Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview with Alex Egodotaye Asakitikpi & Aretha Oluwakemi Asakitikpi, "Modern Nigeria" (Bloomsbury, 2024)

Aired: October 7, 2025
Host: Mariam Olubodi
Guests:

• Dr. Alex Egodotaye Asakitikpi, National Senior Researcher, Independent Institute of Education (South Africa)
• Dr. Aretha Oluwakemi Asakitikpi, Consultant Researcher, Southern Business School (Johannesburg)
  Book Discussed: Modern Nigeria: Understanding Modern Nations (Bloomsbury, 2024)

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with Drs. Alex and Aretha Asakitikpi, co-authors of Modern Nigeria. The interview focuses on the book's exploration of Nigeria’s historical foundations, cultural diversity, social, political and economic dynamics, as well as popular culture and education. The guests share the motivations behind their work, the challenges encountered, and the messages they hope to convey to both Nigerian and international audiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Importance of Historical Context

[02:07 – 05:11]

• The authors stress the necessity of understanding Nigeria's pre-colonial history—including its diverse empires and kingdoms—to make sense of modern Nigeria.
  • “Nigeria is not a monolithic society, but it is made up of various groups, various kingdoms and empires.” – Dr. Alex [02:45]
• Connection between history and identity, framing modern Nigeria’s challenges and strengths as products of its complex past.
  • “If we don't understand where we're coming from, we really can't know where we're going.” – Dr. Aretha [04:14]

2. Social, Political & Economic Challenges

[05:45 – 12:48]

• Discussion of Nigeria’s “tension that is so pervasive” relating to socio-political and economic divisions.
  • The loss of social cohesion, rise in divisive politics, and dangerous development since the 2023 elections are major concerns.
    • “Politics has become a major divisive factor in Nigeria… today it seems to be playing a very, very dangerous, divisive move.” – Dr. Alex [07:35]
  • The youth’s stance during the 2023 elections is cited as a potential turning point, yet lingering division persists.
• The role of politics is central—political decisions deeply affect economic and social realities.
  • “It is the core political elected… that speak for the people, make decisions for us as Nigerians, decide economic policies and these policies affect what we can buy, where we can go, what we can do.” – Dr. Aretha [11:11]

3. Popular Culture: Music and Dance

[12:50 – 18:26]

• The section “Music and Dance” foregrounds culture as an economic and social unifier.
• King Sunny Ade was spotlighted for being a foundational and internationally acclaimed artist:
  • “He was the first Nigerian to be nominated for the Grammys…his creativity of fusing different aspects of music…to create a new genre is for us very intriguing.” – Dr. Alex [14:13]
  • “King Sunny Ade represents one of the foundational musicians that was able to fuse music with business… He also represents a unique blend of music and business which I think should be celebrated.” – Dr. Aretha [16:08]
• The selection of artists was constrained by word limits, but other legends (Fela Kuti, Oliver De Coque, etc.) are also mentioned.

4. Describing Nigerian Life: Marriage, Leisure, and Everyday Experience

[18:26 – 23:14]

• Sources of information are diverse: academic literature, media, documentaries, and social platforms.
• Cross-verification of facts and a conscious effort to provide concise, relevant, and authentic content.

5. Structure and Pedagogy: Why Start with Historical “Bottom-Up” Approach?

[21:35 – 25:04]

• Logical flow: Every topic begins with historical roots to provide context and aid young Nigerians who may lack historical awareness.
  • “The historical foundation should be laid...to enlighten and give the basic knowledge that is so required today.” – Dr. Alex [22:04]
  • “A lot of the youth don't really know who they are or their history... we are hoping that it will also remove some of the doubts and identity crisis.” – Dr. Aretha [24:02]

6. Audience: Nigerians & Beyond

[25:04 – 27:18]

• The book is designed as a resource not only for Nigerian youth but also for adults, educators, and non-Nigerians.
• Aims to clarify common misunderstandings (e.g., historical events), and act as a major reference for “what Nigeria is.”

7. Authors’ Journey and Challenges

[27:37 – 33:24]

• Authors discuss the overwhelming nature of synthesizing Nigeria’s vast history and their struggles balancing academic duties with writing.
  • “At various times, we felt we really needed to just give up… but we just felt that we needed to synthesize whatever information we have generated so that we can at least present something to not only Nigerians, but to the world.” – Dr. Alex [27:46]
• The support from publishers and their own children, who inspired aspects of the content, was essential.
• The research process was transformative for the authors themselves:
  • “If not for this book, there’s so many things I didn’t know about my country… It helps me better understand what it is to be a Nigerian.” – Dr. Aretha [31:59]

8. Key Messages for Readers

[34:00 – 38:52]

• Dr. Alex: Calls for renewed engagement with Nigeria’s history and identity, especially as history is eroded from school curricula. Urges reading as a tool for greater national and diasporic understanding.
  • “We need to encourage ourselves…to do some reading. And books like this…will help us to appreciate who we are…” – Dr. Alex [34:34]
• Dr. Aretha: Stresses unity, urging Nigerians to see beyond ethnicity, language, and religion. Invokes an image of Nigeria as a woven cloth—multiple threads forming one fabric.
  • “We are the strings, but we need to weave ourselves together as a strong cloth.” – Dr. Aretha [37:39]
  • “I want people to read… and use the knowledge to better understand not just themselves, but also other people that make up Nigeria.” [37:12]

9. Personal Resonance: Memorable Book Sections

[39:15 – 48:45]

• Dr. Alex: The Nigerian Civil War (Pg. 54) is discussed as pivotal; its unresolved legacies—regional division, ongoing antagonisms, and marginalization—continue to shape the country.
  • “…that era…is what is dragging the country backward. If we begin to see how the Nigerian civil war has created so much bad blood amongst us, we can now begin to appreciate that time and visit it and resolve those issues.” [44:26]
• Dr. Aretha: Focused on education (Pg. 184), advocating for a return to integrating communal values into curricula.
  • “I see a disconnect between what education is teaching us today, unlike the indigenous times… The aim of the education at that time was to unite the people…now we need to reframe our education.” [46:14]

Notable Quotes

• “Nigeria is built on antiques that form who we are. And understanding where we're coming from I think is part of what makes us unique…” – Aretha [04:14]
• “Our social cohesion that we used to celebrate in years past is becoming an albatross to us.” – Alex [07:06]
• “King Sunny Ade was able to carve that path for others to follow…a unique blend of music and business.” – Aretha [16:11]
• “A lot of the youth don’t really know who they are or their history. And this sometimes causes [an] identity [crisis]…” – Aretha [24:10]
• “We are the strings, but we need to weave ourselves together as a strong cloth.” – Aretha [37:39]
• “If we begin to see how the Nigerian civil war has created so much bad blood amongst us, we can… resolve those issues.” – Alex [44:28]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Historical Context: [02:07 – 05:11]
• Social/Political/Economic Challenges: [05:45 – 12:48]
• Popular Culture – King Sunny Ade: [12:50 – 18:26]
• Sources and Approach to Research: [18:26 – 23:14]
• Why Begin with History: [21:35 – 25:04]
• Target Audience: [25:04 – 27:18]
• Writing Challenges & Transformation: [27:37 – 33:24]
• Messages for Readers: [34:00 – 38:52]
• Civil War & Education – Memorable Segments: [39:15 – 48:45]

Conclusion

This episode presents Modern Nigeria as both a scholarly reference and an accessible entry point for understanding Nigeria’s diversity, culture, and persistent challenges. The authors advocate for deeper engagement with history and culture as means for healing, unity, and national advancement, delivering personal reflections and calls to action that resonate far beyond Nigeria’s borders.