Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Series: New Books in Eastern European Studies
Host: Eva Glj (B)
Guest: Adair Rounthwaite (C): Professor and Chair, Division of Art History, University of Washington
Book: This Is Not My World: Art and Public Space in Socialist Zagreb (University of Minnesota Press, 2024)
Date: October 29, 2025

Overview

This episode explores Adair Rounthwaite’s latest book, This Is Not My World: Art and Public Space in Socialist Zagreb, which delves into the activities of the Group of Six Authors—an experimental circle of artists active in 1970s-80s socialist Yugoslavia. Through a discussion of performance, intimacy, public space, language, pedagogy, photography, kitsch, and the role of institutions, Rounthwaite and host Eva Glj contextually situate the group’s work within wider global and historical currents. The episode is thoughtful, personal, and academically rich, examining how art practices in Zagreb navigated and contested both their immediate political system and broader artistic traditions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adair Rounthwaite’s Path into Yugoslav Experimental Art

• Background in performance and art history: Rounthwaite outlines her journey from Canadian roots through American and European institutions, ultimately gravitating toward Yugoslav topics due to a mix of personal intention and serendipitous encounters.
• Encounter with Yugoslav art: A pivotal visit to an exhibition by Mladen Stilinović, especially the piece "Exploitation of the Dead", and time spent at a performance studies conference in Zagreb led her to focus on the region.
  • “I saw an exhibition... that were sort of like this difficult and painful visual archaeology of various 20th century socialisms, but especially Yugoslav socialism.” (C, 04:18)

2. The Group of Six Authors & Their Context (07:19)

• Originated from interconnected friendship and familial circles.
• Members had diverse backgrounds—some formal artists, others not.
• Operated in an unusual socialist context: experimental art had robust institutional support, but artists sought spontaneous, direct interactions with non-art publics and often felt frustrated by bureaucracy.
• Notable Quote:
  “There was a big difference between artists who are coming from working class backgrounds versus more upper middle class backgrounds. And there's variety in this group ... but they were honestly pretty well connected to people who ran the city’s major art institutions.” (C, 07:40)

3. Intimacy as a Guiding Thread (10:43, 15:00)

• Rounthwaite uses “intimacy” to bridge the personal and material: between artists, audiences, and the fragile quality of the artworks themselves.
• Contrasts broader political/institutional readings with personal connection and small-scale relations.
• Example: Jerman’s "Intimate Inscription" banner created with his girlfriend—publicly ambiguous and deeply personal.
• Notable Quote:
  “Intimate relationships that they then kind of like displayed in public in unusual and potentially transgressive ways...” (C, 11:31)
• Host and guest note the “lived closeness” of Zagreb’s artistic milieu.

4. Exhibition Actions: Redefining Art Space (16:41)

• “Exhibition actions” were group-organized public events (approx. 20 between 1975–79) involving displays, making art, and direct interaction with passerby.
• Often legal but sometimes ambiguous, supported by permits from art institutions but challenging norms.
• Locations ranged from city squares to urban bathing spaces; public interaction varied widely.
• Notable Quote:
  “It's overtly an exhibition, but also in a bunch of different ways, it's kind of liminal both to the exhibition and to existing forms of interacting in public space.” (C, 21:23)
• Memorable moment: group walking through Zagreb carrying artworks, an ambiguous and indirect public act.

5. Language, Pedagogy, and Playfulness (22:20)

• Central to Martek and Stilinović: language wrestled with ideology, artistic canons, and the subversive potential of “unlearning”.
  • Example: Stilinović’s copying of primer lines in childish handwriting as an undoing of ideological education.
• Dual focus on language makes their work both playful and deeply political regarding socialist systems and national tensions.
• Host reflection: The socialist-era “mark for conduct”—once a standard in Yugoslav education—sparks discussion on the broad, ideological grasp of education.

6. Photography as Intimate Documentation (27:58)

• Photography was both a documentation tool and an artistic medium (manipulation, recontextualization).
• Jerman’s "My Year 1977": A daily photo-diary project combining imperfect images and candid texts to reveal the challenge—and value—of intimate documentation.
  • Quote: “There will be, like, an insufficiency of the document. And at the same time, at many different places, we see relationality emerging in that work.” (C, 32:38)
• The project’s revelations about intimacy and relationality extend to his documented relationship with artist Vlasta Delimar, which becomes a focal point.

7. Intimacy, Relationships, and Artistic Life (34:07, 39:00)

• Jerman and Delimar’s romantic relationship and brief collaboration foreground the messiness and risks inherent in intimacy—public and private.
• Their piece "Attempted Identification" (writing “I” on chests, embracing, and publicly showing the resultant smudges) literally embodies the negotiation of closeness and autonomy.
  • Quote: “Wanting to be close to somebody ... but then having that closeness be something that threatens or, you know, potentially compromises one's own identity.” (C, 36:08)
• The tightness (sometimes claustrophobia) of Zagreb’s scene is highlighted: cycles of relationships, artistic collaborations, and breakups.

8. Kitsch: Everyday, Political, Artistic (41:02)

• Kitsch is investigated both as a visual strategy (bright, familiar, “low” culture imagery) and a form of public interaction.
• Delimar’s 1985 performance "Tied to a Tree" deploys imagery invoking martyrdom and violence, both familiar and shocking, to interrogate public space and collective perception.
  • “She's displacing it to kind of both, I mean, shock and surprise people, but also interrogate the nature of that public space.” (C, 44:00)
• The dual valence—socialist and ethno-nationalist kitsch—tracks changing ideologies in Yugoslav history.

9. Global Context: Unique Aspects of Yugoslav Practice (46:47)

• Yugoslav artists shared an experimental attitude toward space with others in the Eastern Bloc but enjoyed more “breathing room” or relaxedness compared to, for example, Moscow Conceptualism or Czechoslovak performance.
  • Memorable Moment:
    “...almost a kind of breathing room or a relaxedness that typifies this art that you don’t see in Moscow Conceptualism.” (C, 47:07)
• Unlike American conceptualism, Zagreb’s artists were often self-trained and not institutionally credentialed, reflecting different relationships to educational and museum structures.

10. Artists in Post-Yugoslav Context (52:57)

• Diverse personal feelings toward Croatia/Yugoslavia, but a shared, consistent tendency to question or withhold identification with the nation.
• As Yugoslavia ended, some shifted to more representational or symbolic work (e.g., stars referencing the Yugoslav flag), but the sense of “not my world” persisted.
  • Quote: “...after the breakup of Yugoslavia, it is still not their world.” (C, 54:22)
• Host and guest agree on the persistent “groundlessness” in the artists’ sense of belonging.

11. Future Work (56:16)

• Rounthwaite is now working on a comparative project about right-wing art and policy in the US and Central/Eastern Europe, focusing on religious imagery.
  • Memorable Comparison: Group Biafra as an “anti-group of six authors”—emotionally, ideologically, and artistically divergent.

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On intimacy and relationality:
  • “Relationality in their work never comes off as something easy.” (C, 11:38)
• On exhibition actions:
  • “It's overtly an exhibition, but also in … different ways, it's kind of liminal both to the exhibition and to existing forms of interacting in public space.” (C, 21:23)
• On self-documentation in art:
  • “There will be ... an insufficiency of the document.” (C, 32:38)
• On artistic “breathing room” in Yugoslavia:
  • “We knew what the various socialisms were like and we knew that ours wasn't that bad.” (Stilinović, paraphrased by C, 47:24)
• On art after Yugoslavia:
  • “...after the breakup of Yugoslavia, it is still not their world.” (C, 54:22)

Key Timestamps

• [03:33] – Rounthwaite’s journey into Yugoslav art
• [07:19] – Composition and dynamics of the Group of Six Authors
• [10:43] – Concept of intimacy as analytic thread
• [16:41] – “Exhibition actions” and public interventions
• [22:20] – Language, pedagogy, and playful resistance
• [27:58] – Photography and Jerman’s “My Year 1977”
• [34:07] – Jerman and Delimar’s collaboration and performative intimacy
• [41:02] – Kitsch in art: meanings and forms
• [46:47] – Comparison to other conceptualisms and the US
• [52:57] – Artistic responses to Yugoslavia’s breakup
• [56:16] – Preview of Rounthwaite’s current research

Conclusion & Further Reading

The episode provides an intimate exploration of a unique Yugoslav artistic group and their innovative navigation of public space, institutional constraints, and shifting political contexts. Rounthwaite’s book is recommended for anyone interested in conceptual art, socialist history, and cultural politics in Central/Eastern Europe.

Host closing invitation:
“I would invite our audience to grab it, read it, look at the beautiful artworks or challenging artworks that you’ve chosen for us.” (B, 55:46)