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Alex Egodotaye Asakitikpi and Aretha Oluwakemi Asakitikpi, "Modern Nigeria" (Bloomsbury, 2024)
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org, jack Daniels and old number seven are registered trademarks. Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume. Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee hello everybody. This is Marshall Poe. I'm the founder and editor of the New Books Network. And if you're listening to this, you know that the NBN is the large, largest academic podcast network in the world. We reach a worldwide audience of 2 million people. You may have a podcast or you may be thinking about starting a podcast. As you probably know, there are challenges basically of two kinds. One is technical. There are things you have to know in order to get your podcast produced and distributed. And the second is, and this is the biggest problem, you need to get an audience. Building an audience in podcasting is the hardest thing to do today. With this in mind, we at the NBM have started a service called NBM Productions. What we do is help you create a podcast, produce your podcast, distribute your podcast, and we host your podcast. Most importantly, what we do is we distribute your podcast to the NBN audience. We've done this many times with many academic podcasts and we would like to help you. If you would be interested in talking to us about how we can help you with your podcast, please contact us. Just go to the front page of the New Books Network and you will see a link to NBN Productions. Click that, fill out the form and we can talk. Welcome to the New Books Network.
- [01:32]
B
Welcome to the MBA in African Studies channel. I am Mariam Olubodi, the host. Today I have Dr. Alex Afai Kitekwi, the National Senior Researcher in the Faculty of Humanities at the Independent Institute of Education, South Africa, and Dr. Arit Her Thacketwi, a consultant researcher and hyjan staff at the Southern Business school in Johannesburg. Dr. Alex and Arike are the authors of the book Modern Nigeria Understanding Modern Nations. You're welcome to the NBA.
- [02:03]
C
Thank you so much, Dr. Mariam.
- [02:05]
D
Thank you so much, Doctor Mariel.
- [02:07]
B
All right, to start with, the book is titled Modern Nigeria. But a chapter of the book discusses the historical antecedents of the nation, including the national history of occupation and of civilization. How relevant are the histories to the understanding of modern Nigeria?
- [02:25]
C
Thank you very much. I think it is so very important that we situate the modern Nigeria in its historical context because prior to Nigeria becoming a nation state in 1914, the geographical space referred to as Nigeria today was occupied by various empires, kingdoms and other forms of groups. And these groups that amalgamated to become Nigeria today had their forms of civilizations. The Naq civilization in central Nigeria, the traditions of the Oyo empire in the southwest, they Igboko in the southeast, the Beni empire in the middle belt, sorry, in the south. South are all parts of the group that make up Nigeria today. And it is important therefore to understand that Nigeria is not a monolithic society, but it is made up of various groups, various kingdoms and empires. And so I think it is very important that we understand the formation of the country before we begin to appreciate its modern stance as a nation state today. So I think that is so very crucial and it set the tone for us to have a better understanding of the country. I think I will just allow Aretha to just say one or two things. Eto.
- [04:09]
B
Okay, over to you, Dr. Aruche.
- [04:12]
D
Thank you so much, Dr. Alex and Dr. Miriam. I think in addition to what Dr. Alex has mentioned, history is something that if we don't understand where we're coming from, we really can't know where we're going. Nigeria is modern because it's built on history. It's built on antiques that form who we are. And understanding where we're coming from I think is part of what makes us unique, modern Nigerian citizens. And this uniqueness is celebrated not just within Nigeria, but also outside Nigeria, which is why we see ourselves as modern and contemporary. However, that concept of modern modernization and contemporaness is based on our history is based on who we are. If we don't know who we are, we really can't develop into something for the future. We can't really have anything really meaningful to give the society as part of our modernity.
- [05:11]
B
Thank you very much. Dr. Arica, what I could pick from your exposition, from your discussion is that history is very important in understanding of the present. We can't understand the present if we don't know what the past is. That's quite interesting. In the book you dwelled on social, political, economic attributes of Nigeria as a modern nation. What mission say do you intend to pass across to your audience with these details, if I may ask?
- [05:46]
C
There are so many socio economic indicators and key to that is our social interactions in modern day Nigeria. And for us, we think that the, the tension that is so perversive in Nigeria today is very disturbing and concerning. And so we try to identify how these social, political and economic indicators tend to polarize us rather than unify us. And what we try to emphasize is that even though our economic situations are not the best at the moment, our political differences are very much understood. They shouldn't be a means for us to become divisive and antagonistic to one another. The social engineering that we see today in Nigeria is a predictor of, of how far the country has gone. And it is very, very disturbing to see that our social cohesion that we used to celebrate in years past is becoming an albatross to us. We see that at the political level, we see that at the social level, we see that at the economic level. The idea that some people do not have a right to reside and do business in another part of the country, very disturbing. In fact, it is getting worse. And that is why in the book we had also emphasized on the issue of politics, how politics has become an. A major divisive factor in Nigeria in those days. Politics will play out and then we just reunite and then we move on. But today it seems to be playing a very, very dangerous, divisive move. And for us, this is extremely disturbing. And that is one of the key messages that we try to put forward. And in the introductory part of the book, we talked about how the youth during the 2023 election had talked about taking back their country so that we don't degenerate further. Incidentally, the book had gone to press by the time the courts pronounced Mr. Balala Tinubu as the winner of the 2023 election. But what becomes even more disturbing is that even after the declaration, we are still having very, very intense and intense social interaction which I think is not healthy for the developments of the country.
- [08:47]
B
Thank you very much. Dr. Alex, you mentioned plurality when we're discussing social economic situation of Nigeria. Please can you draw more on that?
- [08:58]
C
Yes. The issue of the economy, issue of morality, the issue of tolerance are all intertwined. And in my opinion, I think that is one of the major reasons why Nigeria is where it is today. I think the potentials that we have, we do not mobilize them to advance our course as a nation. And this, this breakdown in social, social trust, social morality in itself is one of the bane of our problems as a country today. And in that section we try to see how the modern state of Nigeria is degenerating. And anyone who reads those sections will be worried to see how the trajectory Nigeria as a nation state is taking at the moment.
- [10:00]
B
All right, over to you, Dr. Arija. What do you.
- [10:05]
D
I think in addition to what Dr. Alex has mentioned is the realization. I think when I when putting this book together, one thing that really struck me about Nigeria and its past, its presence and its future is the role politics plays. From whether it's the pre colonial to the colonial to the independent times. This the, the people who ruled Nigeria significantly influenced the social culture of the people. And the decisions made went further to influence the economic situation or the economic context in which the Nigerian people lived in. So the politics is a core part of the development of Nigeria into a modernity. And if we don't get that right, there's definitely going to be a lot of problems economically and socially because it is the polit, the core political people, or the core political elected or electives or selective that speak for the people, make decisions for us. As Nigerians decide economic policies and these policies affect what we can buy, where we can go, what we can do. So we need to understand where we're coming from in terms of politics and not allow insignificant things like ethnicity or religion to separate us or to allow our selected or elected leaders to use that to reduce our power as a people. We need to be able to realize the importance of politics and choose wisely and speak up and hold them accountable. Because what they do, the decisions they make, whether it is in their bedrooms or in the hallowed chambers, affects you and me, affects the unborn, affects even what we refer to as modern Nigeria. And I hope our readers, when they read this, they see that the importance of that core, of that core that makes us a Nigerian. Who are our leaders, what our leaders do, the decisions they make on our behalf significantly impact what we refer to as our social well being as well as our economic development.
- [12:33]
B
Thank you very much, Dr. Arisha. So it is not just mere exposition that you mentioned social, political, economic issues in Nigeria. It's actually a revolutionary call to make the nation better, to make the people live better.
- [12:49]
D
Definitely.
- [12:50]
B
So apart from social, economic, a section of the book is entitled Music and Dance. Let me say subsection of the book, while discussing these aspects of the people's popular culture, specifically highlight a musical artist. King Sonny Ade. I'm curious, I want to believe that there are numerous artists in Nigeria. Where is this artist singled out? Over to you, Dr. Alex.
- [13:18]
C
Yes, thank you very much indeed. You are right there. Numerous artists, musicians in Nigeria and we are blessed with so much creativity, so much talent and those who project the Nigerian culture, the Nigerian spirit through music. And that is one of the major challenges that we faced based on the restriction in terms of word Counts of the book. So in amongst all these influential and pioneering musicians, we had to make the choice of selecting a few. And one of them is Kingsoniade. And we chose him primarily because of the significant role he has played in the music industry. And it is not to say that we underplay or undermine the contribution of other musicians. We just felt that we needed to showcase his contribution. Especially because one, he was the first Nigerian to be nominated for the Grammys award and in fact he was also the second to be so nominated. But also importantly, it's the idea that his creativity of fusing different aspects of music, including juju, including some aspect of pop and so on, to create a new genre is for us very intriguing. And the idea is that it will inspire and motivate others, other readers of the book to see the contribution of this very important musician. But again, it is to be mentioned that he is not the only inspiring a musician. Others have been so much they have contributed significantly to the development of music in Nigeria. And we named a few such as Fela Nicola Kokuti, such as Dambaraya Jos, such as Oliver De Kok and so on. So we only picked some so that we can use that to showcase the.
- [15:36]
B
The.
- [15:38]
C
Distribution of talents across the country so that it's not just in one region of the country but in other parts of the country too. So we chose Soniade specifically because of his major contribution towards music development in the country.
- [15:58]
B
Thank you Dr. Alex. Dr. Arita, what do you have to say on this chapter?
- [16:04]
D
Thank you very much Dr. Alex as well as Dr. Miriam. I think in addition to that, King Soniade represents one of the foundational musicians that was able to fuse music with business. He went above and aboard a lot of what other musicians were doing at that time. I think he had his own record label at the time. And then he even was able to do collaboration not only in Nigeria, but also abroad with international record producers. So he was one of the foremost Nigerian artists that was able to do that. International connection between Nigeria and the US and I think part of the importance of that and I think it also laid a foundation for more contemporary artists. You know, like for example Wizkid had his own record company, Banki W also has his, you know, major players also took a leap from that and decided not to become dependent like some other previous artists were dependent on foreign record labels. So Kingston Ade was able to carve that path for others to follow. So in addition to the wonderful music and dance that he's contributed to the music industry, he also represents a unique blend of music and business which I think should be celebrated and as I said, leads a pathway for others. But as Dr. Alex mentioned, he's not the only one we highlighted. Even when we discussed Sonia Adegu. Look at it. We also will try to weave in other artists in other aspects of the book, especially in terms of the contemporary music part, like Davido. We had those who, who got Grammys, like Burna Boy, Davido, Kate, Daniel. So we did try to project those. But in terms of the historical foundation of artists, King Sonia really did stand out, as I said, not only because his nominations, but also because of his unique ability to blend music and business.
- [18:27]
B
All right, Dr. Aricha, what I could pick from your explanation is that in the text we are not only projecting the Nigerian artist or aspects of the Nigerian popular culture, we are also trying to say showcase how the aspects of those, but how people actually promote other aspects of the people's lives or other aspects of Nigerians life. Let me use the word Nigerians beyond just showcasing their talent, but to promote the social, economic and socio economic aspects of the Nigerian life to make the life of the people better. Okay, so I'm moving forward. You present details of the lives of the Nigerian people in the book, including marriage, dating and other activities that the people engage in during leisure. I would like to know what are the sources of information you present in the pool, how did you get that data and why? Over to you, Dr. Alex.
- [19:30]
C
Thank you very much for that. The sources were quite diverse. We had relied on academic writings, we had relied on social media platforms. We had relied on other books that speak to the topic that we talked about. We also looked at various videos, links to give us a balanced perspective.
- [20:07]
D
We had to confirm or ascertain the authenticity through other sources. For example, other medium like YouTube videos, documentaries, magazines, old magazines as well as journal articles, books to ensure that there is consistency. Once we notice that there's consistency in a particular information, we believe it's authentic and then we add it or weave it into the narrative. So it was a very thorough exhausting and needed a lot of work. But I think at the end of the day our readers will appreciate the amount of volumes of work we put into. We try to put into 500 words because those that we had that template to work with. So within 500 words we had to condense a lot of information, decide which part was relevant and which part was not. So it was a process of confirming, removing, summarizing, paraphrasing to ensure that the information given out there was authentic or is authentic.
- [21:13]
B
Thank you. Dr. Aricha. From my perusal Hogeboro book or let me say in get look at the book. I realize that every section has suggestions for further readings. We have this at every. At the end of every section and subsection.
- [21:34]
D
Thank you. All right.
- [21:36]
B
In the book, every metric you discuss starts from the historical perspective or from a simple description of phenomenon. Why did you adopt this stuff over to you, Dr. Alex?
- [21:47]
C
Yes, we had to adopt the style for two major reasons. One, we try as much as possible to use that as a basis to put whatever we want to discuss in context. Secondly, we think that it is a logical flow from the narrative because sometimes when we discuss issues pertaining to Nigeria, it could be social, it could be political and so on. We tend to discuss it out of context. And it is important that the historical foundation should be laid. And we assume that some of our readers would likely be young adults and some in the university. Some might even be in high school. So we felt it is important that we put whatever narrative in context and we felt that is very important in trying to ensure that we enlighten and give the basic knowledge that is so required today. And I think this is one of the major factor why we use that style rather than just discuss the contemporary.
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B
Thank you, Dr. Alex. Dr. Arita.
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D
I think also in addition to what Dr. Alex said, we also wanted to create or introduce a new perspective whereby we don't start from the top, we start from the bottom. Experience as lecturers has taught us that a lot of the youth don't really know who they are or their history. And this sometimes causes identity where you're coming from. We don't know the rich answer in which you are associated with. A lot of our youth only know maybe about the slave trade or betrayals of our sisters or or maybe clashes. They don't understand the beauty of their lineage. The beauty of for example, the Owa people or the people from Undo or the people from Sokoto. These are the rich histories that even during the before the colonial time, peoples in Nigeria were identified as being even more civilized than a number of even some of the European communities. Is it our cloth? Because talked about the cloth that we have that was even a bitter or superior quality compared to that that was produced in Manchester. If our youth know this, the rich ancestry, we are hoping that it will also remove some of the doubts and identity crisis some of our youth may be having now as and begin to embrace the rich ancestry or the rich lineage that make up what they are today. As modern Nigerian citizens.
- [25:05]
B
All right, Dr. Aricha Charity, they say, begins at home. So the first gathering of audience you have targeted are Nigerians. And you feel that, okay, the Nigerian youth are not conscious of their past. They don't know their histories. And this we know. The history guide our daily lives. It helps us understand where we are coming from and where we are going. So I. So this is one of the many reasons you have targeted the Nigerian youth. So aside the Nigerian youth, of what relevance are these areas? Do you target other youths from others?
- [25:44]
D
Yeah. So the aim of this book is not just to help us understand ourselves better. That is not just for the youth. Also for older adults or those who want to. Where there's some misunderstanding. Not misunderstanding, lack of clarity about some aspects of what Nigeria is. I remember I was discussing with one of my colleagues and were debating on the Lagos when the colonialists attacked Lagos and leveled Lagos under Oba Kosoko. And my colleague was like, no, it wasn't. Kosoko was not the one in charge at that time. It was somebody else. And I told him authoritatively that I have read this, and this is what the history says. So it's not just for the youth. It's also for anybody. It's a major resource material. We want it to be a major resource material that people can refer to if they're not in doubt about certain parts of Nigeria. So it's not just for Nigeria to understand what Nigerian being a Nigerian is. It's also for those outside Nigeria to understand what Nigeria is, what we are made from, where we come from, what makes us Nigerians, modern Nigerian historically, in present and even in the future. So I think this is a resource book, really, not just for Nigeria, but also for other people who want to know more about Nigeria and what being a Nigerian is.
- [27:18]
B
Okay. Dr. Areta, obviously you have put in a lot of effort.
- [27:23]
D
Yes, a lot of effort did go into the. The research of this book in terms of digging and reflection and. And reflections and insights into some of the materials we're engaging in.
- [27:37]
B
All right. At any point, is there any point in the journey where you doubt the success of those works? I would like to know. Over to you, Dr. Alex.
- [27:46]
C
Yes, of course. At various times, we felt we really needed to just give up because the information was so overwhelming that we're not sure if we're going to do a very good job and justice to the Nigerian society. But we just felt that we needed to synthesize whatever information we have generated so that we can at least present something to not only Nigerians, but to the world. And so that was what was pushing us and keeping us going. But at the time, it also became very, very daunting because we're also confronted with our primary duty as academics, lecturers and researchers. So we had to meet some of our core responsibilities in our place of work. So what we then need to do was to devote most of our nights and weekends to this work. But we also need to all appreciate the publishers. They were so very, very encouraging, supportive. The ABC Clio as well as Bloomsbury were always there to encourage us. Even when sometimes we did not meet the deadline to submit a portion or a section of the book. They just sympathized with us with the challenges that we had. And then that kept us going until we finally submitted the manuscript. And then once we did that, we breathed a sigh of relief because it was a major load off our shoulders. But at the end of the day, we're quite happy that we're able to push on and ensure that the book city light of day. And we also have to give credit to our children because even though they had spent some time in Nigeria, they still, just like many other young Nigerian adults, they still didn't know so much of the country. But their eagerness, their curiosity kept us going. So we discuss some of these issues as we write and then that for us was a very, very important motivation factor. So at the end of the day, daunting, yes, but it was fulfilling, I would say. Jago Prime Big Deal Days Para que.
- [30:29]
A
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- [30:35]
B
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- [30:39]
A
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- [31:41]
C
Experian.
- [31:43]
B
Hey. So the Nigerian youth represented by your children, the publishers, they are part of the success story for this beautiful piece. All right, Dr. Arita.
- [31:56]
D
Well, I also want to say part of what was really intriguing was just how much information is out there about Nigeria, just how much has been written that seem to be like hidden treasures underneath, just underneath our fingertips. If not for this book, there's so many things I didn't know about my country, about my people, and even about myself. I think writing this helps me better understand what it is to be a Nigerian. And I think it also is helping me to better position myself as a Nigerian and helping even our children to also be able to do the same thing. But as Dr. Alex said, we really cannot sing the praises of the publishers enough. Their patience was extraordinary. I think they got to a stage, they began to realize that the steam was dying out, and they kept on just like, no, it's fine. You can do it. You need more time. You need more space, you know, so it was quite daunting. It took a lot from us as parents, as researchers, but as Dr. Alex said, the results was very satisfying. And we really cannot also. But give God. Glory to God, who also made all this possible.
- [33:25]
B
Effy. God is wonderful. So the book is not just an exposition to others. It's actually a eye opener to you too, because you've learned a lot of things from it. So that shows how valuable the work is going to be out there. If you can learn from it, that means it. Quite a number of people also have the potential to learn from it, too, just like I, as a reader, have been able to learn from it. Thank you very much. All right, what message do you have for your audience, if I may ask? Dr. Alex?
- [34:00]
C
There are various messages. Well, I think the first for me is the need to have a. At least some degree of grasp of the Nigerian society, both its contemporary nature as well as its historical past. I know that Nigerians read a lot. However, I think there's also some form of selective reading, perhaps because the Nigerian government is systematically removing history as part of the core education in the country. So people may not. They don't seem to appreciate the history of the country. And that, for me, is a major limitation. So we need to encourage ourselves, both the younger ones and the older ones, to do some reading. And books like this, Modern Nigeria, will help us to appreciate who we are, become more knowledgeable of who we are than hitherto. And those who are in the diaspora, they also need it. Yes, their parents would have told them one or two things about Nigeria. But I think it is important for them to also do their own reading. If they have a copy of a book such as Modern Nigeria, it will help them a great deal because we try to traverse the length and breadth of the country from the north to the south, from the east to the west and we try to pick something from each of the cultures. Even though it is almost an impossible task. We did the best we could so that some of the names they have not heard of before, some of the cultural traits they didn't know, they can begin to appreciate it. And it's not a book that they can read just in one day or in one swoop. They can take a section which can stand on its own, read that within a week or even two, three weeks and then go to the next section. To have a very good understanding of the diversity that is modern Nigeria and the rich culture that it possesses. Even the geographical information in terms of the weather, in terms of the geomorphology and so on and so for these are very, very important and I think that is one strong message. I think I will need to encourage Nigerians in the country and those in the diaspora to consider when considering getting a book that will give them a synopsis of Nigeria as it is today and the historical factors that led to its creation.
- [37:05]
B
Right. Thank you, Dr. Alex. Dr. Arita, what message do you have for your audience?
- [37:10]
D
I think for me the message I would want every reader to consider is that Nigeria is more than ethnicity, Nigeria is more than religion and Nigeria is should be known. I want people to read and use the knowledge to better understand not just themselves as Nigerians but also other people that make up Nigeria. I want us to break down the. I want people to read and use the knowledge to break down the walls that were created during the colonial time that made one group think the other was an enemy, that made one group think one cultural traits was inferior. I want people to read this book and have an eye opening experience and realize that each culture is unique. And it's like a woven pattern. It's like it's a cloth. Like a cloth, each piece is woven in between the other to make a strong piece. But it starts with a string and we are strings, but we need to weave together to make a strong cloth. So I want us to see at the message I feel that modern Nigeria should be bringing out is we are the strings, but we need to weave ourselves together as a strong cloth. That's beautiful. And that can only come out when we accept and we break down the walls and accept that Nigeria is more than ethnicity. It's more than religion. It's even more than language. It's something that should be united to bring something more in a beautiful modern Nigeria.
- [38:52]
B
Thank you, Dr. Aricha. So this is a powerful message that you've learned for the audience through the words, through every punctuation, through every sectional divisions, including the appendix says in the word that's beautiful. Could you share a part of the story book that interests you? Dr. Alex?
- [39:16]
C
Yes, thank you, I will. I think for me, one of the most important, even though emotional aspects of the book is could be found on page 54. And that is part of the history. We try to look at the historical trends through time. And on page 54, we talk about the 1966 to 1967 and by extension to 1960, 1970 Nigerian Civil War, a most harrowing experience. And that experience is still being lived not only in our memories, but also in our conversations, in our interactions, and in the decisions we make. The story of the Nigerian civil war has not been. Has not been well interrogated so that we have a good understanding of its complexities and how it has shaped modern Nigeria, especially politicians and its citizens. I think that if we read, for example, 1966-1967, Major General Agui Irorunci spent 194 days in power and on July 17 and 18, 1966, ushered in another coup, this time headed by northern military heads. The counter coup witnessed the assassination of Aguy Ironsi and the systematic elimination of army officials from southeastern Nigeria. The emerging leadership was handed over to Lt. Col. Yakubu Gowari on July 29, 1967, who at that time was the most senior army officer from the northern region. Now, why this is so important is because we see that division based on region. We're talking about a coup that was staged and a counter coup at this time. We now begin to talk about a counter coup that was staged by officers from northern Nigeria. We now talk about those that became the vanquished as those from southeastern Nigeria. And I think that is one of the key moments that we still live through today in Nigeria. The whole idea that a group of people has been so identified as causing a major shift in Nigeria's march to development is still with us today. But there's also the dimension that a section of the country should see itself as the authority that must always be in power. That Seed was sown during that critical period of Nigeria's history, which a period that I refer to as a major historical watershed. So what we see today in Nigeria, the antagonism, the bitterness, the rancor could be traced to that era of Nigeria's history. And we have not fully explored that past. The book written by President Lucia Senjio, My Command. And then we'd have other books such as the Five Generals and so on and so forth. We have to see how we can piece these pieces together and see how we can build a narrative. What can we learn, what are the lessons and how can we overcome? Because I don't think we have overcome the dichotomy that was forced on us during that period. That is why it is so painful that today we hear some people from the southeast say calling Nigeria a zoo, a country which they live in. Understandably, they may be nursing some grudges against Nigeria, but that in itself is self defeatist, is self defeating. The same applies to the Hausas or those in the south, some in the southwest that say that, for example, the Igbos cannot live in Lagos. They cannot, they cannot do business in Lagos. They have to go back to their land. Those type of ideas, such pronouncements, are only creating more divisions and it is not going to be beneficial to anyone. And for me, that is what is dragging the country backward. If we begin to see how the Nigerian civil war has created so much bad blood amongst us, we can now begin to appreciate that time and visit it and resolve those issues. Even though in 1970 General Gowon said that there was no victor, there was no vanquished, we know that 50 years after that civil war, we still know that the egos of southeastern Nigeria are the villains. And they have been so systematically marginalized. And we still have northern oligarchy and those from the southwest have become the victors. And this type of arrangement is not healthy for a nation that aspire to become a developed nation in the committee of nations. So I think for me, that is an important aspect of the book that we need to further interrogate so that we can truly heal the wound that that era has festered on us.
- [45:40]
B
Thank you. Dr. Alex, a quick one. Dr. Arita, what part of the book would you like to share with the audience?
- [45:47]
D
For me, I'm very, very particular about education. And so my section is. I'll be looking at the education section of it. That's page 184. Now we're looking at the last sentence of the second paragraph which says, in addition and here it's talking about indigenous. Indigenous education. In addition, indigenous education included teachings about communal spirits, spiritual philosophies, and their connections to the people, history, culture and norms. Through these communal knowledge, learners form an identity within society. As a researcher, as an educationalist, I taught in Nigeria, I'm currently teaching here in South Africa. I see a disconnect between what is taught in our classrooms and what society is teaching us. I see a disconnect between the education that we're giving our children and the ability to be able to use that education to survive. I see education as slowly stripping our students from. Stripping from our students the skills to be able to appreciate nature. I think that's the reason why you see somebody take pure water and just drop it on the floor. I think there's a huge disconnect between what education is teaching us today, unlike the indigenous times. Not that I'm trying to sugarcoat the indigenous times. I'm sure there were flaws in the indigenous educational system. However, the aim of the education at that time was to unite the people. It was to unite the people, the curriculum, their environment, their history, their culture, their norms, their people, their neighbors. So I think now we need to reframe our education to ensure that it's not just teaching our youth or teaching anybody in class the cognitive, the ABCs, but to help people understand how that ABC is going to transform their lives and how they can use that ABC as a skill to better understand not only themselves, but also their environment and those that make up their environment. I think for me, education is a core. And to add to what Dr. Alex is saying, if the education. I know. So maybe our politicians are afraid that maybe there's going to be some sort of rebound if the history of civil war is taught. But I think that knowledge is important in healing the wounds, as he said. Not only in healing the wounds, but also helping us to better understand who we are and also how we can relate to ourselves as Nigerians. Also to be able to relate to our environment which God has given to us as Nigeria. Thank you.
- [48:46]
B
All right. Thank you very much, Dr. Arlette and Dr. Arita. Dear listeners, I hope you have followed every bit of the discussion so far. Doctors Alex and Arita have given us a glimpse of purple modern Nigeria. You can access the book through the Bloomsbury outlets and other outlets of your choice. Thank you, doctors Arika and Alex. I hope to see you again.
- [49:10]
D
Thank you, Dr. Miriam, for this opportunity and for providing this platform for us to discuss this very important book. Thank you indeed.
- [49:18]
C
Thank you very much. We appreciate the time spent and we wish our listeners all the best.
- [49:25]
B
All right.