The Most Dangerous Interview On YouTube w NephilimDeathSquad | NDS on Kingdom in Context

Summary

Nephilim Death Squad Biblical Conspiracy: The Most Dangerous Interview On YouTube w/ Nephilim Death Squad | NDS on Kingdom in Context

Date: February 16, 2026
Podcast: Nephilim Death Squad Biblical Conspiracy
Host: TopLobsta Productions (Guests: Raven, Top, Matt)
Featured Host: Sean (Kingdom in Context)

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together the Nephilim Death Squad (Top, Raven, and Matt) with Sean from Kingdom in Context for what’s described as “the most dangerous interview on YouTube.” The conversation dives deep into the intersection of biblical faith, conspiracy theories, and the rapidly changing cultural and spiritual climate. The hosts share their personal journeys to Christ, debate controversial scriptural interpretations, explore the relationship between spiritual entities and modern conspiracies, and analyze the looming narrative of alien/UFO disclosure as a potential “great deception.”

The discussion stands out for its raw honesty, willingness to critique mainstream Christianity, and candid debate about fringe topics — all through a biblical lens.

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Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Personal Journeys to Faith

[08:14–17:37]

• Each co-host shares his unique (often unorthodox and tumultuous) journey into Christianity.
• Raven: Grew up in church, left after being kicked out, rediscovered faith through personal Bible study and conspiracy research.
  • “This show that we started was supposed to be conspiracy and comedy, and we're Christians... But the more it has developed, the closer in our walk we've gotten that way. And yeah, it's... in a very organic way.” (Raven, 09:47)
• Matt: Grew up Catholic, but first encountered the Bible at 19; went through spiritual searching before surrendering to Christ after recognizing the Bible’s unique truth.
  • “I immediately knew it was the truth. Like, immediately as I'm reading this… And then I was in a major conflict because I wasn't ready to obey.” (Matt, 10:47)
• Top: Raised around supernatural and New Age practices, experienced a demonic encounter at 30 that drove him to call on Christ, which ended the oppression instantly.
  • “I called out to Jesus Christ and the entire phenomenon stopped on a dime. That’s when I decided to finally entertain this thing that in conspiracy is constantly showing itself.” (Top, 15:23)

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2. Comedy, Conspiracies, and Christian Witness

[20:51–32:55]

• The show began as a blend of conspiracy and comedy but organically shifted towards a more serious engagement with Christianity.
• The hosts see themselves as “rough around the edges” but serving a unique audience — conspiracy theorists and spiritual seekers disenchanted with mainstream church culture.
  • “There's a certain type of person that we talk to that I think the church and other folks have a hard time reaching. And those are... people that are not only rough around the edges, but are of a conspiratorial mindset.” (Top, 22:19)

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3. Conspiracy Theories in the Bible

[23:23–31:51]

• Sean presents a litany of biblical “conspiracies”: from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible documents global deception, governmental oppression, and supernatural manipulation.
  • “When people say, oh, you know, Christians shouldn't be obsessed with conspiracy theories, I'm just sitting there going, 'Hey, have you read your Bible?'” (Sean, 23:23)
• The squad discusses how modern conspiracy awareness can create spiritual openness, but also spiritual attack and division — including their own fallout with partners over “leaning too much into Christianity.”

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4. Approaching Extra-Biblical Texts

[34:43–41:24]

• Debate over Enoch, Jubilees, and other non-canonical literature: Is it useful? Is it compatible with the “66 books” of Protestant canon?
• Sean: Argues that Enoch and Jubilees offer theological frameworks consistent with the Bible and were only “left out” for political reasons in 1st-2nd century Judaism.
• Matt is more reserved: "I just think, yeah, we've got our hands full with the 66 books, man."
• On the motives for canon-shaping, Sean summarizes two theories:
  1. Lazy Rabbis: “We’re extremely lazy teachers and we don’t want to go through the details with these people.”
  2. Suppressing Christ: “These books pointed toward fulfillment of prophecy for Christ and Judaism was clamping down because Christ was growing like wildfire.”

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5. Sons of Seth vs. Angels in Genesis 6 and Spiritual Reality

[41:54–46:24]

• Discussion of Augustine’s influence and the "Sons of Seth" theory to explain away a literal reading of “sons of God” mating with human women.
• Raven recounts an interview: “His reasoning was like, ‘Yeah, I just don’t believe that.’ And I was like, all right, cool, we’ll just move on.” (Raven, 44:41)
• Emphasis on the importance for Christians to accept the supernatural reading the Bible gives.

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6. Danger of Conspiratorial Knowledge Without Christ

[54:57–59:42]

• Rising disclosure (UFOs, Epstein files, etc.) is creating an information overload; without Christ as a framework, it can lead to confusion and even spiritual vulnerability.
• Notable Quote:
  “The greater the understanding, the greater the delusion, the more intelligent, the less sane.” (Orwell, cited by Sean, 57:30)
• Top: “The thing that pulled all these conspiratorial elements into a frame that made sense was Jesus Christ.”

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7. Initiation, Occult Symbolism, and Global Ritual

[63:23–69:25]

• Occult ritual initiation concepts in Deuteronomy (Septuagint) and Freemasonry’s use of thresholds.
• Modern mass media and traumatic events (e.g., Super Bowl, 9/11) viewed as mass initiation rituals—symbolically advancing occult agendas.
  • “They hope to do it at scale... they do it through media mostly.” (Top, 68:00)
• The “divine feminine” theme is noted as a recurring motif in both ancient and modern spiritual deceptions.

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8. UAP/UFO Disclosure, Divine Feminine, and the “Great Deception”

[70:49–85:37, deep segment: 80:56–85:37]

• Analysis of disclosure narratives: Anticipating a long-term acclimation, with "good" alien entities ultimately revealed as the ancient gods/demons of old.
  • “They want a whole generation of children grow up with this thing already here... it's the same spherical craft, Vimana, that I believe was the eye of Ra in ancient Egypt.” (Sean, 81:02)
• Deep concern with influential Christian researchers (specifically Timothy Alberino) downplaying the demonic interpretation of UFOs/aliens, possibly aiding the deception.
• Memorable Moment: Recounting their contentious interview with Alberino, who, they allege, dodged definition, sowed confusion, and afterward tried to blacklist them:
  • “He filibusters for 95%... he never gives you an outright answer... after it was over, he denounced us as Christians.” (Top, 107:17)

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9. Firmament, Biblical Cosmology, and the Limits of Space Lies

[85:33–91:13, 133:35–149:51]

• Sean outlines the biblical “firmament” model, including references from Enoch about portals, winds, and the multi-heaven structure — arguing that heliocentric cosmology and the alien narrative are part of the deception.
  • “We’re an enclosed creation... the moment the New Jerusalem comes down, all the satellites would run into the side of the New Jerusalem... the eschatology changes everything.” (Sean, 138:43)

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10. Nephilim, Resurrection, and Overlooked Biblical Themes

[149:51–157:18]

• The importance of understanding the Nephilim narrative as Biblical reality, not just myth or symbolism. Discrepancies in traditional teaching about resurrection, spiritual bodies, and the New Jerusalem.
  • “Without [the Nephilim lens], the worldview becomes thin. With it, it pulls everything together.” (Top, 152:02)

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11. Pastors and Spiritual Ignorance — Why Mainstream Churches Fail

[153:33–168:07]

• Many mainstream pastors and churches avoid or cannot answer hard biblical questions. This leaves spiritual seekers vulnerable to occultism and deception because they find no answers in the church.
• “Why are you in the pulpit?...[Walmart would be a better fit]” (Matt, 154:44)
• The world is full of “practicing Wiccans” and spiritual seekers who are more open to the supernatural than the average church.

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12. Practical Spiritual Warfare & Faith over Fear

[171:43–179:59]

• Real-life examples: Witchcraft, curses, and spiritual attacks confronted by faith, and the critical importance of spiritual discernment.
• “They need us to be able to interact with this physical realm. They operate best when you believe that they are you.” (Top, 177:33)

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13. Final Encouragement and Legacy

[185:13–191:18]

• Sean encourages the NDS team: “The fact that you’re bringing up these topics and pointing people back to the Bible... keep going. Don’t give up.”
• All agree that helping even “one person per conversation” find Christ or truth is worthwhile.
  • “Maybe one person per conversation hears that, and then they got a little question in their head and they go, huh, investigate a little further. That’s the best that I can do… that's as big as it gets.” (Top, 186:16)
• Sean leaves with a research challenge: Look up the incredible, unearthed Labyrinth at Hawara in Egypt, rumored to be integral to future “ancient alien” disclosure narratives.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I called out to Jesus Christ and the entire phenomenon stopped on a dime.” (Top, 15:23)
• “The greater the understanding, the greater the delusion, the more intelligent, the less sane.” (Orwell, cited by Sean, 57:30)
• “You cannot believe angels are symbolic and be quoting from First Enoch. You are in utter contradiction.” (Sean, 120:36)
• “If you're out of your mind, it's for the sake of Christ.” (Sean, 131:21)
• “They want to do disclosure. They want to introduce us to these entities. They want to fool us about their nature. And you're helping that.” (Top, 105:56)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Speaker(s) | Timestamp | |-------|------------|-----------| | Testimonies/Journeys | All | 08:14–17:37 | | Why conspiracy and comedy? | All | 20:51–32:55 | | Conspiracies in Scripture | Sean | 23:23–25:54 | | Handling non-biblical texts | All | 34:43–41:24 | | Genesis 6—Sons of Seth theory | All | 41:54–46:24 | | Deconstruction of conspiracy without Christ | Sean/Top | 54:57–59:42 | | Modern occult initiation at scale | Top | 63:23–68:09 | | Disclosure/Great Deception/UFOs | All | 70:49–85:37 | | Biblical cosmology & firmament | Sean | 85:33–91:13; 133:35–149:51 | | Resurrection and New Jerusalem | Sean | 143:27–149:51 | | Gaps in church teaching | All | 153:33–168:07 | | Practicing spiritual warfare | All | 171:43–179:59 | | Encouragement/legacy | All | 185:13–191:18 |

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Language & Tone

The dynamic is candid, at times irreverent yet sincere, blending dark humor, deep scriptural analysis, skepticism of mainstream narratives (both secular and religious), and a shared commitment to pointing people toward biblical truth. The show is both cautionary and empowering — urging listeners to seek wisdom, spiritual discernment, and readiness for deception, while resting in the assurance of Christ.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a no-holds-barred synthesis of cutting-edge conspiracy theory and serious biblical exegesis. The hosts serve an audience disenfranchised by both mainstream Christianity and the world, employing both humor and hard reality to prepare believers and seekers alike for what they see as an approaching era of unprecedented spiritual deception. Their central appeal: Get grounded in Christ and scripture, maintain discernment, and don’t be afraid to confront evil — because the greatest “conspiracies” are already documented in the Bible itself.

Transcript

[Top]

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[Sean]

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[Top]

Our scouts tell us these city walls.

[Sean]

Harbor Jared and his descendants.

[Top]

We will end this rebellion today. Bring me Jared alive and leave nothing standing.

[Sean]

Hope you guys enjoy that. Guys, go check out Days and no Patreon in the video description below. We're actually for all of our patron members from the the NOAA level and above. We're going to be offering you this complimentary series poster that we've created. Okay? So all of our Patreon members at the no level above you get complimentary as a part of your benefits. The series poster for the series release here in a couple months. And so hopefully you guys will like that. In addition, we're doing a drawing for everyone that is. Let me share my screen real quick. For everyone that's going to be at the who supports the the Days no Patreon page. Put this on screen. And if you support us at the levels. Where'd it go? Where's the memberships? All right, so everyone at the Noah Methuselah Mahalalel levels, you'll be entered into a free drawing for your support for this. We've had a gentleman in our audience handcraft Noah's shield for us. Now, this is a true metallic shield with grips for you to wear. You can terrorize your brothers and sisters at the house. It's a. It's real metal. So we're gonna be giving this away. It's a 500 value. We'll be giving this away as a part of those supporters at those tiers. So go check out our days and on Patreon, help us continue to fund this series in its entirety. And we appreciate you considering that. All right, guys, without further ado, let's bring on our guest today. We have a wonderful panel coming on. We have Top Matt and Raven from Nephilim Death Squad. Welcome, gentlemen.

[Top]

What's going on, brother?

[Sean]

Hey, good to see you guys.

[Raven]

Thank you for having us, man. This is. That was. That was awesome, dude. I'm enjoying. I was enjoying the commercials. Like, watching them. Like, we can get tea. We can watch shows.

[Matt]

The cartoon goes hard.

[Top]

We could get a shield. Honestly, that shield goes hard. That is a really cool shield.

[Raven]

Yes. I'm envying the shield right now.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

I don't know if there's a way maybe we could, like, give more money.

[Top]

I gotta reach out to somebody. It's like somebody in our audience has to make shields. I hadn't considered it before. That is awesome.

[Sean]

Yeah, it's. It's. I wanted to do the giveaway. The sword as well, because I have the sword, but I figure that's probably. I'll probably get sued for that, so. Can't give away the sword, but you.

[Top]

Have to keep some. I mean, if the sword is cool, you got to keep something, right? I mean.

[Raven]

Oh, we did have. We. We branded our audience as dangerous. Our tards. I'm not gonna. But we had a gun holster company that was making these, and after a while, we were kind of like, maybe we shouldn't be.

[Top]

Yeah. Because the implications if you get in trouble and the. And the judge looks at your holster and goes, dangerous. What? I don't know. That's such a good idea. So, yeah, it's a. It's a risky endeavor.

[Sean]

That's wild, guys. So you guys have a channel, Nephilim Death Squad. You guys are on all major podcasts, streaming platforms, as well as rumble and YouTube. Am I missing one?

[Top]

You're also platforms and all that. That. That's pretty much covers it.

[Sean]

Okay. Yeah. So you guys, what I always try to. When I have guests on. I always try to go through some of the basics for the audience to kind of get to know you a little bit. We can start from left to right if you like, what brought you to Christ? And then we'll move on to, I guess, a different question. So, like, what. If you could sum it up in two minutes, like, what. How. What would you say brought you into the. The goodness and the grace of God?

[Raven]

I was kind of, like, brought in, like, pushed in in a way, as a child and fell out, but have rediscovered in the last, I don't know, five years or so. And I think the path that I took is a little. A little strange. Kind of from being, you know, playing guitar in a church to being kicked out of a church, to not wanting anything to do with it, then coming back and. And really re. Exploring the Bible, but what the Bible is actually saying, not what somebody taught me. And as I did that, and I dug deeper and like, from, you know, you look into conspiracies and politics and stuff, and. And after you realize that that's all nonsense, I started to go back into my actual roots, which is the Bible, and then I started to read into that. And there is more in there than I. I was told as a child, and from there I started to rediscover not just my faith in God. I never stopped believing in God, Jesus Christ, and, and those things, but my relationship with God. So as I'm exploring these topics, I'm getting closer to understanding the personality of God or who he is or what he. What he needs me to be. And that's, that's probably been the last two years. This show that we started was supposed to be conspiracy and comedy, and we're, we're Christians, we believe, but it wasn't. It was never supposed to really aim in that direction. But the more it has developed, the closer in our walk we've gotten that way. And yeah, it's, it's. It's in a very organic way it's happened. And I don't. For me as a person, it couldn't have happened any other way because I'm not the kind of person that you can tell what to do and where to go. I've got to really learn this and understand these things myself and like, internalize them. So that's a. I guess the long and short of my walk with God and kind of how I got to where I'm at. But, Matt, I'm interested to hear about. You don't even talk about yourself, dude.

[Matt]

Well, yeah, well, that's another topic for another time.

[Raven]

No.

[Matt]

So I got a Bible. Like, I got a Bible, bro, when I was 19, like, when I was a little kid, we used to go to Catholic church, but if I asked my mom, like, why we went to church, she said, because I said so. Like, there was never, like, any elaborating on it, and there was never any Bible. But I got a Bible when I was 19 and I was like, it was. It was just a wild experience, man. Like, I was literally rushing home from work to read it. And I would be reading it, like, after work, excuse me, until I'd, like, go to bed. And I, I never. Like, I immediately knew it was the truth. Like, like, immediately as, as I'm reading this, I had been reading some other stuff about Buddhism, Hinduism and like, Judaism and just some other stuff because my brother had a world religion book. And I sort of thought I was going to mix them all together. And then I got a Bible and I was like, yo, this doesn't mix with anything. Like, like, this is definitely the truth. And then, and then I was in a major conflict because I wasn't ready to obey. I wasn't ready to submit to Christ, you know what I mean? So. So that went on and my life went out of control for probably another 10 years or eight years or something like that. I don't know. Until I finally just surrendered, man. Until I finally was like, I've had enough, and then went back to the Bible. Just kept reading and reading and reading. And I think a passage that really kind of changed a lot for me or why maybe different from what I hear from other people is just like John 14, I think it's 26 or 23, but just that the Holy Spirit will teach you all things and bring all things to your memory. I think for some reason, surely just the grace of God, I just understood the Bible when I read it, and it was just a matter of, like I said, submitting. And so after that, like eight or ten years of letting God, letting the world just beat me up enough, I finally submitted. That was when I finally came to Christ or started to really walk with them.

[Sean]

Okay, yeah, that's good.

[Top]

So I think don't lie to the people. My childhood was filled with a lot of weird happenings, strange Looking for a.

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[Top]

Spiritual experiences, supernatural experiences. Turns out there's some generational iniquity going on. Or at least as I've come to understand it, my grandmother was involved in, you know, New Age practices and such, and I think her kids and their kids really experienced the rewards of that. We reaped the benefits of that misstep. And so having those experiences when I was little made me once I had access to the Internet, I was fascinated with these stories, supernatural stories, and that kind of led me down this conspiracy route. You know, if you start Googling sleep paralysis and things of that nature, you're going to get to all kinds of demonic kind of answers. And then what that begat was. Is that a word? All of these symbols popping up that you would see in the music industry and in Hollywood, kind of esoteric Hollywood things. And then from there, I was a conspiracy theorist from maybe 16 years old to I would say 30, around 30 years old, I have a demonic encounter. And it's not just me. My wife has the encounter, and then my son, who at the time is maybe four, has the encounter. And it was horrifying. And it was. It lasted a number of days. And I was desperate for it to stop. And I couldn't get answers because.

[Sean]

So this was like a. An oppression, like they were actually coming after you.

[Top]

Well, I saw it. My wife.

[Raven]

Physical manifestation, right?

[Top]

Well, it's hard to say physical because.

[Raven]

Well, spiritual realm, we don't know.

[Top]

Yeah, we don't really know, but yeah, enough that without me telling my wife that this thing was happening to me, she described this entity to me. And without our son being aware that we had seen this thing, he described it. And when that happened, I was in such a state of desperation and had no way of recourse that for the first time in my life, I called out to Jesus Christ and the entire phenomenon stopped on a dime. And when that happened, I decided to finally entertain this thing that if you're in conspiracy, is constantly showing itself. The Bible is constantly showing itself in conspiracy theory. Jesus is constantly showing up as an element within conspiracy theory. But I had never given it its due diligence, because in the west, we've learned to kind of dismiss this. There's a cultural sort of psyop at play that the Christianity is ridiculed and Christ is kind of put on the back burner. And if anything, it looks like maybe Christianity is a control mechanism for the masses or something to that effect. And so I had never really delved down that I was willing to look into all things. If it was Crowley, I would say, well, what's this about? Or if it was, you know, the. The New World order or some. Something like that, any of the cliches, I would look at that. But I'd always put Christ on the back burner. When this phenomenon stopped, I decided not all at once, to be perfectly honest. It did take a year or two, maybe even more than that. Maybe I'm being a little bit too generous to myself before I oriented in that direction and genuinely started to explore the phenomenon. And then I Dedicated a show to, it was called the Ravens Watch. And then I, shortly after that met up with Top and we really began to focus on this thing on Nephilim Death Squad. So so much of what the audience sees is a relatively new walk with Christ in, in, in, you know, my position specifically on the show. I wasn't raised in the church, not religious. You know, if you had to say anything, maybe there was some ages of, or the elements of new age in my upbringing. But as a 30 something year old man, I'm now exploring it with an audience and it's just the, the gift that keeps on giving.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's awesome, brother. So as you guys all three have discussed, I hear elements of my own walk and my own coming to Christ and everything you're talking about Top, you mentioned something about how you're, you're really ex, like learning more of what God wants for you and what he has for you, what he's put inside of you to, to come out with your gifts and talents. I had a guy try to explain that one to me. I was probably 19 or 20 and an older man who was a Christian was trying to share something with me to encourage me and he, he took me to a Bible passage that like you never hear anyone ever preach from and it's Philemon, right? So he took me to the book of Philemon, verse 6. And verse 6 says, I pray that your partnership in the faith may become effective as you fully acknowledge every good thing that is ours in Christ. And the way he tried to explain this to me was that when we, you know, press into Christ and deepen in our discipleship, it's all the good things he's, he's like put into your personality are going to start to blossom and fruit out, right. Versus when you press into the world, all that goodness that God created within you is going to get suppressed. Right. As you get overridden with a calloused heart and with destructive behaviors. And so I just like the fullness of my personality as God created coming out because I walk with Christ. I'd never heard that before, right. And I thought that was amazing. And that's, you know, here I am doing everything that I've wanted to do all my life since coming to Christ. I'm finally doing it at 45 years, almost 46 now. And so that was just encouraging me. I also grew up in church. My father and grandfather were pastors and gave my. But I don't feel like I really gave my heart to Christ until I was 17. And that was in the back of a minivan on i95 in New Jersey. So, like, in New Jersey?

[Matt]

Where.

[Top]

Wait, where in New Jersey?

[Raven]

Oh, God.

[Sean]

Literally. Literally on i95 and on the highway in New Jersey as we were driving.

[Top]

Oh, that's funny.

[Sean]

I didn't have a normal church altar call moment. Like, I had a radical conversion in a minivan on i95.

[Top]

I was not. I mean, you know, and all things considered, where I was at the time was not far from I95 in New Jersey. So maybe. Maybe there's a special line running through New Jersey.

[Raven]

There's a. There's actually a story that I tell that I. I guess I really abbreviated for the.

[Matt]

My.

[Raven]

I don't really give my testimony that much.

[Top]

I'll.

[Raven]

I'll just give bits and pieces as we go, but there was a woman in the church that I went to as I was getting kicked out. Nobody knew. I had a disagreement with the pastor, the whole fallout, but the congregation had no idea. They just see me still up there doing the ministry, and she. She prophesies over me, and she said that you're going to talk to millions of people one day. Great plans. And I told her, like, I said, thanks, but what I said was like, in my. In my mind fu. This, you know, because I had one foot out. I was still there, but I was like, I am leaving, and this place has done me wrong. That's not happening. And every step that I took in a disobedience, it was. It was like a step this way. And it always felt wrong. I was, like, getting slapped down for doing what I was doing incorrectly. But it kept on, like, little by little, degree by degree, pushing me back into the orientation that. Well, now I'm doing. I'm doing exactly what she said.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Raven]

But I. I didn't seek out to do it, if that makes any sense.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Top]

I think our show, Sean, is. Is. I mean, we have a reputation for being rough around the edges, but there's. There's a certain type of person that we talk to that I think the church and other folks have a hard time reaching. And. And those are specifically people that are not only rough around the edges, but are of a conspiratorial mindset, because there's something about a conspiracy theorist that doesn't want to listen to somebody talk who doesn't know what they know. So, you know, maybe, for example, this Epstein file thing, that's. That's big right now. It's like, if you don't know what the. What the Clintons are, you know, what they're doing or what's going on in that island or something, then I don't even want to hear you talk. So a lot of pastors and things of that nature, they're grounded in Christ, they're grounded in scripture. They're not really aware of what the world's doing, which is honestly what we're. We're called to do. Right. We're not called to be in the world, or we're in the world, but not of the world. And, and so that's not really a fault of their own. But I think that you said earlier, God, you know, takes these elements of you that are of your personality, and as you gravitate towards him, these things, they. They rise up, they become tools. We were, you know, he comes from a political background. I come from a kind of crazy conspiracies, you know, maybe even spiritual background. But all of that learning about this, the political corruption and the conspiratorial corruption, allows us to talk to these people who wouldn't otherwise listen if you didn't know something that they know.

[Raven]

We're. We're a specific tool.

[Top]

We're a very unique tool for a very unique group. And, and, and it took a long time. You know, you said that you're experiencing finally being able to do this thing in your 40s. It was the same way for me. I did a podcast, quite unsuccessfully for a long time, for like six or seven years. And they were podcasts on any given topic. I would just talk to people who did something interesting or they were. Or they were comedy rooted to no success whatsoever. And I could feel it. I've achieved nothing except for by the grace of God. Once I oriented towards God, it's like, I'm listening, I'm moving towards you, I'm pursuing you, and then talking about that. And I think going through this walk publicly, everything started coming together. I would never be able to attribute any of my success to my own desires or abilities, because I did it for a long time with zero success. And it was only once I oriented towards God that I found success.

[Sean]

Yeah, well, I want to encourage you both because there is. When people say, oh, you know, Christians shouldn't be obsessed with conspiracy theories, I'm just sitting there going, hey, have you read your Bible? Because let me show you something that's in the Bible. And we should all. We all have access to this information. And this is actually. It's just a Facebook post I did a long time ago, but I go and systematically document, like to all the scriptures, all the conspiracy theories in scripture. So like you literally have people attacking avenue. You have the eugenics, genocide and environmental destruction of Genesis 6. You have the entire world conspiring against the creator in Genesis 11 with the tower of Babel. You have incremental oppression and subjugation by the whole Egyptian government and people against the Israelites in goshen in Exodus 1.

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[Sean]

Sunshine on my Mind. You've got shill support for former oppressive government by internal turmoil, mutiny and number 16. Yeah, with the Rebellion of Korra. You've got weapons ban an oppressive government to fully subjugate the people in 1st Samuel 13 by the Philistines. You've got a genocide plot by government officials in Esther 9. Despise sabotage and imprisonment of oppressive government toward people's champion in judges 16 when they're coming after Samson, political and religious entrapment and false imprisonment in Daniel 6. Like you just go down the list of all these different conspiracies is the 1 Samuel 13.

[Matt]

Is that the one where it says that they stopped making the weapons in Israel and they were made the Philistines were making them even make them when they needed them.

[Sean]

Yeah, they had a complete weapon. Not just a weapons ban but a weapons manufacturing ban. Yeah, that's hard hitting.

[Matt]

That list you got right there. Hits.

[Raven]

This is what we do.

[Matt]

I love that.

[Raven]

Let me. Let me tell you the story showing.

[Sean]

Of of course to end it off real quick. Revelation 12 Satan deceives the whole world like there's an actual. It's stated that he's trying to deceive us all, and he has minions that help him. Like, it's a group effort for them to deceive the whole world. And so. Yeah. I'm sorry, Top. Go ahead.

[Raven]

No, no, it's. Oh. So, as we said, the show and its inception is comedy conspiracy. And we are Christians, so we'll talk about. We'll talk about that as well. But it never leaned into Christianity, and we were doing a lot of comedy, a lot of conspiracy and things like that, doing live events with comedians and people. And the last live event we did about two weeks before fell apart fantastically.

[Top]

Oh, yeah.

[Raven]

Got basically banned by the town for having a certain comedian. The people who were helping us with the show, one of the. One of the people that was like a third part of the organization of the show, he just bailed out, asked his audience not to come because. I don't know, for reasons pretty much unknown, just kind of left. And we were left to pick up the pieces, and we found a new venue. We still pulled off the performance, and we did what we had to do. But in the aftermath, like, you're left with this, like, sort of resentment. This bitterness is like betrayal from so many different places. But you're also left with this feeling of, like, wow, that we still. We still did a thing.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

And through that, we're like, well, we could choose to be, like, really bitter and angry, or we can kind of try to understand what happened here. And from our understanding, this was like a. It was a weird spiritual attack, and we were cleaved with. We were cleaved to people that we're not moving in the same direction. As a matter of fact, maybe a month or so after this whole incident happened, we found out that one of their big problems with us when they were talking to other people behind our back was that they're like, oh, they've been leaning so much into Christianity lately that I don't, like. I don't really know, because we were, like, leading up to it, we were saying, hey, you know, I want to take this more seriously. We've been saying things on the show or behaving, you know, it's comedy.

[Sean]

So we.

[Raven]

We say whatever. We're like, let's. You should clean it up a little bit. Let's make the conscious effort to move in that direction. They didn't like that. And I feel like that was part of this, like, break. But it was such a clean break. That was bizarre. And we were in a town we were talking to the people who owned the town. We were going to rent studio space above a coffee shop that was across the street from an event. The event venue that we were going to perform at. It all falls through in the most fantastic manner within, like, I mean, we were in the place. We were measuring for banners.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Raven]

When we found out that we'd have to either kick out our comedian owned Benjamin or we can't perform there. And I said, well, it's just not how I. That's not how I operate. I didn't even ask the guys, you know, and. And they're, you know, two thirds of the operation. I said, okay, thank you. And in my head, I'm like, we're getting a new venue. Either this guy has to go, or we're getting a new venue. Because I'm not gonna cancel somebody. That's not what. That's not what we do. Not in my. Not in my kingdom. We don't do that here.

[Sean]

And why would you want to cancel, Owen? It's gonna be a great time.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

Because everybody else does. And it's just, you know, it's just disgusting behavior from people. But that happens.

[Sean]

Clearly, they've never listened to him because that's just going to make them mock them even more.

[Raven]

Which he did.

[Top]

Which we.

[Sean]

Yeah, exactly.

[Top]

What happened? We all got on stage and did that. And it was. It was kind of a.

[Raven]

It was our. It was our, like, I don't know, finale of. Of this, like, ruckus comedy. But anyway, this falls through the studio on top of the coffee shop. That's gone. Because I'm not doing any business in this town anymore. It turns out the entire town goes up to the mayor one day, I walk into another coffee shop, and I go, coffee's pretty good here. Come back. The next time I'm wearing. It's all right. It's fine. Wearing my Nephilim Death Squad T shirt because I, you know, I print and distribute T shirts. So he goes, Matt goes, what do you know about the Nephilim? And we start having a conversation. Next thing you know.

[Matt]

I didn't say it like that.

[Top]

That's exactly why I said, bro, you.

[Matt]

Know what a Nephilim is?

[Raven]

You have a real nasty.

[Top]

Yeah, but you did the face.

[Raven]

So we started having a conversation. I realized. I said, this guy has a story to tell. I interviewed him on the show. I was like, oh, he's. He's great on the mic as well. I in. I invited him to do some Bible studies with us. And it reminded me as you're pulling up those passages. We were reading the book of Daniel, and one of the special things about the Bible studies that we do with Matt on the show is we're reading the Bible and you're looking at these circumstances of old. And I'm trying to imagine all the parts that the Bible doesn't, like, extrapolate on. So Daniel's in Babylon and he's in the political class for a really long time. I'm like, yeah, they went through their Epstein stuff. They went through their, you know, stolen elections or whatever was going on in Babylon. There's a lot going on here. A lot of politics back and forth. And then these things are happening that he's writing about, which are world changing and very important. But it's just. It's a fascinating look at the Bible because it's a history book. There are things happening. It's a supernatural book. And Matt has been able to. I mean, we opened up a studio in his coffee shop, but he's been able to, like, kind of hold us by the hand as like, two dumb kids who don't. Who are still like, you know, we're kind of like, Ed Mabry did that as well.

[Top]

We just have a lot of bad behavior.

[Matt]

I know we're a lot further down the road, dude. I hear the stories people tell me.

[Raven]

Like the OG fans, they tell me old stories.

[Matt]

I'm like, wow, Ed was with you guys through all that to bring you, like, so far down the road. So I got into it a lot later.

[Top]

You guys were already as much though, as. As like, you kind of say, like, it was. Yeah, sure. It was a conscious decision to try to be a better ambassador of. Of Christ, you know, to be a better representation of Christianity. It kind of was less that and more, in my opinion, that if you earnestly seek God and you. And you communicate with him and you ask, he works in your life. And like, the way that I've described it is like things that I thought were going to be painful to let go of. They don't come off at once. Yeah. And they kind of fall off as you start moving.

[Raven]

It was super painful when we're like, we have set up and just kicking against the pricks the entire time. We're like, we're setting up a studio here in this place, and it's great because it's above a coffee shop and we can, you know, have our guests come in, have a coffee, go upstairs and interview them. And it's like this. It just seemed like the thing I was like, yeah, this is the way.

[Top]

Right.

[Raven]

This is how. How we're supposed to do it. And then God was like, no. And then I walked into here. Yeah. Close, but no. Yeah, it's actually. You're going to open up a studio inside of a coffee shop, and the owner is going to ask you to do it, and it's going to move forward in this weird community way. And I was just like, that's cool. The hell new. Yeah, it's insane. It's actually. It's actually insane because it doesn't make any sense what's happening.

[Top]

Yeah. So now after that, we're. Not only do we have this live thing where audience members will come and see us, but Matt now does a show on our. On our channel called Straight Bible, which is like, we wanted to add something to what we do, and I'm glad that we. We added that. I. I do want to give some flowers to Matt. He has an unbelievable ability to help people like me, which maybe are the illiterate, understand scripture in a way where I wasn't able to before.

[Sean]

That's cool. So is Straight Bible the full name, or is it. Is it short for Straight Bible? No chaser.

[Top]

It's Straight Bible. Straight Bible is the full name. It's. It's on our channel, and the audience loves it. I mean, like I said, we're taking conspiracy theorists in who are Bible curious. A lot of people are already there, but this is, you know, to. To be able to give that back. Like, okay, God has helped us build this thing. Without God, we wouldn't be able to build this thing. Now we get to share his word with people. I couldn't do it. I have a specific skill set. I don't know if Top could have done it, but he wasn't. You know, it was like, when we found Matt, he. He filled a need in a. In a really huge way.

[Raven]

And also we. We sort of filled a need. He's been doing Straight Bible in his bed in your bedroom. Right. By yourself.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

He doesn't understand cameras and microphones.

[Matt]

Well, yeah, and little Bible studies and stuff and.

[Top]

Yeah, but now he wants to talk to thousands of people.

[Matt]

Yeah. No, that was cool.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Because so for, like, a long time, I've gotten up early to study Scripture and specifically to read from, like, Genesis to Revelation. And then once you finish Revelation, go back to Genesis and read through to Revelation and just continue doing that. And then that's just been this really rad time to be alone with God. Right. And then all of a sudden, there's this outlet for. For all that to go somewhere. But then it's just a whole new time period now. It's just like me and the Lord used to have a lot of time alone with, like, no agenda. It was just, we're talking about whatever we. We want to talk about. And then now it's more specific. Like, we're doing episodes now on. We're doing a series on the Sermon on the Mount. So it's like, it's not necessarily like first thing in the morning. I'm like, hey, Lord, it's just me and you. We're talking about anything. We want it now. It's kind of shifted a little bit more to like, all right, I'm working through this series on Sermon on the Mount, which it just is what it is. I just think there's different phases in life, you know.

[Raven]

Yeah.

[Top]

So how do you guys.

[Sean]

Between. Yeah, that sounds like a wonderful, you know, divinely appointed little setup that, that God put you guys together. So what. How do you guys handle, in your studies and your shows, the concept of, you know, like what's generally called pseudo pigraphy? Deuterocanonical books. Like the. The books that. I know we have a. The Western tradition is 66 books, but a lot of times I hear you guys talking about content from books outside of those 66. Matt, are you okay with that? Do you. Is that part of your studies as well? How do you guys as a three.

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[Matt]

Personally, it's not.

[Raven]

I mean, I'd say kicking and screaming, but. No, go ahead.

[Matt]

No, I'm just Saying it's not really my jam. It's not really my specialty. I've read Enoch. It's interesting. But I just think that, like, yeah, we've got our hands full with the 66 books, man. Like, there's so much content there. I'm intrigued in any kind of books that elaborate. I mean, I guess I've read Jasher and, you know, a handful of other things, which Asher is wild. I'm like, was this just like a comic book of that day? Like, this is the wildest book.

[Sean]

It is a wild book, right? I studied it for many years because I was kind of intrigued in a, in a, like, you know, you know, razor eyebrow, like the rock kind of intrigued, you know, like, like, wait a minute, what's going on here? They're running on top of cornstalks. You've got, you know, Aug is as big. So big that he can pick up a rock that can destroy all 12, all 2 million Israelites at one time. Like, what's going on here? It just. And there were some dates and names and places that I wasn't seeing line up with Genesis. And so I did some furthering research. And I don't know if you guys have ever seen any of our previous content on our channel, but for years, me and some other buddies, we do a show called Honor of Kings and we investigate the manuscript chain of custody history as well as the theological claims from these pseudo pickerful books. And our, our investigation of Jasher kind of got the thumbs down because really, it looks to be tracing back just to a Talmudic rabbinic literature from the 2nd century AD with no earlier manuscript chain of custody before that. And there's so many theological contradictions with the actual king of 66. You know, we, we're not like an official council or nothing, but like, we don't, we don't grave any credence to the old school councils anyway because those are just a bunch of men that got together as well. So. But we, we ended up giving it the thumbs down because we were like, man, it's just so many things that don't line up in here. It's weird. It's making fallacious claims, it's making sensational claims that seem to be even more sensational than you read in the Book of Enoch. And you're like, why? What other Christian communities throughout time ever included this? And you find out none of them ever did. And then you're like, oh, this is interesting. But, but things like Enoch and Jubilees and the testamental patriarchs There is an interesting history with those three. And all three of those works of literature, like thematically and theologically, all are congruent with the 66 and with each other. And so that's what we, we do pull from those a lot on our videos and our studies of the Nephilim and the, the watchers that rebelled and you know, some of the concepts that we feel give us, give us extra details. So for example, like if I was back in the days, you know, if I was like in the first century ad, I would be asking questions like, why is Jude quoting from first Enoch chapter one?

[Top]

Right.

[Sean]

What's the deal here? Right? And I've had people come back to me and say, well, well, Paul quoted from Greek sex poets. You can't just say, you can't just take everything they quote from. I'm like, no, no, Jude is actually teaching theology by quoting this. He's actually teaching about the second coming of Christ by quoting this. Right? Which, which Christ is all through the book of Enoch. So it's, it's a fascinating concept. Then I found out around the first, the end of the first century A.D. into the turn of the second century, there was a specific rabbi named Rabbi Akiva and he was the one that decided to quote, unquote, close the Jewish canon. And what he did was he took books like Enoch and Jubilees and he didn't call them heretical or he didn't even call them pseudo pigraphy. He just said these are sacred writings but I don't want the average person reading them, so we're going to leave them out of the canon. And they, and he referred to them as what's called the left out books or the outside books. So there's an interesting modern day scholar, her name is, she's like the head of the Hebrew University in Israel today. Her name is. I'm going blank on her name. My, my, my audience knows, guys, put it in the live chat. What's this? Dr. Uh, gosh, I'm going blank on her name, but she does, she did a whole speech like this very controversial speech from her position as emeritus of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the professor emeritus of the Dead Sea Scrolls and research into this, this time period, the concept of this Hebrew history and the Hebrew literature. And in her speech, this was like in 2016, I believe, she basically said to all, Rachel Eliar, thank you, symbol of peace. Thank you brother Rachel Elliot. Dr. Rachel Eliar. She said basically like there was a very unique shift in early Judaism in 1st century to 2nd century AD to where they started leaving out books like Enoch Jubilees in the Testament of the Patriarchs, and that's why Christian communities still put them in some of their canons. But yet the Jewish canon closed off and didn't keep them because of this rabbinic decision.

[Top]

So like Enoch rabbinic decision would have been like, why? I mean, because it sounds awfully nefarious, right? We're going to keep the average person from having access to that. What was the the conventional explanation for that?

[Sean]

The idea the this, the commonly stated accusation was that the average person is not wise enough to read these. Oh, it's going to cause too much problems with understanding and it's too difficult to explain it and all that. It's basically them saying we're extremely lazy teachers and we don't want to go through the details with these people.

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[Sean]

The more nefarious suspicion of it from scholars is that these books pointed towards fulfillment of prophecy for Christ and Judaism was clamping down because Christ was growing like wildfire and all in Disciples of Christ was growing like wildfire and they were trying to clamp down. This is why during that same time they made a final decree to kick all Christians out of the synagogues as well. And so but going then starting from that point forward into Christian history, you start to see like the Ethiopian church did included I can Jubilees and then the Armenian church later included the testament 12 patriarchs, which also talks about the days of Enoch and giants and rebellious angels and taking women and wives and all that kind of stuff. And so it's Fascinating to me because 4th century A.D. here comes this, this guy named Augustine, which I'm, you know, I'm. I'm the least fan of Augustine, like, of all the church fathers. I think he was a problem. I think he should have been taken out bat and beak with lashes. That dude should have been, like, removed from the public discourse. He just caused a whole bunch of theological issues. And he's the one who started this narrative that you hear from some churches about the sons of Seth. He's the one who started this narrative because he, he did not like a literal spiritual interaction of spiritual beings with the earth because he came from a previous. This Manichean background, which is a Gnostic philosophy background. Gnostic philosophy doesn't believe the spiritual world can interact with the physical world. And so he didn't like what Genesis 6 was saying. Very clearly saying. He didn't like the idea that Job wanted to identify the Bana Elohim as the sons of God and not sons of Seth or not. None of that. So he creates this other narrative to reinterpret it in the same way he tried to reinterpret the story of Adam and Eve. And he said that was just allegory that wasn't literal, completely ignoring the genealogical record of Genesis 5, Genesis 11, and Matthew, you know, so like, so he had some issues. You know, I do a deep dive study on my channel with the church fathers and stuff, and he had some issues. But that picked up over time. And now you see it most prominently taught from the Southern Baptist association and the Southern Baptist Seminaries, the Sons of Seth theory.

[Raven]

And then we actually, we interviewed a Baptist pastor. And yeah, it was a. The crux of the argument or the interview was basically Sons of Seth versus Elohim. And he just had base. His reasoning was like, yeah, I just don't believe that that was it.

[Top]

It was just. I disagree.

[Raven]

I was like, well, look at the translation here. Look at Psalm 81. Look at this, look at this. And he's just like, yeah, I disagree. And I was like, all right, cool, we'll just move on.

[Top]

He's mostly concerned about gay people not being able to be redeemed. That was his.

[Raven]

Yeah, that was his whole back. I actually have a question for you. We recently came across some of Josephus's writing, and he was writing around, I don't know, like what, like 70 AD or something like that, Right around the time when the book of Jude should have been penned as well.

[Sean]

Did you say Josephus?

[Raven]

Josephus.

[Sean]

Okay, yeah, because he was a, like 130 to 150 historian, second century.

[Raven]

Okay, so. And the book of Jude should have been written around 80.

[Top]

Right.

[Sean]

So I'd have to look it up, but I think so. Okay.

[Raven]

Similar.

[Sean]

It's not, it's not one of the earlier ones. It was one of the later ones.

[Raven]

Yeah, right, right. They use the same phrase for. In Jude 10 when they're talking about brute beasts that they, they know naturally as brute beasts and those things, they corrupt themselves. But when Josephus uses brute beast, he's talking about like animal, human hybrids kind of stuff. And it just leads me to wonder. I don't know much about Josephus or the veracity of his writings, but people claim that he has some of the best historical context of the things that happened within the New Testament because he's writing.

[Matt]

We've got them in the J section here. I don't, I don't read much of Josephus. I read a little bit, but we've got them in the J section.

[Raven]

I forget which, which book it was.

[Matt]

It's got a main book.

[Raven]

Do you know anything about this, though?

[Sean]

I've heard interpretations from Revelation along that line where they take the first and second beast and they try to say. Well, references to the first beast implies within the Greek and implies some sort of hybrid, some sort of mixture creature. Versus so like in the Book of Enoch, the, the usage of the word beast is for a person who's lawless, basically someone who's rejected God and is living lawlessly. And then the, the concept of a person like in the allegory in first Enoch, the allegory of all the animals, it's like the original animal, Animal Farm. George Orwell, you absolute plagiarist. He basically like. He basically. It's like the, the animals become men once they trust God and start walking with God in this allegory in, in Enoch, whereas the beasts who reject God, they're considered beasts who are lawless. And so some people will take that for like a Daniel translation when it talks about a man of lawlessness or the lawless. And then the second Thessalonians and then I've heard other people try to infer that it's a different Greek word used in Revelation for the first beast to imply some sort of hybrid. So I just, I've just never found definitive like studies to prove one way or the other.

[Raven]

Yeah, because this, we. We on street Bible, we did a. Well, a read through the. Not a read through a pretty thorough dissecting of the book of Jude and that one verse 10 always stood out to me. I'm like, that's not. It doesn't sit right. Like the, the vocabulary in it never sat right with me. Like I, I've always looked back at it and said, what do you, what do you mean by that? And what exactly? Because this book is loaded.

[Sean]

Yeah, it is. Like, especially. How'd you guys. Would you guys handle. Or how'd you. How did you handle. How'd you come to a conclusion on when Jude mentions Satan and Satan and Michael arguing over the body of Moses, which is from the Testament of Moses?

[Raven]

Testament, I have no idea. This is the verse before it.

[Sean]

So.

[Raven]

Yeah, what is that about?

[Sean]

Right?

[Matt]

I don't know. I never read it in the Testament of Moses. I've just seen references to it. I've never read the Testament of Moses, but it was just like, I don't, I don't know. It's. It like. The more intriguing thing is like, why did they argue over it? Does it, does the Testament of Moses get into that?

[Sean]

Sean, it supposedly has the story that it doesn't say the why, but just. It just is the reference that Jude gives if they were arguing over the body. Now I could just, in my own imagination, come up with a ton of reasons why Satan would want that body and want to fool people, you know, claim he resurrected or build an image to his likeness and have people worship it. You know, as if modern day Judaism doesn't already worship Moses. But, but, but the point is, like, I can imagine a ton of reasons why I would, but it just doesn't definitively say. Yeah, because ultimately he's not. I don't think Moses is ever described as any kind of special genealogy of any kind. He's not like, you know, he's not like a Nephilim. He's not like a, you know, a rebellious angel or nothing like that. So. But it's interesting because the Testament of Moses, you're like, well, that's not in anybody's canon throughout history. What's going on with that? You know what I mean?

[Raven]

So you make him statues of Moses. Sorry to interrupt. Like the Southern statues. He has horns on his head. And I don't know what that's about either.

[Sean]

Are those like in the Middle East?

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

For first of all, I would say that anyone that's making an idol to Moses hasn't read the Bible and they're just clearly adopting their bad mentality and trying to honor Moses. Right. But secondly, the horn concept that they would put on certain statues was to signify rulership. So this Is why, like, you know, you. This is why in my opinion Daniel is making such a do about the little horn that's being referenced. Because he's the one who actually is the most important to look at, even though he's got a little horn, because he is a ruler who others. Who's. Who's taking over other kingdoms and nations. So. Sorry, go ahead.

[Matt]

I was just gonna say, but that concept of, you know, worshiping like something good, like we already have that. You know, the serpent made a brass that Moses put on a pole. Like we have that story where he did that and anyone who looked upon it would be saved. And then you get into like it must be 1 Kings or 2 Kings or 1 or 2 Chronicles somewhere in there that they were worshiping it now that Israel was worshiping that actual pole. And then was it Hezekiah that said called it Nehushistan? I think it is something like that. He said, yo, this is just a thing of brass. This is just a thing. And then he destroyed it. But so like you could see where. Yeah, they had the actual body of Moses, you know?

[Top]

Yeah.

[Matt]

Who knows what they would have did with it.

[Top]

Well, it's like they supposedly have the, the severed or the skull of. Of Mary Magdalene or the body of Nimrod somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean there's a bunch of these things that. Yeah, they make.

[Sean]

Supposedly they got John the Baptist's was his foot or his hand. Yeah.

[Top]

It's in a museum and they worship it.

[Raven]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

You mean like pickled pigs feet in the hood.

[Top]

Have you ever seen like a foot?

[Matt]

That's right.

[Sean]

Quarter, quarter for view. This is old school carnival.

[Matt]

Oh no.

[Top]

Yeah. And then they're. They're worshiping it. Let me see if I could find this Mary Magdalene skull. You've never seen this image, Matt?

[Sean]

Well, I mean, guys, this is, this, this is like mankind. This is what the unclean spirits influence mankind to. To behave as. I mean, we've got dudes bringing to a wall in Israel and you've got. You've got Muslims walking circles around a box and playing to pray into a black stone.

[Top]

Right.

[Sean]

Did you guys know, by the way, stone has a history.

[Top]

By the way, what's the history of it? Is it supposedly that it fell from the sky? No.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. So not only do we have a first mention of an X19, but there was a Roman emperor in the 3rd century A.D. his name was El Gabala and he was from Syria and he actually came, became the Roman emperor and tried to force out Zeus or Jupiter worship and replace it with the Syrian sun God, whom Elagabala was the guy's name who became emperor. And he was the high priest to the God Elagabalas, the Syrian sun God. And when he took over the Roman Empire, he tried to force out Jupiter worship and replace it with his God. Right, because he was the high priest who was God. And it caused a huge stir and he ended up dying shortly because people turned on him. But the point is, he had a parade for the four years he was emperor. Every summer he had a parade with the black stone on a cart that he carried through the city and, and that worshiped the black stone. And he brought that. There was a temple to that black stone in Syria, which, which was in Arab settlements. Anyway, there's a whole history there. There's a whole history of that stupid black stone. And this is where people literally are worshiping rocks. Like this is what the unclean spirits will cause you to devolve into. It's absolute profund stupidity. You know, where you're worshiping a rock.

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[Top]

It's a weird time because right now you have Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes, right? They're like these big kind of characters that aren't necessarily in our space, like this kind. I mean they're, they're within Catholicism, they're not in conspiracy, but they've been going in that direction lately. And you know, not only has Candace Owens been kind of introducing people to the idea of like astral projection and, and reptilians, time travel, etc, which I, I'm curious. More so less about those topics and more so about the audience that that's reaching now, who wasn't really getting that before? And I saw Nick Fuentes talking about, you know, the rock and, and how. Well, the, you know, the, the Muslims were taught by Satan that this is a representation of the black cube of Saturn. That's, that like, hey, he goes, how did the, how did the Muslims know that there was a hexagonal storm on Saturn's north pole? And he goes, because Satan told him. And look, I mean, if you want to hash out the details of it, that's one thing. It's more fascinating to me the, the audience that this information is reaching. It feels like we're in this time.

[Raven]

Where it's knowledge that's.

[Top]

It's a cult knowledge. Yeah. And it's reaching an audience that previously was entirely unaware of this. They're glomming onto these characters because they're compelling political characters. So the bar for entry is super low. You get in there to have this, you know, political point of view, and all of a sudden they're serving you up this esoteric knowledge. And, you know, everything is just in such flux right now with you have UAP disclosure whether or not that's going to happen. And, and you know, these Epstein files, it's like all at once. If you want to use, you could use the analogy of a veil getting pulled back. And I don't know if that's such a great thing because I think the vast majority of people are unequipped to understand these things. And I'm not saying that I understand them. I'm just saying there is a real danger with misunderstanding these things or leaning on your own understanding and coming to the wrong conclusions on these matters.

[Raven]

That was, I guess that's a bit of our crux of argument with Alvarino at the time. Yeah, it wasn't so much about any of the points he's bringing forward, but more about why are you not constantly leaning back or the whistleblowers that you're talking to, they're not approaching this research through the lens of Jesus Christ. And, you know, the answers that we got back from him were, I, I'd say largely unsatisfactory, but I don't even know. I don't want to control your show and like, steer it in a weird direction.

[Sean]

No, no, but I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I heard Candace talking about how she was relaying a conversation she had with Charlie about how they both astral projected and didn't know what it was and that kind of stuff. And, and I'm, and I'm sitting there Going like, why isn't whoever. Because I believe Candace has become Catholic. So like, whoever is her bishop needs to sit down with her and start to explain to her, hey, you know, if this is something you did experience previous in your life, this is not something we want to promote now. Right. Because this is definitely not, not something we want to be teaching Christians that it should be normal, be thought of as normal. So yeah, I think that there's, I just don't know how, how involved when people say they become Catholic. I don't know how involved they are with their bishops or priests or whatever for counseling, guidance. You know, I don't know their structure. But I think it's interesting about the overload of information that you're talking about, especially like with the Epstein files. It reminds me of, of a quote from George Orwell's 1984, by the way. I know it's not scripture, but I love that book because I, it was like one of the first books I read as a kid that really impacted me. But there's a quote he says in here when he's trying to like dissect and explain the, the, the overflow of knowledge leading to less sanity.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And he says in, and the quote is in general, the greater the understanding, the greater the delusion, the more intelligent, the less sane. And so this is, yeah, this is a concept where they're like, oh, you want, you want to know what all the elites are doing. You don't know what the, the ways of the world. You don't know the behind the scenes mechanisms that drive reality. Here's all of it. You're not going to understand 10 of it. Here's all of it, in fact, as you grasp to understand, because we're not going to give you the context, we're not going to give you the connecting details that make it make sense. And so as you grasp for understanding with all this overload of info, you're going to sound crazy. Yeah. And meanwhile they just push their own narrative.

[Top]

Well, that's the thing that I'm, I'm worried.

[Sean]

So.

[Top]

You know that great context that you're talking about, that great connective tissue for me was Jesus Christ. It was the thing that pulled all of these conspiratorial elements into a frame that, that made a lot more sense. And I wonder for all these people who aren't grounded in Christ now there's one form of, let's say, following Christ where you lack still the framework to incorporate this into it. And then it throws your faith into flux and that's something that I'm concerned about during this time. The new age points to this time where there's going to be a consolidation of religions, a falling away from Christianity and the multitudes of religion, and then an adherence to one conglomerate of religion that's typically under some sort of, what, alien presence or something. And I think it's fascinating that we're on the. On the cusp of that right now.

[Raven]

I also think it's fascinating that 1948 was written. Well, it's written between 1945, released in 1948. Bulk of the work done in 191948 and 1947-1950 is a really interesting time period for America when we're talking about all of these things. Yeah, the conspiracy writ large, everything in the Epstein files was kind of developed. And I mean, from our knowledge from 1947 on, that's when scrolls is that time period is implementation of Israel. You name it, whatever the, the Truman Doctrine, everything happened at that time.

[Top]

CIA starts right after that. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a weird, It's a weird time. But the other thing that concerns me, you know, obviously. Right. Like you said, with more information. It's, it's. It's not exactly wisdom and understanding that comes with it. It's, it's. It's more confusion, typically. And I think if you're going through this whole conspiracy avenue, as I have for a long time, if you're not constantly allowing yourself to admit that you don't know anything, because every time something is revealed to you, it's only a revelation of how much you didn't understand previously. Therefore, you're probably in a constant state of not understanding the whole picture. If you can stay grounded in that and not lean on your own intellect and not imagine that you know beyond what the average person does, then you might be able to have some sanity through this. If not, if you begin to believe that your own intellect can carry you to the finish line, I do really believe that that's what leads to madness. But what happens when you have a revelation that not only causes confusion, but it causes this spiritual negativity to fall upon you? In other words, we're showing to you the horrors of mankind, which, by the way, is that's the world. Right. And it's always been that way. You go through the Bible. They've always been worshiping fallen gods. They've always been sacrificing, you know, humans, children. There's been slavery and all these horrific things that have taken place. The world is in A constant state of that. And so all that's happening now is it'll be revealed to you that that is still the case. But these things are going to. What they're going to evoke. We were just talking about this with Ed Mabry on the last episode we did right before we came here. Sadness, fear, anger, rage. Right. And these things are. This is what, demonic entities, things that are in the spiritual realm that are in opposition to God. They want you to be in this state. If you're not grounded in Christ in a real meaningful way and you're going through this, the, the information overload creates that madness and the, the, the spiritual heaviness of all this. I mean, I don't think that people say they want the Epstein files, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't know the truth, but I'm just saying if you're not grounded in Christ and if you've not been aware of this for some time. I was blessed to have come upon these, these elements when there wasn't like a real sense of urgency. I would not want to find it all out at once. I don't think that.

[Sean]

Well, even in the occult, they, that's why they have, you know, the, the degrees. Right? The degrees of knowledge that they teach. And then within their initiation ritual, you, you learn by degree because they know the average initiate can't handle all of it. By the way, guys, did you know. I don't know how often you guys delve into the Septuagint translation, but there's actually, in Deuteronomy 23:17, in the Septuagint, it actually mentions initiates, which I thought was fascinating. So it basically just. It, like the mesoretic text, which is the most predominant text most, most, most of us read in English, it, It says, you know, do not let your sons or daughters become prostitutes and do not let your men be. What does it say? I think they don't know that the sons of Israelites. Yeah, let me just go ahead and read it real quick. But it's, it's fascinating because it completely leaves this part out, but you have to read the Septuagint to see. It's in doomery 23, verse 17. And, and I do believe it's talking about the secret initiation cults. So it says in the Masoretic, no, no daughter or son of Israel is to be a shrine prostitute. And that's all it says, just that one line. But if you look at the Masoretic, it says. It says, there shall not be a harlot of the daughters of Israel. And there shall not be a fornicator of the sons of Israel. And there shall not be an idolatrous of the daughters of Israel. And they're not. And there shall not be an initiated person of the sons of Israel.

[Top]

Initiated person.

[Raven]

Well, what do we learn from Jamie Dyer about. About the. The females in. In these temples, in these pagan temples, they're like prostitutes, but they're also almost like priests. There's like a weird overlapping.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

Of idols here. And then you just said fornication as well, which is a word that I was trying to explain to Matt poorly that fornication doesn't. Doesn't necessarily mean sex outside of marriage. It's speaking of a spiritual sexual sin, which is. I mean, read the Epstein files. It seems like what they. What the elite.

[Sean]

It was a part of the. I'm going to address what you're saying, plus the question in the comments here. It's a part of the. The ancient idol ritual worship, which was. It wasn't just simply they brought a vow. Offering of grain or a lamb or something. They did those two. But then after they gave their offering to that God, they engaged in libations and usually drug use and then some sort of sexual activity, whether it was with the male or female prostitute, whether it was an orgy in the back room, or whether it was eating or drinking children's blood or sacrificing their own child for. For prosperity. So, like, it was. The whole thing was nasty. But many of them, they had a. A ritual called leaping over the threshold. And you see this mentioned in. I think it's. I want to say it's in either First Kings or. Or First Chronicles, but there's a. Or maybe it's Isaiah. I can't remember the exact address right now, but there's a. There's an ancient concept about leaping over the threshold. And that was a part of the initiation into the cult. And I don't know how much study you guys have done on Freemasons, but that is literally their first and second steps. To be initiated as a Freemason is. They claim that once you step over the threshold into their Masonic Temple, you are agreeing to all the things that you're about to be initiated into. And it's literally.

[Top]

Hey, Sal.

[Sean]

Hank. What's going on? We haven't worked a case in years.

[Top]

I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy.

[Sean]

Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options.

[Top]

Got. Found a great car at a Great price, and it got delivered the next day.

[Sean]

It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank.

[Top]

Yeah, you're right.

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Since I'm always booking my next trip.

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[Matt]

I think there's something like that tied in with. Was it with Dagon? Because they took the.

[Sean]

Was.

[Matt]

When they took the Ark of the Covenant back, they put it in the same section with Dagon, the fish head, and then boom, he fell over.

[Top]

It's interesting, though, because within the spiritual realm, everything is based off of consent.

[Sean]

Dude, what are you talking about?

[Matt]

Another thing I did kind of want to go back to a little bit, though. We're talking about, like, all this release of this stuff and all this information and this overload of information. In Psalms 1, it talks about, like, the council of the Ungodly. And I just think we live in a day and a time where we just all have to be so mindful about the council of the Ungodly, because it's not necessarily what you would call, like, good or bad counsel. Right? Like, you just have all these dudes. It could be Joe Rogan. It could be the guy Elon Musk. It could be Laird Hamilton, if you're into that kind of thing, or Goggins or Cam Haynes. It could be these dudes. It's, like, good. Maybe it's good for your life or whatever, but it's still the council of the Ungodly. And we just have to be mindful of, like, balancing that out with, like, the counsel of God.

[Raven]

Right?

[Matt]

Like, that's the main thing right now, is as we're. All this information is just being downloaded on everybody, just, like, keeping it in the context of the word of God.

[Raven]

And this is why we keep Matt on the third seat, because we will spin off into crazy. It's so easy to do if you don't have this. This firm foundation or this center stone that you can go, okay, we have to come back to that. Yeah, like, we can touch the edges a little bit, but, man, don't go too far and make sure. You get back to, to stasis.

[Top]

You know, with this release though, I don't think that they, they necessarily want people to be uninitiated. I think that they are making great efforts to initiate the public. It seems like a lot of what they hope to do in the occult or let's say even within the intelligence agencies in their operations like MK Ultra and things like that, people are familiar with that. They hope to do it at scale. And so what you see happening in, let's say a Masonic lodge or what you see happening in an intelligence agency, you know, sterile laboratory environment, they do hope to implement that at scale, you know, to the masses. And I think that with the, with the ritual that, that allows you to sort of like. They use Jacob's Ladder as their analogy for climbing the rungs of ladder. And this is, you know, each one represents a new level of Gnosis. They do that to us, but they do it through media mostly. I would say now they do it through Super Bowl. Yeah, the super bowl is a great example. Large traumatic events, right? Could be a trauma, sort of loose harvesting thing. But I also think, you know, the, the, the Twin Towers, for example, representing like the divine feminine and the divine masculine, you know, they, they become eliminated and then what is erected instead is one tower, this joining of the, the genders. It also is a multitude of other things like most things in ritual are, but it's, it's, we're subjected to it at point, some scale. So yeah, the super bowl you might be exposed to like, let's say the last super bowl, they did quite a bit of like divine feminine symbolism, right? And it goes over the vast majority of people's heads. I do wonder about the subconscious.

[Raven]

Well, that goes back to the Deuteronomy in the Septuagint that you're pointing at this. The idea of prostitution in the temple is worship of the divine feminine. It kind of always goes back to Isis or I forget the other names of the gods that were being deified in these temples.

[Sean]

Astartes was the female fertility God that was oftentimes worshiped alongside BAAL or, or l. The.

[Top]

It's funny too because these, these divine feminine kind of, you know, goddess archetypes, what they typically will, you know, it espouses a female liberation. But when you look around there's like prostitution and sex slavery and everything. And so it's funny how those things go hand in hand because is the same thing happens in the west now what you think is like the, the height of the, the feminist movement and and this, you know, divine feminine female liberation thing often results in some sort of, you know, sex trafficking, prostitution. And these things are, are presented in some ways as like sexual liberation. It's just funny. The language of things is almost like spell casting, which is really what the.

[Matt]

Exodus 32 chapter that we broke down last week or the week before, like Moses comes down the mountain and they got the golden calf. And then it says that they're like in the King James, I think it says that they're like eating and dancing and playing something. To that extent, Sean could probably understand that a little bit more than we do.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Look up the definition of that word play.

[Matt]

Yeah. That had to be some sexual thing to a false God specifically. Right?

[Sean]

Yeah, they, they did worship. Bill 100. Now there's a, you know, I, I'm what you would. Many people would class me as what you would call tour observance just because I, I try to observe the Sabbath and eat clean.

[Matt]

But a group here just finished. Sorry to cut you off. But that, but that's a group we have every Friday. Same thing, man. And they had it, they had a. There was actually a feast here last week. It's not, she said it's not a biblical feast, but it's something that's celebrated now. Do you know, do you know what that was would have been last Friday?

[Sean]

No, just this last Friday.

[Matt]

We have a group every Friday that Lisa rules and Top's been to it too. Top likes it.

[Raven]

Yeah, it's.

[Matt]

She teaches like the biblical calendar, the, the feast days, the, you know, the appointed times.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure what calendar she's on if she's doing a feast last Friday other than just the weekly Sabbath. Because, because Leviticus 23 calls both the weekly Sabbaths plus all the yearly feasts. It calls them all feasts of God and holy convocations. But, but basically like I, in, in that community of people that you know, would be classified as, that they often. I just went blank. What were we talking about, guys?

[Matt]

Sorry. You were Torah observant and we were talking about how we have a group here that, that does it every week too.

[Sean]

I apologize. It was something that's I think divine feminine.

[Top]

We were talking about that earlier and, and how that's.

[Sean]

Oh yeah, Exodus 32. Yeah. So there's a, there's a, some prominent tour based ministries that for about a decade or more have taught a different interpretation of Exodus 32. And we, we strongly disagree with it because like I do a lot of historical research on these False gods. And the golden calf that they built at the base of Mount Sina 32 is another representation of the APIs Pool. It's another representation of Baal that Egypt did worship. Baal. There's an entire Exodus 14 bales of fun. There was an entire temple on top of the mountain overlooking the. The place of the Red Cross, the Red Sea crossing.

[Top]

Is this interchangeable with Hathor?

[Sean]

Well, Hathor would be the female personification of the consort to bail. So, like, they would call their wives consorts and then they would make up a whole bunch of them, have different personifications of them. So I don't have your.

[Top]

Are you familiar with this phenomenon that's taking place right now? It's, it's prominent within the UAP community, but there are characters, Ryan Bledsoe and Chris Bledsoe. It seems like they're. They're moving towards disclosure. I know we've been saying that for quite some time, but what's fascinating is these guys are loud voices within the UAP community and they have a message recently to deliver. And it is that Ryan Bledsoe, the father, is in communication with something that he calls the Lady. And the lady, he is telling people is Mother Mary, but she goes by multitudes of names. One of those names being Hathor, which I think is. Is fascinating. Super red flag, huge red flag. But I do think, Sean, that it's actually going to play if we do end up going to this place where we see ufo, disclosure, the divine feminine, the goddess. And if you think about our culture and where we've gotten to with the feminist movement, the feminization of men, the. The masculinization of women, I, I feel like in some way, shape or form, the groundwork is kind of being laid for this phenomenon. A lot of abductee experiencers will talk about the Lady. For example, Ryan Bledsoe. It's actually kind of horrifying what he's been through, if you believe what he's been through. But he says something to the effect of he was beset upon, plagued effectively by grays for a while. And then what ends up happening is in a good cop, bad cop sort of scenario, he meets the lady. And the lady is, you know, loving and very similar to. What's this guy's name with the UAP recovery?

[Raven]

Jake Barber.

[Top]

Jake Barber, who's recovering this egg shaped uap. This takes place like last year. It's on the news and he says in the interview about the recovery of this UAP that is. Suddenly he's filled with this. This spirit of this woman, it feels loving, overwhelming amounts of love. Like a goddess is how he describes it. And I think this character is going to come play a part in this, but in a good cop, bad cop sort of scenario, she. She exposes to Ryan Bledsoe in his own testimony that she controls the Grays and that she can make this stop. In this experience, he's also shown his family, I believe, murdered. And so there's this element of fear. There's this element of if you don't go forth and. And spread this information, you know, then this is something that could happen to you. So now he's out here and he's saying to people that this is Mary, which is interesting because it kind of brings into question the. The Fatima experience, you know, where Mary supposedly shows herself to multitudes of people. I think it's like 7,000 people. And. And there's even an element of a craft, a spinning silver disc that's involved in this scenario somehow. There's. And this could be one of the huge downfalls with idol worship. I know that the Catholic Church came out not long ago. I don't know if this is still standing, but they called Mary co Redeemer alongside Christ. This is a huge problem if you're idolizing Queen of Heaven, right? If you're idolizing Mary and all of a sudden something slips in. Not to say that something couldn't impersonate Christ. I do think that that's a real, you know, real threat for people. There's all kinds of ideas like Pleiadian Jesus and. And New Age Jesus and this and that. But it's just another hole in the game if you're engaging in idol worship. If Mary is your idol of choice and a thing comes down posing as Mary, also going by the name Ishtar, which is one of the names that. That Ryan Bledsoe gave, and Hathor, as well as Mother Mary and the lady. So it's a. It's a bizarre phenomenon, but it's this divine, feminine. Hey, Sal.

[Sean]

Hank. What's going on? We haven't worked a case in years.

[Top]

I just bought my car at Carvana, and it was so easy.

[Sean]

Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a.

[Top]

Great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day.

[Sean]

It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank.

[Top]

Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

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[Sean]

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[Top]

Are you really buying a car online.

[Sean]

On Autotrader right Now, really? At a playground?

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Really?

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[Sean]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

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Really?

[Sean]

And you just put in your info and boom, car's in your budget. Mom needs a second.

[Top]

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

[GoFundMe Announcer]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership.

[Sean]

One sec, sweetie.

[Matt]

Mommy's buying a car.

[Raven]

Mommy, look.

[Top]

I think your kid is walking up the slide. Kyle.

[GoFundMe Announcer]

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[Sean]

Autotrader. Buy your car online. Really? Yeah. That is consistent with the ancient depictions of. Of. Of Isis and Hathor and Ishtar. Ishtar would just been like the equivalent of Isis or Hathar. In fact, in my Investigating Babylon series, actually, I have a few segments where I show the historical connection where, you know, historians, secular historians, actually admit that there is syncretism between Hathor and Ishtar. And so because there was a prominent narrative within academia for many years trying to. Trying to segment like, oh, the Canaanite gods are different from the Egyptian gods, and they were different from the Greek gods. But then in the past 20 years, they've finally come out. I think we talked about this in one of our previous interviews, but they finally started to come out and say, okay, no, there's a ton of syncretism here. Like, they're calling them a different name because they speak a different language, but the God personifies exactly the same thing to each culture. They worship it in exactly the same way. You know, I mean, so, like. But what's interesting about Hathar and Isis is that not only they're a feminine goddess personification of the consorts of Ra, but they're also have a different Isis and Hathor has a different personification to be the eye of Raw, which I think is fascinating. And this is where, again, I know you guys are busy. I don't know if you have time to actually finish my Investigating Babylon series. Speaking of information overload, that's why we did 21 parts. Because if I were just to give the person the last end of the series at the front of the conversation, it would be 10 hours of me backing up and trying to explain context. Right? So I put all the context out in 21 parts in our series and basically try to. And it leads to Hathor and Isis and the personification of the eye of Ra and how the Egyptians used to view that and why it's such a fascinating concept, in my opinion, about the alien disclosure that I think they are going. So here's my opinion, guys. I don't know if I shared this last time, and it's okay. If we disagree, this is just my opinion for my studies. I do believe there's gonna be an alien disclosure soon. And I don't think it's going to, I think it's going to be a good alien. Good alien, right. They're going to portray it as, I think the, the, the entity that they're going to introduce to the world has been subtly shown to us in all forms of media, video Games, movies, TVs, all kinds of stuff. One of the more popular personifications of this I think we've seen as the traveler in destiny and he's the good alien represented by a sphere who shows up to help, to warn us about coming bad aliens and getting, getting the planet ready for the coming bad aliens. But I don't. And so there's, I believe, and this is just like I said from, from my study, from listening to things that the elites are trying to publicly talk about and what they, where they plan to take culture and society, I believe that they're wanting to actually have a, a generation, if not more 50 to 70 years of actual integration with this disclosed good alien quote, unquote, good alien whom we get used to. And a whole generation of children grow up with this thing already here, interacting with it, being consulted by the elites of the world, presidents and dignitaries of the world. But it's in a spherical craft in the sky. And this is the same spherical craft, Vimana, that I believe was the eye of Raw in ancient Egypt.

[Top]

That's interesting. I, I kind of.

[Sean]

Which also has control over other unclean spirits, just like Isis did.

[Raven]

So Matt, Matt's obviously missed our last couple of episodes and he's not familiar with your work, but these vimanas are.

[Matt]

Indian vamanas, like you see, and you still see them on like Hindu temples and stuff?

[Raven]

Yeah, man, I don't know. Usually you just keep your head under the.

[Matt]

Well, no, I just like to let you guys teach me stuff and pretend.

[Sean]

Like I don't know.

[Top]

We don't teach you anything.

[Matt]

Sometimes I'm pretending, sometimes I'm not.

[Top]

I do like the scenario. The most likely version of, of unfolding events is one of like acclimation. Long term acclimation. Yeah. I hadn't considered 70 years, but yeah.

[Raven]

I think he's right. I mean, it's taken 70 years from the 1950s till now to acclimate us with the technology that they've been putting in place.

[Matt]

Wait, is that what Sean's saying? Is that like that we're at the.

[Top]

End of the 70 years? If this thing Arrived. It would take that long, would take generations.

[Sean]

That's my theory.

[Top]

Shout out to Jack.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Top]

He said childhood's end. And that, that's a, A book by who? Who is that? Arthur C. Clarke. And stop reading the chat. Well, no, that's actually where I was going and Jack crushed. So, you know, I, I only watched it because I can't read. But in that series, which I think is available on Amazon, you know, there, there is this introduction of a species. The species doesn't disclose itself, but, but it does introduce technologies and systems to create like a veritable utopia.

[Raven]

Over.

[Top]

I think that it's a much shorter period than 60, 70 years. It's like a four year period, I think. But in this, humanity goes through a rapid development. All these systems, all these technologies. You know, it creates a scenario where even though humans have not seen the entities, the entities have communicated with them through politicians, et cetera, and have promised to reveal themselves at a certain date, but during that four year period they gain the trust because why wouldn't you trust them? They've, you know, ushered in heaven on earth and then of course, by the end of it, when they do reveal themselves, their demons. So, you know, it's, I, I'm expecting to see something very much like that. And this is a big issue that I'm having lately where there are people. I mean, you know, we had, right now everybody's, A lot of people are aware we had a contention with Timothy Albarino, but outside of Albarino, it's his position that we have an issue with. The position is that linking these things to demonstration is a mistake. And, and you know, Albarino got on our radar because he was specifically saying if you believe that aliens are demons, you're an idiot. Now, now that is a. Almost fair.

[Raven]

He didn't say idiot. He used our.

[Top]

He did.

[Raven]

He used the word that we patent pended.

[Top]

It's our word.

[Raven]

Yeah, it's our word. How dare you.

[Top]

Now, you know, the issue with that is if you were to say what is a demon and you took it within the context of the Book of Enoch and you say it's a disembodied spirit of a deceased Nephilim, and then started to make the argument from there that a Gray or a Pleiadian or any multitude of the alien species that are supposedly out there are not that they're not a disembodied spirit of a Nephilim, then maybe you could have a conversation. But the way that it's framed, I think from a guy who has Much more nuance to offer. One time is all right, two times it was coming up again and again and again. He was making rounds on shows, he was tweeting about it. And it got to the extent where I'm like, this is a, a strange straw man to drag around the Internet. It just didn't make sense to me. It wasn't helpful to the conversation because he wasn't adding that nuance, not on his tweets or not anything else like that. He was just beating up this straw man. And my issue is, and I wonder what you think about this, Sean, if somebody were to look at the alien phenomenon at large, doesn't matter the multitude of entities that are inhabiting it or that are at play. And they said that's demonic. I'm not going to follow those things. Whatever they want, I'll not be involved with it. I'm following my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. What do you make of that person?

[Sean]

Well, they're, they're definitely, they're either extremely deceived, you know, they're intellectually uninformed or biblically uninformed, or they're being pressured by outside forces to maintain a narrative that goes against.

[Top]

No, no, I'm sorry. I mean, I mean the individual who sees the aliens and calls them demonic and wants nothing to do with them.

[Sean]

Okay, well then that's an informed biblical person because like, this is actually in Ephesians, chapter 6, verse 10 through 12. It literally, in the Greek, it tells you, yeah, this is the, the cosmos. Kratos is the, the realm between the land and the moon, where the unclean spirits live. Like this.

[Matt]

Would you, would you call that the second heaven too? Would you refer to it like that or no?

[Sean]

Yeah, Judaism refers to that as a second heaven. So to speak, is like the, an upper atmosphere, if you will, beyond the, the clouds. I'm a little different, guys. And this is where I'm going to run into probably. I don't know how you guys feel about this, but my Timothy's whole argument is completely done the moment you apply the definition of the firmament, biblical firmaments, and you get away from this heliocentric model, because that's not what the Bible describes. So, like, I, like, I want to have a loving discussion or debate with Timothy because it, it'll be nothing but two hours of frustration for him because he'll. I'll be forcing him to hold to biblical definitions of words and not made up invented philosophic definitions from modern science. So, like, again, the Bible teaches very clearly abortion is Murder. Abortion is wrong. The world screams. Abortion is okay. Everyone should do it. Right? The Bible teaches very clearly sexual morality outside of marriage is wrong. The world screams, go on a. Go on a swingers cruise. Right? Like, right. The. The world in every category is constantly saying the opposite of what the Bible says. And when it comes to how creation was described, they're also shouting the opposite of what the Bible has been saying this whole time. So I'm actually a weirdo because I'm a biblical cosmologist. I do believe the Bible gives us a very explicit, with over 500 mentions, explanations and contextual definitions of a creation model that is, that is. Doesn't involve, you know, the, the stars in the sky being rocks in the. In a void of space, but instead they're actually points of light put inside of a firmament to shine down upon the earth as the Bible describes. So we're actually enclosed in time, right?

[Matt]

Seasons.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah, we're an enclosed creation. And that's what's fascinating about the Book of Enoch. He literally gets a tour of this created enclosed model, including how the seasons happen, how the wind comes into our enclosure, all these things. Like, it's all explained and it's very logical. Like, it's very like the, you know, the creator created mechanisms by which the sun, moon and stars move, the winds move, the seasons move. It even tells you the, the, the doors called portals in the ancient language, of which there's 12 of them around the firmament that lets in different types of winds that creates the seasons. So, like, it's, it's a fascinating, very functional thing that can be actually replicated and built.

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[Sean]

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[Top]

Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

[Sean]

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[Raven]

Right.

[Sean]

It made it all function. And he looked at me and he goes, so you want to, you want a vacuum chamber with a bowl inside of it that's spinning with water sticking to the outside of the bowl inside of a vacuum chamber with all the air pulled out. He's like, that's impossible. I said, yes. And that's what is told to us where we live. That's that how. Yes. And he's like, what do you mean? The Bible describes, we're living in an enclosed firmament. Everything is created with order. Like there's, you know, gas pressure for a reason. You need a container for gas pressure. So anyway, it's that whole context of the Bible disrupts Albarino's argument that there's, you know, Alpha Centauri aliens coming our way from 4 million light years away.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Now if I, if I were to play in the playground of his argument, I would, it would still be undercut because we have a plethora of biblical explanation that the spiritual realm interacts with the physical realm all day long.

[Raven]

Yeah.

[Top]

Oh, he doesn't even accept it. It seems that that's like spiritual realm.

[Raven]

That's why we got stuck for 45 minutes on like our aliens, demons. But once he mentioned the spiritual realm and he's talking about the symbolic nature of what the prophets are experiencing as angels, I was like, I got big problems with that. I was, I was cool to let him slide with and explain himself. But I'm like, I'm looking at five scriptures here that talk about the description of this, of the server from over thousands of years. And you're saying that. No, it's just symbolic of the time period. It can't be.

[Top]

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a, A bizarre experience because I, I think what we found out in the end is he has a vested interest in being close to disclosure, which is another thing that makes me feel like we might actually be there because it feels like a lot of people are kind of moving into their positions and accepting their narratives and, and trying to cozy up next to whoever's associated with this or that. And he's taking pictures and he's smoking cigars with Elizondo. Elizondo is, is an intelligent asset for those who aren't familiar with him. He's the guy that was the lead character in the recent Age of Disclosure documentary. And he's probably right now the. The government approved mouthpiece for disclosure. He's the one that they want us to take seriously as they frame the narrative. And, you know, this is a guy that's bought out fake pictures of UFOs as evidence and then been exposed that the, the pictures were obvious fakes. And, you know, you'll find Albarino defending the guy in one word answer. Someone said, why should we take Elizondo seriously when he's ruined disclosure as a, as a serious topic by you know, bringing fake photos? And he go. And he literally said, so.

[Raven]

It's actually very funny today. Well, or maybe the other day. Rogan on his show says that, yeah, I have hosted UFO disinformation agents. I'm pretty sure that they're disinformation. I was like, I wonder who you're talking about. Yeah, there's Lou Elizondo standing next to.

[Top]

Him, and then him and Elizondo are taking pictures together, smoking cigars together, him and Timothy Albarino. So I, I think what actually happened there is we.

[Raven]

Accidentally disrupted a government narrative.

[Top]

Well, to be honest, Sean, I think what happened is he. He saw us being loud about the aliens and demonic connection, because I do those stupid glasses. I did happen to. Also, I dress like him. I dress like Indiana Jones and I mocked him and he got upset about that. But I do think there is a massive overlap between what people identify as the alien abduction phenomenon and demonic encounters. You know, the, the paralysis, the unbelievable feeling of doom. The, the inexplicably bright white lights. The fact that they flee at all in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Sean]

Yeah, I was going to mention that.

[Top]

Unbelievable.

[Sean]

They're not fleeing at the name of Shiva. They're not Fleeing at the name of Zeus. They're, you know, only Christ.

[Top]

I think what ended up happening there is because he asked for a debate. He asked for a debate a multitude of times, actually, to which we said no, because I didn't think there was anything that worth discussing there. And, and he kept asking for it. And I think what happened is we're getting close to this season of disclosure, whatever that's going to look like, whenever that's going to happen. And, and I think he picked some guys to do good PR with. You know, we, we present in, in many ways as crass, kind of arrogant idiots. And I think that he selected us because. To put a, a beating on, because we are crass. We are crass, arrogant idiots. And to put a beating on us would have been great PR for him.

[Raven]

But instead, instead we read the Bible and we were like, wait, what does that say?

[Matt]

Yeah, yeah, some of that stuff was a little tough man. No, spirit realm was just, was just tough man. Like, and then just, just like most basic definitions, like, you can't define the spirit realm. Okay? But I mean, the most basic terms, like, it's where God lives. You know, it's like, what do you want to call that? You know, like we're, if we're going to call it the hyperspatial realm, like, that's cool, but that's not found in the scripture.

[Top]

He didn't want to call it anything.

[Matt]

It's just weird to have these new ideas and phrases, you know, from the Bible.

[Sean]

That's, that's the bigger problem I've seen permeating actual major Christianity. Most churches in Christianity is an ancient Gnostic interpretation. Of what? Well, the Gnostic interpretation would be that the Supreme Source who created the pleroma to make everything within our creative reality, that that supreme source is outside of our created reality and outside of time and space, outside of physical, physical matter. Right. And that's the ancient Gnostic view. And that got perpetrated by pretty significant church, Church theologians throughout time. And it is a dominant view. Like, I've interviewed pastors on my channel where I asked them, where's God? And they just look at me like, I, I don't know. And I'm like, well, okay, let's just slowly walk through this. You believe God exists. And they'll say, well, yeah, okay. And they'll say, well, what, which, what are you talking about? The Holy Spirit, the Father, the Son? I'm like, oh, it's just about the Father, right? Do you think the Father. Does the Father sit on the throne, like it says in psalms and Revelation and other places. And they'll say, well, says that he sits on the throne. I was like, wait, yeah, does he actually sit on a throne? Where's God? What is God real? And you'd be surprised, brother, how many other pastors I've talked to on my channel that that will admit. I've debated them. Very vitriolic, hateful pastors even. I've debated them that will say, oh well, the Bible shows us a manifestation of the Father holding the scroll in Revelation 5 that Jesus walks up to and grabs. But he's not really there because God doesn't really exist. God is just an energy and God doesn't really exist. He doesn't have an actual form or a body because that would be somehow limited in him. It goes against something called divine simplicity, which is a theological construction, a philosophic construct of theology. So they. This is taught in seminaries.

[Matt]

It must be it. Right? That must. If, if, if you know, that's like a one off thing, it's like a common thing that it must be being taught somewhere. And you're saying what, what is the origin of it? Like what?

[Sean]

Like I'm telling you the origin of it is it's called divine simplicity. It goes back to Neoplatonism from the third century, but it really is pulled from plato from the 7th century BC. It's just, that's why they call it Neoplatonism. And it's the variances of Gnosticism mixed in with it which, which basically says the Father who is the ultimate creator of all things doesn't tangibly actually exist.

[Matt]

Yikes.

[Sean]

Yes. I'm. Yeah, it's crazy to think of because there's so many descriptions in the, in the Bible about the Father actually having like he has a. He shows Moses's backside but not his face. Yeah. And I've asked the pastor, so what did Moses see right there? And they'll say, oh, he, he didn't see. He didn't see it actually the back of the Father, that's just what he thought he saw. Yeah.

[Raven]

And then how extremely limiting of, of human beings like this is. This is another problem with Albarinos. Like you think to understand how this work. Like, well, show me your scientific thesis that's been proven as to why this is.

[Top]

Bring your receipts.

[Raven]

Yeah, bring your supernatural receipts. You think as a human being that's dressed like Indiana Jones to understand these things, like is God physical? If he wants to be, is he everywhere at the same time? Yeah. Yes. Everything So I think there was something.

[Sean]

Supernatural happening when they were shouting Kalima and they were pulling his heart out of his chest like that.

[Top]

You know, he also believes that the. The garden is allegorical. So, yeah, he's. He's in lockstep.

[Sean]

Yeah, he's. He's 100. He's. He's gotten. I don't know if he went to seminary, but it sounds like there's a lot of people that have been seminary trained that have influenced him.

[Matt]

Did you watch his old stuff? We're about the same age, man. Like, his old stuff was, like, so good. I made Raven watch it. It's like these ancient civilizations and ancient r. And like, yeah, it was fascinating stuff. Like, did you ever watch the old stuff, Sean?

[Sean]

Yes, but not more than once, so I really couldn't quote it or. Or, like, point.

[Top]

You know what my video. So my issue was like, so, you know, I was saying aliens are demons, right? And it's like, once again, to hash out the details is almost useless, right? To the. To the person, the experiencer that's going through this, if you believe that they're demonic, you're in way better standings than if you are kind of pondering the nature of them. And what. What is a demon and what is the spiritual realm? It's like, no, cast it out in the name of Christ. All right, that's going to work. But like.

[Raven]

Or if it doesn't, I mean, prayer and fasting, like, prayer.

[Top]

Right, Right. Whatever the kid may be, it is in opposition to the kingdom of God. It does not have your best interest at hearts, and it will deceive you. So he starts asking for a debate after I start mocking him, and I decide I don't do debates. But, like, I am mocking you. I'm. I've ordered an Indiana Jones outfit off Amazon. I. I might as well at least, like, be a man and step up and. And, you know, have this conversation about my ideas versus your ideas. And. And so I go, you know what? Let me learn about this guy a little bit more, because I only am peripherally aware of him. I've seen some of his appearances on podcasts. Matt shows me these documentaries. In the documentary, he talks about how the Vatican is gearing up for this big disclosure, alien disclosure deception, and that, you know, Tom Horn or Steve Quail, one of the two, says, it's the great deception. And then Timothy Albarino says, I'm afraid the Antichrist is going to emerge from this. And I go, the Antichrist? If the Antichrist was going to emerge from Something. And I said that that something was demonic. Wouldn't we be in agreeance? Wouldn't you look at me and be like, yeah, dude, pretty close. Here's some more information. But you're like, over the target. That's not what he's doing. Instead he's saying, if you believe this, you're an idiot. Which is like people that.

[Sean]

I. I was called an idiot. I was called an idiot by pastors. Literally. I was, I was called a, a blasphemer or a heretic, an idiot. I was, I was called disrespectful to God because I actually, my name is.

[GoFundMe Announcer]

MacKenzie and I started to go fund me for the adoptive mother of a non verbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for the, this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[Sean]

GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising.

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Platform, trusted by over 200 million people.

[Top]

Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by.

[Sean]

GoFundMe believed that the Bible said that he has a real form and exists and can interact with mankind.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And they thought that was just ludicrous. Right. Which, which means he's a spirit because, you know, John 4. Right. God is spirit. Right. So if we're talking about the interaction between the physical and the spiritual realm and if there's any, any reality of continuity there, well, the Bible shows it everywhere. Like Satan himself is a spirit. Like he's an angel. He's not. He wasn't born of the dirt of the earth. He was. He's a spiritual being. Hebrews 1:14. But yet he is talking to Jesus, taking Jesus to the top of a really high mountain. Right? Like he's up there with Jesus on the top of the temple, trying to get Jesus to throw himself down. Like, you're trying to tell me that that's not like a physical interaction. Like, how did, how did he, how did he take Jesus up to the top? Like, just the very concept of demon of Demonic infestation or possession is a physical reality that is a spiritual entity that has physically taken over the faculties of a physical entity. Entity. Like there is a. There is a.

[Raven]

And.

[Sean]

And the whole concept of saying there is no correlation between, or there is no spiritual realm and there's. There's no correlation there. And that. That these UFOs would have to only be of the material world just completely ignores the concept that we ourselves are a mixture of the earth and the Spirit. Genesis 2, 7. Like in Isaiah 26:19, we talk about the resurrection. It says the earth will give birth to departed spirits.

[Top]

Spirits.

[Sean]

That's us.

[Matt]

Well, and we did bring up like the 2 King 6 passage where Elisha's servant comes out, right? Like he comes out early in the morning and it's like, yeah, this spirit realm, if you will, in this natural realm, they're just overlapped. It. It seems like all the time. They're just overlapped. It's there. It wasn't like they traveled some distance to be there. It's just all of a sudden the servant's eyes were open and then boom. You could see it, but it was always there.

[Top]

Yeah, it was. It was a bizarre conversation where things got really strange because you can imagine I was confused by the time that he said the Antichrist was going to come from this. I'm like, we're speaking the same language. I don't know where the disconnect is. I go on them. Age of Disclosure happens. It's this government propaganda piece about, you know, what, what's going on with the UAP phenomenon. And I watch it with the audience and then we become aware that Alberino has done a review of it. So we watch that with our audience.

[Raven]

Torture.

[Top]

It was a terrible, pure torture. It's a very boring thing. I mean, if you're aware of what's going on with like the UAP thing.

[Raven]

But we love our audience.

[Top]

We love our audience, so we'll do that for you. So what ends up happening is in the Age of Disclosure, they do mention Christianity in a very brief moment. And that is around the 20 minute mark or something like that, where they say, Lou Elizondo, I believe, says it. He goes, within the Pentagon, there's an old guard of superstitious people who are halting Progress by calling UFOs and aliens demons are devils. And they're. They've been standing in the way of the progress, but we've gotten past that now. That's all they say, which is, you know, to me, in my opinion, a small Seed that's planted a seed of doubt. Who's calling these things devils and demons? Christians? No. Right. I mean, Christ believers are calling these things devils and demons.

[Raven]

And so the Collins elite, whatever the case is.

[Top]

But, but you're, you're putting pieces together subconsciously. You connect those dots. If you're an atheist or you're agnostic, but you love a sci fi, and you go, wow, look, we're almost there. But these old religious a holes are standing in the way of progress. Well, then those old religious ales are, are probably Christians. Later on, when I watch Albarino's review of it, it's a, it's a tip. It's an exact list of everything that was in the documentary. And he doesn't give his opinion on anything really. Except for that, except for that, where he echoes the sentiment. I agree. These people are standing in the way of progress. They mean well, but they're misguided. And I'm going to. Wait, wait, wait. Why is he, why is he saying that? Because, because in my estimation, it was a, a seed that was planted through a piece of propaganda, right? Christians stand in the way of progress. And now he's saying the same thing. This whole thing is, is, is bizarre to me. So the entire. By the time I get there, Sean, I'm in a really weird headspace because typically I'm, you know, I'm not like that. I'm not combative, I'm not adversarial with people. But I now have this feeling that this guy is doing something that is massively detrimental to anybody who's going to arm themselves against what I estimate to be a demonic force. It's a demonic force. This isn't like a game. This is a thing that they want to do. They want to do disclosure. They want to introduce us to these entities. They want to fool us about their nature. And you're helping that. And so the whole thing becomes very strange by the time we have this conversation. And he never gives me, by the way, a sufficient answer. Sean, we go through the whole thing. He, he filibusters for 95 of that entire episode. And I don't know, he just, he, he never gives you an outright answer of it. He, he gets hung up on definitions. He speaks for so long in so many platitudes that you, you come away if you're only kind of paying attention peripherally, that he's intelligent and that you should be paying attention to him because he's using great vocabulary and he's referencing so many things. He does A thing where he goes for so long, he minimizes the amount of questions you can ask, and then he makes so many points that it's impossible to address even just one. And the vast majority of the points that he makes are not even answers to the very pointed questions and accusations that we have for him.

[Raven]

The email I sent him read very specifically, we have a minor disagreement. It should take about 20 minutes of the show. The way you just told us in the pre show. I want to have, like, you want us to give our testimonies 15, 20 minutes. Cool. We're all conscious. See the clock right there. I think we kind of filled that space in. Now we're talking about other things. Brilliant, right? There's an idea for a show. That's what I told him. And I also gave him bullet points over things that we can cover, interesting topics. I'm like, I don't. I don't think we could really disagree for an hour and a half on this one thing. He disagreed with us for two and a half hours on one thing, and I still don't know what he thinks. It's bizarre.

[Top]

It was really bizarre. Yeah, that was. The. The people in the comments overwhelmingly came away saying, I don't know what his points were, which is weird. And then, of course, after it was over, he looked really bad. And then he denounced us as Christians.

[Raven]

Well, of course, he accused us of doing what. I'll just say he's doing what Blurry Creatures does and not releasing. Not. Not going to release this episode.

[Top]

Yeah, that was really weird. Over and over again, he accused us of not releasing the episode.

[Sean]

Set that up from the very beginning, though, when he. When he started saying. Giving you a hard time about the Patreon stuff and saying, will this whole thing be available? He was setting that up from the beginning.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

This will be available, right? This will go.

[Top]

This is going to be available.

[Sean]

It's already available. It's live.

[Top]

Well, yeah, from the gate. He did that. Which I think is another debate tactic, because what he's done is he's put us on the defensive and he's come there to, like, have this argument with us if we're on the defensive. And we haven't even gotten to the point of contention yet. I now have to work to get to a neutral place where I can then go on the offensive. So I really think all that was was just a setup to try to get us, you know, off our foot. But, yeah, we explained.

[Sean]

Yeah. Quick question. In his past work, did he ever talk about his view that he Thought like the demonic realm was real and spiritual realm was real.

[Matt]

I don't remember any of his old stuff. Like, I mean, the minute when I heard that like winged angels were just symbolic, like specifically seraphim and cherubim, like if you're just saying like common angels that we need to be mindful of because you could be entertaining angels unaware when you're entertaining strangers. And all these times they show up and they're clearly look just like humans.

[Sean]

The entire book of Enoch, which he teaches from.

[Matt]

Yeah, there's clearly these entities, if we want to use a general word, angel, you know, they're seraphim, they're cherubim, they have wings, six wing cherubim and Isaiah six are flying around saying, holy, holy, holy. You know, to say that that's symbolic. I think I would have caught that back in the day. I don't, I don't ever remember anything like that. And I don't ever remember anything. Yes, that wasn't real. I don't think so. I don't think it's in any of his old stuff.

[Sean]

Stuff.

[Raven]

No, it was mentioned, but.

[Sean]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Raven]

I'm just saying, like in his book Birthright, he does start. That's when he kind of starts to go down that narrative. And that's around 2019, when that book is released and probably written, you know, around 2018.

[Matt]

Interesting stuff in that book though.

[Raven]

Interesting. And which I told him, I said, I agree. I like the book up to about 70% of it, where he starts to go a little bit off the rails with the idea of, you know, same thing. If you think aliens or demons, like, completely misguided, you have no idea what you're talking about. So that's right around the time frame that he's painting this narrative. And then from then I watch him, you know, you do big, big shows on mainstream, sort of mainstream channels.

[Top]

Sean Ryan's a pretty mainstream daily Wire.

[Raven]

Sean Ryan, Glenn Beck, you know, Michael Knowles, things like this. And you're pushing this same narrative and then I see you hanging out with Lou Elizondo and I've got to ask some questions which I don't even really care about. We've looked from the side and said, hmm, seems strange.

[Top]

My, my whole thing was just, who cares? Why would you separate this phenomenon when there's so much overlap?

[Raven]

Well, my thing is, why do you, why do you seek out. Why did you seek out the people who are like, we're like low level people just talking about it. Yeah, you can talk about it on your large shows.

[Sean]

Well, I just think that's the difference. Guys, I want to encourage you that you're not quote unquote low level for long. You guys are growing and you're doing, you're doing engaging content and you know, you're running the marathon of YouTube and you're going to do well. Like you guys are going to have a huge channel in five years. That too. And he's trying to head off opposition early, but at the same time, for the people asking the comments, guys, we're not trying just to sit here and have a bash fashion on Albarino. This is actually us as Christians looking at another Christian researcher talking about this topic and going, why the narrative change? Or is it a narrative change? Or is it just we finally reached the end of his understanding and now he's run into contradiction that and doesn't know how to handle it publicly, you know, because he's always held this, this internal narrative, but it never came up in interviews because he was always able to talk about other things. But here we go. You guys brought up this specific narrative that he doesn't really have a good answer for and it got revealed and now it's looking really weird. It's looking contradictory to his previous work. It's, to me, none of it makes sense that he's a proponent. I've seen multiple interviews where he's, he's quoting First Enoch like it's, like it's canon, like it's scripture. You cannot believe angels are symbolic and be quoting from First Enoch. You are in utter contradiction as a person promoting God's Word and A True History of Rebaeus angels to say that angels are symbolic and aren't real entities. Yet you're trying to quote from First Enoch it explicitly. They're main characters in First Enoch. Like they're the main characters explaining to you how they interact with mankind, took wives, had children, taught mankind all sorts of tomfoolery and all sorts of destructive corruptive practices, invented idol worship with their sons and Nephilim. Like there is no more stronger correlation between spiritual beings and earthy beings than First Enoch. So you can't maintain this narrative that oh, these, these entities that are teaching, that are afraid of the name of Jesus Christ, that lead people off into demonic experiments that resembles BAAL worship, by the way, with all the butt stuff and then try to say that oh, these are not demonic or these are not in associated with occultic activity and there is no spiritual, there's no spiritual ontology of them, they're just physical beings. Look, this is Where I know you guys mentioned this to him and I don't think he really addressed it. I think he kind of slept it off. But you talked about this, the sleeve, right? The, the concept of like, well, what if clear, the UFOs are physical crafts. What if the people piloting them are just, they are demonic characters. But the, the occultists found a way to create a sleeve for them to interact with in the physical world, right? It's, it's a, it's a host organic material body that they can actually. Because clearly they can overtake the faculties of our organic material body and puppet to tear us around and throw us against walls and make our heads turn around backwards and you know what I'm saying? And like they can clearly do demonic things with our physical reality. So we know that they can create Android like bodies with, with lab grown materials. So it's not out of the realm of even modern science to say that the occult and the, the shadow governments of the world have already created a host body for demons to try to interact in the physical world.

[Top]

Again, biomechanical.

[Raven]

Can I ask you a question and maybe David could actually like bring bring about this point a little bit more clear. Why in, why in Jeffrey Epstein email is he talking to somebody asking him to create debate talking points that differentiate aliens from demons?

[Top]

This is, this is really.

[Sean]

I didn't hear about that yet.

[Top]

So Jeffrey Epstein in these, in these files, and you have to take these with the grain of salt right now.

[Raven]

We are not saying he was on an island.

[Top]

I'm not saying that. No, no, was on an island. I'm more concerned with the people who are also carrying water for this narrative. So in this file, one of these email files, it's an exchange between Epstein and, and Lawrence Krauss. And what he's asking Lawrence Krauss to do is to create a debate, an argument. It seems that Epstein is wanting to diffuse any connection between three things. Specifically he says aliens, ghosts. Which ghosts I would say are demonic entities. Masquerading disembodied somethings. Disembodied. Some things demonic in nature though I would say sure. Masquerading as loved ones, masquerading as lost children, you know, you name it. And the third element is out of body experiences which if you remember to the debate that we had, there was a lot of conversation about near death experiences where people are going, is it the spiritual realm? What is the spiritual realm? Where are these prophets having these experiences? Is it in a dream state? What does that state look like? And he's trying desperately, he's asking him to create a debate, to separate these things. Why would you ever want to separate them when there is so much in common, there's so much overlap between the spaces that these things happen in, the sensations that one goes through, the patterns that emerge from one experience to the next?

[Raven]

You have to. You have to. If you, if you want to deceive what's coming, the people from what is coming, if you don't want them to think along these lines, along these spiritual, biblical lines, then when, when I present you with biblical fact, you have to deny it along scientific terms. This is the position that he was put in by people who were dumb.

[Top]

Yeah. And look, I gotta address it, too. I see somebody in the chat says, I suggest you people not slander Tim. We've only said exactly what has happened. And it's not anything that I've not said directly to him. I'm asking questions. I'm not saying he's knowingly running some narrative that Epstein is also concerned with. I'm saying, what is the birth of this idea and why does it lead to a place where not only is Epstein curious and vested in achieving the same argument, success in the same argument, let's separate these elements. And why is Albarino saying it? And does it have anything to do with the fact that it seems that Epstein also was very interested in UAP disclosure? That's something that we've been talking about on the show. It's something that's come out through the files. And Albarino is finding himself as maybe, let's say it looks like he could be some sort of representative of Christianity to help Christians understand this thing. Because he's got, you know, he's got a billionaire backer, which is not at all a condemnation. Somebody with money is fascinated in your work. Well, lucky you. You must be doing a good job, right? I don't know. Somebody thinks you're doing a good job and they have money. But if that person wants to see a specific angle take place in. In UAP disclosure, and let's say that person is maybe exhausted a little bit with the old guard of superstitious people that are calling this demons and devils and would love for somebody who's charismatic, who's well spoken, who's respected in the community to express their already, you know, preconceived notions of these things are not demons. Well, maybe you would help that guy. That's not a. That's not. That's not even a conspiratorial thing. That's just like how a relationship works, right? You've got a buddy, he's a billionaire. He probably knows a guy or two in this space or that space. Maybe he can get you on the Sean Ryan show. Who the hell knows? It doesn't have to be a nefarious plot. The billionaire backer doesn't even have to have a nefarious agenda. You might just be carrying water for a thing that's nature you don't understand. And, and, and you should look over maybe and see that Epstein is trying to formulate the same argument that you're going around making. You know, making the rounds on various podcasts, doing.

[Sean]

I will say.

[Raven]

Hold on a second.

[Top]

Why am I saying that?

[Raven]

I'd like to address the. The chat if we want to talk. We can't understand him long enough to understand his faith level, to find out his faith level. I don't know. He's the kind of guy that just tells everybody not to associate with us because he's already judged our faith level and he already knows exactly who I am.

[Top]

He's called. He said we're not Christians. He's warned people. He's called other content creators.

[Raven]

So that ship has sailed. Now we're just going to say what he told us in the interview.

[Sean]

By the way, everything. Everything that we're talking about is in their interview with him. This is kind of like this part of the conversation is kind of a recapping what he admitted publicly, which is why it threw it through people, like, sideways. Like, wait a minute. What. How. How are you making the statement as a Christian, as someone that goes to first Enoch, as someone that's just talking about this this whole time, and now you're making these statements that these are not spiritual entities, that they're all physical, material entities. Like, this is a very naturalistic evolutionary view, a modern, scientific view. And this is not like a biblical view, which you have throughout your career promoted yourself to be telling a biblical view. And so it's very confusing.

[Raven]

It's one I disagree with. It's. He disagrees with our view on this, and that's fine. But again, we didn't seek out the argument or the. Or the debate. This person did. So now we will just. Now we'll talk about it and.

[Sean]

You guys ever heard of Rob Skiba?

[Top]

Oh, yeah, we're actually going to. We're gonna be on his son's show soon.

[Sean]

Okay, cool. Yeah.

[Matt]

Jeremiah the nation.

[Top]

Yes, Cuba Nation. Before we depart from this, though, I just want to say I don't really care about Timothy Alvarino I care about a dangerous narrative. I want people to be prepared. I agree with whether it was Tom Horn or Steve Quill who said this. This is the great deception in, in my estimation, this is one of the biggest deceptions that mankind is ever going to be subjected to. They've been using Hollywood propaganda for, for generations. They've been propped up, you know, with, with NASA and all these Nazi scientists from Operation Paperclip. I think the first, the fruits of all of these things that take place in, in like 47 and, and the early 50s are this thing that they're aiming at. All I care is about people being grounded in the truth, people being grounded in Christ, people not falling for some Pleiadian Christ or some New Age Christ or some Christ consciousness or something like that. And, and, and certainly not being deceived with this advanced Space Brothers narrative that maybe Hollywood wants to serve us up. And it just so happens that Albarino is a guy that got on my radar who is saying things that lead to those ideas. And I've got a real problem with that. And then when I try to press him on it, he just makes himself look bad. He just speaks almost virtually uninterrupted for two and a half hours. And everybody overwhelmingly comes away not knowing what this guy is saying. And then he denounces us, says that we're not Christians, calls us demons and all this other crazy crap. And we've not even said that. I've not even said that he's a fed or an operative or that he's working with Epstein or some crazy crap like that, or that you shouldn't look at his work. I've not said that. I think he's got a lot of interesting things to offer. You shouldn't look at any one individual as an authority and the end all be all on any of these topics because they're rather intangible and difficult to understand and multifaceted and complex. Go and look at his stuff. But it's strange to me that after a bad showing, he starts making calls. He starts reaching out to people, telling them, if you associate with them, I'm not going to associate with you. He starts making filibuster posts on Twitter. He's in our comment section freaking out after he blocks us and we can't even engage with him. But he's doing these giant walls of text, you know, just dismissing us, saying that we're not Christian, saying if you associate with us that you're on the wrong path and this and that. That's all strange behavior to me. The only thing that I'm sure of in all of this is that it's all bizarre. And I don't have any answers. I don't know what to make of it, but it's bizarre.

[Sean]

This bizarre. And Brother Timothy, if you're listening to this. Hi, I'm Sean. Nice to meet you. I would love to invite you to a formal debate with the neutral moderator. We can talk about this topic. Are aliens demonic or are they materialistic? And I'd love to give you a fair shot, a fair shake with the neutral moderator with plenty of time, segments uninterrupted for you, uninterrupted for me to present our points. We have a moderator back and forth across a civil, loving discussion. I don't get mad. I don't get, I don't demonize you. And you can, you can repair some of this perceived reputation damage that's going on here with this topic, with that actual debate. So I just want to invite you to that. You're welcome to contact me kingdom of context gmail.com. i'd love to set that up. So, guys, I, I, I find it fascinating though, that.

[Matt]

Bro, I respect that a lot. Sorry to cut you off. I respect that a lot. The way you just did that. You're a solid dude. You're a professional. You're calm, cool collective. You're intelligent.

[Raven]

Like, are you taking shots at us, man?

[Matt]

I would love to see that. No, I'm just saying, like, this whole thing sucks, bro. With the dude Alberino.

[Raven]

It does sucks.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Matt]

I would love to see a dude like Sean who talks like clean and clear, calm like that and very intelligent and understanding of the Greek and the Hebrew languages and extra biblical tests text and clearly biblical text and talk through this. I would love to see that. I would have loved to see it when it was on our show. That would have been incredible. But we didn't get that opportunity. And that would be rad if the world got to see that, man. I respect that a lot.

[Raven]

It's what we were trying to do. But reach out, like, I guess we're not smart enough.

[Top]

No, we're definitely not. No business debating anybody. I was just the one contentious point that I was super confused about.

[Raven]

But you try to take down Timothy Alvarino by letting him talk unfettered for two hours.

[Top]

How dare you.

[Raven]

You're a real piece of work, Christian.

[Sean]

I know.

[Top]

I'm saying I'm sorry. In hindsight, that was the wrong thing to do. I should have interrupted.

[Sean]

So, so here's the crazy part. What? When do you guys think that they're going to disclose actual. We've been interacting with aliens. I'm sorry, two part question. When do you think they're going to do official disclosure? To where? Like, press conference. This dude's like, here with us. He's. He's real, right? And two, is it going to be a new narrative, like, he just showed up, or is it going to be he's been here for a while, we're just finally telling you about it.

[Top]

It's. It's hard to say when because we've all been waiting for a long time. I've been, you know, sort of an unhinged schizo in this space since like 2006. And back then I was late to the game. Right? There are people that have been waiting for it for a long time, since before me. So it's kind of bold to say that we're at the precipice of that now. I would say that the Epstein files, what's happening right now is we're meant to get them sleuth through them, have the most compelling narratives rise to the surface because of our own falling for the trap of sleuthing through the DOJ related documents. And the public has to get acclimated for that. So there's going to be a period of time, podcasters going to have it first. Eventually the narratives will form themselves. They'll go to the mainstream media. The average person who's not in the know will gain access to this information in a more cohesive kind of manner where the story's fleshed out. And then after that, we probably still have to see a series of things. I think what's likely going to happen is we'll see. I'm not trying to black pill. That's. This is not at all a fear thing. Right. My hope is not in the world, it's in Jesus Christ. I'm not afraid of these things happening. So the world is worlding, no big deal. It's been doing that. But I do think that the American dollar will fall away and there will probably be like a nuclear skirmish of some sort between maybe like an Iran or Israel. And this is not really like, these are just things that I imagine we'll see something that rhymes with this, that nuclear interaction will be thwarted by the heroic forces that are the aliens, and they'll reveal themselves that way. And it'll be that narrative of humanity needs to mature and rise up. But you've been obstructed by these nefarious forces that have taken place in various power structures in your world. We're here to remove that. You've seen that, by the way, with the Epstein files. They're drinking baby blood. They're doing X, Y and Z. That's the old guard. They're out. I don't know the time frame on that process. That's really hard to say. I'd say.

[Raven]

I'd say by 2030.

[Top]

You think so?

[Raven]

I mean, there's been a lot of, you know, the Agenda 2030 has been kind of a topic of discussion for a long time, and it's something that we've forgotten since after the pandemic and all that. But that, that date is still on the table for me, and we still have four years until then, so I'm giving them four years to do that. As far as will they present themselves as, like, we've been here for a long time, I don't think.

[Top]

Well, they're talking about a. A craft that's so big they couldn't move it that they had to build a building around. So Burleson is saying that it's implied that they've been here, but I guess they could say that, or they could.

[Raven]

Say, oh, we just saw what you were doing the last hundred years and stopped you. I don't know how they. They frame that narrative of, yeah, yeah, we've been watching you guys for centuries, millennia, and say that they're not the gods of old. Because this. That's a hard thing propaganda campaign that we've run up against is kind of pushing against that idea of, are these the gods of old? Like, that's kind of what I'm asking.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Isn't that the entire ancient aliens narrative on the history?

[Top]

Well, I think maybe then what that does is it says, yeah, gods of old. Pantheon, not monotheism, not Jesus Christ. They'll probably explain Jesus in a Pleiadian way. He was an asserted master.

[Raven]

That's a hard.

[Top]

Yeah, I think that's what they do. They go, he's an ascended master. Everybody has that ability. Buddha was also one of those characters. You reach a certain stage of enlightenment, lean on your own intellect, your own understanding, and you can ascend and become as, you know, whatever gods. And so I think they probably acknowledge Christ because they have to, but they repackage him in a way that new age people, sci fi enjoyers, will find more palatable. And then Christians who aren't grounded well enough in their faith will look at that and be like, okay, so Christ was real. That's what all the texts were based off of. But we were just kind of dealing with people using limited language to be able to explain something. And so they missed the mark. I get it now. He just wears a blue suit and silver boots. And so that's why a few weeks.

[Matt]

Ago, you had brought it up and made a big point about the fact that he's a Jewish man.

[Raven]

Right. That's important as well.

[Matt]

Identity matters.

[Top]

Yes. He's from the line of David. And, and what's important right now is there is a. A turning of people noticing, like the Jews and all their crimes, which, if you go through the Bible, you know, Israel is. Is constantly falling away and coming back.

[Raven]

And falling away, constantly doing crimes.

[Top]

So, you know, nothing new there. But that's God's chosen people. And if there's a remnant of that body within, you know, whoever is pretending to be Jewish or otherwise, that's God's people. That's God's problem. But there's this thing that's happening on Twitter where they're engineering people to turn and look at the Jews as if they're the adversaries. They've been cast out of 109, 110 times, yada, yada. They're the ones that commit all the crime. They own the. This, you know, nefarious company, the pornography, which.

[Matt]

Not to go off on a rabbit trail, but we talked about this. I don't know if it was a show yesterday or two days ago or whatever, but just that, like, that's a new phenomenon, dude. Like, like in a coffee shop, we talk about being the canary in the coffee shop. And like society by what gets brought up.

[Raven]

Just Israel being phenomenon.

[Matt]

Nobody today, right?

[Raven]

Not in general.

[Top]

Oh, not in general.

[Matt]

I'm just saying in general, like, it wasn't a thing that was pushed on people, like through the Internet, through YouTube and through whatever. Not.

[Raven]

Not in our generation. But yeah, in 109 other instances.

[Matt]

I'm just making a point. Like three years ago, nobody came into the coffee shop and talked about that. Starting two years ago, everybody started to talk about.

[Top]

Well, now the big.

[Sean]

In fact, after you guys just said that, I got a notification from my bank. It looks like $7,000 was deducted from my bank.

[Top]

It actually just went to us. God bless Israel. So I think the straw that's going to break the camel's back may well be the Epstein thing, if not a nuclear fallout between Israel and Iran.

[Matt]

What you think it's like right now it's like.

[Top]

Well, because the Epstein thing within the Files is. Is it. Is the G word a slur? I don't know what the rules are with YouTube.

[Raven]

Just don't say it.

[Top]

Okay, I'm not gonna say it, but, like, you know what? What?

[Matt]

Gentiles.

[Top]

Not gentiles. It's like.

[Matt]

It's like that, though.

[Top]

Chef Goyard, you know, something like that. So anyway, they say that Epstein says that he calls, you know, non Jews that over and over again. He says they're just slaves meant to serve Israel. It's just meant to get people to this critical mass where finally the crimes of the Jews are overwhelming. And then we have a nation's turn on all Israel type of situation. Especially if they go after Iran and there's a nuclear war fallout.

[Raven]

Let me just say, man, I don't want to cut David off because you can go on and speculate for forever and ever.

[Top]

I feel like I just, like, schizo wove a web.

[Raven]

Well, because you go in one direction and you're like, if I was a pedophile elite, I can go this way, that way, this way. And it's like, honestly, when it comes down to it, you just kind of have to trust the holy. So you have to ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit and discernment. And for us, like, we say that we're r worded. And. And to me, that means that, like, I'm, like, I'm clear in a certain way where I'm not having any of these like, like presuppositions that are not from. I'm like. I'm focusing on God.

[Top]

I'm not dealing. I'm not leaning on my own intellect.

[Raven]

You can't.

[Top]

You can't.

[Sean]

And.

[Raven]

And in a way, people. The world will call you stupid. The world will call you what they call us.

[Sean]

If you're out of your mind, it's for the sake of Christ. Right? The world views you out of your mind.

[Raven]

Yeah, exactly.

[Top]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Sean]

I want that. I want that retard strength like Samson.

[Raven]

Yeah. Yes.

[Top]

By the way, people aren't going to look kindly upon Christians if Christian truly stood in the way of this utopia that these aliens have facilitated.

[Raven]

That's true, but I think the point is, is that, like, I don't know which way they're going to go with this. But what I do know is that I haven't been wrong yet. And I haven't been reading every single word of these files. I haven't been with my fingers on all of the political tangents that are going on. What I do is I trust the Holy Spirit, I ask to be filled with it and to be guided. And I ask for discernment. That's one of the things that I always want. Just the ability to know when BS is coming my way. And I've had pretty good success. I don't want to be like, it's not me at all. It's just something that I asked for. It's something that I want. And I think if we ask for that, we'll be guided in the right way and we won't be led astray, no matter what comes. Because I'm sure. I'm sure, like, whatever's coming, it's going to throw us a crazy curveball, like, something that none of us will see. If it's a great deception, there's no way I'm gonna be on top of all of it. There's just no way.

[Top]

Oh, no, dad. Definitely not.

[Matt]

I don't.

[Top]

It's not. It's not me. Not without God.

[Sean]

That's why I. I try to point people back to God's word, because I believe he has told us who these people are with a setting which we all live in, which. Which wipes away like 99 of the deception, in my opinion. And I know this is super controversial if you guys want to cut this part out. I don't know how much you talk about this in your channel or not, but that there is no possible way for an alien invasion. And all this fake disclosure and all this nonsense. If we live under a firmament and all this is just a false God perpetuating a narrative in a fictional reality mindset to where, like. So think about this. Like the ancient cultures, they all believed that we were enclosed by a firmament. They just describe it differently. Like, the Babylonians thought it was made of bricks. Right? Which sounds kind of laughable.

[Top]

Right?

[Sean]

Whereas Josephus describes it as a crystalline substance, like an arch, domed crystalline substance, which is. Seems to be what psalms and jobs and other. Other Amos and other place. Other descriptions of it seem to be as well. And.

[Matt]

I don't mean to cut off and be rude like that. I'm just new at podcasts, but I just want to make sure I'm tracking with this. And like. So would you say then that's like the floor of where God's at, though, that. That same thing you're describing?

[Sean]

Yeah. So imagine the biblical description is multiple layers of the word heaven. And Genesis 1, verse 8 described that the first time we get to introduce the word heaven, it is the name given to the structure called the Rakia. The firmament. So the word heaven, when we use the word heaven, it does denote a location, but it also denotes the actual name given to a structure. So imagine, Matt, if you built a house, you built a seven story house. And then when you're done, you step back and you say, oh, honey, look, I finished our collection of wood, nails and screws. No, you step back and you say, honey, look, I finished our home. Yeah, that's what Genesis 1:8 is doing. It looks at the structure that was put in place, which is the rekiya. And then God calls it the heaven, which encompasses both the earth and there's multiple layers of heaven above us which are Described like Deuteronomy 10:14. Yahweh is the God of the most high of the heaven, of the heavens. Right. There's multiple places in scripture where there's a multiple layers of heaven described. The Christians and the early Christians that I would lovingly, I would say early, you know, Hebrews as well. Judaism starts to reinterpret it differently, right? There's like, if you look in the Talmud, there's rabbis arguing about how many layers of heaven there are. And the, the traditional view was that there were seven total firmaments, right? And this is consistent with the Testament of Levi found amongst the dishy scrolls. That's a part of the testament of 12 patriarchs that was included in the Armenian canon. This is consistent even with Irenaeus in the second century. Irenaeus describes the creation with seven layers of heaven. And he, he tries to give a description of it as if it's the menorah turned upside down with the inner outer branches all creating seven different layers. And we're on the bottom layer. And the layer right above us is, is encompassed between layer one and two would be the water that's still up there that was separated on day two, the one that flooded down in Genesis 7:11, when the floodgates were open. That's where the water came from. There's still water above it. Psalm 148. 4. There's still water there, like a barrier between us and the light of the sun and the moon coming through it, which I think is a wonderful buffer for the strength of the sun's light, by the way. But that's a whole physics thing. And then the layer above that would be where you have the sun and the moon. And then the layers above that you have different layers of angelic habitations leading up to the seventh layer, which is where the throne of the Most High is. And so this is why? When it says the heavens plural, opened at Christ baptism, this is a significant event. When it talks about revelation that explained.

[Top]

Sean.

[Raven]

Yeah. That's a fantastic. And it didn't take you 45 minutes. I. I got a question.

[Sean]

That's what. That's why they call me the firm mentalist.

[Top]

It's so crazy, because the idea that we could. You could just take it upon yourself to explain something so complex and take three minutes.

[Raven]

Well, it means you understand it.

[Top]

That's the mark of understanding.

[Sean]

I've done whole debates with pastors on this topic because it's so. It's over 500 times. It's mentioned, described, and explained in Scripture everywhere. Where.

[Raven]

Where is it mentioned that there are 12 doors on. Around the Earth?

[Top]

Yeah. That's fascinating. The winds.

[Sean]

First Enoch, chapter 72 through 82, it talks about the. The. The sun, moon, and stars and their. You know, how they move in the firmament above us and shine down upon the different courses and seasons they go through. Then it also talks about the winds and how the winds are let in. So imagine your cardinal directions, east, northwest, and south, but doing so from a flat. You know, like a flat topographical circle of Earth that's enclosed by a firmament. And then on the east, west, north, and south sides of the firmament, there's three portals on each cardinal direction, totaling 12. And depending on the seasons of the year, one of those three portals in each of the four quadrants is opened, allowing different winds in. And the angels are in control of this. Like they're controlling the whole system.

[Matt]

Yeah, Job. I think somewhere in Job, it talks about, like, the treasuries or the storehouses of the winds.

[Raven]

Some.

[Sean]

Something like that as well, because it literally is outside. In the same way, there's a. The whole compartment. In Job, I think it's chapter 38, verse 22, where it talks about the storehouses of hail used for the day of battle, which we see used In Joshua chapter 10, by the way, when Yahweh rains down hell and kills more Amorites than the Israelites even did.

[Top]

That's becoming a flat Earther.

[Raven]

I know. You just.

[Top]

I love this.

[Matt]

We're talking about flat earth right now.

[Sean]

See, that. That's. That's the psyop. The word flat earth is the psyop. Because when you Google that, it shows you a disc of earth with water falling off of it. It. In space. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, the whole thing is a misdirect because it's showing you the wrong setting for what the Bible describes. The Bible describes a seven story house with two basements. Basement 1 and 2 Sheolan Tartars pillars.

[Matt]

That's an interesting thing brought up.

[Raven]

It mimics. It mimics the idea of New Jerusalem as well. Like the 12 gates that are around New Jerusalem. Although New Jerusalem is a cube which is I guess maybe this plane is also square.

[Sean]

Right?

[Raven]

I don't know.

[Sean]

Yeah. The. The New Jersey is described as a. The size of a small continent. Like 1500 miles length width and height. And it comes down sits between Euphoria's on the Nile. And if that were sitting on top of a ball with a 4000 mile radius as we're told it you wouldn't be able to walk up to the gates of the city because they would be 121 miles off the curvature of the earth from a four square city sitting down. So it would. It would have to like drill down into. It would knock the earth off its axis. Like there would be a whole problem like physics all of the heliocentric math that goes into the garbage can. The moment the New Jerusalem comes down all the satellites would just run into the side of the New Jerusalem because they're only 200 miles up at most. Some of them are you know like it. Like the. None of it makes any sense guys.

[Top]

The.

[Sean]

The. The eschatology. This is why when I have pastors on an interview them and do debates and stuff I always try to get them to talk to me about their eschatology. Because it's a heavily overlooked topic in Christendom is people like you've got amillennialism, you got premill, you've got predatorism and you've got all this different argumentation points but they never talk about the reality of Ezekiel 37 and Revelation 21 says that Yahweh's house is going to descend and sit on the earth. Like that's a big big deal. Like that's the conclusion of the story is that the Creator who made us is going to come down here and dwell amongst mankind. That's the promise of the kingdom come. Right. So if that's the case is it a literal kingdom? Is the spiritual. Is it a spiritual kingdom? Can it physically interact with the material world? 100 that's the end of the story. Like it's intended to. You know like all nations will come to the New Jerusalem for free food and water and medicine. I got all the verses for that. If you know we can do a different show. The survivors of the day of the Lord come to it for Refuge so they can learn how to live in peace with one another. They beat their swords into plowshares like the. The whole thing is designed. The end of the story is the spiritual world fully integrates within our physical reality, in our layer of the firmament. The Father's house comes down. That's why in Second Corinthians, chapter 12:1, 3, when Paul talks about a man he knew who had a vision and went to the third heaven and saw paradise, that paradise is the same word used in Revelation 2 and Revelation 22 of the New Jerusalem is the word paradise he saw. And it's there, awaiting. Now here's where, here's where we've tried to like share with people and we're going to include this in our Days of Noah series. It's already, we already tease it in episode one. This, this thing I'm about to tell you is the Garden of Eden is the new Jerusalem in its, in its pre enhanced form. So the garden both. Yeah, so like the Garden of Eden. Remember in Genesis 3, 24, when they're kicked out of the garden and there's an angel set to guard the way to the Tree of Life so that.

[Matt]

They can't get down to his flaming sword?

[Sean]

Yeah. So that means if that angel wasn't there, they could get back to it, right?

[Top]

Yeah.

[Sean]

So that means it's still there on the ground. Yeah. Enoch. Well, in Enoch 65, I believe. Well, so between Jubilees and not consistently, it tells you that Enoch was taken into the garden where he would be kept away from the violence that was happening, to write down the condemnation of what was going on leading up to the flood. And then, you know, Jubilee7 tells you he did die before the flood. He's not living forever inside. But the point is, what I'm getting at is the garden was still on the ground after Adam and Eve were kicked out up to the flood. And this is what I, I try to do a whole show where I try to go through the timeline of the Garden of Eden. So people are always like, where's the Garden of Eden? They're going on, you know, the expeditions to South Africa. And you know, what was that one kick he said? Or that it was in Florida and all that stuff. And so the people are thinking it's the Garden of Eden's still on the earth somewhere. It's just been. It's just like Shangri La. It's just mystically hidden from reality. It's like, no, no, the Bible tells you it was on the ground. It got destroyed by the flood. Isaiah 49 and 54 talk about the details of Zion, how it's overcome with storm, tossed with waves, destroyed, desecrated. And then second Ezra, chapter seven, verse 26, literally tells you it was withdrawn into heaven. And that's why in New Testament, Paul's talking about it being in the third heaven. And then Revelation, John's vision, Revelation, it comes down out of heaven again. It's the return. It's the return. It's just made bigger to accommodate for everyone that takes part in the first resurrection, who's going to inherit a spot in there. And then when it sets down, all the people that didn't take part in the first resurrection, Revelation 24:6, they're considered survivors of the nations who will come to it to learn God's ways, to stop warring with each other, to. To get free medicine from the leaves.

[Matt]

For the healing of the nations.

[Sean]

That's right, yeah. So if you're resurrected and glorified, Revelation 21:7, you've already received your inheritance inside the city. You don't need leaves for healing. You're perfected. You know what I mean?

[Top]

And in Enoch, which I had to listen to a bunch of times, so I never got the chapter, so I had to. I had to look it up because I tried to read it and I just, for whatever reason, couldn't focus. I found it on audiobook. And I remember hearing Enoch as, as he's being taken around by Raphael, that he's, you know, he's seeing all these different places. And I remember there being like a tree in the garden that he saw. And I remember being like, oh, did he see the garden? And I'm looking at it here, and it describes it as the garden of righteousness is Enoch 24, 25, and then 30, 31, it includes the Tree of Knowledge. So do you take that to mean that he. He saw the. The garden and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil?

[Sean]

Yes. And then the Tree of life had already been transplanted at that time. So, yeah, he's taken and shown in his tour of all creation. Throughout the different passages of Enoch, he's also shown the garden. That's where he spent the 300 years with the angels of God, protected. This is what we've tried to show the Greek and like Hebrews 11, 5. And it talks about Enoch was transferred so he wouldn't see death. It doesn't mean he was already given his resurrection body before Christ. Christ was the first fruits of the promise of the resurrection. Right. He was taken into the. If you have jubilees, the ancient Israelite writings that give you the extra details which other Christians have in their canon throughout history. You would have the. The background knowledge of what happened with Enoch, where he went, and why. In First Enoch, I think it's chapter 65, Noah goes to the edge of the garden and speaks with Enoch, because Noah just had a vision that terrified him about the coming flood.

[Matt]

So, okay, so like, Enoch and Elijah, like. Like, to your point, nobody could have a glorified body, resurrected body before Jesus because he's the first fruits. So you're saying those dudes are just chilling in the garden?

[Sean]

No, Enoch died before the flood. That was his purpose. To be taken in the garden, to. To be a scribe, to write down the. The deeds of wickedness happening on the earth, to be a condemnation against mankind for the flood, for the legal validation of the flood. And then Elijah was just taken by a chariot to a different location. This, again goes into the definition of heaven, right? It says he was taken with the chairs up into heaven, but that's just the sky, because you're not going above the firmament. Right. Mankind cannot live above the firmament. First Enoch 15 talks about this.

[Top]

Is it.

[Raven]

Is it also, like, biblical to say. Because when we did read. Read about Elijah, seems like the dude was moving around a lot. Like, people weren't sure where he was or if he just bounced at some point.

[Top]

Yeah. Either he was running away or he was being like, supernaturally.

[Matt]

Yeah. When he does get taken up, the sons of the prophets are arguing with Elisha. They're like, no, no. They just. God just took them and put them on some other mountain.

[Top]

He does that.

[Matt]

And there was another place. I think one of the. Like, a. Like a good servant in Ahab's household was like, no, hey. He said, okay, go tell Ahab I'm here. He said, no, no, I'm gonna do that. And then the Lord's gonna pick you up and take you somewhere.

[Top]

Right.

[Matt]

And then I'm gonna look like an idiot when you come back. He's gonna kill me.

[Raven]

So, like, he had a proclivity to just.

[Top]

He's like, you do that thing, dude.

[Matt]

And I'm not gonna alluding to it, that, yeah, God would move them around or something.

[Raven]

What an interesting character. Right?

[Sean]

Yeah. So I'm gonna put this on screen real quick. This is a show I did on Elijah. I did two different separate shows. One, you knock on Elijah, because these are the. The two characters always brought up when this discussion happens. As far as, did anyone partake? Did anyone go to heaven before Christ resurrected and ascended back to heaven? Because you got conflicts with John, chapter three, if so, and then if who. And did anyone get the resurrected, glorified body before Christ did? Because then you got conflicts with First Corinthians 6:15, if so. Right. So. But in most Christian churches, it's taught that, oh, Enoch and Elijah never die. They're just taken to heaven and they're just chilling up there. But I don't think that's what the Scriptures are saying. So I did a whole show on both of these characters. This one is the one I did on Elijah, and I put together a timeline that basically I tried to go through the Scriptures to show the kings that reigned during the days of Elijah and Elisha, when Elisha leaves with the chariots of fire, versus when you get that letter later, Elijah's letter, that happens later to Jehoram, which basically meant he was still alive. So the point I'm trying to show is basically the Scriptures.

[Top]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt]

Because there's actually a. There's actually a letter from Elijah.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Matt]

They're saying that's after he got taken up. So he did just get taken up and just took somewhere else, but was still walking around the earth.

[Sean]

That's right. He was still there. He just died in peace. He died out of the spotlight. Because Elisha took over. Right. Because, you know, Elisha asked for double the. Double the portion. He's now. He was trained for 20 years by Elijah. He takes over, but Elijah goes and just retires in peace, basically. But yet about 10 years later, sends a letter of reprimand, which is which.

[Matt]

I mean, that's what he asked for, too. It was like God.

[Raven]

Oh, did he ask for death or did he ask to be taken?

[Matt]

Yeah, I mean, he has to get taken out. You know, whatever.

[Sean]

Remember, he was. He was. There was so much turmoil with, you know, Ahab and Jezebel and all that stuff. He was being hunted and at various times. And so I think he just went to retire in seclusion. But also In Hebrews, chapter 11, it directly tells you, you know, the hall of faith. Right. Hebrews chapter 11, verses 1 through 37, talks about all these incredible men and women of the scripture who gave their life for. For as verse 35 says, the greater resurrection. The hope of a greater resurrection.

[Matt]

Right.

[Sean]

They're willing to go to torturous deaths and martyrdom for the sake of the promise of the covenant, which is the resurrection to eternal life. Then in verse 39 and 40, at the very end of the chapter, it says, all these referring back to everyone it just previously mentioned have not been perfected, have not taken taken part in this yet without us, but together with us will be perfected it because this is why we try to share with people like the, the moment you get your incorruptible glorified body at the, at the first resurrection is at the seventh trumpet. It's a one off moment. It's at the second coming of Christ. You don't have a whole bunch of glorified people already just chilling everywhere. Like it's all, it's all. The first resurrection is a big deal taught in Scripture and it all happens on one day at the second coming of Christ. And that's, and there's multiple reasons for that scripturally. And so this is one of the things we talk about often on our channel is the details of the first resurrection and how it's, you know, it's overlooked. Just like the New Jerusalem. It's an overlooked topic of discussion. And when I interview pastors on the channel, they have all different interpretations of the first resurrection and like a bunch.

[Top]

Of different versions of it, like from one pastor to the next. It's not a cohesive.

[Sean]

Yeah, yeah. And, and no one knows like what they like the ontological change. Like you don't, we don't get back this, this decaying temple of doom. Like we get an actual glorified body. You know, that's that the same as like Jesus exemplified. Right. He is our forerunner as First Corinthians talks about. Right. Chapter 15. And, and so this is why like all these details matter when it comes to, you know, how God is going to come to the earth and establish peace and put the devil in a hole for thousand years and throw the unclean spirits in lake of fire. And, and all these details that, that a lot of them, not a lot of them, but some significant aspects of those details are given to us in books like Jubilees and Enoch that were a part of the ancient literature. Did you guys know that? Like it's wild. There's an 8th century historian named George Sinkellos who was a Greek historian who's trying to make a chronographia. It's like the first history book he's trying to make in the 8th century AD and he actually leans upon the book of Jubilees for his history. Isn't that crazy? Okay, so. And specifically for pre flood information, you know, because Jubilees goes into greater depth than even Enoch does when it tries to break down the three different types of Nephilim that were around during those days. And then how Noah reacted after the flood, when now the, the unclean spirits were still here, the disembodied nephilim were still here. And in chapter 10 directly, Coral gives you the direct explanation as Noah is praying to God, asking for help against these things, saying, these are the sons of your watchers. And, and these came from before the flood and they're still here after the flood and they're causing my sons and daughters to sin and to go into warfare and I need help. You know, I mean, like, it's a direct connection before pre and post flood to what these unclean spirits are, how they were infecting mankind before the flood and how they're affecting mankind after the flood. And without that information, the average Christian is truly lost when it comes to this spiritual battle. That's why this deception is so big in our day.

[Top]

That's what was so amazing to me was that it was, it was an aspect of Christianity, Christianity I was not familiar with whatsoever. And through my conspiracy research, I became really comfortable with the idea of, you know, these various pantheons. And I wasn't somebody that interpreted these things as, like, strictly symbolic because it just didn't seem. Seem that way. It didn't seem that way based on the people and the culture. It didn't seem that way based off of what I was seeing even in modern day. Right. It seemed like there was still the worship of these entities and that they were very real. Whether or not they were flesh and blood today, you know, was. Was up for debate, but I could see their presence in their fingerprint. And I, I didn't, I wasn't looking to Christianity for a frame of reference on those entities. And then when I came to Christianity, I came in through like a Michael Heiser worldview. I came in through the idea of the nephilim. That was always my framework over these last years. I don't know five years or so of how to look at this entire phenomenon. And so it's strange to me actually, to be new in my walk and new to my understanding of Christianity, but then to turn to people who have been, you know, seminary school, what have you raised in the church, Always been a part of it. So much vastly more adept in Scripture than I am, it feels like I couldn't close the gap. But they disagree with this, which to me, I'm like, this is a fundamental piece. Without this, the lens doesn't work.

[Raven]

It was always my hold up as, like a, as a Christian, a younger Christian in the church. There like things in the Bible where you ask the pastor the Bible, the Bible school teacher, and they don't have adequate answers. And I'm like, well, that's just not good enough for me, and I'm out.

[Sean]

Yeah, I think I shared that with you guys. That was part of my story. Many years, like, 15 years ago, I was going to not only the church I was going to, but other because I used to live in Tulsa, Oklahoma. There's megachurches everywhere, a lot of churches. It's the Bible Belt. And not only did the church I was going to, I would make weekly appointments with multiple assistant pastors to ask them Bible questions, like between Sundays, but I would go to other churches and make appointments with those pastors at different. Like, because I was going to a Methodist church. And then I would, like, go make appointments with the Presbyterian pastor and the Baptist pastor. Like, I would go to these other people to try to say, ask them these biblical questions, many of them about the Nephilim. And I started hearing all these different answers, and some of them just basically would just honestly say, you know, I just don't know, you know, And I'm sitting there going, forgive, Forgive my, my negative reaction, sir, but it says it right here. Like, like, and, and by the way, there is a. When we, you know, Even back in 2012, 2013, like, there were online resources for looking up what the, you know, lexiconical resources, looking up the definition of words, right? So I would, I would be like, but, but the definition of the word says this. Like, so why, why are we not taking this seriously?

[Matt]

Those are the worst conversations where you're like, you know what? You're not a bad dude, bro, but why don't you go work at Walmart? Like, like, why are you in the pulpit? You know what I'm saying? And not to say that any of us knows everything and we're not still learning. Like, amen. Why, hopefully we're all still learning all the way to the end. But some of this basic stuff, I've had those same conversations with pastors where I'm like, bro, you should just be a greeter at Walmart.

[Top]

Well, you know what it is? It frames a fundamental problem. The fundamental problem is from, from, from my perspective, being outside of religion, growing up, I would say, well, they can't all be true, right? Or, or they're all claiming to be true and the other one's not true. And, and this one's saying, I have the truth and the other ones aren't true. And, and so, but what happens when you have this. This frame, it's like, oh, no, they were all right. They were just. The other ones were wrong about the nature of the things that they were worshiping. And. And that was like a real eureka moment, right, where it's like, you're worshiping this pantheon. Well, it's like. It's not like the Bible says that's not real. And Christianity is the only thing that's real. But that's how modern day Christians act, right? That's how a lot of people are going about this whole thing is like, well, the Greek pantheon, that's not a real thing at all. This is just mythology. And I go, but they built and dedicated cities and cultures and unbelievable swaths of time and text to these things. Worship and dedication. And you do that with the Vedic pantheon, and you do that with, you know, the. The Sumerians and. And, you know, the Mayans and the Aztecs and on and on and on. How could that thing that was erected in honor of these things. And then I look at Christianity and what's been erected in honor of Jesus Christ, and I go, they did. They've done the same thing here. So is that the mark of truth is how much time a people is willing to dedicate to a thing? And then it's like, once you have that and you go, no, they dedicated it to these things because they were duped into worshiping false gods. False gods that were real, that were fallen angels. They were duped into worshiping demigods that are. That are Nephilim. All of that start. It pulls it all together, and it's like, I. I feel almost terrible. I don't understand how you can go, I'm not saying, like, you can't find meaning in Jesus unless, like, you have this part of the lens. It's just like the worldview becomes so, in my opinion, rich and obvious. Once you have that piece to pull it all together does really pull together. Everything from every, you know, people of.

[Raven]

Antiquity goes back to the initial question that you asked him to start the show was, who do you think is better off? Do you think this person is in good standing? The one that's great. We call it Grandma Max.

[Top]

Oh, yeah.

[Raven]

The thing and goes demonic. Don't really need to know more about this. I'm gonna put my faith in Jesus Christ. Have a good night, guys. Or. And. And on the other side of it, you have researchers. Well, like, sort of like us, but definitely like you, who are like, I'm gonna. I need to know. Exactly. Yeah.

[Top]

You know, the Other thing too, without it is if you're not Christian, let's say you're newly aspiring pagan, you're getting into wickedness, or you're, you're unironically worshiping the, the Norse, you know, pantheon or something like that, which is very popular now. Everybody's got rune tattoos and everybody's unironically worshiping Odin and Thor and, and you adhere to that thing and you go, the other ones aren't real. And Jesus Christ, definitely not real, but this thing is real. Maybe you had an experience.

[Matt]

Well, there's a weird thing happening today too. There used to be like a lot more atheists, bro.

[Top]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt]

Now there's not like, that's not a thing. Like, it's the craziest thing. It used to be everybody was an atheist and then that's not it. It's like somehow, however they push the narratives and stuff, they shifted the narrative from being an atheist to like believing in the. What do you call the Palladians and stuff?

[Top]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like a new age.

[Matt]

Yeah. Like the shift happened.

[Raven]

Now the shift is after Covid, I think a lot of people got a good look at evil and they said, well, there better be something else.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

And so now if you're an atheist still, I just think you're not thinking at all. There are a couple. But.

[Top]

Well, it does lead to this really fantastic question though. If you have that lens once again of like the nephilim and the fallen, where it's like, okay, the Pleiadians show up. Now I have to ask myself, like, oh, what's the nature of these things? Are they like, like fallen angels or like nephilim or like some sort of hybrid thing? Because it. And then you start looking into it. It's like, well, they have a hybridization program. They seem to be really obsessed with human genetics. Right. They seem to flee at the name of Christ. Okay, okay, cool. Gotcha. I know what that is now.

[Sean]

So what you talked about earlier, about there's people like us that interested in this, we look into this. There is a unique rub that's happening in Christian, or at least my experience in Christendom, where you're having seminary trained pastors come up being told a certain narrative of theology and history that leaves a huge open gap for this deception to fall into. Meanwhile, their major priority, they're being taught is church administration and church growth. So they're, they're being taught, how do we grow the church versus is our doctrine on point? Like, are we actually making sense with what we're teaching because they can just, you know, I'm not trying to be derogatory towards them. This just is the natural outflow of how this happens. They just kind of broad stroke the difficult questions away to say, well, look, we're really. Where are you serving today in the church? And don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing it. Go serve at your local church. Be a part of their lay ministries. Be a part of helping people get your hands and feet busy, actually doing something to help the body of believers. But there are a lot of people sitting in the pews that want to know the details so that it's all as cohesive and makes sense. This big story, right? And without that, you get. You just get kind of like, oh, yeah, we're excited. We, you know, we did 10 more baptisms this week or we'd had. You know, I used to, when I was in high school, I went to a Baptist church that had this little board on the, on the wall that said, how many people got saved in the last month? You know, and I was just like, okay, that's cool. But, you know, the vast majority of the people that were sitting in the crowd, they're out the lake on the weekends getting drunk and fooling around. You know, I mean, like, so, yeah, it's. It's a balance, right? Of like, get involved in the church, your local church, your community, try to help be a part of something. But at the same time, that doesn't mean we just slack off on doctrine. So in the book of Acts, I can't remember if it's chapter five or chapter six, all the. The apostles from chapter two, plus the 120, plus a whole bunch of other people. Remember they're adding to their number daily. And then they started. I can't remember exactly the passage Matt may remember, they were regulating several of them to just be teachers. And they were devoted. After they pulled their resources together, they set aside like six or seven guys to just study.

[Matt]

Oh, you're talking about when the Greek widows were being neglected, the Hebrew widows were getting their stuff. And then the apostles said, hey, we can't stop, like, doing what we're doing to deal with somebody. Somebody's got to do it. But we can't stop because we have to attend to the ministry of the Word and prayer. And then they said, so we got to get some people to oversee this. Let's go get the local wealthy car dealership owner. Let's get him, put him in term. Let's make him an elder no, they said they got to be full of wisdom and full of the Holy Ghost. And they said then they can do that stuff that matters, but we have to stay in the word in prayer. Dude, that. The reason that's, like, so meaningful to me is because I met a leader at a. Like, I don't know how this happened. When I first started to go to the 501C3 system, they let me go to, like, the youth camp and be a. Be, like, a youth camp leader or whatever.

[Sean]

So then I saw one of the.

[Matt]

Leaders in the elevator one day, and. And it was a lady. I was like, oh, wow. So you're, like, in ministry.

[Top]

Like, you.

[Matt]

You, like, read the Bible and pray, like, that's, like, your whole life. She's like, yeah, it's not exactly like that. And then we were at this training thing the next day, and she's, like, talking about modern American 501c3 culture, which I don't care anything about, and she's saying, like, this is the right way to leave a church. This is the right way to act in a church. Like, this is how you do so you don't offend people. She goes, you know, a lot of people have this wrong idea about ministry, leadership. Like, the other day, I'm on the elevator, and this guy's like, oh, you're in the ministry?

[Top]

What do you do?

[Matt]

Just read a Bible and pray all day? And the room just erupted and laughter, bro. And I just kind of like, like, sunk down just like this. But I went back to that passage, and I was like, no, lady, the joke's not on me. The joke's on you. It's right there in the book.

[Top]

They laughed at you.

[Matt]

Yeah, it was. I mean, they didn't know it was me.

[Raven]

Was it the first time that people laughed at you?

[Matt]

No, I've been getting for a long time.

[Raven]

Not the last either, dog.

[Matt]

See what I got to deal with, Sean?

[Sean]

Now, I want to make a joke, but I don't know if you guys may be too young to get it. You guys remember Adam Sandler's initial comedy sketches? They're all gonna laugh at you. It's okay. That's some retro comedy. You guys can look up. It's great. Great sound bites. Yeah, this is hilarious. By the way, whoever's in the live chat, be aware of Turkey Mountain. When it gets dusk, all the gay people meet up there.

[Top]

I'm sorry.

[Sean]

Watch out for that. Some people in the live chat talking about Tulsa. Now, also, this is about the funniest.

[Raven]

Gobblers At Turkey Mountain.

[Sean]

Probably the funniest comment today in the live chat. What's the minimum credit score to be a pastor?

[Matt]

Our, our.

[Top]

I hope a lot of our guys stick around but, but forewarning and I.

[Raven]

Hope they've been respectful.

[Top]

They'll always be the most psychotic, but they're very funny. But the most psychotic people in your.

[Matt]

Very witty and intelligent are going to.

[Top]

Be the dangerous retards. They are very witty and intelligent. They're very smart.

[Sean]

So someone's asking in the chat though what kind of church? Because I mentioned Tulsa earlier and they're apparently they're about to move to Tulsa. Tulsa in a couple months and they're asking what kind of church teaches the stuff we're talking about, unfortunately. Sister or brother? No, I. The Methodist church that I went to.

[Matt]

Sugarcoat it, bro.

[Sean]

Yeah, no, no, no, not even close, man. I tried to introduce some of this stuff. I was asked to guest speak at the church that I went to and I got to guest speak just in the Sunday school for like six different occasions and, and gave him a full breakdown on the nephilim and the first, the first Sunday school I spoke with the first time they asked me to do this because it was just one of the co pastors that I had been speaking with, like I told you guys and they, they realized that I had been studying this more than they had. Right. So they're like do you want to come talk about this to some of our Sunday schools? Because sometimes they have questions about these things. And the first one they asked me to go to was The Sunrisers Sunday school. 80, 80 and over. 80 years old and over. And they met at 8am on Sunday morning. And so I'm, I'm like still sleepy eyed, like standing up there at 8am and trying to give this breakdown on Dunamy 3 and the Nephilim and Agar Bashan. And after it was done, it was like 50 minutes. And after it was done like they came up to me and they were like thank you so much for talking about this. We've wondered about this for, for decades. No one ever talks about this like these, these Q tip gray haired ladies coming up and being like thank you so much. We've always wondered about this. It makes so much sense now. And I'm just like the churches aren't talking about this stuff.

[Top]

Yeah. Yeah. Well this is the thing is, is right Sean. It's like people have experiences and I think what you want to know as a Christian is that the Bible and your leaders and, and the thing that you believe in your heart. Heart is equipped to deal with experiences.

[Raven]

That, like, are happening today still.

[Top]

People have experiences, and if they're not grounded and they don't know Christianity, that's what pushes them into the new age. That's what pushes them into, you know, being wicked or being a witch. Like, that's not a. How do I say this? That's not a. A flipping thing that I say. There's an entire culture, there's a vast body of. Of people, millennials, you know, Gen Z, I guess, you know, Gen X, that are practicing Wiccans, and. And these are people that, like, believe. They believe in the nature of the spiritual realm of entities, you know, so much more so than the average Christian does. And. And the average Christian is not exempt from having an experience. But, like, how many people have an experience, they bring it to their pastor, and, like, the pastor doesn't have a frame for it, or they just give them something that's reductive and dismissive and says, well, that sounds demonic, or of the devil. I would pray about it. And it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, but. And I agree with that, but you also have to be able to sit there and go back and forth with somebody about the depth of their experience. And if you don't do it, if you don't explain this supernatural worldview, if you don't explain these. These unbelievable events, I mean, our God came in the flesh, died, overcame death, was resurrected, and is literally the path for redemption for us. That's unbelievable. By. By many people's measure, if you're not willing to go to these other places because you don't think that it plays well with it, or you're unsure about giants, or these other belief systems are more than happy to discuss these things with people. They're more than happy to facilitate that conversation.

[Sean]

Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that because, like, when I. I went to Bible school in Tulsa. Tulsa. That's how I moved to Tulsa originally. And my. The first, like, nine weeks that I was there, we, like, one of our classes, we broke off into these, like, cell groups. You know, it was like 10 or 12 men that we were supposed to hold each other accountable and pray with each other, you know, and stuff, meet up once a week. And so I came back the following week and I dyed my hair all, like, platinum blonde because I was trying to be like Goku. I was trying to go Super Saiyan. So I'm like, what, 21 at the time, you know, And I'm watching Dragon Ball Z, like, While I'm doing my Bible study homework. And so, so I, I was like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna dye my hair like Super Saiyan blonde. And I, and I didn't do it right the first time because I didn't, I'd never done before. I just did it at the house with some Walmart stuff and it was like fire orange, right? Because I didn't do enough of it because my hair is dark and. And I did my eyebrows too. So it looked, I looked, I looked crazy.

[Top]

So awesome.

[Sean]

So I show up and so at. During this same week, I go to, I'm going, you know, this Bible school. And every day I drive to this Bible school, I go past this Angela psychic shop, right? And I'm just like, I'm just like, oh, God, let me just pray for you as I do that drive by prayer thing. Just like pray for you. May God heal you and bring you out of these unclean spirits. And then I, I've been doing this for months. And I, I thought to myself, man, I just want to like, man, something should happen. Like, this place should close down. This, this, like that's. I was young and naive. I was like, this guy should do something miraculous and just close this place down and get this lady saved, right? And I just heard clear as day, why don't you do it? Just go in there and talk to her. And so I was like, okay. So I just. You turned the car, pulled in and went in and talk to her, right? And. And I prayed before I went in and said, father, please give me something specific to say to her. So I went in and talked to her and told her what I felt like I was supposed to say to her. And she got very uncomfortable and started looking like this towards this back, this door that was like partially open in the back. And I was like, there's definitely other people here. And it just looked weird. And I was like, can you explain to me what you do? And she kind of gave me a short breakdown on how she reads tarot cards and stuff. And I was like, all right, well, I don't need all that, but I just want to let you know that God loves you. He wants to break you free from these chains. And, you know, I had some kind of, like, some things to say to her and. And then I left. And so when I went back to the Bible school to this little men's group that we met occasionally, I told them about this because they said, you know, like, what's your week been like? Right? And So I told them, they're already looking at me weird because my hair's dyed and that was against private school policy.

[Top]

They're trying to ask you what's wrong with you.

[Raven]

Are you?

[Sean]

Yeah, been like, yeah, I, I didn't tell them that I accidentally went to a gay club and didn't realize it until the guy. So that was a whole nother story. I got out of there unscath, bathed. But basically, so basically, like I'm. I'm trying to explain to them how I went to go witness the psychic lady, right? And they were, they were getting like super upset, like, whoa, what are you doing? You can't go in there by yourself. You don't know what could jump on you. You don't know how dangerous that is. And I was like, do we not serve the God of all creation? Like, do I not have the holy spirit? Like, what are you talking about? You know? And they're like, well, you remember like, like the sons of Skiva got beat up by the unclean spirits, you know? And I'm like, but wait a minute, man. Like they were false. They didn't beat up Paul and Barnabas. Like they were false. Like, I, I wanna.

[Top]

I.

[Sean]

Anyway, so just I've. That was my first time running into like this, you know, kind of cage stage spiritual atmosphere of, you know, everything's the devil and yeah, you got to stay away from there. And I'm like, aren't we supposed to go shed the light into place, the dark places?

[Raven]

You know, I mean, we had the same similar situation and I don't know who was right or who was wrong still, because it's something that like we like argued about just recently, the. The guy that fell off and there was like a weird supernatural reason as to why he fell off. I suspect that when he was in my house with one of his ex girlfriends that they. Something happened. Some sort of form of witchcraft, including bloody panties with poop on them, weird stuff. And then my entire family leaves behind.

[Top]

They'll leave behind, like, it's like a totem, like something that anchors them to a location. It's a. It's a whole thing.

[Raven]

Yeah, my. My entire family got sick and it's. It was, it was a debacle for a long time. This is before I even thought about starting the show. And then we had a falling out with the guy. And for some reason my, like my eyes were open to it and I was like, holy. Like, this happened to me. I think we were talking to Vicki Joy Anderson and she was discussing some of the artifacts that would be left during forms of witchcraft. And that was one of them. And I'm like, oh, like on the podcast. Blew my mind. That happened to me. And now I'm telling David. I'm like, man, this guy, I. I don't know if he's involved, but definitely this girl was. We had com. I had confirmation the day after that. They slept over. It was the craziest thing.

[Top]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Raven]

They slept over. Some guy was moving my parents in from New York, and I'm talking with him. His brother doesn't come to help him to unpack my parents stuff, so I'm helping them. This is after, like, we did a whole event and all this. I'm tired. I'm talking with them. I'm like, let me chat this guy up. And we go out into the little field right behind my house.

[Top]

Out.

[Raven]

Out they come, walking my friend and his girlfriend, and it looks like he's seen a ghost. She turns around, gets in the car. I was like. So I asked him, what the hell was that? And he goes, do you know her? Yes. And he looks at me and he goes, she's a witch. And I'm just like, you know, I'm not. I'm not thinking supernaturally at this moment. I'm not there yet at all. I'm in very much in a comedy political realm. And I was like, all right, cool. Anyway, years later, this happens. It dawns upon me. Oh, like, after that, we found the panties that she left in that room.

[Top]

My.

[Raven]

My entire household gets sick. I'm left to assume, what has this guy done? And at the same time, David gets his premonition. I need to go over there. Same thing with you. I need to go over there and talk to him. And I'm like, dude, don't do that. Because I got mixed. Like, now I'm just thinking myself, like, I got mixed up with this, and I. I wasn't prepared. And my family paid a price for it. It was bad. Like, I was on. We were thinking about leaving Florida and going back to New York. It was crazy. I was about to just sell.

[Top]

That would have been terrible. That would have been terrible. You would have been derailed from what God called you.

[Raven]

100. 100 derailed. But, like, it was at that pivotal moment, we would have never met. That would have been probably.

[Top]

That would have been awesome. But it was.

[Raven]

It was this pivotal moment of, like. I was like, I could just sell this and just forget this. This was a mistake. And I didn't put Then yeah, there's like me and David had some arguments like, don't go over there. And he ended up not going over there. And he paid some sort of a price for that spiritually, for being disobedient. But I'm just like, I know we're called to do. I still struggle with, do I want to put myself in a situation like that? Like if it. Maybe it's just me overblowing it, maybe I'm completely wrong or maybe that did happen.

[Top]

But I think you were right, it did happen. But I think that God calls us to be faithful and not to operate in the spirit of fear. And I think that. And look, you know, it's not like every time we're gonna hit it out of the park, like we were still like coming to this thing when all this happened. That was at a pivotal moment. We were changing dramatically. The trajectory of the show was changing dramatically. I think our walk with God has been exponentially strengthened since like that moment. But in that moment, I think that the fundamental mistake that we made, I made myself, was that we were operating in a spirit of fear instead of faith. And I think that within all things you're given this choice, right? The world or, or God at any moment puts a thing in front of you. And, and that thing, your, your decision on how to do with it can almost always be boiled down to a decision made in fear or a decision made in faith. And I've gotten quite used to this kind of faith based decision throughout my life because I've been, I used to be homeless when I was younger. I think when you don't have a lot to lose, it's much easier to start moving in in faith than it is in fear when you have a lot. Like you were dealing with a thing. You had just bought a house. There's, you know, you've moved your whole family house.

[Raven]

And my like, like my wife got sick to the point where we spent like man, $15,000 on, you know, we bought it to the doctors, but obviously western medicine wants to do weird stuff. And we were, we went an alternative route, IVs, any kind of, you know, alternative healing we can. And we actually helped her. She's, she's good now.

[Top]

After 15 grand.

[Raven]

After 15 grand, yeah. But it's crazy. Sorry to curse, but it's crazy the way God works as well. And it's like, like, like, like you, I guess I for. I forget. But we do the show, we, we create this dumb show and our first three sponsors, out of nowhere should people who should Never sponsor us. Are like, you know, Parasite Cleanse company. These are things I spent money on. Frequency technology, like, like Rife machine. He's, he sponsored us. Who else? All the health products like, you know, like shout out to Van man. These are all things like I'm spending tons of money on because now my wife is like, like she has to detox. She's got to do all these things and it's just given right back to me in the dumbest way possible. It's like, here you go, you spent all that money, you're about to quit here. It's, it's all right there, right back and I'm just like, I don't know. Yeah, it's, it's insane. It's insane.

[Top]

Wait a minute.

[Sean]

You guys got sponsors?

[Raven]

Not anymore.

[Top]

Not anymore. They ran. But. But I, I do think there's a ball in.

[Sean]

Yo. I had to create my own company just to have a sponsor.

[Raven]

We use, we use a different model. There are, there's, there's opportunity out there, but it's, it's, it's hard to keep track of. And like.

[Top]

Yeah, because it's like, oh, you're a three man team now. Previously two man team. And it's like, okay, so you're going to develop a relationship with these people, keep a relationship with these people, reach out to them all the time, make sure that, you know, that's a fruitful thing. It's like we're just a couple of dudes trying to do this thing. But I think now where I'm at is like, it's a mixture, right? You shouldn't be foolish. You shouldn't engage in anything that's going to open up doorways, but you also shouldn't be afraid. So in other words, like, like don't go out, don't do tarot cards, don't do dumb crap because you believe that your God is stronger than whatever's going to happen to you from the tarot cards. Because you're giving consent to a thing, it's not about your God being stronger in that instance, you're doing a foolish thing and opening up a line of communication with something, giving something consent, giving something access to you. But in these instances where like if you're thinking about witchcraft or somebody coming and doing a thing to you, if you're in good standing, if you're not the one who's going out and seeking divination or some crap like that, that who can stand against me if, if God is with me, right? That's, that's the core of everything. Why would I be afraid if you came into this coffee shop and I didn't seek you out and you started, I don't know, trying to, to cast a spell on. I would tell you in the name of Jesus Christ to kick rocks and nothing that you're going to do is going to stand against me. I, I don't have any fear associated with any of that stuff. And I think also because when I was younger, it's like I, I was very comfortable with the fact that all of this was real, saw a lot of stuff, experienced a lot of stuff. I didn't figure out that there was a real remedy to it until I was 30 something years old. Now that I know that remedy is Jesus Christ, that through the authority of Jesus Christ, through his name, we have authority over these spiritual entities that don't have our best interests at heart? I, I, I, it's like a cheat code. I already got it. I'm good. I don't have anything to, to be afraid of. And honestly, they're parasitic and weak in nature. They need us to be able to interact with this physical realm. They operate best when you believe that they are you, right? So they're whispering thoughts and ideas and, and impulses in your mind and, and they try to tell you something about yourself that's not true. But they really operate best when you believe that those thoughts are your own, they're not your own. But why are they pretending to be it? Because they're weak. They're weak. They don't have any authority over you. You have to come into agreement with them for them to have authority over you. So, so you know, it's a mixture.

[Sean]

Ephesians 5, I think says it best. Is this right to refresh your mind with the washing of the water of the word. You know, that way you're not getting all these other words in your brain that confuse you, lead you into the wrong path. In fact, it's funny you mentioned about, you know, not, not engaging in these practices in order to, to reach people in these practices. And that's like, reminds me of First Corinthians 9. You know the context when, when it says I make myself all things to all men, that I might win some for Christ. Paul's not going out there when he's witnessing at the, below the temple to Athena. He's not going to worship at the temples to Athena, right? He's just, he's just going to the people that are there, the Greeks that are there. And in the same way I saw this comment earlier. There are tons of millennials and zoomers in Wiccan. And that's. Yeah, that's another story that I. When I was in Tulsa, me and some dudes used to go run at midnight. We would try to run. There's this park in the middle of Tulsa that's like six miles. If you can run the whole thing. We can only ever make like two or three miles. But, like, we would go run at midnight, and it was also just, you know, we'd go out and BS with each other, and it was fun. But one night, as we're running through this park, because there's, it's a, there's a golf course interlaced throughout the park, and there's these two girls doing a Wiccan ritual at midnight next to this pond on the golf course, dressed in white, white wedding dresses with their hands out towards the water, standing at the edge of the water with their eyes closed. And because I'm just always curious in nature, I just run right up to them. Like, we're just all running, and everybody's like, hey, what's that? And I'm like, I'm gonna go ask them what they're doing. So, like, I walk up to them and they're just, they don't even acknowledge I'm there. They just got their eyes closed, their hands out. And these are two girls that are like 20 years old, you know, attractive. And here's some strange dude that just ran up to them, and they don't even acknowledge I'm there. You know, they don't even flinch. And I'm like, okay. And my, all my guy friends are like, standing up on the top of the hill at the distance, and I'm just like, I'm looking at them like, I don't know what they're doing. So I, I, we, we start running again, and God's just hitting me hard. Just like, go back. Go back. Interrupt them. Interrupt them. So, like, I, I tell my friends, I'm like, guys, and this one kid, he knew, his name was Bill, he's my roommate, he's like, you're gonna go back, aren't you? I'm like, I'm you. I gotta go back. I gotta go back. So I ran back and I interrupted their little ritual. And they ended up coming back later, about 15 minutes later, and I'm already, I've already interrupted him. I'm talking to them and, and they're both from Alabama, they're new to Oklahoma, and they're doing this Wiccan ritual. Like there was supposedly some Wiccan special holy day or whatever, and I just started telling about Jesus and one of these girls gets saved and then like, we, we take her to church for like the next two months, every Wednesday night to the youth group because she was like 17 or whatever.

[Top]

That's incredible.

[Sean]

Or 18, I think. But either way, she, you know, it was just one of those deals. Like, I, if I just left it alone, they would have continued to do whatever, who knows, you know? But I was like, you know what? I'm just going to interrupt these, these, these devil worshipers, you know what I'm saying? Like, they, they want to come into churches and Tulsa and interrupt and cast spells from the back of the church. That happens, by the way, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, you have groups of witches that are going to churches and try to cast spells from the back. Oh, yeah. But so, yeah, I'm like, why not we just go and interrupt them? Just take the, Take the light of Christ to them and see what happens.

[Top]

I'm so. I thought it was going to turn out a different way. I thought they were gonna, like, I thought they were gonna kill him, but no, that's awesome.

[Matt]

Something.

[Top]

That's incredible, man.

[Sean]

That's just fun stuff of, like, you can, you, you do have literally God on your side. You know what I'm saying? Like, when you understand the concept of angels and demons and the whole biblical context, like, only 200 angels rebelled. Now, we don't know how many unclean spirits there were. It seems to be there were lots of them. But, but according to Enoch and Jubilees, only a tenth of them are still left left under Satan's control after the flood, which, which does, like, which means if there's. I don't know if the population report is correct, but if there's 7 to 8 billion people on the earth, there's not enough demons for everybody. You know, like, you're. And if you look at the, like the, the Hebraic, you know, math of myriads upon myriads, mentioning of the number of angels, there's a lot more angels than demons and rebellious angels. Like, the greater majority is on God's side side.

[Raven]

You're.

[Sean]

You are. You have a huge posse on your side, you know, like, greater is he that's in you than he that's in the world. Literally, but numerically greater. Like you. You're on the winning side and you have the numbers. You do not need to be afraid. You know, you just need to make sure that you're actually doing what he's called you to do. And he's got your back. 100, you know, and that's where we're.

[Raven]

Gonna try going forward, Sean. We're gonna try. All right, Gee, stop.

[Sean]

Stop convicting me.

[Raven]

How dare you?

[Sean]

Yeah, I just want to encourage you guys. I think what you're doing, though, by creating the conversation is important, right? You may not be praying with each individual at each church that listens to you and leading them explicitly through each scripture, even though, you know, Matt's clearly bringing some balance to you guys's channel, right, with what he's doing.

[Top]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean]

But all the people that are listening, you're not able to walk them, you know, intimately walk them through the scriptures and make sure they're being discipled. You're praying that they're getting that. That from the places from when they're watching you. But. But the fact that you're bringing up these topics and pointing people back to the Bible and trying to defend against the clear, deceptive narrative. I just want to encourage you guys. Keep going. Don't give up.

[Top]

Thank you, man. I. I appreciate it. That's like, you know, when I pray, I just ask that, like, you know, if it's. If it's one person, I don't know. I'm not the best at scripture. I'm still learning. I have, like, my testimony, my experience, my point of view. And it's just like, if somebody hears it, it. And it strengthens their walk and they orient more towards Christ. Maybe they were already on the walk, but they're. They're encouraged. Or maybe they thought a bunch of things and didn't think Christianity had anything to say about those things, and then it turns out it does, And. And that's what helps them. That. That's it. It's. We get on the mic every day, and maybe one person per conversation, you know, hears that, and then they got.

[Raven]

A little question in their head and they go, huh, Investigate a little further. That's the best that I can do.

[Top]

That's it, man. That's it. That's. That's. That's. And. And honestly, that's huge to me. The fact that we get to do that is. Is incredible. Like, I get to do that. Like, that's what. Like, when I pass and I get to meet Jesus, like, is he gonna. You said that. I think once it's like, if you're.

[Raven]

High five or just be like, yeah.

[Top]

Like, if he's like, hey, good job, and then points to people and there's a body of people there, they're like, yeah, dude, you helped. Like, whoa. That's. That's. That's pretty much it. That's as big as it gets.

[Sean]

That is awesome, brother. You're actually repeating a short story I read back in 1998 by a guy named Robert Rasmussen, Christian author who wrote a book of short stories. And that's one of the short stories, is that a guy gets to heaven, and there's a great throng of people, and he runs into somebody he knows, and they're like, oh. And he's like, oh, man, I never knew that you were a believer. And he's like, yeah, it was from. These people over here told me about Christ. And lo and behold, that's the person this guy had went to witness to. So, like, even though he didn't witness to his neighbor, he'd witnessed to a separate group that he thought was completely detached from his neighbor. They ended up getting his neighbor saved. You know what I mean? And so, like, yeah, just. It's all connected. And it's a beautiful, beautiful little book of short stories, but it was before Chicken Soup for the Soul got popular. But anyway, thank you, guys. I will probably should end it. I appreciate you guys giving me three hours today. It's.

[Top]

I appreciate you giving us your time, man. Thanks.

[Raven]

Went quick, man. Yeah, it's a pleasure. It's also. It's. It's encouraging because I. Obviously we do. We do, like, crazy stuff. We delve in comedy, but when somebody with your. With your, like, body of work and understanding of this stuff and like, Matt. Matt is another type of person. It's like, you guys understand the Bible so deeply. For you to look at some of the things that we do and kind of get it and see what we're pointed at. Even though it's this. This. I don't know, in an abstract way. Yeah, it's an abstract pointing. But like. Like, thank. Thank you for having us on and allowing us to spread what we're doing here. I think what we're doing, we could reach a certain amount of. A specific. A specific type of person.

[Top]

Yeah.

[Raven]

And that's all that we want to do. Just say what. You know, what's happened to us.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Raven]

One little.

[Sean]

Little alien nugget before we go. So you guys talked about the concept of buried crafts that have always been here kind of thing, being part of the disclosure and everything. Look up. When you have time, look up the. I think it's an Aswan. It's in. It's in the. What used to be called the. The upper kingdom of Ancient Egypt near one of the pyramids. It's the underground labyrinth that they have found. It's supposedly so large that it hosts all the idols of Egypt. There's like a temple to each of the idols of Egypt underneath this thing. It's massive. It's considered one of the largest unearthed discoveries because they've done the ground penetrating radar and they found the top of the roof of it and everything. And they, they know from historical accounts what it's supposed to be. It's in this exact location with the exact size descriptions. Historians like Herodotus and planets and a whole bunch of other people from the 4th century B.C. up until the 2nd century A.D. all talked about going to visit this amazing, ridiculously large lap, bigger than any pyramid constructed with all the idols of Egypt in there. With a pyramid, a 24 story pyramid at the bottom of it.

[Raven]

I've heard it.

[Top]

Plus I'm looking at it now.

[Sean]

Yeah, plus supposedly there's this ring, there's this mysterious ring. They don't know if it's a craft or what it is that, that they've seen in, in the GPR scans that's at the bottom of it that they think. So my, my theory is that they are going to unearth the labyrinth and escalate and do an excavation of it with archaeology as a part of the disclosure. Because they're gonna be like, oh, look, we've had a ship buried down here this whole time. We're, we're the ancient gods of ancient Egypt. And you know, the Sudoku guy with the crazy hair and ancient aliens, he was right. We just, we were here in the past.

[Top]

Yeah. So we're back and that'll cause people to, to say, oh, okay, look, that's real. And, and, and, and Christ isn't. I think that's what's going to end up happening because that's what all these new age people believe.

[Raven]

That not just that Christ isn't, that's real and this is real, but this is expedient. I think that's what the Jews did. You know, God, God is real. Took me out of Egypt. But there's a golden calf here and we're going to get something from it. And it's right here. We could touch it. Yeah, maybe if it's physical or spiritual, we don't know, but it's going to be super expedient.

[Top]

Well, we'll see. I have a feeling we'll see. Pretty soon Steven Spielberg's disclosure day is coming and I think that helps to move the narrative along. So maybe we'll see.

[Sean]

Oh, is he still alive?

[Top]

He is. He's been drinking baby blood and it actually does a number on preserving your, you know, your organs and such.

[Sean]

Not the. What's it called? Not the adrenochrome.

[Top]

Oh, he scares it before he drinks it.

[Sean]

Yeah, that's wild. Guys, think. Check it out. Nephilim Death Squad on YouTube. Rumble. All major podcasts was Apple, Spotify. You guys are on all of them. Go check them out. Guys, Nothing. Death Squad and I appreciate you guys. Thank you for the awesome conversation.

[Top]

Thank you.

[Raven]

Thank you, Sean.

[Matt]

Thanks, Sean.

[Sean]

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