TIME CAPSULE: God & Liberty w/ Dave Smith and Clint Russell

Summary

Nephilim Death Squad: TIME CAPSULE: God & Liberty with Dave Smith and Clint Russell

Release Date: April 15, 2025

In this insightful episode of Nephilim Death Squad, hosts Top Lobsta Productions engage in a deep and expansive conversation with guests Dave Smith and Clint Russell. The episode dives into the intricate relationship between faith, liberty, and politics, exploring how these elements intertwine within the Libertarian movement and broader societal constructs.

---

1. Revisiting Past Debates: Dave Smith vs. Douglas Murray

The episode begins with Clint Russell introducing a throwback segment, revisiting a previous episode featuring Dave Smith. Clint reflects on a debate Dave had with Douglas Murray, a confrontation that has since gained notoriety.

Clint Russell comments:

“[...] debate is about tricking your opponent and getting an advantage over them, and it kind of evolves into character assassination. It’s ultimately a popularity contest by the end of it.”
(00:56)

Top Lobsta agrees, lamenting the nature of modern debates:

“The nature of debate is just about tricking your opponent and practically character assassination.”
(06:08)

The hosts critique Murray’s debate tactics, highlighting how debates often stray from genuine discourse to personal attacks and strategic maneuvers meant to undermine rather than inform.

---

2. The Libertarian Party’s Internal Struggles and Image

Transitioning from debates, the conversation shifts to the state of the Libertarian Party (LP). Dave Smith shares his disenchantment with the LP's direction, particularly criticizing its appeal to certain demographics he perceives as misaligned with foundational libertarian principles.

Clint Russell expresses frustration:

“It's filled with faggots and retards and losers. And this is why I am not a libertarian anymore.”
(58:43)

Dave Smith counters by distinguishing between the philosophical tenets of libertarianism and the behaviors of its members:

“A lot of these people – they kind of demonize and are willing to demonize an entire group of people.”
(65:40)

The discussion underscores a tension between libertarian ideals and the actions or attitudes of its supporters, questioning whether the philosophy itself is flawed or if it's a misrepresentation by its adherents.

---

3. God and Liberty: Philosophical and Theological Dimensions

A significant portion of the episode delves into the philosophical intersection between belief in God and the concept of liberty. Clint Russell and Dave Smith debate whether pure libertarianism can coexist with or necessitate a belief system grounded in a higher power.

Clint Russell posits:

“There's a small linchpin where I think if you put, like, God right in the center of libertarianism, it would make a lot of sense, but they have removed it completely.”
(24:18)

Dave Smith reflects on his personal journey from atheism to belief:

“As someone who used to be an atheist who now believes in God, it's an interesting perspective for people like that.”
(51:12)

The conversation explores how moral frameworks derived from religious beliefs could potentially guide libertarian principles, suggesting that the absence of such a framework may lead to societal degeneracy.

---

4. Cultural Influences and Spiritual Warfare

The hosts and guests delve into the notion of spiritual warfare, asserting that modern American culture is deeply influenced by occult and Luciferian symbols, which they believe undermine societal morals and values.

Clint Russell states:

“We're engaged in spiritual warfare. We look at these things. I say, what do you think about Gilgamesh and the resurrection chamber and Hillary Clinton…”
(95:58)

Dave Smith concurs, linking cultural decay to the suppression of spiritual awareness:

“The libertarian outcome is that the absence of a welfare state and overreaching government is going to put out the flame of degeneracy.”
(71:03)

They argue that recognizing and combating these spiritual and occult influences is essential to reversing the perceived moral decline.

---

5. Personal Reflections and the Pursuit of Truth

Dave Smith shares his experiences with political debates and his commitment to truth, expressing frustration over ineffective discourse but maintaining a steadfast dedication to informing his audience.

Dave Smith explains:

“The problem with debate was it wasn’t even a debate. It was just ad hominem attacks.”
(55:37)

Top Lobsta adds a personal touch, discussing the challenges of maintaining genuine conversations in a politically charged environment:

“I am in this for the love of truth. I don’t really care about individuals… I think his brain works well, and I would love to see what he thinks about this.”
(31:27)

The dialogue emphasizes the importance of seeking truth and fostering meaningful discussions amid widespread misinformation and divisive rhetoric.

---

6. The Role of Morality and Objective Truth in Society

A recurring theme in the episode is the struggle to define and uphold objective truth and morality in a society increasingly embracing relative truths.

Clint Russell challenges the notion of subjective truth:

“Western culture has stripped us of our relationship with the truth. There are multiple truths and this is a culturally significant phenomenon.”
(93:58)

Dave Smith responds by advocating for a belief in a singular truth rooted in spirituality:

“Believing in God also requires this belief in like the evil and the darkness.”
(89:10)

Their discussion navigates the complexities of maintaining moral and ethical standards in a libertarian framework while addressing the spiritual dimensions they believe are crucial for societal well-being.

---

7. Concluding Thoughts: Striving for a Balanced Future

As the episode winds down, Clint Russell and Dave Smith reflect on the challenges and responsibilities of influencing their audience towards a more truth-oriented and morally grounded society.

Clint Russell conveys optimism mixed with concern:

“Hope that you guys do pull it, pull this country together… What else are we?”
(141:24)

Dave Smith reaffirms his dedication to truth-telling and combating societal evils:

“We're trying to move the needle… fighting back against that propaganda.”
(78:42)

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage critically with cultural forces and to seek alignment between their beliefs and actions in pursuit of a just and moral society.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Clint Russell:
  “Debate is about tricking your opponent and getting an advantage over them, and it kind of evolves into character assassination.”
  (00:56)

• Dave Smith:
  “Believing in God also requires this belief in like the evil and the darkness.”
  (89:10)

• Top Lobsta:
  “I am in this for the love of truth. I don’t really care about individuals… I think his brain works well, and I would love to see what he thinks about this.”
  (31:27)

---

This episode of Nephilim Death Squad offers a profound exploration of the nexus between faith, liberty, and political ideology, urging listeners to contemplate the deeper spiritual underpinnings they believe are essential for societal integrity and moral compass.

Transcript

[Dave Smith]

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[Clint Russell]

Cap apply Welcome back welcome back to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. We are going to. This is a, this is a throwback episode, so we're just flying right into it. We're going to be reviewing the episode about Dave Smith that we did like a year ago. The one that Phil labonte said was like C list, like early podcasting day stuff. I thought it was an okay episode. I thought it was better than he could do. But it comes on the heels, I mean as we re air it, it's coming on the heels of Dave's very famous debates, which he's now he's kind of known for doing with. What is his name? Douglas Kike Murray. I forgot his name.

[Top Lobster]

I think that was, I didn't know it was a Douglas K. Murray, but yeah, I mean that was him.

[Clint Russell]

That was the guy. Yeah. So he had this debate. What do you, what do you think about it from the, from the layman's perspective? What did you think about what you saw there?

[Top Lobster]

Well, I didn't watch it and that's mostly because, you know, it's debate. Look, I actually hung up my appetite, whatever appetite there ever was for debate many, many years ago because of Joe Rogan's podcast, because he had somebody on who was talking about it was two people. One was representing the plant based diet, the other one was representing the carnivore diet. And what I discovered was despite having subjected myself to that four hour debate, and despite having subjected myself to previous hours worth of content on diet and nutrition via the Joe Rogan podcast, I still couldn't definitively say that one was the winner and one wasn't. You know what I mean? Like, it was like there was no definitive answer. Still after all that time invested. And I realized then that the nature of debate, just the language that, that people use, it makes it so that it's, it's not really ever about the information. It's about almost like tricking your opponent and, and getting a, an advantage over them and, and kind of like smearing them, straw manning them. It's like all kinds of smearing them. Yeah, there's all kinds of debate tactics that make it so that if you can see them, you realize that this is not going to change your mind. And this is just about it. Almost evolves into, like, character assassination. It's, it's ultimately a popularity contest by the end of it.

[Clint Russell]

And that's a good point to bring in this debate. I'll show you this video of this debate because it's what happened in the Joe Rogan debate. So here we go. You'll. You'll see what's going on here. So Douglas Murray is actually debating Douglas Murray on the veracity of using, you know, experts and people who weren't there for their opinion. So here we go.

[E]

Have you been to the Crossing Points? I really resent that form of argumentation. When were you last there at all? Sure, I really resent it. You should at least do the courtesy of visiting it. This is not an attractive invitation. I think it's a good idea to see stuff, particularly if you spend a career talking about something. I have the right to talk about whatever the hell I want, and no one's going to stop me or try to intimidate me. And I think that if I said to somebody else the other way around, it would be equally reprehensible. I have a journalistic rule of trying never to talk about a country, even in parsley, unless I've at least been there. If I said shut up, you have no right to criticize anything that Douglas Murray says because, hang on, you're talking about Crossing Points. And not only have you never been to a crossing point in either Egypt or in Israel, but you've never even been to the region. Okay, it's not an exact comparison, but seriously, is that a, Is that a reasonable form of argument? No. In that case, nobody can talk about anything. We might as well pack up, go home and isolate ourselves. If you're insisting that you're an expert of some kind, or not claiming you're an expert but still talking about it. If you've never seen any of this going on, I mean, there are some people who've written about the. I mean, there are people who've written about the Holocaust who didn't experienced the Holocaust and have written about it better than people who did. But that is a different matter from spending an awfully long amount of time talking about an issue in a region you haven't even had the courtesy to visit whilst developing all of these views about it. This, this, this idea that the lived experience has to triumph over everything else is, is not always correct. Should at least know what it is, what the territory is, what the situation is in the region. There's an irony to this, but let's skate over the irony.

[Clint Russell]

It's hilarious. So this clip. This clip was actually juxtaposed by Tyler Yankee.

[Top Lobster]

Tyler's doing.

[Clint Russell]

No. Well, some. He. He had taken the both clips of that entire interview that he's talking to Lex Friedman. Thank God we didn't have to fucking listen to Lex Friedman.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

And we. He's talking to Dave Smith in the Joe Rogan experience with the red background. Obviously, his idea to Dave was that you're not allowed to speak on these things because you haven't even visited the region. So, number one, you have to be an expert to talk about these things. If you're not an expert, you're just a guy saying stuff. Or. He called Dave a comedian multiple times and just, like, insulted him this way. And then Dave didn't have the wherewithal, I suppose, to push back and be like, fuck you, you're a British faggot. Literally. And he just kind of let him do that, Which I'm like, that's like. That was just beyond the pale. Like, you let this guy call you whatever, and he kind of just got away with it. You should have whatever. So he goes on to say, like, you have to be an expert to talk about stuff, otherwise your opinion's invalid. But on this other podcast here, he's saying, you know, he's like, I resent that completely. That you have to have lived experience to talk about it. Because the idea back then was you're talking about black issues, but you're a British guy, so you shouldn't be able to. And he's like, I.

[Top Lobster]

That was the context of that. That clip. Oh, interesting.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, It's. It's just so, again, like, debate is, like, not. It's nothing ever truthful. It's just to win an argument. It's never to even make a solid point.

[Top Lobster]

And this dude, everybody's so slippery in a debate, you know, it's like trying to grab that, like, really wet soap, you know, or something. It just. It feels like that's the objective is to squirm out of your opponent's grasp over and over again. It's a matter of, like, trying to pin down your opponent and accuse them of something or say that they misrepresented something or they misunderstood something and their entire thing is just to squeam, you know, to squirm out of that. It feels very much like it's verbal wrestling. Like actual, like, Greco Roman verbal wrestling.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah. But both guys are lubed up. And in this exchange, Dave, your wrestling partner is a gay man.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

So. Which makes this extraordinarily I mean, exponentially more gay than it should have. Should have. Have to. Been, shouldn't.

[Top Lobster]

It doesn't. I'm not. I don't know this guy, Douglas Murray, but I'm imagining that this is his modality, right? When he becomes, like, when he gets into a public speaking sort of a situation, he's combative or he's using debate tactics, but, like, he just strikes me as somebody that this is his thing.

[Clint Russell]

And.

[Top Lobster]

And look, you're not going to get on Rogan and have a debate if you're. If it's not your thing, if you're not, you know, into doing or familiar with debating. And so it strikes me as significant that if he has carved out a career or any notoriety by way of debate, but then you look at his own opinions and they're completely in opposition to one another to the extent where you can make him debate himself if you clip it the right way, that should tell you everything you need to know about debate is it can make a man who is deceitful successful.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, he's extremely deceitful. So the way this. This argument went is he came in to the debate and immediately called out, like, Jake Shields and Ian Carroll. I think. I think Ian Carroll might be gay. He called him out. He called out, possibly he called out Dave Smith for being just a comedian, but talking about things that might bring up harmful issues. So it's like he basically, his argument to Joe Rogan, he wasn't even talking to Dave. He was talking directly to Joe. And he was like, how come you give these people a platform and they do these things? Like, you should really think about this before you do this. It was a struggle session for, like, 30, 40 minutes.

[Top Lobster]

So gay.

[Clint Russell]

Super gay. Then it got to the point where, you know, Dave's whole point was like, hey, you know, they're murdering kids, babies in Gaza just to try to flush out terrorism. Which you. This guy actually admits that, like, you're never going to get rid of this terrorist agency. It's a. It's an idea. It's not a government. You're just making. Honestly, you're making more of them by doing this, but what you're doing is bombing them. And he's like, oh, well, there's a cost. So then Dave's like, okay, so is the cost 15,000 children, you know, with their limbs and heads blown off? Is that the cost? Because if it's the cost, then just say yes, and then we can agree to disagree and move on. And the guy's just very slippery. I Reject the premise. This kind of thing. I reject the premise of that. And it's like, see, how does that feel, Dave? How does it feel to have your rejection?

[Top Lobster]

Well, that was the thing that I noticed about Dave Smith, who I am a fan of. But I. I recognize that no one has ever communicated with me in that way. And I mean that very seriously. I've communicated with. It's not like my show was big, but I used to interview people all the time. I've interviewed over hundreds of people. Not a huge accomplishment by any stretch, but it's like, I've got a pretty good sample size of how people tend to interact with me. There are those who have. I'm not saying this is Dave, but there are those who have something to hide and. And me. And those people don't really mesh that well, but there are those who are, like, really genuine and don't have any kind of baggage going into an interaction with me. Those people mesh really well with me. This is the first time I had anybody say anything to me. Like, I reject the premise to which I wanted to respond. I don't understand the statement.

[F]

I.

[Top Lobster]

And I mean that seriously.

[F]

Like, I'm stupid.

[Top Lobster]

I've never had anybody say to me in. In conversation that they reject my premise. Like, that's. I feel like I just got hit with, like, a robot. Like, it was a really. It was actually a frustrating episode because it felt a lot like I was dealing with somebody who couldn't answer the question, what if you didn't have breakfast this morning?

[F]

Right?

[Top Lobster]

And it was like. Instead of saying, like, but I did have breakfast, it's them saying, I reject the premise of that question.

[Clint Russell]

It's like, because here. Here's what happened, I guess. So you guys will be listening to the episode in a couple of minutes at this will be paired with the episode of Dave Smith and Clint Russell and us right after. But I think something similar happened here. And again, I don't want to, like, you know, talk shit about Dave and all this stuff. I mean, whatever. We'll do it anyway. We. This is something that I do on Tower Gang where I'm making fun, but I think what happened here with. So with Douglas Murray, Dave had a debate with him that attacked this weird underbelly of his ideology. And that's Israel in. At the very bottom of it, people like, oh, this debate was about experts. This debate was about lived experiences. Debate was about, you know, fucking, I don't know, war in the middle. No, it was about Jews. It was. Unfortunately, it was about Jews this guy is married to a Jew. He. He's been to Israel. He's been given awards. He's specifically been given awards for his courageous, outspoken rhetoric after October 7th. The October 7th attacks, which he was also allowed to score a mod of with Dave. Dave was like, hey, listen, there's a. There's some evidence here that of Netanyahu and the guy, Ehud Barak, the guy that preceded him, saying that they actually supported the funding of Hamas in Gaza. They supported that. For whatever reason, I don't know, they supported it. So now when I look at the October 7th attacks, and I'm like, oh, wow, what a tragedy. So a bunch of guys with towels on their heads and fucking. I think like, the original thing was they came in with, like, paragliders, fans, the hand gliders with fans on their backs and like, you know, Uzis. And they shot this place up. And I was like, oh, but they did that. They flew into a rave and then they breached your border, your iron dome. And they were there for seven hours before there was a response. I don't know how fucking big Israel is, but. But I assume that you probably have, like, within 30 minutes, the IDF is pretty much anywhere. So seven hours, no response from an organization that you guys are on record recorded saying that you support the funding of. As a conspiracy theorist, it sounds awful lot like you wanted that to happen so that you could do this response. But Douglas Murray rejected the premise immediately. He's like, I reject the premise. It's asinine that you would say that Israel supported the funding of Hamas. The terrorist agency is like, but they did. With his own words. And then he even goes further to say the gaslighting this episode was tremendous. But he even goes further to say, like, oh, so you'll just cherry pick. So when the IDF says something or when Mossad says something, then you just believe it then. And Dave's like, yeah, I kind of believe when they tell me, you know, the things that they're doing wrong and they kind of just let that slip. I believe that. And then I also parse through their lies. But anyway, getting off track here, what happened was, is that Dave and Doug had this debate where it's almost indefensible, especially at this point where, because it's been laid bare, that Israel is just kind of demonic kind of garbage. And with our. It wasn't even a debate with Dave, I wanted to have a discussion, but it kind of turned a little contentious because you got. You started getting frustrated with them. It was about God and liberty. And can these two things coexist? And I know Dave, you know, his son had surgery from, as a child and he saw that as like a miracle. Like he's seeing his daughter born was like, he was like, this is a miracle. He's like. I started, I started to believe that there was a God period.

[Top Lobster]

That was my, my question to, to Dave was in regards to the tenacity that he absorbs. You know, political literature and, and, and you know, works constantly to have this understanding of geopolitics and things like that. If you have this big moment where you realize that God is real because you, you've had a child, how does that realization not take precedence, at least in regards to your, your, your fascination? You know what I mean? Like, it's like.

[F]

And that's really.

[Top Lobster]

I was just trying to. And then of course, he's rejecting that premise, I believe was his actual response.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, but I don't even understand the premise that was being rejected there. I need to, I should re. Listen to the episode.

[Top Lobster]

But it's hard because I, I think I kind of laid back for the first half and then once we started wading into more like religious spiritual waters and conspiratorial waters is when I started to, to pipe up a little bit. But I was like, I said it's.

[Clint Russell]

A weird interview for Dave because like, so he knows me from the, like a libertarian background. And I brought him on and I told him that I wanted, what I wanted to talk about. He, he was, it was off the heels of the debate that he had with that guy Andrew from.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, I wanted to talk about that. The, the, the, the COVID lockdown era debate with Andrew Cuomo.

[Clint Russell]

No, no, the other, the other Anthony.

[Top Lobster]

Cuomo talking about the, the one of them is a CNN reporter and the other one was the governor of New York.

[Clint Russell]

No, the guy that, the guy that pushed him on. He, he's, he's on like the, whatever show. We were supposed to interview his wife.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, he had a debate with Andrew Wilson, I think maybe his last name.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

And Andrew was not fair in that debate, but it was very much like a debate or an argument on like religious ends. Sort of like like how this coincides with liberty. They were talking past each other and then Andrew used a bunch of debate tactics that I was like, this is just like not going anywhere. And it was just very weird.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

So I was like, I told Dave, I was like, I want to discuss this stuff with you. And he said, yeah, to come on to discuss that. But I still think that maybe he forgot, but he's like, oh, yeah, top is we're going to talk about Rothbard. Like, I'm not fucking talking about Mises or Rothbard. Like, we've already. I've done that before. I've been on like, Josh Smith's show with this guy and we've, you know, I don't want to do that. I. I'm. We're past that. So he brought that up a couple of times and I was like, that doesn't matter here. I don't care what some dead. You said. I'm talking about a different dead Jew. And what.

[Top Lobster]

You know what the. The thing is, is like, I recognize that some of these people are used to being put in a position where, like, motherfuckers are going to try to gotcha. You know what I mean? And like, I don't operate that way. I don't have a history of walking anybody into a tr. Anything like that literally hasn't happened. Never done it once. And so it's weird because all I do is set out to have a genuine interaction with somebody. And when I'm. When I'm meeting, like, debate tactics, I'm like, this is autopilot. This is a routine that you've worked at and developed. This isn't genuine. This is how you navigate people who are trying to, like, you know, catch you in some salacious moment. Not my mo. Have. Trying to have a conversation about God with you.

[Clint Russell]

I really want to know, like, the. I want to know how you think. Like, he. He just wasn't understanding. I was like, how do you. How does God mix with this idea of liberty? Because when you look at the libertarian movement and what it is and what it's become, especially you go, how did this thing fail so badly? And it's like. Because it. I call it. Some people call it Satanism. What does it say? Not. Not walk us into a trap. What was the pick? About an hour ago? Yeah. No, we asked you if you wanted to see that.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

You guys said 1, 2, 3, which means yes, that' true.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

You've consented. Technically, I believe you.

[Top Lobster]

You typed in 1, 2, 3. I remember that.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, you did pull up the receipts, baby boy. So with. With Dave and the idea of like, liberty and. Or the libertarianism and what, like the fruit that it's. It's bore. We were asking, like, how these two things coincide because as I was saying, some people call libertarianism, like, close to Satanism or even. Yeah. Close to Crowley. Isn't Crowley like, Crowley's ideology do as I will. And it does. It does. But it also is very close to the Christian ethos, is. There's a thing here. There's this small linchpin where I think if you put, like, God right in the center of libertarianism, it would make a lot of sense, but they have removed it completely and thrown it away because they're like, oh, no authority, no rulers, no leaders. It's like, okay, but there is.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

And you're gonna have to choose one. So you've chosen none, which means you've chosen everything else but God. That's the reality of it. And then you see what it gets you. You get a gay dude and a cop as your presidential candidate. You get a bunch of people with jean jackets and pins on. They smell, they can't brush their teeth. They're all autistic, and they're. It's. They're. They're largely confused. So the question that I was asking Dave in. In that interview or like, that we were trying to get. What I was trying to get at. I don't know exactly what you were trying to ask him, but I was like, why. If this, like, this integral part is right here and you believe in it, why are you. Why do you shy away from it so much? I know it's not going to be popular, but the reality is there's a bunch of young men and women in this movement here that are completely lost. You've seen it. He's traveled the country and seen all of everything that they have to offer. You go to the national convention and you're like, geez, man, this is pathetic. And people need God. People need. They need God in there. But, like, if you went in there and you started to, like, preach God.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, yeah, it would never work.

[Clint Russell]

No, they would. It would be like an exorcism. But the thing that I do like. What I like about Dave, though, is that he does a thing where, like, when I look at him and I see him talk and I see how he behaves. He is. He's exemplifying God, in my opinion, in his actions, how he behaves with his marriage, with his children, with the way he carries himself, I'm like, yeah, that's like, these are all of the qualities that somebody who believes in God. Right. Would. Would present with. But. And again, I'm not being like, go out there and preach the gospel, Dave. But I'm. I was just trying to have a conversation about, like, I think this is important to put here, and I think that he is doing it the same way I told. I told Clint a long time ago. He was like, I don't believe in God. And I was like, but you act as if you do. He's like, I don't know what that means. And I was like, well, look at. When you walk around, you act as if you do believe in God, that there is a higher power. You're put together, you're creating examples for, like, the greater good. Now there is. There's like a difference between acting like you believe in God and then actively believing in God. Because I feel like you take the next level, the next step there. And then the next step also is, like, just telling people, like, you know, I believe in God. I think that that's really important in this. In this puzzle that we're trying to put together. And I feel like that that's what I was trying to express to Dave. We had some, like, communication issues with, like, my microphone at the time, for whatever reason. You'll see.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, yeah, it was ducking you out, which. Which meant that they couldn't hear you when you were trying to, like, interject or even start a point. The whole thing was frustrating in that way. And I don't know. I mean, I definitely hear what you're saying. And it just. My question was a really simple one, which was. And I understand why he can't do it if he. If he can't do it. But my question was more along the lines of, like, if you've seen this thing.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Top Lobster]

If you've seen it, why aren't you moving towards it? And. And I know if you, especially Dave Smith, you think about it, he comes from a comedy and a politics place.

[Dave Smith]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

That's his place.

[Clint Russell]

And also he was an atheistic Brooklyn kid that had a Jewish mother. Not raised Jewish, but atheistic in the. In the left wing New York City comedy crowd.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

So I get it. But hey, man, that's what I'm saying.

[Top Lobster]

Is, like, I think that is. And I think that's why I ran. Look, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze Dave Smith, but part of me feels like that's why I ran into that weird labyrinth of. Of debate speak, which wasn't very extensive. It's not like he did this to me over and over again. It happened probably like a good three times, whatever. But it was like a. It was like a stopper in the momentum of the conversation. And I felt as though it was a defense mechanism instead of like an actual intrigue and exploration of a topic. It was like, for Some reason a shield was going up at the mention of it. I think that that shield probably exists because of comedy, New York City, atheism, left leaning politics, all that a little bit.

[Clint Russell]

I feel like though, because he's, he's, I know he's discussed it with Louis and Lewis is like, you know, Louis is, I don't know what he believes, but he's just not, he doesn't even want to entertain that. He doesn't like to entertain the politics, doesn't like to entertain the religious. He's very happy in his little bubble and that's fine, you know, but when you step into the political realm and you're trying to do this like changing of humanity kind of thing, you're gonna have to deal with these issues. So like Lewis, if like when I talk to him I'm like, why would I ever bring that up with him? We're not talking about, we're talking about dick jokes, you know what I mean? We'll keep it contextual there. But with Dave, when you're talking about this bigger picture, then you have to mention this. And I feel like the, what we were talking about this idea of not necessarily religion but like spirituality, it goes hand in hand with liberty, but it, it sweeps the leg of the libertarian movement. So to address it, like, to address your question head on would mean that he would have to, then in some ways he would have to like, not renounce but like step back from some of these ideas, these libertarian ideas which are part of his personality. And, and he holds a lot of conviction with which I, again I, I think a lot of his lib. The libertarian ideas are, are possible within the, the realm of believing in God. Well, maybe not like, you know, like, like having like, you know, it's okay if we're gay, you know, and like that it's like it's not. There has to be some sort of moral boundaries.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, it should be like, you know, there it's kind of leading with the spirit of like rebellion and liberation, which is understandable. Rebel and liberate yourself from mankind, I suppose. But there has to be an authority and that authority is God. And if you don't reel it in at the appropriate time, that it just becomes, you know what. Liberate me from all things. God's order and man's order. But even the man's order thing is like I'm realizing that God does place into position not only powers and principalities, but also kings. And so, you know, I'm not saying that that's what is Happening now, I don't know if that's what the president is, but I know that there's a history of that happening. And so maybe we should make it. Rebel and liberate yourself against everyone who's not, you know, walking in the, in the word of God. You know what I mean? Like, like that should probably be a good marker is if somebody claims to be anointed in one way or another. Well, then you observe them and if they are leading with God, then maybe you're not forced to rebel against everybody. Because I have that in me. I used to, you know, school was really hard for me because I couldn't have like authority figures telling me what to do. And so I've always had that like, spirit of rebellion. But I recognize that that's, you know, the rebellion, the angels rebelling against God or even the whole don't tread on me thing. And it's a snake. And then it's like Jesus Christ gave us the authority to tread on, so serpents and scorpions, but for some reason don't tread on me as part of this conversation. And then even the, the torch, the symbol of libertarian values is like, well, that's huge, right? The Promethean flame, the, the, the Mithras or Lucifer the light bearer or any of these things, like all those together, they start to make something really weird. And then like you said before, it's like libertarians lead with, you know, do whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anybody and you're not hurting children.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah. The non aggression principle is similar to do without wealth shall be the whole of the law. And even in like Crowley and Crowley ism, they're talking about like, you know, but don't hurt people. Like, don't, yeah, that they don't steal their, like be, be ethical, but do without will. And it's like, yeah, no, no, halfway I agree with you. Like, don't hurt people. Don't take their. But there's a lot of other stuff with what thou wilt, you know, like you're performing anal sex. Yeah, anal sex. Portal rituals. Portal magic in the Lower east side of Manhattan, like just below a copper statue of fucking Lucifer. The rebellion, holding a torch. I just don't think that this is good for the greater good of people. But that's another conversation really, because it's.

[Top Lobster]

Packaged as a lot of good things. It's only when you expand those values into the macro because they work really well in the micro. Right. As far as small government and not allowing the federal government to do this and you know, like everything in the micro works but as soon as you enter the macro and you start talking about God, that's. Yeah, there you go. JC says some libertarians believe in consenting children. Right? So there has to be a line.

[Clint Russell]

Like, like when, when I was in libertarianism, that was, the line was like, oh well there's like some, you know, some libertarians are like clear headed and they really know what they're talking about and other ones are talking about child consent laws and it's like, yes, certainly there's levels, but that's, you're going to get that when you're given free will. And I'd like again, so liberty libertarianism, I think where it's, where it's great is the ability of tell. Well, the ability to give people their agency and free will. You know, I do like to do without will, but then it needs to come with a lot of caveats.

[Top Lobster]

It's like, but if you feel what point.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, I'm saying like, no, no, do what you want to do, but these are the repercussions of your actions. Like this is what you're gonna get. And as a matter of fact, if you're gonna go do that gay stuff, you're not welcome in my society. This is like Hans Hermann Hoppe sort of an idea where libertarianism does work. But it's like, dude, there's going to be strict boundaries and rule sets. Like even God, even God allowed us to do what, what we will. Yeah, he allowed us. Like, and that's the point of this whole thing, right? Like you have to choose him. He can't force you. But it's like if you're presenting this to people and you're telling like largely autistic people, a group of autistic young men and some woman that, you know, do whatever you want, just don't hurt people. Like, well, where are they? They're retarded, man. Like we've seen these people. Like they're going to take that to the maximum and it's not going to create anything good. There's got to be moral boundaries and it's not popular with a lot of the people with the, the lady with pink hair and the Statue of Liberty on her head that's screaming about whatever. It's not going to be popular with her. It's not going to be popular with the gay snaggletooth dude that won the election. It's not going to be popular with the cop or the guy that's walking through the forest yelling at himself before.

[Top Lobster]

If you don't go in that direction, then that right there, those things you just described are the fruits of your party.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah. And that's what. That's kind of what I was getting at with him. But it's. I think if you, if, if you were to address it. Exactly. It's not a. It's. There's no way to win that argument. But you're getting into, like this moral philosophy as well.

[Top Lobster]

It was. It's very philosophical. Yeah. And then. And it's not like there would have been an answer. That's a conversation I would have actually liked to have had with him. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the conversation, you know, honored that he would spend any time talking to us. And he is somebody who.

[Clint Russell]

I really enjoy the fruits of the party. Right.

[Top Lobster]

Literally. Literally, yeah.

[Clint Russell]

It was a great conversation. Even though, like, because again, so my microphone was ducking, so whenever they were talking, I was underneath them and I'm talking, but no one could hear me. And it's like, yeah, very frustrating. There was a technical issue, but I, I just, I wish that I would have been able to guide the conversation more because, like, we got stuck a bunch of times. You and Dave got stuck because. And that was a beautiful part too, Dave, like, you were like, I don't really give a. About Dave Smith because I'm not. Like, I didn't come up in this space. I understand the respect that he has, but, like, whatever. And that's. You need that when you're talking with somebody of Dave's size, you. You definitely need that. I don't give a kind of thing. And I know what it was.

[Top Lobster]

It was. It was less of the I don't give a. And more of. I'm genuinely interested in what you think on the topic, but we can't get past this. And so my job then is to refine my question and figure out how to slip it in a different way if you're not going to answer it because of this aspect that I've got to refine. It's got to go back to the drawing board and I've got to spit it back out to you in a way that hopefully resonates with you. And so if I came off as not giving a fuck, it was more like, I am in this for the love of truth. I don't really care about individuals and, And I, you know, obviously I respect people and I'm grateful for their time and things like that, but if I give a. At all about Dave Smith, it's because I think his brain works well, and I would love to see what he thinks about this if I present it to him. And for whatever reason, probably for what, the first time in my life, certainly not the last, I was unable to package this in a way that was palatable for the person so that we were going to receive it, you know, chew on it, and then give me back something cool. It just wasn't happening. He was going, nope, I reject that dish. That is a disgusting dish. I'll not have anything. Like, I prepared this pretty strenu continuously. But back to the kitchen, I'll refine it, we'll spit it out again. And it just wasn't happening.

[Clint Russell]

It was a conversation that I would have. I think we would have gotten a lot more out of, and I. I would much rather have in private, not recorded, literally. What do you think? You have a very huge following. You're super influential. He was influential in a lot of my thought coming up as well. Even though, like, I guess his.

[F]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

As I would just got into it, he was kind of like coming up in the space as well. So, like, very influential, what I think. But I was like, I want to know what you think. Like, I don't necessarily. I don't even listen to the show anymore. I really do. I'm curious. And if it, like, if that can't be recorded because it's like, you know, private position, public position, fine. But what the hell do you, like, where are you at? So I know your heart and I know when you're, like, when you're saying something, I know how to translate it. You know what I mean? I know where it's coming from because.

[Top Lobster]

It'S like, you know what I want to hear. And if I would have loved to have gotten here. Dave Smith, you've been looking at politics so closely for so long. Where does your mind go when you find out about child sex trafficking rings that are steeped in occult, esoteric symbolism and. And ceremony? What does your mind think when you hear about the laptop leaks and the weird shit that they supposedly found in Iraq and all of this strange artwork in the Podesta's homes? Like, where does your mind go? But like, it's just, in my opinion, if you go there and you start having that conversation, especially with people that you don't know and trust that intimately, you run the risk of up this other that you've established for yourself, because you have to maintain an air of seriousness. If you're going to talk about politics, an air of seriousness if you're going.

[Clint Russell]

To talk about politics, it's kind of funny, right? Because like, politics fight. So the money's fake, politics are gay, and it's all theater.

[Top Lobster]

Everybody's playing pretend. But you have to be very serious when you play pretend.

[Clint Russell]

And what's considered unserious is talking about God and like the metaphysical realm which certainly exists. And I like where every people are becoming, well, a lot more aware of it. But, you know, that's just something that I feel like is going to come as time goes by. But I'm glad that we got to have the conversation with Dave about that in a lot of ways.

[Top Lobster]

Back one day.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, maybe, maybe not. I mean, probably. What's his name after that he was.

[Top Lobster]

Like, no, I'm not going to be coming back.

[Clint Russell]

Oh yeah, I told you. Imagine having that conversation with Phil Labonte. It would go nowhere, just a empty, empty space. But the conversation we had with Dave was a lot like the one that he had with Douglas Murray. But I feel like our. Was like we're dealing with an even more important question than just like just this genocide and the idea of whatever Israel is, and you know, the Jews, which is what they were talking about. We're dealing with the concept of God and the concept of free will.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

And it was like, it was like very much like just butting heads. We were talking around and over each other. And I, I was a little frustrated by the conversation, by the technology not working, just by how the conversation went. I think Dave was frustrated by how his conversation went with Douglas Murray. Because the guy, Douglas Murray, no matter what you think about him, he's a smart dude. And it wasn't even a debate. It wasn't even a conversation. It was just. The guy was just dancing. The guy was doing like ad hominem attacks on him. He was just doing like weird equations referring to the experts. It's like it was not.

[Top Lobster]

You know how I want to remember Dave Smith? Not from this episode, because he didn't know what he was getting into. And it's all very jarring. He doesn't owe us anything. He doesn't know me at all.

[Clint Russell]

That's the thing. If I would have told him, I should have told him, like, like, come here forward debate, you know, so that way. Because I. But I don't want to debate you. And Dave's not going to use those sort of tactics most of the time. But I, if, I think if we would have prepared him, like, hey, this might be a little bit like, this is a hard conversation. I'M not going to have you on, like, who's Dave Smith? Tell us about. No, no, that's. Everybody knows you. Like, we're talking. I want to talk about something unique, and I just. I don't think that he was prepared to address it. So it is what it is.

[Top Lobster]

This was after. And this is what I was getting at, the version of Dave Smith that I want to remember. I'm pretty sure this podcast that we did with him was after he destroyed Cuomo over the lockdown era. And it was incredible. I mean, a lot of it was shit that should have been said to Cuomo a long time ago, should have been out on the world. But Dave Smith was the guy who, as soon as the smoke settled, you know, I guess this was almost a year ago as well, or a little bit over a year ago, and we finally got some reckoning. We finally got somebody to hold accountable, and obviously, you know, there needs to be more done. But having. I think it was Anthony Cuomo on stage.

[Clint Russell]

Cuomo.

[Top Lobster]

Chris Cuomo. There we go. Chris Cuomo on stage with Dave Smith debating the lockdown era. And Dave Smith being like, you and your core cohorts said X, Y, and Z. You said that two weeks to flatten the curve. You said that it was 100 effective. You said all these things. And he goes, I never said those things. And Dave turns and goes, play the clip.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah.

[F]

What?

[Top Lobster]

Oh, my God. I mean. And then just in his own face, out of his own, you know, in his own words, Chris Cuomo says exactly what he denied having said. And it was so plain to see for anybody who was watching that I live streamed that entire conversation. And it was. It was. It was great. So that's the Dave Smith that I want to remember. And I don't begrudge him at all. I know he was in a strange position with us. It's. It was different. It's not something he's accustomed to.

[Clint Russell]

So that's the thing. Dave Smith is. Is so great. I think he's great on almost on everything, pretty much. He asked, but why would I want to have a conversation about something like, I have you on. And I just go, I agree. Like, that's retarded. I want to have an actual conversation with you about something that maybe we don't necessarily agree. Maybe even I'm wrong. Maybe I'm missing something. But it didn't get. I don't think it got there adequately, which is fine.

[Top Lobster]

We didn't get that far.

[Clint Russell]

No. Maybe that's our fault. But I thought it was fun and Dave's fucking champ for spending the time with us. So without further ado, here's the episode with Dave Smith. This transmission transition music.

[E]

We are being hypnotized by people like this.

[Dave Smith]

News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.

[E]

We are in a country and in a world that is being run by un, unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim. It's like we all know what's going down, but no one's saying, what happened.

[F]

To the home of the brave?

[Dave Smith]

These take control this now when no one's talking about how they made us and everybody's just walking around.

[F]

Welcome to the end of day.

[Dave Smith]

Everybody is aware that the government.

[F]

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven, that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guest, Top has a quick announcement to make.

[Clint Russell]

Yes. So as always, Top lobster dot com. Go there, buy some. But we recently got a date for Bohemian Grove, so that's really important to our listeners. And it's like, it couldn't have came on, like, a better day than we have, like, such a big guest. So October 25th and the 26th, it's going to be big.

[F]

Guess you.

Is that singular? Dude, is that singular? Unbelievably disrespectful.

[Clint Russell]

Clint was a pity invite. I was like, yo. I was like, I know how much you love to talk about.

[F]

He asked us. Didn't he ask us?

[Clint Russell]

He did. He was like. He was like, please, please, please, please. I ignored him. I ignored him. And I was like, fine, this is pitiful, but all right, you're on it.

[F]

No, that's true.

Awesome. So the 20, 25th and the 26th, is it. Was that a Saturday?

[Clint Russell]

A 24th and the 25th. It's going to be a live podcast and then it'll be X. We'll have an exclamation point at the second night with a live stand up comedy. We're working on all the stand up comedians and there's some big ones in there. So let's go.

[F]

Yeah, it's gonna be a banger, guys. So look forward to Bohemian Grove. Wait for those tickets to drop. We'll make an announcement when they do. So today's guest. This is gonna be an awesome episode, and I'm sure it's gonna go all over the place. Today we are joined by Dave Smith and Clint Russell, two men that really don't need any introduction, but it's kind of what we do here, so I'm gonna make you do it anyway. Dave Smith. Smith, can you let the people know where it is? They can find your work?

[Dave Smith]

Sure. Comic Dave Smith.com is my website, and part of the problem is my podcast and Legion of Skanks. And I'm at Comic Dave Smith on Twitter.

[F]

Well, at Liberty Top.

Didn't like that.

At Liberty Log Pod on x just hit 140k today. Thank you guys for following me. If you want to support my work, you can subscribe there. Liberty Lockdown on YouTube, rumble everywhere else. Let's get into it.

If awesome recovers, he'll be all right. I'm sure he's beating his kids or something like that, so.

I mean, this very Christian of him.

It is. Well, I think that's in the Bible, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure which. Which verse, but this is coming right off the back of two really fascinating things. Dave, I don't know if you know how this show goes, but we're kind of like unhinged, schizophrenic people who happen to have enough charisma to kind of carry a show.

[Dave Smith]

And I'll be the judge of that.

[F]

Yeah, we'll see how it goes. What? One of the things that's very interesting that's happened lately, besides your interaction with Cuomo, which I thought was fantastic on the Patrick Bet David podcast, but also Clint Russell, having talked to. What was it, Clint, she was a. A Pfizer whistleblower of 10 years. She worked there.

Yeah, yeah, she was in, like, safety, and she. She came on the show. She. She's been on a bunch of big shows, and what she had to say was pretty shocking. And this is coming from someone who has followed, obviously, the COVID hysteria for years, but her description of the vaccines and how people on the production supply line were crying as they realized what they had put in their bodies was this.

[Dave Smith]

This was on your show, Clint?

[F]

Yeah, yeah, it was. Only I couldn't put it on YouTube. So it's rumble. So most people. Most people haven't even seen it, unfortunately. But yeah, it was.

It was actually pretty harrowing, the. The idea that. And I know she said that there wasn't a tremendous amount of people in the room, but that half of them were crying after seeing something. A reaction that. That caused the inoculation to glow. Yeah, to glow. So pretty damning. And the people that were crying were actually people that had had these things in them. They had actually received the vaccine. So. But one of the more fascinating things that happened during that episode, especially for me to watch it happen to Clint, because from where we've been sitting, it was nuts.

[Clint Russell]

It really was.

[F]

I. I was watching your reaction initially when she said it. Your face didn't change. So. So, Dave, what ends up happening is on. During this interview, Clint says, well, it doesn't seem to me that the vaccine was meant to protect us from the virus. But it also doesn't seem, and I'm paraphrasing, I'm going to fuck some of this up. But it also doesn't seem that this is about money, because they can print the money, right? Money doesn't seem to be an issue here. I don't think this was for monetary gains. And he asked her, in her opinion, what the purpose of it was. And first she started by saying, what's your religious background? And then she followed it up by saying, this is about the Nephilim, which you've already seen the name of the show, Nephilim Death Squad. We've been kind of harping at Clint for the longest time now about. About the return of the biblical entities known as the Nephilim, and. And the implications that that's going to have on our reality. And so Nephilim has, and I want to start the show off this way, really been injected into the culture. I. I kind of want to say that that's because of me and Top. I mean, not for nothing, but at least the conversation on Twitter got rolling in a certain direction. So I want.

Didn't have anything to do with Tucker Carlson saying it on Joe Rogan. It's because of your show, for sure.

Well, before we were saying it, well.

[Clint Russell]

Before we went on, we went on your gay show.

[Dave Smith]

But is there a link there between you guys saying it and Tucker saying it on Rogan's podcast?

[Clint Russell]

Here's. Here's. I think so saying it. We were saying this shit, and then it. Do you remember the Las Vegas aliens?

[F]

Good point.

[Clint Russell]

Aliens in Las Vegas.

[Dave Smith]

You sound like you're not coming out of your microphone, dude.

[Clint Russell]

I don't think I am. Hold on.

[Dave Smith]

I mean, it's not like. It's not awful, but.

[F]

No, I think you just got to turn your gain up a little bit. People always complain it's because I shout. That doesn't help.

[Clint Russell]

Hear me now?

[F]

You sound great. Dude.

[Dave Smith]

This just sounds a little the same.

[F]

They're subverting you in real time.

No, it Sounds a little quiet.

[Dave Smith]

I mean, if we were Nephilim, this is what we'd be saying. But that doesn't mean we necessarily are.

[Clint Russell]

You guys might be, because this never happens. I just went on my rodecaster just like out turned off.

[F]

Is that what happened?

[Clint Russell]

Yes.

[Top Lobster]

We are unbelievable.

[Dave Smith]

We also are pretty gigantic compared to you.

[F]

Yeah, Dave and I are both six one.

Basically Nephilim, dude, I'm basically a baby. I'm five seven. And every time I see Clint cradles me in his arms, I think you.

[Dave Smith]

Guys might just be short. That just might be the whole thing here.

[F]

We're not gonna get giants.

[Clint Russell]

You're just short.

[F]

Our entire narrative is falling apart in real time. I don't want to talk about that. All right, look, I want to pull this up because I think this is fast. Well, actually to tops, please. Point. You want to finish that point because you were talking about these aliens in Vegas.

[Clint Russell]

They were aliens in Vegas and they were like 10 foot aliens or 8 foot aliens or something. And it was reported, the cops got involved, there was body cam footage, and they just kept harping on like ten foot aliens. Then a couple months later, we just start saying Nephilim. But like, we've been, I've been trying to like, meme this into the zeitgeist. Then the Miami incident happens right by Clint, and now they're 10 foot Nephilim. Now they're instead of aliens, they're calling them Nephilim. So the vernacular has changed. Something happened in the culture that was ready to switch. And then Tucker Carlson comes like a couple months after that, talking about, and he's talking about it again more recently, which we wanted to also bring up with you. How do you feel about this, Dave?

[Dave Smith]

I think that, so I, I, I'm very skeptical about like, any of the that comes out because so much of the shit, you know, like the UFO stuff, they wouldn't use the term, but you know, it comes from the Pentagon, the Defense Department, all this stuff. I don't know. I don't know the specific videos you're talking about, but I'm kind of like, dude, we all got HD cameras in our pockets at this point. I'll start taking things seriously when I see some real fucking conclusive video.

[F]

You don't understand, Dave. They have an organic capability to emit something called ultrasound. It causes a vibrational disturbance that you can't even when you look at them, they look blurry. Right.

[Dave Smith]

Anytime that like a conspiracy is built around the obvious objection to it, that's just immediately dismissed. But Why I will say is that. And I've come to believe this more as I've gotten older, that Tucker's whole point about how basically everyone outside of post World War II American and Western European societies have always accepted as a like point of obvious truth that there is a spiritual component to life and that we interact with this spiritual component and there are forces of good and forces of evil. I think that is 100% true. I don't. In terms of any of these like physical manifestations of it. I. I'm. My starting point is to be a skeptic and I've yet to hear anything that's like overwhelmed that.

[F]

So when you hear. And I want to play it actually wait a.

[Clint Russell]

Physical manifestations of it are not the important part. It's like, like Tucker was saying, Everybody up until 1945 and up until 1945 till now was aware that there was a spiritual realm and that there was some kind of spiritual battle going on. And now we act as if like no big deal.

[Dave Smith]

Well, it's like, because it's the other side to the coin by the way of just believing in God. And it almost never comes up, right? Like the. The way people think about it is like, do you believe in God or do you not believe in God? You're either an atheist or you're a religious person. But believing in God is like a double sided coin. When you believe in God, you almost always also believe in some type of like evil spirit. Even if your religion doesn't have like hell per se in it, like Judaism or something like that, if you believe in God, you still believe. There's things God wants you to do and therefore if you don't do them, you're in a bad position. It's like believing in God also requires this belief in like the evil and the darkness. And that's the other thing missing, I think from the atheist worldview that rarely comes up is that it's not just God, it's God verse, like despair.

[F]

Well, this is what I would.

[Clint Russell]

You and that guy got caught up. I. Listen, what's his name?

[Dave Smith]

Fucking whatever, Andrew.

[F]

Let me ask you something, Dave. Do you own yourself?

[Dave Smith]

Yes, I do.

[Clint Russell]

Answer the question, Dave.

[F]

Answer the goddamn question, dude.

[Dave Smith]

Well, yeah, we could talk about that debate if you want to. I mean, look, I definitely didn't do a great job in it. I probably had one of my worst debate performances. I don't. Part of it is on me. Part of it is just that I found the thing so bad faith and tedious and I just Wasn't in the mood, which rarely, like happens to me. Just like the whole thing was like, I don't really care to do this.

[F]

A couple months ago, immigration debate that turned into talking about whether or not the, like Pakistanis should allow Afghanistan refugees and they wanted to apply libertarian theory to it. And I was just like, you know what? It, I don't even want to have this conversation with you. I just checked.

[Clint Russell]

That guy was so disrespectful. And it's like, if I was you, I would have signed off. I couldn't get past the first 30 minutes, try to do it twice in like preparation.

[F]

Well, you know what happens if he signs off? It's all of a sudden it's a win. It's, I defeated Dave Smith. He ran away and it's like I.

[Dave Smith]

Came pretty close at one point and the, what he was doing was. And you know, it's a funny thing because I just basically, in a sense, I was like, I was like, dude, are we doing this or what? I don't really fucking care if we are. And the problem with that, and I've learned this lesson before, is that for audiences, you have to hold their hand and give them a narrative. And I didn't do that in the debate. And that allowed enough of his people to go, oh, you got fucking destroyed, or whatever, which really never happens to me in debate. So I'll give him that. He gave his base enough that they could say that and he could claim it or whatever. But the truth is that if you actually look at the arguments, I mean I, I felt like I actually kind of exposed this whole thing with a few follow up questions that he just completely dodged. I just wasn't like prosecuting the case like a dick. And I wasn't going to interrupt him and ask him the same questions over and over. But like, there were a few points. Like immediately he asked the question of like, how I said, yes, I own myself. And he goes, demonstrate it or prove it or something like that.

[F]

What do you stand up and do a fudgeing backflip?

[Dave Smith]

Well, it's like a, it's a very clunky, goofy thing to claim. Like if, like I own my house and no one would dispute that, but if you just went demonstrate it, like, do I have to get a deed? Does the deed. Do you know that this is a real deed? Do you know? I don't know, like, show me the title. And so, but you know, and then I asked him at one point if he owned the guitar behind him and he was like, yeah. And I was like, demonstrate it. And he had nothing. He had no response. So he also had no. But I just kind of let that go because I was like, isn't this obvious to anyone watching that? That's kind of blows up.

[F]

It also feels very gay to play the same game.

[Dave Smith]

I also, I will say, look, as someone who used to be an atheist who now believes in God, it's an interesting perspective for people who are that. You kind of have the perspective of an atheist and then you also have the perspective of being a believer. That being said, belief can, especially in these type of Christian debates, can really become a cop out from a debate where now you're like, oh, see, you have the task of demonstrating your ownership. And then if I go, well, how do you demonstrate anything? I can just say divine intervention, and therefore I don't have to have anything else to say. It's like, yeah, that's not really a debate. You kind of still have to have an argument. I also, by the way, I thought, you know, the thing on taxes, I thought he had no real position for, but he was doing a thing where. And this is the point where I almost left the conversation is he asked me. The question he asked me was like something along the lines of I'd have to go back and rewatch. It was something close to like, how can you say something is immoral? Like, it was like, how. How can you have morality? Which is a fairly deep question. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, this isn't like we're having any type of tangible debate. Exactly. We're getting way into like kind of abstract, core, fundamental first principles. And then I went to start asking that and he interrupts with the question again and then interrupts with the question again. And that's when I was just like, dude, like, if we're going to do this, if you're going to ask a deep question like that, you got to give someone 45 seconds before you fucking interrupt them again. Like, let me. So that was just. To me, it was kind of like, this is tedious and seems kind of bad faith. And that's it.

[F]

But I have a question. Aside from the debate itself. Sure. But I was just very curious. From my vantage point, I was, I was surprised that you didn't defend some of the more unpopular libertarian positions. And I felt like, yeah, go ahead, sure.

[Clint Russell]

It's a good question. Because we should like the incest with.

[F]

Yeah, well, incest, gay marriage, drug, like legalizing all drugs. He was like, he's like, I Want a direct answer for these four things. And. And you basically didn't. Maybe it was because he cut you off, but you never got to basically saying yes or no on most of them.

[Clint Russell]

I want to know where Dave is at now, post this whole LP debacle. Because when one of my points, when I stopped listening to part of the problem as much as I. I listen every single. You know, like when it was out and it was when you got like, into the party. Because then I was like, I don't. I don't find this compelling. I don't like this party. After a while of seeing what it is it represented. It looked like the church to me, but it was just politics. Like the. The church, but no God. So I'm like, what the are we doing here has. You have your chances. Your stances changed. Because I did. Clint noticed that right away, and I said, yeah, usually you'd have like a really sound argument for that, but you just decided no.

[Dave Smith]

Well, look. So. Okay, well, when he started with the. Well, essentially, to answer your question, no, my stances really haven't changed on any of the hardcore libertarian stuff. I guess what I was. And I'm sure I could have done a better job in this. I was also. Look, I was a little bit off my game that night. I also. And this is really a first for me, but it was kind of like just coming off all of the shows that I had just done. Like, I literally just the. That month done Tucker and Rogan and Open for Trump with Clint, and I took Cuomo's scalp, which really was like the big thing for me, and just keep. I found him off putting and kind of being a dick at first. It was better at the end, and I was just like, I don't care. I don't care to have this fight, like, you know, which is on me. That's 100 on me. It's like, you know what that's called in.

[F]

In sports? It's called a letdown game.

[Dave Smith]

Like, yeah, kind. It was kind of that for me.

[Top Lobster]

You know, like on you, though, when a guy.

[F]

A little bit out. No.

[Dave Smith]

Yes, it is on me because, like, there's no. No excuses. And also, like, I did the show, so once you're there, it's my job. It's my job to be on once I'm on any show. No, look, he started with the incest example because.

[Clint Russell]

Which.

[Dave Smith]

What I was told was we were there to debate Christian populism versus libertarianism. I'm thinking we're having a debate about the current State of America. And what is a better remedy for it? You know what I mean? Which is not at all what the debate ended up being. I think that starting with the question of incest is obviously like, it is a reducto absurdum. It's not like people were saying, he didn't even realize. It was like, yeah, no, I get that. It's just that you're also starting with something that is designed, you know, to have a very deep rooted genetic disgust impulse. Like, it's just something that it almost removes, like, rational thought from your head when you even start thinking about it. And the point I was kind of making was that it's like, no, look, I. In my heart of hearts, what I still believe is I'm a Rothbardian ancap and I will make an argument for why people have natural rights and all of this shit. It's just like, where I'm at today in my life, we live under the biggest government in the history of the world, and we're on the verge of World War 3 and they're doing all types of experiments with our society that seem to be trial balloons for like, some real deal Maoist nightmare coming up in the future.

[F]

And if you're arguing about incest law.

[Dave Smith]

If government was reduced down to, like, laws against incest, I'm just like, yeah, guys, I'm not in this fight anymore. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be a libertarian and go like, I got to fight to make sure this incest law is repealed. So if that's the thing you want to go to in your debate, fine, whatever. Keep that illegal. Like, I just don't care. Let's move on to what actually fucking, like, we're here to talk about. I figured that was more my attitude.

[Clint Russell]

I got it.

[Dave Smith]

I see now, in terms of the Libertarian Party, obviously that's. That's a different situation. And I, I think I'm still at where I said I was on my show after the convention, which is kind of. That I'm kind of taking a step back and reassessing and just thinking, what are my best, you know, like, what's my time best spent? Look, the Mises Caucus was always, and this is the truth, it was always a passion project for me, a cause I believed in. It wasn't something that was like, this is where I can get the most bang for my buck or anything like that. There was nothing really in it for me other than trying to lead this fucking thing. And then, you know, when I decided not to run, I kind of had Let down a lot of people who were there because I had, like, kind of led them into it. And so then I. I still feel some type of obligation to those people, but I also have an obligation to tell the truth to my audience. Huh.

[Clint Russell]

Do you think you would have even won this nomination? This is.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I would have. I would have won it, but it's not.

[Clint Russell]

Here's the thing, though. It's not a popularity contest. It's filled with faggots and retards and losers. And this is why I am not a libertarian anymore. It's not because of the people in the Mises caucus who have. They did a bad job of. I don't know how you. You don't just completely clean house and get the people away from, like, these people that represent.

[Dave Smith]

It's not. It's not that easy. It's. It's. It's much easier to sit on, you know, and sit on the sidelines and say, how do you not just get rid of all these people? But it's not. It's not that easy the way the organization is.

[F]

Let me put this in perspective, because the only reason I lost is because Rec lost, and I still got 47%. So if you think Dave, during the first round, wouldn't have got over 50%.

[Dave Smith]

No, no. But it's not. It's not even that. I would have been so much more, like, in that room. It's possible I could have lost, like, in that room. It comes down to 45% of them were for sure going to vote for me. How much. How much of the people in the middle would have been persuaded, Probably I still could have won that room. I think there would have been enough people in the middle who would have been like, just for the party, for the party. This is obviously the best thing to do. But the point isn't any of that. The point, if I was running, the room would have been 90% my people.

[F]

That's like.

[Dave Smith]

They would have been a whole different thing. The momentum never would have, like, crashed the way it did. That's why it is ultimately on me that all of this happened. We'll see. Maybe it's for better or for worse. Who knows in the long run? But. But the point is that we were 70% of the room in Reno. We were only 45% of the room in D.C. so it would have gone from 70 to higher than that. I mean, I really think I just got enough people. I know that, like, if I were running, they'd be going to their state convention and be it become a delegate and all that shit. Whereas, like, they wouldn't necessarily have done that for. For Reckonwald.

[F]

Yep.

[Clint Russell]

Okay. Where do you. Does the Libertarian Party or Libertarian ideas, do they lead to what we see at every convention? Because I. I bought David to the Georgia convention and this is. This has been a hard one for me. Like, I like these ideas and I've read all the. And I listened to all the podcasts and then I look and. And it's. This latest example is like, this is what it leads to. This gay dude and a cop.

[Dave Smith]

Well, I mean, what it comes down to.

[F]

This is the same question that, that Vin Armani asked you three years ago, I think maybe on my show.

[Clint Russell]

And I feel like this guy now because of what's been going on.

[Dave Smith]

Well, so I'll say this. I think it's probably much more of a comment on what bureaucracy leads to or what a political party leads to than what, like, actually implemented libertarianism leads to. Dude, there's a. If you want to get down on the lp, there's a bunch of articles that Murray Rothbard wrote in like, 89 and 90 about the libertarian Party, like, as he was leaving it. And I will say it's. It's shocking how much of that still applies. Now, my. Look, my gamble here for a while with the LP when I was planning on running, and I still. Look, there's a thing where, like, look for all those guys who were like, critics of the LP strategy and all of that. Look, I. Again, it's kind of like, you can take your victory lap if you want to. The thing has. Has ended up with Chase being the nominee. I get the point of that, but what changed was me deciding not to run. And the. The gamble that I was making was like, yeah, I've read all that Rothbard shit. I get all your criticisms of the party, but I'm in this unique position where I have a bigger audience than the entire party apparatus put together, and I can kind of lead this charge. And if I'm the guy running, then I will be able to control what the messaging is that represents libertarianism. And so I think we could have overcome a lot of these problems. The flaw in the strategy was that I ended up not being able to do it. But anyway, one of the things Rothbard talks about was how the liberty movement in general, and he broke it up into two broad categories that he called. He called rednecks and yuppies and love the rednecks because. And he was like, give me the Rednecks. He's like, screw these yuppies. I want the rednecks. No, no, no, these are not Jewish people. But the non Jews. No, but there's something where, look, if you're talking about like implementing just in theory, like you could snap your fingers and you implemented like laissez faire, free markets and in the country or something like that, it's. No, you're not just doing that for weirdos who are at the lp. You're doing that for all of blue collar America. You know what I mean? And like, that's so. No, I don't think that in any sense the convention or the gayness of the convention that you're kind of getting at is. Is like, that's what libertarian policies lead to.

[F]

It's very disheartening. As somebody who top. He shows me what libertarianism is, he explains it to me, I go, oh, that's. That's pretty interesting. He goes, these are the people who.

[Clint Russell]

Are involved with it turns into.

[F]

Well, and I look at the people that are involved with it and I'm like, oh, these are people that, you know, you could admire. And, and it's very much like meeting someone and being like, oh, no, they're. They're retarded. Like, I was brought to this entire convention and I looked around at these people and then I looked at the way that it ended and I went, that's strange. This is not at all.

[Top Lobster]

There's.

[Clint Russell]

There's that side, right? There's the side of this goofy side that you see, and that's really fun to dunk on and talk about. But then there's the side of, like.

[Top Lobster]

If this actually does work, what the values actually are.

[F]

I understand that the people aren't a reflection of the, the, the principles themselves are not that they're separated from the people who show up, the goofy who show up, or the people who are.

[Dave Smith]

But this happens a lot. There's just. There's a separation between like, say, an id, like the belief in a set of policies, and then the people who are attracted to that belief in a set of policies are not all exactly the same thing. And you get this a lot. Look, dude, I bet like, abolitionists during slavery had like, some real goofball characters in there. Because when you're taking a position, like in 1845, when like 1% of the country supported abolishing slavery, who the fuck is going to be the crazy enough person to go along with that 1% of people? You're going to get like some wild types of characters. Look at even like a, like Norman Finkelstein or someone like that who's like, so great on the history of the Israel war, but he's like, clearly like a very bizarre guy. Like, who do you have to be to be the Jew who stands up and goes, like, in the 70s, stood up and was like, no there. You know what I mean? Like, this is a colonial power Israel, like you, kind of. So I just think those two things need to be separated, like the person and the views.

[F]

I think it's important too, to realize that when you're pitching freedom, it's gonna also attract a lot of people. They're like, keep your hands off my furry outfit, you know? Yeah.

[Clint Russell]

What this is, this is like the.

[F]

Whole idea, but this is my point, though, is that you're going to attract. You're going to attract people that want to be left alone to live a very honorable moral lifestyle, and then you're going to attract a bunch of degenerate lunatics that just want to be left alone so they can be as perverse as possible. So you're going to get both.

[Clint Russell]

Here's the thing, though. You guys have huge, sizable audiences that you're convincing them, convincing them of these ideas. We have no idea what their actual ideals and their morals are. So you're preaching like, half of this thing. That could be very dangerous.

[Dave Smith]

Well, what do you mean?

[F]

If they're listening to us, then. Then you already know that their morals are not in the degenerate lane, that they're like, they're not, they're not there because they want to, you know, do drugs and then, you know, traffic children. They're there because they're listening to us like that. I don't, I don't see how you would get that from listening.

[Clint Russell]

I'll just go, like, jump. I'll jump the fence here. The, the Libertarian Party, the, the good ones, where are they at on abortion? Because as far as I'm concerned, this just looks like a mass murder blood ritual to me. Where are they at on that? This is very important when we're talking about if we're having freedom or not.

[Dave Smith]

Well, yeah, I mean, I, I certainly don't disagree with that. That's why I've made my feelings on abortion very clear. And so, like, look, if your argument is that somebody who's a pro choice libertarian is still, like, basically really horrible on this very important issue, I don't disagree with that. Like, I think, yeah, I think abortion is particularly like, there, There are exceptional cases of abortion that are like really crazy situations like where the baby is very sick or something like that and is.

[Clint Russell]

I don't want to do this argument.

[Dave Smith]

But I'm saying like those, those things aside, the idea of abortion, the way it is practiced for the most part in our country. Yeah, it's pretty, it's a pretty sick.

[Clint Russell]

Well, Planned Parenthood is shaped like a pyramid and they're killing.

[F]

It's literally made by. What was her name? Margaret Sanger? Was it Margaret Sanger? Yeah. Who's a. What's the eugenics? And I don't think she was a big fan of black people either. And it's like, who's the number one customer base? Who's the number one customer of Planned Parenthood? It's fucking the black community. And you go, well, what apparatus allows that to survive? Is that. Well, yeah, but does that fall under that too?

[Dave Smith]

Well, the government is the apparatus that allows that to survive.

[F]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

This is like, you know, the government, the government education system. I mean, that's, that is kind of. I mean, you're talking about a government funded organization. So that I'd say that's at least part of it. You know, I think there's also a thing with a lot of libertarians, particularly the more left leaning libertarians, where there's also a weird thing. When we don't live in a libertarian society and all of these things exist, it's very easy for them to say they're libertarians. Like, yeah, I believe that no tax dollars should go to Planned Parenthood, but I still believe in the right to do it. But that's also because they have the luxury of like having a Planned Parenthood that does have tax dollars go to it. And you wonder if that society were to actually be brought about, how many of them would still be ideologically libertarians? Or like how many of them would then at that point, you know, like, if welfare was actually gone in all of its forms, would you still be just advocating for it? Or would you maybe lose your principles and start advocating it returns? Because I think like many of us know that's one of the problems with the degeneracy in the libertarian movement is it's almost like I feel like libertarianism is the solution to their problem. Like, okay, see how that's going to work out under real free market conditions.

[Clint Russell]

And dog, we know how it works out. It's like, would you, would you live at Pork Fest?

[Dave Smith]

No.

[Clint Russell]

Exactly. Because that's what it is. It's fucking.

[Dave Smith]

I wouldn't bring my kids to Pork Fest.

[Clint Russell]

Me neither. But that's a libertarian society. And I look at them, I appreciate that they're doing it the right way, but I'm like, this shit is kind of evil looking.

[Dave Smith]

But here's the thing again. You're, you're, you're conflating the people who are attracted to the message of libertarianism. And that's libertarian society. That's no more libertarian or less libertarian than any festival that you go to. And if you go to a festival, you could go to Skank Fest, or you could go to Pork Fest, or you could go to an Amish festival, or you could go to like some Christian festival or whatever. It's like there's, that's. And they're all equally libertarian. I mean, in the sense that there's a government and stuff like that, and they're still just organizing like voluntarily. So I don't think that that's, I think what the libertarian outcome. The point I was getting, which I think kind of contradicts your point, is that I actually think that the, the absence of a welfare state and the absence of like overreaching government is going to do more to put out the flame of degeneracy than almost any other policy short of, you know, like real deal authoritarian policies which are kind of popular to flirt with amongst like reactionary groups. But you also really wouldn't want to live under, under those, you really don't want to live under a North Korea type system or a Nazi type system. It's really like even as bad as what we have right now is there is worse and those systems actually are worse. So what? Libertarianism. Libertarianism is the ultimate compromise. In a way. It's, here's a way to put out the degeneracy, but do it without beating people over the head with a, with a baton.

[Clint Russell]

Okay, I, and I agree, I'm not gonna get goofy on you and say like, let's, let's all be Nazis. It's a funny meme, right? Like all the shit that we say, it's hilarious. It moves the culture in a certain way and it lets people, lets people's minds open and pushes boundaries. That's fun. What I'm saying is libertarianism kind of always does go back to that. But the best kind of libertarianism are the people that we see. The best kind. Who are the best libertarians, in your opinion?

[Dave Smith]

The best libertarians living well, Ron Paul, number one. Lou Rockwell, Hans Herman Hoppa, Tom Woods, Jeff Geist, you know, Scott Horton. I, I don't know. Whenever I do this, I'M gonna be missing somebody.

[Clint Russell]

My top three, My top three would be Ron Paul, who is, well, he's a Christian, but main thing, God. Tom Woods, Catholic God. Jeff Dice, I think he's also, I think he's an ortho. I'm not even sure. But God, there is some. No, he's not.

[Dave Smith]

I don't know, I don't know how much Jeff Dice talks about any of this stuff, but I don't, I think.

[Clint Russell]

I think it should be talked about more because the, the brand of libertarianism that Ron Paul is going to present to you is going to be vastly different than one of, I don't know, like Walter Block. And then there's that question of, well, what's missing? What's missing in this recipe here? And you know, it's not popular to say, but I'm just going to say it. God, I think God is missing from.

[F]

I don't think that's true though, because Ron Paul very rarely talked about God. That's not, that's not what his message was. That's not what the movement was about. It wasn't him going like, we all got to come to God and then end the Fed. It was just end the Fed. You know, his, his prescription was abolish the system that is oppressing us. And then from there it's up to you what you create. But yes, for him personally and for all of the best libertarians I know, they were living in a moral, you know, I don't know if Christ like fashion, but certainly, you know, family oriented type of way.

[Clint Russell]

Where does that come from? Where do those morals come from? Because like this, this is kind of what you were talking about with that guy. Did they come from God or do they come from your ideas and what you think, think as a, as a person. I, I don't, I don't know. But the, the pattern that I'm recognizing, the people that I agree with most, which would be a Ron Paul and like a Tom woods type, they align with me on those important issues. And I now I'm saying, why, why are, are we, are we, are you guys attracting a certain type of person? Are you missing something? What's going on? How could, how could this be perfected, done better? There's no reason that, that it should be the laughingstock that it is now because the momentum and the role that the Libertarian Party was playing in the last four years, right up until Trump goes on the stage. And again, I don't know what the fuck these people are thinking, but like you guys are major players. And it's like, well, there's. We're missing something here. What. What's going on?

[Dave Smith]

Well, look, there's. There's a lot there. So I will say that, okay, the. One of the things that first started softening me on my atheism was exactly what you're talking about. That just so many of the people who I thought were, like, the best people were believers. And this isn't what, you know, this isn't how I found God. But it did, like, soften me on my atheism. It started making me, I think, like, opening me up toward the possibility a little bit more. And not just libertarians, just like, people I know in my life who are like, oh, the best people I know are like, all Christian. Oh, that's kind of interesting, you know, and. And some. And some Jewish. But there's. To your point with the lp, look, this is one of the major things that's kind of made me take a step back, and I. I feel like my obligation, as always, is to be, you know, blunt and honest with my audience and that I was like, look, when. When our people were 70% of the room, it didn't really seem to matter as much because we could just jam through whatever we wanted to and we would pick all of the people. And it was like, okay, the freaks are kind of kept over in the corner a little bit. With us being 45% of the room, it just didn't feel that way anymore. And it did feel like, oh, these guys, like, they're. I don't know, just a lot of people there who are the type of people who are never going to persuade others that there's anything serious here because you're so fundamentally unserious. And so that is. That is a problem.

[F]

And they're viciously upset with the people that are good at messaging their belief system, which is always a insult to injury. I mean, let's just be honest, like, there's very. There was very limited, if any, upside for me to be running for vp. So for Dave, there's literally negative upside, most likely because you're not going to get on any bigger platforms unless you end up on a debate stage or something like that with RFK or something crazy. So it's like the. The upside for our best messengers to do that role is. Is negative. Like it. So it's very. It's very tough to look.

[Dave Smith]

And I also do it. And look, none of this is the reason why I didn't run.

[F]

No, I know, but I was speaking for Other cases.

[Dave Smith]

No, no. But I think it's a point. Point worth making is that it's like, yeah, look, that's the reality of the situation for any of the guys who you'd want to do this. And if you just say, like a short list of people like me or Clint, that a lot of our guys wanted to run and people I think would have gotten way behind Clint running for president if he had when I had, you know, and they came to you asking you for that.

[F]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

Or if you'd want to.

[F]

That's why you can't take all the blame either, because I didn't do it and I would have won, too. So there you go.

[Dave Smith]

Take a little bit off me. But like Tom woods or Jeff Dice or like, anyone like that, if you're asking them to run for president on the Libertarian Party ticket, you're asking those people to make an enormous sacrifice. That's just a factual matter. It just is what it is. It would be an enormous sacrifice for any of them to do that. Tom woods is a wife. He's got five daughters. He's very, very successful, like a very successful entrepreneur. And you would be asking him to just make this enormous sacrifice and a sacrifice for his family. And that's true for all these guys. And then if they were to go do it, you go like, oh, yeah, and like, 20% of the LP is going to try to ruin your life. Like, not even, like, oppose you on some issues. I'm saying, literally try to ruin your life. They're going to try. Oh, and then, by the way, on top of that, at least in my experience, I can't even. I can't even count on my own side. Like, when the plan was to go do this, I can't count on the guys in New Hampshire to not just say, no, fuck you, we're doing what we're doing. And you go. And I can't go, dude, you're making us all look awful. Just please stop doing this. Nope, they won't do that. If I have one strategy in Arizona where I think we should back this former anarchist who's Ron Paul endorsed, and instead of running a Libertarian for no reason to spoil it, mutiny on my hands. And so I don't, like, I don't completely disagree with some of the dynamics you're talking about. Top. And I think there's even more than you're getting at that make this really difficult. And that's a part of why I got to take a step back now, now that this, this cycle is over and it ends with Chase as the nominee. I kind of have to reevaluate. You know, I'm the guy I am, and I'm going to keep being the guy I am. If I'm going to be like, hey, look, here's what we should do. I got to make damn sure that that's the right thing to do. That being said, I don't think any of that is a. Is a comment on the legal theory of libertarianism, if that makes sense.

[F]

Can I add. Can I add one quick thing because you continue to point at this, like, because libertarianism is attractive to some people that we find reprehensible. Maybe the philosophy itself is. Is what's flawed. And I, and I take your, your point seriously. I think that the, the issue is that.

[Clint Russell]

Not just flawed, Clint, but I think it's close to Satanism, but go ahead.

[F]

Yes, I, I know, and we'll get into that. But from my vantage point, libertarianism is a thin philosophy where, like, it's only. It's only really describing how the society ought to be structured when it comes to governance. It's not about the moral framework of the people. The moral framework of the people. People, I think is. Is ultimately like, it's requisite that you have a moral people if you're going to have a sound libertarian society. So, like, you need both. But in terms of libertarian philosophy, for the most part, it is not. It is not a, A philosophy and totality of, like, how every single human is to think and behave and like, their moral makeup. I think this is why, like, so many of the best libertarians do have a Christian background or, or a religious background. So I think that's. That's the issue. That or the pushback I wanted to give you. Is that like, you're describing it as if, like, libertarianism leads to Satanism or devil worship or whatever. It's like, I, I don't know any libertarians that do that or feel that way. I haven't seen it myself.

[Clint Russell]

Party that was collecting hair off of chairs to put. Whatever.

[Dave Smith]

No, there's. No one's denying there's some crazies there.

[F]

Well, listen, listen, I wanna. I gotta stare because we're 42 minutes into a show called Nephilim Death Squad and it's time to get weird because I'm gonna have a stroke if we mention anything else that has to do with the Libertarian Party at this point. What I want to talk about is. Is something that I, I genuinely want to ask you guys because I find you both, I, I find you both fascinating in the journey that you're on top. I mean, I'm sorry. Clint keeps getting this sort of nephilim question knocking at his door. Dave, you. You've come over to believing that there's a God, and it was with the. The birth of your child. Correct. How long has that been now?

[Dave Smith]

Five years ago. Five and a half years ago.

[F]

Five and a half years ago. When you see things. Because if there's a God, right. When. When you, when you talk about God, you. You're saying that there is a. A creator to this world and he's of a spiritual nature, right? Because not physically in this realm. And so somewhere in a spiritual realm, there is a force that has created this entire universe that we inhabit. Is that as far as you're willing to go?

[Dave Smith]

Well, yeah. And that. And that he's like one thing. Like it's one God, and that he wants us to be good.

[F]

Okay.

[Dave Smith]

And that there's like. Like that's. It's kind of hard to, like, describe or exactly put into words, but it's just like finding it this, like, the thing that you always had in your mind about God, that's real. It's a force. You know what I mean? And it's. It's singular, and it's completely in charge and wants us to be good people.

[F]

Now, would you venture to imagine. Go ahead.

[Clint Russell]

That. That idea. So he wants us to be good? Yeah. That's. That's like, what's good. We don't know what God.

[Dave Smith]

I. I feel like I know. I think that's one of the things that really. That really kind of opened me up to it was that it was like this very weird feeling that, like, I know what he wants from me. If you.

[F]

I. I believe that, like, honorable, like to do honorable look after kids.

[Dave Smith]

I mean, I could give you very specific things, but it's like the. If you're ever. When you're at your lowest point and you start talking to God, which. Which anyone, any atheist included, could be pushed to that point. Like, they're. Whatever they say there's no atheist in a foxhole or whatever. That. You know what I mean? Like, your planes going down, you start believing pretty quickly. And that. That in itself is kind of interesting that when the shit hits the fan, we all kind of know God exists. But also immediately you're going to start bargaining with him and you're going to find out, you know, exactly what he wants. You're gonna be like, okay, I promise I'll stop doing this. I promise. I'LL do this. I know. I gotta call my mom. No more. I know. I gotta always protect my kids. I know. I'll be a good husband to my wife. I'll do it. You know what I mean? Like you, you kind of find out right away that you do actually know what he wants from rock bottom.

[F]

Does have a way.

[Clint Russell]

He wants you to choose him. This is, this is the whole idea of what, what I'm getting to. So God doesn't just want you to do good, he wants you to constantly choose him. And it's, and it's constantly giving consent to this or that. And the good, what Dave would say is the good is just choosing God because you're kind of emulating what he would do. And the idea of liberty, right, it goes back to Adam and Eve in the garden. So you have the, the accuser or the tempter that's going to tell her, well, if you, if you do this, then you'll have such and such power. You'll be like God, this is like the liberty. You're given the liberty to choose, but God is constantly saying, like, no, you got to choose me. And when you're given that liberty, it seems like we always choose the apple every single time.

[F]

And then isn't that also part of Christian framework or theology that like, it's, it's the free will is what makes this special, that you've chosen God because you had that choice?

Well, it's like the love of for God means nothing if you can't choose it. Love means nothing. If you can't choose it, then it's slavery.

But if there is choose it. If you choose fealty to God by, by choice, then it's love.

[Clint Russell]

So, you know, it's almost like liberty is the temptation in this, in this equation here?

[Dave Smith]

No, I think the temptation would be doing something, doing the wrong thing with your liberty would be the temptation.

[Clint Russell]

You give the choice of the ability to do that.

[F]

I don't think the ability to is, is evil.

[Clint Russell]

I mean, it's not evil in itself, but it's, it's opening the door for that. And what I'm saying is that like, like I'm not going to call liberty evil bad. Like we shouldn't have that. That's crazy. What I'm saying is that you need both of these things, so you have to have the ability to choose and then you have to choose this other thing, God, because if you don't, then you end up in this spiral where we're at now.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, but see, the problem with this is that when you're extrapolating things from God down to libertarianism, libertarianism is not dealing in the realm of whether God is ruling over us or he's not. It's we're dealing in the realm of whether other men are ruling over us or they're not. So even in this, in this framework, when you say oh, but it's almost like the question is should you even have that choice? Should you even have the choice between doing good and doing bad? Because isn't liberty just giving you the option to do bad? But we would never get to be forced to do good. We'd get to be forced to do what some person with a lot of power over us has decided is right. And so you can point to examples of where people have had their liberty and chose the wrong thing, but I could also point to a lot of point examples of where the people who rule over us have had the power to make our choices for us and they've made the wrong choices. And so I still think it becomes a self defeating argument. It's if people are so bad at making the right choice with their liberty, how are they going to do at ruling over other people with power?

[Clint Russell]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

We're still dealing with human beings.

[F]

That's why, that's why I kept saying to you top that I think that these are complementary beliefs like, like, or, or philosophies. It's like Christianity I think is very important. But I also as someone who's more agnostic, I think that there's, there's lessons in all the religions that are kind of universal that I think are really beautiful and they, they tie together, they ultimately create people that might function better in a libertarian framework. But I think that the libertarian framework isn't addressing the religious aspects of society. And this, that's why I don't think it's fair to blame, you know, liberty itself for the downfall of America or any other nation. In fact, I think that quite the opposite, that, that it's the decrease of liberty and the accumulation of power at the top of the structure that has ultimately deteriorated the, the down below that, that's my view of things. But what do you think there's that.

[Clint Russell]

You know, see it makes a lot of sense but the symbology that's all surrounded by liberty really gives me pause. And I know this is where you jump off Dave, but when I'm looking around in, in current society or even old society, there's symbols everywhere and they're kind of telling you their agenda. You'll see pedophile symbols, you'll see this and that. But Dave, you want to take this from here?

[F]

Well, I don't necessarily want to go there yet, because I was trying to get to a point with this line of questioning with. With Dave. We talked earlier. You spoke earlier about how there is this flip side of the coin, Right. That there's. There's sort of a light and a darkness and people will sort of align themselves with God and then fight this. This evil. Right. And I would say that there is a law of opposites. Do you think that it is a fair thing to assume that if there is a God which is already where you stand from, then there would be something that is in opposition to him? And since he is, at least as far as you're willing to concede, which I think is fair, since he is a spirit, spiritual entity that has created this entire realm that we inhabit, then the force and opposition to him may also be of a spiritual nature as real as God.

[Dave Smith]

Sure. Well, I think one of the things that when you find God or if you, if. If you were always a believer or whatever you do, you all of a sudden have to look at the whole world in kind of a different way. And sometimes that doesn't exactly dawn on you right away, but a lot of times you realize that the gaps between what is scientific and what is spiritual are kind of artificial themselves. There's a lot of things that we just have words for that we. The words don't even really mean anything. It's a good word for instinct. Instinct is a good example of that. You know, if someone goes, how does a bug know to do that? How does the ant know to hand this off to the other? They go, oh, it's instinct. What does that mean really? You're like, I don't know. It's in them. You know what I mean? Like, it's.

[F]

It's man's kind of feeble attempt to grasp.

[Dave Smith]

Yes.

[F]

In my opinion, God's creation, I remember was the.

[Clint Russell]

The idea of ideas like, yeah, yeah, sure thing.

[Dave Smith]

Yes. Things like that, that we. So, because we give it a word and we just. And we kind of live and we.

[F]

Go, I understand that now.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, right. We kind of convince ourselves we understand that the way. The same way. I kind of really feel like I understand how my phone works. You know what I mean? But I don't. But I feel like it because I use it every day. But so, yeah, we give it a word like idea. And then when you live in our very reductionist kind of Secular post God world. It's easy to say, oh, no, we know the scientific answer for that. It's an idea. But just thinking about the word idea is a. Like, you could trip on mushrooms for three hours about that. What the fuck is an idea? You know? And, and so in a sense, I remember hearing this one debate once. I can't remember who it was, but it was like atheism verse, Christianity type debate. And the what? The guy who was arguing for Christianity started talking about evil spirits. And then I remember the atheist guy said something about how like evil spirits, there's just another assertion, there's something you can't prove. And then he goes, look, we all know that there are dark forces that people can fall into. Depression, this and that. But I just remember the word. And the guy didn't even jump on it. But I just remember the moment he said dark forces. And you're like, he literally just went, oh, this is so stupid, this evil.

[F]

He said the same shit.

[Dave Smith]

What are you, some rube? Anyway, there's dark force, you know, it's like, what the is that? What's the difference? What are we even arguing over? Is this just semantics? Whether you call it that or that, we're talking about the same thing. And like, so is there this opposite of the flip sign? I mean, yeah, there's hell, dude. Like, there's people live in living hells. We've all known people who put themselves into a living hell because they just do all the wrong things. And like, you know, like. And so like, anybody who's ever suffered or felt depressed or anything like that, you know, yeah, there's darkness in this world. Call that whatever you want to, but it's a force. It's not something we can tangibly measure scientifically. It exists. It's real. We know it's real because we experience it. Call that whatever you want to. Yeah, I'm, I'm growing more and more. Let me, I'll just say this real quickly at the end. I'm growing more and more comfortable with, like, as a, as a young atheist, I would have been more comfortable with like, dark forces rather than evil spirits. The older I get, the more I find something about the evil spirits more attractive. Because you're like, at least they're throwing themselves on the mercy of, like, we can't know what it is because it's this spiritual force outside of us. Whereas the, like, dark forces, atheist guides, like, you're just trying to pretend you know what this is, but it's just as much of a mystery to you.

[Top Lobster]

So that if that makes sense, we had interactions.

[F]

Go ahead.

Before, before you go, I got. I got to just say one quick thing. The reason I try not to go towards the good and evil path, particularly when it comes to analysis of human beings, is that I have known too many people that have participated in evil that I don't think are. And I think that if you, if you blanket, like, just label, oh, everybody that supports, you know, ex war evil, you know, like, because what they're in, what they're supporting is evil. But, like, I still recognize that there are forces that are acting upon them that ultimately could lead them astray. And should I. Should I condemn them as a human being forever because of that wrong decision? And I think that oftentimes that's a big, big, big mistake.

[Dave Smith]

Which, ironically, is a very Christian thing to say.

[Clint Russell]

I think it's a little bit of a quote, though, because you're alluding to, like, some of these people, let's say that they're choosing the Israel side. Like, sides. You'll see all kinds of people. They're like, oh, we got to finish off all those Palestinians. You're saying that maybe they have, like, monetary pressures or social pressures, or maybe it's just like, I don't know, maybe it's just something kind of evil on this.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. Top. And I don't. I really. I don't know how much you're, like, joking or how much you've actually fallen down the, like, fucking Jewish, like, hate train, but I don't know, dude. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and I lived in Manhattan my whole life. I know lots of, like, really good Jewish people, like, there. Lots of them probably support Israel just because they've kind of been propagandized to do it their whole life. And it's easy to say, oh, no, they're all evil if they're on the wrong side of this issue. But the truth is that, you know, like, all. Almost every one of those people who, you know, would. Would be like, no, that's no excuse or whatever. All the, like, like the popular, like, blame the Jews for everything crowd. I mean, all the people who they love. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a little bit older. It was only 20 years ago that every single one of them was telling you, if you didn't know that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that's because you are a homo and you hate America and blah, blah, blah. And they told it's like the, the amount of evil that I've seen every little nook and cranny in this country be propagandized into. Dude, people get fooled, man. And I don't. Now, that's not to say when you have a conflict like the one in Israel, it will also draw in some fucking sociopaths who are really rooting for blood.

[Clint Russell]

Let's not say the one in Israel, because. All right, I understand where you're getting. That's not, that's not at all what I was getting at the JQ or whatever we're talking about here. Let's, let's just say like trans and kids, there's people who full out support that they're not being monetarily supported. There's something going on. Or maybe even like your detractors in the lp, the ones that would ruin your life over an ideology, when you look at them in the face and you see their eyes and you go, is this like a person in there? Like, what the fuck is going on here?

[Top Lobster]

Even better.

[F]

What I was trying to get to is when you see this, because I think after 2020, nobody can be really in denial anymore. This overwhelming backdrop, especially to Western society in all sorts of things. If you want to talk about geopolitically, you have Zelensky trying to make Marina and Bramovic, who's an overt Satanist, who, who, who is an artist who takes pictures in mock baby corpses. He's trying to make her the ambassador of education to Ukraine. Within politics, there is an overt Luciferian element that pops its head up every once in a while. Overt in the sense, in comparison to what we would maybe have seen 20, 30 years ago. Certainly within the music industry, within American culture, there is an element of Luciferianism. You have this strange thing popping up over and over again. We talk about it ad nauseam on this show. When Hillary Clinton's emails leak and she's talking about, you know, where is the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh and the location of the buried Nephilim. There is this biblical and also Luciferian, which is redundant in a lot of ways.

[Clint Russell]

Element Biblical, there's like, you know, this spans across all ancient texts. They're talking about the same stuff.

[F]

But my question is words for it. Dave, when you, when you come to this realization, and I'm sure it's, it's not a light one to say that God exists, and I'm sure that since it came about in such a profound way with the birth of your child, you seemingly were already Kind of on the path there, but that was what solidified it. This is a, an important thing, right, because we're talking about the, the profound realization that there is a, a creator to this universe. And then you can see the elements of that creator's opposition echoed throughout American culture, Western society, Western politics. What do you. Let's just leave it at that. What do you make of that opposition and the, the fact that it's so fleshed out in such a kind of a cliche way.

[Clint Russell]

Like, you'll see Sam Smith now and he's, he's out there all gay with the gay devil outfit on. And, and that's real fun to look at and be like, h, this is like a show. This is a Satanism show, right? This is a word that's thrown around a lot. But then there's a lot of other things that are just kind of, I don't know, spooky, kind of give you a pause. Like, you really did that there.

[Dave Smith]

I, I will agree. There are spooky things that are, yeah, way more dominant in our culture than ever before. And the trans kid thing is probably right at the top of the list of that. But there's a lot. And then there's also just a lot of how crazy. There's almost this weird. You know, you kind of get in touch with this when you do stand up comedy. There's a weird thing where, like, it's an interesting, like, task to have to draw a laugh out of a room full of people. It's not, it's different than just saying something that they think is funny. Like, there's a way you could say something that people might think is funny, but it's not going to get like an audible laugh. And part of comedy is not just coming up with, like a funny joke. It's also like figuring out the language of how to present this in the way that will draw the biggest laugh. And then it's kind of like a trance like, dynamic where you have to like, kind of draw this thing out of people.

[F]

You're a witch, Dave Smith.

[Dave Smith]

Well, you know, there's some element to that. Look, there's something to, if you watch, there's certain comedians who it's, it's probably more clear to watch with. If you watch Nate Bargett see do stand up, or if you watch Shane Gillis do stand up, those guys are like, drawing you into their world. Like, every. The way they talk, the cadence of it in a way that they're not even intending on doing. I think to some degree is why they're so naturally good at stand up comedy, because they're just. They draw you into their world. They like put you in this trance or you're just. And it's, I think in the comedic world it's a beautiful thing, but there's the ability that the kind of ruling elite have had to put our society in a trance, you know, where it's like, okay, you're all 15 days to flatten the curve. Everyone repeat after me. And they all repeat. We're all in this together. We're all in this together. It's black power now. It's black lives matter now. That's what you must put. Yes, we will change our profile picture. Yes, it's Ukraine now. It's gays now. It's. And the amount of people they just follow, it's. It does seem so. This is different. This is not what society was like when I was a kid. And so something in that realm has exploded. And I do think they're almost all of the policies, whether you're talking about the COVID stuff, the transiting, the kids stuff, the wars, all of it, it's all so outrageously evil.

[Clint Russell]

Hey.

[Dave Smith]

That it's hard. It's hard to not wonder about some of these things.

[Clint Russell]

When you sacrifice a couple million babies to Moloch, do you think his power grows or does it just like, is this just something fun we do? Like. And I'm saying that like, fucking really seriously, I don't know, doing. When you have, when you have a war in Ukraine where you're now down to recruiting retarded people because they're just basically getting slaughtered there, what does that do?

[Dave Smith]

Well, in a sense, right here, there's a weird look. It goes back to my whole dark forces versus evil spirits thing, right? It's like, however you look at it, it's almost, it's almost like it's semantics because it's the same thing that's happening. So what does. Does Moloch get more power or something like that? Well, I don't know. But in a sense, the population at least has been totally conditioned to now accept that the legal precedent has now been set. It is that much easier to do evil shit again in the future. And so isn't that just another way of saying the same thing, that if you do this evil shit, then it will like grow the power of evil? Look the same way. It's like, you know how a fucking A lie leads to another lie leads to another lie? You know, like there's whether or not the. You Know what, what's actually going on in the spiritual realm. The, the fact is that yes, like, evil begets more evil and things grow exponentially.

[F]

And I think it also, it also adds to like this is what happens late stage empire. And you also, you end up with basically like a blight upon the nation's soul. And saying this as an individualist is a weird thing for me to do, but I do think it's real. I think like there is something to be said for, well, we have caused and created so much harm over the world. It's not just blowback in terms of terrorist attacks. It's also like blowback on our souls, on our spirit. It, it usually reflected in our economy.

[Dave Smith]

But it's the John Quincy Adams quote where he goes, if we go around the world looking for monsters to slay, we will become the dickatrice of the world, but we will lose our own soul. Y is like this motherfucker said this like hundreds of years ago. And you're like, God damn, how did you real. And it is just like, isn't that exactly what happened? And there is some weird collective sense to it, dude. I mean, it's crazy that the counterculture revolution, the whole real disintegration of traditional norms in this country came during the Vietnam War. It was like there's, there's a huge connection there. Like there's not.

[Clint Russell]

That is not a coincidence.

[F]

The counterculture is more. Is more America first. It's more liberty mind. It's more free speech oriented, it's more gun rights oriented. Like, I think that's the counterculture. That's what I feel like we are, we are on the early.

[Dave Smith]

I hope so.

[Clint Russell]

The early ripples today is like people that actually believe in God and Jesus. And I would say yes.

[F]

And you know why too? Because historically speaking, countercultures, as soon as they show any promise, are almost immediately co opted by some sort of intelligence agency and then steered for the worse of the culture. But I don't believe you can do that with God. I don't think you can do that with Christ. I don't think that can happen. I think it's about the only one that can't be co. Opted.

[Dave Smith]

I mean, I don't know, dude. Look at the evangelical churches in this country, dude. I mean, they've been about no bigger advocate.

[F]

What I would say then is a. What a true strict adherence to biblical Christianity would be.

[Dave Smith]

Now you're doing the no true Scotsman thing, dude. It's like just, just the. Look, I'm just saying that the idea that, oh, if you believe in Jesus now you're going to be immune to this whole thing. No, no, there's a lot more to it than that.

[F]

That's very valid. And so what I would like to say is when we're talking about this darkness versus evil spirits thing, I think it's very important to study and define what these evil spirits are, because they are evil spirits. You can't go at this half baked, right? There is clearly a concerted force within some massive influential force in America that believes in this, that is defined in it, that is worshiping Moloch, that, that knows the spirits and the demons. And these are in control of a lot more than I think people are comfortable saying. If they are that willing to define things and understand things, it is beholden upon us to define and understand those things. Because if not, we're half baked and we're going at things too soft. This is, we're, we're engaged in spiritual warfare. We look at these things. I say, what do you think about Gilgamesh and the resurrection chamber and Hillary Clinton does this. What do we think about the temples that are on Epstein's island and the fact that he's sacrificing kids and all we're talking about is 16 year olds giving them back rubs. Right. What do you think about the fact that Hollywood is inundating us with like really strange, esoteric, but occultly true subliminal messaging constantly. It's not even subliminal anymore. These are executing it to the T. But our understanding of these evil spirits is so loose, it's, it's cursory. We spend our times. That's why I, I'll joke around a lot. And it's a, it's a half hearted Joe. I say politics is gay. And the reason I say that is because I believe that the actual fight that we're meant to be fighting is a spiritual one. And until we can resolve that, the politics of man simply means nothing. Right? And if that truly is, you have this realization, God is real, well, that should maybe be, probably be. No, it should definitely be the most important real realization of any human being's life. Holy God is real. He's the creator of this universe. Whatever tenacity I was previously applying to the other study that I was interested in should now be applied to understanding this. And the more you understand it, the more you start to realize, yeah, there is dark spirits or dark forces and I need to understand this definitively. I think it's not by accident that the west has been stripped entirely of our understanding of, of the spiritual realm. It's, it's the most.

According to Tucker Carlson, it's been intentional.

And here we are.

And maybe it has been. But question for you guys. Do you think that that truth is synonymous or a very important aspect when it comes to God or religiosity or whatever?

Did you say truth?

Yes, truth.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[F]

I think that, that God, it's my contention. Jesus Christ is the embodiment of truth. God is truth. There is, there is something about dwelling within the spirit of truth that is constantly drawing you closer in a relationship with God. It's the spirit of truth.

[Clint Russell]

There's something about the word truth too, like, or just the idea of truth. And Dave knows with stand up comedy it's only funny because it's true. When you say it, it's true. And other people go oh, and like you tickle their inside or whatever and then it make, they make a mouth noise because you've, you've kind of manipulated them with this true thing.

[F]

And isn't it interesting that Western culture right now has stripped us of that relationship and removed the idea of, of an objective truth, that now there are multiple truths and this is a culturally significant phenomenon? Well, your truth is, is, is what's true to you. And it's valid. Your truth is valid. It's like, no, the, it's not. There is one truth. And, and I think that even that the removal of your relationship with truth and the fact that truth is, is subjective from one person to another is also by design. If Tucker Carlson thinks that we've been stripped of our understanding of the spiritual realm by design, I would say we've been stripped of our relationship with the truth by design.

I, I totally agree with that. But the, the reason I asked that is because it seems like the implications of top even wanting this conversation to begin with is that we aren't ultimately pointing our audience to God, to Jesus Christ and therefore the like. You're even your, your post about this said, I just want to know where this is going. Well, from my, from my vantage point, I'm going towards the truth. Whether, whether that be just because I don't know that Jesus Christ is king and that that is your truth and like that is where maybe that's where I end up. I don't know. But as far as I'm concerned, every single day I am dedicated to the truth. So as long as that's the, the path that I'm on, I think I'm, I'm leading my audience down a holistic, healthy path too. And many of them, many of my, in my audience are Christian already. And they agree with you guys more than they do me, probably.

I would, I would agree with that.

I think that, I think that's the, that's the value. So, like, your concerns about what Dave and I are doing, I think are misguided because I think that Dave and I are both headed towards the truth.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, I also, I also think that, you know, because of, because we kind of like entered the Libertarian Party and had the whole takeover of the thing and it was the plan of running for me for president and all that stuff. It's almost like sometimes people misunderstood what I tried to be very clear about the whole time, which is that there's almost like, there's this realm of like telling the truth and then there's this realm of like having some type of political strategy. And like, this is how we're going to gain power and this is how we're going to use the levers of power. And I was never, I was never playing in that game. The whole thing with the Libertarian, the whole thing, even when I was considering and planning on running for president, was that, oh, it'll just be like a big giant speaking tour. We'll throw like a big, huge giant truth telling speaking tour. I'm gonna tell the truth and I'll go tell louder. Like, like a lot of people hear me when I tell the truth. That was all it ever was. And I, you know, I posted the other day, I was, I just went on a long rant about this on my podcast, but I posted the other day this thing, a tweet that kind of like went viral where I said, thomas Massie is more America first than Donald Trump will ever be or something like that. Those type of short, like, provocative tweets always get a lot of fucking, you know, attention. But I just said it because I saw, I saw him telling the truth about Israel on Tucker show, and then I saw Trump lying on about Israel on some interview. And I was like, fucking Thomas Massie's more American. And there were so many people like Trump supporters who like, responded like, why would you say this? Like, why now, Dave? Why even take a. Massey's not running for president, but Trump is. So why would you say this when this could hurt Donald Trump? We need to get Biden out. And I'm almost like, still baffled by the question because you're just like, why would I say that? Oh, because it's true. I believe it.

[F]

That's a Lot of what I thought was really strange. It was like after he got charged, I saw a lot of people suddenly hop on this Trump 2024 thing, and all I could remember was the countless instances of, you know, him kissing the wall. Just this.

[Clint Russell]

There's.

[F]

There's a love relationship with him. Didn't they give him the. The crown? What was the. The name of the crown top? I don't know if you have it off the top of your head.

[Clint Russell]

It's like a.

[F]

If I could find it.

[Clint Russell]

Some kind of prince or some like that. Yeah, yeah.

[F]

And they're likening him to a messiah on a regular basis, like a part.

[Dave Smith]

Of the Golan Heights after him or something like that. Yeah, it's. It's. But look, man, like, people. So. So that is just to the point that Clint was making, is that it's like. I don't know. I feel like if you. If you're asking, like, where this is all going, it's almost like, look, man, like, all I've ever said about this shit is that I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell the truth. I'm gonna try to be, like. I'm gonna try to be a good person, like, personally, like, I'm gonna try to be a good father and a good husband and good friend, and then I'm gonna tell the truth to my audience. And that's, in a sense, like, that's an article of faith on my point. I just think that's what I'm supposed to be doing, and so I'll continue.

[F]

It feels right, too, for me. I'll just speak for myself like that. I. The reason I'm so passionate about what I'm doing is that I've never lived more closely to the truth than I have over the past three, four years since I started my show. Like it is. It's so gratifying. It tells me every day that what I'm doing is the right thing to be doing. And I think for that reason, I've become more successful in doing what I'm doing because I feel that so strongly. So this is why I don't have many doubts. I mean, obviously, I always have doubts in whether or not I have the truth. Correct. I'm always reassessing that. But I have very little doubt as to whether or not what I'm doing is good. I'm very confident that what I'm doing is good.

I want to ask you guys both something, and I'll try to put this as. As simply as possible. Why you guys have a. Are you gay? Do you own yourself? You guys both have this tenacity about you that is admirable. Right. It's. It's something to really behold to see what you guys have accomplished over your careers. Clint, I've been watching you lately and it's. It's cool to know you.

Well, thanks.

And what I am wondering is when you see these things that are compelling, right, we talk about this Luciferian backdrop in American culture, and we talk about the weird characters within the political realm that seem to be adhering to it, and we talk about the compelling case for God, especially after 2020, I think culture really turned a corner and, and we realize there's something more going on. I don't know if it was the free time that we had because of the lockdowns, doesn't matter. But there are all of the signs I think have been dialed all the way up to 10. What is it that. And maybe you are moving towards it. Maybe you're moving towards it at your own pace. This isn't accusatory in any way. So if it comes off that way, it's my inability to articulate it. What is it that keeps you from seeing this thing, this, this image of God, this potentiality for him existing, this apparatus that is in opposition to Him, Right. And, and it's. It's prevalence within, within our society. What is it that keeps you from moving towards that with the same tenacity that you've moved towards other things in your life? In other words, the reason I never got into politics is because when I was a much younger man, I saw this part first wasn't because I was smart. It was just. I didn't. I was too dumb for politics. Maybe that was it. I just looked at that and, and it came way later. It wasn't on my radar. It was this, this symbolism, this existence of this evil spirits, whatever the hell it is. And I moved towards that. And the more I moved towards it, the more it seemed like there was really something there. What is it that keeps you from moving towards this with the same tenacity that you've attacked other things?

You, you want to go first, Dave?

[Dave Smith]

Okay, well, I don't. I kind of reject the premise of the question. Like, I don't really think there's something that I'm like, there's any way that I'm not moving toward that. I mean, like. But I also just think of that as a very personal thing. I mean, like, if you, like, I don't know, tops, like, maybe been a fan of mine For a while. And Clint has known me for a while, like, before we were, like, knew.

[Clint Russell]

Each other, I think.

[Dave Smith]

But I'm saying before, like, I. Before I knew you guys, I mean, like, I was living, like, a really degenerate lifestyle, and I live, like, the most traditional lifestyle of anyone I know at this point. And I was.

[F]

Dude, I was listening to Skanks when you were still talking about, you know, picking up girls on the road. And so. I know.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, I mean, I would. You know, I was. I was. And a lot of that has had to do with finding God. But I also do think that. Well, number one, there's where God has given us this material realm, you know? And, like, our job, I think, is to live in it. And it's not as if I can, like, ask God to just stop the wars, and then he's going to do that because he's given us free will. And my only hope is to persuade other human beings to stop doing stuff that they don't have to do where, like, real human misery doesn't have to be caused. And I'm pretty good at persuading them of that. And every fiber of my being tells me that what I'm doing is my calling in life. So I don't think that I'm moving away from that. I think I'm, like, I'm. I've never felt so much in my life, like I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.

[F]

Can I rephrase it just a little bit, Dave? Because I. I think that I. Maybe I didn't articulate it the right way when I say that tenacity. I mean, like this. This sort of fingernail that scratches at a topic and goes, I need to learn more about that. Like, dude, you.

[Clint Russell]

Hey, Dave, what do you. What do you think about, like. So you. You were interviewed by Candace Owens, and she got in trouble for saying Christ is King. What. What do you think about that? Like, why is that significant? And why is that even a meme in today's culture? What does that mean?

[Dave Smith]

Well, I think. I think that Candace. Candace is very smart, and I think she knew what she was doing with that, and she knew it was the perfect way to kind of needle this. This thing where you, you know. Look, it's. It's. In a sense. I'm not saying these are exactly the same, but I'm just saying when All Lives Matter was the counter to Black Lives Matter, they knew what they were doing, but then they were also picking a phrase that if you had any Problem with you're like, well, what are you saying? Are you saying all lives don't matter? And there was kind of like, there's something witty and, and intelligent about like, setting it up that way. So I thought that Candace was kind of needling, you know what I mean, like the Zionists at her network. But she was also kind of sending this message that it's like, well, first of all, what are you going to do? Have an objection to kind of a foundational claim of, of Christianity or. And also at the same time kind of telling people that it's like, hey, Christian Americans, this is what our priority should be, not whatever this other agenda is that has nothing to do with Christ being king.

[Clint Russell]

So doesn't it make you pause, like for a second? Because the people that lost their shit over Christ as king were Talmudic Jews. And in that book they think that Jesus Christ is boiling and piss and excrement. This is what it says.

[F]

And I think what's worth saying on that topic is that for the past, I don't know how long, guys, four decades, something like that, you've. It's been free range on Christianity. You've been allowed to dunk on Jesus on stage with a microphone in your hand to the tune of, you know, thousands and thousands of people.

[Dave Smith]

No question abouting it, right?

[F]

And then all of a sudden there is this moment that we're experiencing right now where Christians are sort of taking, let's just call the Christ is king thing something that resembles a hard stance, you know, something that resembles a backbone for the first time in a long time. And it's not received well.

It's also been open season on white people. I don't think that that means that that being white is, Is now what we should all aspire to be.

I aspire constantly.

I'm just making the point. Just.

[Dave Smith]

I just want to be clear. Clint doesn't speak for both of us. I think you guys should aspire to be white, and I believe spiritually white. I believe one day God will and you guys will get there.

[F]

But, but to go back to Tom's.

[Clint Russell]

Earlier question, Jews aren't white. Dave talking about. To go.

[F]

To go back to Tom's earlier point, I think that the point that you're driving at, and I actually agree with it, is that the reason that there was such a not. Not. I won't go the tactical angle of Dave describing why Candace did what she did, but rather why did that have a moment in the Zeitgeist? Why did the, the people. People react to it, it's because not worried about God has been suppressed. I mean, because Christianity has been suppressed. Because the people that are, are now finding religion for the first time are, Are recognizing that that's the current paradigm in which they exist and they are rebelling against it. So for her to say so in a declaratory fashion against her boss's will was a galvanizing moment for that movement. I think that's, that's the answer as to why it had such a big effect.

[Dave Smith]

Well, can I to. To tops point that I think you didn't exactly finish, but you were saying like, well, look, a lot of the people getting upset about this are Orthodox Jews who believe in, you know, in the Talmud it says this or that.

[Clint Russell]

About Jesus or not just Orthodox Jews, but Zionist Jews, the same ones that are fulfilling end time prophecy and about to start World War III for no reason. I mean, God, for when they, when they try to build their third temple on the Alaska mosque. I mean, you're going to be talking about that on part of the problem, but this is all biblical stuff. So I'm just looking at and saying like, hey, what the fuck, guys? Like, nobody is putting these pieces here together as well, because I don't know.

[Dave Smith]

I mean, you know, I don't know. The problem with putting pieces together, it's the problem with, with seeing patterns as, as people like to say, what is it they know?

[F]

Let's not forget that during the beginning of COVID if you were seeing patterns and you were saying that things, things don't add up, this is very much. You were unvaccinated. It was an epidemic of the unvaccinated.

[Dave Smith]

No, but my, my argument isn't that like, patterns are never indicative of anything. And I think I did see the patterns pretty well with COVID and I have a nice pure blood family.

[Clint Russell]

But Dave, let me just say thank you. I texted you, I messaged you before you did the Cuomo debate. And I was like, hey, like, obviously this person will everyone, but I'm like, fucking kill this guy. And I think he did it. Thank you.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, yeah. Well, I think it's. It went good.

[F]

You know what I, what I loved is that on your next episode of Part of the Problem, you use the word cathartic, which I don't think I've ever heard you use. And that's what I texted you after I said, this is very.

Dude, I don't know how. Dave, I don't know how you managed to not let Loose a few, Shut the up during that.

[Dave Smith]

I mean, I was already, I wasn't going to lose anyone. I was already just.

[Clint Russell]

It was already going.

[F]

You were in the zone. It was, it was, it was. Dude, it was good to watch.

[Dave Smith]

You know, they gave me three hours with them, so it was like I had more than enough time. I wouldn't. You know what I mean? It's not like they gave me a 30 minute debate or something. Anyway, I want to make this point, but thank you guys, I appreciate it. But the problem with like, and this is what a lot of people say about the Jews, right, is like we're just noticing patterns and all of this. The problem with that is that when you already start with what the pattern is supposed to be at the end, you can create all types of patterns. And by. This is. It's the same thing the radical feminists are doing when they say, oh, look at the Fortune 500 CEOs. They're all men. See, we're noticing a pattern. It's like, yeah, but you're just looking at this and then you're ignoring like that that's a tiny substrata of men. And there's all these other men who completely contradict that. And so I just say that, look, there's lots of stuff in Chris, in Christians books, in the Jews books and Muslims books that you don't actually really live by. And most Christians don't really, even really, really devout Christians. You can find passages in the New Testament where you're kind of like, yeah, no one was really thinking about that things in the Old Testament you can find all this stuff. No one's really thinking about the rules of how you're allowed to beat your slave that's just kind of been rejected.

[F]

I didn't think there was rules to that. I thought you could just beat your slave. But to point, no, there are rules.

[Dave Smith]

There's rules.

[F]

It's like with a closed fist only.

[Dave Smith]

And no, it's like it's about how long he falls down and how before. How long he gets up. Like if he doesn't get up for a full day or something like that. It's like, but, but anyway, so I'm just saying that, look, a lot of these guys, I do think sometimes there's like the simpler answer can actually be correct. A lot of these guys, there is an overwhelming connection to Israel and they have been told for a long time that they're literally. You guys were, you know, we were almost exterminated. They would do it in a second. Again, the Only reason that's not happening is because this government exists and there. And your entire identity is tied to like making sure this thing exists. And they will snap that. They weren't angry at Candace just for tweeting Christ the King. They were angry at Candace for fucking really exposing how evil the war was. And she was pretty unrelenting in that. And that's what, and then doing that and making it. There was, there was like a danger in her from their perspective to her doing that. It was like, oh, you're rally. Look, the whole, like the whole Israel supporting dynamic kind of relies on the fact that, ok, so you have this group of very influential Jews who all support Israel, but they know they're only a tiny, tiny little percentage of the population, you know, and like, and I don't mean 2% like Jews, they're way smaller than 2%. They're 2% of Jews. You know what I mean? There's like a tiny, tiny little group of people. And then they have to have all of these Christians on board with them. They have to have the evangelical church saying, you know what I mean? Like, or the evangelical churches saying that, you know, you have to support Israel no matter what. They have to have all your Fox News and Daily Wire watching uncles being like, yeah, being pro Israel is part of our conservative identity. They have to have that because if they don't, they know they can't support this project. And that in their mind means they're going to be genocided. And so then when someone comes out and is trying to undermine support for Israel and then using Christian like calls to action, in a sense from their perspective, they go, oh my God, that's way more appealing than what we're selling. Yeah, we're talking to 99 Christians here. You know what I mean? Like, so there's. I, I think that in itself explains why there was such a snapback against her. And don't get me wrong, I'm firmly on Candace's side of this argument, but I'm just saying, like, I think that's how I understand the dynamic more.

[F]

Okay, can I. I never got to answer your question, David. So real quick, the, the reason I haven't pursued Christianity with as, as much.

Can I just clarify it and then you could pick it up right there. The, what I mean to say is the tenacity with which you, you dissect things, especially in this particular case, politics or, or even, you know, the COVID epidemic. That, that tendency to, to keep digging and keep digging and learn more and learn more. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Yeah. No, I, I think that the answer is that I have a lot of doubt. You know, I, I, I have a, a real hard time with leaps of faith. I have a hard time with reading ancient documents and, and pretending that this is actually God's words in any form or fashion. Like, that's all very challenging for me. And I think also what I've seen in, in the Christian community has put me off to a large extent. Like, I'll say some things that are really unpopular even amongst you guys. I think, you know, I see the humanity in the, even the libertarians that I disagree with when it comes to transitioning children. Like, I see that they are concerned about the fact that so many of them are going to kill themselves. So they, they're like, do whatever we have to do. You know, even if that includes puberty blockers or whatever else. It's like, okay, well, look, I think.

[Dave Smith]

Well, like, if you buy into the propaganda that that is a little girl trapped in a little boy's body.

[F]

Right.

[Dave Smith]

You know what I'm saying? Like, if you, requires a leap of faith, but if you, but I'm just saying if you buy into the first fundamental lie, you can see where, like, a good person would come to this, like, horrific outcome.

[F]

Right. But a good person who's not done the research to learn that there's a.

[Clint Russell]

Sure.

[Dave Smith]

But that doesn't take away from Clint's point that he's not saying they're not wrong.

[F]

He's just saying explicitly, I think that they are wrong. I'm just saying that I see the humanity in it. I can still see a, a good spirited analysis that leads you to that. Like, I don't think Chase Oliver is evil. Maybe he is, I don't know. But, like, my assessment of these people, my assessment of my opposition politically and basically always is like, I see the humanity in the Russians. I see my, the humanity in Ukrainians and the Palestinians and the Israelis. Like, I don't like it when we get into this tribal worldview of, like, there is only one path and anybody in opposition to me is ultimately evil. I just don't think it's true.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, I really don't. Like, you're also, you know, Daryl Cooper, who really is just like, one of the fucking best, like, voices in the country on the Israel, Palestine conflict. Like, the guy is just incredible. But I do. He had some post about this that I really loved where he was saying, like, listen, man, like, the group of people who are demonizing all Palestinians and how they fought. You know what I mean? Like, they're all basically Hamas supporters. They had elections. There's no innocent Palestinians. And the people who are demonizing all Jews and saying, oh, it's. This is all like a Jewish plot or whatever it is. It's like, you guys are exactly the same. You're the exact same person. You're just to, like, win points with your little. In group. You're willing to, like, demonize an entire group of people, which is like, you're just playing into the oldest thing in the book, which is like, I'm not saying you're a fucking Nazi or you're responsible for a genocide, but that impulse that you're like, having, that is the impulse that like, gives cover to shit like that happening, is pretending one group of people have, like, no humanity at all and casting, like, this wide brush with all of that. It's very. It's the very nature a lot of those. Now, that doesn't mean that a lot of those people aren't caught up in something pretty evil.

[F]

Like, how do you stand in opposition to it, if any opposition to it looks like hatred? Like, I can call these people lost retards for wanting to transition children, but that doesn't mean that I want to rally the troops and start marching on cities to go. And you know what I mean? Like, they are uneducated, they lack information, and by that notion, they're incredibly dangerous. Well, it really doesn't matter. Does it matter if they're evil or not? If the thing that they're executing for lack of information is evil itself? Well, look, transitioning children is evil.

[Dave Smith]

Yes. 100. But there's, you know, it's like the. The red pill, blue pill distinction, I think, is really more what captures it like they're under a trance. They're under a spell of some sort, you know.

[F]

Right. And if there are no amount of words that await them up.

[Dave Smith]

Well, I don't know. I don't know exactly what the answer is, you know, but that's just not true.

[F]

Because there are people that are reachable.

[Dave Smith]

Well, there are certainly people who are.

[F]

Right. But we're running into the situation where it's like the amount of people that you can reach is being far exceeded by the degradation of the country. The country is spiraling, and I'm not advocating for anything. I'm just saying the facts. The facts are we seemingly cannot reach enough people to repair the damage that's happening to our culture. Our culture is spiraling down.

[Dave Smith]

We.

[F]

At a faster pace than we can repair.

[Dave Smith]

It, so what's the answer? Stop. You know, you got to keep trying.

[Clint Russell]

Can I swing the conversation real quick? And then I'm going to respect your time, Dave, and let you get out of here. But I think it's a good jumping off point here. I, I, I listened to Naib Bueli speak with Tucker Carlson, and this is what he's espousing are obviously not libertarian ideals, but they're quite, quite effective. And I think that that might be where this conversation is headed in. Did you see that episode?

[Dave Smith]

No, I, I haven't. Is that a new one?

[Clint Russell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Smith]

No, I don't know. I don't know. If you show me a picture of the guy, maybe I would know who you're talking about, but I'm not.

[F]

Oh, it's the, the president of El Salvador. He said.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, no, I did. I, I saw like a couple clips of, of it.

[F]

And while he's pulling that up, I think somebody in the chat said it, it is clear that the point that we're at right now as a culture, I'm once again not posing a solution. Maybe there are, there is one. But it is very clear that tolerance is what's gotten us to this point. In other words, this idea of, like, live and let live, as long as you're not being hurt by another person seemingly is, is virtuous until you realize that the immediate threat of violence isn't the only threat to a culture. And maybe in fact, subversive ideologies are much more of a threat to a culture.

Well, here's, here's the, and now we're.

Sitting in a place that, that kind of ideology has gotten us here.

Here's the important thing to note about that, though, when, when I hear people on the right talking about, you know, basically getting rid of tolerance and cracking down on all this, you guys need to realize you have no power, you have no political power whatsoever to actually implement what you're talking about. So every single ounce of power that you give the state at this point is going to be used to just crush you. So this is the reason I'm in the persuasion game. So by the way, can I aggressively.

[Dave Smith]

As I am, I'd say I, like, I agree with what Clint said, but I actually, I do, at least to a large percent, say I, like 90% reject your premise about like 10% of it. I think is, is maybe true. But I think that when people say, which is, this is a very popular kind of like, view on the, the, the hard right that's critical of libertarians, that tolerance really is what allowed us to get to this place. But I don't really think that's 100% true. In fact, that wasn't even really the problem. I mean, first of all, the spirit certainly was not tolerance, not in any like, classical liberal sense of the word or something like that. It wasn't that the message was ever, we must just be tolerant of other people's choices. It was full blown acceptance wrapped in, like, civil rights, like neo civil rights language. It was, victim groups are owed something by the oppressors, and the oppressors are anyone succeeding. It was like a demonization of the normal, the successful, the traditional. And, and this, this justification that you owed something to what they are, marginalized groups or whatever the hell they. They.

[Clint Russell]

But that always starts off, that always starts off as this plea for tolerance. I remember as a kid.

[Dave Smith]

That's it.

[F]

Yeah. Plea for acceptance. Yep.

[Clint Russell]

Yeah. She's like, we're. We're marching against gay marriage. And I was like, maybe you shouldn't do that. This is not a good idea. They said, no, no, they'll come for the kids. You don't understand. And I was like, yeah, and now here we are. And I'm like, I probably would have marched with you before if I would have known what this was going to do. I got to be in New York tomorrow during Gay Pride month with my kids. I'm like, I'm not looking forward to this, you know, where we are.

[F]

To Clint's point where he says we don't have any power politically. I'm not talking about politically because I rarely do. I'm talking about in your own life to not tolerate you.

[Top Lobster]

You are.

[Dave Smith]

But let me just. I just want to, like, continue on the point for a second because I do think it's somewhat of a fallacy to say that, like, this thing happened before. This thing. Thing number two is a problem, therefore thing number one caused thing number two. Like, the fact that that followed doesn't necessarily mean it was destined to follow. Or like, at least that doesn't prove the point that it was. It's.

[F]

No, but sometimes it does.

[Dave Smith]

No, no, no. Yeah, but sometimes it does. Doesn't prove the point. Sometimes it doesn't. I'm saying that, like, the problem came in when we had, like, it wasn't just preaching tolerance and it became this other thing that was that. And then the real problem came in when the entire power structure got behind it. I mean, like, that's really what happened here is that it started in the universities, then the entire corporate media, the entire political class and Hollywood and all of them started pushing all of this stuff. And it's not self evident to me that the lesson there is, is that we never should have allowed people to be free or we never should have had tolerance of other people. Like maybe, I mean we should have.

[F]

Never treated slaves because eventually they would demand reparations.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, yeah, like there's, that's not exactly clear. But the other thing I was, is the reason I only said 90% is because I do think there is like a 10% real truth to the point that I actually I, I believe. Okay. There was one time Gene Epstein said on the Tom woods show, this was way back in the day where Tom asked him, and I love Gene Epstein by the way. I've just come to disagree with him on this point where Tom asked him if there was a secondary value to libertarianism aside from non aggression, what would the next value be? And he said tolerance. And he had a good argument for it. He was like, look, if people are going to be free, we have to tolerate that people live different lifestyles. I've kind of come to feel more and more that intolerance is the complementary like view because you just, if you're not going to have the government regulating destructive, degenerate behavior, then you have to have other forces to do that. And so I do think that there are certain things that shouldn't be tolerated. And I don't mean by that not allowed or using violence to, to shut it down. But I do think that yes there is 10% of that is true, that it is crazy that we ever tolerated things moving anywhere near the direction. I don't know exactly what the point should have been. Like I don't know if gay marriage is the point where we should have like had a problem with that.

[Top Lobster]

I don't see.

[F]

There seems to be a force.

[Dave Smith]

It's before trans and kids, that's for sure.

[F]

But there does seem to be a force that will always push. There is no stopping it. Right. That progress seems to be. Yeah, it will always be pushing. So a line has to be drawn somewhere. And what will happen is when that line is drawn, you will have to fight at that line in perpetuity.

Yeah, the revolution is continuous.

[Clint Russell]

It's pushing. It's always going to use things like the non aggression principle to like just subvert and push further.

[Dave Smith]

Well, what do you mean by that? When do they use the non aggression principle?

[F]

He's saying he's Saying that. That it drops our defenses because until they're actually actively aggressing upon us, we won't defend ourselves.

[Clint Russell]

I understand the argument gone too far.

[F]

Yeah. And he's saying that at that point, it's too late. I. Look, the reason I. David, I understand that you were not talking politics. The reason I took it to the politics level is because exactly what David is describing, the entire power structure decided to. To propagate this narrative and to push it into every aspect of our lives without, like. The reason that you need politics and power to fight this to some extent is because power and politics is the reason that this is transpiring. It's not just because gay people were allowed to get married.

What I would argue all of.

All of Hollywood is telling you to do it because the entire public education system is telling these kids that this is the way to live. And if you're not living this way, you're a bigot. And ultimately you probably ought to be gay or trans because otherwise you're part of the oppressor class. This is a sick ideology that's pervasive across the board on all levels. So you've got to fight it on all levels.

[Clint Russell]

These kind of things don't work on a populace that's not willing to accept it. And that's kind of like, correct. What I wanted to talk about here today, that idea of tolerance, the idea of God, if, if we got this, Owen Benjamin would say, you get the government that you deserve. And he's kind of right. So that we're complaining about. It's.

[F]

If we had a culture that we could inject God back into, then it doesn't matter what corporation is knocking at your door trying to serve you up Satanism, it would stop at the door.

I don't agree with that.

[Dave Smith]

First off, I just, like, I just completely reject that. And I think it might sound nice as a slogan, but I think it's actually pretty vapid. And like, I don't know what. I don't think the North Koreans deserve their government. I don't think, like, Gaza deserves to be ruled by Egypt. I mean, by Israel. I just. I don't think any of that is exactly right. I do think that it's like, yes, maybe a more accurate thing would be something like you get the government that you're either powerless to prevent or too complicit to be willing to give your life to try to fight and stop. I mean, it's like the truth of the matter is actually doesn't fit onto a neat little Slogan like that.

[Clint Russell]

We're not saying that. That the North Korean people deserve this government there, but you get the government you deserve. But they're generations into this. What I'm saying is that we started off with freedom, and now we are.

[F]

Here, and we still collected. No matter. No matter the starting point, it's still good. So.

[Clint Russell]

But.

[Dave Smith]

But that's the same thing you could say about the North Koreans. I mean, they started off with the ability to create their own. Their own country that they wanted. They maintained the northern part of that country after the Korean War. And this is what they're here, lost. Right. And I don't think that, like, I don't think it's at all true to say that the people got what they deserve.

[Clint Russell]

But I don't know. I don't know the history of this country. I've read Michael Malice's book. But how did you get there? I mean, with America, we could paint a pretty clear picture on how we got here.

[Dave Smith]

Well, they embrace communism.

[F]

I mean, the point is, I have advocated. I've voted against all of it. I have advocated. I've been outspoken. I've spoken to millions of people about how I'm opposed to all of this. I've done everything in my individual power to fight this. So how could I possibly be held to account for the same people that have voted for all of this?

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, and the point is that we're. The point is that we're trying to.

[F]

You are, though, because I live here.

[Dave Smith]

We're trying to move the needle. You know what I mean? And that's like the. That's a huge component to all of this. And I also do. Which I know, I'm sure you guys have heard me say before, but I just. I think that, like, you know, governments rely on propaganda. They rely on force as well, but they also heavily rely on propaganda. Like they have to cast a spell on their people. And we're at this unique time in history when we have a fighting shot to fight back against that propaganda and to try to wake more people up, just as all four of us have been woken up to a lot of shit that we were asleep to at a certain point. And, you know, there's. It's pretty wild, you know, like you guys were kind of saying before, like, some of the stuff, like me and Clint have been able to do, it's kind of like, yeah, this is. This is a little bit nutty. Like, it's crazy that you can actually get on such big platforms and do. And look, it's not like look, it's just the sum total of everything I've done has, you know, on the national scale, move the needle the tiniest little bit. But it's not like I haven't gotten a little crack at it. You know what I mean? And so it's like, oh, okay, if I could do that already, let's keep doing that. Let's try to get as many people. What I able to do that bring.

[F]

It back to then is what you just said. This idea that there's this propaganda machine that's aimed at us and we're being propagandized, it's inherently Luciferian. It's very obvious in 2024 that the propaganda machine is shoving Satanism. It's multi ways down our throat. I don't think you can, I just want to say I don't think you can fight back against the machine machine that is inherently satanic without God. I don't think you could do it.

[Top Lobster]

As, as just men.

[F]

You need to arm yourself in a different way.

[Clint Russell]

This is what we're, this is what we're coming to the realization of as we like study and interview more people and do more of this. But I'm, I'm incredibly proud of like what I've seen Clint do from being, you know, a fat woman avatar to where he's at now opening up to Trump.

[F]

No fat male avatar.

[Clint Russell]

That was a but. And I mean along from working side by side with you, Dave, who you've been instrumental in almost everything that I've done in my just ability to get out of New York and, and basically what I'm doing with my family now. And I, I'm, I don't know what the point of this conversation was, whether it was, it was not really to change your mind. It's to like, you guys are moving the needle and I think you're moving it way more than just a little tinch. It's been amazing to watch. I just, you know, I'm, I'm. Thank you for your time for coming here because I wanted to see if I can maybe add a little wrinkle to your game. If, like, if you're not thinking about this, maybe I can convince you that like, hey, like there, there's also this over here. You know what I mean? And like, just put that in the back of your mind going forward with all the, all the things that you're doing and that you're going to do. And. Yeah, I don't know, I just hope, I hope you guys do pull it, pull this country together. In some form or fashion, because really, what the else are we.

[F]

And just know, Clint, that every single time some person with an insane level of influence mentions the nephilim, I think about you immediately. I think about you. I'm like, what is Clint thinking? What does his face look like?

Let me, Let me just say too, you know, you guys have had an influence on me, and I do think that I, I, I think more about good and evil than I ever have before. I think largely because Clint.

[Clint Russell]

Clint was an atheist. And then you got to the point where you're doing mushrooms and saying, like, and, and listening to gospel music.

[F]

Yeah, I was.

[Clint Russell]

I've had a great influence on you, Clint.

[F]

Yes, it's not bad. But, but the, the point is that, like, I, I think more in terms of good and evil primarily because I think we are. Are dealing with more evil action. Now, whether or not it's evil on a spiritual, demonic level, I can't say definitively, but it is certainly true that there are. There are billions of people on earth that are, are willingly or unwillingly participating in evil. So I have to, I have to have that in my equation of analysis.

[Dave Smith]

I have to.

[F]

But at the same time, the reason that I push back against these descriptions is because I genuinely love people. And I think that so many of these people that are participating in evil are still reachable. And if I didn't believe that, then it'd kind of be fruitless to be doing what I'm doing. And in fact, I know it to be true that there are millions of people that are capable of being influenced and persuaded out of evil action. So, like, I think that's the reason I'm so content in, in the path that I'm on is that I feel as if I am walking with God or with the truth or whatever, whatever you want to describe it as. And I, and I see that in Dave, and I think that's, that's part of the reason that he's so contented. Not just the success and not just the reach that he's, that he's getting and the heights that he's now, you know, approaching. It's like, I think this is all indicative of, you know, being on the, the side of righteousness now. Maybe that's, you know, narcissistic or egotistical to feel that way, but I feel that way, so I'm just gonna say it. That's the truth. That's how I feel.

[Dave Smith]

Well, yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks you guys, for, for having us. And I enjoyed this very much and I do think that, you know, there's something I've. I've been saying this for a long time and. And just again, kind of in my. The, the older I get, the more I do look at that point. Like that it's kind of semantics, the dark forces, dark evil spirits thing, that it's all kind of like we look, even from the strictest atheistic point of view, like, what we've really seen, we've run an experiment in kind of like removing God from society and that it leads to a lot of evil. And so I do think that's like, a huge component to it. I also hope, in the same sense that that Top said that he hopes he kind of gave us a nudge, and that's something to think about. I also hope that, like, I gave you a similar type of nudge of that, like, there are a few, at least from people who are kind of like ex libertarians. What I just see from a lot of them in their rejection of libertarianism are these kind of, like, fundamental flaws that it's just like, making logical mistakes where literally none of this spiritual stuff, like, conflicts with libertarianism at all. And, like, just like the points I was making about, like, you know, the people who show up for the LP convention aren't a statement on what laissez faire free markets would look like in the world and stuff like that. So I, you know, I enjoy these conversations and thanks for having me.

[Clint Russell]

Absolutely. Dave, thank you for taking the time. Clint. I won't be there tomorrow, but we have Tower Gang 911 show up. Dave Smith will be there. And.

[Dave Smith]

The rest of this week, let's not go crazy.

[Clint Russell]

The rest of this week will be off a nephilim death squad. So we'll catch you next week. And peace out, guys. Thank you.

[Dave Smith]

The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is.

[E]

A oblong box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real.

[Clint Russell]

You can persuade them that what they.

[Dave Smith]

See with their eyes is what there.

[E]

Is to see, because they'll laugh in the face of an explanation that portrays.

[F]

The bigger picture of what's happening.

[Clint Russell]

And they have.