Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview on "A People's Church: Medieval Italy and Christianity, 1050-1300"
Guests: Associate Professor Neslihan Şenocak (co-editor), Professor Maureen Miller (contributor)
Host: Lauren Fonto
Date: February 7, 2026
Book Discussed: A People's Church: Medieval Italy and Christianity, 1050-1300 (Cornell UP, 2023) – edited by A. Paravicini Bagliani & N. Şenocak

Overview

This episode delves into the unique religious landscape of medieval Italy (1050–1300), as explored in the newly published edited volume, A People’s Church. Hosts Neslihan Şenocak and Maureen Miller examine how ordinary people, diverse ecclesiastical institutions, urbanization, and the shifting balance between lay and religious authority shaped Christianity across Italy. The discussion features chapter highlights—from urban and monastic life to church governance, communal politics, and the role of confraternities—offering insights for both newcomers to the field and seasoned medievalists.

Guest Introductions & Academic Backgrounds

[00:45 – 03:15]

• Neslihan Şenocak: Began undergraduate studies in industrial engineering in Turkey, pivoted to medieval history for MA and PhD, taught in Cyprus and Colombia. Focus: religious history of the Middle Ages.
• Maureen Miller: Grew up in Washington, D.C., originally aimed to be a journalist. History drew her in—especially medieval history under influential mentors. Taught at Hamilton, George Mason, now at UC Berkeley.

Şenocak: "I specialize in religious history of the Middle Ages... teaching medieval history at Colombia." (01:15)
Miller: "A journalist... That didn’t work out... I started the languages and everything, everything late, since journalism doesn’t require Latin." (01:45)

What Makes Medieval Italy Unique?

[03:35 – 06:45]

• Urbanization & Papacy: Italy’s unique, dense array of cities (urbanization), and the presence of Rome make it a religious and social innovator.
• City States & Lay Involvement: High civic participation fostered lay religious activism and autonomy.
• Innovative Religious Movements: Orders like the Franciscans and Humiliati demonstrate new structures—e.g., “third order” laypeople.
• Richness of Archives: Italy's decentralized record-keeping offers a treasure trove for grassroots historical research.

Miller: "What’s really unique...is the rich carpet of cities all over Italy..." (04:02)
Şenocak: "They do demand the best from their clergy...They are very autonomous..." (04:45) Miller: "Italy is the best place to try to write that [history from the ground up]..." (06:45)

Norman Conquest & Church Latinization

[08:06 – 11:57]

• Normans in Southern Italy: Slow, gradual takeover. Brought French customs of lay donations, establishing a landed, wealthy Latin Church.
• Transition from Byzantine to Latin Influence: Greek Christianity persisted; Latinization advanced mainly through noble support and papal-Norman alliances.
• Papal Power: Expanded slowly; full influence was only realized much later (13th–14th c.).

Miller: "[The Normans] bring French customs...making lay people making donations to various religious institutions." (08:20)
Miller: "Greek Christianity doesn’t die away...it continued to exist." (11:40)

Bishops, Communes, & Governance – Case of Florence

[12:35 – 16:33]

• Bishops as Civic Leaders: Bishops filled government roles post-Rome, controlled poor relief and city management.
• Communal Governance Emerges: Investiture Contest (church vs. empire) catalyzed communes, initially collaborating with bishops.
• Power Shift: Over time, commune militarily and politically overtook the bishop’s influence—common pattern in Italian cities.

Miller: "...collaboration becomes the triumph of the Commune, mainly because the Commune was able to organize its military..." (15:30)

The Pieve Institution

[17:25 – 20:41]

• Definition and Structure: The Pieve—large central parish church, literally and figuratively at the heart of a rural territory.
• Unique Functions: Center for baptism, clerical education, social services, with smaller churches dependent on it.
• Judicial and Administrative Roles: The Pievano (head priest) managed relations with both bishop and dependent churches, streamlining diocesan governance.
• Comparative Uniqueness: Similar structures elsewhere, but more prominent and systematized in Italy.

Şenocak: "They are parish churches...But PIEVE generally is a bigger church...like sort of a mini diocese." (17:35)

Wealth, Land, and Monasteries

[21:20 – 25:56]

• Benedictine Foundations: Benedict created the archetypal monastic model; monastic patrimonies grew via lay donations for prayers for souls.
• Economic Roles: Monasteries amassed land, required sophisticated administration, became economic as well as spiritual centers.
• Aristocratic Connections: Monasteries’ fortunes intertwined with local elites eager to secure spiritual benefits.

Miller: "Lay people tended to value...the prayers of monks, since they could devote themselves full time to prayer..." (23:10)
Miller: "...they become then concentrations of both coin and food resources, and therefore they begin to play a huge role in the economy." (24:50)

Monastic Reform Movements: Cluniacs & Cistercians

[26:38 – 30:57]

• Import of Northern Reforms: Cluniac and Cistercian reforms arrived via charismatic leaders and lay enthusiasm for purer religious life.
• Lay-Monastic Ties: Lay “familiars” supported monasteries, participated in liturgies, blurred lay/monastic boundaries.
• Geographic Patterns: Cistercians concentrated in the north, Cluniacs and their affiliates in the south.

Miller: "...Cava is a Cluniac foundation...CAVA, like Cluny, becomes a huge network of affiliated monasteries..." (28:00)
Şenocak: "With the Cistercians, there is a group of lay people around them that support the monastery...familia monastica..." (29:30)

Origins and Purpose of the Book

[30:57 & 31:24 – 34:16]

• Genesis: Emerged from collegial discussions at Villa I Tatti, Florence.
• Aim: To address lack of Anglophone resources on Italian religious history by compiling accessible, expert essays—including translations by leading Italian scholars.

Şenocak: "...medieval Italian religious history is lesser known in the USA...so we make a book together in the English language...and incorporate especially the work of Italian scholars..." (31:45)

Confraternities: Lay Religious Associations

[34:16 – 38:21; 38:45 – 41:13]

• Role and Nature: Voluntary lay (and sometimes clerical or mixed) associations for collective prayer, charity, mutual aid, funerary support, and sociability.
• Prevalence: Especially numerous and well-documented in Italy.
• Papacy’s Attitude: Generally indifferent or positive; confraternities were rarely seen as threats to ecclesiastical authority and often supported by civic governments.
• Variations: Included penitential (flagellant) confraternities—seen as more radical but still not persecuted by Church authorities.

Şenocak: "They are not permanent structures anyway. They're just groups of people who come together once a month and do prayers together..." (38:45)
Şenocak: "Actually, confraternities are most likely to be under the aegis of the communal governments..." (39:15)

Papal Authority, Anti-Popes, and Schism

[41:13 – 48:16]

• Medieval Papal Power: Early papacy was institutionally weak; dominated at times by Roman aristocracy. Reform movement (11th c.) professionalized the papacy, introducing College of Cardinals and reforms.
• Schism and Anti-Popes: Schisms occurred mainly due to rival elite factions and split elections. Most resolved quickly; the Great Western Schism (14th c.) lasted decades.
• Aftermath: Conciliar movement (15th c.) posed new questions about papal vs. council authority; schism remained a live issue into the Renaissance.

Miller: "...the papacy really develops rapidly as an institution...the College of Cardinals being the body that elects popes." (44:00)
Şenocak: "It really goes on into the later periods as well, this problem of schism in the papal elections and where the authority really lies..." (47:37)

Current Research Projects

[48:16 – 57:44]

• Neslihan Şenocak: Writing a history of “pastoral power”—tracing the idea of bishops, abbots, and emperors as “shepherds” of the Christian people from the New Testament through the Middle Ages, exploring how this concept influenced governance and church-state relations.
• Maureen Miller: Focused on Città di Castello—analyzing how the local struggle between bishop and commune over property shaped urban space, with the aim of producing a work for both scholars and the local community.

Şenocak: "My project is called a History of Pastoral Power, Bishops, Abbots and Kings... It starts with basically the New Testament..." (48:36)
Miller: "I've developed a book that I'm writing now... A Piazza and its Bishops and the Commune in Medieval Citta di Castello... I really want this book to be for the people of the city in gratitude for their wonderful openness..." (51:52 – 57:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On archival work:

  “Italy is the best place to try to write that [history from the ground up] because these notarial documents reveal the names of lots of individuals.” (Miller, 06:45)

• On urbanization’s impact:

  “People are actually involved in the day-to-day politics...they do demand the best from their clergy.” (Şenocak, 04:45)

• On Italian confraternities:

  “People are not just content simply going to the church on Sunday...they want to do more. They want to dedicate more of their time, more of their money to religious services.” (Şenocak, 37:45)

• On the papacy’s transformation:

  “This kind of condition of the papacy leads to movements for reform...the papacy really develops rapidly as an institution.” (Miller, 43:40)

Key Timestamps by Segment

• Introductions: [00:45 – 03:15]
• What makes Italy unique?: [03:35 – 06:45]
• Normans & Latinization: [08:06 – 11:57]
• Florentine communal governance: [12:35 – 16:33]
• The Pieve: [17:25 – 20:41]
• Monasteries and Wealth: [21:20 – 25:56]
• Cluniacs & Cistercians: [26:38 – 30:57]
• Book genesis: [31:24 – 34:16]
• Confraternities: [34:16 – 41:13]
• Papal authority, anti-popes: [41:13 – 48:16]
• Current research: [48:16 – 57:44]

Conclusion

This episode is a thorough, accessible tour through the rich institutional and social history of medieval Italian Christianity. Listeners gain a fresh appreciation for local agency, urban vibrancy, monastic reform, and the sheer diversity of religious experiences—well beyond papal Rome or ecclesiastical elites. The hosts’ enthusiasm and deep knowledge underscore why Italy remains so compelling for medievalists, and why the work of “A People’s Church” opens this field to a wider audience.