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Nephilim Death Squad
Sons of Seth w/ Pastor Jonathan Shelley
01:45:06
In this episode of Nephilim Death Squad, David “The Raven” Corbo and Matt Hepner are joined by Pastor Jonathan Shelley (The Baptist Bias) for a direct, no-filter theological debate on the Sons of Seth theory, Genesis 6, and how modern Christianity...
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- [00:01]
Jonathan Shelley
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- [00:31]
Host Mr. Nasty
Top Lobster Productions. In the shadows of the ancient ones, they never went away.
- [00:45]
Jonathan Shelley
They're still here today. Level up, death Squad.
- [00:55]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
When the last trumpet sounds in the heavens.
- [00:58]
Jonathan Shelley
Crack. Despot.
- [01:25]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, aka the Raven, that is Top Lobster, aka Mr. Nasty. No, this is Matthew Hepner, a host of Straight Bible and Merchant of Brown Water. Yeah, get off your phone, dude. We're being professional here. It's time to be professional. This is crazy.
- [01:43]
Host Matthew Hepner
Let's go.
- [01:43]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Before we get into today's episode, a little reminder where you can support us. Go over to patreon.com forward slash, nephilim death Squad. You'll gain access to our episodes before the general public. There's also a live chat that you can't see. Those are the folks that are over on Patreon. Nobody else gets to enjoy the live chat. Also, tickets to Bohemian Grove when they drop. We're looking at March 6th and 7th. That's a Friday and Saturday, the first Friday and Saturday in March. And discount codes off of merchandise. Toplopsit.com There we go.
- [02:12]
Jonathan Shelley
Boom.
- [02:12]
Host Mr. Nasty
Pick up the standard website. So go ahead and pick up some stuff. You guys are. You guys have been buying it and I. I appreciate the support.
- [02:20]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
So keep making it.
- [02:21]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, keep. Keep making it. We'll keep making it. You keep buying it. Whatever. Excited to do this today. We have Jonathan from Baptist Bias with us. And. Hold on one second. I'm having, like, some lag here.
- [02:32]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah. As soon as we went to go start the show, the Internet decided that it was going to take a crap. All right, there we go, Jonathan.
- [02:38]
Host Mr. Nasty
Jonathan's with us. Here we go. Great, man. So we had a discussion on Twitter. I realized that I was being nasty. That's why they call me Mr.
- [02:48]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Nasty.
- [02:49]
Host Mr. Nasty
Let me see if he'd like to have a discussion with me. And here you are. So thank you for coming on the show. Tell the people a little bit about Yourself where they could find you, what you do.
- [02:59]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, thanks for having me on the show. I host a podcast called the Baptist Bias. I pastor a church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, Steadfast Baptist Church. We've pretty kind of infamous for our stances against, you know, fags and lots of different issues. We've been protested a lot, and so at the end of the day, you know, really just pastoring is my. My most important gig. I've been pastoring for about seven years, and we have a kind of about a two, two, 300 person congregation. We do a lot of missions. We go out and preach the gospel, but really, I like to talk about things that are controversial. So, you know, you are definitely nasty, but it's fine. I can take it. So I appreciate the conversation.
- [03:40]
Host Mr. Nasty
I think that's what I appreciate.
- [03:42]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
The hard F. Out of the gate, dude.
- [03:44]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, yeah. Usually, like, people like, I'll be nasty just to be nasty and see what they do. And I like the way you were responding to me. I was like, I kind of like this guy. He seems nasty too.
- [03:55]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Man. All right, so. So what you do, does it end up being like, you know, my. The most memorable thing that I have associated with that sort of preaching is, like, Westboro Baptist Church. Remember how they were always getting like, this is. I don't know if they're still doing the thing, but they were. They were constantly getting protested against, or they would be, you know, at some sort of LGBTQ event, and they would be preaching the gospel and they'd be standing against, you know, what was word sin and pride, you know, in that sin. Is it that. Are you doing that stuff?
- [04:28]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, I think they're different. They're like a Calvinist cult. They're, like, all just like, one family, and they're a bunch of lawyers. They go to, like, LGBT events specifically. And I think they. They protested a death of, like, a. At a funeral. Like, they went to his funeral and they just protested it, and then they got a lot of publicity from it. But basically, they just provoke people. They went to, like, a. I think maybe an Islamic conference one time too, and provoked them. They're just hoping that someone will hit them, punch them, throw stuff at them, and then they just sue them. So, like, it's basically just an attempt to get people to sue them. I really just got popular for just my sermons going viral. So just getting up and saying. I think it was several years ago in Florida. There was, like, a gay pride parade and a sodomite. Some fag just, like, accidentally ran over another one. And so, like, I preached and said, hey, that was a good thing. I hope we can have more accidents like that. And so, like, that caused us, like, a lot of heat, and we got, like, a lot of protests and we were evicted. We've had protests for, like, three years straight. I made a couple movies about it. So we. We have a movie called the Sodomite Deception. You can watch it for free online. Sodomydeception.com or LGBT terrorists. It's another free movie that we put out there, just kind of documenting our issue.
- [05:34]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
I didn't know that those guys were lawyers. That's a. That's a kind of a clever spot to be. And you go out, you antagonize, you wait for something to happen, and then it's like, you don't have to lawyer up. You just got to call your cousins. That's a Red Phelps, huh? All right, interesting. So. So what was the. I'm unaware or I didn't see it unfold on Twitter, but what was the. The center.
- [05:55]
Host Mr. Nasty
Before we, before we get into it, I feel like maybe, maybe we'll talk a little bit about this. How does that, in your. In your ministry, talking about this stuff, making those kind of documentaries be in this way on Twitter? How does it translate to people coming to your church? Like, what kind of people are coming? Are they actively coming there because of what you'. Like they're seeking you out? What's that like?
- [06:18]
Jonathan Shelley
I mean, we've got some visitors and we've had some new members that found out or aware of us because of some of the protests, some of the heat that we got. But I would say that most of the people are coming because of other issues. They want to come to a church that goes soul winning or preach the gospel or is King James only, but really, it's just. It's kind of an unpopular stance, to say the least. I'm sure we lost a lot of people because of it as well. So really, it doesn't necessarily help us from, like, membership or anything like that. But to me, just, it's an important issue to just at least say what the Bible says and, you know, to try to kind of like, bring back the pendulum a little bit, swing it back into the right direction, even if everybody doesn't come our way. Plus, we're going to be a shield because even if you look in, like, Europe and some of these countries, I saw like, a pastor as, like a Catholic or something. He just got up and said, like, homosexual is a sin. And they got fired, attacked and all these people hated them. And just because he's the most, you know, vocal person in their area on that issue, even though he's not saying what I'm saying. So whoever's the most vocal is going to get the attention. I'm just willing to say, you know, what the Bible literally says, like, Leviticus 20:13 says that they should be put to death. So, you know, that's my stance. It's always been my stance.
- [07:26]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
You know, the pendulum has swung in a wild way. I was living in a town only a few months ago, and there was a church, and, you know, the church would fly the pride flag outside, and, you know, there's no shortage of these pastors or preachers that are, you know, there's famously a lesbian one. I think that's kind of what Nick Fuentes was hinting at when he was talking about this idea of, you know, we don't have to get into this, but this idea of not interpreting the Bible for yourself or not reading the Bible for yourself, but instead appealing to church elders or, you know, authority on the matter, because it bears fruit sometimes, like some sort of LGBTQ congregation or pastor or some like that. So, I mean, is that. That's kind of what you're swinging?
- [08:10]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, I heard that take. I. I think that's a horrible take. Because here's the thing. No one's gonna read the Bible and then think, hey, we should have pastors. Like, it's going to be the exact opposite. Because, I mean, the Bible's saying that they should be put to death. The Bible says an abomination. The Bible says that they're reprobate. Like, there's no way you're gonna read the Bible and then think, hey, we should bring in the lesbian to be the United Methodist pastor or minister or something like that. Like that. That's just nonsense. So I totally disagree with his opinion on that particular, you know, understanding of should the. The congregation read the Bible or should it be limited to the Catholic priest who's going to lock us into the Dark Ages again for another 500 years or something.
- [08:48]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Right, Right. So. But what you're making an effort to do is to if. If the pendulum has indeed swung that far, where now you have that sort of, you know, those sorts of churches popping up or, you know, pastors, priests, things of that nature, then you're trying to go in the opposite direction as hard as you can.
- [09:08]
Jonathan Shelley
And again, I'm not sure. I'm not trying to do something the Bible's not saying, you know, I Don't want to go like, beyond what the Bible actually teaches. But yeah, I'm willing to say something that's extremely controversial, even if not everybody's going to agree with it, just because that's what's true and that's what's right. So I think by people being vocal and making a big deal about it, it can help to normalize people because we've been being radicalized to the far left and these Democrat views and just, just crazy nonsense in our society. And we need some people to kind of bring us back to some sense of normalcy. Even if it's not going to be the most popular opinion.
- [09:43]
Host Mr. Nasty
It leads to like a, I guess a little bit more of an important question of, like, how are you going to get it done? Who's going to do it? And this idea of Christian nationalism that is like, I guess it's peeking its head. I'm watching it. I'm watching it come from the, from the death of Charlie Kirk. There's a big movement now and it's going to be guided and, and pushed in whichever direction, whoever can grab the power. So we're looking at a guy like Nick Fuentes, but more recently, Joel Webb and interviewed him. And I see that you have some opinions on Calvinism. It's, it's not really the denomination I know much about. I know a little bit about their predetermination. I read a little bit of Calvin. I agreed with some of it. What do you think about that? Like, which way this, number one, this nation is headed towards some sort of Christian nationalism where they could possibly do what you're saying, But I don't know who they is and I don't know how that goes out.
- [10:39]
Jonathan Shelley
Like, yeah, usually we know who they are and it's not a different. It's a different kind of a.
- [10:44]
Host Mr. Nasty
Not even talking about the Jays. I'm talking about whoever will come in control. I don't know who that is. Somebody's going to grab the ball, grab the ring and run with it. And it's probably going to be the person that we don't want. So I guess, yeah, the question is, like, how do you feel about this, this, like Calvinism? And it seems like it's being. It's going to be tied in with whatever kind of weird Catholicism that Nick Fuentes is pushing, because that's like, that's what's leading this country right now.
- [11:14]
Jonathan Shelley
I'm not sure if Catholicism and Calvinism are really best buds or not. I mean, at the end of the day, you Know, if you look at church history and you look in the European continent, the Catholic Church was just devastating to, to Christians. I mean, the Dark ages was a really bad time in history. When we look at Calvinism specifically, that's coming out of the Protestant Reformation. So this is kind of like you said, you brought up John Calvin specifically. Calvinism is not really a denomination. It kind of spans across a couple different denominations. You have the Reformed Baptist, you have Presbyterians, and then you have, you know, just some, just non, the non Bible churches that also adhere to the Calvinist ideas. Ideas essentially. I debated a Calvinist recently on our show. There's definitely different versions of Calvinism as well. I've never spoke with Joe Webbin probably would. I'd be willing to just see what he has to say. But Calvinism is just kind of a dumb idea that's just antithetical to the Bible. It just says some people are damned before the world and, and saved before the world based on nothing. And it just kind of makes God this puppet master in an ultimate sense. And I just totally reject it.
- [12:24]
Host Matthew Hepner
It's another one of those things, like you said, who would read the Bible and think that we're just going to put homosexuals in charge of the church. Calvinism is another one of those things where you're like, wait, you. So you read a Bible and your conclusion was just that, like it was all duck, duck, goose before the beginning of time. Like that was your conclusion from reading the Bible. I don't see how you got that.
- [12:42]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, just, it appeals to the prideful and it appeals to the lazy. It's. And really it's kind of like a pseudo intellectual, very much viewpoint. So it's basically like, hey, we're just better than these other people. And the reason why is because God quote elected us. And so they kind of just look down on other people. And it just kind of sucks in a bunch of people that want to read anything but the Bible. So they want to read Calvin, they want to read church fathers. If you read the Bible, I mean, it's really clear that Jesus Christ is the savior of all men. The Bible clearly says for God so loved the world. And anytime you debate a Calvinist on these, they say, oh, when it says word world, there just means different kinds of people and it just means some people. And you're just thinking like no one would come to this conclusion. So they just have to kind of read that into the text. And you know, I don't, I don't think Calvinists are going to really take over the country or the world because historically Calvinists have never been that popular. Calvinists have never been very effective because their messaging is just, just anti reality. I mean, they're just denying clear words on the page. Catholics do have a lot of power historically and they have in the past and who knows what they could accomplish. But like you said, I don't like whoever's going to take over this nation right now. So that's why I try to, you know, throw my hat in the ring at least and bring the Baptist bias with me and try to influence people. Because if you look historically, our country was built on biblical principles. It was built on the King James Bible. You know, our laws were based on the Bible specifically. And if we're going to have any sense of revival, we need people to get back on the King James Bible having biblical principles, being saved and, and wanting to do what the Bible said. I think that that's why my documentary Sodomite Deception is actually really important because it illustrates the history on that subject and, and I think a lot of people are ignorant of where we used to be.
- [14:30]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
It's a hard thing because right now I'm watching, you know, there is some sort of revival and where those people are going to end up is yet to be determined. But I see a lot of people are glomming on to Christianity, whatever denomination they find. Who knows, maybe it's just what's next to them or what their relatives are doing or what, you know, an influencer that they're following is, is subscribed to. But a lot of them are doing it out of objection to the previous sort of status quo. So whether that status quo is political or cultural meaning, just kind of the left, right. And I've been wondering lately if it's such a great thing for people to. I think it's fantastic because whatever your walk is, everybody's walk is different. And there's all kinds of different paths that people take and ultimately lead them to Jesus Christ. And you know, we all end up in the same place ideally. That's not, you know, true for everybody, but there's all kinds of strange paths that take people to Christ. I just wonder if you set out to grab onto Christianity purely out of rebellion against the previous status quo or hatred for the other side or whatever. Is that the same as being after the heart of God and trying to develop a relationship and pursue Jesus Christ and, and pick up your cross and carry it? I mean, it' it leads there. It's just fascinating that right now this big Revival that we're seeing seems to be birthed almost solely out of just disdain for the other side. And I don't know, what do you think about that? Is that a good starting place or. Or is this maybe not quite a revival?
- [16:12]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I mean, I think that what you said is important, and I think that a lot of people are seeking. I think that Covid shook a lot of people to their core. I think the. The left and the crazy stuff they've been doing cause people to get mad. I think that the Charlie Kirk, you know, assassination has woken up a lot of people to say, like, things are really rough. And, you know, you've had things like the Truther movement. You've had a lot of censorship. You've got a lot of things just kind of challenging people. And I think that a lot of the young people are kind of disillusioned with their parents, with their churches, that maybe they had some association with, especially them being, like, rabidly pro Zionist. And we see the younger generations are like, I don't think that that's legit. So, you know, a lot of them are kind of just like, where do I go? And I think that's why you see people like Nick Fuentes and others rising to power. A lot of people resonate with some of his messaging. And I think a lot of people are questioning, looking to things like Catholicism, looking to Orthodox, looking to some of these other denominations that have kind of, historically at least, been consistent. The problem is, is there's a reason why the Protestant Reformation happened. There's a reason why America was not built as a Catholic nation. And I think some of that history has been lost. And I think, you know, the problem is that good people aren't entering into the. The. The gladiator stadium. They're not entering into the arena, and they're not really fighting. And, you know, that's why I try to, you know, get out there, reach people, because I think there's a lot of people up for grabs right now. And, you know, hopefully, you know, the more truth that we can put out there, we can get more people in, you know, saved into a good church, serving God, like you said, at the. At the next level, right? Not just being saved, but actually dedicating themselves to wanting to be a good Christian. So I think that it's really important to get out there, and I think a lot of people are up for play right now. I think more people have been up for play right now than ever before. I think in times past, it was a lot harder to switch people to different denominations or getting involved in church or questioning kind of their core beliefs. And I think right now people are more open than they've been in a while.
- [18:18]
Host Mr. Nasty
I would agree completely with that. Like, we're watching. It's a, it's like almost like a demolition of the current system. So whoever builds whatever next is going to be the thing that drives the future. So I'm just watching, I'm seeing, I got it. You know, I don't have the means to build anything that will drive the future. But I'm watching and I am seeing exactly what you're saying. And I'm seeing the frantic nature in which you have, you know, preachers, pastors, other people kind of like they're doing this weird evangelistic thing, especially on Twitter. And they're just grabbing people and they're forming these, like, weird, these. I don't even know how to call it alliances, but sides are forming and I'm just wondering where that goes and does it, does it even point back to Jesus Christ? Because it gets lost a lot in the mix of politics, in the mix of culture, in the mix of the current day thing. And I think like with this show, we do a little bit of that. We used to do more of it, but now we're trying to narrow it down and really try to understand what is this thing actually talking? What is the Bible actually saying to us besides to kill faggots? And also, I'm not. We just did an episode on the law and if it pertains to us, and you're talking about Deuteronomy, so I'm like, and Leviticus is like, does that, does that still pertain, like the active action of doing that? Or, or are we, are we set, are we set by different rules now?
- [19:46]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, and I mean, that's, that's why it's important to talk about. I mean, in 1600s, you know, I have a, and I have exact reprint of the laws of Connecticut of 1673. It's a book I often reference. But that specific colony, if you look at their capital all punishments, it was just basically copy and paste from the Bible. And then they even show all the quotations from the Bible. This actually happened in all 13 colonies. So homosexuals are subject to the death penalty in all 13 colonies. These laws still went beyond the Constitution, went beyond the Declaration of Independence. For the first, you know, several hundred years of American history, sodomy was punished with the death penalty. It slowly started to Wane in the 1800s to maybe like a felony Offense just put in prison for 20 years. It wasn't until 2003 that officially homosexuality is not a criminal penalty in America. It was actually Lawrence versus Texas in 2003. Statute that overturned, I think, 11 or 13 other states on the books. And so when I was in high school, being a. Being a fag was illegal. And it wasn't until 2003 that it was actually overturned and it was finally legalized. Just even be a homosexual. Then of course, you fast forward to things like 2015, they can get married, obviously. Questions about being able to adopt children, other kind of stuff, them being put in positions of political power through the Obama administration. I mean, things have rapidly changed. And of course that's just one issue. But, you know, at the end of the day, it is an important issue, I still think. And it kind of ties back to the question of should we have God's laws as our basis of morality? But at the end of the day, all laws are based on morality. The question is, whose morality you want? Do you want Sharia law? Do you want Judaism? Do you want Hinduism? Do you want secularism? Do you want North Korea? I mean, and, you know, as for me, I want the Bible to be, you know, the law of the land. It is.
- [21:31]
Host Mr. Nasty
It's a crazy question, right? Because as you just outlined, the slope is super slippery. You're talking about from 20. I remember arguing with my. My Pentecostal aunt. She. She like, co pastored a church with her husband, and they back then were doing protests against, you know, against gay people in. In Brooklyn. And I was kind of like, hey, are you. Do you think you're like, you know, provoking them? Or do you think that, like, you're maybe gonna cause a backlash? And they're like, no, no, like, you don't understand. This is gonna escalate. And at the time, I was like, I don't. I don't know. It seems like you guys are just being. Being on the street here. And then I look at Today, that's been 10 years. It's kind of been 10 years. Yeah. And we're. We're all, we're already here. But then it's all, you know, square that. Square that hole with like, all right, throw them off of a roof. Like, I'm not, I'm not there.
- [22:31]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
But I understand stoning a is a hard job. Like a hard.
- [22:35]
Host Mr. Nasty
It's real hard.
- [22:36]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Real hard.
- [22:36]
Host Mr. Nasty
Gets me hard. But it's, it's just. Stop it, man. It's just like, you understand the leap from there to make not just like, making it legal. But then, like, in 10 years after making that legal, now we're here where everything is gay. And I'm just like, is this a consequence of that? Is there no way to.
- [22:54]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Well, it's like there was a slippery slope argument made, right? That's like when we were younger, and they'd be like, if you let the homos get married, then they're going to come for the kids next. And so many people, you know, I was too young to affect any of these, you know, cultural ideologies or anything when I'm watching these conversations, and I remember thinking, like, that's a wild.
- [23:12]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah. I was like, that's no way.
- [23:13]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
And now I'm like, oh, actually, oh.
- [23:16]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, they're trans and the kids.
- [23:17]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
They're trans and the kids. Now I see what happened here, and I didn't think it was good.
- [23:20]
Host Mr. Nasty
I think. I don't know what to think about it. It's a bit uncomfortable, right? Because you do get to that situation where you're like, you know, x plus Y equals Z.
- [23:33]
Host Matthew Hepner
And then we're getting into the discussion of, are we talking about the laws of the land if we want to have, like, law and order in the land, and what's the action of the Church, which. Those are two totally separate things. Like, there's the life of the church, which is called out of the world, which is totally separate from the world, and then there's the laws of the land. And so it's like, which one are we kind of going under with all of this? I mean, there's homosexuals that repent and turn to Christ. Like, there's the story of the dude who came here that was in the Pulse nightclub shooting and was living an active homosexual life.
- [24:01]
Host Mr. Nasty
Spanish guy, right?
- [24:02]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah, he was in the Pulse nightclub shooting and repented. Like, he turned. He turned from it. He said, yeah, he told everybody he was born that way. They all gasped and everything. And he said, hey, you may not understand it because you weren't plagued with the sin that I was plagued with, but I was born this way. Like, I had desire for men, but then I knew that it was wrong, and I repented and I've turned to Christ. And the reason I could relate to somebody saying that is because I feel the same way about snorting oxycontins. Is like, I was born with a ferocious appetite to snort oxycontins, right? And they could have killed me for that. You know what I mean? And I lived, and I was able to repent and turn from it. And I was born again. I was changed from that nature. So I just, I don't know, are we talking about like laws of the land or the, or the job of the church?
- [24:44]
Host Mr. Nasty
Also, FYI, we are recording in a coffee shop. The back of it is a Christian library that does in casino, that does like meetings, Bible studies, you name it. People come here, there's a Christian library and they do their thing like this. So that's why, like a lot of.
- [25:00]
Host Matthew Hepner
Spurgeon in the back, he was a great Baptist.
- [25:03]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, go ahead, Jonathan.
- [25:06]
Jonathan Shelley
I mean, I'll be honest. Like, I, I have a different take when it comes to the, you know, sodomite issue, the reprobate issue. Like, I personally think that fags can't get saved at all. And I don't think that they're born that way. You know, in Romans, chapter number one. Well, no, at Romans chapter number one, the Bible says that they left the natural use of the woman. So, so biblically, the Bible says in Romans chapter one that they, they weren't born that way. They changed. At some point it talks about the women changed and it says that the men left the natural use of the woman. So I believe that what happens is someone rejects God repeatedly in their heart and mind, and then God gives them over to what the Bible calls a reprobate mind in Romans chapter one. And that after they become reprobate, they cannot be saved. There is two issues, though, and I agree with what, you know, you said that we're talking about the laws of the land or the response of the church. Like, while I believe that we should have laws like we had in the past where homosexuality is a capital fence, I'm not going to do anything about it. I'm not going to go out there and act, antagonize people, protest them. I'm not going to obviously take the law into my own hands. But as a church, obviously some people aren't even welcome at church. I mean, the Bible says in First Corinthians, chapter 5, there's certain lists as far as, like, covetous fornicators, railers, certain people aren't even allowed to be in church. They should be church disciplined. But specifically when it comes to the homosexual issue, like, I don't believe that they can be saved. I think they're all lying when they say that they, quote, repented. And you see a lot of these people creeping into churches, into nursery programs, into youth programs, saying they've repented, saying they have this under control. And then they end up still molesting children being wicked. Plus if I ask homosexuals what they have to do to be saved, they never give the right answers. They, they always say it's a works based salvation. So, you know, because they say they have to repent of their sins or do works to be saved as opposed to putting their faith in Jesus Christ. So anecdotally I've never met one biblically, I don't see that doctrine in the Bible. There's no character in the Bible that was like struggling with being a and then got right. Whereas obviously we all have sin, like you said oxycontin, okay? Anybody can be addicted to drugs. And we see even the prodigal son, you know, spending his money on riots, living in harlots, and then comes to himself and comes back to his father. So yeah, people can repent of major sins and get saved. But the Bible says in Romans chapter one that this is a punishment from God for having rejected him. Not a normal sin, it's not a natural sin, it's an abnormal sin. So, you know, I, I believe, you know, they can't be saved personally.
- [27:38]
Host Matthew Hepner
In the Romans one passage though, right, where it's talking about if you deny him as creator and just start to say like all it all just kind of came together by chance and then he steps away from them. And then like when God steps away from mankind for whatever reason, boys start humble boys and girls start humping girls. You wouldn't say that that's on like a society level is what that's dealing with. You're saying that's on an individual level of where a person rejects him as the creator, then he becomes a homosexual.
- [28:04]
Jonathan Shelley
Yes. Yeah. So I think it's, it's an. Again, it is talking about all of them, but they all have the same path, that they essentially are a manifestation of God's wrath. Because it says in Romans 1, verse 18, it says for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven. So something's been revealed from heaven. What is it? It's wrath. What is that wrath? That wrath is in punishing people by being a homosexual. Because as a straight, the worst punishment imaginable would be having a fag tendency or being acting like a fag or whatever. So that's the wrath of God being revealed from heaven. You know, you have to read the passage in context and again in, if you scroll down just a hair, it makes it clear that they weren't born this way because they totally changed in verse number 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections for Even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. So it doesn't say that they were born that way. It says they changed. And then Also in verse 27 it says, and likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust. So this is a consequence of rejecting the truth that God has offered to them repeatedly to the point where he makes them, quote, reprobate. That means rejected. So God gave up on them. God gives them over to this. That's why they do the things that they do. When you kind of see this, it kind of actually starts making sense. You know, homosexuals. Why are they having a higher proclivity to child molestation? Why are they typically just hate the Bible so much and hate God so much? You know, I preach against tons of sins for capital punishment. I think that murder should be put to death. I think rapist should be put to death. I think a lot of things, right? But I don't have the rape community coming out and protesting me. I don't have the murder community coming out and protesting me, right? I bridge against alcohol. I don't have the alcohol community coming out and preaching against me. Like, why is it that just the fags are the ones that come out in huge numbers admitting that they're of the Church of Satan, saying that they're witches, pagans and all this just nonsense, and that they're all harassing me and attacking me? Why is it that they, they actually changed the King James Bible into their own version called the Queen James Bible. And it's. You can buy it on Amazon. And they all, they did, they just, they took the King James Bible and they just took the handful of passages that I'm talking about right now and just changed those. They changed Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 18. They changed Romans 1. They just changed the handful of passages that are about them specifically, like, why aren't murderers doing this? Why isn't the murder community doing this? Why isn't the rape community doing this? It's, it's, it's a deception and that's why I made a whole movie about it. I don't expect everybody to agree with me on this issue, but I'm just being honest with my.
- [30:41]
Host Matthew Hepner
It is an interesting spirit, right? It's one thing if boy, oh yeah.
- [30:45]
Host Mr. Nasty
Here it is, the Queen James Bible humping a girl.
- [30:47]
Host Matthew Hepner
It's a whole other thing to put on a parade and demand that everybody accept it. And, and like I said, like when I was snorting oxycontins, I never had this idea of having a parade and demanding that everybody accept the fact that I love to snort oxycontins.
- [30:59]
Host Mr. Nasty
Right.
- [30:59]
Host Matthew Hepner
There's this very specific spirit that comes along with that lifestyle.
- [31:03]
Host Mr. Nasty
Well, this could actually lead us to this next topic. And I'm interested to hear what you think about this is. As you're talking about, you're talking about gay people. I'm thinking like just constantly, I'm like, trauma, trauma. Child induced trauma. Specifically, we're talking about molestation. We're talking about. How would you call this? Strongholds. Strongholds.
- [31:25]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Spiritual strongholds. Yeah, yeah.
- [31:27]
Host Mr. Nasty
And everybody that I told, like we did an episode about MK Ultra specifically, we were talking about some of the programs that went through. And of all people that reached out to, to me, Blair White, I'm sure you're familiar, reached out and was like, hey, that happened to me as a kid. And then now he's trying to, I don't know, figure out his relationship with Jesus. People jumping down his throat saying, you're not a Christian, you're not that. I'm like, you know, not right now. And I don't know, I don't, like, I don't, I don't, I don't agree with you that there is no path back for these people because they do exist and something happened to this guy and it's happened to millions and millions of kids, whether they were in the Sigma program or the, you know, they, they drank their, their pink drink.
- [32:15]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
They listened to this wild that.
- [32:17]
Host Mr. Nasty
The headphones a kid. And this is where it gets tricky. We're talking about like state mandated death. Well, right now we have state mandated MK Ultra transition for children.
- [32:26]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah.
- [32:26]
Host Mr. Nasty
And then it's paid for.
- [32:27]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah.
- [32:28]
Host Mr. Nasty
With, with the hormone therapy. But that's just like one side effect to it. There's a, there's a whole satanic side to it, which I think I. And this is going to sound crazy, but I think like when you start delving into this butthole stuff, that's like some sort of a portal. That's an opening for entities that are around, that are constantly around us to come in.
- [32:47]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah. That's why all these occultists practice sex.
- [32:50]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah. This is exactly. Aleister Crowley wouldn't be doing this. Like the homosexuality going on underneath the Statue of Liberty, which is a copper statue in the middle of, you know, Butt Sex City wouldn't be there and it wouldn't be that powerful if there weren't spiritual implications to this. So now I'm like, we're talking about it on a governmental level. And I know this is not what this episode's about, but, like, it's kind of. I want to pick your brain about where you're at as far as these entities go that I believe are around us, that I believe are welcomed in by people and maybe sometimes not even knowingly. Like, as a child, how could you. How could you significantly welcome in an entity that will be with you your entire life, that somebody put on you, somebody did something to you. Open this up. And now you have this stronghold. And as a church or as believers, or as the body of Christ, I'm going to say throw them off a building. It doesn't sit right with me in this space.
- [33:45]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
We listen to a lot of satanic ritual abuse survivors, right? And these are the people that come out of the other end and they have their testimony about the stuff that they went through as kids. You imagine they're probably, as far as a representation of that group goes, a very small percentage. Because the vast majority of the people that experience SRA in childhood go on to likely just be abusers. I mean, the statistics on, like, gay people and whether or not they were abused in childhood, I think back in.
- [34:10]
Host Mr. Nasty
The 60s, one to one, dog. It's crazy.
- [34:12]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah, it was like seven out of ten would. Would say that they experienced some sort of sexual trauma during childhood, which is interesting because Stranger Things is kind of admitting that in some way they're like, yeah, this kid, he's gay, but he's also full of demons. Isn't that funny? And so, you know, it's just wild because how many people go through that system of satanic ritual abuse and then they don't share their testimony. They just grow up to be the monster that they were subjected to in childhood. And I mean, you know, the idea, well, there's no salvation.
- [34:44]
Host Mr. Nasty
That beast that now controls this system tells them that it's great and throws a parade.
- [34:48]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Hell yeah, dude.
- [34:48]
Host Mr. Nasty
So, yeah, we're dealing with something that is bizarre. I mean, I don't. I don't know how to approach it. I guess in the Old Testament, we're reading like God was like, go in there and kill all. Everything, all the goats. So there's precedent for that. But then we have to think about what Jesus did. And Jesus is talking to the alcoholics, he's talking to the sinners, he's talking to the. The prostitutes. And I'm like, okay, where are we under.
- [35:11]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Now it does seem crazy too, that Paul is a murderer of Christians, but there is salvation for him. But if you BF a dude, no Salvation for you?
- [35:21]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I think these are, these are things that are important to discuss. I mean, when it comes to child abuse, you know, obviously it's a horrific thing. All child abusers should be put to death. When it comes to the children that are being abused, I think statistically 20, approximately 25 of females admit to having been abused as a child at some point. So obviously while it could be really close, like you said, one to one or seven out of 10, you know, people that end up becoming homosexual were molested as a children, it doesn't mean that it's one for one and just everyone that's abused though, because it's not 25% of the female population that's a lesbian. It's not, you know, whatever percentage of men that are abused. So you can be abused. And that doesn't mean you're going to turn in into this kind of like horrific monster yourself. You can still choose to make good decisions for yourself. The Bible does bring up uncomfortable topics though. In Second Peter chapter number two, the Bible talks about people that are cursed children. And when we talk about false prophets, evil people, obviously some of them had a bad upbringing, a bad childhood, you know, when it comes to, you know, sinners being saved, the apostle Paul does describe himself as chief of sinners. Now I think that was hyperbole personally, but obviously he was involved in serious sin and he was saved. Obviously Rahab the harlot was saved. Obviously there's prostitutes, there's people addicted drugs, alcohol, there's murderers that are saved in the Bible. But think about it, if you have all these horrific situations, you have murderers and people involved in false religion and all these different things that get saved. But then you have zero examples of homosexuals getting saved. That's noteworthy. Sodom and Gomorrah was not. The angels weren't sitting down there to preach the gospel to them. It was to torch the place. It was just to take the few people that could be redeemed out lot in his family and then towards the place. And here's the thing, the devil's not stupid. The devil already understands this doctrine. So the devil already realizes the reprobate doctrine, so in his minions do as well. So if you're in a satanic cult, if you're in politics and you want to have a completely compromised individual, you know that if you can get this person to perform an act of sodomy, that they are not and ever get saved, they're never going to love the truth, they're never going to do what's Right. And they're going to be a completely compromised individual forever. It's basically your way of just initiating them to make sure they're going to never turn on you, in a sense. And so that's why I think in politics and in these high up elite clubs, they try to get the celebrities, they try to get the politicians, whoever they want to commit these acts, to just confirm, okay, this guy's on the devil's side. Because now we know for sure that he's in our club. Because no saved person, no normal person would ever cross that line. That's a line that a normal saved person will not cross. And they don't want to invest millions of dollars into these people if they can't take him to the finish line. And so that's when it comes to all the celebrities, all this stuff. They want to get them to do these acts to make sure they're on the right team. It's kind of like in gangs how they want people to kill someone to make sure not an undercover cop, because they don't want. They don't. Undercover cops can't kill people. Like, there's certain boundaries they can't even cross. And so they're gonna say, hey, can, you know, kill this person to prove that you're not a cop? It's kind of like they're saying, hey, perform this act of sodomy to prove that you're not a Christian or you're not going to change or you're not going to get a conscience eventually and wake up on us. So, you know, I think that's how it kind of relates into what you're bringing up.
- [38:38]
Host Mr. Nasty
That. That's an it. Honestly. That's an interesting point. Right. Because it always does kind of come down to that. I was thinking that, yeah, that is the. The deal breaker. I think it. I think that argument does give a lot of power to the devil, the adversary, which I'm not going to do, but there's something to it. But you just mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah and that kind of like. I think we could swing this back to what I brought you here to talk about a little bit. They. They knock on Lot's door and they said, give us those angels. We want to blap those angels.
- [39:07]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah.
- [39:08]
Host Mr. Nasty
You know, and it's like, all right, that passage there, we can kind of look at it and go. They just. They're just super horny. And maybe these angels are very handsome. Maybe they're, you know, the tall Norths, that tall white people, blonde hair. They stuck out. They knew what they were, and they knew exactly what they were. Why did they want to have sex with them so badly just to do it, or is there something more?
- [39:34]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, I think, you know, when you read that story, the Bible says that every single man came out, all the men, both young and old. So regardless if they were attractive or not, I think they wanted to defile anything and everything in their path. So, you know, I'm not saying the angels weren't attractive, but I'm saying I don't know that even necessarily mattered. I think that they could have been two of the ugliest guys we've ever seen. It could have been Tim Waltz and Anthony Fauci, and they would have been, you know, ready to, you know, throw down. So it just basically the fact that they were, you know, walking in their town, that's what these guys do. They defile everything that comes into sight. And it was just to say, like, hey, these people are really that bad, and they're really going to harm and hurt anything in their pathway. So obviously, they defiled all the young children. So they've ran out of. Ran out. And this we have to understand about talking about the slippery slope. First, it's not criminalized. Then if they can get married, then it's children, then it's the trainee stuff. But here's the thing. Eventually they run out of all the people that are even willing participants. So then they have to start going to where they're going to actually force and rate people that are not interested in this as well. And that's the next layer. So, like the Sodom and Gomorrah downward spiral is they're going to run out of children that are willing or they can. They can defile to. Then. Now it's like, okay, now we just want to take anything innocent, precious, even if you don't want to. And we're going to. We're going to bring you out. Judges 19 and Genesis 19 is the exact same story where they're trying to draw men out. So certain sons of Belial are coming and beset in the house roundabout, and they want to bring the man out that they may know him. And of course, you know, it's the same story even in judges 19. It's not angels at all. I think the angels just look like men. They're. They're acting like men. In that particular story, I don't. I don't think that the city inhabitants are perceiving their angels at all. That's just my personal, you know, opinion. On how the. How to read that passage. But you know, again, it's just these guys want to defile anything and everything they can.
- [41:33]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Do you remember when there were prisoners? Was it in Israel? There was like prisoners and, and they were all lining up outside.
- [41:42]
Host Mr. Nasty
What you're talking about like the metal pole.
- [41:43]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
I don't know if it was with the metal pole. I just know like that, you know, if you briefly looked at like the headlines of the situation, the, the virality of it was citizens in Israel are demanding these prisoners be released so that they can rape them. No, that's what I remember reading. You remember that?
- [42:00]
Host Mr. Nasty
Dude, what happened was the soldiers were sodomizing the prisoners with like metal poles. And then the soldiers were arrested or like put in some kind of, I don't know, military court. And then the citizens were protesting like violently.
- [42:14]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Get out here because I want them out.
- [42:16]
Host Mr. Nasty
No, no, no. To get the soldiers from.
- [42:20]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Dude, that just reminded me of that. That's an interesting.
- [42:23]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I think they wanted to liberate. I think they wanted to liberate the prisoners from torture specifically.
- [42:28]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Okay, so they didn't want to butt the.
- [42:30]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, yeah. The prisoners were harming them. Them or I'm sorry, the prison guards. I mean.
- [42:35]
Host Mr. Nasty
Got you.
- [42:35]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Gotcha.
- [42:36]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, yeah. That's not how I read this situation. Let him go. Yeah, that was a damn. Look at these guys.
- [42:40]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Really.
- [42:41]
Jonathan Shelley
Anyway, it's like that one movie. Isn't there a movie like this? It's like Kevin Bacon. I don't know. There's like a Hollywood. Yeah, no, there's some. There's some horrific Hollywood movie where they have the prison guards like raping all the young boys. It's like, it's like Hollywood always wants to put this perversion into your mind. It's a pretty popular film.
- [42:59]
Host Mr. Nasty
Maybe I can look at that. That right there as well. Jonathan. Like Hollywood, the media, music that's always being put into people's minds. So yeah, if you're going to say 25% of women that are, you know, molested do turn out this way, it's like. Yeah, but what about like this is just a constant bukka. It's called sleepers. It's that constant propaganda towards people that are become this way. And it's like, it's hard for me to be like, well, if they fell for it, they fell for it. I guess they're gone. Right?
- [43:27]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Well, he brings up a good point because it's like everybody's subjected to it. Not everybody comes out doing that. But it is like a sophisticated machine. We make fun of women's media a lot because it's like, is it really, you know, a girl flick, like a chick flick if nobody gets raped? You know, like there's not every time some. There's some media, like really popular media. Think of any of the big viral shows, like A Handmaid's Tale or what.
- [43:52]
Host Mr. Nasty
The hell ever 50 shades of gray.
- [43:54]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Everybody's always getting raped. And it's like, you know, then you look into the whole. They have romance novels and it's like, I was. I'm in a loving relationship with a minotaur. It's like, what the is going on here? But there's so much of it that it. That has that like sprinkled into it, you know, it's. I get it. Not everybody comes out. Well, we're all subjected to that same propaganda, but not everybody makes those choices. But it is a sophisticated machine.
- [44:19]
Host Mr. Nasty
So that's a good idea right there. From the, the idea of the minotaur or the idea of like this trend, this transgender movement that has moved into. They call themselves Therion or furries, but they are gay or transgenders.
- [44:32]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah.
- [44:32]
Host Mr. Nasty
And the furries are representing some sort of animalistic feature which to us as conspiracy theorists, when we look at it, it looks like human genetic hybrid stuff.
- [44:45]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah. It's like, you know, you're a. You're an upright walking dog dude banging another.
- [44:49]
Host Mr. Nasty
I love, I love his face. He's like, fuck that. But it is.
- [44:52]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I don't, I'm not, I'm not really into the hybrids thing, but the B does condemn bestiality, so. So obviously the Bible brings up men, you know, especially, you know, Islamicist with their favorite goat doing their thing, but they didn't produce any to have big ass cheeks.
- [45:08]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Have you seen that? Yeah, that's it. Crazy, dude. These thick ass goats.
- [45:12]
Jonathan Shelley
I mean, I know Somalia's low IQ, but I think that they're all human. So 68.
- [45:17]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Did you know that 68 is the average IQ of Somali alien? It's actually. Legally. That's fascinating. All right, please.
- [45:25]
Host Mr. Nasty
Well, I mean, listen. Animal. Human hybrids is not a new thing. It's going on now. It's been going on for a long time. We have, there's architecture, there are mythological creatures, there's. There are statues built to this.
- [45:38]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
It's.
- [45:39]
Host Mr. Nasty
It's within every pagan religion. They're worshiping some sort of something that, that resembles an animal. Even the Bible, I mean, the Bible shows the angels with the head of an oxen. The head of like, it was a.
- [45:50]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Head of Head of an eagle, head of an oxen, head of a lion, head of a man.
- [45:53]
Host Mr. Nasty
So this is not like this idea of mixing up bloodlines is not strange. It's not strange. Especially like, again, to go back to the transgenderism thing.
- [46:02]
Host Matthew Hepner
The.
- [46:03]
Host Mr. Nasty
What they call themselves the Therion. There they are, Therion. But that's also a principle in Aleister Crowley's works.
- [46:10]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Oh, Thelema.
- [46:11]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah. In. In the Limic magic. So it's, it's kind of rhyming and repeating itself. And for us, we look at something like the Nephilim agenda, where it's like you're taking, you're making a hybrid of something and you're making an abomination. And this just continues whether it be with animals, whether it be with angels and real people. And this is kind of, this is the disagreement that we had initially on Twitter. But I kind of want to hear your, your side of it and where you're coming from, because Stephen Anderson gave me an answer that I thought was. I thought it was dog, to be honest. He said, yeah, you know, the Bible doesn't say that. We read it in plain English. And I was like, yeah, but the Hebrew does say that. And when you look at the actual transliteration of what that word was before it was translated by King James, who was an occultist, it said something specific. But what do you, what do you think about this specifically?
- [47:07]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Genesis 6?
- [47:07]
Host Matthew Hepner
Are you asking?
- [47:08]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah, Yeah.
- [47:10]
Jonathan Shelley
I mean, again, we're probably not going to agree on this, but again, my, my opinion is that giants is the right English word there. I don't believe in angels mating with humans for about five, I think, like five specific reasons. But even if you go beyond the King James Bible, before King James was even born, you have to realize that the English Bible still existed. So we have essentially the first English Bible was John Wycliffe. But the King James isn't even coming from that specific heritage. It's coming from William Tyndale specifically. And you have several, you have like seven versions basically leading up to the King James. They're all saying that the same thing. The word Nephilim is the Hebrew underlying word. So we can't get away from the word existing. I'm just saying that I do believe the right interpretation is giants and that we're just talking about really tall humans. We see some giants mentioned the Bible, obviously David had to kill the Great Goliath and, and he's considered a giant 9ft something tall king. The king of Baishan Og, the king of Beijing, has Got a bed that's just giant. So we don't know exactly how tall he was, but he could have been anywhere from 9 to 10, 12ft. Some of these heights, obviously, I don't think we have a single human that's reached those heights today, but we still have people pretty tall. I mean, we have eight footers. We've had people around that, around that size. So it's not like, not like inconceivable. But for me, like, I just don't understand, like, you know, you read the Book of Enoch, which is where a lot of people are coming up with this idea. And the book of Enoch is saying that these giants or These hybrids are 300 Ls or 3,000 Ls and it's like, it, it's like 2.1 miles tall, which is bigger than any skyscraper we have on the planet. I guess I'm just kind of confused, like how, how, how are people actually interpreting these passages if they actually believe in these hybrids? Like, do you not think that Goliath was just a man?
- [49:00]
Host Matthew Hepner
Could we, could we read it real quick and then just have you kind of dissect it? We just take it straight from the King James. So it's not Enoch or anything. It says Genesis 6, 1. And it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the Lord said, my spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh, yet his days shall be 120 years. There were giants in the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bear children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. So would you say that verse four, where, where it does say that there were giants in the earth in those days, and then it seems to be, you know, giving the reason is that when the sons of God came in the daughters of men, would you say you wouldn't draw that conclusion, that that's connected the way it says that?
- [49:55]
Jonathan Shelley
No, I think it's connected. I, I just, I think what we differ on probably is just the sons of God is probably typically where the, the controversy is. But again, the, the context matters. And I'm glad that you read this because it says when men began to multiply, it doesn't say when angels began to multiply. Additionally, in verse two, it says that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair and they took them wise of all which they chose. It says that he's not going to always strive with. Notice this again, man, not angels or hybrids. And then he says that he's also flesh. The Bible is really clear that angels are ministering spirits. They're not flesh. So you know, can I ask you have man, man, man. And then you know, it's men again in verse four. Like I just to me I think it's consistent that it's staying within man as the.
- [50:42]
Host Matthew Hepner
We would, we would say that too. It makes a very distinction, very distinct line between man and then sons of God. Yeah, that seems like it does go to great lengths to make to draw that distinction.
- [50:52]
Host Mr. Nasty
6:1 to 6:2. Like yeah, when men began to multiply and they were daughters born to them, then it goes. The sons of God saw that. It's like so who are the sons of God? Like now we're talking about the Sethite lineage or who do you.
- [51:05]
Jonathan Shelley
I just interpret as save people. I think it's safe. It's coming from Seth's line. But not all sets line saved. So sons of God would just be people that are saved and, and for God, like God kind of allows the heathen or wicked to do their thing, but he gets really mad when Christians and saved people are intertwining themselves with wickedness. So I just look at it as like you kind of have Seth's line and you have Cain's line. And it's the way I interpret this is that Seth has most of his descendants are the ones where the saved people are coming from, but they just get enticed with a lot of Cain's ancestors and, and his I'm not answers but descendants. And specifically you have saved people marrying unsaved women, which is forbidden in the Bible. It says in First Corinthians chapter number six that we shouldn't be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. So I think it's just men just got really carnal and lustful and so they just started having tons of wives and just they, they started popping out all kinds of kids. Of course some of them were giants. And then again that's why it says in verse five and God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth. So again God's mad at man. That's why he killed man. He didn't just kill like the angels only or the hybrids only or just the giants only. He kills every single living creature on the earth. And it says about man specifically, the imagination of his thought of his heart was only evil continually. My problem is that in verse four, if we say angels are the problem in verse four, then my question is, why did God kill men who were not a part of this union? Because if we're saying just, I'm just this dude and I'm just living my life, whatever, and then over here in this other corner, angels are doing their thing, then why is God mad at me? The reason why God was mad at me is because I was sleeping with the daughters of men and I was creating, you know, basically just these just. It was going for all carnal and all lustful reasons. I wasn't really caring about the things of God that that's how I interpret it. And I'm sure that we differ on this, but that's just how I interpret it.
- [52:59]
Host Mr. Nasty
No, I. I like that interpretation. Especially like with, you know, there is pressing in the Bible over and over again about man falling to some puss. I get it. You got David, you got. You have his son that's going to Egypt. And it's like, these are things that are strictly prohibited. Because now you're mixing, you're mixing. It gets tricky, right? We're mixing bloodlines. Now we're talking about race mixing. And like that. Is that wrong? Is that something that we should. I don't know about race mixing, but culture mixing, there's something to say about that, right? Because a lot of stuff does get lost and a lot of things do get confused.
- [53:31]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Well, one of the questions I have is you can see, you know, you're saying that this isn't a point we're necessarily going to agree on, but I'm sure you can see how the scripture lends itself to some of these conclusions depending upon the interpretation of the reader. It would be a reasonable thing if you did suppose that they were talking about angels and that the mighty men or men of renown were something more akin to, you know, let's say what many other mythologies call like a demigod. A reasonable thing to do is to then go and look towards antiquity to see if there are any other instances of this. And what you find is almost unilaterally across the board. Ancient civilizations all have giants in their mythos and demigods in their mythos. And we're talking.
- [54:24]
Host Mr. Nasty
And we could call them. We can call this stuff bullshit.
- [54:26]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
It could be deceptions. Absolutely.
- [54:27]
Host Mr. Nasty
But.
- [54:28]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, you know, I think there's. There's definitely been giants. That's just. That's just a fact. I mean the Bible says giants. I think everybody agrees there's giants when it comes to this, this hybrid stuff. Obviously you even have the Bible describing interesting characters like I'll describe Cherubim and seraphim are often these like hybrid mixes of animals and man or whatever. So, so we have some kind of an angelic being that has some kind of a hybrid. But I think also you kind of have a pattern in the Bible where you know, dogs produce dogs, elephants produce elephants, man produces man. There is a passage in Hebrews that clearly says to which of the angels said he at any time thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. So that's a passage saying these never called angels sons. And I don't think angels get the privilege of being the sons of God or being brethren with the Lord Jesus Christ. I think when it comes to the demigod issue, most of that's a bastardization of the gospel and Jesus Christ because if we think about Jesus Christ, he's God becoming flesh. And this is where you get things like Hercules, you get other characters that are this kind of like quote, half God, half human. And it's all just again bastardizations of what the Bible's teaching about God being putting on flesh. Obviously you know, the devil himself, the Bible describes him as in a cherub. So you know, and then a cherub in the book of Ezekiel is described as having a calf's face. So I believe that the devil actually has a calf's face. So that's why you see a lot of false religions, satanic religions. Yeah, worship like worshiping like a cow. You have Hinduism worshiping the cow, you have Baphomet that kind of has this like cows looking face. The Bible does also describe how angels can transform and transfigure. So I think that the devil can transform. Obviously the devil inhabits the serpent, you have demons inhabiting swine in the book of Genesis. I'm sorry, in the, in the gospels and they like violently run down the steep cliff. So I'm not saying that there isn't some things that are mentioned in the Bible. Obviously people have had all this wood pagan stuff. Obviously bestiality has been a part of many satanic and evil cultures and civilizations. So of course then they create all this weird nonsense. But yeah, I, I do think that there's going to be some false stuff too. Right. I mean when it comes to dinosaurs, is every single dinosaur that they've invented and create cast for legit? I don't know. But the Bible does bring up dragons. We have dragon history throughout, you know, time. But everything that's. If we go back and we just look at all civilizations and all things they said, there's definitely a lot of bs. So I guess the question is, how do we know what's right or wrong? I'm kind of just trying to stick with the text and I think if there were hybrids, why wouldn't there be hybrids today? Like, did women suddenly get unattractive or something? Because I feel like if angels could do it, then why wouldn't they be doing it now?
- [57:09]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
You actually do have a constant. It depends on how far down.
- [57:13]
Host Mr. Nasty
Before we go into this, I just want to address something you said about. Yeah, the angels not being called the sons of God. And that's a translation we're even reading from the king. I agree with that verse that you quoted there. But when you look at the actual Hebrew, that, that, that translation only shows up twice. The Bene Elohim shows up twice here. And then it shows when, when we're talking about sons of God. And it shows up in the book of Job twice. And it only shows up in the book of Job when they're describing God speaking with his heavenly counsel. And then obviously Satan approaches and God lets him tempt Job. But it says that when God is speaking with the Beneha Elohim, the sons of God, and they're talking, they're delegating whatever they're doing, then they are approached by Satan, you understand?
- [58:03]
Jonathan Shelley
So. Well, again, I, I just still interpret. Job one is say people. So that's, that's, it's, it's kind of like, it depends on your consistency. Like, I just don't believe sons of God ever means angels in any passage. So like in Job one, I think it's just all the people that have died and are heaven. So you got people like Abel, you got people like Abraham, Moses, they're all presenting themselves before the Lord in heaven. That's how I interpret Job, chapter number number one. So again, it's just. Look, the, the fact that sons of God are angels is kind of a popular idea. A lot of people do subscribe to that. It's just, I, I just personally don't.
- [58:37]
Host Matthew Hepner
What about if we look at Jude and it says he's starting in verse five, he says, I will therefore put you in remembrance, though you once knew this. And I just want to say one thing real quick before I go off on that, because I had to cut for a minute. I agree. I think this thing can get out of whack. If you say that, like, fallen angels came in bred with humans, and then the issue in the day of the flood wasn't man. I agree with you. 100. The issue is man. In that day, regardless of fallen angels breeding with women or not, man's responsible for the earth. Well, it's also 100aman issue regardless of what angels did.
- [59:09]
Host Mr. Nasty
It's. It's interesting to me. Yeah, the punishment is on man. But when he says that, it draws.
- [59:14]
Host Matthew Hepner
A lot of distinction in that passage.
- [59:16]
Host Mr. Nasty
The wickedness of man was great in the earth that day, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart were only evil continually.
- [59:23]
Host Matthew Hepner
Man's fault. That's not.
- [59:24]
Host Mr. Nasty
But that's the same case as in Sodom and Gomorrah. And that's why he had to murk that place. And it's like, well, they were just trying to have sex with angels. So then you kind of draw this weird conclusion of like, did they know something? Did they know that you could create, I don't know, some sort of a weird hybrid thing. People are doing this shit now. And we can keep our heads in the, in the sand on this, but every country in the world is doing this where, like our government right now is talking about some weird disclosure shit where, where we're mentioning aliens and it's not aliens. These are, these are entities that have been with us for a long time.
- [59:55]
Jonathan Shelley
I mean, obviously, I think today in medical modern technology, you have people getting transplants that are from animals. Right. I mean, isn't it. I think they've gotten like pig hearts and different animal parts and trying to mix them with man. And so obviously there's some franken science that's happening. How far can they take it? I'm not going to say I know exactly. I do. I do think that we've never scientifically proven reproduction between kinds. We don't have dogs and elephants creating a hybrid. We don't have, you know, you know, things crossing different kinds of animals. Obviously there's speciation. I'm just saying we, you know, I don't think that we have examples of human DNA reproducing with another type of kind of animal. And again, maybe it exists. You want to suggest it exists potentially behind closed doors. I don't know. But I'm just saying, like in the open at least. I don't think that it's there. I don't think it personally will ever get there. I think with AI, it's interesting how much we can maybe merge with technology. And I don't know what the. I don't know what the limits are on that with the transhumanism stuff. Yeah, you're never gonna have a life.
- [61:01]
Host Mr. Nasty
In today's day and age. It's very tricky. But there's like, I know there's thousands upon thousands of testimonies about just cryptid sightings, cryptid encounters, things like this. And, you know, you don't have to believe this stuff, but if enough people do say it, you have to go, okay, well, what happened here? Is everybody confused? Is there Bigfoot? Is there a dog? Man? What are you seeing here? Mothman. Very strange. And then I think we have to consider, like, alien.
- [61:28]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
It's not nice.
- [61:29]
Host Mr. Nasty
Dude, how dare you?
- [61:30]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Yeah, the. The alien abduction that soon because phenomenon. Yeah, they're doing some sort of disclosure, you know, supposedly.
- [61:37]
Host Mr. Nasty
But I mean, what is. What is the trope when it comes to alien abduction stuff? It's like, it's. Yeah, they're going to put something in your butt, but they're also going to do some weird genetic testing, manipulation on you. It's always something to do with the uterus or they're taking your sperm.
- [61:49]
Host Matthew Hepner
This dude's straight Bible. I don't.
- [61:50]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
I get it.
- [61:51]
Jonathan Shelley
I get it, but.
- [61:52]
Host Mr. Nasty
You got it. He's not straight Bible. Yeah, but.
- [61:54]
Jonathan Shelley
But isn't. I think he's in the movie with Brute or Mel Gibson. He's like. It's like conspiracy or something. Like this is the name of the movie.
- [62:03]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
And he thinks.
- [62:04]
Jonathan Shelley
He thinks it's like, aliens, but it's really just the government experimenting on him and stuff. Like, maybe there's just misdirection when it comes to, quote, aliens and MK Ultra stuff. They. They don't want their subjects to think that actual humans are doing it. So Fauci's in here with an alien mask, you know, doing weird Covid stuff to them or something.
- [62:21]
Host Mr. Nasty
Right. No problem.
- [62:22]
Jonathan Shelley
I don't know.
- [62:22]
Host Mr. Nasty
So the government is running a human hybrid program where they're doing genetic manipulation. I mean, Trump just approved funding for, like, ivf, so now we have government funding where they'll take your sperm and your eggs and we'll store them, no problem, and we'll pay for it. It's like, yeah, that's. To me, it's a little weird. We're walking that. That bizarre line of trust the plan. And what. What are you actually doing here? And is this anything new?
- [62:47]
Host Matthew Hepner
I don't think it's Q1 5. Goes like this. It goes, I will therefore put you in remembrance, though you once knew this. How that the Lord having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believe not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved an everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner, going, giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Do you, do you have like a specific Bible passage that you would connect that verse six to? That's a. That's about the angels, if it's not about the fallen ones in Genesis 6. Like, do you, do you have another passage of scripture that you would connect that to?
- [63:39]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, you have like Revelation chapter 12. And I don't think you can directly connect these. These would be just on the same subject matter. But you know, this is obviously a previous event that happened in Jude 1, verse 6. I believe that Revelation 12 is actually a future event. But you do see Satan cast out of heaven at some point. And I think that their estate is, quote, heaven and that they left their own habitation, meaning that they didn't want to be in heaven, they didn't want to serve God. They rebelled against the Lord and so as a result, some of them have already been sent to hell, obviously not all of them. And we see some demons like the Legion talking to Jesus and saying, hey, don't send us to hell early. You know, so like, obviously it's on the table. If they were afraid of that, then stands a reason that some angels, fallen angels, had already been sent to hell and are already in hell awaiting judgment and that these particular demons were allowed to just continue to exist on the earth doing their thing. The devil says that he goes about going throughout the earth. The Bible describes him as a roaring lion. Some people think like the devil's in hell. Some people get confused. I think the Bible's clear that the devil can go to heaven and he's on earth most of the time. So that he's the prince of the power of the air is that those Bible describes him. He's the God of this world. He's obviously deceiving the lost. At some point he'll be thrown into hell. So that means he's not in hell as described in the book of Revelation. So, you know, again, I think it's just whatever. Angels rebelled with the devil and we could all debate when that actually happened. I don't know. Sometime prior to, I think Adam and Eve sinning. But they left their own habitation. Some of them are in hell, some of them are not. I don't know exactly how God decides that. Obviously some of these things are a mystery. But those are the only two passages I can think of off top of my head. Like you have demons saying, don't send me there before. Then you have a passenger revelation talking about Satan being cast out of heaven and it says that he drew a third of the stars with him. And it kind of using that language sounds like maybe that's talking about other angels that sided with the devil or in his rebellion. So perhaps, you know, that's why a lot of people say like the devil has a third of the angels or something like that. That's kind of where that illusion is coming from. In the book of Revelation, chapter 12.
- [65:55]
Host Mr. Nasty
Oh, according to your like denomination, how do you classify demons then? What is a demon? Because there's a delineation between a fallen angel and a demon.
- [66:05]
Jonathan Shelley
I think it's an evil spirit. So you have come from where? Yeah, you have. Again, you have. The angels are described as ministering spirits. So all angels are spirits. They're their own classification. And some of them rebelled. And so you have quote, fallen angels or fallen spirits, evil spirits. I, I think all of that's fine. You have demons mentioned in the Bible. The Bible talks about the Satan having his ministers. So you know, obviously a lot of times it's also referring just the Jews, but it can also, I think refer to the fallen angels as well.
- [66:43]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
So there are points where it's, it's, there's a sort of a stack up, right? Devils, demons and unclean spirits. And that's a fascinating point when you look at it. You go, why did, why was it fit to, to separate these things into, into three different categories? Are we using three different words to describe the exact same thing in the exact same breath? Or are there, you know, different categories among these things? Is a devil a higher ranking thing? And I guess there's not really any way to know. Okay.
- [67:13]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I think so. I mean even the Catholic Church has angelology or angiology or whatever where they have, they literally have a classification. They have like 10 plus classifications of angels. But basically it's just your proximity to God himself. And we have to understand about the devil. He was the anointed cherub that covereth and it says that he had walked on the stones of fire. So if you understand how the Bible describes heaven, God is at the top, he's at the highest point and he's Sitting on a live culpit. So his throne is there. On the live culprit, there's a rainbow that goes around God's head. And the Bible describes the devil would have been an anointed cherub that was standing there where God is covering God at some point, almost arguably the highest ranking angel in a sense. But then he got kicked out of heaven obviously for rebelling because of his beauty. He, he was lifted up in pride. And is it interesting, pride and the rainbow are directly connected to God's throne. And then we see that those are the most satanic rebellious people against God. God obviously uses the rainbow to promise that he's not going to pour out wrath on this world or flood the world again. The Bible says in Roman, in Revelation chapter 12, the devil's going to try and destroy the entire earth with a flood again. So obviously that rainbow promises is not going to happen. But then you have cherubims and seraphims. These are also just high ranking angels that are there. You have four at the corners of God's throne that basically carry it. They're the ones that take the live coals out from the pit and they'll hand it to people, you know, in the particular text of scripture in different places, obviously you have lower angels kind of going down. So I'm not going to say that all angels are the same. Obviously Gabriel is described in Michael the Archangel. So archangels, you have like archangels. Then you have cherubs, you have seraphims and they have different numbers of wings, they have different responsibilities. And it's basically their hierarchy is in proximity to the throne itself. Your proximity to the throne is your hierarchy in a sense. That's why the, the sun gets to sit on the throne at the right hand of the Father because he has the rank of God, because he's God. So you have the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they're all God. And you have the Father and the Son both sitting on the throne. And so that's like the most high ranking position. You have the, you have the 12 elders or the 24 elders. You have the men that are there and they have crowns and they're kind of a high ranking status among men and among the sons of God. But basically hierarchy is your proximity to God. That's how I think the Bible basically lays it out.
- [69:40]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
So the Book of Enoch has obviously become a major book when it comes to this point of contention. And you know, it's worth mentioning that it's non canonical. The Ethiopian Bible kept it in There Never, never omitted it. But this is where a lot of people lean on the idea that a demon is the disembodied spirit of a Nephilim, because that's what the Book of Enoch says. What do you make of Enoch specifically?
- [70:06]
Host Mr. Nasty
Just to, to argue against my own co host and the name of my show here, the Book of Enoch is like, I think it's formulated or rediscovered in 1948.
- [70:15]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
47.
- [70:16]
Host Mr. Nasty
1947, which is when, I don't know, all these government programs begin. When Israel Project. Yeah, you name it. Very, yeah, very peculiar.
- [70:26]
Host Matthew Hepner
You don't like to have to go extra biblical to talk about this stuff. Like you can go straight Bible to have these discussions about like, yeah, a demon specifically has to get in a body to act things out, whereas an angel doesn't. Like an angel's eating, doing things, potentially having sex, or dudes are trying to bone them in. Sodom and Gomorrah, we can agree that that's potentially so they could be bled. So there's like this different thing where like a, like a fallen angel is not a thing that needs another body to act anything out, whereas a demon does need to be in a host body to act something out. And so that's where we would draw some differentiality. Just straight Bible not based on any extra biblical text.
- [71:03]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I mean, I agree with your point. The, the Bible, I did a whole sermon on angels and demons and stuff. And you definitely see angels interacting with mankind in different ways. You see them doing things like eating, touching, grabbing, but they even interact with each other because you have one of the angels talking about how he was held up by the Prince of Persia. So you kind of have like a demonic force wrestling with another angelic force. And that's why they couldn't get to Daniel in the timeline that they wanted. So, you know, I don't know what the limitations are when it comes to demonic spirits and things like that. I agree with you that they're pretty much inhabiting hosts for the most part to do a lot of the interactions. Even the devil himself enters the Antichrist instead of just presenting himself, he basically inhabits the Antichrist. So I, I don't understand all the transformations of like how and what limitations they may or may not have. But when it comes to the Book of Enoch, you know, I just, I just don't really put much credence on any extra biblical book, no matter what it is. There's some interesting stories in some of them. Obviously Maccabees talks about the Maccabean Revolt. I'm sure some of that history is probably accurate, but it's also not Bible. You have Bell and the Dragon, which is an extra book to the book of Daniel, describes Daniel like actually killing a dragon. And so it's kind of an interesting story.
- [72:25]
Host Matthew Hepner
Those last two chapters in Daniel are weird.
- [72:28]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, they are weird.
- [72:30]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah.
- [72:30]
Jonathan Shelley
But I find the book of Enoch to be similar and that I read passages in it and I think, yeah, this doesn't seem legitimate at all. You know, specifically the size of the. The. The children produced, you know, 3,000 Ls or whatever. Whatever that is. Like, some people say it's 450ft tall, not 11,000, which, even if it was 450ft tall, like, let's be reasonable. This just doesn't seem like it fits reality. I think some people say, like, oh, that's what a mountain is. Like, mountain is a fallen angel. And then now it's just been covered up or whatever, and it's like, no, actually, that was just America bombing Germany, and then we turned it into a trash heap later. But that's, you know, again, I. I don't really have a lot of respect for the book of Enoch, personally. It doesn't mean that some of it couldn't be true. Sometimes just copying the Bible and just saying the same thing the Bible does. Reworded. Obviously there's an allusion to it in Jude. It says, you know, you know, as Enoch also prophesied, then people be like, oh, that's. Is that like the Book of Enoch? I just think it's Enoch quoting the Bible in the future that we didn't have yet. So the word of God could be quoted at any time, I think by prophets. I don't think he had an actual book. I think it's a forgery. That's my opinion.
- [73:43]
Host Mr. Nasty
Okay. I like. I like it. Thank. Thank you for, you know, telling us we're gonna rename the show, but I wanted to ask you just a couple more questions and respect your time, but.
- [73:51]
Jonathan Shelley
Why is it called Death Squad? I'm just curious. Sorry, I don't. I don't, bro.
- [73:55]
Host Mr. Nasty
Like, this is what.
- [73:56]
Jonathan Shelley
Oh, okay.
- [73:57]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
No, there's. There's. Well, I mean, there's very little other reason except for the way that it punches when you.
- [74:02]
Host Mr. Nasty
Sounds cool.
- [74:03]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah.
- [74:03]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah.
- [74:03]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
When we started it, it was just like comedy conspiracy Christianity. We're like, we're gonna learn some and, you know, communicate with some people, you know, uncover different things. This is a banger of a name. And then it just. It's kept engaging it is, but I.
- [74:18]
Host Matthew Hepner
Do have to explain it to normal people a lot. And that is like, that's the idea behind.
- [74:24]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, yeah, we're finding them. I mean it's, it is a little bit of a punch in the teeth when you say people go, what did you just say?
- [74:29]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Exactly. That's the main point.
- [74:31]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah. So it's, it's marketing.
- [74:34]
Host Matthew Hepner
How do you. El Nephilim.
- [74:36]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
N E P H I. Yeah, yeah. Picked a horrifying name to try to find in your.
- [74:40]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yes, it filters out the dumb people in your false doctrines. You pre. You're saying that pre tribulation rapture is also a false doctrine. And this is, this is a fun one for me because I like to see the argument for pre mid and post trib people. And I think there's arguments for all. Like we were talking the other day, there's arguments for all three.
- [74:58]
Host Matthew Hepner
You can prove, you can prove either one.
- [74:59]
Host Mr. Nasty
You can prove whatever you want. All day long argue. But you're like, this one specifically is a false doctrine.
- [75:04]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
And pre, specifically pre.
- [75:06]
Host Mr. Nasty
I don't know if it's false. I do lean towards like, I don't like when people go, I ain't worried about it, God's gonna remove me. And I'm like, did you watch Jesus?
- [75:15]
Host Matthew Hepner
Like wait, so what, so what is their position? It's a, it's a post trip rapture.
- [75:20]
Host Mr. Nasty
I don't know.
- [75:20]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, yeah, so again there's lots of different opinions on this. Right? So you kind of have, you kind of have like amillennialism and then you have pre millennialism. And amillennial means that all the things in the book of Revelation basically aren't going to happen, are symbolic. I reject that. I think that's stupid. Then you have premillennialism. That means that Christ is going to still return and there's going to be a thousand year reign of Christ. The question is when? Right. Of course you have an idea of preterism, which again I reject totally. This, this idea is that all the things Revelation already happened in 70 A.D. i believe that was just some fulfillment, not full fulfillments. And that we're talking about little season theory.
- [76:01]
Host Mr. Nasty
Have you come across that?
- [76:02]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, that's trash. That's stupid. So then you have pre Trib, you have mid trib, you have. What people call. I want to describe a little bit more specifically post trib, post wrath. And those are the positions that I always heard of until I realized there's another alternative use. It's post Trib pre wrath. And that's What I would describe my view as has. So basically my view is that at the, there's a seven year period of time that the Bible's describing is the last week of Daniel's 70th weeks. And in that seven years at the midpoint, the Antichrist is going to declare himself God and he's going to make war with the saints, is what the Bible says in the book of Daniel. So you're going to have this great tribulation. So you have tribulation for the first three and a half years. Then you have a period of great tribulation. Because of studying a lot of Bible prophecy, it's probably about a 75 day period and I could. That takes a while to get there throughout a 75 day period. And then Christ will return. At the point that Christ returns, the church will be raptured with him. And then God pours out his wrath for the remaining portion of that three and a half years. And so if you look at the book of Revelation, you have seven seals. The first five are that period of tribulation. You have the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Basically the fifth seal is the great Tribulation. The sixth seal is the return of Jesus Christ, which is mentioned in Revelation chapter 6. The seventh seal is kind of a combo thing. It's not just one event. It's. It's then a seven vial trumpets and vile judgments that are then poured out on the earth. This is where you get the locust from hell. This is where you get the, the wormwood coming down comet and ruining and poisoning the waters. And you have all kinds of crazy stuff being unleashed on the earth. That's basically how I, you know, the conclusion I've come to. And you have plenty of verses that clearly articulate this. You have Matthew 24, verse 29 says and immediately after the tribulation. So it really specifically says after the tribulation. And then it describes Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with great power and coming in the glory, and the angels coming from one end of the earth to the other, gathering all the elect together. So that's the same in Mark 13, it's the same in Luke. And then if you look in first Thessalonians, chapter number four, the Bible describes our, basically Jesus Christ coming and gathering the elect together. That's the Rapture. Then you have second Thessalonians chapter number two, making it abundantly clear that the coming of our Lord and our gathering together cannot come until two things happen. A great falling away and the man of sin being revealed. As in Second, Thessalonians, chapter two clearly articulates the man of sin being revealed is him going into the holy place, setting up the abomination of desolation, declaring himself to be God, so Christ cannot come before those events happen. Pre tribbers have no verses to base their doctrine on. They have no scripture that teaches anything about pre Trib whatsoever. They just, it's just an arbitrary thing coming from Darby, coming from the Scofield reference Bible, coming from just nonsense. And so they just say, oh we're just randomly raptured out of for no reason. This doesn't even make sense because oh, we were not supposed to go to tribulation. The whole Bible's tribulation. Are you going to tell me that the apostles and the disciples didn't go through tribulation in their life and that Christians haven't been martyred and have to fight through their life? Obviously on a scale there wasn't the same scale of the Bible's describing that's why it's called great Tribulation. Not because the individuals will go through worse persecution individually, but as a whole. Obviously Peter being crucified upside down, obviously John being put in hot boiling oil individually speaking, people are going to go.
- [79:23]
Host Mr. Nasty
Through worse events than that, Jonathan.
- [79:26]
Jonathan Shelley
But you got more people going through those events simultaneously than ever before. And that's what the Bible's actually describing as the greatest tribulation to ever happen happen. So again, it's not mid Trib. That's when the Antichrist declares himself God. It's not pre trib because yeah, we have to go through the tribulation. It's not post trip, post wrath because God's not going to put us through his wrath. So you know, that's the position that I came to several years ago and it finally made sense. I grew up in a pre Trib church. I heard pre Trib rapture preached my whole life and I kind of believed it. And then once I started reading my Bibles seriously and considering other positions, I recognized, oh wow, I've been wrong on this. It's actually after the tribulation like Matthew 24 verse 29 just clearly says so that's kind of my position.
- [80:09]
Host Mr. Nasty
I, I like that position a little bit better than the pre trip stuff because it abdicates the Christian of their, of their duty and their understanding of like suffering. It's like so Jesus came here and like suffered and you think you're gonna get an easy way out. Like we don't have to prepare anything for the future because like It'll stop here and we'll just be good. I don't like that idea. I think that, that, that that ails the society and it's probably a little bit why our society is kind of the way it is now.
- [80:38]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Super easy, right?
- [80:39]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, it's super easy.
- [80:40]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah.
- [80:40]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Everybody else is going to go through this really.
- [80:42]
Host Mr. Nasty
But to be fair, I think that.
- [80:44]
Host Matthew Hepner
There'S pre trib people that tie passages together to make that point, which I'm not pre trip.
- [80:48]
Host Mr. Nasty
I've seen the argument, but I'm. But I'm not.
- [80:50]
Host Matthew Hepner
I don't think it's just as simple as like they don't want to be here for the wrath and don't think that they'll be here.
- [80:54]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
I think sometimes it is, sometimes it is that simple. Sometimes it comes.
- [80:59]
Host Matthew Hepner
Put together a set of scriptures and say because of this, this, this, this and this, Matthew 24, Revelation, Thessalonian Letters, you know, etc, that's why they come to that conclusion. I think there is like debate over it. It's just interesting that. Yeah, I mean so what denomination were you that you were pre trib?
- [81:18]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I grew up non denom. So like just think of the biggest churches in the United States. I was going to one of those. It was Trinity Fellowship church Church. They basically founded and started. Gateway church which is here in DFW is pretty much one of the largest churches in America until Robert Morris, you know, got caught being a pedophile because he's a false prophet. I think the largest church in America right now is life church by Craig Groeschel and like the Oklahoma area. But they have like 60 church plants. Gateway was pretty much competing with them at the top. And Trinity Fellowship had kind of basically started Gateway in a sense. So Trinity is also a very large non denominational church. They have a core coordination of churches called tfac, Trinity Fellowship association of churches. And they basically, if you, if you understand most non denoms all follow these same people. They all have like a small little club and they give them all the same guidelines. That's why they have all the same events, same things. Like they have this thing called at the movies that they're all doing now. Well, they'll literally show Hollywood movies in the summer because no one will come to their churches and they try to like bastardize them into the Bible. It's like you're gonna play Sunday service with a, with a Hollywood movie. And again following Trinity's example.
- [82:26]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah, it's terrible.
- [82:27]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah. On our show, I mean it's called Nephilim Deskwell. But we, we picked up Matt and we've been doing a show called Straight Bible where, you know, I go to church. I go to a Pentecostal church now with, with David.
- [82:39]
Host Matthew Hepner
Don't get this guy started, dude. On what Pentecostal? You're just gonna tell them?
- [82:43]
Host Mr. Nasty
I go.
- [82:44]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
You're just gonna.
- [82:45]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah, tell them about the tongues during worship.
- [82:47]
Host Mr. Nasty
Tongues during worship. No, listen, I'm there.
- [82:49]
Jonathan Shelley
I grew, I grew up in a. Yeah, I grew up in a charismatic non denomination church. Both my parents were Pentecostal.
- [82:57]
Host Mr. Nasty
On his website he says we got to kill them too.
- [83:02]
Jonathan Shelley
I didn't say, I didn't say you have to kill them, but I actually practiced speaking in tongues when I was younger and then I, then I ended up changing my mind and not believing it anymore. So.
- [83:14]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
It's hard, man, it's hard.
- [83:16]
Host Mr. Nasty
It's, it's tough. It's, there's a lot going on. But like I like, I tell people all the times like my kids are there and I see them benefiting tremendously. They're, they're hearing the gospel. We're not getting that deep into theology with what they're doing. So I'm there, I'm helping out, I'm watching, it's fine. But I do, this is what I do as I guess a ministry. We kill, we kill the nephilim, which exists. But on a Matt's show, Straight Bible, like we're always talking about like these, the ins and outs of the 501C3 church and like the pitfalls and is it even supposed to be structured that way? And you did a great job just now talking about this kind of like weird government governmental structure with many tentacles that is doing God knows what ends up business, big business ends up in pedophilia. Sometimes they, I mean a lot of times I think they reach, they reach people with Jesus, but there's a lot of other things that are going on within it. And it's like, I don't know, are, is your church technically, it's not within that system. But how does, how does your church operate within this 501c3 tax free thing? And it's like it becomes a corporation, it becomes a business.
- [84:20]
Jonathan Shelley
Oh yeah.
- [84:21]
Host Mr. Nasty
So in your flock Jesus had 12. You know, it's like, how do we meaningfully.
- [84:27]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, go ahead. I mean here's the thing. When it comes to. I like the name of that show of Straight Bible. You know, if I was 5, 1 C3 is antithetical to the Bible. Like I don't want it like I'll just be honest. Like, I don't, I don't really care about following in any example that just exists. I want it to be matching the Bible. I think that the 501c3 argument is kind of a straw man. I think, you know, initially when I heard about this, I was kind of skeptical. But then actually owning a church and, you know, you being a pastor of one, having to guide it and recognizing what's going on, I don't think it's a big deal personally. Because here's the thing. If you set up a church, if you just go ahead and just create the organizational structure so you can have a bank account and you have a church, you're automatically a 501C3. Like you have. In order to not be 501C3, you have to either a structure yourself very specifically to not be, or you have to essentially be violating one of their five principles. So there's five things that you have to be violating to not be a 501C3. And basically any church that's doing one of those is not really a good church anyway anyways, because it's like you're Giving More than 10% of your donations to a political lobbying group. The pastor is exercising what you know as personal enorment, which means that, you know, any ties and offerings that are coming in, they're just going straight to their bank account as opposed to going to the ministry or the work of the ministry. They have non charitable purposes. And I'm not gonna remember all the top of my head, but it's like you're doing illegal activity like you're funding drug money or like criminal organization stuff. And then maybe the last one is a non sequitur. Again, it's like basically attacking churches for being a 501C3 in my mind is not really, it's not really the problem. Now again, here's the thing. Obviously by saying things and being public and stuff, maybe like someone could quote, threaten your 501c3 and that's why they don't talk about these issues. But I guarantee even if we took that off the table, most of these lame, weak, watered down preachers wouldn't say what needs to be said anyways because they're afraid of their congregation. They're not even afraid of the government. I say anything and everything. Yeah, I say anything and everything. And I'm not afraid of it.
- [86:30]
Host Matthew Hepner
We just call it 501C3 because that's what they all have in common. Like we used to call it the Non denominational church, but to your point, people go, oh. Or we call it the denominational church, but to your point, people will say, oh, we're non denomination. It's like, yeah, but it's all the same thing. It's all this weird, fluffy, you know, announcements, five songs in a speech and just this. I like the song, like Light Little thing where we're not really gonna.
- [86:51]
Host Mr. Nasty
Jonathan, you guys do songs?
- [86:53]
Jonathan Shelley
We do the traditional hymns and songs.
- [86:57]
Host Mr. Nasty
Whatever.
- [86:57]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
No, no original pieces like kill the faggots or.
- [87:01]
Jonathan Shelley
Well, honestly, no, no, we have original pieces. So we. Someone, somebody put together Psalm 139 and it's like, do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee. Do not I hate them that rise up against thee. I hate them with perfect hatred. And sometimes you have visitors come in and we're just all screaming like, all the kids are like, do not I hate them. And they're like kind of looking like, like, what in the world? Because they're used to just songs that are always positive and nice. But it's like straight text, it's straight Bible, you know, Psalm 139 is, do not I hate them. Oh Lord. So, yeah, we. We make our own hymns and we make our own songs. We keep it with that style. I personally don't think there's anything sinful about style of music, but the problem with a lot of contemporary music today is that it's. It's devoid of doctrine. Like, it lyrically, it's just basically just a repetitive, just MK Ultra exercise. And so you're just kind of like sitting here just like, I surrender, I surrender. And you just kind of wonder like, what are you surrendering to? You know, you don't have specific doctrine put in there. You know, our God is an awesome God. Muslims can sing that song. Jews can sing that song. You know, a lot of people can.
- [88:07]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Sing that particular song interpretation, it's not specific enough.
- [88:10]
Jonathan Shelley
Exact. Exactly. Whereas the hymns, when we're singing about it, saying stuff like salvations by faith only, you know, it's singing things about like who Jesus is, that he's the Son of God, you know, To God be the glory is bringing up the Trinity. So like, you can't be anti trinitarian and sing to God be the glory. You can't be a, you know, a Muslim and be singing about how Jesus is the son of God or died on the cross and his blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins. You can't even believe in work, salvation, and believe. A lot of the hymns by Fanny Crosby and other People. So, you know, like, that's what I have a major problem with when it comes to the major contemporary music, is that it's. It's lyrically devoid of doctrine. And then again, like, obviously, some people make arguments about sensuality and all this kind of stuff. I don't really care about that. Like, if someone had a banger of a modern song lyric, like, from a lyric perspective, I'm not gonna hate on them. I'm not gonna be mad at them. I think people like Chris Tomlin, How Great is Our God? It's kind of a more modern song lyrically. It's. It sounds. So I can't get mad at somebody for singing a song like that. That. But most of the Hillsong stuff, most of the Bethel stuff is just, in my opinion, just trash. So, you know, that's. That's kind of where I am on that issue.
- [89:17]
Host Mr. Nasty
It's. It's formulaic. It's. It's done on purpose. We, me and Matt have all the time or argument about, like, well, what is worship? The idea of it. But I like that what you just said, where it's open. Like, they. They've made this. They've made a condition with your four pop chords. And then the lyrics are open. Worship is this thing that everyone is doing, but it's got to be pointed at something. It's got to be very specific. So I'm gonna thank you for, like, putting that idea in my head, because it's something that I'm really filing down and working on. Like, what is this? How do we use it? Does it belong here? Stop making faces.
- [89:54]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Y' all gotta.
- [89:55]
Host Mr. Nasty
You made me curse.
- [89:56]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, people got mad at me because the opening of my show, someone put, like, psalms to, like, hit, like, techno or, like, synth wave music or whatever, and people are losing their mind. They were thinking, like, you can't do that. And I'm like, why? You know? And so obviously, I pissed both sides off, probably in the sense that I want it to be lyrically sound, and then I don't really care. But, like, for our church, we're not going to, like, be having a rave. You know what I mean? Like, if you. If you come to. Our church is about as traditional and conservative as imaginable, because I just want to do what I think is the most honoring to God, and I feel like our style and being more conservative and more traditional, the hymns and psalms is going to be the most honoring to God in that particular setting. The Bible says we have to worship God in spirit and in truth and to me, you know, we don't want to, like, incorporate too much of the flesh and too much of carnality into a worship of a spiritual being. So. Yeah, I can. I get that. But like, in my own personal life and out in the world, like, do I really care about the style of music now? I mean, some people are like, oh, this specific pattern is a satanic, you know, pattern or whatever. I don't really go down those roads. I don't really agree with that. All right.
- [91:04]
Host Mr. Nasty
Did you have. You had something else to say about the church because we. I kind of derailed you.
- [91:09]
Host Matthew Hepner
No, no, I just. Yeah, I think you did. We want to get into, like, the. Sorry, excuse me, Trinity doctrine. Like, you're definitely not into the whole God is one thing, I'm guessing.
- [91:21]
Host Mr. Nasty
Oh, he just said.
- [91:22]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah, no, but do you want to elaborate on that a little bit and, like, why it's.
- [91:25]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I mean, eventually, for salvation, oneness is a big deal. We've had oneness heretics in our churches. We've had to kick out. You know, this is a modalism doctrine. It isn't some Pentecostals, there is what's called oneness, Pentecostals, and they do deny the Trinity. Most Pentecostals still affirm the Trinity. Most Christians do, but even the Catholics, I don't really agree with their view on the Trinity because they. They have this idea of divine simplicity. And I don't. I don't adhere to that. I don't hear even their hypostatic union, which sounds good on the surface, typically when they dive into it, I think that there's probably even problems with that as well. So again, I believe, you know, God is consistent of three persons. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These three have always existed. They're co. Eternal. And, you know, Jesus is deity and God the Father is deity, but they're not each other. The Father is separate from the Son. I believe they interact with each other, love each other, communicate with each other. I do think they have their own minds and wills, but they're in perfect unity with one another. So you're never going to have a disagreement between the Father and the Son, and the Son always submits to the Father and they both share all the divine attributes. But I do believe that there is a distinction between the Father and the Son that goes beyond just name only. I think that they really do love each other. I think they do really interact. And I do believe that Jesus Christ literally created the entire world the Bible describes as the Creator in colossians chapter one. And then he entered into his own creation, which is what we know as the Incarnation. And the Bible says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And he went through a true human experience. He also died, went to hell for three days and three nights, rose again. And that's the climax of the entire story of the universe is the gospel, the deathbed resurrection of Jesus Christ. And that salvation is only satisfied through faith in what Jesus did for us. Not good works, repenting of your sin, turning over a new leaf, but simply just faith in what Jesus did for you as the only payment for your salvation. Most people gain salvation.
- [93:22]
Host Matthew Hepner
Not to go down here, relevant rabbit trail, but so I noticed that he said he went into hell three days and three nights. So do you reject the idea that he died on like a Friday afternoon and rose on a Sunday morning? Where do you, how do you.
- [93:34]
Jonathan Shelley
It's actually Thursday. Yeah, I wrote, I made an entire chart. So he died on Thursday at 3pm approximately in the third hour. And then he was in the grave for three days and three nights, as the text actually says, because Catholics are wrong, they can't count to, to three. And basically he was, he was dead for the Thursday night, or it was actually day. He was part of the day Thursday day and then Thursday night and then Friday day, Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night. And he rose. So you have three days and three nights. If it's Friday, you can't actually get three days and three nights. And Jesus said for his Jonas was three days and three nights in the well's belly. So. So the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. So Jesus Christ actually did die on that Thursday, which also it's important for lots of events because the 10th day of the month they showed the lamb. That's what Jesus Christ had, his triumphal entry. Then you have the, the Last Supper, which is on Wednesday. So Wednesday was the Last Supper. And then Thursday they would have killed all their, their Passover sacrifice lambs. That's when Jesus was killed. And then he was buried. He was in the grave. And then early on the first day of the week, he rose. And so you have Jesus Christ's death, burn, resurrection as being three days, three nights in the heart of the earth. He rose early on the first day of the week. Catholics are wrong on Friday. Timeline. It's good. Thursday.
- [94:51]
Host Mr. Nasty
I got, I got one more question and then I want to respect your time and get you out of here just pertaining to like the post, post millennialism and the little season people. It's a, it's a question that I'm, I've been struggling with. Is there precedent for the Holy Spirit being on the earth at the same time as Jesus? And if that's the case, because it seems like Jesus had to go for the Holy Spirit to come, and then Revelation says that there's a restraint taken away, then all hell breaks loose.
- [95:26]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, just pull up second Thessalonians, chapter number two, because they're totally misinterpreting this, obviously. Yeah, I think that the Holy Spirit can obviously be in multiple places at the same time because he inhabits every, say, believer. The Bible describes everybody that saves being sealed of the Holy Spirit of promise. The Bible also describes him as being the guider of all truth. So every person that's saved has the Holy Spirit inside of them. You know, I liken him a little bit under fire. I think that's what the Bible does as well to help us understand, like, just if I light a fire, like light a lighter and I have fire, you can light a liar wherever you're at and you have fire too. So we can both have fire at the same time. It's like two instances of fire. So I think that the Holy Ghost can be in multiple places at the the same time. I think that it's more about. And again, that's a difficult passage. Like, why does Jesus say, like, I have to go, that I have, and then I can send the comforter and blah, blah, blah. I would have to think harder about that. But I don't think it's because the Holy Spirit and Jesus can't be in the same place at the same time. They're obviously in heaven at the same time. The Bible says, for there are three that bear record in Heaven. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. So they can be. Obviously they can be in the same place at the same time because Jesus Christ is filled with the Spirit. The Holy Spirit descends like a dove upon Jesus Christ and, and comes upon him in a mighty way. And we also have the spirit of God on many people while they're there with Jesus. He breathes on them, the Holy Ghost. So you couldn't say that they can't be there at the same time. That would be just scripturally inaccurate. But second Thessalonians, chapter number two, the passages that people allude to for the preacher of rapture or, or, or other views too, because it's not limited to your preterist view. They'll try to say that the he that is taken out of the the way is the Holy Spirit. This is false. It's obviously the Antichrist. And if we read just a few of those verses, it becomes really clear.
- [97:05]
Host Mr. Nasty
Sure. Where are we starting?
- [97:07]
Jonathan Shelley
Let's go back down. Okay, so it says in verse number six, and you know that or you know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. Again, just for sake of time, the revealing is the revealing of the Son of predition. The the Antichrist being revealed. So we know that he's going to be revealed. Verse 7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work. Only he who now let ith will let until he be taken out of the way. So this is what's crazy. Like the he being revealed in verse 6 is obviously in reference to the Antichrist. Verse 7 is the mystery of a quote iniquity. And then again, it's like only he who will who now let ith will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed. So what the Bible is describing is the Antichrist is a real person. He's going to live and breathe. He's going to conquer the world in three and a half years. He's going to be that horseman riding through and conquering. He's been given a crown to conquer and conquer and he conquers the whole world. He's going to then be in Jerusalem and he's going to receive a deadly mark. That's where the he now leteth will let. So he's going to die. He's going to receive a deadly wound into his eye. So you see a lot of symbolism in Hollywood about this. After three days and three nights, he's going to come back to life physically, but it's also going to be the ant. It's going to be the Antichrist being inhabited by the devil himself. And that's his quote revealing because he's going to then declare himself God. He's going to say, I'm God. He's going to sit in the temple of God declaring himself to be God. He's going to set up the abomination of desolation. And he's going to be saying this before he wasn't saying he's God before. He's just a charismatic leader leading some kind of a Zionist probably propaganda war. He's going to probably just. He's probably going to destroy all of Islam. I think the war is going to be basically Islam. Islam is going to be destroyed in the first three and a half Years. At that point, if you think about it, how would we even have war anymore? There's no war in the Middle East. Islam is gone. Right? But he's going to be killed. And as a result of his death, he rises, declares himself God, and he's basically mocking the things of God. If you think about it, the devil's an imitator, he's not an originator. He's just copying what the Bible says. So he's trying to mock Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection with his little death three day coming back and. And then just saying, hey, I'm God, you got to worship me. He's going to twist passages in Ezekiel that talk about people receiving the mark of their father and their forehead and hand to then declare everybody to receive a mark in their forehand or in their head, which is going to be his, his name, which is 666. And that's where you're gonna have that great tribulation period. There's no mention of the Holy Spirit in Second Thessalonians, chapter number two. It's talking about the man of sin being revealed. It says he's going to be revealed in his time. Then it says, the mystery of iniquity. Then in the next verse, it says, and then that wicked shall be revealed. Inserting the Holy Ghost in that passage is just. It is devoid of all context, makes no sense, has no reality whatsoever. And the Holy Spirit will still be on the earth because it'll be in all the saved Christians that are gonna have to go through this great tribulation period. So.
- [100:03]
Host Mr. Nasty
All right, though, thanks for clear. I was just asking because the people who do think that Jesus already returned and then left, I'm like, well, if there is precedent for one being on what happened here.
- [100:14]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
No, it's just the TV is just adjusting. It's still going.
- [100:17]
Host Mr. Nasty
Can you hear us?
- [100:18]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, yeah, you're good. Okay.
- [100:19]
Host Mr. Nasty
Sorry, our monitor switched off. But if there is president for one being here and the other one not being here, like, they kind of like one on earth at a time. Then I asked them, like, you know, well, where's the Holy Spirit been for the last however long that they think the little season has been operating because I think the Holy Spirit is in operation today. And so. But whatever that argument's thrown out, that's. That's what I was asking to clear up that scripture specifically because it was kind of confusing me.
- [100:46]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, I'd like to know, where's the locust from hell? Where. Where was. Where was this comet that made all the waters, wormwood, you know, bitter. And it's like, it's like this preterist view and all this kind of stuff. They, they really just bastardize revelation and make it just nonsensical because none of that happened. There's nowhere they can point to, why did we go through the Dark ages? Like, where was this, where was the thousand year where Christ was actually ruling and reigning on the earth? Because we understand church history is a.
- [101:13]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Is an inversion and that that was actually an obfuscation, that that was, you know, enlightenment and that history teaches us.
- [101:20]
Host Mr. Nasty
It was the dark clear up. I, yeah, yeah, I, I agree with, with your side of it. Well, with the traditional side of it. We're friends with the guy who wrote the book that's debunking it. But this argument's just been coming up more and more and more. And besides, like, you know, all the mountains being flattened, like, I mean, there's a number of things where you can point to, well, you know, where are you getting this from? I just had that question. I was like, well, if, man, it seems like if the Holy Spirit has to go for the Holy Spirit, I mean, Jesus has to go, and then the Holy Spirit comes, like, does that.
- [101:51]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Does that happen again?
- [101:53]
Host Mr. Nasty
And it's like, because if that's the case, then what's happening today? People are, are being filled with the Holy Spirit constantly. And I'd like to see them argue that. But if that's not the case, it's not the case. We'll let it die. I just had that.
- [102:02]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah.
- [102:03]
Jonathan Shelley
I mean, just, just to throw a stab in the dark. I mean, the Bible, the Bible's describing Jesus Christ after he dies and rises again, that he has to ascend to his father and he has to actually place his blood on the mercy seat. And that's the once for all sacrifice. And, and here's the thing. This, this is how I would articulate it. I, I'd be willing to change my mind. Mind. But the reason why he's making that statement is that you can't enter into a new covenant until there's the death of the testator. The Bible's really clear. And then Moses sprinkled the children of Israel with blood, and that's how they were entered into that first covenant. So it's like, not until the blood has been applied to the mercy seat in the altar in heaven can we like maybe officially enter into this New Testament covenant. And then that's when we can be sealed with the Holy Spirit. Because this is a change from the Old to the New Testament Testament, where the Holy Spirit actually dwells inside of us. And so perhaps that's why he's saying, I have to go, so that then you can now have the comforter. But he's the one that comes back and breathes on the disciples and says, receive ye the Holy Ghost. So, like, how could you say they're not both simultaneously there when he performs that particular action? Yeah, I think it's just a twisting.
- [103:09]
Host Matthew Hepner
Day of Pentecost was a very specific thing that he went back and shed forth that from that gift from the Father. Like, that was a very specific thing.
- [103:17]
Host Mr. Nasty
Okay.
- [103:17]
Host Matthew Hepner
Which doesn't mean they couldn't be in the same place at the same time. It was just a very specific thing.
- [103:21]
Host Mr. Nasty
I'm not just asking a question. Geez, it's. Okay, fine.
- [103:26]
Host Matthew Hepner
You're doing great.
- [103:27]
Host Mr. Nasty
We're allowed to ask questions now.
- [103:29]
Host Matthew Hepner
You're incredibly not nasty to this nice guy.
- [103:32]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
I kind of.
- [103:34]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, actually, honestly, I haven't been nasty at all.
- [103:37]
Host Matthew Hepner
Yeah, I mean, you caught him on one day. Dude, this is actually shocking.
- [103:40]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
I don't have a history.
- [103:41]
Host Mr. Nasty
These guys are. These guys are. Jonathan, thank you for your time, man. Could you tell the people again where they could find you, where they can follow you, your ministry, all the stuff that you're doing?
- [103:50]
Host Matthew Hepner
Dude.
- [103:51]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah. If you want to check our podcast, baptistbias.com. if you want to check our church, sbckjv.com that's our website for Steadfast Baptist Church. Really? If you type in Pastor Shelley, Steadfast Baptist Bias, you're pretty much going to find us. We're going to be the top results. Probably a negative article saying that we hate fags or something, but that's okay.
- [104:12]
Host Mr. Nasty
Well, if you keep calling them that. Yeah. Come on, dude.
- [104:17]
Jonathan Shelley
Yeah, yeah. Obviously, obviously, I'm a band for a reason, so, yeah, at the end of the day, you know, it's. It's difficult to get truth out there. And I appreciate you guys, you know, giving me an opportunity to talk to you guys. You guys have been really friendly, so I appreciate the conversation. Would love to do it again.
- [104:36]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
Well, thank you for your time. Dude, this is. This has been a good episode. I appreciate it.
- [104:40]
Host Mr. Nasty
Yeah, man. Thank you, guys. Thanks for watching. It's been a great week.
- [104:44]
Host David Lee Corbo aka The Raven
We're off.
- [104:44]
Host Mr. Nasty
We're off this week, but that's right, until next time, don't forget to obey, submit and comply. We'll see you later. The pages, they for.
- [105:31]
Jonathan Shelley
When the last trumpet sound.