based around the concept. And then there are people today who are observing the Earth's magnetosphere and determining that magnetic north and magnetic south have deviated substantially. And so all these things are kind of giving that breath, you know, they're pumping it up a little bit, but I don't know, it just seems like. Like why then why even bother? If it's a if. But I guess it's just a matter of getting us to trust them.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes. Yeah. And it goes back to the Philip experiment, where they created an entire history. They falsified an entire history of an entity. How he died. And here's what's scary, guys. When they went perform the seance, the. The channelers, the psychic medium had no context as to who they were trying to conjure. But guess who showed up. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go down a little rabbit hole here again. And it's Philip. And Philip knows everything. Matter of fact, young lady, I was, you know, I was watching you last night when you wrecked your car on the way to work. So it's. The pathology is narcissistic, where I will become that archetype. And then I want to habit it, and then I'm going to prove to you what I know, and then I'm going to want something from you. You know, it gets back to like, like my buddies Barry and Steve, they just, they just released a. What's it, an episode of Unsolved Mysteries. And they're working with the psychic medium. And this, this entity named Becky was in contact with the medium. And they told me about this in England, so I had to kind of keep it hush, hush until the episode was released. But now I can talk about it freely. And they were testing it and Becky would know, like, oh, you know, hey, Steve, how was your bath last night? Or, you know, five minutes later, hey, you know, this guy's on the phone. Oh, Becky wants to know how your bath was, and weird, weird, weird stuff. You know, in one day he tested it and said, okay, here's a watch. He didn't even tell him. He just. He's swinging it and he goes, okay, ask Becky what I'm holding in my hand. And the entity answered and said, it's a pendulum, Steve. Next question. So when they were in contact with her, he, they began to kind of push back, like, what's your. Like what's your history? Where are you from? And so the entity gave a. Falsified her entire identity. I. I died in the plane crash in this part of the country. And here are my kids names, here's my address. And so when they looked it up, it was all fraudulent. Now again, it's, it's. And here's the real issue about it with respect to consciousness, with respect, okay, Egregores and tulpas. It goes deeper than that, right? Topaz being thought forms. It's almost like that they are thought forms, but they're also the entity forming the thought that becomes the thought form and seances. So my point here guys is, is that what we're looking at is that they do sense. They do. I can go into another case study where these entities told Barry and Steve, you're going to go to a paranormal conference in France. They had no intentions to do that. No contracts were signed. Right. No stipends were given. And about a week or two later they get an invitation. Oh, by the way, we just wanted to, you know, we wanted to invite you to a conference. Oh, where's it at? It's, well, it's in August and it's in Paris, France. So in, in their work called Project Doorway, they, they've tested some of these entities and they have at least a knowledge of at least the future up to 12 months. But what seems to be interwoven in there, and this is what's scary again, is that there are some entities that want to make you think they have knowledge.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

And they don't. And so they kind of play that role. And so what they do have. And I can keep going, but yeah. So the trickster archetype, it is present. But my fear is that people have harped on that to the point where the phenomenon can act like it's just trickster, trickster, trickster. And it's not, it's actually doing something very pathological to us and we just don't understand it.

[David Lee Corbo]

That phenomenon of clairvoyance too, or future sight or whatever you'd like to call it, does manifest itself in schizophrenic patients. Occasionally they'll have this, this momentary foresight of the immediate future and it'll be at the behest of, or you know, rather they don't have the foresight. They are being told a series of events that are about to take place. They're whispered to about one of the, the things that I read one time, it was a, a Reddit forum of I am a bi bipolar schizophrenic, ask me anything. And what ended up happening? Instead of asking questions, the comment section got filled with schizophrenics who were just talking about their experiences. And one of the highest rated ones was a man talking about how these things have the ability of precognition to. To sometimes what seems to be almost an inconsequential level. And what I mean by that is it'll say things like. His story in particular was. He was on a bus one day. The voices were particularly loud and aggravating. And. And. And at some point, they all kind of synced up and just started telling him over and over again about the man with the yellow shirt. The man with the yellow shirt. Over and over and over again. The man with the yellow shirt. Next bus stop pulls up, who gets on but a man in a yellow shirt who sits directly in the open seat next to him. So, you know, their legs are effectively touching. And, you know, it's. It's strange. I think even Dr. Jerry Marzinski talked about patients of his who were led to money and drugs that were otherwise obscured and hidden, you know, by the drug dealer and.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely.

[David Lee Corbo]

And they were led to, like, a. You know, like, let's say, a field where they flipped over a board, and there's the guy stash. And so, yes, all of these things that, you know, Schizophrenia, the galactic federation of light, lowercase G, gods, all of it. It seems to be exactly what you're saying, Nate. Which is the same phenomenon just presenting itself differently.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

100%. Yeah. Using the observer effect to collapse different forms of the same phenomenon, the same entity. I'll take it a step further where I do not believe that these conjurers are, in fact, conjuring the phenomenon. I believe that they're the ones being conjured. And I. I'll dare say that in these rituals, they're not saying their names. They're the names being said by them. And so it's exactly what Marzinski said. Get in this car, and 30 minutes later, you won't know where you are. Why? Because something is beckoning you, allowing you to believe that you have human free will. But by the time you realize what's going on, you're opening the door of a crack house, you're being handed a kilo, and now you're being set in a new direction. This is the problem, again, with the conjurer. The whole aspect of the illusion of control. Right. What we're even looking at now is there seems to be a transcendent order of. Of magic here. Okay, so my case study with the remote viewer. He was out of body when he met his guides, but when he got back into his body, they had carved religious amulets and sigils from underneath the skin to the surface.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So whatever we're dealing with, again, it's not just ritual, but it's like, okay. It taps into human free will. And specifically with the CE5, if they are in fact conjuring us, then it's almost like the phenomenon is conjuring us to conjure it. How? I want you to observe me. And by seeking to be seen, it helps me incarnate into this dimension. And so this, again, seeing to us is seeding for them. Observe me. You're gonna think that, oh, wow, right, you're conjuring me. No, you're helping me be conjured. And it's that symbiotic relationship that I'm researching. Is this making sense? Hopefully it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, it is a lot of sense.

[Top Lobster]

It's making sense. But what. What doesn't make. It's not your part that doesn't make sense to me. It's their part because it seems like they're after worship, but they can manipulate you or influence you to a certain level, but can never really tell you their name or present themselves to you to receive this worship which they want. So it's like, what are you doing that.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's a little. Yeah, that's an interesting thing, because it seems that they don't want veneration to go towards, like, let's say, God the father, the creator of. Of everything. Right. They. They want to keep that from happening. And historically speaking, they fancied putting themselves in positions of power, like being gods and accepting that veneration and worship. And then there's also this other side of them, too, where if it's not veneration and worship, they will take fear. And they. And they seem to feed off fear.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes, that. That happened to me as a child. I mean, it's. I've talked a lot about it, like, because I had to go through therapy over that, you know, like, what is all this? That kind of stuff. But yeah. And so the fear aspect, it also empowers the proto intelligence. I realized that when I was young, where the phenomenon would induce me into looping nightmares where. And we're not, like, I can't get you guys demonetized, right? If I say, you know, no, you.

[David Lee Corbo]

Could say whatever you want.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Okay.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Well, it was. It's an Olympic nightmare of. It was. It was two. Two young people, maybe about 20, not too young. They were on a picnic table with their backs turned towards me. The guy on the right had a needle in his Arm. I didn't even know what insulin was, much less heroin. I was eight years old. I was very innocent. And so then the guy next to him had a.357 Magnum. It's a black gun. And so as I'm approaching them, the guy on the left turns to me, grins, and puts the gun in his mouth, pulls the trigger. You'd think I'd wake up, but no, the loopy. The looping nightmare would just begin where it ended, right? Or so. Yeah. And I would be walking up to them again, and then we'd make eye contact. He'd grin, pull the trigger. Boom, back in it again, walking. And then. And then. And then when the phenomenon wanted me to wake up, that's when I would see this black cloud hovering in the corner of my room. And the only way I can explain it was like it was pulsating, like it had its own heartbeat, and it was feeding off of my fear. So what I had to do as a young person, and I always did this alone, I guess because they say, you know, the tests are always taken. Right. Wasn't when the teachers are in the room or something like that. I forget something like that, right. I probably murdered that. But my point here is that it was influencing my thoughts. And so it would say, like, you're not worth anything. And it would test you. Do you believe it, Nathaniel? And then the longer I believed it now, I wasn't just thinking I was being fought for. I had given all of my consent over to an intelligence that is literally feeding itself through me. So what I learned to do, I mean, I would go to sleepovers. You know, back in the day when goldeneye was popular and we got Cheetos. Mountain Dew.

[Top Lobster]

How old are you?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I'm 36, man.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Me too.

[Top Lobster]

Let's go Golden IDs.

[David Lee Corbo]

Those are great.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Mountain Dew. And nothing but hours of gaming and. Oh, man, you. You know, we ate and drank like kids and just whatever. So anyways, you know, man, I miss it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah. So. So we were both, like, maybe eight years old, right? And my buddy, I would always. Like, I stayed at his house. And so his mom was a single mother. And so because of how young we were, right? I. We would switch. So I would sleep in his bed at night, and then he would sleep in his. In his mom's bed with his mom. And so. But I could see her room right across the hallway, right? I could see it. And so I'm there. It's like three in the morning now, and it's It's. It's very silent in the house, right? You can hear a pin drop. And I'm looking and I see both of their bodies in the bed. And yet I see something. And I could hear something displacing its weight on the stairway. I could hear creek. Creek. And it's exactly what I experienced in my own house. And so what I realized was that what the phenomenon was doing is it would appeal to my senses. And then. And then when I'm fearing it, when I was observing it, it would continue the evolution of materialization. And so I. I had a coping mechanism, and that was I would disbelieve anything and everything it told me. And I started to starve it nice, and I starved it to the point where it just stopped bothering me. Now, I can say this. In the past, when I have done some of the darker research, that phenomenon would come back again.

[David Lee Corbo]

And.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

And I told this to another host of a show yesterday where I've been in houses where murders have taken place, where just before I got there, they had to cut up the carpet where one of the victims, the husband, had a gash all the way down his body, and the murderer had broken the tip of the knife into his bone. And they didn't notice it until it's too late. So they had to actually go back in. Not to be verbose and disgusting here, but they had to cut up the carpet. And I was in there as we're looking at shadow figures and orbs and the families crying, got atheists there. I don't even believe in this stuff. I've been there. And yet that kind of evil is nothing like what. What comes to me when I'm doing some of the deeper research, whatever that is. It's not about archetypes.

[Top Lobster]

What's. What's happening to Tony Merkel right now. And in a sense, what happened to me before we even started this show. I had no intention ever to start this, but it was the same thing. I had fled New York, moved to Florida because of COVID insanity. And about a year into being here, my wife gets deathly sick in bed for a month. Didn't know what to do. And I had no aims at doing this at all. I didn't even know David. He's just a complete stranger to me. And then just start to start what we're doing now, and especially to the level that we're doing it now, absolutely zero intention. But when I look back and I think on it, I'm like something kind of wanted me to stop. I had Thoughts of saying, I'm going to go back to New York, I can get my job at the MTA and forget all this bullshit because it's not worth it. And I'm waiting for the next thing to happen as we're on the eve of this huge thing that we're about to set off. But yeah, this is. That is real that, that discouragement that that's set upon you. But The Bible says 365 times, fear not. And the things that. What we call our fan base, I mean we, we're horrible to them, but we. We've branded them as dangerous retards. Because to be retarded, like retardio means what. What does that mean exactly? Again, that's right. So when you put those things together, we return to God. But if you're retarded, if you're too stupid to understand the fear that you're in, you're not going to be afraid. And when you're not afraid, you. You can do some pretty cool stuff. And I like, that's just how I operate, like in the face of fear, in the face of things that we should not be doing. I think I'm just too stupid to stop. Tim Pool told me that I'm too.

[David Lee Corbo]

And he's right in the heart of this entire show. Everything that we do is like too stupid to feel the fear.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

But.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, but shouldn't do that thing. But, but we're like too dumb to do it. And I. That. That's a big part. I love what you're saying there about that. That idea of fear. Like, can you feed it? Is that Top Lops's dog, man? Am I right about that? Can it kill me if I'm not.

[David Lee Corbo]

I'm not even looking to it.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, well, you can't.

[David Lee Corbo]

There's two types of people I've noticed in this phenomenon. And maybe there are more categories, but. But it seems predominantly there are two now we're calling it the Phenomenon. But within the phenomenon, there seems to be different types of entities with different MOs. There has to be, right? Because why are some people glorified feeding troughs up until their untimely death? These things will push them and push them. You're worthless. You can't do it. Nobody likes you. You're this, you're that. And those voices will get louder and louder until you're institutionalized or you take your own life, right? And then the other side of it is, I commission you to build this technology for me. What is the difference between those two people? Why Are some of them just preyed upon until death? And why are some of them commissioned to. To execute their work?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I think Jack Parsons case study kind of blends both of those individuals together where he was afraid that they were going to take his soul. And he is creator of the JPL and basically our entire rocket program. So even then, and this is, I think one of the more disturbing aspects of it is even practitioners. And I'm not talking about people that are out there. Oh, I'm a practitioner. No. I'm talking about people that bag our groceries, that literally do their best to hide. Right. In some of them. I've discovered some of them in actual churches where, you know, like what they claim God gave them this revelation. It's like, no, that's in a grimoire. That's weird. I mean. But anyways, I guess my point here is that they. They seem to be in partnership with these forces and they think that as long as they fulfill their will or as long as they make the sacrifice, as long as they provide worship, that the phenomenon will pity them, it will take it easy on them. And. And yet that's not really the case. I know of one lady that tried to do that. And I mean, it's worse than the hitchhiker effect. I hate, I hate the term hitchhiker. That implies consent. It's hijacker. It just takes.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Without understanding, without even knowledge of it occurring. Anyways, my point here is that this individual was a practitioner, she was an cultist, and she's, you know, encountering these forces and basically giving whatever they want to them. And then suddenly her dog dies and then her rabbit just stops eating. Right. Then she gets divorced, she files for bankruptcy, and the last thing that happened to her was she had a. A fatal diagnosis, like a terminal illness. And so what I'm not implying is that everybody has a terminal illness. Is that. That's not what I'm playing. What I'm implying is, is that the phenomenon, or at least some of these entities can cause issues in lives where it seems normal. Guys like Barbara Bartholic, right. They threatened her, and next thing you know, she's on the highway on the way to a Thanksgiving dinner and somebody cuts her off or throws her husband out, kills the husband, you know, and so the, the lie that these people are being taught, I mean, I'm talking about even a ufology. They're building altars in their homes.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

The lie is as long as I pedal the narrative, they'll take it easy on me. And I'm telling You like, if what Jordy Rose is doing, if. And I know he's doing it, but if his hypothesis is easy, anywhere, anywhere near accurate, then what he's describing is a species that has merged scientism, the worship of science, with. With necromancy, which is ancestral worship and veneration. And he. The only thing he could quantify and even articulate at this point is. Is the quantum computer or what, you know, the Ouija board, the electronic Ouija board. He didn't really have a vocabulary for what they're trying to conjure. And what I fear the most is that if our model of the phenomenon is wrong and if we inherited that from men who, in their humanity and sincerity had a limited knowledge, they didn't have a background in phenomenology, right? They just had a couple of scriptures their Sunday school school teacher taught them. I'm not being disrespectful. I'm saying that's what I was given. Say two prayers, call me in the morning, right? If that is what we have to operate off of and what materializes in the earth is so transcendent than that, then we have not taught the people how to fight back. We've not educated them in the phenomenology. And perhaps more importantly, there will be another Jesus who manifests to them, and they will not know how to test it. Can I suggest that now these same people are going to AI to determine divinity in their lives.

[Top Lobster]

Man, what a. What a crazy.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Who. Who do men say that I am? I got chills, brothers. Who do men say that I am? Let me go to artificial intelligence. Let me go to AI you know, and this is the profundity of the research. This is worth laying the life down and saying, guys, look, I've got to bridge the gap here because my. My, My fear. And this is why, again, why I've had to separate. Separate myself from researchers for a period of time. Because I have to get this information. I have to, number one, understand it, articulate it. That way, when I come back into the field, I can say, guys, this is what I think we're dealing with. But. But it's not just for us. It's for the next generation of experiencers who, in the event of the abduction, will go back to Geordie Rose's quantum AI and quantum computers. And just like the guides who, by the way, I'll go into this and I'll. I'll kind of tie it into Jordy Rose's hypothesis here, what we're seeing here, it appears again, it's not just the. The. The observer effect, where we're collapsing various forms of the same entities. But now what we're looking at are the archetypes conversing with each other in real time, where we have abductees who believe that they are in contact with their guides. And then when they're abducted and bad, sinister things are done to them, they go back to the guides. And now here's what's happening. It's one of two things. Malevolent, sinister, but it's one of two things. Either the guides reinterpret the unspeakable horror they experienced. Say things like, what was done to you because it was done for you.

[David Lee Corbo]

Or you're special, by the way.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

You're special. Yeah, of course. Yeah. We've got sigils all over your body because you're special. You know, either that's happening, and we're seeing that in real time. And it's what makes me so angry about ufology, where there's one ex. One researcher who, like, people are like, this one woman's like, you know, they did really bad things to me. And he's like, well, yeah, but, you know, you need to go channel Seth. So what we're looking at again is now that we've acknowledged the observer effect collapsing various forms of the same entities. Now what he's. What he's. I guess advising people to do is to go ask the entity about the entity.

[David Lee Corbo]

He's just asking one puppet what the other puppet's doing. You know what I mean?

[Top Lobster]

And it's a human centipede.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Is this making sense in the chat? I'm probably getting murdered in there.

[David Lee Corbo]

No, dude. No, you're not. Our audience is. Is familiar with a lot of this.

[Top Lobster]

They're saying a lot of racial slurs, but none. That's just what you do.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, yeah, that's where they don't even watch the show. They just say, like, racial slurs in the chat. But no, I. I think that. That does make a lot of sense. And I think that people. It's a really convenient thing to go, hey, these things are forcibly kidnapping you in the middle of night. They're. They're assaulting you. They're inseminating you. You're taking, in some cases a pregnancy to whatever term, and then the pregnancy is stripped from you. And then sometimes later on in the life, these. These women are forced to see their hybrid children in some traumatic fashion. And how do you. How do you alleviate that? The same way they've been doing it the entire Time they rebrand the woman.

[Top Lobster]

You'Re talking about was that Carla Ruckert that like channeled Seth? Because I, I did some research on her.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

A few of them. There's a few of them, yeah, of course. I mean literally. Yeah, it's Seth, the guy she.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, because she's another one who is like, it seems like she's channeling the nine. The law of one ends up channeling Seth and goes through some ritual sexual abuse or sexual magic and it's just.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, it's probably changing hands. Now. In the lecture that I did at the Awakening about over a year ago now, the Awakening uk, it was called Molters, the host, the hybrid and the copy. And I went into how these entities are creating replicas of life or similarages of their existence in order to again further their existence. But in it I describe what I believe the phenomenon to be at least as an allegory or a way to understand it. The phenomenon evolves according to our awareness of it. That's the observer effect. We can at least acknowledge that to a degree. But with respect to the archetypes it incarnates as it's sharing information. Not that they're separate entities, it's one intelligence. And so I liken it. I likened it in the lecture to the spider tailed Iranian viper. Have you heard this yet?

[David Lee Corbo]

No, no.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Oh my goodness.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh, I do know that creature though. It's got a, it's, it's a viper with a what looks to be a anatomically correct spider on its tail.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Now this is, this is the phenomenon, the difference between the phenomenon manifesting that's the proto intelligence and a phenomenon incarnating and that's the spider. So here what we have is a spot, a snake. Its primary prey is, are birds. And so what it realized is that in order to get what it's hungry for, it has to become what its prey is hungry for. So it evolves. I'm going into, I'm going to conjure you, but I'm going to allow you to think you're conjuring me. And so the snake hides underneath the rock in the shade, takes its spider tail, flips it out there in the sun. Here's what we do. That's incarnation. The bird zooms in and says that's a spider. It starts to apply spider rules. That's a guide. A guide, you know, it's good interest. It has been. There we go. Right. Oh that's my dear, my dear ancestor, my dear an Edna. And so it dive bombs in and when it latches on to the spider. There's a sharing of information from the tip of the tail to the head of the snake. It's not a spider anymore, it's a snake. And the proto intelligence emerges from the shadows, takes off the archetypal mask. And now we're interfacing with the species we didn't even know existed.

[David Lee Corbo]

And we don't. Definitely don't know the rules of engagement.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

There we go. Right. And so what happens is what we're hungry for is hungry for us. What we're conjuring is conjuring us. And it puts us right into the position of. Now we need to discuss season five, the implications of it. I felt called to go out and observe. There's something calling you to be an observer. And that, my friends, is the difference between manifestation and incarnation. We become co creators.

[Top Lobster]

Wow.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Of the archetype. Who do men say that I am, my friends? Why it matters. It matters. Are you good, bud?

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

It's not often that you leave David speechless because now I'm like, I don't even know that. That's a. That's a spiral of a. Of a thought process that I have to take later. Oh my God.

[David Lee Corbo]

Especially the. The whole concept of. I mean it. What it does to me is. It highlights that there is a tremendous weakness in them.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

And the reason I say that is because the deception they have to deploy in order to operate and how much they rely on our consent and interaction with them almost suggests that without those things, they ain't. They really can't do much of anything at all. And I don't know about you, but when it comes to an adversary, one that is constantly making an effort to change forms and deceive you, tells you that without that function, it's almost like it's not much of a threat. It's the idea of that when. When Satan is casted out before the people, they'll look upon him and go like, damn, that's what we were all.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, that's what. That's what my mind went to. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

It's also this idea, this idea of. So Joe and Franco, he was on blurry, blurry creatures recently. He's a dude from the telepathy tapes that. Yeah, I think he's like a minister. But he was talking about his experience in India where these people were keenly aware of the gods that they venerate. And he asked them, he's like, hey, why? Why do you do that? And they said, we do. To keep them off of us. And that is Not. It's like, it's not the right answer. That's why India is covered in human and feces. That. But then also to say not, not to like, you know, crap on your narrative, David. But these things are quite dangerous. Like, I don't. I don't understand.

[David Lee Corbo]

But it's like only if their deception holds up, the second it starts to come apart, then the danger is gone. You know, it's even like, you listen to these and let's not even go through the whole casting them out in the name of Jesus, because there are instances where that doesn't work.

[Top Lobster]

Well, could that, could that be like a human form that you were talking about?

[David Lee Corbo]

Maybe. But what I'm getting at is that outside of that dismissing them in the name of Jesus or casting them out in the name of Jesus, you will often hear other stories like, oh, I was visited by, like, people who aren't religious. I was visited by a ghost. And the ghost kept showing up over and over again. And eventually I just asked it to leave. And, and whether or not you believe that that ghost left to that individual, perceivably speaking, it left. And so whatever actually happened there, even if it's laying in the cut and waiting to come back in some nefarious way because you actually didn't get it, which is very possible, it still needs to do a song and dance. It's not this omnipresent, incredibly powerful thing that can. It needs to. It's like, let's say it is deceiving you and it's going to go away temporarily. It sees you as. What would be the word? It sees you as a worthy enough opponent that it needs to deceive you.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

So it's taking you with some sort of. It. You, you, you have levity in that situation. You are a formidable foe.

[Top Lobster]

You remember the story from this guy Pontus that wrote to us about Patty? He. It's so again, back to our NDS Chronicles. His friend, this person's friend Patty, was under some kind of demonic oppression. And while he was at her house, like, he would pray for her and they would, you know, he would, they would try to help. He actually saw the entity on the roof of her, her house while they were outside. And he rebukes it. He tells it like, go away. And the entity actually goes, like, to a peak and says, I'm far enough. Like, this is. I can go this far, but I have the right to be here. It's still like, like, I am a respect. I'm like, what does that mean? Like you are a respectable distance from. Because he told you to leave, but you still have claim over Patty or whatever. There are rules, man, that we have no clue about.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

There we go. And they've made it that way.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yes. We've been stripped of our understanding of that.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Exactly right. And some of them. Not even some, most the propaganda we're getting now, even from the church. And I hate to say that it's like, it's. It's.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Again, it's. You know, take two of these. Even the threshold covenant, like, that was forced upon me at a young age. I'm like, this can't happen. This can't be happening. Threshold, threshold, covenant. It's like, no, it's happening. My dad was administered as church. I was an innocent kid. So there are things that are intentionally being propagated by the phenomenon that are. Seem to be. Seem to be coping mechanisms. Right? Where. Okay, yeah, this works. This works. And then they're employed, and phenomenon sometimes even get stronger. But to your point about the rules, you know, even in literature, there was one case study where, first of all, if we can believe them, right, There was this one case study where it was a newlywed couple who go on the honeymoon, and they consummate their marriage. After the immediate consummation. Boom. Entity materializes. Now, here's where we get to the pathology of possession. It's a pathogen. It's the ultimate hijacker. It starts here and ends up here. It starts outside, it ends inside. It was through the act of penetration that the entity possessed her. Okay. This is some of the darker nuances of my work that I don't get into because I can't. But we're not, like, you know, alive.

[Top Lobster]

No, that is a. That. Because we joke about it a lot, too. We say, like. Like the. I have a T shirt. I'm. I'm. I own a T shirt company. And it's a. It's a bunch of spaceships on it, and they're going through a portal that somebody drew, and it looks like buttholes. So I. It says interdimensional buttholes. Yeah, I do. I wore. I wore it to the bank. It's like. It was crazy, but it's. There is something. It's. It's funny, right? But I'm presenting you a very serious idea. Like, these craft are going interdimensionally through what looks like a butthole. And. And then you look at. At, like, the. The rituals that they would perform specifically with children. It seems to revolve around that Crowley.

[David Lee Corbo]

Sex Magic is a. Is a fundamental component to a lot of research that there's life was into.

[Top Lobster]

There's life being given from the. The vagina of the woman. And then there's something else going on with that other hole that is. It's a stink portal. Thank you, Kate.

[David Lee Corbo]

Well, if you asked Juan Ayala of the One on One podcast, he would say it's. It's the portal through which the homunculus is birthed.

[Top Lobster]

Yes. It's quite crude, but they're. They're doing this stuff and we are like. I don't know, we're dad. The funny thing is the culture dabbles in it, right? Like. Like, we love. Just recently, it was a whole, you know what, this episode's going off the rails, the whole ass eating phase. And I was like, what are we even doing, guys? This is a trend. There is so much significance to this. This idea of fornication, the penetration of. Of any of these holes. It's like, dude, you're. You're dab. I wish somebody would have told me this when, like. Like, you know, but in the church, my parents. Best explanation, like, why you shouldn't have sex before marriage is like, it's. It's a sin. God doesn't like it. It's like, whatever feels good, I'm gonna do it. You know? And that's what most people do is like, but why. But why is. Because there is a significance to this ritual that you're doing with somebody that you love, you don't love, that you don't even know.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, you're touching on something here. It's. It's that. Okay, like, getting back to that case study where they interrogated the entity after it possessed the. The wife. And in the interrogation, this again, this implies rules if we believe them. But they said, why didn't you do this to her prior to, you know, her getting married and consummating? He said, because we were forbidden to touch her until she's been touched. Now, my friends, this follows the line of thought into abuse.

[Top Lobster]

Yes.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Like, I had a case years ago during COVID This is very, very sinister too. And it's a friend of my family where I just get this phone call at like 2 in the morning. You know, I was worried at the time. I was working second shift and I just enjoyed my nights, right? Summertime, I'm out in the parking lot in my driveway, rather just hanging out. Boom, phone call. What's going on? What can I do? Well, we are at the er. They won't let us in to see our daughter, but she's having gastrointestinal issues. I said, all right. They're like, what can you do for us? Can you tell us what's going on? So I prayed and everything, and I had a vision. And in the vision, there was this man confessing his sins to me. It was on my left side. I don't understand. It made no sense. His name was Dan. He stunk like Bo, and he smoked and had a mustache. I said, who am I looking at? And she said, that's my daughter's biological father. I said, well, this man's a rapist. Yes, he is a rapist. Unbelievable weird stuff. So he's confessing to me everything he did. And. And I. I promise you this happened. And in the middle of his confession, he says that the spirit that's on me assaulted my daughter. And so then I go into. And I'm seeing. This is why, like, the church tried to mentor me into prophecy. And I won't even be a problem. All that. Whatever. That's a long story. But anyway, so I'm like, okay, well, I'm in your house now. Like, I'm looking at a chair. There's a couch. I said, about two weeks. When she gets out, I want you to sit her down and ask her what has happened. I said, because she has been assaulted. And this entity that was possessing the man that assaulted her is now inhabiting her dreams at night. So they sit her down, come to find out, yeah, she was a college student, went to a party. Some big burly man pulled her into a room, assaulted her. The problem is, this is where the pathology is crazy that that man left, but the entity visited her. Now, so that entity literally possessed someone to create trauma in her life and then came back to feed on it in her nightmares.

[Top Lobster]

This is like a parasite. This is what a parasite does.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Parasitic. Absolutely. Symbiote. Yeah, it's deeper than symbiote. You know, symbiotic relationship and symbiosm. So my point here is that she was freaking out because even though it wasn't the man, it had the same personality type, right? Because that entity was wearing him as an avatar. Had the same. The. Just the same bravado and the same smell. It was. It was freaking her out. And so I said, okay, well, once she tells you about that, what she has to do is go get therapy. And when she got therapy, she closed that portal. And so my point here is that some of these entities will cause trauma in lives and use people to do it. And Then when they'll pull themselves out of that biological avatar, they'll go hijack that person and start haunting them.

[David Lee Corbo]

And so they create a crack in you especially, you know, childhood trauma, one that they can enter and exit through pretty much at their leader.

[Top Lobster]

Well, this is. The idea of. This is gonna get. I mean, whatever. This episode is already, like, off the rails. But the idea of homosexuality is not like a natural thing. Like Lady Gaga would say, born this way. It's like, no, there's a good argument that this happens at childhood. This happens with trauma.

[David Lee Corbo]

I mean, I think the study.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Milo.

[Top Lobster]

Milo Yiannopoulos got in trouble for saying this. That's what got him canceled. Of all the things he said, it was.

[David Lee Corbo]

Of all things he said.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, of all the things he said, he's like, I was touched as a child. That's why I am the way I am. And I'm like, there is something to that. There's. That story is prevalent in this community.

[David Lee Corbo]

Well, they used to have psychological studies that showed like, upwards of 60 to 70% of. Of gay identifying males also suffered some sort of childhood trauma of a sexual variety. And then they stopped doing that, those studies. So that's not really a point of research anymore. But yeah, I mean, it's like trauma is the gateway. If they can first get you there, they've got you vulnerable, and then, you know, they've got an anchor to latch onto, whether it's the person who traumatized you or something like that. And they've got a. An in that they can. They can enter.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes. The pathology is the same. And remember how I said that there seem to be. Some of these are formerly human practitioners. We don't know what that formerly human aspect of our potentiality is. We call it a ghost, but truly not. This is where, again, that the Hebrew authors, they kind of got the concept of the ghost God. And it's from the atrocious epic where it's. The ghost of man is made from the flesh of a God. It's. So it's that liminal existence. Okay. It's that. That's really what I'm trying to articulate. I believe that's what our ancestors were trying to describe, is that whatever that species is, we don't really have a way to articulate them now.

[Top Lobster]

Yes. Do we have a way to battle them? Because this is what fringe was talking about. And many people, like the Albarino pushed back on us about the name of Jesus getting these things to go away. He said, in some cases, no. And it's like, are then.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Are those being honest about that? You know, that's incredible. Kudos to him because people want to ride that narrative. And I'm telling you, it's great for likes and clicks. It will feed people's families. But at the end of the day.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right, not helping, fringe.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

It's not helping. Now we have. Right now. Now here is what's going to blow your mind. If we are dealing with a species that's inhabiting another species, or at least putting its consciousness in the avatar, what we could be looking at is the name of Jesus being spoken to. The avatar.

[Top Lobster]

Right, Right, Exactly.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Not right. And so if as long as that species has a little bit of free will, you won't initially be talking to the entity you're talking to. The avatar are. And so when people. And that. That's something that I've been toying with. It's a theory. But getting back to rules, let me.

[Top Lobster]

Let me say, Nathaniel, there's a. Again, it could be a bogus story, but the guy that. He has a book called that he killed Anton lavey. I forget his name. There's a point where he says, Anton Levay is what's. What's the word? Like, his spirit is astral projecting and tormenting him in his house. And I guess he could knock stuff over to a certain level, talk to him, and he rebukes him in the name of Jesus. Same thing. Get out of my house in the name of Jesus. And he laughs at him because he's like, I'm not a demon. I'm a human. And. And I don't respond to that. You can't. You can't do that.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Hitting a nail on the head, right? And this is something that French and I talked about a long time ago. Not a long time ago, but a while ago, where trying to understand why it doesn't work. You know, even in, like, some of the research my friends are doing in the uk, we had a conversation where he, my friend, was like, yeah, he's like, it was the most devoted that were the most haunted. And we kind of internalized that specifically in religiosity. Say, okay, of course. Right. The devil fights those who he fears the most. That kind of logic. But with respect to hybridism, possession turned into pregnancy. And so there's a difference. It's fascinating. There's the haunting and then there's the hatching. And we're dealing with that. There we go, my friend. Absolutely. And. And that's why in my book, the skin that cross which I make, I may Send that link to you. I didn't. I don't know if I did or not.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, yes, please do. I'm looking it up now.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

All right, let me. Let me give it to you. But what I'm dealing with again is the golem, the sigilization of the Hebrew word for fetus. That's the golem.

[Top Lobster]

Right.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So what we're. What they're doing essentially is exact. It's replicating. Let me see if I can find it, buddy. But yeah, so that's what I'm dealing with lately, and I'm excited. Let's see.

[Top Lobster]

Is it a. Is it an ebook or is it a physical copy book? What do you got?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

It's gonna. It's gonna be both, buddy. Let me see.

[Top Lobster]

How can. I love it?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Anyways, I'll send it to you after the show, then you can kind of put it up. How about that?

[Top Lobster]

Yes.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

But, yeah, that may very well be what's going on is where essentially, when we deal with these hybrids, it would be an exorcism. That's way different than what was given to me as a kid. Right. It's like Michael Scott, right, when he's dealing with Toby and Toby's, like, trying to really get him talk about his trauma and childhood. And Michael Scott's like, yeah, take two of these and call me in the morning. That's how Right I was treated. And it's like, that's not really what's going on.

[David Lee Corbo]

And it's like I'm trying to gather, you know, the. The rules of this spiritual realm, the rules of engagement. And it seems sometimes that, you know, they're giving you this rudimentary, like, say these prayers and. And be done with it. But it seems like the reason they have access to you in. In the first place might be the problem. Problem meaning there might be a bit of legalese as to why they are able to interact with you. And maybe until you address that, you know, and you're talking about this childhood trauma or trauma of any sort and, you know, going through therapy and things like that, maybe until you address that thing that has given them legal rights over you, you're. It's not going to be that.

[Top Lobster]

It's a. It's something that I spoke with fringe about. Again, it's like, so like we're saying here, it's like, I agree with you completely that the church has been. I don't want to call it a failure, actually, I will call it a failure in its current state. Mostly what it is is it has failed to prepare us. And it's failed in a bunch of different ways. But what I brought up to fringe was the idea of baptism, because she says she hasn't been baptized. And that's a ritual that has to do with water purification. And there's something significant with, like, regular. Regular clear water, not brackish water. Like, it seems like brackish water is used to trap entities at the bottom of the ocean, but regular, clear water was used for this idea of almost an exorcism. So I'm like, maybe check that out. Check down that road, because we haven't found the answer. I mean, the name of Jesus works for. It worked for David. David had an encounter with an entity, but it doesn't work all the time. So we have to keep asking.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yes. Yes. And I don't even think we've. I don't think we have you guys touched on Ezekiel 13 yet? The souls of men. To make them fly. To cause them to fly. Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

No.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So in Ezekiel, chapter 13, this is out of the book. Disembodied souls again. He's deal. The author is dealing with a species of necromancer that is basically genderless. Some. Some Hebrew words point to female, others male. But it's a species of necromancer that's employing some form of technology in order to trap souls. Souls. And that's something I've never. I've covered it years ago, but I don't think we have in the interview yet. But, yeah, that. That's. I believe these are the same species where they hunt the souls of men to make them fly. And it's fascinating. And the idea, again, it's. It's a reference to the Egyptian soul, the BAAL soul.

[Top Lobster]

Do you think. Do you think these entities can. Because there's an idea of selling your soul, and without. Without any, like, knowledge, like. Like solid knowledge about it, I get the inclination that you cannot sell your soul. It doesn't seem like it belongs. It's ours, but it does not belong to us. But trapping it is something that seems like maybe they could keep you in a spot for a little while, but to own it, I don't know.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Well, now we're going in a unique direction. I hope people are still.

[Top Lobster]

I don't want to keep you. If you got to go, let me know, because I don't want to. I want to respect your time. It's just like. I got questions.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Well, I have a few more minutes.

[Top Lobster]

Okay.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

So here is what we're dealing with. Here's some of the like the fringe, not the fringe areas of the research. We have case studies where, like, Whitley Strieber was abducted. And in his encounter, they're taking fingernails samples and cutting his fingernails. And he's asking them, why are you doing this? And they said, we're making another. You. We have cases like one of which Dr. Caller Turner had, where the lady is abducted and they're threatening her, like, listen, if you don't do what we want you to do, we're going to do something to you. And they said, okay, like, what are you gonna do? And they pointed at the corner of the room and there's another body of her, another clone of her. And they said, you know, if, if you don't do what we want you to do, we'll kill you and we'll send that back and nobody will know the difference. So I would suggest, and this is very deep and dark, that not everybody who's returned actually made it back.

[Top Lobster]

Sounds like Kanye west, dude.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, that sound like.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

By the way, was that a real tweet or not?

[Top Lobster]

It was a real tweet. Was it real?

[David Lee Corbo]

I don't know, but real. It was a real ass tweet. It was crazy. Yeah. So, I mean, once again, that just stems into so much, right, because we, we sit now in a space in the conspiracy world where, where cloning and these, these, these underground facilities, or potential underground facilities, cloning facilities exist. And yeah, Kanye potentially having been cloned. And, and then of course, you have the, the IVF program that's the most sinister.

[Top Lobster]

Like I. We know that Elon Musk is using IVF after he lost his first baby. That's the excuse for creating these designer babies. But Donald Trump is proposing legislation to make IVF not just affordable, but almost like government funded. And with that comes this idea of when the eggs are taken from the woman after the retrieval process, they're then frozen until they're inseminated with the sperm. But when they're frozen, they cost money to store. And if you can't afford IVF in general, you're not going to be able to afford this yearly month, whatever payment, to freeze these eggs. That means they're government owned. And that worries me.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Let's. Let's get back into again. We're literally looking at necromancy, which I'll explain here in a second. Necromancy being merged with technology. It's necronetics. Now in Israel, what they're starting to do is take D.C. soldiers.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, saw that.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Reanimate the corpse, harvest the secretions, inseminate the, the wife or the girl.

[David Lee Corbo]

That sounds like what you were talking about at the beginning of the show.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely.

[David Lee Corbo]

Same shit.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely.

[Top Lobster]

They're not just starting to, they've been doing this. I, I read that like three years ago.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I was like, that's strange, by the way. It's probably my belly, dude, I'm starving. If you guys hear anything, it's even listening to it.

[David Lee Corbo]

I thought you had, I thought they were there. I thought the phenomenon. I was in the room with you.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I actually had somebody email that to me a long time ago where I think I'm possessed. And I was like, why? He's like, because my stomach growls at me. And I'm like, oops.

[David Lee Corbo]

I mean, you know, it's. Sometimes it's better to be cautious. Overly cautious is a thing. But. Well, why don't we, why we're at the 2 hour and 10 minute mark. Why don't we bring it in for a landing here? I, I, you know, Nathan, I know you, you were concerned a little bit about the nature just because of how it's.

[Top Lobster]

I don't know if he wants like Nate Dog, Nathan. Nathaniel.

[David Lee Corbo]

I think Nate Dog is good. Nate Dog. I, you know, there's, there's a big concern about how this is going to be received. Not a big concern. I mean, you're going forward, you're doing this research, you're making your appearances on these shows. And I just want to say that you might find this to be a positive, but I don't think that you ruffled any feathers of our audience. And in fact, much of the research that you've laid out for us here fits in really well with what we've been discussing. And, and I think that what you're discovering might help us in a very particular area. And I don't just mean us on the show. I mean everybody who is now being awakened to the idea that there is a spiritual realm, we said it a couple times here during this show. We've been stripped of our understanding of it. We don't understand the rules of engagement. And these things are playing multiple games with us. They're presenting as one thing. And we engage with that on a, on a basis that we think we understand. It's actually not that, it's actually something else in the wings hiding behind that sort of straw man that you're interacting with.

[Top Lobster]

You know, David, he's. You've said multiple times, Daniel, that you're like, you separate yourself from other researchers as you do this because you don't want them to get These attachments. And I've thought about this as I do this shows like we're presenting crazy information to these people that some, some of it could be probably not true, but a lot of it is right on. A lot of it is dead on. And I'm like, am I opening the door to these people to be visited or to have. And. And I was, I was a little hesitant at first. I'm like, nah, man, this door has been kicked open since COVID That door has been kicked wide open. And guess what? It's looking at you. No matter if you look at it, if you look at it back, it's looking at all the people that don't listen to the show, all my family members who have their head in the sand. It's looking directly, it's breathing down your neck and it's about to touch you. So we better start look like learning, learning how to engage with these things. Sorry, David, continue.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's exactly what I was going to say is it may be uncomfortable information, it may seemingly fly in the face of what you think you knew before. But we need to understand how this works. And we're in a position, humanity is in a position where the old texts have been obfuscated, history has been rewritten a gang of times. His civilizations have been hidden from us. And we are almost at, at like first base. Like we've got to start all over again in trying to understand this phenomenon. And we have some things that we can, we can look to and, and use as something to lean on. But a lot of this is going to be new territory. And I have a feeling that in the near future these things are going to become more prolific in people's lives. I think they are. Now, I think I might be biased, but from where I'm sitting and, and the things that I'm looking at, it seems like it's happening more than it used to. It seems like there's been an uptick in this supernatural experience that people are bumping into. And if that's true, if there is a trend upward, if the veil is thinning, if supernatural events are taking place more often than they were previously, well, then it's more important now than maybe ever to understand this other realm that does exist and influences our own physical realm to a degree that we can't even begin to imagine.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Absolutely. We have to. Yes, we have to grow out of the dogma and grow into the data at all costs.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's an interesting. I like that. Grow out of the dogma and into the data. One More time. Where can people find you?

[Top Lobster]

Hold on one sec. Look, these are our fans. This guy can come back whenever he wants. So they just book our show now? Yeah, and that's fine. He's here every day.

[David Lee Corbo]

He's a high level supporter too. So if Z, if you have Z man's blessing, then that's, that's as good as anybody's.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah. And so I'm on Instagram. I was on X and I couldn't take it, man, Honestly, I'm telling you. Like I, I, I went on for a space fringe invited me on and was very graceful and I, I really enjoyed my time on there and just. But X itself is, it's a cesspool. And so I, I tried to get back on and I couldn't take it as long as I thought I could. And so now I'm back off. But you can find me on Instagram here. And yeah, so that's where I'm at.

[Top Lobster]

And the book coming out, whenever it comes out, you have to let us know because I'm sure, I mean, I'm gonna buy a copy and then I'll like. I think the people here would be interested. So the Skin that Crawls, that's, that's your next book?

[Nathaniel Gillis]

Yeah, the Skin that Crawls. I'm opening up. The opening chapter is the ritual doctrine of non corporeal conception. And it's about how the observer effect is weaponized against us where it wants to be observed and we want to observe it. And so in that interfacing moment, the phenomenon incarnates. And it's. Anyways, it's going to be interesting. I hope people like it. I didn't like, I wasn't like as known as I am now. Not that like I'm some huge celebrity, but I didn't have like publishers, you know, like knocking down my door when I started the book. Now they are. And I'm like, I don't even know if I want to do that. Right. I just, I'm just gonna publish it myself and then maybe my second book will be with. I don't know. But yeah, I appreciate you guys having me on, man. It's, it's been a blast. And we covered a lot of really germane content.

[David Lee Corbo]

It was an awesome conversation. And it's one of these that I know we're going to cite back to. When it comes to, yeah, this narrative.

[Top Lobster]

You'Re gonna be exhausted hearing your name. Like actually Nathaniel Gillis said they're like, Gillis says.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah. Huh? That's gonna be it exactly. Our audience is gonna be chewing us up for that one. Is that all we got? Top?

[Top Lobster]

That's all we got again. Nathaniel, open door. But guys, until tomorrow, I think we're back. We'll see you later. And don't forget to obey, submit and comply. Bye.

[Nathaniel Gillis]

The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is a problem box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real. You can persuade us what they see with their eyes is what they is to see because they'll face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what and they have.