Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Aaron Cayer, "Incorporating Architects: How American Architecture Became a Practice of Empire" (U California Press, 2025)
Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Aaron Cayer

Overview of the Episode

This episode features a conversation with Dr. Aaron Cayer (Cal Poly Pomona) about his newly published book, Incorporating Architects: How American Architecture Became a Practice of Empire. The episode explores how giant American architecture and engineering firms like AECOM evolved into powerful, globe-spanning organizations intertwined with government agendas, military operations, and cycles of reconstruction. Cayer provides a behind-the-scenes look at the profession's transformation, the firms’ deep ties with the U.S. government, and the resulting impacts on both the profession and global infrastructure.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction to Dr. Aaron Cayer and the Book

• Dr. Cayer introduces himself as an architectural historian and professor at Cal Poly Pomona, with an early interest stemming from his background in rural Maine and Vermont, where architecture was nearly absent.
• He noticed a lack of scholarship on large architecture firms, motivating him to study companies like Daniel Mann, Johnson & Mendenhall (DMJM), later known as AECOM.
• Surprise: The growth of massive architecture firms was a phenomenon not well understood or documented, and their histories were often intentionally obscured.

  "I found that DMJM and AECOM's history was really defined by military contracts and political alliances that reached as high as the presidency in the US..." (03:57)

Research Methods & Source Challenges (04:49)

• Unlike most architectural historians, Cayer pursued business records, contracts, and oral histories, encountering obfuscation from AECOM’s legal team.
• He employed creative research strategies—Freedom of Information Act requests, public archives, oral histories with employees, and even rummaging through family photo albums in search of overlooked evidence.
• Result: A “historical ethnography” that reconstructs institutional histories while spotlighting lived experience.

  "...these oral histories really proved to be invaluable...they illuminated the culture and decision making of the firm itself..." (06:37)

The Rise and Scale of American Mega-Firms (08:09)

• The book focuses on AECOM (originating as DMJM in Los Angeles), which evolved from a postwar specialty in schools to building everything from highways to global military bases.
• In the late 19th to early 20th century, firms with 50 employees were considered large; by the 1970s, firms like AECOM boasted up to 100,000 employees, designing entire cities and infrastructure globally.

  "...by the 1970s, firms were designing not only single buildings like factories, but actually entire cities..." (09:20)

The 1970s: Deregulation and Neoliberalism (10:10)

• The 1970s marked a pivotal moment due to deregulation prompted by attacks from federal government (Nixon and Reagan administrations).
• Professional codes previously prevented architects from engaging in real estate, construction management, or fee competition.
• Shifts were not merely top-down: Some architects actively encouraged deregulation through political engagement, including contributions to the Republican National Committee and connections to Watergate and other scandals.

  "...what I found in the book and what I describe is actually how architects and engineers encouraged these policy changes even before the government did." (11:59)
  "...there were even a number of quid pro quos between firms like DMJM and AECOM and state and federal governments for contracts in exchange for financial contributions to the RNC." (12:30)

Post-WWII Expansion & Internationalization (13:42)

• After WWII, U.S. firms expanded rapidly due to massive government defense spending and global reconstruction efforts, much of it channeled through institutions like the World Bank and USAID.
• These expansion efforts were closely linked to U.S. imperial ambitions, resulting in a so-called "imperial industrial complex."

  "...they were able then to manipulate professional code and deregulate the profession...because they were so embedded in the government." (15:10)

What Did These Firms Build? (17:44)

• In the 1950s-60s, firms began with specializations (schools, military bases) but quickly diversified into designing missile facilities, military and corporate headquarters, and eventually developed a “conglomerate aesthetic” for multi-divisional companies.
• Signature architects (e.g., César Pelli, Anthony Lumsden) were recruited to enhance the firms’ design reputations.

The Government-Firm Relationship (20:58)

• The deep intertwining of personal and professional networks helped firms secure government contracts and build ever-larger organizations.
• Cayer connects these cycles of destruction (wars, disasters) and development/reconstruction (e.g., post-Katrina, Ukraine, Gaza) to the concept of “disaster capitalism.”

  "They were really benefiting from this cycle and these cyclical forms of destruction and development, which scholars like Naomi Klein describe as disaster capitalism." (22:39)

Internal Debates: The Value of “Books” (24:12)

• In the 1970s, debates emerged within firms around “book value” (assets on the books) versus “market value” (future projections), indicative of shifts in financial capitalism.
• Firms updated their organizational manuals, moving away from single volumes to adaptable binders (“portfolios”), mirroring broader business complexity and change.

  "...they began to use binders, which they called portfolios...so that they could easily swap out parts or update things and account for the complexities of business practice as necessary." (25:18)

Diversification of the Architecture Workforce (27:00)

• The sheer scale of these firms necessitated hiring roles traditionally seen as outside the core profession (librarians, technologists, etc.), leading to greater hiring of women and people of color.
• Large firms, more than small ones, provided entry points into the profession for marginalized groups, though often relegated at first to non-architectural roles.

  "...these large firms were hiring women and people of color much more frequently than the smaller firms. And their very presence, I argue in the book, in these offices started to really make a difference..." (28:04)

Impact of Workforce Diversity and Notable Stories

• Women like Zelma Wilson, Kim Day, and Ellen Wright, among others, broke barriers in the profession after starting at these large firms, eventually leading organizations and major projects.
• These changes nudged (but did not fully transform) the dominance of white men in the architecture profession.

Most Surprising Revelations (30:47)

• Cayer was most surprised by how entangled architects became with government and politics, including back-room deals and political appointments like Olympic infrastructure contracts, often awarded without open competition.

  "...they’re seeming to be really embedded in government...just hired because of their reputation and political and economic clout. And this is something that I assumed was not part of the practice...as I was learning about architecture." (31:04)

Dr. Cayer's Current and Future Research (32:32)

• Cayer is beginning a new project on men, masculinity, and secrecy, focusing on hidden archives in the U.S. Southwest (e.g., Church of Scientology, Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, Jeffrey Epstein), examining land use, secrecy, and the role of architects/builders in these secretive projects.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On research frustrations:
  "After months of back and forth with AECOM’s administration, the company's legal counsel denied me access, actually to its archives." — Dr. Aaron Cayer (05:27)

• On the scale of AECOM’s influence:
  "...by the 1970s, firms were designing not only single buildings like factories, but actually entire cities...with close to 100,000 people working within them, as in the case of AECOM." (09:20)

• On deregulation:
  "...architects and engineers encouraged these policy changes even before the government did." (11:59)

• Government-firm cycles and disaster capitalism:
  "They were really benefiting from this cycle and these cyclical forms of destruction and development, which scholars like Naomi Klein describe as disaster capitalism." (22:39)

• Diversity in the workplace:
  “Their very presence...in these offices started to really make a difference and open the door for them to take other roles at the center of these operations as architects or even as attorneys, or even as presidents or vice presidents, though they were still always fighting discrimination and biases…” (28:04)

• On personal surprise:
  “I had no idea that they were having cocktails with presidents and engaged in quid pro quo, like we might expect, perhaps, with other industries with more economic power...This is something that I assumed was not part of the practice...as I was learning about architecture as a student.” (31:02)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:35 – Dr. Cayer introduces himself and explains motivation for the book
• 04:49 – Research methods and access obstacles
• 08:09 – Introduction to firms like DMJM/AECOM and their scale
• 10:10 – The 1970s and professional deregulation
• 13:42 – Postwar expansion and global “imperial industrial complex”
• 17:44 – What these firms built: examples from schools to military bases
• 20:58 – Why the U.S. government favored the growth of these firms
• 22:39 – “Disaster capitalism” and the cycle of destruction/reconstruction
• 24:12 – The 1970s debate on the value of “books” and professional manuals
• 27:00 – Workforce diversification and changing roles
• 30:47 – Most surprising discoveries about architects’ political entanglements
• 32:32 – Sneak peek into Cayer’s next research on secrecy and masculinity

Takeaways

Dr. Aaron Cayer’s research exposes the vast, often hidden power American architecture and engineering firms wield through their deep corporate-government ties, global reach, and cycles of destruction and reconstruction. His work urges reconsideration of who architects are, what these giant firms do, and how they have shaped – and continue to shape – both the built environment and the very structures of power.