Demonic Aliens and Generational Iniquity w/ Vicki Joy Anderson & Topher Gardner

Summary

---

Nephilim Death Squad Biblical Conspiracy

Episode: Demonic Aliens and Generational Iniquity

Guests: Vicki Joy Anderson & Topher Gardner
Date: February 24, 2026
Hosts: TopLobsta (Matt), David Lee Corbo (The Raven), plus other contributors

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the intersection of biblical theology, spiritual warfare, modern conspiracies, alien disclosure, and cultural shifts within Christianity. With guests Vicki Joy Anderson—a spiritual warfare author—and Topher Gardner—who shares firsthand spiritual experiences—the discussion explores the re-emergence of “fringe” biblical ideas, the inadequacies of mainstream Christianity in addressing supernatural realities, pitfalls of technological shortcuts to wisdom (including AI and psychedelics), the manipulation of mass consciousness, and how to discern truth in an era of global deception.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. "Fringe" Biblical Topics Are Becoming Relevant Again

• Church Context:
  • Vicki describes being “pushed out” for discussing spiritual warfare, occult topics, and biblical supernaturalism (06:01–07:18).
  • The mainstream church resists these themes, even as plotlines from scripture (e.g. Moses, David, ancient cultural practices) become more relevant amid alien/UFO “disclosure” narratives developing in culture (07:18–10:50).
• Quote:
  • “Things are about to get weird. We have a Spielberg movie about to drop in June called Disclosure. They are priming the pumps and prepping the people... The church has got to adapt and start re-acclimating themselves with the non-scientific method, non-Plato, non-Greek, Stoic methods of reading the Bible.” – Vicki (07:18)
• Cultural Parallel:
  • The hosts agree: the biblical worldview already describes a world rife with deception, spiritual beings, and cycles of occult revival (14:41–16:40, 16:40–17:42).

2. Crisis in the Institutional Church and Rise of House/Online Fellowships

• COVID as a Spiritual Divider:
  • 2020 marked a significant “red pilling” (awakening) where a minority left the church institution, recognizing it as compromised (12:19–12:59).
  • Those who “got it” left for home fellowships or found spiritual community online (13:26–13:44).
• Quote:
  • “The people that got red pilled, the people that got awakened, the people that saw this whole entire religious system is a thought prison... They left the church and when the churches opened back up, they stayed away, they didn't go back.” – Vicki (13:00)
• Grassroots Response:
  • The hosts discuss starting a Christian library and using cafes/podcasts as new "churches" (17:42–21:38).

3. AI, Chatbots, & the Dangers of Shortcutting the Spiritual Path

• The Temptation of Artificial Wisdom:
  • As institutional churches become hollow, Vicki warns people will soon seek spiritual answers from AI chatbots, possibly reaching AGI-level “oracles” (24:13–26:23).
• Quote:
  • “At what point does the phone, the chat bot become the tree of knowledge of good and evil? And at what point are we culpable as believers for partaking in it?” – Vicki (26:13)
• Shortcut to Knowledge is Counterfeit:
  • The group points out that true wisdom comes from experience, struggle, and Holy Spirit-guided process, not instant data retrieval (26:23–28:39).
  • "Knowledge without the experiential wisdom... is damaging." – Raven (27:56)

4. Spiritual Realm: Beyond Definition and Semantics

• Reality Over Language:
  • Vicki emphasizes that while semantics matter, firsthand spiritual experience always overrides debates over terminology (34:10–36:56).
• Quote:
  • “When you have an experience that seems to take place in maybe a realm that is not strictly the physical realm... whatever you want to call it becomes really unimportant.” – Raven (32:57)
  • "Language is extremely limiting." – Vicki (35:30)
• Flexibility Needed:
  • The group critiques the tendency to cling to rigid doctrines; transformation comes through letting go and letting God correct or refine one’s understanding (42:58–44:54).

5. Firsthand Spiritual Encounters: Near Death, Psychedelics, and Dream Manipulation

• Topher’s NDE Testimony:
  • As a child, Topher died and experienced "pure love" in a timeless realm. He describes angelic presences, a feeling of “home,” and asserts it was utterly different from later shamanic experiences (47:12–51:56).
  • “I was in this euphoria of love... my existence as a body when I was little was in a lot of pain ... for the first time ever, I felt zero pain.” – Topher (48:08)
• Contrast With Psychedelics:
  • He draws a sharp contrast: ayahuasca and DMT led to “astral” or lower realms, sometimes manipulated—never comparable to the peace or holiness of the NDE (60:14–63:05).
  • “None of them ever even came close to the presence of God that I felt as a 4 year old.” – Topher (60:51)
• AI/Psyche Manipulation:
  • Tech is already being used to manipulate consciousness en masse. Dream “hacking,” mass hallucinations, and embedded advertising are infiltrating the subconscious (24:13–29:43, 75:58–83:44).
  • “People are talking about collective dream spaces... people are drawing maps and the maps are lining up.” – Vicki (75:58)
  • Sabrina Wallace’s research: modern telecom frequencies resonate with human neurology, making such manipulation possible (81:00–82:54).
• Discerning the Source:
  • Not all visions, feelings of “love,” or revelations are from God—intent matters; even beings of “light” can be deceptive (61:38–64:39, 103:57–105:03).

6. Alien Disclosure, Ancient Elohim, and Redefining ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’

• What Are “Aliens” Biblically?
  • Vicki unpacks the term “Elohim” as any non-terrestrial entity—not just “God” but also angels, dead souls, and other beings (89:26–91:23).
  • “When the Bible… says Elohim, it's talking about every single being that's not terrestrial in nature.” – Vicki (90:07)
• Discernment By Intent, Not Claims:
  • Demonic or “fallen” beings can and do speak truth—what matters is their purpose and alignment (91:49–97:18).
  • “If they're doing it to build your trust so they can... lure you into the back of the white panel van with their candy?... Evil people can speak truth.” – Vicki (92:45)
• False Binaries:
  • Multiple factions infight for power; not every adversary is Satan or “the” bad guy. The biblical reality is more epic and complex than Hollywood dualism (96:19–100:09).
  • “What if there are a hundred Hasatans? ... We would have so much more excitement and cultural pride in who we are as children of God if we understood how badass Jesus is... He has conquered, you know, zillions of these things that are coming at him from every angle.” – Vicki (98:19)

7. The Value and Cost of Genuine Faith

• Prosperity Gospel Rejected:
  • The “gifts” of fallen entities—be it technology, health, or prosperity—often serve to enslave (105:03–113:42).
  • “The reason why the things that were shared by the Watchers were worthless is because the intent wasn't for our convenience and our health, wealth and happiness. The same way today the elites give us all of these things, but it's not for our health, wealth and happiness. It's to get us further enslaved.” – Vicki (105:41)
  • True Christian life means embracing suffering, letting go of worldly metrics, and trusting that Christ’s victory does not always look like earthly success (115:42–118:15).
• Identity and Calling:
  • Vicki shares how personal difficulty and the “refining fire” were necessary to prepare her for her unique role (131:25–134:30).
  • “Every single thing that I'm equipped to do right now, I'm equipped to do because the first 20, 30 years of my life was very, very, very difficult. The refining fire, it was the refining fire. It was the crucible.” – Vicki (131:25)
• Central Question:
  • Ultimate reality hangs on the answer to Christ’s question: “Who do you say I am?” (115:42).

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On New Age/Occult Disclosure:
  • “They're going to go into full Lucifer telescope, baptizing alien nonsense. All the Anunnaki, all the ancient aliens, all of that stuff is coming out.” – Vicki (07:34)
• On Church as “Thought Prison”:
  • “…the whole entire religious system is a thought prison.” – Vicki (13:25)
• On Spiritual Wisdom vs. Instant Knowledge:
  • “Knowledge without the experiential wisdom… is damaging.” – The Raven (27:56)
• On Limitation of Language and Flexible Doctrine:
  • “Even if I've come to some radical changes in what I believe… I've never exchanged a… church tradition… for something lesser. God has never wrestled something precious out of my hands and given me something crappier.” – Vicki (41:22)
• On Alien Rebranding and Deception:
  • “We’ve constructed our concept of… good and evil more from Star Wars than we have the Bible.” – Vicki (93:41)
• On True Gifts:
  • “The kingdom of Jesus Christ is about abundance… the kingdom of Babylon is all about lack. There’s not enough.” – Vicki (106:18)
• On Letting Go of Preconceived Notions:
  • “If God has revealed something new to me, that’s fine, but I have to be ready to move in that direction. Otherwise, I’m just going to be stuck here.” – Matt (117:41)
• Christ's Example in Suffering:
  • “The theology that left the garden with him was, I know you can do all things. Not my will, but yours be done.” – Vicki (127:21–128:20)

---

Important Timestamps

• Opening & Main Theme Begins: 03:54–05:36
• Mainstream Church Resistance & A Coming Disclosure: 06:44–10:50
• Red Pill Event of 2020: 11:16–13:44
• Biblical Framework for Conspiracies (Epstein, Rituals, Slavery): 16:40–18:12
• Café/Library & Online Ministries as New Church: 17:42–21:38
• Technology, AI Oracles & The “New Tree of Knowledge”: 24:13–28:39
• Shortcuts to Spiritual Wisdom—Psychedelics vs. Discipline: 29:43–32:22
• Reality of the Spiritual Realm: 32:22–36:56
• Letting Go of Doctrinal Rigidity: 42:58–44:54
• Topher’s NDE Story: 47:12–51:56
• Contrast: Ayahuasca/Astral Realm vs. Heaven: 60:14–63:18
• Dream Hacking & Collective Lucid Space: 75:57–83:44
• Redefining ‘Alien’ Biblically & the Elohim: 87:15–91:49
• Multiplicity of Adversaries (Hasatan): 97:18–100:09
• Ancient Technologies, Value of Suffering, & False Gifts: 105:03–115:42
• Pursuing Truth over Party Lines or Comfort: 116:15–120:25
• Christ as Example of Suffering & Eschatology: 123:04–128:20
• Vicki’s Closing Testimony on Calling and Purpose: 131:25–134:30

---

Summary Table

| Segment | Topic | Highlights | |---------|-------|------------| | 06:44–10:50 | Mainstream Church & Coming Disclosure | Churches ill-equipped for spiritual realities; Spielberg’s “Disclosure” as cultural catalyst | | 11:16–13:44 | Red Pill and 2020 Church Exodus | Awakening/remnant leaves institutional churches for house/online gatherings | | 24:13–28:39 | Technology & Spiritual Wisdom | AI wisdom as forbidden fruit; real wisdom requires experience and Holy Spirit | | 47:12–51:56 | Topher’s Near-Death Experience | Genuine transcendent love; stark difference from altered consciousness via substances | | 75:57–83:44 | Tech Manipulation & Dream Realms | Dream hacking, mass consciousness manipulation, new battleground in spiritual war | | 89:26–100:09 | Biblical “Aliens” & Spiritual Factions | Elohim as any non-terrestrial being; “aliens” and demons as rebranded ancient entities | | 105:03–115:42 | True Gifts vs. False | Wisdom and prosperity of God aren’t what the adversary offers (slavery vs. freedom) | | 131:25–134:30 | Persevering Purpose | Personal growth comes through struggle; Christ redeems suffering for the believer’s purpose |

---

Final Reflections

The episode implores listeners to:

• Discern the source and intent behind every “truth”—be it spiritual, technological, or supernatural.
• Embrace biblical literacy rooted in original context, even at the cost of doctrinal comfort.
• Recognize that much of what is called “profound” (AI, psychedelics, alien disclosure) may be counterfeit, offering enslavement rather than true spiritual freedom.
• Prepare for an era where deception is mass-marketed and only intimacy with Christ, not pre-packaged religion or new age wisdom, will guide and protect believers through bewildering times.
• Pursue an active, living relationship with God as the only true source of abundant life, hope, discernment, and purpose.

---

For Further Listening

• Vicki Joy Anderson: vickijoyanderson.com
• Sean Tabitt’s book on Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[Narrator]

We're lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Ookle of Speedtest Intelligence data at 2H2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. C T mobile.com for details.

[Narrator]

Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s. It works for members like.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

I'm Hailey and I've lost 100 pounds.

[Narrator]

Weight Watchers has everything I need from

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. It's all in one place.

[Narrator]

Weight Watchers handles the insurance for you and offers affordable cash pay options. With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effect support.

[T Mobile Representative]

I'm Mike and I've lost 135 pounds.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Weight Watchers prescribing GLP1 medic medications. It's been life changing.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

I'm Sharia and I lost 80 pounds on Weight Watchers. I realized that it would take more

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

than a prescription to lose weight and

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

feel good on a GLP1.

[Narrator]

Better results, expert support, lose more weight, make it last.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I can't imagine doing a GLP1 without Weight Watchers.

[Narrator]

Get started for as low as $[e-mail] GLP1. For over 60 years, we've helped millions of members find what works for them. Now it's your turn, Weight Watchers.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Watch it work.

[Narrator]

I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out how

[Narrator]

are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Ookle of Speedtest Intelligence data 2H2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage. Price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Ctobile.com for details.

[Matt]

That's Top Lobster Productions.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

In the shadows of the an.

[T Mobile Representative]

Away.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

They're still here today.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Welcome, black ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven. That is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get in today's episode, a little reminder. If you want to support us, Patreon.com/now/Nepilim Death Squad is the way to do it. You don't have it pulled up, do you?

[Matt]

Got it.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Vamping, vamping, vamping. That's a great place to go if you want to support the show. If you want early access to episodes, unedited versions, first dibs on tickets to Bohemian Grove, as well as discount codes off of merchandise from Top Lobster.com. show them a shirt.

[Matt]

That's right. We got.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Why don't you show them that? The flag.

[Unidentified Male Host]

This one.

[Matt]

I'm wearing this one today. The Nephilim Death Squad youth group.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Matt doesn't like this one. He's like, why is it glorifying falling? Never said it was glorified. That's exactly what it said. We have a lot of people in the studio here today.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I got the Fear not.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Stop it. Don't show people that. Don't make that weird body contortion thing. We're joined by Matt. And we're also joined by Topher Grace of.

[Topher Grace]

Topher Grace.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Who's Topher Grace? Nobody. No, that's. That's a guy from. Yeah, he's an actor. He's the guy from that 70s show. We're joined by the guy from that 70s show. We figured since we just did an episode with Topher. Oh my God. That we would keep them because we, we were. We're sitting down right now with Vicki Joy Anderson. And I know that she crushes and, and Topher is very interested in her work. And so we decided why not? Let's make this a party. So thank you for joining us. Sorry that we sprung this on you. Vicki didn't even know. She thought she was just going to talk to two of us. Instead, now she's got to deal with four schizophrenic people. Before we get into it, Vicki, let's remind everybody what it is you do and where they can find your work.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Oh, man. Yeah, basically everything's under the umbrella of spiritual warfare. So, yeah, anything fringy, kooky, anything that gets you in trouble, anything that makes your church want to excommunicate you for not pounding round peg into their round hole. I'm pretty much talking about it. You can find [e-mail] that's Vicki with an I.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You know, Vicki, this is something that is preview, you said. Yeah. Pass me that book real quick because I have here in the coffee shop, slash NDS studios, slash Christian library, slash fabrication shop, really quickly. They only come out at night and we have that sitting here, one of your books. And I was sort of, I don't know, what's the word? Pumping you up before the show because I said that you're one of my favorite people. You are genuinely one of my favorite people. This, this topic that you, you said, you know, it kind of gets you pushed out by maybe the mainstream church is something that, and I wonder your thoughts on this over the past few years has become not mainstream. It's definitely not mainstream. I wouldn't say it's mainstream, but I

[Matt]

think that the more widely acceptable.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right. Because the climate of Earth, you know, Earth season 2026 is so. It's so wild that these, these topics are being talked about more and more. And you know, folks like you, your work has contributed to this conversation in a really major way. Vicki, what's it been like? Is it at all feel like you've come out of the fringes and this conversation has evolved to be more so suited for the, for the mainstream conversation? Or, or are we just biased because we're in it?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

That's a really good question. So in the last like four years, I'm still finding that the mainstream church is having difficulty with the spiritual warfare, the demonic, the supernatural. If you even say supernatural, people will want to nitpick the like, precise dictionary definition of that word. And I'm not married to that word. I don't care what you call it. Things are about to get weird. We have a Spielberg movie about to drop in June called Disclosure. They are priming the pumps and prepping the people. They are going to go into full Lucifer, telescope, baptizing alien nonsense. All the Anunnaki, all the ancient aliens, all of that stuff is coming out. So the church has got to adapt and start re acclimating themselves with the non scientific method, non Plato, non Greek, Stoic methods of reading the Bible. Because if you delve into the culture, context, history, language and geography of the original writings, it is mind bending stuff. And if I can't even mention Moses's staff without people thinking I'm a witch, I mean this is how far the church has gone with the putting the ears over their head saying, you know, and the fact is, the world that Moses knew, the world that Joseph knew, the world that Solomon knew, these were guys high up in Egyptian and Babylonian and Mesopotamian court systems, royal bloodlines. David saw giants. They, if you dig into the Hebrew and the Greek, there is crazy stuff going on. And in fact, I think if the average Christian knew how many times very ancient occult practices were actually being directly addressed in scripture, they'd be offended. They kicked a preacher for preaching it. The, the ancient world saw these things eye to eye. And because everything comes full circle as they disclose more and more and more of this stuff to us with the UFOs and the Anunnaki and all that, we are going to come full circle back to the days of Noah. Don't, don't point at Vicki. You know, don't, don't point your cognitive dissonance at me. I'm quoting Scripture, Noah. This is what said. They saw these realities face to face. We are going to see some of this stuff with our own eyes. And if the church doesn't get their worldview and their doctrine and their theology and their Bible reading up to speed, you're going to find yourself in the conundrum that H.P. lovecraft predicted at the end of his opening paragraph of Call of Cthulhu that if you don't take the blue pill or the red pill, you, you're going to face one of two options. You can either enter into the world, the, the insane world of the gods coming back placidly brain pithed and just going with the flow, or if you don't take the blue pill and you don't comply, you will go mad. Yes.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

What a banger of a way to open this up.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Okay, can I ask something?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Or you could ask two things.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

What's your like?

[Matt]

I just want you to know that that's like a strike one and that's

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

going to cost you several net points.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Where do you place the odds of the 501C3 Modern American church system? Like getting it figured out? Like. Well, I guess that's my question is like, do you see like an awakening happening within the church or do you just see that system just completely, just going astray?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Okay, so you know the verse that says it is time for judgment and judgment begins with the household of God. And so I really think in 2020, what I have found in the last five plus years here is a lot of genuine born again believers got red pilled. And I think that the wheat and the tear started to get separated in 2020.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I'm so sorry to ask this. What is the red pill?

[Matt]

Vicki?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

This is.

[Matt]

You don't understand what's happening here.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Red pill, blue pill thing. But does the red pill mean they didn't get it?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, red pill is like this idea you would wake up to. The. The idea that the mainstream narrative is false and the paradigm that you've come to understand is not accurate. Or the blue pill is choose to stay in that illusion.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Vicki, you're saying that the modern American 501C3 system in 2020 red pilled. Like they figured it out. They said, okay, we're getting, dude, a remnant.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

A remnant figured it out. Okay, and, and guess what happened when the 501C 3 Cor capital C Church, slash trace the seeds back through Catholicism back to mithriism, back to the occult, back to Kabbalah. You know, when, when they, when 2020 hit, they were asleep and most of the church didn't wake up. What happened to the church that woke up? You would think that if 5% of the church woke up, there'd be revival, but no. What happened? The people that got red pilled left the church and never came back.

[Topher Grace]

That's true.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Because they're like, man, the 501C3, they're taking money from the government, they're complying. They're putting all of these like soap dispensers all over the church and taking out the chairs and telling people if they stand next to someone or they sing a worship song, they're going to jail. So what happened is the people that got red pilled, the people that got awakened, the people that saw this whole entire religious system is a thought prison.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yep.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

They, they left the church and when the churches opened Back up. They stayed away, they didn't go back. They're now forming house churches like in the book of Acts. They're going back to a house church model or they're getting all of their spiritual fellowship and content online.

[Topher Grace]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And this is a shame because, you know, I just made a tweet about this the other day. When it comes to the Epstein files, for example, there's this great revelation that's taking place where people are finding out that the elites are potentially sacrificing children, making slaves of men, doing rituals and commiserating with fallen gods. And it's almost like that sounds like a revelation on one hand, but in reality it sounds like the world as it's been in a constant state as the bible describes to us. And so what's fascinating about people not having a framework for these things that are coming, whether it's disclosure or it's, you know, what Epstein was actually doing, it is a great shame because they actually do have a framework. It is there in your bible. It does address these things. To reveal that these things are taking place is simply to reveal that the world has been in a static state of being fallen, far lost.

[Narrator]

I'm going to pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got get bigger switch to T mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T mobile is available in U S cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT T mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

So you're running out of closet space. The good news, you don't need to stop shopping.

[Narrator]

You just need to start selling with the realreal.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

The realreal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated Luxury resale. Whether it's that mini bag that can't

[Narrator]

even fit your phone or those boots you never fully broke in, the RealReal handles everything from photography and copywriting to shipping and pricing.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

So you can just sit back, get

[Narrator]

paid and make room for things that actually feel like you.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

And with 10,000 new arrivals every single

[Narrator]

day from top designers like Prada, Celine, Louis Vuitton and Loewe, all for up

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

to 90% off retail, you're bound to find something perfectly on brand to fill that extra closet space with.

[Narrator]

Plus, right now you can get an extra $100 to shop when you sell for the first time. Make room for what feels like you go to therealreal.com to start selling and get your extra hundred dollars to keep [e-mail] that's therealreal.com terms apply

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

for quite some time. I mean, the Bible talks a lot about the worshiping of, you know, false gods, false idols. There's countless instances of men being taken, you know, into slavery. You know, you're warned, the people are warned not to give their children unto Moloch in the Bible. So it's like all the framework is there, but we're going to go through this thing, I think, where a thing will be revealed to us and people will fall away from Christianity much like they already have, you know, given in your description of what happened in 2020. They'll fall away from it thinking that it doesn't have the answers. And it's incredible because everything is centered around a book that has the answers. It's all in there. This thing that we're about to see come to pass is described ad nauseam in the Bible. And. But people are still going to go, wow, well this, this isn't addressed by, by the church. This isn't addressed by Christianity. Therefore this has been, like you said, a control mechanism, a control system for the masses for, you know, the better part of, I guess, human history.

[Matt]

Just to give you a little bit of like, I don't know, background on what we've been doing since we last spoke. I think we were probably in my house the last studio, like a darker background. Since we last spoke. We met Matt and we forced ourselves into his coffee shop.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's right.

[Matt]

Which is why you see people walking back and forth back there. We are in a side room. But Matt has been on some. I, I guess I let Matt explain his mission of, of the, the coffee shop and I think it's a, it's kind of like a fascinating, it is story.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

So it's so. It's such a risky thing giving him compliments, isn't it? Oh, dude, it's crazy. No, I just.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I mean, it's just very rare, that's all.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, we give you.

[Unidentified Male Host]

No. So we just opened a Christian library. Like, we knew the 501C3 system was, like, kind of a decrepit, old rotting away system for, like, a lot before 2020. Right. But then we watched the 2020 thing happen because we opened in February of 2020. And, you know, another major thing that happened in 2020 was that churchgoers were like, well, so do we have to go? Like, we were told all the time, you got to go every Sunday. And now there's like the most, you know, terrifying virus on the planets, killing everybody, and this is the time we don't have to go. Like, I thought it was so important that we go every Sunday. And, like, you get. You gotta go. And so people were just in this crazy scenario, but it just seems like, yeah, it's got to go back to what is going on.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Come on, you're a professional.

[Topher Grace]

Ignore it.

[Unidentified Male Host]

You gotta go back to the. To the home church, man. And then, yeah, especially, like, the podcast world, where you can just like, reach people with the gospel. It's just kind of rad now, like, how many people can be reached by it.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right. But I think what Top was really getting at was, like, you kind of opened up a coffee shop.

[Matt]

I was hoping he'd explain it. Sorry.

[Unidentified Male Host]

The chick got me off track, dude.

[Topher Grace]

Like, I get off track, like, super.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

For the audience who's trying to talk to me. Well, hold on. For the audience who's listening, we decided to open up the. The double doors that lead to just the public area and. And guests are just coming in and they're. They're just staring. But it's just fine. It's fine.

[Matt]

So Matt has this.

[Topher Grace]

This.

[Matt]

This coffee shop that's doing this. Very sneaky. No, it's. It's doing this local thing where it's gathering the local believers here and then.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And.

[Matt]

And kind of like forming. It's. It's a beautiful thing when you see it. And we've. We've done the same. Something similar, but online with crazy people. And it just so happened that now these things have been mixed.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And one is within the other, and it's creating something strange that I don't know exactly what it is, but I.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Would you say it's fair, Matt, to say, like, you opened up a coffee shop because part of your goal was to like help preach the gospel to people. And so you use this. I would say an equal 50 of this location is a Christian library.

[Unidentified Male Host]

It's exactly 50.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's exactly 50. So he, he literally cut the place in half. What could have been more revenue generating? Whatever. You could have sold more goods, you could have put out more snacks.

[Matt]

Business isn't doing that well.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's right. Now instead you dedicated it to various Christian texts and commentaries.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah, that was our thought. Was like, hey, God, if like you want to bring the real ones into the church, you probably don't want to take them to the local 501C3 system where they're just gonna like freeze out and die. So like, if you want to like call real ones, Lord, we'll be a faithful place, you could send them to. Was. Was honestly, that was my wife and I's heart. Was, was to just do that.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah, that's beautiful.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

So I, I think, Vicky, it's what we're trying to get at is like, it's an interesting time. I do think that we're gonna, you know, see a lot of these things come to pass. But where the church, where the 501C3 system might fail and I'm sure there's going to be examples where it, where it succeeds and there's real believers within the system and, and you know, but there are other things happening, right? I mean there is. I, I guess you would call the ministries podcasts. You know, you've been on so many and you've talked to so many people. We're trying to reach people on this thing. The landscape is changing rapidly.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yeah, it absolutely is. It's interesting. And there's the whole other ball of wax that's going to come into it. You know, it's one thing if you're fellowshipping online and you're getting some really good content from content creators who know the word and they're deep diving into it and there may be tearing back the English translations and seeing, okay, what, what really is the context and the culture and the history and the language and the geography of the text. But now we are, I believe we're being groomed as Christians. Look, the infrastructure of your religious system has been infiltrated. The Trojan horses come in and your churches now are just seminary tradition driven coffee shop fellowships for an hour every Sunday. Right. And so it's driving people to the Internet. And now warning ahead, it's going to start driving these isolated people. So what happens as, as genuine believers become more and more and more hungry? We've had the milk for decades. Okay, We've had the seeker friendly stuff for decades. We want deep understanding of the text. We want to know what was the actual Hebraic cultural first century. And before understanding what, what really is the gospel of the kingdom. It has to be more than pray a prayer. Jesus is your new friend, you go to heaven. There's more to it than that.

[Narrator]

We're lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T mobile and US cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually can you point us in the direction of a T mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T mobile is available in U. S cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees. Apply CT mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

So what's going to happen as the churches become more and more seeker friendly, more driven towards activities and entertainment and just feel good. Your weekly group therapy. They're going to start going more and more online for their content and what's going to start happening is people are going to start diving into AI and chatbots for their deeper knowledge. They're going to get tired of the surface level stuff. Stuff. And so what I think we're beginning to see now through early renditions of chat, GPT grok, things like that is we have people now going to not the bibles but they're going to the chat bots asking these deep, deep questions about the theology and it's not even that they're going to get all lies. We know that that's not what the enemy, how the enemy works. But what we're going to then start to I think run into is at what point as these chatbots go from basic algorithms and basic just information gathering and summarizing as it goes from AI to AGI as it goes, perhaps sentient, perhaps sapient, you know, 10 years from now, or whatever, what's going to happen? Or I should say, what is going to be the difference between no longer going to the church, no longer going to the pastors, no longer going to the commentaries, no longer going to the word of God. You're going to these chatbots that have all of this knowledge and they can piece together all of the puzzle pieces for you. At what point, think days of Noah, at what point is that going to be different? The men in the book of Enoch where it said that the watchers came down and shared the mysteries of heaven that men wanted men sought to have. At what point does the phone, the chat bot become the tree of knowledge, of good and evil? And at what point are we culpable as believers for partaking in it?

[Topher Grace]

Dang.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's a fascinating thing to say because just this previous episode we were talking about shortcuts to knowledge and wisdom and how these things rarely pan out. I, I don't know how to quantify it or how to express it, but it does seem to be that so much of the problem with this, let's say like coveted information or like, you know, even, even what the wisdom schools hope to impart on people. And, and obviously it, it's a slippery slope. It leads to gnostic beliefs, it leads to things like, you know, the God of this realm is the demiurge and, and all these crazy things. But it seems like knowledge that is achieved through shortcuts. It's, it's, it's almost like the, the, the reason that we couldn't eat from the, the tree of knowledge of good and evil is because you wouldn't let your child be privy to a concept way before their time. Right? Way before they were matured enough to, to really understand this thing. Because knowledge without the experiential wisdom that, you know, comes with learning the thing through a process is damaging. And I wonder, you know, like we were saying in the last conversation, where things are going to go when the world is, suddenly has the, the veil pulled back and is exposed all these things, right? If they're going to do disclosure. How easily can you be sold a narrative like the Pleiadians? The Pleiadians are the, are the benign space homies and the Grays are the bad guys. And it's like, you know, without experience, without being receptive to the truth for a long period of time and allowing the Holy Spirit to kind of work on you and reveal things to you, And. And go through the process of being wrong so that you can be right again. And. And, you know, be in a place of confidence for a while. And then what happens is eventually, through enough information, you're proven that some aspect of what you thought was real is no longer real. That's a long process, man. It's the journey to truth is to be incorrect a lot on the way there. And I don't know what that does to people when all of a sudden you get a freshly baked narrative and it's wheeled out to you, whether it's disclosure or otherwise.

[Unidentified Male Host]

But this has been going on. That's the Sketchesaurus rex thing about this whole thing is from the time I started going to church, even 20 years ago, I heard of pastors getting their sermons off the Internet. And all of a sudden, all the qualification to be a pastor in the church of the Living God was that you could give a good speech like. Like that you could be a good public speaker. And all of a sudden it just became like this politician vibe thing where a dude is, like, talking from some points he got at cemetery school. He's just. He just typed out some kind of, like, plot. He's just typed out some kind of speech. And as long as he can do that on Sunday, like, everybody's good. And there's just so many times, like, you hear a dude talking and you're. He's not necessarily having wrong doctrine or anything you're disagreeing with, but you're just listening to this dude speak and maybe he's saying right things. Yeah, you're saying, like, this dude doesn't know the Lord. Like, I. I don't know how to explain it, but, like, this dude doesn't know the Lord. And then there's other people.

[Topher Grace]

They're not.

[Unidentified Male Host]

They don't have flawless doctrine. They don't sound super smart or whatever, but, like, you could just tell they know the Lord, you know? You know what I'm saying? And so, like, that is just gonna go on steroids now because anybody. Yeah. Could get the AI and the grog

[Topher Grace]

and you'll know them by their fruits.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

And there's a thing, there's power. When, like, just like the chemistry of four of us hanging in person, our biofields, our energetics, together as believers. I mean, that's an uplifting thing. And I think the. The modus operandi of the Technocrats is to make every man and woman an island unto themselves, make data king. Instead of turning data into wisdom, instead of experiencing the data and using the data to Drive towards experience and then wise experience and then therefore be an elder in the clan at some point or be a pastor at some point where you can actually speak from experience.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right? Yeah. And. And to be isolated in that a man, every man in island onto his own is to potentially exist in some sort of an echo chamber to it. It's, you know, so it's not only are you isolated and you're not able to put any of this wisdom or this, this, this information into practice, but it's. Or application. It's also like there's no way to check it. There's no way to test it up

[Topher Grace]

against something that echo chamber that you, you talk about. Like, I, I've written about how AI is autistic intelligence because it's recursive. And whenever you see a recursive system, it repeats. And so it'd be like you literally in a hall of mirrors. So in the programming of it with the Eliza effect, it has you. It will always repeat to you your question, right. And make you sound like, oh, you're so for asking, dude.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It does that.

[Topher Grace]

And yeah, and then it's recursive. What it will keep doing is it will keep referencing the first point that you brought to it. And that's a salesman tactic. That's the sandwich technique.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Is that to sort of reaffirm your own confidence in.

[Topher Grace]

Exactly. It's. They, they figured out in the 60s and 70s that essentially when you, when you use the Eliza effect, when you compliment somebody on their question, any. You could have like the, the robot talk to you like this, and you're going to associate that with a human behavior. It goes straight from the book how to Win Friends and Influence People. Yeah, it's like, oh, compliment them on their question, dude.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

We have somebody. I'm not going to say, but we've had somebody on this show who does that to me. And like, I can feel this attempt to like, stroke my ego. And thank God I am always grounded in the idea that I am fundamentally an idiot. Because as you're saying this to me, it's like, I'll say something and this dude will be like, excellent question, Raven. Raven, you are so smart. You are ahead of it. And I'm like, I only do that

[Unidentified Male Host]

once in a while.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Can we get back to Vicki?

[Unidentified Male Host]

I just want to hear her say cool stuff.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I'm saying like the coolest stuff.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I want to ask Vicky a particular question. I want to drag this conversation to something I hope to talk about Vicki, which is the reality of the spiritual realm. And you said it before, it's like the supernatural, whatever language you want to use.

[Matt]

Is she. I don't. So we recently got into a bit of a.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, I don't want to, I don't want to rehash that.

[Matt]

It's like we.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I feel like we're doing this every time.

[Matt]

She knows.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, it doesn't. What I want to get to is

[Topher Grace]

Vicky, do you want to know?

[Unidentified Male Host]

Alberino.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Goodness gosh. She doesn't want. Alberto.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

I've heard things. I've heard things.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

We got to this, this conversation. Oh, you got the text messages,

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

the

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

screenshots, not to, not to communicate with us anymore. So the, some of the contention on that episode was the existence, the fundamental existence of a spiritual realm. And I found that we, we really got lost in maybe the language and definitions, which is a little unfortunate because we're dealing with something that is difficult to define because of its inability to be. You know, is. If intangible is the word is tangled, tangentable. I don't know, man, doesn't matter. You're actually somebody who has first hand experience. And you as well, Topher. I'd like to get into some of your experiences on this episode as well. And I think this is where the importance of definitions falls away a little bit. Because when you have an experience that seems to take place in maybe a realm that is not strictly the physical realm, you cross that threshold and whatever you want to call it becomes really unimportant. Because the fact of the matter is there is another aspect to this reality that is as real, but it's just different than what we are comfortable with in our everyday comings and goings. I was hoping you could talk about that a little bit. Just this reality of the spiritual realm.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yeah, absolutely. I really like the way you preface that because there is a deflection mode that antagonists like to use. So when you're trying to talk about a reality, they want to completely sort of avoid the topic altogether and then just wrestle semantics with you. Is it supernatural or preternatural? Then it's just a miracle. Well, no, a miracle isn't supernatural. And look, here's the thing with language even right now, if I was to talk to someone 100% equal in my communication meaning, we're both females, we were both born in the same year, we both know all the same slang, we went to the same college, the same school, we're at the same iq. We have every single thing lined up to perfection, which would be the ideal communication back and forth. Guess what? We would still miscommunicate. We would still misunderstand each other. We would still fail to envision exactly what that other person was explaining. You're talking about a place I've never been to. You're talking about music I've never heard or something I've never tasted. Language is extremely limiting.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

So then when you add to the. The foibles of communication, all of the things that aren't perfect, now you're talking to people of different generations and words have etymologically morphed, they've changed, meaning they've flipped into their opposites and mean the exact opposite. You know, bad is good and fat is cool and all this Stu. And then you have got.

[Narrator]

We're lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Ookle of speed test intelligence data at 2H 2025.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Bigger network.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

The combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Time which now makes it difficult. Every once in a while I geek out on YouTube and I listen to all these old videos where people are speaking like Anglo Saxon or like the origins of the English language. And if you go back to like the year 800, an American born English only speaker, you're not going to understand hardly one word that's being spoken in the English language. And maybe about the time you get to the 1400s, you can start to piece certain words out. But you go back thousands of years, you go into a completely different culture, you go into a completely different language. The way that language changes the way that different people use it. In fact, if you're going to do a Word study in Scripture. I see people make this mistake all the time. People have a word and they're like, I'm going to do a word study on grace. And so they take every single time the word grace is used from Genesis through Revelation. Well, first of all, you can't do that because the Hebrew is not always an equal cognate to the Greek. So you have to limit it to, I'm only going to look it up in the Old Testament or I'm only going to look it up in the New Testament. Then even like in the New Testament, you've got all of these differences of, of how to use a word. Like when Paul talks about the law and works. When Paul talks about works, he's using it differently than when James uses that word, that Greek word for works, because it looks in English like those two are having a sword fight. And so you can't even when you do a word study, just pull everything from the New Testament. You actually have to pull every time that author use that word in that language, because that author will consistently use it the same way. And so it gets into all sorts of interesting rabbit holes when you start doing that. And in fact, you will start to see modern evangelical Christianity break down quite significantly when you find out that people aren't doing their word studies that way. And that's just the people that bother going back into the Greek. You know, if all you're doing is reading your English, you know, and if all you got is the message of the niv, God forbid, you're never going to figure it out. And so I really like that you said that. And sorry to belabor that point, Raven, but it's like if someone is going to bring up one of your sacred cows, okay, and you are immediately going to just deflect by nitpicking a word choice. And now you're just arguing linguistics. Come on, you grow a pair. You. The. A question was presented to you. Some of these things are hard. You know what I don't understand, guys? Why the biggest, hugest deal in the world is if we as Christians, even if we've been Christians our entire lives and raised in Christian homes like me, if the worst case scenario is you're wrong, who cares? Who cares? And. And what I have found in my life is if, as I've gotten older and I've gotten better about keeping my mouth shut and, and not having to be right about everything, if you actually hear someone out, even if it's disturbing to you, you have cognitive dissonance. It's Distressing. I always ask my. I always ask myself the question, why is this frightening to me? Like, why does it have to be this way? Why am I white knuckling it? And then I have to get to the very bottom of the fear of, like, why my life or my religion or my God would be completely. How. How would God and Jesus and the gospel cease to exist if I made this adjustment? And when I. When I do look some of those demons in the eyes and I've come to some radical changes in what I believe from what I believed as a kid or what I believed in Bible college. And it came through having the guts to admit I was afraid of this, because it's like shifting sand. If you went. The longer we stand somewhere and it gets cemented underneath us, we feel firm, we feel safe. And when all of a sudden we realize the cement beneath us has melted. It's kind of like, you know, when you take those first few steps into the ocean and the sand shifts and you're like, whoa. It's disorienting. And. And so I think that in my own experience, those things, that I've been able to really roll up my sleeves and dig deep into the Hebrew or the Greek or the culture or the history, and I find out that this person was right and I was wrong. I have never had an experience like that in my life. Even if it has been a very difficult sort of existential crisis, which I've had many in the last 10 years, even if the process is frightening. I have never had an experience where I come out on the other side having radically shifted, in my opinion, where the exchange for what I used to believe is the more precious or the more whole doctrine. Like whenever I am willing to go to war with something and I come out on the other side having radically shifted, in my opinion. There's always a deeper understanding of the gospel, a more full whole picture of who Christ is, what his love was, what the cross really was, what mercy is, what death and damnation and judgment and resurrection. Like, I've never exchanged a. A 1970s church tradition that I learned in seven in Sunday school for something lesser. God has never. God has never wrestled something precious out of my hands and given me something crappier. Whenever I'm willing, whenever I'm willing to hold my doctrines like this instead of this, whenever I'm willing to do this. Sometimes he takes it and it hurts because I thought it was beautiful. He never replaces it with something disappointing or.

[Unidentified Male Host]

What is that, though, Vicki? Like what? Like what is that? That People, they, they love. Like, I talked to a dude before

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

books, and he said he has, he

[Unidentified Male Host]

has all this doctrine. He has all his doctrine that he already believes. He has all his theology. And I said, well, like, bro, because like, I go in the Bible every morning and I'm in expectation to find something new if that includes changing a thought that I had about something else, I'm in expectation. And I'm like, treasure hunting. That's like, why I'm hungry to read the Bible. And I was like, bro, like, so why do you read the Bible then if you've already got all your doctrine set? And he's like, just to reinforce my doctrine. And I'm just like, I don't even know what that is, bro. Like, you're saying you're talking to me in Chinese. I, I don't even understand. Like, is it just the same as, like, Republicans and Democrats? But it's in the church. It's like, once you have all these things that you just. That's what your party believes. You just can't let go of it. Or like, what is that?

[Topher Grace]

It's idolship.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Safety, too. I mean, you can go to all the negatives. Like, it's pride and it's fear. Like, sure, I, I think until, like, to use a metaphor, until we view studying the Word of God like parasailing, we're not ever going to get the full joy and excitement out of it. Like, there's fear in jumping off of the side of a mountain. There's risk. You really could knock into something and hurt yourself. You know, there's risk. You never know when you do that if you're going to bleed a little bit. But the exhilaration of having no ground under your feet and flying through the air like, it's the exhilaration of it. And if, if studying the Word of God isn't this perfect dance between fear and exhilaration, you're just reading a boring old book. No wonder half the people think the book, the Bible's boring. They don't know how to jump off the cliff with it.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You know, I think one of the big issues with struggling over definitions as well. Like I said earlier, it's very convenient to do that when you're not faced with the immediate reality of it. But people who have been through a thing and are facing and tangling with the reality of the spiritual, the supernatural are. Their frame is, Is adjusted. And suddenly what's important is dealing with it instead of defining it. Right? And so what's not lost on me is that if you're caught up in definitions and the minutiae and all this, all this language, you're not in a position where you can war against it. Right. So, you know, in other words, you can put it in simple terms like a bear. It's like, if I don't know the name of this thing, but it's coming for me and I have to prepare myself and I have to figure out how to deal with it, what its nature is. I would say that's more important, it's nature. What is its nature? What does it intend to do with me? What are its intentions, you know, for me? And how do I navigate this? And if I'm worried as it's approaching me about, like, what to call this thing, that's a complete waste of resources and effort and energy and concentration and focus and all of these things. And, and if the goal is to ground people, like, let's say ground people in the gospel. Right. And. And part of the biblical worldview is coming to the understanding that you are. You're in a supernatural world, that the spiritual realm is very real. Despite, you know, whatever. We. Maybe we don't have great language like you talked about. Vicki. To define this thing in order to operate within it, in order to live in such a way as. As to know that your actions and your words and. And your will here in the physical realm have real spiritual implications. Getting. Getting hunkered down in, like, what is this thing called and how do we define it? Is. It's not just a waste of time. It's a fool's errand. It's a. It's a dangerous distraction, actually, because it's not going to wait for you to define it. Spiritual warfare is not going to wait for you to define it. The spiritual realm is not going to wait to engage with you until you can accurately define it.

[Matt]

We have a dude here that has engaged with the spiritual realm. Actually kind of. I don't know if it's a good point to.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I would love to talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Topher, you've had this near death experience.

[Topher Grace]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And would you mind sharing that with us? I don't think we've heard this before.

[Matt]

Sure.

[Topher Grace]

I was a little. I was a little boy. I was four years old and I had gut dysbiosis. But back then they didn't call it gut dysbiosis. They thought it was just food allergies.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Okay.

[Topher Grace]

But it got to a point where I had leaky gut so bad that I became allergic to everything I ate. And so when I was in the icu, my vitals crashed and I ended up choking out. I ended up, you know.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

How old were you?

[Matt]

Four.

[Topher Grace]

Four. And then when I. When I died, I was on the other side. And because I was so sick as a little kid when I was in that realm.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Realm? What do you mean by that? I'm just playing. I'm just playing here and there.

[Topher Grace]

It was like, one. The one thing, because I tell people ask me this all the time. I was 4 years old in that realm.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's interesting.

[Topher Grace]

Like, people like, oh, you're an old soul. I was like, I have no idea. I just know when I was on that side, I was the same age, but I was in this, like, pure, like. Like Vicki said. It's very hard to describe it in words, but, like, I felt zero pain. I actually, for the first time ever, my existence as a. As a body when I was little was in a lot of pain because of all the sickness I had. And so this is the first. I was in this, like, euphoria of love and feeling just, like, fully embraced by, like, this incredible love and compassion. And I'm. I'm there. And then I hear this voice. And it's a voice that's familiar, but I didn't know the person. And the voice is like, it's not your time yet. And that. I was like, I was blissing out. I didn't care. And then the voice is like, christopher, it's like, it's not your time. And. And then I got a little bit petulant. I was like, no, I'm. I'm going to stay. And she's. Then she said, no, no, Christopher, it's your time. You have to go back. And then as soon as she said that, I could hear my mom crying. And then as soon as I heard my mom crying, I, like, dropped. Like, it was like a literal drop out of that. Out of that state of being.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Did you feel like an entry back into your body?

[Topher Grace]

I. I, like, opened my eyes and my mother and my dad were over because I was in the hospital. And I could hear, like, the. The thing beeping in the corner, and the doctor was there, and there was this other being there that as a little kid, I just thought it was somebody that was working there.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Topher Grace]

And then, yeah, in hearing my mother cry, I. The second I felt sadness, I was pulled out of the. You, like, that euphoria, love that I was in, and I dropped back into this realm.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

When. When you were there, do you remember any. Any other sensations? I mean, like the feeling of love. But what about your other senses? Sight or smell?

[Topher Grace]

What I could see was really kind of cool. Like, you know, Florida sunsets, especially if you're in the Keys and you see like the coral colors. The coral, the purple.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

You know, the peach colors, like all that was. And I could see beings, but they weren't like defined. They weren't like, like defined, like, you know, looking at us right here. But I, I, I could sense them more than I could see them. And they did look angelic. Like they look like, you know, the prototypical, like very ethereal. And I could feel them as like sentient beings. None of them spoke to me. They were actually arranged like a choir would be arranged. Huh. And then I could see the colors behind them. And I was just like, it was, it was like my little mind. After I came back and was getting healthy, I always just associated that with heaven because it felt so, I felt at home. First of all, I felt home. I felt like, oh, right. And there was no fear. I felt zero fear. And I've heard people say that children have a different, like if children die, like all children go to heaven, that type of thing. They probably go, I believe that's dogs. They probably go through a different aid or whatever, however that works. I don't know that that feeling, like, was just so incredible, like, and I've never ever had the doubt of God ever just because of that. Love was so, like, it was so saturating, it was like so all encompassing that there was never like, like all the different experiences I've had since then where I was close to death or whatever, none of them ever phased me.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I was like, just like, yeah, if

[Topher Grace]

that's what I have waiting for me.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, seems like a relief.

[Narrator]

We're lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I mean, Vicki, thoughts?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yeah. So Topher, I'm interested in. Did that have a direct or immediate impact on your being healed from the leaky gut or.

[Topher Grace]

I came directly back from that. For one year I had to eat nothing but apricots because of my gut.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Interesting.

[Topher Grace]

So they put me, they put me on a mono fruit diet. All my vitals came back. I couldn't mix, oddly enough. I went on like a real like the only thing my body could handle. I couldn't mix enzymes in foods. So I could never eat dairy and eat meat at the same time. I couldn't eat anything, anything with any synthetic colorings. My body was hyperallergetic to all of that. And I was like a test, test tube baby. They would give me 60 shots every six months on each shoulder and I was a pin cushion. So there were who knows what was in all those shots. I mean back then that's the way they did so called allergy shots.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, I got that when I was a kid. They did it to my back, a whole grid of them.

[Topher Grace]

And so yeah, but I, I recovered. And what was cool, I think I. I think my body's passing was actually there for my parents because my parents were fighting a lot. They weren't like, they weren't jiving Right. And then that kind of like brought them like some joy for a little bit. Me coming back kind of frames things,

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

puts it in perspective.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah. What's important, they stayed together for like another five years and then it was over. But like that whole thing, I think whatever my path was as a little one was like I was like sort of this vector for my sensitivity to their dis. Like their disease, their, their problems cause, cause it to be like a wonderful mirror for them, you know, because I've seen that happen too. Like in my consciousness. I've seen different people be like the mirror for the other ones in their life.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Sure.

[Topher Grace]

So yeah, that was that, that was. And I've never like since in the other people that I know that I've had near death experiences.

[Unidentified Male Host]

They.

[Topher Grace]

We all kind of share like a little like, like intuitive knowing of the other.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah. Because there's like, no fear.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

What's the nature of that? Knowing, like what might you know it

[Unidentified Male Host]

before you talk to them or once they start talking, then you, it's just

[Topher Grace]

like kind of like, you know, when you have your best friend around, like you just kind of like you can finish their sentence.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Top and Raven do that to me a lot.

[Topher Grace]

It's not, it's not that you have like any, like I don't have any psychic thing with them. It's just more like I intuitively know where they're going or how they see something.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's interesting.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah. And I've had two really close friends for over 25 years that both of them had their near death experiences in high school. And like as soon as we met, we were all like, oh, like, yes,

[Matt]

you've been there kind of thing.

[Topher Grace]

And all of us have the same thing. It's just like God is real and alive and there's like nothing to be scared of.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, that's huge because, I mean, you know, I don't know if we were talking about this in the previous show too, but this, this concept of do not fear, don't be discouraged for, you know, the Lord is with you always, right. That fear. It's interesting that when you heard and you and you experience sadness is when you left that place.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I just wonder about like sadness is kind of fear adjacent, right. There are certain emotions that are. If fear is a tree, that its branches might be anxiety, depression, anger, sadness.

[Topher Grace]

But I was four years old. Like I was not an advanced four year old.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, no, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying sadness is kind of fear adjacent. Right. Because sadness in some ways is the anticipation of the impact of a thing. Like you're thinking about a thing that has happened. The sadness of your mother, the tears of your mother. And like what this means. I, I just wonder if there's room for that sort of a thing like let's say in heaven, right. Which even, even that gets a little bit wonky because there's a second heaven and third heaven and you know, all these different spiritual realms. But it doesn't seem like fear has a place in those realms. It doesn't feel like anger or hatred or maybe even sadness has a place in those, in those realms. And so it's, it's just fascinating to me that you should have felt that sadness and that was the, the last thing before you came out of there. And.

[Topher Grace]

Well, I mean the, my guardian angel was very emphatic that it wasn't my time So I don't know how that all works. I don't know how I, I just, she was just like, it's not your time.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Like, are you, are you familiar with, I mean, I have to imagine you're familiar with stories like these, Vicki.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yeah, yeah. Actually this is another topic where a lot of Christians get the cognitive dissonance because it's not talked about in the church, you know, and it's not believed in the church and whatnot. If anyone's interested on a comprehensive study with a lot of interviews and case studies involved, Sean Tabitt actually wrote a book on near death experiences. I can't remember the exact title of the book. NDE obviously is in, in the title. It was put out by Destiny Image Publishing. But yeah, Sean Tabitt has, has written an entire book about it. And so, yeah, I'm absolutely familiar with it. And you know, it's interesting the.

[Narrator]

I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Ogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk, text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

The juxtaposition of you, you know, you've got near death experiences where people experience heaven or some sort of paradise or some sort of love. And it's interesting what you said to Topher because I'm thinking of the verse, there is no fear in love. So if you're in the, in the presence of Christ, it would be impossible for you to feel fear. It would be so over and you know, it would, would. It would knock that out. It would, it wouldn't be possible. But then it gets confusing. Because there are people that have ayahuasca trips and stuff where they're talking to ascended masters and they will come back saying, I felt nothing but love and light. And how do you make sense of that? Like that, that to me is, I

[Topher Grace]

can speak on that because for 10 years, 10 years I was in the ayahuasca circle.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Okay, please do. What, what is the difference?

[Topher Grace]

Yeah, yeah. Like when I lived in Costa Rica, I was like in medicine circles, I, I lived in an area where there were tons of ayahuasca retreats and I, my business had me intertwined with all that. And I have to say it was nothing like the shamanic journeys, the medicine journeys and things like that. None of them ever even came close to the presence of God that I felt as a 4 year old. And then also when I, when I was saved, when I first, when that experience.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Did you feel like you got in another realm from the ayahuasca, though?

[Topher Grace]

Yeah, but it's much more of, like, it's much more of an astral realm. It's a lower, it's a lower realm. So the astral realms are lower.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

So for these, these, these people that talk about the beings of love and light and we know Satan can parade as an angel of light, though. Interestingly, the stories that I've read about people who've done ayahuasca, they do talk about how they have to kind of go through a death before they, they get the good stuff. So what, what is that then? Are, are they just like tripping our dopamine and giving us like a, like a response? And because we don't have anything to compare it to, we, it's like smoke and mirrors.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Or how are imitation maybe?

[Topher Grace]

Like, yeah, imitation, because like the DMT that, you know, there's books written on it, one's called like the Spirit molecule, Spirit God molecule or whatever. It isn't the same experience like at all for me. And when I say I did it a few times, I did it like

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

50 times, it wasn't like, well, technically a few is three or more.

[Topher Grace]

So, so in that. What, what was interesting for me was a, a really good friend of mine, a friend that had had the near death experience himself. He was somebody that was also in that realm and he and I both knew, we both had done so much work on ourselves into our consciousness that we constantly saw the folly of people that were going in and doing, you know, quote unquote medicine work, because they hadn't, they were like, you brought it up earlier. It's, it's a terrible thing to like, get knowledge or get anything without earning it. And you never know how earnest a person is in their spiritual practice. For real. Like maybe the closest people in your life. But you have so many people that talk a good game.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's fashionable, right? Yeah, it became fashionable to, to go there and do ayahuasca.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah. But like, we were exposed to it in like 07, like before it became like a real fashionable thing. It was like one of these things where you cannot, you cannot skip the work.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Topher Grace]

You know, God, I don't, I don't think God gives you like little cheat codes. And it's like here, just because you have the extra money to go to a Peruvian shaman or whatever, you're now in like Flynn, there are, there aren't any cheat codes.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah. God puts us through a sort of refining fire. The struggles in our life impart a certain wisdom on us. And I think each person gets this kind of unique bag of.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Tricks. I don't want to call them tricks, but you know what I'm saying, like, your walk is very unique. And yeah, what is everybody, if you just have the money to go to Costa Rica, everybody gets the same bag of unlocked.

[Topher Grace]

And even in that. What was great about my situation was I got to see so many different shamans. I got to see see ones that were the real deal. I got to see the shysters. I got to see the people who are making their medicine. I got to see the people that weren't making the medicine. I was seeing the people that were cutting the quote unquote medicine.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, no.

[Topher Grace]

I got to see the Israeli influence in that whole thing. I, I what?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Why is that so funny to you, Matt? Why'd you laugh?

[Matt]

We didn't ask for that.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Don't laugh at God bless Israel. What are you doing? Dude, stop, please stop it.

[Topher Grace]

And so in watching all of it and being in the back, because I was the guy that was working on the people that were working on people.

[Matt]

Why is there is real.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I'm sorry, I thought this was just a mad thing. What is fascinating.

[Topher Grace]

I know.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, no, no.

[Unidentified Male Host]

That a little bit.

[Matt]

Because Matt's going to want to say, oh, these guys see Israel and every rocket. That's not necessarily true.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I did not.

[Topher Grace]

Oh, I didn't know that you have a thing with them.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And there's nothing else.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I'm just saying if you took any ethnicity, you could pick them apart and

[Matt]

say, oh, can you tell us about the Italian influence?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Tell us about the Italian influence in Iowa. AYAHUASCA Please, Mother, Mother. Ayahuasca. Italian, right?

[Topher Grace]

No, the area. The area that I was in had a lot of Israeli investment.

[Matt]

Okay.

[Topher Grace]

And the Israeli investment in that area. A bunch of those guys got into distributing.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And was there a lot of rabbis doing.

[Matt]

Oh, no, no. Are you talking about the government? Is that what you mean, or.

[Topher Grace]

No, I'm talking about Israelis.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Oh, Jewish people. Nowhere to make money. They're just conducting business, making some jack down there on the ayahuasca trade.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's all.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I get it.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Okay.

[Unidentified Male Host]

I mean, I'm not saying that's good that bad, too.

[Topher Grace]

I knew some very beautiful families from Israel that had, like, cacao farms and like, coffee farms, all different types of businesses. But there was a very strong contingent because no matter what, the Israelis are excellent at marketing and they're a tribe business in general. And. And so if one of them starts to serve the ayahuasca, their whole country is going to find out about it like that. And then there's like a place where they can all speak Yiddish to each other in Hebrew.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And that's got to be scary. Imagine being on ayahuasca and accidentally stumbled into the Yiddish tent.

[Matt]

Were they. Were they partaking in the ritual or

[Topher Grace]

just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what was weird.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's fascinating.

[Matt]

From a religious aspect or secular.

[Topher Grace]

No, no, Like, I. I wouldn't say. I would never would have directed anybody of my ilk in their direction.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Sure.

[Topher Grace]

I wouldn't have done it because they would spit on them for more than one reason, but. And you know, I. I knew too many things with the behind the scenes side of things. It's just like anybody, like when you see retreats run for, like, whether it's vegetarianism or veganism or any of the isms, you get to see, like, I got to see the back of the house operations because I was the one building the buildings for these people.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

And I'd be like, oh, you guys are just running. This is just a bit like, we're

[Unidentified Male Host]

talking about this point. Dude.

[Topher Grace]

We were just talking about this with podcasters. Yeah. You're like, oh, you can't make an idol out of anybody.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Correct.

[Topher Grace]

And so I was looking at this as like, oh, I'm gonna get my spiritual guidance from, like, you know.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Well, I had the same thing being a flooring guy doing churches. You know how many churches we put flooring in over the years? Never got the gospel preached to me.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Ever.

[Unidentified Male Host]

No, ever on the job site by the pastor who was there or anybody in the church that Was there. So it's kind of like the same thing. It was like a spiritual thing. You're there to do the work. They don't really like, they're not really preaching to you or you see all the behind the scenes.

[Topher Grace]

And then I got to see like the real behind scenes because I lived there for 15 years and I had to do business. And I got to see whether a person had integrity or not.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

I got to see whether they had integrity with other people within the community. I got to see if they were living their message. I got to see how they would market relative to other things. And it was just like, oh, man, this is a sheist.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah, that was my conclusion too.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You know what? I'll go ahead again.

[Matt]

Your conclusion of the Ayahuasca community is that.

[Topher Grace]

That.

[Matt]

I guess it is. It is real, but it's just like a grift.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Realm too. He said a lower realm, not just in the spirit realm.

[Topher Grace]

That was the thing. That was the thing I was trying to really communicate with people. And Vicki, you'll know about this is like what I started to see is number one, that whole realm that you go to when you're under DMT can be electronically manipulated. There would be broadcasts. Like if you have 30 people that are all under the influence of the same thing, they become an antenna arrest array.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Topher Grace]

That antenna array gives off a frequency that they. They would vector into. So just like they do with the Steven Greer stuff where they'll Binaural beats. Yeah, yeah, they'll. The CE5 where they'll stand like lights in the sky and stuff like that.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, that's kind of what they're doing with the drums. Right. It's a. It's a frequency based, rhythmic bass kind of thing to get you into a trance state. It just shows you like. Yeah. The fundamental ways. Even the. Even the natives knew that one of the fundamental ways to manipulate this experience is through. You know, you call them beats. They're beats. Right? I mean, so, yeah, when you find out that what I want beats, I

[Topher Grace]

want to be clear, there are people that are being very authentic with it and aren't doing that. But for the most part, what would occur is like they. I. My second and last ceremony I ever did was literally I was having UNESCO talking points coming to me. After. After it's the United Nations.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

What? What?

[Topher Grace]

No, listen, like, one of my clients was General Albert Stubbleblin, and he was the guy who invented remote viewing and he was living in. In Panama. No, I'm not kidding. Like, I was literally his builder and I was his attache finding him property. And he was teaching me about Agenda 21 and UNESCO and all this stuff. And then so I, he like, was giving me the white papers like in 2010 and 2011. And, and so I would. I was in this ceremony and literally I was having people come up to me after the second cup, like

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

the,

[Topher Grace]

the alien, the, the, this, the, the star brotherhood is here saying we have to save the planet.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You're a star seed.

[Topher Grace]

And all like, and everything that they were saying was stuff that I was reading in Agenda 2030 as a. As an addendum to Agenda 21. And so I went to the shaman and I was like, like, I was so excited. I was like, dude, there's a free. The frequency range that we're in, they're broadcasting into right now.

[Narrator]

Far lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. Getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular store.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Whoa.

[Topher Grace]

And then everybody. And then I could like, I could actually sense where the, the, the broadcast was coming from because you can see your visual acuity quadruples in your. No, your, your auditory acuity quadruples. Your visual acuity triples. So you can see a lot more things. You can hear a lot more things. And it was so nuts. I was like. I was, I was like, dude, they're broadcasting to us. Everybody's saying the same thing. Everybody's saying the same thing.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's wild.

[Topher Grace]

But he was under the same delusion. And then, then the lights came in the sky And I knew it was all fake.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Take that.

[Topher Grace]

Actually.

[Matt]

That kind of sheds a new light on this idea of the alien interaction that. That we've been looking at. This. The phenomenon.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I mean, that's. That, that's. I.

[Topher Grace]

No, I, I'm totally. I'm totally under the.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

The.

[Topher Grace]

I'm. I'm under the. His name's Spencer from Florida.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Okay. I was like, what's happening?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Somebody stopped by with the.

[Matt]

With.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I think he said Spencer from Florida. Okay, all right, cool.

[Topher Grace]

So go on.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Amazing.

[Topher Grace]

Gets weird. Yeah. Especially from Flora has a great, great Instagram site. So I, I think a lot of the things that, like we were talking about, you know, in the last episode. So many of the things that we see up in the sky are like clandestine operations.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

But so many of the things are also broadcast into us. They've had. Oh yeah, they've had skull to skull transmission since the 60s.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

They've had all these ways of transmitting this stuff. And this is why, like, I really love what you guys are talking about with the.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

The.

[Topher Grace]

The fakery of the. The alien. You know, whatever you call it, the

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

alien disclosure narrative, whatever.

[Topher Grace]

Because the tech that the humans have had is actually. It's just mimicking like they're the ones that are feeding all of the storylines and all these science fiction movies, and at the same time, they're hiding the tech that actually does that stuff.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

They're the muses. Right. They're inspiring, man, to. To engage in these, in these works. I. You know. Okay.

[Matt]

Which is why it's like, man, when we come to these, like, solid conclusions on what this phenomenon is.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah.

[Matt]

And. And we can have all the terms defined.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Defined phenomena.

[Matt]

Well, and say, like, as a matter of fact, like, this is what's happening. And everybody fall in line and trust science.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's just like. Here, I wanna. I wanna kick this to Vicki. I want to get you on what. What Topher just described. And then I. Yeah, for you. But let's, let's first just get your thoughts on.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yeah, I'm loving this because you're now getting your chocolate in my peanut butter. Topher. Because this. I've been studying the. The dream hacking. Because I'm. So this is again where our definitions. Let's all get on the same page. As long as we continue using one broad term to describe multiple dream states. I'm asleep. I'm dreaming. As if there's no gray areas in there. Okay. So if you are in a sleep paralysis slash nightmare type of a situation where you're no longer dreaming. You're lucid. You know, you're in some different dream state now because your dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which is supposed to be shut down when you're asleep, is active. All of a sudden you have an inner monologue. You're interacting with yourself. You have all full memories of your life. You have your personality, your communication style. There's cohesion to the storyline playing out before you. It's not nonsensical like a normal defrag dream. You have full access to your moral code, your religion, your fight or flight, your. You have all your emotions. So you're no longer dreaming. And you can call it astral projection or an out of body or you can call it whatever you want. What I call it is REM abduction because you have now been pulled to this other place. You're going to wake up if you have any memory of it all. It was just a dream. Oh, I had the worst dream last night. You're not going to think about it. But what's starting to happen now? I love what you're saying about all of the broadcasting. I loved that word because now you've got people that are not just talking individually. Okay, let's go into the quantum mechanics of this entanglement. Okay, now it's not just, I'm Vicki and I've had sleep paralysis my whole life because of my trauma. And I've had all these bad dreams and occasionally a demon will ride in on the coattails of that bad dream and you'll scare me. And like, that's all it is. Don't worry about it. Now. Now we are starting to see people talk about collective dream spaces.

[Topher Grace]

Yes.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Okay, now we're talking about. Yep. Liminal spaces. We're talking about the mall world. It's the same mall. It's the same stores that you're meeting the same people. It's the same patterns. It's this people are drawing maps and the maps are lining up and so. And the broadcasting that goes on. Now, I've only had this happen two or three times so far, but I always go back to. I remember in 2018, if you told people that your smart TV could hear you, you were a lunatic. Like, this is 2018, right? But you know, you'd be sitting around talking about, oh, my vacuum cleaner broke. And then all of a sudden all these vacuum cleaner ads and commercials are coming up. And you know, if it happens once or twice, you know, synchronicity, just a coincidence, whatever. But now we're to the point, you Know what? Five, six, seven years later, where now it's like, well, of course the smart TV is listening to you. Of course it is. You know, no one thinks you're crazy. Yeah, yeah, exactly, right? So it's the same thing with the, with the dream hacking. So what's happened to me now, like three times is I will have a dream and a particular person, usually a celebrity that I care nothing about, which would be all of them, will show up in my dream. Okay? Some. Some buddy will. Will. Will appear in my dream. Never seen any of their movies, don't know anything about them, don't care. It's not like I had posters of them up on my wall when I was a kid or anything. And that next day when I wake up, my Instagram feed will be chalked full of stuff for that person.

[Topher Grace]

That's weird.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

And, and I don't know if it's a witch came first, the chicken or the egg. Now this is what I do whenever those things happen, whether it's on my Instagram feed or not. Anytime I have a dream about a celebrity especially, but some or like something like that, I will intentionally, no matter how curious I am or how intrigued I am or how lured into the narrative I am, you know, if it's a really good dream or whatever, I will by absolute resolve and self discipline, not search that out on the Internet. I am not going to go and feed the algorithm. I'm not going to train these people that every time you plant something in my head, I'm going to become obsessed with it or I'm going to follow your lead. No, I get to pick what I want to think about. And if I didn't care about this person before, there's no need for me to care about them now. And so I do understand, feel that the sleep paralysis has gone to a whole new level with me. I don't have the old stuff anymore. I wake up, you know, like that, that's all like for the four and five year olds right now, what I'm having is having to wake up and fight for my autonomy and my humanness. I have to wake up and I'm still going to choose today who I'm going to serve, what I'm going to, what I'm going to look into what, you know, if I don't have an interest in something, and you have introduced it to me in a world of intrigue or flattery like we were talking about earlier. You've got this young, like handsome celebrity in this dream that is so intrigued with You. And then you wake up and you want to perpetuate that fantasy. No, I'm not going to take the bait. I'm not going to have someone else tell me what I'm going to think about or dream about or long for or compare my life to or what I'm going to buy. And I mean, were this. This far away, if. If it's probably happened already, where they're going to start, you know, we've heard about it. They're going to start putting the commercials in our dreams. Right.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I had a feeling this is where you were going. So advertising are exploring dream incubation using audio video cues before sleep to implant brand imagery into dreams as a new frontier for marketing companies like to make. You've been doing this to me.

[Matt]

I've been doing this to myself. Well, when I was. When I was younger and in. Not in music, so I was in college, I have a minor in music, but I would play a C note and then a couple of other ones, but mainly C, I wanted to find middle C, so I would play that tone while I slept in order to, like, internalize this.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You're a psychopath.

[Topher Grace]

All right?

[Matt]

I have relative pitch because of it. I, I don't. I. I don't have perfect. Perfect pitch means you can hear a sound.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Gates program yourself.

[Topher Grace]

He did.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

He's like, I would just drink. Is that. I would drink a cup of pink drink before bed, and I would play his note over and over again.

[Topher Grace]

And.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I wear a heavy blanket to simulate paralysis.

[Matt]

Yeah, actually, it did work.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

M E Ultra.

[Matt]

We cut out the middleman.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's such a banger.

[Matt]

They came to my house and they're

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

like, he's doing this. He's already doing it to himself.

[Matt]

It did help me internalize that. That note. So I. If, if you know where C is at, then you can. Can, like, figure out on the rest of the scale, if you're really paying attention, where the rest of the notes.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

Have you guys heard of Sabrina Wallace or Chris Crutchfield, who's been extending her work?

[Matt]

No.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I've heard the name. I'm not familiar with the concept.

[Topher Grace]

I think I brought her up in the last pod, but, like, her whole thing and Vicki, you're gonna love this. She's been showing how since 2016. The frequency band that they're using in telecommunications is only, like. I forget what degree. Off of our own rhythms within our body.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Okay.

[Topher Grace]

Within our own neurology. And so when you look. Her name's Sabrina Wallace.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

She runs very familiar.

[Topher Grace]

She Runs Psy Energy on Rumble. And her and Chris Crutchfield have done these series of talks where they've really broken it down about this whole thing about essentially front loading your consciousness with a thought, whether it's in a dream or actually transmitting it into your brain. And then you go and look at your Instagram and you see that thing. And so most people are like, instagram's reading my mind. But it's not that at all. What they've done is they've preloaded your body with that frequency, then your phone or whatever device picks up that frequency.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Wow.

[Topher Grace]

And they're using that as, like, in any control. That's the control.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, of course. Anything.

[Topher Grace]

You're breaking that, by the way. By the. You saying, no, no, I'm not gonna go to that control. I'm not gonna look up, you know, that. That. That famous person to them, they're gonna be. They're. They're trying to figure out, oh, we have to change the frequency like this, or we have to pick up the amplitude or whatever, but this is something that's going on that. That's why I think the whole thing with the alien agenda is people don't know that this technology is here. The holographic technology is here, but it's not holograms. Like, they're going to be projecting it out in the sky. The hologram is actually gonna.

[Matt]

The.

[Topher Grace]

It. It's much more of an internal experience that people are going to be having that they're going to be projecting onto the world.

[Matt]

Whoa.

[Topher Grace]

So they're going to be like, no,

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I saw hijacking of the visual cortex.

[Matt]

Would you say it's like a. Like a mass hallucination?

[Topher Grace]

Well, it's not mass hallucination. So this is the thing. Like, we brought this up earlier, all four of us, and Vicki, you brought up this example. You could have three friends. You all grew up at the same time. You were all conditioned the same way. You guys are not going to see things the same way. None of us see the way anybody else sees. We think we do.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Topher Grace]

And so what you're going to do is you're going to have some things that are going to be visually shown through a screen. We're going to see it through a screen, and then you're going to have people that are going to bleed. The most effective dupes are the ones that believe what they're saying is true.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Topher Grace]

Because we all pick up on the truth vibe.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, yeah. You don't want it. You don't Want somebody out there who's running a narrative who is in the know. You want somebody who's spreading, let's say disinformation like Timothy. Well, don't say that's not, Sorry, that

[Matt]

wasn't, that was, that was not.

[Topher Grace]

I don't actually get an authenticity vibe from him at all.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, that's, oh, well, I, I, I,

[Topher Grace]

I, I really don't. No, I'm talking about somebody that literally is going to come to you as a zealot and be like, I saw the triangles above me.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I swear to God genuinely believes.

[Topher Grace]

And they're just like totally in it. And you, your biofield is going to pick up their biofield and you're gonna be like, this person's telling me the truth, but their truth isn't real.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, but they would pass a lie detector.

[Unidentified Male Host]

It says it in. It says that these evil people were going to go on deceiving and being deceived. Right? So it's like the dude deceived himself and teaching this is within the church is the context. Like that guy's the most dangerous because he's sincere.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That brings up, brings about that, that notion of a strong delusion again, somebody who's unwilling to see the truth initially. It's like, God gives you what you want, right? You don't want to see it.

[Topher Grace]

Here, here.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I'll take away that discernment. I'll take away the truth and you can spiral further into your own lie to the extent where you, you really believe it. By the way, the though so companies like Coors and Burger King have tested this with studies showing a 27% increase in purchase intent for products, dreams. I mean, look, if it's 27%, I mean, what would you do for a 27%?

[Matt]

David woke up, he's like, I gotta buy stupid glasses.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I think we gotta. I just wake up half the time

[Topher Grace]

my purchases are already.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I think it's just my Instagram stop doing targeted ad ads to me. I'd be a little bit bummed out. I'm like, show me products I want to buy. Get back in here. Because I don't know, I don't want this crap. I want. You know what you program me to want something that I wanted to ask you, Vicki, on the topic of this, you know, alien deception are there. Take this wherever you want. Are there any good aliens?

[Matt]

Oh, good question.

[Narrator]

Far lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee. On Talk talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Okay, again, we gotta, we gotta define alien. And, and I think again we have all these words that have a spectrum and we, we use the one word to mean all of it. You know, so everything when we're asleep is a dream. And what's another one? I had one and it slipped my mind. But anyway, so when you talk about

[Topher Grace]

aliens, can I refine the question?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I am playing coy to an extent

[Matt]

when I say this without burying like the lead in, like, okay, yeah. Within this spiritual realm that exists on the other side, things that are not explicitly at the command of God.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

God.

[Matt]

So those angels that are at the command of God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, these entities, excluding those. When I say alien, I think that's what I'm talking about. So we're talking about extraterrestrial, we're talking about interdimensional, we're talking about other beings, cryptids, you, whatever you name it, even beings of light, things like that, but not the beings that are not specifically under the command of God, I think. Is, is that what you're talking about?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

More or less? I mean, I think I'm, I'm looking more, more confined to something that disclosure might want to reveal to us. So, so let's say hypothetically, disclosure comes along.

[Matt]

Okay, you're talking about the, the, the species of.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Sure.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Like let's say.

[Matt]

Because angels are alien to us.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yep, they are alien to us. Right. And so of course the terminology, I mean, look, let's do this, have a, let's have a well informed conversation within what we suspect on the Show. I. I think that aliens are much more of a Hollywood propaganda thing. We've got this. This propaganda wing that delivers to us our opinions and thoughts on the alien phenomenon. And I think there's been a rebranding. It's taking place over generations, and they'd hope to show us, you know, an array of different species, each with their own motives. Hopefully you would buy that they're from space race and, you know, they're highly advanced, technologically speaking. And, you know, maybe there's some good ones, maybe there's some bad ones. Do you buy into that? I mean, let's. Let's even remove the alien thing. Let's go with the presupposition that these are a rebranding of ancient entities. When they try to say, well, some of them are bad, it's easy to say the Grays are bad.

[Matt]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

But then some of them might be good. Some of them might even be in opposition to degree. Some of them might be friendly. What do you make of that? Landscape?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Landscape, yeah. Yep. Yep. So I've got a lot to say about this. Let me see if I can be concise. So let's. I'm. I'm gonna. I'm gonna coin some Heiser phrases here. So Heiser talks about Elohim, right? And the im in the Hebrew means. It means plural. That's kind of like the English equivalent to the S or the es. So if you see an IM ending, it means plural. And the IM ending is also usually ascribed to royalty, royal blood. It's not like if you're a deplorable. You don't get the I am ending, right? These are. These are ancient bloodlines. So Elohim is what translates into English as God. So when we see Elohim, we think it means God the Father. And anything else is a little G God, and it's a demon and it's an alien and it's a bad guy. But that is not the Hebraic understanding of Elohim. It. Elohim has more to do with. With location than it has to do with personhood or identity. So when. When I say that I am an American, all that means is I'm not German, I'm not Chinese, I'm not Canadian. And so. But within America, every American doesn't look like me. We've got male, we have female, we have different ages, we have different ethnicities from our. Our forefathers, et cetera. So when. When the Bible or a Hebraic writer says Elohim, it's talking about every Single being that's not terrestrial in nature. Earth is not your first estate. Okay, so this can be God the Father and it can be Jesus and it can be. But it can be angels. But it can also be all the dead people in Sheol before the cross. It can be all the people who have died because they're no longer terrestrial, they no longer have a body, they're no longer here with their lungs, breathing air. And so we have to come to a more ancient, accurate understanding of Elohim. Because as long as Christians have their horse blinders on and think Elohim means God the Father, and if we ascribe that word to anything else, it's blasphemous. That's not, that's not the way a author of Scripture would have understood that word. Now, when God says that he's the God of Gods, the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings, he's basically acknowledging, of all of the Elohims out there, there is none like me. I am preeminent. I'm the best. I created all of the others. So in terms of, of aliens or demons or all of the riff raff in Ephesians 6:12, you know, the, the fallen angels, the archons, the principalities, the spiritual forces of wickedness, all these things, what I'm going to say about are they good or bad? I'm going to differentiate it this way. We already know from the serpent in the garden that something bad or something, let's say, that's fallen, something that has. Has rebelled against its maker and is now acting out its own will, the serpent said a lot of things that were true. It said one lie. So if you're going to define good or evil in terms of something, evil only speaks lies. No. Are, are there fallen entities that will speak truth? Yes, absolutely. So what it comes down to isn't whether or not everything they're saying is true or false. It is their intent. If they are telling you something true, why? Because they're building to the deception. And so they have to get you in. And so if right off the bat there is no God and Jesus Christ was just a man and he died and he never rose from the dead because they went and they hid his body, you're going to be like, screw you. Like, I don't believe any. You're not. You're not on the hook. Even so, if the intent of the truth is like some of these gatekeepers that we have online, where I'm going to present myself as a Christian and a theologian, and I'm going to speak gospel, doctrine, theology. Five years. I'm going to get a huge audience. Everyone's going to trust me. They're now going to flip into the blinder mode because think I'm awesome and they've read all my books and now I'm going to start weaving little lies. And they're not going to catch them because they are not, they're not questioning me that I built their trust. So, yes, best fallen things can tell the truth, but it, what's the intent if they're doing it to build your trust so they can, you know, lure you into the back of the white panel van with their candy? You know, then obviously evil people can, can speak truth. But then you had a really good point too. Raven, with we have this idea, and I think that we are so, we have so constructed our concept of, of war and spiritual warfare and battles and fighting and good and evil. We, we've taken our understanding of good and evil more from Star wars than we have the Bible. And we do, we do have this idea that there's one guy with a blue or green sword and there's one guy with the red sword and these two people, you know, and they're having their little fight. And so we have to understand, I mean, even politically, even we see this in the terrestrial realm, there are bloodline families that are fighting to the death for power. You know, we've got the Catholic Church that wants all this power. We've got the Illuminati that wants all this power. We've got the government that wants all this power. And they're fighting, constantly fighting. There are many groups and entities and bloodlines that want the scepter of planet Earth. And so one of them ultimately is going to prevail momentarily in the end times. And so there's going to be infighting. And this idea that there's one bad guy, one good guy is where a lot of us get messed up because then we're in this duality where if there's a good guy, I'll pick the good guy. And a lot of times the good guy is the lesser of two evils. The good guy that we're or isn't even the good guy. And where this gets really interesting is if you do a deep dive into the, the noun, the common Hebrew noun, Satan or Hasatan, the adversary. It's just a common noun. Satan's not his name. Lucifer's not his name. All of a sudden we got a Latin word in the Bible for some reason, okay? And so take away Satan or Lucifer. You know, even in the book of Enoch, we had 200 watchers coming down. Okay, so there was 200 enemies, maybe 201. If you don't believe that some Yaza and Azazel are the same dude, which I don't think they were. But anyway, now it's like, okay, who, who is Satan? Because if Azazel is in the abyss right now and he's all locked up, who's this guy who presented himself in heaven and Job and said, where have you been? I've been roaming the earth. Okay, well then you're not a Zazel, you're not a Polyan, because he's not roaming the earth. So now there's these two bad guys and I think about it and it's like, what is going to show the absolute power, majesty, might, sovereignty and superiority of Jesus Christ? A guy who fights one bad guy and wins? Got a 50, 50 chance there, right? Or what if there are 100 Hasatans?

[Narrator]

We're lost. I'm going to pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[Matt]

A movie?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk tech, text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT mobile.com for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

What if there's a thousand? What if there's a million? Now we're talking Indiana Jones where he, you know, pulls out his sword and, and it's a whole. It's. It's a. It's a crowd of pe. It's a crowd of guys with swords. It's not just the one guy. Anyone with. Anyone with the derringer. That's Got one lead bullet's gonna shoot one guy at least once, right? I mean, so I think this idea that there's only one group at the top of the pyramid or there's one bad guy or one royal bloodline or even one Satan. We would have so much more excitement and cultural pride in who we are as children of God if we understood how badass Jesus is. He's not some dude in sandals that conquered one guy. He has conquered, you know, zillions of these things that are coming at him from every angle. This is the guy in, in the. The Bruce Lee movies that is. Is. Is kung fuing a hundred people coming at him, coming at him, coming at him. And I just think it's sad that we can go to a movie and see some Superman or Spider man or Iron man or something like that, and we can be so in awe of this fictionalized rebranding. Let's put an old Nephilim in tights, and I'm going to get the tattoos and the mugs and the pajamas and the bed sheets, and I'm going to go to the Comic Cons and I'm going to spend my life oohing and ahhing over this guy in tights and then never realize that Jesus is the one that's conquering every single one of them. And yet he bores us.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It is amazing how they've managed to take something so epic and make it so boring. I think what people are preparing to fall for is something that is akin to, you know, the. The people of antiquity, where you have. What's the marker of a good God? You know, when you. When you look at, like the Greek mythos or any of the mythos is. And. And surely, you know, Zeus and. And the rest of the pantheons were revered and loved, right? I mean, obviously there are a lot of stories where you look at it and you go, these people are horrifying, or these entities are horrifying. But they were revered and they were loved and they were worshiped, and they were worshiped and loved because of the things that they could give their worshipers, their followers, right? They bought blessings on them. They have the ability to, let's say, impartial art, wisdom and mystic teachings, technologies, even if you want to go down that route. But all throughout antiquity, we have these examples of these entities teaching agriculture, teaching metallurgy, which are responsible for huge leaps in advancement in early people. And certainly, by all measures, they made the lives of the inhabitants of these cities and these cultures is exponentially better. You know, metallurgy exponentially better. Agriculture, exponentially better to take primitive people who are constantly teetering on the cusp of like starvation really. Because it's like if there's not a good hunt that year, if, if the herd doesn't move through, or if you're not successful in your hunt and your gather, well then that could mean life or death if the weather rolls in in a bad way. But if you can prepare for the future, learning agriculture, you know, planting crops, domesticating animals, that ensures longevity, that changes the game by, by that measure, then these things are good. Right? I mean, isn't that so. So where I'm at right now is anybody who wants to entertain this idea of like good aliens. And I know we've, we've already established like that's a kind of a misnomer. It's a, it's a, it's a rebranding. But I don't, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this. I don't know exactly what their measure of, of a benign entity, of a good entity. Now, now my, my measure would be. Yeah, neutral was even a weird thing. We had a discussion with, with, you know, with Tim about that and he said that he does believe that there are neutral entities. I don't, I don't think that there are because Jesus explicitly says, if you're not with me, you're against me. And so then how, how then could you be neutral? I don't think any. There's, there is such thing, especially when you're dealing with, with spiritual entities. But then again, the, the foundation of, of spiritual entity is in flux, so you can't even, we can't even come to an agreement on that. But my measure would be in the grace of God, in the service of God. If this entity is in that standing, then, you know, we are at least in alignment. I'm not for you, I'm for the Lord. But we're in the same, we're both for the Lord, so cool. You know what I mean? But, but that to me is the only useful measure because all other feelings of love don't seem to matter. You know, you go back to the Jake Barber thing where he recovers the uap, the uap egg shaped UAP from the mountain range in the helicopter and he's filled with this feeling of love and, and you know, there's this woman talking to him or whatever and you know, he's tied into UAP disclosure. So I'm super, to use Matt's vocabulary, Sketchesaurus Rex about that, that There the, the measure that we would use is. It falls short. Are you giving me gifts? That's not a good measure. Do you make me feel love? Well, apparently there could be a counterfeit version of that. So that's not a good measure. Are you? For the Lord is, is the, is the measure. I, I think and I don't think there's another measure that you could possibly have that, that is more apt than that. But, but what do you think, Vic?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yeah, this is a great, great, great discussion.

[Narrator]

We're lost. I'm going to pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T mobile is available in U S Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H2023 5 bigger network. The combination of T mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees. Apply CT for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

So we have our definitions as human beings as to what's good, what's helpful, what's productive. Interestingly in, in the book of Enoch when we find out that Azazel is giving all of this information to mankind. Again, this has to do with intent. When he was judged and put into chains, he was judged for sharing the mysteries of heaven. And the angel specifically says and you didn't even share the good ones, you shared the worthless ones. So here's the deal. We do know that agriculture and farming and metals and, and all this stuff was all, it was all good things. And we also know that, that God probably more likely pre incarnate Messiah, when he was with the people, he was teaching them things. I mean there's all sorts of mysteries hidden in that Torah and in the oral tradition of Abraham, Isaac and his kids. You read the book of Jasher and you find out they Knew how to read the star map, the Maseroth. When they went to build the temple, all of a sudden men were supernaturally endowed with the ability to know blueprint design, carpentry, architecture. And all of a sudden we had a guy who had a gifting to make musical instruments and to make music. So, you know, God, pre incarnate, Messiah. They also have the ability to teach mankind things to make life more convenient and easy and, and make sure we don't starve and things like that. So the reason why the things that were shared by the Watchers were worthless is because the intent wasn't for our convenience and our health, wealth and happiness the same way today the elites give us all of these things, but it's not for our health, wealth and happiness. It's to get us further enslaved. And so, hey, I'm going to teach all about metals so you can make weapons and kill each other so there can be bloodshed and war. Hey, I'm going to tell you how to mix herbs and things, things, you know, so, so that you can, you know, communicate with the spirit realm. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to show women how to make cosmetics so they can seduce men and destroy marriages. And so it's not that the information or the mystery itself was bad, but the reason why they were the worthless mysteries is again, knowledge of good and evil. Here's the other side of the coin. This is what God intended with all of these things. Because Jesus's kingdom is all about abundance. Your cup runneth over. I've owned the cattle on a thousand hills. The, the kingdom of Jesus Christ is about abundance. And the kingdom of Babylon is all about lack. There's not enough. And so if you want it, you're going to have to fight for it. You're gonna have to earn it. You're gonna have to work and enslave yourself to earn money and to get the health insurance and to buy it. And oh, we're all out. And, and so I think with this, good or bad, let's contrast that now with the kingdom of God. Jesus comes to earth and he did not promise or achieve wealth, health, happiness and prosperity. Which is why so many people even within his own little group were questioning John the Baptist, is this really the guy? And then we got Judas. Like, I'm out, you know, tap out, man. Like, this guy was supposed to make us rich and famous. He was going to overthrow Rome, we were going to rule. And we even see this with, was it James and John, the two disciples, like Jesus just announces to his disciples, they're going to put me to death. I'm going to die. And James and John, their first thought is like, well, as long as you're going to be in heaven, can we sit on your right and your left? Like all the. It wasn't just Judas. These guys were obsessed with the power and the positions in government that they thought that they were going to inherit from this special friendship. That's where they thought this was all leading. And that's why when, when Jesus died, they were all so disillusioned. He wasn't the guy. He proved over and over again that he was the guy. But the reason they couldn't see him as the guy is because they didn't, didn't overthrow Rome and they weren't sitting in seats of power. They didn't get elected into the Senate. They didn't have the wealth and, and the, the bags of gold. And so what happened then after they figured it out, after the resurrection, they remembered all these things and he appeared to them and they realized, oh, he really is. And he's going to go and prepare a place for me. He really is the Messiah. And so at that point, were they bestowed with wealth, position? Did they get promoted? Did they have wealth? Did they have health? Did they have long lives? They didn't get any of that stuff. They were martyred, they were disrespected, they were chased down, they were stoned, they were these kangaroo courts. They weren't rich, they were going from town to town, not even bringing the money bag with them, couch surfing with whoever would take them. And so this idea of, of good and bad, the government has groomed us to believe that something is good and loving and trustworthy if it gives you health, wealth, long life, prosperity, that's not, that's not the gifts of the kingdom of heaven. And you know, we do, we know from Psalm 27, I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. But we also know that it's not going to be until we come into his kingdom that we are going to achieve the health, wealth and long life, and eternal life and prosperity. And we are now living in a world that is being dominated and run by the adversary. And he's going to promote his own people. He's not going to put people in positions of authority that are working against his kingdom. And so I think even when we talk about good and bad, when we talk about love, when we talk about all of these good things that we have to be very careful. The same way we buck the system when we're dream hacked and we're told to look up the celebrity or look up the Burger King. We also have to tell the government and the people out there who own all the pharmacies and the health insurance companies and the jobs with the paychecks and the bonus checks. We have to, to constantly be saying like Jesus, no, why, why do you call me good? And there's none good but, but the Father. And it is as true today as it was back then. And so as long as we keep defining health, wealth and prosperity and goodness and love and safety the way the government tells us we are supposed to define it first, the more pacified we're going to be with their paltry little temporal gifts that aren't going to do a thing for us except, you know, give us a meal every day and you know, and a game system, right? You know, they're willing to give us that stuff to pacify us. But the real definitions of good, the real definition and definition of love, this is why it's important. Like earlier we were talking about having to define terms and why is it important if we dig deep down and try to figure these things out. Judas wound up selling Jesus out for 30 pieces of silver because Jesus didn't meet his expectations. He had a terrestrial human definition of who Jesus was and what Jesus came for and what Jesus was going to accomplish. And when Jesus failed to meet Judas's shallow expectation, it led to his destruction. And so we have to, we have to understand not the English translation or the church traditions or what the 501c3 pastor says or what the seminaries tell us. We aren't deep diving into scripture and understanding the culture, context, history, language and geography. The Hebraic lenses. We are taught, we are intentionally taught from kindergarten through 12th grade and all the way through college. A Masonic way of learning the seven sciences. This is all Masonic. The foundation of our entire public liberal arts education. Liber comes from the Latin word liber. Free. You know what that meant? If you're not an elite adept, you're going to get a dumbed down stripped version of the education. You're getting the free education. You're getting the bargain basement education because you're a deplorable, you're not worthy of this higher tree of knowledge information we have. So we're going to give you the Libra, we're going to give you the free version. But all of the seven sciences and the liberal education, all of it is freemasonic. Which goes all the way back into the original dragon courts and the secret societies going all the way back to Cain. And it's this grooming, it's this dumbing down. So if we're not in the word, we're lost.

[Narrator]

I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T mobile is available in U. S Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Ookle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See T mobile for details.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

The most important question in the whole bible and every single thing in the world hinges on it. Your life, your happiness, your joy, your prosperity, how you define all these things. Where you're going to spend eternity is when Jesus said to Peter, who do you say I am? If you get that question wrong, everything fails.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You know, as you're, as you're talking about. And I think you're right, that is the most fundamental question to be asking here. Especially because if we're presented in antichrist, it'll be something that is a palatable version of Jesus that people can, you know, accept who maybe aren't so grounded in the gospel, you know, like, it's

[Matt]

like such a bizarre juxtaposition of like, yeah, I, I what you just said there is really what I've been trying to do and get at since, since I've been on this journey is like I'm trying to understand the personality and the nature of God. You do that by talking to him, by reading the bible. You do that by fellowshiping with other people that can explain things to you. But it's like we need to define that so that definition is super important. But on the other Hand, that's an important definition.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Wait, to know God, we had to define that. Is that what you're saying? Because ultimately that's what this whole thing is about. Because to be fair, Judah, this even you alluded to John the Baptist. Like these dudes had the scriptures right. And I think what they were so confused about was the two comings. Like we look back now, we're like, oh yeah, of course there's two comings. Of course that's what the end of Isaiah 52 in Isaiah 53 is about. That was his first coming. And then you know, these other things about him like controlling the planet, setting up an empire like on planet Earth. Of course that's his second coming. These dudes like were in the scriptures and had no clue but that that's

[Matt]

the incorrect definition of the scripture because they're using the scripture to fit something that they already their preconceived narrative that they wanted to happen maybe from pass down word or maybe from their, their current stripes or whatever was going on politically of the day. And it doesn't work.

[Unidentified Male Host]

But our goal of scripture has to be to get into communication with God.

[Matt]

Yeah, because I don't. We don't. We're probably still not right about what we're reading and interpreting hurting. But as time unfolds, things make a little bit more sense and you have to be able to go left or right with what you like. Like how, how Vicki opened up this conversation. Like how we've previously thought, like I have to be okay with that dying off. And if, if God has revealed something new to me, that's fine, but I have to be ready to move in that direction. Otherwise I'm just going to be stuck here.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Man.

[Matt]

I don't want to call myself a Judas if I. But what are the ramifications of being stuck in your thinking?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, this is why it's careful to, to not lean on your own understanding. I mean not only did they have scripture, but they had Jesus and they were still, he was literally there. They were high fiving him and they still got it wrong.

[Matt]

So like we're 2000 years past it or I mean maybe more but.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, it makes me wonder what things we're. We're currently getting wrong, you know, grossly misinterpreting. But one of the things that's really fascinating to me, grossly.

[Matt]

But are we intentionally misinterpreting? Like I think it's okay to get. It's all right if we get something wrong. But if you intentionally misinterpret It. Because it doesn't fit to your.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Well, that's what you hear, your party lines. You're saying you want this to fit.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Party lines is a good description, but more. More like you're just your interests. Whatever your interests are at any given moment, whether it's party lines or it's. You want to be in a certain group or you have a narrative that you want to protect, whatever your interests are, if they supersede the gospel, if they supersede the truth, then, you know, you're pretty well screwed.

[Matt]

It's like a constant reassessment of, well, what are my interests? Interest? What am I doing?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Just the truth.

[Matt]

Every time we sit down here.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Anything other than that. It's dangerous, dude, going into the scripture with any, like, preconceived. Like, my doctrine is this, or my denomination believes this, or cemetery school taught me that, like, anything other than, hey, Lord, I just want to know whatever you want to show me.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, it's just too. Whatever you want to show me. However I can serve. If you reveal a thing to me that's dope, I'm content with anything you reveal. I want to know, I'll pursue. But I'm not going to lean on my own understanding. Like, it's a, A. It's a constant thing. Because especially now, as a conspiracy theorist, you know, there's all this vindication getting tossed around, which is super tempting. It's super dangerous, right? If, if the Epstein files come out, if disclosure comes out, anything that is big and of that nature, you could easily look over and go, like, look how right I was. Look how right I was. Which I. I'll do that. And I'll do it as a joke. Like, I'll do it. I'll walk around, I'll do it to my wife, and I'm a blame babe. Look how smart your husband is. Look at how smart. Look at how, look how much stuff I do. Isn't it cool that I knew all this stuff? And she goes, yeah, yeah, baby, it's cool.

[Topher Grace]

Cool.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

But, like, you gotta. You have to curb that because that thing is like, look, what you're saying is like, look how great my understanding is. And that's like, one step away from, like, I can lean on this.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah. Think about, like, the scribes, right? Like the scribes and Pharisees. Like, the scribe was a commentator. This is the same thing as we call commentary today. Like, the commentators of Jesus day crucified him. I guarantee those dudes could go to the. The scripture, Scripture and justify it. Prove beyond the shadow of a doubt. That that's not the Messiah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Exactly.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Guaranteed. Guaranteed, bro.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Here's the crazy thought, right here's the strange thing though. So you look back, like we were saying that those groups of antiquity and they were, they were worshiping these gods and these gods made them dependent, right? So it's like they gave them the systems, right? Which, which I do think there's like as above, so below, you know, as in heaven, so on earth, or vice versa. As an earth, so in heaven, which way is it? I don't know which way it is, but same thing, right? So these systems that we have on earth are an emulation of like these heavenly systems, right? And so, you know, these entities give them the systems, they give them the, the technologies, they make the people dependent on them. The people give them worship, they give them sacrifice. And then you look at our modern day government, it's very much the same thing, right? They provide through like welfare and everything, all these systems that make you dependent. You sacrifice endless amounts of babies in the, you know, what would you call it? What's the, what's the, it's called, what

[Matt]

you're describing is called prostitution.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, no, but there's a colloquial terminology, healthcare. But it's, it's reproductive care. There we go. Which is such a funny terminology. But through all this reproductive care, you're sacrificing these babies. You're dependent on the government, the government is giving you these technologies. So it's the same system, it's just decentralized where it was centralized in like a group of entities. Now, now the entities have taken a back seat and they're using man to orchestrate. But it's the exact same thing. If they do the disclosure, it's going to be the same thing as the old system where now you have these entities and they're giving you systems and they're giving you technologies. It is literally a repeat. I always use the example of childhoods and Arthur C. Clarke in that book. Well, I only watched it because I can't read. But in the show, you know, these entities come and they, they introduce these systems and they introduce these technologies and they create a utopia and they don't reveal themselves to mankind. And then mankind falls into such a false sense of security because how much of a utopia has been created? These things must be good. Eventually they say we will reveal ourselves in this many years. When that time comes, the entities reveal themselves. They're demons. But it's like, how funny is that? It's the same exact System of dependency, of imparting knowledge and wisdom, of sharing technologies, of. Of sacrifice right to these entities. It is exactly the same system. Now we just don't get to see them. And the big trick is we're going to get to see them again, and people are going to fall for it again.

[Topher Grace]

Yeah.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Yep. You know, I. I know I'm opening a can of worms here, and I'm really not meaning to, but let's go. It's just perfect. So by way of just going off of what Matt was saying, where, when. If we go into the scripture, trying to see it as a proof text for our denomination instead of jumping off the cliff and seeing what it really means. So Jesus is our example in the garden. Okay. Or when he. In the garden of Gethsemane, when he was praying, right, he was saying, okay, God, I know this has been the plan from the beginning, but now that I'm a few hours away from it, if there's any plan B here, just let me know. Now, Jesus was thinking, maybe there's an option that I don't have to do this, go through any suffering at all. Then when he got onto the cross, he's not dead yet. He's suffered some. He's been beaten. He's got the crown of thorns. He's in pain. Then a temptation comes before him. And the Bible and our doctrine doesn't word it this way. It doesn't ascribe it directly to Satan. But the crowd says, save yourself. End this right now. End it early. Get off the cross. You don't like, you know. So now we have a second option for the cross. Okay, God, maybe just spare me from any suffering at all. Maybe. Maybe Satan says, I can get him to come off the cross in the middle. So he, you know, he kind of did his thing, but he doesn't have to suffer the whole thing. And then there's a third option of. Of you're going to see it through to the end. You're going to go through all of it. The. The full cup of God's wrath is going to fall on you. This is the same scenario that we're painting for our eschatological options. We can, God, if there's any way, let this cup pass. I don't want my, you know, foot to hit a stone. I don't want to break a nail. I don't want to go through any pain at all. If there's anything that we can. Right then we've got the, like, hey, come down off the cross. You know, dude, it's been three and a half years. Yeah, You've. You've been eating, you know, beans and. And water for the last, you know, oh, you poor Christian. You've. You've. You've proved yourself to me, and I'm gonna save you now and mid trip, right? And then we've got the option of like, no, you're gonna go all the way to the end and you're gonna take your last breath and you know it's gonna come down on you. And so the way that Jesus provided an example for us was by saying, okay, God, best case scenario, this is the one I would pick. Don't let's just scrap this right now. There's got to be a better way. Okay? Then Jesus said, you know, I could just come down off my cross in the middle of this and get out the laser beam, zap them all dead, laugh over their corpses, and I win, you idiots. And I was right. Right. That's the human way. Right? What Jesus did in the garden was he said, maybe there's a chance I don't have to suffer at all. Maybe there's a chance that maybe the Father will do for me what he did for Abraham. Maybe there'll be a scapegoat. Maybe I will. I will go all the way up the mountain with my son and have that fear in my. In my heart. And then in. In the 11th hour, you're going to. You're certainly, I'm your son. Certainly you're going to do for me what you did for Abraham. Like, there's a possibility all things are possible. Right? And what Jesus did after weighing all the options is the theology that left the garden with him was, I know you can do all things. Not my will, but yours be done. And so the way I frame eschatology, you're never going to hear Vicki saying, I'm pre mid or post trib or like, or all the little, like, I'm, I'm. I'm a PA. Tripper. It'll all pan out in the end and all this nonsense, right? So here's the deal. I know that whether he comes before the end times, in the middle of the end times, or at the end of the end times, or that before the bowls of wrath, but until the very end, whatever. I know, we're lost.

[Narrator]

I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Hi.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Hey there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just Kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T mobile and US cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out plus our five year price guarantee. And now T mobile is available in U. S cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogalyp's b test intelligence data 2h 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusion like taxes and fees apply ct mobile.com for details

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

that whatever he's picked, he's going to give me everything I need to survive it and keep my faith intact. I, I know that if the worst case scenario is suffering that he's going to prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. He's going to set my feet on a rock. He is going to let, he's going to make sure that as I'm going through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. This goes back to what Topher was saying. I'm in the middle of death, the last enemy, the thing that all humanity fears. I am in the hand of death right now and I have no fear. That's what we're promised. Whether it's a near death experience or a real death experience in the throes of death. Death we won't fear. So who cares if he comes at the end if, if he is by our side, if, if that's what he won on the cross was the keys to death in Hades where he says to the thief on the cross, today you'll be with me in Paris. In other words, I will escort you to the gates of death. You're still going to die. I'm not pulling you off the cross. You're still gonna like suffer a heart attack and, and, and your lungs are going to collapse. Collapse. I'm not saving you from it. I'm not taking you off the cross. But I have promised now because of your, of your faith that when you die and you pass over that other side, I'm going to take your hand and I'm going to be your personal escort to the gates of death. And if any accusers are there, it's not going to matter. So we have all of this evidence in scripture that he's never going to leave us or forsake us, and that we will have. Have fearlessness in the face of death. And, and so my question about this eschatology is, who cares when he. When he comes back? He's coming back.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, same. That's huge, man. I've never heard it put like that. That was a really fascinating contrast to what Jesus went through. That's actually like, that's. That's huge.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah. Not my will, but your will. Like, that's his life in one side sense.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Even, even this idea, though, of how it. How it correlates to, you know, people's desires for a pre trib or a mid trib. And, and whether or not you think you could back it scripturally, it's like, that's a fascinating contrast.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah, but if you really love the Lord, you would kind of hate to get taken up in a pre trip, bro. Like, right before, like, the craziest stuff on the planet ever goes down, like, you're like, no, I want to be around for that.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, I. As. As funny as that is, I. I agree. You know, I often think, like, I didn't spend all my life. Life learning a bunch of crazy stuff and then coming to Christ just to, like, take the first bus out. Yeah, totally.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Which is whatever he can do whatever he wants. I would. It seems like he'd rather stick around during that.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I might ask him.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

I know.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Wild story.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

I'd rather have the backstage pass than the nosebleed seats.

[Unidentified Male Host]

Yeah, same.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I want to put a pin in it there. I think that's a great way to end the episode, Vic. You know, I guess actually, before we do, I have to. I have one final question. Are you having fun, Vicki Joy Anderson?

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

I. I am, man. Oh. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. If I can just testify to how awesome Jesus is. You know, not everybody can pursue their dreams. Like, not everyone can be the professional baseball player and the rock star. Right. We need people to. To do everything. But, you know, all I wanted to do since second grade was be a writer. So I. Second grade and then in fifth grade, I absolutely knew it for a fact. I went to college. I got the writing degree. It's. It's what I wanted my whole entire life. And, you know, where I'm at now, the particular niche I'm in and doing this, the. The spheres of warfare kind of stuff, every single thing that I'm equipped to do right now, I'm equipped to do because the first 20, 30 years of my life was very, very, very difficult. The refining fire, it was the refining fire. It was the crucible. And so, you know, it looked for a long time like, you know, things aren't going to pan out. But I see that Jesus cared so much about that little second grader at the, at the poetry table writing haikus that he's like, I am going to make sure that as you get old and as you grow and you start to. That the cares of the world start choking out this high vision vision that I can use for my glory. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold you to this prayer and this desire long after you don't even care anymore. I'm going to bring it to fruition. And let me tell you guys, the day that I got to quit my corporate job, that was killing me in every single way. And like I said, I know God doesn't make every single little dream come true. You know what I mean? But I am absolutely loving my life. The last four years has been everything I ever dreamed about. And when I think about all the surgeries and the bullying and the people that wouldn't let me sit by them on the bus and the icky Vicky's and the Freddy Kruegers and the Frankensteins and the Scarface and all the crap I had to go through, it's like, bring it on, bring it on, man. Because you know what? Most of the people by my age, they're burned out, they're tired, they're disillusioned, they've grown tired. And you know, what do we look forward to once the few things life have happened? I've had my kids, I got my house, I got my first car, I had the job, and now I got the grandkids. And you know, then. Then what, right? And, and I just love the fact that when we trust him and we wait on his timing and we're okay with his will, and, and we are let, we let patience have its perfect work. I love that verse in James Let. Like that's, that's what I can do with my free will. Will. Instead of barging ahead and quickening the pace because God's not moving fast enough, I can use my free will to submit under his hand and his timing and he will then bring into fruition everything I've ever dreamed and more.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Amen.

[Topher Grace]

Amen.

[Matt]

Excellent.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I would eat another bag of dumpster donuts if it meant that I knew I was going to end up here, so. Yeah, yeah, I. I'm right there with you. Vicki, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

[Matt]

It's been.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Thank you guys.

[Matt]

Topher, thanks for hanging out.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, brother. Thanks for sticking around.

[Topher Grace]

This is my pleasure. It's so nice to meet you, Vicki.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Hey, you too. You too, both you guys.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Thank you, Matt.

[Unidentified Male Host]

No, thank you, Raven.

[Topher Grace]

Whatever, man.

[Unidentified Male Host]

No, Vicki, you crushed. This was like, so awesome. I didn't.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Hey, hey, I get passwords.

[Matt]

Are you.

[Vicki Joy Anderson]

Are you flattering me? Are you flattering me? Like my chat bot flattering, Vicky?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Jeez, man. What's the matter with you guys?

[Matt]

Thank you for hanging out. Another great day of podcasting and. Yeah, just bringing. Man, I don't know what else to say. Obey some incomply goodbye.

[Topher Grace]

What.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

In the pages they forgot? When the last trumpet sounds,

[Narrator]

we're lost. I'm gonna pull over and ask that man for directions.

[Topher Grace]

Hi there.

[Narrator]

We're looking to get to the campground.

[T Mobile Representative]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

[Narrator]

How are you getting a signal out here?

[T Mobile Representative]

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

[Narrator]

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

[T Mobile Advertiser]

America's best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

[T Mobile Advertiser Voiceover]

Best mobile network Network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.