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Nephilim Death Squad
TIME CAPSULE: 038: Christian Orthodoxy w Jay Dyer
01:41:51
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- [00:00]
Top Lobster
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- [00:59]
Jay Dyer
We are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we told is going on and what is really going.
- [01:21]
Top Lobster
On is absolutely important. Oh yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim shit.
- [01:26]
David Lee Corbo
It's like we. We all know what's going down but no one's saying what happened to the home of the brave These mother they control us now when no one's talking about how they made us try to be slaves and everybody's just walking around heading the clouds I want to wake up to a dead in the grave finally too late we need to be ready to raise up. Welcome to the end of days, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven. That's top lobster. And joining us today is Jay Dyer. For the third episode today, we're bringing it. You guys don't deserve it, but we showed up today with Jay Dyer. Jay, can you tell the people a little bit about what it is you do and where they can find you?
- [02:13]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, you can find me on my website, Jason Alison.com. you can find me on all the other platforms under my name. What I do is cover a lot of topics and everything from geopolitics to film analysis to symbology to apologetics. We do a lot of debates with Muslims, with atheists, with weird sects and groups, and I've written four books those are available at my website. Two of them are on Hollywood and then two of them are on philosophy of religion. And then I host the fourth hour of he who Shall Not Be Named every Friday on his platform.
- [02:52]
Top Lobster
It was Alex Jones which we don't give a. Listen, take the channel down, do what you got to do. YouTube. But we're, we're saying names, we're taking numbers. Yeah, Dude, I've been, I've been a fan of yours for quite a while. I don't even know where I heard you first, possibly Tinfoil Hat years ago, but one of the names that you know right away that comes up and you're like, oh, Jay Dyer said that. Like where I'm on it. So you've had a big influence in the, in, I guess like the conspiratorial movement of my life, or at least the growing, the development of the ideas that I, that I've had coming to this point. Because I, you know, I was, I'm friends with Clint, like we were talking about before, so I was very into politics, geopolitics, economics, libertarian theory, stuff like that. And then that lead that led me down the rabbit hole, which kind of fed right back into my faith, the church that I had left. And now I'm in the process of rediscovering it, but with, with different, with a different lens. Right. Whereas before I would, I would have told you I think the Bible is a set of stories that we should live by. Really important. But analogies, you know, things like that. Now I'm rereading and I'm like, all this stuff is true. And I, I invited you on because I wanted to know more about.
- [04:10]
Jay Dyer
The.
- [04:11]
Top Lobster
The type of Christianity that you speak about. Mostly because it seems like one of the purest forms. It seems like people like, like Buck Johnson, who I've, who we've, I've been friends with and I've interviewed. He went from atheist to orthodox. And the change in his personality. Yeah, the change in his personality has been like startling. So I'm like, what is going on with this specific type of Christianity?
- [04:40]
Jay Dyer
Did you know you knew him before, back when he was atheist? You knew him?
- [04:44]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah, Libertarian were out there 2018, 2017, doing retarded libertarian stuff. And then, you know, Covid goes down and everybody's like, wait a second, there's a God. I gotta, I gotta dig deeper. And he's one of the people. And he went, I went kind of full blown conspiracy. He went the orthodox route. And it's kind of funny how we met right back here. Anyway, it leads to the same spot. So I'm like a lot of questions in my brain popping up with this. And you know, Alex Jones even asked about it today.
- [05:14]
Jay Dyer
So.
- [05:15]
Top Lobster
Good. Good day. Better than ever to discuss It.
- [05:17]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. And. And Jay, just so you know, where. Where I'm coming from, it's like I've. I don't want to say conceded, because I never denied that the world was most accurately viewed through a biblical lens. But I came to this understanding after years of absorbing conspiracy and supernatural, sort of more of a supernatural worldview. And so I don't think you can have that be your basis of understanding the world and not consider strongly that the Bible is an accurate representation of what's happening. But it wasn't something that I jumped into because I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but for a long time, the most easily dunked on religion was Christianity. And not easily, maybe that's not the word, but most readily dunked on religion was Christianity. It seemed to be the one that it was no holds bars. You can get on stage and say whatever you want about Jesus, about the church, about the Bible. And so I wasn't eager, let's say, to jump into that and start to adopt those worldviews. But after a certain amount of time, in my own personal experiences, it's been 17 years now that I've been what I could call a conspiracy theorist. And only the past maybe four years did I come around to understanding that, yes, the world is most accurately viewed through a biblical lens. And so when you try to quantify that and how much I understand about Christianity in the Bible, it's actually very little. I just know that based off of my experiences and things that I've seen, I'm like, okay, this is true. It's. It's the best lens through which to look at these things. So this show, along with the audience, has been like a learning experience. I've been learning alongside them. So when Top talks about the Buck Johnson interview, that was the most. Not the most technical because we've had people on like Gary Wayne and La Marzulli and a bunch of these characters in this who see a lot of the supernatural through the biblical lens. But I'm hoping that this will serve as, you know, not too technical. Right. Because you don't want to be. I don't want to give the audience anything too dry. We're kind of retards on this show, and we like to give people exciting content. But I am also excited to learn about. The thing that I've come to understand is the. The proper viewing.
- [07:53]
Jay Dyer
I do a lot. I do a lot of boring, retarded content, but I can also do exciting retarded content, too. So there's a. There's an overlap. There's a Venn diagram of two levels of retarded. And we can, we can hit the middle there.
- [08:05]
Top Lobster
So.
- [08:05]
Jay Dyer
But, yeah, no, I mean, I think you're right that in the last, you know, since the couf, it seems like a lot of people, actually, maybe before that you could go back to remember when Bruce Gender was propped up as the woman of the Year. I think a lot of people started thinking, wait a minute, like, there's a big scale push not just for, like, degenerate, but like actual evil. Like there's actual evil going on. And then I think when a lot of people started seeing the drag stuff with kids at libraries, you know, that then people start thinking, wait a minute, there's actually like a legit spiritual evil that's more than just, you know, the government trying to control us. Which that's true. But a lot of people, I think we're thinking that if there's this much evil that we can start to see out there, there's got to be a good, you know, to the contrast with evil. So I think that opened up a lot of people's ideas to the possibility of, yeah, like you said, spiritual realities, but also maybe even the existence of God for people that, you know, have hadn't considered that or had been going through an atheist agnostic phase. I kind of had a. I guess you could say a doubting Christianity phase maybe from about 2008 to 2012. And I was kind of interested in perennialism and Neoplatonism and that kind of stuff. And then I started, you know, kind of gradually working my way back, just through getting back into reading the Bible about 2013, 14. So, yeah, I think this is happening to a lot of people because we're. We're just noticing, like, objective evil. And the best account for this, the best explanation is, like you said, the worldview that's presented in the Bible. So that's what I think's going on. And then, you know, as to what orthodox Christianity is, we think it's really just the. The ancient expression of Christianity that you see in the first thousand years. So we would reject a lot of the, A lot of conspiratorial accounts that you see amongst evangelicals or Seven Day Adventists or even Muslims, where they say, oh, well, Constantine created this Christianity, you know, at the Council of Nicaea, where they invented the Trinity or something like that. We do a lot of. Well, we've done several. I don't know about a lot, but we've done several talks where we go into looking at the church fathers of the first, second and third century, where it shows that they taught the Trinity too. So what happened at the Council of Nicaea wasn't something new, it wasn't invented, wasn't a contrast or contradiction to the Christianity of the first three centuries. And so if we look at the, you know, other issues, like the formation of what's called the canon of Scripture, and that just means the, the books that went into the, the Bible to make it up as we know it today, we would argue that you can't really divorce the living, existing historical community of the church from that decision. And when we go back and when we look at what those people believed in those centuries, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, particularly they, they believe what we believe. So that, for me was a really long journey. It took me many, many years to come to this. I started out as a Baptist and then had a long period where I was a Roman Catholic. And then I noticed a lot of problems with the Vatican's claims and the history of the church as well. So that was a long, maybe 15 year approach for me to come to Orthodoxy. But in short, yeah, we just think that it is the church of the first thousand years, and I'm not limiting it there, we think it's the church of the second thousand years. But if you get into this issue of like, say Protestant versus Catholic, a lot of people think, well, if I go read those people for the first thousand years, that'll help me determine, like, you know, where the Bible came from and should we have tradition, should we have a pope? Should we have, you know, synods and councils? What's the best way for the church to be governed? All these questions kind of emerge out of the first thousand years of Christianity. And so for me, when I went and dove into those guys, it was pretty obvious after a while that, that they didn't believe in the papacy as we know of it today. And they weren't operating like a standard, you know, evangelical church, but they were for all intents and purposes, identical to the Orthodox Church. So that's what we would say it is as the historical church.
- [12:17]
Top Lobster
Yeah, we on the show, like, it's not that we like, tear down church. I don't want to say that we do that, but we talk about this idea of like, what is church? And like, we're still not really sure. Like, we think like a community, obviously a community of people is kind of like a church, just where one or more gathered in my name. In a way, we're doing that with, you know, the people that watch this. But it's not, it's not quite church. And one of, one of the things that drew me away from church, I was in it for a long time. Pentecostal was the, the governmental organizational structure of the church. You have the Treasury Department, you've got a president, you've got like layers of this bureaucracy. And when you, I played music in it. When you're in it, it's disgusting because you kind of like take a peek underneath and you're like, this is all rotted.
- [13:04]
Jay Dyer
Did you have like fat women running everything in the Pentecostal Church?
- [13:08]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it's, it's exactly that. And it's not, I, I assume it's not supposed to be that. What's the, what's the orthodox?
- [13:16]
Jay Dyer
No, Jesus says in Matthew, I appoint in every church one fat Pentecostal. You haven't read that.
- [13:23]
Top Lobster
Is that in the red? That's in the school field, correct?
- [13:28]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. I think church governance is a, is a good point. It's kind of a boring topic when people think church governance. It isn't. But you know, we would say that all the stuff that you see in the Old Testament and the way Israel operated, we see them as the Old Testament Church. So they had the role of a high priest, they had the, the priest and they had the Levi. And for us that corresponds to the New Testament teaching of bishop, presbyter or priest and then a deacon. So there's that three tiered structure is the same in the Old Testament to the New Testament. Of course, Christ is the ultimate high priest for us, not the Pope or anything like that. So the ultimate high priest role we think is fulfilled in the person of Christ when he ascended into heaven. But then there is still, in our view, what we would say is the Melchizedekian priesthood, which if you look at Psalm 110, right, it says that, that I will make you a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. So Christ's priesthood is that eternal priesthood and both the person of Melchizedek in Genesis and the Levitical priesthood or the Aaronic priesthood, we would say both of those priesthoods in history are types or fulfillments of the priesthood that Christ brings. And so when he establishes the new Israel, we think in the Gospels, when Jesus is talking about the kingdom in Matthew 16 and Matthew 18, and when he tells the apostles, you know, I'll give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, he doesn't just say it to Peter in Matthew 16, like the Roman Catholics Think he also says in Matthew 18, two chapters later, that the whole college of the apostles possesses the same keys and authority. But he also says in Matthew, he who hears you, hears me. So we think that there's a legitimate authority passed on to them. He breathes on them at the end of John and says, whoever sins you remit, they're remitted. Whoever sins you retain, they're retained. And then in the book of Acts, you see them going out after Pentecost, after they're empowered by the, by the Holy Spirit, they go out and set up churches. And particularly the letters of Paul to Timothy are probably the most relevant here because Paul says to Timothy, I appointed you in Ephesus. And then he says, you lay hands on men after you who are, you know, qualified, have good morals, etc, good character, who know the faith. And he says that all the things you heard from me in the presence of many witnesses. So that includes Paul's oral catechesis or teaching. So if you look at Acts 20, for example, Paul says, I'm pretty sure it's 20. He says that he taught for three years day and night in Ephesus. So he's teaching catechizing, not just with written text, certainly he's commenting on the Old Testament, but the whole body of doctrines which is oral and written is what Paul charges Timothy and those two epistles to pass on. And he specifically says, and this is a key point of departure, I think, from pretty much most Protestants would be where Paul says that do not lay hands hastily on somebody because the gift of the Holy Spirit, he says, is transferred in that, what we call the rite of ordination. So when a, when a person is ordained, we believe it's an actual sort of historical descent from the original apostolic body. And that for us is what we call apostolic succession. And so when I was a Protestant, that kind of became a key dividing line between the Protestant view and, and, and on this just that topic, Orthodox and Catholics agree in terms of apostolic succession. They think, of course, that it's only through the Pope that this has had. We don't think, that, we think that it comes just from the, from the individual apostles. So anybody who descends from the apostles with that laying on of hands, and it's not just a mechanical thing, you also have to have the right theology to go with it. So, so that's a couple areas of departure from like the Roman Catholic view of apostolic succession. But that's the basic idea that the apostles appointed specific successors in the cities where they set up the churches.
- [17:12]
David Lee Corbo
What are the Thoughts on the Pope? Because coming at this from a place of conspiracy theory, the Vatican and the Pope is obviously rife with conspiracy. And there is a lot of argument that the Vatican has almost been captured. You know, you hear people say things like, Rome didn't lose, it just became. Or Rome didn't fall, it just became the Vatican. And you see the bizarre symbolism. People point to the hat of the Pope being a representation of, of Dagon, the Philistine God, Dagon. And also the auditorium that he sits in oftentimes looks like a giant viper. There is this backdrop to another one of his sort of speaking rooms where it's supposed to be Jesus rising from a nuclear explosion.
- [18:09]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, it looks demonic.
- [18:10]
David Lee Corbo
It looks demonic, yeah. And half of the head even looks like a serpent head. So there's a lot of bizarre stuff. Makes the, the Vatican incredibly hard to, to trust. I'd be very interested in knowing, like, well, where does the Orthodox Church then place the Pope? And do they look to the Vatican, they look to the Pope as a, as a legitimate thing, or is this, you know, has this been co opted in their eyes?
- [18:33]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, the, we would say that the co opting happened a long time ago. So from the Orthodox perspective, the split between the Eastern Church and the Western Church, which for the most part for the first eight or nine hundred years is the same, they're squabbles. But the east and west for the first eight or nine hundred years is pretty much unified. And then you start having some fissures around the eight hundreds where there's a new insertion into the Creed on the part of Charlemagne and his court theologians. So there's, it's a kind of a move by the State here actually, to try to alter the Church's theological confession in the Creed. And so they start saying what's known as the Filioque addition to the, to the Creed, the Nicene Creed. So this is where it starts to rupture. There's already kind of two different ideas of theology between east and west, but it really comes to fruition in 1054 when there's an official excommunicating of east and west between the Pope and the Patriarch Constantinople in the East. And so that's the official sort of split of the Church. Ever since then, we believe that the Papacy kind of went just kind of even worse and worse and worse. So for us, it's like a gradual innovating to where they wanted more and more worldly power. A couple things you could look at that's pretty easy to see this is there's a document called Dictatus Pape under one of the Gregorian reform popes of the 11th century. And this document is not very long, but it has, I don't know, 30 propositions where the Pope basically makes himself. I don't know if you guys know about Dune, but I mean, basically says he's the Kwisatz Haderach. He basically says, I'm actually the emperor of all emperors. So every emperor in the world now owes their allegiance to me. I can call standing armies, I can go to war, I can call crusades, all this kind of stuff, which.
- [20:26]
David Lee Corbo
So when I was younger, I came to understand that the Pope had, like, this unbelievable level of authority over, like, the world. And that is true. That wasn't just some. Some bullshit that I learned when I was.
- [20:37]
Jay Dyer
So you start to see this with. There's actually before this, a fraudulent document that was appealed to called the Donation of Constantine. And this was later, in the Renaissance, proven to be a forgery. The Vatican, you know, nowadays admits it was a forgery. But for many centuries, they backed up the. What's called the temporal power of the bishop of Rome by this forgery. There was other forgeries that backed it up as well. But we really see the first, like, explicit papal claims of this in the. The 11th century with what's called the Gregorian reforms. And this is where Pope Gregory and then popes after him, Hildebrand and others, they. They literally just revolutionized the governance of the Church in the West. To be totally papal, for example, prior to that, the Church. The way a church would get a bishop in the canons of the councils, the first 800 years, is that it only took, like, three bishops or a metropolitan, a local prominent bishop to appoint a new bishop. But when you get the Rigorian reforms, the Pope says, no, I now appoint and approve all bishops in the world. And you can see why he would want to do that, because now he can ensure that every bishop in the world is now a papal bishop and in line with him, you see. So, and this isn't admitted. This isn't like a conspiracy. Like, this is just a admitted historical change in the governance of the Church. But this is why you'll see Roman Catholics, even to this day, well, they'll just say, well, the Pope can do whatever he wants, so he can do that, right? He can, like, totally change the way that bishops come to be, because he could do that. He's the Pope. Then there's an even stronger statement beyond that document called Dictatus Pape, called Unum sanctum. And this is 1308 or something. Anyways, Pope Boniface VIII, it's a famous document because it's the first document where the papacy says not only do you have to be in the Roman Catholic Church to be saved, you actually have to believe also in the doctrine of the temporal supremacy of the Roman bishop to be saved. So it kind of, it ups the ante even more. So from the orthodox perspective, we think that the temptation to worldly power to you know, having eventually the. The Vatican bank, all this crazy stuff, we think that it kind of began back a long time ago and then it just kind of snowballed to what you have today to fast forward up to where you were talking about with like the weird stuff with. It's called the Paulo Six audience hall. There have been some weird Masonic and occultic architects who designed stuff for the Vatican in the modern like 60s, 70s and 80s period. So I wouldn't be surprised if that audience hall wasn't designed by some weirdo creep or some pedo, because that's pretty well known. But if you really go into, go into the depth of like the conspiracy of the modern Vatican, that's all CIA stuff. And even, even Catholic researchers have written giant books proving this, particularly David Wimoff's book about the relationship of the CIA to the Vatican at the time of the, of the Cold War, 1950s and 60s. It's even, it's called the Doctrinal Warfare Program. And we even know who headed it up. It was a guy named C.D. jackson and he was working with Jesuits that the CIA kind of recruited to be assets.
- [23:52]
Top Lobster
It's incredible how they have their clothes and everything. I wanted to backtrack for a second. So in those first thousand years during that break off, was there any physical confrontations? Because it doesn't just seem like you can break a religion into two without there being some like, wars fought over this. And I'm, as we said up front, we're idiots. So like there had, there had to have been something. This doesn't just, doesn't just happen peacefully.
- [24:20]
Jay Dyer
That's a good question. I think. So Even by the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th century, you start to see the Bishop of Rome, who we would say is, is a legitimate bishop, like he was. The Church of Rome originally began just like all the other what we say as Orthodox churches. But what happened was because Rome was the, you know, seat of the empire in the first 300 years of Christianity, before you get the creation of Constantinople by Constantine, what's called Old Rome had preeminence and they had a preeminence, not because of some special gift of Peter or infallibility. That's the Roman Catholic belief. But we believe it's just because as like Saint Irenaeus says in his book Against Heresies, if you read. I think it's book four of that, he says that Rome is great because Peter and Paul preached and, and were martyred there. So there's nothing mentioned about like a special gift of infallibility or anything like that. But there is an honor that's given to Rome just because of tradition. If you look at what's, what's called a Canon of Nicaea. And so the first Ecumenical Council, they would usually attach these canons which are just rules of church governance. The sixth canon says that in the Church we'll have a, a kind of a status of which bishops have honor and Rome is given the first status. And then Alexandria and then Antioch. Antioch is another place where Peter went and preached Christianity. And if you go to an Orthodox church, for example, a lot of them are called Antiochian Orthodox. They derive their descent from Peter going to Antioch. So in other words, the point Orthodox often make there is that like, that's just as much a Petrine church as Rome is. So there's no, like, why wouldn't, you know, if you believe in infallibility of the Petrine descent, like, why wouldn't there be that infallibility at Antioch? It doesn't make any sense. So Roman Catholics typically say, well, Rome is just special because Peter and Paul died there. But there's nothing about that that tells you that it's like an infallibility that's given to that Church. And if you read Paul's letter to the Romans, he says in Romans 11, he warns them that they could be grafted out. That doesn't fit with the Roman Catholic idea of, you know, indefectibility in the perpetuity of, of the Roman Church. So basically what was originally a position of honor, we think it just kind of evolved and grew into these outlandish claims. But I can't, I can't think off the top of my head of like an. Any physical conflict up until Rome. Actually, eventually the west sacks Byzantium. So when Byzantium gets sacked in one of the Crusades, they just destroy it. They don't even recognize the Christianity that's there as legitimate Christianity. They think it's weird that the priests have beards and stuff. It's like, well, this is what, this is what all the Church did prior to the prior to the 2nd of Constantinople. So, you know, so it's just kind of like they just went totally separate ways. And the Roman Catholic Church really became a totally different worldly power. I mean, have you heard about, like, the Borgias or the Medici popes? You know, they're very, very famous for, like, building giant whorehouses and palaces and, you know, this kind of stuff. And it's just kind of like that illustrates, I think, the divorce between the two sides. But Aside from the 2nd of Constantinople, I can't think of a war that occurred, but I could just not be aware of it.
- [27:49]
Top Lobster
Where do you.
- [27:50]
David Lee Corbo
Or where does the. The Orthodox Church place the extra canonical texts in. In the sense of.
- [27:57]
Top Lobster
Oh, yeah, I was. I was gonna ask that.
- [27:59]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah. Are they something that they consider or are they. Do they consider them like a deception or, you know, where do they place those?
- [28:08]
Jay Dyer
So there's different types of these. There's what's called pseudepographa, there's some that are called Apocrypha, and then there's the Deuterocanon. So the. You might. You're probably referring to what's called the Deuterocanon, which is like Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Ecclesiasticus, or Sirach, The Apocrypha, mostly.
- [28:26]
Top Lobster
But. Yeah, yeah, we believe.
- [28:27]
Jay Dyer
Well, we believe that the. The Deuterocanon, which is those, like, Maccabees and those book. Books that the Catholics have. We have those books as well. So we don't agree with the sort of. The first being like Martin Luther and Calvin were the first to really say we don't want those books in here. So sometimes Protestants call those the Apocrypha. So I'm assuming that's what you mean. But there's also other books that are called Pseudopographa, like the Book of Enoch or something like that, which there's a few. I think the Slavonic, which is like the old Russian Bible, I think it includes the Book of Enoch. So we. Because we don't believe in sola scriptura. Like, we don't have a problem with there being legitimate tradition in something like the Book of Enoch, even though it's not technically. Like, it's not. It's not in the Orthodox study Bible. Like, if you get the Orthodox study Bible, it won't have. It won't have Enoch in it, but we will have all those books that the Catholics have that Protestants done.
- [29:21]
Top Lobster
Any thoughts on the Book of Enoch?
- [29:24]
Jay Dyer
I. I think that it has legitimate tradition. I mean, decided in the Book of Jude. So I don't see any problem with saying that, you know, there's legitimate tradition that's there. That's divine revelation. So, yeah, I mean, the orthodox view, like, divine revelation isn't restricted just to written Bible texts. We believe that there's oral tradition that comes from the apostles. There's. That's capital T, tradition. There's lower T tradition, like the way that, you know, the vestments are done in the church and that kind of stuff. So, like you mentioned the Pope's hat. We don't think that comes from Dagon. The. The origin of, like, vestments in the church has to do with the Book of Revelation and that we, we see the priests as analogues to the priests in the, in the Old Testament. So it's more like, you know, the outfit that the priest wears matches the type of outfit that you would see the priests in the Old Testament wearing.
- [30:22]
David Lee Corbo
So we talked about it at the top of this show where Alex Jones is now talking about his admiration of Orthodoxy. And we're in this time, you know, whether it was Covid or something like that that woke people up, or we talked about it earlier, this drag queen story hour, all these different things sort of built up and broke the dam where now it becomes impossible to look around and go, this isn't inherently spiritual, and we find ourselves in a really interesting place. I ask people if they think that we are in the beginning of maybe what you. You would call a revitalization, you know, because as I said, my path here was through all these world events, was through seeing all this occult symbolism and conspiracy theories and all these different things. I'm not unique in that. I think a lot of people have, have come through in that direction. And if that's true, then are we possibly seeing a resurgence in Christianity? And right now, Top and I were just talking about it maybe last week, where the emergence of a new. What would you call this, Top? Like, they're going to label it, like, white supremacy or, or anti Semitism or any number of things. Right. But like, the phrase Christ is king is now becoming this, this, like, hot button topic, which is fascinating because.
- [31:59]
Top Lobster
Yeah, I, I understand kind of like both sides of it. There's. There's a James Lindsay side where he's saying you're weaponizing it. And then there's another side that's saying, like, you know, like, you're actually glorifying Jesus. I'm in between. I think, I think people are doing all those things, but I feel like it's a necessary thing that has to happen. In order for the next. Whatever next steps to play out. So people will misuse this stuff and they'll use it as a battering ram. But the fact that it's in the meme, it's out there in the ether, and people are, like, thinking about this phrase a lot, says a lot about the times that we're in it. And Jay, I know you had a different take than we would have on the. The red heifers and things like that. And like these weird. What possibly seems like biblical prophecy unfolding could be obviously translated in multiple different ways. But it just. I can't help but feel that we're at a culmination and we're building up to something.
- [32:57]
David Lee Corbo
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- [33:50]
Top Lobster
Now, part of me, part of me is saying like, oh, it looks like ends and times, but people have said that forever. The other part of me is saying like, no, this is building up to. I mean, we're witnessing the collapse of an empire, and maybe it's that or maybe we're building up to something else. What are your thoughts on that?
- [34:11]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, a lot of questions there. A lot of issues. I think, in my view, the orthodox view on the end times is that we take some of those passages that are talked about, like in Luke 21 and Matthew 24, in what's called a partial preterist sense. And that means that the immediate context is Jesus talking about the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. and that's A. The sign that's supposed to occur that lets everyone know that the old Covenant is finished. So when the temple's gone, if you read Luke 21, because it's written for a gentile audience, it's a little clearer than what is in Matthew 24, all of that discourse. And Jesus says to the immediate audience standing in front of him, you here when you see this temple gone, then you'll know that the things written of in the prophets, that that vengeance has been completed has been fulfilled on this generation. So that's what we call partial preterism. It doesn't mean everything was fulfilled in 70 A.D. like the, the bodily second coming of Christ didn't occur, the resurrection didn't occur. But there were key elements of that destruction of the temple which foreshadowed the destruction and ending of the entire universe. The temple is a little model of the entire universe. It's God's house. And for example, if you look at the way that on the day of atonement, the high priest would walk into the holy of holies and sprinkle the blood on the mercy seat of the ark. If you read the book of Hebrews in chapters seven and eight, Hebrews states that Jesus ascending into heaven, the third heavens, the throne of God, and preparing the way for us in that ascent. That was the fulfillment of the high priest going into the holy of holies. So that tells us that the temple is kind of a little, a little model of the universe. When you walk into the temple, for example, there would be a lamp stand with the, the candelabra, and that represented the, the celestial luminaries, the planets. So it's, it's, it's a space, right? It's not just sacred space on earth. It represents the entire universe, which is God's tabernacle. In the same way, Christ's body is a tabernacle for God among us too. So it's, it's not one or the other, it's both. Long story short, the destruction of the temple is a sign not just of the end of the Old covenant under Moses, but it's a sign of the end of the universe. So we don't know when that would be. There is a great book on Antichrist and the end. It's written by a bunch of orthodox monks. It doesn't have an author. It comes from, I think, Jordanville Monastery. But that's a great book on this topic because it does mention certain signs that would accompany the end. End, the final end. And if there is a new temple built, that would be a sign of the coming of Antichrist according to the orthodox church. So while I did do some interviews where I was discussing the red heifer, that I don't think there's any immediate significance to that per se. If we start to see a temple if built, if we start to, I mean, they'd have to get rid of that mosque first. If we see, you know, the movement towards a world dictator that's being worshiped and the one world religion, we see that spirit already at work in the world. But I think that, you know, when we actually see it manifested, we'll. We'll know that that's like the legit end. So could. We could have another thousand years of history. I don't know. But it's also possible that we could be entering that time either. Either way is. Either thing is possible. And we could also be, like you said, kind of experiencing or seeing the beginnings of an actual revival.
- [37:53]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it's either a revival or, well, definitely a collapse. But, man, it does feel like we have some of these characters kind of put into place. Where. I'm a big fan of the Donnie Darkened. I don't know if you're familiar with him on Twitter, his theories on Donald Trump, and Donald Trump fulfilling that sort of role of the Antichrist that steps in. He already has all that juice with Israel. They have his face on a freaking coin that lets you into the temple when. Whenever they decide to erect.
- [38:19]
David Lee Corbo
It's like a lot on the coin. Top. It's. There's. It's. The King of Peace, is what it says on the coin. It says the King of Peace. And if I'm not mistaken, there is some sort of contention right now. They're waiting for the results to figure out if, genetically speaking, Donald Trump is of the lineage of the biblical King David. This is something that they're taking very seriously. It's like you can find articles on it. They're just kind of tucked away, and it's like, yeah, they're. They're waiting for those results. So Donnie Darken is somebody that Jay, you would probably find fascinating because he spends a lot of time connecting these dots as to why, like, even. Even Donald Trump's mother's maiden name was Christ. There's a lot of, like, really bizarre things that I don't know how much you get into it, but the idea that there is some sort of time traveling aspect with Donald Trump. If you look at the Ingersoll Lockwood books, if you look.
- [39:18]
Jay Dyer
I do have that book. I do have that book.
- [39:20]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, it's Top has it too, right?
- [39:22]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Top Lobster
I mean, that's. That's fun stuff.
- [39:24]
David Lee Corbo
That's fun stuff.
- [39:25]
Top Lobster
This. That's fun stuff. But then some of the other things around him, I'm just kind of like, this is getting a little too, like, uncomfortable.
- [39:32]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. I mean, in my opinion, and I'm familiar with. I did hear. I'd not heard of that dude in until the other day. I heard him asking David Ike some pretty good questions about, you know, David Ike pushing this, the new AG stuff. So that was an interesting clip. I. I would agree with the critique that he made of David Ike's worldview. Otherwise, I was not familiar with that guy. But, yeah, I. I wouldn't think that Trump has any direct, necessary connection to Antichrist. However, I do believe that the tendency that we see in evangelicalism towards millennialist Zionism is the spirit of Antichrist. Absolutely. So that's all just. I mean, the book of Hebrews, the book of Galatians is pretty clear that there's not ever going to be animal sacrifices again. And if there are, it has nothing to do with Christianity. I mean, that's a return to what Hebrews says is apostasy. So I definitely think that you're on the right track, that for the Jews to be deceived by an Antichrist figure, as Jesus says, if another comes in his name, him you will believe. So the Orthodox Church has typically said that Antichrist would have to most likely be a Jew to deceive Jews. So I think that that's the case. Personally, I wouldn't think that it would be Donald Trump, but you could argue that the spirit of what we see with. With goobers like John Hagee and these kind of people is definitely an Antichrist spirit for sure.
- [41:00]
Top Lobster
What do you. What do you make of, like, what's been going. I mean, it's, It's. It's fun to talk about on Twitter. I know. I don't know if you see the stuff I say, wild stuff about, like, you know, the Jewish question going on on Twitter. But paying attention to it more in a more focused manner is really what people should be doing. If you're like, red flags aren't going up with what they've been doing on that side there and, like, the behavior of some of their more prominent rabbis, like a shmuley. These things are. I'm like, what is going on in this religion and why right now is it turning almost to. To embrace this? Like, whatever. It almost feels like they're embracing an end game or something they've been building toward. Am I. Am I off on that?
- [41:45]
Jay Dyer
I mean, that's. I'm sure that in their perspective, you know, they have this idea that you can do these various works and some of the more mystical views, like even the evil works contribute to the great work of bringing forth, you know, the Messiah. So that seems to be part of the Talmudic and rabbinic tradition that all of these works are contributing to manifesting this salvation. But it's sort of like identical to what's going on in the New Testament when you have the figures of the zealots. And a couple of the zealots, right, became followers of Christ. And their idea was that it's all about worldly power, right? It's, it's almost analogous to what we were talking about earlier with the temptation to the papacy, right? The Roman bishop got tempted with this, this desire for building an army and taking over the world and being the, you know, God emperor, the Quizotarak and you. It's a similar temptation, I think, happens with what we're talking about. In my view, the, the Israel as we call it, this nation state will play a role whenever that end times comes of being perhaps this, this domain from which this false religion for the world comes about. Maybe, and I'm just speculating, this is my speculation, maybe we get like a future papacy that says, you know, Judaism is the real religion all along and we need to capitulate to that or something like that. So I would, in my view, Antichrist would be a figure, a state figure arising. An apostate church would be analog to something like Rome that we see in the book of Revelation. The harlot of Revelation, I would say, could be a good match for something like that. And then, you know, it pushes the, the, the false church, the whore church, pushes the worship of the beast, this, the state, this international super state. And then eventually the international super state casts off and doesn't need the anymore and basically says, you know, I'm God, whoever that entity or Antichrist figure is. So I think that's a, and that's kind of been my theory for a long time for like an apostate false religion. I think the Pope fits that perfectly, given that he's just capitulated more and more to. I don't know if you know about the relationship between like, the papacy and, and Israel. I mean, the papacy has more and more capitulated to basically worshiping the Old Testament God. Or like they, the papacy's even said stuff like, you know, Jews can be saved without they don't need Jesus. Like, they have their own path and covenant to God, which is, is the kind of thing I'm talking about. So anyway, I'm rambling.
- [44:25]
Top Lobster
No, no, that's perfect because, because as you're going like, a couple thoughts. What are your thoughts on the star of Rimfan? And, and that, that part of the.
- [44:33]
Jay Dyer
Scripture, it does seem like that star probably is a six sided star. I don't know if, if for sure that the reason that Jews adopted that star necessarily has to do with ancient Rim fan worship. It could be. I'm not, I'm not positive, but I do think that the star of Rinfan is supposed to be. That six sided star is supposed to signify like Saturn and you know, the worship of like human or it's a, it has human sacrifice as part of its ideology. So there's probably something to that. I but I just don't know if it's really been confirmed if the modern nation state of Israel has that star. Because I know some people theorize that the Sabatian cult that exists, that they had a reverence for that star or there was a kind of a Kabbalistic reverence for that symbol. Any of those things are possible. I'm not sure.
- [45:25]
David Lee Corbo
It's a fascinating line because it even mentions not only does it represent REM fan, but also of Moloch, they're mentioned in the same sentence. And that's just, it's just bizarre because you know, a lot of what we're talking about here is all these things coming to a head, a sort of a culmination of bizarre biblical events and high level noticing. Right. Everybody can't stop noticing the spirituality and, and the backdrop has been painted with Moloch since you know, Epstein's island and the Hillary Clinton emails and all these different things. And now as we're moving forward and, and you know, Top says that there's like this big Jew question on Twitter constantly and you find this reference to the star of Remphan directly next to a reference of Moloch. And the language is such that it's a little bit harder because it says it's of REM Fan but not of Moloch something. There's a difference.
- [46:27]
Top Lobster
You've taken up the tabernacle of Moloch.
- [46:29]
David Lee Corbo
There you go. And so, but you know, that's when, if you're a conspiracy theorist, oh, the bells are going off. You're looking at that and you're going, what the hell is going on? These two things. And then you know, people will break down, well, it's a six pointed star and it's got six triangles that make up the points and it's got a hexagram in the center which is a six sided, you know, geometrical shape. And that's the same thing that's on Saturn's north pole, you know. And so REM Fan and Saturn And Moloch and all these things are somehow intrinsically connected. And when you go to try to dispel that, it seems really hard to find any mention that that symbol represents. Represents David. That's what. Yeah, it's hard to find that reference, right?
- [47:21]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, I think you're right that like there's not a direct connection anywhere, biblically speaking, between the hexagram and David. But I'm just saying that if we begin to see the hexagram associated with the nation state of Israel, you know, around the time of the Rothschilds or whatever, I'm not exactly sure when that star begins to be symbolic of the nation state of Israel. There is a tradition that perhaps even goes back ancient, more ancient than that, where Philo says something like there was a tradition that, that Solomon, you know, had created a ring. Now the keys of Solomon is a later forgery. But Philo does talk about. I remember I took a note of this when I was reading through some of. No, excuse me, not Philo, Josephus. So Josephus talks about this tradition in his day of the various sigils that Solomon used and then he had a ring of this sort of sigil. But if I recall it wasn't a six sided star. I think it was a five sided star. So maybe by the time of the emergence of the keys of Solomon in the 1500 or 1600s, wherever that's a fake document, it's not from Solomon. They might have been pulling from this statement from Josephus and then added in as a six sided star or something like that. I don't know. But regardless of all that, I think that there's a more evident example where, if we look at where Stephen in Acts 8 is pulling, pulling from. He's talking about the whole history of Israel, right? I mean the nation state of Israel from the time of Mount Sinai onwards is constantly tempted with turning to the, the pagan worship of the nations around them. And that includes, you know, like sex rights that we see in numbers BAAL pure and human sacrifice which is mentioned in book of Jeremiah. You know, this is why it's forbidden in Exodus and in Numbers to, to do, in Leviticus to do that kind of sacrifice because the nations around Israel were tempting them with it. They continually fell into that worship. Thus so much of the prophetic literature, whether it's Jeremiah or Hosea or whoever is railing against that kind of human sacrifice, harlot temptation that Israel is tempted with. So I mean we don't have to like that. That's in the tradition I think of the erroneous, side of Judaism. Right. I mean, this is the Babylonian Talmud, I think, includes a lot of speculations about magical practices, the Zohar, these kinds of things, you know, include these practices, which not necessarily every Jew did, but within the. The Rabbinic Judaism, Judaism tradition, you've got. You've got rationalists like Maimonides, you've got esotericists and occultists like maybe Nachmanides, who's a Kabbalist. So you do have these different strands within the history of Judaism where they would engage in magical practices, creating of amulets and this kind of stuff. So I think that there's always been this strand present in various strands of rabbinic Judaism that's.
- [50:30]
Top Lobster
It's so interesting. And that's what really makes the Bible interesting, going back and reading it from the beginning, because, you know, just in the. In the Ten Commandments, he said, you shall take no gods before me. And before. That's kind of like, what does that mean? But obviously, we've named the show Nephilim Death Squad. And then you start to get into fallen angels and their offspring, and you're talking. I mean, then you can go down the line through historical figures in the Egyptian line and in the Greek pantheon. And now we're talking about actual small G gods that have had power here on Earth. And maybe at one point, we're actually, like, in a physical body here that people were worshiping, and that's long since been forgotten. And we. We kind of like, replicate what they wanted with sacrifice, child sacrifice. I mean, America is doing it right now with freaking Planned Parenthood.
- [51:20]
Jay Dyer
It's the right.
- [51:20]
Top Lobster
The largest human sacrifice machine ever. So, like, when we say, like, are we living in the end times? I'm like, you know, everybody said that, but I'm like, today they just killed a million babies. Maybe. What does that do to the world? What kind of, like, that kind of bloodshed. The most innocent bloodshed of. Of a child, like, in certain locations. What does that do? What does that mean? Like, we were doing this before, but on this kind of a scale, it's almost unheard of at this point.
- [51:48]
Jay Dyer
Just. This is just an interesting side note. One of those. Ginsburg. Remember the beat poet Ginsburg? He said on one of his drug trips, he interacted with Molech, and he. He felt like that the 60s counterculture was manifesting the entity known as Molech. Which is interesting because, like, this is when you start to see the push for, you know, Abrashan, so to speak.
- [52:17]
Top Lobster
Yeah, Sexual. Sexual deviancy.
- [52:20]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. He says that there's A book where he talks about this. It's. There's a book, it's a normie book on the history of the sixties counterculture called Storming Heaven by Jay Stevens. And there's a whole chapter on Ginsburg and his, you know, drug trips and what he saw and experienced. And he's like, yeah, I saw Molech. And Molech was telling me, like, you know, I'm going to be the God of America. And I thought that was pretty crazy. I mean, that was almost like. It's almost like a demonic version of prophecy, right? Where he's like saying that that's what's going to happen anyway. But aside from Molech, I mean, yeah, I think the, the best explanation for what's happening is demonic. Absolutely. Like, the demons hate humanity because humanity's made the image of God and thus they hate anything that reminds them of God. And also, Christ took on human nature. So the very being they hate didn't assume angelic nature. He assumed human nature. And so this is part of the source of a lot of the rivalry and envy that the demons have for humanity. And so they want to destroy it. And I think that, yeah, ultimately all of the, the religions out there that aren't Christianity, they always tend in this direction. I'm not saying every person in those religions is demonic, but that if you're part of that spirit, that as time progresses, they're more and more going to participate in that spirit of anti Christianity. Even Islam is, you know, according to John, Antichrist, because John says he that does not confess Christ coming in the flesh. God and flesh is of the spirit of Antichrist. And I mean, the biggest, the biggest anti Christian religion on the face of the planet is, is Islam. So I used to think, like maybe 10 years ago I didn't know a lot about Islam. I mean, I knew a lot about Christian metaphysics and theology and apologetics, but I didn't know much about Islam. And I thought, well, you know, they got a few things wrong, but they're kind of based or whatever, but they're not. It's a, it's crazy. I mean, when you really get into Islam, as I have in the last, like four or five years, you start to see like, this is, this is really bad news. And I'm not trying to say that Rabbinic Judaism isn't bad, but I think Rabbinic Judaism has no problem with Islam attacking Christianity. You know what I mean? Like, they see it as, as perhaps something they don't really care about. But anyway, I'm rambling.
- [54:33]
Top Lobster
Do you, dude, would you. So by that nature, do you think. Would you say that Christianity is almost. I. I think. I think that Christianity is in direct conflict with Judaism. Like, that's the battle that has been going on. And again, this is like this become like a JQ episode, but it kind of is. And Christianity, I don't think really is aware of that. Or maybe they're becoming aware of this.
- [54:53]
Jay Dyer
Well, the last couple talks I did, like, on the fourth hour of Alex, a couple shows back, was about the deception through dispensationalism of the Schofield Study Bible and, you know, like, Christian Zionism and all that. Yeah, I mean, that's been a tremendous, massive deception. And there's a really good case to be made that part of the reason Oxford University was so adamant about pushing the Scofield Study Bible in America was to prepare for the geopolitical moves that the British Empire had had planned out with Balfour Declaration. So I think that makes perfect sense. I mean, the Scofield Study Bible still. Still printed by Oxford University, which, again, makes absolutely no sense. Like, Oxford University is not known for, you know, weird. Chris. Like, it's not John Hagee type of stuff. Weird. Why are they pushing this and printing it for so long, this absurd Scofield Study Bible? Well, because it props up the very error that you're talking about.
- [55:52]
Top Lobster
And this. And this was like, this is the impetus of my disagreement or my hate for the Daily Wire, despite ruining. I mean, maybe it's because they ruined my only time on Tim cast, but most likely it's because they have been so subversive it to the. To the Christian boomer community, the Christian conservative boomer audience. And it's. It's an op that's been so thoroughly run just recently, I was, like, arguing with Matt Walsh about the whole 9 to 5 idea. I don't know if you saw this, but, like, it's to. To demoralize your audience in such a way. And I'm not saying, like, again, I recap this ad notion, but, like, 9 to 5 is not a bad thing. But, like, striving for more is. Is a bad thing according to the Daily Wire, and it's just kind of disgusting. But it's also in line with almost everything else that they've been pushing.
- [56:46]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, I was. I called them out a couple weeks ago, which surprised me because that my tweet kind of went viral talking about how the thing that annoys me that they're always talking about how this is, like, my number one gripe with con Inc. Man, they're always just talking about the boobs in Washington. And we're run by idiots. And it' like. No, dude, we're run by cunning technocratic psychopaths like Brzezinski, Kissinger. What do you mean we're run by idiots? It's just. It's all deflecting into. As if Joe Biden's running the country. Right. I mean, that's just the. This is just classic Boomer crap. Dude. We're so past this. People have moved on past this. And so I'm just. It just annoys me that these people have such huge audiences still.
- [57:27]
Top Lobster
Dude, that's what I'm saying. It annoys me because just today it's Joe Biden again. Like, every time I see a Joe Biden video, my amusement level goes down. Like, at first I was like, this is very funny. We can make good content off of this. Like, I do funny shit sometimes. The last one I seen where he said, another four years, pause, and then they chant afterward. I'm like, this is like, I'm distressed at this point. It's almost like they're psychologically torturing me, like, telling us that we know. Like, we know, you know, that, like, he's not running this shit. Like, we don't even care anymore. The. The more he messes up, the better. And the more you have to think about, like, what's actually happening here. These are. These are dumb. They're dumb people because they've given themselves over to whatever kind of spirits that are influencing them. Yeah, they're done that. Right. But they're absolutely cunning and they're dangerous.
- [58:21]
Jay Dyer
How did they ruin your tempcast? What do you mean?
- [58:24]
Top Lobster
I went on in, like, I don't even know last year.
- [58:26]
Jay Dyer
If you don't let me ask.
- [58:28]
Top Lobster
Yeah. And if you ever watch Tim cast, like, an episode.
- [58:32]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, but I was on last January, I think.
- [58:35]
Top Lobster
Okay. Oh, so I was on last January, too. Okay. So usually you go on and there's at least four topics covered. We talked about nothing but Steven Crowder and the Daily Wire for two hours. And I just. Basically, I was like, I don't. I had to stay quiet on some of the opinions I had because my friends were coming after they had booked this all in succession. And I was just like, this is awful. And it was the most boring.
- [58:59]
Jay Dyer
Oh, you mean the Daily Wire indirectly ruined it? Because it was all about Daily Wire. Like, you couldn't directly. I thought you meant, like, they heard.
- [59:06]
David Lee Corbo
That top was coming.
- [59:08]
Jay Dyer
This is Benjamin Beer. I'm calling right now get him off there, get him off their facts and logic.
- [59:11]
Top Lobster
Shut it down.
- [59:15]
Jay Dyer
You know, I don't want to see Top Lobster. Shut it down.
- [59:17]
David Lee Corbo
I wanted to go back to something you said before, Jay. I found it incredibly fascinating, this idea that this, this guy, he's, you know, being subjected to these LSD experiments and he has an encounter with Moloch. And if you take into consideration the idea that the entire counterculture revolution was manufactured or at least co opted soon after its inception and then steered by, you know, these intelligence agencies, right, the people that are running these experiments that are subjecting these johns, right, to LSD and all these different things. First for sure they have to be getting these patterns back. Like, oh, they're Moloch's been mentioned again. I don't know, some, some, some entity. Moloch. Oh, there he goes. He mentioned Moloch too, right? After a while they have to have an idea that they're communing with entities because how many people come back from a DMT trip, or any trip for that matter, and have communed with some sort of entity? And once you start to establish a pattern there, you can start to imagine, well, they're going somewhere and they're communicating with something almost reliably in the sense that we can, you know, show a pattern here. So a lot of the times I would think to myself, what benefit do the intelligence agencies have? And I'm sure there's many because it's never just one thing, it's multiple birds with one stone. What benefit do they have by pushing this drug culture? You know, if you're talking about the crack epidemic, that one's pretty cut and dry with, you know, destroying the family unit in the black communities and funding the Iran Contra wars, all these different things. But with the LSD movement to even entertain for a moment that they were fucking bringing Moloch into this dimension, that they were giving this entity enough energy from enough encounters with people that eventually they would bring back into this reality to some sense. An Old Testament deity that the Canaanites worshiped is. I don't want to have this crazy. It's cool as I gotta dig up.
- [61:15]
Jay Dyer
That quote where they, where he talks about it, it's in that J. Stevens book. And to be precise, although you actually could be onto something I had thought about, which is a lot of these dudes, like the Beat poets and these sort of counterculture figures, they actually did have fed ties, all quite a bit. I don't know if Ginsburg himself did, but I would not be Surprised. But according to him, like, he was just like, no, I'm doing this on my own to, you know, be a wild man and, you know, I'm gonna go back to being a. To nature and, you know, being not part of your civilization, dude. Yeah, pretty much. But I wouldn't be surprised given how many of the other characters, like Tim Leary and even perhaps McKenna, you know, they had Fed ties. So I wouldn't be surprised. In fact, Leary, there's a clip, you can still find it on YouTube, where he says you can. You can trace the entire account of 60s counterculture to the CIA. He's like, if you like it, you can thank the CIA for that. So why the LSD for the. The. The emerging white kids and not. I think that they probably did a lot of experimentation about which drugs worked best for which types of people or groups of people. Huxley said a lot of his research when he was talking about experimenting with LSD before they released it to, you know, the white kids in the west, was that it had the ability to break down all of your boundaries and kind of.
- [62:44]
David Lee Corbo
Change.
- [62:47]
Jay Dyer
It's. It's a drug that radically changes a person in many cases, not every discernment.
- [62:52]
David Lee Corbo
Or not discernment in the sense of, like, spiritual discernment, but you're otherwise being closed off from people, guarded from people.
- [62:59]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, like. Like a person, like, they would talk about how persons who grew up, maybe with a more of a conservative bent, wanted to go to college and, you know, become a, you know, accountant or whatever, that after they would do these drugs, they were totally different people. So it sort of broke down all their boundaries, their sense of self, their sense of connection to their family, to their nation state.
- [63:19]
David Lee Corbo
We noticed that this one makes them gay and homeless.
- [63:23]
Jay Dyer
Which one?
- [63:25]
David Lee Corbo
Lsd. Any of the psychedelics. This one very effectively turns okay and makes them homeless. Let's give them that one.
- [63:34]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, I think. Yeah. I mean, so there's actually studies, right, where they talked about. So Huxley talks about it just basically as a potential cultural revolution drug. So I think that's why they wanted to see if it would do that. Other people talk about it doing this. John C. Lilly talks about it as a thing. Oh, I forgot. Yeah. Like, Leary, I think, even says that his. His thought was you could initiate an entire generation through. In like a shamanic way to a new shamanic religion through these. Terence McKenna, he says in his book Food of the gods, that the 60s counterculture. I kid you not. This actually ties into your. To your gay comment. He says that if Everybody took hallucinogens and LSD and all this stuff. Then we would finally return to the worship of the goddess and we would stop being masculine, like alphas. He says that. Wow. Yeah.
- [64:31]
David Lee Corbo
I actually have that book. I never read it because I'm retarded. But that's fascinating, because the first chapter, he says that.
- [64:37]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [64:37]
David Lee Corbo
Wow.
- [64:37]
Top Lobster
You didn't even get past the first chapter.
- [64:39]
David Lee Corbo
I never even opened that. It just looks cool on my shelf. That's crazy, man, because.
- [64:45]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. And also says in a video, by the way, you can find it on YouTube. Somebody was asking me the other day, though, I can't find this video. It's still there. I promise you. It's something like what the mushroom. What the mushroom said to me. And when you play it, Terence McKenna says, you might think the mushroom told me that everyone needs to save the earth or get rid of the brown people. No, the mushroom said that the white soccer moms in California need to stop having children. So that literally. Literally, the mushroom is telling him, like, exactly what the CFR and the globalist want. Right.
- [65:21]
David Lee Corbo
It's like, oh, that is fucking fascinating, dude.
- [65:24]
Top Lobster
It's. It's. I. I think I'll send you guys that clip.
- [65:27]
Jay Dyer
I'll find it later also.
- [65:28]
Top Lobster
Yes, please. It might be a misconception that a mushroom is doing this, or. We're big fans of portals, Tony Merkel fans. So it's. To me, it just seems like a lot of these things, like LSD mushrooms, methamphetamine, they're just tools to open up a portal in. Into different.
- [65:45]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [65:45]
Top Lobster
Direction. Father.
- [65:46]
Jay Dyer
Father Seraphim Rose. Some of the orthodox writers say this, that because he used to do psychedelics before he became orthodox, and he talks about it opening up that spiritual porter. Yeah.
- [65:55]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. I. I've had experiences. I did a lot of mushrooms one time, and I didn't have anything negative happen to me. But what I can say definitively is that my thoughts were not my own. I was being given to think about. Yeah. It was like in. It was like somebody turned a faucet on, and I was just getting drenched with information because I remember my reaction to it specifically was like, huh, that's interesting.
- [66:23]
Jay Dyer
Huh?
- [66:24]
David Lee Corbo
Okay. Like, it was. Everything was as if I was looking at it. So it very much feels like, you know, we bring them up every episode. We just brought him up on the previous episode. But Dr. Jerry Marzinski is a clinical psychologist for 35 years in the field.
- [66:36]
Top Lobster
We should just get a drop. I'm just gonna get a drop, like, on the roadcaster that just does this speed feel because we do it. It's disgusting. It's like, hold on, we're gonna pull up the clip of Jerry Marzig.
- [66:47]
David Lee Corbo
But he's an awesome guy. He dealt with schizophrenia, and he came to the conclusion after all his schooling and everything, that this was, in fact, spiritual in nature and that these people were under the influence by demonic entities. And he said that drugs act as a portal to commune with these things. And the most effective one that mirrors schizophrenia almost exactly is methamphetamine.
- [67:09]
Jay Dyer
Interesting. Yeah. Huxley says as well that he noticed early on when he was experimenting with lsd, both on himself and with other people, that it seemed to have the ability to induce schizophrenia and dissociation. So they knew that early on. And I forgot to mention, there's a really important white paper you guys should check out. It's pretty famous. It's produced in concert with Stanford Research Institute, which was, together with Esalen Institute, was spearheading a lot of this 60s counterculture stuff from the establishment, by the way, not from a grassroots thing. It's called Changing Images of Man. Have you heard of that?
- [67:46]
Top Lobster
No.
- [67:46]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, you gotta. You gotta check this out. It's a famous Stanford white paper which talks about the cult, the. The cultural revolution and how they wanted it to happen and. And where they wanted it to go to. Basically. Basically just create a bunch of idiots who pretended that they're shaman. You know what we see, like, you know, with yoga, Instagram chicks, You know, yoga, Instagram chicks, that's what they wanted because those are the kind of people that will fit better into the coming technocracy. So changing.
- [68:15]
David Lee Corbo
Like, did you see that crusty with the big titties? The white chick who sings about, like, pyramids and communing with entities? And she's, like, really popular amongst.
- [68:24]
Jay Dyer
This sounds like a great, like, material for a live stream.
- [68:28]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, dude, you'll. If you see her, you'll hate her. But she's gotten, by the way, viral.
- [68:32]
Top Lobster
By the way, would. But she's a smoke show.
- [68:36]
David Lee Corbo
But she's a completely. You know that she smells like, like ass fungus and cat litter. But she is kind of a phenom, right? Amongst the younger generation of girls. I have a niece who's, like, obsessed with her. And my niece now has one crusty dreadlock. And it's. I have this to thank. But she. She is all about taking mushrooms and LSD and communing with entities. And she. She makes songs about that. She says channeling. She's like, let me ask you this.
- [69:06]
Top Lobster
Jay, because you, you just put up the idea of a communal indoctrination, I think you said, with the, the culture. Yeah. So when you're talking about like astrology girls or, you know, like everyone's reading the horoscope or where everyone's doing yoga, which yoga is great for stretching, but it also, they're doing it in a way, like a spiritual way, even though they might not be touching exactly what it's supposed to be, because they're mimicking these things. They're going through the, the motions of it. Or even like our boy Paul would talk about clowns in the nephilim, how clowns resemble the nephilim by dressing up, by memeing these things. Is there any kind of actual initiation happening culturally? It's short. It's seems that way. What are your thoughts on that?
- [69:47]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, that was the purpose of pushing all this eastern stuff. So, you know, this is, I mean, again, Changing Images, man is one of the documents from the establishment that talks about it. Larry talks about it, McKenna talks about it. And I don't view those people as legitimate counterculture people. I think they were like, fake, you know, establishment given counterculture people to change society. Like, for example, Gordon Watson, the dude that went and discovered the. Discovered the entheogens that they synthesize LSD from. He was a banker working with like, working out of like, I think JP Morgan or something, but he worked for the Macy foundation and he went to Latin South America to try to find these hallucinogens. And this is where we actually get like the synthesized LSD that, that Sandoz Pharmaceuticals created for the CIA, if I remember, with Abby Hoffman and all that. But they put him on the front of Time magazine. Okay, that's. Time magazine was run by Henry Lewis, the, the CIA Skull and Bones guy. Why are they promoting mushrooms on the COVID of Time magazine if it's a counterculture? You know what I mean? So I, I think that that the thesis that this was pushed from the, the top down is way more sensible because they realized that it had a tremendous effect for social engineering. So it's everywhere, dude.
- [71:11]
Top Lobster
I mean, from Joe Rogan, that's like us like people that listen to podcasts do. Podcasts are in online. And then you go to Target, and in Target they have like just hoodies, Walmart hoodies, like with like little Walmart things. And it'll be like, taste the rainbow. I'm like, what the is this talking. You're talking about, like going on a trip in Walmart. But this is it's.
- [71:30]
David Lee Corbo
A lot of mushroom stuff too, right. Like shirts with mushrooms on. I see that all the time when I go shopping with my kid. There's a lot of like, shirts with fungus on them. I'm like, what? The kids just love fungus, fungus, space and dinosaurs. I'm like, all these things are lies.
- [71:42]
Jay Dyer
But yeah, everything faking gay is.
- [71:45]
David Lee Corbo
Everything faking gays. They market towards children. But that concept is really fascinating. Right. Is like initiating an entire population of people so you inundate them with drugs. So now a vast majority of the population is on a drug of some sort.
- [72:00]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [72:00]
David Lee Corbo
And then you saturate their subliminal mind or their subconscious mind with subliminal messaging. In all the media that you take in, there are esoteric symbols, Masonic symbols, you know, Satanic symbolism in almost everything that you absorb that's given to you through the mainstream at least, you know. So I would be hard pressed to find a show on Netflix that didn't have something hidden somewhere in the background. Right.
- [72:28]
Top Lobster
Oh, you know what? Not to interrupt you, but Jay, you've gone deep on this show. I think that it's. It's been you that's been talking about it, right? An old show. Getting the name. Is it you or Isaac?
- [72:40]
David Lee Corbo
No, you're confused. You're confusing Isaac. Isaac does Twin Peaks.
- [72:45]
Jay Dyer
We both did. I'm not, I'm not knocking Isaac, but Isaac. I'm the one that kind of got Isaac into Twin Peaks and then he went, he went a lot deeper with Twin Peaks than I did.
- [72:53]
David Lee Corbo
But apparently you can go that deep. Like there's just so much in that show.
- [72:57]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, it's really deep. Yeah, I remember. So I put my essay on it in the first esoteric Hollywood book that came out, 2016. And the reason I wrote that essay was that I had a. I had a sense that, that David Lynch's show was dealing with like Crowley and stuff and the demonic realm and portals through rituals and drug use and all that. But it was just my thesis from the show and then Mark Frost, who's the co. Creator of Twin Peaks with David lynch, he put out a book in 2017, I think, year after my thing came out. And basically in his book, it's like the whole history of Twin Peaks. Like there's chapters on Crowley, there's chapters on Jack Parsons, there's chapters on everything. Like way more so than I expected. So that really vindicated the. The thesis that, you know, Twin Peaks is about this kind of stuff, the stuff we're talking about today. And then, yeah, Isaac went like A lot deeper with it. With his, you know, he's done like a whole, he's on a podcast on like the whole, like three series. Three, three seasons.
- [73:57]
David Lee Corbo
So how old is that show?
- [74:01]
Jay Dyer
Twin Peaks? Started in like 92 or 93. I remember when it came out, it was, and it was. What's weird is that that was on network tv. I mean, it's just such a bizarre show, you know, you would never see something like that on network TV nowadays.
- [74:15]
David Lee Corbo
That's interesting. Do you think that that kind of falls into that mass initiation that we're kind of hinting at? You know, what purpose does that serve if. Or is it sitting there and you're absorbing that, but you don't realize it on the surface?
- [74:29]
Top Lobster
Like that hermetic principle where they have.
- [74:30]
Jay Dyer
To tell you my revelation method or. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't, I mean, you know, David lynch is obviously not Christian in any sense. He sends, he seems to be interested in, you know, he's a big proponent of transcendental meditation and he's influenced by like, Tibetan Buddhism and this kind of stuff. So he's definitely not coming at it from any kind of Christian perspective. But I do think sometimes pop culture stuff and, and even something like Tibetan Buddhism, like it can inadvertently hit on the ideas of demonic entities being contacted through portholes. You know, this kind of, I mean, that's what happens in the show, right? So, so I think even the pagans can, can touch on this kind of stuff accidentally. So I think that's what's going on with David Lynch. I mean, he could be way more into deeper stuff than I know. But I don't get the impression that he's like, what am I trying to say? I don't know that he's, I don't know that he sat there being like, okay, we serve Satan. What can we put out, you know, to dupe the public? I, I, I, he seems to just be kind of like one of these, you know, la avant garde auteur filmmakers who got into Buddhism and, you know, you know, like, if you've been to la, there's a lot of people out there that are, you know, into Buddhism, you know what I mean? And they're kind of idiots.
- [75:56]
David Lee Corbo
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- [76:43]
Jay Dyer
So I don't know that he was. But I mean, he could be way more well connected than I know.
- [76:47]
Top Lobster
It's kind of like an idiot touching on the truth kind of thing. Yeah, the guy that. Sorry to interrupt, Dave, but the guy that created or he wrote Noah. Forget his name, he's pretty famous. Screenwriter, same sort of thing. I'm like, how much does this guy actually know? He knows enough to name the fallen angels.
- [77:06]
Jay Dyer
Are you talking about Darren Aronofsky?
- [77:09]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [77:10]
Jay Dyer
Well, he. So he's actually like a kabbalist. He's into like hardcore kabbalistic stuff.
- [77:16]
Top Lobster
Okay, so he knows.
- [77:17]
Jay Dyer
So his first movie was PI, and PI is about Kabbalah and then. And Gematria.
- [77:24]
Top Lobster
He did another as well, right?
- [77:26]
Jay Dyer
Oh, really? I don't know.
- [77:27]
Top Lobster
Yeah, that's another freaky one. I gotta go.
- [77:29]
Jay Dyer
Oh, oh, you said. I thought you said his mother. No, the movie mother. Yes, correct. Yeah, yeah, I was like, I don't know about his mom. Then he did the movie. I did a whole analysis of the Fountain with Rachel Weiss and Hugh Jackman. That's also a kabbalistic movie. He did Noah and then analysis of that a long time ago. And then he did Black Swan, which is like trauma based mind control. So I, I think actually of all the, like, he probably. He probably like, is way more initiated than. Than most of the directors of any of them.
- [78:03]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Because just thinking about what he did with Noah, to me, that's the most important story to be told right now. The. This idea of the fallen angels and he's completely taking it in, twisted it great. It looked really cool. But to. To twist it that much and then say, like, well, it was man. All of a sudden. You know how he told the story? It was man. And he tried to kill his kids and all this.
- [78:28]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, there was some weird propaganda. There was like vegan propaganda too, in that. Which is weird.
- [78:32]
Top Lobster
A lot of weird gay stuff. But the most important thing was that these fallen angels were given redemption. It's like, well that's not what I read. That's not how I heard this thing go down.
- [78:41]
Jay Dyer
So. No.
- [78:42]
Top Lobster
What are you.
- [78:43]
Jay Dyer
Redemption for the fallen angels, right? I mean, I mean even the Book of Enoch's right? Like they're not, they're, they're imprisoned to never be set free. Right. So.
- [78:51]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, they wanted him for a dream too. Somebody in the chat said that. You ever see Requiem for a Dream?
- [78:57]
Top Lobster
Oh, he did that too.
- [78:58]
Jay Dyer
I'm familiar with it, yeah.
- [78:59]
David Lee Corbo
I mean I'm only familiar with the one scene.
- [79:01]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, everybody knows that one, but. Scene. Yeah.
- [79:05]
David Lee Corbo
Seems up his alley though.
- [79:06]
Jay Dyer
That's. Yeah, that's another kind of mind control, MK Ultra Dissociation type of movie. Exactly. It's about like drug people addicted to heroin or something.
- [79:14]
David Lee Corbo
I just know it's about two chicks jamming a cucumber in their asses or something like that.
- [79:18]
Jay Dyer
But, but they're, but the whole. They're druggies, right? So it's, it's like a drug culture movie. Like train spotting that was a hot, like heroin addicts was like a cool topic in the, you know, late 90s, 2000s. There was one other. Oh, I meant going to tell you guys to watch this movie. It's not a very good movie, but it's a perfect illustration of what we're talking about. It's called Altered States and it's about John C. Lilly and the float tanks and his dissociating and interacting with the entities.
- [79:50]
David Lee Corbo
Shout out to Donut. That's Illuminati dolphins.
- [79:54]
Jay Dyer
Exactly. Yeah.
- [79:56]
David Lee Corbo
You know, it's so hard not to think that, you know, in the most conspiratorial of ways, like were they trying to push an agenda or were they just making happy mistakes and happened to have a lot of this esoteric information and wanted to create something or were they trying to move culture? Because it's like we're talking about the counterculture and the drug movement and the anti war movement all being co opted by these three letter agencies and then manufactured to the great extent that they eventually were these big influential movements over the United States. And we alluded to before the crack epidemic of the 80s and the 90s, you know, funding the Iran Contra wars, funneling cocaine into the, the hoods, destroying the family unit, essentially destroying, I'm sorry, the black family unit and destroying black communities like almost permanently. And now you look at today what's going on with this whole Diddy thing and it's like, oh well, Diddy's been running this blackmail operation for 30 years and that blackmail operation is in hip hop. And hip hop has been culturally engineering. It's been the most culturally impactful movement of the last 30 years. Is it. Is that a crazy thing to say? Do you think hip hop, as far as the culture that it's embedded or imbued upon America, has been the most influential of any other number one genre of music or anything? I mean, really hip hop. No, I think that's absolutely driving cultural force. So it's like, you know, we're talking about these directors and whether or not they had malicious intent. And you really can't even blame people for going there because none of our culture for the past, everything's been engineered, everything's been created and pushed on us. And you can see exactly what was done and what the ramifications of it were. And like I said, right now we're sitting in the middle of this Diddy thing where it's like, everybody's like, oh, Diddy was doing butt sex stuff. And it's like, yeah, that's funny. Diddy was engineering the culture of the United States. Him and a bunch of other people who haven't been named. Right. Cuz Diddy is this fall guy. He's just kind of the flavor of the. The month. What we're really saying here, guys, is that it's all a fabrication and that the most impactful, driving cultural force of the past 30 years is a fabrication. And what. What is it? What fruits did it bear? Well, it destroyed us. Hip hop destroyed us, man.
- [82:20]
Jay Dyer
Like, yeah, hip hop is faking gay. And that's what everybody's like.
- [82:24]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [82:26]
Jay Dyer
You mean the most, like, machismo, you know, genre of sort of music is faking. Yep. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, literally, it went global too. Right? Like, you think about other genres that, I mean, like, maybe punk music kind of went global. Maybe grunge went kind of a little, but nothing like the way hip hop went global. Global to where, you know, you got rich, Brian, right? You got Chinese rappers, you've got, like. I mean, you got. Rap is everywhere. So I think you're spot on with that. I mean, one point I would say about how do we. How do we know, like, when somebody is intentionally doing this propaganda in their movies or something? I think when you look at the blockbusters, I mean, there's actual documentation of, you know, paying to have propaganda in movies. That's. There's multiple books on this. I cite books in my. My second Hollywood book on this topic so that we can verify 100 that like, the blockbusters almost always have pretty high level propaganda, more weird avant garde stuff that could just be, you know, individual artists just influenced by weird demonic. Like I remember when I was in undergrad I had my. My best friend was getting his degree in art and at the university level you usually have to do like a senior show of. For your art, whatever that is. And all the other artists are there as well. And at the same time, my girlfriend at the time, her sister was getting an art degree from Vanderbilt, so she had a show. And I remember going to both of these and what the weird part was that I mean, obviously none of these people knew each other or anything like that. But all of the undergraduate artists in there, it doesn't matter what medium it was, whether it was photography, whether it was like, you know, pencil sketch or whether it was painting or whatever. Like it was all demonic. And I just found that to be odd. Like none of these people know each other. They're not like colluding in the same coven. Maybe nowadays they would be part of the same coven. But this is like 2003, 3, 4, 5, 6. And everybody's artwork is like. And they would explain the art in their presentations, like, well, this is what I was dreaming about or this is what. When I was doing lsd, like what came to me. And it's all demonic stuff, even to the point of like one whole presentation was on the sacrifice of a child in Abrashan, right? So like here's people that they don't believe in God, they don't have any faith in anything. What's. Why are they all being influenced with the same demonic. And some of them, we'd even say like spirits that came to me and influenced me, like, why is it all demonic? So those people aren't intentionally, you know, part of some CIA plan. They're just influenced by demonic spirits to put out, you know, like just awful, disgusting art. And I think the same thing goes on with, you know, people who are influenced by, by these powers, these spirits in most arts music as well. And then at a high level, when you get to like the big blockbusters, that's when they're like, okay, we need to intentionally put in the propaganda of, you know, skittle stuff, you know, anti this country. We need to go to war with this country. I mean they've been doing that, you know, warfare propaganda forever in movies.
- [85:52]
Top Lobster
So tomorrow we're actually talking to Ed Mabry again. And I was re listening to our last episode with him and we were talking about like he said he doesn't believe a Christian can Be like, inhabited or possessed because you're filled with. You're already filled with the spirit. Your body is filled. And I tend to agree with that. You were saying why. Why would this person in art school want to create something that is glorifying, basically a demon? And they don't know. Well, they don't. They're not filled with anything else. So they're kind of an empty vessel for this to pass through and manifest itself in this way. And it's, it's interesting talking about the arts of. We had Arthur Kwan Leon last week and.
- [86:36]
Jay Dyer
Oh, yeah, yeah. We're. We're. We're buddies. We chat.
- [86:38]
Top Lobster
Yeah. His. His reaction or the reaction to his artwork. Not surprising, but still eye opening in that. In that world. I've got. My wife's. They're. They're famous artists. So I, I've heard from them and I've seen, like, what that art world in New York City looks like.
- [86:58]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [86:59]
Top Lobster
And it's completely rotten, so it doesn't surprise me.
- [87:01]
Jay Dyer
But is that a bunch of people doing demonic art?
- [87:06]
Top Lobster
One of. I'll, I'll just say one of the uncles has passed away from suicide, and it's. That's how deep it was. So there's a lot going on. I don't, I can't speculate as to what was going on with him. But another uncle that I speak to a lot, he keeps arm's distance away from this, and he's just, you know, he's an artist and this is how he makes his money. He loves doing that. But it's. It's not a good place to be.
- [87:33]
David Lee Corbo
You know, it's the industry right now because you have, you know, your uncle and, and Arthur Kwan Lee, it's like real talents, but the industry doesn't want them.
- [87:45]
Jay Dyer
Right.
- [87:45]
David Lee Corbo
Which obviously shows you where their intentions are. It's like you're. You're only valuable if you're willing to tow the same line that they need you to tow.
- [87:55]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [87:55]
David Lee Corbo
And to go back to the hip hop thing, you can see the exact same thing mirrored there, where there has been a real degradation in the quality of hip hop. There's always been a question as to whether or not poetry over beats was a real accomplishment. You know, you're removing instruments and things of that nature. But I mean, people like Kanye west, who. It is, but it's not off.
- [88:17]
Top Lobster
It's not music. Like, I'm a musician. It's a different music theory. It's not theory, but it is an art form, so.
- [88:24]
David Lee Corbo
Right. But, you know, if you look at the state of the industry right now, it is the Satanism used to be the backdrop. Now it's the leading thing that, that they come forward with.
- [88:40]
Jay Dyer
Yeah.
- [88:40]
David Lee Corbo
And the artist is no longer talented or even attractive for that matter. If you look at the ice spices and sexy reds. Right. But that tells you pretty much all you need to know where hip hop has reached such a state that the only thing that is important, which it's taken the mask off, is the messaging. And in order for you to push such a blatant message, it is a prerequisite that you are not talented. Because if you're talented, you can, you can diverge and you can go, no, fuck this, I'm going to do my own thing. But if you are some completely talentless, you know, mumble rapper, well, then you depend on the people that are backing you in order for you to stay relevant. You depend on them 100%. And so in order for that sort of deal to be made, you have to push that agenda, whatever it is. And we've gotten to the point where it's so obvious that hip hop is no longer the art, is no longer a reflection of the culture, but the culture is a reflection of the art. And if, if the art is leading the way, look at what they're pushing now. I mean, it's like it's completely debaucherous, worst of the worst shit. And, and if you do believe that, that engineer, you know, hip hop is engineering much more than just the black community now. Look what they're trying to turn you into. They're trying to turn you into a face. Tattooed, debaucherous, fucking demonic, little. And that is. And now they're pulling the curtain off and they're like. And by the way, they were butt fucking.
- [90:11]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, by the way, you know? Yeah, like Lil Nas X is, is gay humping on the double, right?
- [90:19]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it's wild out here. Listen, Jay, we're coming up on an hour and a half and I want to respect your time. I, I do have a question for you. I don't know if David does. This is a stupid question. I was in a Greek Orthodox church for my, my best friend's wedding and I saw like a lot of the artwork. I'm, I'm paying attention to all the artwork. I'm paying attention to the curvature of, of like this. I don't even know, like this church that we're in. I guess it's a church temple. I'm paying attention to how they, they end all of their, their like Chance as they're talking with like a round sound, like an ohm almost. It's like. It's very hard to explain what was going on from somebody who's. It was my first time experiencing it, but one of the things that stuck out to me was this hand symbol here where it's like a ring finger, thumb, and it's like everyone's doing this or most, most of the, the people in the art are doing like they're showing you. Like, well, what the hell does that mean? Haven't been able to find out yet.
- [91:15]
Jay Dyer
Well, usually like if you see a blessing like this, this is the. Supposed to be the, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, this is the Trinity, and this is supposed to represent the two natures of Christ. And so likewise, when we do the cross, we do the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. We're doing something very similar. We're supposed to signify the Trinity and the two natures. So if you join an Orthodox Church, you'll usually be catechized. And that just means you're. It's like, you usually a period of like six months to depends on your priest, what he decides. It might be three years for some people, but you learn a lot of that kind of stuff. And the meaning of the symbols and every icon in the Orthodox Church is usually rife with symbolism. So there's. The colors have a significance, the, the placement in the icon has significance, but usually it's just teaching the basics of Orthodox theology is probably, probably 80% of the symbolism and iconography is just to convey our theological beliefs because we believe, unlike Roman Catholics, we think that there's a very, there's very strict rules about how you can do icons. You can't, for example, you can't paint Jesus as a black dude or an Asian dude. And the reason for that is because Jesus has to be a Hebrew, right? He can't be something that he wasn't historically. And we would say it's gnostic to divorce Christ from his Hebrew lineage. So he has to look the way that he does in pretty much all Orthodox icons in the Roman Catholic Church is very different. They don't see icons as having a specific liturgical significance. And by that I mean like the actual ordered worship service. They see it more like religious art. So for us, it's not religious art. It's very different. I'm not, I'm not calling into question almost it is, it's a form of catechesis and the theological instruction. So in Roman Catholic world, it's very different. You can have, you know, just weird stuff at the Vatican where, like, you know, God is like a big naked old man with a beard touching Adam. We, we don't think you're actually supposed to paint an image of God the Father at all. So sometimes people violate that. But strictly speaking, Orthodoxy, you're not supposed to have images of God the Father. That's because Jesus says in the Gospels no one sees the Father at any time. And so for us, you know, Jesus goes on to say, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. Paul says that he is the icon of the hypostasis of the father in Hebrews 1. So really the only legitimate image in our view of the Father Father is the person of the Son. So anyway, those are just some examples of how the Orthodox position on icons is, is way different than, than Roman Catholics.
- [94:05]
Top Lobster
I see. And one more thing. When they're reading the Scripture, they're reading the Scripture and then they'll say like, we're reading it from the Book of Matthew. This kind of thing, it's like a droning. But I'm, I'm sure that you are putting me under some type of a spell when you, when you speak in a certain cadence. So what is that about?
- [94:24]
Jay Dyer
This is just actually inherited from the Hebrew tradition of chanting. So a lot of what you see in the Orthodox worship service is a direct parallel from the Jewish temple service and synagogue service. So in our view, what the apostles did and, and when they went out and set up the churches, they didn't. In Scripture, we don't have an actual worship service service, but we know that the Jews and even Jesus himself, like when he would go to synagogue, when we go to worship, there was already an existing very ordered and structured way to do worship. For example, you have antiphonal singing. You notice this, for example, when Isaiah and Isaiah 6, when he sees into heaven, he sees the, the seraphim up there doing holy, holy, holy. They're doing a kind of chant Israel had through David's Psalms. Those are actually to be sung within the Temple worship. That was David's intent with a lot of those Psalms. So they're actually part of a structured worship service. And we think that when the apostles set up the churches, they, although it's not in Scripture, they gave us a tradition of taking elements of the Temple service, elements of the synagogue system that existed, and then giving a basic structure for what we in the Orthodox Church think is still the exact same worship that the first, second, third century church did. And if you read somebody like Justin Martyr, for example, in his, in his writings, most famous of which would be his debate with Trypho the Jew and his apology, his apologetic. He describes the worship service of the church in like 150 AD where he was. And very, it's very similar. All the same basics of the Orthodox worship service today is still there. So the chanting element is just an. A thing that came out of the Hebrew church tradition. Jews have people like, if you went to a synagogue service, a lot of times they have what's called a cantor. You know, the name cantor amongst Jews comes from the cantor, the guy who's chanting the, the songs. And so like David's psalms are meant to be chanted like that.
- [96:29]
Top Lobster
Ah, okay, perfect. Thank. Thank you for clearing.
- [96:32]
Jay Dyer
If you want to go deeper into that, which by the way, touches on your question about the Pope's hat and stuff, there's my buddy Lewis from Orthodox Jihada. He made a whole documentary that's really good. It's called, it's called Old Testament Worship in the Orthodox Church. And it's basically showing all of these parallels of the way the Orthodox Church is. Basically, we, we believe it's like the, the real Judaism, so to speak, not Babylonian Talmudic Judaism, but like the authentic Hebrew tradition that Jesus wanted his church to have. We think that's what the Orthodox Church is.
- [97:11]
Top Lobster
Interesting, man. You know, I, I'm gonna have to go back and re. Listen to this entire episode and put like. Because you've linked us to a bunch of stuff. I have your Twitter page linked in the bio. So when we release this, I will go back and like, try my best to put all this stuff in because I'm sure people want to pause.
- [97:29]
Jay Dyer
I'll send you a few links, like I can remember. Like, do you want like a link to all the stuff or just some of the main things that we talked about?
- [97:34]
Top Lobster
I can send you links, whatever you can remember. I'll just put it in there. Yeah.
- [97:41]
David Lee Corbo
You know, I do have one final question, and you don't have to go into super depth about it, but I, I was wondering if you could explain the significance of the Trinity, because I've, I, I literally have one tattooed on my body. Body that I tattooed when I was like 15 years old. And I have such a limited understanding of the, the Trinity that it just feels to be walking around like this. So what, what is the significance of it? I mean, I know it's the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, but that's about the extent of my, my knowledge. Why is this an Important symbol.
- [98:14]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. One thing you'll notice in the Orthodox Church is very different from even the Catholic Church and very different from the Protestant Church is like everything is triadic, everything is trinitarian. There's a lot of threes, there's a lot of triplicities. Everything is triadic and trinitarian. That's because for us, that's the most important doctrine. So for us, the number one absolute, most important doctrine is the Trinity. That's why we couldn't be Roman Catholics, because there's not just the issue of the Pope, there's also the issue of the filioque, which we think is a trinitarian deviation. So, you know, other groups that we could never agree with, like Muslims or Jehovah's Witnesses, they see the second person of the Godhead, Jesus, as a, as a person who was created. We think he's the eternal Son of God. And although his human nature is created as a divine person, he's not created. He was, he was always there. As John 1 says that he was always in the bosom of the Father. I was, in the beginning was the Word, where I was with God. The Word Word was God. So he's the eternal second person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit as well. An easy approach to why this is. We think the actual Old Testament teaching is the debate that I did with the Muslim Daniel Hakikachu. If you go to that debate, my opening presentation is just about a 10 minute presentation on how the Old Testament is, is a doctrine. The Old Testament teaches the Trinity, so for us, that's who God is. And we think that's the number one doctrine.
- [99:44]
David Lee Corbo
All right, that was actually pretty clarifying.
- [99:48]
Top Lobster
Sorry, my dog's freaking out over there.
- [99:50]
David Lee Corbo
Hope you guys didn't shoot him yet. I thought you were supposed to shoot.
- [99:53]
Top Lobster
I'm gonna shoot him right after this.
- [99:54]
David Lee Corbo
That's weird.
- [99:55]
Top Lobster
Give me a break. David Jay, thank you for. Thanks for coming on, man. It's been a kind of a long time coming. We had a little touch and go there, but I'm glad that, I'm glad that we, we got this done. This is a great conversation. It's exactly.
- [100:09]
Jay Dyer
By the way, I figured, I appreciate you guys having. I figured out what happened there. So when I, when I looked at, when I looked at the podcast name, I saw that XG was following it because he was like the first one that popped up as a follower. So I assumed that that was his podcast. And I had not really paid attention to your Twitter. Nothing against you, but like, I typically don't watch.
- [100:29]
David Lee Corbo
Probably for the best.
- [100:30]
Top Lobster
Like, I don't.
- [100:30]
Jay Dyer
I don't typically pay attention to who. Who's, like, tweet and what, because I'll get wrapped up in a lot of nonsense. So I assumed that you were xg, and I thought that this was his podcast, but I wasn't avoiding the podcast because I thought, oh, well, it's not his podcast. Screw those guys. No, it wasn't that at all. Then there was a misunderstanding because I didn't know you guys were jokesters. I thought you were, like, trying to start. I was like, why are you trying to start? You want to have a podcast? Let's do it. Like. But then I did. Then I realized you're jokesters. And then I realized, okay, I was being an idiot and retard, so I apologize to you. So that was my misunderstanding.
- [101:02]
David Lee Corbo
I liked it better, Jay, when you thought that he just looked like xg. That sucks. And then I like it. I like it even better when you realize that we weren't XG and you were like, those guys. That is way better.
- [101:19]
Jay Dyer
Well, on Twitter, you have, like, a cartoon outline, right?
- [101:22]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Yeah.
- [101:23]
Jay Dyer
Of your head. And I was like, it kind of does.
- [101:26]
David Lee Corbo
It kind of does.
- [101:27]
Top Lobster
As we. As we. We've dissected it and. And actually was on the show, or we were on a show with him, and I'm looking at him. Like, I could see how. Well, he sort of.
- [101:35]
Jay Dyer
You see these? These are my lesbian glasses. And if I don't have my lesbian reading glasses on, I just see like, a blur, dude. I can't really see what. That is so amazing.
- [101:46]
Top Lobster
Amazing. Anyway, listen, dude, I'm glad that we could make it happen, and thank you for spreading this knowledge on us. Like, very appreciative. Again, super fan.
- [101:56]
Jay Dyer
Anytime. Yeah, anytime.
- [101:58]
Top Lobster
Absolutely. All right, guys, we'll catch you tomorrow. I think we might be live again with Ed. Maybe we're going through the entire book of Revelation. This is going to be a task. It's going to be probably weeks and weeks of doing this. But tomorrow's episode one, installment one. So be there to check it out. Peace out, guys.
- [102:15]
David Lee Corbo
Peace out. The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is.
- [102:18]
Jay Dyer
A oblong box in the corner, corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real.
- [102:25]
David Lee Corbo
If you can persuade people that what.
- [102:27]
Jay Dyer
They see with their eyes is what there is to see, because they'll lack in the face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what's happened. And they have.